February 23, 2008

It Was Definitely A Bubble

The Daily Camera reports from Colorado. “The trucks and earthmovers have been out there so long that some Rock Creek residents joke that the construction zone along McCaslin Boulevard is beginning to resemble a training academy for heavy equipment operators rather than a building site. For 18 months, contractors for Calmante Rock Creek, a planned 75-unit luxury townhome development, have been grading the ground, building roads, and installing water lines and utilities.”

“But the first two buildings of the 15-building community, which the developer has been advertising for a spring and summer opening, haven’t even had their foundations poured yet.”

“‘I wonder if they are pushing dirt around for a couple of years while they’re seeing if the market is there,’ said Michelle Horton, who lives just south of the site.”

“She said it’s tough enough to unload a detached single-family home in today’s market, let alone townhomes ranging in price from $615,000 to $660,000.”

“Despite the cynicism he’s heard from some townspeople, David Chaknova, president of Calmante Residential Development, said he’s confident the townhomes will sell. The highly customizable units, which range in size from 3,200 square feet to 4,000 square feet, will have special appeal to young professionals and empty-nesters looking to live in a low-maintenance setting, Chaknova said.”

“‘Our marketing study shows us that there is a tremendous market for what we’re building out there,’ he said.”

“But Erik Fransen, an 11-year Rock Creek resident who passes by the Calmante Rock Creek site nearly every day, said he’ll believe it when he sees it.”

“‘If I were an investor, I would be a little worried about my investment if they are only going to put in homes that a Powerball winner can afford,’ he said.”

From 9 News in Colorado. “Adams County has the highest foreclosure rate in Colorado. According to the most recent analysis from the Colorado Division of Housing, one out of every 23 properties in Adams County filed for foreclosure in 2007. In 2001, there were 799 foreclosures in Adams County. Last year, there were more than 6,200.”

“The county’s public trustee, Carol Snyder, says foreclosure is hitting across the board and not striking any particular type of property. ‘We’re foreclosing on businesses, we’re foreclosing on apartments, complexes, shopping centers, we’re foreclosing on million dollar homes we’re foreclosing on 60-thousand dollar homes,’ said Snyder.”

“In the Reunion Community in Commerce City, Alan Barnes sees a very fluid pool of neighbors. Two neighbors recently went through foreclosure. ‘It’s almost like apartment living, everybody is here today, gone tomorrow. You never know who is going to be to your neighbor next year,’ said Barnes.”

“Snyder wanted to emphasis that there are ‘good things’ happening in Adams County. She cited a big boom in growth and construction. ‘Some of those good things have lead to some of the foreclosure issues,’ Snyder said.

“Snyder said developers over-built, buyers were unaware about ‘questionable’ lending practices and government officials did not have enough oversight of the entire situation. ‘It’s the perfect storm, and now we have to weather it,’ said Snyder.”

The New York Times on Colorado. “At first sight, Edwards, high in the mountains of central Colorado, comes across as a jigsaw puzzle whose pieces don’t quite fit. Its cluster of playing fields, uniformly spaced town houses and a downtown made up of a handful of commercial centers built in the last 15 years or so make Edwards feel more like a planned suburb than a thriving resort community.”

“But resort community is exactly what Edwards is. With its easy access to skiing, golfing and hiking, Edwards attracts active baby boomers who want recreation coupled with upscale comforts, at housing prices slightly less staggering than those in neighboring Beaver Creek and Vail.”

“Eddie and Melissa Branscomb of Clemmons, N.C., who love to ski, wanted a vacation home large enough to accommodate their six boys. Last fall they bought a four-year-old, 6,700-square-foot house in Edwards’s Singletree subdivision for just under $2.6 million.”

“‘If we put this house over in Beaver Creek, it’d be a little over double what it was in Singletree,’ Mr. Branscomb said. ‘Edwards is a good place for somebody who doesn’t have an unlimited budget.’”

The Arizona Republic. “Theresa and Tom Love are in a spot. They’ve been separated six months, as he relocated to Washington for a job while she and their two children remain in El Mirage to sell their three-bedroom home.”

“They are just a few of the everyday people caught up in an ongoing story of housing woes, as foreclosures rise and markets tumble. Most recently, the county assessor reported that for the first time in years, 94 percent of home valuations in Maricopa County dropped.”

“Three communities in the southwest Valley top the devaluation list: Buckeye valuations plummeted nearly 25 percent, Avondale dropped nearly 22 percent and Goodyear fell 20 percent.”

“The Loves bought the home for $110,000 in 2002. Their equity grew in the once-hot market, so they refinanced and upgraded. Their Redfield Road home went on the market six months ago for $199,000. Their asking price now is $179,000.”

“Tom Love said that would pay off the mortgage and leave $2,000 for his family to rent a U-Haul and head north. ‘The only thing keeping my family away from me is my house,’ he said.”

“The region’s success became its downfall. ‘At first, buyers were lured because of the affordability, but as the months went by, there was very little difference in price between homes in the outskirts and those in Phoenix,’ said Margie O’Campo de Castillo with Arizona Dream Realty.”

“Buckeye, on the outskirts of the West Valley, largely sprang from the desert during the housing market’s run-up. ‘There really wasn’t anything established in Buckeye prior to the boom, and they are still lacking in infrastructure,’ said Realtor Bridgette Gavagan. ‘It’s got to re-adjust.’”

“Buckeye resident and home builder Michael Marler knows that all too well. Not long ago, the small builder couldn’t knock out homes fast enough. He said he recently sold a home, after nine months on the market, on a one-acre lot between Goodyear and Buckeye, for $290,000.”

“The exact model in the same area sold for $385,000, or $95,000 more, a year ago.”

“‘It’s horrendous,’ he said. He added, ‘It was definitely a bubble.’”

“The high number of foreclosed homes, which usually sell below market value, are lowering home values further. In El Mirage, nearly 21 percent of home listings are foreclosures, Gavagan said. In Surprise, nearly 14 percent are foreclosures, she said.”

“Home builders in Arizona, whose lavish incentives haven’t attracted buyers in the slumping market, are turning to the auction block as a last resort to sell empty houses.”

“Scottsdale-based Cachet Homes is auctioning 28 of its luxury homes on Sunday in the West Valley, some once priced at more than $750,000. Bids start at about half of the homes’ original prices. Most properties will have no minimum reserve. The developer is following a national trend of builders’ letting home buyers set their own prices.”

“In March, 24 condominiums at Dobson Bay Club in Mesa will be sold in an auction. Promotional materials for the event say eight of them will be sold regardless of price.”

“In Arizona and nationally, home builders are faced with a glut of unsold homes and canceled contracts, as well as less traffic and fewer offers at their developments. Potential customers are fighting suddenly stiffer credit hurdles and often the challenge of selling their existing homes.”

“Cachet has faced similar problems with its homes at Verrado, a DMB master-planned community in Buckeye. ‘We’re tired of being landlords; we’d rather be builders,’ Byrne said.”

“Recent marketing strategies, such as promising two-year Lexus leases with home sales last fall, failed to unload enough inventory, she said. ‘We would like to see those homes filled up with families,’ Byrne said.”

“‘Not only is it a cost drag every month to keep (inventory) on hand and fresh,’ said RL Brown, publisher of the Phoenix Housing Market Letter, ‘as long as a builder has inventory, his lenders are likely not going to allow him to build more houses.’”

“Current Cachet Homes property owners visiting the auction office Thursday said they had paid ‘royally’ a year ago to live in Verrado and were concerned about the auction’s low starting bids.”

“Cachet is offering 15 townhomes and 13 single-family homes at Verrado, as well as 16 condos at Flagstaff Ranch in Flagstaff. The prices just cover Cachet’s costs to build, Byrne said. The cheapest in the Verrado collection is a 1,975-square-foot townhome with three bedrooms and two baths starting at $190,000. Original price tag: $349,900.”

“The highest-priced house, at almost 5,000 square feet, features four bedrooms, a game room and 3.5 baths. It’s going for $375,000, a markdown of 55 percent.”

“Despite current residents’ worries about pricing, marketing agents said sales could reach original listing prices with enough competition among bidders. Brown said the strategy could create a ‘mini-market frenzy,’ driving up prices through bidding even better than other methods of sale.”

“‘If this auction has success,’ he said, ‘you’re going to see auctions galore.’”

The Arizona Daily Star. “Amid a worsening new-home sales slump, K. Hovnanian is taking a bet on success in a retiree-oriented development in Vail. The builder is scheduled to open the age-restricted Four Seasons Rancho del Lago to buyers today, according to a press release.”

“The community will include 522 homes starting in the upper $180,000s.”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “Sales of new homes hit a 15-year low in January with 881 closings, a 56 percent decline from the same month a year ago, as the Las Vegas housing market continues to work its way to the bottom.”

“The last time monthly new-home sales fell below 1,000 was May 1993, when there were 990 sales, housing analyst Dennis Smith of Home Builders Research said.”

“‘It’ll pick up,’ he said. ‘Want to bet? The numbers are bad. You can’t hide the numbers. But the good thing is the cycle is moving. We’re not dead in the water.’”

“The median price of a new home in January was $274,000, down nearly $61,000, or 18.2 percent, from a year ago, Home Builders Research reported.”

“Centex has been selling nine homes a month in the Mesa Verde community of North Las Vegas for $97 to $113 a square foot, a price that hasn’t existed for eight years, he said.”

“Smith counted 1,488 resales in January, down 38.6 percent from a year ago. The median price of an existing home dropped 14.4 percent to $239,900.”

“Larry Murphy of Las Vegas-based SalesTraq said it’s the first time he’s counted more foreclosures than resales. He showed 2,177 repossessed homes in January, compared with 1,061 existing home closings.”

“There are 34,026 homes in foreclosure in Las Vegas, the latest statistics from RealtyTrac show.”

“‘I said we were near the bottom, but I have an empty feeling about that,’ Murphy said. ‘I’m giving up. I’m just going to report the numbers. I’m not going to make any more predictions.’”

“Alex Edelstein, developer of Manhattan and ManhattanWest midrise luxury condos in Las Vegas, said the decline in resale inventory since September is a new phenomenon. He estimated 50 homes are being rented out or taken off the market every day.”

“‘There has been a tendency to focus on foreclosures and distressed sellers, but most sellers are smart enough to know that if they hold on, they’re going to get a much better price in a year or two,’ Edelstein said.”

In Business Las Vegas. “Seeing a business opportunity to attract buyers, Jennifer Weinberg and Andrew Newcomb of Prudential Americana launched a twice-a-week bus tour of foreclosed-upon Las Vegas homes. The bank-owned homes are substantially discounted to lure buyers, Weinberg says. She and her partner are targeting homes generally between $200,000 to $300,000 that in some cases were once worth nearly double.”

“‘The banks have so much inventory that they are trying to get it off the books,’ Weinberg said. ‘They figured out the way to move them is to price them between $120 and $130 a (square) foot.’ Homes had been valued at more than $200 a square foot, she says.”

“Weinberg says she believes the market has hit bottom because investors are searching for opportunities. Finding buyers for the foreclosures will be helpful in getting the housing market jumpstarted again, she says.”

“‘We’ve got to get the inventory down before we start to see homes appreciate again,’ she says.”




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82 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-23 08:05:46

‘He said he recently sold a home, after nine months on the market, on a one-acre lot between Goodyear and Buckeye, for $290,000. The exact model in the same area sold for $385,000, or $95,000 more, a year ago. ‘It’s horrendous,’ he said. He added, ‘It was definitely a bubble.’

Notice this guy doesn’t say, ‘I’m gonna put myself out of work and stop building so these folks don’t lose money.’ The same with Hovnanian. I recall in 2005, I mentioned to some RE guys I know that a local public builder would eventually undercut their own buyers, I was told, ‘they wouldn’t do that!’ Now it happens every day.

Some news from Flagstaff

‘Community Development Director Mark Landsiedel told the council that his planning staff had approved about 450 building permits this year that had not been picked up by developers. He said it isn’t unusual for developers to delay picking up their building permits, but the large volume was an indication of a slow residential market.’

‘He told the council that developers pay between 20 percent and 25 percent of the fee prior to picking up their permits, but he had no estimate on the amount of revenue not yet collected from the idle permits.’

‘Finance and Budget Manager Barbara Goodrich added the city should anticipate $1 million less in revenue related to construction activity this fiscal year.’

Comment by crash1
2008-02-23 08:43:38

In my office, I have a whole file cabinet full of permits that have not been picked up. We collect a plan review fee at the time applications are brought in. So basicly, we’re just collecting fees to pay gov employees to review a lot of projects that will never be built. My favorite this week was a new strip mall project proposed to be built right next to an existing strip mall next door that has had 50% occupancy for the last five or six years.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 08:53:22

You have got me thinking more about the issue of land values correcting more rapidly and/or severely than housing values. Is this trend also showing up in single lot sales, as opposed to just the sale of large tracks of land which developers may have to unload quickly to a limited market of qualified buyers? If so I need to start considering whether the best option would be to purchase a lot and build new when I think the timing is right then buy used. It had not previously crossed my mind.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-23 09:08:59

I’m sure it depends on where you are. Here in N AZ, the vast majority of lots aren’t held in large blocks. Also, even within subdivisions, individual lots are owned sometimes by flippers, etc. Lot prices are falling faster in every market I can think of.

Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 09:34:04

That should have been “tracts” rather than “tracks” in my post. I guess one issue for me to consider (as mine would be a residence for myself) is whether it will get so bad that used housing values will fall below the cost to build taking into account land acquistion costs. At least I now see the issue more clearly.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-23 09:48:58

We’ve already seen that. In either Modesto or Merced, I forget, it was reported that sales prices were in some cases 50% of current build costs. Keep in mind that the entire economy will probably see some restructuring, so some will never regain 2005-06 prices. It happened in Houston.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 10:14:37

Since it’s a play on land values, I would expect that the more land value plays in sales prices of homes in the area the better the play. For example, waterfront properties or intown properties where land value may constitute 50% or more of sales price. I will start tracking land values in places I might like to build a retirement home. Preferably secluded lakefront acreage close to a nice small town, and not too far from a major city.

 
Comment by SdGuY
2008-02-23 11:01:37

Tim, I am in the same situation.I was looking at land to build a retirement home.The current market crash has led me back to looking at homes.The article yesterday about the builder mentioned homes dropping another 20% and land dropping 25%.I am currently watching both.
I honestly believe there will be great deals on both in the near future.One has to way the cost of building and also how long from now you plan on building.Specific areas will also vary depending on the inventory of homes for sale.
The area I am watching is falling monthly.Sales are way down but land seems to be selling at a higher pace.
If homes drop another 20% or more I will probably purchase a home rather then build.
Ill be ready when the time is right.I am in no hurry and think the choices will be plentiful

 
Comment by RoundSparrow
2008-02-23 11:07:50

I will start tracking land values in places I might like to build a retirement home. Preferably secluded lakefront acreage close to a nice small town, and not too far from a major city.

Canyon Lake, TX

Texas without tornadoes, liberal escapes if you want (Austin), I can drive to San Antonio in 35 minutes one-way (Costco, Home Depot, Super Target close). 10Mbps fibre internet.

Land is often listed about $30K/acre (within 1/2 mile of lake) even at today’s inflated prices and I expect it to go down. Lakefront I’m not ad informed on the prices… mostly smaller lots are what people want, but I’m sure some decent ones out there. Also a few gated areas, but also just the non Nazi $40/year neighborhood associations. Mostly they are trying to prevent people who park an RV on a spot for 10 years and consider that home ;)

Property taxes are higher here in Texas, but I think they have a plan for those over certain age.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 11:29:43

Thanks for the info. I will check it out on the net.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 11:38:17

Sdguy - One alternative play im thinking about is getting a small cabin on nice lake acreage that is at least funtional so that I can buy at a low and get some enjoyment of it before I actually build the retirement home. Im thinking 2 years out before I would buy real estate. Im stashing the money away now though.

 
Comment by SdGuY
2008-02-23 12:03:34

Yes we are in the same situation.Im also looking at older homes that could use a little help but are still structually sound.I have the spare time to be able to handle a fixer if the price is right.The options are many for me since I am not looking for an investment (bank account).We are just looking for an affordable place to live.
I currently rent in San Diego.After renting and saving I am looking forward to owning something again when its right for us.

 
 
 
Comment by jcon
2008-02-24 07:53:27

You hit the nail on the head Tim. Land value has just starting dropping. Building materials have not been this low sience 2001 and the hungry contractors and subs are willing to cut thier labor costs to keep working. The problem, land is still “currently” over valued. Good luck finding a lot. There has never been a better time to build.

 
 
 
Comment by neon kitty lips
2008-02-23 08:19:31

Last fall they bought a four-year-old, 6,700-square-foot house in Edwards’s Singletree subdivision for just under $2.6 million.” ‘Edwards is a good place for somebody who doesn’t have an unlimited budget.’”

What’s this about? They have a limited budget, but they can buy a house for $2.6 mil? What planet do they think they are living on….

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:24:37

Uranus!

Comment by desmo
2008-02-23 12:56:42

Uranus!

I get it.

 
Comment by Otis Wildflower
2008-02-24 11:00:39

Didn’t you hear? The International Astronomical Union has decided to rename that planet because of all the dirty jokes.. It is now “Urectum”.

/Farnsworth

 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 09:57:04

Also note it was a vacation home they purchased because they like to ski sometimes. I wish my income was so limited. Anyways, I think it would be cheaper and more enjoyable to go to a different ski location each year. Perhaps even leave the Country. It would also be more educational for their children.

Comment by Blano
2008-02-23 10:39:40

If they rented a nice townhouse or something for a couple weeks, anywhere in the US/world, how long would it take to add up to $2.6 million??

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-02-23 11:07:19

They’re implicitly betting on the “RE only goes up”. They just don’t want to admit it.

People have an unlimited amount of delusion about “oh, the children need it”, or “I go skiing often”. That’s because they make decisions first, and then go around looking for reasons to confirm them.

When you point out the actual dollars and cents involved, they look at you as if you had spent the last twenty minutes sodom*zing their dead grandmother with a rubber d*ldo.

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Comment by betamax
2008-02-23 13:10:47

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

 
Comment by mrincomestream
2008-02-23 17:43:38

LOL…

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-02-23 11:19:04

Not to mention that they live in North Carolina. What, the Appalacian Mountains aren’t steep enough for them? For 2.6 mil they could probably build a mountain in their own back yard.

 
Comment by SaladSD
2008-02-23 18:49:34

Yeah, it’s like when wealthy retired folks say they’re living on a “fixed income” as if we’re supposed to feel sorry for their “fixed” 60K a month…

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-02-23 10:01:37

Yes, that one struck me also. Edwards is not considered all that great by many who know their options in Colorado, it’s like a scaled-down version of Vail, in a tight valley with a freeway and very master planned feeling (read: controlled out the wazoo). It’s really a bedroom community for Vail employees. For 2.6 mil, you could have an exceptional property in many nicer places in Colorado, ski areas even if that’s your forte (Steamboat Springs, Telluride, Purgatory, etc.). Or a beautiful ranch somewhere like Dolores or Montrose.

Comment by Isabel
2008-02-23 10:09:51

Yea but money spent on rentals and vacations is just “cash in the trash” and if you buy close to Vail it is an investment, where you will actually make incredible amounts of money, in addition to all the snob appeal of owning a property in Colorado… oh wait a minute, never mind…..:-)

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-02-23 11:06:10

Isabel, you’re in Wyoming, right? Where sanity still rules somewhat (excluding Jackson)? The state where the true contrarian buys and doesn’t have to put up with such nonsense as snob appeal. I love parts of Wyoming.

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Comment by Former FB
2008-02-23 15:30:20

I love parts of Wyoming, too, but the bubble really needs to pop there. As with everything else, they are behind, and think “it’s different here”. There are almost no jobs there, and right now you can pay the same amount there for a house as you can pay in lots of other places (with jobs!) that are just as nice.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Matthew
2008-02-23 08:20:50

“Weinberg says she believes the market has hit bottom because investors are searching for opportunities. Finding buyers for the foreclosures will be helpful in getting the housing market jumpstarted again, she says.”

Nah… this is just the first cycle sweetheart… get use to it.. wash, rinse and repeat until we reach historic prices well south of where we are today despite your “educated” predictions..

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:16:10

Does anybody else when hearing about these foreclosure bus tours have fantasies of pummeling these a–holes with an endless stream of eggs and tomatoes? It seems that there might be a potential business opportunity. I’m sure neighbors in the neighborhoods would gladly pay a few bucks to get in some shots at those buses. Just make sure you hard boil the eggs first.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-02-23 09:37:12

Yep, the neighbors would much rather those houses stay vacant, to attract squatters and copper thieves. A further incentive to keeping them vacant is that comps will be driven down even more when they’re bought next year for even less.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:44:23

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the……….

Do you think the neighbors would really understand that the Misery Tours are their best hope to get those houses sold?

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Comment by Blano
2008-02-23 10:40:59

Oh I don’t know, the raw, drippy ones might have better effect.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 10:41:21

I would go on one day just for fun. Isn’t part of the problem that it is hard to get scheduled showings for foreclosure properties. It was my understanding that in many cases they force you to guess what the inside looks like. If they left them open for inspection by anyone at least one day a week, and a list of the open houses was easily publically available, wouldnt this go away?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-02-23 14:40:06

You’re right about banks seemingly not caring about how quickly they offload their REOs. The house we bought here had been foreclosed almost a year before we bought it, but people who bought in our community just a month or so earlier than we did told us it hadn’t been on the market when they were looking. However, it was in the MLS, and had a lockbox, when we started looking.

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Comment by reuven
2008-02-23 08:32:13

“The Loves bought the home for $110,000 in 2002. Their equity grew in the once-hot market, so they refinanced and upgraded. Their Redfield Road home went on the market six months ago for $199,000. Their asking price now is $179,000.”

TFA doesn’t say that they’re trying to sell because the Loves can’t make the payments; it just says they’re trying to sell.

Who the heck would buy a house in 2002, spend borrowed money to fix it up, and then put it on the market just 5 years later?

If you read between the lines, these folks must have thought this house was a “get rich quick” scheme, and not a place to live in!

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:18:16

“Who the heck would buy a house in 2002, spend borrowed money to fix it up, and then put it on the market just 5 years later?”

Everybody not on this blog.

I love how there is now a disclaimer at the beginning of “Flip That House” about “real people risking real money”. Once again “risk” is just a 4-letter word.

Comment by Bubble Butt
2008-02-23 09:55:44

Risk, a four letter word. Funny.

Amazing how they gloss over that it is real people risking the banks money. Lot less risk involved if it is not your own money you are putting up.

 
 
Comment by SdGuY
2008-02-23 12:15:21

The article does say “as he relocated to Washington for a job “.

Now if they had to move and could sell the house for $125-$150K they could have left with CASH……but noooo.They “so they refinanced and upgraded.”
Does anyone believe they spent all that money on upgrades?
The “equity” grew but also came back to bite them in the rear.Another case of using a “home” as a bank account that will fail miserably.

Comment by reuven
2008-02-23 17:13:58

He doesn’t have a job in Washington. It says he relocated in hopes of starting a music ministry!

 
 
Comment by BuyerWillEPB
2008-02-24 19:03:51

‘The only thing keeping my family away from me is my house,’ he said.”
===========================================================

Correction. It should have read like this:

‘The only thing keeping my family away from me is my houseGreed,’ he said.”

 
 
Comment by boulderbo
2008-02-23 08:35:35

There over 600 condo units in Boulder proper that are priced above $500,000. Guess how many are existing–15. The rest are spec. I passed by a project that a good friend is building (a converted mortuary if you can believe it). The sign says “ONLY 4 UNITS LEFT”. Unfortunately there are only 4 units in the projects, priced from $3-4M each. Gonna be blood on the streets when this is over.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-02-23 10:05:56

Who would want to live in a converted mortuary? Not me.

In Moab, Utah, a mortuary built a brand new large stucco building and operated their business there for a year or two, then sold the structure to some speculator. He/she tried to rent it out for a couple of years (good location, BTW) and finally ended up renting it to the local thrift shop. no other takers.

Comment by Blackbox
2008-02-23 11:02:18

Yep, anyone who buys right now will be dying to get out of it in a couple of years

Comment by neon kitty lips
2008-02-23 13:29:19

I got it…..

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Comment by Silverback1011
2008-02-23 16:46:53

Actually, I remember an article in the Detroit Sunday paper a few months ago about a widow whose had owned a furniture business ( if memory serves - it does less and less these days unfortuantely ) for many years in downtown Plymouth. They were good, honest people, but as with so many businesses, times changed, and people didin’t buy like they used to. Then her husband died. Everything they had was mortgaged up to the hilt to keep their business open. The inventory had to be sold off at a big loss after her husband died. The building the business was in was put on the market. To my amazement, in depressed Michigan, someone had offered her $890,000 for the structure, AND SHE TURNED IT DOWN !!! I felt bad for her, but thought whoever gave her that crappy piece of advice ought to have been shot. This was in Nov. ‘07 or so. In the article, it said she was renting out sections of the building to local craftspeople ( we’re talking crocheted afghans and handmade teddy bears here ) so they could sell their wares for the Christmas season, to HELP HER PAY THE TAXES & HEAT. OH GOD. I don’t have any update on her situation and I don’t really want to. Plymouth is expensive and the taxes, much less the utility bills, must be pretty steep. Her home was going in foreclosure, as I recall. I would have taken the $$, paid off my home, and lived safe and snug until I died.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-02-23 08:41:42

“‘There has been a tendency to focus on foreclosures and distressed sellers, but most sellers are smart enough to know that if they hold on, they’re going to get a much better price in a year or two,’ Edelstein said.”

BWAH-HA-HA-HA!! CAH-MI-DEEEEEEE!!!

 
Comment by Matthew
2008-02-23 08:43:07

Ah yes, another “business is picking up” quote from a Realtor or Mortgage broker… hearing those too over here in Marin County where we never really had a bubble, don’t ya know.. Of course, what the RE machine wants everyone to believe by using this phrase is that they’ve lit the fuse again, and the housing market rocket is now in a countdown … yea, right.. anything looks like a “pick up” when sales are at historic lows… think I’ll pass…

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:22:22

They can lie all they want but their over-drafted accounts tell the truth all the time.

 
 
Comment by crash1
2008-02-23 08:47:14

“Snyder wanted to emphasis that there are ‘good things’ happening in Adams County. She cited a big boom in growth and construction. ‘Some of those good things have lead to some of the foreclosure issues,’ Snyder said.

Sounds logical to me.

 
Comment by pmeeks
2008-02-23 08:56:06

“The Loves bought the home for $110,000 in 2002. Their equity grew in the once-hot market, so they refinanced and upgraded. Their Redfield Road home went on the market six months ago for $199,000. Their asking price now is $179,000.”

I wonder if he’s factoring in the percentage the Realtor is going to take plus the 10-15% off the top any real offer is going to bring him, plus the closing cost he’s probably going to have to pay to get a buyer to play with him.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:21:14

My favorite part of this thread was the math.

Total sales in January = 881
Number of houses in foreclosure process = 34,026

That would be nearly 40 months of inventory, just from foreclosures, at the January sales rate. I guess there will be more and more “Magical Misery Tours” circling like buzzards in Las Vegas.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-02-23 09:52:33

I’m glad you caught that. On the last article it states that 6,000 foreclosures are on the MLS. So 28,000 potential foreclosures aren’t. Sounds to me like overall inventory has spiked in LV, yet the USH are reporting it as down (per MLS).

 
Comment by Ponzi House
2008-02-23 09:55:41

The Magical Misery Tour is taking your mortgage away, taking your mortgage away — but not today.

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:29:51

In October 2005 a co-worker was retiring to Las Vegas. She bragged how the house they had bought was “already worth $30,000 more”. They were buying in some new subdivision in land-starved Vegas. I had already found the HBB and told her that it was best to be careful, the boom couldn’t last forever. I got the old, “everybody wants to be in Vegas”, “it’s different there”, “all the rich retirees” crap. It was like a bullsh*t buffet.

Here’s the question. I figure her house must now be worth much less than what they paid. Does somebody that is so unwilling to listen to anything that conflicts with their preset notions deserve any sympathy? I am wrestling with that question for several people around us that would not listen and are now toast.

Comment by SolvingADream
2008-02-23 09:37:12

And you can almost bet that she would not remember that conversation if you reminded her. Been there, done that.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-02-23 09:40:58

How many of us are getting “well, you knew it couldn’t last” from people that were 100% convinced that it would last forever? The Sympathy Meter falls even further.

Comment by Bubble Butt
2008-02-23 09:57:40

I raise my hand.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by vmaxer
2008-02-23 09:46:24

“Does somebody that is so unwilling to listen to anything that conflicts with their preset notions deserve any sympathy?”

Friendship maybe, sympathy no.

When a child touches a hot stove and burns their fingers, they’re unlikely to do it again. The collective intelligence of this country has been warped into some sort of set of childish expectations. It’s time for some lessons to be learned.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-02-23 09:46:33

Tough call, NYCB. I believe Schadenfreude can be carried to an extreme. But sympathy also can, as when the govt starts reaching for my wallet.

 
Comment by david cee
2008-02-23 09:48:32

“I am wrestling with that question for several people around us that would not listen and are now toast. ”

NYCityBoy: You probably don’t want to hear this, but at least your friend “got in” before mortgage rates explode.
Las Vegas, conforming (less than $417,000)
is 6% WITH about $2000 in fees. Jumbo is now at 6.5% if you buy the rate with $9000 in fees, or 7.13% with $500 in fees. Based on the current inflation, the economy, unemployment that is rising, the huge loses to the elevated risk, long tem mortgage rates are heading for double digits.
How will you feel with 20% down, tougher qualification, and 10% mortgage interest.

Comment by txchick57
2008-02-23 10:06:09

Like renting forever. No big deal.

 
Comment by vmaxer
2008-02-23 10:36:04

“How will you feel with 20% down, tougher qualification, and 10% mortgage interest.”

I’d welcome it. Prices would be forced lower. I’d get a 10% mortgage on a smaller principal, take the tax deduction, then refinance when rates came down.

 
Comment by Blano
2008-02-23 10:49:43

What difference does that make if you’re underwater $100,000 or more??

 
Comment by Tim
2008-02-23 10:51:55

Exactly who is my competition driving up demand and where are they getting their cash and credit? I, and many here in my position, would be able buy in a low principal and high interest rate environment using the cash we saved while renting (many could do so for the entire purchase price). When rates fall again, I would consider a refi and put my money to better use depending on my belief of the state of the economy at such time. The world you describe would put those in my situation in a strong advantage.

 
Comment by 01/20/2009 end of an error
2008-02-23 11:04:02

I will feel great because then I get to pay cash.

 
Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-02-23 11:27:27

When I get around to buying I hope the 30-year rate is 10%. Real estate prices generally move inversely with interest rates. I’ll be buying all cash so I get the benefit of restrained prices without the cost of a higher monthly payment.

 
Comment by Sarah
2008-02-23 11:42:48

I dont think low sales prices and high interests rates would scare many in this unique group. If we took a vote, my hunch is that most would prefer it. Prudent savers are us.

 
 
Comment by Lip
2008-02-23 10:04:07

NYCB,

If “you” felt sorry for someone we’d all be shocked.

Just kidding, in reality, its hard not to listen to the financial ruin that’s happening and which will be happening. Just talked to my neighbor who had to cash out his entire retirement fund to pay off debts he generated while trying to play RE investor. He’s 45 and he’s starting over. But at least he has a nice home, his health, and a steady job that is recession proof (govt).

In a weird sort of way, we’re all going to be better off because we’ll be forced to take care of each other, our families, and our friends.

 
Comment by Isabel
2008-02-23 10:04:27

Most of my sympathy for things is feigned anyway. It is hard to identify with people who do stupid stuff that you would not do. On the other hand, I was much less smart about economic things when I was in my 20’s and early 30’s than I am now. I reserve my sympathy for those who are young, take responsiblity and learn from they mistakes. Pepole over 40 on their third real estate buy deserves no sympathy, the flippers and the flippers lite (those with only one or two properties) deserve no sympathy. I have a (former) friend who bought in Davis California for a flip in 2004. Didn’t get it done and gone in 2005 like she should have, has, I believe, pulled all of her equity out of her primary residence to hang on to the house in Davis and is finally getting around to actually getting the property put back together and ready to sell. I am tracking the price drop on Zillow. Zillow doesn’t know that they house is essentially gutted, and still lists the value currently at 25k less than they paid for it in the fall of 2004. It take drops every month now of about 10k. When she loses both houses I will make sympathetic noises as long as I can stand to, but when the whining gets too overbearing I will probably tell her what I REALLY think. I feel some what sorrier for her husband because he goes along with these schemes in order to keep the peace but after all he did marry her and should have known what he was in for. She can be an incredible B**tch when crossed.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-02-23 15:05:03

Thanks for making an excellent argument not to EVER get married…at least not without a prenup.

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-02-23 10:09:30

“Does somebody that is so unwilling to listen to anything that conflicts with their preset notions deserve any sympathy?”

Short answer: No.

 
Comment by Blano
2008-02-23 10:50:54

“Bullsh*t buffet”…..HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Great one.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-23 11:17:56

‘Does somebody that is so unwilling to listen to anything that conflicts with their preset notions deserve any sympathy?’

Do you REALLY not know the answer to that? What’d you do with our beloved NYCityboy, you awful, mild-natured pod person!!? Begone!

 
Comment by SdGuY
2008-02-23 11:53:20

sympathy? I have none ,zero…….Anyone that fell into the trap,used thier home as a bank account,overspent,lived above thier means gets no sympathy from me.
I even have a family member that wouldnt listen.They are nearing retirement and are in way over thier head.The home they have lived for a very long time has lost value every month.They are now upside down in a home they could have easily paid off years ago.They are among those that have always had all the goodies and kept up with the Jones’s.
The article today about being under with a home bought for $100K is a perfect example.They took the bait(and the cash) and now the chips will fall………

 
 
Comment by mefulingyu
2008-02-23 09:58:56

“Theresa and Tom Love are in a spot. They’ve been separated six months, as he relocated to Washington for a job while she and their two children remain in El Mirage to sell their three-bedroom home.”

If they are talking about Seattle WA, then they could easily end up more than “seperated” once the wife finds out that an “average” home costs about $425K up here. They better have a HUGE downpayment and one of those $150K per year MS jobs for the husband.

Seattlites don’t realize that you can’t be the “last man standing” in this game because then you will be the ONE place nobody can afford to move to and there will be pressure on businesses to move to cheaper areas to do business.

 
Comment by Blano
2008-02-23 10:44:53

“Tom Love said that would pay off the mortgage and leave $2,000 for his family to rent a U-Haul and head north. ‘The only thing keeping my family away from me is my house,’ he said.”

I smell a rat here. He doesn’t have 2K to get his family to him right now??? The only thing keeping his family from him IMHO is greed, or his taste of freedom.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-02-23 11:07:26

“Cachet has faced similar problems with its homes at Verrado, a DMB master-planned community in Buckeye. ‘We’re tired of being landlords; we’d rather be builders,’ Byrne said.”

Yeah, well, I’d rather be a princess with a gold crown and a magical talking kitty, only this pesky thing called ‘reality’ keeps ruining all my good plans.

 
Comment by Houstonstan
2008-02-23 12:44:52

What a classic name… El Mirage. Is that Spanish for “American Dream”?

 
Comment by cashedin05
2008-02-23 15:57:19

Some folks are starting to get the picture.

“‘If I were an investor, I would be a little worried about my investment if they are only going to put in homes that a Powerball winner can afford,’ he said.”

“I said we were near the bottom, but I have an empty feeling about that,’ Murphy said. ‘I’m giving up. I’m just going to report the numbers. I’m not going to make any more predictions.”

Others, well…

“Last fall they bought a four-year-old, 6,700-square-foot house in Edwards’s Singletree subdivision for just under $2.6 million.” “Edwards is a good place for somebody who doesn’t have an unlimited budget.”

“Brown said the strategy could create a ‘mini-market frenzy,’ driving up prices through bidding even better than other methods of sale.”

“There has been a tendency to focus on foreclosures and distressed sellers, but most sellers are smart enough to know that if they hold on, they’re going to get a much better price in a year or two,’ Edelstein said.”

 
Comment by SubKommander Dred
2008-02-23 17:43:19

“‘It’ll pick up,’ he said. ‘Want to bet? The numbers are bad. You can’t hide the numbers. But the good thing is the cycle is moving. We’re not dead in the water.’”

The man is right. They are not dead in the water. They are road kill in the middle of the highway.

SubKommander Dred

 
Comment by dennis
2008-02-24 01:13:16

Have you ever seen so many RE adds on TV lately. NAR add last night said RE is a great investment that will return 10% per year. Where do they get away saying crap like that?

 
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