February 22, 2008

A Market Driven By Price

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “While Harvard has not escaped price adjustments on its real estate values, the foreclosure rate continues to remain relatively low in comparison to its neighboring communities in northern Worcester County, according to local real estate brokers. ‘The houses that have gone under agreement have had fairly dramatic price adjustments, some were more dramatic than others,’ said Rhonda Sprague, owner of Harvard Realty. ‘Most were sold for less than the asking price. But it is a market driven by price.’”

“Home values in Harvard and its surrounding communities were previously rising at a rapid rate, leaving sellers to believe their homes would continue to appreciate at 10 percent, resulting in a shocking adjustment in 2004 when appreciation dramatically stopped, said Eileen Fitzpatrick, a Harvard Realtor in Bolton.”

“‘There have been price reductions in Harvard by as much as a couple hundred thousand dollars,’ said Fitzpatrick. ‘Currently there is a home on the market originally listed at $1.6 million and is now listed at $1.2 million. All these houses are almost $300,000 less than they used to be.’”

“Real estate experts say housing prices peaked in 2006 post-Katrina, and New Orleans-area homebuyers will see more bargains on the market this year.”

“‘There was an artificial spike in sales after Katrina,’ said developers Matt Schwartz. ‘Now the sector that remains strong and will remain strong is the work force sector, the sector we are serving of people who are taking the jobs that will be created as the city recovers.’”

“The Houston area’s housing market continued to weaken in January as sales fell to their lowest level in three years and home prices dipped. Single-family home sales in the Houston area fell 12 percent last month compared with a year earlier, the Houston Association of Realtors reported.”

“While the decline wasn’t as severe as December’s 16.5 percent drop, home prices slid to their lowest level since January 2006.”

“Alfredo Bonfante’s real estate agent has suggested he drop the $210,000 asking price on his four-bedroom, 2,100-square-foot home in The Woodlands. In four months, Bonfante hasn’t gotten any offers. He thinks it’s because new homes nearby are selling for as little as $5,000 more than what he’s asking.”

“‘They’re giving all stainless-steel appliances, and instead of carpet they’re giving tile,’ said Bonfante, whose house is only about two years old.”

“Maxine Bates, president of the Norman Board of Realtors, told city leaders that the national hysteria over slowing home sales and a mortgage meltdown is comparable to Orson Welles’ infamous broadcast of War of the Worlds in 1938. The fictional broadcast panicked thousands of radio listeners into believing that Martians had landed on Earth.”

“‘This is not the case in Oklahoma, in metro Oklahoma City and more specifically here in Norman,’ Bates said. ‘Real, reasonable, manageable, sustainable growth — that’s Norman.’”

“In Norman, fourth quarter average sales prices were $157,517, with the Oklahoma City metro coming in at $153,196, according to statistics compiled by the Oklahoma Association of Realtors. Average sales prices for Oklahoma in the fourth quarter of 2007 were $121,492, up from 2006 at $115,332; 2005, $109,568; 2004, $100,409; and 2003, $94,570.”

“But Bates said the mortgage industry has taken a big hit. ‘Who could ever have thought it was a good idea to give a $500,000 loan to a farm worker making $14,000 a year or a 25-year loan to a 102-year-old man,’ she asked. ‘Well, someone did. In many markets there was a real estate bubble and it has burst with incredible force.’”

“Not long ago, it wasn’t uncommon for homes to sell for more than the asking price. Two or more buyers would make full-price offers, and one of them would bid up the price in order to secure the sale. Those days might be gone, at least for now, said Sheila Tom, president of the Black Hills Board of Realtors.”

“So is it a buyers market? ‘I’d have to say yes … in a way,’ Tom said. ‘There has been negotiation going on that is favorable to buyers, but sellers are not taking just anything.’”

“‘It has gotten slower in the past few months. I think a lot of that is attributed to a big oversupply of new construction for a while, but it’s being reabsorbed,’ said Gil Raben of Raben Real Estate.”

“‘We had a period when we’d have two or three offers,’ Raben said. ‘Now, we’re pretty close to the asking price — but you’ve got to be realistic.’”

“Local buyers seem a bit reluctant to take the plunge, according to Tom. They’re waiting for interest rates to fall. They’re waiting for prices to come down. They are waiting to see what happens to the economy.”

“‘Don’t wait too long,’ she said. ‘You might miss it.’”

“From HCMC’s suburbs to the heart of the Mekong Delta, land is in high demand everywhere, giving rise to exorbitant prices that keep spiraling further up.”

“A stately house stands near the people’s committee office in Long An Province’s Long Hau Commune. The house owner, known as Sau, is a well-known land dealer in the area. As your correspondents drop in on her door, saying they are on the lookout for some land, Sau exclaims, ‘You’re too late! There is nothing left now!’”

“She had just helped sell a 30m by 80m plot fronting a road for VND1.5 billion ($94,000). ‘A boat owner in Ho Chi Minh City’s District 7 bought it, did some work on it, and is now offering it at five times the price.’”

“Long Hau Commune’s agriculture chief, Nguyen Thanh Loi, said 1,000 square meters of farmland had cost around VND850,000 not long ago because it was unsuitable for growing rice. By early last year, the price of the same land had risen to VND25 million. ‘Prices have steadily gone up ever since,’ he said.”

“But actually finding someone ready to part with their property needs luck since most have stopped selling in anticipation of foreign investors coming to offer higher prices.”

“It’s partially covered in plastic sheeting and even the estate agent trying to sell it admits it’s ‘dilapidated.’ But this rundown shed in a top Welsh property hotspot has gone on the market for £150,000. The building’s dimensions are just 18ft by 15ft, though it does have water and electricity supplies.”

“Though based in the plush beach resort of Abersoch, in Gwynedd, the shed does not boast the kind of dramatic sea views that have seen similar properties marketed for up to £500,000. But estate agents Beresford Adams say that despite the absence of a stunning panorama, the shed has already attracted three bids in excess of the £150,000 asking price.”

“A spokesperson even hinted a bidding war could drive up the price to around £175,000 before a deal is reached.”

“‘The thing that caught my eye is that there is no view of the sea or beach and we have only seen those kind of higher prices for beach huts in the South of England,’ said Adams.”

“Some experts have said that house price falls in Northern Ireland were inevitable given how high prices had gone. Alan Bridle, of the Bank of Ireland, said: ‘In the last five years, maybe slightly longer, Northern Ireland and Belfast have gone from housing as one of the most affordable, to one of the least affordable.’”

“‘But it hasn’t been a normal market. It is not moving up by the people looking to buy housing just to have a roof over their heads, there was a strong element of residential investment,’ Bridle said.”

“Things in Rhode Island that drive folks crazy: Housing prices. Even a fixer-upper here will cost you hundreds of thousands.”

“I remember going to a top-end suburb of Cleveland — Shaker Heights — and was shocked to find houses are half what they’d cost here. A homeowner there from New England told me people in her neighborhood get to travel and dine out more than here because, as she put it, ‘we don’t kill ourselves to get into a house.’ People in Rhode Island do.”

“The street has never much cared for Wachovia’s 2006 purchase of Golden West Financial for $24 billion. Still, Herb and Marion Sandler, the husband and wife team behind Golden West, were legendary for their rigorous underwriting standards.”

“Herb remains a vociferous defender of his loans and says that if anything, his borrowers are suffering from the lax standards of other lenders in the form of rising foreclosures in their neighborhoods. ‘The answer to what went wrong was wild, irrational, volume-driven loans by people who didn’t give a damn about economics,’ he said.”

“The media and government’s knee-jerk reaction to the subprime mortgage mess is that the poor consumer is being taken advantage of, and the culprit must be found and things made right.”

“In reality, it is the consumer who is most at fault, with government oversight being complicit, and attempts to bail them out of their predicament will, in fact, only make things worse.”

“If we think that the government can possibly be a substitute for a skeptical, discriminating consumer, then we are grossly overestimating the power and benevolence of government.”

“Let’s take TV advertising as an example: The government has laws about truth in advertising. These laws are supposed to ensure that manufacturers do not make false claims about their products. In spite of this government oversight, does anyone think that the ads on TV are completely honest and truthful?”

“It is only under the cloak of government monitoring that their advertising has the illusion of credibility. Remove the cloak, and the emperor has no clothes. Consumers become skeptics, and the power now shifts from the seller to the wary consumer, and the burden of proof is now on the seller to warrant his product.”

“Thus it is with the subprime debacle. The problem was not the lack of government oversight, but with the illusion of government oversight. Remove the illusion, and you solve the problem.”




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103 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-22 15:24:53

My thanks to those who support this blog. I won’t have time for a topics thread but please check back this weekend for news and market observations.

Comment by vthousingbear
2008-02-22 16:15:11

No. Thank you Ben!

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 17:25:02

Ben,

You’re slacking! (Thanks for all you do)!

Leigh ;)

 
Comment by SdGuY
2008-02-22 17:38:31

Being new here I would like to “thank you” for all the information.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-22 18:47:21

What are you doing more important that this blog? I never do anything more important than this blog. Witness the fact that I zip over to quickly read, and then post a jabber, all day long, lately. A couple days ago I was sitting in an incredibly boring meeting and I thought about killing the speaker so I could leave early, and check the threads.
Maybe there needs to be a support group for HBBers. Or maybe that guy should shut up, and save his life.
Whatever, my point is: are you planting tulip bulbs? Because that’s a worthy excuse, although little else is.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-22 18:53:36

There are some new house auctions in the area this weekend, and I want to familiarize myself with the process. If it will stop snowing.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-22 19:41:35

Okay. That, and tulip bulbs, are worthy uses of time.
Drive verrrry safely, Ben. I well remember this ’snow’ thing. It can very easily become no fun, and we just can’t spare you.
Hey! Good idea time! Wear that one shirt you have on in your last photo, the blue one, and with the little mummified head in the glass jar thingie, and have someone take your picture! Do it with like, a serious face, and then a playful face, and then a thoughtful face, so we can see all the faces of Ben.

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Comment by desi dude
2008-02-22 19:39:00

abcnews opened with ” home owners under water” wow .
8 million under water and it would only grow
Homes Worth Less Than Their Mortgages

Comment by az_lender
2008-02-22 23:59:14

The article was interesting enough, but I especially noted how many of the amateur commentators who belong HERE (”Learn to live within your means, idiot!”) were annoyed with some of the FB’s posting over THERE. So I posted a comment inviting some of them HERE.

Comment by severaltrickpony
2008-02-23 02:21:21

Nicely executed, az_lender!

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Comment by Shake
2008-02-22 16:15:43

‘Hard-money’ loans finding a market
By Jeff D. Opdyke | The Wall Street Journal
Published: 2/8/2008 12:45 AM
Some mortgage seekers spurned by banks and other traditional lenders are turning to high-cost loans known as “hard-money mortgages.”

Once thought of as a last resort for strapped borrowers, these products — also called “private-money mortgages” — have different lending standards than traditional mortgages and carry substantially higher interest rates and fees. These days, however, they are attracting a larger, more-affluent group of consumers. No organization tracks statistics in this highly fragmented industry, and many loans are made by private investors who report to no one. But anecdotally, business is booming.

At Miami-based Yale Mortgage Corp., one of the industry’s larger players, loan applications so far this year are up as much as 30 percent from a year earlier, translating to between 50 and 75 additional submissions every day. At Alliance Portfolio, a much smaller hard-money lender in Aliso Viejo, Calif., submissions have jumped 50 percent to about 50 a month in the wake of the subprime crisis that erupted over the summer.

Seattle Funding Group, a Bellevue, Wash., firm that is one of the largest hard-money lenders on the West Coast, recently installed a new phone system in part to handle the calls now flooding in from consumers desperate to fund new-home purchases and cash-out refinancings.

“Now that subprime has basically disappeared, the hard-money lenders are pretty much the only source of capital for many people,” says Daniel Yeh, a mortgage-industry analyst at the Scotsman Guide, a trade publication based in Bothell, Wash.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=129921

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-22 16:33:55

AZLender, a rebuttal?

Comment by JP
2008-02-22 16:38:03

It took me a second to realize that they were talking about az_lender and not Vinny and Guido’s Loan service by the docks.

Then again, maybe they’re the same type of operation? I keep hearing about how azlender has nobody in arrears. :)

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-02-23 00:11:35

Hi there xnnv. Yes, certain aspects of the article indicate that my experience is not typical. The article says between 35 and 40 percent of HM borrowers are somewhat behind at any given time. ??? gadzooks, that’s a lot. As you all know, NONE of my (few dozen) borrowers is behind at the moment, although that’s partly because we’re approaching the end of the month. At the beginning of the month, some of them will be a few days late. Another way in which my experience does not match the article is that the demand for my loans has weakened, not strengthened, as sales in “my” niche have become sluggish, and borrowers outside my niche hear about me only randomly. I don’t advertise except by posting a small index card in a few PHX area RV parks. The 30%-40% equity requirement does sound right, even though I used to lend 85% or sometimes even more. That was several years ago. It could be that one reason why my loan demand has fallen off is the simple fact that I’ve been saying “no” more often than I used to. I do refer them to someone else who would like to have a piece of my business, but so far, I don’t think these other HM wannabe-lenders have found my rejects appetizing.

 
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-22 16:38:28

“Hard-money lenders protect themselves by requiring that borrowers have substantial equity in their collateral — either their home, investment property or a business — of 30 percent to 40 percent or more.”

Another classic sign that the wanna-be vultures are coming out to play.

Comment by Blano
2008-02-22 17:07:08

Hard money lender popularity right now doesn’t make sense to me. By demanding 30-40 percent equity, how many customers can they actually do business with?? Doesn’t seem like many to me.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-02-22 18:13:03

Right, anyone with the audacity to ask for money down ought not to be very popular in culture where wealth=debt.

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Comment by Blano
2008-02-22 19:19:38

It’s not just the money down part.

On a couple occasions I called HM lenders about funding deals, and they were charging 12-18 percent and 5-8 points, PLUS they wanted 40 percent equity.

It had to be one helluva deal to make those numbers work. How many houses in today’s market could pull that off?? It can’t be many.

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-02-22 19:29:17

Whoa! As I’m sure you know, RE won’t be makin’ those kind of returns for a long, long, long time! (e.g. not in our lifetimes!)

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-02-23 00:14:06

Well, here’s where az_lender is a bargain. My interest rate is still the 9%-10% it’s always been.

 
 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 17:31:11

“But anecdotally, business is booming.”

Ex, anecodotally, reading select mortgage blogs, hard money is looking for 50% equity - some LO/Brokers accuse HM of *cherry picking* the best loans. (Da)!

My gut tells me this will end well!
Leigh

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-02-22 19:32:54

Perhaps hard money endings are doing loans for people with equity who cannot pass the new underwriting standards ,(at least that was the purpose those lenders served in the old days ). In other words,it’s rare that you see a hard money loan on a Purchase money transaction .

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Comment by snowbiker
2008-02-22 20:41:40

Seems like the HM lenders are betting that housing will be down by less than 50% by the time their borrowers give up. Interesting bet.

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Comment by az_lender
2008-02-23 00:23:35

You’re right. And my bet could be a bad one. But the properties I lend on are low-low end, I mean like, $75K for a lot with a small mobile on it plus a small fractional share of the park’s swimming pool, billiard room, laundromat, etc. In the early 90’s, this type of housing seemed to become MORE popular as times got hard.
Another point is that 80% of my notes are written for 15 years or shorter. The relatively rapid amortization is really what I’m counting on to save me. By the time the value has gone down by 50% (if it does), some part of the note will have been paid off, perhaps bringing the loan balance down below the new depreciated property value. Or, I could be whistling past the graveyard…
BTW i have just sold the only such trailer-park lot that I actually owned. I remain the proud (joke) owner of a Deming Ranchette, an acre-and-a-half for which I paid four hundred dollars in 1992. Hope I’ll never live THERE…

 
Comment by RoundSparrow
2008-02-23 23:13:47

az_lender - you sound like a an honest used car salesman. I say that as a complement ;)

It is pretty easy to be dishonest, that’s what makes being an honest one special.

Thanks for sharing details about your business.

 
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-22 22:30:03

Leigh,…..other blogs? How could you?!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-02-22 16:16:28

“Maxine Bates, president of the Norman Board of Realtors, told city leaders that the national hysteria over slowing home sales and a mortgage meltdown is comparable to Orson Welles’ infamous broadcast of War of the Worlds in 1938. The fictional broadcast panicked thousands of radio listeners into believing that Martians had landed on Earth.”

Someone ought to send some of these used home sellers free subscriptions to the WSJ, NY Times, Financial Times of London or The Economist in order to help convince them that the MSM does not just make up scare stories about credit market problems to create hardship for them.

Comment by Duane lapinski
2008-02-22 16:28:17

It won’t work. remember, See no evil, Speak no evil, Hear no evil. Thats how real estate shills function.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-22 17:49:11

I’m not good with proverbs, aphorisms, or cliches, as I’ve mentioned. I always remember it as: ‘See no evil, hear no evil, and before you know it fall down the basement stairs and bang your stupid pointy unobservant head on the washing machine down there.’

I like mine better.

Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 18:16:31

ROFLMAO - great visual Oly!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-22 18:51:57

Thanks, Leigh. And it’s an even nicer image if you add a REmax jacket. Think of all the splashing.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-22 16:37:30

Let’s not pass over a significant housing bubble development of the past months. Those that called me a doom and gloomer (for years) are now outdoing each other trying to paint as dire a picture as possible. All in order to scare the public into thinking something MUST BE DONE to keep these precious house prices from falling.

Like I said to the poster a few days ago, do you want to play along? Or do we insist this is a natural, inevitable correction that will benefit the economy and society in the long run?

If there’s was a crisis, it was the astronomical prices in the first place, not the logical descent back to earth.

Comment by Duane lapinski
2008-02-22 16:58:02

I am afraid that there is going be an attempt to prevent prices from falling to some reasonable leavel. Because that will be the easy political way to deal with the problem. Never mind that it will prolong the crisis.

I just remember the 1970’s, it took well over ten years of bungling before before real solutions were use to stop out-of-control inflation.

 
Comment by Michael Emmel
2008-02-22 17:58:18

Well I scanned a lot of houses around Irvine CA. First a lot of people are underwater and asking prices in a lot of cases back to 2004 with sales often around 2003 prices. Next a lot of fools who bought in the 1990’s are trying to make a killing or have heloced to the eyeballs. So I think a wave of foreclosures are coming. Next I think anyone selling now that bought in the 1990′-2002 could easily undercut prices by a 100k and still make a decent profit. So expect a few smart ones to price right to move their homes. So overall in all the areas I looked it things looked poised for a pretty fast price drops or foreclosure.
And sales are beyond dead. At the very high end 3 mill plus I’m seeing almost a million off in some case aka 33% price cuts. So its actually folding faster. Nothing moving. So I think this bubble is going to pop fast. Way to many people underwater.

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 18:08:05

What seems like eons ago, I believe you said a Resolution-like Trust Corp will be inevitable. (IIRC).

I see this as one of the best alternatives!

Wondering out loud if it may be to large/manageable?

Best,
Leigh

 
Comment by Matthew
2008-02-23 07:18:05

Ben… Long time reader, occasional contributor and big admirer of you and your blog.. All I’ll say is this world (and esp this country) needs more honest people of conviction like yourself..

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-02-23 07:56:49

“If there’s was a crisis, it was the astronomical prices in the first place, not the logical descent back to earth.”

I think this is where most of us are in total agreement.
It was amazing to watch all the political and business types swoon over rising house prices as though this was some new “wealth creation” that everyone needed to get in on. All it did was devalue working people’s money. What happened to the drive for “affordable housing” that you hear all these political hacks spouting all the time.
LOWER PRICES = Affordable housing.
However, a correcting market would not allow for a government program to build “affordable housing”, so we don’t need them and their programs. I think they prefer to support high prices and use tax money to pay builders to construct on seized lots so they can be seen as doing something for the poor.

Let the market correct. Only greedy people who overspent will be harmed. Borrowed against your house? Fine. Just keep making the payments.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-02-22 17:10:09

The names Norman and Bates appear in the same line. How appropriately creepy…

Comment by mad_tiger
2008-02-22 18:40:25

Ha! It is a bit ironic that the president of Norman’s Board of Realtors has the last name “Bates”.

 
 
Comment by SdGuY
2008-02-22 17:37:02

I liked the Line…..”“If you’ve got good credit and a job, you can get a loan,” she said……….
Really???
After reading that article I believe the “panic” appears to be her own…….

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-02-22 16:23:19

“‘Don’t wait too long,’ she said. “I’m living off my last commission check and might have to go back to Wal-Mart”

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-22 16:25:34

Pretty bubbly comments out of South Dakota! Whadda ya know.

 
Comment by Hoz
2008-02-22 16:36:18

“I don’t have to get all dressed up like I’m going to Wal-Mart or something,” she said casually.

(just Friday humor)

Comment by JP
2008-02-22 16:46:31

lol. I still remember that comment too.
BTW, thanks for your opinion about SKF this week. And I think you were one of the people that mentioned Eliot Spitzer put a gun to the head of banks to help recapitalize the monolines, which indicates it’s worth waiting to take a short position.

I’m hoping for MSM articles next week about how the AMBAC bailout is going to solve all our housing problems and that it’s safe to get back into real estate.

Comment by MrBubble
2008-02-22 19:32:18

Wish that I had seen those posts. Got out just in the nick of time at 116.04. Phew. In at 95ish. Better to be lucky than good on this one…

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Comment by aNYCdj
2008-02-22 18:00:39

“They treat me real nice at the 99 cent store and……

“I don’t have to get all dressed up like I’m going to Wal-Mart or something,” she said casually.

The original quote.

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 18:00:10

Hey Mo,

Again, anecodotally, reading and listening, even retailers are not hiring “housing people” (RE, LO, etc).

The main reason given by retailers/sales is that if the housing market DID pick back up (hahahahah), they’d leave for greener pastures.

Leigh

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-02-22 18:06:02

Leigh:

I tell eveyone maybe they commited mortgage fraud and you dont want a sheriff coming to arrest them. Let alone they falsified douments shredded them, deleted emails to cover thier tracks…

Is this the kind of Job experience that would be useful at your company?

Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 18:23:26

Hey aNCYdj!

No hard proof, just the word on the street - you seem to be correct!

I was on another board today, and LO set up a 800 # to disquise his/her history as an LO!

Totally fabricated a company, and said to be getting interviews. (how true this is I cannot say, wouldn’t surprise me though!)

Leigh ;)

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Comment by lainvestorgirl
2008-02-22 16:25:29

What kind of fraudulent crap was that they pulled in the last half hour of trading, some kind of bailout by the banks of their insurer? And where’s that money coming from, hmm? The commodities markets seem to know the answer to that one.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-22 16:29:30

Why you paid it LAIG, despite the reports that the lenders on the hook did. I suggest you stock up on guns, bullets and soldier of fortune magazines, post haste.

Comment by lainvestorgirl
2008-02-22 16:33:16

Guns and bullets: the next commodities bubble.

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2008-02-22 16:40:02

Jane………………

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-22 16:40:10

Actually, I’ve always said that the only commodities one needs are lead, and gunpowder surrounded with copper.

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Comment by Hoz
2008-02-22 16:49:31

Eat lead?

Just hope that we have a decent growing season or tomorrow’s food prices will seem incredibly cheap in 6 months.

 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-22 17:32:02

In other news, Ben Jones is up against Mel Gibson for the lead in “Max Max: Forward the Implosion”. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Brian
2008-02-22 17:32:56

After reading one of the first posts above, I’m thinking “hard-money lending” is the next bubble of choice.

“Hard-money lending”, the next bubble?

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Comment by az_lender
2008-02-23 00:36:36

Honestly guys, you should try it! Instead of grousing about how low the CD rates are. It’s not so hard to find someone buying a little teeny property and, well, you DO have to satisfy yourself that in the event of a default you will be made whole. Hence, no 30-year mortgage and no 90% loan. See a lawyer in your home state at the outset, just so you know the ropes, and also so that you have someone on board to write nasty letters for you when minor delinquencies occur. Use some title or escrow agency to prepare the promissory note and deed of trust the first few times. After that, do your own. Title searches ditto.

 
Comment by Brian
2008-02-23 01:05:38

What rate would you charge to loan me the capital to become a hard-money lender?

/irony

 
Comment by ljaycox
2008-02-23 07:16:13

Actually, I was wondering what kind return this skilled and intelligent lender could produce on some of my capital.

 
Comment by Bloz
2008-02-23 16:44:34

You can probably get the money through a home equity loan. ;-/

 
 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-22 16:41:37

Does anyone have a link to an article on how a bond insurer could be divided into a muni entity and a subprime/other debt entity successfully? If the collateral pools were mixed and now they are being divided, doesnt that have a disproportionate harmful effect on the subprime/other debt entity? I can think of numerous claims that the holders of debt instruments secured by the bond insurers could possibly raise if this was applied to split up existing deals and collateral pools therefor, and the two entities had materially different ratings.

Comment by WaitingInOC
2008-02-22 17:35:59

I think that this is the problem - they don’t have a good way to divide them. They understand that it would be good to do this, but so far they haven’t come up with a way to do it that wouldn’t engulf them in a host of lawsuits.

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Comment by Tim
2008-02-22 17:59:16

Thats my impression as well, as I cant see how it can be done either without massive litigation. If anyone has any ideas, I would be interested in hearing.

 
Comment by Hoz
2008-02-22 18:14:17

Change the margin requirements necessary for different transactions. Fait accompli

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-22 19:09:21

Are you anticipating totally separate entities with different collateral pools and no cross-collateralization. Its the division of assets into separate legal entities with no cross-collaterization on existing deals that is giving me some concern. I havent heard this is necessarily Ambac’s intent, but I hear rumblings about the topic.

 
Comment by Clair Voyant
2008-02-22 20:18:05

What choice is there? File for BK now or drag it out for more time. Who cares about lawsuits. Either way they’re toast. But breaking up the company buys time.

 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-22 18:09:09

So instead, the counterparties (banks) seem to be saying:
“All your equity are belong to us”

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Comment by txchick57
2008-02-22 16:41:52

lol. you forgot MRe

 
Comment by JP
2008-02-22 16:53:30

I suggest you stock up on guns, bullets and soldier of fortune magazines

I can’t believe you made me look, for the first time in decades. They’re online now too:
http://www.sofmag.com/news/index.html

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 18:14:36

HAR! This is why my hubby loves me so!

We’re eyeing a 9mm S&W - he gets special treatment if that baby is in my purty long finger tomorrow!

Woooohoooo!
Leigh

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-02-22 18:39:12

Living in place where other people think they can protect me far better than I can protect myself, I rather enjoy your firearms posts.

At least I can vicariously express my Constitutional right through those posts!

Signed, a sympathizer from deep behind enemy lines.

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-02-22 20:22:13

;-)

 
 
Comment by matt
2008-02-23 00:50:35

9mm? Go .40 or better, more stopping power.

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Comment by Mugsy
2008-02-23 03:40:58

Anything under .45 cal should have “Mattel” stamped on its slide :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by grumpy realist
2008-02-22 16:47:16

hedge funds et al covering shorts, thassall…

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-02-22 18:30:36

They’ve got massive wood for anything that even smells like good news as far as the financials are concerned.

 
Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-02-22 18:45:56

It’s one thing to throw good money after bad but to throw money you don’t have? This sure sounds like a “pump and dump” to me.

Comment by matt
2008-02-23 00:47:47

I agree. This solves nothing. It soaks up capital the banks need or puts them on the hook for more losses. Buy the rumor, sell the news.

 
 
 
Comment by mrincomestream
2008-02-22 16:33:23

“Herb remains a vociferous defender of his loans and says that if anything, his borrowers are suffering from the lax standards of other lenders in the form of rising foreclosures in their neighborhoods. ‘The answer to what went wrong was wild, irrational, volume-driven loans by people who didn’t give a damn about economics,’ he said.”

Bwwaaahhhhaaaa this guy…it would take a novel. He was very lucky to survive the last downturn. Now that Wachovia has bought his portfolio of sh** filled M&M’s he’s found religion. Someone who cares about economics Bwwwaaahhhaaa *sigh* too funny…

Comment by WaitingInOC
2008-02-22 17:19:00

I can’t say that I know much about his lending standards, but I do give the guy credit for knowing when to sell his company - he got out at the top of the market. I’m sure that GM wishes they had timed their sale of ResCap better.

Comment by Blano
2008-02-22 19:10:50

Not to mention selling all of it, instead of half like they did.

 
 
 
Comment by Hoz
2008-02-22 17:01:13

Bennett Lumber Products Inc.
Clarkston, WA
45% of work force to be laid off
Weyerhaeuser Company
Federal Way, WA
Kamloops, BC
Weyerhaeuser Co. said it is shutting down the Kamloops sawmill, laying off the mill’s 196 employees.

In the last three weeks there have been over 200 MAs filed. Even Hertz which just showed a large profit is laying off workers.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-02-22 18:45:22

Wait! More folks out of work, that means wages must certainly be going _________.

Comment by Blano
2008-02-22 19:12:26

Up of course…….more profits + fewer employees = higher wages??

sarcasm off

 
 
 
Comment by Emmi
2008-02-22 17:10:56

“Thus it is with the subprime debacle. The problem was not the lack of government oversight, but with the illusion of government oversight. Remove the illusion, and you solve the problem.”

Well, you solve one part of the problem by removing the delusion from the system. But that won’t get you a working system. It only gets you a system where no one rightly trusts anyone else. It ensures that the players, like a back alley craps game, have to constantly watch their own take, which isn’t efficient, nor possible in a system with far less transparency than a back alley craps game.

The FDA leaps to mind as a parallel situation. It is more dangerous for people to believe someone has actually double checked the studies the pharmaceuticals turned in for their drug approvals. And if they did double check that the career peon’s suggested rejection wasn’t overridden by the politicos higher up.

Comment by Climber
2008-02-22 17:56:33

There’s never been an adequate substitute for honesty.

Comment by exeter
2008-02-22 18:19:17

“There’s never been an adequate substitute for honesty.”

BINGO. But that fact never dissuades the loons who insist such matters be “left to the marketplace”.

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-02-23 08:10:08

While I agree with your assessment of most government agencies, I don’t believe government’s intrusion was the problem here.
The problem was the FEDERAL RESERVE’s policies of below zero interest rates.
Combined with terrible business results in most companies that had been overbought, there was NO safe haven for money. People looking for returns took what they thought was a risk-less venture into real estate. With NO MONEY DOWN, there was no risk.
The government should have made these loans illegal, knowing that there should be a minimum standard. The ratings agencies should have filled the role by letting the buyers of their unsecured notes that they were DDD, not AAA, but they also had a vested interest.
I see government’s hand in market manipulation more damaging than any enforcement of rules that were never imposed or enforced………free markets they were saying, but the government was putting a bottom in on foolish adventures (too big to fail).
They are trying to do it again. I would prefer they leave things alone now that the truth is slowly being revealed.
I think the reverse will happen. Now that things are going the other way, it’s time to step up with some rules and programs to support high prices.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-22 17:37:54

‘…is comparable to Orson Welles’ infamous broadcast of War of the Worlds in 1938. The fictional broadcast panicked thousands of radio listeners into believing that Martians had landed on Earth.”

Wha…? Dadgummit, you mean that was FICTION?! Why doesn’t anyone TELL me these things? Suddenly I feel very silly. I wonder what that big metal thingie is, then, if it’s not a Evil Martian Driven Earth Destroying Tripod. The one I’ve been shooting at for a couple years now.

Comment by Steve W
2008-02-22 19:59:33

Yes, that was fiction, but 95% of the US was swept up in the Body Snatchers Invasion 20 years ago. Those are the people who keep wanting to hear about Britney and Paris, do scrapbooking, hire life coaches…

We are the only true humans left…

Have a nice weekend :)

 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-22 17:55:15

“Maxine Bates, president of the Norman Board of Realtors, told city leaders that the national hysteria over slowing home sales and a mortgage meltdown is comparable to Orson Welles’ infamous broadcast of War of the Worlds in 1938.”

It appears that the body snatchers have invaded Norman, OK. Only a pod person could look at those numbers and insist that there was no bubble there. In the movie, the hero was sent to insane asylum as the town psychologist attributed the uproar to mass hysteria. It seems that the pods have spread world-wide this time.

 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-02-22 18:22:30

“It is only under the cloak of government monitoring that their advertising has the illusion of credibility.”

Not so fast. Does anyone who has watched TV recently find the advertising credible? Like the ones for male enhancement products? Or the ones for paycheck loans? How many people do not not know that mattress merchants are crooked? Jewelery merchants? Casino Indians? Hair rejuvenation and weight loss systems? Jenny Craig? A Las Vegas Wedding? A Mexican Divorce? A solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot? Or a baby’s arm holding an apple?

Oh, yeah. People are Smart.

nevermind.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-02-22 19:11:28

The thought that anyone would click on a link featuring a dancing digital female in order to get more information about the largest loan they will ever take on…is proof enough for me of the collapse of Western civilization.

And to think, for almost a century entire nations thought the Bolsheviks would do us in.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-02-22 19:38:06

Ha Ha Ha ….edgewaterjohn ..Your post made me laugh .

But , the world is getting more crazy and it seems as it there is a fungus among us .

 
 
Comment by vozworth
2008-02-22 20:45:39

if you can begin the understading of the rejection of modes of technology that do not fit the defined end users abiltity to unload the wallet…..

I saw a bum today going through his cell phone messages.
I listend to an article on NPR talking about federal/State aid for cell phones.
I heard an ad that said “I cant get a job because I dont have a cell phone”

I am forced to buy Sprint. Value, American, Subsidy, Not financial, under 9 bucks, Relational Investors, the list is actually longer, I detest this space, I reject cell phones (though I make the kids have them)

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-02-22 19:40:19

Supply side economics Chief Liar Art Laffer published this garbage circa Q4 2004.

“BURSTING THE MYTH OF A HOUSING BUBBLE”
http://tinyurl.com/3cb5sc

He lied about tax cuts, he lied about housing. He’s a fraud.

Comment by az_lender
2008-02-23 00:53:29

Interesting. House prices should never be compared to incomes, he says, because what you really have to look at is annual expense vs income. OK, swell. But he never gets around to debunking the price/rent ratio argument (unless I missed it). Anyway, Laffer, we’re the ones who are Laffing now.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-02-22 20:10:08

I just re-read “The Crowd” by Gustave Le Bon…

Written in 1895, it tells you all you need to know about how this bubble got going, and much more about how the uneducated hoi polloi elected a buffoon, to be President not once, but twice.

Highly Recommended!

Comment by Suzanne, I researched this!
2008-02-22 21:33:04

Stop reading Bubble Porn. You need to start watching Larry Kudlow and come back down to earth.

 
Comment by lainvestorgirl
2008-02-22 22:15:27

Thanks.

New good read: Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg.

 
Comment by lainvestorgirl
2008-02-23 08:53:24

Hey, alad, good read, thanks!

 
 
Comment by bearman
2008-02-24 00:47:40

anyone looking for the financial reasons of the bubble in Baltimore or in general link below…

http://thebaltimorehousingtimebomb.blogspot.com/

 
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