November 4, 2007

Waiting Until The Market’s Back To Normal

The Bradenton Herald reports from Florida. “Troy Dugan remembers when buyers snatched up Dugan Construction Inc.’s affordable homes almost as quickly as his Bradenton company could build them. But now buyers are scarce for the roughly 30 properties he has on the market, including a brand-new house that hasn’t sold in almost a year. ‘Two years ago, or any time prior to that, we would’ve sold that house right away,’ said Dugan.”

“More than 1,000 Manatee homes - or 17 percent of the market - listed for sale last week were priced at $176,000 or less, the level at which property is considered affordable in Manatee.”

“In all, more than a quarter of the roughly 5,800 homes on the MLS were in the affordable and workforce price ranges. The actual numbers likely are higher because not all homes for sale are listed on the MLS.”

“Suni Byrns, who specializes in selling older resale homes in the Bayshore area, says it has become more difficult to qualify buyers for mortgages.”

“‘I’m finding more that people, just because of their credit numbers, have too much debt-to-credit ratio,’ Byrns said. ‘It’s a lot more difficult to get a mortgage today. They (lenders) are asking for additional, additional, additional information. Even within the last week before closing, they are asking for more information.’”

“‘It depends on the credit score,’ Byrns said. ‘If it’s low, they’re going to want 20 percent down.’”

“Affordable housing advocates also strike another note of caution: What’s affordable is not always desirable. Not everyone wants to live in a condo, townhouse or villa, which account for two-thirds of the local affordable market.”

“The ranks of affordably priced residences are growing. Between Oct. 15-29, almost 100 more were added to the MLS, with many falling into the affordable range when sellers dropped their asking prices.”

“And prices for already-affordable homes are falling. Sellers lowered prices for 53 affordable houses on the MLS by as much as $29,900 during the two-week period, according to the Herald’s analysis.”

“Vickie Smalls, a local real estate agent, points to a dozen of her own clients who are prequalified. ‘They don’t want what they can afford,’ she said. ‘They’re waiting for prices to go down even more, and they’re going to keep waiting until someone says, ‘Hey guys, the real estate market’s back to normal.’”

The News Press from Florida. “Over the years, the availability of reasonably priced offerings has been as closely associated with Lehigh Acres’ housing stock as sunshine is with Florida. The residential market’s explosion and contraction over the past few years doesn’t appear to have diminished that perception.”

“Broker Kevin Williamson, who’s been involved in the real estate business in Lehigh since 1986, said housing prices in the tract range from about $80,000 for a two-bedroom, one-bathroom house with a carport to roughly $180,000 for a three- or four-bedroom home with up to a two-car garage and a pool. A year ago, those same houses might have listed for $110,000 and $210,000, respectively, he added.”

“‘It’s a good time to buy because prices are running 30 to 50 percent of what they were during the peak, two years ago,’ he said.”

“One of the agency’s listings in the tract serves as an ideal case in-point. The list price for the 1964 vintage house, which has central sewer and water and an oversized lot, is $119,900, down dramatically from the $180,000 it sold for in early 2006, Williamson said.”

“‘There are a lot of good buys, compared to Fort Myers and Cape Coral,’ said R.J. Dean, a Realtor in Fort Myers. ‘Everything is going down everywhere, but especially in Lehigh.’”

“He’s handling the listing for a 1,133 square-foot, West Jasmine Road home with three bedrooms, two bathrooms and a two-car garage. The asking price is $140,000 for the house, which was built in 2003.”

“Dean said he has seen the price of similar homes in the tract rocket upward from the $75,000 range to roughly $225,000 and back down again over the past three years. ‘They just skyrocketed and people couldn’t believe it,’ he said. ‘Now things seem like they’re finally settling down again.’”

“Despite all of the bad news about the slumping housing market, Bob Hensley said he remains confident that it will rebound by the time Marina Village, a $150 million mixed-use project at Tarpon Point Marina, is complete in 28 months.”

“‘I’ve been called crazy before,’ said Hensley. ‘I think we’re near the bottom of a business cycle and heading up.’”

“With a price range from about $700,000 to $1.5 million, the property isn’t as affected by a sluggish housing market, said Nick Cross, director of sales and marketing. Cross said properties below $500,000 are more affected.”

“‘Out here, waterfront property at a residential community like this, we have the buyers I call the ‘want to’ buyers,’ Cross said. ‘They don’t need it, but they see something they like and they want to buy it.’”

The Sun News from South Carolina. “The number of subprime mortgages in Horry County surged in recent years, and some economists and real estate experts say the risky, high-interest loans could be an extended drag on this area’s slumping real estate market.”

“‘The bottom line is that nobody knows when this will end,’ William Harrison, director of the Center for Real Estate at the University of South Carolina, said of this area’s worsening real estate slump.”

“Economists ‘are becoming more gloomy about what, if any, recovery we’re going to see’ any time soon, Harrison said.” “Subprime loans became so prevalent during the housing boom of recent years that they accounted for one out of every four home loans made in Horry County in 2006. That is nearly twice the rate of just two years earlier.”

“Now, as home prices fall, recent buyers with little or no equity are feeling a financial pinch. It is difficult to predict how bad things will get or when the tide will turn, economists say, because there is no historical comparison for the unprecedented subprime mortgage frenzy.”

“‘Mortgages are still deteriorating at an accelerating pace, and that’s scary,’ Karen Weaver, global head of securitization research at Deutsche Bank AG, told The Wall Street Journal. ‘We haven’t come near a stabilization, and we expect things to get worse,’ Weaver said.”

“There were 13,106 subprime mortgages totaling $1.6 billion originated in Horry County between 2004 and 2006, according to data gathered as part of the federal Home Mortgage Disclosure Act.”

“Many subprime loans in Horry County were taken by real estate speculators who bought when housing prices were peaking over the past few years. The federal data show half of the subprime loans made last year were for homes that are not the owner’s primary residence.”

“‘Myrtle Beach is a speculator market and a favorite tool of speculators is the adjustable-rate mortgage,’ Harrison said. ‘Those mortgages are like throwing gasoline on a fire.’”

“The number of subprime mortgages in Horry County nearly tripled over a three-year period - from 2,246 loans in 2004 to 6,112 loans in 2006. The monetary risk grew even faster because the value of those mortgages more than quadrupled - from $207 million in 2004 to $870 million in 2006.”

“Harrison said the risk for many of those loans was masked by rampant fraud in the subprime market, where buyers’ incomes and financial information sometimes were falsified to get a loan approved. ‘You had unscrupulous loan originators out there who were willing to do just about anything to earn that mortgage commission,’ he said.”

“Horry County home sales through September have fallen 28.9 percent compared with the same period a year ago, according to the S.C. Association of Realtors. That is the largest decrease of any metro area in the state.”

“Experts, including Coastal Carolina University economist Don Schunk, say some of those speculators will let the homes fall into foreclosure rather than continue to make mortgage payments on property they can’t flip for a profit.”

“The subprime market created ‘a large number of folks who were fueling housing growth and sales over the past few years,’ Schunk said. ‘Those folks are now out of the market,’ he said. ‘That’s a big chunk of housing demand that’s been wiped out.’”

The News & Observer from North Carolina. “It’s official: The once-hot Triangle housing market is hurting.”

“Sales of new homes declined 10.9 percent in July, August and September, the biggest drop in a year, according to residential researcher Market Opportunity Research Enterprises.”

“New home sales for the first nine months of this year are now down 9.8 percent and likely will continue declining as tighter lending rules and weak job growth further reduce demand, economists said.”

“‘For the longest time, we avoided what happened nationally because of the strength of our market, but with the mortgage and liquidity problems nationally [now], nobody dodges that,’ said Hampton Pitts, division president of Texas-based Centex Homes, one of the region’s biggest builders. ‘It’s somewhat of a wet blanket over the entire industry regardless of your market strength.’”

“The slump is affecting all company price ranges, which run from $130,000 to $700,000, Pitts said: ‘Everything is a little slower.’”

“Job growth has long propped up the Triangle’s biggest industry, but a cooling economy has slowed employment increases to a crawl. ‘It’s been cut in half,’ said Michael Walden, the N.C. State University economist.”

“The result is a drag on the Triangle’s biggest industry. New home sales make up about 40 percent of the $10.5 billion housing market, and suppliers, appliance dealers and interior decorators contribute billions more dollars to the economy. Sales have set yearly records since 2003 but began falling in late 2006.”

“‘We’ve got a good housing market here, and there’s still demand here, but people [moving here] still can’t sell their houses where they’re coming from, and job growth is down,’ said Audie Barefoot, president of one of the region’s largest home marketers.”

“‘Borrowers are now paying about 7.5 percent on jumbo loans,’ said loan officer Glen Astolfi, up a percentage point from this summer. On a $500,000 loan, that’s enough to raise monthly payments $376 to $3,496. Many potential borrowers are holding off purchases, he said.”

“‘Where I see the difference is in $500,000, $600,000 and $700,000 homes,’ Astolfi said. ‘The move up guy is not happening now.’”

The Charlotte Observer from North Carolina. “Housing sales and building permits fell in the Charlotte region during the third quarter, foreclosure filings rose and construction job growth stalled as the area shared the national housing slowdown’s pain.”

“The region’s building permits fell 22 percent, compared with the third quarter last year, said Karla Knotts, a Charlotte real estate consultant. That’s a sign of slower sales to come.”

“Foreclosure filings rose 43 percent in the area, with Mecklenburg counting the most but several nearby counties showing larger increases, according to RealtyTrac. Statewide, North Carolina saw an increase of more than 60 percent.”

“Prices on existing townhouses dropped slightly while new condos saw a steeper drop, according to reports from Chuck Graham of Newton Graham Consultants. New home sales were off more sharply than sales of existing houses although prices rose more, Graham said.”

“The slide in new home sales reflects the fall-off in building permits. In Mecklenburg County, an earlier Observer review found permits have reached 10-year lows this year.”

“Single-family houses represent the majority of permits and sales, and both were down for the quarter. But the steepest percentage drop in permits came in condos, falling 58 percent. New homes account for only about one-third of total sales, but they drive more jobs than existing home sales so a slowdown hurts more. Experts say that building 100 houses puts 284 people to work.”

“Graham said that in the last week, he’s heard of three builders cutting 20 to 30 jobs each. He declined to name the builders. He said the moves come as he’s hearing ’some fairly negative sales results.’”

“Some national and local experts, including Graham, talk of recovery beginning next year for Charlotte and the nation’s housing market. But increasingly, there is concern that might be too optimistic.”

“Graham has said he expects a bottom in the second quarter next year and a return to previous highs the following year. ‘I haven’t changed it yet, but I’m getting very nervous about it,’ he said.”




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96 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-11-04 06:51:34

‘Asheville’s vibrant downtown life was one reason why readers of Southern Living magazine named the city the Southeast’s top mountain destination. By the end of 2001, 95 condominium units and 48 apartments were under development, heralding the beginning of a building boom.’

‘About a year ago, Stephanie Monson, in the city economic development office, looked at tax records and compared the addresses of the properties billed to the addresses of the people to be billed. She found that a third of the people who own residences downtown live somewhere else, making many of the downtown residences second homes.’

A slumping housing market that has already squeezed buyers, sellers and builders may soon put the pinch on another local group: students at Manatee Technical Institute.’

‘Hi-Stat Manufacturing announced plans Friday to close its Manatee County plant on U.S. 301, laying off 300 workers as the company’s parent moves the operations to China and other cheaper locales. The layoffs, to occur over the next 12 months, represent the largest in years for a company based in Southwest Florida.’

‘Boatmakers continue to struggle under the weight of the falling housing market, with Clearwater-based MarineMax Inc. saying it expects 2008 earnings below 2007 levels.

Comment by Tom
2007-11-04 09:02:47

Florida is in a recession. It’s very bad here. Prices have nowhere to go but down. The FED’s interest rate cuts keep weakening the dollar leaving less and less money leftover to pay the mortgage in a contracting economy. Florida is toast.

Comment by bill in Maryland
2007-11-04 16:34:05

B-B-But my buddy with a condo on the edge of the water in Miami and another condo in Florida keeps telling me his propery value keeps going up. Today he said his condo appraised value is $36,0000 more than a year ago. That’s the friend who sold me his 4 ounces of gold last year in the summer for $500 and something per ounce and keeps ridiculing me because I was wrong in predicting gold would get to $1000 per ounce in 2006.

Comment by postman
2007-11-05 08:38:00

the local govt is taking its last piece of the pie before it is eaten up.
south florida dont want to drop the prices, because of the entitlement mindset. they are just going fight to the bitter end. it is great for those who are on the sidelines. once banks start cutting their losses to survive, it will be over. what is really dangerous is that there are foreclosures everywhere. it is not like the banks are keeping the air on or if there is a leak, then someone is going to fix it, or anyone will cut the grass. the longer the bank waits to sell it, the worst the house condition becomes. then the buyers will ask for cheaper prices.
this is reminding me of “trading places”, sell, sell, sell!

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-11-04 16:46:29

Florida should bar Hi-Stat from selling any of its Chinese-made products in the state.

 
 
Comment by carol
2007-11-04 07:10:16

“More than 1,000 Manatee homes - or 17 percent of the market - listed for sale last week were priced at $176,000 or less, the level at which property is considered affordable in Manatee.”

What, no down-payment assistance?? Really, most the people I know couldn’t even afford “affordable” housing because they couldn’t scrape up even 5% down. Whenever our local affordable housing activists get a project going, they have to set up a nonprofit to provide the down, too..so I just don’t see how moderate income people can buy even with normal prices. Not unless people actually start saving again.

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 07:17:16

“Affordable” housing in most areas of Florida is actually in the $60,000 to $100,000 range, given the wages paid in the area and especially with the tax and insurance issues. When I see someone touting “affordable housing” over $100,000, especially on the west coast of Fla, I laugh like a hyena.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2007-11-04 08:04:59

Agreed totally.
Who are these people that decide what is “affordable”.
That means that you can “get in on the property ladder”.
But it also means the such a large portion of your income is tied to housing that you are a debt slave for the next 10-15 years until you can buy your way out.
Perhaps longer. These people decided what others should be able to ‘afford’ make me hurl and blow chunks!
Especially real estate sales people………….”you can do this, Suzanne researched it!” Puke, Puke. You sorry weasels.

Comment by I am Sam
2007-11-04 08:08:35

The funniest part is they’re 20-something newspaper reporters most likely earing well below teachers and police officers… as a fellow journalist who went through the same crap to stay in a “desirable” profession, I ask you to forgive them. They too will learn to be cynical in time.

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Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 08:26:51

Actually, I should revise my “affordable” figure for Florida lower. 0 to $80,000 max. And that max figure is for a single family. Lower max for a condo or residence in a HOA, because associations will be seeing more and more misery as this unfolds. You have to factor in the association fees.

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Comment by Tom
2007-11-04 09:04:05

Even in that price range many cannot afford the taxes and insurance let alone the mortgage payment WITH 20% down.

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Comment by DIMEDROPPED
2007-11-04 09:02:47

Hey Palmetto- And as apartments these condo conversions come in around $40,000 a unit, if that. We have a long way to the bottom here.

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 09:34:51

Dime, I think we’ll be seeing $10,000 condos in many places and HOAs and condo associations will be glad just to have the residents to pay the fees. Even at $10,000, I still wouldn’t buy a Florida condo, because I’m betting the fees will end up being about as much as a mortgage in some cases.

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Comment by desertdweller
2007-11-04 09:49:51

In 95 when housing was Down in the desert, I too, got a condo for 20k, but because economy was so bad, @ $400.for rent, tenants were few and far between. I also recall that to make ends meet, contractors and electricians got licensed to be massage therapists at spas. Licensed massage therapy schools were doing great business. Houses…not so much.

 
Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 10:07:29

“Licensed massage therapy schools were doing great business.”

LOL! It’s the stress, people will spring for a massage to relieve the stress.

 
 
 
 
Comment by spike66
2007-11-04 08:13:11

“no down-payment assistance??”

That’s a major cause of all the problems. Folks who can’t save even 5% of their income should never become homeowners. Either they have no financial discipline, or they are not earning enough to weather any changes in their circumstances…a job loss, medical bills, or a divorce. Even using a standard mortgage, without reserves, these folks would be hard pressed to hold on. Far better for them financially to rent, and to save some reserves for hard time.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-11-04 16:51:44

“More than 1,000 Manatee homes - or 17 percent of the market - listed for sale last week were priced at $176,000 or less, the level at which property is considered affordable in Manatee.”

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ulrichp/1362599/

Oh, the huge manatee!

 
 
Comment by crispy&cole
2007-11-04 07:21:26

NC is down for the count! I think everyone has now joined the party!

Pass the popcorn, now the fun begins…

Comment by crispy&cole
2007-11-04 07:22:29

“from North Carolina. “It’s official: The once-hot Triangle housing market is hurting.”

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-11-04 07:27:18

I still don’t see how people can expect housing to pull 40% of an areas economy indefinitely. It has to end, at some point.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-04 07:30:37

The Triangle housing market is now a Pyramid.

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Comment by BottomFisher
2007-11-04 10:40:05

Bermuda Triangle

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 07:37:41

This is something I’ve never understood, either. IMO, residences and commercial property are basically places where the “economy” takes place, not really a major part of THE economy. When RE becomes a major part of THE economy, we’re in trouble.

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Comment by bill in Maryland
2007-11-04 16:38:51

BINGO! I never considered that buying a house is a way to build wealth. It’s just a place to live and a way to establish roots into a community that you enjoy or that you intend to be there for at least ten years.

 
 
Comment by DIMEDROPPED
2007-11-04 09:05:46

Ben- I have been saying this for years here in Central Florida. We can’t just build houses for each other indefinitely.

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Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2007-11-04 09:51:04

It has to end, at some point.

Agreed, but when do you see it hitting bottom?

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Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2007-11-04 08:08:37

I thought it was different there.

Didn’t they have all the baby-boom retirees, and rich oil sheiks, and foreigners buying with Euros, and running out of land, and a strong local economy, etc, etc, etc, ad naseum………??

 
 
Comment by BottomFisher
2007-11-04 10:17:29

NC ….ya hooo….one of the last of the ‘bubbleblowers’ prized possessions….so now its time for the press to refuse to print any REIC comments that contain the long list of damaging lies to the public including:

But real estate is local
Our city is not affected by the bubble…our prices did not go up that much
6000 people are moving here every month
We are at the bottom
We are in a ‘little bit’ of a correction and thats good
2008 will be a good year

already elminated by the press:
buy now, or be forever priced out
real estate always goes up, long term, whatever
people are camping out for these homes
home lottery
baby boomers will be buying here in droves
low HOA’s
low property taxes

Comment by Yo Momma
2007-11-04 10:43:46

Many people in the Raleigh/Durham/CH blogs respond to nay sayers with glib expressions such as “you’re jealous”, or “I wonder if these people have spouses and children since they’re so pessimistic”. Check it out if you don’t believe it.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/raleigh-durham-chapel-hill-cary/172541-home-price-drop-increase-especially-near-5.html

 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2007-11-04 07:34:25

“‘Out here, waterfront property at a residential community like this, we have the buyers I call the ‘want to’ buyers,’ Cross said. ‘They don’t need it, but they see something they like and they want to buy it.’

Oh Yeah.. Right!….The killer RED TIDE of DEBT is coming in. SPARE ME the “Used and Abused” Realtor(BullShi$t) Crap :)

Comment by bubbleglum
2007-11-04 07:40:28

“‘Out here, waterfront property at a residential community like this, we have the buyers I call the ‘want to’ buyers,’ Cross said.

Wasn’t this guy misquoted? Didn’t he mean ‘one tooth buyers’? Cause
that’s all any person would have left in his head if he was still in the market to buy real estate nowadays.

Comment by Blackbox
2007-11-04 08:18:01

my name is blackbox, and I too am a “want to” buyer

Hello Blackbox!

Geez

 
 
Comment by rick
2007-11-04 17:56:55

That guy is hired to BS you know. So now you need to price your house right, the more expensive the better, ’cause rich people ALWAYS overpay!

Comment by postman
2007-11-05 08:40:55

do you know how many people in florida dont have 5% down?

it is going to be one hell of a storm on 2008!

 
 
 
Comment by Midwesterner
2007-11-04 07:51:25

On a credit counseling website, I found a budget planner that says conventional wisdom says housing AND utilities (this includes insurance, maintenance, phone, tv, heat, electric, water, etc. EVERYTHING) should run about 36% of your TAKE HOME PAY

lots of mortgage calculators figure off your GROSS income and less agressive is 28% and more aggressive is 36%

My husband makes twice the median income here and we never count on my income in the budget. How can these people afford it??
Even if they save nothing for retirement, etc, I still don’t see how they can pay the bills each month (most people we know are paying almost twice for house than we do for rent, and make way less)

Comment by mikey
2007-11-04 08:07:36

How can these people afford it??

The number one U.S. National Double Security Secret….
They CAN’T afford IT!

Oooops Now I LET the Cat out of the bag :)

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2007-11-04 08:18:03

This simply truth is that they can’t. That is why we have been predicting on this BLOG for about 4 years now that all this would begin to unravel.
This whole housing price scheme depended on ever increasing supply of credit, the could not be repaid, unless the prices continued to escalate, allowing serial re-financing and HELOC’s.

The marginal buyers have determined the price of houses for all of us. Those buyers were NO-Owner, NEG_AM, NO Income, Flippers. When the money stopped in August, the game was up.

The prices are trending back down to what people can afford on their incomes for new buyers. People who own their homes without debt still rely on the new buyers to “cash out” their equity.
We have a long way to go, but have made a good start.
I have been saying for a long time that 2001 prices plus 10-15% for inflation would be about right. They got to 200% of 2001, and in some cases more. We need here about a 40-50% decline to get back to a “normal” market.

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 09:45:09

“I have been saying for a long time that 2001 prices plus 10-15% for inflation would be about right.”

I’ll go 2000 prices, less 10-15% for increased insurance, taxes and fees.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2007-11-04 09:55:42

not to mention the cost of new taxes inflicted on us by the gov that we have not even begun to see..so the cost of living is going uP

 
 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-04 08:26:51

My husband makes twice the median income here and we never count on my income in the budget. How can these people afford it??

There’s the clincher they count both incomes, two extra part times jobs and probably their kids paper routes. Then they cry poor me when they can’t make the payments because one little thing happens.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-11-04 08:57:54

“…their kids paper routes.”

In the 1970s maybe. The girlfriend and I were musing about this just yesterday while people watching. Today, amongst yuppies and other movers and shakers anyway, the kiddies are actually a double drain on the family income:

1. Instead of paper routes, so many have sports and other events to attend - necessitating extra cars trips (gas & time) and the fees, equipment, and uniforms.

2. Since said kiddies are too busy there’s no one to do the chores, so a maid service must be hired.

That’s a lot of financial drain for family members who are many years and many thousands of dollars of tuition away from being productive - to their family or society.

Oh wait, they are all going to be the next Tiger Woods or Hanna Montana - that’ll make it all worth while, right?

Comment by Tom
2007-11-04 09:07:14

Friends of mine who are always broke have one kid in cheerleading and another in baseball. It costs megabucks in the driving, hotels, eating out, spending lots of time doing things. Not that there is anything wrong in getting your kids to do things but it’s $$$ and people have their priorities all messed up. I guess they think their kid will be the next Major League Baseball player.

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Comment by scdave
2007-11-04 09:33:35

think their kid will be the next Major League Baseball player ??

Yes…Many parents (Mostly Men) have visions about there children that only they can see…Its quite disturbing really…With that said, I think organized sports of any kind are very healthy for children….Gets them away from the xbox and computer…

 
Comment by implosion
2007-11-04 11:17:58

Probably, but most I see have all of them.

I still feel deprived that none of the electronic stuff was around when I was a kid. Sh*t, I had a paper route in the ’60s and our single B&W TV only had 2 channels with crappy reception. ;)

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-04 11:51:17

I delivered a daily newspaper on my bicycle for a few years, when I was a lad.

 
Comment by bill in Maryland
2007-11-04 16:46:30

Yeah implosion, same for my folks. In the 1960s we had one car in our family, one black and white television, and only took a few daytrips, hardly ever ate at a restaurant. Parents spoil their kids these days.

 
Comment by ochomepro
2007-11-04 17:16:32

used to love those nights at the drive-in theater in the old station with wood paneling on the side, hot dogs wrapped in aluminum foil that we made at home and home popped popcorn.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2007-11-04 09:58:19

LOL
yeah everyone is going to be a star..rapper, pro sport athlete or american idol..yep…future stars..or spoiled self interested brats..or was that redundant?

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Comment by SaladSD
2007-11-04 20:35:06

don’t get me started. Agrestic kids now have “lifestyles” which can’t be bothered will silly chores and presume adult privileges (ie. luxury consumer goods) without adult responsibilities (paying the bills) Yes, this adult is bitter.

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Comment by Garrett
2007-11-04 07:52:00

I would like to personally thank the “Federal” Reserve for pandering to Goldman Sachs and in the process decreasing the value of my down payment savings.

Participate in the shot heard around the world!

http://www.thisnovember5th.com/

Comment by Yo Momma
2007-11-04 20:16:11

Bypass the Fed and invest in foreign holdings, gold, and euros, then repatriate the dollars at a later time.

 
 
Comment by jinwnc
2007-11-04 07:52:26

Condoze in the mountains? I have been laughed at for saying this project won’t even get off the ground.
People said “but they’re already clearing the land…”
Now all that is there is a scarred and devastated mountainside.

http://www.thecherokeescout.com/articles/2007/11/02/news/doc472792dc1a4cc893067061.txt

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 08:09:17

“Miami-based developers Gus Abalo and partner Tomas Velasco”

Miami-based. That’s the trouble, right there.

 
Comment by scdave
2007-11-04 09:46:17

I am not sure how NC handles its developments but if that project was in California it could never remain like that….Gotta have performance bonds in place to complete “all” infrastructure before you get a grading permit…Its not only required by muni’s it is also required in the approval process with the California Department of Real Estate…

 
Comment by desertdweller
2007-11-04 10:01:22

yep, we now have lots of graded land, old signs up saying COMING SOON…and lots of area where sand will blow when the Santa Ana winds come.. Blow Sand anyone?

 
 
Comment by mikey
2007-11-04 08:02:07

Ghee…We normally CAN find a GF (a.k.a FB) to buy our coatal and or swamp waterfront properties for TOP dollar in the face of Perfect Storms, b..b..BUT this Time ” IT IS DIFFERENT …Whaaaawh

 
Comment by crazyintheOC
2007-11-04 08:25:33

Slightly OT-but I have been thinking about this for a few months.

Does any body but me feel that the fed. has totally abandoned its original mission of keeping the financial markets stable and controlling inflation. I think they are now totally beholden to the large investment banks and hedge funds to insure that they continue to make thier 50% returns and billion dollar paydays. Bernanke, by again lowering the rates again has totally trashed the dollar. I think the US dollar will become a joke and eventually lose its reserve status, then we will be the ones taking the wheel barrow of dollars to the store to buy bread.

And also this bull about “core inflation” yeah tell that to the middle income wage earner trying to feed his family with food and gas going through the roof-”oh, dont worry buddy, gas and food arent in core inflation so you are OK” ha,ha.

Comment by Vermonter
2007-11-04 09:08:41

In fairness to the Fed, it seems like a difficult proposition to factor in gas and food because there are true seasonal differences in those items. Also, like it or not inflation will eventually show up in the core because if it costs more transport food, it also costs more to transport socks and underwear. It’s the lag time that gets to be frustrating.

Hyperflation is the end of the road for the Fed and I would sincerely hope they would prevent that extreme. At that point, the currency will have to be abondoned and I would imagine that Congress would take back direct control of the money system. The Fed hangs out with and wants to support the banking system but it exists there only by the grace of Congress. They walk a fine line of attempting to enrich the banking system and not pissing off Congress too much.

Comment by skip
2007-11-04 11:59:46

n fairness to the Fed, it seems like a difficult proposition to factor in gas and food because there are true seasonal differences in those items.

The seem to have no problems seasonally adjusting home sales…

 
 
Comment by Tom
2007-11-04 09:09:06

They claim to prevent inflation but I think they are purposely causing it because they know the tidal wave on the horizon. The FED will do anything to prevent DEFLATION even if it means killing the Dollar.

It’s funny because DEFLATION would suck so what do you do? I say leave rates alone… and you raise them… then if Deflation is that close, the lower them. Try and cause a recession without causing a depression.

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 09:37:15

“Try and cause a recession without causing a depression.”

Testify, brothah!

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-04 08:38:56

Kookie, Kookie, Lend me on your tomb

“‘I’m finding more that people, just because of their credit numbers, have too much debt-to-credit ratio,’ Byrns said. ‘It’s a lot more difficult to get a mortgage today. They (lenders) are asking for additional, additional, additional information. Even within the last week before closing, they are asking for more information.’”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjqQQpj2aOo

 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2007-11-04 08:54:04

“Miami-based. That’s the trouble, right there.”

Agreed. That’s the trouble with almost the entire NC mountains’ RE market–almost all of the developers are Miami based. I would guess that about every other house in the NC mountains’ is a second house of some Florida FB.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-11-04 09:00:51

Today’s carpetbaggers are coming from the South - funny.

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2007-11-04 09:12:21

“Today’s carpetbaggers are coming from the South - funny.”

Except they aren’t Southerners. Florida ithese days is just a piece of NY and NJ that broke off, floated down the Atlantic Ocean, and attached itself to GA!

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-11-04 09:16:04

And that chunk probably has eyes on Havanna (again) someday too. Work took me to NC a few times, nice state, its too bad you have to deal with that element at all.

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Comment by palmetto
2007-11-04 09:42:04

Sigh. It’s too bad that the Miami and Orlando areas of Florida are pretty much how people from outside of the state, view the state. West Coast of Fla has more Midwesterners, many from Michigan. Northern Florida is cracker country, Jax might as well be a Southern, not Floridian, city. Of course, this is my own view.

 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-11-04 11:54:25

Jacksonville is the same distrance from Charlotte as it is from Miami, and is more like Georgia than Florida, if you are away from the beach. The great beaches start as soon as you get out of Georgia and into Florida, which makes Jax a desirable location for people who need to stay driving distance from the mid-Atlantic but want access to beaches, warm weather, good air, and a large population (e.g., a large group to train with).

On the down side, the city is a pretty gritty place with a very high crime rate, there are no good universities, and it is certainly not as friendly or genteel as, say, Charleston or Savannah or inland northern Florida cities.

 
 
Comment by Lane from Charlotte
2007-11-04 10:25:28

Hi Doug, what is the market like in and around Blowing Rock and also Sugar mt. I go skiing there, love that area. One thing for sure the market is slowing fast here in charlotte and I`m glad, I`m tired of the traffic.

Regards,
Lane

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Comment by Tom
2007-11-04 09:10:47

Florida’s whole economy is Real Estate and College Football. Both seem to SUCK this year : )

 
 
Comment by Melvin Frumph Hoppe
2007-11-04 09:11:30

here in the east bay california, el cerrito, albany, berkeley in the ‘good’ neighborhoods i don’t know, but houses are flying off the market at higher prices . I guess it really is different here. :)

Comment by Ben
2007-11-04 09:30:15

buy as many as you can

Comment by scdave
2007-11-04 09:52:35

Its spotty….Some niche markets are still very strong others are having a terrible time….

 
 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2007-11-04 09:54:09

I guess it really is different here.

Sell as many as you can!

 
Comment by BottomFisher
2007-11-04 10:52:11

I think you live too close to the airport and need new glasses

 
Comment by rick
2007-11-04 18:38:12

OMG! u must’ve been reading the Amway’s moltivatinal tapes too much. Even realtors in the bay area know that, they are saying the west bay is special and will not have the foreclosure problems like the east bay, where auctions are held frequently nowadays. :)

 
Comment by mossypete
2007-11-05 16:32:57

As Berkeley resident it’s not really that different here - it will just happen much more slowly and the drops won’t be as severe as out in the Valley. There’s not alot of spec-u-vesting here. There have been a a fair amount of infill condo and townhouse projects in industrial areas in this part of the inner bay. (F The inner Bay is still a wealthy area - still plenty of hi tech jobs and well paid folks here, and it a very desirable place to live (besides the occasional massive earthquake or fire). Well established neighborhoods rather than instant suburbs, good mass transit, freeway access(but bad traffic), shopping, culture, education etc.

I remember the last slowdown in the mid 90’s prices didn’t drop as much as they failed to rise at the same rate as late 80’s bubble upslope… they just kind of plateaued out then drifted sideways while the rest of the area caught up. Houses got pulled off the market rather than dropping prices too far.

I bought a modest 1000sf 2/1 bungalow in 91 for 235K - sold in 96 for…245K ( a net loss). We were looking for more space and were talking to contractors about an addition when a real estate friend told me about someone down the street who had to sell their 1800sf 4/2.5 for 320K due to job relocation. They bought it 1 year earlier for …320K. The previous owners bought it 2 years before that for 305K. Last year someone down the street bought a similar house about 850K which I mark as the the peak. I expect the next houses to sell on the block to be in the 600’s-700’s . Prices will probably drift around there for the next couple of years, unless there’s a total economic collapse

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2007-11-04 09:12:40

“‘I’m finding more that people, just because of their credit numbers, have too much debt-to-credit ratio,’ Byrns said. ‘It’s a lot more difficult to get a mortgage today. They (lenders) are asking for additional, additional, additional information. Even within the last week before closing, they are asking for more information.’”

“‘It depends on the credit score,’ Byrns said. ‘If it’s low, they’re going to want 20 percent down.’”

how dare those banks not lend money out to people that have to much debt! i cant believe they wont just take the barrowers word for it. if the person says they can afford it, then the banks should have no problem with loaning the money. thats the whole reason for them applying for the loan. what have these banks resorted to, wanting their money back??? LOL!!!!

 
Comment by WAman
2007-11-04 09:17:07

“‘I’ve been called crazy before,’ said Hensley. ‘I think we’re near the bottom of a business cycle and heading up.’”

This time he will be called STUPID!

 
Comment by WAman
2007-11-04 09:19:42

“‘Myrtle Beach is a speculator market and a favorite tool of speculators is the adjustable-rate mortgage,’ Harrison said. ‘Those mortgages are like throwing gasoline on a fire.’”

I bet some of these houses catch on fire.

A 450k house about half a mile from me went up in flames the other day. Was bought 2 years ago. I wonder if they received a reset letter recently.

Comment by desertdweller
2007-11-04 10:08:32

funny though about those house fires…the mortgage still has to be paid during the rebuild.

 
Comment by Tony Graupp
2007-11-04 13:51:26

Reply to WAman;
The house that went up in flames was made with “spontaneous combustible materials”….poooofff, it’s gone!!!!

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2007-11-04 09:32:12

“The number of subprime mortgages in Horry County nearly tripled over a three-year period - from 2,246 loans in 2004 to 6,112 loans in 2006. The monetary risk grew even faster because the value of those mortgages more than quadrupled - from $207 million in 2004 to $870 million in 2006.”

“Harrison said the risk for many of those loans was masked by rampant fraud in the subprime market, where buyers’ incomes and financial information sometimes were falsified to get a loan approved. ‘You had unscrupulous loan originators out there who were willing to do just about anything to earn that mortgage commission,’ he said.”

this just about sums it up. this is just one county! so much is going to happen from this mess. i really think that alot of people dont realize or dont want to realize what the magnitude of this really is! i just wish the msm would start telling the real truth about this and quit trying to down play whats really going to happen. maybe they think our govenment will find a way to fix this? it is not going to happen! this monster is way too big to fix.

 
Comment by Lane Hollar
2007-11-04 09:34:42

With regard to the inflation comparison I don`t thing fuel is a good indicator. Its too up and down. Hamburgers are a better a better gauge. Also if you have a prisus ( I don`t) them gas is like $1.00 per gallon.
Regards,
Lane

Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-11-04 10:10:22

I noticed that hamburgers are getting smaller

 
 
Comment by Renterfornow
2007-11-04 09:38:11

“Troy Dugan remembers when buyers snatched up Dugan Construction Inc.’s affordable homes almost as quickly as his Bradenton company could build them. But now buyers are scarce for the roughly 30 properties he has on the market, including a brand-new house that hasn’t sold in almost a year. ‘Two years ago, or any time prior to that, we would’ve sold that house right away,’ said Dugan.”
Poor poor old troy has to work for living and make less money now.

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2007-11-04 09:39:02

‘They’re waiting for prices to go down even more, and they’re going to keep waiting until someone says, ‘Hey guys, the real estate market’s back to normal.’”

Hey Guys and Gals, wait until 2011 or 2012 and maybe by then the market will bottom and return to normal. My best piece of advice, do not listen to the realestate agent or associations for their advice unless you desire to lose money!

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2007-11-04 09:44:25

“‘It’s a good time to buy because prices are running 30 to 50 percent of what they were during the peak, two years ago,’ he said.”

It is not a good time to buy in this area and at these prices! The “It’s a good time to buy” slogan is worn out and it is only a marketing ploy put out by the realtors to fool the public into believing it is a good time to buy. My slogan is, “It’s a good time to lose money in the realestate market”.

 
Comment by takingbets
2007-11-04 10:17:59

“‘It’s a good time to buy because prices are running 30 to 50 percent of what they were during the peak, two years ago,’ he said.”

and the story just keeps on changing!!! these stupid realtwhores need to quit using that “its a good time to buy” bull$hit phrase. i’m soooooooo sick of reading that sales pitch. they need to move on and get more creative.

 
Comment by BottomFisher
2007-11-04 11:26:48

“‘We’ve got a good housing market here, and there’s still demand here, but people [moving here] still can’t sell their houses where they’re coming from, and job growth is down,’ said Audie Barefoot, president of one of the region’s largest home marketers.”

Ahhh…Audie……..could you please run that by me again….you know….the part where you have demand here…..but no buyers?

Comment by oxide
2007-11-04 11:43:21

It’s “pent up” demand.

Comment by Dasheetze
2007-11-04 11:55:31

You can’t come up with a better slogan than “It’s a good (or GREAT) time to buy!”
C’mon.
There’s always the “Greater Fool” theory.
Dasheetze

 
 
 
Comment by Tony Graupp
2007-11-04 17:31:14

The major builder in the upscale community that I’m renting in, has taken to leasing their “NUMEROUS” homes that have been sitting-on for nearly 2 years…..YES!!! They’ ve only sold “”" 2 “”" houses this calender year…Their ad campaign of “Never Before” pricing has produced ….never again results….
They tried dropping the prices 15-20%….NO TRAFFIC…
Even with that supposed discount, their prices are still WAY to high..dropping from $225/sq ft down to $180, based on >2000 sq ft, still puts them above the $250/300,000 break point for most buyers…
I don’t know “IF” these guys are smokin, or going up in smoke

Comment by rick
2007-11-04 19:26:16

OMG, $200/sq is the price to build a new house in Bay Area! And it is still too high? What’s wrong with u people? Don’t you know that realtors with high school education are relying on you to make their Benz payment?! This is so selfish and un-patriotic!

Comment by Tony Graupp
2007-11-05 04:48:51

Reply to rick;
Land and construction costs in the South, are VERY cheap by comparison…”MOST” builders down here can construct a house for $75-90/sq ft….throw in the land @ $35/sq ft, and you got maybe $100-125/ sq ft “”" MAX “”" = COST
So, when the builders want to sell completed houses for $225/sq ft, in a deteriorating market , you know they got a problem….
100% profit margins, just ain’t going to fly….
YES….IT’S TRUE…. $76/sq ft to build the house ONLY

 
 
 
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