January 7, 2008

Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For January 7, 2008

Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




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320 Comments »

Comment by wmbz
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:05:47

Ouch! Luckily energy is not a component of headline inflation, or the Fed would have cause for concern.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:11:08

I am wondering whether these “non-under-educated-retail investors” are of the same ilk of the rocket scientists who brought us the subprime mess? I guess it all depends on how well they managed to parcel out the risk that oil prices will crash in the event of a U.S.-led global economic slowdown.

January 07, 2008
Markets Bet Heavily That Oil Will Move to $200

These bets are not being made by under-educated retail investors. They are being made by professional traders who see large profits in putting money down that oil hits $200 by year-end.

Macroeconomic trends favor the bet more each day.

Douglas A. McIntyre

http://www.247wallst.com/2008/01/markets-bet-hea.html

Comment by downpuppy
2008-01-07 08:24:11

I’ve been betting on oil going up for the last 7 years. Based on a lot of new production due to come on line, and the expectation of a recession, I’m expecting a 2 year pause before oil starts going up again.

Of course, that could change with one BOOM in the Straits of Hormuz, so I ain’t putting money on it.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-01-07 10:01:23

Yes, I don’t expect oil prices to go down much, unless there is a global depression, which I am not betting on. I expect something more like a country-by-region rolling recession. I am still constructive on oil companies, as their profit margins may actually grow if the price of a barrel falls a bit.

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Comment by slorenter
2008-01-07 08:52:14

Still cheap at 14 cents a cup, wow thats cheap. Lets see a cup of joe at starbucks is what 4 bucks? oil @ 200.00 is not out of reach for 2008. Also the most expensive coffee at starbucks is about the same price for an ounce of silver.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 09:22:21

When we had silver coinage, coffee was a dime. Of course that was without the Starbucks ambiance.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 09:59:12

The USA is the only place I know of, with bottomless cups of coffee, in a restaurant setting.

Might become a casualty?

Say it aint so, cup of joe?

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Comment by peter m
2008-01-07 14:14:39

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/washington/08military.html?ref=world

Do we have our Middle East Gulf of Tonkin here? Tit- at-tat in the gulf of Hormutz between US warships and Iranian gunboats .
$200 a barrel oil here we come.

Gunboat diplomacy.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-08 00:08:56

Number one son likes to play this game with his younger brothers. Number one is always hovering in the territory of the young’uns. Young’uns often times hit number one and occasionally throw shoes his direction (but so far have not obstructed passage with boxes). Number one then claims self defense when he hits back.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 21:28:39

America’s inflated asset prices must fall
By Stephen Roach
Published: January 7 2008 17:55 | Last updated: January 7 2008 17:55

The US has been the main culprit behind the destabilising global imbalances of recent years. America’s massive current account deficit absorbs about 75 per cent of the world’s surplus saving. Most believe that a weaker US dollar is the best cure for these imbalances. Yet a broad measure of the US dollar has dropped 23 per cent since February 2002 in real terms, with only minimal impact on America’s gaping external imbalance. Dollar bears argue that more currency depreciation is needed. Protectionists insist that China – which has the largest bilateral trade imbalance with the US – should bear a disproportionate share of the next downleg in the US dollar.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5a5419aa-bd47-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html

 
 
Comment by housing hanky panky
2008-01-07 04:18:35

If you must panic…………always be the first to do so……….even if you are the boss.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/money/2008/01/07/ccview107.xml

Comment by wmbz
2008-01-07 05:36:03

Even if the D.C. gang sends us all $500.00 checks it is not going to matter. They should get out of the way, but of course they won’t. I’ll spend mine on silver should it arrive.

Comment by KayLaw
2008-01-07 05:45:29

That’s what I’ll do, too, but $500 won’t buy much, especially if you have to pay shipping and handling.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 06:38:51

I’d donate my $500 towards the efforts to impeach the entire cabinet, to rid us of their stench.

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Comment by Earl 288
2008-01-07 09:28:07

Buy barf bags.

 
 
Comment by bubbleglum
2008-01-07 06:49:11

How about $500 worth of toilet paper or beans? Much more practical.

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Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-01-07 07:48:29

Toilet paper? If things get that bad I’ll rip up and use the carpet and put the savings towards more beans.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:28:10

I bought a bunch of canned food at CostCo this weekend, which puzzled my lovely wife…(the prices were still right!).

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:40:01

It’s a weird concept, buying for the future…

We like this store, as the bargains and interesting variety of foodstuffs and liquor is amazing. Kind of a Trader Joe’s, but prices are really low, as they get close outs, or discontinued items.

http://www.groceryoutlets.com/about_faqs.aspx

We bought a year’s worth of canned and dry food, over the course of 5 visits. Each time we’d have a couple of carts of food, for around $150.

We’d never had more than 3 weeks of food in our pantry, until we “invested”.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 10:32:29

“It’s a weird concept, buying for the future…”

At least one religion has institutionalized the concept…

http://lds.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://deseretbook.com/store/product%3Fproduct%5Fid=100015376

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 10:45:09

About the 3rd trip in a week, the employees were curious about what we were up to, and asked?

a.) Do you own a campground?
b.) Are you Morman?
c.) You must have a big family?

 
 
Comment by Chad
2008-01-07 14:45:08

Hey Kay, investment rarities dot com includes thier shipping in the cost of the coinage and bullion they sell. Reasonable prices for how much it all weighs. You just might be able to still buy a roll (20) of 1921 Morgan dollars, but don’t quote me on it. I haven’t checked since silver was upper 13’s oz.

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Comment by hd74man
2008-01-07 14:57:34

RE: but $500 won’t buy much

Fuel oil truck made it’s monthly stop to my 84YO mother’s house today.

165 gallons X $3.70 = $610.50.

Got change for a $1000.00?

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Comment by aNYCdj
2008-01-07 07:25:52

My guess is they will increase everybody’s credit card limit $1000, it gets the $$$ to the Amerikan peeps, at no cost to the guvmint.

 
 
Comment by His LordShip
2008-01-07 08:02:16

Raise your right hand & repeat after me 3 times….
“”"We are a controlled economy like Russia “WAS”…”"”
“”"We do NOT like free markets”"” They sometimes go down!!!!

 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-01-07 08:05:11

And you think things might get tight in the USA. This is interesting, from the above article:

Not even a Bush New Deal can hold back the post-bubble tide that is drawing in across the globe. What it can do is buy time. Fortunately for America - and the world - the US budget deficit is a healthy 1.2pc of GDP ($163bn). Washington has the wherewithal to fund a fiscal blitz. Britain has no such luxury. Our [UK] deficit is 3pc of GDP at the top of the cycle. Gordon Brown has shut the Keynesian door.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-01-07 10:17:07

The standard of living for people at the same income level is already considerably lower in the UK than the US. You are going to hear some scary stories coming out of the UK if TSHTF.

Comment by are they crazy
2008-01-07 12:47:49

Actually, you are incorrect. It was just in the news yesterday that the standard of living in the UK is higher than US for first time since 19th century.

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Comment by sm_landlord
2008-01-07 13:33:28

That was not the standard of living, that was per-capita income. However, almost everything is more expensive for comparable quality in the UK, so that standard of living is still much lower, even though average income has temporarily reached parity.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:23:46

“It appears to have powers to support the markets in a crisis with a host of instruments, mostly by through buying futures contracts on the stock indexes (DOW, S&P 500, NASDAQ and Russell) and key credit levers. And it has the means to fry “short” traders in the hottest of oils.”

How credible is this information source? Do U.S. journalists buy it?

I am wondering if this information coming to light might change U.S. financial journalists’ standard list of reasons the markets moved (”traders decided this, traders decided that, …”)?

 
 
Comment by JP
2008-01-07 04:37:51

To the DC-area HBBers:

We will have our first outing this Tuesday 7pm at Capitol City Brewing Co on Capitol Hill (2 Mass Ave NE). At this point, my list is 9 people: zeropointzero, gt, polly, Xpovos, Hondje, clue phone, NOVAwatcher, jane, and me. I also note that some on the list are only probabilistic attendees.

I’m planning to show up with a upright 8×11 sign that says “It’s Different Here”. (I’m coming in from NOVA. Shouldn’t be a problem being on time, but you guys know the traffic situation.)

If you want to join the list (please do!), then leave a post here so we can give the proper heads up to CapCity.

Comment by Lost in Nova
2008-01-07 04:50:46

How hard is this place to get to from Herndon?

Comment by JP
2008-01-07 05:41:37

About as hard as getting from any point A to any other point B in greater DC: Completely impossible. Naturally, you can’t let that stop you. And I find swearing a lot in the car causes great comfort.

If it helps, CapCity is within stumbling distance of Union Station metro, so if driving/parking is too onerous, that might be a good alternative. FYI: The google maps directions make sense to me, and you are anti-commuting, which will help a little.

Comment by Xpovos
2008-01-07 07:41:57

395N in the afternoon sucks. I never quite understood how it was so bad, but it is. Metro is highly preferable, I would think.

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Comment by polly
2008-01-07 06:15:51

It is right on the Red line Metro. As in, you fall out of the regular exit (not the one that takes you to Amtrak) and you are practically there. Seriously, I think you can see a sign at the top of the escalator. Very, very easy.

 
 
Comment by DcBob
2008-01-07 06:20:04

Would love to come, but it will be 65 and sunny so I will be on my bike.

Comment by JP
2008-01-07 06:43:30

FYI, my favorite article from Bicycling Magazine:
Beer, The New Sports Drink

And another thing, it won’t be sunny at 7pm. :) So stop by if you energy left.

 
 
Comment by jim A
2008-01-07 07:11:04

Hey, I’m interested.

Comment by jim A
2008-01-07 07:14:10

So it’s the one in the ex-PO instead of the ex-Greyhound bus terminal.

 
 
Comment by Justin
2008-01-07 07:24:36

I’m interested as well, but if it is indeed 60 degrees out, I’ll probably go for a run. Need to take advantage of these nice days.

Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:21:06

It gets dark AFTER 5 pm and probably the temp Will drop when the sky gets dark.
Is it that safe to run/bike AFTER dark and the temp drops?
Me? if I could I would do the Meet up.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-01-07 07:52:23

I’ll be with you all in spirit, but I’m now 450 miles away. I and a co-worker used to drive from downtown to Reston for work, right through Toll Brothers Country. Seriously, in 2004 there was a billboard on Route 7 that said “You’re in Toll Brothers Country!” at the entrance to the fugliest development I ever laid eyes on. Yeah, like a real rich person is going to want his fake-stucco or brick-face (not brick) hip-roof non-architecture storage box within 15 feet of the identical storage box next door. We had a real laugh over it.

Don’t get me started on the condos…

Comment by zeropointzero
2008-01-07 07:59:58

Can’t make it - have previous plans. Have fun, and don’t profess the bubble-head glee toooo loudly and scare the poor folks out to celebrate closing their new condo purchase at the next table.

 
 
Comment by STL
2008-01-07 10:49:25

I can make it. Will be taking the metro from Crystal City.

 
Comment by MikeG
2008-01-07 13:41:37

I hope I can make it, but I can only say “maybe”… It’s the NH primary day you know. CCB will probably be packed with politicos watching.

 
Comment by auger-inn
2008-01-07 15:22:58

Gosh, I’d love to show but I’m way up in New Hampshire. Any chance someone can stand in for me? Pretty easy job, get obnoxiously drunk, swear a lot, leer at some gals, tell a couple of bad jokes and then puke on the floor of the john, just basic a-hole stuff-nothing exotic. Let me know if someone is up for it cause I always wanted to make one of these gigs!

Comment by polly
2008-01-07 16:25:39

How…charming. I’m sure we can arange another one so you don’t have to outsource your preferred role.

Comment by auger-inn
2008-01-07 19:46:24

Great! Can I assume I’m penciled in to sit at your table? :)

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Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 04:59:12

Somebody please hold me while I weep. This piece of fishwrap arrived on my doorstep this weekend. The column in question is referring to the neighborhood I live in. Note the prices of the house listings on the right which are about 4x what this neighborhood should be buying income-wise. I just wonder if I should bother to skin the idiot who wrote this alive or maybe turn him over to the Tyler, Texas cannibal.

It’s a .pdf for anyone that needs to know that

and IT’S DIFFERENT HERE!

http://www.advocatemag.com/uploads/pdf/01ED_1_08.pdf?PHPSESSID=6577b6a9fc8deff3371ea47857ebb598

Comment by Danni
2008-01-07 05:59:25

I love the house on the right that looks like a doublewide trailer for 700k. At least I think it said that. The print is so small and I’m only on my first cup o’ joe.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:06:16

I started to write a responsive column for the magazine but why bother.

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-01-07 06:07:06

Yikes. Did you see some of the mugs on those hags? I haven’t seen anything that heinous since I toured a slaughterhouse in ‘92.

 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-01-07 07:41:24

So Jeff Siegel says it’s no problem because house prices are up nicely over the last FIVE years, since 2003? Uh, Jeff, that’s what we’re talking about: The fact that prices are up so much in the last five years IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM!

I want to see his comparison of 2008 prices to 2006 prices.

 
Comment by JGM Dallas
2008-01-07 13:17:27

TxChick, I’ve been avidly reading this blog for several months and get a kick out of your posts especially because you’re in my neck of the woods and I like your take on things. I’m just curious as to whether you have any strong opinions about the Lake Highlands area in Dallas. I’ve always loved Lakewood and the M streets, but as you know–affordability is a big issue there. I have little kids and would like a good public elementary option, which leaves me maybe Stonewall and Lakewood in East Dallas, and some of the LH schools like White Rock, Moss Haven, Merriman Park, etc. in LH.

I’m having my annual housing/tuition crisis where I try to determine whether to lock myself into paying another year of private school tuition for my oldest two or moving to an area with a better public option. (I’m in Lochwood now.) Do you foresee LH prices dropping much in the near future? It does seem like many houses in the LH neighborhoods I like (White Rock North, White Rock/Laurel Valley) went from list prices of mid 300’s to mid-to-upper 400’s over the last couple of years, but I’m starting to see some of those sit there, which is encouraging. Does your “DO NOT BUY” analysis of the Lakewood prices extend to LH? Thanks!

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 16:51:01

That’s where I live. I wouldn’t pay those prices. No way.

Comment by JGM Dallas
2008-01-07 17:33:04

Yeah, that’s what I thought. It will be interesting to watch the prices and sales here in Dallas during the next six months. I couldn’t believe it when I saw $750k houses going up after teardowns in WRV. There’s one being built on Meadowglen right now. What are they thinking? Who buys these places?

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Comment by watcher
2008-01-07 05:21:57

OC peddles kool-aid:

At best, a bottom.

That’s what I can divine is Orange County housing’s fate for 2008 from gathering the opinions of some folks – brokers, investors, economists and consultants – who watch the local market.

http://www.ocregister.com/money/market-housing-estate-1952113-real-prices

Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-01-07 05:39:27

Yes, “bottom calling” will be the new obcession of ‘08. One thing is true however, with each passing day we’re one day closer to the bottom.
The bottom will be reached once prices are back in historic sync with incomes. How fast or slow we get there largely depends on our politicains and the various bailout plans that will (not) be implemented. No matter what plans get implemented, it will not change the final outcome, but only how long it takes to get there.

 
Comment by Darrell in PHX
2008-01-07 05:55:38

“Those observers closest to the housing game seem the most optimistic that the market’s serious slump may be a bad memory by year’s end.”

Those observers with the most vested interest seem the most optimistic that the market’s serious slump may be a bad memory by year’s end.

Seriously…. why can’t a reporter mention that the amount of optimism is directly proportionate to the income dependance.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-01-07 07:52:23

“Seriously…. why can’t a reporter mention that the amount of optimism is directly proportionate to the income dependance. ”

Exactly, “faith”-based economics.

 
 
Comment by Lip
2008-01-07 06:48:33

“What we need is the Fed to proactively drop interest rates by a full percentage point right now to help those whose adjustable rate loan resets in 2008,” says Irvine real estate consultant John Burns.

Are adjustible rate loans linked to the Fed prime rate or is this RE Consultant full of wishful thinking?

Comment by az_lender
2008-01-07 07:08:04

More likely linked to LIBOR, which may itself fall if int’l economy weakens sufficiently. Fed Schmed.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 07:15:00

conFEDeracy of dunces…

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Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-01-07 07:14:20

Wow, a full point. “Gimme, the money, gimme, gimme, gimme!” says the desperate real estate wh0re. Nothing like a good knee-jerk reaction from the real estate lobby, eh?

To answer your question, adjustable rate loans are, unfortunately for him, not directly linked to the Fed prime rate. They track it more or less, but lately, the key word might be “less”. Here’s why: Many of the problematic loans these days are based on LIBOR, and that’s diverging from the Fed’s rate because of banks distrust of each other’s balance sheets.

A huge Fed cut might to wonders to kick off inflation, of course. Now for ARMs based on the things like the Average Maturity Treasury rate, it might help (that rate has tracked a bit closer to the fed fund rate, but no guarantees). But those are are mostly NOT the borrowers who are in trouble.

In any case, for all these million or more people who got in on cheap teaser rates that didn’t even reflect the cost of money when money was cheap, there is STILL no way they can afford the house at the normal rate even if you make money cheap again. Doom.

Comment by hd74man
2008-01-07 15:03:17

RE: “Gimme, the money, gimme, gimme, gimme!” says the desperate real estate wh0re.

What the fook do these people want?

I saw 30 year money @ 5.88% APR in the real estate funding section of the BeanTown Glob Sunday paper.

It’s the price, stupid!

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Comment by Earl 288
2008-01-07 09:39:19

The Fed does not set the prime rate.

Comment by buckwheat
2008-01-07 10:05:14

There are a lot of people who do not understand this. They are conviced that if the Fed lowers rates the adj mortages will be saved…NOT!

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Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-01-07 10:52:59

True, but the Prime Rate (set by banks, I should have not said Fed in same sentence) almost always tracks the fed funds rate, even in this volatile time. Will it continue to do so? I say probably yes, but no guarantees.

But as buckwheat says above, changes there don’t mean your ARM is going to change for the better, since most ARMs are not indexed off of Prime. (Lots of HELOCs are, but HELOC payments are usually much smaller than the payment on the first mortgage.)

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-01-07 05:33:51

This snow might put me out of action today folks. It’s blotting out the streetlights.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 06:20:36

Good luck! Ours is all gone. It’s hanging around 60deg today and tomorrow in WNY. The grass is greening.

Comment by Blano
2008-01-07 06:31:01

60 degrees in Detroit at 8AM.

 
Comment by bizarroworld
2008-01-07 06:56:01

A balmy 55 in Rochester and possible record warmth tomorrow. Best of luck to those of you affected by the storms out west. While the precip is cheered the problems the storm causes are not welcome.

 
Comment by ozajh
2008-01-07 08:01:04

Today’s forecast here is for a maximum of 30.

(* Now can I remember my high school maths from 30 years back. Ummmmm 9/5 + 32 IIRC, sooooo *)

Make that 86 if talking Fahrenheit.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:46:48

30 years ago

We were all set to go metric, but decided otherwise…

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-01-07 09:18:27

Yeah, whatever happened to that?

Same thing that happened to increasing fuel efficiency standards, planning for the future, and weaning ourselves from foreign oil, I guess.

 
Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:27:06

And Zero Population Growth.

Pffffft

 
 
 
 
Comment by Lip
2008-01-07 06:50:50

Awesome, promised to bring the kids up to Snowbowl this month.

 
Comment by Cassandra
2008-01-07 07:14:40

Ben,

I took about a 60 sec power hit about half an hour ago. I am on the hill 4 blocks north of FMC.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-01-07 07:40:40

Yeah, my backup has clicked a few times and the lights dimmed. I probably have 5 hours of shoveling to do today. And I hear it will snow all day.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2008-01-07 08:06:22

You should the local equivalent of the “Our Gang” of kids going around cleaning up all the snow.

When I was kid Hurricane Frederick hit Pensacola and I rounded up four of my buddies and we cleaned up about twenty yards (picking up the branches and raking the pine straw/leaves). Cleared $400 over two days which was a huge score for a bunch of 12 and unders. We would sit around talking about how the kids up North had it good with the regular snow storms that would hit and how we had to wait around for a hurricane every five years or so.

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Comment by bluprint
2008-01-07 08:52:05

I think if I lived in an environment like that, I would just buy/build a flamethrower. Forget the shoveling…

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 10:02:21

I dreamed of having a snow-fort…

Growing up in so cal

 
Comment by are they crazy
2008-01-07 13:02:32

Was always jealour of cousins who had snow in their yard while we had to drive to the snow. Turns out they were jealous of us because we didn’t have snow.

 
 
 
 
Comment by RoundSparrow
2008-01-07 07:26:26

I suggest the Honda inverter based EU2000i generator for basic power of computers, etc. Will run for 8 hours on 1 gallon of gasoline. About $1000 but will NOT drop in value, sell used for what they go new years later.

Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 13:47:12

I suggest 27 Sunpower 220 watt solar panels. They cost me almost $28,000 but save me over $200 per month. In just under 10 years (at current rates) they will have paid for themselves and who knows how high electricity will be then!!

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-01-07 08:44:33

Chilly today on the front range, but no snow (yet).

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 09:05:29

The Sierra got a ton of snow, especially in the north…

There was also serious wind damage to many places on the west coast, which seems to be getting more common with the climate changing.

Comment by SaladSD
2008-01-07 10:05:22

Had a nice soaking throughout the night here in SoCal. Keep scanning the ceilings for possible roof leaks, but my 10 year old tract house seems to be holding up nicely. (guess the roofers were having a good day). My office, though, is another story. The skylight blew off and rain poured through, soaking the carpet.

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Comment by lavi d
2008-01-07 10:46:05

Las Vegas reporting in - a lovely 52 and cloudy.

Great bicycle weather!

Comment by lavi d
2008-01-07 10:56:59

Oops. It’s actually gorgeous today.

It was cloudy when I came to work and Yahoo assures me it still is, but a quick look outside - Ahhhh!

I suppose the temp is right.

 
 
 
Comment by de
2008-01-07 05:40:47

AnnScott -

please email me at

dealton45@yahoo.com

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 06:00:13

A friend called last night…

I had no idea he was as upside-down as he was, shocking.

Nearly $300k in arrears, he told me.

If you’d asked me how I thought he was doing a few days ago, i’d have thought he was doing ok…

How many more ticking financial time bombs are out there, do you suppose?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-01-07 06:16:41

We spotted a couple on New Years Eve. There are time bombs everywhere. I see no way to defuse them, either. They need to be allowed to explode and start over.

 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 06:35:06

Did he call just to lament, seek advice, or was he angling for $ help?

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 07:11:04

All of the above…

What do you tell a friend, that’s just a bit more than an acquaintance, aside from condolences and solidarity?

I’d buy him dinner, pay for gas and shelter, if push came to shove…

But to become the 1st National Bank of Your Friends?

No thanks.

Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:33:23

That is what happened to old roomie, 2 yrs ago, and just a wk ago, she told me all. There was no way I could be the Bank of Friends, and she lost both houses.
I think we will be seeing more friends come forward after dealing with “shame” which in many cases isn’t warranted.
That is the only reason people don’t speak out earlier.
Shame. Hoping to figure out a way, then it is too late for sure. Then when a person finally lets go of the house etc.. poof, Shame is gone. So much angst for such a relief moment from then on. Truth be told, from my other friend who assists attny for bk. Everyone that comes in,accordg to her, is shamed and then when it is over…poof, the relief is visible.

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Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 13:55:00

My wife told me that one of her friends was confiding in her about their money problems and how they are having trouble affording the house they bought over 6 years ago. I immediately said “Then what the hell was she doing buy herself new boobs just 6 months ago!!” My wife laughed and told me she was thinking the same thing!!!

 
 
Comment by Roy G Biv
2008-01-07 19:36:48

My friends are always invited to dinner. Of course I usually make soup for myself, but I thank God for that and they are welcome to share.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 07:11:06

All of the above…

What do you tell a friend, that’s just a bit more than an acquaintance, aside from condolences and solidarity?

I’d buy him dinner, pay for gas and shelter, if push came to shove…

But to become the 1st National Bank of Your Friends?

No thanks.

Comment by Danni
2008-01-07 07:33:25

My best friend is always in need of financial help, and I mean ALWAYS. I love her to pieces but I’ve learned the best way to help is to guide the horse to water with helping them get a handle of their finances but whether the horse drinks the water is up to them.
I can’t even buy her groceries anymore because when she gets her act together and has the money she just pisses it away which to me is the equivalent of flipping me the bird.

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Comment by oxide
2008-01-07 07:58:09

I was suckered in by a mooch once. At the end of the day, probably lost about $1500 more or less. I consider myself lucky; it a cheap lesson.

 
Comment by Not_In_Montana
2008-01-07 10:06:05

The problem I see is they always need more, and they hate you because they feel guilty, so you lose them as a friend anyway.

 
Comment by Chad
2008-01-07 15:13:14

I HAD a friend that would need to borrow a bit here and there ($50, or $80, but never more). His way of “paying me back” was paying for stuff, a dvd, coffee, or some other crap. After a few times, I actually sat down with him and went over his budget. He had it together for a few months, then I saw him one day at those cash loan on car title places a couple years after I stopped talking to him. Good riddance.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Lip
2008-01-07 07:02:33

aladinsane,

$300k is quite a bit, is it bad timing or multiple Helocs? I think there are thousands of people in every major city that will be sitting on a financial time bomb.

In the last week I’ve talked to people who:
(a) Bought in ‘07 in the OC and their house is down $100k (but they can afford it),
(b) Divorced couple trying to sell and they’re asking/wishing price has gone down from $529k to $349K while they owe $385, which would be a short sale, and
(c) Couple moved to another area and are going to rent out their house until the market comes back.

In the future the fact that you’ve defaulted or had a short sale on a house will not be that damaging to your credit score (when it comes to buying another house) because the banks are going to be forced to sell them to someone. There will be millions of houses to dump and there won’t be that many buyers with clean credit.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 07:21:44

He was just another Serial Helocer, in the city of angles…

Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-01-07 07:43:48

To all HBBers — I am looking for good data sources on HELOC/Refi loan amounts, preferably pegged to time and region.

My interest stems from my unscientific belief that foreclosures from HElOCERs will eventually outnumber the subprime/adjustable crowd. The subprime script has overtaken the coverage, and I believe many are overlooking the bigger problem that will really make this thing drag out. Consider that the bulk of ARMs were made in a short time span, say 03-06, and the HELOC phenomenon has been around longer.

As many here have posted, the ARM foreclosures [loans that should have never been made], will lead to price drops, thus trapping those who refinanced to pay for lifestyle, toys and property taxes. We are already seeing plenty of short sales on Long Island that fit this profile.

Should anyone have this data, or a link, please send to me at editor@carbuyersnotebook.com, and/or post here. I am in touch with a couple reporters, as well as some elected officials, and have been trying to make this point, but I could use some hard data.

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Comment by rms
2008-01-07 08:03:21

“How many more ticking financial time bombs are out there, do you suppose?”

A whole lot more than Dubya will ever admit!

Comment by REhobbyist
2008-01-07 12:11:19

GWB is going to give a speech on the economy today. I’ve noticed that everytime he does that, the ticker decreases as he speaks.

 
 
Comment by REhobbyist
2008-01-07 11:56:15

Aladin: was he asking for help?

 
Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 14:02:43

It has been said for a long time on this blog, Wait until the tide recedes and we are going to find out who is really swimming naked. Well the tide is starting to recede and those naked swimmers are going to ask for clothes. Personally, I don’t want to see them naked (except for maybe the wives who recently got their boobs done;) )but I as sure as hell am not going to clothe them either.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:05:00

Anyone want an over/under on how long this gap up will last this morning? That is the last thing you want to see after a day like Friday. The most bullish thing that could happen would be a huge gap down under support. Unless the Fed does a rate cut this a.m., I give this gap 15 minutes after the open to be gone.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-01-07 06:10:22

NASDAQ up 40 today. Good time for a short squeeze. But I won’t bet on it.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:21:18

To me this seems eerily similar to 2000. I’m looking to close out puts today and go long unless it crashes through the floor.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-01-07 06:24:49

What’s the verdict on the Axis of Evil?

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Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:42:16

Friday was bs. Get a bid in there. Low though, why not.

 
 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 06:42:44

I think the odds of an up week are good, although there’s probably more chance of a huge move on the downside. Market will act well to no news or good news but is still poised to act very negatively to NEW bad news.

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Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 14:17:34

To me, as long as it stays above 12,600 I think we are in good position to rally and have the spring pop. If it sinks below this then I am not so sure. I think the market is going to trade sideways until 4th quarter profits tell us something or the Fed eases! After spring at the latest I see a bear market for most if not all the year.

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Comment by Blano
2008-01-07 06:24:52

What “gap up” are you referring to??

Sorry…..I just bought “Technical Analysis Plain and Simple” by Michael Kahn, but this stuff ain’t sinking in very good.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:41:04

The index futures are gapping up. This is routine on a Monday following the kind of beating we took on Friday.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-01-07 07:51:46

Buy a month subscription to Worden Brothers and use monopoly money. Reading about TA just doesn’t give you a good idea of what trading is about.

 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2008-01-07 06:29:26

We will see shortly.

I’m hoping the gap up will put the indexes in “No man’s land” while taking off/reducing the oversold condition which should bring in a lot of sellers in while a gap down would bring in buyers leveraging off an “open window” combined with an oversold condition and some type of chart support at a lower level.

Is this about right or is the above the “greatest story ever grasped for” by a trader holding a short position? LOL.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:39:28

I love Jas Jain, don’t get me wrong, but every time he starts crowing about his market timing expertise and counting the profits he makes but never takes, a bottom is not far away.

Comment by P'cola Popper
2008-01-07 07:00:05

Been there, done that.

I have my account value put on “privacy” so I can’t see it and just trade the charts/price action indicators. Seems to help keep the mania under control.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:04:53

In honor of Good Times…

JJ is now (Deflate-o-Mite!)

(with apologies to Jimmie Walker)

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Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 13:39:36


Hello Chick,

I never crow about my market timing expertise. I take long-term positions and I have been looking for the Scam Market to top some time in 2007. I happen to call the TOP in real-time here on HBB and why is that bothering you or anyone.

I don’t call turns the way you do every few days, do I? I didn’t call up or down day on Monday, did I?

BTW, I am having another great day and I don’t expect to make gains every day, but from here onwards, with my recession call being on the mark, I expect to have lot more gains than losses.

I hope that I have made myself clear. I am NOT a trader.

Jas

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Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:43:53

It’s pretty oversold, holding Nov support so far (tho I figure that will cave this morning) and making another higher low so far. This same thing happened in early 2000. The real shorting opportunity came in March.

 
 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-01-07 06:12:57

Carmela C!inton is being interviewed on NPR right now. They asked if she could afford to lose New Hampshire. I was shocked when she didn’t give a direct answer. She then asked that voters look at her record and see that she is the best qualified for the job. What record does she have? Anybody?

“If you want to know what I’ll do, look at what I’ve done.” Ouch!

Comment by wmbz
2008-01-07 06:21:23

“What record does she have? Anybody”?

That’s just it, she has no record. Obama Osama is up 10% in the polls, she’s toast. At least I hope so, her voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Comment by DC in LBV
2008-01-07 07:50:58

Sorry for this being so far off topic, but since it is here.

Her record? Every job she has ever had was either given to her by her husband, or donors trying to buy his influence. Her only White House experience has been sleeping with the president, but there seems to have been quite a few others who have a better claim to that.

 
Comment by MattR
2008-01-07 11:04:20

Obama osama? What are you, in second grade?

 
 
Comment by flatffplan
2008-01-07 06:22:30

top 10 in senate for raising taxes and voting for “social” spending-
par for NY

 
Comment by Blano
2008-01-07 06:27:38

She keeps talking about “governing experience,” but no one ever asks what hers is.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 06:46:20

I am loving this. Early rejection. That nasty ho needs so serious tough love from the voters.

 
Comment by Isoldearly
2008-01-07 14:06:02

I heard in an email today that she has never led in city, county, state or federal government — however, she did have eight years in the White House … but then, so did the pastry chef.

 
 
Comment by cynicalgirl
2008-01-07 06:40:17

You expect a direct answer from a politician? :)

Comment by Englishman in NJ
2008-01-07 07:02:31

Apparently she was responsible for peace in Northern Ireland, according to her publicity people yesterday.

Quite impressive, and at the time she kept so quiet about this wonderful achievement.

Discreet and brilliant - should we really bother looking any further?

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 07:09:07
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Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 07:33:48

She used to work with the guy who invented the internet. What less would you expect?

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Comment by passthebubbly
2008-01-07 07:29:18

Carmela C!inton is being interviewed on NPR right now. They asked if she could afford to lose New Hampshire. I was shocked when she didn’t give a direct answer.

I hope your “shock” is sarcasm. When has she ever given a direct answer to anything?

 
Comment by phillygal
2008-01-07 08:11:14

Carmela…CARMELA?

lol

I actually did see my cousin Carmela over the weekend. She’d make a pretty good POTUS IMHO.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:29:49

er, not that Carmela…

More of a Soprano, methinks

Comment by Chad
2008-01-07 15:22:46

I was thinking Cruella.

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Comment by wmbz
2008-01-07 08:28:46
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 09:50:05

OMG. That’s better than the money I made today.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:58:58

Ye gads — check out that closeup photo (act fast, it may soon change)

http://www.ft.com/home/us

Comment by rms
2008-01-07 12:33:50

“Ye gads — check out that closeup photo…”

Looks better than 12-18 months ago when she had “moon face”. Prednisone?

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Comment by david cee
2008-01-07 11:31:15

This is a housing blog…I come here for really good housing info…if you have strong opinions on politics, take it to the Faux News Blog. Keep Ben’s Blog focused on real estate

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 12:20:17

would you be saying that if she had won?

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-01-07 12:21:30

Right but this is the pieces & parts section, don’t let it bug you just scoot on past the comments.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 12:32:10

This month will probably mark the end of the bush-clinton-bush junta, after 27 years of screwing up our country.

Good Riddance!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 13:58:38

This is about real estate. If HC gets elected, don’t be surprised to see the BC-era $500,000 home equity capital gains tax exclusion summarily increased to $1m — “for the children”!

Besides, this is the bits bucket: “Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.”

Here is a slightly-off-topic idea — check out the Iowa election futures market chart:

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_DConv08.cfm

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 14:19:17

‘Meanwhile, Democrat hopeful John Edwards has confided to senior staff that he is staying in the race because Hillary “could soon be out.”

Her money is going to dry up,” Edwards confided, a top source said Monday morning.’

David?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:34:44

Failed command-and-control health care reform proposal

 
 
Comment by kahunabear
Comment by Left LA Behind
2008-01-07 06:28:45

The mother in the “today” box should advise the child to check the minting date and if it is pre-1982, keep it, otherwise, dump it!

Comment by jim A
2008-01-07 07:21:08

Yep, for a little while there we HAD a fully convertible currency. THAT didn’t last long.

 
Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 20:54:47

So you are going to be in charge of collections on sundays?
giggle

 
 
Comment by P'cola Popper
2008-01-07 06:33:16

Need an additional 2010 frame with a couple pig men beating off the kid to get to the penny.

Comment by downpuppy
2008-01-07 08:57:17

It’s tuppence to feed the birds. Tuppence, tuppence, tuppence a bag.

 
 
Comment by yensoy
2008-01-07 08:13:25

I say let’s go straight to plastic pennies. Since the vested interests that be aren’t willing to completely give up on the penny (and round to nearest 5c or 10c) this could be a good solution.

Comment by slorenter
2008-01-07 08:59:03

Finding a penny in 1910 would be like finding a dollar today I believe. Lets look ahead to 2050, thats when it gets scary…I could see the USD not even existing anymore.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 09:34:39

Plastic penny made from corn.

 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-01-07 11:06:42

I say let’s get rid of pennies altogether and just round all purchases to the nearest nickel. Or dime, for that matter. Why have a unit of currency that is too small to purchase even the least expensive item available?

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-01-07 20:19:11

We need to go back to pieces of eight so programmers can eat from recoding the stock market again.

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Comment by Chad
2008-01-07 15:29:06

Shouldn’t the mom and the kid of today be morbidly obese?

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-01-07 06:51:55

“As housing crisis deepens, cities fight lenders over abandoned homes.” Buffalo tries to force maintenance of houses in foreclosure limbo.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22506609/

In places like Buffalo, the best course might be to bulldoze whole areas an make room for redevelopment with better, more energy efficient housing.

But in other places housing that could and should be sold and re-occupied may end up falling apart just because mortgage servicers are overwhelmed. I say pile up those fines and liens and try to force a sale.

Comment by oxide
2008-01-07 08:04:11

Amen. I predict that Buffalo will rise again someday…or at least stop falling. The Rust Belt will become the Water Belt. And if global warming doesn’t hit the lake levels too hard, Buffalo has the extra advantage of free e- from Niagara Falls.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 09:22:19

I had a dream about Niagara Falls last night (had somehow just stumbled upon it, was on the U.S. side), and was thinking about what a pretty place it is this morning. What is it about water in dreams again?

Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:40:24

Did you check your bedding? depends…lol

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2008-01-07 10:30:58

Fascinating article about Buffalo in the City Journal:

Can Buffalo Ever Come Back?

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_4_buffalo_ny.html

 
Comment by Earl The Vagabond
2008-01-07 19:22:00

lol… That’s funny. Actually, Buffalo has relatively expensive power thanks to govts of yester-year. The surrounding states get the river power and we get the shaft.

 
 
 
Comment by Englishman in NJ
2008-01-07 07:05:20

Chick:

It seems the QQQQ’s are coming off their highs in the futures right now. I kept my short position from Friday (risky, I know, and not something you would probably do), do you think we might open flat? What do you think the prospects are for the first couple of hours?

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 07:23:56

No, I have QQQQ puts myself. If the “usual” script follows, this gap will get sold off pretty fast and then I ’spec we’re heading for a break of 2400 S&P (under the Nov. low of 1407) which would probably trip a bunch of stops and cause panic selling. That’s where I will probably kick my puts out because they were late spring expiration and I am very confident I can get them back much lower than this.

So since every other trader probably has the same road map, today will be the first Monday crash ;)

 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 07:29:21

I answered you, it seems that longer posts take longer to show up.

Comment by Englishman in NJ
2008-01-07 07:32:28

didn’t see it, but nevermind now. The market just opened and seems very flat - I think I got away with my risk of holding over the weekend but I will be watching very closely for a rebound. Thanks anyway.

 
 
 
Comment by JamesRaven
2008-01-07 07:08:34

So it seems the two paths Shrub can take are leave it alone and let the cards fall where they may, or mess with it and make it 10% better, but twice as long.

Since, at the moment, it’s clear that he may be seeing a veto-proof Democratic Congress and a Clinton-less White House, my bet is that he wants to make it as bad as possible for as long as possible. Hey, the WSJ is already helping by calling this trainwreck “The Clinton Housing Bubble”.

One thing about conservatives, there isn’t any negative event they won’t blame on a Clinton, and no positive event they won’t spin as good for Republicans.

But no matter what the political flavor, I still totally respect the economic spin I get here, for it shines far brighter than anything “out there.” Had to put a stick in my friend’s wheels this weekend. He’d been reading the local San Diego paper and (remember this is the one I talked out of catchinig a falling knife a month ago) crowed that the bottom was already here and he may buy in the second quarter. I asked him who bought the majority of the ad space around the story he read. He got it.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 09:49:04

“…One thing about conservatives, there isn’t any negative event they won’t blame on a Clinton, and no positive event they won’t spin as good for Republicans.”

Blame & spin will not work this election.

It won’t matter:
Obama will win in Nov. by a National landslide. :-)

 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-01-07 07:13:57

inflation watch:

Jan. 7 (Bloomberg) — Prices paid to European manufacturers accelerated in November to the fastest pace in almost a year, boosted by surging energy costs.

Factory-gate prices increased 4.1 percent from a year earlier, the most since they rose by the same margin in December 2006, the European Union statistics office in Luxembourg said today. The increase was above the 3.3 percent gain in October and the 4 percent median forecast for November in a survey of 21 economists by Bloomberg News.

http://tinyurl.com/2u85mx

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 08:07:16

The Germany based heavy manufacturing company that I work for raised its prices 4% across the board. Average cost increase in recent years was 2.5 to 3%.

Of course for me the big deal is the 15% currency exchange hit. The cost for any project I do is 19% higher than 1 year ago. It looks like more hunting and fishing is in my outlook for 2008. Lucky for me I was a good ant and lived during the boom years like it was really a depression.

Comment by de
2008-01-07 08:40:43

Not luck, Blue. You were smart enough to realize what could happen. Give yourself credit for a good call.

 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-01-07 07:15:37

UK property losses:

Jan. 7 (Bloomberg) — LaSalle Investment Management put Condor House, a seven-story office building facing London’s St. Paul’s Cathedral, on the market for 130 million pounds ($256 million) six months ago. The building sold last month for about 117 million pounds, 10 percent below the asking price.

Appraisal values fell at a record rate in November and commercial real estate derivatives contracts indicate owners of British offices, shopping malls and warehouses may suffer their biggest annual losses in more than a quarter century.

http://tinyurl.com/33wlkk

Comment by flatffplan
2008-01-07 07:24:33

UK was a conundrum, till now

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:10:30

Think of the World as a House of Cards…

Our card fell down, and look how the other cards are reacting?

A visual for you:

http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/bm03/art/img_4690.jpg

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 08:18:48

Nice visual. Who’s card is the topless gal holding?

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Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:43:36

Dominosssssss

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Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-01-07 07:30:03

News from London via Bloomberg about REITs there:

“Real estate shares, the worst performers last year of 39 industry groups on the London Stock Exchange, trade at a 32 percent discount to net asset values”

A 32 percent discount to NAV! Now you’d think that if any people really thought that a 32 percent crash is NOT likely, they’d be loading up on these “cheap” shares. But apparently they are not, and in fact some of the funds are implementing withdrawal restrictions. The article is mostly about commercial real estate, but the REIT situation spans both commercial and residential.

I’ve been thinking for some years now that the UK is in for a nasty price adjustment; the question I could never answer is exactly when the timing would make it so. This might be the precipice.

Full article is at
U.K. Real Estate Losses May Be Biggest in 25 Years

 
Comment by passthebubbly
2008-01-07 07:30:39

Did anyone else watch The Simpsons last night? The opening chalkboard gag was “Teacher Did Not Pay Too Much For Her Condo.” If this isn’t a sign the bubble has gone mainstream, I don’t know what is.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-01-07 07:46:13

Speaking of condoze - haircuts in Chicago.

Spotted last night - billboard at Sheridan and Pratt (just north of Loyola University). Builder closeout/auction, units that were $419,000 with a starting bid of $175,000. Ouch!

Two people I know bought within blocks of there for $250,000 a few years back - in vintage conversions. Their comps are toast.

Comment by WT Economist
2008-01-07 08:16:31

North Shore for $175K? Nice if it happens. Let’s hope we get some of that in Brooklyn NY.

Comment by passthebubbly
2008-01-07 08:18:36

I think 1brs on the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park and Lake View will even settle a little lower, like around $160-165k.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-01-07 08:23:46

These are in east Rogers Park - not exactly a prime location. Even so, the magnitude of these numbers is a first for this neck of the woods. Developers had been sticking to incentives and modest reductions - until now it seems.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-01-07 09:34:32

I drove up Clark St. for miles yesterday, for the first time in a long time. I was amazed by the number of brand-new condo buildings + the number still under still under construction.

There’s still an incredible amount of condo inventory yet to come online, even in neighborhoods generally deemed more desireable than. East Rogers Park.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:16:50

I am waiting expectantly for Desperate Housewife Edie Britt to cancel her real estate license this season.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 08:22:14

Only after she’s hooked up with a “former owner” of the Texas Rangers…I mean the woman knows how to keep her closet full. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2008-01-07 08:31:12

Has anyone seen the “dollar isn’t looking good” McDonald’s commercial?

Comment by slorenter
2008-01-07 08:44:25

Yeah I laugh every time! Dollar is looking good! It just shows as long as they can buy a burger for a buck, the currency crisis does not exist.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-01-07 09:41:43

It’s funny that the Fed and Administration are soft-pedalling the rate of inflation / nominal buying power and fast food commercials are speaking directly to it.

Heckuva job, Bushie. Heckuva job, Bernacke. Heckuva job, Paulson.

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Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:47:24

Senior citizens on fixed incomes I know of, spend $1.00 Tuesdays at Del Taco getting the 3 for $1.00 and split the 3 tacos. That is how badly the severly fixed income crowd can eat.And believe me, there are more out there than you all know of. When was the last time you went to a $1.00 store and seen all the senior citizens?
It is a sad commentary on our “Great” US.

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Comment by hd74man
2008-01-07 15:21:58

RE: When was the last time you went to a $1.00 store and seen all the senior citizens?
It is a sad commentary on our “Great” US.

Hmmm…

Every morning @ 6:30AM when I trundle in to purchase a cup o Joe it, why does it always seem like it’s always the “seniors” who are in line at the convenience store to purchase a handfull of state lotto scratch tix.

Yesterday I went out to eat with my younger brother and mother. Restaurant was full. Not a person under 65.

Daughter works PT at the Monhegan Sun Casino. Says most of the players are grey hairs who arrive by the busloads.

So, I guess with a lack of lotto hits, Sunday eat-out din-din’s, and the slots all grabbin’ a big share of the Ponzi scheme SS money, it’s no wonder “split a Taco time” comes down the road at the end of the month.

 
 
Comment by Chad
2008-01-07 15:36:43

I’d rather eat the dollar.

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Comment by In Colorado
2008-01-07 09:47:45

Did anyone else watch The Simpsons last night? The opening chalkboard gag was “Teacher Did Not Pay Too Much For Her Condo.” If this isn’t a sign the bubble has gone mainstream, I don’t know what is.

Poor Edna Krabappel! Now in addition to never finding Mr. Right, she’s an FB!

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 07:32:48

Meet the new riders of the purple sage…

Japan’s new rich party like it’s 1989

“They customise the headrests of their Rolls-Royces with “Harry Potter writing”, sip martinis poured over diamonds and buy US$130,000 (NZ$168,930) watches on a whim.”

“Maserati sales were up 21 per cent in January to November 2007 compared with the previous year. Ferrari sales grew 11 per cent in that period, Porsche 15 per cent.”

“Meanwhile, cars for the once so mighty middle class are selling badly. Toyota sales fell 17 per cent in the same period, Volkswagen sales 6 per cent and Mercedes sales 7 per cent.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10485624

Comment by watcher
2008-01-07 08:35:23

Luxury goods have always sold well in Japan; something about the culture I suppose. Interesting that they single out financial workers. I wonder how long those individuals will have large disposable income. Used Rolls probably sell for much less than new ones.

 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 08:04:12


Recession, Recession, Recession…

I watch quite a bit of CNBC-World. No matter where the business broadcast was originating from last night, East Asia and Europe, the talk of the town was US recession. This morning a strategist on CNBC, as soon as I turned on the TV, said that we will barely avoid recession. We know what the last comment means coming from a stock-promoter.

Recession IS here and it is here to stay for a very long time. Here is why.

Americans can live well on consuming 70-80% of the new products, i.e., use the old homes, old cars, etc., than they did in 2007. What I mean is that the US households have excess inventory to work off. Therefore, we will have a major consumer led recession, which will easily slide into a depression. What would a 5% drop in the GDP, YoY mean? 8-10% drop in employment (think restaurants, hospitality & leisure, etc.). And how about 10% drop in the GDP? Sorry, I forgot that the Fed wouldn’t allow that kind of drop. People wanting to cut back on consumption based on new purchases, because they already have lot of stuff they need, has no place in our economy.

Jas

Comment by hd74man
2008-01-07 15:29:56

RE: Recession, Recession, Recession…

Job market is dead.

State & munis govs are stone cold broke-so forget the public employee sector.

Health care related work on 3rd shift seems about it for the private sector, as it is winter here in the north country with no lawns to mow.

We are Wal-Mart Nation

 
 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 08:10:30

So who gets credit…if there is no author? ;-)

From: Investor’s Business Daily Jan 7th 2008

“…Yet, though the U.S. economy is head-and-shoulders above the others, you’d never know it from our friends in the mainstream media. As repeated surveys show, U.S. media coverage of the economy is overwhelmingly slanted toward the negative side of things.”

http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/080102/issues01.html?.v=1&.pf=personal-finance

 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 08:11:38

Be sure and watch the Art Cashin video embedded in here

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/C-jpm-bac-WB-wfc/index/a/15423

Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 10:53:51

WOW
A must view

 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 12:38:53

Hey, when I clicked on the link in the article to go to cnbc…it caused a major windows system error…I’m look’in to whack someone with a 20# trout! ;-)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:12:38

Which way is “out”?

January 7, 2008 10:11 A.M.EST
BULLETIN
Wall St. climbing out of hole

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/marketsummary/

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 08:22:55

My puts are offered for sale now.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:44:25

The odd thing is that the market was up already when the marketwatch.com headline said Wall St. was “climbing out of hole.” These marketwatch.com headlines border on the prophetic (but don’t always turn out to be correct!).

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 09:06:23

75% out. I just can’t help but think this is a successful test of the Nov. lows.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 12:29:11

What I don’t get is why investers think expensive coffee will do well in a downturn (PEET/SBUX)?

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:17:25

For the 3 of you out there, that attend…

This year’s theme for Burning Man is “American Dream”

I just realized we have to build the coolest House Of Cards ever, as our token of esteem to said theme.

Fire is an important part of the vibe in Black Rock City @ night, and I wonder how we can incorporate flames into our artwork?

Comment by speedingpullet
2008-01-07 11:59:31

Maybe you could make a giant Mortgage certificate, then burn it ceremoniously.

All done with huge, huge irony, of course….. ;-)

Or create a McMansion from used “what, when, where?” booklets…and a pool made from old glowsticks…

Ah, roll on August.
Husband and I are already scoping out RV’s.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 12:08:03

We just had friends up for new year’s with a sharp 1991 RV, with only 35k miles, and it was their uncle’s, who kept it in fine shape.

Cost them $7500 and gets 7 mpg.

I’m a tent kinda guy, so rv’s aren’t for me…

But, a couple of years ago…

Campmates had a rental rv that cost them around $3k, and there was the wickedest of dust storms, and I ducked into theirs and visibility go down to nothing, for hours, as I nursed one gin & tonic another, keeping Malaria away.

Comment by Chad
2008-01-07 15:50:03

I usually like the tent too, but I’m waiting for an Airstream Safari cheap.

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Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 20:59:36

Me too.
Airstream or vintage mint condition refurb to ‘07 technology Silverstreak ‘46

Been to one of the Vintage trailer weekends where you can walk into all of em and some are pretty slick.

 
 
 
 
Comment by richard
2008-01-07 14:04:37

What are the dates for burning man and where is it held

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 15:20:24

It’s always held the week leading up to labor day, about 115 miles n/e of Reno.

 
 
 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 08:17:25

War? What war? Economy trumps Iraq in election

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSGOR74662420080107

America to Shurb & “Dickey Boy” Cheney: Mission Accomplished!

Who the heck has that banner anyways? Sir Greenspent must have it in his basement with his “box index” ;-)

 
Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 08:24:11

“Joe Stiglitz, today at the American Economic Association Meetings, talking about financial crises: “Once-in-a-hundred-years events occur every 10 years.” He’s thinking of the stock market crash of 1987, the Long Term Capital Management crisis of 1998, and the current subprime-plus crisis — all of which involved changes in asset prices that were supposed to be vanishingly unlikely.”
Paul Krugman

Leigh, Looks like I will owe you! 24 days left

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 08:40:01

Happy New Year, Hoz!

Asset price movements are definitely “not normal.” Normality would imply a degree of predictability, and an exploitable arbitrage opportunity for options traders. What is left after this (normal volatility) arbitrage opportunity is exploited is a bit chaotic.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 08:46:00

I’m just going to set a stop at today’s high and let it take me out if that happens. This has been a windfall profit no matter what.

Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 10:25:03

A felicitous New Year to all.

I expect a 200 to 400 point rally (one day) then a collapse of the market. The market is very oversold, but on weekly closings all of last years lows in August and November were taken out. Ride the Bollinger Bands down.

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Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 08:40:43

I keep raising my offer on the remainder of the puts. Don’t want to miss something like that but don’t want to give it back either.

This is the hard part of trading.

Comment by Xpovos
2008-01-07 09:29:52

And here I thought the hard part was in doing due dilligence and research into the companies you were going to invest in.

Eh, I don’t even come close to understanding what it is you’re doing, let alone why. Which probably explain why you’re making money and I’m not.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 09:32:40

Long term investors in good stocks always do better over the long run than active trading or turnover. These are uncommon times though.

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Comment by sm_landlord
2008-01-07 11:32:44

Agreed - it looks like we are at an inflection point. I am a long-term investor, not a trader, but I have made more trades in the last three weeks than in the last couple of years.

 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 12:21:56

when the ducks are quacking, feed ‘em

 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:43:29

Hoz…

Happy New Year~

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:37:34

“Once-in-a-hundred-years events occur every 10 years.” = Mississippi River floods

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 08:36:59

Half out.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 08:50:08

Old Ripple Effect: You drank too much cheap wine

New Ripple Effect: Dominoes falling upon one another

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 09:14:12


Scam Market Will Be Down At least 10% by April, From Friday’s Close, To Fully Factor the Recession

Key words are “at least” and that would not be the end of it (juts a near-term target). The off-and-on slide will continue into 2010 with tech carnage that will resemble 80%+ drop during 2000-02. A reasonable bottom may form in 2010.

The current recession that we are in will prove to be no ordinary recession. Scam Lovers who have faith in the Fed will be sorely disappointed. Blind faith has its consequences. Sorry, but Fed can do lot more harm than good, as hard as that may be for many to believe. Showering money on irresponsible bankers does an economy no good.

Ja

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 09:43:39

If this is to make a “w” bottom here, we should rally for several days and then back down again to maybe a lower low on the right side of the “w.” That’s where I’m looking to buy.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:42:59

Or will it look more like a “z” by the end of the day? Meanwhile, you have to admire the marketwatch.com headline writers’ flair for description:

“January 7, 2008 1:37 P.M.EST
BULLETIN
Wall Street stumbles upward

Bargain shopping vies with concerns over how to position for a severe economic downturn. Crude-oil bulls are having a rare rough day.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:45:25
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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 14:15:04

TxChick wins — it’s a big Texas dubya…

 
 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 13:48:33


OK, Chick, keep hoping for your W bottom or whatever. I am staying pat with my long-term puts. Into the November decline I did sell quite a bit to take positions in tech puts and I am happy staying pat for S&P500 below 1350, or Dow below 12K. Then I might sell 10-20% of the puts mostly to rotate into better Scams to buy puts on.

My goal for the put holdings is 10x in two years. I already have 3.3x since mid-July. I don’t expect to have gains every day or every week.

Jas

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:32:44

“Showering money on irresponsible bankers does an economy no good.”

What if they directly support stock prices? (I refer you to the Ambrose Evans-Pritchard piece posted above in the bits bucket.) Why would you expect the market to fall in that case?

Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 14:48:02


I don’t have as much faith as others do in govt’s ability to support the mkt once the economy starts to tank. And it has. There are people, including on Wall Street, who would love to sell to the PPT, or the Working Group. As Soros showed they CAN break the govt.

For the record, all three major indexes closed down in the futures mkt.

Jas

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 09:32:40

Anybody contemplating getting solared up?

We’ve been at it for about 3 months now.

My buddy that does it for a living, tells me there are almost 50 companies installing solar panels in the greater Fresno area…

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-01-07 09:51:05

My brother-in-law used to do solar panel installs in the Mendicino / Humboldt region when they lived in NoCal, now works on energy efficiency for a university here in Illinois (including, but not limited to, large solar arrays).

He says the energy efficiency business is doing pretty well these days. His former company is doing well despite poor management.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 09:55:23

My friend worked for 4 different solar companies and told me how messed up they were, management-wise.

Seems to be a common theme?

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 10:30:25

Solar is the new Webvan.

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Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 15:25:54

I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! I placed an order on 3 HJan 07 and it took until end of Aug to get the system in due to paperwork issues. They had wiring diagrams wrong, the paperwork to SDGE was all screwed up. If I hadn’t been overseeing the project and asking questions they would have screwed the whole thing up. In the end I am extremely happy with the 27 Sunpower solar panels but the process was a pain in my A$$ due to their incompetence!!

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Comment by Civil
2008-01-07 10:09:51

I looked at solaring our new house but it still does not pencil out. Even with tax breaks, needed about 15 to 20 years for payback vs. Arizona utility rates and with Az tax breaks - and that assumes the solar equipment lasts that long. When solar comes down about 1/2 in price, then can take another look at it.

Comment by Troy
2008-01-07 10:46:45

solar lasts forever, tho I agree with the sucky payback rate.

That’s the secret about alternative energy . . . even if it were free to the supplier, said supplier will get the market rate for the energy supplied.

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Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 15:34:22

Not in California!! I am just under a 10 year payback and that is at current rates. I see it as an insurance policy and a way to keep my expenses fixed. I did pay cash and probably could get a better ROI based upon the stock market gyrations but having very little electric bill every month makes me smile! I was averaging over $300 per month and now I am looking around 100 per month. I live in San Diego and have no A/C either!!

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Comment by shakes
2008-01-07 15:44:07

I am sure many are saying $300 per month with no A/C. San Diego has a tiered system 29 cents a KW at the highest tier. My house is only 2570 square feet so no McMansion here but I do live like a king. 1 frig for food, 1 frig for beer, 1 frig for wine, hot tub, large 3 tiered fountain in back yard, large fish tank with grow lights on 12 hours a day and a wife a home with kids that do not know how to turn off a single light no matter how much I bitch!! I am also old school when it comes to Christmas lights I like the big C9’s and wrap my house with them. It raises my electric bill $200 for Dec. Next year I am going to give the LED C9’s a try.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 09:42:52

Financial Globalization and the U.S. Current Account Deficit
Matthew Higgins and Thomas Klitgaard

“Conclusion
Perhaps surprisingly, large U.S. current account deficits have
not led to an unusual buildup in foreign investors’ holdings
of U.S. assets; in fact, foreign investment in the United States
has remained broadly in line with the relative size of the U.S.
economy and the U.S. capital markets. The key reason for
this outcome has been rapid financial globalization, with
cross-border flows worldwide rising as fast as flows into the
United States. Our results suggest that such globalization has
allowed the United States to finance large current account
deficits without experiencing sharper downward pressures
on the dollar and U.S. asset prices. However, a retreat from
the recent pace of financial globalization by foreign investors
or an increase in the rate at which U.S. investors buy foreign
assets could make it more difficult for the country to sustain
a large current account deficit on favorable terms.”
Caution pdf
New York Federal Reserve
http://tinyurl.com/2nsb9q
Interesting because it treats the entire US economy as a single stock and compares to other ’stocks’ around the world. Smart investors go where the return is best.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 09:57:55

“…Smart investors go where the return is best”

Which country in the world has the best laws for seeking compensation if there is financial damage? It ain’t China or India or Brazil or Mexico or Russia…But hey, I’m not signing up for the Global “boat cruise” anyways. ;-)

 
Comment by Darrell in PHX
2008-01-07 10:05:20

“foreign investment in the United States
has remained broadly in line with the relative size of the U.S.
economy”

But, we haven’t had a real recession in about 25 years. ‘91 and ‘01 were like 2 quarters long and a 1% drop.

What happens if the U.S. economy goes into a serious recession or depression? Throw in a 2-3 year recession with 10%-20% or more drop in economic activity, and suddenly those foreign holdings jump A LOT in relation to the size of the economy.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 09:44:13

Mother Nature (always bats last) is in the clean-up spot, and i’m always amazed at her resiliency…

20 years ago the Quagga mussel showed up in the Great Lakes, and more recently, in January all over the Colorado River, and now it’s in 5 of San Diego’s freshwater reservoirs.

The first of the 1/2 inch invaders came on a Russian Ship…

What sort of a predator are they?

Deadly

“The volume of all prey fish in the lake — alewife, bloaters and other small fish eaten by salmon, lake trout and whitefish — dropped by half, from 61 kilotons in 2006 to 30 kilotons in 2007, according to data compiled by the U.S. Geological Survey’s Great Lakes Science Center.”

“That’s the lowest volume recorded since the government began tracking prey fish densities in 1973. Prey fish abundance last year was 92 percent below the record volume of 400 kilotons recorded in 1989, said Chuck Madenjian, a USGS research fishery biologist.”

http://www.mlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2008/01/big_lakes_fish_population_plum.html

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 11:41:38

Hey, you gave me another “income generation” angle for this year…Texas size “organic” trout…must be a market in Manhattan NY… because that’s where ALL the money is! ;-)

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 09:58:30

http://tinyurl.com/2bwnla
Peak oil? from AlJazeera youtube

“For every six barrels we consume we find one—at this rate we need to find a Saudi Arabia every four years”

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-07 10:10:10

An Aljazeera exotic hottie, talking Peak Oil?

Yeah, Baby!

 
 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 10:22:36


Looks like one by one many are falling in line to confirm the recession that has been here for 2-3 months. Sadly, they all forecast recession after it has already begun. All the y can do is to confirm it; never being able to forecast several months ahead of time. Who wants to run the risk of being early or wrong?

Economists exist to make weather forecasters look good!

Jas

-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

David Rosenberg, Merrill Lynch; 01/07/08:

Employment report suggests a recession has arrived

Friday’s employment report confirmed our suspicions that the economy was transitioning into an official recession towards the end of last year:

1.At no time in the past sixty years has the unemployment rate risen 60 basis points (50 bps is the actual cutoff) from the cycle low without the economy slipping into recession, and here we now have the jobless rate hitting 5% in December versus the March/07 trough of 4.4%.

2.Aggregate hours worked in the economy contracted at a 0.4% annual rate in 4Q, and this comes on the heels of a 0.6% decline in 3Q. Back-to-back declines in total hours worked have always been associated with recession.

3.The breadth of the report was also very poor with the diffusion index slipping below the 50 cutoff mark, just like ISM, to 48.4% from 52.2% in November. A number below 50 indicates that a plurality of industries are now in the process of cutting jobs outright – heading into the last recession, this index fell below 50 in February 2001 and the recession began … exactly one month later.

4.The level of unemployment is up 13% YoY, again a development that has always been consistent with past recessions. The YoY rate of change in the level of the unemployed who have been idle for at least 15 weeks is particularly ominous – +20%, which is a pace that prevailed in the early stages of prior economic downturns (hitting this trend in April/01 and in Aug/90 when the recessions were one-month old).

5.And we have Household Employment contracting 49,000 in 4Q and the YoY trend slowing to +0.2% in December from +2.2% a year ago, another classic recession signal. Consider for a second that in March of 2001 that trend was running at +0.8%, and in July of 1990 the pace was +1.1% – those two months represented the onset of a technical recession and yet the trend in Household jobs is weaker now than it was then.

In sum, Friday’s employment report strongly suggests that an official recession has arrived. The recession dating committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) will be the final arbiters, but since it waits for conclusive evidence, including benchmark revisions, it may be at least two years before we are notified.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 10:45:43

Check out San Diego’s KPBS Radio’s “These Days” take on the 2008 economic outlook for San Diego. Dan McAllister and Dean Calbreath weigh in on the causes and likely aftermath of the bubble.

Paraphrased sampling of discussion:

“Alan Greenspan deserves a share of the blame for pumping in so much money over the past ten years.”

“The high end of the housing market (Del Mar, Rancho Santa Fe, La Jolla) keeps going up and up; it is mainly the lower-priced areas that have dropped.”

“Interest rates are at an all time low, and the Fed is posed to push interest rates even lower, that could push more money into the economy.”

A caller asks about implications of the high rate of vacancy in retail space in downtown SD. (Missing from discussion: High rate of office space vacancy noted in Friday SD Union Tribune article).

McAllister: “Over time, there will be no fire sales for the downtown market. San Diego will remain a great place to do business, and a great magnet for people wanting to do business.”

My prediction for 2008: The high end of residential RE will disproportionately weaken, as the credit crunch bites the ueber-rich, and Jumbo loans become very expensive when subject to prudent underwriting.

Economic Forecasting for 2008
Jan 08, 2008
Audio will be posted the afternoon following the broadcast

What’s in store for the economy in ‘08? On the next These Days, we’ll look at how the slumping housing market will impact the economy in the year ahead.

http://www.kpbs.org/radio/these_days;id=10510

 
Comment by OC-Jerry
2008-01-07 11:07:21

Did any of you see “Flip This House” on 05-Jan? Highlights:
1. This is Atlanta, where all the fake buyers supposedly loved the properties. But now it has the assistant as the primary flipper. While a not-so-silent silent partner pulls the strings. This has got to be code for “A&E kicked me off, so I’ll do it anyway with a shill partner.”

2. Of course the silent partner didn’t bother with permits.

3. Too costly, foreclosure, walk away bombshell was great.

4. The huge middle pillar that wasn’t in the plan blocking the view.

5. The terrible plumbing that hung below the sheetrock line.

6. My favorite part was when the silent partner wrote a check out for $6000, knowing that the properly was going to go to foreclosure.

I had to watch it twice because the estimated renovation costs weren’t that much lower than the actual, yet they made such a big deal over the back deck breaking the bank.

Where have all the competent people gone?

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-01-07 11:07:31


Breaking News…

Atlanta Fed President Lockhart says that painful adjustments would be necessary. Isn’t this another confirmation of the recession?

Jas

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:36:19

That is confirmation that the Fed is laying the foundation for leaning into the slowdown with monetary stimulus.

Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 11:41:38

yep

 
 
 
Comment by neuromance
2008-01-07 11:09:26

What credit crunch? Interest rates on mortgages are still historically very low. Interest rates in general are very low. If there were a credit crunch - no one willing to lend - wouldn’t interest rates be skyrocketing?

Here’s the historical list of rates on the 30 year fixed mortgage, since 1971, from Freddie Mac: http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

Low interest rates and “credit crunch” seem to be oxymorons. Lots of people still seem willing to lend, if interest rates are any indicator.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 17:29:30

What additional indicators do you suspect others might be considering?

 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-01-07 11:14:55

I just want to clue you guys in to this website, which is showing promising negative “appreciation” in the Bay Area neighborhoods that I checked (even though DataQuick has been suspiciously reporting gains all over the Bay Area).

http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/San_Jose_CA-79512600000.aspx

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:15:16

Pessimism:
Philosophy, Ethic, Spirit
Joshua Foa Dienstag

Winner of the 2006 AAP Award for Best Professional/Scholarly Book in Philosophy

Cloth | 2006 | $35.00 / £19.95
314 pp. | 6 x 9

Pessimism claims an impressive following–from Rousseau, Schopenhauer, and Nietzsche, to Freud, Camus, and Foucault. Yet “pessimist” remains a term of abuse–an accusation of a bad attitude–or the diagnosis of an unhappy psychological state. Pessimism is thought of as an exclusively negative stance that inevitably leads to resignation or despair. Even when pessimism looks like utter truth, we are told that it makes the worst of a bad situation. Bad for the individual, worse for the species–who would actually counsel pessimism?

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8307.html

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 11:49:45

Dienstag = “Tuesday” auf Deutsch. It is altogether fitting that a German writer would pen a screed in praise of pessimism!

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 12:10:20

Eeyore: “Oh, great another wonderful day on Wall Street!” :-(

Eeyore is a character in the book series Winnie-the-Pooh by A.A. Milne. He is a pessimistic, gloomy, old, depressed, grey stuffed donkey who is a friend of Winnie-the-Pooh.

Comment by Big V
2008-01-07 13:26:57

He’s my favorite character from Winnie the Poo.

His best line was when someone asked him why he was standing in the middle of a clearing in the forest, and he replied, “Just in case there’s an earthquake, a tree won’t fall on me”.

He’s SOOOoooo cute.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-07 11:38:47

Stupidity know no bounds. The light bulbs that congress will force us to use are full of mercury.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=506347&in_page_id=1965

 
Comment by Ria Rhodes
2008-01-07 11:45:09

“Yeah I laugh every time! Dollar is looking good! It just shows as long as they can buy a burger for a buck, the currency crisis does not exist.”

I’ll pass. Those cheap burgers are usually no deal. Ever drive by one of those mega cattle feed lots? You can smell the stench for miles coming and going, but the real problem are all those additive they add to the cattle feed (not to mention the hormone injections). Some of this makes its way through our livers when we consume that flesh. Not a bad idea to pay a little more to know where your meat comes from.

 
Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 11:55:01

“…When the smell of sleaze begins to pollute the air,
stock prices fall to lower altitudes, even when reported earnings
would suggest much higher prices. Virtually all severe stock market
setbacks are preceded by underperformance of financial stocks, and
the selloff tends to continue until the financials start to outperform.
1987 was a classic example of this phenomenon. The sharp
underperformance of the NYSE Financials was the warning of coming
horrors. Then the TED Spread (the spread between T-Bill and
Eurodollar yields) began to widen sharply, skyrocketing to 215 before
New York opened on October 19th. (Regrettably, the NYSE Financials
Index was discontinued some years ago; it had a nearly perfect
warning record. Its successor, the Philadelphia Banking Index, seems
to have filled its shoes admirably.)

Historically, the banks start to underperform if the financial system is
under strain due to monetary tightness, dollar weakness, a plenitude
of bad loans in the banking system, or a toxic mixture of those
ingredients….”
Mr. Donald Coxe
BMO Capital Markets
April 2005
caution pdf 30 pg
http://tinyurl.com/24w7nv

Comment by vozworth
2008-01-07 19:09:56

not only is the velocity of money impacted, but also the speed and precision of the vast amount of minds outside the framework of the institutions/the whale investors/the insiders gaining strength in the financial knowledge and appication of techniques not yet fully priced in so to speak…

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 12:21:30

No. of homes (SFRs + condos) on SD county ziprealty.com currently listed at $450,000 = 160; at least 40 more are listed between $449,900 and $450,000 (”$100 off!”). Meanwhile, the median list price has dropped somewhere south of $449,900…

There are also 66 SFRs currently listed at the median price of $500,000, with at least 134 additional listings between $499,000 and $500,000.

Got Jumbo loan financing?

 
Comment by memphis
2008-01-07 12:43:33

With talk of monetary stimulus, I am still wondering how long before fixed income cost-of-living becomes a major political/presidential campaign issue. Is AARP asleep or what?

Convoluted logic - connecting dots from recent blog reading: We need to replace a “failing” Social Security system with 401Ks and other (possibly mandated) investments in the Free Market Economy. Only yes, in a truly free market economy investments can FAIL, so we have to socialize those losses. But you know, that’s the *good* kind of socialism.

Spouse’s work has started making 401K enrollment automatic for new hires going forward - you can opt out, but otherwise investment deductions in the “default” fund begin automatically. I know that there is a trend in this direction - how big? And could it make a substantive difference to the market?

The psychology being played on or preyed on here, I assume, is that it’s tougher to affirmatively decide, “Nope I don’t want to save more, and benefit from company matching, as applicable.” Gotta tell you, I’m tempted to say let’s go ahead and put the $ in, because the newly increased employer match and tax benefits would mitigate against a fair amount of market tanking, maybe? - on an index fund or such. (a fairly scary thought in itself as I mull it over - you can bet on a losing horse, but the game is sufficiently rigged that you can fare worse that the unlucky better by NOT betting.) In any case, the 1-2 punch (opt out & increase matching) looks pretty agressive, prompted - maybe? - because so many “overcompensated” workers can’t invest or can’t invest a significant amount before age 50, if that would weigh the aggregate investments in favor of these workers, vs. the “undercompensated” workers who aren’t investing.

I know this digresses a bit from housing but I’m morbidly curious about how developing sell-those-401Ks tactics figure into the bubbleverse.

 
Comment by memphis
2008-01-07 12:55:42

Forgot to add - how long before workers are legally mandated to throw into the craps table (a severely limited choice of 401k funds for the hoi polloi)? I believe this has already been proposed by H Clinton & others, only such a thing really needs to be timed with an “up” market so as to minimize opposition.

Comment by Not_In_Montana
2008-01-07 14:07:36

And then how long before the govt starts “borrowing” the 401k money…

 
Comment by Desertdweller
2008-01-07 21:14:22

My co is already doing that. severly limited choices , no match, and governed by the Mgmnt/BOD of my co.. who are not NOT financial wizards. Nor trained in such.

 
 
Comment by dagan68
2008-01-07 13:17:35

Hey txchick57 - did you see this?

25% - Not even I thought it would be that bad

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010808dnbushomesales.1ba57795.html

Ahh - but there is no bubble here - it is different here ——

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 13:46:42

No I did not! You rock! Thank you. This is nothing I didn’t know but it must kill the Mourning Snooze to have to publish it!

 
 
Comment by Lostcontrol
2008-01-07 13:40:24

In yesterday’s thread “A Massive Perception of a Market in Freefall”, I made the following comment:

Comment by Lostcontrol
2008-01-06 12:33:48

“How bad can it get? My Mother, age 79, recently explained to me that no matter how bad it gets, it will never be as bad as the early 20th century. She explained that when families of immigrants arrived in Elis Island, and the parents died on the trip, the children were put on trains heading into the Midwest. Some of those children were murdered (killed?), because the belief in those days were that these children would end up as beggars and thieves.

Just wanted to pass on an interesting sidenote.”

You responded as follows;

Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-06 15:17:11

“Some”

1, a handful, dozens, hundreds? This is not an “interesting sidenote”; it is heresay.

Losscontrol comment:
Just so you do not think I am blowing smoke, Google “Ophaned Children 1880s-1929. Concerning your questions, during the period from 1880s through 1929, approximately 150,000 children were sent by train to the midwest. My mother, age 79 was born and raised in Iowa. While source docs do not indicate the number of children killed, families from the midwest will pass down the stories from generation to generation. By the way, my mother was born in 1927.

http://www.google.com/search?q=orphan+trains+children+killed&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS234US234

Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 14:13:25

Thanks for the follow-up. It’s the killed/murdered part that is hearsay. Life is hard, Americans are generous, some people get taken advantage of, some people die. For every story of evil I bet there are 10 of love and generosity. You made it sound like a conspiracy, which always drives my antannae haywire.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 13:43:59

This nasdaq selloff looks like forced liquidation again. These damn hedge funds drove those stocks up and now they’re being puked. Ciena, one I really like, being beaten with an ugly stick. 28? I’ll buy it there.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 13:49:03

Puts gone. If the market crashes from here, I’ll have to make it on the way up. And I’m taking some March index calls to. Just a starter position.

 
Comment by Shake
2008-01-07 14:08:48

I’d stay away from telecom/network equipment in general. Its a sector that has been weak the last 7 years and many companies will die on the vine during this downturn. The industry needs a LOT more consolidation.

Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 14:19:07

I know but that sector is my speciality if I have one.

Comment by Shake
2008-01-07 14:23:23

Mine too since i work in it and have for 9 years now. Capital is drying up in the commerical paper market (based mostly on housing appreciation) and those with the least amount of cash will go out of business the quickest. Even Cisco announced a drastically slowing North American market. My guess is emerging markets will follow since they are mainly export led economies.

From the news today it looks like Paulson and Bernanke are prepared to let the free market finally do its work in the housing sector. This will reverbate thru the rest of the economy as it should have last year.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 14:53:57

Once again, the market appears to be slightly overestimating the generosity (and efficacy) of the Fed. I thought the statement by Paulson was read-between-the-lines hawkish and quite bearish for gold in the short term - I’m expecting (OK, and also hoping for - the same word in Spanish) a $20+ down day this week.

Meanwhile, the bears are heavily crowded onto the bridge leading to S&P 1300s. They’re squeezed tightly and can barely move, while the bulls look disorganized to fight the charge on the other side, although recruits may be arriving. Will the bears get the blowtorch of bad news at their backsides that breaks the logjam and sends them scurrying across?

 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 15:00:57

That would be a good thing. I know what you’re saying about the networkers btw. Damn, it has been so seductive to try to buy those to hold but you haven’t been able to do it for the past 8 years now. I have heard of a bear market but this is ridiculous!

 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 15:04:53

PIJ: I wouldn’t bet against another shock and awe rate cut very soon or some other low blow aimed at short sellers. What will be interesting then is to see how the market handles it.

 
Comment by vozworth
2008-01-07 18:38:33

mass pshycholgy wants the market to move higher. The desperation of the deflation is seizing up the “toy” market.

Ive seen two boats move from Manufacturing Facilities from Bayliner in almost one month, and at that rate, the inventory of boats already built would be something on the order of 4 years…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Hondje
2008-01-07 13:59:15

Sorry if this is a repost:

What will we do if big two go bust?
By Rolfe Winkler
January 4, 2008
They don’t know it, but taxpayers stand to lose billions as the housing bubble bursts. And in a bipartisan effort to “do something” to save the housing market, President Bush and the Democratic Congress appear set to put taxpayers on the hook for billions more.

Until now, losses in the housing world have been confined to homeowners, mortgage lenders, banks and investors in toxic mortgage securities. But by virtue of the implicit federal guarantee backing mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, U.S. taxpayers may be one of the largest mortgage lenders in the world - set to lose billions, like all the others.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.fannie04jan04,0,1654729.story

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 14:40:15

“But by virtue of the implicit federal guarantee backing mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,…”

There’s that rumor of an implicit guarantee in print once again. I thought we concluded there was no such GSE guarantee?

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 14:13:25

Why the market will not crash and why I am going to go back to college!

“If you’ve been around awhile, you’ve probably heard of the hemline-markets theory. First introduced by George Taylor, an economist at Wharton Business School, the theory promotes the view that when women’s hemlines are rising, stocks tend to go up as well.” Kirkreport - old news -from the ’60s
todays news
“There’s a direct inverse relationship between how revealing their theme is and how drunk they get,” he told ABC News. “At lingerie parties they drink the most. … They have to drink more if they wear less because they have to lower their inhibitions to be seen wearing that out.”…

“There are these girls walking down the street, and you can see their butts hanging out of their skirts.”
ABC News
http://tinyurl.com/yta6mv
How high will the market go on this one!

 
Comment by Shake
2008-01-07 14:27:48

test

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 14:35:12

Gold is the new global currency
Published: January 7 2008 19:05 | Last updated: January 7 2008 19:05

There was a time when gold was money. In today’s uncertain world, the yellow metal is back in fashion. Bullion prices rose to a record nominal high after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan added to nervousness about the world economy. Part of gold’s allure is its traditional status as a safe haven. It is seen as a store of value when everything else seems risky. But the bigger drivers behind the rising spot price are a depreciating dollar and the prospect of negative US real interest rates.

A better way to think of gold may be as central bankers used to before America dropped the gold standard: not as a commodity, but as another currency. As long as the dollar stays weak, gold’s bull run will last.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/301c112e-bd51-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F301c112e-bd51-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fhome%2Fus

Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 15:50:46

Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world.

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. … This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists’ tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists’ antagonism toward the gold standard.

Alan Greenspan

 
 
Comment by Hoz
2008-01-07 14:37:36

At the AEA meetings in New Orleans last weekend

STEVEN D. LEVITT AND SUDHIR ALLADI VENKATESH presented a new preliminary paper on the economics and market for street prostitution, (this works well with their previous paper “AN ECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF A DRUG-SELLING GANG’S FINANCES”) - All research was done in Chicago.
As Andrew Leigh summed up the primary points:

“Very few prostitutes get arrested. Levitt told us that a Chicago street prostitute is more likely to have sex with an on-duty police officer than to get arrested by a police officer.

Prostitutes who work with pimps have higher wages and better conditions (largely because pimps drum up supply).

Reflecting this, many of the prostitutes who didn’t have pimps asked Levitt and Venkatesh if they could please link them up with pimps. L&V planned a randomised experiment (randomly assigning prostitutes to pimps), but before they could carry it out, the pimps got angry at Venkatesh and told him that he would be killed if he returned.

Most women work 11 hours a week, and charge $40-80 per trick. Including waiting time, they make $25-40 per hour. This compares with the $7-10 per hour they make in the formal sector.

Levitt cited evidence that in the 1930s-50s, a very large share of men had their first sexual experience with a prostitute. With the rise of premarital sex, this is no longer true, so the market that’s left today is much seedier than in the past.

On 4 July, there are large family reunions in Washington Square Park. The authors use this as an exogenous demand shock, driving up demand by 60% and prices by 30%. This suggests that supply is quite elastic, adjusting on three margins - higher labour supply by existing prostitutes, in-migration by prostitutes from other areas, and ‘temporary prostitutes’ joining the market.”

Much more exciting than reading Excuses for Federal Reserve Board Policy Actions (Kohn). And how many economists get threatened with death if they show their face again?

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 14:42:01

My favorite Levitt study is the one that shows Chicago-area Realtors took a longer time to sell their own homes and held out for significantly higher prices than they did for their seller-clients.

 
Comment by txchick57
2008-01-07 15:02:24

I kinda like it when the Kohn-Heads show up.

 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-01-07 15:26:13

pre-dict-ion 2008:
The porn industry in San Fernando Valley will be runneth over with “Talent”…leading to “lower” production costs. ;-)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-08 00:06:01

“…large family reunions in Washington Square Park…driving up demand by 60% and prices by 30%.”

Aren’t family values just wonderful?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 16:21:51

Moral hazard, Keynesian style:

1) The fiscal authorities believe they face no hard budget constraint, as the monetary authorities can always dilute the real value of outstanding debt by running the printing press.

2) The monetary authorities believe they can always reflate the economy by running the printing press.

3) Would-be savers become full-fledged participants in the asset markets, rationally believing the prices of whatever long-lived assets they buy will always go up.

What is wrong with this picture?

Comment by vozworth
2008-01-07 18:29:54

that a failure of the participants ability to “believe” prudence as safe care for the greatest good, when the the greatest good of the individuals not “believing” produces the the greatest harm to the non-participants.

 
 
Comment by vozworth
2008-01-07 19:02:09

“SANTA ANA, Calif., Jan. 7 /PRNewswire/ — G REIT, Inc. (the “Company”) today announced that the Company intends to enter into a liquidating trust agreement (the “Trust Agreement”) on or about January 22, 2008, for the purpose of winding up the Company’s affairs and liquidating its assets. It is currently anticipated that, on or about January 28, 2008, the Company will transfer its then remaining assets to the Trustees (as defined below) of the G REIT Liquidating Trust (the “Liquidating Trust”). The Liquidating Trust will also assume the Company’s then remaining liabilities. As of January 22, 2008 (the “Record Date”), the Company’s stock transfer books will be closed. The formation of the Liquidating Trust is in accordance with the Company’s Plan of Liquidation, which was previously approved by the Company’s stockholders (the “Plan of Liquidation”).”

let the liquidations to/from the insiders commence.

Comment by vozworth
2008-01-07 19:14:57

this means, share holders need not apply, unless doing so in the form of a debt holder…..thanks for coming out.

 
 
Comment by bill in Maryland
2008-01-07 19:24:53

A quick survey by just humble me. CNBC and Fox News seem to say that Obama has the edge over Hillary. Personally, I think it’s way too early to make the call. This smells like a setup. I don’t know Obama’s stands. I do know Hillary is for class warfare. Perhaps the corporate media are building up Obama for a fall when a Republican can beat him.

They also say McCain is leading in NH. McCain - also a class warfare type. He was against the 2001 tax cuts and quoted left wing think tanks to support his stand. I know, I wrote a letter to his office supporting the tax cuts and his office sent me the reply, with information from the Brookings Institute. Also McCain was a champion for the illegal aliens and wanted to make them all citizens, which means automatic dependents on U.S. taxpayers. The fool should have done the opposite: sponsor a bill to forbid taxpayer money to educate illegal aliens’ children and to forbid taxpayer funding of health care for illegals. Arizona is doing the right thing that stupid McCain should have backed all along. Stupid Republican socialists!

Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 20:30:30

It’s way too early to call either race, no matter what happens in N.H. Obama is a neophyte with little history - one screwup will cost him severely. 99+% of the U.S. population hasn’t had any input. Personally, I’d like to see BO crash and burn and have Hillary fight it out against a good Republican challenger - I’m thinking anybody but Huckabee or McCain.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 23:28:40

HC’s nomination futures price is going down faster than the housing market…

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_DConv08.cfm

 
 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-01-07 20:38:54

I’m becoming less enamored of Jim Rogers. He used to avoid the media spotlight and so when you heard his opinion a couple times a year it was always worth listening to.

Now he’s doubled the size of his bow ties and gives long interviews to every Tom, Dick, and Harry, repeating the same thing over and over and using cliched phrases. Please - go lay low in Singapore for awhile and come tell us what you think next Christmas.

Let me be a woman for 30 seconds: why is it that 60-ish men, once they’ve lost their sense of humor and their testosterone is all but used up, seem so determined to overstay a fading spotlight?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 21:18:43

MONDAY, DECEMBER 31, 2007
BARRON’S COVER

Farmland prices have soared, and bulls say underlying trends will keep the boom going. Sound familiar?

By JIM MCTAGUE

YOU’VE LIVED THROUGH THE TECH-STOCK BUBBLE. The dot-com bubble. The residential-real-estate bubble. Now, get ready for the cropland bubble. - At year-end 2007, farms — the latest count shows that the U.S. has 2,089,790 — are what Miami condos and San Diego McMansions were at year-end 2004: properties so hot that they’re likely to have a meltdown in their future.

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB119882116265055389.html?mod=b_hpp_9_0002_b_this_weeks_magazine_home_top

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-07 23:24:15

Another golden parachute is about to open on Wall Street…

Bear Stearns CEO plans to step down
By Ben White and David Wighton in New York
Published: January 8 2008 00:46 | Last updated: January 8 2008 01:18

Jimmy Cayne has told the board of Bear Stearns that he plans to step down as chief executive of the Wall Street bank, which has suffered heavy losses in the credit market turmoil.

Mr Cayne, 73, hopes to remain as non-executive chairman and hand over the chief executive role to Alan Schwartz, Bear’s president. Bear Stearns directors are expected to meet soon to discuss the matter and an announcement could come as soon as Tuesday, people close to the matter said.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/90218646-bd81-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-08 00:18:51

Posted above, but FT limits access, while yahoo.com makes available the whole article in its glorius entirety…

America’s inflated asset prices must fall
By Stephen Roach
Mon Jan 7, 1:05 PM ET

America’s aversion toward saving did not appear out of thin air. Waves of asset appreciation - first equities and, more recently, residential property - convinced citizens that a new era was at hand. Reinforced by a monstrous bubble of cheap credit, there was little perceived need to save the old-fashioned way - out of income. Assets became the preferred vehicle of choice.

With one bubble begetting another, America’s imbalances rose to epic proportions. Despite generally subpar income generation, private consumption soared to a record 72 per cent of real gross domestic product in 2007. Household debt hit a record 133 per cent of disposable personal income. And income-based measures of personal saving moved back into negative territory in late 2007.

None of these trends is sustainable. It is only a question of when they give way and what it takes to spark a long overdue rebalancing. A sharp decline in asset prices is necessary to rebalance the US economy. It is the only realistic hope to shift the mix of saving away from asset appreciation back to that supported by income generation. That could entail as much as a 20-30 per cent decline in overall US housing prices and a related deflating of the bubble of cheap and easy credit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ft/20080107/bs_ft/fto010720081324550910

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-08 00:23:04

Stephen Roach:

“It is going to be a very painful process to break the addiction to asset-led behaviour. No one wants recessions, asset deflation and rising unemployment. But this has always been the potential endgame of a bubble-prone US economy. The longer America puts off this reckoning, the steeper the ultimate price of adjustment. Tough as it is, the only sensible way out is to let markets lead the way. That is what the long overdue bursting of America’s asset and credit bubbles is all about.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ft/20080107/bs_ft/fto010720081324550910

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-08 00:32:42

TxChick — how’s your post-holiday appetite? :-)

P.S. Technically, stock market allocations are risky investments, not savings.

BILL DONOGHUE
Into the woods
Commentary: Don’t be a sitting duck or the bear will eat you
By Bill Donoghue, MarketWatch
Last update: 6:03 p.m. EST Jan. 7, 2008

SEATTLE (MarketWatch) — The stock market opened this year in trouble. The gains the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index made in 2007 were just about wiped out in the first three trading days of 2008.
Sometimes you eat the bear; sometimes the bear eats you. If you’re expecting a “January effect” rally, remember the bear looks lean and hungry and is after your savings.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/dont-sitting-duck-bear-eat/story.aspx?guid=%7BECF29A1E%2D5228%2D4343%2D86D1%2DC167AA532658%7D&dist=sp_inthis

 
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