A Very Realistic Expectation For California
The San Francisco Chronicle reports from California. “More than $23.6 billion in California housing wealth will evaporate if real estate prices continue to decline and foreclosures on subprime home loans soar, according to a new congressional report. But some economists, including Jon Haveman, a former senior economist with the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, believes the committee’s findings are too optimistic.”
“‘Things are getting exponentially worse,’ said Haveman, a principal at Beacon Economics in San Rafael. Home prices ‘have only now started to drop. They have a ways to go.’”
“Many economists predict the housing market correction will last several years.”
“‘It took Southern California 10 years to recover (from the last housing downturn), and it took the Bay Area six or seven years,’ said Cynthia Kroll, senior regional economist at the Fisher Center for Real Estate and Urban Economics at UC Berkeley. ‘That’s a very realistic expectation.’”
The Mercury News. “Pinole has a $700,000 house for sale. Bids start at just over half-price. ‘The quaint community of Pinole just 20 miles northeast of San Francisco is about to play host to a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for homebuyers!’ reads a recent news release from Beverly Hills-based auctioneer Kennedy Wilson.”
“On Nov. 3, the company will auction off the last seven unsold new houses at Serita, a 21-house, soon-to-be-gated subdivision just south of San Pablo Avenue at Pinole Shores Drive. Minimum bids range from $385,000 to $435,000 for houses that once had asking prices of $627,900 to $728,900.”
“‘This (bursting of the) housing bubble has not been a secret in coming,’ said Charlie Long, Pinole’s interim city manager. ‘It just took a while to get here.’”
“In the case of Serita, it is ‘hard to know whether this is a beginning of (a) rush to exits or simply some folks leaving the show early to avoid congestion,’ he said. ‘Time will tell.’”
“‘This will do hell with our comparables,’ said real estate broker Sharon Brown, who is also a member of the San Pablo City Council. ‘We don’t appreciate what’s going on, but we understand it,’ she said. ‘The developers have to do something to get rid of this inventory.’”
“Serita resident Ted Diaz said he bought his house four or five months ago. He is not happy about the prospect of lower price tags on the seven remaining houses. But he and possibly other Serita residents might ask DeNova to give them rebates, he said.”
“‘I think that would be a fair thing to do,’ Diaz said.”
The Modesto Bee. “Condo conversions were all the rage a couple of years ago, as seven Modesto apartment complexes decided to sell about 500 rentals as owner-occupied units. The first couple of projects sold like hotcakes.”
“Then the real estate market cooled, and sales slowed dramatically. Now after two years of trying, one of those multifamily projects is giving up on traditional sales methods. Instead, the Villas at Creekside is going to auction off its final 29 units Nov. 18, with bids starting at $100,000 to $130,000.”
“That’s less than half what those town houses sold for in 2005.”
“‘It costs us a lot of money to carry these units every month, and we can’t keep digging ourselves in deeper,’ said Creekside’s co-owner Pat Cannon. ‘We know it’s time to move on, and we’ll take the price we can get.’”
“So any bid over the minimum will be accepted, and no extra sales or auction commissions will be tacked on, but those who buy will have to pay $220 per month in homeowners association dues.”
“Cannon said they must attract as many bidders as possible because if the town houses only sell for the minimum bids, then he and his partners will lose half their investment. So will Doug Hopkins and his family, who bought a Creekside town house last year.”
“‘We paid pretty much double (the minimum bid),’ Hopkins said. ‘The owners already here are going to really lose out.’”
The Fresno Bee. “New homes in three central San Joaquin Valley communities are being put up for auction next month in what is becoming an increasingly common way for builders to unload bloated inventories.”
“Jonathan Homes, based in Patterson, is including 50 houses in Kerman, Madera and Riverdale in an auction set for Nov. 10 at the Fresno Convention Center.”
“‘In order to begin building new communities in the area, we must first close out some of our existing ones,’ said Tom Skraby, president and chief financial officer.”
“Skraby said an auction is the best way to sell multiple properties quickly. The houses are built but haven’t been sold in Riverdale. Bids start at $139,000.”
“Increasingly, builders in the region are turning to auctions to peddle property. The Nov. 10 auction in Fresno comes on the heels of a similar event Oct. 13 and 14 by Anderson Homes. That builder sold 59 houses at two subdivisions in Los Banos and Manteca.”
“The builders are not holding the auctions because they were financially pressed. Rather, the sales are marketing tools.”
“‘Most of them are close-outs. They are toward the tail end of that development,’ said Michael Schack, of Real Estate Disposition Corp., which is selling the houses of Jonathan Homes.”
“This is the second auction in Fresno since July, when 16 bank-owned houses were sold in 45 minutes of feverish bidding at Four Points by Sheraton.”
“Nhung Nguyen bought two houses at the July auction, closing both escrows a few weeks ago. She bid $132,500 for a five-bedroom, two-bath house on Third Street that was listed for sale at $184,900, and $155,000 for a three-bedroom, two-bath house on East Balch Avenue that was listed for $199,900.”
“‘At that time, it wasn’t a bad deal,’ she said. But prices have fallen in the three months since, and the deals don’t appear as good now.” “‘I’ve seen better deals lately,’ said Nguyen, a real estate agent. ‘There are too many houses in inventory and a lot of foreclosures.’”
“Nguyen added $3,000 to her purchase price on the Third Street house after the auction company called and said the lender, who foreclosed on the property, was balking.”
“‘The lender wanted the price to be $145,000 and wasn’t selling it at $132,000. I said, ‘You can keep it.’ Instead, I paid $135,000, plus 5%,’ Nguyen said.”
“Nguyen said she continues to look for investment property because prices are so low, and can find deals without going to an auction. She just paid $225,000 for a house the seller originally bought for $90,000 in 1990. He listed it for sale for eight months at $345,000, couldn’t find a buyer and finally sold it to Nguyen.”
“‘If you really want to invest, this is the best time,’ she said.”
The Orange County Register. “Early October home-selling stats from DataQuick show…sales activity was down 41% vs. a year ago for the 22 business days ended Oct. 12. If that holds, it’ll mean that O.C.’s losing streak will hit 25 straight months where the buying pace failed to meet last year’s activity levels.”
“Pricing was also weak. The overall median selling price, down 8.8% in a year, held at the 31-month low ($570,000) hit last month.”
From KGET.com. “There’s a new problem with real estate foreclosures as some residents have resorted to stripping everything from appliances to door-knobs from foreclosed homes before the houses go back to the bank.”
“17 News has uncovered two cases where the homes that have belonged to former members of the Crisp and Cole Real Estate team. The first home was owned by Jeriel Salinas, a current agent with Crisp Realty.”
“‘When we came in, we noticed that the appliances were missing,’ said real estate agent Susan Ferguson, who said, after walking into a Seven Oaks home, ‘Oops, there’s no stove. Oh wait a minute, there’s no dishwasher. No hang on a minute, there’s a microwave missing.’”
“Salinas stopped making payments on the home, so the lender took it back. Workers at another home said what occured at the Seven Oaks home is a drop in the bucket, saying door handles have been taken before.”
“‘My boss just spent $1,300 replacing the door handles,’ said construction worker Robert Velez.”
“Velez walked 17 News through a million-dollar home formerly owned by Crisp and Cole Real Estate broker Jayson Costa. Velez said business is good.”
“‘We’ve done a lot of foreclosures, and yeah, a lot lot of houses,’ he said.”
$20 billion is too little
Surely $23.6B is a misprint? Assuming a very conservative 1 house per 6 Californians give 5million houses for a whopping wealth evaporation of $4,000 per house? This is what Congress came up with using my tax dollars?? That’s probably the loss every week at this point. Tell me this is an error.
I can’t think in terms of Billions, and it appears neither can CONgress.
Nobody can. Think in terms of billions, I mean. Our little ape brains can only go up to, like 5, or else a dozen, if we are extra advanced on the monkey tree. That’s how we evolved, and I was reading about it, and boy, do I believe it. Look around you–do you doubt it? Come on, creationists–give me a reason you think Jeebus trusts us with numbers.
Anyhow, ‘a billion’ is just ‘a lot’.
Even God himself quit making things when he got to six.
Urrp. (Putting down the beer.) Now THERE’S an answer! Huh? Huh? Yeah!
Regarding the 8.8% drop, where is Gary Watts. I thought price drops “weren’t even in the holding pattern, If we get a strong tail wind, we’ll be up 10% for 2007″.
Another 10% next year should finally put Gary out to pasture.
we have Fuller here near dc- people actually pay to hear him even though he’s been wrong for 2 years
“Pricing was also weak. The overall median selling price, down 8.8% in a year, held at the 31-month low ($570,000) hit last month.”
Since the price held at the 31-month low last month, The O.C.’s market has successfully weathered its darkest hour. This is clearly the bottom, and prices can only go up from here.
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your voice?
I was just filling in for Gary Watts, who seems conspicuously absent from the media spotlight these days.
OC, shame on you! You just insulted pastures.
Gary is in a body bag somewhere.
He’s in the bag!
we wish
He better not be dead! Not until I get a chance to use the JT I have reserved for him and turn him into a human shish-ka-boob. Until then, hands off - he’s mine!
I just said shish-ka-boob…….(snicker)
why do I sense that exnav is practicing w/a pipe cleaner & jar of olives ?! Extra virgin too . . .
On Crisp and Cole, why isn’t it suprising that homes “owned” by these scam artists would be further ripped off and have things stolen. Isn’t this sort of thing illegal. Can’t someone go after them. If you destroy a home before foreclosure, can’t you be sued for the damage? Help here from any legal eagles.
I sure hope they do. However, our local DA is horrible and wil probably do nothing.
Not a legal expert, I have read that there is nothing that can be done about it. Until the house goes back to the bank it is yours to do what you please with it.
It all depends on the item, and whether it is a “fixture” or not. A “fixture” legally becomes part of the land, whereas a mere chattel can be unplugged and removed (e.g. the microwave).
A stove will be a fixture, air conditioning ditto, a dishwasher always causes arguments (because usually it can easily be unplugged), a refridgerator will not be a “fixture”, rather an unpluggable chattel, a hot water system will be a “fixture”, as will carpets and floor coverings (not rugs).
Light fittings always cause arguments, as a crystal chandelier is often replaced with a plastic globe. If you can unscrew it, it’s a chattel, not a “fixture”.
There is a fair bit of case law that curtains and window coverings are fixtures, so go figure.
Please note that this is an Australian legal perspective, and may not be applicable to your personal temporal jurisdiction.
You were wrong on the stove in the US. 99.9% of stoves here are a separate appliance that just slides into the space between the counters. Pull it forward, unplug it and its gone.
Ditto refrigerators.
Dishwashers are usually built-in and thus a fixture. If the thing is on wheels, no one expects it to stay and it moves about the room as needed.
Microwaves can go either way. Built-in to the cabinetry: fixture. Separate unit that just slides into a space for it and pulls out and unplugs: not a fixture.
Overhead and wall lights: fixture if attached to the ceiling or wall (but not the bulbs.)
In the US curtains and blinds are not fixtures and go with the owner. If you an take them down to wash them and rehang them, they are not fixures.
OCMetro: define “destroy”. Taking the appliances is not destroying. Kicking in the walls - that is destroying. Whether or not there is even a civil claim (forget criminal unless they burn the place down) depends upon the terms of the mortgage (duty to maintain to proerty etc if in there) and when the mortgagor took title and when the damage was done. Do it before the mortgage auction? No problem. Do it after? now it could be vandalism. (And on the criminal good luck proving the timing.)
Thanks, Ann, that’s an interesting perspective.
In Australia, stoves and ovens are “hard” wired into the high voltage circuit (415V 20A), and can’t be “unplugged”.
Dishwashers, on the other hand, are a simple plug-in to the 240V 10A household supply.
Can you possibly enlighten me about US street numbers - I see so many 10,450 and 7,717 numbers on Smith Street. All of the SFH’s I have ever lived in have had the numbers 6, 7, 5, 31, 15, 13 and 9. What on Earth is the story??
CFC up today. A big short Squeeze. It’s fine. Make’s it a good short opportunity here in the next few weeks potentially. After reading their report, they have set themselves up for failure IMO. A lot of the positive outlook depends on a lot of if’s. It depends on a FED rate cut, it depends on them being able to offload $10 Billion in loans that do not qualify for Fannie and Freddie for $10 BILLION! That means no discount. That also depends on no foreclosures and them being able to sell all their REO’s. It depends on no more buybacks of bad loans.
Yeah, investors are stupid. The chances of them doing that are slim to none.
But Tom, people are SMART. That’s what the Ditech commercials keep telling us!
Actually I have to give credit to Ditech. I was looking at a loan for a different house back in 2005, and when I mentioned a HELOC (I had no idea what that was at the time, but being pushed towards by my slime ball buyer agent), they told me it was quite dangerous and I should really not do that.
They also explained to me exactly what it was and why it would be bad for me. Now knowing what that was and the dangers, I used “Common Sense” and did not buy the other house before I sold.
Since then, I sold my house in July 2006, become a rentor and discovered HBB.
Thanks Ditech.
It’s not investors - it’s hedge funds squeezing the retail shorts
I picked up some extra gold just last week, jeez, I can’t believe how much it’s moved in such a short time, the End must be near, LOL
“I picked up some extra gold just last week, jeez, I can’t believe how much it’s moved in such a short time, the End must be near, LOL”.
After today’s move, gold is now our largest position. We have not been aggressively adding to it; the “appreciation” has done this. The higher gold moves, the more it spells doom for the dollar. Goodbye America….
I bought some gold on the day the Fed lowered the interest rate (just before they announced) and almost had my commissions paid before I got home. I think $1200 will be a good time to sell (though it may go a bit higher) and then retest $800 ending the second leg of the cycle. Get back in at this point as the third leg in the cycle will be parabolic. Maybe do some call options with a bit of your profits and leverage your way into a fortune. This is not advice, just my personal ideas after having followed the market for 30 years. Of course, a lot of good this fortune is going to do you when they’re rioting in the streets.
The end of dishonesty will have to happen sooner or later…
Gold is unimpeachable and 100% Honest.
It can’t lie.
I’ve been away for a while… lainvestorgirl - weren’t you in the “prices won’t drop in LA camp”? Are you becoming less optimistic?
I think she turned a little while back.
She hasn’t done the official indoctrination where you use your vulture smell sense to find and eat road kill.
But otherwise she’s on board.
Hey, it takes a big person to let go of their closely-held beliefs. Glad she could get on board before we start the acceleration to near light speed…
LA is still really expensive, the weakness I’m seeing is not impressive, sorry.
I am 5% in gold. Too little?
My goal is 10%, and I’m short of that. I added a bit this week as well.
It depends. If that means you are 95% in the US dollar, yes, 5% probably is too little. If you have 5% in gold, 20% in oil/gas, 20% in other resources, 20% in foreign stocks, and so on, it probably is OK.
25% of net worth in GBP, and another 5% in EUR, JPY, and CHF. GBP was acquired in early 2006 - so it has done well.
At this point about 20% low. So yeah, a little. )
Ima 100% out ‘er gold, and 100% ina plyastic. Er, you know…mmm credit carrerds. I’m gittin’ 29%!
Sincerely,
J6P-FB
From the original post:
They are toward the tail end of that development.
To which I say, “What a pain in the arse that tail is.”
The sting is in the tail
Yeah, so don’t lick the tail.
Unless, of course, you like stings. But that will cost you extra.
“‘It took Southern California 10 years to recover (from the last housing downturn), and it took the Bay Area six or seven years,’ said Cynthia Kroll, senior regional economist at the Fisher Center for Real Estate and Urban Economics at UC Berkeley. ‘That’s a very realistic expectation.’”
“Nguyen said she continues to look for investment property because prices are so low, and can find deals without going to an auction.”
Have I not said this? Almost every foreclosure story has a sap that bought expecting higher appreciation to come soon. Let’s say that about 50% of the houses bought at foreclosure are only temporarily out of the market, as these morons will try to unload in 2008.
The market does NOT need any more investors, it needs actual people who will buy and stay in these houses. And there are more houses than people to occupy them, AT ANY PRICE.
It took the Bay Area only 7 years to recover because of the dot.com bubble, and we know what happened there, too.
Let’s say that about 50% of the houses bought at foreclosure are only temporarily out of the market, as these morons will try to unload in 2008.
The inventory from the boom of the 21st century is going to stink up the joint for a long time. It will just linger on and on like that last party guest who simply won’t leave.
In the Sacramento area, household creation would need to come to a standstill for 4.5 yrs to absorb all the excess. I’ve been told that number is optimistic.
We know people become couples in part because it’s economically advantageous. Housing costs have a huge influence not just on creation but also on cohesion. If vacancies pick up and costs drop and couples begin to move apart because they now afford to separate, what happens with the future birth/death ratios? This was the hot debate over lunch today.
There was a story this week where it was noted that the last time Florida had a condo glut, it took 6 years to balance out.
Sounds like it’ll be 15-20 years then, considering the size of this glut.
…And there are more houses than people to occupy them, AT ANY PRICE…
Right on! No question about it!
Even if the excess supply was sold off at $0 per unit,
the excess inventory would still show as a liability since
*somebody* has to pay for Taxes, Utilities, Maintenance, etc..
In other words, the expression “we can’t give these things
away” may become literally true in the near future.
i don’t mind the knifecatchers. They’re taking one for the team
Hot debate on the HGTV forums was whether foreclosures count towards comps. She says even if they sell after being listed on the MLS, they don’t count.
I posted some detail in Bits and Buckets on why the RE hag from FL would think this but it Ben’s postmaster swallowed yet my post yet again.
Not that it matters, but why would anyone think that a foreclosure is not market value? ie. they think the bank wants to give it away any more than an owner?
Any distressed sale is excluded from comps by the banks.
The remaining sellers end up competing with the REO and that finally drives the price down.
I’ve harped on this but remember that many sellers are underwater and can’t lower their price.
Actually, I don’t remember it that way. I wotked fro an appraiser back in the early 90’s, and as I rememeber distressed sales could be thrown out if they were an anomaly. But if you got an area loaded with distressed sales, then they must be factored in. If distressed sales are the norm, then that is the market.
My DH was a broker and he said the same thing as you Ex. 1 foreclosure bought at the courthouse is an anomoly. 5 REOs listed on the MLS are a comp. And buyers have a way of determining what they think is comp for decision making no matter what the bank thinks.
Yep ,I agree with you ex-nnvmtgbrkr. If you have a few foreclosures or distressed sales in a neighborhood ,the sales are not used . If it gets to the point where you have alot of foreclosures and alot of houses that are vacant with weeds growing ,than it’s considered a declining market and must be noted on a appraisal along with the lower comps .
Yup, and as Robert Cote used to say, “they are the ones setting the comps for the rest of us… all the way down”. Real Financial Heroes!
The FUTURE “comp standards” calculations for new and used over valued POS
“‘It costs us a lot of money to carry these units every month, and we can’t keep digging ourselves in deeper,’ said Creekside’s co-owner Pat Cannon. ‘We know it’s time to move on, and we’ll take the price we can get.’”
Even if you could legally give these FB 0% interest for 30years they still might not be able to afford those $600K Mc Mansions
Especially if the deal is once you sell the new buyer has to get a real 30yr loan with interest.
So all those payments will be just like paying rent to the bank. Since there will probably be no capital gains when you sell.
But the benefits are NO foreclosures and maybe a prevention of a total collapse in housing prices since all these homes will have to be owner occupied.
A few notes: This guy reminds me of myself buying Cisco and JDSU in 2001 because it was so cheap—and I still lost my rear! Also, trying to judge the recovery period based on history is going to be a little tricky. The RE crash in the 90s was due to basic economics while the latest bubble is in a class of its own—built on loose credit, hysteria, and a little fraud. I think you would need to look at the pre- depression era land rush on Florida for a comparable bubble.
I struggled with JDSU because the books were so full of goodwill. They had good will write offs along with losing lots of money.
Very confusing.
We had a couple of people in the office who did the same. Bought ‘cheap’ assuming that the price would eventually go right back up to where it was.
Microsoft is STILL 1/2 the price it was at the top of the bubble. And plenty of those companies that were worth billions at one time, are now gone.
Which reminds me of a true story that is applicable now. There was a company called VA Linux that had an IPO. The news spoke of how high the IPO had reached that day. Missing in that info was that the stock OPENED at $800, went down to $600 at the end of the day, and kept going down to oblivion. But the news had turned it into a positive story.
Haha, yeah, I forgot about the Linux fad - remember Corel at $60/shares? What a joke.
I also remember some lame “B2B” web site, I think Freemarket.com, that had some ludicrous $300/share IPO and it was straight down from there. They don’t seem to exist anymore.
Of course, a $500k median house price in California is even more ludicrous than any of the above examples.
Actually there was elements of loose credit hysteri and fraud in the prior bubble of 1988…
‘The developers have to do something to get rid of this inventory.’”
Uh, how about ” give it away”?
“Cannon said they must attract as many bidders as possible because if the town houses only sell for the minimum bids, then he and his partners will lose half their investment. . .. we paid pretty much double (the minimum bid),’ Hopkins said. ‘The owners already here are going to really lose out.’”
anyone who reads THOSE comments & still thinks the auction wont be rigged by shill bidders is out to lunch !
you just KNOW the builder/auction shills WILL BID UP any low lagging bids since they;ve already admitted to needing more than min bid. No way in hell would I waste my time attending one of these crooked auctions.
Aquis,
I’ve gone to a few now just to see who in the hell these people are and what the scams smell like.
I’ve seen Ben comment on the bulldozing that took place after the S&L crisis/Texas bust. I think we may be seeing the same thing again.
I heard that was going on back in the ’80’s in Texas. Just what went on? I heard it was brand spanking new houses.
I’m PRAYING we see this here in Florida. And yet, story in the local fishwrap today about another developer petitioning the county commission for more townhouses.
“More than $23.6 billion in California housing wealth will evaporate if real estate prices continue to decline and foreclosures on subprime home loans soar, according to a new congressional report.”
‘Tis a mere flesh wound. As long as the stock market can continue rallying on bad news, the economy will never go into a recession (except possibly through the lens of the rear view mirror).
And 23.6 B is still understated. That’s going to leave a mark on just about every retail sector. ouch
The good news comes when the IRS wants that 1099 cash.
I think the 23.6B must be the monthly interest payment on the defaulted debt in California.
The figure is so ridiculously low as to be meaningless. There have been $65B in recognized losses from major finance entities with another $30B in additional reserves and an attempt to create an $80B sludge fund. All to hide losses from MBS and CDOs. All the foreclosure to date happened before August, 2007. The defaults since August are up 55%. These won’t show up in Foreclosure until 2008. The ARM mortgage-reset NODs haven’t even been sent yet.
I would have liked to get paid to have done that study for Congress. Pull a WAG and get paid a couple of hundred grand.
I think what actually happens is that the group runs the numbers according to accepted accounting and economic principles and exclaims, “HOLY SHIITE!”, then they fudge a little here, a little there, until the numbers are bad but not too bad.
That’s the number that gets published. I want to see the HOLY SHIITE number.
“stock market rallying”
USD index down 11% in a year
DJIA up 12% in a year
Not much of a positive return…oops, I forgot that huge dividend payout, what is it, 2% ?
I guess the stock mkt will turn down when the US recession spreads to other places (and maybe the dollar will firm, too)
The roller coaster finally reached the peak, and is crawling just over the top.. man, we’re sure up high.. people down there look like ants. Pretty soon all the girls will start screaming. I like that part..
Wheeee!
http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=AAPL&time=20&freq=1&comp=&compidx=aaaaa%7E0&compind=&uf=0&ma=&maval=&lf=1&lf2=&lf3=&type=2&size=1&txtstyle=&style=&submitted=true&intflavor=basic&origurl=%2Ftools%2Fquotes%2Fintchart.asp
Professor Bear
try this http://tinyurl.com
Thanks. Always wondered where those came from. (ok I’ll admit when solar cell calculators came out I spent 1/2 an hour trying to turn one off until one of my co-workers told me to go stand in a closet).
errr, I just put my thumb over the solar panel
then I rub my stomach while at the same time jumping up n down on one foot . .. just to be sure.
usually end up dropping & breaking the calculator.
so either way the damn thing shuts off.
Financial Times: “California pension fund Calpers assumed the ground beneath its feet was a safe place to park some of its $250bn of assets. The fund has invested billions of dollars in land and residential housing projects over the past 15 years, often within its home state. Those projects earned Calpers some of its highest returns before the US housing market hit a wall. But the fund now has hundreds of millions of dollars tied up in US ‘land banks’ which are struggling to deal with undeveloped acreage home builders no longer want… Calpers reported $1.12bn of investments in ventures managed by leading land banks Hearthstone, IHP and MacFarlane, as of March 31.”
Watching oil and gold go straight up is as terrifying as watching certain stocks crash.
Even if its not part of my “injured list” of stocks, its a creepy feeling either way up or down.
“…who said, after walking into a Seven Oaks home, ‘Oops, there’s no stove. Oh wait a minute, there’s no dishwasher. No hang on a minute, there’s a microwave missing.’”
She flipped on the light switch…
“and then…it went dark”
Flash:
I’m re-re-re updating my Bakersfried motto:
Bakersfried,
Oil, carrots, pesticide dust and foreclosed houses… without door knobs or appliances.
I didn’t think it was possible, but Bakersfieldians have slipped under the limbo stick of decency, which curiously enough was on the ground.
“Nhung Nguyen bought two houses at the July auction, closing both escrows a few weeks ago. She bid $132,500 for a five-bedroom, two-bath house on Third Street that was listed for sale at $184,900, and $155,000 for a three-bedroom, two-bath house on East Balch Avenue that was listed for $199,900.”
“‘At that time, it wasn’t a bad deal,’ she said. But prices have fallen in the three months since, and the deals don’t appear as good now.” “‘I’ve seen better deals lately,’ said Nguyen, a real estate agent. ‘There are too many houses in inventory and a lot of foreclosures.’”
“Nguyen added $3,000 to her purchase price on the Third Street house after the auction company called and said the lender, who foreclosed on the property, was balking.”
“‘The lender wanted the price to be $145,000 and wasn’t selling it at $132,000. I said, ‘You can keep it.’ Instead, I paid $135,000, plus 5%,’ Nguyen said.”
“Nguyen said she continues to look for investment property because prices are so low, and can find deals without going to an auction. She just paid $225,000 for a house the seller originally bought for $90,000 in 1990. He listed it for sale for eight months at $345,000, couldn’t find a buyer and finally sold it to Nguyen.”
“‘If you really want to invest, this is the best time,’ she said.”
Yep, still plenty of idiots floating around CA.
“‘The lender wanted the price to be $145,000 and wasn’t selling it at $132,000. I said, ‘You can keep it.’ Instead, I paid $135,000, plus 5%,’ Nguyen said.”
I have read this three times and still don’t understand. She told them to keep it, then paid 135k + 5%, which equals about 142k? Someone help me out.
5% was probably the auction fee, so she had originally bid $132K + 5%. The bank must have wanted $145K + 5%. So, she came up $3K instead of the $13K requested.
Regardless, she still strikes me as a knife-catcher-extraordinaire! Her great deals will seem less great by the month, as she’s already learned on a couple of them after a measly 3 months. Imagine her pain in another 3 years!
‘ Her great deals will seem less great by the month, ‘
- She is unskilled and unaware of it.
We like the knifecatchers. We especially like watching them get burned, and then go back for more. And we so appreciate their investment advice.
Hence why this downturn will be slow but prolonged. How long until she must sell at any price that cuts the monthly costs?
That attitude will end as the credit tightens further. I admit that it shocks me how loose credit remains. But judging on how the banks are doing (not to mention the ABX index), we’ll have another tightening soon. Probably a slow steady “frog boiling.” What I’m hearing is that small business loans are tight and tough to get.
Got popcorn?
Neil
She can go forever on that. With a 20% down, mortgage payments will be about $550/month - for a five bedroom house! Even in Fresno I’ll bet you can get $800 a month rent for something that big so she will be making money from the word go.
This amazed me as well. Like the couple on a thread yesterday who owned (then lost) 6 houses. Both of them Realtors.
She does at least have the brains to see that what looked like a good deal in July doesn’t look so hot now. Wonder how many more “not so good” deals she’ll enter into before she desists.
That is definitely the money quote. I know several pseudo-vulture investors (mostly real estate agents and mortgage brokers) who think they are getting bargains from the bank, or through short sales, yet are gagging on the proverbial falling knife.
Just wait until these investors throw their new purchases back on the market because they couldn’t make an end-of-game flip!
and just as I commented yesterday, the lender balked at the final auction priced and wanted MORE MONEY! So now that the auction co. has all the bidders personal contact info, and maybe financials as well, for later protacted negotiations at what was supposed to be a one-time offer/sale/ take it or leave it. So in actuality, these so-called “auctions” are not as such but really just “lead generators” for the banks to squeeze more money out of serious buyers looking for a good deal.
Gezzuz H christ the ways banks come up with to screw people around is just endless!
sidenote: companies asking for my phone number & address is comical also, as if you balk the cashier gets an attitude, claiming ” we dont telemarket, its just for receipt ID purposes (Lowes)” .
Oh really? then why do you need my FULL phone number? why not just the last 4 or 5 digits instead? that way yer virtuallyu assured of no pestering calls. Amusing how everyone wants to turn a one-time purchase into a life-long relationship by asking for personal info.
last night @ gamestop the clerk was high pressuring me about subscribing to their magazine; only a year for only $$$. no thanks was my reply. of course he says NOOOO we dont sell yer info - its private.
so I said - ok lets use YOUR NAME & ADDRESS then I’ll just come in here & pick it up from you. he got strangely quiet. hmmm ya THINK ?!
Good point, Aqius - didn’t even think of that angle. Another great reason to stay away from these scam auctions for another couple of years!
Do what I do, give then right area code and the wrong number. I find giving them the # is time works well and all marketing queries will find that I live at 111 Main Street now (I used to have things sent to the old governors house in Gold River).
123 Fake Street
most people i know give the automated phone number to a college in their neighborhood.
“I don’t have a phone” is my stock response. I love watching them scowl, as it’s obvious that I’m lying straight to their faces, but no one has ever challenged me on it.
867-5309 works well (Jennie)
When a company (Lowe) asks for my phone number I give them the area code and 555-1212.
I give them
Area + 976-3232
Michael Jackson hotline
Haw! Ahawhaw! Super!
Give them the number for Dial-a-Prayer.
Just tell em no, nobody’s given me hassle with that. They’re forced to do it, they probably hate it too.
Darn and I wanted your number JK…
I think there was a number people woudl give out and when someone called it it would tell them they were a loser and got rejected.
Ain’t that the truth. Give me the opinon of some Vietnamese immigrant who’s probably been in this country less than 10 years - that’s the ticket. And the funny thing is she’s already down.
She’ll make it up on volume.
““‘At that time, it wasn’t a bad deal,’ she said. But prices have fallen in the three months since, and the deals don’t appear as good now.”
Zoweee!! Hey, honey that falling knife smarts when it sticks in, don’t it?! Ouch!!
DOC
“There’s a new problem with real estate foreclosures as some residents have resorted to stripping everything from appliances to door-knobs from foreclosed homes before the houses go back to the bank.”
They promised us the American Dream but all I got was this doorknob.
Good one, joey!
“There’s a new problem with real estate foreclosures as some residents have resorted to stripping everything from appliances to door-knobs from foreclosed homes before the houses go back to the bank.””
These folks will likely be seen at flea markets with the appliances and fixtures–trying to hawk them for pennies on the dollar.
Kind of puts an exclamation point on why losers like these should NEVER have been able to purchase a home.
DOC
It is funny–one hears a few years ago about how the home ownership rate is up and one thinks, “Wow, that’s a good thing.”
Well, it wasn’t and it isn’t. There is a limit.
Bloomberg is reporting that the homeownership rate is dropping fast. Hmmm….
A friend argued that foreclosures would drive up rent. I looked at him and asked “who is going to live in the old home?” After he mentioned time lag, I just scoffed and reminded him that employers are known to be sending people out of state…
Its going to take a while to break out of fear.
Got popcorn?
Neil
haha….American dream….the even bigger lie…even bigger than the RE bubble…throw a few scraps to people here and there to make it look like people actually get somewhere and s c r e w the rest while doing it.
It’s the best scheme anyone has made so far to make people feel hopeful…that’s probably why every thinks American is land of opportunity….NOT.
i beg to differ.. Everyone does not believe what the NAR feeds us about a house equaling propserity.
As to the real American Dream, it’s alive and kicking .. has been since before the USA became a country. We remain the land of opportunity.
Check out the wiki page.. Houses are not mentioned till the last sentence in the article (a recent product of NAR propaganda).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_dream
As I said, the perception of land of opportunity is alive and kicking….it’s worked well
Well, maybe it seems that way to vampires and such, but us mortals, the US looks pretty darn good.
Anyone understand why CFC had a write-down of $830.9 million on the value of mortgage servicing rights??
I thought that was where the money was to be made, even on bad loans! Even on bad loans that have been packaged and sold off, there’s money to be made on the foreclosure action and associated fees.
So, why the write-down on servicing??
“there’s money to be made on the foreclosure action and associated fees.”
very labor and paper intensive, plus it’s an end game. a performing loan that stretches for 5 years requires no effort whatsover, it’s just a box of blinking lights.
Anyone understand why CFC had a write-down of $830.9 million on the value of mortgage servicing rights??
Interesting…missed that. They paid alot more for them assuming they were all cookie cutter and were wrong?
Here’s a wild guess about the write-down on servicing rights. If I loan purchase money in a transaction where a title company is doing the escrow, the title company usually offers to service the loan for “only” ten dollars a month or some such thing. They point out that the cost would be borne by my client. I politely tell them to go jump in a lake. If C’wide’s servicing includes collecting some fixed monthly fee from the borrowers, then a loss of performing borrowers translates into a loss of such fees. And $800M is indeed a small percentage of the hundreds of billions in interest that will probably never be paid. Is this a possible explanation of the servicing write-down?
This story brings up an interesting point. People look at the number of subprime loans to estimate future losses. How about the guy that has a prime loan for 500K and the builder auctions the house next door for 250K. If he loses his job or needs to move or retires and he needs to sell, his only option may be default. If prices drop much, everybody who bought near the peak is a potential default.
This is an excellent point, relates to something that I brought up on the weekend bits a while ago.
This is a statement heard more and more in the MSM/Newspaper Ads:
“‘Most of them are close-outs. They are toward the tail end of that development,’ said Michael Schack, of Real Estate Disposition Corp.”
When builders say that, I interpret it as:
“Look at all the other suckers that we fooled, you should really just wait for a foreclosure.”
Thanks for the tip, I think I will.
“If prices drop much, everybody who bought near the peak is a potential default.”
Too bad it’s not just them. It’s everyone who did a big cash out REFI as well.
what is difference between door handles and door knobs? anybody?
Yes, having builder give you part of what you overpaid back sounds fair to me also. (that’s hilarious, who breeds these people?)
Door handles might be those things that are 4″ long and thin and parallel to the door surface, sticking out on a perpendiclar shaft about 1″ long, where a doorknob would usually be.
My brother tells me that door knobs are round, door handles are long.
BTW: missing appliances in foreclosed homes are nothing. I have seen foreclosed homes that have been stripped of copper plumbing, central vacuum cleaners, heating/air condition units, solar water heaters, wiring, windows (in casings), automatic garage door openers, carpets ripped out, bathroom fixtures (including stall showers), toilets, wood floors, built-in drawers, breakfast bars, outdoor BBQs, even wallpaper stripped off the walls and rolled up — all gone. In the OC housing bubble in early 90s, I remember one two million dollar home that was dismantled that it was simply torn down.
door handles are long and skinny .. install them so the dog can let himself out when he needs to take a leak.
“There’s a new problem with real estate foreclosures as some residents have resorted to stripping everything from appliances to door-knobs from foreclosed homes before the houses go back to the bank.”
“17 News has uncovered two cases where the homes that have belonged to former members of the Crisp and Cole Real Estate team. The first home was owned by Jeriel Salinas, a current agent with Crisp Realty.”
For a moment I thought that the Crips and the Bloods were getting in the RE business!
” But he and possibly other Serita residents might ask DeNova to give them rebates, he said … I think that would be a fair thing to do,’ Diaz said.”
Rebates?! REBATES !??!?!
Then the builders rep woke up in the hospital bed after a coronary nightmare of agents standing at the model home handing out rebates!!
(credit to ‘ Breaking Away’ )
I suspect the line for the rebates will be very, very, very slow moving.
Dave Cantrell did very well in his rebate quest. (not!!)
Aquis,
well that seems fair. After all, all the FBs were planning to split their profits with their developers, after they flipped the house, right?
Jeez, where do these cement heads come from, and when can we ship them back to whatever hellhole spawned them?
I loved the response of one of the builders. It was essentially, “we didn’t ask to participate when your houses went up in value, why should we pay a rebate if they lose value?”
Another idiot that wants a rebate. OK - I want a rebate on every single item I’ve ever bought that later went on sale. You got the house you wanted at the price you were willing to pay so STFU. All the smoke has now drifted out to the desert and it’s making me cranky.
Well then, it’s clearly not the right kind of smoke.
Rebates? What rebates? We don`t have to give you no stinkin rebates!
“But he and possibly other Serita residents might ask DeNova to give them rebates, he said.”
“‘I think that would be a fair thing to do,’ Diaz said.”
Didn’t your Daddy ever teach you life isn’t fair? After your conversation with the builder come back and tell us how that worked out for ya.
Any why is a rebate the “fair” thing to do in this case? Why? Because it involves a “home” - is that why?
Sorry, Mr. Diaz you helped make housing a commodity - and just like any other investment - there are no rebates.
One good line I heard (maybe here), was that the first thing you need to understand about the housing bubble is that it had nothing to do with houses. That is, it was all a debt-entrapment, wealth-transfer scam. It could have been anything. Dot-com stocks, tulips, bell-bottom jeans, you name it. The most convenient way to lead the lambs to slaughter this time was via the Home Sweet Home angle.
‘…the first thing you need to understand about the housing bubble is that it had nothing to do with houses.’
NYCityboy is the one you heard that from. The man with the heart of gold came up with that one, yesterday.
It’s a good one, innit?
Yes, and I’m sure Mr. Diaz was ready to give DeNova a cut of the profits if his “investment” had shot up like he was expecting, right?
So tired of the whole rebate thing. Some brainchild at Apple need some trout treatment for kicking this trend into action.
Dear Mr Diaz.
After much “soul searching” we have decided that offering you and all other previous purchasers a rebate is the fair and “right” thing to do. Feel free to return home and enjoy the rest of the weekend, because I can assure you that first thing Monday morning, the checks will be in the mail.
Ah Yes, Rebates!
“Can I get a rebate on that $1600 trip to Disneyland? It just wasn’t as much fun as I thought it might be.”
“I’d like a rebate on that 1976 Gran Torino I had a while back; it seems now I overspent”
“Please mail me a rebate on my tuition for your Masters program in Biology, I’ve decided engineering is more my style”
“We need a rebate on our 1961 through 2007 Social Security withholding, we’ve decided not to retire after all”
Oh, and -
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
The face in the mirror won’t stop
The girl in the window won’t drop
A feast of friends
“Alive!” she cried
Waitin’ for me
Outside!
Dear Ben, Please “rebate” any monetary contributions I ever made to HBB if house prices do not go down forever. - az_L
The Doors
“Early October home-selling stats from DataQuick show…sales activity was down 41% vs. a year ago for the 22 business days ended Oct. 12. If that holds, it’ll mean that O.C.’s losing streak will hit 25 straight months where the buying pace failed to meet last year’s activity levels.”
Just wait until late October (Santa-Ana-fire-season) sales results start trickling in. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
It is hard to imagine that new and resale home sales can get worse than September which was the worst in 19 years. Of course that was when DataQuick was started. There are no previous state lower sales figures. Looks like we are going into uncharted water.
Seasonality and the reluctance of sellers to give their homes away at fire sale prices both work in favor of still-worse sales figures in the months leading up to the Souper Bowl.
And Hoz,
me thinks the waters are going to be very hot.
Give these “investors” a few months and they’ll all be “bailing out” faster than paratroopers over a nudist colony
Yea, but then they’ll just find they’re in the mud with the fat pigs.
“‘This will do hell with our comparables,’ said real estate broker Sharon Brown, who is also a member of the San Pablo City Council. ‘We don’t appreciate what’s going on, but we understand it,’ she said. ‘The developers have to do something to get rid of this inventory.’”
Well, Sharon, I didn’t appreciate it when you and your shill colleagues cheered on the rabid speculation of the past 6-7 years, but no one cared about my opinion, just as no one cares about yours now.
“‘This will do hell with home prices,’ said bitter renter Cereal, who is also a member of the HBB savers club as prices kept skyrocketing upwards. ‘We don’t appreciate what’s going on, but we understand it,’ he said.
hmmm…what a difference a year makes
Door knobs and appliances missing…. that nothing compared to what I saw on Long Island in the late 70s. Furnace, water heater,and if the hard wood flooring was the quality 7/8″ thick stuff that was gone. Cooper pipes gone as was the wiring. Of course some fools stripped wiring only to find its the cheap Aluminum stuff that was legal then.
Then the the houses were turned over to the teens for late night parties.
In the Bronx there was an industry…Burn the brick building, you wanted a hot fire to remove all the insulation from the cooper wiring. Strip the cooper and lead… then take all the bricks. In the 70s a used brick was worth 25 cents. It took about one week to level a six story brick building.
Most of the South bronx is just rubble in foundations because of this. When they ran out of building, they started stripping the blacktop off the old streets to expose the cobble stone streets below. In the 70s a cobble stone was worth three dollars. Lots of Dirt roads in the south bronx for this reason.
“‘Things are getting exponentially worse,’ said Haveman, a principal at Beacon Economics in San Rafael. Home prices ‘have only now started to drop. They have a ways to go.’”
on September 27th Mr. Haveman said
“A recession within the next 12 months is likely and its impact on the Bay Area will be “sharp but short” due to the area’s strong economic underpinnings, according to a new forecast.”
“A recession will be brought on by slowing consumer spending prompted by a cooling housing market, said economist Jon Haveman. “People who have seen their house values rise 10 to 15 percent annually have been spending accordingly,” he said. The Bay Area housing market is overpriced and Haveman expects prices to drop by as much as 20 percent by 2009 before stabilizing.”
and
“The same excesses in the mortgage markets have also been seen in commercial markets.”
A pretty reasonable economist, but now a month later things are getting “exponentially worse”.
Back from an overnight date with a 1,600 year old…
I know you’re sleeping right now, Aladinsane, but just in case you’re still awake, how is she doing? She’s prolly a bit worried about her friends in So. Cal. Let her know that all the trees in my mom’s back yard in Ramona are doing fine.
Olympiagal, shoot me an email at mrhousingbubble ‘at’ aol.com
One doesn’t hear much from the brads of the world, anymore…
I’ve been busy so I’m just getting a chance to crunch numbers based on the September Dataquick numbers by zipcode. http://www.dqnews.com/ZIPLAT.shtm
The zipcode I’ve been tracking since late ‘94 is Palmdale 93552. There were a total of 18 sales in the zip in September. That’s down 33% from 27 last month. It’s also down YOY 70% from 60 sales this time last year.
The median sales price actually rose 3% MOM but was still down 17.5% from same month last year. The most telling stat IMHO was the $/sq.ft. Last year it was $211, this year $162. That’s a decline of 30.25% YOY and may be the best measure of where the market actually stands. We’re sitting on 2.5 years of inventory now.
For those who would say that the westside 93551 is immune since it’s widely considered to be the “better” side of town, there were 25 sales in September for the entire zipcode. That’s down 75.3% YOY. At current sales rates there are 39.6 months of inventory in 93551. For those who may be lazy or math challenged, that’s 3 years, 3 months, and 20 days of houses to sell.
Yeah, this will all be over sometime next year, nothing to see here….
and I’m a pretty pink pansie.
Thanks dude for the update. I’ve been keeping my eye on 93536 Quartz Hill area for 2 years now. I have lived in the Antelope Valley for 30 years and I can tell you that these prices will drop like a rock. I will wait as long as I have to until prices come back down to earth!
Gotta go my popcorn is popping. YUM!
I’ve been warning about the drought for some time now, but people only seem to notice when water is about to run out…
Can anybody plan further than a few weeks out, anymore?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071026/D8SH34A04.html
I love so much how you keep talking about water. Water, water…
Home sales, prices nosedive!
From the article……
“Some analysts have predicted existing-home prices could fall 20 to 30 percent from their peak as inventory remains at record levels with a 19-month supply.”
http://www.inbusinesslasvegas.com:80/2007/10/26/feature2.html
Yet other analysts have predicted price declines closer to 50%.
Some DQ news on CA:
http://tinyurl.com/38ubqr
“A total of 72,571 Notices of Default (NoDs) were filed during the July-to-September period, up 34.5 percent from 53,943 during the previous quarter, and up 166.6 percent from 27,218 in third-quarter 2006, according to DataQuick Information Systems of La Jolla.”
“Last quarter’s default level passed the previous peak of 61,541 reached in first-quarter 1996. A low of 12,417 was reached in third-quarter 2004. An average of 34,781 NoDs have been filed quarterly since 1992, when DataQuick’s NoD statistics begin.”
“Because a residence may be financed with multiple loans, last quarter’s 72,751 default notices were recorded on 68,746 different residences.”
“On primary mortgages statewide, homeowners were a median five months behind on their payments when the lender started the default process. The borrowers owed a median $10,914 on a median $344,000 mortgage.”
“Of the homeowners in default, just under half, 45.9 percent, emerge from the foreclosure process by bringing their payments current, refinancing, or selling the home and paying off what they owe. A year ago it was 80.9 percent. The increased portion of homes lost to foreclosure reflects the slow real estate market, as well as the number of homes bought during the height of the market with multiple-loan financing, which makes ‘work-outs’ difficult.”
“Trustees Deeds recorded, or the actual loss of a home to foreclosure, totaled 24,209 during the third quarter. That is the highest number in DataQuick’s statistics, which go back to 1988. Last quarter was up 38.7 percent from 17,458 for the previous quarter, and up 604.8 percent from 3,435 for last year’s third quarter. The peak of the prior foreclosure cycle was 15,418 in third-quarter 1996, while the low was 637 in the second quarter of 2005.”
Record foreclosures, record NODs, and the percentage of NODs going to foreclosure is now over 50%. The vicious (or virtuous, depending on your point of view) circle appears to be in motion.
You forgot to add “On a loan-by-loan basis, mortgages were least likely to go into default in San Francisco, Marin and San Mateo counties.” Uhhhhh…… is it different there?
Nope, they’re just behind the curve (somebody has to be). Or, to try another metaphor, they’re sitting in the last cars of rollercoaster (with SD, Fresno, IE in the front) - they’ll go to the same place, but others will get there first.
Pinole as a “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity?
That utterance could only come from the Piehole of yet another dubious auctioneer…
“Pinole has a $700,000 house for sale. Bids start at just over half-price. ‘The quaint community of Pinole just 20 miles northeast of San Francisco is about to play host to a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for homebuyers!’ reads a recent news release from Beverly Hills-based auctioneer Kennedy Wilson.”
Big three credit-raters subpoenaed
Connecticut AG Richard Blumenthal investigates possible anticompetitive tactics at S&P, Moody’s and Fitch.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/26/news/ct_ag.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007102617
An actual investigation? This is fantastic. Let’s just hope that something good (such as justice, better practices, etc.) actually come out of this.
The thing that really sucks about this implosion is it won’t be over in 2009 or 2010. The perfect storm is already starting.
Bubble Boomers Retiring
Severe Economic Recession
Housing Collapse
Stock Collapse (coming)
The next 10 years are really going to suck.
The thing that really sucks about this implosion is it won’t be over in 2009 or 2010.
That’s actually really good news for those of us on the sidelines, because it gives us more time to save and to enjoy rents that are half what it would cost to buy.
Also the longer the implosion continues, the cheaper houses become. This is true even if nominal prices merely flatten. Inflation is on our side, not theirs.
Anyway, consider the alternative: prices start going up already again in 2009 or 2010. That would suck.
Housing Slump Likely to Worsen.
http://ap.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5ih-MLks9gapQmcOV8huTs9f2fsswD8SH4S4G0
“Serita resident Ted Diaz said he bought his house four or five months ago. He is not happy about the prospect of lower price tags on the seven remaining houses. But he and possibly other Serita residents might ask DeNova to give them rebates, he said.”
“‘I think that would be a fair thing to do,’ Diaz said.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrpx4NAtsFQ
tee hee!
Life is not fair. Mr. Diaz definitely was not reading this blog six months ago.
“Condo conversions were all the rage a couple of years ago, as seven Modesto apartment complexes decided to sell about 500 rentals as owner-occupied units. The first couple of projects sold like hotcakes.”
Never once have I seen a restaurant run out of hotcakes, because they were selling so well…
“Nguyen said she continues to look for investment property because prices are so low, and can find deals without going to an auction. She just paid $225,000 for a house the seller originally bought for $90,000 in 1990. He listed it for sale for eight months at $345,000, couldn’t find a buyer and finally sold it to Nguyen.”
Truly blinded by greed and stupidity…
trying to catch a falling knife…
slowly the sheeple bleeds to death…
This type of talk makes me sick
How can a person who represents “we the people” want to maintain crazy property valuations? He should welcome a price reset.
Me: Define “All of us”.
Senator Klein: Well, “all of us” means “all senators”.
Me: Oh.
Here is a real gem from The Davis Enterprise (Davis, CA):
“Forty-two apartments in South Davis are getting new appliances, lighting, toilets, paints, carpeting and countertops in preparation for becoming for-purchase condominiums.
Developer Paul Petrovich said he hopes to sell the units fot $675,000 to $800,000.”
Mind you, while Davis IS overpriced, $600,000 buys you a really nice HOUSE here! Anyway, it gets better:
“Petrovich said he doesn’t expect a lot of the units to be bought for rentals, because there would be no profit in it. ‘The rent I am getting on there units wouldn’t cover half the mortgage,’ he said.”
Yep, the developer himself said that buying any of the condos is more than twice as expensive as renting!
And now, a voice of reason:
“The commission didn’t have any authority to set price on the condos, said City Planner Cathy Camacho, but ‘I’m not sure how realistic those prices are in this market.’”
“Comment by Joshua Tree
2007-10-26 17:19:29
It all depends on the item, and whether it is a “fixture” or not. A “fixture” legally becomes part of the land, whereas a mere chattel can be unplugged and removed (e.g. the microwave).
A stove will be a fixture, air conditioning ditto, a dishwasher always causes arguments (because usually it can easily be unplugged), a refridgerator will not be a “fixture”, rather an unpluggable chattel, a hot water system will be a “fixture”, as will carpets and floor coverings (not rugs).
Light fittings always cause arguments, as a crystal chandelier is often replaced with a plastic globe. If you can unscrew it, it’s a chattel, not a “fixture”.
There is a fair bit of case law that curtains and window coverings are fixtures, so go figure.
Please note that this is an Australian legal perspective, and may not be applicable to your personal temporal jurisdiction. “
You were wrong on the stove in the US. 99.9% of stoves here are a separate appliance that just slides into the space between the counters. Pull it forward, unplug it and its gone.
Ditto refrigerators.
Dishwashers are usually built-in and thus a fixture. If the thing is on wheels, no one expects it to stay and it moves about the room as needed.
Microwaves can go either way. Built-in to the cabinetry: fixture. Separate unit that just slides into a space for it and pulls out and unplugs: not a fixture.
Overhead and wall lights: fixture if attached to the ceiling or wall (but not the bulbs.)
In the US curtains and blinds are not fixtures and go with the owner. If you an take them down to wash them and rehang them, they are not fixtures.
OCMetro: define “destroy”. Taking the appliances is not destroying. Kicking in the walls - that is destroying. Whether or not there is even a civil claim (forget criminal unless they burn the place down) depends upon the terms of the mortgage (duty to maintain to property etc if in there) and when the mortgagor took title and when the damage was done. Do it before the mortgage auction? No problem. Do it after? now it could be vandalism. (And on the criminal good luck proving the timing.)