A Whistle Only Buyers Will Hear
The Telegram reports from Massachusetts. “The state’s housing market, reflecting the national scene, is a mess. Sales and prices have been in a downward slide since early 2006, and economists say it isn’t over. There is an abundance of supply, and the record foreclosure rate is dumping more properties onto the market each week, cramping prices even further. Judy Leonelli, owner of Century 21 in Mendon, said a lot of good properties are sitting because potential buyers are nervous or waiting for prices to drop further.”
“‘I think a lot of people have been sitting on the sidelines, particularly in this marketplace,’ she said. ‘I don’t know if they think someone will blow a whistle only buyers will hear, to get them out there.’”
“A 2,800-square-foot house in Mendon recently sold for $449,000. A house of the same size and nearly exact amenities in the same town sold for $538,000, she said after pulling sales records. ‘There’s not anything significantly different, and I think this one that just got sold is nicer,’ Ms. Leonelli said.”
“She pointed out another house in Uxbridge that she showed a few months ago, but did not sell. The 2,634-square-foot house was built in 2005, loaded with amenities, and sold that year for $570,000. It recently closed at $395,000, she said.”
“‘I showed it at $425,000,’ she said. ‘That’s a classic example of the kind of opportunities out there.’”
“Scott C. and Christina M. Pulicari of Uxbridge are trying to sell their home and purchase a newly constructed home in the same town so they will have more room for their sons. When Mr. Pulicari sold his last house seven years ago, it took less than 24 hours, after only three people looked at it, he said.”
“His current home has been on the market since late September, and he has lowered his asking price from $319,900 to $309,000. Unable to get an offer, he has had to pass up on making offers on another house, he said.”
“‘The new house was originally listed at $459,000, but is now $399,000, he said.”
“He said he will not consider paying the buyer’s closing costs or throwing in a flat screen television. ‘I work at a supermarket. My wife cleans houses. I don’t want to give things away. We did a lot to this house. I put new appliances in the kitchen, a tile backsplash, some new floors,’ Pulicari said.”
“He said he does not feel anxious over possibly missing the opportunities of reduced prices and low rates. ‘I do get a little frustrated, but there’s nothing I can do about it,’ he said.”
The Telegraph from New Hampshire. “Six months ago, it looked like New Hampshire was faring better than most states in the mortgage-industry meltdown. That’s what experts were saying, and the numbers seemed to back it up.”
“But by year’s end, New Hampshire had fallen close to the middle of the pack in terms of foreclosure and delinquency rates, according to just-released figures.”
“‘I think it simply took a little bit longer to hit our area,’ said Gina McCulloch, northern New England regional manager for Mortgage Network Inc. ‘I saw it hit Massachusetts quicker than it hit New Hampshire. But it’s heading north.’”
“By March 5 of last year, there were 95 foreclosures on record. But by March 5 of this year, there were 156, according to the Hillsborough County Registry of Deeds. Thirty of the to-date foreclosures were in Nashua.”
“‘No, I don’t find it surprising, because the loans that were written that should not have been written,’ McCullough said. ‘The credit crunch and delinquencies are absolutely continuing to become worse.’”
The Hartford Courant from Connecticut. “The housing recession in Connecticut deepened in January, with sales of single-family houses dropping 29 percent, compared with the same month a year earlier, and the median sales price of homes dropping by the largest percentage since 1995.”
“The market slowdown has spread through every part of the state, including Hartford County. The last time sales dropped by such a large percentage during a single month was in July 1989. It is the fifth month in a row in which Connecticut housing sales have dropped by double-digit percentages.”
“‘The market sucks,’ said John Zubretsky, president of Century 21 Access America, based in Wethersfield, with 14 offices in Connecticut and Rhode Island. ‘Anyone who claims this is a good market is fooling themselves. Inventory is just so high, and there is a perception out there that this is not a good time to sell a home.’”
“‘Connecticut spent most of 2007 defying the downward trends in neighboring states, at least when it came to prices,’ said Timothy Warren Jr., CEO of The Warren Group. ‘But 2008 is starting out on a different foot, and there’s probably more to come.’”
“At the same time, the inventory of homes for sale jumped. In January, there were 4,838 single-family homes for sale in the Hartford area, a 6 percent increase from January 2007 and an almost 70 percent increase from January 2003, according to the Greater Hartford Association of Realtors.”
“In other words, there are now about two or three buyers for every 10 homes for sale, said Rob Giuffria, a broker in Farmington.”
“‘I’m telling my sellers, ‘If you don’t have to sell, wait,’ Giuffria said. ‘It’s just not a good time to sell. However, if you do have to sell, you have to price appropriately.’”
“‘I just worked with a buyer this weekend who is selling a $600,000 house in Southington and bought a $1.3 million home in Farmington — a cash deal, no mortgage,’ Giuffria said. ‘Will he be able to sell that house in Southington? I don’t know. Some towns are going to continue to do well, and others are going to fall off the cliff.’”
The Providence Journal from Rhode Island. “Rhode Island’s real-estate market in January continued to deteriorate. The median price of a single-family house in Rhode Island fell 12.8 percent compared with the previous January — nearly three times the rate in Massachusetts — to $235,000. That marks the largest monthly decline in Rhode Island house prices since the Warren Group began tracking the market in 1989.”
“Until now, the price declines could be blamed partly on the large number of properties being repurchased by banks at foreclosure auctions.”
“The Warren Group’s latest report, however, attempts to more accurately measure the market by excluding from its calculations all properties that banks repurchased at foreclosure auctions, sales between family members and other ‘non-arm’s length’ sales because they tend to distort the statistics, said the research group’s data analyst, Alan Pasnik.”
“‘In a small state like Rhode Island, month-by-month numbers do not always indicate trends,’ CEO Timothy Warren Jr., said in a statement. ‘But we have seen declines in single-family home sales hover around 20 percent for the past five months, and monthly price drops leading up to January have been pushing toward 10 percent.’”
The Times Herald Record from New York. “Orange County home sales plunged last month to the lowest level since at least 2001, according to the Orange County Association of Realtors.”
“The 99 sales completed in February represented a 37 percent decline compared with the same month of 2007. The median sale price of $297,000 was 7 percent lower than a year ago. Ulster County’s median price slipped nearly 7 percent to $225,000, according to the Ulster County Board of Realtors.”
“The extent of the carnage surprised OCAR Chief Executive Ann Garti. ‘It was almost as if, because our numbers were still up (last summer), we weren’t comprehending the extent of the fallout,’ Garti said.”
“Orange County homes are taking longer to sell, and sellers are knocking more off their list prices in order to close deals, according to OCAR data. Builders have lopped tens of thousands off their asking prices and are still struggling to unload inventory.”
“Several vendors at the home show said they’ve increased promotions and emphasized value to keep customers coming in. Competition is intense. ‘At one point, there was food for everybody, and now there’s not,” said Matthew Wilhelm, president of EKB Kitchen and Bath, which operates showrooms in the Town of Wallkill, Kingston and Beacon.”
“The competition is good news for homeowners looking to remodel. Like buyers shopping for homes, they have more options, and can play one supplier or contractor against another.”
“Helga Weiss of LaGrange, for instance, is in the market for a kitchen remodel. ‘I’m trying to get an idea where I can get the best deal,’ Weiss said after looking over Kitchen Elegance’s stock.”
“Then she turned to George Loussedes, owner of Kitchen Elegance in Clinton Corners, Dutchess County. ‘You don’t give a senior discount, do you?’”
The Sharon Herald from Pennsylvania. “Mercer County sheriff’s sales for home foreclosures in 2007 continued at a torrid pace of 354 houses — just three shy of the all-time record set the prior year. Compared to 1995, this marks more than a 10-fold increase.” “The situation is even worse than those numbers indicate, said Mark Thompson, housing director for Shenango Valley Urban League.”
“‘A sheriff’s sale is the most extreme point in a foreclosure,’ Thompson said. ‘About one-third to one-half of foreclosed homes have gone to sheriff’s sale. The rest have gone through foreclosure but the homeowner found some way to resolve it.’”
“‘Nobody is talking of things improving or a turn in the numbers yet,’ Thompson said. ‘It’s a very scary thing.’”
“In addition to bad lenders, Tina Beecher, a housing caseworker for Community Action Partnership of Mercer County, said she has clients who lacked financial know-how and bought more of a home than they could afford.”
“‘These are people who just buried themselves in debt,’ she said. ‘They aren’t making the mortgage payment first. Instead they’re taking care of their credit card or car payment.’”
“Ms. Beecher tries to work a payment arrangement between her clients and a lender to allow homeowners to keep their house. Most lenders are willing to deal — but not all. ‘The toughest are subprime lenders with call centers overseas,’ she said. ‘They’re foreign-owned. If they put an American out of their home they couldn’t care less.’”
The Beaver County Times from Pennsylvania. “In Pennsylvania last year, there were 34,089 foreclosures. That figure dropped from 38,333 foreclosures in 2006, but was well above the 28,650 in 2005, according to RealtyTrac.”
“The percentage of households affected was highest in Philadelphia, at 0.86 percent. Lawrence, Dauphin, Westmoreland and Beaver counties rounded out the top five.”
“In January, said Daniel Murrer, vice president of RealSTATs, the Pittsburgh regional housing market was the slowest in seven years, with the number of sales dropping 18.4 percent compared to January 2007.”
“In Beaver County, Murren said, 84 more families lost their homes to foreclosure between 2006 and 2007, a 22 percent increase. ‘That’s bad news any way you look at it,’ Murrer said.”
“Ed McLaughlin, owner of Bovard-Anderson Co. in Beaver, acknowledged that the local housing market ‘is in a cycle like the rest of the country. It goes up and down.’”
“Yong Staughton has been casually trying to sell a house on Highland Avenue in Baden for about a year now. Once in a while, someone will be interested in it, but she said there haven’t been any serious nibbles in quite some time.”
“‘What are you going to do?’ Staughton said. ‘You just have to wait until the right person comes along.’”
‘When Mr. Pulicari sold his last house seven years ago, it took less than 24 hours, after only three people looked at it, he said.’
‘His current home has been on the market since late September, and he has lowered his asking price from $319,900 to $309,000. Unable to get an offer, he has had to pass up on making offers on another house, he said. ‘The new house was originally listed at $459,000, but is now $399,000, he said.’
One; this shows how long this bubble has been going on. Two, he lowers his price $10k and the house he wants is down $50k. Real smart. He also says it’s a great market if you don’t have to sell. Enjoy that priced in feeling Mr. P.
This is the guy who also said:
“He said he will not consider paying the buyer’s closing costs or throwing in a flat screen television. ‘I work at a supermarket. My wife cleans houses. I don’t want to give things away. We did a lot to this house. I put new appliances in the kitchen, a tile backsplash, some new floors,’ Pulicari said.”
Let me tell you something, Mr. P., I have installed new flooring. It’s not difficult to do. The hard part is ripping up the old flooring, and, quite frankly, an ape can do that.
Ditto for installing new kitchen appliances. Unless they’re built-ins, the appliance store will deliver and set them up for you. As for the tile backsplash, that does take some skill, but it’s not something that the average DIY-er couldn’t master.
Next, please…
We did a lot to this house
Yawn…
And two years from now, when you are still trying to sell it, all of those upgrades will be dated and the walls will need to be repainted.
And the driveway will have cracks.
And the mailbox got creamed by the snow plow, 4 times.
And the Oak tree branches need to be cut back by a pro….
Yawn…
My sentiments exactly. My feeling is that the changes that you make on/in your house are either the cost of maintaining it, or because it’s something that YOU (Mr. P)want to enjoy while you live there. And it especially sounds arrogant to think that I should pay you for the niceties that YOU (Mr. P) wanted. Sure there are some return on remodel costs, but by no means is it a given or that it will be a 100% return. Be my guest following the market down while you wait for the money that you think you deserve. My advice? Get with the program. It’s a new day.
BayQT~
Sure there are some return on remodel costs, but by no means is it a given or that it will be a 100% return
100%, who wants that. Gee, do you not watch that documentary show “Flip This/That House”. They show people getting 500% or more on their improvements!
I *do* watch them, and it’s absolutely crazy that they have such high expectations on their “flips”. All pie-in-the-sky expectations. Contraty to endings of shows circa 2005, 2006…the current ones don’t always end with a “sold for big profits” ending.
There are some new shows out now, too. I don’t know the names of them all but HGTV has “Buy Me”. I have yet to watch it, but I’ll tune in one day.
BayQT~
I work at a supermarket. My wife cleans houses.
Anyone else suprised that they are shopping $300K + homes?
Must be one heck of a union they have at his store
Hmmm… depends oon his level at the grocery. If he is a manager and it is a larger chain store, he could be at $50-60K a year.
My cleaner charges $20 per hour. Allowing for commute times between houses, she could be making $30- 35K.
Still, that would only be $80 -95K. That would mean a $240-300K mortgage plus whatever they have to put down.
RE: Still, that would only be $80 -95K.
A financial advisor appearing on a local ABC affilitate program called Chronicles made the proclamation to a middle-aged couple who needed a “make-over”, that a family gross of $70k per year makes you low-income in MAZZ.
Both worked in the private sector. The male spouse was already working two jobs. The advisor’s offered 2 solutions to their problems…Move or get a 4th job.
COME ON!
This is reason 9,098,546 why we are in the mess we are in in this country. When people making 70K are considered low-income, yes, even in MAZZHOLE, we have a serious problem.
What is 70K? Isn’t that the top 20-25% of the country. I don’t have the stats, so don’t shoot me. I also realize that this is Boston, snobs, but still. If you make that much and still need a 4th job, then you need to cut expenses or move to someplace cheaper. Find a better lifestyle situation.
Man, this one gets me going. I am so sick of this. Just bring on the depression. This country needs it badly. Our values, NOT MORALS, are so screwed up.
GREED IS NOT, I REPEAT, NOT GOOD!
BTW, that 200B that BB dropped from the helicopter. Let’s see where the Dow is on Thursday and Friday. Guarantee that money will be gone by then and the rate cut is def. on schedule for next week.
Yeah, that’s right just keep generating more debt and more debt. That’s the way to save everyone on WS from BK.
Oh, I need to go and get some air. I am fed up with the whole stickin’ mess. Let it fall. NOW!
MA is high. Median income is around $67K.
It is overstating it to call $70K ‘low income” considering that is slightly above the 50th percentile.
On the other hand, the 2 MA housing programs that do loans go up to incomes around $75K based upon household size (or 80% of median income for the specific town for that size household) and $110 K (or 135% of the median income for the specific town) respectively.
70k “is” low income when the Gov (all levels included) take about 30-40% of your take home.
Uxbridge is a town that is a 1.5 hr commute from Boston, 1/2 hr to Worcester (not much industry there) and 1/2 Hr to Providence (slightly better but with cheaper housing in better towns located closer by). The school system is in the bottom 1/3 of the state. I wouldn’t pay 150K for the house they are trying to sell given the town it’s located in. There is also a lot (by MA standards) of new construction there as the Uxbridge / Mendon area is one of the few pockets of MA with open areas left, so they will have a lot of competition.
I also agree that they have no business buying anything over 300K. He’ll be thankful in a couple of years.
It’s been hard to find anything for less than that the last few years in most of MA
There’s nothing wrong with wanting a bigger house. The question is whether you can afford it.
You can satisfy your hunger at Burger King. But, if you have money, wouldn’t you rather go to a nice restaurant instead?
Don’t diss people just because they work in a supermarket. My wife used to work in a supermarket as a pharmacist and she made more money than me.
people like this guy make me laugh so hard … as he sputters on about the improvements he made to his precious house, that we should all just bow down and appreciate his incredible foresight n hard work that just produced such a valuable item. he cant just give it away. Lordy !
had a friend in similar mind frame; super nice guy, very book smart but a terrible business person. he ran (or tried to run) a little gas station/auto repair shop just outside Beale AFB main gate in the 70’s/80’s. this guy was a retired USAF ace aircraft mechanic but when he inherited classic musclecar fixers from GI’s going TDY, he WOULD NOT sell these cars for any reasonable price, other than some crazy sky-high value he wanted. over time there were at least 20-30 assorted vehicles piled-up like chargers, camaros, race motorcycles, etc. . . all rusting in the Northern CA weather. sadly, it became somewhat of a hazardous junkyard eyesore.
eventually the air force just towed em all away for scrap after bulldozing the property on eminant domain proceedings.
its really a shame when people dig in their heels, so convinced of their righteousness as the world goes on spinning and life passes ‘em by.
RE: he WOULD NOT sell these cars for any reasonable price,
Yeah, the junk yard guy’s are a hard breed to understand.
I can remember at least 3 Plymouth/Dodge Daytona “Super Bees”, which are the rarest of the 60’s muscle cars, now with six-figure restored values; sitting out in a driveway or rear yard just rotting away.
Scores would offer decent money simply to get ‘em out of the elements and all would be rejected.
Personally, I think the owner’s enjoyed the ego of ownership because they had nothin’ else goin’ in their lives.
All these idjits are doing is increasing the value for collectors that do buy and sell them by reducing availability.
It’s amazing how much some of those old musclecars are selling for now. It would seem like boomers love to blow cash on “cars of their youth” more than any other generation. 40-70k for a Charger? the cars were rusty clunkers when they were new because Chrysler didn’t know how to make a unibody car back then.
I have a 55′ Mercury that is actually going down in value since those who were young whipper-snappers of the day are now dying off. Doesn’t bother me, I’ve driven it for 8 years so far. But the same will happen with these musclecars too once some of the boomers start getting too old to drive them or provide the upkeep.
RE: I have a 55′ Mercury that is actually going down in value
When the Boomers die off, the era of “collectibles” will come to a screeching halt.
Somehow I don’t think “HIP-HOP ‘HOE by the GANGSTA BOYZ on MP3 is gonna make to the oldies record collector’s table.
I need to chime on this one as related to another hobby of the Boomers and Gen Xers…card collecting.
I know we have gone over this a few times the last 12 months, but it bears repeating. Okay, I admit I collect. But, I have never understood the new grading systems used. By that I mean, I understand that a third party can guarantee is is not a fake, but that doesn’t mean that a card like a 52 Mantle, one of the biggies should go from being a 15K card to 250K. What a crock. Just because a third party authenticates and grades the card’s condition, doesn’t make it 10-15X more valuable than one that is what we call graded “raw.” It is a lot like numismatic coins. Gee golly Gomer. I think that gold coin, which is woth spot, should be worth 2K because it is rated a 70. Come on. SInce when did we become so idiotic as to pay outrageous, inflated prices for something like this?
Same with art. Sorry TX. Just can’t see spending 100 mil on something my 5 yr old daughter could have painted.
What crap!
Re art: I classify into objective art and subjective art. Objective art is perceived and understood as art (1) throughout generations, no matter when viewed (heard, experienced, etc.), and (2) across cultures. It generates similar emotions across cultures and generations. If it doesn’t pass this test, it is subjective art, and its value is transient.
(Doesn’t just work for art; compare gold and the dollar.)
I seem to remember lots of record prices being set for collector cars, whether they be muscle cars, Bugattis, or Millers, at the end of the last boom (early 1990s).
Several years later they were going for a fraction of their peak prices.
Go have a look at Cars in Barns. Filled with many “I’ll let it sit and rot before I take a penny less than my outrageous asking price - I don’t NEED to sell it” types.
That brings me to another point. The collector car market is in an even bigger bubble than housing right now - no doubt due to what I call the Barrett-Jackson factor. Go have a look on your local Craigslist for musclecars from the 60’s. Anything driveable will be anywhere from $20k-$100k. A rusting hulk in the backyard typically has an asking price from $10-$20k. Lots of ads say, ” restored goes for $100k at Barrett-Jackson” and “NADA price is $100k for mint!”
Keep it.
A lot of old cars are being sold overseas to people who want classics. The weak USD at work…
A guy from Norway offered me $7,000 for mine about a year ago, which is more than the car is worth. He was going to ship it back to Norway and drive it in some sort of American car club there. This is a hokey-pokey 4 door family sedan that has power nothing. I can’t imagine how much it would cost to ship it there.
I turned him down because I really like the car and didn’t like the idea of it cruising around Norway.
That weak dollar at work is also supposedly having Europeans buying up US property right now. Evidently, they haven’t heard that prices are still dropping! Sure hope they don’t ‘prop’ up this market.
At the peak of the last bubble, many of the classics (whether they be American or European) were sold to the Japanese.
Does anyone remember Autopolis?
Precisely, and I highly doubt that this low IQ moron can afford a house like that if he did not buy his sometime ago with half the price. Supermarket worker and house cleaner are all the rage today among the new RE millionaires. I bet their house can only be sold for $200k.
According to MA land records- he bought in 2001 for 208K - refinanced 3 times - now has a mortgage at $244K with an ARM that caps out at 10.375. Payments at the 5-plus rate he has now have to be at least $1500..
Are we at 2001 prices? If he priced at 2001, would it still sell in 24 hours? If so, today’s market is still as bubbly as in 2001.
3% / yr inflation adjusted price is $256k using the purchase price in 2001 as a base line.
MA bubble started in 97/98 - just like in San Fran - with the tech bubble. We were a few years ahead of the rest - the growth from 01-05 was about 10-20% /yr. The biggest years of appreciation were pre-9/11. I bet the house was going for 100K in 96.
“He said he will not consider paying the buyer’s closing costs or throwing in a flat screen television. ‘I work at a supermarket. My wife cleans houses. I don’t want to give things away. We did a lot to this house. I put new appliances in the kitchen, a tile backsplash, some new floors,’ Pulicari said.”
Pesonal PROBLEMS..personal PROBLEMS Mr. HomeDebtor, these ARE merely YOUR OWN personal PROBLEMS.
Have your told them to your friendly St. Joesph Real Estate Statue at the bottom of your Fairy Garden by the magical Wishing Well ?
actually the guy is in pretty good shape
Unable to get an offer, he has had to pass up on making offers on another house
he’s got a good house and he’s not going to make an offer on another until he sells the first one!
Ahhhhh, the smell of stupidity and desperation in the morning. Not as deliciously fragrant as napalm, but still goes well with Cheerios, at least from where I’m sitting. Which is right here, splashing sugary milk right into my keyboard.
Say, Ben, can we have a PNW thread? It’s been ever sooooo looooonnnng since you posted a thread about Washington and Oregon. We have plenty of idjits here, too, let me remind you, in case you forgot that from being overwhelmed by the sheer number of idjits elsewhere.
The PPT hard at work!
PPT needs to spend more time with $5k/hr escorts.
Sure. I like requests!
I would consider relocating to Oregon or Washington for it’s wonderful weather and mountains. Too bad starter 1500 squre feet houses in small towns are going for $300k
The weather isn’t THAT wonderful. 250 cloudy/rainy days a year west of the Cascades; subzero temperatures and a very short growing season east. The climate you want is Central California (Bay Area/Santa Cruz/Monterey). Those prices are going down.
hahahahahahahahah
breath
hahahahaha
Huh?
wonderful weather in the pacific northwest? it rains like 367 days a year.
‘Too bad starter 1500 squre feet houses in small towns are going for $300k .’
Give it some time, bye, give it some time. We were late to the bubble-bustin but I do believe we’ve joined the party now. I’m waiting eagerly to see how lowwwww we go.
Besides, what else you got to do with your time, be virtuous or something? Hahaha!
;>)
(Just teasing you a tad there, per your bits bucket post.)
“The extent of the carnage surprised OCAR Chief Executive Ann Garti. ‘It was almost as if, because our numbers were still up (last summer), we weren’t comprehending the extent of the fallout,’ Garti said.”
Amazing. Orange County transactions were DOWN last summer over 2006. The median price, as flawed as it is was UP a whopping 0.6% over the previous year. What is it about sales volume that these pukes don’t understand?? Their (il)logic tells me that the only thing that matters is price. So long as the price stays high, all is well, to hell with transaction volume but maybe reality is crashing back with a vengeance.
as they say in mass he is not wicked smaaaart
I always wondered about that. A lot of local papers aggregate online under ‘wicked news’ or something like that.
Welcome to Mass. Where one announces he has to take a shicked wit and the other responds, “oh my word”.
“Wicked Local” is the umbrella for local newspapers
The Affleck-Damon gang has made advertisers and the media thinking that Bostonisms and accents a great source of pride.
It always has been for the folks who speak it, but now that the marketers have piled on, it looses some of its gruffness, IMHO.
Not just Boston - you hear ‘wicked’ used in exactly the same way in London (not the Canadian one, either).
Scott C. and Christina M. Pulicari of Uxbridge are trying to sell their home and purchase a newly constructed home in the same town so they will have more room for their sons.
Not to pick on the Pulicaris, but I am curious generally–why do people seem to need so much space now? I love big, old Victorians, but I just don’t get the NEED for 3,000 sq feet of house for a family of three or four.
Because they’re greedy slobs?
LOL - equal amounts of truth and humor here.
for all their cheap trinkets and other assorted crap oh and of course their ego’s
Beats me. I grew up in a house with 3 siblings and a large dog and somehow we all survived living in a 1200 sq ft house sharing a bathroom.
Have they never heard of starting small and then adding on, if more space is needed? Our house looks like a double-wide trailer, we have added on so much (no room to expand width-wise, only length-wise)!
Since they’re selling at $309k, assume they take $300k. They owe their real estate agent 6%, so that right there is $18k. Add the closing costs of the new place at $5k, and for $23k, if they’re handy, they could do a nice rennovation that would likely make their current place seem larger.
But that would involve (a) doing math, (b) saving money, and (c) work; none of which are listed under “strengths” in their application to breed.
Our house was so small when you put the key in the front door it broke the back window.
Ba-da-dum
My “home” was actually just a basement of a house that was never completed. I don’t recall feeling deprived.
We were small fam/4 with 1 bathroom. Friends had 11kids 1 bathroom. They turned out alright, will see a few of them this summer.I believe when I was asked for ‘overnight’ as kid, I was #5 in one room. It was so much fun.
Didn’t know any different.Room? who needs it. And everyone there shared clothes for special events etc.
Same here. Not only that, one parent could afford to pay for it, while the other stayed home. And there were pensions.
Recall that the big old Victorians were the McMansions of their day. And that style was replaced by the bungalows, which were MUCH smaller.
Recall that the big old Victorians were the McMansions of their day. And that style was replaced by the bungalows, which were MUCH smaller.
Oh, I get that in their day the Victorians were just as ostentatious and flashy, though at least they were built to last and with some genuine detail (unlike today’s McMansions). I can even understand (I guess) wanting a 3000 sq ft house (though the idea of having to heat/cool it makes my blood curdle). I just don’t get people concluding that such houses are actually a need, and acting accordingly–taking on outrageous debt, living above their means, struggling for years on end, not saving–in order to have them. In most homes I visit, people have entire rooms that they never even rooms that they never even use, or that just hold junk that they never even use. It just seems like collective madness that so many of us see that as being worth struggling for.
When I was growing up, I had a neighbor whose house was not completely furnished. The rest of us used to talk behind that family’s back, and the talk was the “biting off more (house) than they can chew” variety.
3000 sq ft aint that big — that’s the size of a standard colonial if it has a finished basement. Very common in East Coast and Midwest.
Modest midwestern Colonials:
http://tinyurl.com/3356mg
http://tinyurl.com/2lqyt8
Actually, those old Victorians were built to house three generations - mom/pop, the kids, and grams/gramps. Families had more kids then, also.
Where else will they put the crud they don’t need that they bought with money they don’t have to impress people they don’t like?
It’s all a case of “mine’s bigger than yours!” - the pathetic greed that runs today’s society.
Pondering the Mess - Well said, and so true.
It’s just like men who need big SUVs. Something else is a lot smaller in these people’s lives. They are just making up for another area that lacks.
I don’t quite get it either even though we did make a move for more space once - went from 1400 to 1800 sq feet (plus a basement, that’s another floor under the main one for you California folks).
“‘I think a lot of people have been sitting on the sidelines, particularly in this marketplace,’ she said. ‘I don’t know if they think someone will blow a whistle only buyers will hear, to get them out there.’”
Where are all these buyers sitting on the sidelines? We are still near record numbers on homeowners, think it dropped from 69% to 68%, so, these buyers are currently sitting in houses they can’t sell. A whistle blow isn’t exactly going to set off a stampede.
Anyone ever have a dog that ignored those whistles? I have!
lol
How about this, smart buyers with a down payment are rational to be scared. Most of the previous ‘buyer pool’ is no longer qualified and is thus no longer a ‘buyer.’
Only the homes priced well enough to sell in 60 days move. No one is looking at worse values. As inventory climbs, at that 8.7 month ‘break point,’ the fresh ‘well priced’ inventory is enough to satisfy the market. No one else will necessarily sell unless they stop chasing the market at become the lead dog.
We have at least two more years of decline. Probably more.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“How about this, smart buyers with a down payment are rational to be scared. Most of the previous ‘buyer pool’ is no longer qualified and thus is no longer a ‘buyer’”
I like it. After a fool and his money are parted only the wise are left with the bucks, and the wise are wise enough not to buy.
I like the way this quote simultaneously insults potential buyers (comparing them to dogs) and expresses frustration that they’re not running to her beck and call.
Stupid, buyers! Why aren’t they buying?? No fair! MOMMIEEEE!!!
Us cash and own buyers in So Ca, still are seeing prices in the stratosphere. When they are down 50%-65% from the peak, we’ll go shopping for resale.
It’s not a whistle, but more of a squeal I’m waiting to hear.
That, after I hear this woman gagging as she opens wide to swallow a large dose of reality.
It is certainly true that sales have slowed and prices have come down in Western PA. I would love to find out what the average mortgage was on those foreclosures up in Mercer. They can’t be that much since the median homeprice is around $100,000.
I always thought that Western PA would be relatively immune to a massive housing slump since it didn’t have far to fall. Prices rose, but not in a very bubbly way over the last 10 years since the economy has been in the crapper for the last 30. I guess I should re-examine my assumption.
Thats an anomaly in the rust belt which extends into parts of NY. Economically its been so bad there that any speculative payoff on the horizon is viewed as a reversal of economic fortune and thus permanent. It is for this reason I believe there such dense denial of the truth regarding housing in parts of NY. Make no mistake, just because housing is “affordable” (150k) doesn’t mean the BubbleMonster didn’t pay a visit. Those same 150k shacks were 40-50k just 5 years ago and NOBODY is willing to let go of it.
I say let go or be dragged.
One problem with non-bubble areas was that even though prices weren’t skyrocketing, the number of toxics mortgages was.
Here in Southeast Michigan for example, something like 50% or more of the mortgages in either ‘06 or ‘07 (or both) were “subprime.” So people took on these teaser loans to get hands on cash even when prices weren’t going up. This went on even though we’ve been in recession here for going on 3-4 years now.
Now with continued layoffs, downsizing, pay cuts, loss of overtime, mortgage resets etc. the results are generally the same as one now sees in California, Florida etc. Specific causes might be different, but the Song Remains the Same.
“A 2,800-square-foot house in Mendon recently sold for $449,000. A house of the same size and nearly exact amenities in the same town sold for $538,000, she said after pulling sales records. ‘There’s not anything significantly different, and I think this one that just got sold is nicer,’ Ms. Leonelli said.”
When is the MSM going to stop quoting peak prices as if they were some kind of normal, and anything lower is cheap?
Start with 2000 comps. Add on wage growth since then. Then give the current price.
“A 2,800-square-foot house in Mendon recently sold for $449,000. A house of the same size and nearly exact amenities in the same town sold for $300,000 in 2000, she said after pulling sales records, and wages have only gone up 20 percent since then, meaning a price of $360,000 would be equivalent. ‘There’s not anything significantly different, and I think the economy was much stronger in 2000 than in 2008,’ Ms. Leonelli said.”
Or should have said.
“Start with 2000 comps. Add on wage growth since then. Then give the current price.”
This is our new Battle Cry of the Repugnant.
Lots of kool-aid drinkers still floating around up here in the Jackson/Bartlett/Conway, NH area.
Here are some land prices from that area
31 acre lot that a developer bought in Dec 04 for 488K, couldn’t make it work so is willing to let it go for 1.2M
46 acre lot a family trust bought in Jun 03 for 150K,
willing to entertain offers between 279-310K (oh, by all means, put me down for the higher bid. douche bag)
3.55 acre lot (in an association to boot) purchased May 04 for 99K, willing to sacrifice said parcel for 199K today.
Unfriggin believeable the amount of disconnect with reality these dolts have with today’s market. Looks like it’ll be another couple of years wait up here in the north country.
Durr… whistles only for buyers… waiting for the right sucker - er, buyer to come along… duhhh…
Or, they could try LOWERING THE PRICE to something that people can actually AFFORD without a toxic loan! Durrr!
Here in Western Mass. I am noticing houses being listed on Zillow that are not yet on Realtor.com. These are houses with agents, though. It looks like agents are delaying putting the houses on the mls in order to keep a sell-by date off them.
If so, it smells of real desperation.
I’m seeing this everywhere I travel. I’ll get back to the hotel and try to find properties on the MLS that I jogged by… More than half are not on any site!
There is a massive shadow inventory out there. One home my wife and I toured, overpriced by a massive $500k to $700k, was pulled off the market due to the lack of interest. I guess the ‘owners’ will ride out the free rent. (Suicide loan). You couldn’t expect them to give it away, now could you?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Remember too, a lot of houses have been on the market so long the listing has expired, but the sign is still up.
Zillow is complete BS. I’d wager they’re part of a NAR holding company.
It does make you wonder, exeter, doesn’t it?
From the Editors of American Banker
Zillow’s Next Play: Lead Generation
“Zillow.com could shake up the market for online mortgage leads by capturing information from prospective borrowers who use its Web site while shopping for a home and then giving the data to lenders.”
most homeowners seem to consider the zillow valuatuion of their home to be absolute (unless it does not match their expectations of course…
I am not sure zillow has any relation to the NAR, but I am pretty sure they have a vested interest in pumping “zestimates”
Here in Newton Mass, a few lower end places are going for 5-15% below assessment. It’s happening. It took long enough but prices are starting to trend downward.
RE: Here in Newton Mass
Top of the pile in Mazzland.
Makes ya wonder what the dungheaps in Lawrence, Lynn, Brockton, et. el. are doing?
The nice young family I sold a four bedroom house in to in the summer of 2005 (Dedham, working-class neighborhood) have lost 10% so far. Adjust that for inflation and they are out ~20% in total.
Man am I glad to have escaped that house!
I would like to address the comments by people in the industry that are along the line of “real estate goes up and down ,and its just a cycle “.
Real estate cycles do not have to be along the lines of wide swings ,in fact if they are wide swings than the powers and lenders have not done their job right . Lenders should pull back when a market gets overheated knowing they are taking loan risks and underwriting should keep in line with local incomes and general inflation and the the local economy .
The fact that the planning departments “missed it ” regarding the true demand ,and they allowed overbuilding without the roads ,local jobs ,and energy systems to support the building is another mistake that caused the extreme swing . Fed Chairmans that can’t spot speculation verses a healthy demand have no excuse for “missing it”.
There needs to be some check and balance on a market turning into a speculative market based on simply places like Wall Street having excess funds looking for yields and a place to put money ,thereby the market is flooded with easy cheap money that is misplaced .All of a sudden models of risk were created that defied long term risk models and common sense .
In other words ,you can have a stable market that might tract with wage and general inflation ,but if everyone is doing their job ,it doesn’t turn into the wide swings like a bi-polar person who hasn’t taken their medication .
In other words ,you can have a stable market that might tract with wage and general inflation ,but if everyone is doing their job ,it doesn’t turn into the wide swings like a bi-polar person who hasn’t taken their medication .
Yes. Ideally it wouldn’t be a swing. But the California and Florida Markets have been Bi-Polar for a century. They brought the rest of the nation along with them. Until we undershoot affordability… we won’t return to the mean.
To control inflation, multiple countries are considering dropping the dollar peg:
Chile
UAE
Saudi Arabia
(and probably more)
To stabilize, we need exports. Ok, bring manufacturing back will help. (RR aero engines, BMW cars, Honda into Ohio, etc.) But it went wrong for too long.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
I agree Neil, and I think your right about what we need . When something goes “wrong for to long ” like you said ,the right answers cause a lot more pain than the easy fix or bail out that keeps the party going .
Lets face it , Americans needs good jobs to replace the fake housing bubble . We need to get productive again and we don’t need more houses.
“…Americans needs good jobs …”
Wiz, you just brought up a very sore point for me. We *would* have more good jobs if they weren’t so many of them being sent off-shore. I could say more but let me just say that something is really not right about certain hiring practices and jobs being sent to other countries. Plus, while the cost of education goes up, our graduates can’t even look forward to being hired for what they went to school for.
BayQT~
For some reason this post made me think of Barbie: “math is hard”.
Returning to an export producing economy will mean successfully competing in the world. It will require real investments, technical and business competencies, and the development and capitalization of tangible skills.
This is a far cry from the road-to-riches so many have fancied themselves upon; flipping houses, cashing out phantom equity, or the financial parasites skimming off the resultant churn.
It’s going to be hard.
Besides planes, heavy machinery, pharma, ag, and a few other sectors, we can’t compete in a globalized economy in manufacturing. Compared to other countries, our wages are still too high. I believe its a race to the bottom. Isn’t it too late to re-enter manufacturing?
I would assume the barn door was left open too long. Do you think a foreign firm like Toyota, would build another plant here in the states, when they could take it to Asia, and save a bundle? Peak Oil will leave its mark, but I still think we are now an importing nation. Sad part is, we no longer export our inflation, and import our deflation in products.
Just food for thought. Maybe someone can chime in and inform me.
No, we can become competitive again, if we get rid of certain parts of our economy. If housing drops to rational level, the wage amount does not need to be as high. Also, if you get rid of most unions, and instead foster a better worker-company relation ship seen in some asian companies, then we can also produce better products… Henry Ford got it right when he raised wages to attract good workers, and he made sure that they were able to afford their own product. We as a nation have degraded our purchasing power by outsourcing everything, that we no longer can afford our own products, much less the rest of the world.
This housing bubble has implications far removed from the issue of housing. I believe that several posters have seen their companies relocate to lower cost locales, where the workers have a better standard of living than in the most bubblicious areas.
What I do not understand is how someone with a PhD like Bernanke would fail to recognize this? I know the board loves him for all his steely resolve, but c-mon, isn’t it time that we get back to the business of being in business and not selling houses to each other?
“The fact that the planning departments missed it’ regarding the true demand ,and they allowed overbuilding”
Speaking as one with a city planning background who once worked as a region economist at a city planning department, I don’t think its the role of city planners to manage demand in the real estate market, do you?
“Without the roads ,local jobs ,and energy systems to support the building.”
Well that they are supposed to do, match development with infrastructure. But infrastructure isn’t a problem if the houses are empty.
RE: The fact that the planning departments “missed it ” regarding the true demand ,and they allowed overbuilding without the roads ,local jobs ,and energy systems to support the building is another mistake that caused the extreme swing .
Wiz~
I think if you pulled back the curtain, you’d find most of the urban/community planners were probably told by the mayor and other assorted gov’mint lackeys to the financiers, to keep their mouth’s shut and “play ball”; or they’d be out of a job.
So, the money guys make their dough and the major gets to shout about all the growth and “prosperity occuring on his watch.
Now that everything’s blown up-it’s look for the scapegoat time-and whose more convenient than all those planning guys who didn’t do their damn jobs. Most of the planners I ever ran into, tended to be a pretty conservative, pragmatic bunch.
Were renting. It strikes me as funny how the owners were quite happy to oblige with necessary repairs on the property last year. Now zillow (FWIW) has the house $20,000 below their purchase price in 08/04. We told them a month ago that the roof was leaking and coming into the bedroom through one of the vents. Haven’t heard a peep from them. Recourse? BTW it’s through a property management company.
that’s more than likely grounds for withholding the rent or being refunded… but it depends on State law and other things.
Inform the LL in writing asap.. then get some legal counsel from someone local, like a Tenant’s Union. Google for hits on “tenant’s rights” + Alabama/California/Timbuktu..
personally i’d talk to the LL (again) first to make sure they got the message .. no sense in causing a rukus if it’s just a matter of faulty communications.
Water leaks are a great source of mold. You should be very careful for certain types of mold can cause serious health issues. You should get some legal advice.
“‘The new house was originally listed at $459,000, but is now $399,000, he said. He said he will not consider paying the buyer’s closing costs or throwing in a flat screen television. ‘I work at a supermarket. My wife cleans houses. I don’t want to give things away. We did a lot to this house. I put new appliances in the kitchen, a tile backsplash, some new floors,’ Pulicari said.”
“I work at a supermarket. My wife cleans houses.”
Precisely why you, a grocery bagger and a floor scrubber, have no business buying a $400,000 house.
Precisely why you, a grocery bagger and a floor scrubber, have no business buying a $400,000 house.
Sounds like a good, honest, hard working couple to me. Since they have already reduced their asking price by $60,000 they are not completely delusional, either.
I think it would be more productive to insult Realtwhores and mortgage brokers, not people who actually earn their living.
Sorry, misread the figures. They only reduced by $10,000 but the house they want to buy has been reduced by $60,000.
Still, I like hard working people.
The article doesn’t say, but these folks are on the way to a second bubble house. And they expect some GF to finance their next overpayment. It’s good they work. They’ll need it.
Precisely why you, a grocery bagger and a floor scrubber, have no business buying a $400,000 house.
No comprende.
Actually, that would be “No comprendo”. “No comprende” means “s/he doen’t comprehend”
Where do you get off making the assumption that the guy bags groceries?
Could be the manager
Could be the pharmacist
Could be the financial manager or merchandise buyer
All kinds of jobs in that type of business that pay more than $8-12 an hour.
Also, did you ever consider that while the wife’s job is cleaning houses that she just might have a business with employees? I know someone like that here in town - and based upon the earnings from her cleaning business (with its 30 US citizne/English-speaking/native-born employees), she could pay cash for a $500,000 house. (We have a lot of very lazy 2nd homeowners and those who rent out houses to tourists.)
Sometimes the class snobbery on thisboard gets to be a little much. Does it make you all feel beter to insult people jsut because of the industry in which they work eventhough you have no idea of what job they do in that industry and could easily make more than you?
I hear what you’re saying about snobbery, but in all fairness, they’re the ones who cited their occupations as the reason they couldn’t afford to accept less for their current house. That does beg the question of why they think their occupations shouldn’t bar them from moving to a more expensive house–either they can afford it or they can’t, and it sounds like they can’t.
Not to horn in on your argument, but here’s some info that might help. Average base salary of a pharmacist in Worcester, MA is ~102K according to some salary matching site. Worcester is near Uxbridge and Uxbridge is smaller. I don’t know what that does to the base. Don’t know about the house cleaner, but I have a feeling that if she had employees the article would have stated that. Then again, we all know the non-existent diligence of the MSM. Also, I would think that the guy would’ve said that he was a pharmacist or an executive rather than “works in a grocery store”. Then again, that could be the reporter.
So conceivably they could be over the ~133K or 3X gross income that they would need to afford historically their new home depending on the down payment. I have a feeling that they aren’t, but that’s just like, my opinion, man.
MrBubble
Gee, do we need more detail in MSM or just common sense?
If you are a manager, would you say you work in a store? If you are Donald Trump, you tell people you are working in the RE industry? Does cleaning service owners with sizeable operation say they clean houses? They probably don’t even get out of their office.
Judy Leonelli, owner of Century 21 in Mendon, said a lot of good properties are sitting because potential buyers are nervous or waiting for prices to drop further.”
—————————————————————–
What makes them “good” properties? Does ‘fairly priced’ enter into the equation?
Now go look for your magic dog whistle.
And if your dog is like some that my family has owned, it will just cock its head to one side and stay planted where it is. (So much for coming when called. Our dogs come to you when they decide that it’s in their best interest.)
We have one dog like that. My other dog (a German Shepherd), however, will always come when called.
(So much for coming when called. Our dogs come to you when they decide that it’s in their best interest.)
We call these “cats” where I come from.
You’ve obviously never had dachshunds.
Nah–I’m a crazy cat lady, only with one cat and a husband. I’m just very familiar with pets who come when they’re good and ready, and not a moment before!
A down market is a good thing, prices going down will enable people to start buying again, I do feel sorry for those that got in to the game a little too late.
Also keep in mind we don’t have a mortgage crisis in American, we have a “sub-prime” mortgage crisis.
HS
I thought we had people guarding the perimeter..
Sometimes they are too funny to pass up.
hmm.. scrawny lookin little thing.. hardly worth the effort to gut and skin it..
You mean that was not a joke?
Someone should get this guy to invest in some of the Alt-A loans… his blog will go from “our debt” to “their #$%@! debt” in a hurry!
joey,
Show them no mercy.
Ben too funny.
Are you being serious? Or are you just being facetious?
Ah.. just clicked your link. Well, ahem… carry on then.
The “whistle” that buyers are waiting for are 2003 prices. That will peak their interests!