March 26, 2008

Walking Away From A Get-Rich-Quick Thing

The Great Falls Tribune reports from Montana. “Condo developments can be found across Great Falls, ranging in both price and age. Calvin Scott, president of the Northwest Montana Association of Realtors in Kalispell and who serves on federal and state housing boards and committees, says Montana is in the process of catching up with the rest of the nation in terms of condo developments and ownership.”

“Bob Murray Construction built the Forrest Glen condos. Now he’s working on the South Park condos. The condos range in price from about $200,000 to $300,000. When Murray started building, he didn’t have time to set up an office at the site or get brochures.”

“‘We were just snowed with customers,’ he said.”

“Murray has noticed that the Forest Glen condos have appreciated quite a bit when they go on the market. ‘The appreciation is there…in almost all of the markets because of the huge demand,’ Scott, of Kalispell, said.”

The Oregonian. “The Portland area, once a star performer in an otherwise gloomy U.S. housing market, crossed into the same dismal territory in January when home values dropped for the first time since record-keeping began in 1987, according to the Standard & Poor’s Case-Shiller report.”

“In the Portland region, home values grew by double-digit percentages for 28 straight months. Oregon, along with the rest of the country, enjoyed a historic real estate boom from 2004 to 2006. Now, both are suffering through a historic collapse.”

“Portland was aided by Californians’ continued migration north in search of affordable housing. ‘Now, of course, that’s over,’ said Mark McMullen, an Oregon-based senior economist for Moody’s Economy.com.”

“Real estate brokers Paul Johnson and Sam Purtle have seen their business in distressed home sales jump in the slowdown. ‘What we’re seeing more of is people who bought houses in 2005 or 2006,’ Johnson said of the homes in short sales.”

“Their co-worker, broker Christina Smith, is listing a home on Southwest Hart Road in Washington County for $399,500. The current owner is trying avoid foreclosure after buying his home in August 2006 for $408,500.”

“Smith listed the home Feb. 1. So far, no broker has even visited the home.”

“McMullen forecasts that sputtering home sales will help drive the state into a short, mild recession this summer. That pain, he said, will continue to hit hardest among contractors, bankers and brokers who depend on housing for a paycheck. ‘There’s an unsustainable army of these folks out there,’ he said.”

The Register Guard from Oregon. “The national housing crisis has dragged Lane County’s housing-related industries down and pushed unemployment higher, according to statistics released Monday by the Oregon Employment Department.”

“‘It has to do with the housing crisis nationally — that is probably the biggest factor,’ said Brian Rooney, the Employment Department’s regional labor economist in Eugene-Springfield. ‘Anything close to housing is down.’”

“At Eugene’s Random Lengths, a newsletter that tracks forest product markets in North America, Editor Shawn Church said current lumber prices don’t indicate any immediate relief.”

“‘What we’re seeing right now is the industry responding to a very tough period — an unprecedented period, and one that rivals the early 1980s,’ Church said. ‘I think there’s hope that the housing mess will find a bottom sometime, maybe by late 2008 or early 2009. But I think everyone is braced (for) and resigned to a slow recovery, just given the extent of housing’s burst bubble.’”

The Bend Bulletin from Oregon. “There’s both good news and bad news for prospective homebuyers in Bend, according to local real estate and mortgage professionals.”

“Tom Greene, the president of the Central Oregon Association of Realtors, said pending sales for the month of March are up significantly, driven by low interest rates, lots of inventory and a realization that the current buyer’s market won’t last forever.”

“‘Buyers are jumping off the fence,’ Greene said.”

“A Wells Fargo document released late February said that in Deschutes County and other so-called ’soft’ markets across the country, borrowers may have to put at least 10 percent down to purchase a home, compared with 5 percent in a ‘normal’ market.”

“The PMI Group Inc., a mortgage insurer based, rated Deschutes County a ‘distressed market’ in its most recent quarterly survey released March 1, meaning the company will no longer write mortgage insurance policies for mortgages with less than 10 percent down, said PMI spokeswoman Stephanie Corns.”

“Mortgage insurance is typically required by lenders when the borrower is unable to pay 20 percent of the home’s purchase price as a down payment.”

“By requiring more money down, borrowers have more equity in their homes and, as a result, more options to refinance or renegotiate their loan terms if the value of their home drops, Corns said. Lenders don’t want homeowners to foreclose, Corns added.”

“‘Call it lessons learned,’ Corns said. ‘We have really learned through the economic downturn that equity matters. Options are limited when people have no equity … when you have some equity in your home, a cushion, you have some flexibility to work with the lender and servicer, so that’s the basis of our distressed market policy.’”

The Heraldnet from Washington. “Area real estate professionals and politicians want to clear something up. Now is a good time to buy and sell real estate in Snohomish County, no matter what people may be hearing about the national market.”

“Many of the speakers, including Ron Sparks, a VP at Coldwell Banker Bain, pointed the finger of blame firmly at the media, which he said are confusing the public. Sparks compared the real estate market to the weather: ‘What’s happening in San Diego isn’t helpful here.’”

“The industry and area leaders also need to address other ways to get people into homes, said Nathan Gorton, executive vice president of the Snoho­mish County-Camano Association of Realtors. In 2003 the median house price in the county hovered around $220,000. Today, it’s $368,000.”

“That’s great for homeowners, he said, but not so great for first-time buyers.”

“The subprime mortgage mess has made lenders return to ‘old school’ restrictions and requirements. Buyers may have to get help from family rather than use a riskier loan, Sparks said.”

The Seattle PI. “The Seattle-area housing market became more like the dreary national market in one more way in January, posting its first year-to-year price drop since 1991, according to the Standard & Poor’s S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices.”

“The annual decline was the first since December 1991 and the largest since October 1991. The monthly drop is the largest in the history of the Seattle index, which goes back to the start of 1990.”

“Given that the Seattle area’s annual appreciation has been declining since February 2006, the fact that it finally is negative is no shock. ‘I’m surprised we hadn’t seen a decline actually a couple months ago,’ said Glenn Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research at Washington State University.”

“But Crellin also didn’t put much weight on a 1.3 percent annual decline. ‘It’s there, it’s real, but it’s not a big deal,’ he said.”

“The Seattle area has declined 5.6 percent from a peak in July, already exceeding an earlier forecast by Moody’s Economy.com that area prices would decline 5 percent from the peak to a trough at the end of this year or early in 2009.”

“‘I guess our forecast was maybe a little too optimistic,’ Andrew Gledhill, an associate economist at Economy.com, said on Tuesday.”

“Gledhill now expects a ‘close to double-digit’ decline in the Seattle area, hitting bottom the first half of 2009.”

“‘There’s still a ton of supply in King and Snohomish counties and it’s going to take a ton of time, with demand being so much slower, for that to be worked off,’ he said. ‘It’s going to be a tough year everywhere, and Seattle’s not going to escape it.’”

“Seattle’s prices continue to hold up better than places such as Miami or Las Vegas, which was just behind Miami with a 19.29 percent annual drop and the largest monthly decline, 5.1 percent.”

“‘Seattle’s never going to get to that point,’ Gledhill said.” “Crellin did not offer any numerical predictions, saying: ‘I think we’re going to continue to see some rough times for the next several months, but I’m hoping it’s not going to get much worse.’”

The Bellingham Herald from Washington. “Homebuilding activity is expected to slacken across Whatcom County this summer as builders wait to clear an inventory of unsold new homes. ‘I have pretty well stopped on the spec side,’ said homebuilder Gary Reid. ‘There’s enough inventory out there.’”

“Reid, a 33-year industry veteran, said experienced builders know that booms never last. Newcomers to the industry may face a harsher fate. ‘When times are good, everybody is a builder,’ Reid said. ‘This contraction takes them out of the market.’”

“Tightening standards for everybody else appear to be pushing more would-be buyers out of the market, causing home inventories to rise. ‘There’s just an oversupply of houses on the market,’ said mortgage broker Susan Templeton. ‘Three years ago there was an undersupply.’”

“David Latham, real estate loan officer at Banner Bank, said some homebuilders are in distress. ‘We’re seeing some very, very established builders having some real challenges out there,’ Latham said. ‘They just didn’t anticipate the dramatic and sudden slowdown in sales.’”

“In some cases, Latham said, investors with little knowledge of the home construction business went into partnership with builders, seeking profits. ‘They thought it was, for lack of a better term, a get-rich-quick thing,’ Latham said.”

“Whatcom County can’t escape collateral damage as money-lending tightens and the housing market cools off. Kristi Coy, senior sales associate at RE/MAX Whatcom County Inc., predicts that home foreclosures for 2008 likely will rise to about 600, a 50 percent increase from the 2007 total of about 400.”

“The problem, Coy said, is that many homeowners and buyers borrowed too much money during the mortgage market boom that ended with a bang in late 2007, and lenders let them.”

“Both borrowers and lenders assumed that home prices would keep rising. But when prices leveled off or sagged, banks and borrowers were stuck.”

“‘We don’t have a bad market,’ Coy said. ‘We have a normal market. What we saw in the last three or four years was an abnormal market and people got used to that. We got used to the high prices.’”

“‘All the people in foreclosure had life happen to them one or two years after buying,’ said Linda Zemler, a short sale and foreclosure specialist who works with Coy. ‘There’s no out.’”

“In many cases, the foreclosures stemmed from refinancing rather than home purchase. A scan of online foreclosure notices filed in recent months shows that the vast majority involve loans made in the past three years. In many cases, the homeowner had been in the home for much longer, but refinanced during the credit boom.”

“The Bellingham Herald compared October 2007’s batch of foreclosure notices to property sale records at the Whatcom County Assessor’s Office and found that 20 of the 41 foreclosure listings for the month appeared to involve refinancing.”

“In many cases, Coy and Zemler said, people tapped into home equity to pay medical bills after major illness. Others simply lost control of spending.”

“‘We’ve watched people lose their homes because they bought a new car,’ Zemler said.”

“Jude Williams, mortgage consultant at Wells Fargo subsidiary Bellwether Mortgage LLC, said some lenders never seemed to turn anyone away.”

“‘We never did a lot of that crazy subprime stuff,’ Williams said. ‘Some of the lenders out there really had much broader parameters. All you had to do was fog a glass. There was a lender for you somewhere. It was pretty bizarre for a while.’”

“Deborah Cook, broker and owner of Cityview Mortgage Professionals in Bellingham, said she often encounters prime borrowers who have been steered into subprime loans by other lenders. In some cases, that meant a ‘pay option ARM.’”

“‘You’re paying interest on interest on interest,’ Cook said. ‘They’ll call me. I’ll try to help them; there’s nothing I can do for them.’”

The Kitsap Sun from Washington. “In yet another indication Kitsap County is not immune from the current housing crisis, the number of properties that were scheduled for foreclosure auction during the first two months of this year is 140 percent higher over the same period last year.”

“About 110 properties were scheduled for auction in January and February combined, compared with 46 in 2007, according to the Bellevue-based ForeclosurePoint.com. Most were single-family homes.”

“Numbers from Kitsap County Assessor Jim Avery told the same tale. ‘Forced sales’ recorded by his office more than tripled between January and February 2007 and the first two months of 2008, from 33 to 101.”

“‘Forced sales’ also includes situations where homeowners and contractors who are behind on their mortgage payments simply walk away from the loans.”

“Walking away from an unaffordable loan is ‘a common occurrence’ today, Avery said. ‘It’s certainly the most serious we’ve had since I’ve been an assessor,’ Avery said of the loan crisis.”

“For all of 2007, Avery’s office counted 332 forced sales. A big spike occurred between November and December, when they rose from 29 to 55 forced sales.”

“About 259 properties are currently scheduled for future foreclosure auctions in Kitsap County, according to ForeclosurePoint.”

“Walt Bailey, co-owner of Olympic Northwest Mortgage, said the current climate is by far the worst of four down cycles he’s seen in his 20 years in local mortgage lending.”

“He offered some encouragement that this, too, will pass. ‘What I’m seeing here is cyclical,’ he said. Years of 20 percent appreciation finally caught up and now ‘we’re slowing up a bit,’ he said. ‘We’re just going back to where we were 10 years ago.’”




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106 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-26 11:46:10

FYI, I’m running a little behind because a software ghost got inside my primary computer and took over for a while. Hopefully he’s gone!

Comment by bink
2008-03-26 12:05:54

I predict that your software ghost will taper off towards the end of this year and your computer will return to it’s normal performance levels.

Comment by mgnyc99
2008-03-26 12:30:53

i predict a 50/50 chance the sofware ghost will go away

Comment by Front Range Bob
2008-03-26 12:53:43

I predict Ben’s occurences of software ghosting have already topped out and, seasonally adjusted, he’ll see a recovery to near-zero instances in the second half of FY 08.

It’s all cyclical, don’tcha know.

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Comment by patient renter
2008-03-26 13:05:45

Don’t worry, all signs indicate that your ghost has bottomed out.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-03-26 13:24:13

‘…a software ghost got inside my primary computer and took over for a while. Hopefully he’s gone!’

How can he be gone? Isn’t it different inside your computer? Location, location, location…

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-03-26 19:40:44

If the media would just stop talking about ghosts, this PC haunting wouldn’t be happening.

 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-03-26 13:51:52

Did you guys see this one?

NEW YORK (Reuters) - About 60 protesters opposed to the U.S. Federal Reserve’s help in bailing out Bear Stearns (NYSE:BSC - News) entered the lobby of the investment bank’s Manhattan headquarters on Wednesday, demanding assistance for struggling homeowners.

Comment by phillygal
2008-03-26 14:11:20

enter the fronting stay-at-home moms who want subsidies

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-03-26 14:24:52

Are you talking about a disk cloning program? What exactly is a s/w ghost? Can you get it exorcised?

Comment by speedingpullet
2008-03-26 16:06:55

LOL - get the TAPS team from ‘Ghost Hunters’ to do an investigation..

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-03-26 15:08:13

It was Sean Snaith that did it.

 
 
Comment by smf
2008-03-26 12:03:21

“The Bellingham Herald compared October 2007’s batch of foreclosure notices to property sale records at the Whatcom County Assessor’s Office and found that 20 of the 41 foreclosure listings for the month appeared to involve refinancing.”

Are you saying that we are getting record foreclosures without the new loans resetting, yet!!! In other words, a good chunk of the foreclosures are refis, not the ones that bought a little too much.

Oh, boy, I guess the resets are still a major part, and they really haven’t even started…

“In many cases, Coy and Zemler said, people tapped into home equity to pay medical bills after major illness. Others simply lost control of spending.”

If you lost control of your spending, it’s your own damn fault. Even with a little help, it means that they will lose control again and again.

“Deborah Cook, broker and owner of Cityview Mortgage Professionals in Bellingham, said she often encounters prime borrowers who have been steered into subprime loans by other lenders. In some cases, that meant a ‘pay option ARM.’”

If I recall correctly, the sub-prime crisis does not refer to the type of loans used, but to the credit rating of the borrrower. Hence, you can have a prime borrower with a subprime loan. But these alt-A and prime borrowers are not counted in the subprime categories.

Comment by turnoutthelights
2008-03-26 12:10:44

And Lil’ Deb’s ending line…’“‘You’re paying interest on interest on interest,’ Cook said. ‘They’ll call me. I’ll try to help them; there’s nothing I can do for them.’” …leaves out the fact that these prime borrowers were paying the lowest amount possible - the neg-am that soon ate them.
Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid, we all fall down!

Comment by smf
2008-03-26 12:35:01

For all of them that were paying the minimum in their neg-am loan, there is nothing that can be done to save them. Even a decrease in interest rates can’t help.

The prime borrowers are in for a hard time. It has already started.

‘Welcome to the 3rd inning’

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2008-03-26 12:11:01

60 protesters enter Bear Sterns building in NYC:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080326/bearstearns_protest.html

Comment by sf jack
2008-03-26 12:24:40

“Demonstrators organized by the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America chanted ‘Help Main Street, not Wall Street’ and entered the lobby without an invitation for around half an hour before being escorted out by police.”

*******

I’ve been expecting protests to occur.

How many more will there be over the next few years?

Comment by mgnyc99
2008-03-26 12:34:36

were ther pitchforks and torches?

this is getting interesting

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Comment by measton
2008-03-26 12:51:50

I loved Wells Fargo saying today that they would love a deal like JPM ie they would love to take a big risk on buying another bank after the FED gives them a guarantee that they will not loose money.

PIGS at the trough

 
Comment by measton
2008-03-26 12:54:32

When do tax payers start protesting at Bear Sterns saying no bial out for gamblers big and small. Anyone in the NY area keen on getting a group together for a nice HBB protest.

 
Comment by measton
2008-03-26 13:23:29

Make that bale out

 
Comment by gary barnum
2008-03-26 13:31:04

It’s bail-out.

 
Comment by measton
2008-03-26 15:13:42

It looked funny so I plugged it into MS word thesaurus and both bail out and bale out give to help as synonym.

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2008-03-26 18:40:08

It’s OK guys, we know what you mean.
Concentrate on the thought, not the little stuff.

 
 
Comment by neuromance
2008-03-26 20:09:45

There will be sob stories galore from people in over their heads.

My response? Rent. You can’t always get what you want.

(But if you try, sometimes you just might find, you get what you need. - The Rolling Stones, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”)

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Comment by ella
2008-03-26 12:45:57

“Homeowners, that’s more than $1 trillion (in mortgage debt), you’re crazy,” one man in a suit screamed at a protester on the street.”

something is wrong with me, this made me laugh a lot. crazy mortgage debtors on the loose.

Comment by Linus Pauling
2008-03-26 18:32:21

$1 trillion (in mortgage debt) is considered crazy for bailing out homeowners is considered crazy by the man in a suit.

However, to the same man in a suit, one-fifth of $1 trillion ($200 billion) is not so crazy for bailing out investment banks.

Different standards I guess for the rich money gamblers on Wall Street. They deserve more sympathy, I guess.

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Comment by ella
2008-03-26 12:50:32

“Homeowners, that’s more than $1 trillion (in mortgage debt), you’re crazy,” one man in a suit screamed at a protester on the street.”

something is wrong with me, this made me laugh. crazy mortgage debtors on the loose.

21st century protests are about mortgages? Is there going to be a protest about sensible shoes next (staged by people in stilettos?)

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-03-26 13:19:18

‘Is there going to be a protest about sensible shoes next(staged by people in stilettos?)’

Already painting the signs for it, baybee!

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Comment by speedingpullet
2008-03-26 16:11:11

Me too.
Stillettos are the work of the devil.

If you want to break an ankle, at least have fun doing it by skateboarding off of a rail at speed.

 
 
Comment by crisrose
2008-03-26 13:58:12

“21st century protests are about mortgages? Is there going to be a protest about sensible shoes next (staged by people in stilettos?)”

For a nation of low class ‘I want a free lunch’ self-centered losers, it shouldn’t be long.

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Comment by Groundhogday
2008-03-26 12:10:31

Yep, huge demand for $300k condos in Great Falls. After all EVERYONE wants to live there and if you move to Great Falls, Montana you are clearly moving there for the edgy, urban lifestyle.

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-03-26 12:15:27

you are clearly moving there for the edgy…MINUS 40 BELOW…urban lifestyle. LOL

 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-26 12:24:40

An acquaintance there thinks it’s great that there’s so much building going on in GF - he can’t figure out what’s driving it, but at least it’s not the same gloomy market as the rest of the country! lol

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-26 12:40:32

In around 2002, I was living on the Texas coast. I met a guy in his 20’s that had moved there to be with his GF. His parents came down from Montana to visit and bought a house for him to live in. Then they bought 2 more. This was an area where rents were very low and I doubt half occupied. And the prices were through the roof. Speculation was wild even in Montana at that time, apparently.

Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 13:29:55

The speculative bubble in MT is phenomenal. I can’t, for the life of me, understand how it’s kept going this long. The jobs there are so paltry and low paying, that one needs to be independently wealthy just to survive. I have to believe that underneath all of the surface BS, lies an absolutely bottomless pit which is real estate values, hidden away by a state clinging to non-disclosure laws. There’s got to be some serious pain going on there.

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Comment by pos
2008-03-26 13:57:07

California refugees still escape to Montana. The cost of housing and fear of a flood of Mexican immigrants is the reasons.

 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-26 14:14:18

Bear I’m trying to find those laws. Where do they usually put that stuff - contracts? RE licensing?

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-03-26 14:15:01

Naw, just get in line behind Charlotte. It’s behind Portland and Seattle, which crossed into the dark side this month.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 17:21:06

NIM- I’d bet there is a state website which has the info. I’ve never looked.

 
 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-03-26 13:35:50

This thread could get confusing.

GF = Greater Fool?
GF = Girlfriend?
GF = Great Falls?

Whatever you do, don’t get a GF GF GF.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2008-03-26 13:57:41

Whatever you do, don’t get a GF who is a GF and lives in GF.

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2008-03-26 18:43:39

There is another connotation for GF that is somewhat vulgar.

 
 
 
Comment by Front Range Bob
2008-03-26 12:59:15

Some of the folks in our Billings office tell me that the RE market is still crazy there and show no signs of slowing down.

Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-03-26 13:30:41

Details forthcoming*, but ask ‘em how the downtown condos (except Stapleton) are selling. See if they’ve heard anything about Yellowstone Co. Trustee Sale notices spiking in February and March. This page shows sales down 7% YOY and SFH permits down 24%. Billings is still putting along with reasonable appreciation, but to anyone who sees “no signs”, they should start looking harder.

* In my new housing video. Look for a July release date.

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Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 13:32:28

“Lie la lie lie lie la lie, lie la lie”

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-03-26 14:27:33

Can you post a score too not just the lyrics? Thanks.

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-03-26 15:55:47

(score, sort of. I think he’s thinking of, if key of C, this:)
ABCBBAG CBC and next comes same thing as
DEFEEDC CBC

 
 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-26 14:02:09

Missoula Org of Realtors took their stats down about a month ago. They’re just not giving the right impression I guess.

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Comment by snake charmer
2008-03-26 13:45:56

I can’t be the only person here questioning the wisdom of naming a condo complex in a small western city “South Park.” What would Cartman say?

“The developer of this &#^%% place can ^#&*%# kiss my #&@)* !!!”

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-26 14:28:39

Hey, it’s a HIP, edgy, urban lifestyle!

 
Comment by AztoOrtoCotoOr
2008-03-26 15:14:48

And I thought everyone wanted to be a dry land farmer up there!! I guess no need to lose your backside farming when you can just buy a condo or two in lovely Great Falls. Downtown Great Falls was a happening place for me in the 80’s cruising central ave. as a teen. Never thought about going back.

 
 
Comment by eastcoaster
2008-03-26 12:11:01

“What I’m seeing here is cyclical,” he said. Years of 20 percent appreciation finally caught up and now “we’re slowing up a bit,” he said.

“We’re just going back to where we were 10 years ago.”

Meaning lending standards? Or also prices? 10 years ago plus normal rate of inflation works for me. As do lending standards.

Comment by teufelhunden
2008-03-26 12:28:15

No, I just want 10 years ago prices. Forget the normal rate of inflation. Appreciation drastically over-reached at the peak, and in a few years we’ll get a plunge below reasonable prices at the bottom of the trough.

Comment by pos
2008-03-26 14:06:47

I don’t see how we can avoid a really big credit crunch and high unemployment. In California 1998 prices should be seen again, a 1/2 off sale from today’s prices will get us back to the 1998 prices.

 
 
 
Comment by sf jack
2008-03-26 12:19:40

“McMullen forecasts that sputtering home sales will help drive the state into a short, mild recession this summer. That pain, he said, will continue to hit hardest among contractors, bankers and brokers who depend on housing for a paycheck. ‘There’s an unsustainable army of these folks out there,’ he said.”

******

Given the last two sentences above, how can anyone think Oregon will have a “short, mild recession” this summer?

Comment by Jean S
2008-03-26 14:24:44

no one really does, but who’s gonna say it first?

 
 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-26 12:26:30

Back in the day, didn’t the lenders inquire as to where you were getting your down? I thought they actually looked in your accts to see if it was a lump sum pmt out of the blue or something that was saved up over time.

“The subprime mortgage mess has made lenders return to ‘old school’ restrictions and requirements. Buyers may have to get help from family rather than use a riskier loan, Sparks said.”

Comment by Front Range Bob
2008-03-26 13:06:38

When my wife and I bought our first home back in ‘94, our accounts were thoroughly scrutinized by the lender to ensure that no more than a relatively small percentage of our down payment was a “gift.” In fact, they pointedly would not take our assurances that we received no financial assistance with the down payment.

Times certainly have changed.

Comment by NotInMontana
2008-03-26 14:05:51

Wow. Banks seem like pillars of rectitude back then. But I suppose they loosened up a bit for local chamber of commerce buddies.

 
Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-03-26 18:50:34

I remember “gift letters.” If you received money from, say your parents, the lender wanted a signed letter from them stating that the money was a gift and not a loan which had to be repaid.

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-03-26 13:32:28

Why are pre-bubble borrowing parameters referred to as “old school restrictions”??

If that’s the case, then the ‘New School’ has taught us *nothing* about sensible lending. I’d like to see someone point out one new mortgage product that has been beneficial to the general public.

 
Comment by are they crazy
2008-03-26 15:18:26

I can remember when one had to have an account at the bank that was making the loan. You had to sign and notarize docs saying no one was loaning you the money for the down and you had to show that you had the 20% down in your account. You also had to have tax returns and they verified your employment.

 
Comment by JohnF
2008-03-26 15:40:50

Years ago (and maybe still today) in CA lenders would allow money from family members for the downpayment but they also required a letter from the family member that the money was not a loan and would not have to be repaid by the borrower.

Fifteen or twenty years ago people played all kinds of games with downpayments by getting money from relatives six months before they were going to purchase so they could produce bank statements with the downpayment in their account. I guess you didn’t have to do that stuff after the lenders stopped requiring downpayments.

In the case where you get the money 6 months in advance for the downpayment, the money actually went into the purchase. At least back then, somebody had to come up with a downpayment!

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-03-26 16:26:37

I remember those days well. In fact, in 1983, when ARM’s were 17.5% (Volcker’s smart move, but it hurts us starting out), we purchased our first home.

The hoops we had to jump over, the proof of savings were real, the ratios made sense, the employment docs, tax returns, etc…

It was a pain, but it also took some effort and responsibility back in those days to buy a 1st home. We may not had a Taj Mahal lifestyle, but we were at the level we could afford, and stayed there, until we moved up 14 years later.

 
 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-03-26 18:28:18

I noticed that too. The guy doesn’t have the frame of reference to say “old school”.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-03-26 18:30:46

Actually, it was even funnier on second thought. The first prefferred solution to not being allowed to borrow too much on a too risky loan was: borrow from mom and dad.

The really old school concept of “Saving Money” wasn’t even considered.

 
 
Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-03-26 18:48:10

Shortly before I bought my house I sold some stock and transferred the proceeds to my bank account. The money was to fund the down payment and closing expenses. Shortly after the transfer I received a call from the lender who asked me the source of the money that mysteriously appeared in my bank account.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-26 12:37:47

“That’s great for homeowners, he said, but not so great for first-time buyers.”

Well then maybe all the existing homeowners can just sell houses to each other to keep prices up. Oh sorry Parasite Realtors, this means no commissions for you.

Comment by Climber
2008-03-26 13:37:43

And it’s total BS that it’s “good” for homeowners. Higher prices hurt everyone. Even if you “cash out” and rent higher prices eventually either drive up rent or drive away landlords.

Comment by HARM
2008-03-26 13:56:14

You missed the best part:

“The subprime mortgage mess has made lenders return to ‘old school’ restrictions and requirements. Buyers may have to get help from family rather than use a riskier loan, Sparks said.”

I love how the prevailing, sane lending standards of the last hundred+ years suddenly becomes “old school”, thanks to a 6-year credit bubble. And of course, prices cannot fall (any further). Buyers will just “have” to get help from the Bank of Mom & Dad, since they’re now “deprived” of those riskier loan products.

 
 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-26 12:45:57

“‘Seattle’s never going to get to that point,’ Gledhill said.” “Crellin did not offer any numerical predictions, saying: ‘I think we’re going to continue to see some rough times for the next several months, but I’m hoping it’s not going to get much worse.’”

Just say it Moron: “I Don’t Know”

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-03-26 13:39:09

‘Just say it Moron: “I Don’t Know…’

(and then add)
…but I’m hoping I didn’t just made a terror-stinky in my pants.”

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-03-26 13:16:27

“‘All the people in foreclosure had life happen to them one or two years after buying,’ said Linda Zemler, a short sale and foreclosure specialist who works with Coy. ‘There’s no out.’”

Wha…? I am having a life happen to me, too, I’m pretty sure. Look at me—here I am, just a’breathing away, with a pulse and everything, eating Twizzlers. But I’m not having a foreclosure; what could this possibly mean?!

“In many cases, the foreclosures stemmed from refinancing rather than home purchase.”

Ahhhhh…NOW I understand. It wasn’t a case where they ‘had a life happen to them.’ It was a case of they ‘had the stupids plus greed happen to them’.

Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 13:44:04

“‘All the people in foreclosure had life happen to them one or two years after buying,’ said Linda Zemler, a short sale and foreclosure specialist who works with Coy. ‘There’s no out.’”

Mmm hmmm…riiiiiight. Say Linda, were you born in a tobacco hut in the Blue Ridge mountains?

 
Comment by Hoz
2008-03-26 13:45:56

I’m envious - I don’t have twizzlers - now I must go to get some.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-03-26 14:20:17

Yeah, me, too, and I CAN’T go get any, too far out in the backcountry (my net runs off cell towers). Dang, Olygal, next you’ll be talking about ice cream (75 degrees out here today) or cold beer.

Comment by Hoz
2008-03-26 14:58:05

Why did you mention ice cream? I want a frozen custard! Now.

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Comment by Big V
2008-03-26 16:17:03

Try making a licorice milkshake.

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2008-03-26 18:47:24

Black humor!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Hoz
2008-03-26 14:01:02

“‘Buyers are jumping off the fence,’ Greene said.”

And sellers are jumping off the bridge.

And cows are jumping over the moon.

Comment by housing hanky panky
2008-03-26 15:24:01

:smile:

 
 
Comment by txchick57
2008-03-26 14:04:25

Seeing any foreclosures in the Pearl yet?

Comment by MacAttack
2008-03-26 14:18:59

I haven’t yet, but give it some more time. Remember, we’re 6 months behind the curve. I did see my first “Bank Owned” RE sign recently. And there are plenty of $400-500K houses just sitting, especially from the little guys.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 14:40:14

Give it some time…things are starting to get really fugly around here.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-03-27 00:17:35

Yes.

 
 
Comment by Brad
2008-03-26 14:08:45

“The subprime mortgage mess has made lenders return to ‘old school’ restrictions and requirements. Buyers may have to get help from family rather than use a riskier loan, Sparks said.”
———————————-
TRANSLATION: Borrow, beg, or steal. Just get money and buy a house. Pleeeeeeze!!!

Comment by Big V
2008-03-26 16:02:15

If I thought I could get money from my family, then I would have done so long ago. Who else is with me on this one?

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-03-26 16:42:15

No way. Don’t you have enough aggravation in life?

The mix of family and borrowing/lending money in life is a deadly mix. Kids maybe, but not money.

Comment by Big V
2008-03-26 17:53:40

Oh, I wasn’t gonna borrow it. I just figured they’d give it to me ’cause I’m so cute.

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Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 17:19:10

I have a sibling who is incredibly wealthy ($50M?). This particular person is as tight as they come. I’ve even heard the phrase “Never give anyone money”. It’s one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever witnessed. If I were homeless, I wouldn’t ask for a dollar. I wouldn’t even ask for a drink of water. We’re not close anymore.

 
 
 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-03-26 14:17:12

“Given that the Seattle area’s annual appreciation has been declining since February 2006, the fact that it finally is negative is no shock. ‘I’m surprised we hadn’t seen a decline actually a couple months ago,’ said Glenn Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research at Washington State University.”

“But Crellin also didn’t put much weight on a 1.3 percent annual decline. ‘It’s there, it’s real, but it’s not a big deal,’ he said.”

—————————————————————————-

It’s the new NAR mantra!!!! Repeat after me!

It’s there!
It’s real!
But it’s NOT a BIG DEAL!

C’mon, with me now…

Comment by Big V
2008-03-26 15:58:24

If you throw in a bottle of good bourbon, a Perrier, a splash of still water, and some oranges, lemons, limes, and maraschino cherries, then I will chant with you. Otherwise, mmmmmmno.

 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by aNYCdj
2008-03-26 14:59:24

Come on TXchick you are always bragging how much you made…you can afford it….PBchick57

 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-03-26 15:12:06

One of the blog posts is funny: “I put a bid in for this mansion, but I was off by 74.5 million. Well, I’ll try next time. If any of you know of a mansion for 500k, I’m in the market.”

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-03-26 15:13:43

cheap place…

 
 
Comment by txchick57
Comment by Michael Emmel
2008-03-26 18:51:52

Good link. From the pict on the housing bubble.
The only thing I don’t agree with is how much housing will overshoot on the downside. Also collapse in prices will be much faster we are already seeing that. He has peak value at $24T. I’m assuming it will drop by 70% giving 8Trillion in line with 1990’s prices. But we have a lot more homes now so your looking at average prices less than the 1990’s. And yes that mean we are in a depression. The problem with the curve on the graph is we have a lot of reason to drop a lot more and very little reason for everything to suddenly become fine once housing is affordable.

We have had plenty of economic shocks in the past with affordable housing. Just because housing/oil started this depression/recession does not mean it will stop once housing is again affordable.

 
 
Comment by housing hanky panky
2008-03-26 15:14:06

New Century Bankruptcy Examiner Says KPMG Aided Fraud

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aXebBOZ3eBjQ&refer=news

Comment by robmypro
2008-03-26 15:36:36

What a shock! NOT.

 
 
Comment by brent
2008-03-26 15:34:56

Lenders still have their heads in the sand.

Have a house in Seattle probably could sell for $280,000 with lengthy sales timeframe. Owe $256,000. Total payments $2,500. Second is $984 with 13.5% interest ouch. Current on both loans. Been working with countrywide for 2 months to get rate reduced on 2nd. Promised resolution within 1 month. Feel best option now is to tell them we will make no more payments until payment reduced to $500 a mo (on 2nd) with applicable reduction in interest rate. Heck property probably has 5-10% reduction in value coming over next 18 mo’s and can rent same size place in better area for probably $1,500 a mo.

Anyone have any thoughts.

Comment by Big V
2008-03-26 15:53:53

They can’t get the investor on the line. Without the investor (who owns the mortgage), they are powerless to help you, and powerless to help themselves. Don’t default on the loan, but keep trying. It will take time to work this out.

 
Comment by redmondjp
2008-03-26 15:56:41

Are you thinking of walking away from it? If so, you may want to sign a lease first on a rental, to avoid any credit-check unpleasantness. But then again you’d miss out on several months in your existing house, payment-free . . .

 
Comment by geon
2008-03-26 20:04:35

ummmm….stick to your terms?

 
 
Comment by Joel_CA
2008-03-26 21:50:38

This is purely anecdotal, but in my work as a Police Officer I have noticed a large increase in Realtor™-related calls for service. Now that so many of their crooked deals have fallen apart, they are suing the hell out of each other and are quick to point out their former “partner’s” fraud.
Then there are the trophy wives who are leaving their “real estate executive” husbands now that they don’t make money. Be sure to toss in some domestic violence to complete the downward spiral.

 
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