January 25, 2008

The Housing Adjustment Is Underway, But Not Finished

The Billings Gazette reports from Montana. “Since Hassan Kangarloo swept into Billings last May to buy the bankrupt Northern Hotel, he has managed to tangle the relatively simple sale into a complex web of debts. The Livingston Guest House Motel would be gutted and remodeled into classy residential and office condos, Kangarloo said. The ground floor interior is unfinished and so are most of the condos. Half a dozen Montana contractors have filed liens to collect more than $207,000 in unpaid debts.”

“Kangarloo blames his troubles on Montana contractors he claims have overcharged or stolen from him, as well as the nation’s current stumbling economy. ‘Unfortunately, it’s not just me,’ he recently told The Gazette. ‘The entire nation is going through a tough time in the financial markets.I ‘ve got to stop some of these losses because they think that I’m a rich boy coming up from California.’”

“Meanwhile, Kangarloo has defaulted on a six-month loan and owes $600,000 to a company headed by city native Carter Boehm. ‘Hassan came to Montana thinking I jumped off a turnip truck,’ Boehm said. ‘What he didn’t know is I own a fleet of turnip trucks.’”

The Idaho Statesman. “Doug and Becky Langford have had their home in the Meridian Heights subdivision on the market for almost a year. Doug Langford, a financial adviser with Beneficial Financial Group, admits their first mistake was wasting the first six months trying to sell their 1,762-square-foot, ranch-style home themselves.”

“The couple, who have since moved to Ogden, Utah, are still making mortgage payments on the property. It has not received a single offer, despite the Langfords’ decision to slash the original $220,000 price to $209,000, he said.”

“‘And there’s a good chance that we’re going to cut the price again,’ Langford said.”

“Meanwhile, the couple, who are expecting their first child, are renting a basement apartment while they wait for their home to sell. But at $209,000, the house is still priced well above its assessed value of $185,000, according to the Ada County assessor’s office.”

“Langford said selling the house will not end his problems. He said the couple owe $225,000 on the home. They purchased it using an 80/20 financing plan that amounts to two mortgages.”

“So, if the Langfords sell for $200,000, they will still need to take out a $25,000 loan to pay off the second mortgage. ‘That’s why I listed it at the price I did,’ Langford said. ‘I didn’t want to take out a $25,000 loan, and get nothing for it.’”

The Oregonian. “Umpqua Bank followed the lead of several other Northwest banks Thursday and reported a big increase in troubled loans. The bank’s total nonperforming assets soared from $9 million a year ago to $98 million at the close of 2007.”

“The collapse of the housing bubble has taken a significant toll on Oregon banks, where loan loss provisions in the fourth quarter alone are approaching $80 million.”

“About 75 percent of the loans now lumped in the troubled category as nonperforming assets are loans to residential developers, said Ron Farnsworth, Umpqua’s senior VP for finance. Umpqua’s performance has been hurt by an ill-timed expansion into Northern California.”

“About 73 percent of the bank’s troubled loans are in California, Farnsworth said.”

The Bend Bulletin from Oregon. “A bank foreclosure on a 38-acre chunk of land in northeast Bend has dropped land costs to the point where a group of Bend developers say they’ll be able to sell new houses again this summer for as little as $189,900 apiece, or a little more than half the 2007 median Bend sale price of $349,000.”

“Whether buyers will buy remains to be seen: At the moment, they’re not snapping up Bend houses very quickly at any price.”

“Developer Jay Audia said he and his partners are confident that they’ve found a price range that will attract first-time buyers to a market that was skewed by a three-year bubble that pushed local home prices to record heights, at least partly due to soaring land prices.”

“‘I see a lot of people trying to find a bottom,’ Audia said Tuesday. ‘They’re dropping their prices maybe $5,000 here, then $10,000 there. But we’re jumping ahead of the market, and this is going to find the market.’”

The Register Guard from Oregon. “Some of Lane County’s housing sales figures for last year look pretty nasty — pending sales down 14.8 percent, closed deals down 11.7 percent.”

“While things aren’t as good as they were, they’re not as bad as they might have been, say Randal and Cindy Whipple, a husband-and-wife team of brokers in Eugene.”

“‘Like many other parts of the country, we have suffered some setbacks, some price erosion, in some areas,’ Randal Whipple said. ‘We did have about 40 percent (increase) over a three-year time period, and there’s no getting around it, in some segments of the market we’re seeing some lowering of prices.’”

“Rising and falling home prices don’t mean much to people who don’t plan to buy or sell a home, Cindy Whipple said.”

“For people in that situation, ‘the changes in price are like monopoly money,’ she said. ‘It’s just a question of, ‘Do I feel richer or poorer?’ but it doesn’t really change anything for them. It’s only meaningful if they decide to buy or sell property.’”

The Curry Pilot from Oregon. “‘It Does Not Get More Exciting!’ said Regional economist Dr. John Mitchell’s opening slide for his keynote address at the annual Business Outlook Conference. This year’s appearance by Mitchell was underwritten by Umpqua Bank.”

“Mitchell’s prediction was for continued economic expansion through 2008, including continued ’slow growth’ in Oregon.”

“Given the trouble with the housing industry, Mitchell spent time explaining how the housing boom has been unwinding. There have been declines in construction, lowering of prices, changes in expectations, changes in regulations and tighter credit.”

“‘Housing adjustment is underway,’ he said, ‘but not finished.’”

“‘For Curry County,’ he added in a local review, ‘I suspect the weakness of the California real estate market spills over to here, but remember that the baby boomers have started to retire.’”

The Oregon City News. “Despite years of planning, with visioning drawings of renovated buildings and tree-lined streets, the plan to revitalize Milwaukie’s downtown core might be less feasible than many in the city had hoped.”

“‘When you get into an area like the Pearl District where the achievable rate is $600 to $700 per square foot, you start to think that it’s because of mixed use’ amenities in the area, said Jerry Johnson, of Johnson Gardner LLC. ‘The belief is that if there’s amenities like grocers, theaters, night clubs close by, people will pay more for housing.’”

“‘Rent levels in the area are seen to be well below what is necessary to support mid-rise construction,’ the report said.”

“‘You want to make the area more attractive so you can charge more for the area. You can develop that by generating activity downtown so it’s a place people actually want to be,’ he said. ‘The problem is it’s the chicken and the egg – you’ve got to get people interested in investing downtown,’ but to do that you’ve got to get people downtown.”

The Daily News from Washington. “It’s been one year since developer Todd Nicholson offered the city of Kelso $1.1 million for 9 acres of riverfront property across from Three Rivers Golf Course, but the sale still hasn’t closed - and it may not for six months.”

“The cooling housing market has prompted Nicholson to retool his vision. His original plan was to build 240 upscale condominium units. Now, Nicholson thinks it would be ’safer’ to build 60 to 70 single-family, unattached townhouses on narrow lots ’so we can absorb two or three years of really horrible sales,’ he said.”

The News Tribune. from Washington. “The weakening housing market coupled with tighter financing standards took their toll this week on two major projects on Tacoma’s Thea Foss Waterway. Developer Bob Thurston has told the Foss board that his bank wants him to sell half of the condominiums before it releases construction funding for the building.”

“Thurston changed the design when the condo market in Tacoma and the nation was hot and the hotel market was lukewarm. With home sales now weakening, it would be easier to finance a building that had no condo component, he has said.”

“Regarding the proposed office-residential building near the bridge, Prium general counsel Matt Sweeney said the ‘tremendous uncertainty’ in the market is slowing Prium’s plan to build a new Foss building.”

“The developer hasn’t been pressuring the state to expedite permits because the market is weak, Sweeney said. ‘I didn’t see any advantage in saying run run run when things were getting bad bad bad,’ said Sweeney.”

The Olympian from Washington. “A free workshop Wednesday night will cover investment opportunities that can result from South Sound’s growing mortgage foreclosure trend. Thurston County auditor’s records show mortgage foreclosure notices rose to 662 last year, a 52 percent increase over the number in 2006.”

“‘A year ago, we would see only about four sales a month,’ said Paulette Roswall, branch manager of Liberty Financial Group in Tumwater. ‘Now we see four a week that go to foreclosure.’”

The Seattle PI from Washington. “Last year was, in many ways, two different years for the Seattle-area housing market. There’s one market from January through July, when steady year-over-year increases in home inventory and declining sales didn’t keep the median King County house price from posting double-digit increases.”

“Then came August, when skittish lenders tightened mortgage standards, making it harder to get a loan, and investors pulled out of the mortgage market.”

“King County had enough homes on the market in most of early 2007 to last less than three months, given the sales pace at the time. The supply topped six months in September through November and seven months in December.”

“December’s supply hit nearly nine months in Snohomish County, 11 months in Pierce County, 11.5 months in Kitsap County and 13 months in Skagit County.”

“The psychological effect of the credit crunch went beyond its actual effect, said Jill Jacobi Wood, president of Windermere Real Estate. ‘I just think the buyers just kind of went ’snap,’ deciding to wait for the market to bottom out, she said.”

“Glenn Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research at Washington State University, theorized that the median prices earlier in 2007 were masking some softness because buyers were getting more for their money, rather than spending less.”

“‘Finally, it got to the point where they were able to afford all they wanted and spend less money, too,’ he said.”




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99 Comments »

Comment by JoJo
2008-01-25 11:21:17

““Langford said selling the house will not end his problems. He said the couple owe $225,000 on the home. They purchased it using an 80/20 financing plan that amounts to two mortgages.”

“So, if the Langfords sell for $200,000, they will still need to take out a $25,000 loan to pay off the second mortgage. ‘That’s why I listed it at the price I did,’ Langford said. ‘I didn’t want to take out a $25,000 loan, and get nothing for it.’”

When are these people going to get it through their skulls that the buyer is not responsible for bailing them out of their bad financial decisions?

Comment by In Colorado
2008-01-25 11:24:41

Doug Langford, a financial adviser with Beneficial Financial Group

How did he learn to be a “financial adviser”? At the Velvet Jones School of Technology? One would think that a “professional” like Mr Langford would understand the pitfalls of 80/20 financing?

Comment by Darrell_in _PHX
2008-01-25 11:30:50

Financial advisor = salesman.

Comment by scdave
2008-01-25 11:41:40

Since this post has information regarding Bend Or., I don’t recall ever seeing any poster that is from the Bend area…I would sure be interested in hearing from someone if you are from that area…I have followed the market there for a couple of years now…

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Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 12:36:26

Go here: http://www.bendbubble2.blogspot.com. You’ll find it entertaining, to say the least.

 
Comment by PopGoesBend
2008-01-25 14:20:17

I read regularly, but don’t post much. The other place to check out is http://bendeconomy.informe.com/ .

Bend is really hurting these days. Sales numbers have dropped to 1990s levels when the population was 40% of today, so really sales levels are 40% of 1997 levels per capita. Inventory is up around 15-20 months depending if you use the last 6 or 3 months as the sales levels. Prices dropped 15% in the good parts of town last year, and if you bought in one of the outlying areas you can expect 20% down.

January appears to be the worst (er, best? I sold and am renting) month to date. So far only 42 homes have sold with a median of 288k, which puts us on track for about 55-60 sales this month.

Last year we averaged 126 sales per month with a median of
345k.

2006 averaged 172 sales per month at 351k median. 2005 averaged 237 salse per month with a median of 280k.

So we are looking at 2005 medians but only 1/4th the sales, and about 20 months supply of homes. Um…

A few properties are being listed at 65% of their 2006 sales price and aren’t moving. Most houses are listed around, or just a bit below their 2006 sales prices. Some sellers think they can get more than their 2006 prices. Really tough to figure out why nothing is moving.

 
Comment by scdave
2008-01-25 15:12:56

Thanks…Both of you….

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 17:56:16

There’s really no work out there. I have friends there (coming over to visit this weekend, actually) who are long-time business people over there. They are fine; they have their jobs. When we visited two years ago when all these new subdivisions were going in, I thought, Where are these people going to work? It’s not like they can commute to Portland. And the summers are very short. Much as I like the beauty of the high desert, I could never live there while working -

 
Comment by chewy
2008-01-25 22:17:42

I lived in Redmond just north of Bend from “05″ thru “06″. So far I have tracked 116 houses that are in the forclousure process.
So far only 8 have been worked out with the lender, 42 have gone to auction and of those only 3 have been sold to a third party the rest have gone back to the bank. Just today the house across the street from where I lived recieved a NOD. My wife and I wondered just how long that would last since they never could afford window coverings. They purchased in 7/06 for approx 239k, refied a year later for 314k and now they are kaput.
According to the National City report Bend is the #1 over valued housing market in the country of course anyone with ties to real estate will tell you that it is different in Bend. PDF warning https://www.nationalcity.com/content/main/micro-site/economics/commentary-analysis/pages/documents/3Q2007Report.pdf
If history is any indication of what is in store for Bend just look at where Naples Fl. and Merced Ca. are now. #1 & #2 in “05″. By the way I am in Brookings Curry Co. Or. now and it is just as bad if not worse over here. The local Ford dealership just recently closed down and several rstaurants are closed.
Thanks to Ben and the rest of you bloggers we heeded the warning signs of the housing bubble POP! and made sure that we would not become a statistic.

Best of luck to all
Chewy

 
 
Comment by dannll
2008-01-25 12:49:29

exactly…FA my a**, they’re just there to make a commission. Period. Your financial well being is not their concern. And this guy is a good example of what you get for your money…

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Comment by In Colorado
2008-01-25 13:00:47

I recall reading somewhere once that an FA is an individual who will invest, and reinvest your money until its all gone.

 
 
 
Comment by Brandon
2008-01-25 11:33:27

Financial advisor is a stretch- Beneficial is a step away from a payday loan place. It’s the kind of place that will loan $2000 at 29% interest.

Anyways- this place is a few miles from my house. They might as well mail the keys to the bank because they will NEVER get anything near what they are asking. It’s a 15 yo neighborhood full of small 1200-1500 sq ft homes and it’s by a trailer park.

FYI- the home is now listed on the MLS for 204k.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-01-25 11:38:36

Isn’t this the place that once had a theme song that went, “At Beneficial, toot-toot! You get more-more!”

Some of my junior high school classmates had a field day with that one. And, no, I can’t post their variations on the Bennie-theme here. This is a family blog, after all.

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Comment by combotechie
2008-01-25 12:14:02

“Some of my junior high school classmates had a field day with that one.”

This is an indication of an ideal commercial; one that causes listeners to repeat over and over verbally and mentally the company’s name.
It makes little difference if what they are saying/thinking is a parody; the idea is to get the company’s name out into the pubic realm.

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-01-25 12:24:13

pubic = public (but I kinda like it as pubic)

 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-01-25 12:33:17

What’s in your wallet?

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-01-25 13:01:46

The neatest trick of all for advertisers is to convince the masses that they should BUY t-shirts with a company’s logo printed on it so the wearers will in effect become walking billboards that promote the company’s name.

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 14:20:46

Yes… I’m a Harley rider (Sportster 1200R, some will say that’s a girl’s bike - whatever). I own one item that says “Harley-Davidson” on it - the T-shirt they gave me when I bought my bike.
I try never to buy clothes etc. with logos.

It IS a great bike, though. Fit and finish are first-rate, and prices are soft now too.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-25 14:43:01

S.W.A.G. =

something with a graphic

 
 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-01-25 12:00:28

He’s currently living in a basement apartment. LOL. That’s the kind of guy I want advising me on finance.

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-01-25 12:50:39

I have to at least give him some credit for renting instead of buying a house BEFORE the old one sells. Most stories you hear about are of families that put the old house up on the chopping block, then moved to another state and bought a second home before the first one sold. We get A LOT of Floridians in TN that did exactly that because they automatically assumed that the FL house would sell, leading them to a life of riches. For many, the plan hasn’t exactly worked out.

Comment by Not_In_Montana
2008-01-25 15:12:25

He probably needed a down pmt this time.

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Comment by packman
2008-01-25 14:51:30

At least he doesn’t live in a … VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER.

 
Comment by Jason
2008-01-25 17:55:07

Exactly the kind of keeping up with the jones’ attitude that got us into this mess. I hope you were being sarcastic.

 
 
Comment by Roger H
2008-01-25 12:57:52

Here’s an idea:

Doug and his wife “invested” zero dollars moving in - so if they walk away, they loose nothing. Pretty soon, a lot of people whom are in similar situations will find out that walking away is not really much of a loss after all. The monthly mortgage payments went mostly to interest - equivalent to rent not equity.

 
Comment by Ian
2008-01-25 14:29:29

“‘I didn’t want to take out a $25,000 loan, and get nothing for it.’”

You, my friend, are like those idiots who think it’s okay to charge X amount cause their needs for money are at Y… the little detail missing here is what the market actually wants to offer you.

It’s like a masseuse who thinks her services are worth $500 an hour without those little xxxtras….

 
 
Comment by Mr_Dave_O
2008-01-25 11:28:56

“It has not received a single offer, despite the Langfords’ decision to slash the original $220,000 price to $209,000, he said.”

Since when is a 5% reduction considered “slashing the price”?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-01-25 11:35:55

Hey, come on Dave-O, go easy on him. He’s a financial advisor, after all.

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-01-25 11:38:27

Yeah, financial advisors are not usually good at things like, fractions, percentages, or really numbers in general.

How absolutely terrifying.

 
 
Comment by phillygal
2008-01-25 12:55:20

It’s the kind of slash created by tiny little manicure scissors.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-01-25 11:34:13

“Since Hassan Kangarloo swept into Billings last May to buy the bankrupt Northern Hotel, he has managed to tangle the relatively simple sale into a complex web of debts.”

Dang those Asian-Australian equity locusts…

Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2008-01-25 11:54:03

“Since Hassan Kangarloo swept into Billings last May to buy the bankrupt Northern Hotel, he has managed to tangle the relatively simple sale into a complex web of debts.”

Yessssss… The return of the nefarious Captain Kangarloo…

Comment by Al
2008-01-25 12:00:22

He must be hopping mad about the situation.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-01-25 12:05:21

Guys, stop it. You’re making me laugh too hard.

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Comment by CAsellerCOrenter
2008-01-25 12:11:13

“Meanwhile, Kangarloo has defaulted on a six-month loan and owes $600,000 to a company headed by city native Carter Boehm. ‘Hassan came to Montana thinking I jumped off a turnip truck,’ Boehm said. ‘What he didn’t know is I own a fleet of turnip trucks.’”

see Carter jump
jump Carter jump

How many times do you have jump off a turnip truck to get
to the bottom of the market?

We are in serious trouble folks, serious trouble.

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Comment by Blano
2008-01-25 12:34:28

Carter is getting Boehm’d up the wazoo on this one, for sure.

 
 
 
Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2008-01-25 13:28:56

he has managed to tangle the relatively simple sale into a complex web of debts

Tie me kangarloo down, mate.

 
 
 
Comment by smf
2008-01-25 11:34:16

“…as well as the nation’s current stumbling economy…”

What about the high prices? What about doing a study of whether people want to actually LIVE in a condo when other options are available?

In early 2005, I was notified by an investment home builder that the condo market was dead. Why did others not do a study to figure out what people actually WANT to purchase?

This was similar to the dot.com bust, when many thought that people would buy sooo much from the internet, making their current valuations valid. It was only after the bust that it was realized that people actually like to go out shopping, and touch what they want to purchase.

 
Comment by Brandon
2008-01-25 11:36:58

“A free workshop Wednesday night will cover investment opportunities that can result from South Sound’s growing mortgage foreclosure trend”

does the workshop cover knife-catching?

Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-01-25 11:39:21

Free entry to anyone who shows up in a sequin covered bunny outfit.

Ta-da!

 
 
Comment by Groundhogday
2008-01-25 11:47:54

$265k/acre for land in Bend. Lots from the mid 30k range? These must be itty bitty little lots… So WOW affordable housing equals 1000 sq ft 2/1.5 on a postage stamp with the cheapest possible construction for $200k. Sign me UP! And I’ll bet that this 1000 sq ft house will rent for $800/mo in Bend, OR.

Wake me when prices fall another 50% from this “bottom”.

 
Comment by gascap
2008-01-25 11:48:41

I went to Fannie’s site and used the calculator to see how much I can afford with a 100,000 salary, answer was $474,000 with a $3800 mortgage payment!! Can anyone confirm that max DTI is actually 45% for Fannie/Freddie loans?? This is ridiculous, how exactly does someone with a $6000 takehome pay supposed to “afford” a $3800 mortgage payment? No wonder this country is so messed up when the goverment itself encourages such reckless borrowing.

Comment by Freshman
2008-01-25 11:57:18

I went there to, it spit out for my numbers a payment of about 50% of gross (pre-tax) salary, and around 70% of take home. This was based on a normal 30 year fixed note.

It worked out to a loan around 5x gross yearly income. Someone would have to be idiotic to take (or even make) such a loan. Oh well, c’est la vie.

Comment by arroyogrande
2008-01-25 12:13:35

“It worked out to a loan around 5x gross yearly income”

If you think that’s crazy, houses in California were going for 6x to 14x gross yearly income (based on average incomes for the areas)…ruh-roe, I guess there will be very little of the new JumbForming loans for California…

 
 
Comment by Groundhogday
2008-01-25 11:59:07

yep, I was told by our “conservative” credit union lending agent that they “try” to keep PI to gross monthly income ratios below 45% ! “Try”!!! And they wonder why people as having trouble paying loans back.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-01-25 12:07:28

Let me guess. Because they’re being given loans that they shouldn’t be getting?

 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-01-25 12:38:24

“how exactly does someone with a $6000 takehome pay supposed to “afford” a $3800 mortgage payment?”

By focusing on “core” items like your house and ignoring “non-core” items like food and energy. Problem solved.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-01-25 14:25:49

I suppose that your take home pay would increase somewhat, after writing off close to 50K in interest and property taxes. Not enough to make it affordable though.

 
 
Comment by JohnF
2008-01-25 12:40:36

Just wait a few months and you’ll be able to get a $700,000 loan on $100,000 in income that Fannie will buy to take your lender off the hook….your government, hard at work…..

Comment by Wilson
2008-01-25 13:58:21

Hopefully, the drop in savings rates and the requirement for down payments will combine to make housing more affordable in spite of the politicians’ best efforts…

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-01-26 00:18:09

Let’s watch all the seniors get 700k reverse mtgs. Sounds good to me. Get $5500 per month ? I’ll have to call. Don’t have to pay it back until you go to the rest home or mortuary. hehehehehehe

 
 
 
Comment by Lisa
2008-01-25 11:56:22

“I went to Fannie’s site and used the calculator to see how much I can afford with a 100,000 salary, answer was $474,000 with a $3800 mortgage payment!!”

Is the $474K the home purchase price, less your down payment? How much would you actually be financing in this “affordable” scenario?

Comment by gascap
2008-01-25 12:07:28

It spits out a table depending on interest rate, but that was pretty much amount financed. My brain shut down trying to figure out how I would feed and clothe my children in addition to a $4,000/mortgage payment! Anyone who thinks we’ve returned to traditional guidelines is crazy when the govt guarantees these loans.

Comment by Brian in Chicago
2008-01-25 13:39:08

I’m curious if anyone on the HBB actually spends that much on their monthly housing costs. My wife and I spend about 14% of our take home pay on an apartment and think it’s overpriced (but we pay it because the location can’t be beat). I think I would die if I had to pay more.

Comment by Tim
2008-01-25 14:08:08

My rent (including utilities) and car payments are less than 5% of my gross pay. I guess I’m an odd duck. Hell, I even buy what’s on sale at the grocery store, even if i dont like the brand as much. Im somewhat OCD.

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Comment by de
2008-01-25 14:21:04

I pay about 18% of take home on principle, interest, taxes and insurance. Live deep in flyover country (south western Indiana)

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Comment by athena
2008-01-25 14:30:43

my rent is about 15% of my takehome pay and I like it this way. I don’t plan to buy unless the payment is no more of 25% of my take home.

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Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 17:57:56

We spend more but pay extra on our 30-yr. fixed mortgage. We pay about 30%, but that’s after twin 15% 401 (k) deductions.

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Comment by Nozferatu
2008-01-25 12:01:30

I’m sorry for posting this again but I was afraid since this is a new thread, people won’t answer it on the last one:

What does everyone think of the Vancouver, CA housing market? What do you think will happen there?

Read this article….

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/business/story.html?id=6891d3a7-03dd-43dc-b3e2-0d49c411b509&p=1

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-01-25 12:11:19

This will get you close

http://www.victoriastruth.blogspot.com/

 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-01-25 12:15:19

Thought there was a Vancouver, Calif for a moment..

Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 12:39:19

Wow, I thought they were different…

 
 
 
Comment by stanleyjohnson
2008-01-25 12:02:19

what happens when fed rate is 0% and Wall street wants to Fed to lower rate even more?
has there ever been a time when Fed would pay people to borrow money so they could spend it?

Comment by Rally
2008-01-25 13:16:59

“what happens when fed rate is 0% and Wall street wants to Fed to lower rate even more?
has there ever been a time when Fed would pay people to borrow money so they could spend it? ”

I will borrow 100 trillion dollars and live off the interest.

Comment by DrChaos
2008-01-25 14:05:38

“what happens when fed rate is 0% and Wall street wants to Fed to lower rate even more?
has there ever been a time when Fed would pay people to borrow money so they could spend it? ”

I will borrow 100 trillion dollars and live off the interest.

dude, that’s known as “carry trade”. you have to use a different currency of course.

people did borrow 100 trillion yen and live off the interest, invested in GBP, AUD, NZD, etc.

sometimes it does blow up though.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-25 14:52:33
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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-01-25 12:03:55

‘You want to make the area more attractive so you can charge more for the area. You can develop that by generating activity downtown so it’s a place people actually want to be,’

Artifically creating a thriving streetscape is near to impossible. The chamber of commerce in my neighborhood, an old established neighborhood, constantly battles to attract new businesses and services and breathe life into the area - they have been at it for decades. What it takes to create such lively urban centers is far beyond the understanding of these developers - yet they’ve tried it in every corner of the country, and it’s always part of some darn condo scheme. Enough already.

Comment by New in NM
2008-01-25 14:14:34

Funny. The city council where I am is certain that putting in a new strip mall with a Target or Walmart is going to revitalize downtown - which currently consists of a bunch of run down strip malls with plenty of empty storefronts. What’s more is that they’re planning to give the developer sweet incentives (aka my money) to do it.

Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 14:24:38

You can get one cheap in Elk Grove, CA (by Excremento)… Wally World and Lowe’s are both backing out of new buildings there, and a mall being built won’t now be completed until 2009 (source: Sacto. Business Journal)

 
 
Comment by ronin
2008-01-25 16:26:38

In most cases this is just a scheme to transfer public funds to developers. Everyone probably knows the ‘new life’ ideal is a longshot, but it is a necessary front to sell the deal to the public. The developer makes out, completes the development, and moves on to the next public-fund project.

And hey if the ‘new life’ thing is actually successful, that’s kind of nice, too.

 
 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-01-25 12:09:08

From the article, the Billings condo guy also has a project in Livingston, MT. Livingston is pretty, but also tiny, isolated, and incredibly windy all year. Check this out:

Nonetheless, beginning last June, Kangarloo managed to sell nine residential condos averaging 300 square feet for around $79,000 each.

Bank of America, which is writing off at least $3 billion in the subprime mortgage mess, financed all but one of the Livingston sales. A Helena bar owner paid cash, three units were sold to a former Livingston woman now living in San Francisco, a Livingston title company bought one, and the rest were purchased by Californians.

Speculation on 300sf condos in rural Montana, thanks Californians!

Then there’s this, reposted from the bit bucket. This is a riot, in today’s Billings Gazette:

Big box retailers such as Cabela’s, Kohl’s Department Store and Sportsman’s Warehouse and businesses like GE Commercial Finance are expected to create hundreds of jobs in Billings, likely drawing new residents into the community, their boosters say.

“At a minimum, there’s 2,000 new jobs,” said Ron Elkin of NAI Business Properties. “Billings won’t be impacted in any meaningful way if the national economy goes into recession.”

Hmmm.. and Californians canceling condo projects and fleecing contractors isn’t a meaningful impact? Billings already lost jobs last year from Wells Fargo mortgage center layoffs.

But this is the best. A headline in the very same edition:

Citi closing Great Falls [MT] mortgage office

80 jobs lost. But there’s no local impact from the recession!

Comment by Brandon
2008-01-25 12:23:04

“Big box retailers such as Cabela’s, Kohl’s Department Store and Sportsman’s Warehouse and businesses like GE Commercial Finance are expected to create hundreds of jobs in Billings, likely drawing new residents into the community, their boosters say.”

Woohoo! $8-$12 an hour jobs! These type of jobs are also what the Boise cheerleaders claim to form a strong job market. I think Boise has become the the call center and retail job capital of the Intermountain West.

Comment by Bub Diddley
2008-01-25 12:52:13

Also, companies like Cabela’s really make more money from their tax breaks than they do from the profits of the actual business. Communities give them massive tax breaks to build a store, and this makes up the bulk of their profits and is their real business, rather than sporting goods. Meanwhile any local sporting goods store that actually paid their taxes goes under.

More socialism for the rich, paid for by the working and middle class.

Comment by cayo_ron
2008-01-25 14:31:24

How do they “make” money from tax breaks?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Bub Diddley
2008-01-25 15:15:49

Sorry, I guess “subsidy” might be more accurate. But whatever you may call it, sales tax is charged at point of purchase but never collected, while other existing businesses have to pay that tax. Instead of going to the government, the tax revenue goes toward paying the operating costs of that store.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-01-25 12:54:16

What? You’re taking the call center mantle away from Tucson?

 
Comment by ronin
2008-01-25 16:31:10

I guess all these new jobholders at Kohls are expected to spend all that new money at Cabelas, and v.v.

Building and opening new retail during a retail fallback in the economy is interesting.

 
 
Comment by Groundhogday
2008-01-25 12:25:10

Here are a few houses from my old neighborhood in Bozeman, MT.

Vacant and on the market for 2+ years now. No price change.
http://www.heartmontana.com/sitepages/pid19.php

A “no remodel” flip that was purchased in 2006 for $650k, put back on the market for $700k+ and now sits at $600k.
http://www.heartmontana.com/sitepages/pid19.php

A Bozeman house that has been flipped twice. Sold originally for $300k in 2002/2003 (we thought it was an absurd price) and after two flips now asking $800k for almost a year.
http://www.heartmontana.com/sitepages/pid19.php

NOTHING is selling in Bozeman, but there are still minimal price drops. Delusion must inhaled with that clean mountain air…

Comment by AZtoORtoCOtoOR
2008-01-25 14:53:46

Ted should start bailing these folks out, tear the houses down to give the buffalo more room to roam.

 
Comment by Bloz
2008-01-25 20:29:05

It’s a tight knit group up there. It won’t be this year, but next when capitulation comes. But it will break and break hard.

 
 
 
Comment by wawawa
2008-01-25 12:35:15

There is a fire at Monte Carlo casino in Las Vegas, watch the CNN. Looks like the fire is getting out of hand.

Comment by reuven
2008-01-25 13:29:24

Wow! And I’m there next week for PMA!

 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2008-01-25 13:56:10

I didn’t know that the Monte Carlo was about to get foreclosed on!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-01-25 14:16:26

Damn, that’s the only place I seem to always do well at blackjack!

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-25 13:34:34

“Hassan Kangarloo”

Is that code for “Australian Terrorist”?

 
Comment by BW
2008-01-25 14:04:12

The Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll out last night on how Americans feel about the economy has at least two interesting results.

The poll found that even though nearly 80 percent of Americans thought there’d be a recession within the year, a majority also felt their own economic situations were just fine.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/poll_recession_monster_not_sca.html

What do people think about this?

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-01-25 14:20:17

Simple, most of those polled probably haven’t lived through - or have long since forgotten - a really bad downturn. It has been more than 25 years after all - that’s a long time by today’s standards.

They need to run this poll again each year for the next five years. Then we’ll see how many feel “safe”.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-01-25 14:46:43

I remember working part-time at the minimum wage in Pittsburgh back in 1983. This was the only job I could find after several months of looking, and I wasn’t the only one pounding the pavements. Having a college degree made no difference. There were plenty of us working menial jobs. And hating them.

 
 
Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-01-25 14:21:56

Every “economic perception” poll that I’ve seen always shows that people believe they’re in good shape no matter what they expect is going to happen to the economy.

I wonder if these polls are done face-to-face, or over the phone, as opposed to written questionnaire.

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-01-25 14:27:03

Those are the same people who are OK with getting rid of the so-called “death tax,” because they’re SURE they will have to pay it (though less than 1% actually do). Ever the optimist, those Americans…

Comment by HARM
2008-01-25 18:13:20

“Don’t forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor.”
–John Dickinson (charcter from play “1776″)

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-01-25 14:12:00

“Since Hassan Kangarloo swept into Billings last May to buy the bankrupt Northern Hotel, he has managed to tangle the relatively simple sale into a complex web of debts. The Livingston Guest House Motel would be gutted and remodeled into classy residential and office condos, Kangarloo said. The ground floor interior is unfinished and so are most of the condos. Half a dozen Montana contractors have filed liens to collect more than $207,000 in unpaid debts.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVFt5sS4gRE

(perhaps the best guitarist of our age?)

Comment by aladinsane
 
 
Comment by Joe G
2008-01-25 14:22:54

For all you Southern Californian’s, check out the resignation of Vineyard Bank’s CEO. No reason was given. They are due to report earnings next Thursday.

The company has had some problems with Inland Empire home builders, but the bulk of its portfolio is in “Coastal” residential construction loans.

Their signs are virtually on every tear down lot under construction in the South Bay beach cities. If they are starting to have major problems there it could be a nice warning shot for significant problems at the high-end.

Stock is down big today.

 
Comment by Shelby
2008-01-25 14:29:06

Hassan Kangarloo - this is an Iranian name
Must have brought his $$ from the old Country when the Shah left

 
Comment by shadow7
2008-01-25 15:05:24

It is up to the sellers and builders now, the ball has landed squarely in their court, with rates now at a very respectable level if prices come down then a recovery can happen much sooner then later?

 
Comment by newb1
2008-01-25 15:48:33

Forgive the off-topic question:

Is there some sort of organized web site that is set up yet to oppose the stimulus package Bush is touting at the moment? Thank goodness for the senators who are…oh wait. They just want their own suggested packages heard before they’ll consider Bush’s.

I’m beyond incredulous that it’s even being contemplated to “…allow federally chartered mortgage-finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy mortgages of up to $729,750.” (partial quote from Bloomberg.com).

Um…excuse me? Did they specifically go to NAR and ask how can we (artificially) increase a bubble that is already properly on the corrective decline?

JEEZ.

 
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