December 30, 2007

Buyers Are The Ones That Are Driving This Train

The Gazette Times reports from Oregon. “For years in Corvallis, the housing market was booming, with new construction in subdivisions such as Timberhill and Willamette Landing keeping developers and real estate agents busy. New housing permits were down 60 percent this year compared to 2006 and — thanks to tighter lending policies and a generally slower housing market — homes ranging from $300,000 to $500,000 make up 75 percent of what’s available to homebuyers in town.”

“At the upper range of the residential real estate market, a few sellers have even started to slash prices, a move unheard of in Corvallis just a few months ago. In high-end homes priced at more than $500,000, real estate agents now have a 14-month supply.”

“‘For the most part, you’re looking at home buyers who are seeing wild swings in the market and they’re sitting on the sidelines right now,’ said Mike Goodrich, who runs Legend Homes’ Corvallis office.”

The Bend Bulletin from Oregon. “After nearly a quarter of a century without a serious downturn, history finally caught up with the Central Oregon housing market in 2007. Swooning like an oxygen-starved sprinter at the end of a too-long run, the region’s residential real estate market struggled by nearly every measure throughout the year.”

“High sales prices were cold comfort to would-be home sellers who found it difficult to move their homes at any price.”

“Bend started the year with more than 1,100 unsold homes on the market, according to MLS data reported by Bratton Appraisal Group’s Mike Caba. That number quickly soared to more than 1,600 by June as speculators and other homeowners tried to sell at the same time.”

“The number of listings gradually shrank to around 1,300 by early this month, as some homes sold and some would-be sellers opted to pull their homes off the market to wait for another season.”

“Still, at the year’s average monthly sales rate, it would take more than a year to sell off even that reduced year-end inventory level.”

“The region’s other local markets had similar stories to tell in 2007. More than 572 unsold homes on urban lots were on the market in Redmond by the middle of December, according to Caba’s numbers — a 13-month supply at the year’s average sales rates.”

“Sales in La Pine were off 52 percent from 2006 through the third quarter, according to the Central Oregon Association of Realtors. The same was true in Jefferson County. In Crook County, sales numbers slipped by more than 46 percent.”

“The chill in local home sales, which actually started in summer 2006, found its roots in a number of factors, including the virtual disappearance of speculators and investors. Mortgage defaults in Deschutes County rose to their highest level in more than 10 years, with more than 560 mortgages falling far enough into arrears to enter the first stages of foreclosure by Dec. 20, according to county records.”

“Buena Vista Custom Homes, who moved into the Bend market in early 2006, tried to pull out with an auction of 29 empty homes in its inaugural northeast Bend subdivision in mid-December, but the auction was a bust. Not a single Bend home moved at a price that Buena Vista President Roger Pollock would accept.”

“In the long term, said Mark Kramer, general manager of the region’s largest custom cabinetmaker, optimism still reigns.”

“‘No one expected it to continue at the pace it was going at,’ Kramer said, ‘But the thing about Central Oregon is, it’s still a great place to be, and everybody I talk to still feels comfortable about making an investment in a home here. Maybe there’s going to be a little bit of a lull in the market, but nobody feels there is going to be a decline in the long term.’”

“The remodeling market remains relatively strong despite — and in some ways, because of — the downturn in production home building, said Pacwest Homes’ director of sales, Gary May. That’s partly…because the price of labor and materials has plunged since the general housing market cooled down.”

“The price of framing, for example, has plunged from $20 to $25 per foot at the peak of the labor-short housing boom to around $10 to $11 per foot now, May said. Some materials, like concrete and tile, have retained the prices they hit at the peak of the boom, but others, like framing timber and cedar, have come down.”

“Pacwest laid off its in-house tile setters and drywallers at the beginning of the year, reacting, along with most home builders, to the slide in new-home construction, May said. But it has kept its project managers, finish crews and painters working, and it’s hiring subcontractors to fill in the gaps as work comes in.”

“Which is apparently keeping at least some of them working, despite the drawdown in new- home construction, albeit at lower prices.”

“‘Our subs provide great service to us, especially now that they are a little slower as well,’ May said. ‘They jump through hoops for us. And if it means the difference between working for a couple of weeks or being idle for a couple of weeks, for the sake of a couple of hundred dollars in price, we’re finding that the subs are being a little more flexible in that. So, at the end of the day, it’s the consumer who wins.’”

The Olympian from Washington. “About 2,000 homeowners in Thurston County are trying to sell their homes, according to the Northwest MLS, and it’s taking longer than many had expected.”

“Price reductions have become commonplace to stimulate sales, but it doesn’t stop there, real estate agent Eric Hjelm said.”

“Two summers ago, all most sellers had to do was put a ‘For Sale’ sign in their yard and ’start packing,’ Hjelm said. Today, the seller has a ‘laundry list’ of things to consider before marketing a home, he said.”

“Homeowner Frank Burnham of Olympia, a Hjelm client, has been putting his list to work. It includes installing new carpets, painting and making sure his 2,400-square-foot house is clean and uncluttered before it is put on the market. Burnham had planned to ask $350,000 for his house, but has lowered the price to about $329,000.

“‘Buyers are the ones that are driving this train,’ Burnham said about the current housing market.”

“Burnham, who has taken a job in Astoria, Ore., is willing to wait until the end of year to sell his house. If it doesn’t sell, he plans to turn it into a rental, even though that probably won’t cover his mortgage payments.”

“‘Some sellers are overreaching on price, but those who expect something more reasonable are selling their homes,’ said broker Ken Anderson.”

“Dan Presley of Olympia, who invests in property with a partner, has been trying to sell a 2,000-square-foot house in Lacey for about six months. After working with a real estate agent, they decided to try to sell the house themselves. They have dropped the price several times from $284,000 to $259,900, Presley said.”

“‘A year ago (the house) would have received three or four full-price offers,’ he said.”

“But with so many homes to choose from, the house has received only a couple of nibbles, Presley said. ‘It will pick back up,’ he said about the housing market. ‘It’s just kind of slowing down, and you have to roll with it.’”

“Patti Furu of Tumwater did just about all she could to sell her 1,800-square-foot house. Furu painted it, staged it, upgraded the kitchen, held open houses for nine weeks and dropped the price $20,000. After 10 weeks, Furu finally sold her house last month for about $274,000.”

“‘People are just waiting for an amazing deal,’ she said.”

“When staging and painting didn’t work, Furu began to offer an unusual incentive to buyers: free baked cookies once a month for the first year. ‘It was something to separate myself from the pack,’ she said.’”

“Today, Furu is living in a 1,300-square-foot duplex on a month-to-month lease. After working hard to sell her home, she is now going to take her time looking for the next house to buy.”

“‘I’m waiting to see what the market does,’ she said.”

The News Tribune from Washington. “This was the year Tacoma said goodbye to gonzo development. Goodbye to weekly near-weekly announcements of condo projects. Goodbye to big plans to rescue historic landmarks and goodbye to ambitious schemes for blocks-long mixed-use developments.”

“‘I think the market is taking a breather,’ said Tacoma real estate consultant J.J. McCament. ‘And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.’”

“Give credit – or blame, if you will – to a national cinching up of credit standards that washed over even a relatively strong Puget Sound-area market. And credit, too, a growing unsold inventory of high-end and midmarket condos that it will take the market months to absorb.”

“On the Foss’ east side north of the 11th Street Bridge, developer Mike Cohen earlier this year abandoned plans to build the Crosswater condo project and sold the land. At Tacoma’s Old City Hall, developers abandoned a plan for luxury condominiums. The building is now being renovated into class A office space.”

“At the old Spring Air mattress factory site, North Carolina developer Landmark Group has switched gears. Now Landmark is planning a two-phase, 300-unit apartment project for the former factory site instead of an affordably priced condo project.”

“Landmark executive Jim Sari said the group adjusted its plans after taking a second look at the Tacoma market. Sari maintains that bankers, burned by some markets where prices have collapsed, are unfairly applying tougher standards to the Puget Sound market. ‘Bankers are basically herd animals,’ he said. ‘Where one goes, the others follow.’”

“Even with the slowdowns and changes to apartments, there was ample choice of condos in Tacoma, especially in downtown or nearby areas.”

“‘There were about 3,700 units on the table when I did the analysis last spring,’ said real estate consultant McCament. ‘Now that’s down 3,500.’”

The Seattle Times. “Three Decembers ago, Vulcan Real Estate erected a tent in Seattle’s long-unfashionable South Lake Union neighborhood and invited the public to see plans for 2200, a luxury condominium project to be built there. Within days, 2200 was nearly sold out.”

“So Paul Kelly, the owner of a 17th-floor unit in 2200, should be sitting on top of the world. But it didn’t quite work out that way.”

“What looked like a surefire winner — homeownership in Seattle — has taken on a tinge of uncertainty. Trying since September, Kelly has been unable to sell his one-bedroom unit with its unobstructed view. Hardly anyone has come to see it, he says.”

“As thousands of other sellers have also found out, the Seattle area’s formerly stellar real-estate market has finally, slowly joined in the national downturn.”

“It could be good news for buyers. Negligible price increases, rather than being bad news, could actually be good by allowing wages time to catch up. That, however, is probably not what owners want to hear. But Sam Pace, an agent with Bellevue’s Executive Real Estate, says it’s realistic.”

“‘We’ve had double-digit appreciation for years in a row, and if you think you can’t handle a little bit of a dip, you have a pretty special view of what your return should be,’ Pace says.”

“So the word for next year is patience. That’s the approach Paul Kelly, the condominium owner, is taking.”

“Although he’d like to sell it now (and has reduced his price from $624,000 to $599,000 for buyers who purchase directly from him), he says that realistically it may be spring before he lists it again with a real-estate company.”

“‘I think things should hopefully settle down by then; that’s my plan anyway,’ Kelly says. ‘I know my buyer is out there. They just have to come see it.’”




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76 Comments »

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-12-30 10:08:53

‘Bankers are basically herd animals,’ he said. ‘Where one goes, the others follow.’

More pouting: “Mommie, ______ won’t play with me!”

Comment by david cee
2007-12-30 11:28:20

Lies, Damn Lies and Government Statistics
“Census Bureau states “it does not have sufficient statistical evidence to conclude that the actual change is different from zero.”"

…..In other words, the monthly data is not meaningful…..

New Home Sales are a measure of contract signings, and do not reflect canceled contracts. Actual numbers are likely lower, as cancellation rates have been running as high as 40%.
these reported prices don’t reflect the REAL price, as homebuilder incentives and giveaways do not show in this data. Builders have been throwing in free granite counter tops, high end appliances, swimming pools, even cars as incentives.

The inventory estimates of new houses for sale at the end of November decreased 1.8% to 505,000 — but because sales dropped even faster, inventory of unsold homes jumped to 9.3

The monthly drop of 9.0% is below the Census Bureau’s ±13.9%* confidence interval.
When the reported data point includes zero (as it does in this instance), then the Census Bureau states “it does not have sufficient statistical evidence to conclude that the actual change is different from zero.”
…..In other words, the monthly data is not meaningful…..

As to the year-over-year change of 34.4%, the confidence interval of ±7.9% does not include zero. Therefore (in Census Bureau lingo), there is sufficient statistical evidence to conclude that an actual change occurred

I would hope that in the new year 2008, this Blog will challange all
numbers from all sources, even bloggers themselves, in reporting median prices. Let them main stream media hype the headlines of median up and down, we must do a better job than just using these numbers to determine value

Comment by dennis
2007-12-30 12:40:32

I would hope that in the new year 2008, this Blog will challange all
numbers from all sources, even bloggers themselves, in reporting median prices. Let them main stream media hype the headlines of median up and down, we must do a better job than just using these numbers to determine value

I AGREE!! The real sales price should be available in any county. Records do not lie! And I am getting tired of all of the builder incentives. No potential home buyer should pay a higher price as the builder incentive is inflated by the cost vs sell price and property tax is paid on the recorded purchase price which affects comps and all property owners.

 
Comment by Annata
2007-12-30 14:31:00

At least they give you confidence intervals. You’ll never catch the NAR tell you their margin of error.

I wish schools would stress the importance of margin of error. Every person, when confronted with a number, should immediately ask about the margin of error. If the margin of error is not given, the number should be treated in the same manner you would treat someone’s favorite color. This is one of the most basic ways for people to call BS.

 
 
Comment by SoBay
2007-12-30 11:39:23

the Tacoma market. Sari maintains that bankers,
- burned by some markets where prices have collapsed,
- are unfairly applying tougher standards to the Puget Sound market.

These looosers remind me of the people that deny that the Holocust ever happened.
Yes, it is different in the pacific northwest - people are much slower on the ‘up take’ and it could be the mold spores from all the rain that they get.

 
 
Comment by Tyrone
2007-12-30 10:14:35

People are just waiting for an amazing deal,’ she said.

Amazing deals? No; as sanity returns, people are simply looking for PRACTICAL, AFFORDABLE, REASONABLE, and REALISITIC deals.

Comment by NeilT
2007-12-30 10:16:56

“‘People are just waiting for an amazing deal,’ she said.”

“Today, Furu is living in a 1,300-square-foot duplex on a month-to-month lease. After working hard to sell her home, she is now going to take her time looking for the next house to buy.”
“‘I’m waiting to see what the market does,’ she said.”

So it is OK for Furu to wait for an ‘amazing deal’ before she buys. But when her buyers wanted the same deal, she isn’t happy!

Comment by Houstonstan
2007-12-30 10:48:07

What about her brilliant plan to distinguish herself from the rest of the pack…..Drum roll… BAKE COOKIES FOR THE BUYER ONCE PER MONTH.

Oh that will have them queing up at the door. Well she is certainly distinguishing herself by demonstrating she is even more clueless that than main body of FBs.

Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 11:13:35

Maybe her cookies are to die for ;)

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Comment by Jay_Huhman
2007-12-30 11:38:02

Hey, she sold for 274K!

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-12-30 12:46:23

Now, people, aren’t we forgetting something here? Something that gives off a wonderful aroma when it’s in the ove? As in…

…cupcakes?

I mean, come on. We had SO much fun with the cupcake jokes a few months ago. Time to bring them back!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-12-30 12:47:11

Oops. I meant to say “in the OVEN.”

My bad.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by NeilT
2007-12-30 10:25:18

“Burnham, who has taken a job in Astoria, Ore., is willing to wait until the end of year to sell his house. If it doesn’t sell, he plans to turn it into a rental, even though that probably won’t cover his mortgage payments.”

This tactic appears to be a favorite of a lot of sellers. Try the wishing price, wait for a while, lower by a few %, threaten to take the house away and put it in the rental market. What they don’t realize is that there are not hordes of renters that are currently homeless.
It will actually be a good thing if sellers take their property off the listing. Let the RE activity level freeze. Let the parasitic agents of the RE industry perish. Let the financial innovators find something else to blow a new bubble. And, let housing again be a necessity for living & not a pseudo-investment.

Comment by Blacque Jacques Shellacque
2007-12-30 11:15:42

…take the house away and put it in the rental market.

I wonder how much he’s gonna charge for rent…..

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-12-30 12:49:40

Putting it on the rental market is no panacea. Anyone ever had the pleasure of screening prospective tenants? Or enjoyed the thrill of rebuilding a rental after those seemingly wonderful tenants trashed the place? Or heard yet another excuse about why the rent check is late, but it will be in your hands in just a couple of days?

I could go on, but I think you get my drift…

Comment by Dan (from SoFla)
2007-12-31 00:46:18

A lot of ARM’abled owners can rent their places for a year or two, as long as their payments are low. It’s not extremely important if those payments are over or under the rental amounts. They believe they can ride out the crisis and then recoup their investment after a couple of years when “the market reverses upward”.

Of course, if it doesn’t reverse itself …

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-12-30 10:28:40

599K for a one bedroom condo.

I must be on another planet.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2007-12-30 10:39:55

“Kelly has been unable to sell his one-bedroom unit with its unobstructed view.” …“Although he’d like to sell it now (and has reduced his price from $624,000 to $599,000 ”

As Inspector Gadget would say: Wowsers! ;-)

Comment by tuxedo_junction
2007-12-30 11:13:25

He doesn’t understand why it doesn’t sell. After all, he dropped the asking price a whopping 4%.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-12-30 11:32:08

Talk about behind the curve. It went down that much while they were changing the listing. Of course, if the place rents north of $5000, $599K could work. Somehow I don’t think the implied rental value exceeds the price of a luxury hotel. If he lowers 4% a week, I calculate he can meet fair market value by the summertime.

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Comment by Tyrone
2007-12-30 12:45:19

I’d like to know why he purchased the property in the first place. Did he buy it to live in, or was it simply greedy speculation? It’s probably the latter.

 
Comment by uptown
2007-12-30 15:18:37

Doesn’t have a water view, something my $900 apartment has. I’m about a mile NW of him.

 
 
Comment by jerry from richardson
2007-12-30 10:48:53

With taxes and HOA, that comes out to $4200/mo for a one bedroom apartment on a 6.5% 30yr fixed mortgage.

Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 11:15:59

$599k? is this Manhattan?

 
 
Comment by Blacque Jacques Shellacque
2007-12-30 11:19:38

Sounds very Silicon Valley-ish.

Some guy I used to work with bought a townhome a block over from my apartment complex for over $400K. At that time (a couple of years ago), I couldn’t believe someone was crazy enough to spend that kind of money on that kind of dwelling.

 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-12-30 11:40:19

Even your little Mr. Ride-’em-Cowboy down at Lake Travis would blush over that pricing.

Comment by txchick57
2007-12-30 12:22:43

Hey, he’s broken the plane and is in the end zone:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/rfs/522936430.html

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-12-30 12:29:42

100 down, at least another 100 to go.

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Comment by vozworth
2007-12-30 12:38:06

oh boy, I have not had such laughs reading the HBB in quite some time.

what a treat.

Headline:
Cowboy Up! Caught With Pants Down!

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Comment by SDGreg
2007-12-30 12:38:47

$445/month HOA - yikes!

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Comment by bicoastal
2007-12-30 15:13:52

Right you are. You are on the planet Vulcan. Vulcan Real Estate is a Paul Allen subsidiary, named after his hero, Mr. Spock. My husband wasted vast amounts of time consulting for Paul Allen on what was supposed to be a world-class science museum in Seattle. At the last possible moment, Allen shifted gears and decided to build… a science-fiction museum. He is my nominee for World’s Richest Idiot.

“599K for a one bedroom condo.

I must be on another planet.”

Comment by bob
2007-12-30 16:53:01

2200 was/is hot-stuff for the trend-oids.

Wholefoods on the first floor. Access to Hotel facitilies in the complex etc

I would never pay for this … but there might be folks that find it worthwhile. What i cant understand is the next 20 codo buildings - why do people overpay for those

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-12-30 10:32:42

Speaking of amazing deals…maybe we’re a baby step closer:

New construction: $199,299
4 Bed, 2.5 Bath
2,224 Sq. Ft.
90′ x 150′ lot

http://tinyurl.com/224jgz

Used home not in good shape in same town:
$199,900
4 Bed, 3 Bath
2,628 Sq. Ft.
0.46 Acres

http://tinyurl.com/224jgz

Just seeing a used home in Baldwinsville over 2000 sq feet list under $200k is something but when I saw new construction at this size being priced this low (and yes I know that price may not include a basement or windows-snark) that tells me the builder’s are trying to adjust to a new market. This is going to add major pressure on the existing homes in that town which according to truliadotcom are at an average list price of $220k.

I saw one McMansion in that town which was only built about 2-3 years ago but which has been on the market almost 1 year already come down $100k. (High $500k to high $400k)

Comment by CarrieAnn
2007-12-30 10:47:11

builder’s=builders
(sigh)

Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 11:18:19

Still too expensive. My friend says buy when prices are $50/foot in middle class locations.

Comment by scdave
2007-12-30 11:25:50

Can’t buy the materials for $50. per ft…

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Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 11:30:17

I can get them for $30/foot if I build it myself. In Texas you can buy a brand new house(including lot) for $60/foot and some people still think this is overpriced! Prices don’t have much room to drop, perhaps to $40/foot for a 3000-4000 square foot tract house on 1/4 acre lot. Smaller houses of course will be more per foot.

 
Comment by flatffplan
2007-12-30 11:56:09

I was going to say $ 30 for a plain jane -er
2000 sq ft house

 
Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 12:19:06

Yes the house will be a simple tract house with a simple roof and nothing fancy anywhere. But then most people don’t need fancy, just affordable.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-12-30 12:27:56

what you get in TX for $60/sq foot generally is something nobody here would live in.

 
Comment by exeter
2007-12-30 12:51:00

Dave, I can GC my own shack for

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2007-12-30 10:37:12

Just read the latest Coldwell Banker “now is the time to buy” cheerleader column in one of the local freebie weeklies. The person who wrote the column encourged people to put their IRAs to work, by lending FBers the money to buy an overpriced house. Has anyone else heard of this? Is this the latest RE scam to relieve stupid people of what little IRA money they may have left?

Comment by NeilT
2007-12-30 11:04:05

It is essential that a fool must be parted from his/her gold. That is Nature at work. Once the stupid becomes poor, despite govt handouts, it is hard to keep their gene pool intact. They may be able to breed, but with the odds stacked aganist the offspring, extinction of the DNA is likely.
After the new scams are all played out, watch our political leaders pass new laws to lock the barn door.

Comment by Left LA Behind
2007-12-30 14:42:09

Sounds good in theory, but in practice, our government is coddling the fools.

For references, please view:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=upyewL0oaWA

Comment by house_broken
2007-12-30 15:52:16

be quiet… I’m watching the latest episode of “Oh, My Ballz!”

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Comment by ldup
2007-12-30 20:33:54

lol… work anywhere in the country, in a high volume hospital maternity area… and i promise you will be depressed after a very short stint…

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-12-30 12:54:37

I heard about this very thing from those “helpful” people I dealt with when I got my mortgage. (Memo to self: Do not patronize this company again.)

They were organizing seminars on using one’s IRA to buy property. And all that did was make me mentally draw a barbed wire fence around mine.

This was in early ‘05, and no, they didn’t get their mitts on any of my IRA money.

Comment by not a gator
2007-12-30 18:35:45

It must steam the banks to no end that IRA monies can’t be touched in a bankrupcy.

 
 
 
Comment by montana jim
2007-12-30 10:58:05

“‘Buyers are the ones that are driving this train,’ Burnham said about the current housing market.”

And this train isn’t gonna run on the NAR’s schedule, anymore. The passengers haven’t even begun the boarding process and the engineer is questioning the railroad’s track record…

Comment by Neil
2007-12-30 13:08:23

The sensible buyers have decided they’ll take a later train when the opening gremlins are taken care of.

Everything is pointing to slower sales in 2008 than 2007. Higher inventory too… We know what that will do to prices. How much slower? San Diego (thanks to Jim the Realtor’s blog) is trending down ~23%. Since that city leads… it should be a good indicator. That implies sales of 4.5 million homes per year… assuming no further slow down. I think sales will be in the 4.0 to 4.5 million range (vs. ~5.67 estimate for 2007).

Let’s assume a 15% price cut in 2008. Or that Realtor ™ commissions will be ~ 2/3rds of 2007. My… it might be interesting watching them feed the alligators.

That of course assumes the wheels stay on.

Got popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by stanleyjohnson
2007-12-30 11:11:58

Does anyone here know if this person is in someway related to Larry Goldilocks Kuntlow.
http://tinyurl.com/2xcf8o
Reason I ask is he just doesn’t understand or want to face what is about to happen.

 
Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 11:21:54

“‘No one expected it to continue at the pace it was going at,’ Kramer said, ‘But the thing about Central Oregon is, it’s still a great place to be, and everybody I talk to still feels comfortable about making an investment in a home here. Maybe there’s going to be a little bit of a lull in the market, but nobody feels there is going to be a decline in the long term.’”

Keep saying that. No one thought Florida would decline big time but it has and still declining. I would not be surprised to see some smaller, older houses in north FL hit the $50k mark

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-12-30 11:48:04

I would not be surprised to see some smaller, older houses in north FL hit the $50k mark

Agreed. Saw a $39,9 listing for a broken down house in Palatka the other day (not livable), and you can buy marginally rentable houses in Jax crack-and-gunfire neighborhoods for under 50K if you enjoy living dangerously. But the day of the truly livable 50K non-pre-manufactured home is not so far away.

Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 12:03:35

From what Zillow said, houses back in 1998 used to be as little as $20k in Gainesville. Those sellers want $80k to $120k wishing prices for their tiny 700-1200 square feet 2/1 shacks. There was one for $80k that the realtor admitted wasn’t even worth looking at and she recommended a condo instead. Would I be correct to say those shacks will bottom out costing around $40k?

I am seeing dozens of REO’s in Cape Coral for $120k to $150k or around $100/foot. I expect them to drop down to $60/foot so a typical 3/2 1500sf house should be $90k

Prices elsewhere should drop proportionally depending how overpriced. The biggest drops are in the most overpriced locations.

Comment by not a gator
2007-12-30 18:40:06

The $80K homes used to be $30-40K according to my coworkers. And these are decent 2 or 3 bdrm concrete block homes (1950’s construction and later).

Lots of crazy lending here (it’s weird because it was unnecessary) and a lot of Blacks are going to lose their homes, which will be bad for the community.

The 1920’s and 1930’s bald cypress shacks probably did go for $20K. They vary a lot in construction quality. The better ones rent for about $800/mo. Nice profit. That’s why some landlords managed to acquire dozens of homes in the same ‘hood.

If I’m still here in five years I’ll be paying cash for a nice house. ^_^

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Comment by measton
2007-12-30 11:29:52

This just in
It’s different in Wisconsin.
Local paper quotes realtor as suggesting Madison won’t be affected.
I’ve seen most of the properties I follow drop their asking price 5-20%. I suspect they are also more likely to accept lower bids.
How do these guys live with themselves.

Comment by MadBoy
2007-12-30 14:47:08

I saw this, too. Can’t get access to the number of listings and sales, at the moment, but I plan on double checking the quote. It could be true the number of active listings is dropping, BUT the number of sales are dropping. According to another realtor, Madison is back to 1994 prices.

The quote about people not losing equity is a joke. One house started at 240K in May and accepted 202K this month. It was purchased two years ago for 215K. There are two areas of new construction in Madison where people are trying to sell for about 20K less than what they purchased for 3-4 years ago.

My favorite - a local realtor tells me “homes in this price range are stilling selling quickly” (the house has been on the market since July).

Comment by MadBoy
2007-12-30 17:04:12

Sorry, 1994 prices should read 2004 prices.

 
 
 
Comment by Tomasyalba
2007-12-30 12:08:34

Love the story of that poor fella who can’t sell his fancy condo in the South Lake Union area of Seattle. This is such a weird neighborhood, real-estate-wise. It’s been bought up by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, the Baby Huey of local real estate. He’s got three other fancy condo complexes rising up right there, plus other parcels nearer the lake where he’s going to be building low- to mid-rise office towers. Couple weeks ago he signed Amazon.com to 15-year leases worth almost a billion dollars. Amazon plans to move all its workerbees down there. Local realtors hope all those average-pay Amazonians will suddenly buy all the condos.

A 12-acre development parcel just north of there is up for sale by the local Clise family, too: bids were submitted by Paul Allen and by Emaar, the Dubai development company backed by the royal family. Apparently oil money and software money is still willing to make bets on this scale. Tellingly, though: the Clise family said both bids were too low, so they yanked the property off the market.

Weird stuff in that neighborhood. Thanks again for all you do, Ben.

Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 12:21:14

This is one location people shouldn’t consider relocating. Prices will bottom out elsewhere long before. Florida is dropping nicely in price but I may still leave as im not waiting years and itll be cheaper up north still.

 
Comment by txchick57
2007-12-30 12:26:17

Has Paul Allen ever made a dime investing in anything?

Lets start with Transmeta and go from there.

Comment by Groundhogday
2007-12-30 14:40:34

Isn’t that the truth. Paul Allen made money investing in a friendship with Bill Gates. Since then, it has been all down hill.

 
 
 
Comment by vmaxer
2007-12-30 12:10:04

“High sales prices were cold comfort to would-be home sellers who found it difficult to move their homes at any price.”

If they didn’t try listing it one dollar, they didn’t try “any price”. Comments like that are amazing. When prices fall enough there will be a market clearing effect. Until then attempts to artificially support prices will just cause the pain to drag on longer.

Comment by Bye FL
2007-12-30 12:22:36

I urge people not to buy before 2010 unless it’s maximum $50/foot(as my friend told me)

 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2007-12-30 12:58:41

I find it interesting that Countrywide gave him his loan.

 
Comment by NeilT
2007-12-30 14:16:31

“They said they couldn’t fund a condo where all the units aren’t sold yet,” said Moore, who was slated to put a 20 percent down payment on the first unit finished in the building. “Where is there a situation where all the units are sold?”

Sweet music to my ears! Yes, it should be next to impossible to get a mortage. Only then the much-awaited deflation in RE prices will occur.

Comment by uptown
2007-12-30 15:26:59

Thought this used to be standard practise; forced most buyers to go through the builder’s lender or broker. Basically you had closings at about the same time.

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2007-12-30 12:35:57
Comment by vozworth
2007-12-30 12:46:04

“It’s not just individual consumers who are at financial risk. Nationwide, an estimated $575 billion in new and used auto loans are written every year by auto manufacturers, banks, credit unions and other lenders. About 30% of the loans that are originated by banks, and 100% of those issued by automaker financiers, are, like mortgages, repackaged and sold as securities, according to the Consumer Bankers Assn.”

chick you are on target today, all the goods are out there…

read the tea leaves for the stock market for me…tomorrow is the last day to throw all the losers under the bus and get a fresh take on Aught Eight.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2007-12-30 13:00:37

Funny you should mention the stock market. Was discussing that topic with Dad this morning.

He asked if I had a portfolio of stocks, and I replied that I did not. He asked why, and I said that I believe that the stock market is massively rigged in favor of the insiders, and that neither of us would get anywhere near to making (plundering) what they do.

He didn’t disagree with me.

In fact, he gave me a quick lesson in how to open and manage a Treasury Direct account. Right now, he favors the two-year note. I tend to agree with that one, although I need to do a bit more homework.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2007-12-30 15:35:20

Mon deux centimes: Father knows best. If Fed continues to lower rates (likely), yield curve could steepen as short rates fall and longer rates reflect higher inflation expectations. Two-year rates should not rise in a Fed-easing environment, so besides the yield (a rather paltry 3% and change) you are unlikely to see capital losses and may see capital gains. Good conservative play for next 6-12 months, then re-analyze.

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Comment by kevintx
2007-12-30 16:35:18

Money spun off from our fractional reserve banking system tends to flow into the stock market. Insiders are the most lucratively rewarded but small investors get some scraps as well. This flow should reverse in a credit crunch.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2007-12-30 14:51:43

Wow!

“In October, the average amount financed hit $30,738, up $3,500 in just a year and nearly 40% in the last decade, according to the Fed. More troubling, today’s average car owner owes $4,221 more than the vehicle is worth at the time it’s sold — up from $3,529 in 2002, according to industry analyst Edmunds.”

Is behavior like this one of the “strong underpinnings” of this my-tee economy the decider mentioned last month?

Comment by KenWPA
2007-12-30 15:56:48

What surprised me was that close to 45% of all auto loans are now longer than 60 months. Talk about overextended….

Comment by kevintx
2007-12-30 16:38:02

From Shakespeare’s Hamlet, 1603:

LORD POLONIUS:
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

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