A Housing Conundrum
Keepmecurrent reports from Maine. “Maine’s cooler real estate market hasn’t just delayed Corey Center’s plans for selling her cozy South Portland bungalow for a larger Scarborough home. ‘The nuptials are on hold,’ said Center, whose two-story house has sat on the market for nearly a year. ‘I don’t want to be married and living without my new husband.’”
“‘I’ve had a few offers but they were so low, they were ridiculous,’ said Center, who has dropped her asking price from $270,000 to $249,900 for the three-bedroom, one-bath home. The new price is only slightly higher than her property valuation.”
“‘It’s crazy. I couldn’t go any lower,’ Center said. ‘I completely rejected two offers and countered one but never heard back.’”
“‘This is a natural correction,’ said veteran broker Adrienne Murphy. ‘The prices have been skyrocketing for the last four or five years.’”
The Boston Herald from Massachusetts. “The number of Bay State homes falling into foreclosure is running at nearly double the pace seen a year ago, new figures show.”
“Market tracker the Warren Group reported yesterday that lenders initiated foreclosure cases against 1,986 Massachusetts homes during August’s first three weeks. That’s up 90 percent from the 1,045 filings recorded during the same period last year.”
“‘Foreclosures are still rolling along, and I think (the problem is) going to keep going,’ Warren CEO Tim Warren said.”
The Boston Globe from Massachusetts. “‘It is important to note that while auction announcements rose 52 percent in August when compared to August 2006, they are up 259.7 percent over the number of announcements in August 2005,’ Warren said in a statement.”
“Developers of the Skyline Condominiums at Station Landing, the 127-unit development in Medford, will auction off unsold condominiums in the project on Nov. 11.”
“Skyline Condominiums has sold 42 units, or one-third of the total, in the project, which officially opened this summer but was on the market prior to that, said Robert Cole, president of a marketing firm that handling the auction.”
“‘We’re in a buyer’s market now, and we really do believe the auctions, where buyers determine the price, are the best way to move product,’ Cole said.”
“Bids will start at $535,000, for example, for a 12th floor penthouse, and at $275,000 for a one-bedroom on a middling floor. ‘That price point is soft in this market,’ said Cole.”
The Daily News from Massachusetts. “It’s not a seller’s market, a buyer’s market, a lender’s market, or anybody’s market, according to the Greater Boston Housing Report Card, released today.”
“Hesitation and anticipation of what kind of curveball a turbulent housing market will throw next has everyone waiting in limbo, according to the report from.”
“‘It’s difficult times all-around,’ said Bonnie Heudorfer, co-author of the The Boston Foundation fifth annual report. ‘We’ve been calling it a housing conundrum. Homeowners and landlords are worried about property values, and at the same time affordability has improved only moderately after a long runup in prices.’”
“‘It’s kind of a standoff,’ Heudorfer said. ‘Anyone who doesn’t have to sell keeps unrealistically high prices or pulls (their house) off the market. Home buyers have a lot more to choose from, but they’re waiting, anticipating that prices are going to drop even more.’”
“‘(Housing) prices have come down but the inventory is starting to really pile up because buyers are nervous about purchasing right now or they are not able as easily to obtain a mortgage,’ said state Rep. Pam Richardson.”
“‘It’s sort of a perfect storm in the housing market right now,’ said Richardson, a former real estate agent. ‘There’s still a pocket of people that even though the prices have come down they still cannot afford to buy a house in the MetroWest area.’”
The Times Herald Record from New York. “There are motivated sellers, and then there’s Rich Romash. A real-estate investor from Putnam County, Romash is determined to sell a house he owns in the Town of Wallkill by the end of the week.”
“The highest offer he’s received by Sunday evening will get the house, assuming the buyer jumps through all the usual financial hoops. ‘It’s gonna be a great deal for somebody,’ said Romash, who still hopes to turn a profit himself.”
“‘The buyer pool has not dried up. Their level of urgency has dried up,’ said Orange County broker Chris Scibelli. ‘If they don’t have to buy, they’ll wait it out, and the price will be different.’”
“With more than 3,300 single-family homes on the market in Orange County — about twice as many as there were just a few years ago — buyers have plenty to choose from, and little incentive to settle on a house they aren’t entirely happy with.”
Newsday reports from New York. “The Long Island housing market appears to have taken another hit. The MLS of Long Island said Thursday that the median closing price of a home on the Island plunged 4.5 percent in September from a year earlier. And 30 percent fewer contracts were written on houses last month compared to September 2006. The median closing price also fell in Queens.”
“Statistics show that inventory has remained..’around the 36,000 mark,’ according to a MLSLI press release (the exact number for September was not released), but real estate experts said that ‘tighter’ mortgage standards are keeping would-be home buyers out of the market.”
“Robert Campbell, professor of real estate finance at Hofstra University, said he was surprised by the extent of the drop in median price and predicted that it would take another year for the market to turn around.”
“‘It’s bigger than I expected, and it’s not going to help the foreclosure problems that we have,’ Campbell said. ‘People that bought houses last year with those 100 percent loans that were easier to get last year now own properties that are worth less than the mortgage.’”
“‘I think we are in that transitory period where the buyers are looking for a great advantage and the sellers are looking for yesterday’s prices,’ said Richard B. Arnold, a partner in Richard B. Arnold Real Estate in Sea Cliff. ‘Until we can get them to meet, it’s going to be this way.’”
“Like house hunters, even some real estate investors have stopped buying foreclosures.”
“That’s what some local experts said Thursday as RealtyTrac reported a 27.4-percent jump in Nassau’s foreclosure-related filings from the second to third quarter while Suffolk’s was up 14.4 percent.”
“‘The investors are not even buying the foreclosures’ at auction, said Mineola real estate attorney Michele Messina, who represents lenders on foreclosed homes. ‘They’re watching and waiting. If they’re purchasing something at auction, two or three months down the road, those prices are dropping again.’”
“In the last six weeks, Messina said, she has had two cases of prospective buyers walking away from their down payments, it’s the first time in 22 years that anyone has done that in her experience, even when the funds required by lenders range from $5,000 to $10,000.”
“‘They can get another home or another condo or townhouse for $20,000 or $30,000 less than what they entered into two months ago,’ she said. ‘Maybe the next property…was even better equipped, updated, newer kitchen, newer this, newer that, for $30,000 under the value that she already was in contract for. She’s walking away from 10, but she made 20.’”
“For-sale listings of foreclosures for broker Mike Carroll has increased many fold since the market began slowing early last year. He now has 40 to 60 foreclosure listings.”
“‘We haven’t seen this amount of foreclosures probably since 1993,’ said Carroll, who has three Re/Max Best offices on Long Island and also works as an auctioneer of foreclosed homes.”
The Courier Post from New Jersey. “More and more New Jerseyans are saying good-bye to the Garden State, and other Americans aren’t eager to take their place, according to a Rutgers University study.”
“The trend is a symptom of New Jersey’s high housing costs and taxes, and more robust job growth elsewhere, the report said. Between 2000 and 2005, it said, one in eight residents left the state. In 2006, 72,547 more U.S. residents left New Jersey than moved in.”
“‘New Jersey’s become a very, very, extraordinarily expensive place to live,’ said James W. Hughes, dean of Rutgers’ Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy and co-author of the report.”
“Families looking to move to New Jersey may be stunned by housing prices here. The median cost for homeowners with a mortgage in New Jersey is 52 percent higher than the national average, Hughes said.”
“‘The problem is sticker shock. If you’re coming from North Carolina and have a nice house for $300,000, that’ll buy you a shoe box in New Jersey,’ Hughes said.”
The Gloucester County Times. “The new data showed that in the last six years, nearly 1.1 million people moved out of New Jersey; one in every eight state residents. Over the same period, 883,405 moved in.”
“‘That’s starting to have significant effects,’ Hughes said.”
“The difference cost the state an estimated $10 billion in personal income and $680 million in state tax revenues between 2000 and 2006, the report found.”
“Rutgers’ Professor Joseph J. Seneca and Hughes also concluded that the migration could slow in the near future as a result of the current slump in the housing market.”
“It’s not a seller’s market, a buyer’s market, a lender’s market, or anybody’s market, according to the Greater Boston Housing Report Card, released today.”
I think bloggers here would disagree and call it a “knifecatchers” market
That’s a good one!
The only one buying is the one-armed man.
Ben, I’m definitley seeing mark downs in my area (East Bay, San Fran), but we have a long long way to go for affordability.
At this rate, I’d say we have at leat 4 more years to go, probably more, before sanity returns. My feeling is that once all these greedy G-damn boomers start retiring and try to sell their homes, sanity will trully return.
“My feeling is that once all these greedy G-damn boomers start retiring and try to sell their homes, sanity will trully return. ”
There are many boomers on this blog (including myself) but, of course, we are not in the category of the “greedy G-damn” type.
However, in regards to the retirement factor, I believe that many (the G-damn boomers) will not be able to retire as soon as they would like for having to pay off equity loans. The smarter ones will stay put and pay off their mortgage for a better retirement scenario. The others will definitely have a tough time.
My personal scenario: renting in the Bay Area (Dublin), but I’ve owned (and have rented out) a townhouse in Virginia for 8-1/2 years. I refinanced to a much lower interest rate in 2003 (4 percentage points lower…30 yrs, fixed), and am regularly paying extra towards principal. My plan is to have it paid off in 10 more years which will save me a ton in interest. I’ve read some arguements against the mortgage-burning party plan, but this one works best for me.
BayQT~
cape cod first in the tank in the East -same as last time
BTW any decent auction data around, not reserve but real auctions
A co-worker’s uncle just sold his Cape Cod cottage for $135,000. It is 270 square feet and comes with no land. That doesn’t sound like a bottom to me.
Got to come with at least 270 square feet of land right?
An acquaintance in my area just made an offer on a Cape Cod condo. (at least theirs is 1000 sq feet–no land)
Her husband lost his Syracuse area job over a year ago. He found a new one in the Boston area 6 mos ago. She’s been out here ever since w/an overpriced 10 acre homestead while he’s rented out a 1 BR apt. near his work.
Since they wrote up the offer for the condo this week the 10 acre place’s price was reduced. I think they should at least see some lowballs now but it is by no means bargain priced. Meanwhile there’s a 6 1/2 hour drive between them and she’s alone on a road that easily gets overrun w/snowdrifts.
As for their destination, I don’t think they ever considered renting on the Cape and waiting this thing out. I’m wondering if they should have since he’s close to retirement age yet still had to look for work.
RE: the Cape
Property insurance hell.
One hit from a major hurricane and the place is economic toast
“A co-worker’s uncle just sold his Cape Cod cottage for $135,000. It is 270 square feet and comes with no land. That doesn’t sound like a bottom to me.”
I just built a 196 square foot shed for $1,800. No, I’d say that’s definitely not a bottom.
Yeah, but does it have a toilet and microwave?
“Robert Campbell, professor of real estate finance at Hofstra University, said he was surprised by the extent of the drop in median price and predicted that it would take another year for the market to turn around.”
CLICK!
Probably closer to a Jupiter year (more than 4000 days) than a Martian year (about 700 days).
I figure this market could turn in one year as long as prices make the necessary 60% adjustments below 2006 levels.
Hofstra University is just starting a Real Estate Studies program. Talk about bad timing. When I told the director that I was expecting about a 40% haircut on Long Island he was not an happy camper.
I’m still sticking with my loan gunmen theory of who fired the $hot$
“Market tracker the Warren Group reported yesterday that lenders initiated foreclosure cases against 1,986 Massachusetts homes during August’s first three weeks. That’s up 90 percent from the 1,045 filings recorded during the same period last year.”
So I have been reading this for a couple years now and yesterday I finally heard people griping about their business slowing down due to the slowdown in housing….without nme asking or propmpting them to. #1 a girl I know that has been driving a roach coach for at least 8 years says she has to get out of the business due to slow sales. And most of the construction people she knows don’t expect a turnaround until at least 2009. #2 I went to see my pot dealer yesterday and he was complaining his business is half what it used to be and he blamed it on over half his people being in construction and they all have to cut back somewhere because the are working very little if at all. I found all this out without me even mentioning anything. This is Orlando by the way.
mike
It seems that everybody in construction gets stoned on the job site. That is a pretty scary thought. I can’t see those guys giving up their weed without giving up everything else first.
“I went to see my pot dealer yesterday”
Nice. You must be so proud.
ROFLMAO..
I think that was a genius way to size up the housing market. Probably the most original I have ever heard.
I don’t have a pot dealer on speed dial, but if I did, I would call him up and ask him how business is.
Yeah, heh-heh, it’s all a big joke. Toke ‘em up, folks!! And don’t worry about the next kid who gets snuffed in the crossfire between the dealers. Just light another doobie and you won’t feel the pain so much.
Just light another doobie and you won’t feel the pain so much. That’s good advice. Palmetto, sounds like you could use a bong hit or two.
Carl Sagan was quite the stoner…
Think less of him, now?
plz Mikey(2) do not ever talk to my BF.
He does not need encouragement.
“Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.”
W.C. Fields
“Once upon a time there were two china men. Now look how many”
Benny Hill
“Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.”
W.C. Fields
The city wasn’t closed, it was just that the entire population was ignoring W.C.
In his alcoholic haze he got confused.
“I can’t see those guys giving up their weed without giving up everything else first.”
Yeah, perish the thought. They’ll drive while tokin’, too. So what if they run over some schoolkid trying to cross the street. It’s their god given right to mess with people who aren’t high and just trying to cope with day to day living.
Wow, I think you’ve seen Reefer Madness one two many times, Mr. Judgement.
Reefer Madness, EXACTLY what I was thinking!
Palmetto: Back it up, babe - where’s the proof about someone stoned ever running over kids or gunfire between pot dealers. I dare say alcohol causes way more problems for society than pot ever has.
oh right, have you ever had to deal with somebody who hasn’t had their regular reefer dose?
cripes almighty I’ll take a screaming PMS (or even menopausal biatch) any day of the week.
Maybe in your world, but I’ve never seen someone jones about pot nearly as badly as alcoholics or even smokers.
Keep a Nicorette in yr pocket for any enraged, deprived smoker you might have to deal with.
Don’t forget the sixpack they’re drinking while driving stoned.
Palmetto,
Did n’t you know that drugs are victimless crime ? Yep. Wonder how all those unemployeed crackheads support their habit ? Sarcasm off.
Does make you wonder if the guys working on that bridge in Minneapolis were toking up or hung over.
I don’t care what you do, but stay off the road and the job site.
had a friend who worked construction in Aspen and assorted colo ski areas, he says cocaine is an expected benny on the jobsite, not pot, and it’s often provided by the employer. No wonder everything’s out of plumb. Friends bought a 2 mil townhouse in Telluride and had to practically rebuild it, including such low-skill things as resanding the doors, etc. I’m with Palmy, there are better reality-avoidance mechanisms than drugs…
Two negatives make a positive. The lumber materials are so warped and twisted that when the stoned framers install them crooked they actually end up plumb and square….
I have often thought you would have to be high, and not just a little, I mean stoned out of your mind high to pay the prices people have been paying for housing, esp condos. This post explains it, FBs were all stoned. Whoa dude I borrowed how much for this condo. I must have been really stone because I don’t even like granite.
On another subject, my gf reports that a condo owner was referring to his payment as the rent. I wonder how wide spread this perception is?
Have to agree with Palmy about the drug dealers getting outta control for the sales. In my old apt complex ,that was the one thing that pissed me off about the drug trade: average innocent citizens caught in any drug disputes.
You have to remember these people dont settle disagreements in civil court. They pull out deadly weapons & dont give a damn WHO gets hurt or killed.
I had to live around it for 4 goddam years in North Highlands, (Sacramento) CA, so yeah, I’m just a little bitter about the whole housing bubble that forced people like me to endure BS amongst the section 8 assholes just for financial peace of mind.
sidenote: whats ironic is I look like a cop so whenevr I stepped outside for some fresh air the sketchy people took off .. heh heh! Latin guys also. (illegals).
I’m all for live & let live, thats fine, in fact, do whatever you want in YOUR OWN HOME .. but the paradox is getting the ILLEGAL drugs TO your home, and what you do DURING your high.
Sure, not everyone goes out to work or drives when lit, but just the ones that do affect everyones lives.
We should just legalize & tax most of the drugs. BUT the law enforcement industry will never allow this as its a big job security guarantee. (neverending supply of junkies to jail)
I think we should just provide an island or seperate place for those who just want to get high & waste their lives.
No free medical. No luxuries. Since there will always be this type of personality in any society, why subject the decent people to their constant BS? Offer a voluntary place, one way ticket unless they prove they want to clean up, and send em off.
Yeah yeah I know, no way in hell would that happen as all the bleeding hearts will moan about ” mainnnnnnstreeeeeaming ” .
like the bums in san fran. but wait, gosh, recent headline from SF says the residents are SICK of the professional leeches.
Maybe there is hope.
rant off
hilarious, actually
And Don’t forget all the lawyers need clients too…Lots of jobs on the line by legalizing drugs.
The worst thing you can stand for in America Is:
I want to lay off 100,000 police officers because we just don’t need them.
================================
We should just legalize & tax most of the drugs. BUT the law enforcement industry will never allow this as its a big job security guarantee. (neverending supply of junkies to jail)
Aqius, just got home and saw the various posts. Thanks for your response, it mirrors much of my own experience and your solution is one I wholeheartedly agree with. There should be a separate place for those who wanna do what they wanna do, no matter how it affects others.
Thanks, man.
I don’t much care what people do - but the more “fundamentalist” types might want to think hard about prohibition. They provided the supply to meet demand in much the same way. We won’t even get into the corruption such “make it all illegal” thinking brings with it – and there are far more than a few thousand police jobs tied into keeping the other failing war dragging on (I mean, hey they pretty much got rid of
Coke and now we are blessed with crystal, what a great improvement!). We really ought to learn something from the other side of the pond – but every now and then I forget – we’re the “free” society…
But, while some of us are busy preaching to each other we might wish to keep in mind that in many areas it’s a misdemeanor – about like jay walking. Get over it, some areas recognize they have real issues to deal with and choose not to create unnecessary ones. And yes, I used to work for the courts (probation). I had far more important things to do then stress a stoner.
“It seems that everybody in construction gets stoned on the job site.”
You should have heard the stories while the Seabrook (NH) Nuclear Plant was being built.
or San Onofre or Diable Canyon. San Onofre was a drug bazaar when I was working there. Frightening.
RE: It seems that everybody in construction gets stoned on the job site.
Now there’s an indictment of anything built in the last 5 years.
Appraiser’s will have now have to add to their limiting conditions statement:
Projection of build quality based on construction work done in a workmanlike and professional manner to specifically exclude those companies employing the use of unskilled stoners.
LMAO…The country has become unhindged.
hd74man,
It’s the speed freaks (crystal\crack\coke…) you have to watch out for and avoid. They lose their minds and do really cr@py work. Stoners are patient and get it right – some of the best finishers and custom builders I’ve ever known were stoners. Of course those who make big deals about things are never likely to have a clue what’s going on around them – it will be kept well out of sight of those who have issues…
Ain’t nothing about that changed in the 25+ years of my adulthood…
All over the Low Sierra, practically the length of it, in fact…
The Michoacan drug lords are plying their trade~
Not unlike Al Capone, they are profiting from Prohibition.
Their stock in trade?
They take campesinos from the Narcostate of Michoacan, get them over the border and stick them in the foothills, up to around 4,000 feet well off trail, where 3 or 4 of them tend gardens of upwards of 20,000 plants, worth $40 Million. The campesinos earn around $30k a head, if the crop comes in. They might get busted, but from a risk to reward ratio, you are looking at perhaps 200-1.
Funny number that, 200-1, exactly the same amount of leverage one of the hedge funds was using.
Remind me, who were the bad guys?
p.s.
The word “Turicato” has been carved into many trees, in areas so affected by the growers, as per the word from my grapevine.
Googling “turicato marijuana”, returned this:
“These include Turicato whose mayor was reported as having fled to the United States after a drug gang’s death threat and where two other law enforcement official left their posts for similar reasons on Oct 30.”
“Turicato is also the site where on October 19, some 50 hired gunmen ambushed and fired on a squad of local police officers who are said to have returned fire.”
Mexican Al Capones, right in our backyard.
pdf warning, whoop, whoop!
http://www.justiceinmexico.org/news/pdf/justiceinmexico-october2006news-report.pdf
and how to get rid of this menace?
just legalize it, and they go away.
p.s.
There are hundreds, if not thousands of those $40 Million gardens, out and about, around the Sierra foothills~
Do the math, and see what is the real menace.
In a differentish view on the slowdown, it used to be I had to book my dogs a month in advance if I wanted to get them groomed on a weekend. Called yesterday and they had appointments open BOTH saturday and sunday.
That could be people letting them grow out more hair for the winter though. (Although I live in the Bay Area, CA)
I forecast the RE speculator from Maine will post here that Portland is roaring and prices aren’t falling.
I forecast that he will not post much here any more going forward, having joined the ranks of gelded regional RE bulls like LV_Landlord and Beaconst.
I’m not surprised you caught on GS.
“‘They can get another home or another condo or townhouse for $20,000 or $30,000 less than what they entered into two months ago,’ she said. ‘Maybe the next property…was even better equipped, updated, newer kitchen, newer this, newer that, for $30,000 under the value that she already was in contract for. She’s walking away from 10, but she made 20.’”
Using this logic, if she wanted till next year, she would have made 50??????
wanted = waited
Actually, if she could pay some appraiser $1000 to appraise it at half a million dollars, then she could “save” hundreds of thousands of dollars on her purchase!
“‘I’ve had a few offers but they were so low, they were ridiculous,’ said Center, who has dropped her asking price from $270,000 to $249,900 for the three-bedroom, one-bath home. ”
Excuse my ignorance, but how does an average house in Maine cost over $150,000 anyway?
‘The prices have been skyrocketing for the last four or five years.’
No national housing bubble?
But, but, I keep hearing all real estate is local.
It doesn’t, if you discount wishing prices. The owner of this little house,(I looked at the picture) is simply delusional. Incomes in Maine are low, taxes high, and without the lure of appreciation, the market won’t support this price.
The seller is taking if off the market, to wait and evaluate her options. Smart move, she can join the skyrocketing inventory in the spring.
That’s what I thought, spike. I spent many years of my life in New England back in the day, but mostly in every other state but Maine, only went there like once or twice. But your analysis of Maine sounds spot on, low incomes and high taxes, so how many people there can support the prices. Even $150,000 is too high for homes there.
Here is her logic. I have to get married soon, I won’t get married till I get my price for the house, therefore I will get my price for the house soon.
“But your analysis of Maine sounds spot on, low incomes and high taxes, so how many people there can support the prices.”
The ME seacoast is filled w/old money (ie Bush summer estate). In fact I’m stunned how many CNY locals here go to their grandmother’s vacation home on the ME coast. These are homes that won’t be sold when gram dies. They’ll be passed on.
CarrieAnne,
True, but look at the picture, it’s a working class neighborhood in Portland…a blue collar town. This is not Bar Harbor or Blue Hill.
Smart move, she can join the skyrocketing inventory in the spring.
They don’t see it that way.
Just talked to a friend of mine whose deceased mom left him her house. First he tried FSBO, listed $300k. No takers. Went with realtor: $280k, got some offers, went back and forth with latest bidder, settled $272k. (At this point as he relates story I’m stunned at his good luck).
But after home inspection, buyer wanted 15k reduction. My friend said “NO DICE I’m not going to be nickled and dimed.” So the deal is dead in the water. I couldn’t say anything to him, what was I going to say?
The whole point is, whether my friend got 280K or 272K or 25K it would have been gravy because it was inherited. But he’s still holding out for a better price. Until eyewitnessing this housing bubble, I never knew how powerful greed-blinders were.
Greed must be genetically built into primates.
I saw a documentary a long time ago on how to build a monkey trap. All you have to do is build a box with a hole just large enough for a monkey to slip his hand through. Place a large peice of hard candy in the box. The monkey reaches for the candy, but can’t pull it out (too big for the hole). The monkey won’t let go of the candy, not even as the trapper approaches to nab him.
Monkey’s aren’t that stupid - humans on the other hand…
http://www.zensufi.com/stories/arm.html
Julius: You know the saying, “Human see, human do.”
“Monkey’s aren’t that stupid - humans on the other hand…”
Yep. I don’t think monkeys make up deities, endow them with supernatural powers, and then bow down or otherwise worship them.
Most monkies are smart yes, except for the chimp we currently have in the Oval Office.
How did you miss the greed on display during the dot-com bubble?
in sort of a way I was profiting from it
“Excuse my ignorance, but how does an average house in Maine cost over $150,000 anyway?”
That’s pretty funny there, Palmetto. I think when I graduated college in 1983 quite a few homes on the other side of the Piscataqua (River dividing Portsmouth, NH and ME) cost more than that. Course, that was on the water. If you’re talking away from water, or in one of those towns where they introduce you to their wife and their cousin and only one person is standing there….
News from a bit further south, in Northern Virginia. In June of 2006, friends of ours sold the brick rambler they raised their family in and moved just south of the Occoquan River to a community of newer, small “patio homes.” They told us what they paid and we figured they bought a fairly large home. Surprise, it’s a 2/2 with about 2,000 sq ft of space. They paid over $250 a sq ft. Two others paid even more for homes on the same street in 2006. Went back to the tax appraiser site for that county the other day, and found an identical house on the street sold in August of this year at a 27% haircut from what our friends paid. Yikes!
Based on what the homes originally sold for, and adding an inflation bump-up, I figure they’re more than half way to the eventual bottom.
“The MLS of Long Island said Thursday that the median closing price of a home on the Island plunged 4.5 percent in September from a year earlier.”
And again, how is a decline of 4.5% considered a “plunge”? 20% is a plunge, IMHO. Sigh, I guess it is relative, but in the stuff business, discounting by 20% is no big deal. You don’t really even have a “sale” unless you’ve got 30% off.
Because they know that things are far worse than that 4.5%. Nothing is moving on Long Island, except some homes at the high end. The market is a train wreck. Anecdotal evidence suggested to my wife and I that Long Island is down 20% or more already.
“Long Island is down 20% or more already.”
I will be shocked and awed when this kind of number appears in the MSM, even though I anticipate it on a rational level.
last night the LIRR (long island rail road) stopped running on most lines due to heavy rains — had to pick up the BF from the only train line running. Invited several unfortunate train riders to get in my clown car and drive them back to sea cliff station. One of the riders commented she had moved to Sea Cliff, but still had her house in glen cove for sale — it was in contract, but it had fallen in and out of contract so many times she was crossing her fingers on this one (should i have suggested a St. Joseph statue?).
Another passenger commented that house prices and sales were going down and not looking so good. The one trying to sell her house in glen cove agreed, but then said “its different here.”
I kept my mouth shut like a good little “bitter renter” and let her continue to believe the Gold Coast is truly a special place to live. (sarcasm off). Besides I was in a charitable mood as I truly feel sorry for anyone (including myself) who has to ride the LIRR.
sorry for the long post
Thank you for following the Bitter Renter Code of Silence.
Although my wife and I already own a home, we still keep our mouths shut as we’re “bitter savers.”
palmetto, that “plunge” word caught my eye too, as a misnomer for the 4.5% decline - as NYCB suggests, reality might be a plunge but the percentage given is unrealistically small.
Yea, plunge caught my eye, too.
“…”4.5% decline in median price*…”
you all must have missed the asterisk and the footnote, which said, “median price is MEANingless (pun intended), and actual value of the house you are trying to sell may in have plunged … 20% or more.”
may in FACT have plunged…
The chick with the Maine place should spend $500 and fix that ugly walkway and broken steps. That’s a turnoff right from the start.
That $50k bungalow…. yes, 50K is overpriced beyond measure. The absurdity of these people is entertaining.
Lemming close, in Sea Cliff
“‘I think we are in that transitory period where the buyers are looking for a great advantage and the sellers are looking for yesterday’s prices,’ said Richard B. Arnold, a partner in Richard B. Arnold Real Estate in Sea Cliff.”
“‘The buyer pool has not dried up. Their level of urgency has dried up,’ said Orange County broker Chris Scibelli. ‘If they don’t have to buy, they’ll wait it out, and the price will be different.’”
Its just so terribly, terribly difficult for a broker to utter the words: ‘the price will be lower!
It’s like their lying little tongues just will not flap when the terrible word ‘lower’ is due to be uttered. What else to use?
Out here I have noticed that the ‘price reduced’ banners have been mostly replaced with ‘new price’ banners. Comical.
Re reluctance to use the word “lower”: in the Albany, New York region, the real estate industry is running an ad saying the local housing market is taking “a breather”. Quickly adding that it won’t last, so buyers should get busy now…
Note comments on HB part way down:
http://www.hamzeianalytics.net/
Thanks for the link Tx : )
Leigh
In relation to the girl’s ‘I just can’t go any lower line’…but the current ’standoff’ between buyer and seller may not be. We are already reaching the ‘can’t sell’ price for thousands of sellers, what with HELOC’s and high mortgages setting the bar. Much space is being devoted to foreclosures - the ossification factor is probably more in play, set in stone and can’t sell.
“the ossification factor is probably more in play, set in stone and can’t sell.”
yep, that’s the big problem, here. This happens twice. Once when the FB just can’t sell for any lower and has to go into foreclosure, then again when the bank holds onto it for the value of the loan, until they just can’t, anymore. And I don’t know how long that takes.
Yeah but the builders don’t set their prices in stone. They know they have to unload their inventory and they will do whatever it takes. All while the FB’s and REO’s bleed.
“‘It’s sort of a perfect storm in the housing market right now,’ said Richardson, a former real estate agent. ‘There’s still a pocket of people that even though the prices have come down they still cannot afford to buy a house in the MetroWest area.’”
” a pocket of people ” What, 80%.
It is basic economics,rational people will buy a home if the payments are less than comparable rent and can count on modest appreciation. This is no longer predictably the case anymore. The longer it takes prices to correct then the longer we will have what will ultimately become a frozen economy. Housing is not affordable to nearly anyone in most areas, especially when higher mortgage rates in 2007 are figured in, and appreciation into the future is doubtful at current prices. If the market corrects, things will get worse. People will ultimately lose hundreds of thousands in home values. Many more will be upside down. Few, except fools, will gladly jump in and save a sinking market. Most will wait and wait as housing and lands true value becomes essentially unknowable and illiquid. The housing market will essentially freeze in most areas. Banks and people will not be able to bear the losses so they will avoid them by sticking their heads in the sand. Local governments will have shrinking property tax bases that they have leveraged debt and spending plans on. Massive projects now being built will hammer tax payers. The Federal Reserve will continue to try to inflate the falling economy, as they are doing,paradoxically making things worse as mortgage refinance rates remain high causing resets to be more onerous in some cases,but ultimately it will deflate or the dollar will implode in Hyper-inflation. I suggest low debt,TIPS for domestic investment purposes, an apartment, and patience to anyone who wants to survive. Just one scenario.
The market won’t freeze. It hasn’t done so during previous regional busts, it didn’t do so during the Great Depression, and it won’t this time. Somebody always has to sell, and there is always somebody with the means to buy. All it takes the the right price.
“All it takes is the right price.”
And money.
You don’t need a highvolume of sales to set prices. There are enough homeowners without mortgages who will sell when life’s big changes happen. There are enough buyers, like those here on the HBB, to make a market at the right price.
Japan froze for almost a decade. Banks their did not want to realize and write down their losses. They were essentially dead men walking. I guess it depends on what form of denial we enter into. Usually when you can’t pay it is human nature to avoid talking about the issue. An economy without the ability to borrow money. Essentially a liquidity crisis. Is an economy that is freezing up. People cannot value assets if they are in massive flux.
Japan is way, way, different from the US:
1) Almost no new supply of housing
2) Substantial personal savings - way fewer “need to sells”
3) Much less mobile population, and way more houses passed between generations instead of being sold
4) Low divorce rate
The US has a high inherent rate of housing turnover and that is going to keep happening no matter what. The prices are just going to have to adjust to clear the market - and that means down.
I tend to agree. In some ways the USA is not Japan, but you can make the argument that many boomers who have seen gains in the hundreds of thousands in some areas will become stubborn and not what to sell below what their house once was worth. Younger buyers will put off life decisions like formation of families because of the costs associated with becoming independent. Eventually, policies that were designed to stimulate an economy depress it. The fed currently thinks that they are the masters of the economy not its servants. I doubt the US divorce rate will increase long term. You are almost committing financial suicide if you marry these days anyway. I am not arguing that the Fed will succeed in stabilizing home prices, but they will try and that will could easily make things worse, not better. For instance, the falling dollar that results from interest rate cuts is leading to higher rates, not lower rates. As far as money goes, few buy a home outright with cash. People need loans. If none are readily available the economy quickly stagnates. At some point the middle class starts being hit and the economy slows.
5) the japanese tend to honor their debts, actually sticking around for 40 years or so to pay back these overvalued properties.
unlike americans, who will walk away from their debts. all those foreclosures and REOs mean the market will not remain frozen as in japan bust, will eventually ‘release’ to lower true market prices. even so, i suspect it’ll take 5+ years or so to hit a bottom.
TIPS are a terrible investment in an era of a depreciating dollar because your return is dependent on the government’s estimate of inflation. With the government’s balance sheet degrading more and more the powers-that-be have a great incentive to low-ball the inflation figures.
The government has an incentive to lie. True, but it will be impossible to run an economy for long if they do lie. More importantly, unlike I bonds, TIPS are sold at auction and include a fixed return as well as an inflation payment.The market can and does adjust the additional fixed payment paid to make up for changes in government policies.
ibonds also included a fixed return as well as an inflation payment that adjusts every six months.
I have a load of old ibonds with a fixed rate of 3% plus the inflation adjustment. They’re fine. Newer ibonds…with a fixed payment of 1%…not so fine.
We made a tenative low ball offer for 40% less than asking to real estate agent. I was expecting to get blown off but she told us “Sure, get your pre-approval letter and we’ll present it.” Needless to say I was amazed. We decided not pursue it any farther so I told the realitor that we were going to hold off until spring. Her reply “good idea. She is seeing panic begining as people want to get out before it snows and the REO’s start flooding the market.”
This is No.VA for a house on 5 acres. It occured to me also that most homes like this have wells. Figuring in climate change what are the chances well well go dry and need redrilling? Good, I think.
Interesting report on TV about Loudoun county having a superfund site. This county was partially paved over with townhouses etc. but there is still a fair amount of well usage. I have lived here a long time and I never heard about a superfund site. Also haven’t heard a word about it since. Then Loudoun county is run by developers.
My daughter mentioned how her high school has a lot of new students who had attended prep school before. This year it seems a lot of parents couldn’t cover the 20k required to attend.
Funny you should mention the prep school thing; I’m seeing a lot of “open house” signs around the local Boston prep schools…not sure I’ve ever seen that before and this includes some really expensive, very exclusive, schools.
A local Syracuse prep school still had openings in July.
Here’s a recent article on the superfund site. It’s been in the news some lately, but not a lot. I work only a few hundred yards from there.
http://tinyurl.com/25bu7q
Those with wells in Loudoun county (well, the ones not around that site anyhow) are actually well off right now. The county has water restrictions right now due to the drought - like virtually no lawn watering or car washing. Those restrictions don’t apply to people with wells though.
Main risk is the well drying up. That depends totally on how deep it’s dug, as you mention.
My wife told me there was an abestos dump in Fairfax Station. They built a couple 5 acre manors on top of it.
Loudoun also has a problem with the soil near Countryside. There was a fair amount of swamp and high water table all through there.
wow, 40% off
2 foreclosures in my hood 22151
not back in the 90’s ever………..
RE: “Maine’s cooler real estate market hasn’t just delayed Corey Center’s plans for selling her cozy South Portland bungalow for a larger Scarborough home. ‘The nuptials are on hold,’ said Center, whose two-story house has sat on the market for nearly a year. ‘I don’t want to be married and living without my new husband.’”
“‘I’ve had a few offers but they were so low, they were ridiculous,’ said Center, who has dropped her asking price from $270,000 to $249,900 for the three-bedroom, one-bath home. The new price is only slightly higher than her property valuation.”
Maine is the Appalachia of the Northeast.
What was once a proud, Yankee bastion of self-sufficiency and frugality, with bustling small mfg’ing mills and a vibrant woods industry, is now a place where income redistribution is the primary goal of a Democratic socialist legislature and parasitic social welfare work now constitutes the largest employment growth industry.
Portland, Maine and it’s environs have been noted as having one of the largest concentrations of under-employed 30-somethings on the East Coast. Not much of a demand for quarter million BUNGALOWS
when you’re makin’ minimum wage busing tables and slingin’ drinks for some bar in the Old Port.
However I guess a few are wising up to the fact ME is the No #1 highest taxed populace in the country, despite a 33rd ranking in per capita income, and moving on to greener pastures.
The government is running a big scale media campaign to try and lure the GEN X, Y, and Z crowd to stick around with school loan debt forgiveness so they can tax and fee them to death on the other end in order to pay for the Greatest Gen elder health care and government retirement benefits.
In another time, vacationing out-of-staters could be lured into the state’s tax and spend spider web and not have clue about the rot that lies beneath the splendid scenery.
However, blogs like this offer the smart ones a new means for the application of caveat emptor.
So, good luck Corey with your quarter mil bungalow.
BTW…The average state income in ME is $26k.
The pool of out-of-state suckers is gone.
“The pool of out-of-state suckers is gone.”
But someday there will be another cycle to empty the pockets of sneaker wearing fools. You know this to be true HD.
You’re right though. The MetroMorons have slowed to a trickle in VT and upstate NY. I’m waiting for it to really reverse course and watch them all leave but that takes a few years.
Went to a Dem candidates’ forum in Deer Isle last fall, when idiotic state rep Hannah Pingree said the reason Maine taxes are high is that “it’s a poor state.” I went up to her afterwards and suggested that it keeps itself a poor state by discouraging those who might love their Maine summers from becoming Maine residents: the top income tax bracket (more than 8%) kicks in for everyone who makes more than I think $12K per year. That’s right, not $120K, but $12K. I’m not about to pay that.
What kind of reply did you get from Pingree ?
az lender, did the thought ever occur to you that the natives might want it that way?
idiotic state rep Hannah Pingree
Maine has a legislature one third larger than necessary given the 1.2 million populace.
Most are retired state employees in the hip pocket of the public employee unions.
The place is so broke it is issuing bonds to pay for everyday expenses.
Like CA?
“The government is running a big scale media campaign to try and lure the GEN X, Y, and Z crowd to stick around with school loan debt forgiveness so they can tax and fee them to death on the other end in order to pay for the Greatest Gen elder health care and government retirement benefits.”
And that right there is why over the next 25 years this country will see an migration of 20 to 40 years olds from “blue states” to “red states” like never before. I love how the liberals running these states are so desperate to lure young workers to support their entitlement schemes, but can never see what it is that is keeping them away (the costs of supporting those entitlement schemes). The 2010, 2020, and 2030 censuses will result in shocking congressional reapportionments from the northeast and midwest to the south and southwest. Hence the democrat push to nationalize the entitlements - no way for young workers to escape the taxes.
RE: The 2010, 2020, and 2030 censuses will result in shocking congressional reapportionments from the northeast and midwest to the south and southwest.
Spot on post, AZ_O
My only caveat would be…as long as the water holds out in the South W&E.
I think of ME as a place where the separation of the social classes is on hyperdrive.
I’ve been vacationing on Pemaquid Point for years and have always watched the real estate. You can’t get near the place for miles. The place we rent is owned by 2 well renowned doctors based in Weston, MA where they own hundreds of acres. I guess one would be impressed by their credentials but in fact they’re both old money. They’re not alone.
hd74man,
I am a blogger who is in your debt for info on Maine.
“The MLS of Long Island said Thursday that the median closing price of a home on the Island plunged 4.5 percent in September from a year earlier. And 30 percent fewer contracts were written on houses last month compared to September 2006. The median closing price also fell in Queens.”
However “according to a study by appraisal firm HMS Associates. The average sales price for Brooklyn homes rose 12% to $704,888 during the three months ended Sept. 30, according to the report, which included data on single and multi-family homes, as well as co-ops and condominiums. Average sales prices climbed 3% in the second quarter and 9% in the first quarter, though co-ops were not included in the data from the first three months of the year.”
A couple of things. HMS excluded the poorer neighborhoods of eastern Brooklyn so foreclosures “wouldn’t distort” the numbers, and sales volumes are down in Brooklyn due to a “standoff.” But even given that, you have two huge boroughs on the western end of Manhattan, with Queens a newer area near Midtown Manhattan and Brooklyn an older area near Downtown Manhattan. Prices are down in one place (and in all the outlying suburbs), up in the other (and in Manhattan). Why?
Brooklyn now has a hip international reputation. I’ve run into lots of Europeans VACATIONING in Brooklyn and hanging around Prospect Park. There are lots of Brits in the area, working in finance, transplated from London.
Apparently, the ONLY demand at these prices is in pounds and Euros, not dollars.
There is no “western end” of Mahattan. It is a narrow island that is oriented approximate North/South. The westside of Mahattan borders New Jersey, Queens is to the east and Brooklyn to the southeast. Prices are probably up in Brooklyn because it has some highend neighborhoods, Queens really doesn’t. If you exclude the poorer neighborhoods of eastern Brooklyn you really can’t make a fair comparison with Queens. Excluding those neighborhoods only makes sense if you are comparing Brooklyn with Mahattan south of Harlem.
I agree that Manhattan seems cheap if you just flew in from London. Its also pedestrian friendly and they sort of speak English.
“queens really doesn’t” [have high-end neighborhoods].
queens certainly has high-end neighborhoods: forest hills, douglaston manor, little neck …. but these high end neighborhoods have never caught on to the manhattan-friendly hipster crowd. they are primarily high-earning family oriented suburbs in the city.
The thing with Brooklyn that WT mentioned is kind of weird though to Nyers. Yeah, Brooklyn has some high-end nabes…Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, etc. It also has an army of priced-out Manhattanites who had a kid and had to move to Park Slope. Williamsburg is an attempt to recreate the Soho of the 70s without the gorgeous old buildings…just the big, rundown warehouses, and now the place is over-condoed. And the wholly deluded are buying brownstones in BedStuy and moving in with their kids. Great idea..french doors in an old, mean, ugly slum–sure, make break-ins easy. Then there’s Red Hook…some nice rehabbed workers’ rowhouses, hemmed in by a giant, drug-infested project, without public transit.
Folks who can’t afford Manhattan have done a good pr job on Brooklyn, but as even Brooklynites will tell you, it ain’t the city. Like Queens, it’s a secondary market.
When they say they’re going to the city, they mean they’re going to Manhattan.
‘They’re watching and waiting. If they’re purchasing something at auction, two or three months down the road, those prices are dropping again.’
This is it then. This indicates that a reinforcing feedback has started to seriously take hold on downward prices. This is not about purchasing a “steal” from a FB or distressed homeowner wanting to dump but actual foreclosure auctions that are not moving. The banks and loan holders will soon realize that they have to dump this stuff. They will do the analysis in a cold and calculating way that the FB’s couldn’t or wouldn’t.
Now, next question: How low?
My answer: Lower than even we think!
Reason: I read that a 3br 2ba was overpriced at $1.1Mil in late 2005 (ref escapes me but in CA). The REALTOR in the article said it was more like $800K for that specific house. This will need to crash bad as in down more than $500K for affordability reasons. At $200k to $250k it would move after a period of time on the market. Serious, real serious situation.
Roidy
‘Lower than even we think!’ but also ‘Slower than even we think.’
The story was that Japan’s RE crash could never happen here because their banks lacked transparency. The psychology behind US corporate management is not any better (arguably worse when it comes to accountability). They will hide the bad news as long as they can. Even shareholders may prefer RE losses to be hidden and we know from Enron that auditors lack any morality. The banks may just keep the REO’s indefinitely as the Feds will stave off any run on the banks through new borrowing.
Perhaps the towns will step in before the REO ghosthouses turn into crackhouses.
Got a decade’s worth of popcorn Neil?
This insanity is what makes RE cycles take ten godd*mn years. Doesn’t she realize that no one is as desperate to move in to her place as she is to get married? But people will hang on, just asking (as the article says) slightly more than the place is worth, until they can’t do it for another moment, relent, and find a knife catcher.
This slow-motion paroxysmic sales cycle is going to just build and build and build and then WHAM! one more comp is low. Someone else was holding out, and just got another wham! in their belief that a property SHOULD sell for more than it is valued at.
Jesus, what a train wreck all of this is.
“The Gloucester County Times. “The new data showed that in the last six years, nearly 1.1 million people moved out of New Jersey; one in every eight state residents. Over the same period, 883,405 moved in.”
No offense to NJ people… But NJ isn’t one of those states that I salivate over. The question is: Who WANTS to move to NJ, or the vast majority of the East Coast? It’s got crappy weather, ridiculous home prices, taxes, etc etc etc. No thanks. If people are moving out of that region, I’,m not surprised.
fougedouboudit
everyone is fake mafia to boot
“‘It’s crazy. I couldn’t go any lower,’ Center said. ‘I completely rejected two offers and countered one but never heard back.’”
Why? Your ex husband only paid 84,000 for the dump back in 1994.
I have to stop reading these greed stories as it puts me in a bad mood for several hours.
I was in NYC last month, and across from my hotel they were building already sold out condos starting at 2.9 mil., for 1000 Sq. ft. I live in Santa Monica, and there is new construction of townhouses all around, some just came up down on Ocean Ave. starting at 1.5 mil. I know this madness must end, but when will it?? If housing remains this high, there is effectively no middle or even upper middle class, and we are all poor.
You are buying into Dubya’s bogus “ownership society”. Neither your net worth nor disposable income depends on you owning a house, any more than it depends on you owning shares or Microsoft or any other specific asset. Quite the opposite, RE has been at best a lukewarm investment historically and is a terrible investment now.
The true cost of shelter is the market rent. If buying is more expensive than renting, just don’t buy. Put your money where it will work for you - that’s the way you build wealth.
A millionaire who rents is still a millionaire, and is a lot more likely to stay that way than someone who has $1mil “equity” in his house.
the welfare society will be back w a vengiance soon
flat… didn’t Clinton get rid of that 10 years ago?
After bumping around at 70c-76c for several years until Halloween 2006, the Australian dollar took off, and today is the first day the “fxhistory” website is showing it above 90c. Whether I should still have large long AUD positions is unknown.
Geez, I was reading that as hexadecimal numbers the first couple of attempts…
‘A millionaire who rents is still a millionaire, and is a lot more likely to stay that way than someone who has $1mil “equity” in his house. ‘
One would think that. There is something about market boom and busts that resets the thinking though. I think we are still in denial.
It’s always been bogus to count any value, real or imagined, of your primary residence in your net worth.
I’m with you in sentiment on this yogurt, but somehow it doesn’t seem sustainable, because those million dollars are increasingly worth less and less. And, what you get for your rent gets less and less. Sure, you will be able to take nice vacations, but, man, shouldn’t you be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor in your own country? I think so.
‘The nuptials are on hold,’ said Center, whose two-story house has sat on the market for nearly a year. ‘I don’t want to be married and living without my new husband.’
Drop the damned price! Does she want a few grand of profit more than she wants to get married?
RE: Drop the damned price!
She can’t.
She HE-LOC’ed it to pay for a $60k wedding!
here’s the house on realty.com
http://tinyurl.com/3yl8wg
BayQT~
The real reason may be that she can’t lower the price any more because if she does she might have to bring cash to the closing. Anything at or above 90% LTV on her mortgage and she is probably underwater after paying 6% realtor fees and other closing costs. Then how would she pay the thousands of $$$ for her wedding?
–
The Courier Post from New Jersey. “More and more New Jerseyans are saying good-bye to the Garden State, and other Americans aren’t eager to take their place, according to a Rutgers University study.”
The same thing that has been happening to CA for the past two years. The population growth in CA is coming from immigration, legal as well as illegal. Otherwise, there is net emigration to other states.
Jas
I’m seeing plenty more Meh-he-canos at the Deptford Mall in the past 5 years. Used to be the small numbers that did exist shopped at the Berlin Farmer’s Market or the Vineland Mall (which is really just a big strip mall).
Having a Friday morning brain-cramp at work, so I start reading HBB. The comments are getting good, it’s a nice little break.
Then the bored interns come around handing out free popcorn, I kid you not.
I love my job. Viva viva HBB.
–
The cause of Housing Conundrum:
“Houses [New and old] Are Not Being Marked to Market”
To clear the inventory. This was the comment from an economist on CNBC.
So it is not just the banksters and financiers who are not marking their “inventory” of financial products to the market.
Jas
“‘The problem is sticker shock. If you’re coming from North Carolina and have a nice house for $300,000, that’ll buy you a shoe box in New Jersey,’ Hughes said.”
There was a dean of higher learning that lived in a box de la shoe
He had no advice, he knew not what to do
He gave them some froth, told them of pricing dread
Then slipped off away
And nobody cared what he said
I just inhaled, and i’m swerving all over the keyboard…
whoops
there goes my late great political career.
LOL…you just kill me.
p.s.
Not all drugs are ok, most aren’t.
Not 100 feet away from me grows prodigious amounts of Jimson Weed, i.e. Datura. This nasty drug was the cat’s meow for the Chumash indians, around Santa Barbara way back when, but it’s
got plenty o’ downside, it screams STAY AWAY, not unlike cocaine or heroin or a lot of other drugs, for that matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium
“‘It’s crazy. I couldn’t go any lower,’ Center said. ‘I completely rejected two offers and countered one but never heard back.’”
YOU’RE crazy. Your house has been on sale for nearly a year, you got 3 offers on your POS and you rejected them all. Keep it up and by the time you get married you’ll be menopausal already.
Luckily for buyers, your home is destined for auction at HALF price sooner or later.
This will be interesting. New hubby won’t pressure her to sell but will be expected to make up for the mistake of her not selling sooner. That marriage is off to a good start….
Well, I used to own a home in Maine and it looks like the only problem with Ms. Centers’ home is that she’s got it overpriced by about 170K.
My place was in Bar Harbor and cost 19K (yes that’s nineteen) for a big old 2 story that had been divided into 2 apts. Bought it around ‘83 I think. Just to clear up a debate that was happening above, there is a lot of poverty up there, even in Bar Harbor. Which meant there was a great barter economy firmly in place, even between dentists and their patients. The wealthy families who owned the mansions by the water were not around for more than a few weeks each year, but paid the locals handsomely (by Maine standards) to caretake the properties, etc. Half of those mansions were even left open year round so you could duck inside to get out of a snowstorm or just to “have a peak”. It was a pretty symbiotic relationship, even if it was a bit sickening to see a gold plated water faucet in the bathtub that would have fed a family of four for a year.
Somebody from the Portland area correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t South Portland the armpit of Portland? Seems that it used to be anyway.
It’s been so disheartening to see that even Maine, correctly called by a poster above the “Appalachia of the North”, has been dragged into this corrupt, debilitating housing bubble. I went back a few years ago thinking I might buy again there, saw the prices and said “No Thanks”.
I finally figured out why housing prices are “sticky” downward, meaning, people have an incredibly hard time lowering the price of their houses when they put them up for sale. In particular, in a falling market where r.e. prices are going down, and they are expected to continue going down for quite a while.
They absolutely refuse to sell for less. They sometimes take their homes off the market. Or they try to negotiate down a small amount, only to see the sale evaporate.
Some refuse to bargain, even when it means losing their house to foreclosure.
What gives? Are they out of their minds? And what’s wrong with people that they are unable to negotiate.
I finally figured out what it is: it’s an emotional issue.
It’s a secret among realtors: home shopping is considered to be an emotional thing. Reason goes out the window, and emotions run wild and that wife “just gotta have that house” at all costs.
That’s why realtors do sneaky things like put cinnamon rolls in the oven during Open House, and leave them there all day. It’s the emotional, subjective thing they play into.
And that’s where the danger is.
How many people did the “investing” part of house flipping, or just buying homes, and in fact used the subjective parts of their brains?
No wonder we’re in trouble.
Somebody from the Portland area correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t South Portland the armpit of Portland? Seems that it used to be anyway.
It’s been so disheartening to see that even Maine, correctly called by a poster above the “Appalachia of the North”, has been dragged into this corrupt, debilitating housing bubble. I went back a few years ago thinking I might buy again there, saw the prices and said “No Thanks”.
Enough w/ the Condescension!!! You people have obviously not been to Portland, South Portland or Maine in General in a while. You can’t even park in Portland, Bar Harbor, Camden and even inland in Belgrade Lakes or Moosehead because it is so crowded w/ cruise shippers, yuppies from Boston and NY, and wealthy retirees that are still streaming in. Because much of Maine is probably a lot nicer and desirable than wherever the two of you live now. And many of those people visiting are still moveing here, keeping this housing market in BETTER shape than the rest of NE, even if it is “Appalachia.”
I don’t necessarily like the fact that housing prices have gone up so much, but it is better than putting up w/ attitudes like yours. Oh I guess Maine should just stay poor and barefoot so you can get your quaint little cottage on the ocean and pay the help a fin a day to clean up. Seriously, good riddance!