Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For December 1, 2007
Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
About Me
Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
PayPal is a secure online payment method which accepts ALL major credit cards.
Links
-
April 2024 M T W T F S S « Sep 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Photo Submission: hbbphotos@gmail.com
View the HBB Photo Gallery *updated 4/13/2008
Any tax gurus here?
I borrowed money from my HELOC and invested in the stock market and made some money in 07. Can I deduct my interests from my gains? What IRS form should I use? Or should I just adjust the basis of my stock purchase accordingly on my Schedule D ?
Thanks and have a good weekend to all.
It’s December 1st, and one of the many Grinches who will be stealing Christmas is in our midst.
Interest on a HELOC is deducted the same way mortgage interest is deducted. Itemized deductions are on Schedule C. You’re not trying to double-deduct, are you?
‘Itemized deductions are on Schedule C.’
Don’t take any tax advice here, please.
Sorry, Schedule A is for itemized deductions!
If you want tax advice, you should go to a professional!
Ben is a professional (accountant, that is…).
Yes, but I haven’t worked in tax in years and it’s a field that one must stay updated on. (I never liked tax anyway)
Well, Ben, I am no tax professional myself, but nonetheless I do itemize (but on Sch A, not Sch C!)…
I find it really interesting and I do keep up on it. Sick, I know.
I helped someone capture the equity gain in a house a couple of years ago by that method. He even did the right thing and paid off the heloc.
For tax advice, my personal favorite website is http://www.fairmark.com. They are very informative and helpful.
For tax advice, I always ask Steve Martin.
Schedule C is for business revenues and expenses. Schedule A is for mortgage interest deductions. You need to see a tax accountant. Laws change every year.
“I find it really interesting and I do keep up on it. Sick, I know.”
I have the same illness.
Ben:
Fortunatly, I have paid off my mortgage years ago and I do not do Sch. A any more. Other wise I could have deduct it in Sch. A.
Soliciting tax advice in here is tacky. Go pay for a pro.
No, and there is no way he’s going to be in line for a bailout if he ends up upside down either.
Oh, the Who-manity.
No. The mortgage interest is not deductible under any circumstances EXCEPT if used to finance your primary residence. You would have been better off with a margin loan. The interest on your HELOC is lower, but you are betting the house.
You cannot be serious. Tax advice from a housing board?
PS Don’t trust tax advance from anyone with a handle that has three L’s and no spaces.
…or even two “L”s and no spaces (cynicalgirl)…
“Workman said foreclosures won’t drop until property values start going up. Until then, he half-jokingly urged Floridians to pray for snow - in hopes of persuading winter-weary northerners to look southward.”
Like that proverbial SNOWBALL’S CHANCE in HELL” ?
Yeah..Lot’s of Luck in this and in upcoming years there Frosty
I suggest you put the proceeds of your big stock market gains to work in the real estate market. Real estate is the best investment.
All over the world
It’s the Real thing - Loans
And they sang…
I’d like to buy the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees
And snow white turtle doves.
Agreed. Buy now or be priced out forever.
Real Estate always goes up. They aren’t making any more land and other sayings. Did anyone think this saying automatically ?
Before you claim an interest deduction you might want to read FRB Regulation X which extends the margin rules for lenders to certain borrowers. If not sure about how it applies to you then consult a lawyer with experience in that area. The following is from the FRB Compliance Guide for Small Entities.
“Regulation X extends to borrowers the provisions of regulations governing the extension of credit by brokers and dealers (Regulation T) and by banks and other lenders (Regulation U) for the purpose of purchasing or carrying securities. A borrower who obtains credit within the United States to purchase or carry securities issued by any company is subject to Regulation X only in the event that the borrower willfully causes the credit to be extended in contravention of Regulation T or U. Generally, a borrower who obtains credit outside the United States to purchase or carry securities issued by a company incorporated in the United States is subject to Regulation X if the borrower is a “U.S. person” (a company incorporated in the United States, a U.S. citizen, or a U.S. resident) or a non-U.S. person controlled by or acting on behalf of or in conjunction with a U.S. person.”
Borrowers subject to Regulation X have the burden of ensuring that the credit they obtain conforms to Regulation T or U.
I’m not a tax guru but I do my own taxes. Sounds creative to deduct your HELOC interest from your stock gains, but does that mean that you won’t deduct it on your Schedule A? Or are you planning to deduct it both places? Use turbotax - it won’t let you cheat.
The IRS answers these for you.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc505.html
Look for items 1, 2, and 3 in a list for the three types of home mortgage interest you can deduct.
Thanks.
irs.gov should always be your first stop for that kind of tax question. It doesn’t answer every question you will have, but it is generally very well done.
I am not a tax pro, but I stayed in a Hamptons Inn Express last night.
Can’t wait for the Dec 28th stare down as the congress tries to save their favorite high-deduction coastal states from the AMT.
Deepest Correction…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=ah1avXfvpNak&refer=news
Looks like there was a distinct absence of KoolAid at the referenced JPMorgan Chase conference.
“Standard & Poor’s 15-member Supercomposite Homebuilding Index tumbled 62 percent this year as of yesterday, the largest drop since the benchmark was started in 1995. The companies have lost about $35 billion of market value.”
At least the top managers of some of these companies were able to pocket $100m’s of stock market gains back in 2005 before $35 bn went up in flames.
The house always takes it’s rake.
Wow deepest housing slump since WWII. This keeps marching backward. I’m sure it’ll end at the great depression.
“I’m sure it’ll end at the great depression.”
Why? How much did housing drop in the Depression? I’ve heard somewhere about 25% Most here expect to see a larger drop than that.
Average house price drop from the mid-1920s to mid-1930s was 80%. Hopefully, we’ll see the same.
Tom,
I believe that farm/ranch land dropped 80% but houses? Do you have a source?
My source for the farmland estimate is ‘Transaction Costs and the Present Value Model of Farmland: Iowa 1900-1994′ by Sergio LENCE and Douglas MILLER in the American Journal of Agricultural Economics May 1999. They estimated that the price of Iowa farmland had dropped 75% from the 1920 peak.
As The Comic Book Guy from the Simpson’s would say:
“Worse housing slump ever!”
Did the pilgrims take a bath getting out of England?
The falling dollar
Losing faith in the greenback
Nov 29th 2007
From The Economist print edition
How long will the dollar remain the world’s premier currency?
THE long-run value of all paper currencies is zero. That is a fond saying of Bill Bonner, goldbug and publisher of the Daily Reckoning, a contrarian financial newsletter. So why should the dollar be any different? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s president, seems to think the long run is now: two weeks ago he decried the dollar as a “worthless piece of paper”. And Jim Rogers, a famously shrewd investor, asks why anyone would buy dollars.
http://economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10208445
BTW, is subprime still contained? This article suggests perhaps not. From the article:
Subprime currency
…
The dollar has weathered these (past) storms. But now it faces a nasty squall that combines both cyclical and structural blasts. Its decline in the past five years has imposed a huge capital loss on foreign-exchange reserves. If this becomes too painful, central banks may be tempted to cut their losses and dump their dollars, causing a slump in the currency’s value. The lure of selling is made all the greater by the knowledge that other central banks are overloaded with dollars too. Those that get out first have more chance of saving their capital.
America’s thirst for overseas funding is another reason to fret. For years it has spent more than it earns, running up large, persistent current-account deficits. Last year the shortfall in America was a whopping 6% of GDP. Bridging that gap requires foreigners to buy dollar assets—bonds, stocks or property. But the more overseas debt that America runs up, the greater the risk that it will partly default on its obligations, either through currency weakness or inflation.
These vulnerabilities are not new but they are made worse by an economy that is turning sour. Losses on subprime mortgages have intensified the housing downturn in America and poisoned its credit markets. The threat of recession has prompted two interest-rate cuts, and more reductions are likely. Faltering growth and falling interest rates make for a weak currency, particularly when growth prospects elsewhere seem rosier. And the downgrades to credit-related securities once deemed top-notch have hurt the reputation of America’s capital markets.
“Those that get out first have more chance of saving their capital.”
3rd Down Punting…
I think this is more like snapping the ball through the back of the endzone to avoid getting the punt blocked. It’s better to give up 2 points than to give up 7.
Despite Ahmadinejad’s sage financial advice being offered for free as a humanitarian gesture, he may be doing the ‘Saddam’ before too long.
“…he may be doing the ‘Saddam’ before too long.”
Sounds expensive.
insurance is expensive .. until it’s needed. Then it’s a bargain.
What if the insurer has no reserves left because of too many recent “claims payments”?
ok.. money is tight right now so let him have his nukes. There’ll be plenty of time to worry about it later.
“… let him have his nukes.”
Seems like we are between Iraq and a hard place…
‘ let him have his nukes.’
Keep looking at the phony issues while the PTB rip you off. How long have they dangled that string in front of your eyes?
Ain’t that the truth. I trust more what I hear coming from Caracas and Teheran more than what I hear coming out of Washington.
Even then, I think they’re all just different breeds of poisonous snakes.
I expect it to still be dangling four years from next November.
maybe you have a point. Although he admits the uranium enrichment program continues despite three UN resolutions, perhaps it’s a bluff. Perhaps he an environmentalist at heart, and despite floating on a sea of oil, nuclear power is attractive to him. Perhaps pigs will fly.
It’ll be at least 10 years before a substitute for mideast oil is practical. In the meantime, for our own sake and for that of the civilized world, we are committed to maintaining stability in the region, imho.
“…perhaps it’s a bluff.”
Was any yellow cake uranium involved?
Was any yellow cake uranium involved?
How can anyone know without going in and taking a peek?
I’m having a déjà vu moment..
but then, if you want to believe the UK Guardian..
In its most eye-catching finding, the nuclear watchdog confirmed that Iran had installed 3,000 centrifuges for enriching uranium, enough to begin industrial-scale production of nuclear fuel..
When spinning at full speed, the centrifuges are capable of producing sufficient weapons-grade uranium (enriched to over 90% purity) for a nuclear weapon within a year.
http://tinyurl.com/2ql4lb
“Keep looking at the phony issues while the PTB rip you off. How long have they dangled that string in front of your eyes?”
FAWKIN AMEN!!! Fear… smoke… mirrors… boogeymen… Fixed News….
When will the clueless ever get a clue?
Pssssst…
Where can I score some enriched nutcake u-cranium?
“In the meantime, for our own sake and for that of the civilized world, we are committed to maintaining stability in the region, imho.”
I wish we were more committed to maintaining stability in this region right here. 9/11 occurs and what do we do? Fly every high level Arab and relative of the Bin Ladens out of the US,courtesy of the US Taxpayer, while US airspace is forbidden to domestic travel for a few days. Then we leave the borders wide open to illegal immigrants, while legitimate tourists and visitors are probed within an inch of their lives. Hispanic youth are being urged to jihad in the US by columnists like Andres Oppenheimer. Dubai and UAE and other foreign companies are being offered to purchase the assets of the US taxpayer (and in doing so, bring in their own disgruntled illegal workers). Just about every other night on the news the two Arab students in Florida who got nailed for having bomb materials spit and grin in from of the cameras in their orange jumpsuits and yet we keep giving out student visas like after-dinner mints. The rule of law in the US is trashed in the name of “national security”. None of this makes ANY sense.
Why are you much more likely to get pulled over doing 57 mph in a 45 with nobody around, when you are posing absolutely no danger to anyone, than when doing 83 in a 65 in heavy traffic, courting extreme danger? Because it’s easy, it’s profitable, and it makes it look like somebody is doing something. THAT’s the sense of it. Same situation currently applies to immigration and travel.
In hindsight i suppose we coulda done better. At the time there was no appetite for deporting anyone, and the threat was seen as coming from islamofascists. I still wonder if Vicente Fox had more than a few terrorists who tried to pass through Mexico killed or locked up down there..
Anyway, it seems that focusing on the funding aspects of the problem has been successful… so far.
and we keep giving out student visas.
Not only that they get many, many scholarships as our kids in the US struggle to pay for college.
“it seems that focusing on the funding aspects of the problem has been successful… so far.”
For what it’s worth, there is no concrete evidence of this, and I personally am willing to bet the rent that if street corner drug dealers in Detroit turned into mortgage ripoff artists then Al Qaeda and friends have been funding themselves via mortgage fraud. Ben had a thread about a year back in which the FBI reponded to mortgage fraud inquiries with the answer “We are not interested in housing”.
If Palladin were here he could better answer this, but he has wisely dropped out of sight, after being advised to do so, by the agencies he was contacting.
Ah, yeah… Iran a threat. My list of threats to the American way of life:
1. Massive irresponsible government spending racked up by mostly military industrial complex and entitlement programs
2. Demographic time bomb (boomer retirement, SS, medicare)
3. Peak oil - religion or not, it’s coming. Of industrialized countries, we are least prepared
4. Climate change - not going to argue w/ you on whether it’s man-made or not, but I wouldn’t be buying coastal property as a generational investment.
5. Freak disaster in major population/financial center. For example, massive earthquake in Ca. or tsunami. Both of which would dwarf the impact of a small rogue nuke.
6. Worsening income inequality / stratification, disappearance of an educated middle class (and the resultant risks to the democratic process)
…
998. Nuclear-capable neighbor Canada, which could build an A-bomb within 6-12 months with sufficient motivation. Canada invaded just over 200 years ago, and appears ready to strike again.
999. Iran - hasn’t invaded another country in 250 year, vested interest in a stable gulf region due to reliance on oil exports, already pinned down by Israeli nukes, and biggest threat would be their response to US or Israeli attack.
“I still wonder if Vicente Fox had more than a few terrorists who tried to pass through Mexico killed or locked up down there..”
joey, google something called “Triple-Border” in South American. I believe it is where Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay coincide.
Iran being pissed off by being downgraded to a 3rd rated Islamic nuclear power after France becomes the first.
France is a great country. I spent 3 months there on contract. Great people, great culture, great food.
I’m more concerned about sharing the roads with drunken illegals than I am about Iranian nukes.
and we keep giving out student visas.
Not only that they get many, many scholarships as our kids in the US struggle to pay for college.
****It has been that way since the 70’s when my fellow classmates were denied Medical school stateside but all the spots got filled by Foreigners. More than a few US citizen MDs are originally schooled in Italy, Mexico, the Caribbean etc and it aint right.
What is PTB ?
Powers That Be
George Washington to FOREX markets: “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”
Dollar gains as a stronger Wall Street eases worries over US economy
The Associated Press
Published: November 30, 2007
NEW YORK: The dollar rose against the euro, bucking data that hinted at an economic slowdown, and closing out a week during which Wall Street rose.
The 13-nation euro currency was worth $1.4636 in the late afternoon, down from $1.4753 Thursday. The dollar also climbed against the pound, as the British currency traded at $2.0569 Friday, off from $2.0613.
The Swiss franc and the yen, both popularly used in “carry trades,” fell against the dollar as investors’ taste for risk returned.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/30/business/NA-FIN-MKT-US-Dollar.php
Do lower returns (e.g. interest rates) normally make purchasing an asset more attractive? ME CONFUSED…
Dollar rises against major currencies
http://www.chinaview.cn
2007-12-01 09:27:19
NEW YORK, Nov. 30 (Xinhua) — The dollar rose against major currencies Friday on profit-taking in the euro and month-end squaring up of positions by corporates.
The dollar was also boosted by words from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, which gave investors more reason to believe further interest rate cuts could be on the way.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-12/01/content_7178649.htm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-12/01/content_7178649.htm
The dollar was also boosted by words from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, which gave investors more reason to believe further interest rate cuts could be on the way.
Why would that news would strengthen the dollar ?
I have the same question. But maybe the reason is no asset, including funny money, goes in a smooth downward line or upward line. Gold dropped below $790 per ounce Friday. Also a strange occurrence in light of the rumor of further interest rate cuts. I figure $900 per ounce gold in the next few months if interest rates get cut this month.
Bill - I think the $660 to $760 move was a strong-hands move but the $780 to $840 was a weak-hands move. I’m looking for continued residual selling into the Fed meeting and probably a weak or initial tepid reponse to Fed activity. But when the next up move comes it’ll be as big as the last move. l agree $900 within the next few months.
Today’s WSJ cites a contrasting theory offered by a currency strategist (”Dollar Moves Higher on Data” p. B16):
Despite the dollar’s impressive performance, some nonetheless warned currency investors that the price movements are unlikely to be the beginning of a long-term reversal in the currency’s weak trend.
The price action was “clearly not in line with economic fundamentals,” said David Powell, currency strategist at IDEAGlobal.
“The Chicago report was a catalyst for some dollar gains, but the technical level being broken was what gave it momentum to hit those two-week highs versus the euro,” he said.
The manufacturing data don’t suggest “a change in the fundamental picture,” he said, adding that firm expectations of further Fed interest-rate cuts next month are likely to continue to weigh on the dollar. Lower interest rates tend to weaken the dollar as they reduces (SIC) the return rate for investors in dollar-denominated assets.
I heard that the other GS (Goldman Sachs) has called a bottom in the dollar.
I heard that many REIC spokespeople called bottoms in the housing market for late 2007 back in the earlier part of this year.
Premature bottom calling is a good way to set up sheeple to become future bagholders.
Love the Economist cover…
George looks dashing, amongst the flames licking at him.
I thought he looked rather stoic.
Their past couple of covers have been really great.
The “Jaws” homage with a stars-and-stripes bikini-clad swimmer a week or two ago was a particularly nice one, I thought.
O/T - I was looking for the cover and saw a link to the “Namibian Economist.” Being curious, I checked it out and found this entertaining story:
http://www.economist.com.na/content/view/2531/1/
Watch these Phoenix used house salespersons try to explain “The Secret” on The Day the Market Turned, Nov. 30. Now’s the time to buy in paradise! Don’t believe the media!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Qtx9fVsoc
If there’s so many people moving into AZ why are there so many houses for sale? Where are these people living?
In drop houses… they’re all illegals.
Wow. The Realtors really are a cargo cult now, aren’t they.
Focus positive energies. Visualize the success you want. Be positive and surround yourself with positive people….
And, they blame the negative media for the market turning… please. The market turned while the press was still full of happy stories. The press had to be drug kicking and screaming to the story.
But they do give some info I didn’t know.
30,000 used house sales people in PHX.
We had 3600 transactiosn in Oct and 3000 in Sept. About 1 transaction per 10 used house sales people. Ouch! So at this rate, they can expect to do one transaction per for a whole year.
They also let slip that they are in it just for themselves…. We just need to go out and get one buyer each. Not said is.. lie, cheat, steal, even screw over your own parent if that is what it takes to turn the market.
And then they return to the cargo cult mentality…. 1000 extra houses sell and that is good news, and that will turn the market. Then we’re off to the raes again.
Oh, and they add the chant that there is demand out there. Not NEARLY enough to absorb the supply.
The Future?…
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/schiff113007.html
“Amazingly, the Journal reported that Mrs. Brandon bought the house in 1985 for just $105,000, but had chosen to refinance five times over the past seven years, borrowing more than $500,000 and spending every single penny.”
This is where loan officers of prior generations would have said, ‘Lady, you’re nuts. We can’t afford to hand out money that will never be paid back.’
“Had this homeowner behaved responsibly, as was typical for Americans of prior generations, her current monthly mortgage payments would likely be less than $600 and the remaining balance on her loan would be about $40,000.”
And had lenders behaved like those of prior generations, she would never have ‘acquired’ enough rope to hang herself financially.
That’s what gets a little old about the “blame” game.
Lenders failed. Borrowers failed. The government failed. We ended up with one giant mess because very few could see their way clearly enough to say no.
Mrs. Brandon bought the house in 1985 for just $105,000, but had chosen to refinance five times over the past seven years,
In eight more years she would have owned her home free and clear, and would likely be on track for early retirement. Instead, after 22 years of making mortgage payments, she is now $625,000 in debt. The article stated that she had recently tried to refinance into a 6%, forty year, fixed-rate mortgage, but it fell through. Even if she had qualified, she would have been obligated to make monthly mortgage payments of close to $4,000 until she was in her nineties.
The loans started 7 years ago and that’s about when I started seeing credit getting easier and easier to get. She didn’t get loans prior to that since 1985 because she probably couldn’t qualify.
Plus who with 5th grade math couldn’t figure out that if you’re 51 and you owe $625,000 you’d be paying until 91 @ $4000/mo. Did she think the balance was going to magically disappear. Sorry, but they all deserve what they get the stupid buyer, bankers, credit card companies, etc.
Our intention with this web site is to get the word out to compulsive spenders who are still suffering. Our message is that you are not alone and that you too can find peace and serenity through the twelve steps of Spenders Anonymous, as we have.
http://www.spenders.org/
I hear that losing your home and moving into a cardboard box can cure compulsive spending.
And will she get the new rate freeze? That’s what fries me - people like this that chose to take all her equity and blow it will now get a deal that one way or another will cost me.
That new freeze wouldn’t cost you. She would still be on the hook for $4,000 per month. The freeze would merely keep that amount from resetting upward. The Paulson Putz Plan would do nothing to help her if she can’t afford the $4,000 payment to begin with. Stick a fork in her. She’s done.
Long ago we wondered here what it would be like if people had to pay cash for a house they wanted to buy. While it is wishful thinking to even imagine that sever a retrenchment in credit, it seems increasingly plausible to me that we could get part-way there. In an environment where house values are declining, what sane lender will lend even 90% of the purchase price? I sure wouldn’t. And what would the insurance cost? If we get to 20-25% down payments, which I think was the least you could put down 100 years ago, then we would have some really serious downward revaluation of properties and an absolute bonanza for those of us who stayed in cash and out of the housing market.
All I’ve ever wished for in this bust was a return to 1997-98 prices, adjusted solely for inflation. But there are some scenarios dawning in which prices could fall noticeably more than that.
“Most people, when applying for a 30 year loan, believe that the bank weighs their creditworthiness on if they can carry the note to term. In reality, the bank wants you to either move or default on the loan at about the seven year mark.”
Why the seven year mark? Because that’s the zone of maximum profit for the bank. Mortgages are specifically structured to yield the most interest to the mortgage company in the beginning of the loan. By keeping the payment level over the life of the loan, you are paying mostly interest at the start of the loan, and mostly principal by the end of the loan. The banks risk to return ratio on the money that they’ve loaned you is richest at the start of the loan.
How Banks Make More Money on Foreclosures
If banks actually want a borrower to default and s/he does, it seems to me that particular customer would be considered quite valuable.. Getting another loan from that bank should be easy.
“In reality, the bank wants you to either move or default on the loan at about the seven year mark.”
In reality, the bank only wants you to default on the loan if the value of a prospective REO sale net of the loss on the defaulted loan plus marketing costs still comes out positive. This strategy is far less likely to work to the bank’s advantage when home prices are dropping at a record rate (like they are currently).
the argument is predicated on the idea that lenders want to get their hands dirty .. that, instead of getting checks in the mail, they enjoy dealing with foreclosures, evictions, REO property management and sales. I doubt it.
Countrywide can, as americas largest lender that was what they did best repossed your house and re-sell it for profit, well not anymore haha now they are soooooooooo screwed.
At least Mozillo’s grandkids will get to go to the best colleges that money can buy. He has a lot of education to pay for. Don’t you know?
My “marketing costs” take into consideration the nonmarket cost of getting ones hands dirty. This is no big deal so long as real estate is going up by 10%+ each year.
The bank probably wants you to move with 7 years. I can’t imagine there’s any model very profitable that involves repossessing a probably damaged asset and then keeping up on taxes, marketing costs, etc.
I’ll 100% know that the crazy lending has ended when the mortgage companies stop offering reverse mortgages to people other than 88 year olds. I’m have to admit that I’m still trying to figure out, other than with crazy number messaging, why it’s a good deal for the bank to take on a guaranteed repossession.
“I’m have to admit that I’m still trying to figure out, other than with crazy number messaging, why it’s a good deal for the bank to take on a guaranteed repossession.”
It only appears rational if either (1) real estate always goes up, or (2) bailouts are a likely prospect when real estate stops always going up.
I’ll 100% know that the crazy lending has ended when the mortgage companies stop offering reverse mortgages to people other than 88 year olds.
Ha! They’re doing just the opposite. One ad I saw lowered the eligibility age to 60.
As far as foreclosures go, the one Foreclosure Guy I know has a sale pending on his house. He owes the bank $500k and they are considering an offer of $399k. The sale is listed as “Pending” on the MLS.
Any guesses as to how this will pan out? I think the lender won’t take a 20% hit at this stage in the game. But, Foreclosure Guy may get lucky, who knows?
(he originally listed the house for $699k about five months ago - and turned down a written offer for $630k)
“(he originally listed the house for $699k about five months ago - and turned down a written offer for $630k)”
And I bet he thought he was “shrewd” when he did that. Another wannabe Donald Trump without the daddy that has $3 billion to bail him out of any stupid decision.
Have a co-worker who owns home in Pompano, oceanside or near and (2nd home) turned down 1.7 m says she/husb Know it is worth 2.3m…
At work we all chimed in and said TAKE IT..
But she “knows better”.
Maybe so…she is wearing the GIANT sparkler. Someone was a sucker.
“Why the seven year mark? Because that’s the zone of maximum profit for the bank.”
The logic escapes me. If every other thing is constant, the rate of return on outstanding balance remains the same. Calculating rate of return on original balance when that has been paid down doesn’t seem logical.
The thing is, if you get a $100k loan for 30 years and pay on it for 7 years, I’d bet you’ve only paid down $10-12k. There’s still a lot of principle left that people could default on. 15 year loan would be at more of a break even point.
One little thing has changed, BubbleViewer. House values and prices are going DOWN. Banks are losing their @ss on every foreclosure.
I don’t necessarily agree with the article. I just posted the article in light of the proposed “Hope Now Alliance” wondering if it was possible the Hope Now Alliance is being formed to help the banks to make the most money on the forecloures.
Seems that not all investors are overjoyed at the prospect of a govt-mandated windfall to mortgage lenders (and short term windfall to FBs until it dawns on many of them that they still cannot afford to repay their massive debts)…
Some Investors Fault Plan to Aid Home Borrowers
By Deborah Solomon, James R. Hagerty and Lingling Wei
Word Count: 1,400 | Companies Featured in This Article: Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac
WASHINGTON — A government-led plan to freeze interest rates on certain troubled subprime home loans drew criticism both from investors who foresee losses and from some analysts warning that it will merely prolong the pain of the mortgage crisis.
But others said the Bush administration was making the right move to stave off dangers in the housing market. Shares of major home lenders moved higher.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119646960597110177.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news
It looks more like a plan to squeeze FB’s for as much blood as possible, before foreclosure. Lenders are probably worried about a big drop in cash flows as foreclosures increase. If they can keep some of these FB’S making interest payments longer, their getting something rather than nothing, in the meantime. Ideas like this could kill the real estate market for a decade, foreclosure will be spread out over a longer period of time. I would suspect that the principal balance on these “frozen rate” loan would increase and the FB will still owe more an their house than it’s worth, in ten years. They will become glorified renters to the lenders. Smart FB’s will walk away and start the rebuilding process. The sooner the better.
“It looks more like a plan to squeeze FB’s for as much blood as possible, before foreclosure.”
That was my thought. Hasn’t poor Plankton already been subjected to enough bloodletting by now? You can’t squeeze blood out of a rock.
It’s good to squeeze the FBs. The FBs will keep much needed liquidity flowing into the market. The liquidity needs to come from somewhere; it’s better it comes from the FBs than from the those of us who chose not to get caught up in the borrow/spend nonsense.
Did you all see “Rationality vs. Regret” is this morning’s NY Times?
http://tinyurl.com/2cq7cq
It’s the ultimate foolish buyer article, from a NY Times staffer, no less, the second one in the last week to admit to being an FB.
From the article:
“NOW I knew that our best choice was the one that would let us sleep at night, the one that would deal out the fewest surprises and give us a bigger cushion against unforseen events.
“But logic rarely has the final say in these moments.”
The author, M P Dunleavy (a card-carrying FB), writes an advice column for the Times regarding handling money and is the author of the book “Money Can Buy Happiness”.
Ya just can’t make this stuff up.
I could not believe it either. I was horrified. As I was when Michelle Slatalla (the NYT online shopping columist) confessed, a couple of weeks ago, that she had an ARM that was about to reset. I can’t believe that people will admit (in print!) that they are so monumentally stupid. But then again, if I was about to go into rehab, I wouldn’t announce that to the press either. Perhaps I am old-fashioned.
“The author, M P Dunleavy (a card-carrying FB), writes an advice column for the Times regarding handling money and is the author of the book “Money Can Buy Happiness”.
“Ideas like this could kill the real estate market for a decade, foreclosure will be spread out over a longer period of time.”
Also what I think: This sort of proposal, which appears to trade off near term pain for larger pain later, risks morphing the U.S. real estate market circa 2007 into a replical of the Japanese real estate market circa 1990. Particularly worrisome is the potentential to discourage further investment capital flows into the mortgage lending pipeline.
Perhaps this is part of the plan. Deep pockets waiting on the sidelines will get more attractive fire sale discounts on future real estate purchases if the lending industry shudders its operations for a few years.
They are trying to throw a floor under the market. At least it isn’t a blanket bailout, flippers and McMansions aren’t on the menu.
shutters??? or shudders??
you’re right lenders are trying to spread out the foreclousures to prevent firesales on their properties if they all show up on the market in the same year.
But the bottom line is if prices “stall in the fall” people still are not going to be able to buy the houses. Prices are still way too high. All I see is some people defaulting later and the houses in foreclosure not selling, just sitting, rotting.
Seems to me that it will just leave the market frozen along with the teaser rates. Values will stay the same, buyers will wait it out, sellers won’t be able to sell at the continued inflated prices. I’m guessing the theory will be less FBs listing houses, supply stops going up, people afraid the market is turning will jump off the cliff via Wiley Coyote and the stampede will ramp up clearing off the excess inventory and keeping the comps high. Only part they didn’t figure is not many people will be able to buy without the exotic loans and new underwriting requirements.
Yep, probably will take at least 2 years to work off inventory.
The fact that remains is this: In all the attractive places to live (Los Angeles beach cities, Orange County, San Diego, Florida, and some cities in the northeast), prices of homes have more than doubled since the earlier part of this decade while incomes went up only 2% or so per year. Prices are way out of line. No matter if there is a freeze on interest rates, house prices are way too frigging high! People are smarter today and are realizing that speculators have driven the markets in all the good areas. Whatever move the socialist politicians will make to try to prolong the bubble - it won’t fool the fence sitters.
You are right on, except in the hot areas houses have more than doubled. Some are 3-4x what they were pre-bubble. That makes the situation even worse.
“People are smarter today”
I’ll take $100 of that action, Bill. I will take the under.
lol
from what i understand, this will only apply to people who have been current on their house payments and they also must have equity in their homes.
Under discussions in Washington, relief would only be provided to homeowners who remained up to date on their payments but can’t afford the higher rate they will face. Homeowners whose property values have dropped below the value of the mortgage would not qualify.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/071130/feature.html?.v=1
“The days of American borrowing to consume are finally coming to a long overdue end.”
It’s about time.
Testify Combo - the best part of this entire debacle is that people might be forced to stop with all the spending, consuming, attentionwhoring nonsense. When people are forced to live within their means they might have to develop some sort of talents, character of selfworth that’s not dependent on being nouveau riche. People might be forced to find value in others based on accomplishment, integrity, personality instead of plastic surgery and luxury autos. People might actually start valuing their families, friends and neighbors again and parents might actually start paying attention to their kids instead of chasing after dollars and teaching their children to be rampant consumers. Rain finally stopped in the desert, but now the winds are up and they always set me off. Time to add a shot to the am coffee.
I have a mental picture of a chart measuring the deterioration of American social mores and values that peaks out and ends in a blow-off island reversal. Those caught on this island are the Paris Hiltons of the world, the lost souls caught up in the desperate unsatiable mania of me me me, more more more.
From this peak, forced by moral and economic exhaustion, begins an reawakening of long dormant core values that will clean out all the excess and reverse our country’s decline.
Heres hoping your vision comes to pass
We must have a coffeeklatch soon for all desert dwellers and visitors from the OC, Neil etc..HBBers
The bad news announcements from BB and other Fed officials is being taken on Wall Street as a firm commitment to make sure the stock market keeps going up, no matter what winds buffet the Main Street economy. The stock market correction is officially over, and there has never been a better time to buy stocks.
More Business news
Stocks mostly advance after big run-up
Tech shares lag after Dell report disappoints
By Tim Paradis
ASSOCIATED PRESS
2:53 p.m. November 30, 2007
NEW YORK – Wall Street closed out a volatile week and month with a comparatively mild performance Friday, ending mostly higher on encouraging words from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. The major indexes ended the week with gains, but still posted big declines for November.
…
In a speech late Thursday, Bernanke said persistently tight credit conditions, the housing slump and high energy prices will probably create some “headwinds for the consumer in the months ahead,” and the central bank will have to be “exceptionally alert and flexible.”
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20071130-1453-wallstreet.html
I wonder whether the audience booed him out of the room?
By Jeannine Aversa
ASSOCIATED PRESS
2:30 p.m. November 30, 2007
WASHINGTON – Federal Reserve policymakers should consider the impact of turbulent financial markets on the economy’s health when weighing interest rate decisions, a Fed official said Friday.
“It makes no sense to let the economy suffer from continuing declines in stock prices for the purpose of ‘teaching stock market speculators a lesson,’” William Poole, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, said in a speech to the Cato Institute.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20071130-1430-fedmarkets.html
Freedom Poo(d)le
“In the present situation, many investors in subprime paper will take heavy losses and there is no monetary policy that could avoid those losses,” Poole said. The Fed’s policy objective “is not to prevent losses but to restore normal market processes,” he said.
Don’t normal market processes include processes that would occur in a “free market”?
Is this how you move deflating assets off your books?
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Builder Lennar Corp … said on Friday it formed an investment venture with Morgan Stanley Real Estate and sold the venture $525 million in properties.
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSWEN276020071201
Interesting find, mrkt. I wonder what advantage this has for Morgan Stanley or Lennar. Anybody figure this one out?
That was being discussed on the LEN message board this morning. It was announced on a Friday afternoon, after the market closed. That should tell you how positive this is for LEN. “Get me another monkey. We’re working on some voodoo here.”
Fear Mitigator in Chief?
Bernanke’s Comments Help
Mitigate Short-Term Fears
By PETER A. MCKAY
December 1, 2007
The stock market finished a dismal month on a high note, as the Dow Jones Industrial Average posted a fourth straight day of gains.
Investors were encouraged by comments late Thursday from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, who signaled in a speech in Charlotte, N.C., that the central bank might lower its key interest rate when policy makers meet next month. Investors often welcome rate cuts because they lower borrowing costs throughout the economy and encourage various forms of consumption and investing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119648597744210645.html?mod=todays_us_nonsub_money_and_investing
Any coincidence that Goldman Suchs and some of the other investment banks close out their fiscal year on November 30th?
The time to buy stocks? When a recession is officially (if retrospecively) announced. My crystal ball says this will happen (retrospectively) around December 2008.
In light of the following sagacious advice from the WSJ, I guess the Thurs WH announcement that no recession is in the cards for 2008 should be interpreted as a screaming contrarian “SELL” signal?
P.S. The article seems to confirm something I recall Sir Hoz sharing with us about what typically happens after a 10 percent correction.
GREEN THUMB
Be Ready to Buy on the Word ‘Recession’
By JEFF D. OPDYKE
December 1, 2007; Page B1
What a week. A 10% correction in major stock indexes — followed by the biggest two-day rally in five years.
Want to know what history teaches us about what happens next? The lessons may not be pretty.
Based on analyses of 116 previous “corrections,” or a 10% retreat in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, since 1900, Ned Davis Research, which tracks Wall Street statistical minutiae, found that once the market falls 10%, there is a 50-50 chance it is heading for a 15% drop from its recent high.
Then, if the 15% mark is breached, there is a 54% chance of a “bear market,” defined as a 20% decline.
The evidence gets worse. Stock-market volatility — as measured by the 100-day moving average of changes in the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index — recently hit its highest level since 2002. Such spikes in volatility generally foreshadow a bear market.
“The momentum has changed toward the negative,” says Tim Hayes, the firm’s chief investment strategist.
Furthermore, “most recessions have been accompanied by bear markets,” says another data wonk, Jim Stack, president of InvesTech Research, in Whitefish, Mont., whose firm has crunched numbers going back decades. Merrill Lynch, says the odds of a recession have risen to 60% from 50% a month ago, based on its own analyses.
BAD TIMES AHEAD?
What to do if you fear that the stock market will fall more:
• Reduce stock holdings to a level where you aren’t tormented by the increased volatility in price swings.
• Avoid technology, energy and industrial stocks. They aren’t priced for a recession and could suffer if one arrives.
• Look for official word that a recession has arrived. That is the time to buy.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119645693676909823.html?mod=todays_us_nonsub_money_and_investing
when volatility breaks out as it has since august, it usually does not get stuffed back in the can for quite some time.
I anticipate a fun trading year in ‘08 and beyond. And knowing me like you do, you know that means down.
I may have to develop a taste for gambling, as I definitely have the bear instincts…
always the passive agressive.
Always the carefree childless gambler…
What does childless have to do with it? Are you resentful because you’re not childless (carefree) or are you one of those guys who thinks all women should have them? Wow . . .
Citi dropped another bomb.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071130/citigroup_sivs.html?.v=1
BFD — they announced it after hours, which means that it will be largely forgotten come Monday. If anything, it will help contribute to a higher stock market opening on Monday morning. The stock market always goes up!
AP
Citigroup Sells Off More SIV Assets
Friday November 30, 7:21 pm ET
Folks are going to want to know what they were priced at. The SPX can go as high as 1515 and still be in a declining tops mode. There might be enough upside to run the stops in the 1490 to 1500 area.
$hitibank=$hiftybank
doesn’t say what they got ?
26% is the estimate so far from other deals we’ve seen
“Though Citi has been keeping SIVs off its books…”
Where in the world are the companies’ auditors on this matter? Would not rational stockholders sue over being kept in the dark about these SIVs?
Anybody know when the bulk of the 401K money comes into the market i.e. last trading day of the month or first trading day of the month? A link to a reference would be great if possible.
There was a big push up in the last 15 minutes on Friday and I was wondering if this was partially or wholely due to the boyz pumping the indexes before the MOC 401K money hit.
I don’t mean to exclude other factors (hedge fund redemptions with their long/short strategy, end of the year for a number of financial firms, usual pumpster activity, etc.) just curious about when the 401K money hits.
I guess you are admitting you never invested in a 401k. I suspect most people here don’t either. I have my own opinions. Personally my 401k contributions are weekly contributions. My mutual fund purchases in stocks are weekly. Most people here neither understand or appreciate dollar cost averaging. The bottom line is the more often you buy a unit amount of mutual funds, the more often you will buy more shares at lower prices or fewer shares at higher prices. You will smooth out the ups and downs. In 2002-2003 when people hated stocks and when they laughed at me as if I was a fool, I bought shares in VFINX around $88 per share, in that neighborhood for a few months. That’s in my IRA.
The question is not about DCA nor when contributions are made to 401Ks. Probably doesn’t actually have anything to do with 401Ks other than that is a common mechanism through which mutual funds receive contributions. My bad.
I guess the question is when are the bulk of funds received by mutual funds allocated to the market. Is there a preferred date i.e. do they accumulate funds for a period of time and then allocate after hitting a cash threshhold to the beginning of the month, end of the month, or are funds allocated continously throughout the month and therefore there is no “big day” when funds hit the market.
“I guess you are admitting you never invested in a 401k.”
Bill, you completely misunderstand Popper’s question. The only thing apparent is that he does not manage a pool of 401k funds.
Popper, I posted this a couple of posts back. Yesterday was the end of the fiscal year for GS and other investment banks. What role do you think that played in this week’s huge runup? And what does it mean for next week?
I hear ya.
I wouldn’t be surprised that the I Banks gunned the market at the close to improve their positions and noted that above but was curious about when mutual fund/401K money hits the market. I seem to see over and over about “end of the month” or “beginning of the month” the Fund money hits the market and the I Banks goose up the market at close since many of the purchases are MOC (Mark on Close) orders.
I’m pretty heavy in the Puts so I am betting the market goes down. NASDAQ seemed to crap out yesterday and the Russel didn’t get as much love as the SPX this past week. I sold out about 30% of my portfolio at the bottom earlier this week but I still got a reaming.
Activity in the dec 1500 spx puts (oi 200k)picked up on friday. Some writers closing out in anticipation of a retest? (lower strikes had even heavier volume)
Where I work the monies are invested into the funds on payday. As to when that cash is used to purchase securities, I suppose that will depend on the fund administrators. I know most funds keep some cash on hand to pay off people who liquidate their funds.
Ours is invested exactly 1 week after payday, seems that 401(k) investments are all handled differently.
Wisconsin foreclosures soar 67% in month
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=691623
Anybody watch Kudlow yesterday? Supposedly Kass said the year end rally is over. Something about a dead cat bounce. The man has had some pretty good calls lately. Tx?
Kass tends to be wrong for awhile before he’s right. He was calling for a big YE rally days before the market rolled over and corrected 10%
Apologies if previously posted:
“The less told story of the Wells Fargo $1.4 billion home equity write-down is that it wasn’t your typical sub-prime portfolio. According to an article in yesterday’s San Francisco Chronicle by my friend, Kathleen Pender (and kicked my way by accounting-sleuth legend Ted O’Glove):
What it didn’t say in its news release was that these are not loans to borrowers with subprime credit scores.
“This was a prime portfolio,” Wells Fargo spokesman Chris Hammond says.
The average FICO credit score for all Wells Fargo home-equity loans is 750, well into prime territory.
The midpoint of all credit scores in America is 723. Only 40 percent of credit scores are 750 or higher. Subprime starts in the mid-600s and goes down from there, according to Fair Isaac, the company behind FICO scores.
Pretty much says it all. This thing ain’t anywhere near over.
Wells could not provide the average credit score for the loans it is writing down, but Hammond confirmed it’s prime.”
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/greenberg/2007/11/more-on-the-wells-prime-writedown/
I thnk this is significant.
Heads up Ben! Paypal’s MM is invested in SIVs!
http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSN3064718620071201
Interesting - I’ve always noticed their MM rates are a bit on the high side. I think eBay would have no choice but to cover any losses of PayPal “depositors” - their number one asset is their relationship with their sellers, and undoubtedly some of their best sellers have some of the biggest balances. Excellent reason to sell or short eBay stock, which feels like trying to move forward with an engaged parking brake as it is.
Don’t Fear The Weaker Dollar — It’s Keeping The Economy Afloat
http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/071130/general.html?.v=1
It would be true if the u.s. was a net exporter. Inflation will offset export gains.
Out here in Arizona today the weather will whip you around like a kite. We finally have some moisture from the heavens here in drought-land, but we also have a great many faded “For Sale” signs that have been uprooted to lie flat on the ground - just like housing sales closings.
I happened to notice a local Taco Bell that used to be open late is no longer open late.
The rats weren’t getting enough sleep.
LOL… for the past few days I’ve been posting over on the Zillow forums. Last night I responded to a fellow in Stockton who was renting but was considering purchasing a foreclosure.
I basically told him that Stockton was #1 in the nation for foreclosures because the local economy could not support home prices that were driven up by speculators. Rather than buy now, wait six months and see what the market does. If it continues to decline, wait another six months. Do not buy until the market has stabilized.
I also pointed out that a major advantage of renting in a place with a weak economy is that you can more easily relocate to a more prosperous area if you’re laid off. A homeowner can be trapped in a crummy job market. Stockton’s unemployment is twice the national average.
Here’s the link to the thread if anyone else wants to weigh in…
http://www.zillow.com/forum/site/ViewThread.htm?tid=13578
Another group of greedy whiners:
I called Countrywide many times and informed them that I had a car accident, became disabled for 4 months and eventually lost my job and my husband retired to take care of me. I asked the agent I’ve spoke to if I can refinance my loan but he told me that since we owed more than the equity they can not help me. I sent them all the home keys, garage door opener and a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure they have not responded.
I put my house for sale since July of 2007 and there’s no buyer. So I lower the price of my house from $499,000 down to $290,000 an pending Countrywide’s approval, my agent called and told me that someone is interestd to buy my house as short sale. I called Countrywide and told them that a buyer wants to know if they will accept a short sale, I owed $442,000 and I asked them to give me 1099 for the balance owed.
The Countrywide agenttold me to fax an authorization letter to them authorizing my agent to talk to them, paystubs and listing price, date my house was put to market, the purchaser’s agreement and estimated seller closng costs. I faxed everything except the purchaser’s agreement. I told them that the buyer wants to make sure if they will accept short sale beforethey make an offer. Now Countrywide is asking us to send them our bank statement and the 1040AND w2 last year.
I am hesitant to do that since you have mentioned that Coutrywide does not help you modify your loan and my husband feels its a waste of time.
I told Countrywide that they should accept a short sale in the amount of $200,000 and not $290,000 as I put in the flyer. The prices of new homes in this area built by Centex, Richmond and other builders lower their prices at $200,000 with big lots, high upgrades, free closing costs from $30,000 or more. There’s many more negative information about this area and if I have know this information I would have not bought this house. Countrywide doesn’t even care, period. I think they need to train their agents and employees ad owners of this company how to treat customers with respect and how to be compassionate and have listening ears. That last guy I’ve spoke with did not return my call when I asked him to return my call.
YOU KNOW COUNTRYWIDE, WHAT YOU REAP YOU SOW, IF YOU SOW A HARD STONE HEART, YOU WILL REAP TRIPLE OF THAT. I HOPE AND PRAY THAT YOU WILL NOT GO THROUGH WHAT WE BORROWERS HAD GONE THROUGH. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND WE DESERVE TO BE TREATED AS ONE.
VENGEANCE IS MINE, SAYS THE LORD.
http://www.loansafe.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63
YOU KNOW COUNTRYWIDE, WHAT YOU REAP YOU SOW, IF YOU SOW A HARD STONE HEART, YOU WILL REAP TRIPLE OF THAT. I HOPE AND PRAY THAT YOU WILL NOT GO THROUGH WHAT WE BORROWERS HAD GONE THROUGH. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND WE DESERVE TO BE TREATED AS ONE.
It would take a heart of stone to read this FB’s tale of woe without laughing.
“how to treat customers with respect and how to be compassionate and have listening ears.”
Man, I wouldn’t answer the phone either. You signed a contract to pay back half a million with interest. It’s business. Either perform or walk away and accept the consequences. What’s to discuss.
I really can’t fault a CFC customer service rep not having much respect for some idiot who owes $450k that wants to sell at $200k (or whatever).
FROM TODAY’S NEW YORK TIMES: Between Buyers and Sellers, a Stalemate
…Arthur and Lisa Brodsky have spent the last year looking for a two-bedroom apartment on the Upper East Side or Upper West Side with their agent, Jason Haber of Prudential Douglas Elliman, and a maximum budget of $1.2 million. Mr. Brodsky, 30, who works in private equity, and Ms. Brodsky, 30, who works in marketing for magazines, want to buy something large enough to accommodate the family they hope to start within the next couple of years.
They also want to make sure their apartment will appreciate 20 to 25 percent during that time so they could cover their costs of buying and selling if they decide to move to the suburbs as their children grow older. They see their friends in New Jersey buying homes at big discounts from sellers who bought at the peak of the market. Rather than overpay, the Brodskys are staying in their one-bedroom rental and watching where prices head….
This couple is smart enough to not overpay themselves - the articles states that they might continue to rent. BUT if they buy the expect enough appreciation so that they have essentially lived for free. LOTS of delusional people out there. And this guy works in finance !
Did anyone see the article re: Ted Turner buying up thousands of acres. Article suggests he is buying up all the land over a huge aquifier or buying up the land to price legit ranchers out of the market. Ohh, I think I’m having a tin foil hat moment here:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004041411_tedland29.html
DNA shows that dogs are descendents of wolves, which we dometisticated in a symbiotic hunting relationship. Domestic cats came from larger wild felines that aided us in keeping pests and vermin from our grains, etc.
The question is, we have now evolved a need for a similar critter to help us ward off bankers, used house sellers, and De WS Boyz. What would that be – weasels, maybe? Badgers? Vultures?
How about a kangaroo? When they try to pick the kangaroo’s pocket, the kangaroo can kick them to kingdom come…
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/54/ron-paul-rises-above-giuliani
Ron Paul beat Rudy Giuliani on fund-raising in the 3rd quarter - and RP, unlike his Hollow-Man GOP rivals, isn’t getting a dime from the banksters.
Dinner conversation tonight began with “professor bear said…” I just want to thank each and every one of you posters, and of course Ben, for all the information you have shared here. you are all “household names” around my home. Thanks…
the rentometer, http://www.rentometer.com/
Nifty.