April 3, 2008

People Bought More Than They Should Have

WCNC reports from North Carolina. “Shattered glass and plywood-covered windows are a common sight in the Windy Ridge subdivision. More than half of the owners have defaulted on their mortgage payment in the last five years, according to real estate records reviewed by WCNC. City leaders blame absentee landlords, transient residents, and predatory lending for the rapid decay of the 5-year-old subdivision.”

“‘We know that (foreclosures) will only get worse,’ said Susan Burgess, Charlotte Mayor Pro-Tem said…adding the foreclosure problem is not limited to Windy Ridge.”

“Homeowners who have stayed in Windy Ridge have seen a decline in the value of neighboring properties. A house that originally sold for $108,000 recently sold at auction for just $58,300, online records show.”

From News 14 in North Carolina. “City leaders are taking aim at stopping the rising foreclosure rate in Charlotte. In the last seven years, the numbers of foreclosure filings are up 244 percent in Charlotte, from about 2,300 to nearly 8,000.”

“‘Being that prices are so steep, it’s driving people out of the neighborhood,’ said Rodrigo Robinson, who lives with his grandparents at a home in Windy Ridge. ‘Because of the foreclosed homes and the boarded up houses, that doesn’t look good for any neighborhood.’”

“Mayor Pat McCrory said he wants to target landlords who allow homes to fall into ruin or become havens for criminal activity.”

The Charlotte Observer from North Carolina. “The developers of a 75-unit condo project in South End have stopped sales and will build it as apartments instead. ‘We are returning deposits and releasing buyers from their contracts,’ said Terrence Llewellyn, whose Llewellyn Development is doing the project.”

“Other multifamily developers have adopted strategies similar to Chelsea’s and are shifting to apartments, said real estate analyst Frank Warren of Warren & Associates. In the Charlotte area, the apartment vacancy rate rose two percentage points to 9.2 percent over the past year due mainly to a flurry of new construction, especially along the light-rail line.”

“‘If Chelsea’s developers have any challenges,’ Warren said, ‘It’s going to be the potential for an oversupply of apartments in the South End market.’”

The Washington Post. “A new form of sightseeing is catching on in the Washington suburbs. They are known as foreclosure tours or home buyer tours. One that originated yesterday at a Northern Virginia Long and Foster office was labeled ‘The Centreville Gateway Foreclosure Tour of Homes.’”

“‘The benefit of this is that everyone is here at one time,’ said Debbie Jeffries, a Centreville resident who was hunting for something with enough garage space for her mint-condition 1985 Lincoln Town Car. ‘I want rock-bottom prices.’”

“One stop on the tour was a massive townhouse in Centreville that sold for $519,000 in February 2007 and is now listed at $399,000. Then there was a hearty brick rambler on a quiet Manassas Park street with a huge yard, hardwood floors and a finished basement. Asking price: $284,000.”

“‘As a buyer, you can still get in with zero money out of your pocket,’ said Kellian McIlwrath, a loan officer from Wells Fargo-affiliated Prosperity Mortgage, adding that banks are so eager to sell foreclosed properties that they are offering cash back to provide borrowers with enough for a down payment and closing costs.”

“After years of climbing, Frederick County home prices fell 2 percent in 2007. The figures didn’t surprise real estate appraiser Wayne Six. ‘We knew this was going to happen,’ said Six. The slump, he said, is a correction to the double-digit-percentage run-up in house prices from June 2001 to June 2005.”

“Doris White, supervisor of assessments for Frederick County, said she has seen a big increase in the number of foreclosures. ‘In every pile of deeds, I’m probably going to have five or six that are foreclosures,’ she said, noting that she has never experienced this in 25 years of assessment work.”

“‘People bought more than they should have when the market was at its peak,’ said Mary Richeimer, owner of an Urbana agency that represents only buyers. Now, she said, the foreclosures are adding to the glut of homes on the market.”

“Some of Richeimer’s clients prefer houses in poorer condition that sell for 25 to 30 percent less than comparable homes in good condition, she said, because they can make some repairs and show what she called ’some instant equity.’”

“Richeimer said she is also seeing more attempts at short sales. But getting a bank to accept a short sale, in which it forgives the seller the difference between the price of the house and the higher mortgage, is often wishful thinking on the seller’s part, she said.”

The Asbury Park Press from New Jersey. “After languishing for nearly two years, frozen in a declining market, more than 50 Lakewood homes were put up for sale Wednesday in the largest auction yet of properties seized from bankrupt real estate mogul Solomon Dwek.”

“Yet by the end, the banks still owned at least a third of the properties. Of the first 25 auctioned off, only 10 fell into the hands of individual bidders. The rest were either bought back or kept by the dozen banks because many offers fell short of mortgage amounts. Amboy Bank alone took home nine of its 17 parcels.”

“The first auctioned home — a three-bedroom condominium with a new kitchen on Governors Road — went for $155,000 to a mother buying it for her daughter. Later a young couple closed at $165,000 on the home they were renting on Downing Street.”

“After being outbid three times, Alexander Vargas, 29, and his fiancee, Mila Borisevich, 27, finally purchased a three-bedroom ranch house on Morris Avenue for $200,000 — their preset limit. After May 19, the couple can move into their first home, putting to use a house that has sat empty under an investor’s ownership.”

“‘It needs some new paint and carpet and it’s ready to go,’ Vargas, an Arby’s manager, said.”

“When Charles Stanziale, as one of the auctioneers Wednesday, cried ‘I’m shocked’ when a house on Tudor Court failed to get more than $171,000, investor Pat Fasano of Asbury Park scoffed, saying, ‘You’re in Lakewood. Where do you think you are, Beverly Hills?’”

“Overall, Stanziale considered the auction a success. ‘We got a lot of interest,’ he said. ‘Many were low-grade properties and we were lucky we got anything for them.’”

From 13 WHAM.com in New York. “Developers hoped to have all 23 lots on Northampton Estates in Ogden built and sold by now. Two years later, there are still nine lots left.”

“Housing starts in Monroe County are the lowest they’ve been since at least 1990, according to the Rochester Home Builders’ Association. In the last five years, there’s been a dramatic drop in single-family home construction. In 2002, 1,474 single-family home permits were issued, compared to 821 in 2007.”

“Rick Herman of RHBA, downplayed the numbers, pointing out that Rochester is in much better shape than some cities where there’s a glut in new homes.”

“‘I think it’s an adjustment period that we’re going through. The early 90s and mid-90s were really boom areas,’ Herman said. ‘We’ve also seen a number of those units go to outlying counties.’”

WCBS TV in New York. “The subprime mortgage mess is being blamed for a big spike in the number of foreclosures in Westchester County.”

“Westchester County Clerk Tim Idoni says foreclosure filings are up 39 percent over the first quarter of last year and up more than 200 percent over the first quarter of 2005. Many filings are hitting homes like 82 Maple Lane in Yonkers – in low-income neighborhoods.”

“‘Lower income areas, particularly in Mount Vernon and Yonkers have been preyed upon by some mortgage brokers who did not qualify the residents properly,’ Idoni said.”

“Nassau and Suffolk lead suburban counties with the highest number of foreclosure filings. But Putnam County has the highest foreclosure rate. The foreclosure rate in Westchester County is about average for New York State, and New York is doing a lot better than many other places.”

“Nevada, California and Florida lead the nation in terms of the foreclosure rate. New Jersey is ranked 13th, Connecticut 14th and New York all the way down at 30th.”

“For Matt Mickelson of Ossining, the American dream of home ownership has taken a distinctly nightmarish turn. He blames the broker who sold him a complicated mortgage that could reset to a higher rate at any moment.”

“‘I’m on the edge of foreclosure all the time because I don’t know when the next shoe is gonna drop,’ Mickelson said. ‘When they say hey you’re paying $2,500 now but next month it’s $5,000, just because that’s the way the ball bounces. Every day is like living with a gun to your head.’”

From Bloomberg. “Manhattan apartment sales plunged the most in 18 years in the first quarter as buyers faced the prospect of a recession and job cuts at Wall Street securities firms. Financial companies have cut at least 34,000 jobs in the past nine months as losses and writedowns related to mortgage- backed securities climbed to at least $230 billion.”

“Wall Street drives Manhattan real estate, with the median apartment price roughly tracking bonuses paid by investment banks since 1997, said New York-based real estate appraiser Miller Samuel President Jonathan Miller.”

“‘It’s not that they’re not looking, but there is no sense of urgency,’ said Prudential Douglas Elliman CEO Dottie Herman. ‘If you continue to see inventory rise, that would be a sign that you are going to see a price dip.’”

“‘What we are seeing now is buyers who are emboldened to be more aggressive in their offers,’ said Pam Liebman, Corcoran’s CEO. ‘They don’t hesitate to bid lower and sellers now will have to decide whether or not they want to lower their prices.’”

“‘There is no question 2007 was the record year for real estate in New York City,’ Liebman said. ‘I don’t think any of us will be surprised if 2008 doesn’t hold up in comparison.’”




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123 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-04-03 07:43:48

‘Prices on Fifth Avenue jumped 63 percent in the quarter to a median of $6.5 million, and on Park Avenue the median jumped 23 percent to $3.3 million. The median price of lofts fell 12 percent to almost $1.45 million, Corcoran said.’

‘The luxury market also saw big increases, largely due to multimillion dollar condominium sales at the recently converted Plaza, and at architect Robert A.M. Stern’s 15 Central Park West.’

‘The median price of a luxury apartment rose 46 percent to almost $5 million, Miller Samuel said. Corcoran’s estimate was an increase of 18 percent to $4.4 million. Both companies consider apartments of more than $2.8 million as luxury.’

There is an interesting parallel to the internet bubble in Manhattan. I recall there was a brief but sharp drop in late 2006, I think. But then it took back off, and true to bubble patterns, it looks like a parabolic last run up. As Jim Rogers has pointed out, parabolic spikes are almost always followed by similar declines.

Comment by pressboardbox
2008-04-03 08:11:07

Not this time, Ben. Fed economic editing will see to it. No historical trend will stand in the way of the Fed. Alternate-reality era is upon us.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-04-03 09:14:17

The Feds are quite simply not in control.

 
 
Comment by robmypro
2008-04-03 09:42:04

Thanks to the Wall Street Gangsters the wealth of the nation is being consolidated in New York. This is flowing right into real estate. But as Wall Street implodes a bit I would expect prices to fall.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-04-03 11:24:39

With all the bailouts, the implosion will be slow and gradual. Which will give inflation time to provide another bailout.

Comment by robmypro
2008-04-03 14:21:56

Yep.

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Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2008-04-03 07:47:08

When I got home yesterday, I had a message on my answering machine about a friend who had just a few hours ago committed suicide. That particular person had invested big bucks into a development scheme. Although I don’t know the details behind the suicide, I can’t help but wondering if there is a connection with the investment.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-04-03 07:51:15

And here come the human tragedies!

Suicides, broken homes, and the children, oh, won’t someone please think of the children?

OK, that was a bit harsh but a little black humor is deserved, no?

Black humor is the new black, perhaps?

Comment by palmetto
2008-04-03 08:14:54

“OK, that was a bit harsh but a little black humor is deserved, no?”

NO! This was a friend of Doug’s.

I am sorry for your loss, Doug.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-04-03 08:17:20

Every FB is someone’s friend.

I’m sorry for Doug, very much so, but this unmitigated disaster knows no boundaries. We do what we can to cope.

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Comment by hd74man
2008-04-03 09:03:26

RE: oh, won’t someone please think of the children?

Children are all that REALLY matter in this world.

Signed-

United Coalition of US Soccer Moms for Higher Taxes*

(non-profit* LLP-)

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-04-03 10:12:01

Fascism in the 30’s was wrapped in nationalism. Attempts in that direction in the modern era are usually for “the children”.

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Comment by Vermontergal
2008-04-03 10:18:32

Did I say fascism??

Crippy, it’s time to get back to work.

We homeschool and had a mild run in with public school advocates this week. They were advocates to the point where they didn’t understand why you wouldn’t necessarily want to send your kids to the wonderful public school down the street or why sending kids to all day kindergarten might not be the hottest idea. It’s been on my mind (obviously).

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-04-03 11:08:13

You don’t think the school down the street is breeding Hitler Youth, do you? Just saying … public school was OK for me. Kids are smarter than they get credit for.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-04-03 11:23:12

Fascism>nationalism>phoney patriotism>sanctimonious platitudes

 
 
 
Comment by Incredulous
2008-04-03 09:42:00

“OK, that was a bit harsh but a little black humor is deserved, no?

“Black humor is the new black, perhaps?”

This isn’t black humor, it’s foot-in-the-mouth idiocy.

I was criticized the other day for saying there were some posters (I didn’t say they were a majority) on this blog who relish the misery (or potential misery) of failed real estate speculators. It sure didn’t take long to confirm my observation.

Comment by Rintoul
2008-04-03 10:22:31

I relish the misery. I have no problem with it. I am comfortable with myself relishing in the misery. We all make decisions in life and some people make stupid ones. It is my duty to laugh at those people.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-04-03 10:35:12

This isn’t black humor, it’s foot-in-the-mouth idiocy.

Possibly. Possibly not. Depends.

Do I personally relish the thought of RE speculators in misery?

In the abstract, almost certainly. Without a doubt.

In the specific, do I believe that many people did it out of economic desperation? Of course. What kind of moron wouldn’t? Heck, I know a few, and probably, so do you. So does everyone else on this blog.

Of such negotiations between abstract principles and specifics is life made. I suggest, not very humbly, that you learn to live with it.

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Comment by Incredulous
2008-04-03 14:28:02

“I suggest, not very humbly, that you learn to live with it.”

I don’t have to; you do. You live in your head, and reap the rewards of your own spite (karma). When one of your friends or loved ones dies, maybe you’ll get a nice little letter like the one you posted here.

My best friend killed herself (an hour after euthanizing her pets) because of financial problems. That was nine years ago, and it still upsets me to think about it. Don’t you wish you had known her so you could have shown up at the funeral to laugh at her, her dead pets, and her grief-stricken family?

“Of such negotiations between abstract principles and specifics is life made.”

What a pretentious pile of crap. Incidentally, humility is virtue, which perhap explains why you find it so difficult to express.

 
Comment by Shizo
2008-04-03 16:34:58

Commiting suicide is the most selfish act possible. And the person killed their pets, too??? I am sorry you had to deal with it, I truly am, but do I feel sorry for her? I can’t.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-04-04 04:42:41

Incredulous…. no truer words have been written on this blog. Thank you.

 
 
Comment by Shizo
2008-04-03 12:20:57

i live for it.

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Comment by Xiaoding
2008-04-03 12:39:28

“I was criticized the other day for saying there were some posters (I didn’t say they were a majority) on this blog who relish the misery (or potential misery) of failed real estate speculators. It sure didn’t take long to confirm my observation.”

Are you kidding me? I hope they eat a bullet! But thnx, Captain Obvious!

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Comment by Incredulous
2008-04-03 14:37:16

“Are you kidding me? I hope they eat a bullet! But thnx, Captain Obvious!”

Not kidding, and not you (obvious enough?). Today’s official self-perceived Center of the Universe is called Faster Pussycat, Sell, Sell.

You’re welcome, just the same.

 
 
 
 
Comment by rveils
2008-04-03 08:03:08

Sorry to hear about your friend, Doug.

 
Comment by Climber
2008-04-03 08:34:41

I really don’t see much humor in an untimely death. My condolences Doug.

I have relatives who went along with the popular delusion too. It’s not fun watching them get burned. My aunt has property in FL (on 10year ARMS). My in laws have an underwater motor home and a house in FL, and are coming out of retirement to finance them. My other inlaws moved to Mexico.

The sooner this ends the better, but I wish it had never happened.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2008-04-03 08:48:25

A friend does some stuff for a family, and the father of the family killed himself on Santa day… was a mortgage broker and business had died off. I heard no real details other than it will mess up the kids.

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-04-03 09:18:33

Doug, my condolences to you and all who knew this person. Every person is an important link in the chain, the gift of life. We never know what that person might have contributed if he or she had lived.

Comment by vile
2008-04-03 09:45:10

Uh. no, not really.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-04-03 13:09:23

Hey, we can turn the cynicism off once in awhile, can’t we??

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Comment by phillygal
2008-04-03 13:50:46

This is terrible. On the one hand I thought Faster Pussycat’s comment was slightly on the bad taste side, but then again, reading all the cynical comments is cracking me up.

Maybe it is black humor. What the hey we’re all going to kick the bucket someday. I don’t mind if you laugh at my expense when I croak out, laughter is the best medicine…wtf

 
 
 
 
Comment by SaladSD
2008-04-03 09:41:54

I’m so sorry, Doug. It made my stomach turn reading about your friend. I know how frantic I feel when I’m waiting for monies owed me in order to pay bills, so I can only imagine the obsessive negative thinking that could compel somebody to take their life when they believe there’s no way out. My sincere condolences to you and his family.

Comment by Joe Schmoe
2008-04-03 13:15:18

Sorry for your loss, Doug.

The suicide probably was related to his failed investment. It made him depressed, and in a moment of sadness he made the mistake of taking his own life.

His family will need the support of friends like you.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-04-03 13:24:53

Like they say, a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

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Comment by spike66
2008-04-03 16:36:12

I add my condolences, Doug.
For what it’s worth, it is the folks who take their finances and their obligations seriously who are driven to this kind of desperation.
I doubt that the grand masters of this mess would ever consider themselves personally responsible…or let moral or ethical questions impede their greed.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Jean S
2008-04-03 17:01:33

oh my. sad news indeed…

suicide is a complicated thing–much more complicated than most people appredicate. It also has terrible aftereffects for friends and family. If you want to read more, there’s a wonderful book by Kay Redfield Jamieson (think that’s the spelling of her last name).

Comment by Jean S
2008-04-03 17:03:20

that would be “appreciate”

jeez.

and I think the book title is “Night Falls Fast”

 
 
Comment by ella
2008-04-03 19:54:53

Doug, I am very sad to hear of your loss. I hope you are feeling better soon.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-04-03 07:48:35

A Sing Sing of his own making…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Sing

“For Matt Mickelson of Ossining, the American dream of home ownership has taken a distinctly nightmarish turn. He blames the broker who sold him a complicated mortgage that could reset to a higher rate at any moment.”

 
Comment by Roger H
2008-04-03 07:51:21

“A new form of sightseeing is catching on in the Washington suburbs. They are known as foreclosure tours or home buyer tours. One that originated yesterday at a Northern Virginia Long and Foster office was labeled ‘The Centreville Gateway Foreclosure Tour of Homes.’”

They need to make a TV show out of this concept. It should replace the “Hot on Homes” broadcast seen in many local markets.

Comment by pressboardbox
2008-04-03 08:16:30

We really need a documentary of the HB collapse a’la Startup Dot Com. I have mentioned this before. Has anyone here heard of anything like this?

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2008-04-03 08:51:27

I emailed the guy who made the documentary “American Jobs” suggesting he might take it on. He said he was aware of the housing bubble… no idea if he pursued it.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-04-03 09:05:22

RE: We really need a documentary of the HB collapse a’la Startup Dot Com.

Yeah-where is fat azz Michael Moore when you really need him.

 
Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-04-03 09:35:04

It’s too big to flail.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-04-03 08:57:41

These bus tours are humorous because they show how the real estate agents plainly believe that the same type of specuvestors that helped create this mess can somehow, strangely, clean it up.

So far all the recovery schemes, whether from Bernanke, congress, or Rosie the realtor - all have one thing in common - they look to the past. They run the gamut from retreads of an idealized image of the New Deal to hokey trolley buses prowling deserted subdivisions. Not one of them looks to the future - all they have is what has already been tried - and failed.

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2008-04-03 13:11:23

“They need to make a TV show out of this concept. It should replace the “Hot on Homes” broadcast seen in many local markets.”

Why not “Buy this Flip”, the sequel to “Flip this House”, a show that should have never been given a spot as a TV series.
It really showed how disconnected house prices were from reality. Just a little paint, some new counter tops, a few new appliances….a little “landscape” and presto>>>>>>>>>>>$100,000 taken from the new suckers, with an ARM to make it “affordable”.

 
 
Comment by AUA
2008-04-03 07:52:02

Excuse me in advance, but

“‘As a buyer, you can still get in with zero money out of your pocket,’ said Kellian McIlwrath, a loan officer from Wells Fargo-affiliated Prosperity Mortgage, adding that banks are so eager to sell foreclosed properties that they are offering cash back to provide borrowers with enough for a down payment and closing costs.”

How much pain is enough before people learn? This is truly insane. I just don’t even have words. “The last guy with an LTV of 130% bounced on us; we’ll start you out at 110% and hopefully that’ll get us off on the right foot.”

Comment by In Colorado
2008-04-03 07:57:12

They are desperate to convert the REOs back into performing assets, even if its only temporarily so.

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-04-03 08:00:53

Anything to avoid writing down the value of all the real estate they have foreclosed on. The reason why getting a short sale approved is so difficult is because that would force the banks to more accurately value the real estate on their books.

Comment by DinOR
2008-04-03 08:41:11

Unbelievable.

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Comment by ginster
2008-04-03 11:23:12

Right! It is probably easier, at the time being, to buy a foreclosed home than a short sale. The banks are not in desperation mode yet. Just a matter of time though…

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Comment by Betamax
2008-04-03 09:05:54

Ludicrous. These ‘foreclosure investors’ are going to bail the second they realize they’ve caught a falling axe.

 
Comment by intheknow
2008-04-03 10:41:10

http://www.pasreo.com/reo

The website for those of you interested in Wells portfolio of bank-owned properties. You can note that there are 214 pages of California foreclosures. There are 59 pages of Florida foreclosures. This isn’t a comparison of the strength of the two markets, just shows where most of Wells’ lending is concentrated.

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2008-04-03 10:45:09

I’d like to point out that the last time I picked up a 40oz at my local bottle shop, the clerk asked me if I worked across the street.

My answer? “No, I don’t, but why?”

“Oh, the guys across the street come in all the time for 40s.”

The business across the street? Wells-Fargo.

 
Comment by Xiaoding
2008-04-03 12:42:21

At least they are selling foreclosed propertys at reasonable prices, or at least one hopes so.

 
Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-04-03 13:14:44

This is SOP in banking. It’s called a “loan-to-facilitate” sale of REO. If the loan terms are non-standard the bank has to maintain a small loss reserve, or have additional book capital, until the loan is seasoned or is refinanced to market terms. It’s a prudent banking practice in that it converts a non-performing asset, REO, into a performing one, a loan. The worst that can happen is that the bank has to foreclose again but then it’s no worse off than before. Selling REO with a 100% loan with a sub-market rate is much better than holding on with an unrealistic wishing price. Also, it’s much better than selling at a big loss in that the loan can reset in a few years to normal terms. Once a bank sells an asset for a loss that loss can’t be recovered.

 
Comment by robmypro
2008-04-03 14:23:26

This is my loan! LOL

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2008-04-03 08:07:12

Investor Downgrade: Windy Ridge homes downgraded to Lonely Ridge. New price target: scrap value.

 
Comment by spike66
2008-04-03 08:10:51

Like the tulips just coming up, as I walk the dogs, I see signs for apt. rentals in older, beautiful buildings on the West Side. Not a lot, just a few here and there, amid all the new condos, and the just-started condo conversions and the would -be mega condos where the foundations are still being poured.
This in a neighborhood where rentals at top dollar were hard to find and brokers controlled it all. Now, seeing street signs that “apts. available” is really a harbinger of change.

 
Comment by jinwnc
2008-04-03 08:11:39

On the ground in Western North Carolina, extreme west end on the Tennessee border, recorded sales in March ‘06 totaled 366.
Fast forward to March ‘07, recorded transactions totaled 77.
33 on improved lots. 44 were just land sales.

SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

But it’s a great time to buy.
We have a 3 year supply of buildable lots already on the market.

We also have over 200 realtors.

 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-04-03 08:25:08

are we now doing anything different than JAPAN did in the early 90’s ?

turning Japanese

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-04-03 09:02:44

There is one profound difference - I think Americans are much more willing to send jingle mail. In that sense, the pain might work through the system much faster.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-04-03 11:03:07

On the other hand, the Japanese are a nation of savers.

We, clearly, are not.

 
Comment by Gulfstream-sitter
2008-04-03 12:44:10

That would be perfect!

I can see the history being written ten years from now……..

“The United States economy was able to recover, mainly due to homeowners opting to walk away from their properties. This defeated the plans of the Federal Reserve and major US banks to defer writing down their losses, much as the Japanese government had unintentionally delayed a recovery from their real estate “bubble of the late 1980s”

The Land of Unintended Consequences.

Comment by ghostwriter
2008-04-03 13:06:10

The Land of Unintended Consequences.

Good title for a book.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-04-03 09:03:25

The PTB’s bag-o-tricks is empty, all except for that little toy top they keep spinning and that worn out football they can’t stop humpin’.

 
 
Comment by Anthony
2008-04-03 08:29:43

‘They don’t hesitate to bid lower and sellers now will have to decide whether or not they want to lower their prices.’

Sorry. Sellers don’t decide anything. Buyers do. He who has more liquidity wins.

Comment by ghostwriter
2008-04-03 13:07:53

‘They don’t hesitate to bid lower and sellers now will have to decide whether or not they want to lower their prices.’

No, sellers have to decide if they want to sell or not.

 
 
Comment by zeropointzero
2008-04-03 08:48:09

While those forclosure tours are out in the far Washington exurbs, they should not forget to remind potential purchasers that Loudon county increased their property tax rate by 19% for the next fical year (starting July 1), and Prince William has increased their rate by a jaw-dropping 27%. All of these will be offset somewhat by the drop in assessed values - but, the march of increasing tax coffers continues unabated, nonetheless.

I know that police, schools, public safety, roads and infrastructure aren’t free - but, I wish our local leaders would try to attack the spending side as agressively as the taxing side of the revenue equation.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-04-03 09:06:26

join us http://www.fcta.org

we have a dept of wymin’s affairs in fx co

Comment by Tulpenwoerde
2008-04-03 10:50:26

Flat, you forgot to mention the duck pond.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-04-03 11:53:08

not done yet dredgers still at it
5k$ ? a day

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Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-04-03 13:11:23

LOL!!

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Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-04-03 13:19:03

As a former Fairfax County resident I wouldn’t be surprised if the county has an office for ESL, autistic children with musical talent and diabetes and another one for ESL, autistic children with musical talent but not diabetes. The county also probably has a “Department of Silly Walks.”

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-04-03 08:58:27

“Rick Herman of RHBA, downplayed the numbers, pointing out that Rochester is in much better shape than some cities where there’s a glut in new homes.”

Spoken like a true upstate NY clueless dope. “It’s different” sez Rick Herman.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-04-03 08:59:17

So much for Paulson’s pontifications that the mortgage industry had nothing to do with the current debacle.

There are still legions of these types out there.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/04/03/mortgage_broker_charged_with_fraud_in_subprime_mortgages

 
Comment by exeter
2008-04-03 09:15:55

Much like Abu Graib and the Mi Lai massacre, the grunts on the ground are paying the price and the scum at the top walk away, scot free.

Comment by crisrose
2008-04-03 09:29:36

The scum at the top wouldn’t be where they are without the scum grunts on the ground doing their dirty work for them. You think the scum top is going to get their hands dirty? No! That’s what the scum grunts are for. Both deserve to hang - the grunts more so for being not only scum but stupid scum.

Comment by exeter
2008-04-03 09:40:45

Let me understand this. The grunts are more guilty for being stupid but the scum at the top less guilty for providing such great and moral leadership…..

Nice logic.

 
 
Comment by BP
2008-04-03 12:39:29

Uh…the General in charge of Abu Graib was fired.

Comment by exeter
2008-04-03 14:08:54

Uh…. but the “leader” at the pentagon denied all responsibility…..Uh

 
 
 
Comment by crisrose
2008-04-03 09:20:56

“He blames the broker who sold him a complicated mortgage that could reset to a higher rate at any moment. ‘I’m on the edge of foreclosure all the time because I don’t know when the next shoe is gonna drop,’ Mickelson said. ‘When they say hey you’re paying $2,500 now but next month it’s $5,000, just because that’s the way the ball bounces. Every day is like living with a gun to your head.’”

A gun you loaded when you stupidly signed for a mortgage you could not and never had any hope of affording.

Comment by Backstage
2008-04-03 10:21:31

But Mr. Mikelson can just turn and walk away from this gun. His credit score might take a round, but it’ll recover & he’ll be all the better for it.

As has been noted before, the psychology is changing. Soon Mr. Mikelson will walk…..And if he takes the hit on the mortgage, why not just stop paying on everything?

Comment by Backstage
2008-04-03 10:30:15

It has always struck me as a real downside to credit scoring it that once the score gets to a low enough level the borrower will default on all his debt.

A credit score is NOT an aggregate of your credit history. It can be dragged down by any number of one-time events, like identity theft, erroneous data, a couple of lates. A big one time default is so devastating to the score, why not take advantage of it and lighten your debt load for free.

The credit score is like a gun with one bullet. Once it’s fired, it takes a long time to reload.

 
 
Comment by Molly
2008-04-03 12:35:56

“‘I’m on the edge of foreclosure all the time… Every day is like living with a gun to your head.’”

YOU put the gun to your own head, Genius. So, just drop it and run. Isn’t that better than waiting for the mortgage company to come up and pull the trigger for you?

Too many reports of and references to suicide today. And this is still fairly early in the game. Sad.

 
 
Comment by tiger
2008-04-03 09:36:52

I saw a Realtor acquaintance last weekend in CA that I hadn’t talked to in a year. Their news of the market was that in most areas homes sell pretty fast. People are starting to realize that we have hit bottom. People do have 20% to put down.
They bought at peak with the idea that prices would go up. They have a rental houses that they can’t sell. They are hoping to sue the lenders for predatory lending and get their loan cut in half for their primary residence. I’m not sure how that will work out as they are a Realtor and have a rental homes they purchased prior to their primary home. I suggested they could rent, but it was like they didn’t hear me. I really wanted to yell at them.

Comment by exeter
2008-04-03 09:42:10

BS

 
Comment by Rintoul
2008-04-03 10:30:15

..and some people actually want me to feel sorry for these types..? Insane.

 
Comment by Backstage
2008-04-03 10:38:18

I stopped talking about the bubble long ago, except in general terms. When I did offer some thoughts or advice, the response was always scorn, deer-in-the-headlights, derision, or delusion.

People can’t be saved if they don’t realize they are in trouble.

Comment by tiger
2008-04-03 11:32:31

I figured that. So I just played dumb a little and asked their opinion for the most part. I just wanted to know what was going on in their head, which ended up worse than I thought. I don’t see how they can be saying that on one hand the market is great to buy and they are in so much trouble with their own house and they should be bailed out because they got scammed by lenders which they know is a lie and renting is beneath them. It just goes to show how some people want it all their way. I’m avoiding them for the most part because I don’t want to be asked for money.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-04-03 13:23:44

I got the same thing from a used-house saleswoman yesterday in SE Utah. She basically said the old mantra of “It’s different here” - I had to hang up so I could let off steam - it felt good to yell at the top of my lungs, “Hey everybody, it’s different here!!!!!” I was out in the cliffs, and when the echo come back around it just said, kind of softly, “Naaaht.”

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Comment by RJT
2008-04-03 10:09:13

Sorry for posing this here, but the bubbliest of Canadian markets is cracking and the mainstream press is beginning to take notice (although they are confused)

http://tinyurl.com/2xckxt

 
Comment by dc_renter
2008-04-03 10:13:28

“One stop on the tour was a massive townhouse in Centreville that sold for $519,000 in February 2007 and is now listed at $399,000. Then there was a hearty brick rambler on a quiet Manassas Park street with a huge yard, hardwood floors and a finished basement. Asking price: $284,000.”

Still overpriced. The only reason people are making the “high salaries” here in DC is because its become the norm for both parents to work. That includes lawyers and their spouses, doctors and their spouses - the only way you can afford the prices. DC is all about work work work work….. ugh.

Comment by Skip
2008-04-03 10:58:54

The only reason people are making the “high salaries” here in DC is because its become the norm for both parents to work.

I think that is pretty much the norm in the entire country now.

Comment by dc_renter
2008-04-03 11:35:26

I was waiting for that comment. Yes and no. I don’t think its the norm for spouses of typically high paying professions such as lawyers and doctors (overrated as they are) to have to work to afford a house payment. In DC, it is the norm now.

Comment by AdamCO
2008-04-03 13:13:36

relying on two incomes effectively doubles exposure to bankruptcy and other risks.

two incomes are good, but a family should only rely on one.

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Comment by tuxedo_junction
2008-04-03 13:25:45

There are lots of government lawyers in DC as well as public interest group lawyers, poverty/public service lawyers, and lawyers who have to sell insurance and do tax returns in order to make a decent living. Also, trade association lawyers, other than the General Counsel, don’t make much.

An experienced Federal government staff attorney, the best paid of the group that I noted, makes about $125k. You don’t live large on $125K in metro DC.

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Comment by ChrisO
2008-04-03 11:45:32

It’s a freakin’ townhouse. In Centreville.

Wake me up when it gets to $200k.

Comment by shelby
2008-04-04 03:18:37

Centreville is turning into gangland too - the MS 13 are crawling the creek (Bull Run)
5 more years & most of Centreville will be like Manassas Park - no where you want to live !!

 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-04-03 11:49:59

gov workers work ?
wow
mostly they calculate days till retirement and retirement pay

Comment by ella
2008-04-03 20:02:33

I only have two relatives/acquaintances who work for the government. However, they are both very conscientious people and I believe they put in a honest day’s work (based on they way they speak about their job, and their behaviour in other circumstances, which is not lazy).

I know you have quite a bee in your bonnet about government workers, but your generalizations are very…general. They’re not all Cliff Clavin, you know.

 
 
 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-04-03 10:14:34

Question: at the height of the madness, there were “investment” groups formed to just go and buy up new sfh/condos and turn ‘em around, right? I ask because I just found out someone I know owns & is trying to sell a new house, and had formed a “value-added” RE investment co. in 2007 (LOL). I wonder what else it owns.

Sounds like he got in on the ground floor just as the roof caved in. We’re always well behind the curve in MT.

 
Comment by polly
2008-04-03 10:34:10

Another classic Washington Post chat - Housing outlook 2008:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/04/01/DI2008040101943.html

Just a sample of the goodness:

Arlington Va.: Hi, I’ve got my FSBO on the market for $625K and received an offer for $550! Should I be totally insulted? The house is in excellent condition, in a great location and the comps will support my price. By the way, the offer was not presented by the buyers agent in person. Instead, it came by email. Maybe the agent was embarrassed? I don’t think I’m even going to counter. I will just reject it and go on…

Jim Remley: As I tell all of my sellers, all offers are good! Don’t be insulted. What you have is a bargain shopper, who is trying to find a “good deal”. The good news is you have activity!

Comment by Backstage
2008-04-03 10:43:28

And as soon as the ‘bargain shopper’ gets rejected, there will be no activity. In 8 months Arlington VA will wish she/he’d taken the $550k.

 
Comment by eastcoaster
2008-04-03 11:03:01

If I had a realtors license, I’d advertise as the one who will make any and all offers on a buyer’s behalf. No lowball too embarrassing for me to submit!

Comment by Backstage
2008-04-03 11:20:54

In person with a smile on my face!

 
Comment by ghostwriter
2008-04-03 13:21:34

I don’t know about other states, but it’s against the law in Ohio to not submit any and all offers, regardless of price. It’s a realtors fiduciary duty to the buyer. If an agent refuses to submit your offer, you need to find another agent.

 
 
Comment by aimeejd
2008-04-03 11:31:05

I will never understand this mentality–why in the hell should this guy be “insulted”? If you don’t want to accept it or counter, then don’t. This isn’t a judgment of you or your first child–it’s an offer on a house, a business transaction–period, the end, finis. The seller priced it for what he thought it was worth, and the buyer offered what he thought it was worth: that is all. Should the buyer be “insulted” by the asking price?

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-04-03 11:39:03

It points to one of the reasons why this market is going to take a long time to clear, the emotional nature of real estate. There is no logical reason to be insulted by an offer, you can just reject it and move on. When someone’s home is involved reason and rational thought seem to go out the window.

Comment by ella
2008-04-03 19:53:36

“It points to one of the reasons why this market is going to take a long time to clear, the emotional nature of real estate.”

Exactly.

We need an emotional rescue.

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Comment by bluto
2008-04-03 11:57:15

Because an offer that low in a normal negotiation either means you’re an idiot (and can’t figure out the value of something) or the other side believes you’re hand is weak and you’ll quickly cave in negotiations. Especially the latter is a fairly insulting statement to make. In a market with little liquidity, neither is as applicable.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-04-03 12:32:44

This has to be the only market in history where sellers are insulted by being offered double the price they paid for their home at the beginning of the decade, instead of triple or more…

 
Comment by ghostwriter
2008-04-03 13:22:54

Should the buyer be “insulted” by the asking price?

Probably.

 
Comment by zeropointzero
2008-04-03 13:31:45

I’d have asked the questioner how he/she came up with the $625k price, how the house compares to the rest of the neighborhood/area, and what the recent comps show.

Alternately, I’d feel like responding: “Yes - go ahead be ‘totally insulted’ if that makes you feel better about your selling price. That should make you feel better for anywhere between 1 and 24 hours or so. But, otherwise, I’d spend the time looking at the comps in your area and making sure my house was appropriately priced - and then I’d knock off another 5% - and I’d do everything I could to make the house show well. Even this might not be enough in this market, but it sure can’t hurt.”

 
 
 
Comment by Sid R Real
2008-04-03 10:58:39

‘People bought more than they should have when the market was at its peak,’ said Mary Richeimer, owner of an Urbana agency that represents only buyers.

Was Ms Richeimer one of the realtors telling people to ‘buy all the house you can afford now, because it’s going up, up, up and you won’t be able to afford the same home in a year?

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-04-03 11:05:32

WTF??? I thought Charlotte was DIFFERENT! What do you mean 50% abandoned houses?

Oh dear. What does this mean for Seattle and Portland (January’s only gainers besides Charlotte)? Might north of Burnside become un-nice again?

 
Comment by 2banana
2008-04-03 11:53:44

“‘As a buyer, you can still get in with zero money out of your pocket,’ said Kellian McIlwrath, a loan officer from Wells Fargo-affiliated Prosperity Mortgage, adding that banks are so eager to sell foreclosed properties that they are offering cash back to provide borrowers with enough for a down payment and closing costs.”

We are still in the 2nd inning…

 
Comment by Dave Allen
2008-04-04 17:21:39

Is wells fargo completely insane. Their so eager to sell forclosed homes that their offering homes with no money down and cash back at close. I’m pulling all my money out of w/f today.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-04-05 20:33:45

test

:-) ;-) :-*

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-04-06 01:29:52

:-P

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-04-06 01:31:10

;P

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-04-06 01:39:29

;-)

 
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