March 19, 2008

Buyers Are In The Driver’s Seat Now And They Know It

The Toledo Blade reports from Ohio. “For the past four months, the Sylvania Township residents Paul and Nannette Dillon have been separated by 135 miles and a sluggish real estate market where unsold houses continue to pile up. She and the children live on Jamesford Drive in the family’s $240,000 house. Her husband, a corporate executive in supply chain management, lives in a rented room near his new job in Akron.”

“‘It’s awful for a family to have to be separated because of the housing market,’ complained Nannette, an upbeat mother of four young children who has made a full-time occupation of helping her real estate agent try to sell the family’s immaculate Tudor-style residence.”

“And the Dillons’ predicament is not unique. The region’s weak economy and glut of unsold homes have conspired to create a situation where the lives of many families have become a tale of two cities.”

“‘A lot of people are doing what the Dillons are doing - living in two residences,’ said Gail Zeisloft, a consultant with (a) Toledo human resources consulting firm. ‘There are quite a few people who are in that boat or about to face it.’”

“She passed the phone to an administrative assistant, whose husband is settling into a new job in North Carolina while his wife stays in Springfield Township awaiting the sale of their $215,000 house purchased just a year ago.”

“‘It’s nerve wracking,’ confessed Tina Carmichael. ‘He’s under a lot of stress with his new job. When you’re with someone everyday, you feel you have someone on whom you can unburden that stress load. Even though we talk and e-mail everyday, it’s not the same.’”

“Part of the problem, said Christopher Bloezel, a consultant with Runzheimer International in Rochester, Wis., is that fewer firms are buying houses from transferred employees because of difficulty re-selling them. Firms that continue the practice are often being forced to hold the homes for up to seven months while paying for upkeep and improvement costs that can approach $10,000 a month, he said.”

“In the two months their home has been for sale, they’ve had 10 lookers and one offer. ‘It was ridiculous - like $50,000 less than we were asking,’ Ms. Carmichael said.”

The Columbus Dispatch from Ohio. “Sale prices of central Ohio homes are the lowest in four years, averaging $152,790, according to the Columbus Board of Realtors. And January sales in central Ohio — 1,225 — were the fewest in that month in five years, even though more houses were on the market (16,402) than in any other January on record.”

“Especially vexing for the industry is the prolonged nature of the slump. Key housing indicators — number of homes sold, average price obtained and number of days a home is listed — began slipping in central Ohio about two years ago.”

“‘There’s a big selection, as opposed to a few years ago, when people were bidding on fewer houses,’ said Cindy Windsor, former president of the Columbus Mortgage Bankers Association.”

“In those days, bidding wars often erupted. Not so now, said Gary Parsons, president-elect of the Columbus Board of Realtors.”

“At builder Sovereign Homes, sales were off by 35 percent to 40 percent last year, VP Ron Casteel said. Fellow builder Duffy Homes has seen business tail off, as have all other builders.”

“‘One of the things we’re doing in some of our communities, we’ve rolled back the prices to what the community started at,’ said Rich Danko, VP of sales and marketing at Duffy. For instance, the company is offering $40,000 off completed homes in its Meadows at Harvest Wind development in Westerville.”

The Daily Tribune from Michigan. “Now might be the best time in nearly three decades to buy a new or used home or condominium in Oakland County.”

“‘It’s a great time to buy based upon the declining market and the number of foreclosures,’ said Steven Mansour, senior loan officer at the Chase Bank branch in Royal Oak. ‘Within the last two year the values dropped so it makes sense for first-time home buyers to buy in Oakland County.’”

“There’s no doubt home values have dropped sharply, Realtor Peter Schump of Prudential Cranbrook Realtors in Franklin said. ‘Some of the homes in Oakland County have been on the market for nine or 10 months,’ he said.”

“Schump said some homes that have been unsold for two or three years are being auctioned. In some cases, there’s no minimum bid required for sale. ‘There was a home on Haverhill in the city of Bloomfield (Hills), near Cranbrook, that was auctioned in December for roughly $1.8 million that was listed for $2.3 million,’ said Schump.”

“‘I guess the motivation by the owner was just to get rid of it,’ he added.”

“Other auctions have involved foreclosures, which hit a record of 7,643 in Oakland County last year, up more than tenfold from 715 in 1998.”

“In Oakland County, new and used home and condominium sales have fallen 60.9 percent since 1999, when the peak hit 33,516 sales, according to statistics.”

“In January alone in Oakland County, sales fell to 813 from 1,117 in January 2007, a 27 percent decline. Wayne County has seen home sales decline 36.5 percent since 2004, while Macomb County sales have fallen 51.8 percent, records show.”

“At the end of January, there were 18,673 residential and condominium listings on the market in Oakland County, said Fran Green, marketing manager of Realcomp. ‘There’s a glut on the market,’ Green said.”

“The median sales price for a residential property at the end of January was $145,000, down 19.8 percent from the median price of $180,750 in January 2007, she said.”

“Rebecca said her husband was transferred to a job in Fraser at an automotive supplier and has to drive 96 miles to and from work each day. The brick home, with a walkout finished lower level, has a living room, recreation room, five bedrooms, three full bathrooms, a dining room/kitchen area, first-floor laundry room and two-car garage. The couple is asking $187,000.”

“‘I am optimistic,; Rebecca said. ‘I’m hoping once the weather gets nicer a lot of people will get out and look at houses. We’re also using the same Realtor we used when we bought our home in August 2006.’”

“But, so far, the young couple with a 4-month-old daughter haven’t had any luck. ‘We love our house, and we’re not opposed to staying in it for a while if we have to. We didn’t know my husband would get another job in the next county over,’ she said.”

The News Review from Michigan. “At first glance, the paperwork proliferating on an Emmet County Building bulletin board might seem mundane. But it hints at a trying process that growing numbers of Northern Michigan homeowners have been facing: foreclosure.”

“A decade ago, the foreclosure sales announced in legal notices like these tended to be a once-a-month occurrence — perhaps even less frequent — in many counties across the region. But lately, several officials who process foreclosures after homeowners default on their loans say it hasn’t been unusual for a handful of properties to go up for bids each week.”

“‘This is the worst I’ve ever seen,’ said Charlevoix County register of deeds Charlene Novotny. ‘When I started working here 30 years ago, there was maybe one a year.’”

“‘There’s probably fault on both sides,’ Charlevoix County undersheriff Don Schneider said. ‘People are going over their heads in debt, and those mortgage companies have been too free to give them money.’”

“When examining yearly foreclosure sale tallies for seven Northern Michigan counties — Antrim, Charlevoix, Cheboygan, Crawford, Emmet, Montmorency and Otsego — all but one showed increases greater than 60 percent between 2005 and 2007. Among these counties, Emmet’s 2007 total showed the sharpest increase — 230 percent — from the tally two years earlier.”

“In Emmet County, Sheriff Pete Wallin said recent foreclosures have involved ‘mostly mortgages that have been taken out in the last three to four years.’”

“In Charlevoix County, undersheriff Schneider said recent foreclosures in Charlevoix County have affected homes with values ranging from less than $100,000 up to $1 million. ‘It pretty much is right across the scale,’ he said.”

The Herald News from Illinois. “With national fears of a recession and the growing foreclosure rate, real estate professionals assured potential buyers of the housing market’s vitality during a home-buying seminar Saturday at The Herald News.”

“‘It truly is a good time to buy,’ said Jim Karges, president of Karges Realty. ‘There are many houses for sale right now. The supply is great. The buyers have all the control.’”

“Chris Kauzlaric, of Channahon, is considering buying his first home and came to the seminar looking for ‘a holistic perspective.’ ‘I’m pretty infantile in my stages of understanding the market,’ he said. ‘It’s nice to have an expert in each one of the sectors.’”

“While geared toward first-time buyers, the seminar also addressed concerns of current homeowners. For buyers with a home to sell, Karges said mortgage rates should dictate whether it’s a good time to buy.”

“‘It’s a wash,’ he said. ‘You’re buying for less and selling for less so look at interest rates.’”

The Chicago Tribune from Illinois. “Home inventories are upand appreciation ain’t what it used to be. That has sellers worried as real estate shifts further into a buyer’s market.”

“‘Buyers are in the driver’s seat now and they know it,’ said Jim Merrion, regional director for ReMax. ‘They are driving hard bargains and getting what they want. They are asking for contracts contingent on selling their old houses. A few years ago, sellers wouldn’t take these, but they do now. Buyers are not shy about asking for all kinds of throw-ins. I’ve seen them ask for — and get — patio sets, outdoor grills, new appliances, furnaces, home warranties.’”

“When Jim Weinberg and his wife, Julie, bought their Glenview house in October, they got the seller to throw in a plasma TV and surround-sound stereo. But best of all, said Weinberg, they got the home at a rock-bottom price. Their week-long negotiation that brought a $160,000 price reduction.”

“‘When the market recovers, the house will appreciate,’ Weinberg added.”

“‘Buyers are relaxed and patient because they know they have the edge,’ said Jeff Kropp, broker in Chicago. ‘If their needs aren’t met, they walk.’”

“Their needs, he agrees, go way beyond price.”

“‘Getting through inspections are the most difficult part of negotiations now,’ said Charlie Vernon, real estate broker in Evanston. ‘The buyer needs to realize that the seller has lived with these problems and hasn’t seen the need to fix them. And the seller needs to realize that fewer buyers are willing to remodel kitchens or spend weekends painting. … So, in the end, the inspection points all come down to dollars.’”

“Thanks to larger inventories of homes for sale, buyers have more choices, said Rick Hauser, Realtor in Hawthorn Woods — and that includes the homes in foreclosure.”

“‘Used to be, just rehabbers wanted these bank-owned houses,’ said Kropp. ‘But now buyers are looking at these diamonds in the rough, which are even lower-priced than other properties. Often, all they need is cosmetic changes or new appliances.’”

“‘As a seller, you have to give a little or even a lot,’ said Vernon. As a seller’s agent, Vernon said he talks to the the seller on price, based on what he believes the house will sell for.”

“‘Never mind what your neighbor sold his house for a few years ago,’ said Vernon. ‘You have to look at very recent comps. And the buyer doesn’t care if you are highly mortgaged because you took out a home-equity loan to take a vacation. The buyer doesn’t owe you that.’”

“Vernon said some sellers still aren’t willing to budge from prices they believe their houses are worth. ‘Then, the house is theirs to keep, and that’s their right,’ said Vernon.”




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121 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-19 08:13:26

So let’s review; bidding wars in Ohio along with builders ‘rolling back’ prices. In Michigan, million dollar plus auctions, with one knocking it down half a million, and sales off 60% since a peak in…1999!

Why if there were crazy urban lifestyle condos, one might conclude there was a housing bubble in Michigan:

‘EAST LANSING - The city and developers of a condominium project are putting faith in the downtown housing market, despite the nationwide real estate slump. Developers for Albert Place Condominiums in downtown East Lansing have received five refundable deposits for condos in the 36-unit complex, said Douglas Cron, a developer with Stonehouse Village III LLC.’

‘Obviously we’re in difficult economic times, that’s not a secret,” said Ron Springer, community development analyst for the city. But, “the downtown condominium market is different than, say, somebody looking out in the country or on the outskirts of town,” he said.’

‘There are a number of people in the downtown market that want to live downtown, they want to be near the city amenities, they want to be within walking distance of campus, they want to be near the things that go on downtown,” he said. They don’t want to drive to these. They want to be right there.”

‘The five-story residential complex will offer studio condos and one- to three-bedroom units, ranging from 500 square feet to 1,800 square feet, Cron said. The fifth floor includes six two-story rooftop penthouses with terraces. ‘Prices will begin in the low $100,000s and go up to about $250,000, he said. Units come with several amenities, Cron said, including granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, special kitchen lighting, oversized windows and 10-foot ceilings.’

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-03-19 08:39:07

“They don’t want to drive to these.”

Over and over again we hear this with regard to urban condos - yet the truth is quite another matter. They play that tune here in Chicago, but the reality is that our roads are choked with the cars of these condo buyers. The new urbanist fantasy is just that - a fantasy. Sure, they might buy the condos but they bring their cars with them.

In terms of sustainability and wastesfulness what is the real difference between an exurban resident covering 30 miles in 30 minutes in a pick up and a yuppie covering 5 miles in 30 minutes in crossover SUV?

Comment by AdamCO
2008-03-19 09:41:46

it’s a whole lot more cost effective for a municipality to provide services to 10,000 residents living in one square mile than to 10,000 residents living in fifteen square miles.

this is why our exurbs are bankrupt.

sustainability: 30 minutes in urban traffic would burn less gas than 30 minutes of highway driving. far fewer roads mean less destruction of the environment and more opportunities for trout fishing.

truth is though, even in Cincinnati, hardly an urban mecca, those of us who lived in the urban core had 2 miles commutes and drove maybe half the time, took the bus the other half.

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:02:52

Gee, if it was only 2 miles, why not just go for a short walk? When I relocate to a town in NW PA, ill be walking distance to any store within town and take the bus to nearby towns!

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-03-19 10:36:16

You walk 2 miles in a Chicago winter. I’m driving or taking the bus.

Lived in Chicago for 8 years. Agreed on driving half the time, bus the other half.

 
Comment by Hazard
2008-03-19 11:17:54

Isn’t that the truth. I was transferred to Chicago (from the sunny south), lived there for 3 years. The winters can be brutal. A couple of times my car died and I had to walk. A foot of snow and more coming down - sidewalks? forget it they hadn’t been cleared, ah walking with that wind blowing now that is something to experience the snow felt like ice picks, temps of 32 sometimes seemed like a heat wave. And there is nothing like missing a day of snow removal and having to chop blocks of ice to get down the drive way to the street.

Bye, the rural areas don’t always have hourly bus service. Nor taxi service either. You are moving to another world from Fla, I bet you don’t last.

 
Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 11:50:48

I can’t speak for Chicago but in NW Pennsylvania, Janurary average temperatures are 34 high, 16 low. I don’t have to go shopping everyday, ill wait a week for a nice partially cloudy 35+ degree day with no rain/snow/wind. Chicago’s winters are colder than NW PA

 
Comment by ghostwriter
2008-03-19 19:03:06

Bye, if you want acreage you’re not going to be near any stores. Plus most towns have no bus service. You’re going to have to drive. Also it’s tough walking up and down those winding mountain roads. Average may be 34 degrees, but this winter was a killer. Chill factors way below zero for quite a few days and eastern Ohio and western Pa beat all the records for snowfall going back to 1943. It was brutal. I know you work from home, so plan on being penned up a lot.

 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2008-03-19 10:45:04

“30 minutes in urban traffic would burn less gas than 30 minutes of highway driving.”

Not true at all. Stop and go traffic is KILLER on gas consumption. Most of the energy is used to get up to speed, and then wasted as heat (and brake lining pollutants) when you stop. Maintaining cruising speed (within limits) is much easier on the “minutes per gallon” scale.

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Comment by finnman69
2008-03-19 11:48:33

the MPG of NYC taxicabs is atrocious

 
Comment by AdamCO
2008-03-19 12:44:48

in cincinnati i’d get about 17mpg in the city compared to about 28mpg on the freeway. chicago and new york are probably a different story though.

otoh, find me an ‘exurb’ that is just 30 minutes from the downtown district

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-03-19 11:16:00

“…this is why our exurbs are bankrupt.”

Big city finances aren’t too hot either. And even though the overall mileage of roads may be less for denser settlement those roads take a tremendous beating and are very expensive to maintain. A great example is our Lake Shore Drive - the city will spend millions this winter just to spot patch potholes on the Drive - patches that disappear with each frost/thaw.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-03-19 11:24:04

Is it me, or do the potholes seem even worse than usual this year?

They’re mammoth, and everywhere.

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-03-19 11:35:15

Yes, even the side streets in the outer neighborhoods are absolutely terrible this year - and these are some of the lightest traveled streets in the city.

How about that sink hole on Montrose just east of Damen a while back? The infrastructure is very getting awfully frail and it is being asked to handle more traffic than ever.

The Drive is slated for resurfacing north of Irving this spring - we’ll see how that goes. The budget isn’t getting any looser.

 
Comment by Wheatie
2008-03-19 13:13:52

I think this year has been on the high side of flip flops from under 32 to over 32 and back with plenty of moisture. The flip-flopping is brutal on roads due to expanding and contracting water.

I always say I would rather have 20 degrees and sunny than 40 degrees and that overcast/rain stuff. Seems like we got both in succession for all of February.

 
 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-03-19 10:45:04

They play that tune here in Chicago, but the reality is that our roads are choked with the cars of these condo buyers. The new urbanist fantasy is just that - a fantasy. Sure, they might buy the condos but they bring their cars with them.

Some neighborhoods or locations are more successful than others in terms of the “urbanist fantasy,” of course. But the demographic of these condo buyers plays a big role, IMO.

Anecdotally, the condo buyers on my block average two vehicles per unit, while renters average one — with the same relative density, mostly couples in two and three bedrooms. The condo owners near me feel entitled to drive everywhere, even though we’re close to the El, bus routes, and some fairly navigable streets for biking (that’s always relative in the city). Even though most condo owners in my neighborhood can and do opt to buy a deeded parking space, there’s still a +1 net gain in street-parked cars … and it’s often a lumbering SUV.

It’s annoying.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2008-03-19 11:36:55

Yeah…it’s a pathetic joke around these parts, isn’t it? And then the government, ever so concerned about the greater good, holds public transportation hostage.

And then you sit in traffic at innumerable stoplights, blowing gas and going nowhere fast.

It’s like the 1970s all over again.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-03-19 08:58:42

Downtown?? East Lansing?? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Comment by fran chise
2008-03-19 09:25:51

Yup. 2 Taco Bells and a McDonalds.

 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-03-19 09:39:28

I’ll see your Lansing and raise you a Lubbock

 
Comment by TorontoGav
2008-03-19 11:54:56

I went to Michigan State for grad school and was also puzzled by the phrase ‘Downtown East Lansing’ when I read the article.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-03-19 08:18:42

“In the two months their home has been for sale, they’ve had 10 lookers and one offer. ‘It was ridiculous - like $50,000 less than we were asking,’ Ms. Carmichael said.”

Once again another person wondering around without a clue as to what is happening in the world. She will wish she had taken “ridiculous” when she gets a “crazy” offer. There are so many DA’s in each and every report.

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:08:54

Same story. If you want her house, let her have a short sale. The bank is far more willing to accept lowballs

 
Comment by MD_Renter
2008-03-19 14:26:47

I wonder how much they are asking as they just bought last year? Meanwhile, is the entire sum of Yankee-dom moving South now? Every one of these stories has someone moving to NC, SC, TN, or GA?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-19 08:24:36

“When you’re with someone everyday, you feel you have someone on whom you can unburden that stress load.”

That is quite an opening for creative bloggers to comment…

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-03-19 09:04:25

I wonder how many marriages have failed because of “unburdening stress loads” unto already stressed partners… And marriage doesn’t do well during recessions, either.

I think lawyers - both bankruptcy and divorce - are going to be the investment of the future!

Comment by hd74man
2008-03-19 09:25:29

RE: I think lawyers - both bankruptcy and divorce - are going to be the investment of the future!

Heather Mills can serve as the poster child for the divorce end of it.

 
Comment by fran chise
2008-03-19 09:28:05

Yes, but lawyers are not supposed to share fees with nonlawyers.

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-03-19 10:30:46

No problem i would be in heaven as a $100K yr law office file clerk/rainmaker…share with me please.

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Comment by manfromyard
2008-03-19 11:34:26

Yup. Just as NY Governor Spitzer in his very stressful job as Governor. His wife apparently was not around, so he decided to “unburden his load” on the bodyparts of some nice young entrepenuer.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-19 08:31:18

Or how about buying way too much house. In Michigan…in 2006!

‘Rebecca said her husband was transferred to a job in Fraser at an automotive supplier and has to drive 96 miles to and from work each day. The brick home, with a walkout finished lower level, has a living room, recreation room, five bedrooms, three full bathrooms, a dining room/kitchen area, first-floor laundry room and two-car garage.’We’re also using the same Realtor we used when we bought our home in August 2006.’

‘But, so far, the young couple with a 4-month-old daughter haven’t had any luck.’

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-03-19 08:38:23

Look at all the friends their 4 month old child can have sleep over in those extra bedrooms…..

 
Comment by Blano
2008-03-19 09:02:05

I’m guessing if he works in Fraser then maybe they live around Lansing somewhere, or north of Flint maybe. Either way, that’s a godawful drive everyday. Wonder if the daughter knows who here daddy is.

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-03-19 09:17:56

’We’re also using the same Realtor we used when we bought our home in August 2006.’ ‘But, so far, the young couple with a 4-month-old daughter haven’t had any luck.’

It looks like these people fell for the realtor hype that now is a great time to buy or the NAR advertisement that home values will double on average in ten years. People got suckered into buying during the boom and now they are being conned back into believing now is a gret time to buy.

However, these people will soon find out the truth as they lose money on the home they bought and are having problems selling. Experience is such a good teacher and a good way to lose lots of money.

Lesson learned: Never follow the advice of special interest groups who are out to drain you of your money!

 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-19 10:42:47

Only a two car Garage for a future boarding house ?

 
 
Comment by sfbayqt
2008-03-19 08:32:51

So….this is in regards to the young couple with the 4 month old and the husband who drives 96 miles to and from work every day….

Perhaps they are/were planning on having a big family, perhaps they anticipate having to accommodate Mom or Dad down the road, but I’m trying to figure out why they would need a 5 bedroom house…..and all the maintenance that comes with that. Why?

“We didn’t know my husband would get another job in the next county over.”

Really, now. And why was he looking or even considering a job in the next county? Perhaps, to finance the huge azz house that you love so much?

Sarcasm off

BayQT~

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-19 08:39:40

This is what the media can’t understand. IMO, they were speculating. More house, bigger profits. And speculation is a sign of a housing bubble, not a sign of ’strength’ as the UHS repeated.

It’s still going on:

‘When the market recovers, the house will appreciate,’ Weinberg added.’

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-19 08:55:07

I hear a lot of that wishful thinking here in Tucson.

Comment by ck
2008-03-19 09:28:52

It is undeniably true that when the market recovers the house will appreciate. That will be a market recovery.

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Comment by NOVA Renter
2008-03-19 09:48:28

I predict 2037 but I’m an optomist.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-03-19 09:58:47

when the market recovers the house will appreciate

I rather think the market is recovering now and was “sick” the past few years.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-19 10:34:02

‘It is undeniably true that when the market recovers the house will appreciate. That will be a market recovery.’

Tell that to the people in Houston that are still underwater in inflation adjusted dollars from the 80’s. Or the ‘condo slaves’ all over the state. So much for the undeniable…

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-03-19 10:40:46

“More house, bigger profits.”

I have friends in Seattle who are currently playing this bet.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-03-19 10:42:20

Oops, make it 2, 2 friends in Seattle playing this bet….hahaha…

 
 
 
Comment by AdamCO
2008-03-19 09:42:49

when the stock market goes up i will be able to sell my stock for more money.

brilliant!

 
Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:10:34

Those words are clear proof we aren’t near the bottom. As long as speculation is in mind, the market is still bubbly.

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-03-19 10:40:17

‘When the market recovers, the house will appreciate,’

Let me put this in perspective:

When the market recovers, the NASDAQ will appreciate and recover.

That was back in 2002 and it has never recovered from it’s high of 5000+.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-03-19 09:08:03

But… but… They NEED a 4,000 square foot house! It’s an Amerikan RIGHT! Where else will they store their Beamer, their HD TV’s, their mountains of shoes, etc? And the neighbors are living (in debt) so they should do the same?!

If I had $1,000 per young couple with 1, or at most 2, children (and who have made it clear that’s all they intend to have) who still go out and buy absurdly over-sized homes and then who end up crushed by the payments, maintenance, utility bills, etc. of these White Elephants, well… I’d have enough money to buy one of those same houses. But I wouldn’t want one!

Comment by SaladSD
2008-03-19 11:25:48

Have you watched the Nanny? Most of these families have junk drifts in every room. That’s why they’re always complaining they need a bigger house.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-03-19 14:06:49

Junk drifts? LOL

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Comment by slb
2008-03-19 08:33:17

From Market Watch ” The office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said it is reducing Fannie Mae’s and Freddie Mac’s capital surplus requirement to 20% from 30%….
“Wednesdays move…should enable the two companies to buy or guarantee about 2 trillion in mortgages this year.”

 
Comment by sfbayqt
2008-03-19 08:34:56

Big V!

Count me in on the HBB party this Saturday. I don’t live that far away. I’ll bring a camera so we can post the pic in Ben’s photo gallery.

BayQT~

 
Comment by BuyerWill EPB
2008-03-19 08:37:50

This sentence needs a slight correction.

“‘It’s awful for a family to have to be separated because of the housing market our own d@mn greedy need to rip off the next greater fool,’ complained Nannette’

Comment by Blano
2008-03-19 09:05:32

If she’s so busy helping the agent sell the house, I wonder if the agent is giving her back a cut of the commission. Hmmmmm…..

 
 
Comment by Neil
2008-03-19 08:39:14

“‘Buyers are relaxed and patient because they know they have the edge,’ said Jeff Kropp, broker in Chicago. ‘If their needs aren’t met, they walk.’”

“Their needs, he agrees, go way beyond price.”

“‘Getting through inspections are the most difficult part of negotiations now,’ said Charlie Vernon, real estate broker in Evanston. ‘The buyer needs to realize that the seller has lived with these problems and hasn’t seen the need to fix them. And the seller needs to realize that fewer buyers are willing to remodel kitchens or spend weekends painting. … So, in the end, the inspection points all come down to dollars.’”

They don’t get it. Its a buyers market and becoming more of one every month. I don’t care if someone could live with a problem. I don’t need to ‘realize’ anything. I bid on a house assuming its in good condition (I’m not looking for a fixer upper). If there is work that needs to be done, I’d much rather it be done prior to my move in.

Its almost like sellers cannot give up on 2005 when anything wrong was just the buyers problem. The Realtor talks about buyers walking… but doesn’t understand why. To buy at today’s prices requires a lot of financial ability; with little competition, why not be picky? Homes are priced as if they were perfect. Ok… make them perfect! Or be like me and just spectate until prices get sane again.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by GotRocks
2008-03-19 08:50:08

Darnit Neil, you beat me.

I was going to say that the buyer (now) has the right to realize anything he or she chooses to realize. Buyers are in no mood for condescending talk, they had enough of it during the bubble.

 
Comment by Chicago Bubble Blog
2008-03-19 10:14:33

Great point Neil.

The statement in the article, “The buyer needs to realize that the seller has lived with these problems and hasn’t seen the need to fix them. And the seller needs to realize that fewer buyers are willing to remodel kitchens or spend weekends painting.”, Is a truism in a more normal market where neither side has the upper hand. This isn’t a normal market.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-19 10:45:36

Then you go to Home Depot and hire a few day laborers to paint, problem solved cheapskates.

Comment by BuyerWill EPB
2008-03-19 10:59:26

You mean when ‘the seller’ goes to Home Depot and hires the day laborers to paint, no problem. Right?

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2008-03-19 12:13:58

They better not. Any time I see a recent remodel, my interest in the property drops significantly. I know they’ve padded the price for 2-3x the cost of the cheap ass crap they installed using 6 dudes from the Home Depot parking lot. None of it was permitted, so it’s all trash.

 
Comment by Kandy Kane-DelMoir
2008-03-19 15:41:55

Plus it is extremely hard to look at what most people think is an “upgrade.” I want some little Florida shack built in the 30s or before, pre-ruination. Unfortunately most of everything that looks okay from the outside is fast becoming post-ruination on the inside. They all have had their kitchens stripped and tiny useless “islands” installed. If they’ve still got their oak floors the owner has coated them in a couple inches of polyurethane so that the whole place smells like incipient brain cancer. Plus they’ve busted up the gorgeous little black and white hexagonal tiles in the bathroom and put down Tuscan Gold whatever generic “rustic” foot-square rough-surfaced crapola they bought at Lowes and laid themselves unevenly and instead of the lovely deco trim tile that isn’t made anymore and that they sledgehammered there’s “coordinating” barf-colored border tile with like wheat sheaves or some crap airbrushed into it. The finishing touch will be a retro pedestal sink they got at Lowes and not-quite installed so that it rocks on its pedestal if you happen to touch it and a couple of brass-look Fauxtique(R) wall sconce lights with some trailer art stylized flower spray etched into the shades and basically the whole place looks like if Applebees decorated it under the wise guidance of Christopher Lowell (no offense to Christopher Lowell; I loved his show, but I wouldn’t want him as a decorator and apparantly everybody in Florida thinks he is the apex).

 
Comment by chicagorefugee
2008-03-19 22:59:23

The Old House Journal term for what you describe is remuddling.

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-03-19 10:57:22

fewer buyers are willing to remodel kitchens or spend weekends painting

On the other hand, I would choose my own kitchen remodel than have the seller put in a Home Despot Special that I felt stuck with. As long as everything is functional, I can live with an older kitchen until I get the gumption remodel to what I like.

Comment by SaladSD
2008-03-19 11:28:49

Totally agree. I’d resent paying for some crappy vanilla “update”, I’d rather it be a fixer so I could put in what I want, with a modicum of taste (and originality).

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Comment by aimeejd
2008-03-19 11:54:54

Exactly. I doubt if the problem is that people want the seller’s tired granite-and-SS treatment; it’s that they want the seller to reduce the price in acknowledgment of the fact that certain fixes need to be done, and sellers have neither done the fixes nor lowered their prices. This is all that anybody needs to “realize.”

 
Comment by PontiacMI
2008-03-19 12:48:37

Granite appliances & stainless steel counters for everyone

 
Comment by Kandy Kane-DelMoir
2008-03-19 15:43:32

That would be really cool! I want a granite trash compactor!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2008-03-19 08:51:39

‘It was ridiculous - like $50,000 less than we were asking,’

The media should interview more buyers:

“It was ridiculous - they wanted $50,000 more than we were offering.” The potential buyers then went on to say “we’ve worked hard to save for a down payment, and we aren’t going to ‘just give it away’”.

Comment by GH
2008-03-19 08:56:28

The buyer will be glad the ofer was not accepted. Sellers are asking way over what their homes are worth, based on a short term spike in home values driven by speculation, fraud and greed. Ignore the spike and add 5% or so a year to 1999 valuation and you are in the ballpark.

Comment by CincyDad
2008-03-19 09:17:14

I Toledo, Ohio ????

Start with 1999 valuations and add 0% appreciation. The economy of Toledo is tied to that of Detroit’s. The auto industry drives the city. Toledo has had a declining economy, and a declining population, for well over a decade.

 
Comment by Laurie
2008-03-19 09:39:20

I Like this..may have to be less than 5% in some areas with decreasing population. Here in Northern NJ so much of our housing value is linked to rail and bus lines to Manhattan that you can see other variables do factor in. Yesterday there seemed to be fewer cars on Rt4 home from Wall Street..hhmmnn. Bear Stearns having an immmediate impact??

Comment by aimeejd
2008-03-19 11:50:48

I’m in Bergen County and I work in Times Sq., so I bus it to the Port Authority every day. I haven’t noticed much drop-off there yet, even though it is Morgan Stanley territory–still plenty of tourists picking up the slack maybe?

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Comment by Horsefly
2008-03-19 13:09:26

A 5% increase compounded yearly turns out be a 47% to 55% increase (depending on which time period in 1999 you are talking about). That would mean a $100k house in 99 costs $147k in 08.

5% sounds way too high. What are the historical norms?

 
 
Comment by Lionel
2008-03-19 10:31:22

“…and we aren’t going to ‘just give it away’”.”

I recently saw a story about a couple who are selling a mastodon skeleton on ebay. The couple stated that they wouldn’t go below 85K, saying that “they wouldn’t just give it away.” Maybe they should hire an out of work realtor to sell it.

This is the actual listing…

http://tinyurl.com/2v7yfn

Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-19 10:48:39

And they’ve stubbornly been trying to sell that thing for years now at their wishing price when they’ve been repeatedly told NO museum in the world is going to pay that much and neither is a private collector.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2008-03-19 11:07:52

A manditory DNA animal species check up and disclosure should be REQUIRED for all these RE agents, Lenders and Sellers.

The primates in this RE market circus are STILL acting by the “Planet of the Apes” rules and it’s only fair that any RARE potental buyers DESERVE to know that they ARE DEALING with Certified Homo Sapiens in the largest finacial business transaction of their lives :)

 
Comment by rusty
2008-03-19 11:28:09

that is perfect!

 
Comment by Eudemon
2008-03-19 11:49:31

Very nicely said, arroyogrande. Thanks.

 
 
Comment by arroyogrande
2008-03-19 08:55:48

“recreation room, five bedrooms…But, so far, the young couple with a 4-month-old daughter ”

Ah, living large…well, as long as they are happy with the husband’s commute, to each his/her own.

Comment by michael
2008-03-19 09:20:42

lol…she doenst give a shit about her husbands commute.

she got her NEST BABY!!!!!

and it’s bigger and better than any of her friends.

Comment by hd74man
2008-03-19 09:29:33

RE: she got her NEST BABY!!!!!

and it’s bigger and better than any of her friends.

Testify, brother Mike!

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:13:02

No wife for me!

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Comment by GH
2008-03-19 09:01:11

“Vernon said some sellers still aren’t willing to budge from prices they believe their houses are worth. ‘Then, the house is theirs to keep, and that’s their right,’ said Vernon.”

A little truth here from a real estate broker? This of course separates those who must sell from those who don’t…

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:16:50

Exactly! If a seller won’t price to sell, just move on to the next house. Ill be doing just that when I buy a house.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-03-19 09:11:48

The house is theirs to keep until the option ARM, toxic loan, liar loan, etc. resets/recasts and they lose the house to the bank.

That’s the path we’ll be seeing: most people do not just “consider selling their house” unless they NEED to do so. Only the very rich - with multiple homes - can afford to speculate in such nonsense. Most folks cannot afford to do so, the past 7+ years being an exception. Now, comes the storm, and I bet these people who are “testing the waters” will be creamed by the tidal wave.

Comment by Climber
2008-03-19 09:39:57

Not true. I’m going to be listing our house this spring. We don’t need to sell. We’ve got a 4.75% 15 year loan and we’re paying less than rent would cost. Don’t tell me how our 50% equity could be getting interest, because Bernanke is doing his best to turn my savings (and yours too) into toilet paper.

In spite of the crap in the news I think it’s a good time to sell. The peak is clearly past, but prices have yet to adjust meaningfully. It’s clearly still a poor time to buy. Kind of like moving into one of the first houses left vacant by the plague. You’d be best off waiting for the last of the corpses to be hauled out rather than chasing the first ones.

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:18:39

You could trade in your dollars for a different currency and save/invest that money. Inflation is much lower in other countries.

Even getting 5% interest(plus keeping your principle) beats seeing your equity evaporate into thin air. My parent’s equity is half gone by now, wish they sold.

 
Comment by arroyogrande
2008-03-19 10:51:23

“I think it’s a good time to sell”

I’d have to agree with you…as long as you have equity and aren’t under water. Many (most?) people that bought within the last 3-4 years don’t have the luxury. They “bought high”.

Comment by Climber
2008-03-19 16:19:18

I bought in 2001, and I over paid - my market hasn’t gone up much since then either. But, I put down a lot of money, have paid down a whole bunch of principal and have loads of $$ in the bank. Even if I had to bring cash to the table it would still not change the facts of the market.

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Comment by GH
2008-03-19 09:12:38

awaiting the sale of their $215,000 house purchased just a year ago

correction :
awaiting the sale of their $115,000 house purchased just a year ago for $215,000.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-03-19 09:20:18

RE: “‘It’s awful for a family to have to be separated because of the housing market,’ complained Nannette, an upbeat mother of four young children who has made a full-time occupation of helping her real estate agent try to sell the family’s immaculate Tudor-style residence.”

Instant Mobility-the new “American Dream”

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2008-03-19 09:21:00

The Toledo Blade reports from Ohio. “For the past four months, the Sylvania Township residents Paul and Nannette Dillon have been separated by 135 miles and a sluggish real estate market where unsold houses continue to pile up. Her husband, a corporate executive in supply chain management, lives in a rented room near his new job in Akron.”

Woopie do. What about all those service members on tours of duty that don’t get to drive home every weekend? There are a ton of people who, for whatever economic reasons, don’t get to see their spouse every day.

Comment by fran chise
2008-03-19 09:34:22

And some that wish they didn’t.

 
 
Comment by Crazed Opossum
2008-03-19 09:37:41

That Charlie Vernon seems to be a smart and honest RE agent. I loved this:

And the buyer doesn’t care if you are highly mortgaged because you took out a home-equity loan to take a vacation. The buyer doesn’t owe you that.’”

“Vernon said some sellers still aren’t willing to budge from prices they believe their houses are worth. ‘Then, the house is theirs to keep, and that’s their right,’ said Vernon.”

I bet his customers hate him. LOL…

Comment by bluprint
2008-03-19 09:53:25

close tag

Comment by bluprint
2008-03-19 09:55:12

two open tags?

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-03-19 10:49:29

Good job saving downthread from The Boldies.

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Comment by GH
2008-03-19 13:16:27

Could be worse perhaps an open strike tag?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:00:48

““In the two months their home has been for sale, they’ve had 10 lookers and one offer. ‘It was ridiculous - like $50,000 less than we were asking,’ Ms. Carmichael said.””

Gee, what did you pay for the house? Do you owe more than what the lowball offer was for? If yes, you will need a short sale or walk away. If that lowball offer was equal or greater than what you owed, you are really dumb and deserve to see your bogus equity evaporate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:04:22

6-12 months before house prices drop another leg? I can hardly wait! Do you think it’s realistic to see houses in north Georgia or east Tennessee going for $100k courtesty of the bank begging you to buy it? I would like something nice, 4 bed, 2-3 bath, partial or full basement, 2 car garage and 2000-2500 square feet house on at least an acre(double lot?) of land for $100k. Right now they are around $250k. Theres no jobs within 2 hours commute and it’s mostly rural hills. Great peaceful setting which is what I want. NW Pennsylvania has that and decent prices. I would like to see those prices in other locations!

For those wondering, I am self employed, work at home over the internet selling high tech physical products via online store and ebay. Many people do their business that way. It pays better than most jobs in Florida and beats dealing with mean bosses anyday! And it lets me live anywhere!

Comment by aimeejd
2008-03-19 10:16:16

What is a “high tech physical product” (if you don’t mind me asking)?

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 10:20:05

balances, scales, oscilloscopes, electronics, etc.

Comment by aimeejd
2008-03-19 10:37:13

Oh, okay–thanks for responding, and congrats on your success!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-19 11:36:38

There’s good money in that equipment. (My dad is a researcher — his lab is full of such “toys.”)

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-03-19 11:10:31

Well now wait a minute, Bye FL. Just upthread you were voicing agreement that you didn’t want a wife, and berating the woman for having an oversize “nest.” And now, you say you would like

something nice, 4 bed, 2-3 bath, partial or full basement, 2 car garage and 2000-2500 square feet house on at least an acre(double lot?) of land

Unless you’re a single dad with 3 kids, it sounds like you’re hankering for a trophy nest yourself.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-03-19 14:10:16

It’s for his Beanie Baby collection. :)

 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-19 15:20:13

He needs his space ya know.

 
Comment by Kandy Kane-DelMoir
2008-03-19 15:49:05

Those oscilloscopes take up some space. I’m so glad it isn’t Amway–I’ve been really curious about the mysterious home business.

 
 
Comment by tiger
2008-03-19 11:38:00

Somewhere between around 150-200k would be what I would expect for Eastern TN. There has been a small dip in prices in Central TN or around 5%, but I see it as more of a normal part of the housing cycle compared to what is happening in CA. The cost of renting vs. buying is roughly the same. There wasn’t double digit appreciation ever, but I think there was a few extra % of appreciation that has disappeared. I don’t see a lot of foreclosures, because there aren’t nearly as many people with negative equity.

The type of house you are describing is not so much of a trophy house as it would be in CA. Acre lots and 2000 sq ft homes are are not that uncommon for older homes in middle class neighborhoods. There are a decent amount of homes closer to 1500 sq ft. Though if you are single or without kids, I don’t see the point of having a 2500 sq ft house, unless you need a couple rooms for business…one bedroom for an office and one for inventory.

Comment by Bye FL
2008-03-19 12:22:41

I need the space for my pet goldfish, my inventory(storage) and extra bedrooms for family and friends that visit. Besides when prices bottom out, there won’t be a big price difference between a small and bigger house.

It’s fine for people to buy a bigger house, just as long as the price is not a bubbly price.

tiger,

You and most others don’t feel that prices will drop much in the southeast except Florida. It’s just hard for me to get used to the fact that Florida is going to be cheaper than the southeast. Zillow does confirm Florida was cheaper before the bubble. During the bubble, Florida became so expensive! Lots of people left Florida for other southeast states. I wonder if those people will move back to Florida when it’s cheaper than the states they moved to!

One bank is selling a 2006 sf 4/3/2 nice house on .25 acres in central east Florida for $137.5k or $68.5/foot. The same house as you say would cost $150k or $75/foot in east Tennessee. Seeing we are not at the bottom yet in Florida and people say to expect $50/foot for Florida, this must mean east Tennessee is more desirable than Florida and the only reason Florida became more expensive is there were alot more speculators than other states.

My dad still thinks everyone wants to be in Florida, but id rather be in other states. I would choose east TN over Florida for the same price because I love the hills and 4 seasons and taxes+insurance are lower in TN.

But I might just stay in Pennsylvania forever because I can get a house for $30/foot, the other locations simply aren’t worth the huge 2-3x premium. The only thing I might not like about NW PA is the occasional cold winter days, but global warming will take care of that, it won’t be so cold 20 years from now.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-03-19 13:26:34

Obviously, not even everyone in your dad’s house wants to be in Florida!

The PA High Plateau is a great place for your apple orchard. Won’t be so great if you do away with winter though.

A 2500 sq.ft. house will always be more expensive than a 1200 sq.ft. house of the same quality and location, not just in price, but in maintenance, insurance and taxes.

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Comment by uptown
2008-03-19 12:50:14

Great time to buy the land you want, and have your dream home built. Take advantage of the out of work builders and lower wood prices. You can either put a nice trailer on it to live in, or have the garage built first with a MIL unit built on top.

 
 
Comment by potential buyer
2008-03-19 10:38:08

“Mortgage lenders to pump $200 billion into markets”.
Question to all — what do you think will be the impact”?

For me, emotionally I’m sick and tired of them trying to prop up artificially inflated prices.

Comment by Climber
2008-03-19 10:42:28

“Mortgage lenders to pump $200 billion into markets”.
Question to all — what do you think will be the impact”?

Kind of like a bilge pump on the Titanic.

 
 
Comment by stanislaw
2008-03-19 11:48:33

Stand by for the 3 PM PPT spike, I’m betting on a 100 point spike up the afternoon. Cheers…

Comment by stanislaw
2008-03-19 12:31:11

Looks like the 3PM PPT boyz ran out of Cialis…

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-03-19 13:12:35

Erased three quarters of yesterday’s gains, but perhaps this CNBC headline could have foretold today’s action:

“As Interest Rates Fall, Bernanke’s Stock Rises” Talk about a jinx!

 
 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-03-19 12:00:00

OT any good lists of companies w mucho cash ?

tia

 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2008-03-19 12:06:43

“‘It was ridiculous - like $50,000 less than we were asking,’ Ms. Carmichael said.”

Since when is it ridiculous that people don’t want to buy your over-priced POS?

Comment by grumpy realist
2008-03-19 21:50:40

Also if the carrying costs are $10K/month or similar, is holding on to it hoping that you’ll get a higher price later really such a great idea?

Comment by chicagorefugee
2008-03-19 23:11:55

$10K a month for a $215K house? That would be brutal.

 
 
 
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