March 24, 2008

Another Sign Of This Delusional Situation

Some housing bubble news from Wall Street and Washington. “Existing-home sales…remain 23.8 percent below the 6.60 million-unit level in February 2007. Single-family home sales…are 22.9 percent below 5.80 million-unit level a year ago. Regionally, existing-home sales in the Northeast are 26.4 percent below February 2007. Existing-home sales in the Midwest are 19.5 percent below a year ago. In the South, existing-home sales are 22.0 percent below February 2007. Existing-home sales in the West are 29.2 percent below a year ago.”

“Total housing inventory fell 3.0 percent at the end of February to 4.03 million existing homes available for sale, which represents a 9.6-month supply at the current sales pace.”

From MarketWatch. “The median sales price plunged to $195,900, down 8.2% from a year earlier, the largest price decline recorded since the Realtors began tracking both single-family homes and condos in 1999. Prices of single-family homes fell 8.7% in the past year, also the most since the records began in 1968.”

“Sales of condos are down 29.7% in the past year. Inventories of unsold condos rose 14% to 604,000, a 13-month supply.”

From CNN Money. “The report is a sign that the price environment is weaker than the Realtors’ most recent forecasts. Though NAR chief economist Lawrence Yun said in a release that a ‘notable gain’ in existing home sales is not expected until the second half of 2008, the Realtors’ March forecast called for only a 6.3% decline in housing prices in the first quarter, compared to a year ago.”

“NAR also forecast a median price of $200,500 for the first quarter. Given the current environment, March sales would need a very strong showing, both in median prices and the pace of sales, to reach the Realtors’ forecast.”

The Associated Press. “Yun said that prices in some formerly hot markets in California and Florida were seeing significant price declines now as sellers try to attract buyers.”

“‘We’re not expecting a notable gain in existing-home sales until the second half of this year, but the (February) improvement is another sign that the market is stabilizing,’ Yun said.”

From Reuters. “Fannie Mae, the largest provider of funding for U.S. home mortgages, on Monday said its portfolio edged higher in February while delinquencies jumped in the prior month to more than a decade high.”

“Delinquencies on Fannie Mae’s single-family home financing business rose in January to 1.06 percent, the highest since at least 1997.”

National Mortgage News. “Let’s start with the funeral — no, not the Bear Stearns funeral but we’ll get to that in a minute. This past week the family of Roland Arnall laid the former subprime king to rest in Los Angeles. Attending the funeral were politicians (and former politicians) Arnold Schwarzenegger, Gray Davis, and Antonio Villaraigosa.”

“A former account executive at Argent Mortgage had this to say: ‘Some say he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing or maybe he just turned a blind eye to all the money that was flowing in, and made up for it doing deeds for the greater good of mankind. We may never know.’”

“‘But what is known is the influence he made on the political landscape and to the lives of many of his employees. I felt like I was at a political rally with the amount of politicians that came to pay their respects. You could say there wasn’t a dry eye in the place — but it wasn’t necessarily for passing of ‘The ‘Father of Subprime’ but for our own futures.’”

“The AE told us that he was recently let go by Argent’s new owners, Citigroup.”

“And now for Bear Stearns. Few in the mortgage industry were feeling sorry for the nation’s fourth largest investment banking firm. JPMorgan Chase has agreed to buy the former Wall Street titan. Whether Bear’s bridge playing chairman Jimmy Cayne can pull off a takeover more accretive to shareholders is another matter.”

“This is what one mortgage industry veteran had to say: ‘They started this whole thing with EPDs (early payment default) buybacks. They started a liquidity crisis for lenders and now they’re having a liquidity crisis of their own.’”

“In early 2006 National Mortgage News printed a story about Acoustic Home Loans being shut down because of EPDs and buybacks. Back then we put the story on our front page but not one major newspaper picked it up. Acoustic was the first of many to go under. The investment banker that forced Acoustic to go bust was none other than Bear Stearns.”

The Sault Star. “Is the U.S.-style housing meltdown in Canada’s future? With more and more Canadians taking on record levels of debt to enter the red hot housing market, analysts have begun to see some of the practices that led to the U.S. housing crash last year developing in Canada.”

“The Canadian housing market has seen the price of homes rise between nine and 11 per cent annually for several years. But as last week’s Royal Bank report showing the cost of owning a home in Canada at the highest level since 1990 suggests, it wouldn’t take much of a downturn in the economy for sky-high house prices in Canada to come tumbling down, and the wealth many Canadians had built into their homes vanish.”

“‘Definitely the fundamentals are not great. There are a lot of families who are stretched,” said Roger Sauve, a consultant who last month wrote a report on Canadians’ finances. ”

“The study found that debt had risen to 131 per cent of household income, or $80,000 per household, from 91 per cent in 1990.”

“‘Just like in the U.S., everybody is feeling good right now. They are taking on debt, but they are not worried because the prices of their homes are going up. But it would be easy to see house prices going down five or 10 per cent,’ he said.”

“Liberal MP Garth Turner, a business journalist and author whose recent book ‘Greater Fool: The Troubled Future of Real Estate,’ is among the most pessimistic forecasters of Canada’s housing market.”

“‘We’ve got this delusional situation where the American housing market is going through the worst crisis since the 1930s and we think we’ll continue to buy houses from each other for more and more money,’ Turner said.”

“With 83 per cent of Canadian’s net worth tied to real estate, even such modest reductions could spell disaster for many, he said. ‘We have so many people buying real estate with basically no equity, that even if real-estate flatlines or go down a little bit, that’s a pretty serious situation for them,’ Turner said.”

The Nelson Mail from New Zealand. “A Fairfax Media home affordability report released on Thursday showed the Nelson-Marlborough region had one of the country’s worst rates of home affordability - with 91.9 percent of one median income needed to pay the mortgage on a median priced house purchased in February. The national average is 80.2 of the median income.”

“Nelson Property Investors Association secretary and property manager Glenn Morris said the high interest rates meant some property investors were ‘bleeding to death.’”

“He knew of one client who had to refix an existing mortgage at higher interest rates, and the additional cost meant his income dropped by $100,000. ‘That’s enormous. There must be thousands and thousands of people in that position.’”

“Quotable Valuations spokesman Blue Hancock said anecdotal evidence suggested some investors who had been relying on a property for capital gain, rather than income, were putting their houses on the market. ‘They are trying to lessen what they have got to put in out of their pocket,’ he said.”

“Property investors were being hit hard in the pocket and by the Government. ‘There are some people looking very seriously at why they are being property investors,’ Morris said.”

“It was possible more investors would be selling their properties because they could not afford the added interest costs, he said. ‘Obviously for every seller there is a buyer, we hope.’”

The Guardian. “Home sellers pushed up asking prices for property last month, despite a significant slowdown in the housing market and a lending squeeze by the major banks, according to figures compiled by online estate agents Rightmove.”

“Rightmove said sellers were deluding themselves that buyers were prepared to pay high prices at a time of heightened anxiety. It said sellers were ‘ignoring market reality’ when the credit crunch was already cutting deep into the number of sales and consistently dragging down sale prices.”

“Evidence that Britain’s housing market is heading for a prolonged slowdown has been piling up for months. The snapshot of the market from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors last week showed a near-record number of surveyors reporting falling prices and the most unsold properties for 10 years.”

“Miles Shipside, commercial director of Rightmove, said: ‘Most sellers seem to be ignoring the increased competition from unsold properties and the challenge buyers now face in obtaining a mortgage. Sellers should price below their competition to achieve more interest now and avoid a larger price drop later in the year.’”

From Bloomberg. “The average asking price climbed 0.8 percent in March to 239,655 pounds ($475,000) and they rose 1.3 percent in London, Britain’s most-used property Web site said. While asking prices are less than 1 percent below their record high of 241,642 pounds reached in October last year, sales are being agreed to at around 10 percent less than that, the report said.”

“Mortgage approvals stayed close to the lowest in nine years in January, the Bank of England reported Feb. 29.”

From AFP News. “The United States should use public funds to shore up its financial system and calm recent market turmoil, Japan’s financial services minister said in an interview published Monday.”

“‘It is essential (for the US) to understand that given Japan’s lesson, public fund injection (into the financial sector) is unavoidable,’ Yoshimi Watanabe told the Financial Times.”

“Japan suffered a deep and prolonged banking crisis in the 1990s after the country’s asset bubble burst, leading to the failure of a number of high-profile financial institutions. The Japanese government injected capital to the banking sector in an effort to shore up markets and struggling financial institutions, some of which were nationalised to prevent their collapse.”

“The problems came amid Japan’s ‘lost decade’ of stagnant growth and on-off recession in the 1990s, from which the country is still recovering.”




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97 Comments »

Comment by Chip
2008-03-24 11:26:29

Does anyone here know how Canada’s oil wealth will or might affect this? I’d assume it is greater than ours, relative to the population and that the government there would be inclined to use some national wealth to bail out the FBs, rather than torpedo their currency as our own government has chosen to do.

Comment by yogurt
2008-03-24 11:56:29

Canada’s oil resources are owned by the provincial governments (primarily Alberta). As it happens the housing bust is already under way in Alberta and the government seems to have the good sense to stand back and let it happen.

Canada’s super-bubble province is BC. There is no way the rest of the country would stand for a bail-out of Canada’s Clownifornia.

There is no bubble in the French-speaking parts of the country and any national plan to bail out FB’s would meet great opposition there. This is serious business in Canada.

Canada has seen major busts in the recent past (West in 80’s, Toronto in 90’s). FB’s just had to take their lumps then and will have to this time too.

Comment by ella
2008-03-24 12:48:16

I totally agree, yogurt.

The only government intervention I could possibly see, is if there is another leaky condo crisis in Vancouver. But they didn’t do anything last time, so probably not even then.

(Was the leaky condo thing only in Vancouver?)

Comment by jrochest
2008-03-24 23:44:18

The leaky condos are only in Vancouver; they adopted California designs not suited to a climate where it rains 2/3rds of the year!

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-03-24 11:26:37

..the largest price decline recorded since the Realtors began tracking both single-family homes and condos in 1999…

If i was the King of NARland and had a virtual lock on the data, I’d stop tracking stuff.. ’cause they are just gonna get worse to the point where there’ll be no way to spin the statistics.

Comment by bicoastal
2008-03-24 11:47:48

Fortune says it’s a good time to shop for beach houses…

http://tinyurl.com/yskdpw

Do ya think?

Comment by Curt
2008-03-24 13:07:33

Here’s a nice one:

http://tinyurl.com/2v8lsl

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2008-03-24 14:07:46

My workshop is the same size as that house’s lot!

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Comment by Robin
2008-03-24 19:36:27

At first I thought it was $140,000. I was going to buy it! As a teardown, $1.4 mil for 1250 square feet of raw land (plus demolition costs) is a very high price. If global warming is real, the property as well as the new owner may soon be under water - :)

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Comment by Rintoul
2008-03-24 13:47:33

My guess would be… no.

 
 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-24 13:01:35

Our local realtors stopped posting theirs - saying they’re reformulating how it’s formatted or something…lol

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-03-24 20:48:17

I might need to take a break from this blog for little awhile. You guys are right, but I’m getting very depressed by what I read here.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-03-24 11:33:34

“Japan suffered a deep and prolonged banking crisis in the 1990s after the country’s asset bubble burst, leading to the failure of a number of high-profile financial institutions. The Japanese government injected capital to the banking sector in an effort to shore up markets and struggling financial institutions, some of which were nationalised to prevent their collapse.”

“The problems came amid Japan’s ‘lost decade’ of stagnant growth and on-off recession in the 1990s, from which the country is still recovering.”

So, do we turn Japanese

or…

Take our lumps in one lump sum of pain?

Comment by WaitingInOC
2008-03-24 11:49:23

I vote for taking our lumps in one lump sum of pain. It’s better to rip that bandage off quickly rather than pull it off slowly.

Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-03-24 13:18:35

It’s better to rip that bandage off quickly rather than pull it off slowly.

I prefer the slow painful approach as the pain will make the person think twice about what caused the injury and not do it again. No Pain, No Gain!

 
Comment by GH
2008-03-24 16:40:02

The problem with the all at once fix right now is that it would be the equivalent of allowing a massive dam to fail catastrophically and all at once. There is no doubt we will not escape the pain, the question is one of slow and controlled collapse VS massive catastrophic collapse.

Allow me to paint the all at once version :
Lacking any liquidity, virtually all credit lines are rapidly pulled, companies respond with massive layoffs and consumer spending stops almost all at once. Consumer, business and corporate debt failures escalate rapidly and one by one our banks fail. At some point, the remaining banks suffer huge runs and even the most conservative close. Business respond with every greater layoff’s and facing insurmountable shortfalls local and state governments begin to default. So it goes - the collapse of an economic empire. Are you sure you want to feel all the pain at once? We are not talking about a depression, we are talking about something much much worse.

 
 
Comment by yogurt
2008-03-24 12:03:07

“Turning Japanese” would also require racking up a big trade surplus from manufacturing and a high savings rate, like Japan.

Without these Japanese-style policies aren’t going to be possible.

Comment by Bub Diddley
2008-03-24 12:18:54

It would also involve a social safety net that blunts the most destructive effects of capitalism from hitting those lower on the economic ladder. Japan has national health care, social services, etc. The average citizen is taken care of much better than in the US, and economic downturns though still unpleasant are less disruptive to day to day lives. There is also a social cohesion and a sense of community rather than the “every man for himself and if you aren’t rich you’re a lazy idiot” vibe that permeates American political and economic discourse.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-24 12:45:12

Japan, like many of the countries in Europe, is dominated by one ethnic group. Such societies tend to have more social cohesion.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-03-24 13:58:20

One other gigantic difference between Japan & the USA…

“The United States leads the world’s richest nations in gun deaths — murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.”

“The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.”

“Japan had the lowest rate, at 0.05 gun deaths per 100,000 (1 per 2 million people). The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.”

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166

___________________________________________________

 
Comment by Skip
2008-03-24 15:52:36

I think they have us beat with suicides. Don’t forget the Kamikazes…

 
 
Comment by sevenofnine
2008-03-24 14:02:05

I, for one, do not want a nanny state. According to our Constitution, the government is to PROMOTE the general welfare, NOT PROVIDE it. We are supposed to take care of ourselves. That is part of being FREE. I believe we have a moral obligation to help our fellow man, but it is not the government’s job, nor place, to take our money from us and decide whom to redistribute it to. We should decide for ourselves what charities to support and how much to give.

I think this post,”Not Yours To Give”, from the Ron Paul website about Davy Crockett is apropos:

http://people.ronpaul2008.com/campaign-updates/2008/03/22/not-yours-to-give/

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-24 14:46:08

I for one either want a nanny state, or else children who follow the rules without oversight.

 
Comment by spike66
2008-03-24 15:22:30

sevenofnine,
Amen.

 
 
Comment by Tokyo Renter - ex LA Renter
2008-03-24 15:07:22

Japan doesn’t quite have a national health care system. In some ways it’s better, but going to a Japanese doctor is nearly like going to a witch doctor.

I’ve been to one!

If you are unemployed you still have to pay something to keep the insurance.

The safety net here in Japan is an illusion the number of working poor and homeless is skyrocketing here.

The sense of community does not exist much anymore in Tokyo or the surrounding cities. Japanese people are extremely rude to each other here in Tokyo and very much have a dog-eat-dog-I’ve-got-mine-now-you-can-fsck-off kind of attitude here.

And there even more addicted to brand goods and there are less charitable organizations to help the poor here.

Most organizations that help the poor are foreign organizations.

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Comment by Suzanne, I researched this!
2008-03-24 20:20:07

Don’t disappoint disillusioned Americans with facts. They always think the rest of the world is a paradise. When you jail dissenters and own the media, its easy to look good.

 
 
Comment by robmypro
2008-03-24 16:06:34

How can we have a social safety net when all these billionaires are sucking the wealth out of our society?

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-03-25 09:40:17

Bingo!

That’s why “saving the system” is such a waste - any dollars tossed into it will be devoured by the endless greed of the bankers, politicians, crooks, etc. They don’t want to save the system - they WANT IT ALL and won’t be happy until not only do they have way too much food, energy, etc. but until everyone else has nothing.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-24 12:24:24

I’m all for a higher savings rate. Negative savings are unsustainable…

Comment by HellBoy
2008-03-24 12:50:44

With short rates headed to 1% there is no desire to save, just consume and invest in another bubble…

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Comment by combotechie
2008-03-24 12:06:00

Here’s a guy that thinks it’ll be ’till 2013 before we start our economic climbout.

http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/BearsLairHome

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-24 12:35:13

“This is not Japan, and given the choice of a short sharp shock or 15 years of stagnation, most US voters would choose the short sharp shock.”

What say have the voters here? It looks to me as though the Fed does as the Fed chooses, above the reach of laws and the electorate’s preferences.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-03-24 12:42:26

Which means, we’ll be on the receiving end of a short sharp sticky situation…

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Comment by packman
2008-03-24 12:43:01

Exactly. Since when did the voters have any say at all in this?

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Comment by combotechie
2008-03-24 13:00:55

This voter votes to make the decline look like a mirror image of the ascent.

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Comment by sevenofnine
2008-03-24 13:51:38

I’ll second that!

 
Comment by robmypro
2008-03-24 16:09:18

The asset-owning class will do everything possible to stop assets from falling too low. Even if it means making our dollars toilet paper.

 
 
Comment by talon
2008-03-24 14:19:44

“short sharp shock”

Hmmm…. G&S fan?

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Comment by Nomansland
2008-03-25 04:38:27

Japan really turned out fine in the long run. Some suicides and a few polite homeless people,, but the world didn’t end. Japan’s plight is way over stated in my opinion. I’ve always thought they did the right thing. Not that it would turn out the same way here. The Japanese are far less corrupt than the evil crybabies here, for what it’s worth.

 
 
Comment by AUA
2008-03-24 11:35:16

I don’t understand why we would take advice from Japan on this - particularly when it sounds like they’re advising us to take the same path that decimated them.

Comment by Cinch
2008-03-24 11:44:54

‘Obviously for every seller there is a buyer, we hope.’”

Again, hope is not strategy.

Cinch

Comment by Cinch
2008-03-24 11:47:55

I’m sorry. I wanted the above post to be a separate subthread.

Cinch

 
Comment by oxide
2008-03-24 16:30:28

Obviously for every seller there is a buyer, we hope.

Only if the prices are SO low, that investors can qualify for the credit and buy multiple houses. But actual families lving in the house? I wonder.

I also wonder about the life span of these shoddy stucco boxes. What if it’s 15 years before the houseing market recovers enough to make the investment worth while? Talk about a (literally) falling asset!

 
Comment by sevenofnine
2008-03-24 17:32:03

“Hope is not strategy.”

Someone should tell that to Obama. :)

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-03-24 11:58:37

I think we need to take advice from Argentina. The Argentines know what is coming for us.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-03-24 16:34:38

Interesting that you mention the Argentines, considering that 2001 wasn’t really that long ago. Those who think the FDIC will save them, need a lesson in their currency crisis. What a lesson to study, indeed!

A 90 day bank closure and a 75% hit on the value of their savings, ouch. Let alone, the middleclass wiped out. Will ours be worse?

 
 
 
Comment by WaitingInOC
2008-03-24 11:44:51

Sounds like England and Canada will be following the US path. Just as San Diego, Florida, and other places here in the US led the way, it appears that the US is leading the way for these countries.

 
Comment by texas rules
2008-03-24 11:56:55

…we’re turning Japanese, I think we’re turning Japanese, I really think so…

Comment by laughing boy
2008-03-24 15:07:36

Great. Now I can’t get the song out of my head and have to spend the afternoon searching music sights to see if I can find it…

Comment by Pen
 
 
 
Comment by lazarus
2008-03-24 12:03:32

“But the February improvement is another sign that the market is stabilising”

Buying on hope in a bear market without an assessment of fundamental values is the same as driving a car without a fuel needle, across the Sahara desert. Mr Yun, lots of folks said the same thing about tech stocks in early 2001.

Comment by exeter
2008-03-24 12:15:24

But Yun is acknowledged to be one of the top 10 economists by USA today.

Comment by Ed G.
2008-03-24 13:00:57

So what? Analysts have been floating on a cloud since 2004. Need I remind you of Jim Cramer?. A lot of analysts are still stuck in the mindset that market and financial fundamentals don’t matter because of obsfucation of risk. When banks actually start acting like banks, and firms are held accountable for the financial instruments they write, then the economy will slowly turn around. But relying on Federal rates that would never exist in a free market, and relying on bailouts worth 10 c on the dollar, you’re not going to see any real turnaround anytime soon.

 
Comment by gascap
2008-03-24 14:27:17

Two points about this surprise 3% increase in Feb:
When market tops and volume starts dropping before prices, NAR points to price stability and brushes off volume as insignificant. One data point showing volume increase with price drop and NAR flip-flops, bottom is in. LOL

Secondly, I highly doubt their seasonal adjustment accounts for leap year. This February is 3% longer than last February, I bet that accounts for this surprise ‘pop’. What a bunch of maroons.

Comment by dannll
2008-03-24 15:30:25

No, the 3% figure is February over January…It was 24% less than last Feb. Gotta keep track of how they’re spinning things. Keep your eye on the pea under the shell at all times.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-03-24 12:05:02

The Surge is working, according to Flyover Larry…

“Yun said that prices in some formerly hot markets in California and Florida were seeing significant price declines now as sellers try to attract buyers.”

“‘We’re not expecting a notable gain in existing-home sales until the second half of this year, but the (February) improvement is another sign that the market is stabilizing,’ Yun said.”

Comment by mikey
2008-03-24 13:48:28

Thar she blows!

Another Dead Cat Bounce with the usual hot air from the Great White NAR Whale, Moby Yun :)

 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2008-03-24 13:54:05

I’m sorry, I must have missed the first sign ..

 
 
Comment by mad_tiger
2008-03-24 12:09:09

‘…the (February) improvement is another sign that the market is stabilizing,’ Yun said.

Another sign? What other signs are there?

Monthly stats bounce up and down. The last real estate slump circa ‘89-’93 did not correct in a straight line—go back and review the hot and cold headlines from that period. Neither will this one.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-24 12:37:09

As I recall from a series of LA Times articles posted here a couple of years ago, serial bottom callers kept forcasting a turnaround one year out from roughly 1990-1996. Eventually their stopped-clock prediction turned out to be right.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-03-24 16:20:06

To be fair, the ‘bears’ have been calling the crash (or the peak) for several years too, though not with the same degree of certainty in themselves as the NAR.

What makes the NAR suck is that they use flimsy data to draw overarching conclusions. The bears on this blog and elsewhere correctly called the bubble, but have the disadvantage of it being unprecedented in scope and severity, unlike any previous downturns.

 
 
Comment by Pen
2008-03-24 15:39:25

Another sign? What other signs are there?

The other sign is the membership dues (NAR extortion fees) that were paid with the February commission checks..

Comment by sm_landlord
Comment by Darrell_in _PHX
2008-03-24 16:00:15

Seems like a built in law suit for the buyer’s agent.

Buyer: “He had a responsibilty to work in my best interest, but you only showed me the houses where he got the biggest comission”.

Buyer’s agent: “Well, it wasn’t the comission…. it was the best house for the buyer… yeah, that’s it.. the best for the buyer.”

Judge: “I find the agent was not exercising their feduciary responsibilty to act in the best interest of their client. I award punitive damages in the amount of…..”

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Comment by cayo_ron
2008-03-24 16:23:12

Oh brother. Haven’t they heard that Redfin is about to replace their ass?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-24 12:33:01

US recession
Published: March 19 2008 08:47 | Last updated: March 19 2008 08:47

The denial stage has almost passed. Acceptance that the US has entered a recession is spreading. The question now is: what kind of recession?

Comment by rms
2008-03-24 20:31:16

“The question now is: what kind of recession?”

A negative savings rate recession, the worst kind.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-03-25 09:45:22

The kind that doesn’t end without massive and painful changes, probably for the worse, in the long run.

 
 
Comment by packman
2008-03-24 12:48:49

Turning Japanese

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

- Inigo Montoya

See Lawrunce Yun for a true example. And I’m not talking about his ancestry.

 
Comment by zeropointzero
2008-03-24 13:06:38

Funny - most of what I’ve seen referenced in the mainstream media today is the modest increase in resale activity from Jan. to Feb.

I would guess that we get mild monthly increases throughout the spring - just because of seasonal factors - but still declining Y-O-Y (and that’s a decline of off losses last year). And - that’s declining raw sales coupled with declining price - and continually growing inventory.

Saw some great stuff on BMIT a few days ago — Phoenix inventory just a couple thou shy of all-time high of 65k (October 2007) - almost certainly going to breach that again in a month or so, and continue to climb through the summer and into fall again.

Comment by alta
2008-03-24 13:47:20

The housing data suggest the following inevitable: Sellers are leaving the denial stage slowly by accepting lower prices and therefore will cause a sustainable decline of prices.

Comment by cayo_ron
2008-03-24 16:25:59

And I’m sure that a good deal of those “sellers” are banks.

 
 
Comment by mad_tiger
2008-03-24 14:06:10

Note in the NAR’s press release that sales are “seasonally adjusted”. It does make you wonder about the methodology they use and if it has been applied consistently.

In my opinion the only “clean” comparisons are raw year-over-year numbers—you don’t have to wonder about opaque statistical adjustments.

Comment by robmypro
2008-03-24 16:15:04

One thing is certain. The numbers you get from NAR are surely fudged. No way this group can be trusted.

 
 
 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-03-24 13:09:35

but the (February) improvement is another sign that the market is stabilizing,’ Yun said.”

Improvement? I suspect that many of those sales will end up not being sales and when they recalculate the numbers and release a revised report, it will show that February was a down month.

Then again, how can a person put any confidence in any report the NAR produces and who has repeatedly missed their forcasts over and over again. The lack of credibility makes it difficult to believe the recent report put out by the NAR!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-03-24 13:09:48

“Stocks gained Monday afternoon after news that JP Morgan Chase is boosting its bid for Bear Stearns reassured investors, helping to extend the recent rally.”

Phew. That was a close one. Instead of losing 99% of it’s value, it’s now only gonna lose 94%.

Comment by Pen
2008-03-24 15:59:41

I’d better the original $2/shr offer was to knock as many people around as possible, before making the more “generous” $10/shr offer.

It sure is a good thing that there isn’t any manipulation going on.

 
 
Comment by Cinch
2008-03-24 13:14:23

A consumer led recession, me thinks. Asset deflation couple with commodity inflation (price of house goes down and the price of food goes up). Wages will inch down. Expect this to continue for quite sometime, unless we can inflate the next bubble (alternative energy and/or infrastructure development). J6P will learn the lesson of his grandfather i.e. it is wise to live a frugal and modest lifestyle.

We will have a mild depression. What is on the other side?

Cinch

 
Comment by MEaston
2008-03-24 13:31:49

Countrywide elite now plan to profit from the collapse the created

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080324/ap_on_bi_ge/pennymac_mortgages;_ylt=AjU5.Ta8q.e3zIqm6MBxmZys0NUE

Comment by Pen
2008-03-24 15:57:09

all I can say is, wow!

 
Comment by robmypro
2008-03-24 16:19:18

In any self-respecting nation they would be in jail.

 
Comment by Nomansland
2008-03-25 05:43:57

You see, there’s always a way to make money in real estate. Some players will make money no matter what.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-03-24 13:54:49

bicoastal,

OT (from previous) I totally agree! It was decided by the NAHB that retirees weren’t going to get to keep a DIME from the sale of their long held primary residence! Not if THEY could help it!

Oh, you want to “downsize” do ya? There, 3,000 s/f home on a 4,000 s/f lot! There’s your freaking “downsizing” o.k!? Now just shut up and pay the man.

I have to imagine most folks from MN, WI etc. were being shown vaulted ceilings in LV and were saying… “Uh it’s a little more than we had in mind?” just have their objections trounced by some high pressure realtwhore. (Sorry but I get really angry about this)

Having barely survived the tech bubble my wife and I made a FIRM commitment to downsize as early as possible! Our youngest daughter was still a senior in HS and we said… “close enough!” (They’re seldom around much at that age anyway) We knew if we were going to retire on time (let alone early) sacrifices would have to be made. Since we’re more about family than material stuff, it was a no-brainer.

Yet “downsizing” is much more easily said than done (as we soon found out) Even if they compress the sq. footage, they load them up with amenities, be it in or OUTside the home. How many times do you REALLY think you’re going to use that clubhouse etc? I’m very miffed. There was no winning with these people.

Comment by ella
2008-03-24 14:28:42

“How many times do you REALLY think you’re going to use that clubhouse etc?”

Please see the behavioural economics link below. there is a new book out about irrational behaviour and he talks about this kind of thing in the interview.

 
Comment by Pen
2008-03-24 16:04:39

Even bigger question, “what makes you think that clubhouse is even going to get built?”

 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-03-24 20:54:56

Downsizing?? 3000 sf sounds freaking ENORMOUS to me!

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2008-03-24 13:59:29

“Is the U.S.-style housing meltdown in Canada’s future?

Say it ain’t Sault!!

Comment by wacko
2008-03-24 14:50:48

There will certainly have to be a reduction of some sort. Where I live in Canada, housing prices have gone up 100% in the past five years (and over 50% in the past year alone). Over those same five years, I reckon that wages have risen maybe 20%. So there’s clearly an affordability mismatch there.

And land is not in short supply around here, although grain prices have gone up as well, making farm land currently more valuable than it might otherwise be.

Comment by jrochest
2008-03-25 00:02:18

Saskatoon, by any chance? I never would have believed that it would cost more to buy a condo here than in Toronto…*that’s* gonna be great for in-migration.

Comment by wacko
2008-03-25 14:35:46

Nope, I’m your southern rival. Though I certainly don’t envy Toontown any more than my own home city.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by ella
2008-03-24 14:24:55

Delusional situation…I just heard an interview with the author of a new book about behavioural economics, Predictably Irrational.

The housing bubble came up twice during the program (author thinks sellers are irrational, by the way, heh). However, this was the finding that I found most interesting (which the author described as the most disturbing).

Students were given a written set of easy math problems, but not enough time to complete all the answers. When the time was up, they were asked to shred their papers, and tell the people conducting the test how many they got right. When they were offered a dollar per question answered, the number of questions students claimed to have answered correctly went up a little (so a lot of people cheating a little).

Next they offered students tokens in place of dollars. The tokens could be redeemed for cash. When this happened, students claimed a much higher number of correct answers. In other words, they felt much more comfortable lying to receive tokens for cash than actual cash, even though it amounted to exactly the same thing. The study’s author felt that this attitude could help explain a much higher comfort level doing something like backdating a stock, then with stealing actual cash. If you think about that in terms of liar loans and so on, it explains a lot. It is also a real argument for tighter regulation.

The show is an hour long and really interesting:
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2008/03/20080324_b_main.asp

Comment by Pen
2008-03-24 15:47:29

…sort like why the casinos like to use chips…

..or as we discussed over the weekend, why it’s easier to spend using plastic vs. cash

Comment by ella
2008-03-24 16:19:18

plastic vs. cash - Huh, I didn’t even think of that. you’re right.

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in _PHX
2008-03-24 15:54:16

The man that invented poker was smart. The man that invented the poker chip is a GENIOUS!!!!!!

No way would someone throw a week’s wages into the pot on a bluff. But a stack of those little plastic, multi-colored “chips”… no problem.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-24 14:43:32

“Antonio Villaraigosa.”

Former HBB troll…

Comment by catspit1
2008-03-24 15:50:19

Hey! Villaraigosa is hardest working man in LA. Why, just this morning was a pic in the Times of him filling a pothole!
Actually I don’t know how he finds time to do anything between smiling photo ops.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-03-24 16:53:31

And let us not forget this quote from Villariagosa “We clean your toilets”, during the illegal protests, as he bonded with his future voters.

I loved the prank Ken & John (radio personalities in Los Angeles) did, when they had people send “V” toilet brushes at City Hall. It was a classic.

 
 
 
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