February 18, 2008

The Only Way To Recover From This Crazy Market

The Rocky Mountain News reports from Colorado. “After years of easy money, when people in the lending industry joked that all you needed was a pulse to get a loan with a low, initial teaser rate, lenders have returned to making sure borrowers are qualified to make payments. ‘Some of my loan officers I have been talking to said, it used to be if 10 people applied for a loan, only one or two would not qualify,’ said Peter Lansing, president of Universal Lending.”

“‘Now they are saying, if 10 people apply, as many as six or seven of them will not qualify,’ Lansing said. ‘That’s been a big shocker to people.’”

“Now, even if their credit scores are high enough, if the house is underwater - that is, the loan is worth more than the real estate - they’re likely to be rejected by the lender. But people who are refinancing today, seldom take money out, Lansing said.”

“Instead, they either are refinancing to save money each month or to seek the safety of a fixed-rate loan. ‘For some people, it’s just a matter of sleeping better at night,’ Lansing said.”

The Arizona Daily Sun. “Homeowners, contractors and Flagstaff city officials all have questions about Empire Communities, the largest homebuilder in northern Arizona. Empire, it seems, is all but gone from Flagstaff, leaving townhouses unfinished and a lone salesperson in one project referring calls to the Prescott office.”

“The townhomes built by Empire in the Pinnacle Pines development in Flagstaff, once touted as ‘fairy-tale cottages,’ are proving to be a harsh reality to many.”

“Currently, the project has been only partially built, with residents scattered between empty and unfinished townhomes. A salesperson is showing homes by phone appointment only. About 40 have been built on the 22-acre parcel. A second phase of the development would have built 104 more homes on an adjacent 18-acre parcel, city records show.”

“Currently, the townhomes are priced between $299,900 and $440,900 on Empire’s Web site.”

“‘They are not paying their (subcontractors) right now,’ said Scott Daniels of the Phoenix-based Fortress Framing Inc. ‘They kind of quit answering the phones.’”

“John Wesnitzer bought his townhome in Pinnacle Pines last December. He found little things that needed to be fixed after he moved in, and at the time, Empire seemed very willing to address the issues. Today, Wesnitzer said he is still waiting for Empire to approve the work.”

“Another homeowner in the Empire-built The Retreat at Ponderosa Trails said she has been waiting for the developer to address construction issues since November 2006. The homeowner, who asked not to be identified, said the home is under the warranty provided by Empire when she purchased it.”

“‘Now that we have no contact person, we are faced with repairing these issues ourselves,’ the homeowner said. ‘The repairs have been estimated to be close to $20,000. This creates a substantial financial issue for our family, but it needs to be done.’”

The Glendale Star from Arizona. “Arizona economic guru Elliott Pollack laid it all out for those who attended WESTMARC’s annual membership breakfast meeting at Glendale Civic Center. ‘Yes, the country is ‘probably’ going through a recession. Yes, the housing market is going to get worse. Retail sales are off, and employment actually turned negative last month. If there is a recession, it has not started yet, but it is likely.”

“Pollack predicts 2008 not only will be weak but there will be continued weakness in the housing market, and housing prices will decline. In mid-2008, he predicts a weakness in commercial construction. The year will also see a decline in employment and weakness in real incomes.”

“‘The credit crunch ends when banks see stability,’ Pollack said. ‘We just have to live through it.’”

“Although the Arizona economy is suffering just like the rest of the country, it should still outperform the nation as a whole, he said, adding, ‘but we need to keep an eye on housing.’ It will be another three to five years before we will see a full recovery in the housing market, Pollack said.”

“The apartment vacancy rate is going up. Where are renters? ‘More likely than not, they’re renting single-family homes,’ Pollack said.”

From KTAR.com in Arizona. “New housing numbers show some big price drops, especially in the west Valley, according to Arizona State University’s W.P. Carey School of Business.”

“The west Valley market is down about 15 percent over the past year, said Dr. Jay Butler, who tracks the housing market for ASU. He said much of that is because of speculators.”

“‘Many people got caught up in this hyper explosion of the residential market of ‘give me a home, give me a home anywhere, because it’s going to go up in value, etcetera,’ Butler said.”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “Sometime this weekend, several dozen of your neighbors will go back in time nearly 10 years. There, they’ll see a 3,128-square-foot Christopher Homes house in Summerlin’s upscale Country Rose Estates on sale for its circa 2000 price of $370,000.”

“So how, you want to know, will people revisit this past era? Through a time machine? Virtual reality? A tear in the fabric of a parallel universe? Nope, no fancy physics here: They’ll simply hop a ride on a foreclosure bus tour led by Barbara and Marshall Zucker of Prudential Americana Group, Realtors.”

“Other Realtors are planning or are already conducting bus rides. Through the tours, Realtors hope to chip away, 10 and 15 properties at a time, at the valley’s 7,000-home inventory of foreclosed houses.”

“For Jennifer Weinberg, foreclosure tours aren’t only about ginning up sales; they’re also about public service.”

“‘It’s a great way to stimulate business for us,’ she said. ‘But more importantly, I’ve been a resident here for 30 years, and my house has gone down in value based on (comparable sales prices), too. The only way to recover from this crazy market is to get houses off the books quickly, so we’re helping out the community, too.’”

“In addition to the Christopher home in Summerlin, which last sold in 2004 for $750,000, Zucker’s tour will take in a 1,470-square-foot home in Summerlin’s Hills listed for $212,000.”

“Among the deals offered on Weinberg’s tours is a four-bedroom, two-bath home in Summerlin that’s been reduced from $500,000 to $320,000.”

“For Las Vegans Tara and Marty Faber, Weinberg’s tour was less an opportunity to buy than a chance to get a reality check. ‘You hear all kinds of rumors, and we thought it might be a good idea, since it was free, to see if the rumors were true,’ Tara Faber said. ‘People say, ‘There are all these foreclosures, and they’re great deals, but they’re in really bad shape.’”

“Instead, Faber said, she found ’some great deals out there, and they’re in a lot better condition than we anticipated.’ The Fabers, who own a home in southwest Las Vegas, probably will go on future tours but won’t buy unless they find the ‘perfect’ floor plan at the best price, Faber said.”

“Streamline Tower is scheduled to bring 275 luxury condo units on line in the next few months, joining SoHo Lofts and Newport Lofts in the downtown Las Vegas high-rise market. The 21-story tower is substantially complete and ready for inspections and testing, managing partner Dusty Allen said.”

“He said the tower is about 65 percent sold. Some high-rise condo buyers have had trouble closing escrow as financing that was once available has either disappeared or qualifications and terms have changed as a result of the subprime mortgage crisis.”

“‘We think it’s still a very viable and exciting option for a primary or second home or an investment,’ Allen said.”

“‘Obviously, there’s struggles out there that are becoming more widely known,’ Allen said. ‘We’re still trudging along. Obviously, like other developers, we wish there’d be more sales.’”

“Units are priced from the mid-$400,000s for one bedroom to upward of $1 million for three bedrooms.”

In Business Las Vegas. “It’s been a tough year for John Ritter, and we’re only seven weeks into it. The chairman and CEO of Focus Property Group, the developer of master-planned communities such as Mountain’s Edge, Inspirada and Providence, has had to deal with a major setback for his company after years of success.”

“Focus’ financial woes are being played out for all of the Las Vegas Valley to see after the company announced it’s in discussions with its lenders to restructure debt. Focus missed an interest payment on more than $500 million in debt Feb. 1.”

“‘It is very difficult on me,’ Ritter said. ‘I have been in real estate for 26 years and never missed a payment. We did everything possible, but the fact of the matter is this is what it is, and we have to face it head on because we fully intend on surviving this market.”

“It’s not a place Ritter ever envisioned being in at the height of the Las Vegas housing boom when Focus turned heads in June 2004 by partnering with seven homebuilders to pay $557 million at a federal auction for 1,940 acres in Henderson.”

“Eight months later Focus Group and eight builders paid $510 million to buy 1,710 acres in Kyle Canyon.”

“‘I got to tell you at the time those were good deals if you were looking at what homes were selling for and the pace at which they were selling,’ Ritter said. ‘Given the same circumstances, I would do those deals again. Now, of course, if I had a crystal ball and had I known there would be such a long and deep slowdown, there are probably a lot of things I would have done differently.’”

“In recent years local money was used to acquire 4,800 acres in Las Vegas, Pahrump and Victorville, Calif., that Focus has been unable to sell at the prices it wants. Some market observers put the onus on Focus for going on a buying spree without fully anticipating the slowdown in the housing market. Ritter said he doesn’t blame them.”

“‘In retrospect, with 20-20 hindsight, we were overly aggressive,’ Ritter said. ‘Certainly, had we know there was going to be a potential five-year slowdown, we would have been less aggressive. I would have to say we weren’t the only (ones) surprised by this.’”

“‘We are working on selling land, and I think it will take the market a couple of years to recover,’ Ritter said. ‘We are starting to see some positive signs, and at least locally, we are seeing it start to test the bottom. I am not saying it is at the bottom. It is difficult to say.’”

“Ritter said 2008 will be tough for the housing market and that any recovery won’t bee seen until 2009. By 2010 the market will be doing well and by 2011, there will be a boom again.”

“Other builders and developers are facing similar problems. Lenders foreclosed on raw land in Lake Las Vegas and other builders have filed for bankruptcy protection or are dealing with financial woes.”

“‘It is tough for everybody out there,’ Ritter said. ‘I think whether it has hit the paper or not, almost every real estate transaction financial vehicle is in some stage of negotiations or restructuring.’”

“The availability of credit to buy homes and the ability to stay out of a deep recession, which could stretch out the recovery, will affect any recovery, he said.”

“Harrah’s Entertainment has laid off workers and reduced hours at many of its properties around the country, citing the slowing economy, the company confirmed Friday. The current round of layoffs includes nearly 100 workers at its eight local properties.”

“Harrah’s owns four properties in Northern Nevada, one in Laughlin, and 20 more in eight states outside Nevada. ‘If business continues to be less than optimal in some regions, we’re going to have to adjust our costs there,’ said Harrah’s Entertainment spokesman Gary Thompson.”

“Harrah’s confirmation follows similar reports by Station Casinos and MGM Mirage that the economic downturn is causing layoffs, work-hour reductions and hiring freezes of a few positions.”

“The economic slowdown in gaming comes as consumer confidence ebbs because of the local housing crisis, said Brian Gordon, a principal at a Las Vegas financial consulting firm. ‘The soft economic conditions are impacting all business sectors and all geographies,’ Gordon said. ‘The Las Vegas gaming sector is feeling the downswing in the overall economy and is responding accordingly.’”

“‘There is no question these are tough times,’ Boyd Gaming Corp. spokesman Rob Stillwell said. ‘We manage our business very closely. We are always working to keep expenses in line with business levels, and today is no different than previous times.’”

“A worker at one of the company’s properties said Friday that ‘vacation relief and on-call people are dying for something to do’ because of a slowdown in business.”

The Dayton Courier from Nevada. “Nevada’s unemployment rate jumped to 5.8 percent in December — the highest it’s been since April 2002 — and Lyon County’s unemployment rate was at 6.5 percent. Meanwhile, the national unemployment rate was at 5 percent in December, said Chief Economist Bill Anderson of the Department of Employment, Training & Rehabilitation.”

“‘Although population growth in the state has slowed, Nevada’s labor force has increased by about 25,000 since June,’ Anderson said. ‘The economy has been unable to absorb the new workers, however, and the ranks of the unemployed have swelled by about 14,000.’”

“The housing slowdown remains the primary cause of labor market problems, Anderson said. The construction industry shed nearly 8,000 jobs in 2007, despite work on numerous large projects on the Las Vegas Strip.”

“Other industries have contributed to Nevada’s weak job growth — now at a five-year low of 0.6 percent. The financial industry lost 1,500 jobs in 2007, and the employment services (temporary help) sector shed 8,200 jobs.”

“‘The housing slump very likely contributed to the weakness in those industries as well,’ Anderson said. ‘The year 2007 was a less than memorable one for Nevada’s economy. Labor market conditions continued the deterioration that began in 2006. When the final numbers are in, the state is likely to have seen its second weakest job growth–better only than 2002–in the past 15 years.’”

“‘While much of the prior year data will be revised–with initial publication of the revisions in early March–the slowing trend reported throughout 2007 is almost certain to be confirmed,’ he said. ‘(t)his trend is likely to continue into 2008.’”




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95 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-18 12:06:13

‘Nevada’s labor force has increased by about 25,000 since June,’ Anderson said. ‘The economy has been unable to absorb the new workers, however, and the ranks of the unemployed have swelled by about 14,000.’

Well, so much for the mythical invincibility of the Nevada economy the trolls went on and on about.

As for Flagstaff, there was another article next to this one about a developer dumping a couple hundred acres back on the market. And there’s this for above:

‘The townhomes built by Empire in the Pinnacle Pines development in Flagstaff, once touted as ‘fairy-tale cottages,’ are proving to be a harsh reality to many…About 40 have been built on the 22-acre parcel. A second phase of the development would have built 104 more homes on an adjacent 18-acre parcel, city records show. Currently, the townhomes are priced between $299,900 and $440,900 on Empire’s Web site.’

Many of these stalled/failed developments in Flag aren’t even half done. Given these sky-high prices, there is no way to know what the floor is.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-18 13:49:16

The Nevada work force is largely unionized, so J6P makes pretty good money when s/he works. But since the local economy is dominated by a very few industries, it can take a major hit if only one weakens. Of course the 900 lb gorilla is gaming, which is mostly owned by Bigcorps now. The Bigcorps are diversifying into other economies, including Asia, racing to capture the high rollers before the next one does. LV is also suffering from competition from the Indians, at least in Cali, where the Indians keep getting more and bigger gaming concessions from the state. They are going to have to diversify the local economy PDQ or they are TOAST now that construction has ground to a halt.

I know that a few companies have been trying to grow new businesses there (like web hosting, for example), but the weather and the horrible traffic makes it difficult to attract and retain talent that can basically work wherever they want.

Comment by colomountains
2008-02-18 14:05:10

Can someone provide an update on the new of passengers passing thru McMara (LAS)? I went thru this airport in December, and I was shocked, shocked I tell you to see no lines at the taxi/rental car pick-up at all.

This will be a good barameter for the economy as a whole.

Comment by RoundSparrow
2008-02-18 22:44:34

Vegas is always dead mid November and January. Except for NYE and CES, it is very slow . Great casino offers and cheap retail rooms.

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Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-02-18 14:10:16

developer dumping a couple hundred acres back on the market.

Most of the sheeple in the USA do not realize that the builder/developers are dumping the land they hold which in turn will devalue the properties that they are selling with their inventory homes. The people buying these properties will be shocked when they discover 2-3 years or more from now that that Great time to buy or that Great deal they got is now upside down.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-18 14:31:24

But Fuzzy, two or three years from now the buyers need to buy again! Without ongoing churn, how do you propose to keep all of those six-percenters out of the drive-thru window at McDoogle’s? Just because it’s always a great time to buy now doesn’t mean it won’t be a great time to buy in three years, and again in another three years, ad infinitum.

Maybe the land that developers are dumping could be re-zoned for more WallyMarts to employ the suffering used house salespeople and construction workers.

You just have to think positive! ¡Si, Se Puede! :-)

 
 
Comment by david cee
2008-02-18 16:54:50

“Well, so much for the mythical invincibility of the Nevada economy the trolls went on and on about”

Ben, Las Vegas is in Clark County. Please don’t mix Nevada economy with Clark County.
I track Las Vegas Real Estate directly from the MLS (I joined just to get the straight scoop). The UNLV stats show employment holding steady in Las Vegas, at +.08 from Dec 07 to Dec 06.

Clark County :Total Employment December-07 944,800 November-07, 944,500,December- 06 937,100 0.0% 1 year + 0.8%

There are 66 zip codes in Clark County. 75% of all Sales, repeat 75% of all SFR occur in 6 zip codes. The houses 20,30 and 40 miles from the strip are getting killed, driving down the median prices for all Las Vegas. Rents are rising on close in houses, not so much on the way out rentals.
Sure, Vegas suffering like the rest of America. But the Main Stream Media and their talking heads missed the bubble 2 years ago, and I don’t they have a clue what is happening in Vegas today.

Comment by Andrew
2008-02-18 20:12:12

“There are 66 zip codes in Clark County. 75% of all Sales, repeat 75% of all SFR occur in 6 zip codes.”

Ummm, no.

http://www.dqnews.com/ZIPNV.shtm

Just moved/sold out of Vegas and I watch those numbers pretty closely also. No way that 6 zip codes make up 75% of sales. Pull up those MLS #’s again for Jan and you’ll see that you’re mistaken or perhaps made a typo. And even if they did (6 zips making up 75% of sales), why would that invalidate the dropping median price?

In the past 2 years I’ve sold houses in 5 different zip codes, from N Las Vegas (Aliante), near the community college (rough!), Green Valley, and old Henderson. Same story across the board, slow sales and prices steadily dropping.

Comment by david cee
2008-02-18 21:03:03

“Reporting resale single family residences and condos as well as new homes
* % Change is from the same period last year”

I am reporting used single family direct from MLS…no condo’s, no new houses. And I am still standing by my figures. That’s why I joined and paid money to the MLS.
This DQ report is worthless.

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Comment by Andrew
2008-02-19 05:34:11

Ok, there were 983 SFR sales in Jan according to the MLS (of course, that # will have changed a bit if you pull the data today). You’re saying that 6 zip codes made up 737+ of those sales and there were approx. 250 sales in all the other zips combined?

If it’s only those far out zips that are selling, then absolutely nothing close in is selling, which doesn’t bode well for median prices in those areas either.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2008-02-18 12:10:50

“Nope, no fancy physics here: They’ll simply hop a ride on a foreclosure bus tour led by Barbara and Marshall Zucker of Prudential Americana Group, Realtors.”

Foreclosure bus tours coming to your neighborhood soon! Brought to you by your local Realtor. It’s ALWAYS a great time to buy ;)

Comment by mikey
2008-02-18 13:00:35

It’s going to be a LONG trip on those foreclosure buses. They better start packing lunches for the all the HUNGRY knife catchers :)

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-18 13:05:30

Speaking of realtors, I just had to give advice to a friend who’s testing the waters with low-ball offers. The problem he was having is his realtor wasn’t willing to place the offers for him, saying the were way too low. If anyone else out there is having the same problem, I’ll tell you what I told him - FIND ANOTHER REALTOR! You may have to go through two dozen of those worthless, POS, I’m-not-going-to-be-an-active-participant-in-this-housing-crash realtwhores until you finally get one who will do your bidding, but they’re out there. If your one of those, like my friend, that just has to jump in far too early, it’s going to take some work to find a used house salesman that is in the same mindset as you are. It’s that or do it yourself. Just do not mess with the butt-knuckles who tell you otherwise.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-02-18 13:19:52

1. Why use a realtor to buy?
2. If you present an offer to a seller’s agent, isn’t that agent legally obligated to present your offer to the seller? (maybe depends on state law)

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-18 14:12:39

Totally agree. My post was for those who just have to have a buyers agent. I’ve been throwing low-balls at seller’s agents for months now (mostly just to get a reaction. For you Schadenfreuders, try it, It’s a hell of a lot of fun.)

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Comment by flatffplan
2008-02-18 14:40:21

let the listing pop and go direct-why does anyone even the blind and deaf need a realwhore
- got net ?

 
Comment by thriftyrenter
2008-02-18 18:19:21

Interesting.

New poster- long-time reader.

Assuming someone wants to use a realtor for a housing purchase in the future (2009+ in my case…), are there established good strategies for getting them on the buyers’ side?

I’ve heard of buyers agents- don’t really know the details of how this works.

That aside, in order to motivate a traditional agent, my thought is to come up with a compensation scheme where the buyer rewards the buyer’s agent depending on the difference between closing and asking price. Hypothetically based on 3% commission for the buyer’s agent, the buyer needs to offer 3% of the difference between closing and asking to make the transaction ‘commission neutral’ for the buyer’s agent. In this case, the agent no longer has an immediate financial interest in the closing price.

However, perhaps adding an additional x% of the difference provides real motivation for the agent to help in negotiating prices down? Again, as a hypothetical, if the buyer offers 4% of the difference, the buyer’s agent gets an increasing commission as the closing price drops. (Of course, the buyer gets the other 96% of the difference…)

Assuming something like this works, how would one structure it? As a side contract?

Are there better/worse ways to do it? Is there an optimal value of ‘x’? How would one do it in a way that keeps agents from gaming the deal?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. I’m looking to purchase eventually (currently happily renting at

 
 
 
Comment by NOVAMtgBkr
2008-02-18 12:13:31

“‘It’s a great way to stimulate business for us,’ she said. ‘But more importantly, I’ve been a resident here for 30 years, and my house has gone down in value based on (comparable sales prices), too. The only way to recover from this crazy market is to get houses off the books quickly, so we’re helping out the community, too.’”

I get misty-eyed thinking about her civic-mindedness.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 12:44:58

You can borrow my box of tissues in a sec. But (sniff!) I need to shed some (sob!) more tears first.

 
 
Comment by Neil
2008-02-18 12:13:31

‘but we need to keep an eye on housing.’ It will be another three to five years before we will see a full recovery in the housing market, Pollack said.”

Now when people realize this nationally, we’ll be on the road to recovery. Note: Economic recovery, not home prices.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-18 12:20:51

Right, now we have the ‘guru’ bulls talking about 5 years. Ah, progress.

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-18 12:40:15

Last night at a get-together I had to enlighten a group on exactly what “recovery” meant for the housing market. First I pointed out that housing never has a “V” bottom. Regardless of what the shills tell them, when we hit bottom in prices we’re going to stay there a while. Second, I pointed out that we’re currently in a recovery in housing. The further prices drop and the closer we return to acceptable affordability factors, the closer the market comes to being “well”. The fact of the matter is that housing has been very sick up to this point, and is still running a high fever. We’re not out of the woods, but at least we’re walking in the right direction.

(enough metaphors for ya all?)

Comment by passthebubbly
2008-02-18 12:47:57

Good point. Stock market declines go hand in hand with people losing their jobs as companies failing. But houses don’t go away. They’ll still all be there, just a lot cheaper.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-18 12:51:08

I think you should have worked in a bunny in a hat image, or a penguin, or a box of gumdrops in there somehow or other, but overall I’d say you delivered very satisfactory metaphors. I assume you gestured dramatically as well, and perhaps even a small interpretive dance?

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2008-02-18 12:17:01

“‘In retrospect, with 20-20 hindsight, we were overly aggressive,’ Ritter said. ‘Certainly, had we know there was going to be a potential five-year slowdown, we would have been less aggressive. I would have to say we weren’t the only (ones) surprised by this.’”

No wonder the NAHB stopped sending money to Washington. Some of these builders are utterly clueless and beyond desperate. They didn’t see the credit crunch coming? Gimme a break.

Comment by passthebubbly
2008-02-18 12:41:36

If homebuilders are admitting it’ll take five years, we have won.

Also, maybe they didn’t give Washington any money because they don’t have any.

 
Comment by rick
2008-02-18 15:58:40

Well that’s why there are recessions.

People don’t have 20-20 hindsight are taken behind the barn and shot - short-sighted genes will go bankrupt. This is just a natural process.

 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2008-02-18 12:28:53

“Instead, Faber said, she found ’some great deals out there, and they’re in a lot better condition than we anticipated.’ The Fabers, who own a home in southwest Las Vegas, probably will go on future tours but won’t buy unless they find the ‘perfect’ floor plan at the best price, Faber said.”

But I bet that they will not “give away” their current house. Good luck, Fabers.

 
Comment by watcher
2008-02-18 12:29:12

“Ritter said 2008 will be tough for the housing market and that any recovery won’t bee seen until 2009. By 2010 the market will be doing well and by 2011, there will be a boom again.”

Ritter = Joe Isuzu? You’ve got his word on it.

Comment by implosion
2008-02-18 13:04:00

That statement, of course, made right on the heels of stating he never saw the downturn coming. Credibility factor = 0.

 
 
Comment by Desertdweller
2008-02-18 12:31:07

Word to wise future buyers, never ever close escrow without repairs finished or builder gives back cash in closing. Saved some friends yrs ago with that “sage ” advice, crack in new pool, warped walls, drywalled up the outlets… Saved them 25k and then they closed.
“Now that we have no contact person, we are faced with repairing these issues ourselves,’ the homeowner said. ‘The repairs have been estimated to be close to $20,000. This creates a substantial financial issue for our family, but it needs to be done.’”

Comment by palmetto
2008-02-18 13:29:33

Desert, this whole housing meltdown is just symbolic of the state of business in the US overall. COMPLETE lack of confidence, leading to a lack of trust, leading to a lack of sales, period. I forget why, but the other day I was contemplating making a switch in credit cards and was going to call customer service at a different card company to get some information. And I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, because I didn’t want to listen to the puking mewling phoney lying sack of crap false promises sales pitch. When it comes to anything financial, I don’t even want to ask because why bother? It’s probably going to be a lie anyway. Either that or ignorance from some off-shored phone room.

I’m also following the ebay boycott with a great deal of interest. They outright lied to their sellers and jacked them off with a slimy story about how they’ve “lowered” the fees, when the truth is, they re-structured and raised the fees. Anyone with half a brain could see this and there are charts posted in various places on the internet to show how the fees actually work. The truth is out there for anyone to see and yet THEY JUST. KEEP. LYING.

This is what American business has become, lies and harm, all wreathed in spin and phoney puking smiley smiles. I can’t even bring myself to ask questions about any new products, whether that be a house, a financial instrument, a power tool, etc. And I think a number of people feel like me, people who might buy something, but don’t even want to go through the effort of having to weed through the lies and spin. It is lack of confidence that will ultimately bring down the US, unless there’s some sort of major, corporate change of heart in caring for customers and the communities in which they do business and I’m not holding my breath because I don’t like turning blue. The shame of it is, there are probably some good companies out there but who can tell the good guys from the bad guys anymore until after the fact?

Rant off.

Comment by msprompt
2008-02-18 13:57:45

Amen, Palmetto. Amen. Wealth is not compatible with democracy. Forget houses. Maybe I should buy a boat.

Comment by jim
2008-02-18 21:53:26

Boat. That is my plan.

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Comment by aqius
2008-02-18 14:36:15

hey palmy

well said/spot on commentary. I also dread calling or speaking with any business/salesperson because of all you’ve mentioned. it’s now just a horrible, tedious struggle to get an understandable deal . . . so much so that you can pretty much expect to NOT get one in which is done fairly for both parties. it’s usually done to the advantage of the seller(bigcorp co.)
anyone else notice the constant sales barrage at the (chokepoint) of every sales register?!

” need a warranty? whats yer phone number? address? zip code? want our company credit card? $10 off if you apply now . .. . ”

I just want SCREAM “LEAVE ME THE PHUCK ALONE & RING UP MY PURCHASE ALREADY” >.. GOD ALMIGHTY !!! (but the poor cashier is just a sales bot while the decision makers hide behind voice mails. so all you can do is try to understand their predicament & keep a civil tongue while shuffling to the left.)

I tell ya, this info gathering corp culture has gotten so outta control to the point of that which used to take 10 seconds now takes a minimum of 10 minutes. and I use CASH !!
the corps demand their cashiers harrass (sell) the hell out customers. thats why Best Buy has only ONE FREAKIN REGISTER open at any given time. chokepoint bottleneck. and also to force the shopper to wander around some more in the store while waiting for the line to go down. I now refuse to shop at these places unless its early A.M.
capitalism drawing down to its inevitable horrific conclusion. bet karl marx is laughing in his grave. communism is too idealistic & capitalism is too greedy for either to work for the common person. capitalism is the lessor evil of the two, so we endure. ” the dude abides” .

rant also off - for now . .

excellent commentary - palmetto !!

Comment by palmetto
2008-02-18 15:22:38

Thanks, bro’ aqius. JUST NOW got off the phone with some customer service rep, Verizon has been touting some high speed internet/phone service package. Sounds like a good deal on the surface and I’d get more for my money that what I have right now, seemingly. BUT I HAD TO ASK about extra charges AND THEN the truth comes out. Not to mention if the sun doesn’t shine out of the left side of yer ass during the third month, your rate goes up and if you cancel during the full moon without saying the Lord’s prayer over the equipment while holding it between your legs, they charge you for that, too. I’m really pissed. Really, really pissed off.

American business has adopted the “non-contract” model, where anything can change at the drop of a hat. Why buy anything or make any commitments?

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Comment by are they crazy
2008-02-18 16:00:28

Yet they will charge you $175 if you decide to terminate the contract, but they have no qualms about changing the terms.

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-02-18 16:23:18

Yes, crazy, it’s called the “GOTCHA!” business model. The housing bubble is one big “GOTCHA”. Credit cards, communication services, internet services, it’s all GOTCHA! It’s like business just wants to put the squeeze on ya.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-02-18 15:43:40

I had this problem at Best Buy too! I bought something and they tried to sell me the warranty. I said no thanks. Then he began to ring it up and asked for my address. Why do you need that? Oh, for the warranty. I’m not getting the warranty. Oh, i thought you were getting the warranty. yeah right What they do is make it such a hassle that you pay the fee just to get them off your back. The stupid this is that I was paying by debit. They already record my freakin’ info from the debit card.

I did go all cash for a couple years, but inflation is so bad it’s tough to have enough cash on hand.

I took a tip from a friend: If they ask for your phone number, it’s 202-456-1111. That’s the White House comment line. Let Best Buy bother the Shrub.

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Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-02-18 17:00:01

I give Home Depot, AutoParts, etc., the wrong phone number, but only off by one from my actual phone number. (As if I really give a $hit whether my battery or fan belt or tires have a warranty in the first place.) That way nobody can ever call me, but if there is ever any question about a phone number not matching up I can just say, oh, the number you have is xxxx, my other phone.

Notice there is no blanket condemnation about lying in the 10 Commandments. The commandment is not to bear false witness against thy neighbor. Lying to the IRS, insurance companies, telemarketers, and overzealous sales clerks is not prohibited.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2008-02-18 23:51:44

Oxide, please do not give out that phone number to the White House.

You’re doing so adds to the taxes paid by U.S. taxpayers. While in this case it’s a miniscule amount, the net effect is that you’re encouraging the feds to steal even more of my money.

I’d rather you wouldn’t do that.

Thanks.

Thanks.

 
 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-18 14:38:01

Have you read _Traders, Guns, and Money_ yet?

Better take your blood pressure meds first…

I think that this “buyer’s strike” we’re seeing in housing will spread to other purchases, so I get your rant. Investing got more difficult for me as I read the above book.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 14:56:57

Preach it, Palmetto.

This past Saturday, I was in the credit union to deposit a check and pay down my credit card balance. I’ll pay the remainder off in full by the due date, but that’s another story from the Slim Frugality Library.

Any-hoo, I’d worked out what I was going to pay, right down to the penny. So, I asked for that amount to be paid out of one of my accounts, and the teller did that transaction. Then I said that the balance remaining would be $XX.XX, right?

The teller named an amount that was slightly higher. I asked why there was a discrepancy. She attributed to interest, but I told her that there was no such thing. I don’t carry a balance on this card, and, as mentioned above, it’s going to be paid down to zero in the next few days.

She re-checked her math, then apologized profusely. Turns out that my calculation was right after all.

Comment by caveat_emptor
2008-02-18 15:20:17

Just to see what happened, I carried a random, small, negative balance on my credit card for a while (they owed me somewhere between $0.01 and $0.99). The card was active- I just paid a little more than necessary each month. One month, my balance just disappeared. A phone call restored it… they never could come up with a good reason for why they took the money.

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Comment by gascap
2008-02-18 16:51:08

About 3 years ago I closed a cell phone account with Cingular/ATT and wound up with about a $3 credit. I figured they would send me a check in a month or two. Well guess what, I’m still waiting. What a bunch of crooks, I’m sure if I had ended up owing them 3 bucks they would have put it into collection by now, if they owe you they just keep the cash. Sleazebags.

 
 
 
Comment by Bloz
2008-02-18 22:20:05

Wow, you’ve neatly encapsulated my feelings. Bravo.

 
Comment by Michael
2008-02-18 23:28:34

I have so much confidence right now that I am overwhelmed with it. I Know that we are the greatest nation on planet Earth and I want to buy everything I see. I went to the store today to buy a big screen TV but the sales clerk wouldn’t give it to me. She said my credit card was denied, so I gave her my debit card and that was denied because there was no money in my bank account. I said, but I have so much confidence, surely that is enough for the TV isn’t it? They told me all I needed was confidence and I could have anything I wanted. Why did they lie to me?

 
 
Comment by Quixotic
2008-02-18 15:12:51

From the comment section of the Kansas City Star article “KC area’s housing market was ‘ugly’ in 2007″

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/493088.html

(sorry for the grammar mistakes - sic)

“All houses use the same architecture, only one blueprint needed. Homes use the same material which is bought in bulk. Construction is easy, developers do not hire skilled craftsmen, they use unskilled labor.

It’s a racket people, homeowners find their dream home a mess with cracked walls, seams a mess, the house is settling.

Homeowners have been taken for a ride due to inflating sales and profits, they are left holding the bag crisis. Homes are not worth the price listed, it’s all a fraud.

Raised in a family of good old carpenters I know how a house should be built. The homes built then are still standing, that’s more than I can say for the shoddy homes built now days.”

Comment by Xiaoding
2008-02-19 07:10:49

When I bought my place, the #1 advice people gave me, was buy an old house. New house, who the hell knows what’s wrong with it? Old house, you know what’s wrong with it!

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-18 12:33:16

“The townhomes built by Empire in the Pinnacle Pines development in Flagstaff, once touted as ‘fairy-tale cottages,’ are proving to be a harsh reality to many.”

I have a fairy-tale cottage. (Well, more like a fairy-tale shack.) It’s in the deep dark forest, all by itself in tall silent trees dripping with green moss, and there are small peeping frogs in the yard, and big red toadstools, and it’s small, and cozy and bright inside. As the final clincher, there’s a pretty evil witch who likes to cook living in it.
THAT’S a fairy tale cottage.

They don’t come in stamped-out, jammed in, craptastic subdivisions in Arizona.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 12:46:49

LOL!

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-18 12:56:35

A lot of things about Flagstaff are fairy-tale. But don’t get the locals started on the terrible pay.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-18 13:26:18

‘But don’t get the locals started on the terrible pay.’

Oh? Like in gingerbread? Spare huntsmens’ heads? Bags of pixie-dust? Big red toadstools? Actually, those big red toadstools with white warty spots are ‘Amanita muscaria’. You know the ones, the stereotypical fairy tale prop. Last fall was an absolutely gangbuster mushroom season here, I probably ate 30 pounds of wild mushrooms in October alone, and dried a bunch more. Not the big red toadstool kind, those are not for stir-fry and so forth. Although they can be quite popular for other, more specialized consumption, nudge nudge, wink wink.
I was walking out in a remote field in Grays Harbor, all drifting with mist, and came to a huge fairy ring of them, probably 100 yards in diameter. It was astounding. I expected to see a unicorn come running up.
Instead, I soon found a bunch of big rusting cannisters of something oily and feculent right upslope of a small stream and called Fish and Wildlife and b*tched up a storm about it. Almost as good as a unicorn.

Comment by bubbleglum
2008-02-18 13:59:21

Do they still have the Purina dog food factory in Flag? $7 an hour and all you can eat?

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Comment by aqius
2008-02-18 14:18:37

Olygirl . . . .

makes me nervous with all her mushroom knowledge/wonder if she runs a girls boarding school … has a wounded soldier laid up inside gettin all kinds of attn …. good vittles … n such … in fact you could say I’m beguiled by the whole situation.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 14:58:45

Olympiagal, you are really on top of your wordcrafting game today.

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Comment by Il Grande Silenzio
2008-02-18 15:36:20

Are there any decent jobs in Flagstaff besides NAU and Gore?

It was already getting ridiculously overpriced when I lived there in the mid-90s. And it was already filling up with California equity locusts.

The Daily Sun ran a poll back then to finally settle what Flagstaff residents should be called. Flagstaffers? Flagstonians? The overwhelming winner was “Californians”.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-02-18 12:57:20

Real fairy-tale cottages (aka Storybook Style): http://storybookers.com Just keep on scrolling down.

And a small company that designs Storybook Style floorplans: storybookhomes.com

It is semantically impossible to have a “Fairy-Tale” townhome, but here they are for comparison: http://www.pinnacle-pines.com/the_homes.html

Comment by AnnScott
2008-02-18 13:34:24

Oh I LOVE THAT LINK! Storybookers is wonderful.

The houses in 3rd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 15th, 16th, 24th, 26th, 28th, 30th, and 31st –34th photos look like the areas of Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights and University Heights, OH that were built between 1910 and the mid-late 1930s. Block after block are Tudor Revival, English Cottage, Norman and Belgian with a few Colonial Revival tossed in the mix. There are everything from reltively moderate size (1400 sq ft) to grand mansions of 8000 sq ft with sweeping grounds. All in about 3 sq miles. It is just lovely.

(And for all those who thought Cleveland Oh was a wasteland, you ned to go see those places with the huge towering trees and fabulous architecture.)

 
Comment by jane
2008-02-18 21:52:31

Omigosh, these are fabulous. I will have to rethink my spartan lifestyle. I would love to live in one of these. Thank you so much for the links - you have enhanced my life.

 
 
Comment by Emmi
2008-02-18 21:56:11

“pretty evil witch” meaning, fairly evil, or substantially evil…
or “pretty, evil witch” meaning, you hide it until needed…? ;-)

 
 
Comment by passthebubbly
2008-02-18 12:37:22

“Harrah’s Entertainment has laid off workers and reduced hours at many of its properties around the country, citing the slowing economy, the company confirmed Friday. The current round of layoffs includes nearly 100 workers at its eight local properties.”

I have posted several times over the past year that business at the Nevada casinos was looking like it was slowing down. Now here’s proof. This is going to be a huge vicious circle in Vegas and Reno (Tahoe will end up OK, I think, because it has things to do besides gambling). Fewer mortgage brokers and equity locusts flushed with cash to blow it at the tables, fewer people in Vegas sucking off the gambling teat, and on it goes.

Oh well, looks like Vegas hotels are going to become cheap again on weekends.

Comment by sagesse
2008-02-18 16:59:01

Tidbit: One will be opening a Mega Casino soon in Singapore (Las Vegas Sands corporation). The other LV companies lost on the second Singapore bid, which went to a Malaysian outfit.

 
Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-02-18 17:10:22

I’ve been ranting on this, too. Everybody is legalizing gambling, and Singapore and Macau are a lot closer to Tokyo and Shanghai than Las Vegas. Where’s the next Wayne Newton, or Teller, or big heavyweight prizefight? There’s getting to be no there, there. Making LV “kid friendly” has also made it fatty-friendly, like being at some entertaino-mall at Myrtle Beach, and I doubt the Asians are really diggin’ the fries-in-the-face little sluggos waddling around with their gut-empowered parents. Other than the Texas hold ‘em, It just ain’t that cool.

 
 
Comment by Desertdweller
2008-02-18 12:37:49

“The housing slowdown remains the primary cause of labor market problems, Anderson said. The construction industry shed nearly 8,000 jobs in 2007, despite work on numerous large projects on the Las Vegas Strip.”

Primary CAUSE? dont’ think so. It is just a symptom. Go to the root of the problem. Not a symptom.

 
Comment by dennis
2008-02-18 12:58:39

“Ritter said 2008 will be tough for the housing market and that any recovery won’t bee seen until 2009. By 2010 the market will be doing well and by 2011, there will be a boom again.”

He got agressive again with his observations! Where do these IDIOTS come from. 2011 a BOOM! Where are the Joshua Trees! We need one for this guy.

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-18 13:13:06

“Where are the Joshua Trees!”

I’m working on a JT plantation. Very soon all the indignant will have access to the ultimate tool of retribution. Until then, get creative and find a worthy alternative.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 14:59:50

Is it near Txchick’s 20-pound trout hatchery?

 
Comment by lavi d
2008-02-18 15:14:53

I’m working on a JT plantation.

Is this it?

:)

 
 
Comment by Tom
2008-02-18 14:40:20

I think his numbers are off.

Recovery won’t begin till maybe 2012 at the earliest. By 2020 the market will be doing well. Maybe by 2070 there will be another boom.

(basing my numbers off the great depression).

 
 
Comment by Dinasmom
2008-02-18 13:07:29

“The apartment vacancy rate is going up. Where are renters? ‘More likely than not, they’re renting single-family homes,’ Pollack said.”

Duh.
On another note, I would imagine that a lot of these houses are renting out for less than their mortgage payment and the accidental landlords/ladies are carrying the balance in order to have help with the “nut”. Painful!
I remember looking at houses close to my workplace last year and having the realtors ask if I needed to sell my house prior to buying another. Fair question- they wanted to know if they should bother with us. We actually don’t, if we cash out a big chunk of investments- but who wants to do that?!? I simply responded by saying, “NO, but why would someone want to carry two mortgages if they don’t have to?” With property values decreasing and houses sitting on the market for months against foreclosures, we’d have been in a fix if we would have done this. I think a lot of folks do/did have this type of situation going on.

 
Comment by PontiacMI
2008-02-18 13:28:41

“The townhomes built by Empire in the Pinnacle Pines development in Flagstaff, once touted as ‘fairy-tale cottages,’ are proving to be a harsh reality to many.”

It looks like this will stay a fairy tale… Once upon a time, there was a plan to build a community

 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2008-02-18 13:32:31

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080218/ap_on_bi_ge/subprime_wall_street

So, who will actually face some Bubba time?

 
Comment by MEaston
Comment by Tom
2008-02-18 15:03:09

Buy Goldman Sachs lol as Jim Cramer would say.

 
 
Comment by MEaston
2008-02-18 13:40:05

I liked these paragraphs

This could get a lot nastier, for many reasons,” said John Akula, a business law lecturer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Sloan School of Management. “Prolonged close scrutiny often turns up all kinds of dubious practices that in normal times are under the radar.

The 278 subprime cases filed in federal courts in 2007 already equals half of the total 559 S&L cases handled over multiple years, according to the findings from Navigant Consulting Inc.

Criminal action also could be looming. The FBI said last month it was investigating 14 companies for possible accounting fraud, insider trading or other violations that could result in criminal charges. The FBI didn’t identify companies but said the probe involves firms across the financial services industry.

Comment by palmetto
2008-02-18 13:44:41

“Aside from the civil cases, the FBI is looking at possible criminal action, focusing on what Wall Street firms knew about the risks of mortgage securities backed by subprime loans, and whether they hid risks from investors.”

WHETHER they hid risks? WHETHER? We KNOW they did.

I hope the boy genius pigmen pukers are messing themselves. They deserve to share cells with MS-13 and other gang members.

Pucker up real nice, boyz.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 15:02:18

Aw, Palmetto, MS-13 is too good for them.

Comment by palmetto
2008-02-18 15:13:58

Yep, yer spot on, Slim. It would be degrading to MS-13 to have to share cells with daboyz. I shouldn’t have wished such a fate on them. I’ll call LaRaza and ask to give them my abject apologies.

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Comment by need 2 leave ca
2008-02-18 13:44:39

I will be visiting most of the casinos around Albuquerque over the next 4 days (for work, not to gamble per se). So far, they seem pretty immune to lack of customers. They are as busy as ever. They are all expanding in some form. I will report at the end of four days.

Here in ABQ, we also have a lot of Yucca Trees, in addition to the Joshua Trees. They would serve the same purpose - big and prickly and perfect size for insertion to any favorite used house lying salesperson’s anatomy from where the crap flies. Maybe the casinos here are doing well for people hoping to hit it big in order to save their Mc$h!tbox? I know the person we bought the house from had tried to ‘earn’ some money when he got in over his head. Fortunately for him, he wised up and stopped quickly. How many others are trying that? Like the old movie “Indecent Proposal” with Woody and Demi and Robert Redford?

Comment by caveat_emptor
2008-02-18 15:24:16

big and prickly and perfect size for insertion to any favorite used house lying salesperson’s anatomy from where the crap flies.

Why would we make them eat a yucca tree?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 15:40:49

I know what you mean. I have a yucca in my back yard. I move very carefully when I’m near it. Especially when I have my back turned.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2008-02-18 13:46:58

MEaston - we must have submitted same link at the same time. We have the same sentiment. I hope the Tan Man goes down. As well as the Ameriquest slimeball. Plenty more to go around. Break out the Joshua Trees. We’ll need NNVbrokers farm of them.

 
Comment by bubbleglum
2008-02-18 14:24:01

OT–You can’t make this stuff up. Broke folk take heart.

Bangladesh bank offers loans to US poor.

http://tinyurl.com/ypdlp6

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 15:04:34

Personally, I think this is a good idea. Better the poor go to Grameen than to one of those blankety-blank payday loan stores.

 
 
Comment by martin cohen
2008-02-18 14:31:24
 
Comment by flatffplan
2008-02-18 14:35:01

EU like bailout- markets up
where’s the outrage ?

 
Comment by Ria Rhodes
2008-02-18 14:44:47

Come on down to Clarkdale, AZ and checkout Empire’s lovely unfinished development. Talk to locals about the unfinished units sprinkled with empty beer cans and little plastic baggies.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-18 14:48:05

I did go there and took some pics for the gallery in 2006. I could tell it was going to be a disaster even then. It’s almost like they did zero research, to put that kind of project in Clarkdale.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-18 15:05:46

I remember looking at those photos and thinking that this whole AZ bubble-thing would end badly.

 
 
 
Comment by Tom
2008-02-18 14:47:03

“He said the tower is about 65 percent sold. Some high-rise condo buyers have had trouble closing escrow as financing that was once available has either disappeared or qualifications and terms have changed as a result of the subprime mortgage crisis.”

“‘We think it’s still a very viable and exciting option for a primary or second home or an investment,’ Allen said.”

Still using the word investment I see? Did Allen leave anything out with that statement? Primary, Secondary, or investment?

 
Comment by flatffplan
2008-02-18 15:31:53

bussin
wouldn’t you go alone to try and get a steal of a deal?
how can you share a bargain

 
Comment by sfbayqt
2008-02-18 15:48:16

Dublin, CA (94568) here….

OT…but I noticed that most folks were here and the Bits Bucket is getting kinda long.

Yesterday afternoon I attended a Hudson & Marshall foreclosure auction for 83 San Francisco Bay Area properties. The auction was held at the Oakland Airport Hilton. A friend (fellow bear) mentioned this auction to me a few days ago, and it was also covered on the evening news prior to the event. Neither of us had been to a foreclosure auction before so we both thought it would be interesting to see how they worked.

Having missed the open house dates, we decided to pick a few interesting properties, do our online homework and then drive by for the “up close and personal”. At one of the last houses that we stopped by, one of the neighbors came out and struck up a VERY informative and long conversation with us. She had lived in the neighborhood for 15 years and clearly was the neighborhood historian. :-) I won’t bore you with the details but we thanked her for the info and proceeded to the auction.

Observations:

Attendance: approximately 400

H&M staff: approx. 15, including the 2 auctioneers (MAN, they talk fast! Whew!!)

Demographics: mostly Asian, Middle Eastern, Caucasian and a small number of African Americans

# of properties: 38

Locations of properties: From Fairfield to San Francisco, including Brentwood, Oakley, Antioch and Martinez.

Type of properties: SFR, condos, TH

Sq ft range: 608 sf to over 2500 sf

Lowest winning bid: $87,500 for a 2/1 in San Pablo, CA (1528 Bush Avenue)

Highest winning bid: $370,000 for 4/2 in Hayward, CA (25610 Lindenwood Way)

While waiting for the auction to begin, I struck up a conversation with an attendee next to me. He and his 2 friends (middle-aged, White gentlemen) were also there as observers. The three of them were pharmacists and gainfully employed. They were not interested in purchasing anything. Another attendee (Middle Eastern gentleman) sat in the seat between me and the pharmacist. He was just there to be educated, as well, but may purchase in a future auction. What was funny is that he told me that his wife told him not to get carried away. LOL!! As the auctioneers began and rolled through to the second property (a condo in Hercules, Ca), I told the guy next to me that the final bid was actually a roll back to about 1999 or 2000. The reason why I knew that is because my sister lived in the same development in 1995-96 and I knew what she paid for a similar unit. And on it went with other areas. I must say, though, that it started to become obvious that there were sharks bidding some of the properties too high…but, more power to them. I wasn’t trying to buy anything. ;-) On a couple of properties, the auctioneers went back to do the auction over because of either a misunderstanding by the winning bidder or some other issue.

It was such a learning experience….for me AND people I spoke with around me. As crazy as the final bid amounts were (both the low, low prices and the ones I thought were still too high), they were definitely setting the new comps for the areas, and the auctioned off properties represented about 15 or more cities.

If anyone is interested, Hudson & Marshall will be back in the Bay Area in June. Their schedule through mid-March is in a link below.

http://www.kcbs.com/pages/1674867.php?contentType=4&contentId=1583577
http://www.hudsonandmarshall.com/
http://www.hudsonandmarshall.com/calendar.asp

BayQT~

 
Comment by recrash06
2008-02-18 20:51:09

Big trouble in rental land. In the NE where I’m an agent rents have been flat for 5 yrs.. The last 2 years as sales slowed we hoped that rents would go up at least 5% annually. It hasn’t happened and my last two rentals have been duds. It appears now that the weakness in the overall economy is asserting itself in a negative way on rents. In light of the fact that expenses such as RE taxes, ins., w & s and maintenance are up an average of 30% over the past five years it appears that many who bought in the past six years are losing more and more money each month. I am shorting the REIT’s in the form of SRS.

Comment by jane
2008-02-18 22:25:26

Anywhere near CT? I have wondered for years what is propping up those prices. The college graduates leave. Young professionals won’t move there. The financial services industry is crashing. The 50,000 white collar middle managers laid off in the 90’s have neither found similar wages nor made millions as entrepreneurs. Government services employ more than the private sector, since private sector entities have either moved out or gone out of business. Consequently, property taxes have skyrocketed. Gasoline and other hidden fees are virtually the highest in the nation. Who the heck can afford to stay there? What alchemy is keeping a late 80’s crash from reappearing? Thanks for any insight.

 
 
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