March 28, 2008

The Belief That Permeated Even The Fed

Some housing bubble news from Wall Street and Washington. Bloomberg, “KB Home, the fifth-largest U.S. homebuilder, reported a fiscal first-quarter net loss was $268.2 million. Revenue fell 43 percent and net orders plunged 75 percent to 1,449 homes, the company said in a statement. Los Angeles-based KB Home recorded $223.9 million in pretax expenses to write down the value of land, joint ventures and options on property.”

“‘Many potential buyers either cannot or will not make a purchase commitment today,’ CEO Jeffrey Mezger said on the conference call. ‘Some are worried about losing their jobs, others believe prices have further to fall. Many are simply unable to qualify for financing given the more restrictive lending environment.’”

“The number of homes sold tumbled 43 percent in the quarter, KB Home said. The value of the company’s backlog, or homes under contract and not yet sold and a sign of future revenue, fell 59 percent. The number of homes in backlog tumbled 57 percent.”

“Orders tumbled 83 percent in both KB Home’s Southwest region of Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico and its central region of Colorado, Illinois and Texas. KB Home got contracts for the most houses in the quarter in California. Still, orders in California fell 63 percent.”

“KB Home’s average selling price in the quarter fell 7.2 percent to $248,200. In fiscal 2007, the average price fell 9 percent to $261,600 from the same period a year earlier.”

“KB Home obtained the most revenue in 2007 from California. It sold homes there at an average price of $433,600, down 11 percent from 2006.”

The Chicago Tribune. “Foreclosures are piling up on the books of lenders, and Corus Bankshares Inc. is no exception.”

“The Chicago area’s second-biggest locally headquartered bank has seen its ‘real estate owned’ on its books jump from $8.4 million at year-end 2006, involving a Libertyville office complex, to $37 million at the end of 2007, consisting mostly of a Naples, Fla., condominium conversion.”

“The Naples condominium project, which was being converted from a relatively new apartment complex, is under contract for sale. Asked how Corus was able to sell the properties, CEO Robert Glickman replied, ‘By reducing the price.’”

“‘Naples, Fla., is a nice town, but we didn’t get the price we wanted,’ he said.”

“‘We could hold on in hopes the market will get better in ‘09 or 2010, or otherwise we’ll take what the market brings us,’ Glickman said. ‘It’s an important decision. We wouldn’t sell at too much of a sacrifice because we’re not under pressure to sell, but if the price seems good enough, we’ll let it go.’”

“The Naples condo conversion had sold 90 of 450 units, but then sales slowed.”

“‘The borrowers needed to come up with more money. While they’re renting units, there isn’t enough rental income to make our mortgage payments,’ he said. ‘So they’ve got to dig in their pockets or give us the keys, and they gave us the keys.’”

“While Corus has made progress in disposing of two foreclosures, more could be coming. In late January, Corus said it expected to begin foreclosure proceedings on as many as three loans in early 2008.”

“It has taken title to a condo-apartment project in San Diego. A Phoenix property is winding its way through the courts, and one in Tampa is on a ‘long journey through the court,’ Glickman said. Both of those are apartments being converted to condos.”

The Washington Business Journal. “A New York-based investment company has picked up a Rockville residential building for millions of dollars less than the distressed seller paid for it in 2005. Like dozens of other multifamily developers in the region and across the country, the buyer plans to take the building out of the condo market and put it back where it started — in the rental apartment market.”

“The would-be condo building, called the Monterey, went bust last May, after its then-owner failed to make payments to a mezzanine lender. Triton paid $117 million, or nearly $271,000 a unit, for the 432-unit building in November 2005, and then spent as much as $30 million renovating it to compete in the condo market. The buyer plunked down $97 million for the property.”

“Since mid-2006, 156 condo projects were either canceled or turned into rental apartment buildings, taking more than 31,000 condo units off the market, said William Rich, a VP at Delta Associates. The flips and busts have left a little more than 16,000 condo units on the market in the metro area.”

“‘Reducing the condo supply helps other developers in the submarket, but it also shakes the confidence of buyers when they see a building that they were looking to live in as a condo [become] an apartment,’ Rich said.”

Investors Business Daily. “Developers are putting some communities on hold for lack of demand, incentives may not provide good value, and prices are still falling. Buyer beware, real estate agents say. Be informed and very, very cautious. What looks like a bargain might be a bad bet.”

“One risk, especially realistic now, is that a builder could mothball the project, leaving would-be residents in a lurch and those who’ve already moved in stuck, surrounded by vacant lots. Pulte Homes, D.R. Horton CTX and other big developers have all been mothballing communities during this dramatic real estate downturn.”

“At the end of February, Centex stopped building at its Cypress at Kavala Ranch development in Rancho Cordova, Calif., near Sacramento. Pulte has mothballed 58 communities, executives told analysts. Forty-six of the communities ‘have never been opened,’ Chief Financial Officer Roger Cregg said on the late-January call. That leaves 12 opened but now sitting unfinished.”

“Near Lake Tahoe, the new luxury communities of Old Greenwood and Gray’s Crossing are both Mello-Roos Districts. These developments among others in the Truckee, Calif., vicinity also are subject to town transfer taxes that can run 0.25% to 1.75% of a home’s sale price, says David Hipkins, a local agent.”

“‘New developments can have a lot of hidden extras, especially in California,’ Hipkins said. ‘This is the way cash-strapped counties and municipalities generate additional revenue.’”

The Dallas Morning News. “Dallas-Fort Worth homebuilders are packing away their hammers, dramatically reducing the number of homes they are building in the area. Fort Worth-based D.R. Horton Inc., which was the lead builder in North Texas in 2006, chopped its starts in 2007 by 57 percent – from more than 4,800 to fewer than 2,100 units last year.”

“Centex Corp., which topped the builder list in 2007, reduced its starts almost 30 percent to 2,170 homes. Florida-based Lennar Corp., which started almost 3,000 homes in Dallas-Fort Worth in 2006, began only about 800 last year. That’s a drop of more than 70 percent.”

“Texas A&M University economist Mark Dotzour would like to see even more restraint. ‘There are some that haven’t cut back very much at all,’ Dr. Dotzour said.”

“He frets that in some neighborhoods, ‘builders are still bringing too much product into a market that may not need it currently.’”

From Reuters. “Fremont General Corp said on Friday that U.S. banking regulators declared its banking unit undercapitalized and has required the company to raise money or find a buyer in two months.”

“Fremont, which earlier this month received default notices related to $3.15 billion of subprime mortgages and said its survival could be threatened if it were sued, said that on Wednesday the company received a directive from the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corp requiring it to take corrective action by May 26.”

“Fremont had been one of the 10 largest U.S. subprime mortgage lenders until regulators, including the FDIC, ordered it to stop risky lending last March.”

“The Oregonian. “A newly surfaced memo from banking giant JPMorgan Chase provides a rare glimpse into the mentality that fueled the mortgage crisis. The memo’s title says it all: ‘Zippy Cheats & Tricks.’”

“It is a primer on how to get risky mortgage loans approved by Zippy, Chase’s in-house automated loan underwriting system. The secret to approval? Inflate the borrowers’ income or otherwise falsify their loan application.”

“Even if the memo was penned by a single employee, it illustrates an attitude prevalent in certain corners of the mortgage industry during the boom years. Some local mortgage brokers view the memo as vindication. Brokers have argued they’ve been unfairly blamed for the lax lending standards that led to a wave of defaults. The large national lenders drove the weakening standards, they argue.”

“The Chase memo is ‘a perfect example of one of the big five banks out and out telling mortgage brokers to commit fraud,’ said Todd Williams, a broker in Portland. ‘And this has been going on for years.’”

From Cox News. “The home foreclosure rate will rise for at least another year and residential real estate prices won’t improve until 2010, said Frank Nothaft, chief economist for Freddie Mac.”

“‘We’re likely to have worse news’ on foreclosures throughout 2008, Nothaft said Thursday in a speech. As a result, homeowners will see ‘huge increases in the average amount of time it takes to sell a house.’”

“With so many properties sitting on the market, families that want to move before 2010 will find that ‘it’s a lot harder to sell a home,’ he said. ‘It’ll take some time to wear down this inventory.’”

From MarketWatch. “Returning to lecterns around the country after the self-imposed silence before and after rate policy meetings, one Fed official said hopes of a short and shallow downturn were probably misguided. Another said that the Fed’s hands-off approach to asset bubbles not might be such a good idea.”

“Atlanta Fed president Dennis Lockhart said that his previous forecast of a turnaround by mid-year was probably too optimistic. ‘The recovery in growth I had expected in the second half of this year may be delayed,’ he said.”

“Home prices most likely wouldn’t bottom out until then and ‘preconditions’ of stability in financial markets were likely to be absent until the fourth quarter as well.”

“Minneapolis Fed president Gary Stern called Thursday for a reexamination of the view that it was impossible for a central bank to uncover an asset bubble before it burst.”

“That viewpoint has been dominant at the Fed over the last two decades. In basic terms, the theory was that any central bank attempt to pop a bubble before it got too big might do more harm than good.”

“Stern said he was reviewing this long-standing belief in wake of the fallout from the plunge in housing prices and the earlier collapse in technology stocks. ‘I suspect there may be practical, albeit far from infallible, ways to identify excesses in asset prices,’ Stern said.”

“‘It is not-clear, however, that such policies would necessarily pass a cost-benefit test, for actions to limit or reduce asset prices quite likely would have implications for economywide growth and employment,’ he said. ‘But then, so, of course, do asset-price collapse,’ he noted.”

“Stern, the longest-serving (Fed) policy maker, said in a speech yesterday that it’s possible ‘to build support’ for practices ‘designed to prevent excesses.’”

“For Fed policy makers, ‘the consequences of their permissiveness have become so disastrous that they simply can’t keep singing the same old tune in public,’ said Tom Schlesinger, executive director at the Financial Markets Center.”

“Stern’s comments show how the credit freeze has forced officials to scrutinize long-held philosophies about the Fed’s role in markets, and even ask how their current policies may undercut those views.”

“‘As a risk manager, the Fed needs to take account of both directions, not just dealing with the aftermath,’ said Bruce Kasman, chief economist at JPMorgan Chase & Co. in New York. ‘We have had two asset-prices bubbles in the last 10 years that have had big implications for the Fed’s desire for a more stable macroeconomy.’”

“For two decades, the ruling philosophy has been former Chairman Alan Greenspan’s. ‘I have always said if we could defuse a nascent asset bubble, I would be all for it,’ Greenspan, 82, said in an e- mailed response to a question yesterday. ‘The reason I am against is that in my experience it cannot be done. I know of no occasion when such actions have been successful.’”

“The Federal Reserve must exercise its supervisory authority over banks in order to gain access to confidential financial information that will enable it to make sound decisions, a top central bank official said.”

“Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren said in prepared remarks on Friday that public earnings statements often do not offer enough of a basis for prudent policy.”

“‘While U.S. banks report detailed information on their balance sheets and their income statements, these reports do not provide sufficient information to allow central banks to really discern how banks are responding to problems,’ Rosengren said in remarks for delivery to the Bank of Korea and Bank of International Settlements Seminar.”

“Rosengren said the turbulence was difficult to foresee because bank models focused solely on their exposure to riskier assets like subprime mortgages, ignoring the possible knock-on effects on other sectors.”

“‘What these stress tests crucially failed to capture was the effect of house price declines on the large holdings of highly rated securities that global banks held — the products of mortgage securitization activities, with their payment streams ultimately tied to the performance of subprime loans,’ he said.”

“The belief that housing prices would never fall on a national basis, which permeated even the Fed itself, was partly to blame for this underestimation of risk, Rosengren said.”




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96 Comments »

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2008-03-28 12:58:49

So… how many months until KB is BK?

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-03-28 13:08:18

I don’t know, but one thing that has changed in the past quarter or two with these big builders is the losses are starting to exceed the writedowns, which was never the case earlier.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2008-03-28 13:13:50

I suspect we’ll see the first of the big nationals go down before August this year.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-28 14:05:17

Anyone want to start a dead pool?

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Comment by oxide
2008-03-28 14:35:06

Beazer first, by late summer. Centex next. 70% drop in Texas? There’s only so much builder bailout money. At some point these companies are going to be auctioned just for the value of the tools.

 
Comment by talon
2008-03-28 16:31:32

“Beazer first, by late summer.”

Hope so. I have August puts.

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-03-28 16:35:00

Sleezer goes down first!

 
Comment by Debtin'Nation
2008-03-28 19:36:43

What about Standard Pacific? Aren’t they in huge trouble?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-28 14:13:17

Brings to mind the watershed moment in local used home sales markets when foreclosures exceed the sales.

 
 
Comment by smf
2008-03-28 13:19:13

Funny and true story:

Not too long ago we did a nice office for a national homebuilder. This was 2005.

Last year, they decided to sublease 1/2 their brand new office space.

This year, they left it altogether and moved to a much smaller space.

 
Comment by Nozferatu
2008-03-28 15:21:28

Hopefully soon.

 
Comment by Kid Clu
2008-03-28 16:33:13

All builders, not just KB, are in trouble because the smaller community banks, who originate the lions share of residential constuction loans, are no longer lending for spec houses.

 
 
Comment by polly
2008-03-28 13:11:02

“Like dozens of other multifamily developers in the region and across the country, the buyer plans to take the building out of the condo market and put it back where it started — in the rental apartment market.”

I think I just found the place the go to get nice low comps for when I need to negociate my lease renewal next year. Or I might move. A solid older rental building spruced up for sale and then put back out to rent might not be a bad place to live. I think I still have a flyer from when they started sales…the 3 bedroom I liked started in the high 600’s. Wonder if I could get it for $1300 a month?

Pondering the mess - we just might be able to get some lower rents to make up for the price increases at the local grocery stores.

 
Comment by smf
2008-03-28 13:21:35

Why are so many still expecting that buyers will materialize?

I mean, there weren’t 30,000 houses bought by 30,000 buyers. There were 30,000 houses bought by 20,000 buyers. But these people are walking around assuming there were 30,000 buyers and wondering how to get those 10,000 phantom buyers to ‘get off the fence’.

News for you: It won’t happen.

Comment by Rob
2008-03-28 14:13:54

“There were 30,000 houses bought by 20,000 buyers”

And of those 20,000 buyers, half will end up giving the house up to the bank. So we’ll soon have almost 30,000 houses bought by the banks. Thanks, banks! I’ll take mine 70% off and you pay closing cost, mmkay?

 
Comment by JohnF
2008-03-28 15:21:04

I don’t know about expecting the buyers to materialize…probably hoping would be a better choice of words.

It occurs to me that a whole chunk of “potential buyers” are out of the game for the next few years after they get thrown out of their homes. To be fair, they probably shouldn’t have bought anything in the first place.

I think there is probably another large segment of potential buyers that over-extended themselves, and they will be out of the game too for a while.

What I wonder is whoever is buying now is eating away at the potential buyer’s pool and what happens in the summer if inventory increases substantially with no similar increase in transactions? I think that is what is going to happen and them things will get even worse.

Comment by smf
2008-03-28 15:33:19

I have already seen two cases of foreclosed homes coming back to the market at a higher price.

In one, the jacked up the price $50K a month after purchase, and did nothing to the house.

I think this gives an idea of what will happen to the market this summer.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-03-28 15:51:54

whole chunk of “potential buyers”

The Other chunk of “potential buyers” are those of us/renters sitting on the sidelines waiting for the prices to get real.

I like your economic wordsmith!!

Comment by Michael Emmel
2008-03-30 13:03:15

Considering the US as a whole has a negative savings rate. The number of people saving up to pay 20% down on a house has to be vanishing small. And we will have more inventory than ever. So house prices will drop until a lot more people have 20% down for a house. You figure that 20k is a obtainable goal for savings this means 100k for most decent homes.
Which is about where we where before the bubble.

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Comment by exeter
2008-03-28 13:47:56

As the JPMChase memo illustrates, I’ll stand by my assertion that the housing run of 2001-2005 was an pre-planned, engineered event at the very top of govt. and banking interests. They knew exactly how this thing would wind up and unwind and they know what will happen tomorrow. I get a kick out those who make disparaging comments regarding the Fed as if they are incompetent. To the contrary; the Fed and international banking interests are the smartest $$$ guys on the planet. They know exactly what they’re doing.

Comment by warlock
2008-03-28 14:21:26

You really wouldn’t think that if you actually met some of these people.

 
Comment by CasaTostada
2008-03-28 14:25:17

The most powerful and pervasive conspiracies are those that are tacitly understood, and simply require that people similarly situated define the rules in a way that suits their ends. No smoking gun required, just a willingness to turn a blind eye while others, not culpable, get shafted.

 
Comment by az_owner
2008-03-28 14:25:31

I just don’t think they are that smart. If so explain how the CEO of Bear Stearns whose known wealth went from $1 billion to $60 million was convinced to go along with it all? Did he and his wife get injections of the “super secret inner circle rich-man illuminati long life syrum” that will allow him to live to 150, thus making the money insignificant in comparison?

What could possibly convince him to go along with a plan that would destroy his personal wealth by 94%, unless even he was not “at the very top of govt. and banking interests”? Geez, who is then?

Exeter, I think we are seeing here that the emporer(s) have no clothes.

Comment by CasaTostada
2008-03-28 14:35:06

The issue of whether Wall Street/mortgage lenders/RE agents acted illegally and in concert to better themselves at the expense of others is one thing; I think they did. Did they accurately estimated how things would turn out? Maybe not. In anything of this nature, there will be those who are part of the effort but aren’t smart enough to benefit from it.

 
Comment by gab
2008-03-28 14:39:04

Have to agree. And let’s put the tacitly understood “plunge-protection team” in the camp with Jimmy Cayne.

 
Comment by BP
2008-03-28 14:45:06

So Bush is an idiot and an evil genius at the same time. Please pick one so your arguments doesn’t look so silly. From your posts I gather you think the administration has sharks with lasers attached to their heads swimming in the White House pool.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-28 14:55:22

No, those are bad tempered Sea Bass.

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Comment by santacruzsux
2008-03-28 15:00:45

C’mon throw him a friggin bone guys!

 
 
Comment by az_owner
2008-03-28 15:13:45

Are you talking to me? I think you may have misread some of my posts.

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Comment by Blano
2008-03-28 15:26:40

He’s just looking for another way to blame the Bushies and Republicans for everything. Democrats are blameless. Nothing new here.

It would require too many people to keep quiet too long.

If he was just talking Wall Street, I could see the point.

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Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-03-28 16:58:58

This what always seems so strange to me, that the left simultaneously views Bush as some sub-human retarded chimp, incapable of understanding ANYTHING, and in the next second they hate him for being the evil genius who has thwarted them continously, constantly, and notoriously for SEVEN YEARS. Doen’t put the asset of “logic” in the camp of the left, but I guess it never was there in the first place, come to think about it.

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Comment by jbunniii
2008-03-28 17:49:17

The two views are commensurable if you consider Bush himself to be stupid and his administration/handlers to be intelligent/evil.

 
Comment by Tulpenwoerde
2008-03-28 18:43:40

Utter nonsense. I can’t think of anyone who uses “genius” and Bush in the same sentence — ever. “Liar,” maybe, but certainly not “genius.” Cheney and Rove may be closer cases.

And read the above posts — nobody even mentioned Bush until BP a few slots above — apropos of nothing.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-03-28 19:47:58

BP his AE’s and others predictably wheeled out the stretcher and traige station just as I forecasted. I’d find herding turds for a living far more entertaining than construction management. If I could only find a way to profit from it.

 
 
 
Comment by Nozferatu
2008-03-28 15:25:36

Some people lost money in the circle, others got VERY VERY rich…even in the circle, not everyone benefits. And what he has is only what you know…I’m sure they have his back.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-03-28 15:54:16

Are his ‘wealth’ offshored?

Comment by desertdweller
2008-03-28 15:56:40

’scuse me… is not are, Is BS CEO’s wealth offshore? ie: safe?

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Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-03-28 15:03:46

Exeter, with all due respect I think these guys are as smart as a train on rails. When everything’s going fine, there’s no smaller forces that can stop the train. So I think you’re confusing power with intelligence — because look what’s happened now that the tracks have been removed. Many have used the Trading Places example for our esteemed banking fraternity and I think that’s more accurate:

Randolph Duke: Money isn’t everything, Mortimer.
Mortimer Duke: Oh, grow up.
Randolph Duke: Mother always said you were greedy.
Mortimer Duke: She meant it as a compliment.

 
 
Comment by dimedropped (Orlando)
2008-03-28 13:51:48

“It is a primer on how to get risky mortgage loans approved by Zippy, Chase’s in-house automated loan underwriting system. The secret to approval? Inflate the borrowers’ income or otherwise falsify their loan application.”

Now Zippy has turned into a Zippo.

Comment by kpom
2008-03-28 14:17:49

Reminds me of that great cartoon character, Zippy The Pinhead!

To quote Zippy: “We’re all adults here - let’s discuss real estate!”

 
 
Comment by Oakie
2008-03-28 14:01:24

From Cox News. “The home foreclosure rate will rise for at least another year and residential real estate prices won’t improve until 2010, said Frank Nothaft, chief economist for Freddie Mac.”

What is he talking about ? Prices are improving every day.

Comment by oxide
2008-03-28 14:37:59

That’s the spin in the little Real Estate book from toney Vail, CO. The little pictures now say “Price Improved!”

Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-28 15:06:33

“Price Improved!”

For who ?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-28 14:08:12

“Pulte has mothballed 58 communities, executives told analysts. Forty-six of the communities ‘have never been opened,’ Chief Financial Officer Roger Cregg said on the late-January call. That leaves 12 opened but now sitting unfinished.”

Mothball risk — who’d've thunk?

Comment by dimedropped (Orlando)
2008-03-28 15:23:07

Betcha someone will buy their residual lots for 40 cents on the dollar…that buyer would be the one holding the most Pulte debt….mothballed indeed.

Comment by JohnF
2008-03-28 15:34:54

This happened in SoCal in the early 90’s.

Large developers (that were still in business) bought the cheap bonds (of insolvent developers/builders) that had recourse to undeveloped land/lots. After the bankruptcy they had paid pennies on the dollar, because the bonds were in default, and got the land as compensation.

An indirect way to purchase cheap dirt…….

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-28 14:11:24

“The belief that housing prices would never fall on a national basis, which permeated even the Fed itself, was partly to blame for this underestimation of risk, Rosengren said.”

They should know by now that while bubble creation is straightforward, targeting wealth effects to particular asset classes is challenging.

 
Comment by salinasron
2008-03-28 14:12:48

O/T: traveling across town I heard on the radio that in Navada lenders were offering people moving out of their home on foreclosure $1000 if they didn’t trash their house. More fodder for a Hollywood movie.

Comment by Yuppie NOVA Renter
2008-03-28 14:41:47

Interesting - I was wondering if it would come to this. I’m thinking about buying a REO house in late 08 or 2009, and for a house warming gift to myself, I’m legally buying a handgun. I hope I never, ever have any reason to use it, but I one thing in the housing market is rising - motive to harass the people who end up with your house.

Comment by Troy
2008-03-28 18:14:26

In 2003 some punk(s) broke into the house I shared, during a weekday (but ran off when I got up to see who was there).

Housemate (the owner) then lent me his Beretta & gunsafe. Point of a gun isn’t to blow somebody away, it’s to keep the situation copacetic until the police arrive.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2008-03-28 15:14:06

If they are willing to give up $1000 for that then they should allow responsible tennants to live there for free.

The tennants could pay for their stay by keeping the place up and keeping the vandals at bay.

A win-win, IMO.

Comment by HARM
2008-03-28 15:27:32

That’s crazy-talk. Banksters “don’t want to be landlords”, remember?

 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-03-28 15:28:15

I think some mention of that was in a thread today or yesterday.

 
Comment by Max
2008-03-29 03:03:27

Is torching still allowed? I’m thinking there must be some sort of a loophole that allows you to collect the $1000 and still have fun.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-03-28 14:14:58

“I know of no occasion when such actions have been successful.’”

If one successfully prevented asset bubbles from inflating, say, by leaning into the wind, how could one measure success? It is impossible to measure something which never occurred.

 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-28 14:16:19

‘The reason I am against is that in my experience it cannot be done. I know of no occasion when such actions have been successful.’”

Anyone know of an example of bubbleboy even trying to control an asset bubble let alone pop one ? And the horrible consequences he hints at ?

Comment by warlock
2008-03-28 14:23:44

You can’t prove that you prevented something that didn’t happen. On the other hand, you can be fired for what is perceived to have happened as a consequence of your direct actions.

The fed chairman losing his job is obviously a horrible consequence to all those involved.

Comment by HARM
2008-03-28 15:29:20

“all those involved” = the Chairman

Correct! :lol:

 
 
Comment by turnoutthelights
2008-03-28 14:29:55

the horrible consequences he hints at: a reduction in obscene profits for the boys at the bank.
No bubble=no 7 figures=no damn good

 
Comment by Hoz
2008-03-28 15:09:19

I get mildly bothered by Mr. Greenspan’s assertion. It is the policy of the Riksbank and of the BOJ (BOJ = lamest of the central banks and a tool of Washington) to prevent asset bubble formation. If they can identify bubbles, why can’t the Federal Reserve bank?

 
Comment by Thomas
2008-03-28 16:37:38

Arguably, the Fed’s monetary policy from late 1928 to early 1931 was an attempt to pop a speculative bubble in equities (which actually weren’t at excessive P/E ratios even at the 1929 market peak).

Oops.

Comment by jbunniii
2008-03-28 18:31:35

(which actually weren’t at excessive P/E ratios even at the 1929 market peak)

The S&P 500 average P/E ratio in 1929 was 33, which was its high water mark for the next 70 years or so. Just because it got even more excessive in 1999 doesn’t mean that 1929 wasn’t excessive. Without the housing bubble, we probably would have had a very sluggish past eight years, not quite 1930s style (unless nature chose to conjure a disaster on par with the dust bowl) but unpleasant nonetheless. The economy didn’t dodge the bullet altogether; it merely hit “snooze” for 8 years. Now it’s time to wake up.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-28 14:24:02

The bailout just can’t get any love:

http://forum.howdesign.com/tm.aspx?m=379081

Comment by az_owner
2008-03-28 15:20:43

That’s “The XXXXXXX just can’t…” around here. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-03-28 14:50:17

“The number of homes sold tumbled 43 percent in the quarter, KB Home said. The value of the company’s backlog… fell 59 percent. The number of homes in backlog tumbled 57 percent. Orders tumbled 83 percent in both KB Home’s Southwest region… KB Home got contracts for the most houses in the quarter in California. Still, orders in California fell 63 percent.”

That’s a whole lotta tumbling going on. Why, it’s like the Gymnastics of Doom! With medals and applause for the biiiiig winner, KB Homes.
I don’t even mind the overuse of the word, because it is such a pretty, pretty word for me to read on this windy Friday afternoon.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-28 15:01:54

sure beats reading “Snapped Up”……..Ugh

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-03-28 15:59:02

Yes… I always hated the term ” Snapped up” as if homes were potato chips consumed by wild piranha.

Comment by mikey
2008-03-28 16:21:01

WARNING ***Reading these comments can be dangerous to your Health***

the “as if homes were patato chips consumed by wild piranha” line sent milk into my nose. Thank goodness I hadn’t “”Snapped up” my chocolate chip cookies yet :)

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Comment by chilildoggg
2008-03-28 22:45:21

I always preferred the term “snatched.”

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-03-28 18:38:33

I also disliked “dropped,” as in “the FB dropped $800k on a McMansion.” The casual tone implies that $800k is pocket change for the FB, whereas in reality most FB’s didn’t have much more than actual pocket change to their names.

I do however like the current usage, to wit, “the FB’s house dropped $100k in value over the past 6 months.”

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-03-28 15:28:12

Once again, I’m glad I put my drink down before reading Olympiagal’s comment.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-03-28 16:18:11

yes, Gymnastics of doom has quite a ring to it.

 
 
Comment by Earl 288
2008-03-28 16:48:16

Olygal, You`re a gem!

 
 
Comment by Nozferatu
2008-03-28 15:14:47

A friend of mine today was debating with me about the housing market in So Cal…he claims that I’m wasting my time waiting to see drops of more than 20% AT BEST (from December 06 prices) in areas that are considered desirable to live in. I think and I HOPE it will be ALOT more than that..50% I hope…but I don’t know. He’s Chinese…lives in Roland Heights…so his culture may be different. For Asians, buying a home is everything…it’s a must. I now understand why they all have homes.

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-03-28 15:57:13

I recall a few years ago mowing the lawn of the house I rent. A chinese guy walked by, asked if I owned it ( for reasons I have no idea why) at which point I told him no, I rented. How much did I pay?-he asked. $1,500 for the whole house. He asked me why I didn’t consider buying. I told him because it was too expensive here and that sooner or later, the bubble was going to pop. He told me point-blank that ” real estate never goes down.”

I sorta wish he’d walk by now. It’d be interesting to see what he thinks now.

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-03-28 16:05:09

The other thing Chinese folks do is pay off their mortgages ASAP. So if it does go down a bit… BFD.

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-03-28 16:14:13

Well, the one thing I do notice a lot on my community is that by and large, most Chinese Americans drive crappy old 15 year old Camry’s, Civics, Corollas, and other bare-bones Japanese, dependable cars, and generally live frugally… but they almost always own the house they live in. Perhaps other Americans could learn a lot from their lifestyles.

But regardless of race or frugality, anyone buying a house today or over the last few years is an idiot, plain and simple.

Comment by Kirisdad
2008-03-28 16:37:40

A lot work in cash businesses so they don’t need the tax rightoff.

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Comment by Kirisdad
2008-03-28 16:39:24

sorry ‘write off’

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-03-28 18:44:03

I had a Chinese co-worker at my last company who was a strutting little dandy who loved to show off. He owned a $100k automobile; I like to assume that he used a HELOC to pay for it. Not sure if he had “wee dickie” syndrome or what - all my other Chinese co-workers were frugal to a fault, including bringing pauperish lunches to work featuring inscrutable meat and sometimes poultry that looked like sparrows or robins. But I digress.

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Comment by Lostcontrol
2008-03-29 05:38:25

Have you noticed foreign born Asians have this fascination with gambling? Other noted characteristics:Optomistic, risk-takers, and they in general rely on strong family ties as opposed to such things as insurance as backup to financial difficulties. Now, there American born children, thats a different story. They assimilate and adopt our bad attitudes about almost everything, imho.

PS: Might be slightly bias:former wife was a foreign born Asian.

 
 
Comment by lsheng
2008-03-28 16:51:23

Not to all Chinese house is a must. I will buy one if only if the following conditions are reached:
1. There is No uncertainty for immigration issue, which means only permanent residency will let me buy a permanent residence. Otherwise I will remain ready to move and change.
2. Only the rent for similar house is close to the interest paid for the house+HOA+maintenance(here I assume the property tax and the tax reduction are a wash), I will consider buying house. Otherwise I am happy renting and at the same time put money on inflation proof investments.

One thing can promote me buy a house is an imminent hyper-inflation. This one is tough to know, and now I am betting that it will not happen in close future. Otherwise, anyone who will have a job should buy a house.

For me buying a house for sake of not losing face is unwise. I only need to use a house not to own it. After all no one a bring a house with him in the end.

Comment by Nozferatu
2008-03-29 22:32:05

There is of course an exception to every rule you make. But by and large, every Asian I have come across insists on owning a home. And most are VERY frugal compared to other cultures…particularly white Americans. With the exception of Koreans and Japanese…they love to strut their stuff with designer clothing, drive brand new Lexus’s, Beemers, or Benzes..and I mean the BIG $90K + cars. Nothing short of it.

Then you have the others who have a home, a kid or two, and drive usually banged up minivans or something…always bring their lunch to work, never spend money on anything.

I personally couldn’t live that way. If having freedom to do other things in life means NOT buying a home anymore these days, then so be it. Life’s too short for me to waste it away in a yard that will prevent me from eating well, going out, traveling and seeing the world. Let others get “rich” materially while I get rich in experience and soul.

 
 
 
Comment by txchick57
2008-03-28 15:15:51

Don’t Blame the Fed for Subprime Problems

http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=291507506135021

Comment by Englishman in NJ
2008-03-28 15:40:26

So much blame to go around Chick

 
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2008-03-28 16:52:55

“community reinvestment act” how easily we forget.

Comment by exeter
2008-03-28 19:52:00

But never mention how State banking comissioners petitioned the Goober administration to reign in reckless lending practices in 2003.

Ooopsy.

 
Comment by dobly_down
2008-03-29 01:09:04

If this was just a subprime problem, just a low income area bubble, maybe I’d buy into this. But as anyone who reads this blog knows, that’s a complete and utter load of crap. This bubble happened at every income level and every demographic. Subprime may be where things first imploded, but anyone who thinks it will end there has clearly not been reading this site.

I’ve heard that idea floated before and every time it just makes me shake my head. It reeks of someone who didn’t get it before, and doesn’t get it now, looking at a mess they don’t understand and trying to blame somebody they don’t like.

 
 
Comment by edhopper
2008-03-29 09:30:15

What a straw man argument.
No one has said the Fed is to blame because they kept rates low. They’re are to blame because they failed to regulate the banking system and encouraged the use of ARMs and IO loans.
Pushing banks to loan to qualified minority applicants is not a problem and addresses an injustice. Creating an industry that dupes unqualified borrowers into taking mortgages they don’t understand and can’t afford is a problem. Too bad someone like the Fed didn’t intervene.

 
 
 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-03-28 16:03:52

Horton is slowing down here in Oregon. They were building in fits and starts last year, but have slowed again. They have inventory, which is moving, but very slowly.
Centex actaully builds better stuff, at least in this market. We have Horton townhouses here with two stories over a garage Where would you expect the hot water heater to be? In the garage, right? Sorry. Try above the third floor, in the attic!!! Furnace up there too. Just a little note for you future landlords… that hot water heater will be BIG bucks to replace.

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-03-28 16:17:05

I was in East Oakland ( which is sawed-ff shotgun territory)and smack-dab in the middle was this sort of upscale looking housing development with 20-30 Mcmansion frames going up all at once. It was either KB, Centex, or one of those other builders. Now who in the hell is going to buy one of those is beyond me because they might get to buy a Mcmansion for slightly less, but they’ll have to do some bullet dodging too.

 
 
Comment by dimedropped (Orlando)
2008-03-28 17:18:49

This is my third or fourth bust in RE. Appraising today is nothing short of a nightmare. I write epistles explaining the market to the bubbleheads. In some cases I write the same thing 3 times in a different way to drive home the point to the underwriters.

I received a review from a lender asking me to cite my sources and detail the decline as to how much and how far it would go.

I wanted to ask ” do you read, watch the news, go on the internet for information.” If not, then you are in the wrong position. Instead I simply cited Case-Shiller for basic information and then I explained that I have been in 3-4 downturns and this one will make the others seems like a fantasy. As to how far and how long I stated, “this all depends on the powers that be staying out of the process. The more they meddle the longer and more precipitous it will become.”

The lenders are nervous wrecks and looking for ways out of loans. We are clearly at the other end of the pendulum swing. I have no idea how long this is going to last but if they do not allow this thing to burn itself out quickly on it’s own, it is going to be like a smouldering rope.

 
Comment by Kid Clu
2008-03-28 17:37:41

OK, this quote finally put me over the edge, and now I have to do my Fed rant.
“‘While U.S. banks report detailed information on their balance sheets and their income statements, these reports do not provide sufficient information to allow central banks to really discern how banks are responding to problems,’ Rosengren said in remarks for delivery to the Bank of Korea and Bank of International Settlements Seminar.”

I am rather ashamed to admit it, but I worked briefly for the Fed
( before resigning in disgust) as a bank examiner in their ”Safety & Soundness” department. One of the main parts of their examination was to take a balance sheet that the bank in question had prepared and sent to the Fed and compare it to a balance sheet for the same date that was given to the on-site examiners by the bank. The balance sheet given on-site had to match up to the balance sheet that the bank had sent in to the Fed. This data was then re-entered into a form on the Fed’s lead examiner’s laptop. I was asked to do this for a largish bank, & it took me about 2 hours, because I was working very slowly, having never done this before. When I was done, the lead examiner was in shock, because it apparently took most other Fed employees a week or more to do this. (How I still cannot fathom, as it could not take more than a day to complete even for if someone was heavily into meditation).

Then I said okay, where are the server downloads so I can crosscheck and verify these figures.? There were none, I was told, because we do not have the equipment to do this in a secure manner,and even if we did, the bank could get upset with us if we messed up anything with their system So I said, doesn’t anybody have a problem with the fact that we are comparing a balance sheet given to us by the bank with another balance sheet given to us by the bank ? No, the bank would not lie to the Fed, it could get in big trouble for that.

This is the reason I personally never wonder why we are in the mess that we are in today.

 
Comment by sammy
2008-03-29 10:23:22

Grand Housing Rescue Plan by the Govmint
1.legalise all illegal alens who have no crime record if they buy a house (existing /new) with 20% down payment.
2.Offer Green card Permanent resident scheme to all the global citizens (income proof+crime free police report from the country of origin must) who buy $500k house with 20% down payment!
any takers!!

 
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