November 6, 2007

Nobody’s Immune From The Housing Market Problems

The Journal Gazette reports from Indiana. “More Allen County residents are putting their homes up for sale to avoid foreclosure, said broker Tony Chacon. That is adding to the large pool of homes on the market. Some Allen County houses are being sold for less than the outstanding loan balance, Chacon said. The houses that couldn’t be saved through short sales went into foreclosure. Indiana had 9,087 properties with foreclosure filings in the third quarter, according to RealtyTrac.”

“Many consumers who couldn’t afford houses before jumped into the market, thanks to low interest rates and unorthodox mortgages that didn’t require down payments, said Charlene Sullivan, associate professor at Purdue University. Some lenders pushed the envelope and lent money with little documentation of the buyer’s income. Then the lenders sold the mortgage contracts to Wall Street investors, avoiding the risk of foreclosure, she said.”

“‘It was almost like your dream money-printing machine,’ Sullivan said.”

“Colleen Maier doesn’t understand why the steady stream of potential buyers eager to tour her northeast Fort Wayne house has slowed to a trickle. Maier is caring for her daughters on her own while she waits for the Shearwater Pass house to sell. Her husband is staying with relatives in St. Louis and waiting for his family to join.”

“‘We really can’t afford two mortgages,’ she said, ’so I’m going to stay here till we sell this house.’”

“Jeffrey D. Fisher, director of the Benecki Center for Real Estate Studies at Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business…said the problem likely will continue to affect the entire country.”

“‘Nobody’s immune from the housing market problems,’ he said.”

The Chicago Tribune from Illinois. “A growing foreclosure crisis has complicated their campaign and left for-sale signs and boarded-up houses in its wake. In Humboldt Park, the number of foreclosure filings has risen at an alarming rate, from about 150 last year to more than 1,000 this year, said Hector Gamboa, program development manager at the Spanish Coalition for Housing.”

“‘I walk two blocks and I see six houses for sale,’ said Melissa Rivera.”

The Grand Rapids Press from Michigan. “Home sales in the Grand Rapids area are on the rise compared to a year ago — but experts say that’s because sellers are dramatically dropping prices. Realtors say the 11.3 percent boost in home sales is encouraging, even if the average price has dropped 28.3 percent.”

“‘I think the message there is the sellers are understanding that they have to accept less,’ said Julie Rietberg, executive director of the Grand Rapids Association of Realtors, which released the numbers.”

“The growing number of foreclosures in the area are partly to blame for the price drop. Based on association statistics, about a third of the sales recorded last month were foreclosure properties.”

“It’s not what was originally envisioned. A planned twin tower isn’t going happen. And it’s a long way from being sold out. But Icon on Bond, the largest all-new downtown housing project since 1991, is done.”

“Since the initial occupancy permits for 601 Bond Ave. NW were issued in September, three people have moved in, including father-son developers Joseph A. and Joseph P. Moch.”

“Tami Walker, a sales representative for Icon, said 63 percent of the 118 units are sold, but that includes those only reserved with refundable deposits. Some were sold to investors during the construction phase with plans to lease or resell.”

“Walker said Icon’s entry to the market during a nationwide housing slump has not helped. ‘The majority of people coming in love the condos,’ Walker said. ‘They want to live here. But they have a house to sell before they can do that.’”

“Joseph A. Moch declined to comment on Icon. He has said he does not believe coverage of the development has been fair. ‘I don’t really have anything more to say to you,’ he said.”

The Detroit News. “Ryan Homes, which made its southeast Michigan debut in 2006, will finish building 10 houses for which it already holds permits before exiting the state entirely, according to real estate agents, company employees and government officials.”

“Ryan Homes began…two subdivisions toward the end of a housing frenzy in Detroit’s outer suburbs. But a perfect storm of regional job losses, continued migration out of Michigan and national residential real estate troubles has turned the once-lucrative homebuilding business into a bust.”

“Lawrence Yun, a senior economist for the National Association of Realtors… noted that the bad news may have a golden lining for the region. ‘Fewer homes being built will give those homes waiting for buyers a chance to clear out,’ Yun said. ‘Reducing inventory is a key factor in generating a real estate turnaround.’”

The Post Crescent from Wisconsin. “If you’re ready to buy a home, perhaps because of a growing family or because you have a down payment saved, waiting a year or two for the national news to be brighter might not be the best move.”

“This could be hype from local real estate agents, who make their living by selling houses, or even bankers, who make some of their money by providing mortgages, but it could be more than hype; it could be right.”

“‘There’s a lot of inventory (of homes for sale) on the market right now so you’ve got a lot to pick from,’ said Ann Spencer, senior VP at Associated Bank, a major mortgage lender in northeastern Wisconsin.”

“It’s worth mentioning that rates and house prices could go down in the future, although historically, Fox Valley housing has never dropped. K.C. Maurer, owner of a real estate brokerage firm and a 30-year veteran of the industry, can’t recall one such price decline. What’s more likely is that appreciation slows.”

“The Midwest suffers from the double whammy of a declining housing market and economic performance that lags much of the nation.”

“‘Perhaps Cleveland and Ohio aren’t at the top of the list, but that’s like standing on the deck of the Titanic and saying we’re not taking as much water as we did the last hour,’ said Mark Wiseman, director of Cuyahoga County’s Foreclosure Prevention Program.”

“‘We’re still getting over a thousand a month in foreclosure filings and sheriff’s sales,’ Wiseman said.”

“In Milwaukee, Trena Bond sees the risk become reality every day.’I see people who, for one reason or another, fall behind in their payments. Then they refinance,’ said Bond, executive director of Housing Resources Inc. Perhaps one-third of the people who come to see Bond can hold on to their homes. Many, she said, ‘just walk away’ from them.”

From GM Today in Wisconsin. “New data on foreclosures in Wisconsin show that even one of the state’s wealthiest counties is still being affected by weakness in the housing market.”

“In October, foreclosures in Waukesha County increased by 26 percent over the same month last year, according to (a) Web site. On a year-to-date basis, they’re up 46 percent in the county.”

The Journal Sentinel from Wisconsin. “Debts overpowered 2,280 Wisconsin homeowners in October, ForeclosuresWI .com reported Monday. October’s caseload, the highest monthly volume on record at the company, pushed the Badger State foreclosure tally to 17,013 in this year’s first 10 months. That’s 28% higher than the 13,256 a year earlier.”

“Worst of all is Milwaukee County, with 4,508 foreclosure filings in this year’s first 10 months, 53% higher than a year earlier. City of Milwaukee cases, meanwhile, have about tripled, reported Todd Weiler, public information coordinator for the city’s Department of Neighborhood Services.”

“‘A year ago, we had maybe 50 foreclosures a month. Now it’s up to 150 a week,’ Weiler said. ‘Last year, we had 750 sheriff’s sales. This year, we’ve already had 1,761.’”

“Preliminary findings show ‘a lot of loans made in ‘06 and ‘07 to people who couldn’t even afford the initial payment,’ said Catey Doyle, chief staff attorney for Legal Aid Society of Milwaukee. Typically, those mortgages passed through several hands before being bundled with other loans into securities ultimately purchased by big bank trust companies.”

“‘Everyone along the way says, ‘It’s not our fault, not our fault,’ the lawyer said.”

The Star Tribune from Minnesota. “As a rising tide of foreclosures washes over them, local governments are getting stuck spending more time dealing with the growing problem — and collecting less money because of it.”

“Police officers are chasing people out of more boarded buildings. Inspectors are issuing more citations for uncut grass or unshoveled snow. Assessors are having to more closely scrutinize housing to determine its market value.”

“Member cities complain most about the time involved in tracking down owners of the property. ‘It’s very difficult to locate who the owner is,’ said Laura Harris, a lobbyist for the League of Minnesota Cities. That’s because mortgage loans are resold among lenders and investors.”

“In Minneapolis, foreclosures are a dominant factor behind a doubling of vacant properties tracked by the city’s problem property unit. That’s jumped from 360 properties last December to 718 this week. And that number could hit 1,000 by the end of next year, according to Tom Deegan, who manages the unit.”

“Deegan estimated that 80 percent of those vacancies result from foreclosure.”

“The city has spent $1 million to board up properties this year. That cost can be assessed against the property, like unpaid water bills, but it can take years until the property is sold before the assessment is paid. Deegan said the city recovers maybe 60 percent of boarding costs.”




RSS feed | Trackback URI

114 Comments »

Comment by MNAIR
2007-11-06 13:20:13

I AM IMMUNE COS I RENT !! LOL !!

Comment by kthomas
2007-11-06 14:36:22

ditto here!

Sold my home 3 years ago, God what a relief that is.

 
Comment by MattR
2007-11-06 16:19:36

We’ll see how immune you are when your savings are wiped out by inflation. I’m starting to think the smartest thing to do is buy property at *ANY* price.

Comment by Vermonter
2007-11-06 16:23:35

Then buy a relatively underpriced asset like gold or a particular stock that you follow. Even if it takes 20 bucks to buy a gallon of milk, the law of supply and demand still holds. Houses are *everywhere* and there are too many of them. Prices will go down even if everything else costs a fortune.

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:16:35

Exactly. Housing is doomed.

Now the bbc (IIRC) had an article on the Chinese hording gasoline in their apartments as an inflation hedge… Yikes! (Bad news in a tall building!)

Got popcorn?
Neil

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by HARM
2007-11-06 13:20:38

Indiana, Michingan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, etc…

But don’t worry, folks, all real estate is “local”. This whole bubble/subprime contagion is confined to the coasts –your neighborhood is safe.

Comment by Sobay
2007-11-06 13:45:27

I grew up in Indiana and have lived in California since 1966.
- Indiana and the midwest are facing total collaspe as far as the economy goes. They are even closing new Ethonal Plants. High paying jobs mean Wall Mart.

Comment by mrincomestream
2007-11-06 13:49:06

Closing new ethanol plants? Do you have a link or two to pass along about that. I’d like to read about that. I thought ethanol was booming in the midwest…

Comment by Blano
2007-11-06 13:54:33

Yeah, same here. Our governor in MI keeps touting ethanol like it’s the Second Coming.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Not_In_Montana
2007-11-06 14:55:04

Sounds like the governor in MT. Not really many original ideas out there are there.

 
 
Comment by hotairballoonguy
2007-11-06 13:56:47

so many plants have come on line to produce ethanol that the price of the ethanol is declining. it isn’t making as much sense to spend money building new plants when the commodity in question has a declining value

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by veloblues
2007-11-06 14:37:49

Just a thought: With crude oil/gasoline going nowhere but up, would that perhaps increase the demand for ethanol and bring the price up a bit?

Just thinking “out loud” so to speak.

VB

 
Comment by mrincomestream
2007-11-06 14:44:03

“…so many plants have come on line to produce ethanol that the price of the ethanol is declining…”

That’s good especially if you own a flex-fuel vehicle, my understanding was that ethanol cost as much as gas in the mid-west. If the cost can be pushed down I only see that as a good thing.

 
Comment by GPBlank
2007-11-06 16:32:50

Blend to run in normal cars is $.04 cheaper than regular gas (Detroit area). This was on a price sheet faxed to our station this morning. First time they had both prices - makes me wonder if the jobber is going to let the name brand stations take some blend. Don’t know what E-85 is running.

Side note - back in my old lending days I looked at a wheat ethanol project finance in Montana about 10 years ago. That deal killed me - a year and 1/2 of changing terms and documents that filled an office. We backed out and it never got off the ground.

 
Comment by SteveH
2007-11-07 01:28:49

My understanding (I’m not motivated right now to find references) is that ethanol is actually energy negative; it takes more energy to make the stuff than it actually provides as fuel - the only reason anyone can make money producing it is due to tax breaks. Could be wrong about this, but when you factor in such expenses as fertilizer, equipment running costs, refinery costs, transportation, etc., it just doesn’t make a lot of sense. I think the best thing the US could do as far as energy savings is raise the CAFE standards for car mileage. How long has it been since that was raised? 20 years? More? When you factor in the fact that lots of vehicles (trucks) aren’t even part of the average, it sucks. I’ll go even further. When you look at the cost of the Iraq war and think how that money, which was spent on bombs and guns and whtever, could have been used to do things like build photovoltaic cells and supply homes in the US with the ability to produce part of the electricity they use, it gets pretty weird. The Iraq war will cost, give or take, $2 trillion. Thats $2,000,000,000,000 dollars. Split that among 50 million US homes and we get $40,000 per household that could have been used for something useful, and possibly solved the oil production problem, or at least made a large dent. Talk about skewed prioities! What are they thinking in Washington, or are they?

 
Comment by Xiaoding
2007-11-07 06:08:50

Now now, don’t get political! All that “saved” money is no good if your family is dead from the latest attack in Indiana.

Ethanol is a scam, though. But raising CAFE standards is also a scam. It doesn’t work! Cars get more efficient, yes. Then more people can afford to drive! When we raised CAFE the first time, station wagons went away, to be replaced by…SUV’s! And way, way, more small cars. CAFE is a fools errand.

 
Comment by Xiaoding
2007-11-07 06:14:16

Now now, don’t get political! All that “saved” money is no good if your family is dead from the latest attack in Indiana.

Ethanol is a scam, though. But raising CAFE standards is also a scam. It doesn’t work! Cars get more efficient, yes. Then more people can afford to drive! When we raised CAFE the first time, station wagons went away, to be replaced by…SUV’s! And way, way, more small cars. CAFE is a fools errand.

123

 
Comment by Xiaoding
2007-11-07 06:16:38

Now now, don’t get political! All that “saved” money is no good if your family is dead from the latest attack in Indiana.

Ethanol is a scam, though. But raising CAFE standards is also a scam. It doesn’t work! Cars get more efficient, yes. Then more people can afford to drive! When we raised CAFE the first time, station wagons went away, to be replaced by…SUV’s! And way, way, more small cars. CAFE is a fools errand.

x

 
Comment by Xiaoding
2007-11-07 06:29:03

Sorry bout that! Took awhile for the comments to show up. ON the other hand, perhaps they bear repeating…

 
 
 
Comment by indydad
2007-11-06 13:58:15

Hmm, I live here in Indy now and I do not see any pending “total collapse”. Sure, manufacturing is contracting as a base for Indiana’s economy but it’s not completely disappearing (for example Honda is building a new plant here and Rolls Royce built a tech center a few years back). Finance and insurance has a very strong presence with many well paying jobs.

Plus, the comment about Wal-Mart is unfounded. My wife and I make a very comfortable living in Indiana, even by California standards. I do not think we are atypical.

Comment by vozworth
2007-11-06 16:10:00

most dont see it, cause they cant fathom the deterioration of the middle class as the dollar erodes.

couple that with the systemic risk, terrible infrastructure, outsourcing of manufacturing AND call center services, a sideways stock market, imploding credit bubble, housing not falling, rather CRASHING…

so its all good, order Pizza in and kick back wiht a soda.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2007-11-06 15:07:15

Ethanol is a net energy loser, meaning it takes more energy to make it than you get out of it, when all the fossil fuel inputs of the corn (fertilizer, fuel for machinery, etc) is considered. It’s a political boondoggle and a sign of just how unserious we are about our energy future.

Comment by Vermonter
2007-11-06 16:35:04

Exactly. Corn needs to be used to feed people, either directly or through livestock. Corn growing is not exactly environmentally friendly, either, although like most things brought to us by the mainstream environmental movement, it’s supposed to be our salvation.

If *managed correctly*, I’d much rather see a few oil rigs in the middle of otherwise untouched wilderness rather than the thousands of acres of corn it would take to even start to make a dent in our oil needs.

I’m starting to think I need to go the Cafe Press and print up a t-shirt that says “I hate bio-diesel” and see if I can’t attract some attention. ;)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-11-06 17:33:45

A) A farmer should be free to grow his crops and then sell them to the highest bidder
B) The highest bidder should be free to decide what to do with his newly purchased crops
C) Ethanol may or may not be a net energy loser. There are lots of ways to make it, and lots of source materials that can be used to make it.

 
Comment by Dani W
2007-11-06 18:23:54

And he should be free to do so without public subsidies.

 
Comment by Vermonter
2007-11-06 18:45:23

I totally agree: Farmers should be free to sell their crops to anyone they want for any purpose. If they want to make corn palaces as tourist attractions, I’m all for it. ;) (I’m also all for doing away with public subsidies on it..)

What I think is insane is creating a state-level or national energy policy based on a net loss energy fuel that directly competes with our food supply (if we are talking corn). It’s not environmentally friendly or even really feasible in the big picture.

 
 
Comment by david cee
2007-11-06 18:25:27

Ethanol is a net energy loser And Oil Dependancy of Saudia Arabia and Venezuala is hazardous to your living. If ethanol and oil cost the same price, and we can be energy independant, why would we need to debate this? Take away the 50 cent a gal tarriff on Brazilian ethanol, and let the auto companies bring us a flex/fuel car. It’s that simple.
But of course, George’s oil buddies might get pissed.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by motorcityjim
2007-11-06 15:29:00

There’s a house on my street that’s been alternating between for sale and for rent for nine years. It’s not uncommon for a nicely kept, moderately priced house in a good neighborhood to take two years or more to sell in the Detroit suburbs.

 
Comment by spike66
2007-11-06 16:12:29

Sobay,
There was a great quote in one of Ben’s posts last week. It was “the onely street that matters anymore is Wall Street.” The midwest, the Rust Belt, all these areas already imperiled, are being slammed with foreclosures, bankruptcies, and lowered tax receipts. When the White House/Treasury shills start babbling about “America’s strong economy” you gotta wonder who they mean.
Large swathes of the country have apparently by abandoned by federal politicians, and the outsourcing continues apace. What other country has so gleefully impoverished itself?

 
Comment by Sabrina
2007-11-06 18:10:49

California may have the jobs, but the midwest has the water.

 
Comment by Bloz
2007-11-07 01:11:03

Funny, I just moved from California to Indiana. It is sooooo much nicer dealing with the average person.

Houses here are practically at the cost of materials + labor (which is cheap). Also, one doesn’t see Mexicans all over the place because there really is no economic incentive for them to be here - wages for the uneducated are low.

Voted in the local election today, had to show a picture ID and didn’t feel one bit disenfranchised.

Comment by mongo78
2007-11-07 12:55:52

Whereabouts in Indiana? There are parts Indianapolis where all the business signs are in Spanish. It is amazing how the huge influx of immigrants from Mexico and other third-world nations has affected every single corner of the United States.

Also, I think you and Indydad are correct in that while there are definitely tradeoffs between the Midwest and California (mostly in terms of weather, scenery, and diversity), it is possible to have a great life in either place. That said, I worry about how living in place that is stagnant or dying economically can color your whole outlook on life. A lot of Midwesterners seem to hold back out of fear of failure, rather than taking risks in belief of their ultimate success.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-06 13:51:04

Interesting, as each of those moribund midwestern flyover states has a perch on the Great Lakes, which will be their salvation…

Comment by oxide
2007-11-06 14:28:56

Amen, brother. The Rust Belt is about to become the Water Belt. Remember that plea for Michigan to “give” Lake Michigan to New Mexico? Let’s see how far that goes.

Comment by JoJo
2007-11-06 14:35:59

Michiganders are now saying “If you want our water, move here”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by HARM
2007-11-06 15:00:36

or… “pay up”

 
Comment by evildoc
2007-11-06 15:05:55

if a michigander is a male fellow from michigan, would a female person from michagan be a michigoose?

 
Comment by ahansen
2007-11-06 22:49:32

Ow.

 
Comment by fran chise
2007-11-07 11:09:39

If you’ve ever lived in Michigan, you’d realize that there is a centuries old discussion about whether it’s “Michigander” or “Michiganian”

 
 
 
 
Comment by ronin
2007-11-06 14:18:55

There may be a lot of defaults in Cleveland. At the same time, this doesn’t imply there was a bubble. There was no bubble in Cleveland. Housing prices have been flat the entire century.

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-11-06 16:05:37

Hold your horses. Ohio ran into the subprime wall earlier than the rest of the country only because prices were flat when the first resets happened. Same thing happened everywhere else as soon as prices merelt flattened, like in parts of North Carolina. Also, consider that Ohio was the first state to pass subprime legistation. And they had those builder-funded non-profit groups lending people the downpayments, while the builders were secretly gouging them on the price.

The housing bubble manifests itself in many ways, including some that aren’t directly price related. People buying too much house, or overbuilding, or lax lending, for instance. Or like Arkansas, where there is a glut in houses no one can afford so they just sit empty.

Was there a bubble in Ohio? Just compare the rents to the medians, etc. And if there was no bubble, why so many foreclosures and FB’s?

Comment by Vermonter
2007-11-06 16:43:54

Many parts of VT are like the rust belt and agree completely with Ben. Lack of totally insane prices or massive overbuilding - aka California/Arizona does not indicate the lack of a bubble.

As I type this I’m renting an signficant amount of square footage in a neighboorhood that it would cost me at least $225K to buy into for $1075 per month. It’s not a totally apples to apples comparison as I’m in a 4 plex in a SFH neighborhood. However, a single family 4 bed/2 bath a few blocks away rents for $1500. The prices and the rents make no sense. The bubble is truely everywhere.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by GPBlank
2007-11-06 16:46:31

My thoughts are that prices should have been declining in the Rustbelt midwest since the late ’90’s due to declining population. The bubble hid that. So people look at relatively static prices when other areas were going up and say there was no bubble when in fact there was. Easy lending masked what should have been a fall in prices. And with the easy lending and job losses came foreclosures. Prices are now down to where they are in line with rents in many suburban areas, but I think they’ll overshoot on the downside.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Sabrina
2007-11-06 18:13:03

Is Chicago the rustbelt? Prices have pretty much always slowly gone up here about 3% to 5% a year (until the last few years.)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by oxide
2007-11-06 14:41:46

Also younger home owners are more and more accustomed to getting their home information and inspiration on the web where a variety of sites offer not just images of homes but the chance to immediately purchase the things you see and to submit your own pictures and receive feedback and help.

I vaguely remember the 70’s, when you essentially got a stack of cash every two weeks, which visibly disappeared each time you bought something. Nowadays it’s see it, click it, say, Sure just put it on my Paypal, ka-ching goes Mastercard, and it automatically comes out of your checking account. It doesn’t feel like spending money. No wonder we’re (society, not us) all up to our eyeballs in debt.

(Although, I admit I have a bad weakness for Cottages and Bungalows magazine.)

Comment by oxide
2007-11-06 14:48:07

Quick correction. The Minimum Payment for the CC comes out of your checking account, not the entire amount. Why, that would be (sort of) living within your means!

 
 
Comment by peter wiener
2007-11-06 21:47:08

“Shelter porn”?

Comment by A Texan in Bavaria
2007-11-07 07:00:11

There’s bridal porn, which is not nearly as interesting as guys probably hope it is. Shelter porn, bridal porn = silly mags and TV shows whose main purpose is to encourage (mostly) women to overconsume.

Don’t get me started on the Bridal-Industrial Complex…

 
Comment by A Texan in Bavaria
2007-11-07 07:01:24

BTW, I’m a 27 year old woman, the target audience for much of this stupidity.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-06 13:32:23

L.Y.er’s Logic

“Lawrence Yun, a senior economist for the National Association of Realtors… noted that the bad news may have a golden lining for the region. ‘Fewer homes being built will give those homes waiting for buyers a chance to clear out,’ Yun said. ‘Reducing inventory is a key factor in generating a real estate turnaround.’”

Comment by Blano
2007-11-06 13:42:40

Reducing inventory doesn’t help much when the inventory of buyers is dropping just as rapidly.

How many different ways can this guy put lipstick on a pig??

Comment by phillygal
2007-11-06 15:08:50

Maybelline’s sales have shot through the roof since Yun took Lereah’s place.

My pig likes Sugar Plum Ice

What shade does your pig wear?

 
 
Comment by ronin
2007-11-06 14:22:05

Why is it bad news when the children of today’s homeowners will also be able to afford a house?

Comment by Vermonter
2007-11-06 16:47:40

Because people very rarely get that enriching whoever is established (current homeowners via tax subsidies or sky prices) empoverishes those that are not. All they can really think is “hey, my house is worth a skillion dollars” and never get to “I wonder what it would be like to have to pay a skillion dollars for a house like this.”

 
 
Comment by James
2007-11-06 14:35:26

It just typical spin from real estate agents.

There will be an uptick in sales in the spring and to peak summer season. That will be heralded as a turn around to the uninformed.

Inventory will drop as people decide to wait it out (riding it down) and they will herald that as inventory clearing. Even if buyers are all but gone.

Just like last year.

As the sales drop and date get noisey they will trumpet any month to month gains or gains in the median price.

Just have to learn to tune it out.

Comment by turnoutthelights
2007-11-06 14:57:28

If there is an ‘uptick’ in sales, the MLS will be absolutely buried in new listings.

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:21:06

Yes, any uptick in price will flood the market. We need to expect at least one “dead cat bounce” before the bottom. I predict it will happen in 2008.

As to a plus, how is declining construction income good for a region? Yes… we’re overbuilt, but construction guys spend as freely as drunk sailors. Which reminds me of all the bottle I picked up off my brother’s property when it was being built.

Got popcorn?
Neil

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by hotairballoonguy
2007-11-06 13:32:44

I own and operate a toursim related business in Lake Geneva, WI. We have many old mansions on our lake and alot of new ones being built all the time. This is where the rich from the Chicagoland area come to play.

I was amazed to see two homes, both north of $5 million each in foreclosure.

Yikes!

Comment by Leighsong
2007-11-06 13:42:38

WOW. I’m surprise to hear any negative news in WI regarding foreclosures!

Leigh

Comment by hotairballoonguy
2007-11-06 13:49:36

Wisconsin is awash in 2nd homes. We have folks from both Chicago to the south and Minneapolis to the north that like to purchase “cabins” in our northwoods.

The only problem is that most of these folks don’t want a cabin… they tear down the old structure and put up a mini-mcmansion.

My guess is that many of these folks can’t afford these cabins anymore.

Comment by Hoz
2007-11-06 15:27:28

Up North most of the 2nd homes ‘were’ inexpensive. 10 yrs ago 1 acre in the Lac de Flambeau went for 50K, 2 yrs ago 1.5mm, now 50,000 places for sale up North.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Kathy
2007-11-06 19:41:18

Maybe I’ll be able to get my little lake place yet. That place has really changed since the 70s when my grandparents lived there. Their place on Crawlingstone Lake sold for $62,000 in 1979. It would be “worth” upwards of $500K now.

 
 
Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:22:33

My guess is that many of these folks can’t afford these cabins anymore.

Ouch… and homes won’t do well once the heat is turned off.

So how does granite countertop hold up under freezing conditions? ;) I’m thinking this is why they buy stainless steel appliances! :P

Got popcorn?
Neil

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by az_owner
2007-11-06 14:02:47

When those babies hit $0.25 mil I’m buying one. ;-) Lake Geneva is a real nice place.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-11-06 13:34:06

“In Humboldt Park, the number of foreclosure filings has risen at an alarming rate…”

Now this is getting interesting. Humboldt Park has been coming under considerable gentrification pressures from the east. The result was an across-the-board increase in prices even in areas of Humboldt Park that had not yet gentrified (generally speaking, those west of Western Ave.). So, this may be an urban version of the fringes/margins feeling the effects first, and it would likely stop further gentrification of this area dead in its tracks.

Comment by Andy in Chicago
2007-11-06 13:56:52

As someone who lived in Humboldt Park for a year about 15 months ago. (2600 W. Hirsch). It is a craphole. There is a book called ‘Once a King Always a King’ about the Latin Kings in Chicago, it pretty much gives you a thumbnail of what the neighborhood was and what it will probably be again,.

Comment by Emily
2007-11-06 14:28:45

Are there any reasonbly-priced neighborhoods in Chicago where it would be safe to walk in the late evenings? I am currently in NW Indiana and interested in moving into the city, but don’t want to give up the freedom of walking after dark.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2007-11-06 14:54:28

There are a number of safe, nice neighborhoods with liveable rents — depending on your personal taste in buildings and neighbors, I’d say Lincoln Square, Roscoe Village, Logan Square, Palmer Square, Andersonville, (parts of) Albany Park might fit the bill.

If you don’t need to live near a train line, there are even more options tucked away.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2007-11-06 14:38:34

I live just to the north in Logan Square, and know a fair number of people who live in Humboldt Park. Mostly artists and creative types — the pre-gentrifiers. There are certain streets or areas to avoid, but the places around the park (except on the North Ave. side) are quite nice.

I can tell you just from walking / running driving through Humboldt that there’s been a lot of development there, starting with the Realtor shills who started calling the eartern part of Humboldt “West Bucktown”. Humboldt has the same kind of overbuilt condo fungus that’s plagued the rest of the city, as well as a lot of folks trying to sell off their bungalows and frame houses.

(I certainly hope the gentrification of Logan Square and Humboldt Park is stopped dead in its tracks — save my city from the locusts!)

 
 
Comment by hotairballoonguy
2007-11-06 13:45:56

From the Daily Reckoning…

http://dailyreckoning.com/

“The people at the bottom are beginning to feel anxious. Many have never, ever seen a time when house prices were not rising and mortgage credit was not readily available. Many loaded up with debt when the going was good. Now that the going ain’t so good, they regret it.

House mortgage debt in the United States grew by $10 trillion since ‘99. As a percentage of disposable income, it rose from 64% to 100% - with more new debt added than in the previous 45 years combined. Add in consumer installment debt and the ratio rises to 131%.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-06 13:46:21

“The city has spent $1 million to board up properties this year. That cost can be assessed against the property, like unpaid water bills, but it can take years until the property is sold before the assessment is paid. Deegan said the city recovers maybe 60 percent of boarding costs.”

Sounds almost as if they were talking about dogs, but I digress.

Comment by reuven
2007-11-06 14:39:38

It’ll soon be cheaper to tear them down!

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:25:43

Cheaper? They could make a profit!

Start the bidding folks. I’ll pay $100 a house to dive a bull dozer through a dozen homes. Now, it would have to be one of those rather large dozers… just let me know which ones I can drive through and don’t get in my way!

Admit it, you too would want to do it. ;)

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2007-11-06 14:02:23

Fox Valley housing has never dropped. K.C. Maurer, owner of a real estate brokerage firm and a 30-year veteran of the industry, can’t recall one such price decline. What’s more likely is that appreciation slows.”

Ah, the mythical Fox Valley. We all want to live there, and they are running out of land, oh and it’s a new economy, real estate only goes up, it’s different there…

Comment by Midwesterner
2007-11-06 14:15:02

yeah, plus we got the packers!! LOL

 
Comment by Blackbox
2007-11-06 15:41:02

yep, maybe some inverted appreciation!

I bet he never saw the housing boom that hit Fox Valley either in all those 30 years or so.
Funny, how they point to past to set a mental floor on pricing, but they had no such ceiling on the way up.

Sure, double digit appreciation a year has never happened before, but it all makes sense now…………………

 
 
Comment by climber
2007-11-06 14:04:56

At one time in the 90’s I remembered hearing that Detriot had a 5 year backlog of houses scheduled for demolition. People were up in arms that the houses were not being destroyed fast enough, and the city insisted they just didn’t have the resources to do it.

Yun is completely uninformed if he thinks that a mere cessation of building is enough.

Comment by redmondjp
2007-11-06 14:29:19

Yes, but these houses to be demo’d were/are in dead neighborhoods and in their existing condition do not contribute to the viable housing pool (unless you’re a squatter). You literally can’t even give these properties away

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2007-11-06 14:10:51

“Joseph A. Moch declined to comment on Icon. He has said he does not believe coverage of the development has been fair. ‘I don’t really have anything more to say to you,’ he said.”

AW… Sounds like a bitter little brat! I wonder if his bottom lip was sticking out at the time.

Comment by Blano
2007-11-06 14:33:30

He’s just mad ’cause people aren’t flocking to his new castle in Grand freakin’ Rapids, of all places.

And good luck with that regional/out of area marketing. Where you gonna market……Cheboygan?? Saginaw?? Flint maybe??

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2007-11-06 15:54:50

Think about it. There he and his son are living in a finished condo project with one other person, He’s sortofa ultimate FB.

 
 
Comment by CincyDad
2007-11-06 14:15:50

You don’t read much about Ryan homes on here, but they are all over Ohio (and Syracuse, and elsewhere). Generally the build entry-level subdivisions, and are not know for their quality. Anyway, in addition to exiting Michigan, they announced a couple of months ago that they were shutting their SW Ohio regional office and pulling out of a number of subdivision around Cincinnati. In one subdivision, they only build 4 houses (in a 12 month time-frame) out of a planned 150 unit developement, and then pulled out. Those 4 homeowners are extremely upset to see all the vacant lots and the empty spot where the neighborhood rec center was to be built!

Comment by turnoutthelights
2007-11-06 15:13:31

They ought to form a co-op, buy a tractor and truck-farm the remaining lots. Better than weeds; it adds value; and screw the builder anyway. They just need a perspective adjustment - they’re a new breed of suburban pioneers.

 
 
Comment by Curt
2007-11-06 14:16:15

“…Realtors say the 11.3 percent boost in home sales is encouraging, even if the average price has dropped 28.3 percent.”

Calling Klownafornia!

Comment by Blano
2007-11-06 14:34:55

Encouraging because of the commissions, maybe!!!

Too funny.

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:29:40

Ummm…. commission:

111.3% * 71.7%= 79.8%.

In other words, if the last commissions were an A plus, the new commissions are a C plus. Now… I think they were getting a ‘D’ before…

In other words, they’re not chasing the market down fast enough!

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by turnoutthelights
2007-11-06 15:18:32

The data point I would really like to see is the remaining mortgage on those sold houses. I would guess the sellers bought more than 5 years ago, and more like 10. It’s more likely the genesis of a dead cat bounce and will quickly fade away.

 
 
Comment by reuven
2007-11-06 14:20:09


“It’s worth mentioning that rates and house prices could go down in the future, although historically, Fox Valley housing has never dropped. K.C. Maurer, owner of a real estate brokerage firm and a 30-year veteran of the industry, can’t recall one such price decline. What’s more likely is that appreciation slows.”

How can they say things like this?

Comment by Midwesterner
2007-11-06 14:36:35

It’s just like in the paper when they say, prices may decline slightly by 5% or so, they think they are psyching up buyers to only offer 5% below wishing price. Easy money was everywhere, and housing will crash everywhere too.

 
Comment by Kim
2007-11-06 15:47:55

They printed it in the paper… it must be true!

j/k

 
 
Comment by reuven
2007-11-06 14:40:59

“‘It was almost like your dream money-printing machine,’ Sullivan said.”

*My* dream money-printing machine prints *money* not McMansions. Lately, it’s been printing British Pounds.

Comment by safe_as_apartments
2007-11-06 14:56:34

Careful on those pounds. Methinks the UK has just as many problems as we do.

 
 
Comment by jinwnc
2007-11-06 15:38:46

39m charge for GM in Q3.
More challenging future….

Back to regularily scheduled programming.

Comment by Hoz
2007-11-06 16:06:47

$39 Billion … just a small bit of change.

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:32:50

Its the $39 BILLION number.

Dang, I hate it when I can’t recall how I spent that kind of money.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=7321561

None of the articles I found would delineate how much of the charge is GM automotive and how much is GMAC.

Will the market even notice? sigh…

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
 
 
Comment by Tom
2007-11-06 15:44:26

Folks, I am depressed. Sad that our country has been left to this by our government, Federal Reserve, Wall Street…. realtors, flippers… and mortgage brokers… I am sick to my stomach and disgust. To think that our stick market could rally when things are getting this bad and have people on TV say the economy is good while oil is going to $100 is just amazing. It seems to be this huge conspiracy…

Comment by SWAMI_E
2007-11-06 19:31:13

Yeah, its sick. When I say property is going to fall to ten cents on the dollar I get the feeling some might think I am being extreme. But I’ve known about peak oil since 1977. I’ve known since 1997 that corn ethanol is energy neutral. There’s more to this than just housing. The cost of this war is devastating. The whole system is corrupted beyond repair. Maybe that’s why gold is taking off like a rocket tonight.

 
 
Comment by housing hanky panky
2007-11-06 15:54:51

Breaking news……………

Australian official interest rates UP !!!!!!!!!!! .25%

http://www.rba.gov.au/

Comment by Tom
2007-11-06 16:12:12

WOO HOO! At least some banks around here have some balls! I see the Australian currency gaining steam ;-).

 
Comment by vozworth
2007-11-06 16:19:34

damn straight, I’M long Auzzie!!!!!

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 17:34:21

Dang…

Say goodbye to the Yen carry trade coming to the USA…

I think the SS Dollar now isn’t just low in the water, but isn’t it listing to port quite a bit to?

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by Left LA Behind
2007-11-06 18:15:28

Parity by Christmas

 
 
Comment by Jasper
2007-11-06 16:06:45

Lawrence Yun, a senior ‘ECONOMIST’ for the National Association of Realtors…

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Inigo Montoya; Princess Bride

 
Comment by Tom
2007-11-06 16:10:48

GM just booked a $39 billion charge. Makes the Merrill and Citi charges look like peanuts.

 
Comment by jinwnc
2007-11-06 16:51:57

13 billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon you’re talking about alot of money.

Comment by Tom
2007-11-06 17:13:47

Pretty soon, after inflation, 40 Billion won’t seem like a whole lot.

Comment by Neil
2007-11-06 19:05:55

Scary thing in the worst days in Germany: Housewives would go to the bank and clear out the lowest denomination notes. Why? Cheapest way to heat their homes! Yes, money to burn.

Got popcorn?
Neil

Comment by A Texan in Bavaria
2007-11-07 07:29:02

Weeellll… I wouldn’t exactly say those were the “worst” days in Germany (bad as they were), but they sure did lead to them.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2007-11-06 17:27:30

Chicagoland build-able lot supply at all-time high

Chicagoland has a 39.5 month supply of empty lots with sewer, water, and road access. Most of these lots are in the Chicago exurb areas, but the city and close-in suburbs still have an over-supply. I do wonder how well the numbers work for Chicago proper - it’s pretty rare to have 1 housing unit per lot. An extreme example is just down the street from me, where construction is going full-steam on an apartment complex where 3 lots will end up having 1000+ housing units.

 
Comment by Renterfornow
2007-11-06 18:02:46

“Lawrence Yun, a senior economist for the National Association of Realtors… noted that the bad news may have a golden lining for the region. ‘Fewer homes being built will give those homes waiting for buyers a chance to clear out,’ Yun said. ‘Reducing inventory is a key factor in generating a real estate turnaround.’”

What bubble shill?
Lereah can give you a few pointers. weak shill

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2007-11-06 19:20:20

“‘Fewer homes being built will give those homes waiting for buyers a chance to clear out,’ Yun said.”

Even if the massive drop in residential investment leads to a recession, just like the last seven times residential investment fell by over 25 percent on a national basis?

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2007-11-07 10:17:47

The Journal Gazette reports from Indiana. “More Allen County residents are putting their homes up for sale to avoid foreclosure, said broker Tony Chacon.

I am from this area and own property in Allen County, but reside in Tampa. The problem with Indiana, including Ohio and Michigan is that manufacturing and other industries has pulled out and has moved thousands of jobs to China and other countries leaving thousands of good people unemployed or underemployed, thus putting them in a severe financial downturn. The problem is there are not enough jobs filling in for the jobs that have gone to China and India and that will lead to even more of a downward impact on the housing market.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post