It Seems Like Sort Of A Fiasco In California
The Santa Cruz Sentinel reports from California. “A city planning commissioner contends few homeowners will benefit from current state or federal efforts to prevent foreclosures. Emilio Martinez, a private investigator who has worked with hundreds of Latino homeowners in Santa Cruz, Monterey and San Benito counties, said he’s reviewed 300 Watsonville homes in foreclosure from the past three months and found 78 percent owed more than they paid for their homes.”
“He said he has seen a common pattern among borrowers. ‘They’re upside down,’ he said. ‘They’re paying $4,000-$5,000 a month, and they’re paying interest only. The value of the home is less than what they owe. There’s no way they can salvage that loan.’”
“‘You lenders want them to adhere to the contract when it was worth $700,000,’ he said. ‘It’s worth $400,000 now. They’ve already paid $4,000 a month for two years to live there, and you want them to keep on paying.’”
“Martinez said struggling borrowers have flocked to his office asking for help. ‘They can’t read English. Whatever people told them, they believed,’ he said. ‘They were misled to think they would be able to refinance. When they go to refinance, they find out about the prepayment penalty.’”
“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
“He advises borrowers to stay in their homes even if they can’t make payments. ‘I know a house in Hollister where three families are living together, 20 people in one house,’ he said.”
“Martinez criticized lenders for refusing to re-evaluate what the home is worth when borrowers are struggling. ‘They’d rather leave homes empty because they want a bailout,’ he said. ‘They shouldn’t be allowed to foreclose if they didn’t follow policies and procedures.’”
“With homes declining in value, the question is who will bear that loss.’
The Contra Costa Times. “The Berkeley City Council will consider a plan tonight to give homeowners facing foreclosure one-time loans and counseling to keep up with their mortgage payments.”
“Berkeley foreclosures rose 330 percent, from 10 in the first 10 months of 2006 to 43 in the same period this year, according to DataQuick. And the number of Berkeley homeowners behind on mortgage payments who are facing foreclosure rose 85 percent, from 67 in the first 10 months of 2006 to 124 in the same period this year.”
“Rae Mary, Berkeley’s interim housing department director, said her department would be a logical place to implement these kinds of programs, but money to run them could be a problem. ‘I’m a little concerned about resources to do it,’ Mary said.”
The New York Times. “Just south of Los Angeles, there is a small city called Paramount where houses have all but stopped selling. As home prices rose ever higher in other parts of Southern California, Paramount became all the more attractive — and prices eventually soared there as well. By last year, the typical house sold for almost $500,000, up from $200,000 in early 2003.”
“Many of those sales depended on adjustable-rate mortgages with tantalizingly low initial payments, and now that those mortgages are much harder to get, there aren’t many buyers willing and able to pay $500,000. Yet sellers in Paramount haven’t adjusted to the new reality by cutting their prices very much. Instead, the real estate market has frozen.”
“Since the summer, only about three homes a week — including houses and condominiums — have sold in Paramount. In the third quarter of this year, only 30 homes changed hands, down from 134 in the third quarter of last year.”
“That 78 percent drop is bigger than the decline in any other ZIP code in the country, according to DataQuick.”
“‘We got to a point in this area where the values far exceeded the capability of the median family,’ said Gary Endo, a real estate agent in Paramount. ‘So people created a loan to bridge that gap. All they did was create a problem.’”
“Mr. Endo added: ‘We’re going through that transition where sellers can’t accept that prices are falling. They’re still caught up in this idea that their property is worth more than it is. It’s just strange.’”
“On Sunday, Luis Perez and his wife, Hilda, held their fourth open house since putting their apricot-colored stucco home on the market in August. They have reduced the price once, by about 5 percent. They still haven’t received a single offer.”
“Mr. Perez…bought his house for $380,000 six years ago. He later refinanced his mortgage and took out a home-equity loan. As a result, the interest rate on his new mortgage reset in October, causing the monthly payment to jump $1,300, to $3,900.”
“If he can’t sell the house for something close to the asking price of $549,900, he expects the bank will take it from him.”
“‘The truth is, I don’t think my house will sell,’ Mr. Perez said in Spanish, to my colleague. ‘If in four months I’ve had no offers, I don’t see how I’ll get an offer now that it’s more difficult to sell.’”
The Recordnet. “A couple of top bidders in a no-minimum-bid auction of foreclosed homes nearly a month ago in Stockton are not only unhappy that banks didn’t accept their bids or even negotiate a sale, they haven’t gotten back thousands of dollars in deposits.”
“‘It was a waste of my time,’ said Lewis Stallworth Jr., a Stockton man who put in a top bid of $135,000 for a north Stockton house. ‘I feel like it was almost a scam. There’s no use in going to an auction if they’re going to act like that.’”
“In another case, Mel Schell of San Andreas placed a top bid of $180,000 for a house in San Andreas, and it was rejected outright. His agent, Lynne Miller then was told the foreclosure owner wanted to reconsider the bid.”
“But neither Schell nor Miller has heard anything more, and Schell’s 5 percent deposit of $9,000 hasn’t been returned. ‘I’m getting a little bit anxious about it,’ he said.”
“‘I’m kind of sorry I got into this, to tell you the truth,’ Schell said. ‘It’s been way too long.’”
“Miller said the auction deceptively implied most bids would be accepted. Plus, several weeks after the auction is too long not to hear anything, she said. ‘It seems like sort of a fiasco,’ she said.”
“Not everyone is unhappy. One successful bidder from Lodi, Travis Campbell, was pleased with the auction. He bid $150,000 for a fourplex. About a week later, the bank countered with $170,000, but he held at $150,000. The deal was made a week later.”
“‘It worked out good for me,’ he said.”
The Record Searchlight. “There were 600 fewer construction, mortgage lenders and real estate agents employed in Shasta County in October than in October 2006. October unemployment in Shasta County reached a nine-year high at 7 percent.”
“Mike Neves, president of Access Mortgage in Redding, said he expects to see more lenders tighten their belts, either by consolidating or simply closing.”
“‘Everybody is doing expense control because the money lenders are losing, taking losses from short sales and REOs (bank-owned properties),’ Neves said.”
The Anderson Valley Post. “The Vineyards housing development in Anderson has lain relatively dormant for several months. The plan by developer Sanderson Communities entails 2,500 acres to contain 5,500 units in the hills behind Wal-Mart on Rhonda Road.”
“No construction that requires building inspections has been done at The Vineyards since July.”
“One reason for the delay, according to Roger White, VP of development at Sanderson Communities, was the high cost of project items. He also noted that The Vineyards has had difficulty getting partners to help with financing.”
“‘Possible financiers were very skittish,’ White said.”
“White said that houses on 95 lots would be ready for construction by March, but only a few houses would actually be built until the housing market improves. ‘The hype about the housing market is running out of gas,’ White said. ‘People are still having babies and are still interested in this area.’”
“Many of the vacant houses that have already been built in Anderson have been vandalized. There has been no apparent security, although White said that Wolf Security was recently hired to patrol the area. Anderson police reported that patrol cars have taken extra routes through the area since the vandalism started.”
“The houses are not the property of The Vineyards, said White. Two builders for The Vineyards actually own the houses; they are Palmer Homes and Northwest Builders.”
“The president of Palmer Homes refused to speak with the Valley Post, while the owner of Northwest Builders did not respond to multiple voice messages and messages left with his office’s secretaries.”
The Sacramento Bee. “Hopes for an office tower and high-rise housing at Eighth and I streets downtown have been dashed again. The CIM Group, a Hollywood-based developer, has opted out of its plans, says Rob Leonard, economic development director for Sacramento County, which owns the site.”
“CIM’s move follows a similar decision last year by Texas home builder D.R. Horton to abandon its plans for a 21-story ‘Library Lofts’ project at the same site.”
“Leonard says CIM’s decision was a ’sign of the (weakening real estate) market’ and an indication that CIM is focusing on other local projects.”
“As for backing out of the Eighth and I streets project, CIM exec John Given says there were ’some great ideas but it didn’t come together.’”
“What happens now at that location, where a three-story, former Bank of America building now sits vacant?”
“Leonard says the county likely will hold the land until the market improves. Meanwhile, he adds, ‘we’ve heard from a couple of private and public (entities) that might want to lease the building.’”
My wife got a card from a friend who unfortunately just closed on a home in Palmdale. She gave the guy a call out of courtesy to the friend.
Wifey describes what we are looking for to the salesman, a single story 4+3 on over 1/2 acre. He perks up immediately saying, “I know of a million dollar home in just the right area that is currently in escrow for 600K but isn’t likely to close due to financing.”
I laughed out loud when she told me that. She’s way to nice, I would have told the guy that it obviously isn’t a million dollar home then, is it? His suggestion was that we wait until escrow fails and then lowball them. How about that? A realtor asking for a lowball.
What an excellent time to be a bear.
(resuming hibernation)
Wow…closing on anything in Palmdale right now, has to be a kiss of death.
Well, this friend sold closer to the top than I did even, so while he is a knife catcher, at least he’s catching it with funny money.
I know of dozens of people praying to sell in Palmdale. Not one looking to buy. Renting in the area is easy; the commercial apartments are going begging! The number of people renting out rooms cheap is staggering…
Ok, I was in Palmdale today. The coworkers I met with are getting ANGRY that I won’t consider buying. “Why don’t you move up here and buy your wife a nice place. You can afford it.”
There jaws drop when I said “I told my wife she can have a home or a Lexus this year, because that is about the cash flow difference.”
Oh… wrong thing to say in that crowd…
Got popcorn?
Neil
But, you’d have to want to *live* in Palmdale. Ever been out there when the sandstorms kick up? They’ll pit the windshield on your car. Good for the paint too.
Different strokes I guess. I wouldn’t move to SM if they paid me. Too many people, heavy traffic, homeless, requires 2 incomes to live, etc. I prefer the 360 cloudless days/year and I don’t know anyone in 15 years that has shown me how windblown particulates have damaged their car.
Rust damage down by the beach, however, is another story. I don’t understand the venom spewed toward the AV. I guess it must be the tendency for people to tear others down to make themselves feel better.
I own property in Palmdale, want to buy 5 acres of windswept desert? Avenue J near Fifth. I’ll make you a sweet deal.
Um well my parents lived in Cal City for seven years and went through 2 windshields on thier truck due to pitting from the blowing sand. The paint on the truck just got more ‘dusty’ looking each year. Me, I’ll take the rust near the ocean any day. At least there’s water nearby.
Dude:
Most of the venom can be laid at the feet of the inconsiderate AV residents that rudely jam up the friday night dash to Las Vegas just so they can have dinner with their families. The basin would rather you just hang around the workplace on Friday night until they get to Barstow.
My dearest Neil,
“The coworkers I met with are getting ANGRY …”
“Oh… wrong thing to say in that crowd… ”
Word to the wise (forgive my forthrightfullness), SHhhhh.
It’s sad that we live in a world where others are jealous of our happiness. Unfortunately, this is true.
You seem to be a very happy person! Not a bragard, but a sharing one. Warm one.
Don’t change.
Best,
Leigh
Thank you.
I wasn’t meaning to brag or put down… its what I told my wife!
I figure its a heck of a lot cheaper to buy another year. 
But yea… I’ve been much quieter lately…
As to the AV… Its for some, not for others. But when real estate tanks, it tanks hard there.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Antelope Valley might be tolerable if you like desert weather and had a local job. The commutes down the 14 to San Fernando Valley and beyond are hellish.
On the upside, head to the west side of the valley near the Poppy Reserve and you can pick up plenty of Joshua Trees for your FB co-workers…
Speaking of apartments going begging, I actually received a phone call today from an apartment complex in Palo Alto where I had expressed an interest, but later chose to rent elsewhere. They were excited to tell me about their new, reduced prices, just in case I hadn’t already found a place. Pretty sad when Palo Alto landlords can’t fill their places, and this was even a fairly nice place in a central location, not one of the ghetto complexes near the freeway.
Boy, did we luck out. My dad had some property out of Palmdale for decades, not worth much, maybe 8k. It was 10-20 acres I think. When he passed away in 2001 we got some phony out of state appraiser who said it was worth 38 and that was a joke.
Well, so my brother decided to sell it about 2004 and we actually got 38k! No cap gain that way either. Bet it’s back to 8k now. I never laid eyes on the place.
““‘The truth is, I don’t think my house will sell,’ Mr. Perez said in Spanish, to my colleague. ‘If in four months I’ve had no offers, I don’t see how I’ll get an offer now that it’s more difficult to sell.’””
Interesting that a guy who can’t speak English has a better grasp of the reality of the present market than pretty much every bank out there (who are all still asking 2005 prices for their REOs).
Perez for Countrywide CEO!
Except Perez has only lowered his price by 5% one time, so he’s still not the smartest guy in the room. He may know the reality but he is not acting on the knowledge. Looks like he spent all the equity and then some.
I’ll bet you a donut he CAN’T lower his price anymore, he’d be a short sale, and he doesn’t have or doesn’t want to bring money to closing.
Question. If you can buy a home without a social security number (after all, many Brits bought in FL) — how does that impact your credit. Would you even be in the system?
You’d need to go down to Olympic and Alvarado to buy a new number.
“…— how does that impact your credit. ”
It probably doesn’t. However, at the time these people borrowed, everything was bubbly and no lenders worried about anything. Check to see if those same Brits can borrow now without close to 50% cash down, and from whom.
“…he’s still not the smartest guy in the room.”
Lucky for Perez; to my recollection, some of yesteryear’s ’smartest guys in the room’ are now either dead or in prison.
‘They can’t read English. Whatever people told them, they believed,’ he said.
If everyone had to learn English in this country maybe they would not be in this mess.
The rather large number of English-speaking FBs doesn’t seem to support this idea. Greed and hope translate rather quickly.
Can’t speak english. BulShi$%t!!! He bought a house, refinanced it a few times. Now he is in trouble. What do hispanics do when they are in deep trouble, they suddenly can’t speak english.
“‘You lenders want them to adhere to the contract when it was worth $700,000,’ he said. ‘It’s worth $400,000 now. They’ve already paid $4,000 a month for two years to live there, and you want them to keep on paying.’”
LOL…um, yeah…it’s called a LOAN for a reason. The bank isn’t the one that offered the seller $700K for that POS - you did. I wonder what these people do when they buy a car after they drive off the lot and it’s worth less than what they paid…
You know, the banks should just forgive the rest - after all they have been paying for two whole years! Making good on 2/30ths of a contract seems good enough.
Clearly the bank should not make these people make their regular payments , and not get any equity out of it!
That would be like renting, and renting is like so next year!
Um- the bank gets the *house*. And when the bank loaned 680,000 to somebody who made 40,000 they knew this would happen.
Jay Leno: Exactly! Exactly! Hey, wait… I have a “Banker” the lives next door, he seems like a nice enough guy to me?
Loan? What loan? We don`t have to pay back no stinkin loan !!
Just last year those people who bought their houses ‘affordable housing’ were trying to sue the city or county because they thought that they should receive full equity appreciation even though they were subsidized. Gotta lov this one!
What?? I’d like to hear more about that.
That kind of journalism has really pissed me off. I know, the paper didn’t say it, but to even quote it without summing up it’s stupidity is wrong. C’mon, it’s a contract for gods sake! If you pull out 10K on a credit card, go to Vegas and put it all on red and lose, do you call the CC company and say “Gee, I don’t have the money no more, so I don’t see how it’s fair that I keep paying”. I think the lenders should start breaking thumbs…..oh, and tasing the hell out of these lame-a$$ SOB’s.
Hear, hear…I’m increasingly amazed by the logic I’m reading in the papers right now.
Hey, is there a shortage of Joshua Trees?
Oh no, I’m just saying what the lenders should do. You shouldn’t handle a JT unless you’re qualified. Once they’re kicked to the curb, thumbs broken, hair and cloths still smokin’ from the tasing, I’ll be there to administer my “special” gift. Besides, it’s nice to have them a little incapacitated before I give them the “JT treatment”. There’s a lot less wiggling and squirming around, which is nice when your trying to line up an oversized, spikey projectile into a seemingly impossible passageway…….and I emphasize “seemingly”.
When you decide to run for political office, do let us know.
As someone posted on another thread, the country is waiting for a pol who knows how to solve a problem in an efficient and cost-effective way.
I’m not getting the guy’s point either. Sounds like he’s saying that when the value of the asset is lower, the loan amount should lower to match the value????? I don’t know why the lenders aren’t jumping on this one - why wouldn’t they just lower the loan $300K. We’re living in bizarro land.
That garbage should’t have been printed.
So true Ex. How many sob stories have you read where you just want to scream. I keep wondering to they even ask questions? Nearly every one of these stories you can bet involved a screwy loan that was way more than the person should have taken (Q: Why did you buy such an expensive house?), an overpriced house (same question as the last), lies on the loan application (Q: May I take a look at your loan application), didn’t know it was an ARM (Q: May I take a look at your closing documents), refi or HELOC (Q: Did you ever HELOC or refinance) and on and on. How about the reporter checking property records, too. Could it be that the journalists are just not very smart or know nothing about the subject they are writing about?
It’s called the story’s “angle”. Newspaper stories have angles, which is the slant, the direction of which the writer wants to take the story.
The idea of such a story is not necessairly to present unbiased information, rather it is to present a particular point of view to help shape public opinion.
Are any of them here legally ?They should probably be deported today.
It would be neat if it worked that way with car loans!
the lender gave the borrower 700k for a 400k McPOS. so tough shit to the lender, they can take back their McPOS and good luck selling that sucker.
as to the car analogy, try going to your local credit union and asking for a 100k loan to buy a civic, let me know their reaction.
I know people living in Watsonville and say BS to the PAYING $4000 per month. A fraction thereof yes, but not the full ride. Can’t wait to show this to a friend there who is Hispanic.
“‘You lenders want them to adhere to the contract when it was worth $700,000,’ he said. ‘It’s worth $400,000 now. They’ve already paid $4,000 a month for two years to live there, and you want them to keep on paying.’”
That is the Bush/Paulson ‘Hope to be Remembered as President’ program. I guess it is not likely to work. Sayonara.
In the arrears view mirror, ’ssshrubery has hope to be remembered as President…
Not a good memory, but one must play the house of cards dealt you.
Oh, he’ll be remembered alright!
I forecast he’ll be the president that will receive the longest sentence every meted out to a president. Considering his conduct, he might actually be the first to serve time.
From your lips to God’s ears, exeter. I don’t know of any prez who deserves it more. Every day, I see more chinks of light in the armor and I have such admiration for those who are standing up and coming forward, like the CIA guys and Admiral Fallon, who is the only person standing between us and disaster.
Careful Palmy - I got butchered on another thread because I disputed that Clinton was the worst evil person on earth and the only president who hasn’t faded away and kept his mouth shut after leaving office. Told that my oprah comments were irritating.
That’s an interesting coincidence, because Oprah herself is irritating!
I’ve never watched or become an Oprahite - can’t stomach her. Wouldn’t know how to make an Oprah comment - I guess he was trying to insult me, but who cares.
Craz,
Don’t sweat the small stuff luv!
Say NO to groupthink!
Frack careful - good night Irene~
Best,
Leigh
Bush derangement syndrome.
W is destined to be remembered as the prez who precided over the bubble’s inflation and popping. But it is well worth remembering that the bubble’s beginnings date back to the liquefaction (or is the term liquification?) of financial markets after the 1997-1998 Thai baht / Russian debt default / LTCM crisis period — back in the Clinton era.
“He advises borrowers to stay in their homes even if they can’t make payments. ‘I know a house in Hollister where three families are living together, 20 people in one house,’ he said.”
Ahhh, ain’t home ownership grand?! LMAO!
It will be ugly when these esrtwhile squatters begin to be forcibly removed by the sheriff. Watch the mood turn when a cop gets shot for carrying out a court ordered eviction.
Ahhh, ain’t home ownership grand?! LMAO!
Especially for their next-door-neighbors. Can you imagine??
Times like this I love renting.
At only 20 per house, the excess supply of housing should be gone in no time. No wonder the NAR thinks a recovery will begin in 2008 with 2009 even better.
Who’s more screwed, the neighbors or the lender when it takes back a property run down by so many occupants?
Let’s hope all of the toilets are working propertly. Kind of a mess if they are not.
I mentioned this awhile back but when my inlaws sold their old dumpy house which was surrounded by unlawful neighbors (it was not bad 10 years ago but the neighborhood just went to the dumps), the people that bought the house were actually three families. Somehow they got a loan. Inlaws made a killing. The house, in my opinion, is worth $150K. They sold it for $800K. I told them to sell it and they DID!
I drive to the old place when I get a chance and I see about 6 cars parked near the house, A sofa in the lawn, a BBQ right next to it, Mexican music blasting, dogs and 10 kids running around. It felt like Tijuana. Feel sorry for the neighbors who lived their for almost 30 years.
They will probably lose the house in time but the damage is already done.
This is why I beg and beg my grams to come live with us!
So far, so good…the hood is still safe.
Me crystal ball says it’s just a matter of time. I love her so!
Leighsong, if you can convince her to live with you, I’d like you to have a talk with my mom. I’m trying to convince her to live with or near me, and it’s not working.
Don’t be so quick to think you place is safe. The lower income areas have homes and residents that are fortified and always on guard. It is easier for a person who wants to steal to drive to a “safe” neighborhood, do their crimes and rush back to the hood.
No place is safe anymore. And it is only going to get worse.
The future of Amerika. Hey, 3rd world nations do it, so it’ll work here, right?!
“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
Hey, they can save it!…they just need to hook up with a “strawberry picker” or a “garlic grabber” or a “nut tree shaker”
Even $40k sounds like a lot for a sandwich maker…or two.
BTW, wasn’t Subway calling their employees ’sandich artists’ not too long ago?
Too funny…
40K is way too much for a Togo’s worker to be making. My friend worked as a manager at Togo’s in college and no way did she even clear $30k per year, much less $40K. Talk about big time fraud on that loan!
“$40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
Wait, are you sure? Hmmm, off the top of my head, it sure *seems* like someone making $40,000 a year *should* be able to afford a house that costs TWO THIRDS OF A MILLION DOLLARS.
Wait a minute, two thirds of a million dollars is quite a lot of money. Thinking about it a little more, it would be crazy to buy a house for 2/3 of a million when you only make $40K a year.
That would be like buying an expensive sports car or two when you only made $40K a year.
That would be like going on trips to Bali several times a year when when you only made $40K a year.
That would be like buying a yacht when when you only made $40K a year.
That’s stuff rich people do…not people that make $40K a year.
Yeah, now that I think a bit about it, there is no way someone making $40K a year would be able to buy a house priced at 2/3 of a million dollars. That’s just plain silly; and the people making $40K a year wouldn’t even consider such a silly purchase…right?
Right?
Right.
You neglected to consider the possibility that they made a $400k downpayment, so the loan was “only” $280k, which… oh wait a minute, that’s still SEVEN times their stated income, which as others pointed out, was probably overstated by at least a factor of two. I give up!
Dude - that is a loan for 17X income. I’ve seen plenty of 10-12X income loans, but that one made my eyeballs explode.
Has anyone seen anything worse?
No pity.
Pity? No!
But the bragging rights at the old folks home. Back when I earned 40,000 dollars a year, that was good money back then… remember dollars? I guess that was 50 ounces of gold. Well I was done forclosed on a $680,000 home. Let’s see… that would be a thousand of our ounces of our gold. So a really nice house, you see. We lived in that place, all twenty of us, for seven years before the federales finally got around to our corner and evicted us. Why dang… That’s when uncle Jose lost his ear.
I think its bragging rights in the old folks home.
Got popcorn?
Neil
Exactly the comment I was going to post. OMFG 17x!!!!111!1one!
Sure …How did a strawberry picker earning $15,000 a year qualify for a loan of $720,000 ..
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/04/13/carollloyd.DTL
Actually the article says “each” of the Ramirez couple earns about $300 a week, so I guess the loan-to-income ratio is “only” 24 instead of 48.
Anyway 24 is higher than 17. But must be quite common there. The hispanic population is very high (I guess more than 66%). Most jobs are farm jobs, but house prices are insane (just check out prices in this region on Zillow: Watsonville, Salinas, Hollister). But they found the answer: bring in friends and family who all pay for the loan. It changes the appearance of those cities very much. Some places there already look like Latin America.
“‘They can’t read English. Whatever people told them, they believed,”
I just signed a contract that was in Chinese. Had no idea what it said but they assured me it be a great deal. What ya’ll think?
You just an agreement to smuggle in 500 kilo’s of white powder (not sugar), your take: $50,000 cash & the chicks for free!
You just signed…a dry cleaning bill!!!
(name the movie)
“They can’t read English. ……“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
(1) Then what is the name of all that is holy were they doing buying property is a foreign country????? You have to be dumb as dirt to off and do business in a place where you do not speak the language well not read it at all. My husband is fluent in spoken and written French but we STILL wouldn’t go and try to buy property in France without retaining someone from there to review the entire transaction and make sure that we hadn’t misunderstood the terms of the deal nor not known about some procedure or process.
(2) And mathematically illiterate as well. They couldn’t even divide $680,000 by 20 or 30 years and figure out that they didn’t have a hope of paying for it even if they committed 90% of their income.
The weeping and wailing about ‘oh they were told they could refinance’ is nonsense. The original price had to be paid and they couldn’t do it even without paying interest.
“without retaining someone from there ”
They did retain someone. One lying scumbag realtor and one lying scumbag mortgage broker. The immigrant community really drove the shaft home to their own for the most part.
Amen, dude. Don’t look now, but at the next “rights” rally, you’ll see a bunch of Joshua trees sticking out from their behinds.
The immigrant community really drove the shaft home to their own for the most part.
I suspect that there’s more of a basically ethnic slant involved (excuse me if I’m using dumbass terminology), somewhere along the lines of the realtor and/or the mortgage broker probably being home-grown kids of Latino immigrants who spoke Spanish at home, looking to do something for fellow “Raza” and making a quick buck at the same time.
Last time I checked min wage is nowhere near $20 bucks an ahour in anywhere in CA. So that $40K is rather off many miles from $9-10 at best.
people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s
I understood it to mean the husband and wife both work there, making it $10/hour, which is probably right in CA.
Ann, not to be too fussy, but $680K divided by 30 is less than $23K. If the interest rate were 0%, and if they could commit 90% of their after-tax income to this house as you mention, they would in fact own the house before the end of the term. (Yeah, right…!)
680K @ 6% interest only would be $40,800 per Year.
That’s 102% of their Gross 40k “Before Taxes”. I knew some people in school bad a Math, But GEEEEEEEZ!
Okay - I wasn’t using a calculator and (gasp) allowed some of gross income for FICA/FUTA, state income tax and federal income tax….. my mistake. Not likely they were paying state and fed if they could boot the number of exemptions to 15 or 30 or whatever.
I simply can not belive that ANYONE with that household income ever thought they could afford that house! I think they need to be declared mentally incompetent, a guardian appointed and possibly institutionalized as they are sufferring from delusions.
Back before we retired and were still practising law (Yep, hubby and I were law partners in a specialty area and still stayed married), we probably could have qualified for a 15 year fixed even when interest rates were between 8-10 for prime. Thing is I wouldn’t have done it. Big difference between what a lender says that you ‘can afford’ even on tight lending standards and what any sane person ought to spend if they can be reasonably comfortable with less.
“It isn’t what you make, it is what you save that counts.’
As I keep saying, I’m in the w-r-r-o-o-o-n-n-n-n-g-g-g-g-g century!
You guys have enough bash about the Mexicans.
The most stupid thing here is the bank, not them. So they lie, they lose the house which they haven’t paid much. Their lender lie, that guy has gotten his money and I don’t hear anybody talking about prosecution.
The bank lended them the money and sold to investors as SIVs. Now the bank is f**ked, and rightly so. That is the most stupid thing our banking system has done. But the investors are f**ked too, all because the irresponsible ratings agency gave SIVs AAA+ and they thought it was a great investment getting a little more than prime.
Those stupid people you laugh about made your life miserable by lying to get a house they cannot afford, and now they have politicians’ ears to keep them in the house and take money out of your pocket to save them and the banks.
It is hard for me to laugh. At the end they are getting a much better deal than the bank, the investors, and you as well.
Lets get serious ,the strawberry picker ,or sandwich maker ,was told that they could make a good living pulling out equity by refinancing ,and than one day they could sell and retire to who knows where .
These home purchases are nothing more than scams by the Realtors ,mortgage agents ,and the borrowers themselves .This is what happens in a mania . These cases have nothing to do with the concept of home ownership ,and the MSM should stop trying to make victims out of these borrowers ,or the industry that gave them the shovel to bury themselves
If is my belief that borrowers who bought homes way beyond their income price range were part of the investment scheme of ongoing appreciation that was being marketed during the mania . No money in the game by these borrowers but a lot of opportunity to make appreciation .
At one point in this mania cycle the real estate industry was just looking for anybody they could find under a rock to get in on this investment scheme . Remember how the seminar groups were selling the real estate leverage game ,the builders were selling out entire tracts to investors , and crooks were searching for fools that they could lure into the investment scheme of leverage buying of real estate . The MSM was touting the next best place to invest in real estate ,and the locust were buying property sight unseen ,and people were hauled around in buses to developments to get in on the next new tract where the promise of untold riches and quick flips were marketed .
I am convinced that the borrowers bought the “get in now ,refinance or sell later .” sales pitch that was sold Nation wide by commissioned salespeople and builders who were building for speculators . All these market makers had all the answers for these stupid borrowers faulty investment in real estate . Some borrowers who were really just looking for a home got caught in the false market and bought in fear that they would be priced out forever .
Think about how all these creep liar borrowers priced everyone out of the market ,and now these gamblers want a bail out ?
Only about 30% or 40% of the population is going to object to bail-outs ,and most of the sheep don’t even know how they are paying for these bail outs already .
I’ve purchased property in a foreign country where I’m not nearly fluent in the language and you can bet I had a professional translation made of all the documents and had it notarized.
“What ya’ll think?”
I think you are going to wake up tomorrow morning in a bathtub full of ice with a pain in your lower back and a phone with a note that says, “call 911″.
Oh yeah, the phone will be by Mattel.
And the Mattel phone will be covered with lead paint.
I have a feeling this “no hablar ingles” is just an excuse.
Hell, it seems like it works when they rear-end you with their uninsured car, so why not their loan obligations?
What ya’ll think?
Don’t have a clue. It’s all Greek to me!
“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
I’d like a $680,000 home, Togo’s.
It occurs to me that you could probably buy an entire Togo’s FRANCHISE for less than $680k, and unlike a house, it produces income rather than sucking you dry.
“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
Damn, I guess the numbers were in a language they can’t read either.
A tech worker 50 miles north only makes 80-100K and yet they too can afford a $680K POS. And what a POS it is, aint worth more than $150K!
LMAO!!!
meant to say …” too cannot afford a $680K POS”.
Sorry Sir,
We no longer take bubble dollars!
Is it just me, or is the most shocking part of this entry that Togos employees get 40k a year to make sandwiches? Seems like a lot to me.
No way, unless they’re selling dime-bags under the counter.
In Santa Cruz I wouldn’t be surprised. There are places where all you have to do is order the right “special” and you might get something interesting under your plate.
A place up in Boulder Creek got busted for that type of activity. The special was chicken nachos. Obviously they got caught pretty quickly.
Now these guys are bitching about paying 700K for Watsonville dumps just make me laugh from far away now. This place is a hole and they still put their names on the line for that amount. HAH!
Downtown went overboard last time I was there…
It was much better back in the early 80s to early 90s…
Now its just a upscale armpit!
Yeah, I spent ten years in Ben Lomond/Santa Cruz/Capitola in the 80s-90s, and I couldn’t afford a $220K / 800 SF termite-ridden house then. So I left.
Hey be nice, he’s either the manager or working 80 hours a week!
That article said that he’s a sandwich maker, not a manager. Also, I seriously doubt that he’s working 80 hours per week. No retail outlet in its right mind will permit hourly workers to work more than 8 hours per day or 40 hours per week in California. Most of them have an explicit policy to restrict hour worked to 39 or fewer per week, just to be safe.
Also, of course, most Ph.D. students have free tuition and a stipend as a teaching assistant or research assistant. Medical schools on the other hand charge insane tuition and most medical students graduate with enormous debt. This along with a limited number of slots is the time-honored method for restricting the number of new doctors each year in the USA, thereby keeping the supply low and wages high.
You know, I didn’t catch that… but now that you mention it, it is a lot! .. What is that, about $20 an hour?
No. It used the word “they” as in plural so it sounds like it is the household income. $40,000 divided by 2 (taking the minimum number for a plural ) = $20,000 per person and at 2080 hours of work a year (40 hours x 52 weeks) that = $9.61 an hour.
I think it’s 2 of them. Maybe $20K/yr for sandwich artist? Even that seems high to me.
That works out to about 14 bucks an hour… I didn’t know Togo’s paid that well
20000 divided by 40 hours week divided by 52 weeks a year comes out to $14…..???!!!
Your calculator is malfunctioning.
Togo’s Laguna Hills Hiring Shift Leaders LAGUNA HILLS $10 to $12 per hour. Depends on experience. 12/08 09:48am
AnnScott-
Yea, you’re right, that’s what I get for posting while on the phone my apologies…LOL
With me when I miss something it usually because I paused to yell at my 2 large dogs (combined weight over 245 lbs) DON’T YOU DARE DO ….. - Oh helllll…….
That’s the “Stated” part of the guy’s SISA loan, didn’t you know? If he admits getting paid any less in the press, watch out for a call from Mr. FBI man.
I’ll take a #8 on whole wheat with everything, a #2 on white, hold the peppers, and the $680,000 home on an Adjustable Rate Mortgage with the 1% teaser rate.
No. A number 9. On wheat. Number 9s are excellent.
There are two of them. They both work at Togo’s and make a combined 40k.
In Vegas bank foreclosures are already being offered for 30% or more off peak prices and they still can’t get any action. I just can’t see anything less than 50% off peak in the good areas of town and 65-75% in the bad areas.
It’s gonna be a bloodbath when the 2008 rebound so many are expecting never happens.
But people ARE expecting it to happen! Yep next spring for sure! I know a doctor here in San Mateo Co. She has her house of 20 years on the market. (She does not owe much on the house.) Big surprise here… she hasn’t been able to sell it, so she decided to rent it until next spring/summer. She feels entitled to the ‘equity’ of 2005’s peak…I just don’t get it.
I’ve met a couple of these oldster types who have 80% or more equity and they are refusing to budge. It would be sad if they weren’t holding their breath and stomping their feet at the same time. The crazy thing is these types are the ones who could bail with only part of their tail singed but they are going to get slaughtered, IMO. They have already spent their imaginary paper gains.
One particular guy is asking $700K in East Islip, NY. Public records shows he paid $230K ten years ago. So basically, he is demanding $47K per year appreciation. That’s a job!
I do. It is inherent to the MDs in the US. They have a huge sense of entitlement. MDs in the US make 2-3 times what MDs do in other indusrialized countries. My favortie line from them when anyone suggests that they might possible need to make a little less money to make healthcare more affordable is “BUT I had to go to school for 8 years and have to pay off my loans.” Uh huh….as it that makes them any different from someone who went to law school (7 years) or got a PhD in any field (8-9 years) or vet school (8 years and they have to be smarter as their patients can’t talk.) Don’t see PhDs in even the sciences or vets getting close to what an MD does.
Sorry - just saw the typos. My hands are not doing well on the keyboard - might be time to stop.
Your ignorance is showing–and it aint pretty. MDs go to school for 8 years then do an intership then residency which vary from 2 to 6 years beyond the initial 8. Some like myself do fellowship training 1- 3 years to specialize. My training was 15 years from college to finish. Most residents are paid just above minimum wage when adjusted for an hourly wage. I was paid 28k a year for the last 7 years. No one makes enough to pay the loan principle although many struggle to try to pay interest. The ave Med school debt before interest is approx 160k. finance that at 8-10% for 25 years (15 of training and 10 to pay back ) and while on deferment (no pay) during the residency. Add the time value of money and opportunity cost for and it is a very expensive proposition and not a great business model for a 150k a year job.
When a Doc graduates it is the govt that determines how much he can charge and what he can charge for (all those phone call for whiners like you we do for free). Doctors don’t set fee schedules. Vets, Dentists and PHD’s can and do set their own fee schedules and work a fraction of the hours without the stress/responsibility. A vets liability for your dead cat is about $100.
FYI: The top 5 paid health professions were all dental specialties not medical with oral surgeon being number one.
Society has decided that healthcare is a right but vet/dental/research access is an option. But people have money to spend on optional or alternative healthcare. It is a multi billion dollar industry.
AnnScott people like you are a big part of the healthcare problem—cuz you are often wrong but never in doubt, emphatically disbursing your verbal diarheaa to anyone that will listen. Why don’t you take your sick child or mother over to some 3rd world free clinic where the MD has no liability and put your childs life in their hands. Yes healthcare is expensive, but what will it cost when it is free?
Spacecoast, this is just an anecdote, and I wouldn’t really want my “serious” healthcare to be done outside the US, but I did get the wax blockage removed from my left ear for $15 at a clean otorhinolaryngology office in Merida, Mexico, at a time when it would’ve cost me $100 just to walk into a medical office in LA. Undoubtedly, tort reform in the US would help.
Comment by SpacecoastFLRenter
2007-12-12 20:46:46
Your ignorance is showing–and it aint pretty. MDs go to school for 8 years then do an intership then residency which vary from 2 to 6 years beyond the initial 8. Some like myself do fellowship training 1- 3 years to specialize. My training was 15 years from college to finish
Oh nonsense. I have more advanced degrees than you.
A lawyer straight out of school is not fit to practice law on their own - can’t even find the courthouse or figure out how to write the documents.
They end up going into a firm as an associate. They will spend the next 2-3 years carrying the partner’s briefcase and sitting in the library writing documents. Typical salary is not the figure for Wall St firms but down in the $40k range - and if they do public interest law, try the $30s. They put in 60-70 hours weeks for that. So don’t whine about your ‘hourly pay rate’ as an intern or resident.
After the first 2-3 years, they now get to actually talk to clients under supervision and do appearances on motions. Same or more hours and maybe 15-20% more in pay. This goes on for 5-6 years. Each year they do more and more in terms of responsbility.
Finally, after 7-9 years at the firm, they may finally make junior partner. Salary plus reduced percentage of profits as compared to full partner.
After another 2-3, they may finally make full partner.
Start to finish - try more 14-17 years to make junior partner, particualrly in a specialized area of law. Divorce lawyers are a dime a dozen - and they still spend 4-5 years after law school learning their profession.
Oh yeah, they spend so much less time than you to finally make serious money in their profession.
And don’t whine about insurance reimbursement rates - at least you will get paid something. No such guarantees about legal clients and you can not ethically quit just because they can not longer pay if it could harm the client’s interests.
“AnnScott people like you are a big part of the healthcare problem—cuz you are often wrong but never in doubt, emphatically disbursing your verbal diarheaa to anyone that will listen”
You prove the point - greedy, whiney and “I’m entitled.” I do healthcare economic policy analysis for the Governor’s Committee on the uninsured for my state and listen to your sort all the time. The ‘oh I suffered so much and am entitled to get paid more than anyone else who spent as much time in school or any other MD in any other country’ gets a little old.
I would most certainly NOT call the health care in France or Switzerland “third world.” Check out what their medical professions earn. It is clear that you are grossly ignorant on healthcare policy and economics and spewing out ‘verbal diarreha’ to mask it. (That is another common trait in the US medical profession - an utter lack of social skills or the ability to accept criticism. You really need to address that ‘god complex’ of yours. Perhaps a good therapist?)
BTW, the vet’s liablity for a serious error on my mobiity serivce dogis more like $30,000 plus the costs of assistance until a replacement is available so add another $25,000 for each 6 month period. Further, when I was still doing the Grand Prix show jumpers. blowing it on a $1,000,000 horse was a seriously big mistake.
#1
Comment by SpacecoastFLRenter
2007-12-12 20:46:46
Your ignorance is showing–and it aint pretty. MDs go to school for 8 years then do an intership then residency which vary from 2 to 6 years beyond the initial 8. Some like myself do fellowship training 1- 3 years to specialize. My training was 15 years from college to finish
Oh nonsense. I have more advanced degrees than you.
A lawyer straight out of school is not fit to practice law on their own - can’t even find the courthouse or figure out how to write the documents. They end up going into a firm as an associate. They will spend the next 2-3 years carrying the partner’s briefcase and sitting in the library writing documents. Typical salary is not the figure for Wall St firms but down in the $40k range - and if they do public interest law, try the $30s. They put in 60-70 hours weeks for that. So don’t whine about your ‘hourly pay rate’ as an intern or resident.
After the first 2-3 years, they now get to actually talk to clients under supervision and do appearances on motions. Same or more hours and maybe 15-20% more in pay. This goes on for 5-6 years. Each year they do more and more in terms of responsibility. Finally, after 7-9 years at the firm, they may finally make junior partner. Salary plus reduced percentage of profits as compared to full partner. After another 2-3, they may finally make full partner. Start to finish - try more 14-17 years to make junior partner, particularly in a specialized area of law. Divorce lawyers are a dime a dozen - and they still spend 4-5 years after law school learning their profession. Oh yeah, they spend so much less time than you to finally make serious money in their profession.
And don’t whine about insurance reimbursement rates - at least you will get paid something. No such guarantees about legal clients and you can not ethically quit just because they can not longer pay if it could harm the client’s interests.
# 2
“AnnScott people like you are a big part of the healthcare problem—cuz you are often wrong but never in doubt, emphatically disbursing your verbal diarheaa to anyone that will listen”
You prove the point - greedy, whiney and “I’m entitled.” I do healthcare economic policy analysis for the Governor’s Committee on the uninsured for my state and listen to your sort all the time. The ‘oh I suffered so much and am entitled to get paid more than anyone else who spent as much time in school or any other MD in any other country’ gets a little old. I would most certainly NOT call the health care in France or Switzerland “third world.” Check out what their medical professions earn. It is clear that you are grossly ignorant on healthcare policy and economics and spewing out ‘verbal diarrhea’ to mask it. (That is another common trait in the US medical profession - an utter lack of social skills or the ability to accept criticism. You really need to address that ‘god complex’ of yours. Perhaps a good therapist?)
BTW, the vet’s liaility for a serious error on my mobility service dog is more like $30,000 plus the costs of assistance until a replacement is available so add another $25,000 for each 6 month period. Further, when I was still doing the Grand Prix show jumpers. blowing it on a $1,000,000 horse was a seriously big mistak
LOL I dont know anybody that died from ear wax but I will bet there has been somebody sued for it LOL. You are right but there is a reason for that. Litigation is a only a part of it. The problem is that the overhead of the guy in Mexico is lower. You paid him cash on the spot and I must have 3 full time employees just working with the pts and insurance trying to get paid. The vast majority of patients are on medicare or comercial insurance and each has a diffeent set of rules and requirements. but that is way off topic….my BP has lowered…I can move on LOL
Law school takes three years, not seven. A Ph.D. averages around 5-6 depending on the discipline. 8-9 would be at the extreme end of things, and most universities would terminate a student who took that long.
spacecoast,
good post. Of course, lawyers and malpractice insurance have driven health care costs sky high. And insurance company profits–United Healthcare CEO McGuire got 124.8 million in compensation in 2005 alone. Think that kind of greed could drive up costs a tad?
As for vets–in Manhattan, at Animal General, it’s 175 to walk in the office for a 15 minute annual check-up, shots extra. Better than dentistry?? Animal dentistry–anaesthesia, med tech and vet dentist for routine cleaning, plus blood work–$420.
I don’t go to doctors often, but when I do, I don’t begrudge them their fees. I only carry catastrophic coverage, so I write a check. I’ve spent a lot of time finding a handful, and I’m grateful for their expertise. This is not where I try to save money–this is where finding the best is what matters.
$100 is cheap! I paid over $150 to have a wax blockage removed in SF just a few months ago. This was at the walk-in clinic at UCSF Medical Center, well worth avoiding unless you are absolutely rock-solid certain that the random doctor who treats you, and not merely the clinic itself, is on your insurer’s “in-network” list. Lesson learned!
I used to work next to a medical building. Amazing how all those ‘poor’ doctors where all driving top of the line mercedes.
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that if all MD’s/DOs in the USA worked for free, “healthcare” would still be unaffordable. Does anyone here know what a CBC or a day on a ventilator in an ICU costs, retail, exclusive of physician’s fees? I thought so.
i have to agree with spacecoast.
and increasingly, people are going to india to have expensive medical procedures — including organ transplants — done at 15% to 20% of the cost in the u.s. i wouldn’t be surprised if in the next few years the requirement/option of medical ‘tourism’ will be one of the cost-saving innovations embedded/offered contractually in u.s. healthcare plans.
@SpacecoastFLRenter
Testify! I was an internal medicine specialist consultant for 20 years. The nature of the job and the working conditions just kept getting worse every year. Finally I burnt out and hung up my stethoscope. Of note, since I didn’t earn a proper salary until aged 35, rented during training, and left Stanford with a ton of 12% student loans, I ended up with fewer assets than my BIL who dropped out of high school to become a mechanic and played the property game from the age of 20. And yes, the horrid attitude of people like AnnScott was a big factor in encouraging me to quit medicine. Screw the ingrates. I see the experienced nurses doing the same, for the same reasons.
When I was a kid I had to walk up hill to school both ways. I also wore an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time.
Comment by SpacecoastFLRenter
2007-12-12 20:46:46
Your ignorance is showing–and it aint pretty. MDs go to school for 8 years then do an intership then residency which vary from 2 to 6 years beyond the initial 8. Some like myself do fellowship training 1- 3 years to specialize. My training was 15 years from college to finish
Oh nonsense. I have more advanced degrees than you.
A lawyer straight out of school is not fit to practice law on their own - can’t even find the courthouse or figure out how to write the documents. They end up going into a firm as an associate. They will spend the next 2-3 years carrying the partner’s briefcase and sitting in the library writing documents. Typical salary is not the figure for Wall St firms but down in the $40k range - and if they do public interest law, try the $30s. They put in 60-70 hours weeks for that. So don’t whine about your ‘hourly pay rate’ as an intern or resident. You were no worse off than a brand new JD or a brand new PhD in much of anything.
After the first 2-3 years, they now get to actually talk to clients under supervision and do appearances on motions. Same or more hours and maybe 15-20% more in pay. This goes on for 5-6 years. Each year they do more and more in terms of responsibility. Finally, after 7-9 years at the firm, they may finally make junior partner. Salary plus reduced percentage of profits as compared to full partner. After another 2-3, they may finally make full partner. Start to finish - try more 14-17 years to make junior partner, particularly in a specialized area of law. Divorce lawyers are a dime a dozen - and they still spend 4-5 years after law school learning their profession. Oh yeah, they spend so much less time than you to finally make serious money in their profession.
And don’t whine about insurance reimbursement rates - at least you will get paid something. No such guarantees about legal clients and you can not ethically quit just because they can not longer pay if it could harm the client’s interests.
“AnnScott people like you are a big part of the healthcare problem—cuz you are often wrong but never in doubt, emphatically disbursing your verbal diarheaa to anyone that will listen”
You prove the point - greedy, whiney and “I’m entitled.” I do healthcare economic policy analysis for the Governor’s Committee on the uninsured for my state and listen to your sort all the time. The ‘oh I suffered so much and am entitled to get paid more than anyone else who spent as much time in school or any other MD in any other country’ gets a little old. I would most certainly NOT call the health care in France or Switzerland “third world.” Check out what their medical professions earn. It is clear that you are grossly ignorant on healthcare policy and economics and spewing out ‘verbal diarrhea’ to mask it. (That is another common trait in the US medical profession - an utter lack of social skills or the ability to accept criticism. You really need to address that ‘god complex’ of yours. Perhaps a good therapist?)
BTW, the vet’s liaility for a serious error on my mobility service dog is more like $30,000 plus the costs of assistance until a replacement is available so add another $25,000 for each 6 month period. Further, when I was still doing the Grand Prix show jumpers. blowing it on a $1,000,000 horse was a seriously big mistak
I suspect that you did not get into med school hence the venom towards MD’s (You have more degrees than me??WTF is this— a lets see whose is bigger thing?)
Regarding my entitllement–you are partially right. I am entitled to a life and to fair compensation. There is not enough money to compensate me for the loss of time spent with my family- holidays night and weekends for over 20 years taking care of those with no money in the ER/hospital. Now you want me to do more for less? I am a cad cuz I wont? Reality check for you. Your Doctor is not your Mommy or Daddy always there 24/7 never expecting anything from you. I think the exaggerated sense of entitlement you talk about is staring back at you in the mirror.
FYI There is no guarentee of payment for you doctor by your insurance company. Bad debt runs from 5-60% based on practice style. That is why there has been a class action lawsuit against every major carrier in the last 7 years (BCBS Aetna United Cigna etc) Besides physician salary is less than 11% of healthcare costs. Useless paper pushers like yourself account for over 20%. If you really did healthcare policy of any quality you would know that. Regardless, your limited experience in the upper peninsula of Michigan is irrelevant to most of the US and especially here in FL. After you have spent 10 years taking care of those uninsured then give us your expert paper pushing opinion (vomit).
You can always get more money, you cannot get more time. I have done my time for the betterment of my world. After reading your BS I am just happy you are not a part of my world.
Those of us that were on this board last year at this time remember “everyone” saying the turn around was going to be the spring of 2007. That sure didn’t materialize. What are “they” going to do when the 2008 spring RE season turns out to be worse than the 2007 season ?
People have no idea that this is the START of the turndown. We aren’t anywhere near the midway point yet. Not even close. Joe Average has no idea how bad RE is going to get.
Isn’t it funny how Japan has been trying to turn around their economy for more than 10 years after their RE bust. And nobody here uses that as a guide. Somehow they think we are different. We aren’t 10 months into our bust and its way bigger.
I say it will take 10 YEARS for house prices to reach bottom.
10 years?
Closer to 19!!! (depending how you count peak, etc.)
Do a little digging. I laid out the Japan scenario several times here. But our experience will be far worse.
Could be worse. Japan has been a major exporter of capital for decades. Being a major debtor nation makes it more of an uphill battle to escape deflation.
People keep on comparing the US today to Japan of the 80s which has always struck me as odd. Look how long their deflation occurred! But the Japan of the 80s was still a massively productive, economic powerhouse and a creditor. Japan had the financial strength to decide how they wanted to suffer. The US?
But everyone knows that Japan tried to bail out their lenders and keep the garbage loans afloat, and that was what kept their malaise going for so long. Obviously the USA would never do that! Oh wait.
Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Could it be that Japanese are big savers because of deflation? Why spend your money when what ever you want to purchase will cost less next year? Even if interest rates are zero if there is deflation best to leave cash in the bank. They export capital for the same reason. If deflationary forces win out then you may see Americans become much better at saving. Deflation keeps people from spending taking risk and going to work and thus our central banks are dumping cash on the system and always try to maintain a modest degree of inflation. I wonder how much this may have influenced rate cuts in the US during the Greenspan years??
But, But, But, the Realterwhore told me that the real estate market is going to take off after the Patriots wax the Cowboys in the Super Bowl. 2010 anyone?
Is Vegas one of those places that may end up running out of water? It IS in a desert…
“The Berkeley City Council will consider a plan tonight to give homeowners facing foreclosure one-time loans and counseling to keep up with their mortgage payments.”
Time for a Hail Mary pass…
“Rae Mary, Berkeley’s interim housing department director, said her department would be a logical place to implement these kinds of programs, but money to run them could be a problem. ‘I’m a little concerned about resources to do it,’ Mary said.”
Batted down in the end zone…
Just add a tree hugger to the mix — no evictions there………..
“Hail Mary pass…”
Berzerkly is a place where all religion is tolerated, except Christianity! You can praise any Shaman/Witchdoctor or the Deli Lama but heaven forbid you say the lords prayer!
Berkeley is a baston of Communisim, and over priced real estate. Great combination !!
“Tenured Communists,” used to refer to CUNY profs who advocated overthrowing the system, but not if they had to catch a union meeting where they would bitch about their benefits.
“but money to run them could be a problem”
Ya think? I’m thinking even Berkeley citizens will have a problem with throwing money down a hole.
They don’t call it Berserkley for nothing.
Rae Mary would like to give home debtors one-time loans and a little counseling, but wonders where to find the resources.
Good thinking, little Rae. Til the season to be generous, so open up your checkbook and write a little gift to your favorite FB.
You’ll feel so much better about the whole ‘credit crunch’ experience.
“The Berkeley City Council will consider a plan tonight to give homeowners facing foreclosure one-time loans and counseling to keep up with their mortgage payments.. but money to run them could be a problem.”
Typical for CA. Legislate but don’t fund. Our typical liberal leaders in action, it’s called ‘Feel Good Legislation’.
Sort of like your hero, Shrub. The Republic party is the king of unfunded mandates.
See: No Child Left Behind.
Not a “Hail Mary” but a “lateral” (the ball is thrown backward, so that the team loses ground.)
I hope Berkeley gives as many loans as it takes for the municipal government to go bankrupt.
Aladin,
Dang!
Quiet (riot) humor!
Ya make us laugh - intelligent humor
Leigh
“Just south of Los Angeles, there is a small city called Paramount where houses have all but stopped selling. As home prices rose ever higher in other parts of Southern California, Paramount became all the more attractive — and prices eventually soared there as well. By last year, the typical house sold for almost $500,000, up from $200,000 in early 2003.”
Paramount is a mighty big name for a small, dirty industrial city that was borderline dangerous back in the 70’s, and no place you’d want to be now.
1/2 a Million for a 3/2?
yikes.
An area like that has no business being priced over $150k to $175k for a 1800 sqft 3 & 2. IMO that’s too much. Borderline dangerous…try Iraq on steroids now. Nothing East of the 110 is worth more than $150k unless it’s been updated to a gold Leeds rating.
Paramount used to be called East Compton. They changed the name to upgrade the image. I used to work there. It’s still a really scary place sandwiched between Compton and Bellflower.
For a second I was thinking, “No, Paramount isn’t south of LA, it’s in the SFV.” Then I realized I was thinking of Panorama City. All these h-holes have fancy names.
“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
Take their house if they can’t pay for it, and jail the mortgage broker who obviously lied on their paperwork to facilitate this loan. Punish one, teach a thousand…..
I am over the bail out plan, I want to see heads roll, arrests, court dates, sentencing, sofa’s and tv’s on the lawn with the FB’s wearing signs - I Overpaid, HELCO’d the “Phantom” Equity, Spent it All, and all I got was “Bankrupt”
I want the news to really show the greed factor, not the medical bankrupcty or divorce cases…I want to see the couple who bought everything they could and now can’t pay for it. I would like to see that reality show since there is a TV writer’s strike…
“I bought a $680,000 house
and all I got was this
lousy T-Shirt!”
I’m getting the silk-screening order in now…
Ufunny!
The upper Inland Empire is a breeding ground for utter numbskulls…
“A couple of top bidders in a no-minimum-bid auction of foreclosed homes nearly a month ago in Stockton are not only unhappy that banks didn’t accept their bids or even negotiate a sale, they haven’t gotten back thousands of dollars in deposits.”
Aladin,
I wonder why the deposits are withheld?
Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot…
Just try to keep my monies! grrr…spontaneous combustion!
Beware of the evil laser beams!
Ya just can’t make this stuff up!
Leigh
er…meaning the auction house that did not refund said moneys…not you!
Maybe it’s the next new scam in the housing bubble — stage a sham auction, seize the deposits, turn down all bids, & leave the country.
“‘They’re paying $4,000-$5,000 a month”
The real kick is there isnt many jobs that pay that much net-net!
Prices in Santa Cruz nearly tripled over the past 8 years with salary bearing inching with inflation. So what gives?
“The Berkeley City Council”
About as Left Wing as you can imagine! 2nd only to the Soviet Union. Wonder how they feel that their over priced homes are now dropping in value down by 50%.
““‘It was a waste of my time,’ said Lewis Stallworth Jr., a Stockton man who put in a top bid of $135,000 for a north Stockton house. ‘I feel like it was almost a scam.”
LOL! 135K for a Stockton home is about right! That what they are worth. The stupid sellers still think they are worth $500K or more!
We are seeing dropps or 20% in San Mateo.. looking for that to go up to 50% and spread from San Francisco to Gilroy.
Yes! this is not a mortgage problem its a affordibility problem. We are down to 5% able to buy. Last time was nearly 10% and then the 40% decline hit… now its going to be a 50% hit!!!
LMAO!
I moved to Santa Cruz a little over 2 years ago, thinking it was just going to be a temporary thing. I love it here and now with the inevitible decline to more affordable prices, I think I might just stay.
While there’s a lot of out of town money here, with the UC students and the retirees, I’ve been baffled how the locals even come close to affording $750k at the low end. It seems that this place survives on tourist money and everyone else either works in construction or a hippy service industry job like massage therapy.
I say let it crash and burn. Someday I’ll have that house on WestCliff, secured with a fat down payment and a sane 30 year mortgage.
I love WestCliff Drive and some of the houses along there.
Hey, hey, this is not a lending library. If you’re not going to buy that thing put it down or I’ll blow your heads off!
“CIM’s move follows a similar decision last year by Texas home builder D.R. Horton to abandon its plans for a 21-story ‘Library Lofts’ project at the same site.”
The Contra Costa Times. “The Berkeley City Council will consider a plan tonight to give homeowners facing foreclosure one-time loans and counseling to keep up with their mortgage payments.”
““Martinez said struggling borrowers have flocked to his office asking for help. ‘They can’t read English. Whatever people told them, they believed,’ he said.”
Anyone see a pattern here? In one case, the homeowners are ‘victims’ because they’re Latino and can’t speak English. More that they’re Hispanic, thus the fact that they bought something they couldn’t afford must surely be the fault of the lenders.The Bay Area is a very ethnically diverse area so if you’re going to start with one ethnic group, then you might as well include all the others- including anglo-saxons because I’m quite sure that every ethnic group has been affected by this. To suggest otherwise is in itself racist.
…But on the other hand you have more ‘poor’ people in Berkeley who are ALSO about to default and foreclose. What’s the excuse here? I lived in Berkeley for four years and to say the least, the city is full of extremely wealthy, educated, sort of snotty-liberal people who ‘think’ that paying out the nose for a house there is worth whatever sacrifice they can endure.Why? Because it’s Berkeley and they can sit in their own little make-believe fairyland and bash whoever’’s President all day long and have everyone agree with them.How politically and self-assuredly convenient. So- I suppose they’re ‘victims’ because they’re hippies and left-wingers?In that case- then some of those Conservative enclaves in Texas had better be bailed out too.
The entitlement Bullshjt is aggravating and childish. People were jackasses. Plain and simple, and if they lose their homes because they couldn’t afford it , then that’s not my problem nor anyone else’s problem except for the buyer and NOBODY else. Nobody forced them to buy, and Nobody should bail them out of their own mistakes.I make mistakes too, but when I do so, I pay for them.Anyone ever heard of a word called responsibility?
you mean accountability and yes I agree….and I am one of those liberals LOL.
It isn’ political allegiances that make people think they are entitled. It is a sense that they are ’superior’ and ’should have it all.’ Whether they vote Dem or Rep, libertarian or green, they are all prooud of their symbols of financial success - even when hock, not to their eyeballs, but over their heads.
God knows I have been watching our 2nd home owers who arrive every summer with their Bush/Cheney stickers on their Hummers go flying into foreclosure on their $500,000 condos, $800,000+ cottages on an inner lake and their $1,700,000 beach front houses on Lake Michigan. They weep and wail with the best of them that they ‘deserve help’ and, the current lament, is that ‘it’s not fair that the interest freeze doesn’t apply to 2nd homes’!!!
well, in my mind, political allegiance is precisely why the Bay Area is overpriced. This is just one of many reasons, but a pretty big one. Simply put, people in the Bay Area think that they’re the center of the universe, and their mystical powers of having what in their minds appears to be a vastly superior political/economic/whatever environment makes them also think that they’re also impervious to basic economic sense. In effect, they lack common sense, which is something I seem to find lacking from a great many “intellectual” people.
Wow, jetson_boy, you must have been hanging out with the wrong crowd. I’ve was born in SF and raised on the Peninsula and the people that I know and have known have never considered themselves superior, center of the universe, or have mystical powers. Maybe you should start hanging out with a different group of people.
“think that they’re the center of the universe”.
Yep.
Da bigger they are, da harder they fall?
Ann, I’m familiar with your part of Michigan & recall very few Bush/Cheney stickers on any vehicles in your neck of the woods. Still saw quite a few Al Gore stickers — in 2006.
This is the same city council that just passed anti-homeless ordinances. No peeing, sex or napping in public. So sad.
OT here. A question for the economic gurus.
If the Feds continue to inject funds into the banks and do this over and over (which they just may, and have already - 2 weeks ago?) then banks are even worse off than we thought - yes? — then will we be looking at constant upticks in the market?
The banks have to pay all that discount money back right ?
This could be the big loophole
They can take out a loan from the FED using toilet paper as collateral.
They can now do this annonymously, I think this is the biggest feature of this new plan.
What’s to say they won’t go to the FED with a wink wink nod nod and say hay we can’t pay back the loan. You can have the toilet paper.
This allows the FED to buy this crap off the banks. No one will know because it’s all done behind closed doors. Isn’t our government great.
The market will crash when they realize the Fed can’t save it from the fundamentals. There is way too much debt floating around, J6P is broke, the housing market has 10 more years to reach bottom and the US dollar will tank unless interest rates go up.
I say the Fed isn’t going to be able to continually drop rates and inject cash. Sooner or later they will say enough is enough and let a couple banks fail. That will be a very sobering message to the market.
I think this week was step #1 in Ben Bernanke’s new plan. The old Ben would have cut 50 bps.
Tweedle Dee,
Do you see BB new plan is to raise interest rates?
Wow, BB raise interest rates? I would if I were him, especially since Wall Street was so ungrateful about what the gift they got from the Fed. Like, aw boo, is that all you’re gonna give us? Boo-hiss and all that.
Now, if I’m a Fed-head, that’d tick me off good. And I’d say, OK, boys, here’s a raise in rates for ya. Put that in your SIV and smoke it.
With the way collateral is deflating,
SIV=Sieve
I hope so I’d love to see Cramer being taken out of CNBC studios in a straitjacket
The situation is so bad he probably wants four quarter point drops then a pause and another two quarter points.
Spreading it out.
Next action is to float the Fed Funds rate.
I agree with Tweedle Dee. Bennie and the Feds aren’t going to bail Jim Cramer’s buddies out with negative interest rates and helicopters. It will be more like an RTC operation with many pounds of flesh extracted from the people who packaged and resold the toxic waste.
This actually may indicate a rise in RE values in places that do not have extradition treaties with Uncle Sam. Maybe I should snap up some sweet property deals in Panama… then sell them to the fugitives - they will probably be able to pay cash, and they won’t be in much of a position to negotiate. Of course, with the money these guys were making, they probably already have their safe house ready. Oh, well.
Oh, is that why there’s an ad for Mongolian real estate on this blog? Maybe you could get a deal in outer Mongolia.
OK palmetto, this is comical but I don’t see the ad. Where’s it?
Ulan Bator the capital is a real Cold Place.
Mongolia?!
That’s like the bit I read here a few months back about a real estate Bubble in Yellowknife?! No offense meant to folks in those areas, but still… yeesh!
23 N Middleridge Lane, Rolling Hills, 90274
Status: ACT MLS#: P949144 $1,789,000*
List Dt:06/17/2007 PType: SFR-D Orig Price: $2,250,000
check out this price drop. Nice community of rolling hills except house sits like real close to a busy two lane road packed in morning and afternoons.
and it was built in 1953 or 1957 which was like a really long time ago in scheme of things.
It’s almost hard to get mad anymore. Hardly anybody has anything but a glum outlook, and even the happy-go-lucky types are predicting 10% price declines.
Oh, if only Lawrence Yun would pop his head out of the NAR Gopher Hole and spout off. Then I could summon the rage required to hold him down while ex-nmb implants a joshua tree and Sammy tazes his sack to make sure he clamps down firmly enough to learn his lesson.
As it is… I just shake my head and tell my wife to wake me in 2009.
it seems like some posts above are supportive of the banks - I think they are the worst offenders - I would like some help understanding this - my post from another site below
**************************************************************************
I may be wrong here, but it seems like all of people’s anger at lazy, greedy borrowers and scamming mortgage companies is warranted, but the folks who really deserve our rage for inflating the housing marker are banks like WaMu.
These banks are highly trained professionals who new, or should have known, the enormous risk involved.
It seems to me (and I know little about this so please correct me if I am wrong) - if they had stopped buying these mortgages, Countrypuke and the like could not have sold them, and greedy buyers could not have gotten them. The buyers DO NOT OWN these houses, the BANKS DO and now they are going to beg for a bailout when the market tanks. I say let WaMu and others heavily invested in crappy mortgages go to hell, they had all of the tools, experience, knowledge, and highly paid experts that should have prevented this bubble - instead they chose to fiendishly collect money on risky mortgages like a heroin addict. I hope they crash and burn.
Part of the problem was that the secondary market kept supplying money for high risk loans because of the ratings on these loan bundles
.Wall Street was making tons on the commissions and so were the lenders who passed the loan packages on to this secondary market (along with the risk and the fraudulent loan packages ).Realtors were making tons on all the sales ,(especially at the higher prices and turnover of sales ), and builders were raking it in also marketing homes to speculators and unqualified buyers .
Lenders breached their duty to underwrite the loans and prevent fraud and regulators were sleeping on the job,including the rating agencies .
In fact , everybody in the industry that is involved with the real estate chain from purchase to the loan being placed with loan investors ,who buy big bundles of loans,failed to protect the final investors . Now the industry has burned those investors and they don’t want to make do do loans anymore and they are screaming victim.
Usually with prudent lending , if a loan is high risk ,the borrower is made to put more money down ,or the loan is insured .During the madhatter lending cycle of the last 7 years ,Wall Street came up with false models of risk and if you combine that with fraud in lending ,it’s a disaster waiting to happen .Giving low down stated income loans has got to be one of the worst loan risks ,yet these loans were marketed in the secondary market as a lower risk than they were because the easy money and fraudulent lending and faulty appraisals were making real estate go up ,so the foreclosures didn’t start yet . These borrower had no ability to sustain the loan if real estate didn’t go up .
Yes, its the lenders fault because you can’t just let borrowers determine what they can qualify for ,or let them commit fraud on the loan packages because they think they are going to make a ton of money from a appreciating market .
If the investors in the secondary market had true knowledge of the lack of ability of these borrowers to re-pay the loan ,they would not of provided those funds .The commissioned loan people and their companies and the borrowers made these loans look like pretty packages that conformed to the guidelines of the loan and the hit the mark appraisals looked justified .
Can you imagine that these liar loan borrowers and these lenders and Wall Street ,that breached their duty to prevent fraud or underwrite loans in a proper manner ,want to be bailed out by our tax-dollars or some bail out or at the price of inflation to all . They can all burn in hell .
These borrower had no ability to sustain the loan if real estate didn’t go up .
If the investors in the secondary market had true knowledge of the lack of ability of these borrowers to re-pay the loan ,they would not of provided those funds .
Unless these investors, like everyone else, had convinced themselves that RE prices would continue to rocket skyward.. which, imo, they did.
Housing Wizard,
Thanks for the explanation - it does make more sense. However, it is this statement below that I dont get. For “economy crashing” amounts of money, and everyone screaming that it cannot go on - wasn’t anyone saying to the investors in the secondary market - watch out for the crapola you are buying? I have very little sympathy for those who are getting burned….
>If the investors in the secondary market had true knowledge of >the lack of ability of these borrowers to re-pay the loan ,they
>would not of provided those funds .
Frequently as I drove home past $700,000 neighborhoods I ask myself who are all the people who can afford to live there. Now I know the answer, it’s the guys who made my sandwich for lunch!! ROTFLMAO
Our extended family used to always question the trend, too. How come we’re all working and saving and we can’t afford all this crap everyone else has - big house, new cars, cruises, exotic vacations, jewelry, toys, electronics and on and on. Now I don’t feel so bad because they’re going to lose it all and have to go backwards and we’re all doing just fine.
LOL …All along it was the sandwich guys and gals .I remember when I was going to sell my house I asked the Realtors who were the buyers these days at the high prices and the Realtor couldn’t answer the question . I than said to the Realtors that before I went into escrow on a deal I wanted to make sure the borrower qualified ,and I got “the look “. As it turned out the guy that bought my property paid cash ,so a loan didn’t come into play .Of course I found out later from this blog that qualifying wasn’t a issue ,so now I know why the Realtors couldn’t answer that question I asked .
ask the shoeshine boy “So, how’s the real estate market around here? umm.. careful near the socks.”
“It blows! and you’re talking to someone who knows.. I’m stuck for 1.2 mill.”
20 people living in one house, the dollar on par to becoming a banana republic currency, the so-called opposition party giving in to that incredible “Moron-In-The-White-House” as they roll over (just reported) and give him billions more confetti dollars WITHOUT any reference to pulling troops out of the quigmire he and Darth Cheney created when their attempt to steal another countries oil (an intended thank you gift to their corrupt oil buddies). Add that to Mr. Magoo denying he has any responsibility for the property meltdown. Jeez, the list gets longer every day and we are not even into 2008 which is starting to look like a financial horror story. Canada is looking more inviting every day. This is what you get when you elect a Prince (G.W Bush) when the King (G.H Bush) leaves the throne.
I wish we stole some oil. At least we would be better off
A co-worker owns a house in Paramount.
It is one tough hood. He told me that mexicans set up shop (stores) right on the sidewalkslike a swapmeet and the city does nothing! Gun shots are very frequent and in the evening it is hard to tell if it’s the TV or the Hood.
“One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
This, folks, is what’s propped up housing prices. Not income. Not demand from Boomers or their children. Not the snowbirds. Not the weather. Not the tech jobs.
I’m starting to think that anyone who bought after 2001 will be toast.
We’ll all be doing each other’s laundry for a living, but residing in $680,000 homes.
Yup, that’ll work.
Does the government really think people will start buying houses and doing HELOCS again?
The pigmen are salivating waiting for the refi crap to begin again and save the housing market.
Sorry Boys but after xmas most people will not be interested in stimulating your credit default swaps anymore.
NO REFI= NO FEES=DOA
I tried to explain Credit default swaps and their risk to coworkers today. Failed. For the record… these weren’t the Ph.D’s (they get it), but rather the non-degreed engineers. Ugh… Why? They were arguing how banks had to go back to low down payment mortgages. Umm… No they don’t. Remember the ‘golden rule?’
Got popcorn?
Neil
Is it “The man with the gold makes the rules”, or “Do unto others…” ?
The golden rule? He who has the popcorn… ???
I can’t believe an engineer wouldn’t get this stuff. The math is trivial compared to the simplest engineering problem. But some engineers do seem to have trouble understanding how money works. Even if they took “engineering economics” in school, they would not have been exposed to finance, just how to make a business case for a product.
The key is non-degreed engineer. I’ve worked with plenty. They openly admit they were terrible at math but somehow managed to get in a position where they have “engineer” in their title.
Neil,
I wish the quants were simply engineers…
Unfortunately, luv, they’re nuclear physicist…
Hence implosion?
Sigh,
Leigh
Are “non-degreed” engineers those who were techs long enough to be promoted into the engineering position? I met a few of those when I worked for the navy.
non-degreed engineers
How is that even possible?
My dad was a non-degreed engineer. He went to work for Ford Motor in 1955 after he got out of the service. In those days the car companies had night schools after work. It was great - he worked all day and studied at night for a few years. Promotions and opportunities followed. Those were the days. GM and Chrysler had the same programs. The big problem was that management never figured out what Americans wanted to drive after the 70s came. Dream over.
Is that like those “sanitation engineers”?
can ya smell the fear yet?
I have come to the conclusion that the FED and all the Central Banks that are on board are starting to get FEARFUL. Why the quarter point move, and then get the insiders data on the “new and impoverished” version of the liquidity scheme to get the futures shooting up?
Again, this is not a liquidity problem, thats the smoke and mirrors to sway the sheeple into thinking this is about credit. This is about insolvency. The insolvency of the US government to actually pay back any debt with future tax receipts. We are still in crisis mangement mode and the desperation is palpable. Now the FED is trying to figure out how to get hard currency into the hands of hegde funds, as well as, other NON-DEPOSITORY INSTITUTIONS who are holding the toxic garbage. This scheme will fail, as have all other attempts to repair the machine by lowering rates.
The non-depository institutions must be pension funds who are getting hammered. The inability of the pensions to fullfill obligations is a dire consequence indeed.
Why are the Central Banks supporting the equity markets with intervention that is reaking of desperation? The moves by the CB’s are supporting the equities in a way that is out of normal bounds of decency for those that “panicked” early and realized the situation for what it was….
Insolvency with a lack of credibility while pumping liquidity will have a result, but as usuall, Mr Market is not gonna let that money fall into the weak hands.
You got it. The indices haven’t priced it in, yet.
Good points vozworth .
Insolvency is the main concern and who said the institutions are going to pay back the Feds Discount loans if some institutions go belly up .
You can’t make a bad loan good and you can’t stop a falling market .
I’m guessing this is the way the debt will disappear via a back door printing press.
Unless you are talking about hyperinflation, it’s very hard for inflation to stand a chance against the deflation resulting from a credit-fueled speculation of historic size. Japan tried in the late 80s, and it didn’t work, and the US of 2007 doesn’t have that financial strength.
Comment by Blackbox
That would be like renting, and renting is like so next year!
This is a good one, and I plan to steal it!!
LMAO
Emilio Martinez, a private investigator who has worked with hundreds of Latino homeowners in Santa Cruz, Monterey and San Benito counties, said he’s reviewed 300 Watsonville homes in foreclosure from the past three months and found 78 percent owed more than they paid for their homes.
Anyone that’s familiar with that area will immediately know that there are a LOT of illegal immigrants living in Watsonville, what with it being basically an ag town and all.
I’m willing to bet that a good portion of that seventy-eight percent are illegals.
Roger White, VP of development
this is starting to remend me of the Eddie Murphy bit on SNL
Mr White
and the hispanicals
Cali threads are the best, you guys are on fire tonight !!
You guys really need to check out zillow thread and those irrellevant zestimates:
http://www.zillow.com/forum/site/ViewThread.htm?tid=891
from a post:
The closest “comp” to my property is the house at 1713 Huntington in Nichols Hills (up the street from my house) that sold in Feb. at $290,000. What is so frustrating is that you don’t take into account lot size or quality of the house. You have the house next to mine listed at $279,000 but all the kids bedrooms are in rough shape. My lot is a third of an acre and around here land is critical because builders seek out lots that they can buy old houses, tear them down and build brand new larger homes. In fact the house next to me on the west side is being torn down and a new larger ($500,000) house is being built. My house has been completely rennovated and in great shape. I’m currently trying to sell it and your zestimates are scaring people away. My address is 1402 Sherwood Lane, Nichols Hills, OK 73116
“your zestimates are scaring people away” - what a laugh. Falling prices are scaring people away. Neg cash flow on rental property is scaring people away. Having to have a lot of skin in the game is scaring people away. Knowing that the game is really over is scaring people away. Zestimates are the least of it.
A piece of real estate or any other item is only worth what an individual is willing to pay.
All I have to say is…
LET THEM ALL BURN!!
Clownifornia has nowhere to go but down. Prices in my former “hood” of Encino (north of Los Angeles) are already back to 2004-2005 levels; and that is for the few houses that actually sell these days.
And remember that Encino is still mostly a nice neighborhood. Other places like Paramount and Palmdale are nothing but third-world ghettos crawling with cholos, illegals, white trash, f*cked-up flippers and clueless gringos that are aliens in their own land. I wouldn’t pay $1 for a house there, much less what the “owners” think they “deserve” for their dumps.
Burn, baby, burn! And pass the popcorn, of course.
I love how those on the foreclosure path want the lender to change the terms of the loan simply because the home is worth less than the loan balance. Classic. It’s as if they don’t realize the lender actually had to pay that money to the previous owner at the close of escrow.
When someone buys a home for $200k and sells it for $500k, does the bank come whining about how they should get part of the profit since they house is worth so much more? Would the seller consent to such a thing? Of course not. Yet the morons who took out these loans want that financial double standard for themselves. Sorry, Charley. You took out that loan, now you gotta deal with the consequences.
Yo, Ron, that’s called Mexican economics.
I know a house in Hollister where three families are living together, 20 people in one house
Imagine the toilet in that house!
This is not housing bubble related directly. But as you read it, you will find that people react in herds. Since everyone was buying houses, they had to also.
http://happybrainstorming.com/social-proof-or-why-we-like-what-other-people-like/
Great piece on the NAR forcasting: But within the fraternity of financial and fiscal forecasters, the seers at the National Association of Realtors—longtime chief economist David Lereah and his successor Lawrence Yun—may be uniquely ill-equipped to deliver sobering forecasts. They work for a trade group whose mission is to buck up the spirits of real-estate brokers. And real-estate brokers—who live to sell, promote, and market—are constitutionally disinclined to hear anything but good news. Indeed, as I noted last summer, Lereah’s penchant for putting out positive spin on dismal housing numbers inspired a blog and led critics to dub him the Baghdad Bob of real estate. Lereah has moved on. But Yun has picked up where he left off. http://www.slate.com/id/2179605/
Ben, you need to post a “Bedtime Bits Bucket” before checking out for the day. Too much success…
You read a story like that one, and at this point there is no sane thing to do other than sit back and just laugh and laugh and laugh…we are entering looney land. And the “journalist”…these poor little Hispanic people, and they’re expected to HONOR a contract? What next, concentration camps??
““One case involves people who make $40,000 a year making sandwiches at Togo’s. They bought a $680,000 home and can’t afford it.”
“He advises borrowers to stay in their homes even if they can’t make payments. ‘I know a house in Hollister where three families are living together, 20 people in one house,’ he said.””
This could only happen in America. Greed-driven stupidity at it’s Zenith. It’s appalling, funny and frightening as hell.
DOC
“Mr. Endo added: ‘We’re going through that transition where sellers can’t accept that prices are falling. They’re still caught up in this idea that their property is worth more than it is. It’s just strange.’”
‘It’s just stupid’ is more like it!
“Rae Mary, Berkeley’s interim housing department director, said her department would be a logical place to implement these kinds of programs, but money to run them could be a problem. ‘I’m a little concerned about resources to do it,’ Mary said.”
A program to help those cannot afford a house to pay for their house? Now that is an oxymoron.
If it teaches people to do math, that will be all I am for. The graduates will foreclose and be more clever next time, as not to put themselves as a burden to the society and not to ruin their lives again.