October 22, 2007

Still Too Much Air In The Market

The Enquirer reports from Ohio. “Owners of low- to mid-priced houses aren’t the only ones losing their homes to foreclosure in Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky. Expensive homes are falling into foreclosure, too. Thirty-two homes valued at $200,000 or more were scheduled for sheriff’s sale between Oct. 11 and Nov. 15. Fifteen were valued at $300,000 or more.”

“Of those, at least six owners or their spouses were involved in the mortgage banking, property title, real estate or home-building industries.”

“Robert Goering is a bankruptcy lawyer and Hamilton County treasurer, responsible for initiating foreclosure proceedings against owners who don’t pay their property taxes. He says it stands to reason that those who made the most money off the booming real estate cycle are now most vulnerable in the bust.”

“‘Realtors, for example. Realtors were making big money and have nice expensive houses, and then the housing market went the other way,’ he says.”

“Likewise, he says, investors could be stuck with mortgages on houses they planned to fix up and sell. ‘If you can’t rent them or sell them, then you’re in big trouble,’ Goering says.”

“On the outside, 4-year-old Regency Park in Hamilton Township offers everything Middle America wants: New, three-bedroom homes with an average appraised value of $151,000 that people can afford.”

“But on the inside, some suburbanites are hurting. Seven percent of homes are or have been in foreclosure, their owners caught by escalating mortgage rates or tough economic times.”

“Tim Armstron has watched more than one neighbor move out in the middle of the night. One even left his car behind for the repo man. ‘My neighbor was in foreclosure. There’s one across the street and more around the corner. It’s a real problem out here,’ he says.”

“Armstrong is anxious about his own situation, too. More than two years ago, he refinanced his house with an adjustable-rate mortgage. The rate began to climb after 24 months, and in the spring his payments jumped $400 a month to $2,100.”

“‘I kind of brought it on myself - I didn’t read the fine print,’ he says.”

“He’s trying to refinance, but he’s worried that neighborhood property values have fallen. Financial institutions have told him they won’t write him a new loan for the $160,000 he owes on his house.”

The Beacon News from Illinois. “In the Chicago area, housing prices stayed flat in more than half of neighborhoods and suburbs and dropped significantly in one-third of those areas, according to Chicago Magazine.”

“Kevin and Earleda Parrishs’ one-time home remained on the market for about six months after the family was sent packing. The family bought the house for $169,900 in spring 2005. After it was repossessed, note holder Fannie Mae put it on the market for $158,900, Earleda said. The home eventually was sold, but only after the price was knocked down to $149,500.”

“‘Home builders were extremely aggressive to fulfill Wall Street expectations,’ said Hugh Smeed, VP of community development for Naperville-based Crown Community Development. ‘They continued to build housing even after the market started to deteriorate.’”

The Courier News from Illinois. “In just a 20-day period in September, the number of foreclosed properties in Elgin increased 15 percent to 153. Of that number, neighborhoods in the southwest and northeast sides of the city showed the highest concentration of foreclosed homes.”

“On one street alone, Wilcox Avenue on the city’s southwest side, six homes in a span of four blocks have been foreclosed upon. On Moseley Street, a few blocks east, are four more.”

“Elgin has had 516 foreclosures from the beginning of the year until the end of September, a 42 percent rise from last year’s number of 363 over the same period.”

“‘I have at least one or two cases every week of someone who is unable to make (mortgage) payments and they’re thinking just to let it go, and to allow the bank to take over the house because they can’t afford the payments,’ said Elgin City Councilman Juan Figueroa.”

“Christen Wiggins, a director at the nonprofit organization Neighborhood Housing Services in Chicago, said it was estimated that for every house foreclosed in Chicago, the value of the surrounding homes have dropped by around 1 percent.”

“‘If you are living on a block that has a lot of foreclosures, you’re seeing your own property values go down,’ she added.”

The News Democrat from Illinois. “A record number of properties are being repossessed in St. Clair and Madison counties, and signs indicate that it could get worse.”

“The St. Clair County circuit clerk’s office has processed about 1,200 foreclosures so far this year and is on pace to surpass the total of 1263 reported in 2006. Madison County foreclosures are also on the rise with 896 having been recorded so far this year. Three years ago, that number totaled 958. By last year, it had soared to 1,278.”

“‘I don’t think that people actually understand,’ said University of Illinois professor Lynne Dearborn. ‘A lot of people are getting into a mortgage without having enough information. The lenders are not the culprits. It’s a series of events. People that are in foreclosure often do not realize what they did. It’s of their own doing. They think that they knew everything, but they do not realize there was more to know.’”

The Capital Times from Wisconsin. “As VP of commercial lending at M&I Bank in Madison, Dennis Sandora is on the front lines of the local real estate scene. And Sandora doesn’t see much hope for a quick end to the housing slump, which has brought construction of new homes to a standstill and left financial markets reeling.”

“‘I’m afraid we’re still at least three years out,’ Sandora said Wednesday during a conference titled ‘Reacting to a Troubled Real Estate Market.’ ‘It’s going to get worse before it gets better, especially on the residential side,’ he predicted.”

“Madison landlord Fred Mohs, who was active in buying distressed properties in the early 1980s, still sees too much air in the market. ‘We’re nowhere near the bottom,’ said Mohs. ‘I’d say we’re five years away from a turnaround.’”

“M&I’s Sandora said the glut of homes on the market here should eventually translate into falling prices. ‘I know there are entire subdivisions that haven’t had a sale all year,’ he said. ‘Builders are just sitting on things.’”

“Attorney Harvey Temkin noted that sale of developable farm land in the area has also slowed to a trickle, but prices haven’t yet come down. ‘Vacant land was very hot here just a year ago,’ he said. ‘Now, nothing is selling but we haven’t seen anything repriced.’”

From WTMJ in Wisconsin. “There is a crisis in Milwaukee. There are almost three dozen foreclosures everyday and the problem is getting worse. Last year 46 percent of homeowners who bought homes in the city used sub prime lenders.”

“‘It’s been called an epidemic; it’s been called a tsunami. It’s a crisis and it seems to be getting worse,’ Bethany Sanchez, a Fair Housing Advocate said.”

The Gazette Extra from Wisconsin. “Despite the nationwide housing slump, developer Tom Keller said he’s pushing full speed ahead to find tenants and businesses to occupy Fulton Square, the $6.1 million project that broke ground this week in Edgerton (and) will include 26 one- and two-bedroom condominiums.”

“‘Obviously, the market’s a little slow, right now, but I think at the end of the day it’s going to rebound,’ he said. ‘If you wait for the market to get better, you might be too late.’”

The Pioneer Press from Minnesota. “For those tracking the Twin Cities condo woes, there are about 10,630 brand-new condo units actively being marketed around the metro area, with nearly 11,000 more proposed, a new report says.”

“Author Ryan Jones said it’s unclear how much of that new condo construction is captured by the local Multiple Listing Service, the basis of the official ‘for sale’ inventory. That means there may even be more housing on the local market than the already record 34,000 total listings suggest.”

“As of the third quarter, about 75 percent of the 10,630 units were under construction, and slightly more than half were reported as presold but not closed.”

“Farmers Market Flats developer Brian Sweeney said he’s confident in the project because most of the area’s condo glut is high-end units costing $299,000 to $525,000. They shrunk their units to make them cheaper and more attractive in the current market, Sweeney said, and fit a niche for units priced between $144,000 and $244,000.”

“‘The market is still selling units at that price point,’ Sweeney said. ‘There’s just a glut of $350,000 condos.’”

“When he moved to Grey’s Riverview Terrace three years ago, Christopher Rocco figured the town home association that runs the complex was in good enough shape.”

“He never envisioned the jam Riverview Terrace finds itself in today. The wave of foreclosures sweeping across the Twin Cities has hammered the little community on St. Paul’s West Side.”

“Of the 21 town homes, nine are in foreclosure, according to Rocco, the association’s president. The group can’t fix Riverview’s rotting siding because it has just $37 - plus $5,000 in debt it can’t pay and a ledger filled with unpaid monthly dues and late fees totaling more than $35,000.”

“‘We are on the verge of losing everything,’ Rocco said. ‘It’s a lot of stress.’”

“Minneapolis attorney Patrick Burns said he represents more than 75 homeowner associations in the area, nearly all of them struggling with foreclosures that either the bank initiated or they did themselves because owners hadn’t paid their dues.”

“Rocco said he suspects many of his neighbors had high-interest-rate subprime mortgages, or adjustable-rate mortgages such as the one he had until he and his wife refinanced it last year into a manageable fixed-rate mortgage.”

“‘I think people got in over their heads,’ he said.”

The Star Tribune from Minnesota. “The head of a nonprofit group bought 8 foreclosed houses in north Minneapolis as bidders vied for 300 properties in Minnesota.”

“Dave Flatum, a general contractor from Osceola, Wis., paid $97,500 for a Ham Lake house that last sold for $147,500. Amy Anderkay was the winning bidder at $67,500 on a three bedroom house that had sold for $265,500 a few years ago.”

“Thousands of Americans with checkered credit couldn’t handle higher adjustable-rate payments when rates starting rising last year and walked away from their houses or were forced out by foreclosure. Many big lenders and investors in such mortgages lost millions or went out of business.”

The New York Times on Minnesota. “In the loud, overcrowded hall, the misery of subprime loans, exploding adjustable rate mortgages and slumping sales meant one thing: opportunity. ‘Who’s got $150,000?’ said the auctioneer, Mark Buleziuk, motor-mouthing the sale of a four-bedroom house that he said was worth $234,000. ‘It’s a buyer’s market,’ Mr. Buleziuk urged.”

“‘The market’s really low right now, so you can get a good price,’ said Lori Crook, a food server at Keys Cafe who said she was looking for a place she could fix up and sell. ‘Even if you can’t sell it right away, if you just sit on it and sit on it, it will go up.’”

“Representatives from two big lenders that have been hit hard by the collapse of the subprime mortgage market, Countrywide Financial and Bear Stearns, were on hand to provide mortgages — fixed, adjustable, jumbo or interest-only. Both have been criticized for giving loans too freely, leading to a wave of delinquencies and a rush to sell debt securities backed by those loans.”

“‘This is such a stark and dramatic illustration of how serious the problem is,’ said Ron Elwood, a lawyer at the Legal Services Advocacy Project, which lobbies in the interest of low-income residents.”

“‘The reality is, half the reason 300 homes are being auctioned off is that speculators tried to make a killing and failed to do so.’ Elwood said. In Minneapolis, 55 percent of foreclosures this year involved houses not occupied by their owners, according to county records.”

“But instead of alarming buyers about the risks, the auction of so many foreclosures at once was an invitation to speculators, small and large. Some, including Bryan Kihle and Jim Casha, who bought a four-bedroom house for $145,000, bid without seeing the properties.”

“‘I just looked at the picture and thought if we got it cheap enough, we could rent it for a year, then sell it when the market goes back up,’ said Mr. Kihle, a building contractor.”




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107 Comments »

Comment by Ocean City Guy
2007-10-22 12:47:21

“Of those, at least six owners or their spouses were involved in the mortgage banking, property title, real estate or home-building industries.”

“Robert Goering is a bankruptcy lawyer and Hamilton County treasurer, responsible for initiating foreclosure proceedings against owners who don’t pay their property taxes. He says it stands to reason that those who made the most money off the booming real estate cycle are now most vulnerable in the bust.”

“‘Realtors, for example. Realtors were making big money and have nice expensive houses, and then the housing market went the other way,’ he says.”

I can’t count the number of “seller has a real estate liscense” homes for sale in this area, they’re everywhere. It seems realtors, LO’s, and others in the industry played a big part of the hyperinflated home prices in this area too. Can’t wait for it all to shake out.

Comment by Devildog
2007-10-22 13:05:20

I know of many cases where the realtors were useless middle-men. They would sign pre-purchase agreements with builders, wait for the house to be built mark it up 35% of what they signed for and flip it to someone else, without ever paying out any of their own money except the initial deposit that they got back.

As far as I’m concerned people like that are parasites and the world would be better off without them.

Comment by amy repo girl
2007-10-22 14:00:50

I remember 60 minutes did a piece on a realtor in Miami, Florida, whose name escaped me right now. But the guy was boasting that he sold hundred of millions of RE. I hope that 60 minutes will do a follow up on this guy; the media did its part in pumping up the RE by doing very shallow and stupid shows, without any in depth analysis at all. I just hope that they would do some equally dumb shows to deflate the bubble.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-10-22 14:15:03

There’s quite a number of such houses in Tucson. Another variant on this theme is the real estate agent-owned house that can’t be sold, so now it’s being rented.

 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2007-10-22 12:48:08

‘Still Too Much Air In The Market”

That is why the balloon is still up. Hardly 10% of the air has come out of it.

Jas

 
Comment by nam
2007-10-22 12:49:53

BP will move 3300 jobs (high paid jobs) out of Naperville Il.
1000 traders will move to downtown Chicago (next to the commodities exchanges), the other 2300 jobs will be transferred to Houston or just laid off.
I think BP is the first or second employer in Naperville; 3300 represents a little more of half their current employees in their campuses in Naperville-Warrenville.
I hope realtors won’t say now that Naperville is a highly desirable place to live (hence very expensive) because there are a lot of high-paid jobs.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2007-10-23 09:25:25

That’s okay. In the New Economy, we will all work at Wal-mart or Mcdonalds, selling things we can’t afford to buy (but we can rent on credit!) Lots of fun that will be…

 
 
Comment by crisrose
2007-10-22 12:52:45

“Amy Anderkay was the winning bidder at $67,500 on a three bedroom house that had sold for $265,500 a few years ago.”

75 percent drop - 15 more to go…

Comment by Devildog
2007-10-22 13:07:38

Yeah, but I bet that house is a dog that needs major work and was never even remotely worth $265k. I smell fraud somewhere in that peak price….

Comment by jag
2007-10-22 13:14:57

I think you’re right Devildog but most people who read that article will only come away with the fact that the price went down 75%…..print enough examples like this (regardless of the underlying details) and you’ll get a whole new psychological “paradigm”, no?

Comment by Devildog
2007-10-22 13:31:06

You, sir, have a point.

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Comment by joe momma
2007-10-22 15:11:15

You need to look at what the price was pre-2000. The bubble sales need to be filtered out.

 
 
 
Comment by veloblues
2007-10-22 12:54:48

“‘I don’t think that people actually understand,’ said University of Illinois professor Lynne Dearborn. ‘A lot of people are getting into a mortgage without having enough information. The lenders are not the culprits. It’s a series of events. People that are in foreclosure often do not realize what they did. It’s of their own doing. They think that they knew everything, but they do not realize there was more to know.’”

Would a fellow HBB’er be kind enough to translate this into English please?

Thanks,

VB

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 13:06:13

Sure the borrowers are to stupid to read what was set in front of them and the borrowers thought the only thing to home ownership was to pay the mortgage. The other expenses to home ownership were never conceptualized.

Comment by JP
2007-10-22 13:21:17

Yes, and she said it in a nice enough manner that an FB might actually heed the words. Actually, it’s a talent that many could use in order to communicate a hard message unwilling recipients.

Comment by JP
2007-10-22 13:22:20

SHeesh… Should have written:

Yes, and she said it in a nice enough manner that an FB might actually heed the words. Actually, it’s a talent that many could use in order to communicate a hard message to unwilling recipients.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2007-10-22 13:31:49

Here, I’ll help you. I must translate idiotese all day long, so I am experienced.

“Bank guys no bad. People stupid. Shi*t happens, like a poo-poo in hand. Suddenly super icky. Me cry from my eyes for sad stupid people. Where my sweater with leather patches on elbows? It make me look smart. Also, want a popsicle now. ”

No, don’t thank me. I exist to serve.

Comment by REhobbyist
2007-10-22 13:55:56

LOL! Thank you for the translation.

 
Comment by bluprint
2007-10-22 13:56:55

Bravo!

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-22 13:37:49

It’s a series of events.

but everything would’a been A-OK were it not for the very last event: Prices got too high and fell.

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2007-10-22 13:50:59

Would a fellow HBB’er be kind enough to translate this into English please?

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah……buyers are stupid,……. blah, blah blah.

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 14:00:55

That is funny, good and true. As I spit cranberry juice over my keyboard.

 
 
 
Comment by Rally Mitigation Team Member Bob
2007-10-22 13:00:14

“There is a crisis in Milwaukee. There are almost three dozen foreclosures everyday and the problem is getting worse. Last year 46 percent of homeowners who bought homes in the city used sub prime lenders.”

46 percent?! Good lord, that puts the housing debacle on a scale that even I couldn’t have imagined in my most cynical daydreams.

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 13:20:01

In Milwaukee, there are many areas where it is possible to buy a nice house, in a safe area for $100K.

These are not McMansions, these are people that want a home to raise a family.

Comment by mikey
2007-10-22 16:42:06

A Nice house + Safe area + for 100k = in Milwaukee ?

Excuse me Hoz, but unless MY definition of Safe or Nice ISN’T relative to your definition of Safe and Nice, something is definitely WRONG with your Milwaukee equation…or What we have is a failure to communicate :)

 
 
Comment by crispy&cole
2007-10-22 13:36:13

NO NATIONAL BUBBLE. Move along…

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2007-10-22 13:00:53

Make note of the Detroit house

http://lasvegas.homevestors.com/ugliest_house/

” Worse, it can take YEARS for such a home to reach the top of the demolition list and during that time they remain a blights on the neighborhood.”

Comment by Devildog
2007-10-22 13:33:45

I see the next get-rich-quick scheme: Municipal house demolition contractor.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-22 13:45:15

Waste management is supposed to be another one of the recession-proof industries..

Comment by easton
2007-10-22 14:13:22

Don’t count on it, construction produces a lot of waste. People shopping produce a lot of waste. If those things crash Waste Management will take a hit as well.

Comment by Pen
2007-10-22 14:18:31

See BFI circa 1990 - 1993

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Comment by Blano
2007-10-22 13:47:12

That’s the worst they could find??? There are plenty of houses around there in worse shape than that one. And if they spend the whole winter doing the interior, they need to be prepared to replace all that stuff more than once.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-22 13:50:59

i was thinkin the same thing.. That outfit doesn’t pick the worst.. they pick the ones that are salvagable. It’s just advertising.

 
 
 
Comment by ridingthewave
2007-10-22 13:05:42

“‘The market’s really low right now, so you can get a good price,’ said Lori Crook, a food server at Keys Cafe who said she was looking for a place she could fix up and sell. ‘Even if you can’t sell it right away, if you just sit on it and sit on it, it will go up.’”

isent this what alot of people are doing right now? talk about repeating the cycle!

Comment by Pen
2007-10-22 14:09:26

About a year ago, I was at a diner, where I somewhat know the staff. Anyway, one of the counter girls was talking the same talk about getting a two family, building equity, etc. I just shook my head, ate my pancakes and thought WTF. Back then, as now, I was done… People don’t want to hear it.

Hear no eveil, see no evil, speak no evil. Anything but the RE only goes up mantra, is evil to them. Here’s is why I think that’s the case. For the something like 90% of the population that makes less than $75k plus, there really isn’t much hope for financial success. There was a day, when you open a hardware store, pizza/sub shop, tailor, cobbler, bait/tackle, etc. and make a decent go of it.

Now, you open J6P carpeting and BAM! you’ve got CARPETWORLD, CARPETKING, etc. putting you out of business.

you open a coffee shop, BAM! STARBUCKS, PANERA, DUNKIN, etc. are killing you.

The decent white collar jobs are going away. Many, many people can’t afford higher ed, so DR, ATTNY, etc. are out.

So, they look at the TV, hear about people cashin’ on RE, and the next thing you know, they’re trying to flip a house or chasing some other job in the only that is truly doing well, where you don’t need a Ivy League degree to make some decent coin.

BTW..no one ver told these people that a good honest job, such as plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc. could make them some money (but that’s my education system failure rant for another day)

Comment by Sobay
2007-10-22 14:51:38

‘ they’re trying to flip a house or chasing some other …’

- This was only possible with ‘100% FINANCING’.
Noother possible way that JoeJuan Sixpack could get that kind of leverage.

 
 
Comment by Mikey(2)
2007-10-22 14:11:42

“‘The market’s really low right now, so you can get a good price,’ said Lori Crook, a food server at Keys Cafe who said she was looking for a place she could fix up and sell. ‘Even if you can’t sell it right away, if you just sit on it and sit on it, it will go up.’”Food server, eh? Must have spent some time in the kitchen learning how to catch knives. Brilliant. Just spoke to my nephew the drug addict; he came into an inheritance and decided to invest it into real estate. The shoeshine boy of our time.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2007-10-22 13:12:54

“Armstrong is anxious about his own situation, too. More than two years ago, he refinanced his house with an adjustable-rate mortgage. The rate began to climb after 24 months, and in the spring his payments jumped $400 a month to $2,100.”

“‘I kind of brought it on myself - I didn’t read the fine print,’ he says.”

Kind of? No Pal you screwed yourself and now you are stuck with a house going down. Kind of sucks does it not?

 
Comment by rocketrob
2007-10-22 13:15:49

This post has so many cliche’s. “Country wide and Bear Stearns” were there for mortgages on the foreclosures, 6 out of 32 foreclosures were involved in RE,the market is really low fight now, and more.

Ben quit it. I’m tire of buying new keyboards!

Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2007-10-22 13:54:11

Yes,
you are right. I saw Bare Sterns Country-wide. I expect the mortgage folks saw them too and saw an opportunity.

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 13:16:16

This blew my mind. Edgertown is not a metropolitan area!!
People are stoopid. (Shaking head all day today, need aspirin.

“‘Obviously, the market’s a little slow, right now, but I think at the end of the day it’s going to rebound,’ he said. ‘If you wait for the market to get better, you might be too late.’”
Prices for the condos will range from $110,000 to $170,000, he said.

The project also will include an underground parking lot for Fulton Square tenants and retailers.

“The advantage is we’re adding 26 residential units to the downtown without the need for public parking,” Keller said.

Keller expects to finish construction by July. As part of the developer’s agreement, the city will provide up to $1.2 million in tax incremental financing for the project.

So there ya have it…the city is helping this village idiot! Jeesh!

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 13:31:49

Hi Leigh, The bet is looking in your favor, but time will tell. Jan 30th? right?

Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 13:35:57

Curtsey Hoz,

The dang thing is I don’t want to be right…but looks like bass-mouth Al is agreeing with me. Now there’s something to be afraid of!

Smiles,
Leigh

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 13:45:53

Mr. Greenspan is doing a CYA. He is a wishy-washy washout. He does not wish to go to jail or even worse to be thought of as incompetent. He will continue to jettison his ‘buddies’, while he stands on their shoulders as they go under. His current program is revisionist history.

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Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 14:44:48

P.S. Yes to Jan 30 : )

 
Comment by auger-inn
2007-10-22 14:54:26

My thoughts exactly. Nice recap

 
 
 
 
Comment by mad_renter
2007-10-22 14:10:28

Well, Edgertown isn’t a suburb mecca or anything, but it is close (enough) to two cities (Madison, Janesville) and close to the Interstate. It also has the benefit of being outside of the Progressive hell that is Dane county and all of the taxes that go along with that.

That being said, condo’s don’t make sense in small towns.

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 14:23:57

If you’re coming up from Boulder
With your skis upon your shoulder
They are stupid to be bringing
Wisconsin’s flatter than my singing
If you’re gonna spend your yule here
Or you plan to stay a school year
It’s a lovely place you’ve chosen
If you like your hinder frozen

Chorus:
Up in Wisconsin, up in Wisconsin
The weather isn’t very nice
Up in Wisconsin, up in Wisconsin
They gotta fish right thru the ice

If you hate the taste of booze
Better bring your runnin’ shoes
Better sneak around discreetly
Or maybe stay away completely
If you’re moving to Wisconsin
And your wife is on the wagon
I feel it’s only fair to warn her
There’s a bar on every corner. (Chorus)

You needn’t be sophisticated
In Wisconsin it’s outdated
With our beer and with our crackers
We sit down and watch the Packers
If you bring your suntan lotion
To go romping in the ocean
You’ll have to swim at Howard Johnson
There are no oceans in Wisconsin. (Chorus)

Lou &Peter Berryman

 
Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 14:26:00

Agree Mad,

It’s not so much that it’s Edgertown, it’s the damn condos! I’m over here in Eagle. We drive east and north at least 3 times a week (looking for acreage). I actually like Edgertown, but adding more units? More retail? I dunno.

Best,
Leigh

 
Comment by Mad Boy
2007-10-22 18:11:52

I was looking in Edgerton earlier this year - more expensive than Janesville and about the same as Madison in spots, but you can get a much larger lots. Driveable to Janesville and Madison - but I don’t see much for employment in Janesville other than GM

I agree, condo’s don’t make sense in a small town - Madison is overrun with condo’s.

But Roy Clark was that the Edgerton Performing Arts Center.

 
 
 
Comment by Judicious1
2007-10-22 13:21:09

I’m beginning to see price reductions in my neighborhood for the first time ever. These are $1M+ homes with ocean views in Redondo Beach, CA that are 10% off the price paid in 2005. The cracks are beginning to show even in the untouchable “better” areas.

Comment by jetson_boy
2007-10-22 13:37:41

I live in one of those ” we’re special” areas of the Bay Area, with broad assumptions that high-paying tech jobs and mysterious foreigners will save prices from falling. Yet just around the corner from me sits a house in foreclosure. Guess it isn’t so… special after all.

Comment by Judicious1
2007-10-22 13:44:09

How is this happening? Right around the corner from me is a short sale on a property purchased two years ago for $1.65M - 132 days on the market at $1.5M and no takers. Short sale? I thought all my neighbors were rich. :)

Comment by jetson_boy
2007-10-22 14:18:31

well… I wouldn’t exactly say that 1.5 mil is a steal by any means. Neither is 1 mil, 800k, 600k, or 450k. Even in my area where prices are at around the Bay Area median, the prices would need to come down at least 50% before I’d even look up. We still have a Loooooong way to go.

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Comment by Judicious1
2007-10-22 14:26:39

I think you missed a few words in my original post:
1. ocean
2. view

(this house is special…you guys can do this!)

 
 
 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2007-10-22 15:21:03

In my little section of the Bay Area, I’ve watched a house list at 850 and drop to 775 as of today. That’s nearly 10%. And the 850 actually had comps to support it earlier in the year, so it’s not a bad tracker. I can’t wait to find out what it finally sells for. My wife and I said we’d put in an offer if it drops below 500k.

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2007-10-22 13:23:57

“Dave Flatum, a general contractor from Osceola, Wis., paid $97,500 for a Ham Lake house that last sold for $147,500. Amy Anderkay was the winning bidder at $67,500 on a three bedroom house that had sold for $265,500 a few years ago.”

Flatum? Flatum? Isn’t that the plural for a Latin fart? I mean, a fart in Latin? Oh, you know what I mean.
Flatus (fla’tus), a breaking wind, a blowing, from the past participle of ‘flare; to blow.

Ben is just making these people and stories up now, for his idle amusement.

Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 13:32:48

Chuckles,
Ya just can’t make this stuff up!
Leigh

Comment by Olympiagal
2007-10-22 13:44:21

Yes, maybe he can! Make it up! I mean, okay–in a thread titled ‘Still too Much Air in the Market’, there’s this poor, poor man named… ‘Dave FLATUM’. Suuuuure.
Now, there really could be someone named ‘Dave Flatum’ walking around the world, in which case he should be mercifully euthanized or else maybe he should consider changing his name, as an alternative. But whatever, my point IS, I consider it improbable that someone named FLATUM would suddenly manifest their existence in the world, on this blog, on this day, in this particularly titled thread.
Unless, of course, the sweet Baby Jeebus just wanted to make me laugh merrily on a tedious Monday. It seems like a lot of effort to go to, though, even for Him.

Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 14:11:30

Sweet Baby Jeebus is indeed throwing sparkling giggles your way Oly!

The second name (And there are more, yes!)

Belly aching laughter,
Leigh

http://tinyurl.com/2f5so7

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Comment by veloblues
2007-10-22 13:39:03

Yes, Ben is making this guy’s name up. Get it: D. Flatum As in “bubble” deflate.

Luv it!

Comment by veloblues
2007-10-22 13:50:27

Of course, I forgot Dave’s wife, Nora. Get it: N, Flatum!

Thank you, I’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip your server.

VB

 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2007-10-22 14:01:06

Truth, stranger than fiction! He does seem to exist. Another case of nominative determinism? Anyway, from the Polk County Sheriff’s Department:
“12/11/04, DAVID FLATUM reported the theft of his Browning semi-automatic rifle from a residence in rural Osceola.”
Among other references on other sites.

Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 14:14:12

I didnt’ do it! I buy my at the gun show!

Chuckles,
Leigh

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Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 13:39:37

Flatum = Downwash(?) or backwash in German

I believe in Latin Flatum is singular.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-10-22 14:24:47

In a post that also relates to air coming out of a balloon, the reference to Flatum(s) is just too much.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-22 13:24:42

“Tim Armstron has watched more than one neighbor move out in the middle of the night. One even left his car behind for the repo man. ‘My neighbor was in foreclosure. There’s one across the street and more around the corner. It’s a real problem out here,’ he says.”

Ode to Creedence…

Early in the evening, just about subprime-time

Over by the courthouse, finances begin to unwind

Four houses ’round the corner, whose time is up

Willy the sheriff picks a house out, and a car engine does the repo man start

Down and out on the corner, out in the street

Willy and the po-lice are playin’

Brings upon, another American Dream defeat

Rooster hits the road and people know that ain’t his style

Blinky, Holds out, pays his mortgage for a while

Poorboys one and all, a crazy economic zoo

Willy goes into a dance and doubles as a sheriff too

Down and out on the corner, out on the street

Willy and the po-lice are playin’

Making foreclosures, oh so neat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltFd35xEXWY

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-22 13:34:49

W-CRAP, in Cincinnati

“Owners of low- to mid-priced houses aren’t the only ones losing their homes to foreclosure in Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky. Expensive homes are falling into foreclosure, too. Thirty-two homes valued at $200,000 or more were scheduled for sheriff’s sale between Oct. 11 and Nov. 15. Fifteen were valued at $300,000 or more.”

 
Comment by MCV
2007-10-22 13:37:43

“Farmers Market Flats developer Brian Sweeney said he’s confident in the project because most of the area’s condo glut is high-end units costing $299,000 to $525,000. They shrunk their units to make them cheaper and more attractive in the current market, Sweeney said, and fit a niche for units priced between $144,000 and $244,000.”

“‘The market is still selling units at that price point,’ Sweeney said. ‘There’s just a glut of $350,000 condos.’”

Soooo, if you put 2 and 2 together Sweeney, you should get the idea that that glut of $350,000 condos will drop in price. When that happens your $144,000 to $244,000 ghetto condos will be competing with bigger better condos.

Hope you have a Large markup priced in…

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-22 13:52:00

it’s a terrific crash, ladies and gentlemen. It’s smoke, and it’s flames now…
Oh The Humanity!

 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2007-10-22 13:53:38

Bryan Kihle and Jim Casha, who bought a four-bedroom house for $145,000, bid without seeing the properties.

Didn’t even see it?! Just went with a picture? Oh boy…
I guess they have no idea how bad some foreclosed properties can be. As in, completely uninhabitable bad. They could get lucky, or this could be a very expensive mistake.

Comment by veloblues
2007-10-22 14:02:09

“Zestimates” in the area were showing values at twice that, so these people scored the deal of the century;-)

 
 
Comment by barbara_7
2007-10-22 14:00:59

Fires Arrive in San Diego

one comment poster is blaming subprime mortgage holders!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/n/a/2007/10/22/state/n102418D66.DTL
one comment poster is blaming subprime mortgage holders

 
Comment by Aqius
2007-10-22 14:06:09

I cant help but notice that the same qualities that led most of us here to this blog are what is lacking in these phuked homeowners:

initiative

sorry but if my house/home was going to require a higher payment of $400 (seems to be the average ARM reset) then by god I’d do whatever it took to pay that modest amount.
I mean, doesnt a 1-2 a day p/t job give you an extra $100 a week? You cant sacrifice a few days a week to make some extra scratch to save the house? the home you live in? the one that took all that time to find, buy, furnish, etc??

people are just effin lazy / at least most (not all) of the ones with increasing ARMs of a modest amt. C’MON people, $400 measly dollars??
Thats probably one less dinner out & no starbucks each month on the way to work.

laziness. just pure laziness. no gumption.

Comment by Pen
2007-10-22 14:16:48

How about some reserves?

For example, $12,000 in the bank, would pay the $400 increase for (wait, let’s see, where is my HP…) ok got it, $12,000 divided by $400 (carry the one, oh wait, that’s a different operator), is 30 months. 30 months is, (back to the HP), 30 months, divided by 12 months, is (using scratch paper now) is 2.5 years.

Now where is the Websters, I need to look up reserves.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2007-10-23 09:45:03

Wait - wait. You still have money in the bank? Money that earns interest? Well, the Federal Reserve will be here to fix that problem. No - no savings allowed! Savers bad!

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-22 14:27:13

huh? A part time job?? but.. but .. The whole point was to be on Easy Street once i snapped up this house. They told me prices would rise forever.. not that I would have to work all day, every day ..forever.

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 14:09:14

“Madison landlord Fred Mohs, who was active in buying distressed properties in the early 1980s, still sees too much air in the market. ‘We’re nowhere near the bottom,’ said Mohs. ‘I’d say we’re five years away from a turnaround.’”

What an Optimist. For the Madison market, I would trust his figures more than any flunky economist.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-10-22 14:34:38

Too much air in the market’s digestive system can lead to…

…Flatus (fla’tus), a breaking wind, a blowing, from the past participle of ‘flare; to blow.

 
Comment by aladinsane
 
 
Comment by Statsman
2007-10-22 14:10:04

Question for the experts:
What will be the impact of the California fires on the mortgages? Does insurance typically pay up to the value of the house (current value?) for replacement? How does this work if the “homeowner” is upside down?

Thoughts anyone?

Comment by Pen
2007-10-22 14:25:21

First, the insurance company will do anything to get out of paying the claim.

If the policy is written to indicate that it covers full replacment/construction costs, then the owners could be in for a long fight. Not to mention all of the other loop holes..

Your house wasn’t destroyed by the flames, it was the heat that did the damage. No , it was the water from the “air drops”. No, it was the wind caused by the convection, caused by the heat, caused by the flames. No, it was an act of God, because of the drought.

My favorite..the value was in the LAND, because of the SPECIAL location that you are in. They aren’t making any more land, you know.

This is not an attack on those who have been burnt out of their homes, but rather an attack on the Insurance Co. that are about the burn them again.

Comment by Pen
2007-10-22 14:47:09

is s/h/b isn’t

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2007-10-22 14:59:55

so.. you’re saying go long on insurance companies ;)

imo, the disaster is gonna take so long to square away, it will have zero impact on the current housing / lending situation, which may be over by the time all these cases are settled.

 
Comment by joe momma
2007-10-22 15:17:52

Amen. We all know it is going to happen too.

 
 
Comment by are they crazy
2007-10-22 14:33:54

I asked that last night. I’m guessing there will be tons of lawsuits against insurers that want to pay out at lower current value. Also, there will be tons of folks that never upped their insurance amount when values went up that will now not get enough to rebuild.

 
Comment by Leighsong
2007-10-22 14:41:23

Hi States,

One of the most horrific experiences of my life was a fire in 1991.

(Shudders)

We were lucky (oh that sounds soooo wrong) to have the right insurance product at the time…100% replacement (and that’s largely due to ignorance).

I suspect (hope) people in fire prone areas take the same type of insurance out, but honestly, I don’t know. If the taxes and mortgage are high, seems like many would go cheap on insurance?

Best,
Leigh

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2007-10-22 19:20:45

I heard on the news today, one of the insures had stopped writing home owner insurance policies in CA. Reason given is too many natural disasters occur in this state. Arrgh, I can’t remember the name of the insurance company. I also thought I heard that fire insurance in CA is through the state of CA, not through insurance companies.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2007-10-22 19:21:59

insures = insurers

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-22 14:27:14

Blues Brothers, version 2.007

“‘The reality is, half the reason 300 homes are being auctioned off is that speculators tried to make a killing and failed to do so.’ Elwood said. In Minneapolis, 55 percent of foreclosures this year involved houses not occupied by their owners, according to county records.”

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 15:12:04

And the other half are being auctioned off because the occupiers couldn’t make mortgage payments after the divorce.

 
 
Comment by Eric
2007-10-22 14:37:27

“Expensive homes are falling into foreclosure, too. Thirty-two homes valued at $200,000 or more were scheduled for sheriff’s sale between
Oct. 11 and Nov. 15. Fifteen were valued at $300,000 or more.”

LOL!
I wish there were houses considered “expensive” for $300K in California.

Comment by Hoz
2007-10-22 15:23:13

In a few years, $300K for a house may seem expensive in California. That is only a 70% drop from todays $1M joke.

 
Comment by OK_Land_lord
2007-10-23 01:44:56

Just because people in California pay a higher price, does not make the house exspensive.

A person in CA buys a horse for 200k, and everyone says wow that must be a great horse and the owner says “he sure is”, however a person in KS buys a horse for 20k and everyone says “you got a good deal” and the owner says “I sure did”.

Of course the second purchase happend before the first purchase, because the person in KS sold the horse to the person in CA!

Same horse different area.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-10-22 14:45:05

This California wildfire situation could sadly be the catalyst of economic downfall, as the powers that be have been looking for something to blame things on, i’d guess.

This one fell right into their lap~

Be safe out there…

 
Comment by Renterfornow
2007-10-22 15:02:06

“Of those, at least six owners or their spouses were involved in the mortgage banking, property title, real estate or home-building industries.”

Now we know why realtwhores can’t afford for houses to plunge in value. Many are up to their eyeballs in mtg debt . LOL!!!!!!

 
Comment by are they crazy
2007-10-22 15:03:26

Good time to review your home insurance. Here’s one I knew about from living in CA mountains:
A: If your house is more than 20 years old, check the policy to see if it covers building code upgrades. Most polices pay to replace the home exactly as it was–even if it was built at a time that couldn’t stand up to today’s building codes. To get the money to pay for these upgrades, which may include internal sprinkler systems and hard-wired fire alarms, you need a building code rider. On some policies this is standard; others need to have it added.

 
Comment by Renterfornow
2007-10-22 15:05:42

“‘I think people got in over their heads,’ he said.”

Ya think moron homedebtors?
You wanted it and you got it. A big fat foreclosure. lol!!

 
Comment by Renterfornow
2007-10-22 15:07:25

“Madison landlord Fred Mohs, who was active in buying distressed properties in the early 1980s, still sees too much air in the market. ‘We’re nowhere near the bottom,’ said Mohs. ‘I’d say we’re five years away from a turnaround.’”

Fred you do not have a chance in hell of ever getting a job with the NAR cult.

Comment by joe momma
2007-10-22 15:20:33

I’m surprised they even quoted him! It MUST be bad when honest people are quoted in articles.

 
Comment by Graspier
2007-10-22 15:29:04

That because this guy actually has to make a living off of buying property and renting it out, with none of those crazy loans to paper over the fact that someone can’t afford it. He knows what the renters can pay and he knows what the costs of owning are, and right now in most places the two simply don’t add up.

Comment by Pen
2007-10-22 15:39:08

They might not add up, but I bet they sure do subtract out.

 
 
 
Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2007-10-22 15:32:01

“‘The market’s really low right now, so you can get a good price,’ said Lori Crook, a food server at Keys Cafe who said she was looking for a place she could fix up and sell. ‘Even if you can’t sell it right away, if you just sit on it and sit on it, it will go up.’”

“Representatives from two big lenders that have been hit hard by the collapse of the subprime mortgage market, Countrywide Financial and Bear Stearns, were on hand to provide mortgages — fixed, adjustable, jumbo or interest-only.

Hmmm, this is like a frog and scorpion speed dating service, not an auction.

 
Comment by Renterfornow
2007-10-22 16:23:49

“‘The market’s really low right now, so you can get a good price,’ said Lori Crook, a food server at Keys Cafe who said she was looking for a place she could fix up and sell. ‘Even if you can’t sell it right away, if you just sit on it and sit on it, it will go up.’”

You get gettenem girl. Bid’em low real low.

 
Comment by Punchbowl
Comment by nam
2007-10-22 18:20:25

Wow, I wonder what the people, who just bought in their Rte 59 unfinished townhome development at the beginning of October, are going to get! I don’t think the clubhouse and swimming-pool are going to be built. I checked sales in Naperville at the Chicago Tribune every weekend and I thought they were crazy to buy a townhouse for 360k just next to Rte 59 gridlock!
wow…

Comment by sabrina
2007-10-22 18:52:00

Neumann Homes is the fourth largest homebuilder in Chicago (the 59th largest nationwide.) So, nationally, their BK won’t have much impact, but in Chicago it will be HUGE.

Pulte just had a sales “incentive” weekend in the Chicago area where they were handing out $25,000 to $75,000 reductions. Not sure if that was helping them either.

Crain’s reports on Neumann’s bankruptcy: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=26851

“The company has lost more than $60 million in the Detroit market over the past two years, and home prices in some parts of the Chicago and Denver markets have fallen 10% to 25%.”

I thought Chicago was supposed to be a non-bubble part of the country?

Crain’s also reports these scary statistics about the Chicago area for the third quarter: http://chicagorealestatedaily.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=26839

“Though the downturn is deeper and longer than most observers expected, sales are so low that they can’t drop much further, Mr. Cross says. Only 77 of the 817 condo and townhome developments the firm tracks had eight or more sales during the quarter, and 327 either logged no sales at all or suffered a net loss of sales as buyers canceled their contracts.”

327 had NO sales for three months?

It’s getting brutal out there in Chicago.

 
 
 
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