October 19, 2007

The Year When Saturation Came To Town

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Hanoi’s real estate market is heating up day by day with the prices of apartments in luxury areas like Ciputra, The Manor, and Trung Hoa-Nhan Chinh up by nearly 100%. Mrs Hoa, who owns a villa and an apartment at Ciputra, said that she had decided not to sell the apartment at this moment as she thought the price would rise further.”

“Mr Duc from Bitexco said said that unlike previous years, when prices increased when speculators pushed the prices up, the market is now really hot due to the high demand. Mr Duc said that the supply shortage would make the ‘price fever’ last for a long time.”

“According to former banker and property consultant Carlos Moedas, the banking system in Portugal is just too well run and cautious in its lending policies for a run on the banks caused by the sub prime housing market crisis in the United States. In fact, there’s every sign that the commercial property and housing markets could continue to grow well into 2008 if this year is anything to go by.”

“There have been consistent booms and busts in the property markets on the Iberian Peninsula: 1976, 1985, 1993, and perhaps, 2008-9.”

“‘I can tell people that a good opportunity to buy will come quite soon, within the next two years. This means that people with money to invest in property and buy then, will be laughing all the way to the banks in 10 years time,’ he said.”

“At St Lucia’s Jalousie Plantation, a beachfront resort nestled in a cove at the foot of the Caribbean island, a new development is rolling out about 50 single, one-bedroom (a single with a living room) and double villas ranging from $580,000 to $1.2 million.”

“‘It’s a chance to get in before prices go up,’ says DCG marketing director Suzanne Gryspeerdt. ”It’s about to take off.”

“First-time buyers are purchasing properties with people they have known for less than a year in their rush to get on to the housing ladder, a survey has shown. One in five people who bought their first home with someone other than their spouse admitted they had known the person for less than 12 months, according to the UK’s Skipton Building Society.”

“Jennifer Holloway, head of media relations at Skipton Building Society, said: ‘We can all understand the panic that potential homebuyers must feel at the news that house prices are still rising. So it’s not surprising that they’re resorting to desperate measures to try and put an end to their misery. But desperation shouldn’t mean that caution is entirely thrown to the wind.’”

“Now is the time to buy a house in Wanganui. House sales were at a six-year low last month, according to Ross Watson of the Manawatu-Wanganui Real Estate Institute.”

“Mr Watson said now was the time to buy, particularly for those on the hunt for their first house. ‘There’s a lot of property for sale, so lots of choice for buyers. Property prices really will not be any more affordable than what they are currently,’ he said.”

“Only four houses over $300,000 were sold in September, and Mr Watson said buyers were being cautious. He said the slow sales weren’t confined to Wanganui. ”People aren’t prepared to take the risk of a high mortgage. It’s happening right across New Zealand.’”

“A decade-long boom for the property market in Spain has ended, with prices falling for the first time in many parts of the country, new figures show. The Spanish Government yesterday played down fears of a crash. Rafael Pacheco, the Housing Director, said the figures showed that Spain was experiencing a ‘gradual and gentle landing for house prices. You cannot speak of a crisis,’ he said.”

“If 2007 was the year of ramped-up rents, increasing government regulation and a closer focus on the information homebuyers need before purchasing a property, many experts are predicting the Gulf real estate market in 2008 will forever be remembered as the year when saturation came to town.”

“A quartet of expert studies over the course of the past few weeks have suggested that the real estate market in the Gulf, in particular the UAE, is in danger of seeing residential supply outpace demand by close to 40,000 units and customers finding it increasingly difficult to differentiate between the hundreds of developers touting their business on billboards, print pages, radio, TV and the internet.”

“‘A situation of oversupply is unavoidable by 2009, which will put downward pressure on prices. The extent of the oversupply situation will depend on the timeliness of deliveries,’ Property management specialist Asteco predicted.”

“Yang Ping hasn’t slept well since September 27, when the central bank raised the down payment for mortgages to 40 percent for second apartments. It also lifted the interest rate on mortgages for second-apartment buyers.”

“‘I will go bankrupt,’ said Yang. ‘I need at least another 180,500 yuan for the bigger down payment,’ she said. ‘And my mortgage payment is an extra 780 yuan a month.’”

“Before the new policy was announced, it was a different story. Yang’s new apartment jumped in value from 11,000 yuan per sq m in mid-June to over 15,000 yuan per sq m now. A reporter mainly covering the property sector, Yang believes Beijing’s real estate market still has large growth potential compared with international cities like Hong Kong.”

“When New Jiangnan Construction, a block close to the capital’s CBD, went on sale, Yang decided to snap up an apartment, even though she had only 180,000 yuan to spare, barely enough for the 20 percent deposit.”

“‘I was lucky to even get the apartment,’ said Yang, adding that she was vying with over 6,000 people for the 350 units on offer. ‘I didn’t even have time to discuss it with my husband because he was on a business trip.’”

“In September 2005, an 84-page study was released in response to concerns of a housing bubble. And, just who sponsored this rosy look at the mortgage market on the eve of its collapse: the Mortgage Bankers Association. Look at what happened since.”

“The MBA wasn’t the only organization to paint a too-bright picture. Then Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan, in Feb. 2004, famously touted adjustable rate mortgages for home buyers (while at the same time not pressing Federal Reserve oversight of lenders).”

“The National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) also boasted of an economy ‘on a strong growth path’ and noted ‘house price continued to advance rapidly…bestowing more wealth on American homeowners.’”

“But, while Greenspan tempered his endorsement of ARMs by later saying they were not good for all home buyers and the NAHB forecast that housing would slow and drag the economy, the MBA stuck steadfastly to its optimism. The study, in fact, remains prominent on the Association’s website.”

“The lesson: don’t only look at what the words mean, look at who wrote them.”

“The number of foreclosures in the nation has been on the increase. According to the Silver State’s own Sen. Harry Reid, foreclosures in Washoe, Douglas, Elko and Nye counties over the past two years are up by some 300 percent.”

“‘We can’t afford to wait until the next legislative session in February 2009,’ or so sayeth Assemblywoman Sheila Leslie about a special legislative committee that is scheduled to meet Oct. 22 to address the problem. ‘The problem has reached a crisis level in our state, with Nevada having the highest rate of foreclosures in the nation.’”

“Neither of these two rocket scientists—both in office for the past two years—had a thing to say when banks were making all those ‘high risk’ loans to people. (Why is it politicians are always fixing problems after they’ve become a crisis and never before?)”

“Of course, when times were good, banks were lending money like there was no tomorrow.”

“It is difficult to feel sorry for anyone here. I mean, should you feel sorry for banks who loaned money to people that wouldn’t (or couldn’t) eventually repay said loans? Or should you feel sorry for grown adults who bought more house than they could afford or got into a loan that they didn’t understand?”

“The point here is that perhaps the politicians will leave the private transactions between private parties, namely homebuyers and lenders, alone? Banks will eventually learn not to over-lend and buyers not to over-borrow. Both will learn their lessons, albeit painfully, and neither requires government intervention.”

“Citigroup, J.P. Morgan and Bank of America have proposed the establishment of a new $80 billion superfund to buy underperforming loans from troubled real estate lenders like Countrywide. Beyond the dubious and transparent psychological boost to the market, there is no economic or financial benefit to be derived from this effort.”

“The simple fact is that many customers of Countrywide and other big real estate lenders cannot pay their high priced mortgages and cannot sell their homes for the high prices they paid.”

“The blame belongs squarely on the government’s expansion of the money supply that encouraged what we now see as a bubble housing market. There is no going back and undoing this error.”

“Like all government economic interventions, it can only help some at the expense of others, and whatever action it takes now will have no effect on curing previous malinvestment except to delay its redeployment and exacerbate the problem.”

“The nation should learn from this crisis that government cannot make us rich; it can only make some rich at the expense of everyone else.”




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137 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-10-19 14:50:01

We saw many housing bubble $billions evaporate in this bank-reporting week, and it wasn’t the subprime guys. More HB myths destroyed!

Anyway, another great week of building a consensus, folks. My thanks to those who support this blog. Please check back this weekend for news, your market observations and topics.

Comment by amy repo girl
2007-10-19 15:42:35

if i have a lot of positions in the stock market, i would be very scared. they keep saying that the subprime mess is tiny, then how come the big bail out. things don’t add up. my prediction for the market melt down to occur around halloween still holds. any taker.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-19 15:49:04

Liquidity could go down the drain at any time…

This country is a stampeding herd, don’t get run over.

 
Comment by John
2007-10-19 16:28:29

1. Some stocks are unaffected by housing.

2. Some stocks will *gain* due to the housing problems.

3. The negative impact depends on your investment horizon. I’m fine with weak stocks now because I’ve got 25-35 years before I’ll need the money. Bad news = good prices on unfairly slammed stocks and stocks that are likely to recover. If you are near/at retirement age it’s a different story.

4. Everyone (by now) knows about the housing problem and believes it is real. The only question is how severe its impact will be. A large percentage of stock holders will tolerate a few years of weak performance and not sell because they know it takes a long time for recovery. We are currently seeing just short-term traders/speculators selling off, and this would be true even with a 10% fall (DJIA 1,400 points down from the peak–not just 500 points down).

5. Warren Buffett, one of the most successful living investors, says get greedy when others are afraid…and be a seller when others are greedy. He also likes to keep stocks for decades…

Comment by Vermonter
2007-10-19 17:21:38

Yes, and Warren Buffett has not bought anything major recently, sits on a ton of cash, and has diversified (for the first time ever) out of the US dollar (that was 2-3 years ago). Be very afraid.

My thought is that as long as you are buying individual stocks and know why you are buying them you will hopefully be okay. It’s the index and mutal fund people that will have their collective rears handed to them if the stock market crashes.

Mr. Buffett’s strategy of buy and hold never really included “buy high”. Investing at peak prices and then waiting 2 or 3 decades for recovery ignores the opportunity costs of bailing at somewhere near the peak and earning money in a “boring” investment will prices tank.

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Comment by Vermonter
2007-10-19 17:28:56

will=while

 
 
Comment by RoundSparrow
2007-10-19 21:23:01

1. Some stocks are unaffected by housing.

2. Some stocks will *gain* due to the housing problems.

But the stock market has problems even bigger than the housing market. This mentality that you can have 15% gains every year and always goes up. It just doesn’t fit nature. You can take cycles out of human behavior.

The bigger the up, the stronger the fall.

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Comment by peter wiener
2007-10-19 22:35:00

All stock prices are affected by reductions in ready liquidity.

Warren Buffet said, and I quote verbatim ” be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful”. He doesn’t say anything about buying nor selling.
He was referring to acting (buy or sell) at market EXTREMES, not because the Dow is down 350+ points in a day. Check his trade on US treasuries a few years back as he tagged (within 20 basis points!) the high trade on the 10 year AND MOVED $6 BILLION in 3 hours at that near 20 year high average price. To achieve that unbelievable result he handed the bonds to a market made rabid by a rush for the security of US Treasuries at the maximum point of fear. That is what he was talkin’ about.
Just remember John … “a little knowledge is dangerous”

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Comment by Betamax
2007-10-20 03:07:49

Peter & Vermonter — very well said. Too many misquote Buffet while completely misunderstanding his strategy.

 
 
 
 
Comment by vthousingbear
2007-10-19 19:22:29

Ben, you rock in a most contrarian way….that took a long time type!!!!!!

 
Comment by Van Gogh
2007-10-19 22:02:42

What an incredibly great post Ben. You have nailed the global mania in spades with this one. It’s almost like looking at the Tulip Bulb thing 350 years ago and i think it must end the same way. Mania’s die hard and make no mistake that this is an intergenerational mania of probably a 350 year or so degree cycle and the outcome will be devastating and probably much worse than any of us may envision right now. It wasn’t that many generations ago that we were more or less basic hunters and gatherers and the Industrial Revolution that started around 1750 or so was the thing that enabled urbanization. From there we have become so “sophisticated” with big government and bureaucracy that we are now reverting to (urban) barbarism and the “Collapse of the Complex Society”. The last 10 or 20 plus years of totally undisciplined fiat paper money and credit expansion governed by a bunch of “Suits” likely IS the Blowoff in spades that will lead to some serious kind of Dark Ages. I think one needs to look at things at least a bit that way and try to plan accordingly. Thanks .

 
Comment by CleanFace
2007-10-19 22:33:16

Long time reader, first time poster. I have been wondering where everyone gets their “money” for a long time…but it’s different in Toronto, everyone wants to live here…right…right? It’s a new paradigm…I got popcorn and (Canadian) beer to wait this out. got condos? toronto has about 50,000

Comment by AK-LA
2007-10-20 06:28:34

CleanFace, I just moved to Toronto. (No, I won’t buy a condo.) What’s your sense of the housing bubble here, where are we on the boom-bust curve? I am having a hard time getting information on it here, I just see the insane prices.

Even if everyone was moving here, I don’t think everyone can afford $400k for a 1BR condo.

 
 
Comment by CleanFace
2007-10-19 22:40:26

test

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-19 14:59:05

Tanstafl

“The nation should learn from this crisis that government cannot make us rich; it can only make some rich at the expense of everyone else.”

Comment by combotechie
2007-10-19 16:45:27

When someone gets sumtin’ for nutin’, somebody else gets nutin’ for sumtin’.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-19 16:46:47

zackly

 
Comment by exeter
2007-10-19 18:23:49

You just described the average worker/corporate slave master relationship perfectly.

 
 
 
Comment by kThomas
2007-10-19 15:07:03

Frothy in Vietnam. How funny. Countrwide over there, too?

Comment by John
2007-10-19 18:07:58

Over there I think it’s “CommyWide”. But all kidding aside, I’ve been there and they are definitely nice people there. But in general asians love gambling & property and make our “flippers” look modest.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-19 15:16:54

“Only four houses over $300,000 were sold in September, and Mr Watson said buyers were being cautious. He said the slow sales weren’t confined to Wanganui. ‘’People aren’t prepared to take the risk of a high mortgage. It’s happening right across New Zealand.’”

Their entire real estate market is a country the size of Colorado, with 4 million people.

This is a good housing bubble to watch, a tempest in a teapot.

Comment by peter wiener
2007-10-19 22:40:07

You forgot stuck in the middle of the ocean where most goods must be imported, your exports consist of foodstuffs and your housing prices reflect none of the forgoing and are INSANELY HIGH!

Comment by nhz
2007-10-20 03:30:09

talking about imports: NZ home prices most of all reflect the Yen carry trade; the import cost of money is way too low …

Comment by nhz
2007-10-20 03:36:02

should have said ‘import cost of credit…’

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Comment by KiwiPeasant
2007-10-19 22:51:56

A really extreme tempest in a teapot. Cracks in the real estate hysteria are only just starting to show. News from all over the country is that the number of sales is way down, but prices haven’t dropped - looks like the bottom layer has fallen out of the market, and we’re in the calm before the storm. My parents retired to Wanganui about 18 months ago, built a three-bedroom. All around them are brand new mcmansions, and they’ve said that one sold recently for more than $400,000. Thing is, the only reason to go anywhere near Wanganui is to retire somewhere warm and relatively cheap. The place is nicknamed WangaVegas because it’s so boring. It’s a dull, industry-less, job-free hellhole infested with gangs and lowlife. It used to be quite a large city, but went into a huge recession and decline from the 60’s onwards and has never recovered. The place completely missed the 80’s development boom, and if you walk around and look at the buildings it’s obvious that the peak was in the 20s and 30s. On the outskirts of town they’ve got bulldozers in all over the place putting in whole new suburbs of $350,000 houses, even though there is already more pre-60’s housing stock than there is population to live in it. How extraordinarily surprising that the expensive stuff isn’t selling.

 
 
Comment by stanleyjohnson
2007-10-19 15:18:41

How about this … median $/sqft of a Peninsula (zip 90274) home in the time period of
4/07 - 9/07 is $583/sqft. If it’s more than that for the time period of
4/08 - 9/08 you buy me dinner, if it’s less than that I buy you dinner :)

I’ve marked it in my calendar to call you on 10/2/2008 :)

Would this be a safe bet for me? Granted one has to wonder where the realtor got $583 a square foot.

 
Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 15:22:37

Bernanke cut rates, we got a bull run, guess the market shook that off.

What now Ben? Going to fire all your bullets?

Comment by VT_Dan
2007-10-19 15:29:34

Black monday? or dead cat?

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 18:58:54

Dead cat is in the bag :-)

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2007-10-19 15:50:05

Why not ? PIMCO’s pimp is already predicting another rate cut next meeting. So much for my interest income evaporating, thanks you lilly livered pansies at the FED.

Comment by nhz
2007-10-20 03:34:43

I guess Mad Cramer is rehearsing this weekend for his next desperate plea to the Gods from the FED, as soon as the … maybe they can arrange to air it worldwide this time on all channels, and at the peak of the performance (when the PPT has taken full positions) have clown B-52 announce that the FED will drop rates to 0 …

 
Comment by snake charmer
2007-10-20 07:35:55

Another interest rate cut would be like an exhausted person eating a couple of chocolate bars, or getting an adrenalin shot, to keep going. Any burst of energy will be short-lived, and recovery, presuming it happens, will take longer than it otherwise would have.

Comment by Cassandra
2007-10-20 10:11:02

Just one thin mint.

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Comment by joe momma
2007-10-19 15:57:33

The rate cut didn’t work. I guess we need another one. Hey, Japan went to zero. We will too.

And then what?

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 19:11:51

Then the Fed will be pushing on a string. And savers will be putting their money under the mattress, rather than risking bank runs.

Comment by nhz
2007-10-20 03:38:17

… and then the FED / IMF will introduce a NEW dollar, so all those dollars under the mattress (and maybe those in offshore accounts?) are worthless. We had a round of that in Europe with the Euro introduction, and it worked wonderful to scare all the little savers out of their cash (black/grey) money. No chance to exchange serious amounts of old currency for new euro’s unless you are a big fish or a criminal.

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Comment by dimedropped
2007-10-19 16:29:06

In the Marine Corps we had a saying, ” when in doubt empty the magazine.” BB has a single shot BB gun in this gunfight.

Comment by Not Mssing It
2007-10-19 16:50:05

Yeah and it’s the daisy model that takes 20 pumps LOL

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2007-10-19 20:43:54

He’ll shoot his eye out.

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Comment by Mo Money
2007-10-19 17:04:34

Ralphie, you’ll put your eye out !

 
 
 
Comment by SMF
2007-10-19 15:32:44

ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I know where I can invest my hard earned dollars!!!!

Any place but the US should be able to give me double digit returns!!

(Hmm…where have we heard about ‘it’s special here’ before? This is dejavu all over again. And literally all over. We have years to go before it is all settled.)

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2007-10-19 15:46:43

That’s what I was thinking with this one…..

“Rafael Pacheco, the Housing Director, said the figures showed that Spain was experiencing a ‘gradual and gentle landing for house prices. You cannot speak of a crisis,’ he said.”

Man that sounds familiar……haven’t we heard that somewhere before?

Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2007-10-19 17:40:13

Well, long before he uttered those silly words *as in months before) others have noted some very serious problems in the Spanish real estate market. Perhaps he’s the Spanish government’s official equivalent to the NAR spokesman here.

 
Comment by Big V
2007-10-19 18:04:18

Well, do they have freedom of speech in Spain? Maybe he just means that you’ll be whisked away in the middle of the night if you dare to speak of the crisis.

Comment by dan
2007-10-19 19:21:05

You mean to Guantanamo? Last time I checked it was the US that whisks away people in the middle of the night, not Spain. Hombre.

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Comment by nam
2007-10-19 23:42:52

Nope, but you will be whisked away to one of Madrid’s ghost new built exburbs.

I think the bubble has burst in Spain and the government (and all the financial/economic lords) are hoping, praying (and they are atheists!) for a soft landing. 2008 is election year in Spain too, they won’t (under any circustances) admit even the existence of a housing bubble until after the elections and then they will just try to patch the problem (ie help the financial makets).

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 19:00:29

Properly translated, Pacheco’s statement says that the Spanish house price landing is contained.

 
Comment by peter wiener
2007-10-19 22:45:55

You mean you all missed his comments a month or two ago where he said a housing decline, let alone a crash was unthinkable and impossible in Spain. As I understand it, he is the top economic advisor to the leader of the country and has great esteem in government circles. Spain is f*****d.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2007-10-20 07:37:13

Is David Lereah doing consulting work for the Spanish government?

 
 
Comment by nhz
2007-10-20 03:40:59

well, you can still invest in the Netherlands, about the only housing market that is still climbing significantly. You will be buying after 1000% appreciation, but why worry … the Dutch government assures us that Dutch home prices can only go up; they will gladly spend the whole government budget and then some to keep their promise.

 
 
Comment by IUnknown
2007-10-19 15:32:44

Anyone notice the sad state ofthe Dollar vs. Loonie?

The mighty greenback is now worth 0.9663 cents in Canada.

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-19 15:34:50

Then why aren’t they buying up all these “cheap” condos and houses in Florida and Arizona?

Comment by Mo Money
2007-10-19 15:41:46

1st need to corner the market on Molson Ale and Labatts Blue !

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-10-19 16:26:00

I think they’re reading this blog. And that’s why they’re not buying.

Comment by Ed Bear
2007-10-19 16:29:26

Pretty much. Plus I’m waiting to see how things fall out over here - we’re not going to be immune to the problems.

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Comment by doug r
2007-10-21 10:08:59

They’re trying to sell stuff just over the border in Blaine-which still has prices way lower than Greater Vancouver BC. It all depends on how you look at it. In Washington state, Blaine is the last back corner of the state. In BC, Blaine is just across the border, just 30 odd miles from Vancouver.

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 17:03:50

Because the South Americans are. Kid you not, I was shaken out of my HBB stupor today by some loud, rapid fire Spanish conversation. They were looking at the condo next door. I have no idea which country they were from, not Brazil, because it was Spanish and not Portuguese. But they were looking.

Comment by RoundSparrow
2007-10-19 21:28:52

Chile has a lot of money (I lived there for 12 months in Arica)

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Comment by snake charmer
2007-10-20 07:49:26

Based on my conversations with people during my last three trips to Latin America, as well as my experiences living there, am extremely comfortable asserting that both the number of wealthy Latin Americans, and their desire to own property in the United States, are grossly exaggerated. On the other hand, the number of Americans looking for a geographical exit strategy south of the border is increasing every day.

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Comment by peter wiener
2007-10-19 22:52:02

cause we’d rather spend our money in Canada so we can pay more taxes here
no really, after paying 46.4% tax on virtually everything I make as ‘income’ in this country so people can have unlimited free health care, how could I afford the downpayment as a foriegner that would be required to get some financing

 
Comment by AK-LA
2007-10-20 06:36:36

There are a lot of ads in Canada for condos in AZ and FL. And puff pieces on the news of soon-to-be Canadian retirees buying houses in Palm Springs. I have no sense of how many people are actually buying US bubble property, but if the ads are working, it’s substantial.

On the other hand, the US housing bubble is in the news here every day, “…subprime mortgages in the US gave the loonie another boost today…” etc. But that’s followed up by “The strong loonie makes this a great time to invest in US vacation property.”

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-19 15:35:07

Which one was Loonie?

 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-10-19 16:27:52

Chick, you’re just a ray of sunshine today.

 
Comment by rudekarl
2007-10-19 18:04:26

No bubble here - move along. Somehow local cheerleader Steve Brown will try to put a positive spin on this too.

Comment by txchick57
2007-10-19 18:12:54

Hey Karl, be sure and get down to vote in favor of Prop. 1 (deep sixing that toll road thru the Trinity Park). I assume that anything the moneyed elite in Dallas supported, you’d be against, as I am.

Comment by rudekarl
2007-10-20 12:00:19

I’m a fan of Jim Schutze and have been following this since the district court decided that the city didn’t have to stick to the pre-vote advertisements they sent out years ago.

So I’m definitely voting YES. Plus, you’re right, I can’t stand “The Man”.

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Comment by cereal
2007-10-19 15:53:36

Mr Duck said that the suppry shortage would make the ‘plice fever’ rast for a rong time.”

sorry, couldn’t resist

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2007-10-19 16:11:07

Uh-oh, …….now you’ve done it. I’m checkin’ out before the debris starts flying.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 18:09:14

wassa matta you .. make a fun of da way peoplea talk.. i outta slapa you face.

my grandma was scary as hell.. no kidding.

 
 
Comment by Jim
2007-10-19 15:54:04

“Hanoi’s real estate market is heating up day by day with the prices of apartments in luxury areas like Ciputra, The Manor, and Trung Hoa-Nhan Chinh up by nearly 100%. Mrs Hoa, who owns a villa and an apartment at Ciputra, said that she had decided not to sell the apartment at this moment as she thought the price would rise further.”

Could someone from this blog (preferably named Joe) please tell Ms. Hoa that the real estate market doesn’t “love you long time” and she should sell now.

Comment by HARM
2007-10-19 17:24:46

:lol:

 
 
Comment by bayparkwatcher
2007-10-19 15:59:26

Boo-hoo, Yang. You sound just like an American FB. You just HAD to buy a second apartment even though you could barely afford the down payment.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 16:09:49

It sounds like the global liquidity tsunami is washing up on distant shores, accompanied by local policymaker rhetoric that “the U.S. subprime problem cannot happen here.”

 
Comment by sm_landlord
2007-10-19 16:49:15

Who says there is no inflation and no recession?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071019/stretching_paychecks.html

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, …

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 18:18:03

And 7-Eleven says its grocery sales have jumped 12-13 percent over the past year..

wtf .. groceries at 7-Eleven?

Although i agree that we are certainly in the jaws of recession, anyone who has bought food-stuff at 7-11 knows that this is not a sign that people are trying to save money.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-10-19 19:09:12

People can’t afford to drive to the supermarket .

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 19:20:39

yup.. most of them McCrackerboxes are way the hell out there..

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Comment by Van Gogh
2007-10-19 22:09:20

That is a whole lot more real than you think.

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Comment by peter wiener
2007-10-19 22:55:55

Bingo!

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Comment by sm_landlord
2007-10-19 16:58:59

“Yang believes Beijing’s real estate market still has large growth potential compared with international cities like Hong Kong.”

It does, right up until August 25, 2008. After that - the Olympics are over, and Beijing - well, how have previous Olympic host cities done afterwards? Beijing will still be a cesspool, but then with even more crumbling, abandoned buildings, too many people, some of the worst smog on Earth, a water shortage, horrific traffic congestion, you name it.

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 16:59:35

Oh, so that’s what Hank was doing today. Global markets got everyone’s boxers in a wad?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071019/ap_on_bi_ge/finance_meetings

Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 17:15:35

Hank was doing his duty and saying, “All is well. Keep buying stuff.”

He could get a job with the NAR to be YUN and LEREAH’s replacement when this is all over.

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 17:22:49

Here’s the real shocker:

“The finance officials didn’t spell out a specific course of action. Rather, they sought to strike a confident tone that they are on top of the situation. Finance officials also said they will seek to learn the causes and lessons from the turmoil.

“Our response to recent financial turbulence must be based on full analysis of its causes,” the officials said in their statement.”

Jeebus Cripes! They seek to learn the causes and the lessons from the turmoil? These are top “globule” finance officials? I wouldn’t trust them with Monopoly money.

We in a heap ‘o trubble, boyz and girlz.

Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 17:42:22

If they don’t know what happened they they are idiots.

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Comment by LongIslandLost
2007-10-19 18:16:25

I hope that what they mean is “We know that a bailout will reward the banks for acting stupid. We know that doing nothing will drive the politicians crazy. So, we are carefully studying the problem until the banks have finished losing money and they get smart. And, our careful studies will keep the politicians happy.”

Somehow, I don’t think that is what they mean. But, I hope that’s what happens.

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Comment by Big V
2007-10-19 18:20:44

That’s how you know they’re really on to something big. When they “don’t speak of a course of action”. Reminds me of the “extreme reaction” China’s gonna have to King George’s tete-a-tete with the Dalai Lama. I can’t believe the US has stooped this low.

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Comment by vozworth
2007-10-19 18:56:33

Paluson of the US betwixt Germany and Italy, with Japan on the second right….

GERMANY, ITALY, and JAPAN were on the wrong side in WW2…..

and now, we are smack dab in the middle….

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Comment by bizarroworld
2007-10-19 17:01:15

Be afraid. Now the Gang of Seven is involved in the credit fiasco.

Powers vow to limit credit crisis damage
http://tinyurl.com/2jonuf

Is it time to print more paper or just write off bad debt as if it never happened?

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 17:10:35

Geez, bizarro. Great minds thing alike. What’s great about that story is, apparently there’s a concern we “consumers” here in the US might stop buying Chinese crap and stuff like that.

OK, everybody, let’s go on a buying strike. Buy as little as you can and don’t buy anything from Asia. This could be fun. Apparently, our value on the global scene is as “consumers” of crap we don’t need. Time to pull your pockets inside out, shuffle around with your head low and refuse to buy. That’ll teach ‘em.

Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 17:19:36

How about we all live within our means and try and save? Dont take vacations. Dont eat out. That will hurt but others will have to cut back.

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 17:24:26

No Beef O’Brady’s?

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Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 17:32:47

oh darn.. I dont know… Beef’s is good stuff.

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 17:39:22

Ain’t it da trute? I guess I could cut back from twice a month to once, but it’ll hurt. Gotta make a sacrifice for the cause.

By the way, does anyone know if Wall Street has ever been affected by hackers?

 
 
Comment by pos_dude
2007-10-19 18:18:22

I have this problem, the more money I make and save the more my wife wants to spend it. She is like a kid in a candy store.

I try to save for a rainy day, and I see a monster hurricane coming. She thinks I am foolish.

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Comment by doug r
2007-10-21 10:27:24

Don’t take vacations? Don’t you mean “don’t buy worthless crap like plasma tvs that you don’t really need because your ‘old’ 27 inch works just fine?”

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Comment by Vermonter
2007-10-19 17:27:12

I like the strategy of buying as little as possible and getting the rest used. It doesn’t matter where it came from as it’s already “consumed”. No extra packaging to throw away and no sales tax.

Comment by palmetto
2007-10-19 17:32:13

I agree. Most of my stuff is secondhand, although I do draw the line at underwear.

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Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 18:17:56

A guy I know who is a mechanic and works on a lot of day laborers cars (illegals and such) said it has been as slow as it has ever been. He used to be packed with work, now he can’t find anything to fix because the people don’t have money to fix it. In the last few weeks he fixed vehicles to which he still has because they don’t have the money to pay him.

 
 
 
Comment by bizarroworld
2007-10-19 18:56:40

Speaking of consumers, I am doing my part to avoid the race to have the largest tv. I bought a 20′ crt a couple years ago, but I splurged the extra $10 for the flat screen. It’s not easy being the butt of small tv jokes when company visits, but I can’t justify spending $1500 to watch a larger version of bad tv.

Comment by VaBeyatch
2007-10-19 20:28:09

I like movies, but don’t subscribe to cable. 6 years ago or so I purchased for around $1000 from eBay, a CRT video projector. This was before the cheap DLP/LCD projectors. Some company paid $22,000 for it, then excessed it several years later. Hopefully I can get the same kind of deal on a house. But till then, I dig the 120″ picture. I drive it with a computer, and all content comes from DVDs or various digital media files. No cable TV or any of that. I hope to move to Linux on the computer and get it to show Bloomberg and other quality video feeds fullscreen. The downside to any projection setup is it is no good during the day, so it restricts my couch potato to sundown to sunrise.

I love nice toys, I just get them all from eBay and craigslist so my money goes much farther.

It will be nice when this can be done with housing.

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Comment by jinwnc
2007-10-19 21:26:38

I just bought a 52′ from a FB going into forclosure for $500, like new.

The toys are coming cheap!

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Comment by vozworth
2007-10-19 19:31:01

its almost impossible to purchase anything without little chinese fingers all over it.

Comment by VaBeyatch
2007-10-19 20:30:23

Older equipment from eBay. For electronics, I tend to cling to industrial / professional equipment. Generally the service life is long, and you can get good deals depending on what you are after.

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Comment by RoundSparrow
2007-10-19 21:35:10

Go start a factory. Most Japanese cars are made here now. If you have cash, taking advantage of the weak dollar is a smart long-term move.

Assuming we all survive the Tsunami.

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Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2007-10-19 18:35:25

“Finance officials also said they will seek to learn the causes and lessons from the turmoil.”

Advice to all you “expert” finance officials: All you have to do is to start reading the posts on this blog.

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 18:57:10

They could learn much by reading the current edition of The Economist. The lens of history will shine favorably on this magazine for keeping its unbiased perspective on the credit crunch while central bankers spun implausible lies.

The world economy
Lessons from the credit crunch

Oct 18th 2007
From The Economist print edition
Central banks have worked miracles for 30 years. Don’t count on that continuing

http://economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9988758

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 19:03:40

It backfired, as investors took the unintentional message that the brown stuff has contained the rotating blade.

WASHINGTON - Finance officials from the world’s top economic powers pledged Friday to do all they can to limit damage to the global economy from a jarring credit crisis as Wall Street took another plunge.

Comment by nhz
2007-10-20 03:46:48

exactly, just look what happened before Black Friday … we have a nice setup for a 20th anniversary celebration this monday …

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2007-10-19 17:15:57

Yeeeeehaaaw! What a week!

Comment by vozworth
2007-10-19 19:28:28

nary a bank went under, yehaw.

 
 
Comment by fla to pa
2007-10-19 17:19:31

Give me a Lever large enough and I will move the world.

Give me enough LEVERAGE and I will destory the world as we know it.

Main Entry: 1le·ver·age

Function: noun
Date: 1830
1 : the action of a lever or the mechanical advantage gained by it
2 : power, effectiveness
3 : the use of credit to enhance one’s speculative capacity

Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 18:54:24

How about virtually unlimited leverage coupled with opacity and immunity from regulatory oversight? Such financial entities are known as hedge funds.

Comment by fla to pa
2007-10-20 05:58:43

Exactly!! all of this not about the loans themselves but the leverage on the the bundeled loans.

Take a bunch of loans put the together and lever them up by 10 and sell a bond make fund what ever, then take a bunch of already levered loans from the first batch bundel them and sell another bond and lever that up by 10. Now your talking 100 to 1 levearge and some real money. Each 100K now becomes 10million. So each 250k house loan is now a hidden 25million debt on someones book.

I am a sloooow learner but Wow!! this is some really bad debt!
No rate cut will get this repaid.

Going global, the Fed and hedge funds. The worst ideas ever!

 
 
 
Comment by OB_Tom
2007-10-19 17:28:03

I guess we all knew this, but HBB hero Christopher Thornberg’s views didn’t please UCLA Anderson Forecast’s sponsors (Warning! juicy gossip!):

http://www.beaconecon.com/people/press/ContraCostaTimes101907.pdf

“Leamer, director of the UCLA Anderson Forecast, declined to be interviewed.
Thornberg said he has a lot of respect for Leamer, but they had problems over conflicting views about the future of real estate. “It reflected things about him that are not very pleasant,” he said.
Thornberg, at the end of his run at the UCLA Anderson Forecast, was known for making caustic comments to critics and the media.
“I just think he’s too negative all the time,” said Paul Ward, a broker associate at Keller Williams Realty in Danville, who most recently took offense when Thornberg called the real estate market “abysmal.” “If
anyone listened to him (Thornberg) in 2003, they would have lost out on a lot of money,” Ward said.”

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2007-10-19 17:45:24

Does anybody know what the future traders are predicting for the Fed? I remember somebody said at the beginning of the week they were betting against a cut.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2007-10-19 17:47:16

Nevermind, found it :

U.S. short term interest rate futures showed the perceived chance of a 25 basis points rate cut at the Fed’s next regularly scheduled policy meeting have risen to about 68 percent, from about 54 percent late on Wednesday.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 18:26:57

two cuts before xmas are in the bag .. and if anyone asks, you didn’t hear it from me.

Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 18:32:48

Does this mean the Grinch will steal Christmas when no one will be able to buy cheap chinese crap with their plunging dollars?

How exactly is this going to save the economy?

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 18:48:48

save the economy? more like do whatever possible to try and slow the descent..

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2007-10-19 18:20:37

“‘It’s a chance to get in before prices go up,’ says DCG marketing director Suzanne Gryspeerdt. ‘’It’s about to take off.”

Tell us how you know this JACKASS. Show us your forecast and methodology or STFU.

Comment by Neil
2007-10-19 22:29:45

Did anyone see those old rocket movies from the early space program where the rocket lights but then buckles and falls down upon itself; the end result being an engulfment in an exploding fireball? That is the type of take off we can expect.

I agree this salesperson should STFU. At this point, that is just fraud trying to claim that.

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by Tom
 
Comment by NOVA
2007-10-19 18:36:45

Supposedly Countrywide couldn’t make payroll today…
source: http://excwinsider.com/?p=12#comments

Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 20:39:15

I thought they had all that Bank of America money that was infused?

 
Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 20:51:14

They can’t make payroll because of the massive loan buy backs they are being forced to take. They are essentially a toxic waste dump.

 
Comment by Neil
2007-10-20 01:02:05

That was clever… mail checks to delay payday by a few days. Per the link, HR is in India. Are they mailing from India to buy a few more days float? ;)

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2007-10-20 01:33:36

“The fact is that the company loosened up credit, gave liar loans to those they KNEW did not qualify, I know because my managers try to do so, and I turned them in.

The puzzling thing is that after reporting millions of dollars in kickbacks to family members of this management, the Company stated it was okay, to commit fraud on 1000’s of Southern California customers and now has the nerve to ask the government for help and even more nerve to deny any wrongdoing EVER. “

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 18:52:14

“The Spanish Government yesterday played down fears of a crash. Rafael Pacheco, the Housing Director, said the figures showed that Spain was experiencing a ‘gradual and gentle landing for house prices. You cannot speak of a crisis,’ he said.”

There is not a crash, and not a housing crisis on the Iberian Peninsula. It will turn out to be more like a gradual and gentle landing for house prices that suddenly went POP!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-10-19 19:10:03

“The nation should learn from this crisis that government cannot make us rich; it can only make some rich at the expense of everyone else.”

Well d’oh! And the some who are made rich can swell the campaign coffers of the govt officials who bailed them out. Welcome to 21st century American political economy.

 
Comment by measton
2007-10-19 20:02:43

why haven’t gas prices shot up with rapidly rising oil prices
1. Is this a sign that the economy is crumbling?
2. Is it an effort by corporate America or our government to prop up the house of cards??

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 20:21:20

as I understand it, oil is denominated in USDollars. Since the dollar is weak and weakening compared to many foreign currencies, foreign countries see oil as cheap and becoming cheaper. They therefore take advantage of the bargain price and buy more oil.

That raises global demand for crude oil and causes an increase in it’s price. Oil futures also rise on the prospect of a weak dollar. Eventually, if/when the dollar stabilizes, or demand levels off, the price will level out.

Gasoline and heating oil are examples of refined products derived from crude oil. The price of those is not determined by the dollar’s trading value since they are produced in the country in our refineries, and sold here. Their price is determined by local supply and demand.

Evidently, gasoline supply is adequate with refineries currently able to keep up with demand, and demand has been relatively mild since the end of the summer driving season.. so prices are somewhat stable for the time being..

Comment by measton
2007-10-19 21:47:01

What percentage of the cost of a gallon of gas is related to oil. I mean it does take oil to produce gas. My guess is excluding taxes the majority of it. I know gas station margins a very small, and refinering margins on a barrel of oil might run in the 20dollars/barrel range ie 15-20%. About half a barrel of oil becomes gasoline. My guess is 50-75% of the price of gas is directly related to oil . Thus if oil goes up 40-50% gas prices should not fall.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-19 22:23:08

Actual costs are no doubt proprietary, and information is not shared unless doing so is required by law. You may be close with your estimate. As far as taxes, i did read somewere that total taxes, local, state and fed, on a gallon of gasoline exceeds Oil Co. profit on that gallon.

The amount of gasoline produced from a barrel of crude can be (and is) adjusted according to whatever targets are most profitable… if gasoline price or demand is low, a larger percentage of a barrel can be processed in a way that produces more desireable chemicals. And, the individual markets for those many various chemicals, waxes, asphalt, plastics, and lots of other compounds fluctuates as well.

The US also drill, extracts and sells some oil overseas, which impacts prices here and abroad.. sometimes a tanker full of crude oil is bought, sold and changes ownership several times during it’s trip across some ocean… and again while in port.. without ever being unloaded.

all i know is it’s the entire picture is complicated way beyond my comprehension and, imo, questions about the finer points should be asked of trustworthy professionals or answered by careful, painstaking study..

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Comment by Cliss
2007-10-19 20:07:07

I’m still amazed at how everyone completely bought in to the real estate bubble. Prices kept going up, year after year. No one ever questioned the “realness” of it, whether it was ever going to end. Worst of all: they thought it was because of their “cleverness” or “smart business decision” to buy that house, and watch it go up in value. To me, the most sinister part of this ILLUSION was that people actually believed that it was something they DID to create that wealth.
How can wealth come from not doing anything, other than owning a home.
That’s what most people are having the toughest time facing right now. They simply cannot believe that it’s actually come to an end.
These are some of the conversations I’ve heard - for years now:
“That was a good move to buy our house. It’s worth twice as much now”.
“I knew it was going to go up in value”
“It was a smart move we knew it all along”
“We were willing to sacrifice a lot to get into that house because it was going to triple in value”.
“Real estate always goes up it never goes down”
And now?
Things are awfully quiet around the water cooler at the office. The smugness is gone. Instead, you see trembling hands reaching for the cup of coffee. Silence.

Like a receding tide.
The worst part of the storm hasn’t hit yet. I know a lot of people who are worried, but they are not concerned about the housing bubble breaking. The’ve got a decent mortgage, with a good interest rate. They didn’t get one of those sub prime mortgages, and they didn’t use their home as a Piggy Bank.
They’re fairly solid financially, even though things are getting tougher to survive.
Here’s the worst part: ALL HOMES are going to go down in value. All of them. The subprime mess is going to affect ALL real estate, even in areas which haven’t been so much affected like some chronic areas. Like Arizona, Southern CA, Florida.

 
Comment by housing hanky panky
2007-10-19 20:26:34

Countrywide Financial Corp (NYSE:CFC)…15.19-0.04 / -0.26 after hours.

Tell me again………….who bought all those shares @ $18

Comment by Tom
2007-10-19 20:43:25

And the Wall Street Journal was calling BofA CEO Ken Lewis a genius.

Or, how about this one on CBS Marketwatch.

http://tinyurl.com/35xqkr

 
 
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