A Serious Glut In Florida
The Miami Herald reports from Florida. “Since 2005, home buyers in Miami-Dade and Broward counties have signed so-called ‘exotic’ mortgages at twice the rate of borrowers in the rest of the country. Roughly one in five mortgages written in Miami-Dade and Broward counties between 2005 and July 2007 fell into one of those categories, according to data from McDash Analytics.”
“Tim Kingcade is a Miami bankruptcy and foreclosure attorney whose practice is booming lately. One of his clients, he said, is a pizza deliverer living in a Brickell condo who came to him only after getting a notice that his mortgage payment was about to jump more than $2,000 a month.”
“‘The uglier the mortgage, the more abusive the terms are to the customer, the more money the banks make on the secondary market,’ Kingcade said.”
“Joel Aresty, another Miami attorney, said he has had a ‘parade’ of people streaming into his office in recent months with devastating mortgage problems. ‘It’s all the same story,’ Aresty said. ‘The broker told them to lie about their income’ to qualify for bigger loans, often for four or five properties. ‘The brokers told them nobody would check,’ he said.”
“Many lenders offered ’stated income’ loans. The people who took those loans ‘will lose the properties, they’ll lose their credit, but the real losers will be the financial institutions,’ Aresty said. ‘I don’t think there’s any way out. There’s going to be a huge shakeout, down to the very foundation of the financial system.’”
“Randall Whitney, a Sunny Isles Beach mortgage banker who makes his living selling exotic mortgages, said business has crashed with the concerns about the credit market and the downturn in home sales. ‘This industry is like the airlines after 9/11,’ Whitney said.”
“Whitney blames other lenders who sold the products to unsophisticated borrowers for the loss of faith. But in the right hands, Whitney said, the option ARM is a great tool. ‘I applaud it,’ he said. ‘I put my own mother into it, literally. Most of the brokers who sell it have one themselves.’”
The Ann Arbor News. “For a deposit of $5, Sharon Gray said, she became a member of Ann Arbor-based Huron River Area Credit Union. In fact, Gray has never set foot in Michigan. She lives and works in Oklahoma.”
“Gray said she was encouraged to join Huron River to obtain a construction loan for an investment home in Florida through a real estate education group, Millionaire University. It, along with Huron River and Howell-based The Construction Loan Co. Inc., is now the target of a lawsuit alleging fraud.”
“The suit alleges the defendants intended to sell the properties, most in Lehigh Acres, near Fort Myers in Lee County - at ‘inflated prices with excessive fees and commissions paid to the various defendants.’”
“‘I couldn’t function and I didn’t sleep for days,’ Gray said of learning she and her husband owed at least $35,809 on a $208,800 Florida home she said they were told wouldn’t cost more than the $1,995 they put down at the beginning. ‘I said, ‘my God, I don’t have that kind of money.’”
“As the housing market in that part of Florida deflated, the value of such newly constructed homes did too. In some cases, homes are likely worth less than the construction loans taken out to build them, and some buyers are refusing to close, like Gray.”
The Palm Beach Post. “In a sign of the times, Seacoast National Bank has sued to foreclose on downtown West Palm Beach properties once slated for condos.”
“The Stuart-based bank claims The Leap Group and principal Rodolfo Gonzalez owe $4.5 million on two loans. Gonzalez had planned to build Skyline Lofts, 103 condos on two blocks along Sapodilla Avenue. But Gonzalez couldn’t make the deals work as the market crumbled.”
“‘I’m not surprised,’ banker Russell Greene said of the foreclosure action. He believes it is among the first commercial foreclosures in downtown West Palm Beach. Expect more as developers have trouble unloading properties and paying bank loans, said Greene.”
“The Eden condo is in limbo and so are the souls who own units in this unfinished condo conversion.”
“Things could get worse: If developer Ceebraid-Signal Corp. doesn’t get control of this Boca Raton property, the complex could wind up in bankruptcy court. That’s according to Roy Dickson, the project’s incoming white knight.”
“Dickson is telling Eden homeowners they better go along with a plan to remake Eden into an adults-only, independent living community of apartments. If they don’t, Dickson warned Eden could be placed into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection by Ceebraid, sources say.”
“You think Eden is a nightmare now? Just wait! After finishing only one of four buildings, Ceebraid-Signal has given up on plans to turn the apartment complex on Palmetto Park Road into a luxury condo. To the chagrin of folks living there, Eden is a messy construction site.”
“Some people don’t want to sell. Either they don’t want to move or they think Ceebraid is not offering enough money. Ceebraid is willing to pay condo owners only the price they paid for their units.”
“Unfortunately, holding out might not be a smart play. Bankruptcy court will ensure the unfinished buildings remain that way for years, meaning current Eden condo owners will be stuck, with slim chance of reselling their units.”
The Times Union. “The Jacksonville area had the 21st highest rate of foreclosures among 100 major cities in the first half of 2007, according to Realty Trac. Jacksonville Area Legal Aid doesn’t have enough lawyers to take on all applicants as clients. In the past 10 months, the law firm has fielded 267 requests for representation and agreed to add 100 clients.”
“Dawn Lockhart, president of Family Foundation, said lenders are willing to negotiate, within limits, because it costs them big bucks to repossess foreclosed homes. ‘What we can’t do is miracles,’ she said. ‘If the consumer can’t afford the loan, there’s nothing we can do.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “Central Florida’s bloated housing inventory is ‘a problem, any way you look at it,’ according to one of the state’s leading independent housing analysts.”
“More homes are available, and more are coming out of the ground, than the market can absorb, says Anthony Crocco, director for Central Florida and North Florida for MetroStudy.”
“Crocco, one of MetroStudy’s top Florida housing specialists, said both new-and-existing home inventory is too large to allow all the homes to be sold within a historically reasonable time frame.”
“The East Pasco Association of Realtors reports that in August its members had 13.8 months of unsold inventory. It reported the average days-on-market as was 120 days, reflective of a serious glut.”
“‘It’s bad everywhere,’ Crocco said. But many builders, he said, ‘are still building.’”
“Most county code-enforcement departments report an increase in unkempt yards this year. Through August, code inspectors issued 55 percent more citations for overgrown lawns in unincorporated Osceola, 72 percent more in Volusia, 200 percent more in Lake and about 15 percent more in Orange, compared with the same period last year.”
“Anecdotally, inspectors report they are handling more cases of abandoned and neglected foreclosed houses. ‘When a person’s about to lose a piece of property, the last thing they’re going to worry about is mowing the lawn,’ said Carol Kerrigan, Volusia code-enforcement manager.”
“Inspectors are finding overgrown lawns in lots of middle- and upper-income neighborhoods where they wouldn’t expect them. Walter Krujaick, Osceola building- and code-enforcement director, recently discovered several in one normally tidy subdivision off West U.S. Highway 192.”
“‘I was shocked when I saw them,’ Krujaick said. ‘The grass was up to my hips.’”
“Apopka engineer Wayne Mather and two neighbors periodically take turns mowing the grass and hacking the weeds at the vacant house on their street. The owner, who lives in Orlando, stopped paying her $239,000 mortgage in January, according to court records.”
“‘It devalues the neighborhood, and there’s a lot of people trying to sell their homes in this neighborhood,’ said Mather. ‘We’re trying to keep the neighborhood nice.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Wagner Realty is planning to hold a red tag sale this weekend that will give buyers a 10 percent discount on the list price of certain homes and condos in Sarasota and Manatee counties.”
“‘It’s something I picked up from car dealers,’ said David Eckel, Wagner’s president. ‘We’re going to our sellers and getting them to reduce prices by 10 percent on Oct. 13 and 14.’”
“‘We’ll see if this generates some traffic,’ said Wagner agent Polly Gaar. ‘If it generates some traffic, it might result in some offers. At least it gets people moving.’”
“Terri Elmy, Don Cantin and Larry Tenbusch have one thing in common: They chose to be tortoises rather than hares when it came to expanding their businesses during the recent real estate boom.”
“All three North Port home builders say they were freaked out by the number of investors who came by their sales offices in 2004 and 2005 with requests to sign multiple building contracts.”
“‘We’d had investors come in — arrogant as all get-out — and they would want to know how much it would cost for us to build five homes for them,’ Cantin said. ‘They would expect us to buy the land, and we were supposed to take their word for it that they would be there at the closing.’”
“Now these three builders are not sitting on scores of unsold homes like many of their competitors. What’s more, they are not hemorrhaging from the amount of interest they have to pay to banks for borrowed funds.”
“‘I’m real cautious about letting things get away from me,’ Tenbusch said. ‘I’m the tortoise rather than the hare. I don’t owe anything to anybody, and that’s what is going to carry me through.’”
“Elmy says she will have an advantage over other builders in North Port because she bought building lots when they were still selling for $2,500 each back in the 1990s.”
“‘I have 45 lots left,’ Elmy said. ‘I chose to take them off the market during the boom because I felt they would help sustain us in a downturn. We’re able to reduce our prices more than other builders and still make a profit.’”
‘DEAR BOB: I have a negative-amortization mortgage on a new house in Naples, Fla. It is now worth $140,000 less than when I bought it in January 2006. I am losing about $23,400 each year and will have to take out a $60,000 second mortgage to sell or refinance. Should I stop making mortgage payments and allow a foreclosure to occur? I feel that is my only choice. –Susie T.’
‘DEAR SUSIE: As you knew when you obtained that “negative am” mortgage, you had a very low monthly payment. The unpaid interest portion of each payment was added to your mortgage balance. The result is you owe more than you originally borrowed.’
‘Just because a property has lost market value after purchase doesn’t mean its owner should walk away. When you bought the property you could afford the payments. That hasn’t changed.’
‘Keep making the mortgage payments as you agreed to do. If you default and stop making payments, your credit will be ruined and you will lose the property by foreclosure in a highly desirable city.’
DEAR BOB: Yes, but how am I supposed to flip this one? I saw it on a TV show and thought I would try it. I am so glad that you consider my city so desirable. Can I interest you in an overpriced POS house?!!!
No. He’s dead. LOL
Dear Susie: Where is the $60K going to come from when the house does not have the equity? And why throw good money after bad…here is what you do..like my friend is doing..find another property, use 40K of the 60K that someone is stupid enough to give you…buy a home the heck out of Florida..than give the other one back..and you will have 20K in the bank to get you started on a new lease in life(I have a friend doing that right now with a home equity line. Closing on a property half of what she spent on the previous property and she is giving the other house back in a couple of months on the advice of a attorney.) Whatever….
the bank will lien the new house too - verdad?
Not if you put it in someone else’s name..give it to the attorneys…
My wife’s old firm absolutly *LOVEs* attorneys like that…
Probably not, especially if it’s out of Florida. They would first have to get a deficiency judgt, which they almost never do (I’m a real estate lawyer), then they have to figure out where you are, then they have to domesticate the judgt in the state where you are, then they have to try to collect. All this is extremely unlucky, whereas using your $60 thou is a certain loss. They have so many problems, it’s unlikely that they will fixate on you. And even if they do, keep $10,000 and then offer to settle. By that time the idea that some money is better than no money will have sunk in to even the stupidest banker.
What are the recourse laws in Florida? If Susie could really do a 60K cash-out refinance and then do jingle mail on a house she no longers cares about, then everyone would be doing it. Subprime credit is a small price to pay to get your hands on that amount of cash-money. Surely, the banks could come after her for everything she’s got.(?)*
—-
*And I wonder how many foreigners have done this. Take the cash-money and flee back to Mexico or Pakistan or Russia or China, where nobody has ever heard of Experian, and where no little bank will ever be able to find you collect.
I’m betting Susie’s Naples house is an “investment” that she bought with the intent to flip it. I don’t think the non-recourse escape hatch applies to investment properties. Or does it?
I’m referring to her second mortgage — the 60K which wasn’t part of the original mortgage. I think HELOC’s and equity extractions are all recourse. (?)
Maybe that’s why everyone is hanging on trying to sell instead of doing jingle mail. If they are HELOC cash-out refi’s, then walking would do no good. Banks would get not only the house, but everything else they have too.
I knew someone who did this in the early 90’s - they purchased a condo and then defaulted on the house load
Dear Susie, You should absolutely walk away from this house. Remember, life is all about your comfort and having fun. Just because you promised you would pay back money you borrowed doesn’t mean you should if it is no longer enjoyable or seems to be in your best interests. Same concept with having kids or pets, if they begin to become an effort to take care of then they should be abandoned at the nearest McDonalds. Don’t bother with trying to discipline them or teach them right from wrong, it doesn’t add anything to the fun meter for you!
Remember, it’s the lender’s fault for your property or income not meeting your expectations and therefore you need not feel guilty for taking this action. Good luck and may the rest of your life be fun and stress free!
Ain’t that the truth. All personal responsibility out the window. Reminds me of friends of one of our kids — divorcing because they fell out of love — but after having two children. “For as long as we both find it convenient…”
Actually, “for as long as the sheets remain warm….”
Makes you wonder why they bother, except that if they didn’t, Daddy wouldn’t pay for a big wedding and 3 weeks in Tahiti.
Plus the wife can get alimony….can’t do that if ya just live together & reproduce.
Dear Susie,
In Florida, we’re operating in a totally new economic system where prices will increase indefinitely. The current situation is a minor blip on the road to riches. Have you read David Lereah’s books? If not I highly suggest them as they are full of accurate and thought-provoking information. So hang in there kiddo! In fact, I think you should buy a couple more properties. I just happen to have this great waterfront condo that I’ve got list BELOW MARKET VALUE. But if you buy it at above market, then I’ll kick back some of the money to you so you can stay afloat before the real estate rocket really gets going. And don’t worry, I’ve researched all of this.
When you bought the property you could afford the payments. That hasn’t changed.
It hasn’t? Gosh, I don’t want to rip on poor Bob (RIP, this was his last column before he passed away last month), but that HAS changed. I suspect Susie hit either her time limit or her neg-am limit and the full amort kicked in. There’s no other reason for her to write in.
‘Keep making the mortgage payments as you agreed to do. If you default and stop making payments, your credit will be ruined and you will lose the property by foreclosure in a highly desirable city.’
Is Naples still desireable when everyone and their brother is trying to sell and get out?
I was there last week. Seemed pretty quiet, though I don’t know how that relates to snowbird volume. I would hate to be there when a big storm comes through.
I’ve never told anybody else this, except one guy years ago who
was defrauded by being sold the wrong house, but yeah, you should probably walk away from this.
Yeah, you promised, yeah, your credit will be ruined, but the West coast of Florida is even deader that the east coast, and likely to stay that way for a long, long time.
Unless you lied on your mtg. application? Then staying out of jail is a good reason to pay.
Sooner or later, your credit will recover. You may never recover the black hole of this money sink. I rather think that in a few years creditors will be more tolerant of people who got caught up in this mess (partly caused by careless lenders), same as they
are willing to lend after bankruptcy.
If you think that people shouldn’t welch on their promises, keep making the payments. You may attain a higher rank in heaven, but you aren’t gonna benefit on this earth.
The $hip of Fools, fully A.R.M.’d
“Whitney blames other lenders who sold the products to unsophisticated borrowers for the loss of faith. But in the right hands, Whitney said, the option ARM is a great tool. ‘I applaud it,’ he said. ‘I put my own mother into it, literally. Most of the brokers who sell it have one themselves.’”
Adam & Eve will have to leave…
“The Eden condo is in limbo and so are the souls who own units in this unfinished condo conversion.”
(The people who took those loans ‘will lose the properties, they’ll lose their credit, but the real losers will be the financial institutions.’)
If they are still holding the mortgages. We still don’t know who the biggest losers will be. Pension funds? Taxpayers, due to losses in public employee pension funds? Overseas investors? Hedge fund investors? Insurance companies — or their customers? 401K investors?
Contestant: Alex; Housing Bubble for $2000.
Alex: “If they are still holding the mortgages. We still don’t know who the biggest losers will be. Pension funds? Taxpayers, due to losses in public employee pension funds? Overseas investors? Hedge fund investors? Insurance companies — or their customers? 401K investors?”
Contestant: What is all of the above?
Taxpayers, definitly
When I read compilations like the above, the first thought is that, boy am I glad I’m in a nice, boringly-vanilla stage of my investment adventures. ( CD’s, conservative stock-market funds, only 1 percent of our retirement in a REIT, a paid-for house, and money markets). Secondly, boy am I glad I’m not into styling myself as a big-time real estate investor. Right now, in my opinion, it’s far more economically profitable to stay at home, go for walks, and play Pogo than invest in most “investments”. My old sofa set may be old, but it’s not causing me to hemorrhage interest payments. We sold 2 out of 4 buildings that we had in 2004, and have absolutely no regrets. Michigan is at the bottom of the economic sinkhole right now, but the rest of the country is rapidly following….
Ah, but look at the bright side…starting today we in Michigan have the privilege of paying more income taxes to our wonderful state govmint which nearly shut down recently. Ain’t life grand??
I am wondering though how they’re going to enforce the 6 percent sales tax on house sitting…..
Yet another reason to leave Michigan. (I did so, for good, in the early 1980s. Haven’t looked back.)
My day’s coming, Slim.
You heading to AA anytime soon??
Yes, our wonderful new tax increases just make us look forward to moving outstate in a few more years. My employer offers lifetime health insurance if I stay for another 7 years so we’re staying put for that; then it’s call the moving truck and another economically-sound couple will vanish from the state for good. My husband already has lifetime health ins. thru the state so I’m the only one we have to worry about covering.
Where you be in da Wolverine State??
Between Metro Airport & Ann Arbor LOL
My home and family are still in South Lyon, Michigan….. I am in Salinas, Ca to work, also found there are some good tax advantages to be working from your primary home.
Michigan is DOA with the gov’ment and work.
It could have been worse. They could have raised the income tax rate back to what it was during the Engler era.
Idiot Savant Homebuilders, Incorporated
They wouldn’t know what else to do with their time, if they weren’t building houses nobody wants…
“‘It’s bad everywhere,’ Crocco said. But many builders, he said, ‘are still building.’”
Housing auction in Florida. I believe some of these are Fannie Mae. Any takers?
http://www.hudsonandmarshall.com/auctionInfo.asp?auctionName=Over+400+Homes+throughout+Florida%21%21&auctionID=371
I’ve kept an eye on one of those properties — Was listed for $149,900 in mid-September vs. $139,900 today. Looks like a foreclosure that occurred in June. At the 2005 peak, units in the subdivision were selling in the very low $200s.
Foreclosure in June and auction in October… would probably be good for all of us if everywhere worked that fast.
IL if officially at around 7 months. Just today I saw one go in (more or less) that time frame. Before now I was looking at histories and noticing it could take up to two years.
Palmetto — in the Orlando batch, most of the properties are in Kissimmee. Many, many in “Universal Resort.”
The winner:
504 Albatross Drive
‘The broker told them to lie about their income’ to qualify for bigger loans, often for four or five properties. ‘The brokers told them nobody would check,’ he said.”
And as my parents used to say when I wuz a pup, “If Johnnie Smith told you to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it?”
This is true, nobody did check on their income, however they will check to see if the borrower was sending in that mortgage check every month.
“Now these three builders are not sitting on scores of unsold homes like many of their competitors. What’s more, they are not hemorrhaging from the amount of interest they have to pay to banks for borrowed funds.”
“‘I’m real cautious about letting things get away from me,’ Tenbusch said. ‘I’m the tortoise rather than the hare. I don’t owe anything to anybody, and that’s what is going to carry me through.’”
“Elmy says she will have an advantage over other builders in North Port because she bought building lots when they were still selling for $2,500 each back in the 1990s.”
“‘I have 45 lots left,’ Elmy said. ‘I chose to take them off the market during the boom because I felt they would help sustain us in a downturn. We’re able to reduce our prices more than other builders and still make a profit.’”
Gee, what a novel idea. Using your head. Smart moves, good strategy. However, I’ll bet if you look closer, these guys have seen this all before and were smart enough to recognize it for what it was.
I’m almost 60 and have seen all this before in So. Cal, the NE and Florida. If I had been 22 during this bubble, I probably would own 20 houses in foreclosure and have my own website like Casy Serin.
Nothing like age and experience!
What I thought I knew at 25, wasn’t much in retrospect.
It’s refreshing to read a post about builders who are motivated by something other than pure unadulterated greed.
The no debt guy sounds like a Dave Ramsey fan. Better than he deserves.
Given the degree of overbuilding, it may yet transpire that Elmy has made a bad financial decision here (albeit not one that’s going to break her). It would have been better to have sold off the lots at peak prices.
On the other hand, she’s going to be the Specuflipper’s worst nightmare going forward.
The peak was difficult to call. Even with as many houses I have flipped, I stopped to soon. I called the peak to soon and was astounded by where prices finally went.
I also predicted that prices would bottom in summer of 2007. Wrong again.
My guess is that Elmy had the same issue. I agree though, she should have sold. In 12 months or “when we bottom”, those same lots will probably be selling for close to $2,500. Even if they are $5,000, it will be of no real advantage to her.
I’ve seen lots in the outer regions of Orlando that sold for $2,500 in the 90’s, selling for 30 to 40K at the peak. Today, these lots aren’t selling at any price. Look at the map. Central Florida is in no danger of running out of land. Also, those that bought at these prices are either holding them or defaulting, depending on their situation, hoping to see their 40k, “when things turn around”. I won’t live long enough to see 40K come back.
Elmy has 45 properties “left,” which leads me to think she did sell at least a few at peak. She probably owns them outright, and has enough cash to hold until the next bubble.
Decent brains and a suspicious nature are maybe even better.
Hey! I’m in my 20’s and I saw this bubble for what it was! But then, I took AP Econ. in high school, and that was enough to teach me what happens when prices far exceed incomes and fundamentals, supply explodes and demand dries up…don’t need a PhD to figure that out. I just invested some of my savings in antiques. Better than real estate, and I can enjoy them in my rental house.
The rest of my money is in conservative investments that will hopefully be around in a few decades when it’s time to retire.
Don’t worry, you’ll get older and wiser.
Good for you! Stay conservative, look at things long term. You are wise beyond your years.
I’m still sure that in my 20’s my youthful exuberance and aggression would have made me a major FB.
AP Econ classes in high school… I applaud you taking the class as much as I do the school for offering it. We don’t see nearly enough finance taught in K-12 schools.
Good for you, too bad many of my fellow 40 year-olds were not as astute as you. Take care.
time for a loser pay/ judge inquisitor legal system
1 year hard labor if you lie about the signatures
Loser pays legal system — the one thing the British got right. Booyah.
“Some people don’t want to sell. Either they don’t want to move or they think Ceebraid is not offering enough money. Ceebraid is willing to pay condo owners only the price they paid for their units.”
Aw, fer cryin’ out loud, people, get clue!!!!! Take the dang money and run!! Lordy, think of the all the people in Florida who would jump at the chance to at least get back what they paid.
Ceebraid is willing to pay condo owners only the price they paid for their units.
Yeah, incredible, isn’t it? Don’t they know how many other people in Florida would JUMP at the chance to sell for what they bought for? Greedy, greedy! And they’re gonna get burned for it. Good.
Ain’t that the truth!!! Stupidity still exists and mixed with greed it’s deadly.
Take… the… Money!
That’s what I was thinking! If I were those people, I’d take the money and run. It seems quite obvious what will happen to those who try to ride it out. Plus, who wants to live in a construction site? When my apt. went condo, they had Mexicans scaling the walls like acrobats replacing rotten stucco, and I’d open my blinds in the morning and see Juan and Jose staring back. Yikes.
“But some people don’t want to sell. Either they don’t want to move or they think Ceebraid is not offering enough money. Ceebraid is willing to pay condo owners only the price they paid for their units.
Unfortunately, holding out might not be a smart play. Bankruptcy court will ensure the unfinished buildings remain that way for years, meaning current Eden condo owners will be stuck, with slim chance of reselling their units.”
These owners are getting a “get of jail free” card and not taking it? I would jump at the offer - talk about head in the sand. The evidence is literally outside their front door.
Willful neglect can only devastate the comps, in every neighborhood so effected…
“‘It devalues the neighborhood, and there’s a lot of people trying to sell their homes in this neighborhood,’ said Mather. ‘We’re trying to keep the neighborhood nice.’”
“Elmy says she will have an advantage over other builders in North Port because she bought building lots when they were still selling for $2,500 each back in the 1990s.”
This is something future home buyers will need to be watchful about. My parents had a home up in Greenwich, Ct. Across the street was a church cemetary, or so they thought. Part of the land turned out to be owned by an investor who had gotten all his permits grandfathered in during the 1970s. And then he just let it sit. All of a sudden, he started building a subdivision in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Nothing anyone could do about it and he wasn’t subject to more recent restrictions.
And don’t take any assurances from the planning and zoning departments, either. When we first moved to Hillsborough County and looked at one home, we saw an undeveloped area close by and wanted to know what the long term plans were for the area. I was assured by a planning and zoning guy for the area that they “planned to keep it rural in nature”. BWAHAHAHAHA! Today it is jammed with development. Glad we never bought that place.
Back then (2000) the lying crap the planning and zoning departments gave out was that “We don’t want to turn South Hillsborough into Brandon”, Brandon being the poster child area for bad development. And what did they do? Turn the rest of South Hillsborough County into Brandon! (Bitter LMAO!)
Don’t even get me started on that issue! Gosh, it makes me wild with rage. Washington state has one of the most liberal vesting laws in the nation. You can have absolutely horrifying stuff built even decades after grandfathering the application–and as you say, without current restrictions, such as access roads that make sense, more limited number of residences, all that stuff designed to make a community better. Nope. Don’t have to do it, ’cause they’re vested.
Sounds like ” Rainbow Park” here in Marion County and a lot more Developments here in Central Florida.
Rainbow Park was ” Vested in the 60’s. Lots in 02 were worth about 600 Bucks. Lime Rock Roads and no drainage. They Started building new houses and People bought lots on ebay for 30 and 40 k.
Now the County Has put a Moratorium on construction because they need new roads and the place is flooding.
The sad part is these ” Investors ” are trying to bail and still trying to sell to “out of state suckers” these wortless lots and not mentioning that they can’t be built on now.
Also the county is saying all the property owners now will have to pay for New Roads and Drainage. Cost around 16k per lot.
People should be arrested for this crap. Soon though ,maybe People will finally get smart and quit falling for the ” Great Florida Land Scams” .
in WAPO a couple was the only bidder at a reserve auction- wow, wouldn’t alarm bells be going off in you head !
I reported on an unkempt, rat-filled foreclosure in my Tampa Bay neighborhood. Now, there’s a sign from the county on the lawn threatening to mow the lawn and remove the debris at the owner’s (bank’s?) expense.
Good on ya.
i recommend Rent-a-Goat .. fast, efficient and uses no chemicals. The sticky residue quickly breaks down into a fine fertilizer..
-both new-and-existing home inventory is too large to allow all the homes to be sold within a historically reasonable time frame.”
‘Historically reasonable’ will bcome a byword. History is being made each new day as we move forward.
No reference can be made to the past because there was not the large amount of buyers with no money down.
They say that the present employment levels ‘make it different’ this time …these are service industry jobs.
maybe you can use the roaring 20’s as a reference
Yo, genius of marketing
Been following car sales, as of late?
“‘It’s something I picked up from car dealers,’ said David Eckel, Wagner’s president. ‘We’re going to our sellers and getting them to reduce prices by 10 percent on Oct. 13 and 14.’”
Further proof the realtors are no different than skanky used cars salesmen.
Hopefully he has picked up some more selling points from used car dealers because he may be selling cars full-time pretty soon. I actually have a lot more respect for used car salesman these days……
“Gray said she was encouraged to join Huron River to obtain a construction loan for an investment home in Florida through a real estate education group, Millionaire University.
I saw a Three Stooges episode once where Shemp enrolled at Millionaire U. But he never graduated.
Millionaire University. How could someone fall for such a name?
That’s as bad as Nouveau Riche University.
You should see the sleazy operation run by one of my husband’s trademark clients. Their latest scam is flipping trailers and mobile homes. I kid you not. I insisted on full payment up front so we got ours but yeech, I don’t even want to talk to these people.
Oh lord. A quick look at sites like MobileWealth.com gave me a good scare. Oh, good, relief: my wallet is still in my pocket.
I’ll tell you this, though, there is (or was?) good money to be made buying and renting trailers. A family friend of mine made good, good money doing that.
He owned a trailer park, unpretentiously named “[town-name] Trailer Park”, and inevitably he’d have tenants there who wanted to move on to a house (or just unload their trailer fast for whatever reason, like, uh, jail), and he’d buy the trailers dirt cheap in some cases. Then he’d rent the trailers out.
The main business tools he needed, though, were his four big, bruiser sons to make sure the rent got collected. That was the part that would discourage most people because in that refinery town it certainly wasn’t the most savory clientele he dealt with.
As I note below, I’ve done something similar in the past and would like to do again. Would also like to own a park. Done properly and ethically, one can do quite well with them. You just have to have a landlord mindset and be tough with the rules, as your market can be rather migratory and as you say, not always the most savory (though I have met a lot of really nice folks in MH parks).
There is a lot of money to be made in Mobile homes. Not as a dealer, but set up on a lot, sell or rent.
Now, you can buy Repo’s for nothing, i.e $2500 for a 2004 single wide, 3br, 2 bath. Hell, it cost more to transport it and set it up, but the upshot is you can have a sale-able home on a lot for under 20k. Put it up for 39K to 49K, with lease option and you might get lucky and get to repo and sell it 2 or 3 times.
Getting it financed can be a problem, so just be sure you line up your financing before you start buying lots and setting them up. Most banks will finance the buyer under the right circunstances. Make sure you understand their requirements.
It’s an excellant way to make a buck. Been there done that and looking forward to doing it again.
I’d also love to own a Mobile Home Park or two, or several.
Darth,
As I say above, I hope to do that again myself. I have a friend in North Carolina that does exactly that and has for a number of years. He moved from parks to doing mobile/land deals. It’s been harder for him to find deals lately he says ’cause of all the investor wannabees swooping in and catching what will be falling knives. So he justs sits back and stays patient.
I have an open invitation to join him there, which I would in an instant if I didn’t have teenagers here. Will just have to be patient. ‘Til then, like you, would love to own a few parks and do them deals again.
TX,
I’m just curious as to what part of their operation is a scam. I’ve bought, fixed up and sold MH’s and held the note in the past and while the dollar amounts weren’t huge, the ROI was nice and everything was above board. To me full disclosure is a good CYA move. I’d even like to do it again someday.
Is there anything illegal going on, or are they just doing with MH’s what’s been going on with houses?? Thanks in advance.
Selling shares or syndications in this kind of operation. Seminars on how to do it and get funny money financing.
Gotcha. I would agree with that assessment, since neither operation is needed or necessary for one to do well in that line of work (and done properly, it IS work). The funny money financing should be a big red flag.
“I don’t even want to talk to these people. ”
But you will take their money. Ethics in America. LOL
Yes, I’ll take their money - to provide intellectual property legal services at their request and nothing more.
“Tim Kingcade is a Miami bankruptcy and foreclosure attorney whose practice is booming lately. One of his clients, he said, is a pizza deliverer living in a Brickell condo who came to him only after getting a notice that his mortgage payment was about to jump more than $2,000 a month.”
Pizza delivery guy “owns” a condo?
Only in America
“Pizza delivery guy “owns” a condo?”
See here, now, if a strawberry picker in CA can own a $700,000 home, surely you don’t begrudge a pizza delivery guy a condo in Miami?
my bad.
My maid just lost her $500K house to foreclosure in Miramar. I couldn’t believe it. She is happy not to pay $3K per month and rented a house for $1K.
The fraud, ignorance and stupidity emanating from the Ann Arbor News article is just mind-boggling. I spend almost as much time shaking my head on this site as I do laughing.
“‘I was shocked when I saw them,’ Krujaick said. ‘The grass was up to my hips.’”
Not as shocked as my buddy as I posted last night in the California thread. I’m surprised the county didn’t send him a note. Although a tenant lived at the home, it looked abandoned.
I know every last one of you that rents on here, is a model citizen and some of you might be as nice as to install an in-ground pool, to show your gratitude to your landlord…
You are all the exceptions to the rule
Is that the guy who got a divorce and was going bankrupt anyway?
No.
That was a great story. Please update when able!
It’s going to cost a minimum of 2K in repairs to get the rental back on the market not including the cost of it staying unoccupied.
What’s more, he still hasn’t figured out the property is worth 50K less than he paid. Specu-lording is no picnic.
The safest response in situations like these is, “Oh, my! I can’t believe it!” It’s difficult to talk people out of their dreams.
First time I rented out a house, the tenants were responsible for yard care. Worked OK for the first tenant but was a disaster with the second two. Next time, when we talked about renting out a house (but ended up selling), we planned to include yard care. The cost of ruined nice landscaping would have been much higher than paying a yard service.
“‘The uglier the mortgage, the more abusive the terms are to the customer, the more money the banks make on the secondary market,’
Creepy
the more pitch the lawyer has in the victim parade
how about 5 years fed time for lying
then we’ll see how many “victims” there were
The uglier the mortgage broker, the better he does- also applies, as is the case with Angelo Mozzilo.
‘The broker told them to lie about their income’ to qualify for bigger loans, often for four or five properties. ‘The brokers told them nobody would check,’ he said.”
“Many lenders offered ’stated income’ loans. The people who took those loans ‘will lose the properties, they’ll lose their credit, but the real losers will be the financial institutions,’
Let’s see if I got this right.
1. “Nobody (the finacial institutions that loaned the money) would check. ……
2. The real losers will be the financial institutions.
Now I see. They were sort of asking for it.
As long as the government doesn’t see all these players in the real estate game as the true reckless, fraudulent ,gambling ,
speculators that they were ,justice will not prevail .Passing the buck on to the taxpapers is the most unfair idea I have ever heard of regarding the housing bubble .
I guess we are suppose to give a pass to builders that built stupid projects with no real demand other than short term flippers .
Back in the days when money availability was based on local deposits, at least it was a check and balance on over lending for an area .Now ,factor in global money supply ,interest rates being kept to low for to long ,as well as fraudulent easy money low down loans, and you got the most absurd false run up bubble in real estate history . Money was just being thrown around like toilet paper.
All the commissioned salespeople had the same talking points of ,’Buy now ,refinance or sell or flip later when real estate goes up .” It’s amazing how many borrowers were willing to commit fraud on their loan applications ,but the cheerleaders urged them on with their myths .
When you watch the business new programs, its easy to see why this false RE market wasn’t challenged by the business cheerleaders .As long as the cheerleaders can tranfer the bubble to the stock market with the same talking points like ,”global markets are good “,buyers will keep buying ,even with bad news coming out daily about the underbelly of loss still not accounted for in the housing market .
Curt — I hope, hope, hope the financial institutions eat the losses, but WT Economist, above could be right — that the lenders flogged off the debt to hapless pension funds and the like. I wish there were a way for there to be recourse against the lenders, for flogging paper that was the equivalent of a house over an undisclosed sinkhole. I also wish there were some recourse to go after the mortgage brokers, if only for the fees they collected on the rotten loans.
Probably should have used “greedy, careless” instead of “hapless.”
Palmy, you’re full of good advice today. You can find trustworthy sources on planning and zoning depts, but that takes some effort, or become buddies with planning commissioners, or become one yourself, and so forth, just to keep an eye on things in general and get a heads up when applications come in, you can do things, sure, but man–the money talks so loud, and trees and frogs don’t have any.
It’s pretty discouraging sometimes. But the victories are sweet, even if you don’t get nearly as many as you’d want. Besides, whatcha gonna do, quit fighting? No way. And now look! Ahahahaw! Poor wittle inkums builders and developers, your funny money good time go BOOM!
Oh, dear Lord, the joy!
“Poor wittle inkums builders and developers, your funny money good time go BOOM!”
I think a lot of Floridian homebuyers are getting some very harsh lessons about homebuilders, in addition to how they can devalue your home at the blink of an eye. Not that this is a bad thing in this case, it is necessary. But perhaps in the future it will make people much more cautious about trusting homebuilders, which could put a brake on future bubbles of this nature. One HB in this area was supposed to put in a pool and clubhouse and hasn’t done so as yet. The current owners in the development have complained to the county commission, but not a lot the commission can do about it.
I wonder if there will be a backlash against HOAs? In other words, will traditional houses in traditional subdivisions come back in vogue?
‘will traditional houses in traditional subdivisions come back in vogue?’
I sure hope so.
Palmy — I know of a pre-bubble Orlando neighborhood where the developer “promised” to build a clubhouse and common-access ramp on the lot that was lakefront. The mistake that I believe the buyers made was in buying before the clubhouse was built. Of course, the subdivision was built out and then the developer sold the lot to an individual to build on. What amazes me is that no one got it in writing, crystal clear. It used to be that I thought the use of real estate attorneys generally was a waste of time and money. Not any more.
As time gives us more perspective we’re going to start looking at homebuilder behavior the same way we cringe when we see pictures of sharpies from the 80s, as captured in old advertisements, TV and movies.
They were basically a bunch of George Costanzas with money, doing their best Edward G. Robinson impersonations. “Yaah, ya’ choose to rent see, so yer getting evicted see, so get in now buddy or stay where you are on the totem pole, got it buster? Now get outta’ here before I have Sammy throw you out.”
Uneducated, phony tough guys who thought they were getting over for once in their sad lives. And more than happy to kick the losers in the face.
“…perhaps in the future it will make people much more cautious about trusting homebuilders…”
If “in the future” you mean the next 5 years, I think you’re right. If you mean the next real estate cycle, not likely. There’s a reason the cycle lasts around 15 years - it takes that long to breed a next generation of suckers. All you can do is educate yourself and family/friends to proffit from a obvious cycle.
I was actually shocked at the builder held onto properties at the upturn to save them for a leaner time.
It’s very rare to see that sort of foresight. Kudos to them.
Dow and Nasdaq stock markets have a really funny pattern this morning. Very wavy with a sudden drop. How low will it go?
Got popcorn?
Neil
Below 14,000, I hope.
Not yet.
Its doing a bunch of bouncing… drop type of pattern.
So you’ll have to wait until noon East Coast time.
Got popcorn?
Neil
I’m waiting for Oct. 15th. Hoping for a Schadenfreude special.
Even if all my investments go down, the joy will be worth it.
What happens on the 15th?
It looks like the DJIA is supported above 14,020. I would not be in the least bit surprised to see it hold at that level from here on out (with the $US taking the hits as needed to provide support).
Didn’t one of the knowledgeable posters here, a few weeks ago, postulate that the PPT’s short-to-medium-term target is the range of 13,000-13,400?
I’m not in the market and would get slaughtered if I were, but from the sidelines I am amazed at what appears to be such a totally rigged game.
The Ann Arbor News. “For a deposit of $5, Sharon Gray said, she became a member of Ann Arbor-based Huron River Area Credit Union. In fact, Gray has never set foot in Michigan. She lives and works in Oklahoma.”
Norlarco Credit union in Colorado did the same thing. If you joined some kind of charity group ($30 donation or some such) you could get a credit union membership too. They , just like Huron River, then proceeded to allow jerks from who knows where borrow willy nilly for construction projects in Florida of all places. At least most of the morons who approved that stuff have been fired, the feds kicked them out, we’ll see if the CU can survive, though.
“Joel Aresty, another Miami attorney, said he has had a ‘parade’ of people streaming into his office in recent months with devastating mortgage problems. ‘It’s all the same story,’ Aresty said. ‘The broker told them to lie about their income’ to qualify for bigger loans, often for four or five properties. ‘The brokers told them nobody would check,’ he said.”
What a bunch of whining looooooooooosers!
If they made mopney then no complaints!
Throw the trash out in the street and work in chain gangs to payback the loans.
http://www.lehighland.com/video.shtml
LOL!!!!
Here’s a thought.
With all the empty or abandoned properties decaying in places like Florida and California and the builders and the banks holding on to REO’s, coupled with the fact that prices are not dropping that much and only fools and realtorwhores are spouting that the property market is close to bottom and will improve, it makes one ponder the reason why?
At this stage the big builders are not really dumping much via auctions (and most have shills in the audience anyway so prices don’t plummet) and banks are not cutting deadwood REO’s on their books by greatly reduced prices. Something smells bad.
I think there’s a hidden agenda behind the (Big) builders and the banks non-action. How does the words, “Government And Fed VERY BIG BAIL OUT” sound. Underline the words VERY BIG.
We already know that we live in a world where the gamblers and speculators and financial criminals are rewarded by government while the honest, the prudent and the savers are exploited (by government) via taxes, reduced interest on savings and currency de-valuation which helps bail out the perps. Especially that rat hole called Wall Street. So why should this current situation be any different?
I think these big builders and banks and The Financial Gangsters of Wall Street, know that by using some of the many influence peddling politicians in Washington, greasing a few political palms via lobbyists, a bail out could/will be orchestrated if they hang in long enough.
If you add up all the facts, including current ability for the majority to pay for property, 20% deposits on greatly over inflated prices, no more NINJA loans and a full recession possibly in the works (don’t let these “economists” fool you with their “no recession” b.s because we are already in the first stage of a recession) and inflation eating away at a incomes (my own water rate has just increased by 21% and my charting company has increased prices by a 33% and my monthly food bill has doubled in the past 2 years not to mention gas prices) these empty decaying properties are going to create a lot of problems for builders and banks in a very short period of time. Common sense dictates that, like a stock falling in price, one dumps a losing investment before it becomes a BIGGER losing investment but the BIG builders and banks are not really dumping.
Most people would be amazed at just how quickly nature regains ground with overgrowth and how quickly property decays when not maintained. In just a few months - not years. So why are the builders and banks not dumping these properties now, knowing that it IS NOT going to improve?
Maybe because they know if they get in real trouble and cry, “You have to help!” loudly enough, government will bail them out with taxpayer welfare coupled with Bernake printing up more US dollar confetti money, using their usual rhetoric and b.s, “To help the average American family.”
Good post Mike .I agree with you that the gamblers are all betting on a major bail out .
‘all betting on a major bail out . ‘
But I don’t know if they’ll get one. It’s just such a HUGE fookin’ mess. Billions and billions and billions of dollars…and Americans are tapped out. SUV’s in the driveway and moths in the pockets.
SUVs in the driveway and moths in the pockets….
Piss my pants funny. And so true. I think a lot of people are eating Mac n Cheese and hot dogs every night in order to afford to keep up the image of prosperity, and those groceries were put on a 15% credit card.
Personally I won’t think things will seriously change until I see a couple of those Wall Street firms actually go under. As in die and go away, not just be bought out by someone else. Let Bear or Merrill or the like disappear and freak out the rest of them.
Per Blano’s comment,
Things like that do happen (a wall st firm going under). I had a buddy working for Arthur Andersen when it fell in the wake of the Enron collaspe. 2-10 years before that, no one ever thought one of the big 5 could just disappear. Poof. Gone.
Mike might be close, but probably not for a conspiricy theory that everyone is colluding to have the government bail them out. (Sorry Mike, not sure if that is where you had it pegged) Perhaps it is just people hanging on by the fingernails not knowing what comes next.
So what could come next ? Possible scenario…..
Fed lowers rate, inflation comes back, all of a sudden, Presto !! everyone has a $1M house again. Granted, it has to, and might just, stimulate wage inflation so all is well with the world again. Give it 3 years to play out. Inflation’s back, dollar drops, housing drops and levels into fundementals, America is back to being competitive. The ‘big recession’ was cloaked and covered but never did really come. Jobs, albiet lower end jobs, are back and they put food on the table and taxes in the till. (Strange isnt it, on the one hand the media complains about not enough high paying jobs, and on the other complains about jobs going away……cant have both sides of the coin…..)
So maybe, just maybe we eek out of this whole thing again. Not unscathed mind you, but no worse for the wear. After living in Asia for 10+ years now ive come to the conclusion that, we should never count us Americans down and out. A rascaly bunch we are for sure. America has a never-say-die attitudle. The size of a mamoth and the flexibility of a 14 year old gymnist.
Dont even worry about China. They are already toast. Demographics that make italy look like a mother hubbard story and gender disparities beyond Korea’s. Ive been there and seen it.
Sure we have our problems in America….but we also have our American-ness. Sense of duty, pride, fair-play and principles. One never realizes how strong those are until you end up in a void without them.
Everything in America will be just fine. Pain for a few. Kudos for those who rented. Monied folks maying a play for the pie, as they always do. About in the deserved end, people will end up with about what they deserved.
Jasper.
P.S. I sold in SD in late 2003. 2004 and 2005….wow, never saw that one comming……
So why are the builders and banks not dumping these properties now
i notice that properties are still selling.. knifecatchers are far form an extinct species.. i’m sure banks and builders are aware of it. This may be reason enough. It’s just too early in the cycle to commit to booking all losses and bail out on everything..
i do not doubt that anyone who is mixed up in this will do whatever they can to avoid losses… but collusion of the sort you suggest, between so many people and entities will be impossible to hide.
People are blabbermouths, and they cannot be paid enough to conceal all which needs be forever hidden.. not to mention the many whistleblowers that exist at all levels in every govt and business enterprise.. imo, it would have leaked out already.
I think this thing will play out badly, and suspect the results may be even worse for all concerned than what might happen if there was an organized conspiracy to prevent it.
I think the banks are stuck in the opening phase of the prisoner’s dilemma, where they are all cooperating to prop up the prices of the homes on their books. However, once we have a few prominent defections, we’ll see them all dump their properties in a hurry. The homebuilders are going through this phase now, since they’ve started defecting with their “once in a lifetime” sales weekends, etc.
“Gray said she was encouraged to join Huron River to obtain a construction loan for an investment home in Florida through a real estate education group, ***Millionaire University***. It, along with Huron River and Howell-based The Construction Loan Co. Inc., is now the target of a lawsuit alleging fraud.”
“The suit alleges the defendants intended to sell the properties, most in Lehigh Acres, near Fort Myers in Lee County - at ‘inflated prices with excessive fees and commissions paid to the various defendants. ‘I couldn’t function and I didn’t sleep for days,’ Gray said of learning she and her husband owed at least $35,809 on a $208,800 Florida home she said they were told wouldn’t cost more than the $1,995 they put down at the beginning. ‘I said, ‘my God, I don’t have that kind of money.’
Dumb, greedy bit$h of the month. So sad your ‘millionaire’ designs didn’t work out as you planned.
My favorite quote from the story is this one:
“Gray said she and her husband were skeptical when they first received the paperwork to join Huron River. But she said she trusted the Millionaire University people and their affiliates, and so she went forward with it.”
What thinking… to trust an educational institution with the title “Millionaire” in it. Now that’s a sound decision. Anyone think Gray is a Rhodes Scholar? I’m guessing she is more of community college dropout.
Anthony Crocco, director for Central Florida and North Florida for MetroStudy.”
Anthony Crocco.. ?
as in crocodile…
as in florida ..
yeah.. sure.
“Wagner Realty is planning to hold a red tag sale this weekend that will give buyers a 10 percent discount on the list price of certain homes and condos in Sarasota and Manatee counties.” “‘It’s something I picked up from car dealers,’ said David Eckel, Wagner’s president.
A 10% discount will not sell the houses that will drop by 20% by the end of 2007 in this area. Using car sales tatics only underscores the direction some realtors will take to sell a home. It’s no wonder that realtors have moved past car salespersons as a profession that is least trusted. Realtors were rated number 1 followed by number 2, car salespersons.
If a 10% cut was all that was necessary to get me to buy a property, I’d long since have submitted an offer for 15% under asking. This sounds to me like a way for the agent(s) to convince the sellers to drop their asking prices by more than 10% — after the sale fails miserably.
Kids:
Here’s a copy of my latest email exchange with the “FB ho” Senator Mel Martinez:
Dear Senator Martinez:
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns regarding a federal bailout of distressed homeowners.
I take exception to your assertion that “… Congress cannot simply sit back and ignore what is happening in our housing market. We must use the resources of the federal government in a reasonable and responsible manner in order to mitigate against future losses.”
Congress should have acted four years ago, when responsible lending standards were discarded by the mortgage industry, and when borrowers flocked in droves to stated income, stated asset, adjustable loans with teaser rates. Congress should have strengthened regulation of the banks, and reined in the unregulated mortgage industry. Instead, Congress did nothing, and the artificial demand drove housing prices into the stratosphere.
Now you are suggesting that Congress throw money to bail out these reckless lenders from the consequences of their mistakes. You suggest that the FHA insure market rate loans to these distressed homeowners. I find this very offensive, since the ultimate bagholder in this bailout is the US taxpayer, either in the form of higher tax rates or increased borrowing.
By throwing taxpayer money into the hands of these borrowers, you are creating a moral hazard, since these borrowers learn that the government will rescue them from the consequences of their profligacy.
Congress refused to act when commonsense regulation would have prevented this problem from reaching a crisis level. It’s no surprise that the banking, lending and finance industry are huge contributors to political races. Now Congress is racing to bail out irresponsible borrowers using taxpayer money. This shameless demagoguery loses both my vote and my respect.
Regards,
yada yada
I’m in Florida this week. I’ll drive though Celebration and take some photos for Ben Jones!
It’s funny listening to people *complain* about house prices dropping and things “devaluing” their homes The way I see it:
1. If you’re looking to buy homes, seeing the bubble pop is good!
And, if you already own a home, one of the following three statements MUST be true
1. You bought a home for what you thought was a fair price and it was one you could afford without straining your budget. Neighborhood house prices “dropping” is a curiosity at worst, and may help you get your house reassessed so you can lower your property tax. Otherwise, what some website or appraiser thinks your home is worth won’t matter. (My parents have lived in the same house for 42 years. I don’t think I ever heard them talk about “property values”. They bought it, paid it off, live in it.)
2. You’re an “investor” You’re going to be the next Donald Trump! When you bought that house in some near-Windermere FL community for $650K you thought you were getting a great deal, and that you soon would become filthy rich! So now that prices are now $400K or lower, it’s AN EVEN BETTER DEAL! You should buy some more houses! After all, you’re a Real Estate Investing Genius!
3. You’re simply a dumbf–k you got ripped off.
I’m not making too many friends down here explaining to people that one of the three above statements *must* be true!
reuven, I’m surrounded by number 2. Wannabee Trumps who thought they were making a killing by buying as many houses as they could using the stated income, owner occupied lie. Now they are trying to push their houses on the few of us who still have money left. I always retort, “If your house is such a good deal, why don’t you keep it and buy more?” Utter silence…
Anthony Crocco, director for Central Florida and North Florida for MetroStudy.”
I wonder if Mr. Crocco has studied how much its costing to feed the alligators every month.
Watching the local Orlando news from my hotel room (The Grand Floridian at Walt Disney World.)
This area has always had high crime rates. While Sunnyvale CA, for example, has crime rates of about 15% of the national average, here it’s about 200%.
(You can get statistics here http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/violent_crime/index.html )
Locals here used to say “Oh! It’s just inflated because of minor tourist-crime. Stuff being stolen from cars, etc.” And I, sort of, beleived that.
The news has nothing but reports of Armed Robbery, Murder, Attempted Kidnapping, arson, alligator attacks, escaped monitor lizards, prison overcrowding, policemen getting killed, etc.
It’s nothing like that in Silicon Valley (north of San Jose to, say, Redwood City) And even South San Jose and San Francisco, while they have their problems, aren’t this bad according to FBI statistics.
Walt Disney chose Central Florida because he didn’t want the decay and ugliness around his park as happened in California. He wanted enough land to control the environment around it.
I honestly think the greater Orlando area, and those mega-developmets as far out as Lake County, are going to become one of the most dangerous slum areas in the United States.
buying a cheaper home before foreclosure on first home
Posted by josh on September 28, 2007 at 19:30:56:
I live in new jersey and bought a home 2 years ago with world savings. It was a mortgage based on the cosi index.The rates immediately started going up and I went negative right away. My payment is now 4000.00a month interest only. My income has dropped dramatically and I am unable to afford this payment for much longer as my taxes are over 10500 annually.I have a wife and 4 kids so I have been proactive and bought a smaller cheaper house in florida. I have gained employment there and AM closing in a week. My house here is for sale at below market value and I have had no luck. I am leaving the home in 2 weeks and my realtor will take care of all showings. I have enlisted the help of a short sale company with no out of pocket expense to me as they make there money only when the house is sold and closed.I can only pray the house sells soon as next month I will fall behind on the old house.I owe 412000 with world savings and 75000 to volkswagon bank as the junior lein holder.
http://www.all-foreclosure.com/forums/foreclosures/messages/4838.html