From Red Hot To Deep-Space Cold In Florida
The News Press reports from Florida. “Up and down this two-mile palm-lined piece of paradise - also known as Bonita Beach -nearly 100 homes and condos are for sale at pocketbook-pleasing prices. 21 percent of the single-family beachfront homes in this southernmost corner of Lee County are for sale. And most are priced significantly lower than what owners were asking a year ago.”
“‘That’s a lot … the prices have definitely softened,’ said broker Susan Bellina. ‘The condos sold in 2007 sold for less than they did in 2005.’”
“In 2005, one two-bedroom, two-bathroom condo in Casa Bonita facing the Gulf sold for $840,000. Last year, a similar unit sold for $450,000, Bellina said.”
“‘In 2005, we were all crazy. There was a waiting list to buy. People were outbidding each other, and almost as soon as you’d put out a sign, the property was sold,’ she said. Then the bottom fell out.”
“‘When the market fell, the sellers were in shock. They couldn’t accept the fact that the market changed,’ Bellina said. ‘I don’t think that after 15 years of property values going up and up, they could accept the fact that the economy was affecting our piece of paradise.’”
“Realtor Loretta Young said sellers finally got the hint last year. ‘There were several sellers who dropped their asking price by $300,000 to $700,000,’ she said. ‘But those were the big beachfront homes and the people who dropped their prices like that could afford to do so. They are the ones who bought property there in the 1970s.’”
“‘There is a buyer for every home,’ she said. ‘I don’t think it’s going to go any lower, and I think a lot of the buyers are insulting the sellers when they make some of these offers. You’re not going to get a beachfront home for $300,000 unless you want to go to Costa Rica.’”
“Lee County had the worst rental occupancy rate in the state and the steepest decline in the fourth quarter, according to a report released Thursday. In complexes of 100 units or more, the occupancy rate was 80.4 percent.”
“‘It’s not surprising,’ said Fort Myers-based commercial real estate broker Ed Bonkowski. ‘There are too many vacant homes and speculation homes that people closed on. They’re doing anything they can to rent these properties.’”
“As a result, he said, ‘The tenants are in charge now. If you think you’re going to get first month, last month and deposit, you’ll be sitting vacant for a year.’”
The Tampa Tribune. “In the face of rising inventories of vacant homes and declining orders for new ones, Tampa Bay homebuilders slashed construction 59 percent in 2007, according to Metrostudy.”
“Metrostudy said there are 3,551 completed, vacant homes in the five-county Tampa Bay area. That’s 235 fewer homes than counted in the third quarter. These are homes that no one has lived in and are either owned by builders or investors. Such inventory peaked at just more than 4,700 units in the first quarter of 2007.”
“Joseph Narkiewicz, executive VP of the Tampa Bay Builders Association, said the majority of the inventory is made up of homes bought by investors, not homes that builders have been unable to sell.”
“‘And we’re not talking about New York investors,’ Narkiewicz said. ‘Look around at the next barbeque and ask your neighbors how many homes they bought. That’s a big part of the problem.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Managers at Allstate Builders of SW Florida Inc. — hit by a flurry of commercial liens in recent weeks — say they are not exiting the business of building homes.”
“The company, first established in North Port in 1982, is ‘phasing out of the business’ for the time being because of competition from foreclosed homes that is overwhelming its position, said Gary Grennell, Allstate Builders’ sales manager.”
“‘There is no sense in our trying to build homes only to have a house across the street sell in a bank foreclosure for $20,000 to $30,000 less,’ he said.”
“Its houses, mostly in North Port, sell for $130,000 to $210,000. ‘We have five or six finished, and if we lose $30,000 on each that’s $180,000 in losses,’ Grennell said, referring the undercutting by foreclosures. ‘Where’s the profit? Out the window.’”
“On top of the ‘nearly 5,000 unsold houses’ listed in local MLS, there also are competitive pressures from houses owned by contractors and banks, Grennell said. ‘We can’t compete with that.’”
“First State Bank’s parent has boosted its total reserve for loan losses by 55 percent to a record $7.6 million. The holding company said that the bank has nearly $19 million in impaired loans, both residential and commercial.”
“‘We have experienced a significant decline in property values within our core lending markets,’ said Jed Wilkinson, First State’s CEO.”
“Of its residential portfolio, $5.6 million in loans — or 10.4 percent — are impaired, the bank said. Impaired commercial loans rose to $13.1 million, or about 8.54 percent of total commercial loans. First State, which operates three branches in Sarasota County and four in Pinellas, said that its third-quarter earnings fell 30 percent because of a decline in mortgage fees.”
“The housing boom fueled a jump in the number of people wanting to sell real estate in Tampa Bay. Carol Austin, CEO of the Greater Tampa Association of Realtors, said 2008 numbers are getting closer to those of 2004, when the housing boom was red-hot.”
“Last year was a tough one for the real estate market. Homes are now sitting on the market for months. Some are not selling at all. Sellers are lowering prices and some are selling for less than what they owe on their mortgage.”
“Tony Rojas, a broker in Tampa, said he suspected that only about half of the agents who renewed were actually selling real estate for a living. In the coming year, he said, many more agents are likely to get new jobs.”
“‘A lot of people are on the edge, with little or no income coming in,’ he said. ‘They’re wondering how long they can do this.’”
“The median sales price for the Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area dropped below $200,000 in November for the first time since April 2005, according to data from the Florida Association of Realtors.”
“November’s sales price of $189,100 was 21 percent lower than in June 2006, when prices peaked locally at $239,600.”
“Inventory has swelled, too. There were 19,354 homes listed for sale in December, five times as many as were listed in the same month in 2004, the Tampa Realtors group said.”
“It would take 17.6 months at the current selling pace to sell all those homes, according to the group. ‘We’re at a point now where being a part-time agent isn’t going to work,’ Rojas said. ‘In my 20 years as an agent, this is the toughest market I’ve seen.’”
“The roads might be clogged with the normal influx of winter residents, but many vacationers appear to be counting pennies at home rather than shells on Florida beaches.”
“Just-released November occupancy rates were down in Manatee, Sarasota and Charlotte counties an average of 10.3 percent — a trend that was mirrored in other parts of the nation.”
“Middle-class vacationers, especially those who use credit cards to pay for all or part of their holiday, who have been recently spooked by the poor economy and declining home values.”
“Florida is being hit harder than other places in the nation, but tourist destinations everywhere are suffering, said Duane Vinson, a spokesman for Smith Travel Research. Companies are cutting three-day conventions to two, while some leisure travelers are staying home altogether. The occupancy figures across the nation are as worrisome as those in Southwest Florida, Smith said. ‘You’re looking at double digits.’”
“Though some pundits have argued in recent months that tourism is recession-proof, the downturn comes as the housing market struggles at its lowest point in decades, as retail sales are down and while the federal government considers a broad stimulus package to bail the nation out of a downward economic course.”
The Sun Sentinel. “President Bush’s $145 billion tax relief package is emerging at a tough time for South Florida, but economic analysts doubt it will help much as joblessness rises sharply and wages fail to keep pace with inflation in the region.”
“In 2007, the ranks of Florida’s unemployed shot up by 49 percent. There were 441,000 people without jobs last December, compared with 297,000 in December 2006, according to figures from the Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation.”
“‘What a difference from a year ago,’ said economist Sean Snaith, director of the Institute for Economic Competitiveness at the University of Central Florida. ‘The housing market has gone from red hot to deep-space cold. That means less employees in that sector.’”
The Miami Herald. “Florida’s unemployment rate hit its highest level in more than three years, according to employment data released Friday. The state’s white-hot employment growth of the past few years was fueled in large part by the housing boom. Since that started cooling off last year, the jobs picture has become more lackluster.”
“Construction jobs overall in Florida were down 3.3 percent in December, a loss of 20,900 jobs over the year. The state noted Friday that it was the first time since 1992 Florida has experienced 10 straight months of consecutive job declines in that industry.”
“Employers here, like in the rest of the state, are being cautious, said Miami recruiter Jorge Roca. Roca, who works for the staffing company Spherion, said the overabundance of qualified applicants willing to take lower-paying jobs means companies focus less on retention.”
“‘The candidates have become expendable,’ he said. Now, employers are taking a ‘wait-and-see’ attitude and are more tentative about bringing on new people, given all the negative economic news.”
The News Journal. “With construction and mortgage jobs evaporating, unemployment soared in Volusia and Flagler counties last month, leaving the counties with their highest jobless rates in more than three years, state labor officials said Friday.”
“‘We’re going to have a rough go of it for the next few months before there’s any stabilization,’ said Sean Snaith, director of UCF’s Institute of Economic Competitiveness.”
“For the two counties combined, the rate averaged 5 percent, compared with 3.2 percent at the end of 2006. That meant more than 14,000 people were trying to find jobs. A few dozen of them paid a visit Friday to the One Stop Career Center near Volusia Mall, hoping to pick up hiring leads from the center’s database of job openings.”
“Among them was Keith Moore, 47, of Daytona Beach Shores. He said his remodeling business had been doing well the past couple of years, but in recent weeks, orders fell to almost nothing.”
“Moore said he’s trying to keep the business running, but in the meantime he’s looking for fill-in work as a machinist or even in food service. ‘I’ll go out to the track and wait tables if I have to,’ Moore said. ‘You have to do something to keep going.’”
From NBC 2 News. “Fifteen months and a drop in price of well over $100,000 later, a ‘For Sale’ sign still sits in homeowner Mark Sievert’s front yard. ‘As the sheet shows, it’s down to $388,000 and I’m just looking for an offer to be honest with you,’ said Sievert.”
“There is a glimmer of hope for Southwest Florida’s slumping real estate market. Despite slow sales in recent months, the newest numbers are showing the housing industry may recover faster than anticipated.”
“Even as we were there talking to Sievert, someone called to ask about his house - but still no luck. ‘Oh there is plenty of interest. I see plenty of people coming around taking fliers. I put those fliers out and I probably get rid of 15 to 20 of them a week,’ said Sievert.”
“Now, there may be hope for people like Sievert. The Naples Area Board of Realtors reports sales of homes valued at $300,000 or less were up 33-percent in 2007.”
“‘The good news is there are signs of recovery all over the marketplace, said Joe Ballarino of the Naples Area Board of Realtors. A recent report in the Wall Street Journal ranked Naples and Punta Gorda as two markets where home prices will fall more than any other place in the country by 2009.”
“Ballarino says that’s just dead wrong. ‘We have great beaches and great amenities. Our market is always going to come back before the rest of the housing market comes back,’ said Ballarino.”
It gives me no pleasure to see the jobs disappear in Florida, but it was entirely predictable. I’ve said many times that the PTB should have known you can’t build an economy on selling each other houses.
This reminds me of discussions here from long ago, when some troll would tell us that if the market slowed down, the Fed would cut rates and the government would spend and the market would take back off. I countered that if the Fed is cutting rates, we are headed into a recession, which is hardly a good time to buy a house.
Well, the Fed is cutting, the government is sending out checks, and I don’t see anybody standing in line for a house.
“In 2005, one two-bedroom, two-bathroom condo in Casa Bonita facing the Gulf sold for $840,000. Last year, a similar unit sold for $450,000, Bellina said.”
Come on Ben, it’s a BUYER market! You need to get with the program…
My dad is down for a visit and we drove around Orange County a little. Several subdivisions in various states of completion, with no activity- no earthmoving equipment, no foundations/slabs being poured, no framers working on the half-finished houses, etc. All of this on a normal Friday/workday in the “red-hot” Central Florida gousing market.
In Florida every conversation I hear is about real estate. A couple of years ago it was about how much THEIR house was worth or how much some guy conned someone to take a home off their hands. Everyone here thought they were MiniTrumps.
Now all I hear is, “There’s no work around here,” “I’m having a hard time getting by,” “So many people out there struggling,” “I got caught up in the whole housing mess. What could I do?”
Another thing I hear is disclaimer of responsibility. People think it’s not their fault they are broke, not their fault their home hasn’t sold for six months, not their fault the Unrealtor has set the price too high, not their fault their tax bill is out of control, not their fault what they did with homeowners insurance, not their fault they’re overbuilding and mowing under every last green blade of grass in Florida.
It’s not their fault, and it’s everybody’s fault here in Florida. Both statements are true.
‘I got caught up in the whole housing mess. What could I do?’
This gets to something that bugs me about the current debate on ‘preventing’ a recession. In econ 101 one learns recessions are an economic period where malinvestments are wrung out of the system. In this case, largely the bad investments are in the RE sector.
This means resources must be reallocated. People need to start companies in other areas, jobs are then created in these other areas. There is no way to prevent this from occurring, and I know d**** well that the Fed knows this.
I don’t understand why this country and the media, politicians, etc, continue to react to events like children, and try to explain away what are simple economic matters.
In this case, largely the bad investments are in the RE sector.
I’d allocate 50% to the real estate sector and another 50% to the PE “flip this corporation” mentality which we will see the fallout from soon, I’ll bet.
I still don’t think we have seen credit card’s play out. FB’s will be drawing on their “reserves” to pay their living expenses for a long while in some cases.
“largely the bad investments are in the RE sector.”
US corporations’ profits have been largely fueled by consumers spending more than they could comfortably afford (or, in a lot of cases, more than they even make). People “extracted” money from the future by borrowing.
The future is now here, that “future” money is now today’s money and it’s gone…and it’s now MUCH harder to borrow from the new future.
So you have a case where corporations in the past were profiting from people with more than “fundamental” amounts of cash to spend. Now, people are starting to have less than “fundamental” amounts of money.
That’s why I think that the 3-5 year trend in US equities is downward.
The great Mel Brooks said all there was to know about why politicians “continue to react to events like children, and try to explain away what are simple economic matters” in Blazing Saddles, when he said, “We’ve gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen, we must do something about this immediately!”
It’s a popularity contest.
“continue to react to events like children”
No offense to us, but we’ve become a nation of idiots. How else do you explain your neighbors spending to the limits of their paychecks, and often beyond, without regard to an emergency fund or saving for retirement…while calling people that *do* save “unsophisticated in financial matters”.
Amen…..
Another line from Blazing Saddles: “You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the New West. You know - morons.”
Their words and proposed actions betray their knowledge that the system is fragile. Resorting to an out and out bribe to stimulate consumption IMO is tantamount to capitulation. OTOH if it works it’ll become a masterstroke of interventionism. In that case, I want $2,000 next time around.
‘Twon’t work in any case. The politicians are just bribing the electorate with the electorate’s own money.
MSM reporter admits getting out of real estate market in 2005 while his paper continued to blow the bubble.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-shortsell20jan20,0,1815515.story?coll=la-home-business
that worked in UK summer 2004- weird ,but true
FL vs 2005 peak
could it end up
condos off 70%
villa th off 60
sfh off 50%
wowowowowowow
Ben -
Rates have dropped like a rock. LIBOR is down 140 bps in the last 30 days or so. What impact will this have on the market? I called several mortgage people I know and according to them their phones are ringing off the hook (yes I know, they lie all the time)…
I cant help, I am a contrarian by nature - everyone is getting negative on housing and stocks and sees the end of the world that I talk to. That was my opinion (everything was bad in 2004-2007) and now I dont feel as negative.
“everyone is getting negative on housing and stocks ”
Housing - if you want to see a negative, look at housing early 1990’s in Los Angeles. This is nothing.
Stocks - you may have a point, at least short term.
he was still in college then, I believe.
I graduated in 1992. I remember the mess very well, purchased my first home in 1994 at a “bargain price”, turned out I was underwater by 1996…
Interesting. The decline phase in NoVA was 1989 to 1992. By 1993 there were baby step price increases again (from the 1992 low).
You’ve go to be kidding? I just went to Florida for 11 days, stopped at Sarasota, Cape Coral, Pompano, and Stuart. I spent a bit of time looking at RE. Cape Coral is flying down, saw a cute small house on one of the better canals for 260k, they said make an offer. I talked to the realtor and asked her what the taxes were in 07, 7800, i said you are kidding. Those houses will keep going down until the state stops stealing from people. So between taxes and ins you would have about 11k, you better start firing gov employees or that state will be in a recession for life.
Check out the CA articles from the past few days. People complaining about how expensive or unavailable jumbo loans are.
Every day Iread articles from all over with UHS saying this is their best month ever. Yet sales are dropping like a rock. Hmm.
Yes were are in a recession and things are getting tough, I am just trying to question my own conclusions and see where we are going.
Crispy:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/01/traffic-spike.html
Thanks!
I went back into the market in early 2002 buying the SPY and continued to buy - yes, I was a little too early. Take my opinion with a grain of salt - you could lose a lot of money.
The relentless stock market pounding has just now got into the general public consciousness and with a three-day weekend for anxiety to build I’ve got to believe there’s room for at least one more big mauling on the downside. The contrarian bear call has been failing for three weeks now, which means when the rally comes it will be big. But for this week I think there’s still a lot of money to be lost being naked long. I think there’ll be another failed rally, followed by a blowout on the downside, and then perhaps the beginning of a decent rally. There’s getting to be too many people on the rally bandwagon! The purpose of the stock market is to impose maximum pain! IMO, most vulnerable right now are the companies that just started to get hit last week - high P/E companies with decelerating earnings growth that are still trading within 20% of their highs, energy-related shares, and non-Japanese Asian stocks.
The husband of my girlfriend’s friend worked for CFC and recently went off on his own. Last night at a dinner party we asked him how things are going with his new venture: “busier than ever, 10x busier”.
“Busy” would have sufficed, 10x was over the top.
He did say CFC was one slimy outfit though.
Yes, but if he made only 1 dollar for CFC and last month made 10 dollars on his, he’s telling the truth, more or less. One can make numbers say almost anything.
I think it depends on which UHS you are talking to at the time. Around here those who sold the lower and mid and even somewhat-upper bracket properties are not selling anything. In most areas of the county, nothing to speak of is selling.
However, a member of a board that I am on is a realtor and is doing great. He has sold properties for record prices, and is very busy. Of course he specializes in the premier and most expensive town in the county which is ‘the’ vacation home place for those in the upper 1%. (Unfortunately even the NYT keeps boosting that town.) I ask him if the buyers for these houses he is selling (all in excess of $900,000) had had trouble getting jumbo loans. He said that those buyers are not getting loans - they are paying cash.
the phones are ringing off the hook but can the callers really qualify now under real world, not crazy standards? Based on actual income, debt loads and assets? Is employment going to hold up?
“Is employment going to hold up?”
To which I would add…is employment going to grow? No further job growth at this point is just as destructive as layoffs. I wonder even from where it would come?
Exactly, I saw a report out from the Mortgage Bankers that said loan applications were up. Well guess what? Approvals were way down.
Just because people are applying doesn’t mean anything. What it tells me is people are getting really desperate to get into any kind of loan that can lower the payments. Maybe it’s the demand for ARM’s and 100% no doc liar financing, but the product is just not there anymore. The FREE markets took care of that.
sheeple will be sheeple but the money guys have been burned hard or are dead.
Does anyone know what effect, if any, all this is having on Tom Monaghan’s new Catholic city, Ave Maria and his university? I know the university and law school are in trouble because of his heavy-handed management, but is the town itself suffering as badly as the rest of the Florida market? Would be a shame if Tom lost his pizza fortune. Not.
My wife and I moved to a small rural county in north central Florida two years ago to work with the poor. Their ranks are growing dramatically here, and few have any money with which to purchase even a modest sized home. But the real estate companies are still promoting the “great opportunities” for investors here.
Thanks to Ben and all who make this site so informative.
You just can’t get through these FL articles without the classic Realtor lines:
“Not going any lower here”
“You’ll insult the sellers”
“We have great beaches and amenities”
Oh, and if Naples is now doing so great, when are they going to start releasing their numbers again??
I friend of mine who is a lender at a bank in SW FL had a Realtor come in a few days ago and drop their McMansion keys off on his desk…….
Who can afford postage these days?
““‘There is a buyer for every home,’ she said. ‘I don’t think it’s going to go any lower, and I think a lot of the buyers are insulting the sellers when they make some of these offers.”
Remember - be polite! Don’t insult the seller - make no offer at all. Let’em rot - it’s the polite thing to do.
I wonder how insulted the sellers will be when the sheriff comes in and throws their crap out on the curb.
that’s pretty funny
Perhaps they can move to Costa Rica?
There is a buyer for every home
This statement is so full of sh#t. She is confusing the new car business with the housing business.
Every new car built finds a buyer. Newly built cars do not sit without a driver for years. At the end of the model year they will discount as much as they have to move all of the metal.
But this is not the case with housing. In previous housing busts entire sub divisions have been razed, and this time around it won’t be any different.
“You’re not going to get a beachfront home for $300,000 unless you want to go to Costa Rica.’”
I’ll take that bet. I’m willing to wager that price gets cut in half.
Yeah, you can go to Texas, Mississippi, or I’d bet even the Florida panhandle and find tons of beachfront properties for less than $300K.
Costa Rica …Is THAT some 3rd world COUNTY, like the over by Naples, Florida USA ?
Costa Rica is paradise compared to the hell hole called Florida and I can’t stand those used house sellers whining about people offending them with a reasonable offer.
It’s still way way too early to buy. Wait until you have them begging you to take old houses off their hands.
“Costa Rica is paradise”
Don’t know about that… when I was there for 10 days a year ago 50% of the Americans/Canadians I ran into has either been mugged, robbed or hassled by dirty cops for bribes during their trip. They single out foreigners down there for crimes of opportunity.
Costa Rica is probably the 3rd or 4th nicest country in Central America. Good for surfing, but there are much cheaper places, like Dangerous Undertow (Honduras) and Bad Water (Nicaragua), and glitzier, more happening places, like Abundance of Fish (Panama).
Couger91s observations of Costa Rica apply doubly in Panama. Especially in the interior. Drive carefully. There is a crooked cop behind every tree just waiting for a gringo to make a mistake. They will be happy to take a bribe. Carry a laminated color copy of your drivers license with you because they want to confiscate yours and tell you you have to go to court in Panama City to get it back. That is not the law, but they will tell you it is unless you give them a bribe.
Maybe prospective tourists in Central America should carry 20 fake copies of their driver’s licenses, just in case.
Wait until the property is available from the local taxing authority for back taxes. There’s your bargain.
I know, WOT, but some of these outrageous click ads in Ben’s blog have got me ROTFFL.
Southern Homes wants you to skip lunch for one day and use your lunch money to get into a house:
“With $24, you can buy them lunch or a new home.”
“$24 moves you in.”
José6P: “María, ¿where do you want to have lunch today?”
María6P: Let’s skip lunch and get that dream house we always wanted instead. You know, ¿the one with the circular driveway?
José6P: Um, ¿circular driveway? María, I am not sure we can afford something like that.
María6P: It’s ok José. Our friend Suraida researched it. She says it’s as easy as skipping lunch today, and then we can use our saved lunch money as a down payment.
José6P: “COÑO, CARAJO!!!”
LOL
Arriba! Andale!
In space, no one can hear you scream.
What about the newlywed couples in FL that financed $100,000 weddings with the purchase of (a) house(s). Now that RE is no longer their source of never ending riches, are these people still married? Or are they dropping pair by pair?
I still look at my own experience. $35 wedding in a “wedding chapel” in the Gaslight District in San Diego. $75 “reception” at some watering hole I can’t even remember the name of. Wedding rings cost about $200 for both.
22rd anniversary next week. There’s been an argument or two but we’ll never get divorced.
Talk about getting divorced.
A couple I know are getting divorced. Why? Turns out she lost hundreds of thousands of $$ in a financial ‘puter scam from Russia. The FBI has located the perpetrator in Russia, but the money is prolly long gone.
The Russian guy sent her a check that was cashed by the local bank and the money credited into her account. Then she sent back a check for a lower sum of money.
He had no idea what was going on. Now they are out over 1/4 million dollars. Their solution is to divorce and transfer all of their commercial property to him to keep from losing it.
I cain’t believe married people would make major financial decisions on their own without letting their partner know anything about it.
I can’t believe that anyone, married or not, is stupid enough to fall for that old trick.
I have done that but it has never involved bank or wire fraud for heaven’s sake. That scam you mentioned should have been obvious to anyone who could let common sense rule over their greed.
As Saddam counseled his American captors, when choosing a wife make sure that she is “[...]neither too smart nor too dumb”. Too bad this guy violated the latter guideline.
He had no idea what was going on. Now they are out over 1/4 million dollars. Their solution is to divorce and transfer all of their commercial property to him to keep from losing it.
Wow! Solve a scam with a scam! Get “divorced” on paper to hide your assets. I’m not sure this will work, though. The debts were incurred while they were still married. The bank can and will get their money back. (In case you don’t follow the scam, the checks deposited were bad and ultimately bounced, even though the bank originally deposited the money to the account.)
it won’t work.
It might; under the fraudulent conveyance/transfer law. Clearly she’s transferring asset to an affiliate in anticipation of insolvency.
This scam has been going on for years, only the country changes. In fact I got a solicitation like that on my super secure/firewalled to the hilt work email last month.
Hard to believe there are idiots out there still falling for it.
Of course, it’s not much different from some of the real estate ponzi/flipper scams we are starting to see unveiled.
A local variation we see surface here is I can’t get my lotto money, check cashed, whatever - because I’m illegal and have no id - help me cash it and I’ll give you $$$. They usually target senior citizens.
Guess there will always be a % of the gene pool that will fall for greed’s siren song.
Old as the hills - the Pigeon Drop continues to find success. What happened to that woman? Craigslist warns about the same scan on every page of their site.
Txchick-
Congrats on 22 years. That is something to be proud of. Any pearls of wisdom to share?
Keep separate bank accounts. Have no kids. Have a life outside the marriage. Only thing that would have worked for me.
True story: my high school boyfriend is now worth 100M or so. I met him while tutoring math in high school. You could tell when he was 17 years old that he was going to be a go getter even though he wasn’t the brightest bulb on the tree. He wanted to get married right out of high school and had the money even by then to produce damned impressive diamond but I was not interested in that, nor in getting tied down that young, plus he was a very jealous and possessive type. Anyway, said “thanks but no thanks”. Found out last year he took his company public two years ago and is now in the 8 figures net worth wise. One of the wealthiest guys here that no one has ever heard of. I still think I made the right choice.
Why separate bank accounts? Especially after 22 years of marriage. Since we know several married couples who also do the same, I’d love to hear your reasoning. Thanks.
Cause most fights are caused over money. Throw all the bills on the table and each write a check for half.
Outside of his 8-figure worth, what happened to the ex-boyfriend?
My wife and I were married by a judge in the courthouse for just the cost of the license. At the time, we were saving every penny we could for a down payment on a house. That was 30 years ago.
I’ve noticed that the success of a marriage is often inversely proportional to the amount of money spent on the wedding.
$5 in Reno at the JP, followed by a week of camping. 27 years. Life is good.
LOL - We got married in Vegas, but we did stay at the Mirage
We had a beautiful reception a few days later in the back yard of my wife’s grandmothers yard.
Small local Portuguese church then a 100 yard walk around the corner to the American Legion hall for the reception for us….Wife still has the same engagement & wedding ring I purchased 36 years ago…
Chick, come to San Diego so we can have a blog fest.
Actually my 84 year old mom has tons in stocks and barely looks at her portfolio. Somehow I can’t see her selling any stocks out of fear.
From the bits bucket: “Florida: Real Estate - Devastated, Retail - Declining, Tourism - Going down, What’s left?”
Well, in a year or two it will be a great place for someone with few ties, dissolute morals, and a small stake (say $100K) however gotten to go on the lam for a while. Plenty of “free” housing if you can pick a lock. No need for heat, to heavy clothes. Plenty of seats available in the local bar. Occasional repo work.
“Wasting away again in Margaritaville.”
There are obviously very serious consequences for The Financial Gangsters Of Wall Street if they cheat, steal and deceive (as usual but more so recently) and the BBC is reporting what happens in just one area if they do cheat, steal and deceive. I’ve not read this in any US news papers (surprise) but the BBC is reporting that The Financial Gangster’s bonus payouts on Wall Street following the sheenanigans we have seen, will show them that, in the future, they should stay on the straight and narrow or accept the consequences for their crimes.
The consequences: Bonus payouts fell a hefty…….5%. (Sheeesh!) $33.2 billion was paid out. In fact, only a few lost some (not all) of their usual bonus payouts for stealing and looting.
However, where the top 5 Wall Street Financial Gangster family banks were concerned, they actually had an increase in bonus payouts for 2007. 9% higher that 2006. Like Mario Puzo wrote in The Godfather, “You can steal more money with a briefcase than you can with a gun.”
Next up, a photo-op of Paulson’s pals being awarded the Medal of Honor by Bush for their “contributions” to the US financial system.
Woody Guthrie said it better, and eariler:
Yes, as through this world I’ve wandered
I’ve seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.
There’s still *something* booming in Florida, and that’s Crime! It’s WAY up from 2006. I have to spend a lot of time in Florida on business, and it’s looking scarier and scarier. And statistics are coming in for 07 that are starting to back up the anecdotal reports from all the news stories.
All the kids of unemployed specu-flippers are guaranteed to become little petty criminals. They were brought up to believe the wrong things about money and wealth. With all those empty homes sitting around with good “mining” opportunities for scrap metal, that’ll be the first place they’ll start stealing from.
“There are too many vacant homes and speculation homes that people closed on. They’re doing anything they can to rent these properties.”
The ever falling rent is probably at a level that doesn’t even cover half of the PITI payment. Add in vacancies and maintenance, and you have serious “alligator” attacks of the real estate kind. Kind of fitting for Florida.
Along with high prices we also need to see amatuer landlords flushed out of the system. They are gumming up the works with their dramatic and protracted personal implosions.
“And we’re not talking about New York investors,’ Narkiewicz said. ‘Look around at the next barbeque and ask your neighbors how many homes they bought.”
So, in many cases, it’s not just one home per “owner” in the area at risk of default, but many per local “owner”, with people HELOCing their primary in order to cash in on the real estate boom.
There is bound to be LOTS of divorce, heavy drinking or suicides to go all with the bankruptcies and foreclosures.
Time to invest in a Law Firm that has a PAY AS YOU GO bar in it’s crematorium
“Just-released November occupancy rates were down in Manatee, Sarasota and Charlotte counties an average of 10.3 percent — a trend that was mirrored in other parts of the nation.”
So much for joe momma’s “rents are gona go up”.
“You’re not going to get a beachfront home for $300,000 unless you want to go to Costa Rica.”
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Here is how an older person has started to look at statements like that:
Why should I pay all that money for a static view of the ocean. The view never changes and eventually, you become numb to it. Do you know how many cruises I can take with 300k? I get all the food I can eat and my views from my balcony always change.
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The point I am trying to make here is that the mentality regarding real estate will change as the baby boomers retire.
‘Why should I pay all that money for a static view of the ocean.’
Especially in light of the opportunity to rent an identical unit for half or less. Who cares what things cost during the housing bubble?
Plus, housing on a beach goes to h#ll pretty fast.
“Why should I pay all that money for a static view of the ocean”
To brag to your friends and family that you “own” beach front property.
Beach front property in Florida - cost: your financial freedom.
The look of envy on your friends and family members faces as they learn that you own beach front property - priceless.
Part of “pride of pOwnership” has always been bragging rights.
Yep…..
I 100% agree Mr. V…..Wife and I came to that conclusion about 5 years ago when contemplating a 2nd home either on the beach or in the Sierra’s….We sat down and calculated it out and concluded it made absolutely no sense…We did not get caught up in the emotional aspect of “Having a place for us and the kids”…Purchased a Motor Home instead and are having a blast seeing many different places…
My family and I have each paid less than $200,000 for waterfront properties–a Florida Gulf-front cottage, and a Manhattan studio facing the Hudson River. Disparage the dream if you want by calling a gorgeous view “static” or your appreciation “numb”. But I highly recommend anyone grab an opportunity to own waterfront property if you get the chance at an affordable price. To me it’s really not about the bragging rights, but the peacefulness of an open space view, or beautiful sunset from the comfort of your home. Actually, a view of open land or a mountain range would be just as satisfying, I imagine.
“The Naples Area Board of Realtors reports sales of homes valued at $300,000 or less were up 33-percent in 2007.”
Yes, and this year no doubt sales of homes valued under “$200,000 will be up as well. For 2010 can we count on a boom in houses valued under $100,000?
Yes indeed signs of a turnaround all over the market. Mark Sievert even has people picking up his flyers.
Yes, the Naples UHS picked through the data and found a couple of segments that they could tout. Why the Naples News didn’t call them on it is beyond me.
I lived next to a place that was for sale for two years. Lots of people picked up the flyers the whole time. It finally sold when after several price cuts, the new broker got the flipper to seriously slash the asking.
Isn’t the Naples Area Board of Realtors the same group that stopped publishing sales numbers about a year ago, and prior to that, started omitting sales in less expensive areas in order to keep the comps high? Why would anybody believe anything these crooks had to say now?
Ten-to-one, fifty percent of its members sold Herbalife in the 1980s.
Ten-to-one, fifty percent of its surviving members will be selling some other MLM thing in the 2010s.
Good point! As people drop house prices, of course sales will be up on those under 300k! I guess it means inventory is decreasing? Oh, but they don’t let us see those numbers do they?
Anyone watching the 26+ condos auction in Naples, FL today (Sat Jan 19th) by Stirling Sotheby’s Realty? I wanted to see how the action is going and what prices are being fetched by they only allowed registered bidders with $10,000 deposit to watch it online.
“I wanted to see how the action is going and what prices are being fetched by they only allowed registered bidders with $10,000 deposit to watch it online.”
If a condo sells online but no one is online to see it…has it really sold?
“‘Oh there is plenty of interest. I see plenty of people coming around taking fliers. I put those fliers out and I probably get rid of 15 to 20 of them a week,’ said Sievert.”
This has got my macabre mind turning it’s gears. What a nice stunt it would be, to scan and print fliers of houses for sale in the ‘hood, and then stuff ‘em back into people’s
wazoo’scanisters.I spent a week down in Sun City Center, Florida to visit my father recently. He lives in St. Andrews Estates and there are many homes for sale or rent there and almost none of them are selling or finding tenants. There is also hidden inventory as my father tells me about empty neighboring homes where the owners live out of state and have no plans putting them on the market until it supposedly gets better. One house sold nearby but I heard that the owner died and left it to charity. The charity sold it immediately for whatever it could get and I am sure when the sale information becomes available it will destroy the comparables.
There is a lot of talk in the community about the dismal housing market and also the problems with the overall economy. I also noticed that several businesses have recently shut down and crime has risen.
This area should be somewhat recession resistant given the large number of retirees who live there but that is not what is happening. It is clear that these retirees are not immune and that does not bode well for those non-retirees dependant upon jobs in Florida.
With the retirees, how much of their investment portfolios are in S&P 500 index funds and large cap stocks? A bear market will get them nervous and they’ll cut back spending. Might even forego the early-bird dinner specials!
Actually, more will begin eating earlier, to take advantage of those specials, driving down the earnings of the restaurant and its employees. Pretty soon, they’ll be shutting down at 6!
“‘And we’re not talking about New York investors,’ Narkiewicz said. ‘Look around at the next barbeque and ask your neighbors how many homes they bought. That’s a big part of the problem.’”
You don’t have to ask which of your neighbors bought houses to flip - they’re the ones who brought squirrels or rat kabob to the barbeque.
Looks like the Countrywide deal is dead with BAC. Go read the WSJ. Market crash soon folks. CFC is toast without them. This will be a black swann for housing
Case in Point;
We had been renting in Ormond Bch, Fl. @ Plantation Bay, an upscale golfing community with 3 courses & 1500 houses…
The flippers got in there and did their number…BIG TIME..
Anyway, the neighbor across the street got a good job with a Fortune 500 company up in CONNETICUT, and they bought his house from him, and bailed him out….He had paid $250K [10/'05] for a 3/2/2 townhouse house, & had $200K mtg….That was fall of 2006…
The house remained for sale for more than 1 year, dropping the price regularly..I noted, it finally closed last week for…. [drum roll pls]………$185K…..The new owner has a $155K mtg…