A Manifest Of Misery In California
The Press Enterprise reports from California. “After a 10-month investigation, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday accused three Murrieta men of operating a real estate scam that defrauded at least 95 investors of more than $11 million and forced many into foreclosure. ‘I am ecstatic,’ said Anna Richter, a stay-at-home mom from Rialto who says she lost $500,000 in the scheme. ‘I pray the U.S. attorney and the Riverside DA files behind them in all haste with criminal charges.’”
“From October 2004 to June 2006, (the defendants) directed investors to purchase more than $118 million worth of homes, many of them in Murrieta, the complaint says.”
“Debbie Weber, a Riverside resident, said she joined the investment program with high hopes that turned to worry and then depression when she and her husband lost their house and had to move into a mobile home park.”
“We lost everything — our home, our reputation, our credit and some friends. People look at us differently, like, ‘How could you be so stupid?,’ she said.”
The County Sun. “It’s the first foreclosure auction of the day, and Eric Grabli makes it clear he’s just the warm-up act. ‘This won’t take long,’ he said.”
“At 11:15 a.m., he takes his regular spot outside the Pomona Courthouse and rattles off six addresses. All in foreclosure. All auctions that are being canceled or postponed. Wait for 11:30 a.m., he says. That’s the auction of the day, with more than 100 homes on the block. Not that he expects many, if any, will sell today.”
“The hard truth of the foreclosure crisis is that…most of the houses that were once somebody’s dream will be returned to the lender. These are the homes bought in ‘05, ‘06 and ‘07, Grabli says. They have no equity. And no equity means no interest.”
“‘The point is these loans are worth nothing,’ he said.”
“By the time Mike Loyo settles in at his regular table at the far end of the Pomona Courthouse patio last week, at least 20 people are waiting. Some are at least looking to buy. Others are here to make sure their homes are not sold…hoping a few more days will make a difference.”
“At 11:30 sharp, Loyo glances at his watch. ‘Anyone interested in participating, step forward,’ he said. ‘Gather ’round.’”
“He is reading from a manifest of misery that includes high- and low-end neighborhoods alike. Ten houses become 75, then 101, then 132. It takes Loyo 21 minutes to read the list. Now several dozen properties are up for grabs.”
“The first auction goes especially well. A man pays $1,379,153.54 for Malibu land protected against development on behalf of a trust. The rest are houses with not much, if any, equity. But there’s a script to be read, procedures to be followed.”
“‘I’m usually out of here by 2 p.m.’ Loyo said. ‘This looks like it’s going to be a long day.’”
The LA Times. “Never mind that most of Mammoth Lakes’ second-home market is crawling as slowly as a car in a blizzard. The luxurious, soon-to-be-built Ritz-Carlton Residences, Mammoth and the recently opened Westin Monache Mammoth condo-hotel have many in the resort community ready to haul out the finery and celebrate.”
“The buyers are putting down $10,000 refundable deposits on the homes. Construction is scheduled to start in May on the first 60 of 130 units, said Kathy Richardson, sales director for the development.”
“Most of the mountain resort’s buyers and sellers are experiencing a market that has tumbled, as has most of California. In 2007, 278 condos sold, 22% fewer than the 358 in 2006, according to the Mammoth Lakes MLS. Single-family home sales also decreased to 42 in 2007 from 55 in 2006.”
“One major concern of many would-be second-home buyers is the rental market for their properties. Long-term rentals (six months plus) are on the slide, said Bill Wagner, a Century 21 Mammoth Realty agent who specializes in such housing.”
“‘This is the slowest year ever,’ Wagner said. ‘In winter, I never have an opening. Right now, I have two and am getting another the first of next week.’”
“Agent Sue O’Brien recently represented a buyer who purchased an in-town two-bedroom, three-bath town house for $400,000. The original listing price in July was $485,000, which then dropped to $448,000. ‘Motivated sellers are willing to negotiate prices,’ O’Brien said.”
“Scott Meek and his wife visit Mammoth year-round. They waited until last summer, traditionally the slowest time of the market there, and when the prices fell low enough, they bought a condo.”
“The couple had rented over the years and jumped at the chance to buy a two-bedroom Snowcreek Resort home in 1,800 square feet in the $500,000 range, after years of spiraling prices kept them out of the market.”
“‘It’s still expensive in Mammoth,’ Meek said, ‘but prices have definitely dropped.’”
The Marin Independent Journal. “A sense of gloom shrouds city and county administrators in Marin as they draft spending programs for next fiscal year limited by state budget cuts as well as slowing home sales that will curb property tax revenue.”
“Novato has seen home values slipping along with a slowdown in sales. City Manager Daniel Keen said that as property values decline, it is likely that newer owners will ask the county for reassessments to lower their property tax bills.”
“‘The Marin Association of Realtors has told us we are affected disproportionately in Marin,’ Keen said. ‘We have had steeper drops and longer times on the market.’”
The Guardian. “Never in her 20 years in the property market has Heidi Mueller been so much in demand. As one of the leading foreclosure and short sales agents in the San Francisco property market, she is the first person you go to when you can’t afford your mortgage payments and need to sell your home, fast.”
“‘This year is the vintage of 2005,’ she says. ‘Last year everyone that came in had bought in 2004. Just like clockwork: three years go by, then the teaser rates go and,’ she gestures towards the door of her real estate office, ‘in they come.’”
“Drive over the Bay Bridge to East Oakland and beyond and the mirage of well-being dissolves away. Here the streets turn from Victorian grandeur to lines of shack-like bungalows, and a disturbing number are up for sale.”
“‘This guy used to be paying $1,500 a month,’ says Mueller. ‘Then three years later it went up to $6,000.’ The family are now selling up for a fraction of what they paid.”
“Given that 2005 and 2006 marked the peak of the US housing boom, it is this year and next’s vintages which will be the most miserable.”
“It is now pretty well established that these loans tended to go not merely to the poorest families, but, in general, were marketed at America’s black and Hispanic populations. They were the most likely to take on the so-called ‘ninja’ loans (no income, no job, no assets). According to one real estate broker in Oakland, all some credulous households were told was: ‘firma, fecha’ - Spanish for ’signature, date.’”
“One family - the husband is a janitor, the wife a cleaner - bought their two bedroom bungalow in Oakland for $420,000 in 2005. Now their mortgage rate has reset and it is on the market for $119,000. It probably won’t fetch the list price.”
“‘If it had just doubled that wouldn’t have been so bad - at least they could rent an extra room out,’ says Mueller. ‘That’s what most families do to make up the difference. Then when that fails they try to do it with credit cards. Sooner or later they end up coming to see me. They come because they’ve been beaten to death.’”
The Record Searchlight. “The pool at this East Bonnyview Road home has literally popped out of the ground, evidence of a growing blight in Redding: foreclosed properties that have been abandoned. ‘The problem is finding somebody who is legally responsible once the home goes into the foreclosure action,’ Redding Code Enforcement Supervisor Debra Wright said.”
“The home on East Bonnyview has been vacant since October, about the time the lender took it back from the cash-strapped owner. About a quarter of the pool is filled with rain water, which has turned green. Plastic bottles and rags float on top.”
“Wright can’t get anybody to call her back on the East Bonnyview home. AMC Mortgage of Mather is the lender that appears on the deed. ‘Just trying to track down the people who own the home or trying to get a phone number is nearly impossible,’ Wright said.”
“Since January, Wright’s office has posted about 20 compliance orders on foreclosed homes in Redding. That’s the most in Wright’s 20 years - four as supervisor - with the city.”
“Doug Leeper, code enforcement manager in the pricey San Diego suburb of Chula Vista, said communities like Redding need to move fast before the problem gets much worse.”
“‘It only takes one of those homes to start the decline of an entire neighborhood. Don’t underestimate that 20,’ Leeper said of Redding. ‘We once had 20 and now we probably have 2,000, and there’s more to come.’”
“Fed up with lenders seizing homes and then leaving them to rot, Chula Vista in July adopted a program that forces lenders to maintain homes they’ve taken back and to register the abandoned houses with the city.”
“Leeper said in the first few months of the program, the city didn’t get much cooperation from lenders. When the $5,000 and $10,000 fines started showing up on lenders’ desks, however, Leeper’s phone was ringing.”
“‘They asked me, ‘How can I make this go away?’ I’m not going to cut them a break because they’re ignoring the property,’ Leeper said. ‘Last week I had one gentleman come in and register 38 properties.’”
“Dealing with foreclosed properties that have been abandoned has become such a problem that Leeper teaches classes across the state. ‘It’s a catastrophic tsunami that will flood every community in California that has sold a home in the last five years,’ Leeper said of the growing problem.”
‘I am ecstatic,’ said Anna Richter, a stay-at-home mom from Rialto who says she lost $500,000 in the scheme. ‘I pray the U.S. attorney and the Riverside DA files behind them in all haste with criminal charges.’”
hmmpf. On the contrary had Anna *made* $500,000 she’d be praying “Lord, please infest those lousy DA’s with the fleas of a thousand camels”
How come NONE of these Morons ever seem to have a few hundred to pay a lawyer before turning over their hard earned money to a stranger.
NONE of them.
Yea, like SHE lost 500k, what she means is the bank lost 500k because of her stupidity.
I couldn’t agree more. stay at home mom has 500K. give a break. the only idiot here is the reporter who is dumb enough to report this obvious lie.
Speaking of turning over your hard earned money to a complete stranger…’friend’ has done all her banking online.
“BofA” sent her email for …filled in all blanks-ss#, BD,address, you name it she filled it in.
Guess what… rim shot, it would seem that it was a PHISHING email and now she has lost over 45k.
Sorry kind of OT but still relevant to the entire fiscal crisis.
My my… How entirely entertaining things have been as of late. Lots of new homes went up for sale in my neighborhood this week, with many more I assume to come. They can sit right next to all the other houses that haven’t sold.
How are you doing? Long time no see! This must be the spring rush to be the first to sell! You will see a flood of houses on the market in the next few weeks.
If you are not going to leave CA, you will have to rent and wait a few more years for prices to get near to the bottom so you can buy cheaper than rent.
yeah… I’ve been busy. I’ll also admit that these days I’m not exactly worried or concerned about the CA housing market. It’s a bloodbath for sellers here and a few cities are about to declare bankruptcy. Most now have severe budget shortfalls. Wells Fargo and other banks now require huge down payments. The inventory- as mentioned- is growing on top of the already large supply. On top of that, nothing is selling. Add to it that the idea of home buying is now negative in the minds of the public and I see no reason to expect anything short of drastic depreciation over the next 2-5 years minimum. So I rest easy these days among the mayhem. Might as well enjoy the nice weather while I’m at it.
That said, I do know a few people who ‘think’ that with all these foreclosures, there must be deals and are thus looking as we speak. But I know their financial situation, and none will qualify anyway. Here’s the thing. Californians are stupid when it comes to financial rationale. Given any chance, they’ll bury themselves in debt to get at a house. The reason they won’t is because the banks took away their means. That alone is reason to believe that at least for home sellers, prices are going to be coming down hard.
So yup… I’m rather content these days. Perhaps that’s why I’m not on here as much. Because the depreciation machine is now well-greased.
Here we go again. Another ride on the inventory tsunami. Most YOY inventory numbers throughout West are up 25% indicating no relief. And they thought last year was bad?
Palmdale 93552 inventory is up 30% YOY. Median wishing price is down 29% from peak.
In which quadrant of the supply/demand plot does that put us?
Just drove by yet another development underway in Carlsbad, formerly a small family ranch with an older home on the crest of the hill. All demolished and the builder is now in the process of grading building pads and assembling those oh so attractive concrete block walls abutting what will be a major thoroughfare along College Ave. They found dinosaur bones a couple months ago while they were grading, they should have taken that as a bad omen. Meanwhile Wal Mart bought the corner property nearby and is fighting upscale neighbors who think, yes, that having such a downscale store will “bring down property values.” Hah. Meanwhile, the Bressie Ranch mcmansion-ville, 600k up, in Carlsbad is raining foreclosures.
My company is off college, I’ll keep everyone updated on the sales, or lack there of as I drive by every day. I also drive by Bressi on my way home. Did I mention my rental is 1 week away from foreclosure, up on Alga in Costa Alta, several bank owned condos in this complex. It makes no sense to buy, rent is $1300, purchase is close to $275k.
From the Press Enterprise article:
The scheme targeted military personnel at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Ariz., as well as the Southern California Filipino community and church members.
Church members…I had a hunch this was the case.
People, when will you get it through your heads…church and “investment programs” don’t mix. Unless it’s Friday night Bingo of course.
People look at us differently, like, ‘How could you be so stupid?,’ she said.”
Debbie they think you’re stupid because you took financial advice from some nitwit at your church.
Too many church goers rely on faith when making investment decisions. If you say praise Jesus in the right way they’ll throw their money at you, and when you get caught if you say praise Jesus again your forgiven. Binny Hinn, GW Bush and many others take full advantage of this. It’s been going on since the beginning of time. Blind the sheep with religion, then rape the sheep.
“Too many church goers rely on faith when making investment decisions.”
That’s why Utahrr is the scam capital of the nation, and why it’s going to fall down hard and go boom!
Reminds me of all the blind Americans being led by preachers of going green. Al Gore and crew are every bit the con artists that you name here.
Uhhh…. no, not like that.
You’re right. It’s worse.
It even has a name — affinity scam.
Nice!
I didn’t know there was a “standard” phrase for this. Also works within “communities”, “ethnic groups”, etc.
“‘It only takes one of those homes to start the decline of an entire neighborhood. Don’t underestimate that 20,’ Leeper said of Redding. ‘We once had 20 and now we probably have 2,000, and there’s more to come.’”
There not kidding. These new subdivisions are looking pretty shabby these days. Outside light fixtures missing, oil stains in the driveways, lawns all but dead. These new suddiv’s are going to fast-foward to the run-down status that most older neighborhoods took a couple decades to achieve.
Used to be the oil stains were from an auto. Now it’s from the Tijuana taco-stand that adorns the driveway every weekend.
LOL and don’t forget Hamid’s Ice Cream van(s)
BTW is it me or is the tune played on those truck the “Do Your B@lls Hang Low” song?
What is with those vans? I think Hamid works our neighborhood as well (and almost stops at my house until he knows for sure the kids hear it). I’m the sucker who buys those $3.00 ice creams (at least they are all the nice high-quality ones) because of the sense of nostalgia I get each time.
The safe for kids version is “Do your ears hang low”
When I was a kid, my dad used to charge us kids 25 cents anytime we said the ice cream truck was here. LOL.
Turns out the ice cream in our freezer tasted just as good, and was a whole lot cheaper.
“It is now pretty well established that these loans tended to go not merely to the poorest families, but, in general, were marketed at America’s black and Hispanic populations.”
Since around 3 out of 4 people living in Oakland are black or hispanic, I wouldn’t be suprised if 3 out of 4 of Oakland’s FBs are black or hispanic.
Sort of reminds me of Memphis in my home state. That city’s composition is about the same as Oakland. Obviously, a lot of people there were also targeted because the foreclosure rate there is massive, making up for over 80% of the foreclosures in the entire state.
“We lost everything — our home, our reputation, our credit and some friends. People look at us differently, like, ‘How could you be so stupid?,’ she said.”
You signed the papers, right? How about greedy AND stupid?
Should have gotten a lawyer to read those papers.
You think that would of stopped them? Ha!
What, and lose $200 on top of the $500,000? Are you crazy?
And here’s where our intrepid reporter could have asked what’s on all our minds: “Well, how COULD you be so stupid?”
I went on to read the whole article. Apparently, these people put money in a fund that not only paid over-market value for the house (which of course was a kickback to the fraudsters), and that the difference in the amount (higher selling vs. asking price) was going to somehow magically pay their mortgage. If you believe that, I’ve got a perpetual motion machine to sell you. We’ll solve the energy crisis in a hurry.
I think that question deserves to be asked.
Tell me now, how could you be so stupid??
Seems like a logical question. Expected. Anticipated.
No mystery here.
Two words: Eminent domain
At what point do communities quit messing around with mystery mortgage holders and say… ‘you’ve got 60 days to clean up the property and either get a tenant or a new owner in. Fail to do that, and we’re not fining you; we’re taking the property.’
Then auction these seized properties — no minimum bid — and use the money to partially offset the budget gaps that every community seems to be facing.
Eminent domain. Seriously. Let’s see if the threat of that gets some banks to quit on the wishing prices and instead start pricing homes to move.
Brilliant, malibu. I’m all for it. We need to see that start happening around these parts (Florida) also.
You have to pay market price for eminent domain. So your idea is not feasible.
Yeah…. So they do have to just pile on the fines, then when the fines are stacked really high, take the property and auction it off and subtract the fines from the proceedes.
Would fines by the city be primary or secondary to the mortgage?
Market price? No problem then.
What’s the current process for claiming an abandoned home? Is there one?
http://tampa.craigslist.org/apa/594454820.html one way of finding new owners
Flagged for removal.
It probably has some connection to ‘escheat’ where, when some property has no known owner, it reverts to the State.
I second this. If no one steps up to prove they “own” the abandoned house, then the city gets it and auctions it with no reserve, no minimum. This will very quickly set true market value.
I have been wait for that to happen as well. As the fines build up, lenders will begin to abandon them and that is when the munis move in.
How come nobody’s stepped in as an agency to rent out some of these foreclosures at a discount? Seems to me that the banks are leaving a lot of money sitting on the table. I would think a competently-run property management company could give the banks a little cash-flow, screen for decent tenants, make a nice fee and still rent at a discount with the idea that the place could be sold in 30 day’s notice. Am I just naive (I’m a graphic designer, not a banker or RE person), or is there some disincentive or impediment to doing this? The only thing I’ve heard is that the banks don’t want to F with rentals, but if it were handled through a third party, I don’t see why this would be a problem.
Pssssst…
It’s toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo big -
sssssh.
Er…Mali…
Eminent domain - let’s do it!!!
Maybe there is a New Deal going on - (j/k)!
Hey hey, good buy!
A man pays $1,379,153.54 for Malibu land protected against development on behalf of a trust.
Must be the same guy that bought Mark McGwire’s #70
I think this is a poorly worded attempt to say that the property was bought by a trust at a price of $1,379,153.54. The man who bought it was an agent of the trust. Why the trust wanted the property is unknown, but this was not a random purchase. Probably had something to do with land preservation.
‘firma, fecha’
I can think of lots of words that begin with F
Fiscally responsible, foolish, F’d
Sir Hoz…
Fidelity - now that’s an “F” word!
Leigh
“The hard truth of the foreclosure crisis is that…most of the houses that were once somebody’s dream will be returned to the lender. These are the homes bought in ‘05, ‘06 and ‘07, Grabli says. They have no equity. And no equity means no interest.”
I see the 04 wave rolled through and the newer waves are rolling in. I wonder when prices dip below 03 levels (largest increase in LA area); what will it look like. The bubble really took off in 2002. That is probably where we are headed.
Should start to see carnage soon.
That’s what I find peculiar about all this .. carnage is happening right now but it’s almost invisible. There are no fireworks or earthquakes.. just a slow, steady advance, like a glacier. When the glacier finally reaches your front door, you disassemble the house and reassemble it 30 yards further down the hill.
I think this is why Wall Street investors have no idea what to invest in. Things are moving so slowly that there’s all the time in the world to make adjustments. Only occasional bouts of irrational panic are moving the daily market. Next month’s and next year’s probable events are already priced in.. and It’ll be like this for a couple more years… painfully slow carnage.
It’s intuitive to think this is a first-in, first-out (the 03s will crash, then the 04s, 05s, etc.) sequence, but I believe it was discussed on here a couple of months ago that it will be more of a last-in, first-out sequence, which would make sense since those who bought later go underwater faster. Either way, there’s a whole lot of FB’s out there.
so LIFO and not FIFO?
My personal favorite is GIGO - garbage in garbage out
–
““It is now pretty well established that these loans tended to go not merely to the poorest families, but, in general, were marketed at America’s black and Hispanic populations. They were the most likely to take on the so-called ‘ninja’ loans (no income, no job, no assets). According to one real estate broker in Oakland, all some credulous households were told was: ‘firma, fecha’ - Spanish for ’signature, date.’”
To the list we can add single women. They bought disproportionately during 2005-06, especially, condos. Years ago, people used to complain that bankers were discriminating against minorities. What a brutal reversal of tactics and results.
Jas
yeah, remember all the fluff articles about “savvy single women” buying houses and condos? Maybe if some of them had a guy around, he might have prevented it.
Oh no, Suzanne’s research would have blown away the troglodyte’s feeble objections. And who are we males to stand in the way of these “saavy single women” getting their girl power on?
Lordy, lordy, lordy.
Who remembers that NYTimes article about these “empowered women” buying $1M condos in the most dubious neighborhoods in Brooklyn?
Girl, get your groove on!
I do.
I do too.
–
Come on, Chick, women are better investors is the stock market, no? Don’t they want a longer-term relationship and all that? Anyway, that is what I heard few years ago on a radio program on investments. I am sure that you know more about the subject.
Jas
I guess that makes me a market whore. I have to be paid and only do one night stands
C’mon, you trade the same stock twice. Maybe not in the same way each time though! LOL
Jas baby, you back for good? You still love us, right?
“Maybe if some of them had a guy around, he might have prevented it.”
If they had a guy around, they probably would have doubled down. Two lame brained people with two incomes, twice as much debt.
And this one here gets the prize for describing New York perfectly.
You da’ man (or da’ wo-man)!!!
“Two lame brained people with two incomes, twice as much debt.”
I know several DINKS who are in this exact situation!
One of the serious problems with ignorance and thinking with your emotions instead of your head is that it’s not limited to either gender. Men and women are equally afflicted.
I’ve wonder how many single women used a house/condo as a substitute “security” for a stable, close relationship(s) during the run up.
One of the strongest “concern” reactions when we sold with no intent of buying soon came from a single career women who helpful suggested “affordable” houses in an end of town that I’ve never liked very much. Very nice lady but I get the impression she hangs out with her cat and her parents alot.
I’m gonna guess that it’s not so much about race or gender as about lack of earning power. The last wave of buyers included a high fraction of low earners whose fantasy path to affluence was property appreciation…proverbial shoeshine boy…
I assume you’ve seen this Harper’s article from May 2006: The New Road to Serfdom.
So you’re bang on target!
I did read that when it came out, shortly after I found HBB. Enjoyed re-reading it this evening, thanks.
“Doug Leeper, code enforcement manager in the pricey San Diego suburb of Chula Vista, said communities like Redding need to move fast before the problem gets much worse.”
“‘It only takes one of those homes to start the decline of an entire neighborhood. ”
And it only takes one city to start the decline for the county, and one county to start the decline for the state. And in almost all cities, counties, and states, the meltdown has been growing like a cancer. We’re past the point where this is all about the housing bubble bursting, and housing preices dropping. We are now at the point of individuals, businesses, and municipalities all going broke at the same time.
Layoffs, hiring freezes; disappearing customers, markets, businesses, and tax collections; with a population largely living paycheck to paycheck.
Don’t rule out “shocking, surprising, and unprecedented” levels of civil disobedience, commotion, and crime, coming soon to a community near you. Is it a coincidence we see an “active denial system” human microwave sci-fi ray-gun being shown on the front page of Yahoo today?
It’s only Monday.
“the pricey San Diego suburb of Chula Vista”
It wasn’t too long ago that Chula Vista was the laughingstock of SD, just a little nicer than National City or San Ysidro.
Chulajuana!
“Nasty City” we called it…
C’mon Chula Vista “pricey”. That’s not “pricey” in the great neighborhood kid of way is it…
No, just pricey in the bubblicious kinda way.
–
‘They come because they’ve been beaten to death.’
I don’t think that they were “beaten to death.” A more accurate description would be that their home was piped with financial poison gas and their home being part of the Debt Concentration Camps all, across America.
HBBers never doubted this outcome.
Jas
Hello Jas!
Outstanding visual(s) - Jas is Jas!
Best,
Leigh
“One family - the husband is a janitor, the wife a cleaner - bought their two bedroom bungalow in Oakland for $420,000 in 2005. Now their mortgage rate has reset and it is on the market for $119,000. It probably won’t fetch the list price.”
Are we heading for Detroit-type valueless homes in some parts of CA with the crazy amount of overbuilding?
I respect janitors and cleaners, but how much do they make, even in the Bay Area? Enough to buy almost a half-million-dollar home?
No
Sheeit, when I was with Apple in a previous life $420K was WAY out of my league. $330K was my limit.
I know a Tile setter who bought a Million dollar home right before the peak. His Mortgage payment was $5K a month and reset to $9K a month. I honestly don’t know how he makes the payments with work drying up.
Doesn’t MIT have a degree program for Ceramic Engineering.
Don’t kid yourself. I took an intro course in this thinking it would be easy, it is seriously difficult. My room mate said it was a great course (he was ChE and loved it), I should have known better.
Please give us an update when he goes belly up.
$9K/month
You could rent a freakin’ Classic Six out here in Manhattan with a maid and a butler for that money!
What are these people smokin’? I want some too!!!
FP, SS -
As you know, a classic six doesn’t have living space for a butler
(posted from my classic seven with full-nanny)
No,the proverbial fruit-picker will always be there to pick up the slack with his stellar income and credit.
“Are we heading for Detroit-type valueless homes in some parts of CA with the crazy amount of overbuilding?”
Not a bad guess, I’d say. Wouldn’t surprise me if some of the tract houses in the inland valleys were either razed or perhaps destroyed on film in action movies (as I believe happened in the early 90’s) . May I suggest that a new Schwarzenegger movie might provide an appropriate dramatic vehicle for such a setting?
I am heere to ahnounce my new prograhm to save Caleefornia homes by destroying zem een my new moovie.
The old Brach factory administrative building was blown up for a Batman movie last summer on the west side of Chicago. The Lake Street el carries me past the site every workday.
….and let me tell you zumzing , you aazzhooles…
AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarnnnnnneeeeeeeeeee!
HAR!
Leigh
That was one of the funniest threads I’ve ever read on this blog. Well done!
I will be back !
Lethal Weapon 3 - They burned down an entire new home development in the Antelope Valley in the final scene. Most of the houses were just framing after the developer had gone bust. In hindsight it was a great time to buy.
When something equally as dramatic happens in the next 2-3 years, then it might be considered the bottom…but there are definitely some bank failures coming well before then.
that’s stunning
When wolves hunt, they hunt in packs. Some circle the prey, driving them to the strongest, fastest killers lying in wait. And while any animal will do, the easy feed is always the young, the old, and the lame.
Was the housing bubble any different?
Listening to KGO radio as we speak about a guy in oakland who go in a fender bender. When he got out of his car he was beaten, and now in critical…this at 6pm. There are vampires there that will strip your bones clean at sundown,…I’ve seen em’
Dang!
This is why I love my hubby so!
Put a 9mm and a 40mm in my purty finger on Saturday - with 3 clips each!!!
My powder is DRY!
Ya just can’t make this stuff up!
Leigh
“One thing about living in Santa Carla I never could
stomach. All the damn vampires.”
Is it any accident that Goldman Sachs sounds like Goldie Locks? I think that within this correlation lies the root of this whole conspiracy to defraud american speculators.
Yep, they fleeced em in the internet bubble too.
I wonder how many Mammoth buyers realize that in 1980, the volcano underfoot woke up just long enough to send prices down 50%.
The movie “Dante’s Peak” is based on what could easily happen at Mammoth. Prices to $0 in one eruption or less.
I recall that the “Scenic Route” connecting Mammoth to US-395 north of town is also known as the “volcano escape route.”
Speaking of resort towns, I was skiing this weekend and during various chairlift rides (6-person or gondolas are often the best) I overheard the squeamish and whiny conversations of owners of California real estate.
Each and every owner had an “interesting” situation. One was fixing up the kitchen and living rooms in San Ramon and hoping to “recoup the expense when the market turns around”, all the while being consoled by his ski buddy. “Well, who could have known? Maybe it will come back in two to five years…”
A young “entitlement”-type couple who bought in the City was complaining that friends had just bought a place 1/3 larger, “without fixer-upper problems”, for significantly less than they had done so in 2006.
And a former Tahoe resident had bought and moved out of state without first selling locally, and was now dealing with a rogue renter who at first missed payments and then ran seriously afoul of the law.
Yes, and this is classic speculation as well. Even if they went every dang weekend, it would be much cheaper to rent a place versus carry costs on a hlaf million dollar condo. Goes to show, there is still speculation occurring.
… but each new specu-idiot set’s a new comp, and that’s a good thing.
Thanks Ben.
I was in Mammoth Lakes a couple of weeks ago and was wondering about the bubble up there.
I look forward to picking up a 2nd home up there when they cashflow.
I had a buddy buy in 2002 and sell in 2005 in Mammoth for a killing. Even at a 2002 cost basis, there were 4 summer months with nearly no rental income whatsoever.
He was in the condos closest to Warming Hut 2 or Canyon Lodge whatever the hell they call it now.
nothing beats the coastal properties in Pacifica CA that were washed into the sea during a rough winter a few years back. even the land they were sitting on vanished. you could see the steady erosion from historical arial photos. tough, but i don’t suppose i would have thought about that if i had been a buyer.
there’s two properties listed on either side of Sunny Cove in Santa Cruz right now. The one on the north point has a good 20-30m of sandstone left in front of it, the other, not so much . . .
I lived 2km inland from there and the ocean at night was loud enough TYVM. Living right above the breakers would make me seasick!
Scott Meek and his wife just bought in Mammoth. Here they come…..the usual the knife catchers in a falling market be it stocks or property. We are probably getting near (fake) support which will suck in the Greater Fools with the help of the NAR propoganda machine. Once support breaks (as it will) the knife catchers will start crying and bitchin’ how: “We didn’t understand.”
Once again, anyone thinking of buying should put a note on their bed headboard and repeat it every night: “We are not at the bottom. 100x the average rent is where prices will end up give or take a few thousand.”
I figure we are about 1/3 of the way into this downturn. 2011 MIGHT see the bottom but if gasoline keeps going up and food prices keep going up and medical costs keep going up AND we have a bad recession - look past 2011. It could stretch out to 2014/15. In other words, the bottom is between 3 to 8 years away AND REMEMBER - once the bottom is in there will be no rush to buy. Anyone owning property can look forward to perhaps a 2% increase in valuations per year AFTER the bottom is in.
Meanwhile, there will be a bubble in something else where and, as always, the suckers will jump in feet first and get parted from their money by the likes of Hank Paulson and the other Godfathers of Wall Street.
BTW, it’s O.T but I went to my doctor today and he is no longer accepting ANY medical insurance except Medicare. It seems (gee! what a surprise) the big medical insurance companies are screwing the doctors AND the patients and a LOT of doctors are pulling out of insurance companies and only accepting Medicare. On the other hand, my wife (who does some CPA work for a medical biller) said the government (actually the bought and paid for politicians) are angling to turn Medicare over to corporate America. Grab the vaseline and bend over if Corporate America gets to handle a National Health Service.
“And the Meek shall inherit the Earth.”
Or Pay 500k for a place in Mammoth.
Maybe their children will inherit their knife collection instead, because the parents seem to be quite the knife catchers.
My doctor (GP) gives me discounts for payment by cash or credit card, usually about 20% off. I carry high-deductible medical insurance, so it’s all the same to me.
Do you mean Medicare or Medicaid? Medicaid covers the broke, Medicare covers the old. If you’re old and broke you get both. Is he limiting himself to just Medicare?
If you think about it, corporate america already has socialized medicine through insurance tied to employment. The result is what we have today: expensive, relatively un-responsive health care. If it’s unresponsive, I would tend to think we could at least get it cheaper if the government were involved. *grin*
The best idea is to let health insurance be just that and give people a direct interest in how much all these tests and procedures cost. I’m sure your doctor will now be spending more time with you actually discussing whether even “routine” tests are worth the cost.
Having recently obtained a very broken leg in a segway accident (yea, don’t ask, no I wasn’t doing anything silly or stupid) I got my first use of my medical insurance. I have to say, while I’m happy to be able to walk again (although I might get a followup surgery or two) — I wasn’t very impressed with my stay at the hospital. I mean, for the $750 a night for the room… yow. The care was mediocre, and still to this day the few times I’ve seen the doctor it’s been like 30 seconds at best (every month or so). I’m not very impressed (although I understand my doctor is very good). I can see how the insurance isolates people from the true costs, I’m probably pushing $35,000+ … My coworker had some chest pains and is older, so it was heart attack tests. He said his bill was $18,000 for 1 night. Of course, insurance “takes care of it.”
Just heard good radio show with MD who is fed up with ins corps that tell them, the MDs who to treat, IF they can treat, What they can prescribe etc. So, I can see why MDs extract themselves from seeing patients with ins.
It seems (gee! what a surprise) the big medical insurance companies are screwing the doctors AND the patients and a LOT of doctors are pulling out of insurance companies and only accepting Medicare. \
True. My kids’ pediatrician has been off Blue Cross for at least 2 years. My husband, a doctor, is sick of insurance companies too, but he does not have the heart to start rejecting patients due to insurance. He even sees Medical, and if you saw what they pay for a consult you’d realize what a sweet guy my hubby is. It’s getting worse and worse. I don’t even want to think what inflation will do to us.
My aplogies in advance Mike
“…Once again, anyone thinking of buying should put a note on their bed headboard and repeat it every night: “We are not at the bottom…”
And repeat after me (Lord I’m naughty), I will be on top!!!!
We’ll speak of medical in the near future.
Tell the truth! Ya just can’t make this stuff up…
Leigh
Same with many MDs in the Coachella valley. Many have become CASH ONLY MDs. And take no new patients at all.
So, I prefer Astroglide.
With these fiscal times, TXchick, can you tell me if Astroglide’s maker is good investment vehicle with future earnings?
The reason that health insurance was related to employment was that during World War II, employers were prohibited from offering wage increases above a certain amount; therefore, to compete for workers, they started to offer corporate health insurance.
My mother last year got dizzy while standing on the street. They took her to the hospital emergency room, where they gave her two EKGs to tell if she was having a heart attack, even though the first EKG was normal. She was outraged, though I tried to tell her that they were worried that we’d sue if she left, and she was in fact having a heart attack. There are a lot of tests that are done to avoid being sued.
I’d sure like to know where a stay at home mom comes up with $500K to lose, I’m doing something wrong in life.
Maybe she should’ve spent more time focusing on the kids and the housework, instead of fancying herself a saavy Trumpette.
“She” lost 550K??? Where’s the hubby??? Maybe he didn’t know.
“She” lost 550K??? Where’s the hubby??? Maybe he didn’t know.
He ran off with Suzanne.
The money came from the equity in her home and from credit cards.
“Doug Leeper, code enforcement manager in the pricey San Diego suburb of Chula Vista”
Chula Vista, just 5 minutes north of Tiajuana. “Pricey” is not the word.
“The investors refinanced their own homes and their investment homes and drew money from credit card accounts to give to Pacific Wealth for further investments, the suit says.”
Wow, just Wow. The greed and stupidity of these people is just amazing, you BORROWED on your House and Credit Cards for a Ponzi scheme ? Sorry, no sympathy from me.
““The first auction goes especially well. A man pays $1,379,153.54 for Malibu land protected against development on behalf of a trust.”
And what is he going to do with a few acres of dirt and trees that can’t be used for anything?
Probably thinks he can break the trust covenants and develop it. For further proof of the love of Kool-Aid, see Mo Money above.
Bribe the Coastal Commission? Do they stay bought?
or just possibly, the buyer was protecting owned adjacent property.
If I was worried about possible future development, I would buy adjacent property to guarantee protection of my property.
Was it Coastal Commission? Was it on the coast? However it is, your guess is probably the better one. He must really like an unspoiled view, or his privacy.
If it’s in Malibu, it’s covered by the Coastal Commission. Malibu is about 27 miles long and 3 to 5 miles deep, all along the coast.
There is conservancy trust that is buying up land in the mountains behind Malibu that has been devalued by building restrictions, but not sure if this was that trust.
Buildable land in Malibu is pretty valuable, but it’s hard to say what unbuildable land is worth. I guess it was worth that much to the trust that bought it…
He doesn’t actually have to do anything with it. What will it sell for 10 years from now?
Every 5 years there is a budget crisis in California. From an outsiders perspective this looks ugly.
The article talks about making plans reducing staff equally, that is BS. They filed an MA laying off 50 teachers and it is confirmed in the Marin Independent Journal. Notices to be sent March 15th. There are 8000 students in the Novato district.
The article on Novato in the MIJ
The Davis school district is 3 or 4 million in the whole and student numbers are going down. I’m not sure how far the city itsself is in the tank. Apparently they’d been spending their reserves for quite a few years.
School programs are the sacred cows in this town where NIMBYism runs rampant. Many of the residents are just now realizing what zero-growth has bought them as young families move out to more affordable cities. The discussions around town are not pretty as everyone wants all the programs cut but theirs.
I think Peter Cook and John Cleese are about about due for their cameos because the comedy around here is that good >; )
I wish it was school programs. It seems to an outsider that they are getting rid of teachers (a valuable resource) and keeping administrators (drift wood). From a trading view, selling your winners and keeping your losers. Not wise.
That cuts both ways. In my example above my aquaintance with a graduate degree is being asked to step down into the classroom. The district would be getting a more qualified teacher for less money in this case.
The San Diego Unified School District is losing 80 mil. It’s rumoured they need to lay off 1500 employees.
An aquaintance who is a school counselor in the OC told me she was given the choice last week to be laid of or good back to a classroom. She tendered her resignation and is now looking for a new job.
This is one paradigm I didn’t think would fall. Government employees, even professionals, with no job security?
We should all be busting our butts getting a year’s supply of everything, this one is going to be a doozy.
RE: “The hard truth of the foreclosure crisis is that…most of the houses that were once somebody’s dream will be returned to the lender. These are the homes bought in ‘05, ‘06 and ‘07, Grabli says. They have no equity. And no equity means no interest.”
Gotta luv those Di-Tech funding loans with the 125% L/V ratio’s tied to a 20% inflated appraisal done by some high school drop-out for $50.
“Leeper said in the first few months of the program, the city didn’t get much cooperation from lenders. When the $5,000 and $10,000 fines started showing up on lenders’ desks, however, Leeper’s phone was ringing.”
This is one of the healthiest and most positive developments to date. Lenders are still largely in denial about the magnitude of their bad loans and the crash of the housing market. If communities start fighting back by imposing get-tough ordinances against flippers and lenders who are letting their vacant or unoccupied properties languish - like huge fines and 90-day forfeitures for non-compliance and failure to maintain the property - you better believe the lenders and flippers are going to be scrambling to offload those properties post-haste. The lenders will also have even more reasons to make damned sure that they give borrowers strong disincentives to walk away, i.e. got 20% down?
It’s long since time that communities recognize that houses aren’t “commodities” - they are shelter for singles, couples, and families. Speculators and lenders who sit on vacant houses should be slapped with “non-use” rates of taxation that are at least 50% higher than the property taxes paid by owner-occupants. Believe me, that would solve our “affordable housing” crisis in very short order.
One would think in this era of declining revenues for counties that they would be all over this just for the revenue stream and new compliance jobs?
“Meanwhile, buyers in Lake County have a window, and Fischer, ever the consummate salesman, knows how to take advantage of it. ‘If a buyer says, ‘I think I’ll wait and see if it bottoms out,’ I say, ‘How much more do you think it’s going to bottom out? Ten percent? OK, let’s make an offer for 10 percent less than the asking price.’”
“‘If they think it’s going down 50 percent, they’re crazy,’ he said.”
And this explains why theres still knife catchers. Others will see that house prices show no signs of bottoming out anytime soon and the smart ones will hold onto their hard earned savings and wait a few years.
As has been said, we need the knife catchers. They buy for 5-10% under current market comp, and set a new market comp for the next transaction to be 5-10% under.
It took lots of transactions to get prices to go up. It will take lots of transactions to make them go down.
Won’t prices drop faster if no one bought? There will be sellers who *must* sell for pratically any price, such as their late grandfather died, they inherited the house and have absolutely no need for it.
Problem is too many are convinced “buy now or miss the dip.” Wife and I visit open houses on weekends for kicks and giggle and every single UHS all tell us “interest rates are low, it’s a wonderful time to buy” They must be getting some nibbles to still be using that line.
They think you are nibbling.
You must not be laughing hard enough at the asking price.
As well as those that can sell for any price. Boomers with tons of equity, the ‘inherited’ house, and the banks.
Blessed are the knife catchers for they will inheret a mortgage far larger then I.
I’m seeing 25-35% lowballs on REOs being accepted now in AV.
America, what happened to ya. Was a time that a responsible citizenry took their obligations to heart, your word was your bond and all that crap, but of late I have the impression that your country just don’t give a shit. Well, from my perspective the only sane thing the world, outside of the U.S., can do is to turn our backs and take care of our own business. As you slide into the former empire status that Britain fell into after the last big one, W.W 2. the rest of the western world will need a new champion (God help us China) but this is of your doing. You cranked up the presses, you sold bogus financial products, you profited by your fellow mans misery. My hope is that central banks in the developed world raise rates to choke off inflation and save their own economies.I hope that you have enough sense to choose a responsible government that takes it’s people’s plight to heart
And don’t forget we allowed massive social welfare programs - i.e., pyramid schemes - that will bankrupt us like nothing else!
Shit, in 10 years we’ll be as poor as Europe.
That seems pretty childish. Social Security and other such programs have made a huge change in society. When they first came about it was common for the elderly to die alone, pennyless, and without any kind of support. In the past relatively small changes have kept these programs going, and the same is true today. You are anxious to turn your back on more than seventy years of successful social support networks, but even now there is still no good reason for that.
Yeah, I really do want to go back to the time of Charles Dickens. Widows and orphans begging on every corner. Oh, right, people live in gated communities these days thinking it will shield their eyes from the real world. But it only makes them targets.
Yeah, that Euro, you sure wouldn’t want to hold any of those compared to greenbacks.
Q: What did Henry Paulson say to Ben Bernanke?
A: Let’s put our two heads together and make an ass out of ourselves.
Right on rosie . Where did the America that I grew up in go to ? I never had to worry about people from across the globe taking a job I might need in my youth . Bring back jobs for Americans .
This globalism won’t work as long as wage standards are different in different parts of the world . To blackmail Americans into competition with the rest of the world that doesn’t even honor our min. wage standards is a joke . You can’t expect Americans to compete with foreign places that do not have the same laws and rules of the game .
The Corporations have been selling the Americans so much BS in the interest of short term profits that it’s frightening . I admit that Unions went to far ,but now the balance scales went in the opposite direction in favor of the Corporations (employer ). Americans were side -tracked by jobs that were created by the housing boom and they didn’t notice how “Global” America became ,except for when they called up and needed service and couldn’t understand what the foreigner was saying .
I have nothing against foreigners ,but the American middle class needs jobs they can depend on and American Corporations are the parties that should be giving these people those jobs .
And don’t tell me I (the young people ) have to compete with the rest of the world ,because your just a shill for the Corporations if you say that . And please don’t tell me that Corporations will not be profitable if they don’t hire slave labor ,because it’s just a matter of changing all the laws that made this globalism gain a foothold to begin with .
I just want to know who these corporations and RE people think are going to buy their crap when Americans can no longer pay the inflated prices at low to no wages? They want to keep prices inflated, yet not pay us any money. How do their accounting departments and operational managers think this will work out?
That’s just it Hailey . For a short term gain ,Corporations are selling out American workers to the point that they won’t have enough wages to buy their junk . Sure it was OK when everyone had a ton of money because of the fake equity from the housing boom ,but what happens when Americans don’t have jobs to buy or consume what the Corporations have to offer ?
What is going to happen to the standard of living in America when foreign countries produce everything at slave labor and Americans don’t have higher standard of living jobs to buy buy buy .
Trading between Countries is alright ,but to give up our manufacturing base and our jobs to other low wage slaves is just wrong …dead wrong . So what would we have in America if we had a lot of rich Corporations that sell all around the world on the backs of cheap labor ? We will lose the middle class ,and that class was the very thing that made America unique and strong . Everybody having the opportunity to get ahead . Sure the Corporations might of made a little less under pass systems ,but hell , it was what America was all about .Look at what happened because we had such a huge global money supply . There is something to be said for a balanced economy based on local conditions . This isn’t capitalism that have been going on ,but rather the rein of the Corporations with a lot of BS spin about expanding global markets being good for America . Sure , when foreign countries pick themselves up ,it’s always a good thing ,but it’s at the expense of jobs for Americans .
The practical realty of life is that if people can’t get good paying jobs that support ,at least a middle class lifestyle ,America is going to go down the tubes fast (as it already is ).
nice sentiments but difficult to make work in reality unfortunately.
depending on the industry you’re in, and the barriers to competitive entry, it’s pretty difficult to go much above “market rates” for labor.
if you try to start and run a company in bubble-land california, the wage demands, taxes, and health-care expenses for employees alone made if VERY challenging when i was there in the first half of this decade.
doubt much has changed yet on that front.
while maximizing profits (or just staying alive) is important, it’s also critical to realize that you can often deliver more value to your customer for less money when you get things at the most “efficient” price point.
Does it really matter to a *customer* if their s/w was created by an indian in india or an indian in silicon valley?
Bottom line: we live in f’ed up times. you were all smart enough to find this website. so, i’m guessing most all of you are smart enough to make sure you and your loved ones are taken care of.
We should concentrate on that because i think a lot more people have to get a lot more uncomfortable before a massive change in the way things are will take place.
fuBarrio
Just because we read this blog doesn’t mean we’re all set up nice and comfy, with six figure financial/tech jobs and golden parachutes, family trusts. Believe it or not, some of us are actually “working” class.
Dead on post. The “conventional wisdom” says we’re only shipping call center jobs overseas, etc, and it’s no big deal.
No, we’re shipping our top jobs overseas.
And guess what else, we’re shipping all your private data to these 3rd world countries. Privacy laws? Ha! Your Social Security Number, and all your sensitive data is all out there in the Wild West.
The new black: anonymity.
Leigh
Hey, paramilitary mercenaries like Blackhawk are still hiring. A growth industry, with unlimited public funding…who needs to pick on the New Deal when you have such wonderful privatized welfare to the rich and powerful?
No, the U.S. is about where Britain was after WW I. It took WWII to drive them into complete and utter bankruptcy. After 1940, they were wards of the U.S.
“Pricey Chula Vista” (Chula Juana)
who are they kidding ?
test
“Most homeowners at risk of foreclosure have yet to ask lenders for help and may lose their homes as a result, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said. More than 80 percent of ‘at-risk homeowners aren’t responding’ to letters sent by the Treasury-backed Hope Now Alliance of mortgage lenders, Paulson said.”
That’s because they don’t want the house or the associated burden, that comes with it. This is the trend that really has the banks craping their pants.
They also can’t be bothered to read anything. If they did read they wouldn’t be a FB.
Come to think of it, I bet more than a few of them thought the letter was some kind of scam.
They’re right, it is a scam!
I wish our government would protect our USD as forcefully as they are protecting high prices of homes across the nation.
I wish the consumer/citizen was as important as these dumb corporations.
As the small business’s go, and as the large corporations go, so goes the US economy.
Sharper Image out of business? What up with that?
What’s real ironic is that when you apply to be a US citizen the form asks if you have ever been a prostitute. What?
We kill off manufacturing, offshore IT and back office, but don’t you mess with our hos. I’m serious. We must protect our hos!!
Our ‘ho’s is the oldest profession. Kind of like the cockroach. It will always survive.
I’ve been thinking about doing door to door haircuts. I could make some bagel money, but I hate hair all over my clothes.
I think I’ll just make rice every day and huddle around a fire like they used to do in Asia.
Wait, what??! Nooooo, I have to go stock up on hair dryers!!
and Ionic breezes.
If they’re really trying to protect high house prices, they’re doing about as good a job as the much-blathered-about “Plunge Protection Team” did propping up the Nasdaq bubble in 2000.
What, haven’t you been listening? Bush and Paulson (and before him, Snow) have been telling us they have a strong dollar policy. For nearly 7 years now.
So quit with the “protect our USD” stuff. The government is protecting it with its “strong dollar policy”. They said so. Don’t you get it?
Which one of you is writing for Slate now?
http://www.slate.com/id/2185303/?from=rss
ROTFL
We see the sad faces of the people moving out, but we don’t as often see the happy faces of the new homeowners moving in. Nevertheless, those happy faces are out there, and we should not discount them.
Any one else notice the authors initials are SEL as in Sell?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“One family - the husband is a janitor, the wife a cleaner - bought their two bedroom bungalow in Oakland for $420,000 in 2005. Now their mortgage rate has reset and it is on the market for $119,000. It probably won’t fetch the list price. ‘If it had just doubled that wouldn’t have been so bad - at least they could rent an extra room out,’ says Mueller. ‘That’s what most families do to make up the difference. Then when that fails they try to do it with credit cards. Sooner or later they end up coming to see me. They come because they’ve been beaten to death.’”
They come to you because they’re MORONS!
A janitor and scrub woman buying a $420,000 house?!!!!!!!!
at least it’s gonna be clean, unless the “cobbler’s children” effect is present . . .
Try this “How much house can you buy?” calculator:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/Loan/HomeAffordabilityCalculator.aspx
It’s like an ice water bath to most, no doubt. It created by an economics professor, I believe. Definitely shows how distorted things have become, even with the “correction” underway, we’re miles from where things should be.
Just for giggles, try this calculator also.
P.S. Insert REAL figures.
Leigh
http://realestate.yahoo.com/calculators/rent_vs_own.html
I played around with it and it seems that houses over 400k don’t make a lot of sense vs renting a nice place. 300k made sense.
Nice houses used to be 300k or less. Note this is California.
YMMV but its wild that it came out about 50% than the prices.
Like everyone says.
My rule of thumb is to look for around 100 bucks or less a square foot when buying. Thats for CA for cheaper areas 50-60 sq ft.
Yeah I’m a bastard but from the calculator I can afford to wait