December 24, 2007

It’s Drastically Different From Other Times In The Market

A report from the Arizona Republic. “A major Valley real estate broker shut its doors just days before Christmas, leaving 350 agents without a home, and about 20 salaried employees without a job. RE/MAX 2000, based in Gilbert, is closing its 13 offices around the Valley. An attorney for owner Robert Kline told 12 News Sunday the company was not generating enough sales to meet its expenses because of the Valley’s depressed housing market.”

“As for the timing of the closing, attorney Dax Watson said, ‘We felt it wouldn’t be fair to our clients to wait.’”

“Bruce Fraser, an agent with RE/MAX 2000 in Gilbert, said Sunday the company held its Christmas party about two weeks ago, and there were no signs the broker was in trouble. ‘I did not see this coming,’ he said.”

“But Fraser said he had already received about a dozen calls Sunday from other brokers looking to hire him.”

“A year ago, Phoenix housing counselor Joann Hauger spent her days helping people buy their first home. Now, the executive director of non-profit Community Housing Resources of Arizona is swamped with calls from homeowners about to lose their homes.”

“‘So many people were in denial too long,’ said Hauger, referring to homeowners who took out loans they didn’t understand or couldn’t afford. ‘I am afraid the problem is much worse than many people think.’”

“‘There are some very sad stories, and there are some people who made bad decisions,’ she said.”

“Sales slowed and listings climbed across the Valley, but prices hadn’t yet slipped much from the speculator-spurred run-up of 2004-05. Many sellers were still holding out for those inflated prices and the hope that the market would rebound in early 2007.”

“‘People would come to us wanting help purchasing a new home somewhere in one of the Valley’s outer suburbs, but they didn’t have the income to do it,’ said Hauger. ‘Many didn’t like what they heard and went to a mortgage broker who would make the loan.’”

“‘We were appalled when we saw what kind of loans people were getting to buy homes last year and the year before,’ she said. ‘People would call looking for down-payment help to buy a $300,000 house. We would look at their monthly income and see they should only qualify for a $120,000 loan.’”

“By February, Community Housing began receiving calls for foreclosure help. But those first calls were people ‘just fishing,’ looking for money to catch up on their mortgage instead of help fixing their loan or counseling, Hauger said.”

“Some looking for help were investors who had more than one property in foreclosure but still believed if the market came back in a few months they could sell for a profit. ‘When people found out we didn’t have the cash to catch them up on their mortgage payments, they didn’t call back or come in,’ Hauger said.”

“By March, complaints about bad loans flooded into regulators. ‘Some people felt entitled that they should be able to buy even if they didn’t have the income,’ Hauger said. ‘We saw people getting ‘no doc’ (no documentation) loans showing they had income that wasn’t there. That’s fraud, and those loans are bad and can’t be fixed.’”

“Hauger’s agency worked with a man from California who was being transferred to Phoenix and wanted to buy a home. He couldn’t afford it with his Arizona income, Hauger said. But a mortgage firm used his California income to work the deal.”

“‘That’s when we began to see what the housing market was in for,’ she said.”

The East Valley Tribune from Arizona. “The Valley’s most expensive rental community is getting pricier. In March, Tempe’s Grigio apartment development will open up six luxury suites with monthly rents ranging from $5,500 to $6,500.”

“Grigio, which opened in early 2007, meshes together the concepts of rentals, condominiums, time shares and resorts, said Mike Clow, senior VP of project builder Gray Development Group.”

“The big question is whether there is enough demand for rental units that have such a high monthly rent, local apartment market analyst Bob Kammrath said. ‘At that price, you could buy yourself a pretty high-end condo and still have a pretty good view,’ he said.”

“Grigio and other Valley apartment complexes will face competition from frustrated home sellers who are renting out their places until the market recovers, he said. Local experts have estimated that there could be thousands of single-family homes for rent across the Valley.”

“The short-lived fad of converting apartments to condos has also created more competition, as failed projects revert to rentals.”

“‘That’s been a real drag on the apartment market on all levels,’ Kammrath said. A person can rent a home with the same square footage and a pool in a gated community for far less, he added.”

The Whittier Daily News on Arizona. “The widow of a former mayor claims she was taken for more than $600,000 by a development company co-owned by a former police chief. In a Dec. 12 letter to the Orange County district attorney, Joanne Lopez alleges The Hoover Companies ‘criminally mismanaged and stole’ retirement savings she invested in Arizona housing developments in 2005.”

“Lopez said she asked for the return of her funds after the first investment note was due this past June. She said Brad Hoover told her the company was having problems.”

“Lopez said she gave the Hoovers a total of $660,000 to put into two proposed residential and one commercial development around the Arizona desert community of Fort Mohave. ‘He told me they were having trouble getting loans and I said, ‘Brad, you are starting to scare me,’ Joanne Lopez said. ‘Someone has to look into whether there has been fraud, or just bad luck.’”

“Hoover investors include prominent names in Whittier and law enforcement, including Steve Simonian, former chief of the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Bureau of Investigation; David Carlisle, former Whittier police lieutenant who now heads USC’s department of public safety; and former Assemblyman Frank Hill.”

“Kirk Linklater, another Hoover investor, said he put a total of $80,000 into the Mariposa development and El Rio, a country club and residential project the Hoovers were building nearby.”

“‘My three-year note was due in June, and I haven’t sent in a letter requesting my investment plus my 4 percent return,’ said Linklater, a Whittier resident and former contractor who now works as a building inspector for the city of Los Angeles. ‘I have heard from other investors that have received letters back (from the Hoovers) saying that at this point they don’t have the money.’”

“While he acknowledged the real estate market has taken a turn for the worst, Linklater questioned management of the El Rio development.”

“‘It took them forever to build the clubhouse, engineering has been an issue and there is a lot more that should have been completed,’ said Linklater, adding that years after he invested in the project there are only a few model homes on the site.”

“‘They have a ton of money sitting in that raw land that is still empty,’ Linklater said.”

The Las Vegas Sun from Nevada. “About this time two years ago, real estate agent Ben Correa was laying out his finest semiformal attire for his office’s lavish holiday party, held in one of the grand ballrooms at the Wynn Las Vegas.”

“This year, his boss threw an office potluck.”

“If mortgage and real estate professionals needed one more reminder of their dismal 2007, they’ve found it in the chips and dip-filled holiday parties that have replaced the posh blowouts of past years.”

“‘It’s drastically different from other times in the market,’ Correa said.”

“‘This time last year I had no friends who were unemployed, and this year I don’t have enough fingers and toes now to count all of my colleagues who are unemployed,’ said Stephanie Prather, president of the local chapter of the National Association of Professional Mortgage Women.”

“‘Most companies last year were telling people to invite every past customer and client, and bring all their family members, bring anybody,’ Prather said. ‘They would buy everyone gift cards and all kinds of goodies. This year is definitely toned down. They can’t turn off the power, so these extravaganzas are the easiest things to cut.’”

“At Countrywide, the largest mortgage lender in Nevada and in the country, the holiday season has been particularly tough, its workers say. One office replaced a party at Del Frisco’s Double Eagle Steak House with an office potluck, and workers at other offices say they’re not sure they’re having parties at all.”

“‘It’s definitely not like what it used to be,’ said one Countrywide worker who did not wish to be identified. ‘People understand that the budget is tight. And some people could care less about a Christmas party; they’re just happy that the office is going to close early.’”

“D.J. Kopple, an assistant general manager of Hamada of Japan, said she’s seeing fewer groups, but the ones that are coming are spending more money than before and are more likely to allow an open bar.”

“‘Perhaps they want to keep the morale up,’ Kopple said. ‘It’s a lot easier and cheaper to do a Christmas party than give out Christmas bonuses, and this way people still get something, at least.’”




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45 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-12-24 10:09:07

Here’s one for Catherine, who saw it coming:

‘Feeling the pinch from a poorly performing housing and construction industry, the Town of Chino Valley, like other Arizona municipalities, has imposed a temporary hiring freeze on all of its departments.’

‘Since September, the town has kept a keen eye on its fiscal year 2007-08 budget because of a 4 percent decline in its most recent revenue projections, highlighted by flat numbers in sales tax, construction sales tax and building permits.’

“Due to the slowdown in the housing industry in general, and specifically the construction industry, our revenues are off somewhat,” Development Services Department Director Jerry Stricklin said. “That has led to the hiring freeze and a general review of all expenditures. We’re evaluating it and re-evaluating it every month.”

Comment by charliebrown
2007-12-24 10:21:13

Ben,

How do you see this playing out with Municipalities, Consumers, and Business all needing capital injections all at the same time? What do you see the banking system mortgaging next or are we about to go through the mother of all collective bankruptcies?

Comment by Ben Jones
2007-12-24 10:39:35

There may be further drop in muni bonds, IMO, but in Texas we didn’t have cities fail in the 80’s. They just have to pull back. These groups live pretty fat, and they will complain all day, but making do with less is not impossible.

The hard part in all this; purging malinvestments in housing and reorganizing the economy toward something other than selling each other houses. The sooner we get started the sooner we get there.

Comment by cayo_ron
2007-12-24 14:17:13

You mean like reclaiming all of the jobs we’ve handed off to India, China, and Mexico?

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Comment by beebs
2007-12-24 21:48:40

You mean like reclaiming all of the jobs we’ve handed off to India, China, and Mexico?

Those jobs offshored will never come back.

 
Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-12-25 00:23:15

Good luck with that. Once the factories leave, they aren’t coming back. Just ask folks in Pittsburg and Cleveland.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2007-12-24 10:31:59


“‘It’s drastically different from other times in the market,’ Correa said.”

The chorus changed from: It Is Different This Time. Many variations on the same theme.

Jas

 
Comment by Flatlander
2007-12-24 10:41:44

“Bruce Fraser, an agent with RE/MAX 2000 in Gilbert, said Sunday the company held its Christmas party about two weeks ago, and there were no signs the broker was in trouble. ‘I did not see this coming,’ he said.”

Your company’s sales are down 50% (his own personal commissions are probably down a ton) and costs remain the same . . . how can you NOT see this coming. What a loser. What piss-poor managers these people must be, they can’t make day-to-day adjustments when times get a little tough, then all of a sudden shut the whole thing down?? Too much of their own kool-aid I suspect.

Fraser has left the building.

Comment by BottomFisher
2007-12-24 10:49:10

Here comes Santa Claus, here comes Santa Claus,
Right down Re/Max 2000 lane
Vixen and Blitzen and all his used house salesmen
Pullin’ on the reins

 
Comment by wmbz
2007-12-24 12:11:42

“Bruce Fraser, an agent with RE/MAX 2000 in Gilbert, said Sunday the company held its Christmas party about two weeks ago, and there were no signs the broker was in trouble.

So what the hell did they talk about at the party?

Comment by Leighsong
2007-12-24 12:26:46

Ya know, it’s the flat out lies that jerks my last nerve!

No way, just no way. Two weeks ago everything is peachy and then poof?

Liar, liar, pants on fire Mr. Fraser!

I’m sassy today - cooking some good food!
Leigh

Comment by AnonyRuss
2007-12-25 01:06:20

Show some respect. You are talking about Bruce “The Moose” Fraser.

https://realtytimes.com/rtmcrcond5/Arizona~Phoenix~brucefraser

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Comment by NeilT
2007-12-24 12:36:24

They talked about how the housing market was going to bounce back to bubblicious heights in the Spring of 2008.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2007-12-24 16:30:57

My thoughts exactly. You would have to be blind, drunk, or both not to see this coming from a mile away. What, exactly, did everyone talk about at the Christmas party?

Comment by Eggman
2007-12-24 18:53:00

I suspect they don’t talk about it, because they don’t want to admit it to themselves or each other. Yun wouldn’t like that.

 
 
 
Comment by Flatlander
2007-12-24 10:48:09

“As for the timing of the closing, attorney Dax Watson said, ‘We felt it wouldn’t be fair to our clients to wait.’”

And besides that, how many chances do you get to drop a HUGE lump of coal in that many employees’ stockings right before Christmas.

Comment by Flatlander
2007-12-24 11:12:40

Another Grinchy tale:

NEW YORK - MAXjet Airways ceased operations today — leaving jets on tarmacs and stranding passengers on Christmas Eve — as the all-business class airline filed for bankruptcy protection.

 
Comment by Timmy Boy
2007-12-24 11:29:19

Hey… coal futures are actually UP!!

Don’t knock coal… a stocking full is worth more than some bubble-area houses.

TB

Comment by Earl The Vagabond
2007-12-25 10:15:54

That amount of coal will not bail the FBs out. However, the house should kick off enough BTUs to keep them warm for a day or two..

 
 
 
Comment by Curt
2007-12-24 10:53:34

“As for the timing of the closing, attorney Dax Watson said, ‘We felt it wouldn’t be fair to our clients to wait.’”

What clients??????

Comment by Gatorfan
2007-12-24 11:18:50

The hundreds (if not thousands) of sellers that had their homes listed by the brokerage only to have their properties languish indefinitely on the market. Now, all the hapless sellers can move their listings to another broker where they will once again languish.

Heck, this is actually not a bad thing though for the Realtors®. At least it will appear like homes in the Phoenix area actually spent less time on the market now that all the RE/MAX listing will be given new MLS numbers.

How soon until the Realtors® in the area start advertising that the average days on the market is dropping significantly — a statistic that clearly shows the market has hit bottom?

 
Comment by KenWPA
2007-12-24 20:39:17

I haven’t watched the movie in a few years, but doesn’t this quote remind you a bit of none other than Judge Smales from Caddyshack?

Again bad quote, but the general idea.

Judge Smales “I have sentenced people younger than you to the electric chair. I didn’t want to, but I felt that I owed it to them.”

Comment by goedeck
2007-12-25 19:25:48

I thought you were going to quote the judge:
“Well, the world needs ditchdiggers, too!”

 
 
 
Comment by joe momma
2007-12-24 11:06:38

Buying real estate is really a bet our government is going to debase our currency. It’s really not that housing has gone up as much as the value of the dollar has been decimated. The dollar buys less of everything today, and this has been caused by reckless government behavior. I spent some time researching which admin’s are mainly responsible for this and the two worst were Reagan and Chimp. The best in the last 40 years was Clinton. Here’s a sample:

Up until 2001 84% of the National Debt was created during Republican administrations. That was when the debt was $3.8 Trillion. I think it is $9 Trillion today. Basically over 90% of our debt comes from reckless GOP administrations. Reagan spent like a drunken sailor. Bush Sr. did too. And Chimp has made both look like Conservatives!

One thing that I find interesting is that real estate dropped here in Southern California in the early 90’s, right around when Clinton was elected. The reason was that defense/aerospace had serious budget cuts, and they were big industrials here at the time. But this really was a decision to shore up the budget by Clinton. In doing so real estate prices dropped. But it was fiscal responsibility that led to a strong dollar, equating to low house prices, 99 cent gas (in 2000), etc.

So if you think we will elect a Republican president in 2008 you might want to buy a house when prices turn up again shortly. If you think we’ll elect a Democrat, prices have a long way to go down, assuming we will return to fiscal responsibility. If Clinton is elected you can count on that. No reason to think they won’t do the same thing again. This should prop up the dollar and thus make real estate even cheaper. Gas should start to drop as well, as the dollar rebounds.

In any case, it all comes down to the value of the dollar and reckless government fiscal policy.

Don’t take my word for it. Look it up.

http://pla.blogspot.com/2003_03_02_pla_archive.html#90007514

Merry Christmas everyone.

Comment by 01/20/2009 end of an error
2007-12-24 18:59:37

I wish people would quit insulting chimps they are intellegent creatures with feelings. Bush is a stupid idiot who only cares about the top 1%. Otherwise pretty much agree with you.

Comment by reuven
2007-12-25 00:59:53

I can assure you that Bush does NOT care about the top 1%.

He seems to care about the bottom 50% (the non-taxpaying class) that got him elected, and a smattering of select individuals within the top 1%, esp. those in the Banking, Oil, and Military Contractor industry.

 
 
Comment by bill in Maryland
2007-12-25 07:27:16

nice story. But why didn’t you mention the false economy of dot bombs? Lots of people attribute the great stock market of the 1990s to Clinton, when most of the gains were to internet companies that had no earnings? It was a house of cards economy, just like the chimp’s current economy.

The other thing I could not stand about Clinton was his narcissism. He had an arrogant attitude and an ever present smug look. That’s no better than a Bible thumping conservative who talks the talk of Capitalism but walks the walk of socialism. Socialism is built into the Democratic Party platform.

Vote For Ron Paul. If he does not get nominated VOTE LIBERTARIAN in November!!!

 
 
Comment by Timmy Boy
2007-12-24 11:27:45

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071224/real_estate_foreign_buyers.html

Well… it’s official… the housing bust will be here in 2008.

Throughout every RE bust in history.. the LAST buyers into the bubble were FOREIGNERS… & they always took the biggest hit.

See ya at the bottom!!

Timmy B.

Comment by Gatorfan
2007-12-24 11:51:02

Articles like this couldn’t be any more silly. The article state, “Miami in particular is a magnet for buyers from throughout Latin America and Europe, helping to mitigate the fallout from the area’s housing slump.”

Well, let’s look at how Miami’s market is doing:

There are currently nearly 2.4 million people living in Miami-Dade County. In November 2007, only 738 total units were sold– that’s 738 homes and condos for all 2.4 million people.

This happened at a time when there are over 41,000 units on sale in Miami. It happened at at a time when the dollar is at historic lows. It happened at a time when it is peak selling season in Miami, right as winter is approaching.

Where the heck are all these foreign investors?

It’s simply laughable that AP is printing stories like this about Miami when they only sold 738 units last month.

Comment by snake charmer
2007-12-24 16:35:49

I have lived in or visited eleven countries in Latin America. I am quite comfortable in saying that both the number of wealthy Latin Americans and their desire to own property in the United States are grossly exaggerated.

Comment by RoundSparrow
2007-12-24 18:40:13

I lived 12 months in Chile (2004-2005) and I can also comment that it is nearly impossible for them to come visit here, let alone settle. The USA is not handing out visas.

Chile is one of the wealthy countries, loves the USA (but maybe not so much Bush anymore), and would WANT to come here.

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Comment by dennis
2007-12-25 18:59:33

Well if you don’t like Dade County ,Florida, try Orange County Calif. where Asians and Indians are buying the hell out of properties. In RE didn’t someone say it is location location location!!!

 
 
 
Comment by Blacque Jacques Shellacque
2007-12-24 11:29:39

But Fraser said he had already received about a dozen calls Sunday from other brokers looking to hire him.

And who exactly are these “other brokers”?

Comment by BottomFisher
2007-12-24 11:42:33

Oh probably Mc Donalds, Jack in the box, car wash, etc.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-12-24 11:49:53

Given Brucie’s cluelessness about the state of the housing market, I can easily see him becoming the NAR’s next spokesman.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-12-24 11:47:49

“Bruce Fraser, an agent with RE/MAX 2000 in Gilbert, said Sunday the company held its Christmas party about two weeks ago, and there were no signs the broker was in trouble. ‘I did not see this coming,’ he said.”

How clueless was this clown not to see the slowdown? And how much of the RE/MAX 2000 office’s downfall can be attributed to its realtors foolish acceptance of wish-price listings from greedhead sellers still stuck in 2005, instead of realistic prices for THIS market? If they would’ve refused to take listings that weren’t priced to sell, chances are they’d still be afloat.

I have no sympathy. Survival of the fittest is just what the RE industry needs.

Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-12-25 00:39:13

The sooner prices return to sanity, the sooner sales will pick up. The realtors denial is costing them their jobs

 
 
Comment by Neil
2007-12-24 12:37:24

“‘Perhaps they want to keep the morale up,’ Kopple said. ‘It’s a lot easier and cheaper to do a Christmas party than give out Christmas bonuses, and this way people still get something, at least.’”

Ok, I realize the above is from the Japanese hotel catering group… but think about this. Bonuses are down and here in the US and so are the scale of the Christmas parties. That says something!

Hey… our Christmas party this year was a little nicer than last year (they added a roast beef station at the end of the buffet and a coffee bar…). Things must be looking up! ;)

Were any pink slips sent out at Christmas parties? Some of my fellow engineers did that in the 1990’s and were never forgiven. :( (We bit of a social no-no.)

Got popcorn?
Neil

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2007-12-24 13:12:00

Neil,
Are you an EE?

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2007-12-24 13:15:49

s/b “a”, not “an”- to much cheer.

 
 
 
Comment by talon
2007-12-24 12:40:31

“The Valley’s most expensive rental community is getting pricier. In March, Tempe’s Grigio apartment development will open up six luxury suites with monthly rents ranging from $5,500 to $6,500.”

I drove by Grigio on the 202 last night around 10 PM. ALL of the windows were dark—absolutely every one of them. The only lights visible were those in the hallways. Grigio is a high end apartment building with hotel service such as concierge, room service, turn-down service, etc. etc. geared to executives. The smallest apartments rent for around $1200 (think 500 sf studio) and go up from there. It does have a very nice view of the mountains to the north, but not nice enough to warrant those kinds of rents.

Comment by SaladSD
2007-12-25 00:28:52

Grigio = West Egg.

 
 
Comment by NeilT
2007-12-24 12:51:51

“Sales slowed and listings climbed across the Valley, but prices hadn’t yet slipped much from the speculator-spurred run-up of 2004-05. Many sellers were still holding out for those inflated prices and the hope that the market would rebound in early 2007.”
(I think they meant early 2008).

How can anybody with a normal IQ believe that the market will just bounce back if the sellers and buyers just hold back until it rebounds”? There is some contradiction here.
The housing market rebound is not a mathematical certianty. There is no magic. The sellers can hold their breath till they are blue in the face and not see much positive change. The only way housing can rebound is when the sellers lower prices enough to attract buyers. If buyers get interested AND if prevailing wages can justify the sellers’ wishing prices, then there may be reason to hope. As things stand now, without the availability of suicidal loans, housing prices have only one way to go. Down. It makes no ecnomic sense for the majority of sellers to wait in hope. Their carrying costs burn a hole in their pockets. So they are going to be worse off with every passing day of no sale.

Comment by reuven
2007-12-25 00:55:38

There will be no bounceback any time soon. The *only* reason prices got so high was that banks were giving mortgages to people who couldn’t afford to pay them back.

And why were they doing this? Because house prices were rising, so they could always sell the houses at a profit of the “buyer” couldn’t pay.

Of course, this was a circular-logic Ponzi scheme. Prices got higher because the banks were giving money to people, which was making prices higher.

And it got to a point where the only people financing houses were stupid people with NO assets who prentented not to know about “teaser rates” or what an “adjustable mortgage” was. Anyone with some savings wouldn’t have taken the risk!

It took a couple of years before the supply of greedy suckers was exhausted. And there’s no way this will repeat itself until another generation comes buy.

House prices, once they finish dropping to about 3x median income, could easily stay flat for 20 years.

 
 
Comment by Blacque Jacques Shellacque
2007-12-24 14:51:27

It makes no ecnomic sense for the majority of sellers to wait in hope. Their carrying costs burn a hole in their pockets. So they are going to be worse off with every passing day of no sale.

Thankfully, that’s nobody’s problem but their own.

Now if only the other effects could be confined to them also…

 
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