When The Music Stops, What Is Left?
The Herald Tribune reports from Florida. “When the market goes south, the deals come out. Nathan Benderson is hoping to jump-start sales at his Port Charlotte retirement community by offering massive rebates that could top $100,000. ‘What we’re doing, nobody else can beat it,’ Benderson said. ‘Things being the way they are, we wanted to do something that would get people’s attention.’”
“Benderson has about 600 of an eventual 1,000 homes built at Kings Gate. The development was humming along like clockwork during the boom. Retirees and investors could not snap up the properties fast enough, some at prices topping $400,000.”
“But when the bottom fell out, the flood of potential buyers dried to a trickle.”
“‘We have seen all kinds of things in the past year,’ said Jack McCabe, a Florida real estate analyst. ‘I’m surprised they’re not giving away ponies at some places.’”
“‘The reality is that people can afford only so much for housing, and that’s where prices have to be’ or a ‘huge inventory’ can build up, McCabe said. ‘We’re coming back now from the delusional, hallucinogenic stage of the boom.’”
“One reason for the bleak landscape is that the local economy has been structured almost entirely around real estate, said Dennis Black, an appraiser who works in Charlotte County. When the bubble burst, the jobs started drying up.”
“‘We are a one trick pony,’ Black said. ‘We just don’t have anything else to fall back on right now.’”
“In another sign of the turbulence in the banking industry, Stonegate Bank has decided to pull out of Sarasota less than four months after opening. Six of the bank’s eight local employees already have been let go, including market President Steve Putnam.”
“‘I would chalk it up to the poor economic conditions that we’re in here,’ Putnam said Wednesday.”
“Banks doing business in Sarasota, Manatee and Charlotte counties have been battered by the real estate slump. Profits are down, bad loans are rising, and many banks are tightening credit lines. ‘It’s definitely a sign of the economic times that we’re in,’ Bank of Commerce CEO Charlie Murphy said of the closing.”
“Lawmakers face an additional $2 billion budget shortfall and a plummet in housing prices not seen since the Great Depression. Lawmakers already cut about $1 billion in October. House budget chairman Ray Sansom told lawmakers in a memo Wednesday that the budget will have to be cut by an additional $2 billion this year.”
“Amy Baker, the coordinator of the Office of Economic and Demographic Research, said that the state’s excess supply of homes is more than 200,000 and that it may take nearly two years simply to sell the excess homes. She said prices are expected to continue falling into 2009, with a total reduction of home values in Florida likely to be greater than the 15 percent expected nationally.”
The News Press. “Call it the lure of the shoreline: Properties on or near the beach still sell, even in a slower market. The number of sales and sales prices have dropped a bit, but the activity is still steady, Realtors say. And deals abound.”
“Clay Cason of Florida Gulf Coast Realty had two closings in December with another one in the works. One of his clients paid $1.225 million for a three-bedroom, two-bath house on Fort Myers Beach. The 1950s-era house is on the water and has an assessed value of more than $1.6 million.”
“‘Right now you’re looking at 2002, 2003 prices,’ Realtor Isabella Wells said. ‘Homes priced $2 million to $1.5 million still sell, but what really sells the most are the properties from $250,000 to $400,000. Those were in the $500,000 or $600,000 range two year ago.’”
The St Petersburg Times. “Tony Polito, preparing to deliver a not-so-healthy housing report to Tampa Bay area builders, likened his role to that of a doctor about to deliver a painful shot to the patient’s backside.”
“‘I was going to play the funeral march,’ Polito joked as he spoke Tuesday at the yearly economic forecast of the Tampa Bay Builders Association.”
“With a healthy balance between supply and demand about a year away, Polito urged builders to create a sense of urgency with the home-buying public. ‘For the home market, it’s all about undecided buyers,’ said Polito.”
“Polito’s report was a mixed bag. The region suffers from a glut of vacant developed home lots. A healthy supply would last builders 18 to 24 months. We’ve got a 40-month supply.”
“Builders compete with acres of new homes bought by investors during the boom. And home prices have outstripped incomes. In 2002, 77 percent of new homes sold for less than $200,000. In 2007, only 21 percent of new homes fell into that category.”
“‘Sales and marketing are the two key words,’ he said. ‘It’s a matter of exciting the buyer.’”
The Miami Herald. “In 2007…the Club at Brickell Bay ranked first among condominiums in Miami-Dade and Broward counties with the most units in foreclosure. Borrowers owe lenders more than $42 million.”
“As the region’s housing market sputters into the new year, a collection of largely unoccupied new towers are straining under hundreds of millions of dollars in defaulted mortgages. In the 20 buildings in Miami-Dade and Broward counties with the largest numbers of units in foreclosure, loans in default totaled more than $271.8 million, according to a Bal Harbour real estate consulting firm.”
“For the 36-story Vue at Brickell, its 65 units in foreclosure represented 20 percent of the complex. Two blocks away, the deluxe Jade Residences at Brickell Bay topped the list with highest dollar value of mortgage defaults of $60.7 million.”
“Widespread mortgage fraud, involving inflated appraisals and faux buyers, also led to the dizzying rise in defaults. ‘These buildings are notorious because the fraud was so prevalent,’ said real estate broker Lucas Lechuga.”
“The Club at Brickell Bay had 128 units listed for sale in the South Florida MLS on Monday. Thirty of those were listed as short sales. An 818 square-foot unit, which sold in June of 2006 for $430,000, was listed Monday for $220,000, according to Lechuga.”
“Lisa Magill, a lawyer (who) represents community associations, said she knew of associations struggling to cover expenses because more than 10 percent of their residents were behind on fees.”
“‘In September, we started recommending associations include a line item in their budgets to account for anticipated bad debt from noncontributing residents,’ Magill said.”
“Earlier this year, the Club at Brickell Bay lost its cable and Internet service because the condo association fell behind on payments. That doesn’t worry Alex Fornet, who has lived at The Club for two years. He said he’s there for the long haul.”
“‘Hopefully, when we get all these issues with the foreclosures we’ll prosper in the end and profit from our investments,’ Fornet said. ‘This is Manhattan, it’s the future Manhattan, so we’re all sitting real good.’”
The Daily Business Review. “When Shannon Ford moved from New York early last year, she began looking around for a condo to buy in downtown Miami. She…soon learned about the potential cost-saving benefits of auctions.”
“Last month she raised her bidding card and, at $185,000, became the top bidder for a one-bedroom condo in the Isola Island Residences on Brickell Key off Brickell Avenue. The closing is scheduled for later this month.”
“An increasing number of South Floridians are losing their homes as lenders recalculate adjustable rate mortgages. More than 5,300 foreclosure filings were recorded in December, for a fourth-quarter total of 14,527, according to Daily Business Review data. The region recorded less than 12,000 foreclosures in both the first and second quarters of 2007.”
“Veteran auctioneer Martin Higgenbotham of Lakeland, recalls March 1983 when he spent days in a tent trying to auction 225 condos at Biscayne Cove, a high-rise building overlooking Biscayne Bay in North Miami Beach. Units were sold at discounts of 30 to 45 cents on the dollar, he said last week.”
“‘I have been through six economic downturns since 1959 and it is always the same,’ he said. ‘This time, too, you will get 30 percent to 45 percent discount of the retail price.’”
The Palm Beach Post. “As organizers ready for this year’s Stuart Boat Show, area dealers are bringing in boats, putting up tents and holding their breath. ‘All you can do is hope,’ said Kevin Lindsay, owner of Lindsay Marine in Stuart. ‘The boat business right now, for a lot of guys, is really tough.’”
“‘Right now, you’re not going to have the kind of sales you had two or three years ago when everyone thought their house was worth a half-million dollars,’ said Lindsay.”
“‘Nobody’s selling anything,’ said George Field, president of the marine industries association. ‘Housing bubble prices, that soaked up a lot of boat money. There isn’t that much discretionary money around. The boat business has gone to sleep.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “Amid the growing mortgage-debt crisis, personal bankruptcies nearly doubled in Metro Orlando last year, according to court figures released this week.”
“‘I have doctors, Realtors, mortgage brokers and all kinds of people who had rental properties who are in trouble now,’ said Andrew Baron, a consumer-bankruptcy lawyer in Orlando. ‘These are people who never dreamed they’d be facing this kind of situation. And they’ll resist until the bitter end before they file bankruptcy.’”
“Of the district’s largest metro areas, Orlando topped Tampa (77.6 percent) and Jacksonville (43.7 percent) in the pace of increase. Overall, the three divisions recorded 26,424 bankruptcy cases, up 72.7 percent over the previous year.”
“The rich as well as the not-so-rich…bought second homes (and sometimes even more) with the intent to quickly resell, or ‘flip,’ them at a profit. When the housing market collapsed, they could find no buyer, leaving them strapped with debt, falling prices and little hope of refinancing.”
“‘We know of a lot of folks who own more properties now than they ever thought they’d still have,’ said Dan Moisand, a certified financial planner in Maitland. ‘There are many stories out there about flippers who are stuck all over the place.’”
“‘It is not exactly a rarity that well-educated, high-income professionals will find themselves in a financial bind,’ he said. ‘Just because someone has made good money doesn’t mean they know what to do with it. They may be doctors, lawyers or whatever, but that doesn’t make them a good financial manager.’”
“Another prominent feature in the latest wave of bankruptcy is youth, according to Rosanna Jacobsen, a financial-literacy advocate and local executive with Colonial Bank.”
“‘You just see more people in their 20s and 30s going into bankruptcy these days,’ said Jacobsen. ‘Too many young people are uneducated and unprepared to manage money, and that’s why we’re seeing more of them in debt and in bankruptcy.’”
The News Journal. “The worst is over for the Volusia-Flagler real estate slump, but prices will continue to stagnate for three more years, an economist predicts. Hank Fishkind said his analysis found ‘very little price erosion’ occurred in most markets last year.”
“‘Housing prices aren’t like the price of barbecue grills at Wal-Mart where you simply mark them down at the end of the summer,’ he said. ‘People are very reluctant or unable to cut the price of their homes.’”
“He said the Census has estimated the state grew by 195,000, while his own estimate is 260,000, but demographers at the University of Florida have put the growth at 600,000.”
“‘They based their numbers on building permits, which shot up last year,’ Fishkind said. ‘But a lot of those houses built are sitting empty.’”
The Christian Science Monitor. “After three years showing houses in Atlanta’s hilly suburbs, Dee McMahon is finished with real estate. Yanking up her custom-made ‘For Sale’ signs in her North Lake neighborhood rattled her ego, she admits. But when Ms. McMahon closed her final sale in late November, the mother of two felt a swell of relief.”
“‘Now I can finally get my own house back together,’ she says. ‘I’m nervous about the future, but I feel happy.’”
“McMahon is one of thousands of real estate agents across the U. S. wandering with mixed emotions and uncertain prospects through the debris of a real estate gold rush.”
“As many train for new careers, return to old ones, or wait tables until prices rebound, the plight of the real estate agent reveals the human dimension of how loose lending, raw opportunity, and self-determination produced a housing bust that has stunned the U.S. economy.”
“‘They’ve tasted success and big money, and now their standard of living has been rocked and reality has set in,’ says John Baen, a real estate professor at the University of North Texas in Denton. ‘The whole [economy] has been built on real estate. When the music stops, what is left?’”
“Evidence is growing that agents, especially in hard-hit markets like Florida, California, and Georgia, are closing up shop in large numbers, experts say.”
“In Cape Coral, Fla., where only 30 percent of agents sold even a single home last year, real estate agents are ‘dropping out’ daily, says local realtor Ginette Young.”
“In Georgia, realty ranks had swelled to 48,000 at the peak of the market. ‘There’s a lot of money being spent [on real estate classes] teaching agents how to waste a year of their life,’ says Atlanta agent Sandy Koza.”
“‘It’s a gold-rush mentality,’ says Michael Davis, an economist at Southern Methodist University.”
“He has been struck by how many agents, brokers, and investors, acting against conventional wisdom of portfolio management, converted large percentages of cash holdings into only a single and somewhat risky investment: property.”
“‘I don’t know whether they’re ignorant or optimistic, perhaps a little of both,’ says Dr. Davis.”
market President Steve Putnam.”
what’s that ?
None knows. No wonder he was let go.
In banking these days what used to be a district manager or regional manager is now a “regional president” or some similar puffed-up title. For example, a bank with branches in Kansas and Missouri will have a “Kansas President” and a “Missouri President.” I don’t think it’s an important position. The big decisions are made at the home office.
It’s cheaper to give someone a title than a raise.
“With a healthy balance between supply and demand about a year away, Polito urged builders to create a sense of urgency with the home-buying public. ‘For the home market, it’s all about undecided buyers,’ said Polito.”
In other words, continue to lie to the general public as you have been….
“.. prices will continue to stagnate for three more years…”
There not going to stagnate - there going to drop!
Big Bob…..Your in Chico correct ??
is that a spillover ? sorry ,that’s so 2007
he boat business has gone to sleep.’”
The boat manufacturers are to blame. Some 24′ center console (the most popular style in Florida) boats have list prices over $100,000, not including electronics. That’s ridiculous. A 250 HP outboard costs more than a decent new car. Only “free” home equity money allowed them to get away with those prices.
I just can’t imagine spending that kind of money on a boat. You could pay for a lifetime of vacations with the interest earned on a 100K CD.
Neither boats nor houses are priced right for a credit squeeze.
Here is the link to repossessed boat sales outlet , the dealership is located near Detroit
http://www.harrisonmarine.com/
“McMahon is one of thousands of real estate agents across the U. S. wandering with mixed emotions and uncertain prospects through the debris of a real estate gold rush.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa73jTtAVXU&feature=related
“Earlier this year, the Club at Brickell Bay lost its cable and Internet service because the condo association fell behind on payments. That doesn’t worry Alex Fornet, who has lived at The Club for two years. He said he’s there for the long haul.”
“‘Hopefully, when we get all these issues with the foreclosures we’ll prosper in the end and profit from our investments,’ Fornet said. ‘This is Manhattan, it’s the future Manhattan, so we’re all sitting real good.’”
This idiot must have failed geography in school. Miami is not Manhattan, never has and never will be. There are thousands of high paying jobs in Manhattan, cabana boys on the beach in Miami do not make $200,000 a year.
Sounds more like the future Havana from here.
Spend a few days there, without hearing one person speak English, you’ll realize there’s no “future” about it. When I lived in Miami, we’d go to the Keys every weekend. I called it “spending my weekends in the United States”.
SFC -
i’m thinking about going to the Keys around Easter .
Good time of year to go?
That’s a great time to go (actually today would be a great time, it’s beautiful outside). It’s usually windy in March, though. Wind is only important if you’re going fishing, but that’s one of the main reasons many people go there. It is for me.
SFC….To piggy back on what Philly asked….When are the best months to go to the Keys ??
Well it depends what you want to do. If you plan to do a lot of boating, it’s usually a lot less windy in the Summer. A downside would be that if there’s a hurricane warning, you have to leave (not that you’d want to stay). Of course it’s hot during the Summer, although not as bad as the rest of Florida. Dolphin fishing (the fish, not Flipper) in May is great. I also like early fall, as it’s a little less humid but the water is still very warm, and it’s less crowded. If you just want to boat, fish, and relax there’s no reason to go all the way to Key West. If you want a park the car the whole vacation, and walk from great bar/restaurant to great bar/restaurant, while your wife goes shopping, Key West is the place. Key West also has beaches, while the rest of the Keys have very few, although Bahia Honda in Marathon is really beautiful.
Perfect…Thanks for the response…
Mr. Fornet is the vice-present of the Club at Brickell Bay condo association board. It would have been nice if that little tidbit had been disclosed.
http://www.theclubatbrickellbay.com/assoc/index.asp
Vice president’s not very impressive. There are only two people that actually live there. The rest of the board is cardboard cutouts of movie stars they stole from Blockbuster. John Wayne is the secretary.
SFC
ahahhaaa - funny !
“With a healthy balance between supply and demand about a year away, Polito urged builders to create a sense of urgency with the home-buying public. ‘For the home market, it’s all about undecided buyers,’ said Polito.”
Joe 6pack’s present dilemma is whether or not to buy beer or cigarettes or pay his credit card minimum, kids shoes etc.
Not ‘a sense of urgency’ to buy a house.
About a year away, huh? Does he have some info that I don’t have? We have 3-5 years of inventory in most of S. FL right now.. Is there a hurricane coming that is going to destroy 1/3rd of all the housing in FL (which, frankly, might be what it takes to get the inventory back in line)?
This guy is absolutely out of his mind with “1 year” until the balance is restored. We would need to have 3X the number of sales (compared to last year), and no more inventory come on the market at all in PBC to just get down to 1-2 years of inventory sitting.
“Does he have some info that I don’t have?”
Yes, I think he’s excluding homes under $250,000 and over $251,000.
In 2008 there could be more houses going into foreclosure in South Florida every month, than are sold. Hard to reduce inventory that way!
Problem is that if a hurricane comes..the people whose homes got destroyed will leave the state..so many are currently underinsured, looking for a way out or are underwater…
Then with the increase of insurance costs..Fl will be in even a worse situation…it took 10 years before the areas hit hardest by Andrew truly recovered…New Orleans isn’t even close…
Selling my 2 homes in 2005, 95% of the proceeds went into silver/gold stocks. Been renting a home for .5% of the purchase price per month.
Advised 12 people around me to do the same. They all laughed and told me to remove the tinfoil hat.
What a wonderful few years it has been!
You can rightly quote the poet Browning:
God’s in his heaven-All’s right with the world
‘Selling my 2 homes in 2005′
-Congratulations, nice move.
Now, move the heck out of Gold before it puts you in tears.
Wow - sounds like you played it right. Good job (seriously).
Be careful with the Shadenfreude though. One can get a dislocated elbow by patting one’s self on the back too hard.
where are you? Having housing prices at 200x rent here in SW Colorado would require almost a 50% haircut.
I saw an episode on “What’s My House Worth?” a couple of days ago and they were talking to the “owners” of a $2million place on the ocean near Miami (with 2 small children).
He said he was selling the place because his monthly carrying costs were $13,000, but he could rent a comparable place for $4,000/month.
Sounds like the common public is starting to realize this fact, and even HGTV is featuring people who’s sole reason for selling their deam house is because renting is so much cheaper.
I saw that episode, too. I really wondered, though, why anyone would buy that house for more than $13,000 a month (since their “appraisal” was higher than their mortgage) if any potential buyrs could also rent in that neighborhood for $4,000 per month. And I wondered why the homeowners were acting so smug, like a) they couldn’t figure that out themselves and b) an appraisal is the same as a sale.
That’s been a big curiosity for me about a lot of those shows, “What’s My House Worth,” “Flip This House,” whatever - why do they act so ecstatic when a realtor tells them their house is worth X, but they never actualy sell it?
This sounds rather coutnerintuitive. If the owners are selling because renting is so much cheaper, then by that reasoning, nobody should be BUYING that house — buyers should be renting too. Meaning, the owners are obliged to find a Greater Fool, or else “My House Is Worth…” a lot less than the HGTV guy thinks it’s worth.
What’s surprising is that HGTV is allowing the dirty little secret of renting to get out to the Greater Fools, where it might sink in, rendering them Greater Fools no longer. Greater Fools don’t read Bloomberg or iTulip, but surely they are watching HGTV.
For a brief time, we were a nation of house snapping turtles…
“Benderson has about 600 of an eventual 1,000 homes built at Kings Gate. The development was humming along like clockwork during the boom. Retirees and investors could not snap up the properties fast enough, some at prices topping $400,000.”
One of things that these builders fail to acknowledge is that their “build it they will come,” mentality has now created more homes built than is needed..it will take YEARS to reduce the inventory..unless prices fall so low that buying that new home makes more sense than the resale…
I don’t think the hallucinogenic stage is over yet.
It would appear that many are still seeing ponies everywhere!
The way things mushroomed up, made a mockery of economix.
The way things mushroomed up, made a mockery of economix.
i’ll have a double-double, grilled onions… please.
I blogged the WSJ article about abandoned horses having to be rescued about 4 days ago. Its actually no joke that they should be giving away ponies. People cannot afford to feed their horses sans MEW at today’s grain prices. This is one sad part of the downside of the bubble. People are releasing horses into the everglades in hopes they can fend for themselves.
Got popcorn?
Neil
It is not the grain prices it is the price of hay that is making things so hard. I pay between 14.00 and 17.00 per bale for T&A hay.
Most people in Florida doesn’t feed straight oats they buy a bagged mixed feed. I pay under 10.00 per bag for a good quality feed.
One bale of hay will feed a horse for a week and a bag of feed lasts me about two weeks.
I know many people that would take these horses to their pastures to be spared a horrible fate of trying to survive in the Everglades.
Unless you like the taste of horse meat, I suggest feeding herefords instead. BTW, local hay here is about $55 per 1000 lb bale.
Yes!! I’m old enough to remember when horse meat was sold in various butcher shops around town….Americans have this stigma about ‘certain’ things!!!
Eg…Houses can NEVER go down in price
Most of those morons don’t need a horse any more than they need the SUV and horse trailer to pull it. Owning horses and hobby farms was a fad. They next thing they won’t be able to afford is the SUV followed by the farm iteself.
Sad sad sad.
Couldn’t help myself, had to copy this post from yesterday’s Winter blog.
report from the trenches, fri jan 4th, 2008.
i’ve just spent 3 days helping a friend with her rental property mortgages, three properties, roughly 333k each, ~ $1.M total, valued at that at the peak, just after she bought them.
——————————————————————————–
this year the values have dropped, to about 200k each, 600k total, so she is “upside-down” on the mortgages, owing more than the properties are now worth.
in addition, most of the adjustable mortgages have reset to higher payments (almost double), so her monthly payments have almost doubled.
then, a year ago, the county and city got rid of lots of their illegals, and there went half her tenants. the other half left for other apartments with the same space, but newly cheaper rents.
no current tenants.
that’s just the background, from the last year.
———
now, in the past week, she has been visiting all the banks and mortgage holders.
she is looking for an un-reset on the adjustable mortgage, or new mortgages with longer term/lower payments, mortgage stall, 1 year interest-only, etc etc., anything.
but the total result, 7 mortgages / 7 banks: 0.
not one bank is willing to to budge a dollar on their loans.
even though it is obvious that soon they will get the properties back in foreclosure, and have to take the loss on the value themselves.
one bank had a loan-mitigation department, they get if off their books, where the loan goes to the county or someone private, found by the seller,separate application, depending on the acceptance by the new holder.
if she could find a buyer at the old price, they would let her sell it.
but no other relief is available. not one dollar.
so, in conclusion, she will soon, in 2 months, be a homeless ex-millionaire, down from $1M on paper to $0, and there is NOTHING the banks are willing or able to do to help her.
so, despite all the candidate and government promises, NOTHING is available now to help people.
—–
she has temporarily moved into a vacant apartment owned by her brother, which also will enter foreclosure in 2 months.
Spare me the violins please.
She was just plain greedy and stupid and gets all she deserves.
Let her rot.
agreed. no tears shed from me. let her go to a homeless shelter & get a taste of how the other half of america lives.
and it’s not the addicts/drunks/junkies that do not want to get out of poverty but the innocent children of these people that break yer heart, as their childhood is lost to the meaness of the streets.
No tears but can’t help but extrapolate how many times this crap happened across the country……Every ya ho wants to be Donald Trump….Every ya ho thinks they are Sam Zell….Just do the $99. seminar gig and presto, you’re a real estate entrepreneur….Real estate as a investment vehicle has been poisoned by all this….
See, if they would have bought the $129 seminar things would be much different. They would have 30 less dollars.
Hey, scdave are from s.c.? I have been hearing that myrtle beach is in a major slump. I love it there and go every month or so, not sure If I`m going to buy there or not. Assuming you are from s.c.
Lane
No….Santa Clara, Cali….95051
Did she have any of her own skin inthe game? If not, it is banks loss. Ruined credit will probably be not a concern for most people like her, considering that their game is over for good.
You are right about the ruined credit..3 years out of BK..you can own a home again..1 year out of Foreclosure and you can own again…
And you know that once this housing situation blows over..you will see a slew of commercials calling the fly back to the spider…”Hey we can get you a loan…”
I use to love that commercial that featured Bob on his riding lawnmover, showing off his leased car, country club membership and the house he couldn’t afford…”I’m in debt to my eyeballs.. somebody help me!”
I use to love that commercial that featured Bob on his riding lawnmover, showing off his leased car, country club membership and the house he couldn’t afford…”I’m in debt to my eyeballs.. somebody help me!”
I’ll bet “Bob” goes by many names now.
ANSWER ME THIS!!!!
Why do you need credit???…I lived all thru the 1980’s, paying cash for everything ,”"”everything”"”…always had $500-$1000 cash in my wallet, and didn’t owe anybody anything…
I got out of debt in 1976, and said “”NEVER again!!!
she has temporarily moved into a vacant apartment owned by her brother, which also will enter foreclosure in 2 months.
so the McTrumpness is congenital
She coulda tried this:
NEW YORK (Fortune) — Faced with foreclosure on her Russellville, Indiana home, Christina Snyder allegedly concocted the kind of plan that now has insurance executives on edge.
According to the county prosecutor, the 31-year-old Snyder allegedly offered to pay a neighbor $5,000 to help her burn down her house and make it look like a botched rape attempt - all in order to claim $80,000 in insurance money. Snyder wanted the neighbor to bind her hands in duct tape, write “whore” on her shirt, and then help her escape once the blaze was set, the prosecutor says. The neighbor demurred, instead reporting Snyder to police.
whiskey tango foxtrot.
How does someone complete a thought like that?
Stupidity is genetic.
then, a year ago, the county and city got rid of lots of their illegals, and there went half her tenants.
Nativists: be careful what you wish for. You may just get it. Not to say that border control isn’t important, but simply removing people from the economy en masse tends to be a bad thing.
But the alternative (letting them stay) is even worse.
THIS WOMAN IS NOT A MILLIONAIRE, AND NEVER WAS!!!!!!!!!! If I scream this one inch away from this idiot’s ear, do you think it will get through?
It is NOT “nativism” which is very very thinly veiled as an insult meaning ‘racist.’
It is the fact that these people are breaking the law. Then then break more laws (identity theft, forgery, fraud…..all serious felonies.)
Their complete disrespect for the law and the rights of others (like not having your ID stolen or your Social Security number appropriated for their use) clearly shows why uneducated, ignorant and unskilled peasants are not a benefit to the US. They are so stupid and ammoral that they see nothing wrong with using stolen ID or ‘making up’ a Social Security number that turns out to be that of a real person.
then, a year ago, the county and city got rid of lots of their illegals,…
If only that would happen around these parts…
Looks to me like she is pretty lucky. Has gone from a negative net worth to -$400 million to zero. Look at all the taxes, insurance and maintenance she will avoid thanks to the banks taking these dogs off her hands. She never had a million net worth, just a sloppy accountant.
err -$400 thousand– these big numbers fog my mind
“‘We are a one trick pony,’ Black said. ‘We just don’t have anything else to fall back on right now.’”
play dead, now.
“state’s excess supply of homes is more than 200,000″
I’m dusting off my blackboard to do this math; how many other states have more than 200K?
Not to worry the incoming hoards will take care of that. “He said the Census has estimated the state grew by 195,000, while his own estimate is 260,000, but demographers at the University of Florida have put the growth at 600,000.”
WTF?? The Census vs. Fishkind estimate vs. U of F. What are they smoking at U of F and how the hell can you put any faith in this Fishkind dude?
Academics. No accountability.
According to this article, the Census has Florida’s population only growing by 35,301 in the year between July 1, 2006 and June 30, 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/239uz5
That’s roughly 96.7 people per day. Wow! I guess Suzanne lied to me that 1,000 people a day move to Florida.
But she researched it…
Spare me the violins, she was greedy and stupid and deserves everything she gets. Let her rot.
for the record…
I’m against domestic violins.
IMO, she was stupid, very much so, but greed? Everybody’s trying to make a living. She wanted to make some bucks in real estate. No crime there (as far as we know.)
“‘I don’t know whether they’re ignorant or optimistic, perhaps a little of both,’ says Dr. Davis.”
I’ll go with IGNORANT!
My Dad, herd follower extraordinaire, just booked a one week house rental via Villadirect in the Emerald Isle development near Orlando for a family reunion. He was told to book now or be frozen out forever.
I consider it a victory in that he was previously told by a travel agent that if he didn’t book all aspects of a Disney trip in July 2007, a year before the actual trip, the prices would soar and everything would be sold out. I put him off six months, but it was a hell of a fight.
Anyway, a deposit has been made and the entire balance is due eight weeks before the early July date. When I looked the Villadirect agreement says the firm can switch to a “comparable” property if for any reason the property is no longer available, and you either take it or lose an escalating part of the money as it gets closer to the day. But at least this implies the money isn’t transferred to the owner until occupancy is granted.
It’s sort of too late, but if I get the address is there any way to check up on the property owner?
Wouldn’t it have been easier and cheaprt to stay at an off property hotel near WDW. I have never understood the rent a house thing. You have to cook and clean up after yourself. You’re on vacation, dang it. Plus after a long day at Disney, are you really going to want to drive all the way back to the house, cook dinner, wash dishes, etc.?
Actually, no. The are 20k~30k rental homes in central Florida and they are normaly as easy to get to as any hotel (except the Disney resorts). A 4 bedroom rental home fully furnished with a pool is normally around $120/night and can sleep 8~12. A run down mom & pop hotel will cost you $60/night for 4people max without any of the luxuries. No matter where I go anymore, if I am going for a week or more, we use rental homes. It can actually make family vacations affordable.
I’ll steal a comment from a post I saw a while ago somewhere, maybe here - “Orlando in July? Was the surface of the Sun all booked up”?
Disney hotels cost OVER TWICE the rate of nearby hotels that are close enough that they offer shuttle service to the Disney entrance. In December, we had no trouble booking a short stay in one of these hotels, at a surprisingly low rate, for later this month. Then its off to Sarasota for a week. Got a lower price than last year for a one week stay at a condo. Finally, back to Daytona area to stay with friends who bought there at the peak in mid-2006. Will try not to bring up real estate.
Gonna be interesting to see how things have changed since last year at this time.
Disney is smart right now..if you are a Fl resident you get a ok discount at the cheaper hotel, not any of the ones attached with the monorail..however, since most of the visitors now are from overseas and are getting a bargain thanks to our peso..I mean dollar..disney is going to charge the most they can..plus they get a different kind of clientel during the winter months..they usually can afford to spend the extra money..during the summer it is usually bargain hunting families..
I’d rather go less often and stay at a Disney Hotel. Last time at Pop Century I paid $80 a night during Easter. It is worth it to me to be able to hop on a bus to any park every 15 minutes or so. No driving, no parking fees, no standing out in the middle of a parking lot for an hour waiting for an off site hotel bus to show up. I guess if I can’t go for a totally relaxed vacation with no cooking, cleaning, driving, etc. I’d rather stay home and relax in the back yard. It may be selfish but my idea is, if we’re on vacation every single member of the family is on vacation, including me.
I may be able to help you WT….
“Clay Cason of Florida Gulf Coast Realty had two closings in December with another one in the works. One of his clients paid $1.225 million for a three-bedroom, two-bath house on Fort Myers Beach. The 1950s-era house is on the water and has an assessed value of more than $1.6 million.”
Anyone want to guess on how much it costs to insure that little piece of paradise? Or on what the property taxes are?
My guesses:
Taxes: ~22,000/yr
Insurance: ~10-20K/yr (depends on a few variables, but over here in Palm Beach, 1-2% of value is about right for insurance, I would guess a bit lower on the west coast).
Carrying costs between 30-40K/yr, before you touch the MTG.
Mike,
The cost of insurance on homes post 2002 have has dropped well below 1%. In fact we’re looking at about .33% in many cases. Older homes with documented upgrades are .75% to 1.25%.
It’s changed a whole lot in the last 12 months…that’s for sure!
Have has…I’m doing really well today.
Point is, the price of insurance shouldn’t be a real issue to homeowner’s any longer unless we’re talking about old homes with no updates which should be charged more any way. If you’re paying more than 1.25% of the value of your home and you’ve got something as simple as a roof replaced post 1995, you need to discuss it with your insurance agent. If they don’t want to talk about it, find another one.
I know someone that pays $15K/year insurance for a $1 million house on the east side (the non-ocean side) of the intracoastal. So I think Mike’s estimate of $20K on the beach is accurate. Remember that no insurance company other than Citizens will issue policies that close to the water.
I have a friend who does insurance and he says that is correct right now, however some insurance companies are now looking to expand east of 95 and take on more of the beach properties..
Alot of the old ones were torn down during the boom, and the new homes/condos were built to better hurricane codes..
“I have a friend who does insurance and he says that is correct right now, however some insurance companies are now looking to expand east of 95 and take on more of the beach properties..”
This is correct. I can think of a couple that will write regardless of age right now and are as I said, about 1 to 1.25% of coverage A as long as you have that documentation of updates. Shutters and a new roof go a very long way.
If FL continues to sell cheap reinsurance from the state and offers any type of incentive to open the windpool, you’ll probably find a lot of the smaller companies ready to open the flood gates.
This is correct. I can think of a couple that will write regardless of age right now and are as I said, about 1 to 1.25% of coverage A as long as you have that documentation of updates. Shutters and a new roof go a very long way.
Insurance may definitely be one of the obstacles to people moving into the state. We live in Ohio where tornados go thru every few years and a couple have destroyed 20 or more houses a couple times, but our rates aren’t ever close to 1-1.25% of the home value. We pay $538/yr on a $250,000 value and full replacement cost. That’s about a fifth. Adding the extra insurance into the price of a house down there and it may deter a lot of people, especially coupled with the prop taxes.
And..all you need is 1 hurricane to hit ANYWHERE in the state of Fl and you will see things change once again when it comes to insurance!
“When the music stops, what’s left?”
Stock market gains?
http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/marketsummary/
I keep reading that based on the expectation of higher forward earnings, stocks are cheap. Higher forward earnings despite profits at a historically high share of personal income, wages at a historic low. I guess the idea is that the majority of Americans will just go deeper and deeper into debt, allowing corporations to pay low, sell high.
But I also keep reading articles that say in reality profits are falling, like this one.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aXxB27.GNA4M&refer=home
Earnings estimates are way too high (most people are still predicting 10-15% earnings growth for 2008), and the Fed has quit caring about inflation. I think the S&P needs to trade below 1300.
I took all of my retirment $$ out of the stock market and am waiting for the DJIA to go down to 8000-9000 before I go back in. Am I nuts ? Maybe not. The only $$ we have left in the stock market is in a fund that you pay a higher carrying cost for, but we locked in our gains at 14,100 in July 07, and they get to keep the $$ in our ROTH’s under mangement for 2 more years, which we were planning on doing anyway. Yesterday, I believe the DJIA closed around 12750. I’m a happy camper so far.
Oh boy, a Miami thread. This is gonna be a long one.
Bem didn’t quout the beginning of the Miami Herald article:
It was about 8 a.m. in June, two months after Arnold Kovelman moved into his rented condo at Club at Brickell Bay in Miami, when he heard the knock on the door.
”I was kind of like sleep walking and this woman is there with a badge. She’s saying she’s the sheriff and she’s there to serve my landlord a foreclosure,” said Kovelman, 27, a senior account executive for a New York-based Web development company.
We’ve talked about this before.. if you’re renting, make sure it’s not from an FB, or be prepared to move quickly.
The article refers to Miami’s “financial district.” Exactly what kind of financial stuff goes on in Miami, other than RE and illegal activity? I know of no big banks, asset managers or hedge funds down there that matter. I know of no industry (again, other than RE and illegal activities) with major financing needs.
I have long been on record in believing Miami will be full of unfinished 40-story concrete skeletons and abandoned lugsury towers when this thing ends.
“The article refers to Miami’s “financial district.” Exactly what kind of financial stuff goes on in Miami,…”
A pawn shop is considered a “financial district” in MIA.
A LOT of Latin American money is managed out of Miami
Bad mushrooming trip, man?
“‘The reality is that people can afford only so much for housing, and that’s where prices have to be’ or a ‘huge inventory’ can build up, McCabe said. ‘We’re coming back now from the delusional, hallucinogenic stage of the boom.’”
I’m sort of glad that the whole mentality of turning more Southern cities into retirement homes is now coming to a screeching halt. I remember considering Charlotte a few years back. But even then, the prices for someone who actually wants to live and work there are too high.
Areas like Charlotte that get bought up by retirees from mostly up north get ruined in this manner because it disrupts the relation between wages and the cost of living. Charlotte has no real economy save for medical facilities. I’m sure many long term residents are now breathing a collective sigh of relief.
Jetson Boy,
I grew up about 45 miles north-northwest of Charlotte, in the middle of the country. Now it’s a suburb, and it sucks due to equity-rich people from north and south. Everything is now spelled “Harbour” instead of harbor, and “Pointe” instead of Point. You can put all the lipstick you want on this redneck NC pig, but we’re still not going to build your sidewalks and street lamps, nor are we going to build grocery stores within 5 minutes of you. Thanks for driving up all our property prices and making homes unaffordable for our children, ***holes. (I know, I know, we moved here, we like it here, we’re not leaving, get used to it, blah blah blah. ***holes). I’m not a racist, but I just want to put up a gigantic rebel flag in my front yard to make all the new people’s houses less valuable. With a skull and lightning bolts on it.
I hear ya loud and clear. I’m originally from Knoxville TN just across the border from NC. Like you, I also grew up in the sticks. Every single time I go home, the ’sticks’ are getting surrounded by countless ugly looking housing developments. The developments usually go like this: Old farmer with a few hundred acres of land retires and sells it to some slick-willy developers who then proceeds to bulldoze down all the trees, level the hills, pour a few miles of curving asphalt roads, then proceed to build countless enormous homes with a neat 3-4 pattern of models repeated like Christmas lights.All with the same boring and utterly bland selection of taupe, cream, and vanilla plastic siding. The names these places are given are ones like ” River walk”, or “Oak Breeze” or some other nonsense.
The yards are small and the grass of choice is Bermuda, which turns brown in the winter which in turns matches the dead colors of the homes save for a few tiny bradson pear trees out front.
Indeed. Every time I go home now I have a the itching desire to get the hell out of there ASAP. The whole area is starting to look like one gigantic strip mall complete with plastic people and their SUVs. Yet report after report comes out about ” How great Knoxville is for raising families” or how prosperous the local economy is, and lastly- how CHEAP the RE is. So here they come: From NY, MA, FL, OH, and dozens of other crappy, rust-belt, snowbound states of misery with their van loads of little runts and pockets of cash-out equity.
If I ever return to my home state, you better bet your boots that I will be making some noise. The over development and lack of planning needs to be dealt with. And for the Rebel flag- go for it! If I brought one out here in CA, I’d be strung up on a pole. I actually have a rebel shirt, but again- I can’t wear it anywhere outside the house lest I get some rather nasty stares.
(rant off)
Same thing happening in Brentwood, TN (a ‘burb just outside of NashVegas). Farmers selling beautiful farm land to developers, who then build these enormous homes that are a bought by a bunch of “outsiders” (aka “Yankees”).
My parent’s have a home in Brentwood they bought 17 years ago (it now belongs to them free and clear). After every homeowner’s association meeting, my parent’s would complain that “some Yankee from (pick a state outside of the Confederacy) was ‘bringing their asinine ways’ to the south, ruining everything”
Of course, my parents have now adjusted and actually befriended a few “yankees”. But, I used to laugh hysterically everytime they returned from an HOA meeting!
I still don’t get why you think it was fine for you to move from the south to Cali, but it’s outrage for anybody else to move the other way. I also don’t get why a real “rebel” would be intimidated by a few “nasty stares.” If you’re that proud of your Confederate heritage, why not have the cojones to show it?
There’s nothing really “to get”. Southerners just don’t care for people from outside of the South. Ever heard of the term “Carpetbagger”?
Also, Jetson_boy mentioned he had a “rebel” t-shirt. Not that he was, in fact, a genuine “rebel”.
The reason that I’m sort of irritated at people who move to the South from places like the Northeast and CA and FL is that they do so for different reasons than why I moved to Cali. I moved to CA for professional reasons and also because my industry is more prominent here. I came to CA and added to the local economy. That and I respect the local and ethnic character of the area.
On the other hand, I guarantee that a huge chunk of those moving into places like Knoxville are only doing so because the homes are cheaper. Most come with huge chunks of cash from their cashed-out homes. Many are retirees. In other words, many are not coming to contribute to the local economy or be productive citizens. Most are coming merely to buy up their stake of land and basically semi-retire. Admittedly part of the problem is that state and local governments are more than happy to allow builder to build anywhere they please. But it ultimately creates an enormous amount of sprawl.
Secondly, I can’t tell you how many of these people moving in have fears about conservatives, Baptists, Rednecks, and the myriad Southern stereotypes they’ve learned about on TV. Most come with the hopes that someday, the South will be all whitewashed and gentrified just like the places they just came from. If I can move to CA and carry respect for what already exists there, then I expect the same when those from out here move there. In other words, don’t move down to a different area and hope it will change to your liking.
Lastly, as mentioned, the artificial influx of ‘foreign’ cash manipulates the local economy in an unhealthy way.
In regards to the Shirt… Oakland is not too far from where I live. Are you kidding?
‘There’s nothing really “to get”. Southerners just don’t care for people from outside of the South. Ever heard of the term “Carpetbagger”?’
Spoken like a true damn yankee. Seriously, I heard people from New York describe a certain senator that way. Maybe you shouldn’t speak for other people.
Jetson Boy
We are one of those “half backs” who left Fl. Yes we cashed out well on the home, (no HELCO’s for us) but the reason we moved was like any other…
We wanted better schools, a better way of life for our kids, we missed the change of season as my husband and I are both northerners, a more “Christian based” area(not against anyone’s religion just our own viewpoint), hubby also had a better job opportunity as well.
We live in a city, however it is rural..just the way we like it..the folks around here are extremely nice to us and even bought us dinner the first night we moved in..
Sadly, the way you are is so different from the Southern hospitality that as northerners, we have come to love..including our buscuits and fried pickles..
I hope you see fit to give others a chance..
Actually Ben, I was born and raised in Tennessee. There is a certain, for lack of a better word, “mentality” among some people from the southern states. You see it mostly in the older generations. Lingering bitterness because the south lost the civil war? The south’s natural distaste for fast-moving city ways? Watching “Gone with the Wind” way too many times? Who knows.
Besides, I wasn’t speaking for other people. I was speaking for myself, from my personal observations.
So when you say:
‘Southerners just don’t care for people from outside of the South.’
You are speaking for yourself? You aren’t speaking for me, and I grew up in the south. What I’ve noticed is that people don’t like outsiders, period. I posted this a long time ago:
People in Alaska don’t like Seattlites, cuz they go up there all the time. People in Washington don’t care for folks from Oregon. Those in Colorado hate Texans, as do Oklahomans, but the feeling is mutual. People here in Arizona don’t like Utah mormons. And everybody seems to have a problem with New Yorkers and Californians. Etc.
What I like about folks from the south is they tend to be friendly. Here in Arizona, there is not a ‘typical’ person. We’re almost all from somewhere else. That’s pretty cool too. Except the native Americans; many of them don’t like us outsiders. Oh well, generalizations are usually inaccurate,
The last thing I’m going to say about this is that I’m 30 years old. Perhaps if you could have seen what the area I grew up in looked like when I was a kid, you would see what devastation has already been done to it. There’s no going back.
I feel strongly that the Southeast was taken advantage of for no more than it’s cheap RE prices. The fact that the boom has bust and the means to cash out and move there are drying up is in my mind extremely positive.
Lastly, how about watching the media? Do you see how we are portrayed as stupid haysees? Think about it for a minute and ask yourselves why we sometimes feel irate at people who know next to nothing about us or where we come from.
Jetson_boy–the difference is you moved OUT of the South for legitimate reasons, while people who move TO the South do so for illegitimate reasons? I understand the need to rant sometimes, but on some level you have to recognize your’re being just a tad hypocritical here–choosing to live in an area for a higher income is no more constructive for that area than choosing to live in an area because it has a lower cost of living.
As for living near Oakland, I’m sure the Oaklanders will understand that your rebel flag is nothing more than an expression of your “pride” in your heritage, not hat–because that’s what it is, right?
Lots of people think NY, MA, MI, NE, and OH are quite a bit better than the south or either coast. I understand the tendency to assume everyone views the world as you do, and I understand it was a rant, but you should check your smug attitude regarding places where you don’t live and don’t understand.
Make sure you put out a beat up old car placed upon cinder blocks in your front yard to compliment the confederate flag. And if you really want to “go the extra mile” put an old sofa out on the front porch! That should help de-valuate the homes in the ‘hood.
I’m going a step further. I’m just going to have sex with a pig in my front yard during the busy traffic times. When they slow down to stare I’ll scream “You want the south? You got it!! Yeeeeeehawwwww”
Mountain Man: I’m gonna make you squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee!
Jeeze, I can’t wait. I do think someone should be wearing a sun-bonnet, as long as you can keep a grip on it. Sunbonnets are cute.
Actually, though, I much approve of your enthusiasm and willingness to do your own small part in local housing price depreciation. It’s this sort of can-do creativity that makes this country great.
Charlotte has no economy other than medical facilities? Regardless of your opinion of banks, Charlotte is still the headquarters of both Bank of America and Wachovia. Banking is a signficant driver of the Charlotte economy. owntown office vacancy rates are less than 1%. I don’t know of any other metropolitan areas that can boast such strong CBD numbers.
I too am not pleased that all the halfbacks will ruin Charlotte (and North Carolina), as well as the mountains and areas of Tennessee, Georgia, and South Carolina. But to argue that Charlotte has no economy and ignore the obvious banking influence is disengenuous, at best.
What about the Nascar influence on the area’s economy? Again, regardless of your opinion of Nascar, it too is a major driver of the Charlotte area economy.
you make some good points and I will retract my previous statement.
Ah, I’m from the south, live here now, went to college here, etc. I don’t care who moves where. Raise those property values, build those look alike sub-divisons, level mountains, cut down entire forests. Means nothing to me.
EXCEPT … except … stay away from my town. I live in Mobile, keep away, leave me in peace. Nobody wants to live here? GREAT. Keep it that way. Five year supply of condo’s at the beaches but so what (sorry, no house in Ala is worth $1mil). Maybe they’ll just give up and bulldoze them, problem solved. The rest of the country in trouble? Too bad, thats life.
i Loooooovvveee Mobile. I went there last year for the GMAC Bowl and had such a great time. Strangers (or who started as strangers) bought drinks and invited me out to eat. It was awesome.
I applied for a job there after grad school, but had accepted another offer before I connected again with the hiring department. Still would like to move there someday. I’d live downtown.
Some hope is on the horizon it appears. Home prices are falling and interest rates are getting very interesting again, if the energy prices will get in line the late spring may bring a few more sales into the picture, this country needs some good news?
“Lawmakers face an additional $2 billion budget shortfall and a plummet in housing prices not seen since the Great Depression. Lawmakers already cut about $1 billion in October. House budget chairman Ray Sansom told lawmakers in a memo Wednesday that the budget will have to be cut by an additional $2 billion this year.”
“Amy Baker, the coordinator of the Office of Economic and Demographic Research, said that the state’s excess supply of homes is more than 200,000 and that it may take nearly two years simply to sell the excess homes. She said prices are expected to continue falling into 2009, with a total reduction of home values in Florida likely to be greater than the 15 percent expected nationally.”
Florida is truly going to show the way that the rest of the country ends up like, as it’s it’s Light-Months ahead of anybody else, in terms of dire.
“Florida is truly going to show the way that the rest of the country ends up like, as it’s it’s Light-Months ahead of anybody else, in terms of dire.”
That is just what it seems like, from here on the ground. Once work of BKs among your friends gets around, I think more and more FBs will try to cut their losses and get out.
“‘Housing prices aren’t like the price of barbecue grills at Wal-Mart where you simply mark them down at the end of the summer,’ he said. ‘People are very reluctant or unable to cut the price of their homes.’”
Then I’ll just take the short-sale or foreclosed model down the block for the discount Wal-Mart price.
“A man of knowledge lives by acting, not by thinking about acting.”
Carlos Castaneda
“Fishkind said his analysis found ‘very little price erosion’ occurred in most markets last year.”
Is Fishey using the Enron analysis method again? Maybe he’s only looking at markets outside of FL or in the Panhandle at least 20 miles from the coast. Nothing this guy says amazes me anymore. I’m numb to the lies!
Fortune: Will foreclosures spark an arson boom?
Ok - which of you aspiring screenwriters gave her the idea?
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/09/news/economy/birger_arson.fortune/index.htm?cnn=yes
The next bubble: BIC lighters and gasoline cans!! Woo-Hoo!! I’m headed down to Wal-Mart to corner the market!! I’m an investor!
RULE # !..If you are going to commit a crime..Don’t tell anyone!
RULE #2..Don’t ask anyone to help you! Duh..
RULE #3..didn’t anyone ever hear of just leaving the lighted cig on the bed..hey..that accounts for at least 30% of the new york fires..and another 20% is the old, “left the pan on the stove.”
RULE #3..Keep it Simple..Stupid!
This is in no way an endorsement!
“Another prominent feature in the latest wave of bankruptcy is youth, according to Rosanna Jacobsen, a financial-literacy advocate and local executive with Colonial Bank.”
“‘You just see more people in their 20s and 30s going into bankruptcy these days,’ said Jacobsen. ‘Too many young people are uneducated and unprepared to manage money, and that’s why we’re seeing more of them in debt and in bankruptcy.’”
Bankruptcy was once something neighbors whispered about others, and dared not admit, to being in.
Just a few generations ago…
Chasing that “hip and edgy” urban lifestyle will cost ya.
‘Too many young people are uneducated and unprepared to manage money, and that’s why we’re seeing more of them in debt and in bankruptcy.’
I guess someone (the parental units) forgot to tell these kids that money does NOT…repeat, does NOT…grow on trees.
It’s true, there is no way they could grow money fast enough using trees, that’s why even produce (which does grow on trees) is going up in price.
In fact money isn’t even as valuable as trees over time. That’s what makes it really hard for parental units (me) to figure out WHAT to teach our kids about money.
Kids learn by example. What do you suppose they’re learning now.
“Bankruptcy was once something neighbors whispered about others, and dared not admit, to being in.”
It’s now just a financial tool used by the shrewd.
Hey, it works for the Trumpmeister and all those companies with legacy pension difficulties.
“‘The reality is that people can afford only so much for housing, and that’s where prices have to be’ or a ‘huge inventory’ can build up, McCabe said.’”
FINALLY, SOMEONE IN THESE ARTICLES GETS IT! IT’S THE AFFORDABILITY (which means income/price ratio) THAT MAKES PEOPLE ABLE TO BUY HOUSES! Not incentives, not media sentiment, or any other reason. If people can’t afford houses, they won’t buy them! The only reason they did buy them during the boom when they were unaffordable is the temporary affordability given by the toxic loans. I wish everyone in the MSM who flaps their yap about real estate would listen to this McCabe guy first.
Well, the market needs one of two things.
1) Easy access to ever larger sums of credit, at lower rates, and constant supply of new programs that allow lower initial payments, without regard for peoples’ ability to repay the debt, only make the initial payments.
In short, the ability of debt trees to grow to the moon and beyond.
OR
2) Affordability.
Looks like Door #1 is the winner right now.
Amen. If someone can afford a $100K house, then they can only afford a $100K house. They can NOT afford a $200K house just because it has $100K of “incentives.”
This is doubly true if banks start asking for down payments again.
“Polito’s report was a mixed bag. The region suffers from a glut of vacant developed home lots. A healthy supply would last builders 18 to 24 months. We’ve got a 40-month supply.”
Since when is 18 to 24 months a “healthy supply?”
Maybe it’s like when people say “40 (years of age) is the new 30″ or “(a size) 2 is the new 4″.
Now, the ” (supply of) 18 to 24 months” is the new “6 to 9 months”?
“healthy” as in “not gonna run out any time soon.”
Just posted on the Orlando Sentinel’s website:
“The median sales price of used homes in the Orlando area plunged in December by a record dollar amount, $11,000, to $223,900.”
http://tinyurl.com/3dodpl
Insert “Ha! Ha!” a la Nelson from the Simpsons.
An 818 square-foot unit, which sold in June of 2006 for $430,000, was listed Monday for $220,000, according to Lechuga.”
50% haircut. I LOVE IT!!!! KEEP EM’ COMING!!!!! er, I mean a droppin’!!!!
Earlier this year, the Club at Brickell Bay lost its cable and Internet service because the condo association fell behind on payments. That doesn’t worry Alex Fornet, who has lived at The Club for two years. He said he’s there for the long haul.”
Attention Club at Brickell Bay. Please do not stiff AT&T for their payments. I want my paycheck.
Hopefully, when we get all these issues with the foreclosures we’ll prosper in the end and profit from our investments,’ Fornet said. ‘This is Manhattan, it’s the future Manhattan, so we’re all sitting real good.’
Can I buy this whole place for $24 worth of cheap beads from some Indian pueblo here in NM? That might be a good investment. Not what this dude is describing.
As a native Orlandoan, I’ve endured years of “It’s different here.” Finally, finally the last of those believers has shut up. Although I miss my old neighborhood, am I ever glad I moved outside the city limits. Between the bond commitments the mayor apparently has got Orlando into and the glut of unsold downtown condos that may not bring in anywhere near the property tax that was counted on, it looks like the city taxpayers are totally screwed. That should help prices a lot.
The small reward many, or maybe most, of us miss out on is hearing “You know, you were right all along about this housing market.” I don’t hear that and I should. Instead there is just silence or observation of the tanking market as if is a brand-new revelation. Only occasionally, when I get into a conversation with someone and they learn that I’m renting and why, do I get a positive comment about good timing. Mostly, though, they rack it up to luck. I suppose that the folks who have lost out just can’t deal with having passed up the opportunity to avoid such a loss.
I have doctors, Realtors, mortgage brokers and all kinds of people who had rental properties who are in trouble now,’ said Andrew Baron, a consumer-bankruptcy lawyer in Orlando. ‘These are people who never dreamed they’d be facing this kind of situation. And they’ll resist until the bitter end before they file bankruptcy.’”
Funny my husband has a friend who is mortgage broker(swears he is making a killing right now..R-I-G-H-T(heavy sarcasm))..but he is 5 mill in debt with properties bought during the boom…we keep wondering how is he keeping it all up! Properties are all underwater…
Well, interesting article I read about how the next wave will be the prime borrowers who are currently using their “good credit” to keep acquiring debt to pay off their bills. You know credit card A pays for B…the article said that very soon the train will crash for these prime borrowers…as they are only delaying the inevitable..
My husband and I are taking bets..that by the end of the year..the train will stop! It only goes to show how screwed up this society is to not recognize that credit score my not have anything to do with credit WORTHY…
There’s really no differnence between having a negative worth of 200k or 1 mil. People will just keep rolling those dice until someone forcibly removes them from the table.
It only goes to show how screwed up this society is to not recognize that credit score my not have anything to do with credit WORTHY…
There’s an old saying that explains it:
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that’s the way to bet.”
It only goes to show how screwed up this society is to not recognize that credit score my not have anything to do with credit WORTHY…
You are so right. The credit score is so misleading, it’s no wonder so called “prime” buyers are going under.
About 10 years ago, while visiting the Palm Coast area, wife and I decided that the Flagler/St Aug area would be a great for retirenment and have been waiting to reach the age requirements for pension. Well, we made it alive and in good health but our local Tidewater market is sticky at best. Now attempting to make plans for our future living arrangements. Based on limited info it appears that NE FLA sales prices have not moved much from peak and reasonable rent for a nice SFH for retirees with 2 dogs may be difficult. Any locals have info on the Palm Coast area? Is St Aug and Flagler really as different as the realetors say? MLS indicating $200 per sq ft for whgat appears to be low end residences - OK stuff but nothing special. Thanks in advance.
Flagler is nice but pricey. Palm Coast has alot of foreclosures and they all look the same. I was handed a flyer yesterday for an auction in Flagler, townhouse 1200 sq feet close to the beach, starting bid 174,900,wishing price 289,000.
Zeke - IMO, $200/ft is WAY too much for anything but a high-end custom house. I’m not that far from Flagler and prices for ordinary-built here are reaching $100 fast, on their way lower. In the older areas of Palm Coast (the only ones I’ve been into, though long ago), I wouldn’t pay more than $100/ft and even then you may see some of your equity disappear later. Suggest you keep in mind that even if prices went back to pre-bubble levels - 1997-2000 - property taxes and insurance are much higher and retired buyers are going to factor that into their offers. All IMO.
“Too many young people are uneducated and unprepared to manage money, and that’s why we’re seeing more of them in debt and in bankruptcy.”
Your public school tax dollars at work.
But in the past they couldn’t get into the kind of trouble they can now. Mortgages were hard to get. Credit Cards? Maybe a Sears card and possibly a single BankAmericard or a single MasterCharge card. Today its like giving a kid an Uzi, instead of a BB gun.
Why is it always the schools that have to teach these kids everything. Don’t any of them have parents. Plus if anyone thinks the schools can have any effect on what these children are learning at home, think again. The home is still the greatest influence. I’m sure they’ve already learned what a credit card is, how to avoid the bill collectors on the phone, that you never have to wait if you want something, that they deserve the big house & new car, that there is no such thing as a savings account, that eating out every day is a way of life, that new clothes will make you feel better and last but not least that lying, cheating and stealing is a way to get exactly what you want. I don’t work at a school. Yes our school has a personal finance class, but I taught my children about finances and saving, because I felt our example would teach them way more than one semester at school.
This building The Jade has 56 foreclousures. The asking price for two bedroom condos is from $799,000 to $2.3 million. Who in their right mind would buy now with all the foreclosures plus resales.
http://www.condoideas.com/condo-1077-jadecondo.htm
Besides the ridiculous prices, did you get an eyeball full of those montly association fees? What a joke!
Speaking of condo assn. fees, that is another hurdle sellers must clear. While perusing the listings, if I find the condo fees to be more than $100 per month, I dismiss the listing. Now, if the assn. fees include your property tax (like most co-ops do), then I understand that. But, if I am paying P & I of $800 per month, $450 per month in property taxes AND another $350 in condo fees, that’s just plain preposterous. Some fees include heat, water, etc. but some don’t. You must read the fine print very, very carefully.