November 9, 2007

There Are Sellers And Real Estate Agents In Denial

The Ellsworth American reports from Maine. “The state’s consumer credit office says it already is receiving almost daily phone calls from Mainers who can’t repay their loans. ‘We know there’s a problem because of the phone calls we are getting nearly every day from consumers who are unable to make their mortgage payments,’ said Will Lund, head of the Office of Consumer Credit Protection.”

“Lund said his office initially underestimated the problem. ‘There was a perception that Mainers would be conservative and would only opt for fixed-rate loans, and Maine lenders were conservative and would only offer loans Mainers could afford,’ Lund said. ‘That perception turned out to be myth.’”

“Mainers had a higher percentage of subprime loans for cash-out refinancing than any other state in the country from 2004 through May of 2005, according to a report done in 2006 by Coastal Enterprise Inc. in Wiscasset.”

“And the subprime market just continued to grow through 2005 and 2006.”

The Boston Herald from Massachusetts. “Desperate homeowners trying to unload properties face a new obstacle: appraisers who are increasingly coming in with lower-than-expected estimates of home values.”

“David Reznikow, a mortgage planner in Boston’s South End, said he’s had two sales deals nixed at the last minute due to appraisals that came in lower than anticipated. He said some appraisals are coming in 20 percent below what sellers thought their homes were worth.”

USA Today reports on Massachusetts. “Foreclosures and pre-foreclosure sales are weighing down the real estate market in Worcester, Mass. ‘About 20% of the sales we’re doing are short sales,’ says broker David Shortsleeve.”

“He estimates that lenders are accepting losses of about 10%, on average, in the short sales. Worst hit are buyers who bought homes in the past three years with little or no money down. ‘There is no room for error,’ he says.”

The Providence Journal from Rhode Island. “Rhode Island’s housing market showed signs of quickening deterioration during the third quarter as single-family house prices dipped, sales sank and selling time lengthened.”

“Patrick Newport, a housing economist at Global Insight, said that nationwide house prices are ’starting to drop at faster rates,’ especially in areas that have been hard hit by foreclosures on risky, or ’subprime,’ mortgages.”

“‘It’s a bigger problem in Rhode Island … than in other New England states,’ Newport said. ‘Houses [are] going into foreclosure in a market already saturated with unsold homes … so you’re probably going to have steeper price declines coming up.’”

The Connecticut Post. “This is Monday in foreclosure court, and confusion, shame and heartbreak chase around the faces of debtors. Such was the case with Javier and Denise Ramirez.”

“Denise Ramirez said they moved into a single-family house in Bridgeport in December 2005. Their monthly mortgage payment was $1,789, she said. She had a mortgage with a fixed two-year introductory rate that would then reset to an adjustable rate.”

“Many first-time homebuyers,, and people with less-than-perfect credit, called subprime borrowers, took out these loans after being told they would be able to refinance before the reset to the higher rate. That strategy assumes the value of the property would rise between the original purchase and the refinance.”

“‘We were making the payments for a year and a half,’ Denise Ramirez said.”

“Denise Ramirez told the judge they had found a potential buyer who was offering them $190,000 for the home they paid $211,500 for in 2005. The judge explained they owed almost $230,000 to the bank; he set the law date for Jan. 29. ‘So it’s not enough,’ Denise Ramirez said.”

“Theirs was one of many cases handled that day. The load the courts is dealing with is so large that Connecticut Supreme Court Chief Justice Chase T. Rodgers announced the formation of the Bench-Bar Foreclosure Committee to study the issue.”

“‘The number of foreclosure cases added in court during the 2005-06 fiscal years totaled 11,764,’ the Chief Justice wrote in a news release. ‘That number increased to 15,773 for the 2006-07 fiscal year.’”

The Hartford Courant from Connecticut. “Home sales plunged in Connecticut in September by the largest percentage in a year, and the median sale price dropped by several thousand dollars.”

“The picture is getting dangerously worse for home-sellers such as Linda and Erwin Flewelling, who first listed their four-bedroom home in East Hampton for sale late last year. After several price cuts, the 2,200-square-foot house is now listed for $289,900, down from $369,900.”

“‘I am frustrated. I thought it would sell faster than it has,’ Linda Flewelling said.”

“Other numbers create cause for concern, as well. The number of houses on the market in Greater Hartford was 6,035 in September, up by 9 percent from a year earlier, and up a whopping 45 percent from 2002.”

“‘The subprime market for less-than-credit-worthy buyers has disappeared, and that was a major portion of the lending market in Connecticut,’ said Ron Van Winkle, a West Hartford economist. ‘Houses that went on the market this summer didn’t sell, and now these numbers reflect those closings. It’s a big drop.’”

“‘I guess it is going to take the right person to come in, but we really don’t want to take it off the market, and I don’t want to go lower on the price,’ Linda Flewelling said. ‘We’ve done a lot of work here. There’s plenty of activity, but why isn’t someone buying it?’”

The New York Sun. “Much has been said about Manhattan’s perceived real estate invincibility in the aftermath of the subprime meltdown, but lawyers representing dozens of condominium boards in some of the city’s wealthiest neighborhoods say they are seeing these default cases increase as much as 25% this year.”

“‘There has been a very substantial increase of cases involving condominiums,’ a lawyer who is the president of the Council of New York Cooperatives and Condominiums, Marc Luxemburg, said.”

“During the last housing downturn in the early 1990s, there was a similar increase in defaults preceding numerous foreclosures, Mr. Luxemburg said.”

“‘This could be an indication that something larger is going on,’ a partner at Breier Deutschmeister Urban & Fromme, Lisa Urban, said. Last year at this time, she had one such case of a default on common charges; now, she has seven.”

The Staten Island “Staten Island saw a nearly 4 percent dip in the cost of one- to three-family homes during the third quarter of the year, according to a report released yesterday by the Real Estate Board of New York.”

“The number of single-family homes sold in the borough dropped 40 percent from September 2005 to September 2007, from 295 to 166 homes for the monthly period, according to figures from the New York State Association of Realtors.”

“Realtor Robert Kelly in Oakwood said buyers are sitting on the fence, despite bargains and low interest rates.”

“‘I don’t think the message is getting out there that it’s still an excellent time to buy,’ he said. ‘You can take your time to find the house that’s perfect for you. If you want a house with an oak bar or a 24-foot pool in the yard, it’s out there.’”

The Express Times on Pennsylvania. “Home sales in the Lehigh Valley fell 18 percent in October compared with last year’s pace, the latest in a yearlong pattern of declining sales.”
“‘What is selling is the cream of the crop,’ said Nick Kavounas, a managing partner at Coldwell Banker Heritage Real Estate in Bethlehem. ‘If a listing is not cream of the crop, it’s going to be a frustrating experience for the seller and the listing agent.’”

“Pending sales also declined. For October, 397 pending sales were reported, 27 percent less than the 545 pending sales LVAR listed in the same month last year.”

“The drop in pending sales, Kavounas said, reveals that homes for sale are not being bought as quickly as in past years. It’s another reason sellers need to be realistic in their expectations, he said.”

“‘To me, this shows that there are sellers in denial and more importantly there are real estate agents in denial,’ Kavounas said. ‘Things are on the market that shouldn’t be.’”

The Courier Times from Pennsylvania. “Bensalem-based Orleans Homebuilders continued to feel the pain from a slumping housing market and reported a $2.1 million loss in the first quarter of its fiscal year.”

“‘We remain in difficult times for both the economy and our industry,’ CEO Jeffrey Orleans said in a conference call. ‘After numerous consecutive years of industry growth, the homebuilding market continues its dramatic downturn.’”

“‘Starting in September, we have observed increased nationwide discounting, particularly by some of the largest companies in our industry,’ Orleans said. ‘I believe they are hurting the stronger markets in an attempt to offset negative order trends in some of their regional markets. We have been forced to follow suit, and have increased our discounts and incentives. We must remain competitive.’”

The Record from New Jersey. “Monday morning Jodi Riley, payroll manager for the now-closed Hoboken Wood Flooring in Wayne, handed out what paychecks she had left to about 50 employees gathered at its Demarest Drive headquarters and advised them to file claims with the state’s Department of Labor for unpaid wages.”

“Sales were down 25 percent each month for the past year, said commercial business development manager Jerry Pryor, because of the downward spiral in the housing industry, competition from manufacturers shipping directly to retailers, and the company’s push to expand nationally and eventually go public.”

“‘New York City was carrying the majority of the company, and we were selling commercially,’ said Pryor. But, he added, ‘residentially we were dying for a good year. I think we got too large, too quick.’”

The Star Ledger from New Jersey. “When Red Bank-based home builder Hovnanian slashed its prices by as much as $100,000 during its three-day ‘Deal of the Century’ fire sale last month, customers packed the company’s sales centers and kicked home sales into overdrive.”

“More than 2,100 contracts were signed in 72 hours, a flood of activity that convinced company executives the end of the housing bust was near. Well, perhaps Hovnanian jumped the gun a bit.”

“The largest home builder in New Jersey and the sixth-largest in the nation reported a 10 percent drop in quarterly new-home orders and said sales significantly deteriorated in October.”

“Faced with a glut of unsold homes and canceled contracts, some analysts now predict Hovnanian may have to resort to yet another round of Crazy Eddie-type price cuts to clear its large inventory of houses.”

“‘Sales likely fizzled after Hovnanian attempted to pull away incentives from its ‘Deal of the Century’ promotions the weekend of Sept. 14-16,’ said Bank of America analyst Daniel Oppenheim.”

“More than half of Hovnanian’s orders in the recent quarter came during the company’s heavily hyped ‘Deal of the Century’ weekend sales blitz.”

“For the fourth quarter ended Oct. 31, Hovnanian’s contracts totaled 2,781 homes, down 10 percent from a year ago, the company said yesterday. Meanwhile, cancellations rose to 40 percent of gross contracts, up from a 35 percent cancellation rate for both the third quarter of 2007 and the fourth quarter of 2006.”

“Hovnanian attributed the increase in cancellations primarily to tighter mortgage underwriting standards. Indeed, according to the October Senior Loan Officer Survey released by the Federal Reserve this week, the credit squeeze is no longer just a ’subprime’ story. Prime borrowers are also feeling the pinch.”

“According to the Fed report, 48 percent of banks tightened lending standards on mortgages in October, and 40 percent of those surveyed said they tightened standards on prime mortgages, up sharply from 15 percent when lenders were polled in April.”

“‘This is the sharpest increase in lending standards on record,’ said Aaron Smith, an analyst at Moody’s Economy.com in West Chester, Pa. ‘It suggests the subprime mess is becoming more contagious, restricting prime borrowers’ access to credit.’”

“Some real estate experts believe there may be more to the October pull back in sales than just tight-fisted lenders turning away borrowers. While Hovnanian’s banner sale got a ton of media coverage, the fact is new home builders have been busy cutting prices and staging blow out sales since early summer.”

“And Dani Babb, a real estate author and consultant, said these types of campaigns may have done more harm than good. Homes near the ones where Hovnanian slashed prices are now effectively worth less. And this essentially deflates the price of the market and devalues existing home prices even more.”

“The result: homebuyers may be even more reluctant to buy homes because they are worried lower prices may be offered in the near future, she said.”

“Jeffrey Otteau, president of East Brunswick-based Otteau Valuation Group, said yesterday the New Jersey housing market took a turn for the worse in September for just this very reason.”

“According to Otteau, home purchase activity in September…declined 23 percent from the prior month and was 17 percent below the year-ago level in September 2006.”

“‘This negative performance provides compelling evidence that homebuyers continue to take a wait-and-see approach out of concern that home prices will continue to drift lower,’ he said.”

“Given the pace of home sales is declining, the inventory of unsold homes now represents a 13 month supply on the market, up from 7 months in March and 10 months in August.”

“‘What you have is a public that has been told over and over again, ‘Don’t buy,’” Otteau said. “Just three weeks ago, Jim Cramer says on CNBC, don’t you dare buy a house now or you will lose money … and so we have paralysis. Homebuyers are frozen like deers in the headlights




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129 Comments »

Comment by joesixpack
2007-11-09 07:43:44

“Homebuyers are frozen like deers in the headlights”
I would suggest that it is the sellers that are frozen in the headlights.

Comment by GH
2007-11-09 07:50:39

Current potential homebuyers have seen countless sheeple go down the the housing trough and get slaughtered by the mighty overpricing beast. That is not frozen in the headlights that is due caution.

Comment by Neil
2007-11-09 08:56:02

GH,

I like how you phrased that. I’m going to use variations of your working when talking to the sheeple.

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by AndrewHac
2007-11-09 10:36:39

I would never buy a house that is cost more 200K. And that is 4 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, 2 cars garage, and it better damn well be a big-ass lot all around the house. To me a house is a place you and your family live in and make it to be a home. A place that you can go to after a long day of work or a place that you are looking forward to go back to after a long trip on the road. A home is something that I read in a poster like 25 years ago in my parent’s house when I was still a kid: “BE IT EVER SO HUMBLE, THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME”. American people and American culture and society have to take this slogan in by heart and don’t ever forget it until the day you hit the 6 feet dirt. Home is a family shelter, not a stock that you buy or sell. Period !!!

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 08:23:56

Meet on the hoof.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 08:25:49

4 legs bad, 2 legs good

 
Comment by edhopper
2007-11-09 08:43:15

I have seen the term “staring contest” a few times here.
This isn’t deer in the headlights, it’s the buyers staring down the sellers.

Comment by Tiger
2007-11-09 10:57:20

That would not be a fair game. Buyers never have to buy and all sellers will eventually have sell.

Comment by GH
2007-11-09 11:29:52

You are right, and buyers have flexibility, such as the choice not to buy. Sellers - They are sitting ducks right now. Many overpaid and have to sell - no game there!

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Comment by tresho
2007-11-10 01:26:54

Many homebuyers are going to be like the couple this week who had a bull land on their car after it fell off a cliff.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2007-11-09 07:44:00

‘Starting in September, we have observed increased nationwide discounting, particularly by some of the largest companies in our industry,’ Orleans said’

‘According to the Fed report, 48 percent of banks tightened lending standards on mortgages in October, and 40 percent of those surveyed said they tightened standards on prime mortgages, up sharply from 15 percent when lenders were polled in April.’

While the media has been focused on the August credit crunch and lending standard changes in California and Florida, IMO there has been just as big an impact in the northeast.

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2007-11-09 07:47:23


“There Are Sellers And Real Estate Agents In Denial”

Denial, according to Freud, is a result of deep-rooted trauma. I personally think that trauma is what lies ahead for majority that is clueless about the crippled foundation of our economy — more and more and more debt for consumption.

Jas

 
Comment by ChrisO
2007-11-09 07:48:02

“Faced with a glut of unsold homes and canceled contracts, some analysts now predict Hovnanian may have to resort to yet another round of Crazy Eddie-type price cuts to clear its large inventory of houses.”

“Hi, I’m Crazy Eddie! Come in today and receive our Knife Catcher Special! WooHoo!”

Comment by max4me
2007-11-09 07:58:09

Crazy eddie thats from a larry niven novel the mote in gods eye

Comment by cami
2007-11-09 08:12:19

IIRC there was a Crazy Eddie electronics store in New York sometime ago, “where the prices were so low, they were insane”. The commercials were really obnoxious.

Comment by JP
2007-11-09 08:41:12

Yes you remember correctly.

And if IIRC, Crazy Eddie eventually did time, shortly after his chain went bankrupt.

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Comment by watcher
2007-11-09 08:25:49

Wasn’t Crazy Eddie an electronics salesman with obnoxious commericals where he screamed Cramer-like into the camera?

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-09 08:59:00

Yes. I remember all the commercials in the New York area when I wuz a pup.

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Comment by bayparkwatcher
2007-11-09 09:15:20

I guess he was NY’s version of our Cal Worthington here in So California. I’m middle-aged and have been watching his commercials since elementary school. Amazingly, he still looks the same. Sells cars.

 
Comment by max4me
2007-11-09 09:28:55

Didnt he have some dog named spot

 
Comment by SD_suntaxed
2007-11-09 10:11:05

From Wikipedia:

“Worthington ran a series of TV ads for his auto dealerships. They were known as the “My Dog Spot” ads because each commercial would introduce “Cal Worthington and his dog Spot!” However, the “dog” was always some exotic animal being led around on a leash, such as a tiger or elephant.

The commercial was accompanied by a jingle accompanied by the tune of “If You’re Happy and You Know It” went, “if you want a car or truck, Go see Cal, if you want to save a buck, Go see Cal,” with the “Go see Cal” part repeated at least 15 times.”

I had that song stuck in my head more than once as a kid. He was also mauled by one of his many Spots on at least one shooting.

 
Comment by are they crazy
2007-11-09 10:15:30

Cal’s been selling cars as long as they’ve been selling land at California Pines.

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2007-11-09 10:24:59

You forgot:
“I will stand upon my head
’til my ears start turning red,
go see Cal, go see Cal, go see Cal”

 
 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2007-11-09 08:35:15

I’m looking forward to homebuilders running TV ads similar to the ones run by local low-end car dealers (Suzuki, KIA, etc.). Shouting salesmen touting special deals this weekend, and even offering “the most for your trade-in. No trade? Then get even more off. We’re tearing up the manufacturer’s invoice!”

Here’s an opportunity for a creative You Tube contributor.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-11-09 08:41:12

Funny thing is a current model Suzuki or Kia might actually last longer than a house built during this boom.

 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:13:46

I’ve already seen the trade in used on houses in Celebration. That’s scary that that is using them.

Comment by reuven
2007-11-09 09:20:47

Celebration homes are visibly falling apart! Most of the “white picket fences” that were a feature on many of the homes are getting rickety, and I see siding falling off all over the place.

In Florida, everyone seems to want a “new home”.

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Comment by ronin
2007-11-09 09:30:19
 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2007-11-09 10:12:07

I’m 60 years old and those “special, one time only” car sales have been going on for as far back as I can remember. I guess the “special, one time only” house sales will be next.

 
 
 
Comment by Dave
2007-11-09 07:50:21

“Just three weeks ago, Jim Cramer says on CNBC, don’t you dare buy a house now or you will lose money”

Interestingly enough, Cramer has an ‘advice’ column in Maxim. In the last issue or the one before he recommends to someone to wait until prices hit year 2000 levels.

Comment by Tom
2007-11-09 08:00:52

He also bitched out Andrew Cuomo for investigating fraud and collusion in the mortgage industry.

Comment by exeter
2007-11-09 08:22:14

Cuomo? He must be one of dem dar dam librulls.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2007-11-09 10:08:08

Investigate malfeasance or incompetence and the terra-ists win.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2007-11-09 08:42:31

As far as Cramer is concerned , they ought to knock him off the air . This guy tells people to walk from thir houses ,he wants BB to cut the rates more so he can get a bull stock run up ,and now he tells people not to buy anything in real estate . Now hes blaming fashion models and DA’s for a sell off on the stock market ,and he even took the knife to their pictures on the air . They should change the title of his show from MAD MONEY to I”M GOING MAD.
Alot of college kids worship Cramer and as far as I’m concerned he just wants a bubble in the stock market so he can help his friends in the money and keep his stupid show alive .It’s a shame that someone like Cramer wants to use some of his knowledge to play with the sheep out there and I can’t believe how much power this jerk is commanding in the business news . Cramer is out for himself and his TV power has gone to his head .

Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 08:46:33

He’s famous for being famous.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2007-11-09 08:37:54

Cramer loves GOOG. Hope he is having a nice day.

Comment by txchick57
2007-11-09 09:35:54

and yet he told people not to buy the IPO at 85

 
 
Comment by Ostriches
2007-11-09 08:44:05

Wow, 2000 levels- weren’t the bubblists laughed at a few short months ago when this was mentioned? That said, I am thinking they may even go lower than that, but a return to 2000 levels would be satiating.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2007-11-09 07:53:15

From the Maine article:

“Mainers had a higher percentage of subprime loans for cash-out refinancing than any other state in the country from 2004 through May of 2005, according to a report done in 2006 by Coastal Enterprise Inc. in Wiscasset.”

Yet we have the occasional troll dropping happy bombs on this blog that ME real estate won’t fall and in fact “continues to go up”.

Point #2
Haven’t we been hearing how wonderful the economy is from The CrimeSyndicate Partnership of CNBC/WhiteHouse/Foxnews? “Just look at those Maine folks…. they got new RV’s, cars, boats…. The CrimeSyndicate conveniently forgot to tell you that none of it was bought with EARNED INCOME.

Comment by polly
2007-11-09 08:49:28

The funny thing is there are a few good reasons for a cash out refinancing, especially in New England where there is a lot of old housing stock and the winters can do a lot of damage.

When my parents refied (in MA, not ME) because the roof and septic system needed major repairs, they took out ONLY the cash needed to make the absolutely necessary repairs. They didn’t even have the internal walls replastered. Nothing extra for a car. Nothing extra for a kitchen remodel. Nothing extra to fix the downstairs shower. Nothing extra for a vacation. Nothing. Not only did they not do it, I don’t think it ever would have occured to them. Oh, and a bank would never have suggested it.

Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:20:25

There was time when second mortgages were given only to do repairs, remodeling or additions to you house. The money was paid directly to the contractors as the work was completed, just like new construction. Cars, RV’s, boats etc. were only financed with the item used as collateral. Vacations, etc. were done with an un-collateralized loan at a much higher interest rate.

Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-11-09 11:15:27

yeah, this boggles my mind. The funny thing is, you can take that no questions asked money, and go buy another overpriced property for ‘cash’ and not insure it to save money. LOL

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Comment by bicoastal
2007-11-09 13:01:29

“‘There was a perception that Mainers would be conservative and would only opt for fixed-rate loans, and Maine lenders were conservative and would only offer loans Mainers could afford,’ Lund said.”

I admit that I, too, thought Mainers were more sensible. Most of the people I know here seem incredibly tight with a nickel, not the kind to sign documents without reading them. Maybe the “Mainers” who’ve gotten suckered with ARMs are From Away.

Comment by exeter
2007-11-09 14:44:23

“Maybe the “Mainers” who’ve gotten suckered with ARMs are From Away.”

No question. And they’ll be going back to away again. :)

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2007-11-09 16:14:44

“Maybe the “Mainers” who’ve gotten suckered with ARMs are From Away.”

“No question. And they’ll be going back to away again.”

Unfortunately, that’s wishful thinking. Mainers, as a group, are no smarter than anyone else. In fact, when you do a little digging, you find that a large percentage of people losing their homes are longtime owners.

I like Maine. I’ve considered moving to the Portland area from Western Washington. One concern I have had about Maine is the whole “from away” business. It seems that people make quite a fuss about someone who is not a native. I always believed that what mattered was the core of the person, not the geographical location in which they happened to fall out of their mothers vagina.

Comment by exeter
2007-11-09 16:55:11

I have to tell you you’re waaaaay way off on the outsider issue. I’ve watched this cycle before and a majority the fallout of cycle busts are outsiders. It’s fact.

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Comment by hd74man
2007-11-09 18:19:41

BB~

Your perceptions of being “from away” are not misplaced.

As one native said to me-If your mother went into labor and delivered you in the back seat of a car while still on the southern side of the bridge crossing over the Piscataqua River from NH into ME…you’d still always be known as being from “away”.

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Comment by hd74man
2007-11-09 18:13:40

RE: “Mainers had a higher percentage of subprime loans for cash-out refinancing than any other state in the country from 2004 through May of 2005, according to a report done in 2006 by Coastal Enterprise Inc. in Wiscasset.”

Why should this be any great revelation-Maine is the northeast’s Mississippi. 1st in taxation-38th in per capita income. They are paying day to day government expenses with bond floats.

They get away with it, because you’re average taxpayer doesn’t understand what a bond is.

Exeter-The Portland crowd live in their own little liberal world.
They are the quintessential Marie Antoinette’s of Vacation Land.

Maine is in deep doo-doo.

All those social welfare jobs which replaced all the light mfg. mill work only pay a third as much.

Cost of livin’ is a killer.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 07:59:56

Remember The Maine!

“Lund said his office initially underestimated the problem. ‘There was a perception that Mainers would be conservative and would only opt for fixed-rate loans, and Maine lenders were conservative and would only offer loans Mainers could afford,’ Lund said. ‘That perception turned out to be myth.’”

 
Comment by Tom
2007-11-09 08:05:21

I don’t know if anyone saw Ron Paul rip into Bernanke but he just won me over with that one.

Does anyone here use reddit? These are all the Ron Paul posts. You can easily create an account and vote and as you vote they will appear on the front page.

http://reddit.com/search?q=ron+paul

Comment by auger-inn
2007-11-09 10:36:07

I’m an equal opportunity basher. Here is what the Demo club was up to today. Gee thanks for listening to us there Dems!

The Senate passed its version of the Department of Defense (DoD) Appropriations bill (H.R. 3222), which included a provision by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) to set aside $3 billion for border security, but the House-Senate negotiators, under guidance from the House Democratic leadership, removed the $3 billion in conference.

 
Comment by Rally Mitigation Team Member Bob
2007-11-09 10:41:04

Could somone please tell me why the hell it’s okay to obviously shill a presidential candidate on a blog when it’s rightly not okay to shill products or services?

Comment by auger-inn
2007-11-09 10:58:56

Let me take a stab at this one. Perhaps because Ron Paul is the only candidate interested in preserving our constitutional rights and correcting the monetary scheme that is going to result in the bankruptcy of the US and thus hopefully saving your ass and mine in the process (or at least those of our children). By Ben allowing his very popular blog to actually bring attention to the positions of said Presidential candidate he is providing coverage that is necessary to offset the blacklisting this truth-telling candidate is receiving in the MSM. It’s a balancing act for Ben and he does cut off widely divergent thread topics. Occasionally the folks here go off on a tangents unrelated to housing per se but they are usually short lived and often helpful. Just my 2 cents.

Comment by bicoastal
2007-11-09 13:05:26

Does this mean that this blog supports Ron Paul? Would people posting about another candidate’s economic positions be allowed to do so?

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Comment by are they crazy
2007-11-09 13:02:29

Are you looking at the complete candidate? He’s small government on the financial issues but very BIG government on social issues. He’s a running as a Rep and is obligated to uphold their entire platform. But, worse, he has no chance at all of even getting the nomination. Right or wrong one can’t get elected without party support. Why isn’t he running as an Independent?

 
 
 
Comment by cami
2007-11-09 08:10:31

“Mainers had a higher percentage of subprime loans for cash-out refinancing than any other state in the country from 2004 through May of 2005, according to a report done in 2006 by Coastal Enterprise Inc. in Wiscasset.”

Well it’s a good thing that there’s no national bubble and the problems only exist in CA and NV and AZ and MA and FL ( and ME and …)

 
Comment by wmbz
2007-11-09 08:16:52

I don’t want to go lower on the price,’ Linda Flewelling said. ‘We’ve done a lot of work here. There’s plenty of activity, but why isn’t someone buying it?’”

Over and over again they keep popping up, delusional home sellers. Sorry sweetie I know you don’t want to because it’s not fair but you need to lower your price dip$hit!

Comment by spike66
2007-11-09 08:34:08

I’m with Linda. Don’t lower your price, hold out. You deserve to get what you want. Be encouraged by all the “activity”. Then, in a few months, when the comps have lowered another 50k, you can rethink your position. But not now. Why give your house away now, when you can give it away for even less later. You have a sound grasp of market principles Linda, and don’t let anyone dissuade you. We need sellers like you Linda, you are the entertainment for the folks here.

 
Comment by Robert in florida
2007-11-09 08:54:13

“why isn’t someone buying it?” ECON 101 buddy!
Must have skipped class when the topic of supply and demand was discussed in reguard to price?

 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:23:27

I think there’s plenty of activity because people are checking out houses now, so that when the market totally corrects, they’ll know which ones they’re interested in lowballing.

 
Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-11-09 11:17:57

There’s also plenty of activity when women go window-shopping.

 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-11-09 08:19:56

por que?
why does a state have a
“The state’s consumer credit office”
enablers

 
Comment by WT Economist
2007-11-09 08:31:15

“The result: homebuyers may be even more reluctant to buy homes because they are worried lower prices may be offered in the near future, she said.”

I know it has been 25 years since college, but wasn’t I taught demand goes down when prices go up, and up when prices go down? Is that still what they teach in school?

Comment by sean_from_NVA
2007-11-09 08:50:39

No they don’t. The new way of thinking is that there will always be a high demand for overprice POS, and that free money is everywhere if you ask for it.

 
Comment by DC_Too
2007-11-09 08:53:35

That applies to consumables, not “can’t miss” investments, silly.

 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:27:04

One thing I do know is the higher the price, the lower the pool of buyers. That’s if banking is run like it should be and didn’t give out loans to any walking corpse. It did work that way, up until about 4 years ago.

 
Comment by Darrell_in _PHX
2007-11-09 09:30:14

Depends if demand is specualtion driven or end-user driven.

End-user demand goes up when prices fall. But for the past 6 years we have not had an end-user driven market.

For speculation driven markets, demand goes up when prices go up. Once prices stop going up, speculation driven demand goes down. If prices are falling, speculation driven demand goes WAY, WAY down.

We won’t return to an end-user driven demand curve again until total cost of ownership is in-line with cost of rent.

Comment by DC_Too
2007-11-09 09:46:55

Uh, oh. Darrell, if you are right, then my neighbors to the right and my neighbors to the left, who are both selling and have both cut their price by 5%, are still 30% too high.

Ouch.

 
 
 
Comment by polly
2007-11-09 08:33:26

Problems in NYC?

Please tell me this woman will be out of business soon:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/fashion/08storr.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

“Looking for someone to curate your life? Need a personal concierge whose expertise is not picking up dry-cleaning but helping chose your wardrobe, your tastes, your friends? Ms. Storr calls herself a personal manager, but her duties go far beyond that. Her clients, all of them men, pay monthly fees of $4,000 to $10,000 to have her be their personal decider in nearly all things lifestyle-related. “

Comment by exeter
2007-11-09 08:40:24

How many more words can one use in lieu of “hooker”?

Comment by Blano
2007-11-09 09:53:16

How about 6, as in…..

“she currently works with eight men”.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-11-09 08:44:09

“…but her duties go far beyond that.”

Oh my, oh my. What an eloborate cover Ms. Storr has concocted for herself.

 
Comment by wmbz
2007-11-09 08:57:44

“Allison collects people and shares them.”

Sounds like she found an easy way to separate people from nice chunks of cash and they are happy to pay her.

Comment by AndrewHac
2007-11-09 13:16:33

Quote:
#####

“Allison collects people and shares them.”

Sounds like she found an easy way to separate people from nice chunks of cash and they are happy to pay her.
#####

Go Allison, that’s my girl. Allison is practicing the most honorable and oldest profession on Earth since human discovered fire. Two thumbs up for Allison. You GO GIRL !!!

Heeeee, heeeee, heeeee…..

 
 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:34:56

First off if Ms Storr picked out the clothes Ms Kohee is wearing, that right there would tell me she hasn’t looked at a fashion magazine in years. It would be great if you’re nine months pregnant or going for the blimp look. I sure wouldn’t put that on my home page if I had an internet site. Ms Storr is not the eqitome of sophistication either. Wouldn’t give me a lot of confidence to spend money for her services. However, that said, there’s a lot of people with more money than brains. Plus, remember, money doesn’t buy class.

Comment by bicoastal
2007-11-09 13:08:22

“money doesn’t buy class”

But it can buy people who have class.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2007-11-09 09:51:01

When I see stories like this, I want to first puke, then I think that indeed, we as a nation have grown too big for our britches.

 
Comment by MattR
2007-11-09 10:25:32

Why all the hate on this? This is my dream job — finding a way to charge the idle rich a ton of money and pretty much doing nothing in return.

 
Comment by auger-inn
2007-11-09 11:12:53

Hey, I got one of these “deciders”, didn’t know I could go ala carte though. Damn.

 
 
Comment by Catherine
2007-11-09 08:46:00

“‘I don’t think the message is getting out there that it’s still an excellent time to buy,’ he said. ‘You can take your time to find the house that’s perfect for you. If you want a house with an oak bar or a 24-foot pool in the yard, it’s out there.’”

Words fail me here.
I guess there might be a cottage industry for some industrious little boneheaded ex-flipper to “getting the message out there”…like, maybe flyers on cars and twirlers on corners.

Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:37:01

‘You can take your time to find the house that’s perfect for you. If you want a house with an oak bar or a 24-foot pool in the yard, it’s out there.’”

You can take your time alright. Probably the next 3-4 years.

 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2007-11-09 09:51:57

The time is excellent and getting more excellent by the day. Knife catching is a dangerous business to be in.

 
Comment by Blano
2007-11-09 09:54:39

Or personal managers, maybe (see above).

 
 
Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 08:48:47

Great foreclosure cartoon in our paper today.

http://cagle.msnbc.com/politicalcartoons/PCcartoons/margulies.asp

Comment by Ghostwriter
2007-11-09 09:40:24

Sorry they changed the above link, however it’s great too.
Try:
http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/archives/margulies.asp?Action=GetImage

 
 
Comment by Judicious1
2007-11-09 08:50:09

“Much has been said about Manhattan’s perceived real estate invincibility in the aftermath of the subprime meltdown…”

I think it’s a few years too soon to be throwing a word like “invincibility” around. What is this, the bottom of the second inning?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 08:52:29

“He estimates that lenders are accepting losses of about 10%, on average, in the short sales. Worst hit are buyers who bought homes in the past three years with little or no money down. ‘There is no room for error,’ he says.”

Oh yes there is…

It’s called a debtor’s prison, and there’s a cell call waiting for many.

 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2007-11-09 08:55:48

BOSTON (MarketWatch) — Former Citigroup chief executive Chuck Prince will receive stock options, grants and other benefits worth an estimated $29.5 million when he retires, according to a regulatory filing late Thursday.

Thanks for investing in Citigroup SUCKER!!

Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 09:18:15

The artist formerly know as, will become a Prince in another country, soon…

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 09:22:39

A friend worked for citibank for eons and retired early, and has virtually all of his investment eggs in their stock…

I explained to him their ceo’s brazen lies, in regards to exposure and told him to sell it all, get out.

He was a little upset at me for saying this, believe it or not.

Comment by Blano
2007-11-09 09:56:31

Don’t leave us hanging….did he bail in time??

Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 10:12:23

He moaned about it going from 42 to 35, and said it was a good company and they’ll bounce back…

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Comment by Hoz
2007-11-09 10:22:00

LOL

Maybe, maybe not

There were a lot of people that bought C, BAC, WFC et al for dividends. Since July 31, the dollar has dropped over 10% and Citigroup and Bank of America have lost $100B in shareholder equity. Great job. The dividends don’t look to secure now.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 11:46:06

Who knew the Rapture would come, but pertain to do re mi, not you and me?

 
 
 
 
Comment by climber
2007-11-09 10:15:30

I just had an argument with some co workers. I claimed that stock market investors were stupid. This just proves it. Investors are so stupid they pay tens of millions to someone who can’t do their job. A smart investor would never get roped into the stupid contracts these CEO’s foist on them.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by Tom
2007-11-09 09:37:20

They are ASSUMING that prices will increase in 2 years. I see a lot of private equity, crazy money, hedge funds, and vulture funds losing their asses! Will they need another FED bailout?

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2007-11-09 09:08:44

Veteran’s Day is a bank holiday. I wonder who is in the mood to hold stocks over a three-day weekend?

A stock market correction of 20% or so may be what is required to end the denial in NYC.

Comment by palmetto
2007-11-09 09:40:58

Weird market today, looks like it wants to go bumpity-bump along a floor. Do I hear 13,000 anyone?

Comment by matt
2007-11-09 10:26:25

The recoveries off the bottom are weak. This is a WS temper tantrum, ” i want a rate cut NOW!”.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 09:09:04

“‘It’s a bigger problem in Rhode Island … than in other New England states,’ Newport said. ‘Houses [are] going into foreclosure in a market already saturated with unsold homes … so you’re probably going to have steeper price declines coming up.’”

It’s not as if they can blame it on too much land, to build upon…

 
Comment by Tom
2007-11-09 09:41:20

It’s funny watching stocks bounce around “190″ : )

Comment by arroyogrande
2007-11-09 09:45:29

What happened to “Goldilocks”? You know, the economy that was “not too hot, and not too cold, but just right?”

Who was it that said that she would be “biting the pillow when the bear came home?”

Comment by polly
2007-11-09 11:01:21

Why the heck does Goldilocks get credit for things being just right? She just came in and stole from the hard working Bear family. My recolection is that it was Baby Bear (little prodigy that he is) who had gotten everything just right.

Does the Baby Bear economy not have the same ring to it?

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-11-09 09:45:02

Reuters reports that Lehman Brothers’ (LEH 55.27, -0.84) Chief Global Bond Strategist sees the “deepest correction” ever in structured finance and the current market is in “recession-risk denial”. The Chief Bond Strategist also expressed the opinion that the U.S. credit crisis is now worse than the one caused by�Long-Term Capital Management.

Comment by Hoz
2007-11-09 10:10:08

LTCM was a cake walk compared to this. That involved $25B with $4B in equity. The Federal reserve does not even know if there is any equity by any player. The equity is $4T and supporting (in the US) is $415T.

When Mr. Bernanke said about the CDOs, “I just want to know what the damn things are worth,” a reasonable investor would have bailed out of any stock, bond, fund or insurance company that had anything to do with CDOs in every country.

Comment by Dave
2007-11-09 10:36:07

“a reasonable investor would have bailed out of any stock, bond, fund or insurance company that had anything to do with CDOs in every country. ”

I am trying to ensure I have done just that. Would you be willing to explain how we can tell if our investments include this toxic garbage?

 
 
 
Comment by colorado_renter
2007-11-09 09:49:37

Ha ha ha, As if we don’t have enough homes.
From Yahoo! Finance:
“The government is selling off lighthouses for as little as $30,000, and some adventurous retirees are turning them into luxurious getaways. Learn how to become an owner of a very unique retreat..”

http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retirement/article/103846/For-the-Golden-Years,-a-Bright-Idea?mod=retirement-lifestyle

Comment by climber
2007-11-09 09:56:09

Their timing can’t be any worse than the Bank of England selling tons of gold at ~$270/ ounce.

 
Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-11-09 11:28:39

The first thing I thought was maintenance. What if there’s a leaking oil tank, OSHA will be all over your ass to the tune of $5 million for cleanup. The thing falls over 10 years later and becomes a hazard to navigation, another $5 million dollar cleanup. Only a dumbass would buy a lighthouse.

Comment by Houstonstan
2007-11-09 12:15:23

a beacon of stupidity ?

 
 
 
Comment by climber
2007-11-09 09:50:35

“‘We were making the payments for a year and a half,’ Denise Ramirez said.”

“Denise Ramirez told the judge they had found a potential buyer who was offering them $190,000 for the home they paid $211,500 for in 2005. The judge explained they owed almost $230,000 to the bank; he set the law date for Jan. 29. ‘So it’s not enough,’ Denise Ramirez said.”

People fuss, but in cases like this foreclosure is a blessing. The Ramirez family isn’t losing a home, they’re walking away from a disaster. They can make a home somewhere else for a whole lot less money is my guess.

Comment by bicoastal
2007-11-09 13:32:15

But why didn’t the bank accept the short sale? Do they think they’ll get more than $190K in Feb. ‘08? I don’t get it.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2007-11-09 09:51:49

The housing and credit bubbles has bearly been pricked already and the housing slaves and CC debtors are are already whinning and crying.

When the home equity vapors hit the flame and ignite, that will really be the BOOM heard around the World :)

 
Comment by Sean
2007-11-09 10:19:43

Anyone know what’s the population number in the 4 states of California, Arizona, Florida and Nevada ? They are leading the downturn in housing and economy, and I think by population stats, we can have a feel of the impact to the rest of the country.

I thought I read somewhere that it is probably 1/3 of the country population.

Let’s see the stats I just dig out from Wikipedia — Cal (37 mil), AZ (6.6 mil), Fl (18.1 mil), and NV (2.5 mil), so total about 64.2 mil.

With USA population of 300 mil, this translate into 21% !

By the way, if we add in MA (6.4 mil), Michigan (10.1 mil), Ohio (11.5 mil), and Greater Washington DC (0.5 mil for inner city, but I assumed 2 mil for greater DC), so total up 94.2 mil.

These adds up to 31.4% of US population hard hit by weak housing and auto market.

Comment by packman
2007-11-09 11:24:15

Don’t forget:
NYC and NJ
Colorado
Oregon and Washington
NC mountains and coast
Hawaii
Baltimore and Philadelphia
Parts of Idaho, Wyoming, Montana
Coast of SC and GA

Those are very bubbly areas as well.

All in all - I’d say about 60% of the U.S. lives in areas that have what I’d consider bubble pricing.

Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 11:48:26

How are our territories doing, did they play along in the bubble?

U.S. Virgin Islands

Puerto Rico

Guam

Comment by njchris
2007-11-09 14:38:08

I know they were building multi-million dollar homes in St. John’s this past May. I’ll let you know next May when we go back for our 1st anniversary.

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Comment by climber
2007-11-09 11:54:04

In Colorado it was the Tech bust in 2000 and poor excessive debt due to lax lending standards. Our housing prices bubbled during the ’90’s, so when folks talk about house prices going back to 2000 levels they’re being optimistic for CO, here I’d guess it’s more like 1995 prices that will be tested.

Comment by In Colorado
2007-11-09 12:44:26

They built a ton of “cheap” houses (150K or so) out here for the $15/hr subprime crowd. That was our bubble.

Sure wish we had the 100+% appreciation. I would have sold the house, pockected the profit and rented.

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Comment by In Colorado
2007-11-09 12:45:43

The sad thing is that a lot of people who bought in 2000 and didn’t Heloc will find themselves underwater.

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Comment by PhillyTim
2007-11-09 12:19:49

You mean all the above places are where “everyone wants to live”, right?

 
Comment by cami
2007-11-09 13:36:28

Let’s not forget Minnesota and the Twin Cities.

 
 
Comment by veloblues
2007-11-09 11:26:53

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 
Comment by AndyInJersey
2007-11-09 11:30:58

alls well, don’t panic. Merely a flesh-wound.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2007-11-09 12:03:45

“David Shortsleeve” yikes…

USA Today reports on Massachusetts. “Foreclosures and pre-foreclosure sales are weighing down the real estate market in Worcester, Mass. ‘About 20% of the sales we’re doing are short sales,’ says broker David Shortsleeve.”

I don’t think (Fannie) Mae West was talking about foreclosures, but who knows?

“A man in the house is worth two in the street.”

 
Comment by Observer
2007-11-09 12:47:28

Don’t look now but the PPT is starting to crank up this afternoon.

 
Comment by Robert Carbuccia
2007-11-10 08:35:19

I agree that most agents and home sellers are in denial of the foreclosure market. So far this year we’ve negotiated over 180 short sales between NY and other parts of the country. People really need help out there and as realtors we’ve gotta step up to the plate serve the community in need.

 
Comment by Dennis
2007-11-10 22:13:26

I am a Realtor in Erie, PA.
In Erie County (PA) in September 2007, there were 352 sales for a total amount of $41,605,601 vs 461 sales in September 2006 for $48,780,110. Then in October 2007, there were 437 sales for $50,540,472 vs 432 for $47,279,377 in Oct 2006.

 
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