This Is Beginning To Look Like The New Normal
The Independent Record reports from Montana. “Speaking at a seminar on foreclosures and their impact on Montana families, Sue Woodrow, community affairs manager for the Helena Branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, said there are some hotspots of foreclosure activity in Montana, but that the situation here is nowhere near as grim as in parts of the Southwest, Midwest and Florida. Woodrow cautioned that one in five loans made in Montana in 2006 was a high-cost loan, a category that includes adjustable rate mortgages.”
“‘So the thing we’ll be watching out for is what happens when those start to reset,’ she said.”
“Sheila Rice of the Montana Homeownership Network in Great Falls said there are only six bank-owned homes that have been foreclosed in the Helena area, compared to 60 in Great Falls. She cautioned, though, that her organization typically counts around 800 foreclosures a year in Montana, but anticipates 1,200 before 2008 is done.”
“She said that in addition to creative financing, many borrowers ramped up credit card use and home equity lines, which put further stress on family budgets.”
“‘There was a feeding frenzy there for a long time, where people felt like if I didn’t do this now, I will never be a homeowner,’ she said. ‘And in fairness to the buyers, in 40 to 50 percent of the subprime loans, they could have gotten a prime loan and were up-sold.’”
The Idaho Statesman. “First-quarter 2008 Treasure Valley single-family residential home sales plunged 37 percent from a year ago, according to industry statistics. Experts said many homes that were sold in the last quarter of 2007 closed in the first quarter of 2008, but not enough to rescue the quarter.”
“‘That tells you how dismal the first quarter of 2008 really was,’ said real estate agent Mike Pennington.”
“‘I’d say that in the 14 years I’ve been selling real estate in the Treasure Valley, I don’t think I’ve seen numbers as pitiful as they seem to be be,’ said associate broker Shaun Tracy. ‘Things have slowed to such a crawl that a lot of Realtors, lenders and builders are not going to make it in this environment.’”
“He knows of a couple who are both Realtors and who have just one sale between them this year. ‘And this is beginning to look like the new normal for now,’ Tracy said.”
“Median home prices have taken it on the chin, too. In Ada County, the median price for a single-family home in March was $210,000, down 7 percent from $224,900 in March 2007. Canyon County’s median price of $149,900 last month was down 7 percent from $163,300 in March 2007.”
“However, median prices in both counties were still well above 2004 levels.”
“Meanwhile, the bulging inventory of unsold homes remains a problem. According to Intermountain MLS statistics, there were 7,195 homes listed for sale in Ada and Canyon counties at the end of the first quarter, about 12 percent more than the 6,448 listings at the end of 2007. The MLS reported that 1,651 homes changed hands in Ada and Canyon counties from January through March.”
“The number of Treasure Valley homes scheduled to be sold at a foreclosure auction this month has reached a ’staggering’ level, according to a local report released Tuesday.”
“IdahoDataProviders said 200 trustee sales are scheduled this month in Ada County, a 203 percent increase from 66 trustee sales the same month a year ago. In Canyon County, 162 homes will go on the block, a 74 percent increase from 93 trustee sales in April 2007.”
“IDP president Charlie Nate said lenders are starting foreclosure proceedings quickly, hoping that potential buyers or investors may surface soon after a notice of default is published. Nate called the level of increase ’staggering, but it’s not over yet.’”
“‘I think they (lenders) are not wasting a minute, because if nobody buys that house, it goes back to the lender,’ Nate said.”
“Nate said real estate agents and lenders are showing the strain of the ongoing housing slump. ‘You should see the ones I talk to,’ he said. ‘It’s like they’re dead. You can hear it in their tone of voice.’”
“Associate broker Shaun Tracy…said that as homes in foreclosure are sold off in a neighborhood, nearby homeowners will take notice of the lower prices the houses fetch and will be more likely to be reasonable in pricing their own homes.”
“‘What will happen is that there will be a repricing of the market,’ he said.”
“Ada County’s vacancy rate for rental housing in the first quarter was double the rate for the same period last year, according to a new survey.” “It’s a curiosity, because there should be more potential renters, considering that sales of single-family homes remain in the doldrums because of a glut of homes and the difficulty customers are having obtaining credit.”
“Tony Drost of First Rate Property Management said his company’s vacancy rate is just 2 percent. ‘I should be happy with a 2 percent vacancy rate,’ Drost said. ‘But there are certain properties that are not getting rented out, and that makes the owner unhappy, which makes me unhappy.’”
“Drost thinks some properties he manages are remaining vacant because potential renters are turning to property managers who do not screen renters as closely as they should.”
“‘I had 10 applicants rejected just this week because of bad credit,’ he said. ‘It looks like over the winter everybody decided to stop paying their bills.’”
“The biggest jump in vacancies was for five-bedroom homes, which climbed from 5.7 percent a year ago to 14.3 percent in the first quarter.”
“Mike Rampelberg of Greater Boise Property Management said the vacancy increases are attributable to a flood of available properties, as homeowners who have not been able to sell their houses have decided to turn them into rentals. Homes that were rented before they were even vacant a year ago are languishing on the market this year, he said.”
“Nevertheless, Rampelberg said he’s seeing a ‘good supply” of out-of-state renters looking for single-family homes, compared with two years ago when they would have been looking to get in on the residential buying frenzy then still sweeping the Treasure Valley.”
From KTVB.com in Idaho. “As it makes it’s way down the street, it seems like a typical charter bus But once inside you realize Davy Thomson isn’t showing the sites instead he’s showing reposessed and foreclosed homes.”
“This home was reposessed and is on the market for half a million dollars. It’s unfinished and would take money to complete, but those on the tour know that just a few years ago, the bare land the home is on would have cost that much.”
“‘The house we just showed you cost half a million dollars, this house, 90 thousand dollars they range in price for every type of buyer,’ said Thomson. ‘There are anywhere between 700 and a thousand foreclosed houses on the market right now.’”
From KOMO TV in Washington. “The national economic crisis is hitting the county. Budget Director Bob Cowan is warning the County Council of a $20 million shortfall in the 2008 budget and a $60 million shortfall in 2009.”
“‘The current plan will cut the prosecutor’s office, it will cut the sheriff’s office, it’ll cut the jail, it’ll cut the public defender,’ said sheriff’s spokesman John Urquhart. ‘So I think the public can expect there will be an awful lot of criminals that won’t get arrested, won’t go to jail and won’t get prosecuted.’”
“‘There was a sense in the county courthouse that I was only trying to scare people,’ said County Executive Ron Sims. ‘I said ‘I’m not trying to scare you; I am trying to tell you there is no money.’”
“So what’s wrong? King County budget money kept climbing as long as homes were being built and sold. The slowdown is hitting home, hard.”
“The county is also being hit with a low rate of return on investments, and had what the budget office calls ‘write-downs resulting from impaired investments.’ Another part of the problem is that people are holding on to their wallets. They aren’t buying anything, from cars to refrigerators.”
The Democrat Herald from Oregon. “Tim Groome can’t think about the houses on Grace Street without a sigh. His company, Premiere Estate Homes of Jefferson, has built 14 houses there under the name. All but one feature a prominent ‘For Sale’ sign. And have since last July.”
“‘If this were two years ago, they’d have been gone a week from being completed,’ said Groome, president of the company.”
“Communities such as Lebanon are seeing a trickledown effect, said Jacki Nicklous, president of the Santiam Board of Realtors. Sellers in Bend, Arizona and California aren’t seeing buyers come to call, so they’re not able to purchase the mid-valley properties they may have been eyeing.”
“The word ‘recession’ has also been a factor, she said. Even when layoff talk is just rumors at the watercooler, ‘it’s still enough to scare people into waiting.’”
“Groome figures even a full-blown statewide recession won’t slow Oregon down for long. ‘It never has,’ he said.”
The Bend Bulletin from Oregon. “Median home sales prices in the first three months of 2008 fell almost 12 percent in Bend and 14 percent in Redmond from the first quarter of 2007, according to a report from the Central Oregon Association of Realtors.”
“Elsewhere in the region, home prices dropped 15.5 percent in Sisters, 27.5 percent in La Pine and 9.1 percent in Jefferson County, but prices rose 16.5 percent in Sunriver and 8.1 percent in Crook County, the report said.”
“The number of homes sold in Bend in the quarter dropped 44 percent, to 222 units, and 30.3 percent in Redmond, to 92 homes.”
“Local real estate officials weren’t surprised by the declines in sales and prices. ‘That’s the market,’ said Tom Greene, president of the Realtors association. ‘Sellers aren’t going to get what they got in 2006.’”
“At the end of March, Bend and Redmond had 12 and 13 months’ worth of homes on the market, respectively, Greene said. ‘We’re coming to the realization that the recession is one of the reasons we’re down,’ Greene said.”
“‘Lending practices have changed dramatically,’ said David Block, an appraiser for Bend-based Cornerstone Appraisal Group. ‘People can’t get out of their properties because values have dropped and they can’t get a loan.’”
“The region’s two highest-priced markets — Sunriver and Sisters — both maintained year-over-year gains in median sales prices, according to the MLS data. Sunriver’s price gain was based on 11 sales, however, a 65 percent drop from the same period in 2007.”
“‘January and February were not good for anybody out here,” said Mike Riley, general manager and principle broker for Coldwell Banker First Resort Realty in Sunriver.”
“Heavy snowfall this winter contributed to the sales drop — so did people’s reluctance to drop their asking prices, Riley said. ‘Sunriver is a second-home market — it isn’t affected in the same way,’ Riley said. ‘A lot of owners haven’t budged in their prices or panicked.’”
The Lake Oswego Review from Oregon. “Recent real estate reports show that Lake Oswego and West Linn are not immune to market pressures. The number of active listings in February 2008 was 893 compared to 641 in February 2007. In February 2006, the number was 354.”
“Local Realtors and mortgage experts agree that the inventory of homes is high. ‘The buyers are being very careful because of all of the negative news coming from Wall Street,’ said Realtor John DeCosta. ‘The (lending) environment now is very rigid and down payments are more in the 25 to 30 percent range.’”
“He said the number of closed sales this quarter is almost half of that from the first quarter of 2007. ‘Builders are being squeezed to sell their inventory before the construction loans expire,’ said DeCosta. ‘Builders are leading the sellers in dropping prices and putting deals together.’”
“The average sales price for a Lake Oswego/West Linn home in February 2008 was $568,000, as opposed to $497,000 a year ago. In 2000, it was $325,000.”
“Broker Dale Kuhn said she has seen an increase in inventory for higher-end homes. ‘I think we’re seeing people come down in price and being a little more realistic in pricing,’ Kuhn said. ‘People realize we no longer are having 15 to 16 percent appreciation rates.’”
“She said the national media has portrayed a gloom-and-doom housing crisis in the United States. In addition, she said the Lake Oswego and the Portland area did not partake to the degree that cities like Miami in the speculative boom.”
“‘I don’t think Portland and Oregon struggle. Florida and California have gorgeous weather,’ she said. ‘People don’t move here for the speculative market.’”
The Oregonian. “Until recently, a vibrant housing market provided many of the jobs and much of the income that stoked the southwest suburbs’ economy for the past half-decade. Much has happened in the past year to erase the double-digit profits that home sellers were taking for granted.”
“The number of houses on the market, for instance, has increased almost sixfold since 2006, giving buyers the upper hand. The multiple offers and bidding wars common among prospective buyers as recently as 2005 have been replaced by sellers trimming asking prices 10 percent and more to keep buyers from shopping elsewhere.”
“Ron Ares jumped from his job as marketing director for a high-tech company to a family-run real estate business in West Linn three years ago. That may as well have been a lifetime ago. The market hit its peak, in terms of median sales prices and number of houses sold, last July or August, Ares said.”
“‘Inventories were half of what they are now, full-price offers were commonplace and if buyers didn’t have all their ducks in a row, they were likely to miss out on houses that were selling the same day they came on the market,’ said Ares, a Tigard resident who specializes in the southwest suburbs. ‘It was one open house, one advertisement and ‘Katie bar the door.’”
“‘What I’m telling clients is, if you need to sell and don’t want to get stuck, look at what the peak pricing was and take 5 percent off the asking price,’ Ares said. ‘Otherwise, they’ll just be chasing the market down.’”
“Dale Kirby wasn’t surprised at the reaction she got when she told friends and family in December that she was putting her Tigard-area house on the market no later than March. ‘They all said, ‘Ooohhhhh, what a horrible time to try to sell your house,’ ‘ Kirby said, laughing.”
“Her three-bedroom, 2.5-bathroom house, built in 2001 overlooking Fanno Creek, was listed March 14 with an asking price of $417,500. Kirby said she’d have asked $35,000 more if she had listed the house at the same time last year. She attributed the reduction to the softened market.”
“‘I bought it three years ago, pretty much at the height,’ she said. ‘I offered almost full price and it had been on the market for only two days.’”
“Despite a regionwide housing inventory that’s swelled to nearly a year’s worth of dwellings, Kirby is confident the right buyer will walk through her door. ‘The house is all detailed out right now and looks great,’ she said. ‘Besides, everything always works that way for me.’”
The Democrat Herald link has a pic as good as any in the gallery!
How would you like to be the one person that bought on that street?
That pic is awesome, and from the article:
Groome is planning a chili feed and open house celebration from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. April 20 at Grace Ann Estates, which he hopes will help jump-start sales.
Chili feeds do have a way of jump-starting things.
Yeah, quadruple-flushers.
Then you take the plunger and jumpstart everything again.
That was funny Ben. Thanks for pointing that one out.
It’s AWESOME to see that kind of shot in the MSM!!
Good to see in the ‘comments’ section that beautiful - and incredibly appropriate - song by Woodie Guthrie…
I had 10 applicants rejected just this week because of bad credit,’ he said. ‘It looks like over the winter everybody decided to stop paying their bills.
How dare people decide it is better to feed and clothe their children with whatever few precious dollars before paying these ripoff loans to the Wall St fraudsters. What will they do without their $3 billion dollar bonus for pillaging the financial integrity of the country.
chuckle…
Amazing what happens when real estate isn’t prioritized far beyound sanity. My FIL tried to convince my wife and I this weekend that we should ‘just buy’ a lovely $1.1M home that just came on the market.
I stared at him for a long time and ask “How much do you think I make? Your lawyer daughter makes more than (my wife’s name here) and I combined and she couldn’t afford that home”
The mania isn’t dead yet.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Hey Neil…..you can buy that house and have the govt bail you out. After all it’s only money.
Ugh. Never mix in-laws and real estate. One exception: when, as a gift for being such a great spouse to their beloved child, they hand you the deed to a free and clear house.
Tell him to buy it for you in cash since it’s such a small sum.
Of course, not everyone has such a rough edge with their relatives as I do but I have found that shutting down the show permanently has innumerous POSITIVE bonus features that are not obvious.
lol
The wife shut him down.
Thankfully I’ve already told him he cannot be involved in the house purchase (he’s a horrid negotiator).
Got Popcorn?
Neil
My grandma passed down that parents should not make monetary suggestions to grown children unless they are offering to pay for it no strings attached.
LOL @ “Despite a regionwide housing inventory that’s swelled to nearly a year’s worth of dwellings, Kirby is confident the right buyer will walk through her door. ‘The house is all detailed out right now and looks great,’ she said. ‘Besides, everything always works that way for me.’”
Oh, dear . . .
This was my wife’s logic with her sister.
She bought a house for $140K, cash-out refi, bankruptcy, then 2 more cash-out refi’s. Owing $240K on a sub-prime, I/O, ARM with pre-pay penalty, she put the house on the market for $305K. Many around her were listed but not selling for $260K.
Oh…. things just work out for her…. Yeah, she bought a new house for $200K with an FHA loan just before letting the old house go into foreclsoure.
I don’t get how this is working - when you apply for the loan for house 2, don’t they run a credit check and see that you already have a mortgage for house 1? Why would they give you a loan for house 2 if you already are paying for house 1? I can’t imagine people are going to be able to continue to do this. What a great scam it was - buy low, refi a bunch of money out, buy something cheaper and walk away with the cash.
You just have to present documents showing the old house is leased out for enough to cover the payments. In my SIL’s case, they were pure BS docs drawn up by her Used House Sales Person, who also fronted her the money for the 3% down, from the 6% sales comission the Raelt-ho got from the builder.
But wouldn’t the first home have a “primary residence” loan?
In 2001 I had $2.5x gross income house for sale and was preshopping in the new location. I applied for prequalification with Wells Fargo in the new location. They approved me for anything up to $4.5 x gross income, knowing that I was still making payments on the other house. I asked twice if they had this in mind. Yes, I was “qualified” to make payments above my take home pay, and with four kids to feed.
There, but by the grace of God, might I have gone!
I bank with Wells Fargo. My banker gave me a brochure describing how they “had mostly averted” the subprime crisis and that “
JimmyWarren Buffet was still buying their stock”. I know for a fact they were qualifying peole for at least 4x income.How they avoided being in the same boat as Citi and Merrill Lynch is beyond me.
I believe this is Ms. Kirby. She is the director of marketing for a “promotional products” company in Oregon. If you scroll down, you can see her striking a bold pose as she surveys the Galapagos Islands as Darwin no doubt once did.
http://blog.promopeddler.com/
Oh, brother. The “pens and other trinkets with your name on them” people. If you’ve been around the business world for more than five minutes, you’re going to run into one of these types.
They’ll swear up and down that having your name on this, that, and everything will do wonders for your business. I, on the other hand, am a bit skeptical.
After all, when your toilet’s overflowing, are you going to say, “Mabel, quick, where’s the wall calendar with that plumber’s name on it?”
Yeah, but I think Mr. Darwin would have left the pink cap at home.
That caught me too!
‘Besides, everything always works that way for me.’
Improper use of the present tense.
Quick question guys–if they pass this tax rebate for buying a foreclosed home, how does that work?
Do you actually save the money dollar for dollar on your taxes? Or is it a percentage that you actually save?
Thanks!
Wilson
They are talking about a fully refundable tax credit, but spread out over several years. Buy the house, then when you do your taxes, get an extra $5K tax refund for the next 3 or 5 years (assuming you stay in the house and keep making payments), depending on the proposal.
On a related note…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14leamer.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Yeah, sure, like $25K makes buying something priced at $500k make sense. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a $25k tak break, but I truly don’t believe in letting the tail wag the dog.
It doesn’t take much price decline to wipe out $25k of tax benefit.
“The national economic crisis is hitting the county. Budget Director Bob Cowan is warning the County Council of a $20 million shortfall in the 2008 budget and a $60 million shortfall in 2009.”
“‘The current plan will cut the prosecutor’s office, it will cut the sheriff’s office, it’ll cut the jail, it’ll cut the public defender,’ said sheriff’s spokesman John Urquhart. ‘So I think the public can expect there will be an awful lot of criminals that won’t get arrested, won’t go to jail and won’t get prosecuted.’”
“‘There was a sense in the county courthouse that I was only trying to scare people,’ said County Executive Ron Sims. ‘I said ‘I’m not trying to scare you; I am trying to tell you there is no money.’”
We’ve built up quite the prison-industrial-complex in our country, the past 25 years and most of it was due to becoming the police state that we now are…
What happens when the cops end up as desperate as the criminals?
I hope you notice that they threaten to cut the vital services like police, prosecution, and jail, and then really push the scare button. Any bets that Ron and the boys ask for a big, new tax levy to pay for the ‘lost’ services? It wouldn’t work so well if they threatened to tighten up all the departments, delay equipment purchases, freeze hiring, etc. Nope, got to make the big threats. I’m surprised 9/11 wasn’t mentioned.
Usually it’s just a scare tactic, but not this time…
Almost all local governments lived on a ‘mark to model’ economy, booking future profits yesterday.
There’s nothing left in the till…
“There’s nothing left in the till…”
Meaning: They are out of cash.
Which makes those with cash rule over those without cash.
Thus, cash is king.
Hmm..how about actually budgeting for the basics first, like fire, police, roads, transit,education and start cutting in the things we’ve thought up over the last 30 odd years. Namely every social program ever devised. On top of this, how about lopping off 30-50000 a year off of all the county councilmembers salaries and the county execs salary. I’d rather have the basics funded first before we even start talking about funding every one else who has a hand outstretched for charity funds. Will this ever happen? No. Instead they whine about how they can’t fund the sheriff. I call B.S. on it.
Agree. Lots of unhatched chickens were prematurely counted.
It amazes me that there is so much distasteful warmed-over history that is going to have to be re-experienced as a result of myopia by those who should know better.
Yeah…. you never see them say…
We’re going to have to cut the travel budget, delay renovation of the offices, cut art purchases, scale back the mailings telling you what a great job we are doing, reduce the budget for the 4th of July picnic where I get to press the flesh with voters at the voters’ expense to increase my name recognition for the next election….
My beef exactly, PHX. Right now, we have a small problem w/the CA state budget. Every school district is on red alert, Mr. Spock and cutting teachers left and right.
However,…
These knuckleheads Sups never say I’ll start the ball rolling w/a 10-20% pay cut off my 125-250K job.
Pi$$es the heck out of me. Always get rid of the 35-50K gang first, but the higherups never do a damned thing. Just keep looking out for themselves.
Hate to say, but wouldn’t mind a few of these overblown, overhyped, overpaid dolts to lose their jobs, so the real teachers could keep theirs. Would we miss any of these guys.
And don’t give me the CEO crap. These guys have their own agends and aren’t worth much more than 100K at most.
As my father is fond of saying, “Why are they getting paid so much for being stupid?”
Colorado has this law that says the govt. can only increase spending by the amount of population change and inflation, without voter approval. If the economy is going great, and they are collecting extra money, fine… but they can’t spend it without permission. They either hang onto it until the economy turns bad, or mail it back to us as part of a tax return.
Well, when I lived there the city of Colorado Springs got tired of always sending back the extra money and decided to ask the voters to let them spend it. So, they came up with a bunch of ideas, then gathered a citizens comittee to prioritize all the ideas. They ranged from a new fire station for the high growth part of town, widening a road, improving parks…. down to new art for city hall, renovations to some memorials, new art work for a road downtown to make it hip and edgy to increase property values…
You get the idea. Well, after the citizens meetings where they got a TON of feedback on which were good projects and which were bad, the city council decided to just wrap ALL of the issues into one big ballot initiative. They then used tax payer money to beg for us to pass the initiative with commercials talking about how our house will burn down if we voted against it.
Well, this angered the citizenry to no end. The voters rejected the issue, and the next election we had a whole new batch of people running against the encoumbants on the platform that they will bring the spending proposals back to voters as separate issues instead of all or nothing. All but 1 of the former city council member were replaced, and sure enough, all the spending issues were brought back as separate issues. The police and fire issues passed, and the new art for city hall stuff failed.
Ya gotta love TABOR!
My beef exactly, PHX. Right now, we have a small problem w/the CA state budget. Every school district is on red alert, Mr. Spock and cutting teachers left and right.
However,…
These knuckleheads Sups never say I’ll start the ball rolling w/a 10-20% pay cut off my 125-250K job.
Pi$$es the heck out of me. Always get rid of the 35-50K gang first, but the higherups never do a damned thing. Just keep looking out for themselves.
Hate to say, but wouldn’t mind a few of these overblown, overhyped, overpaid dolts to lose their jobs, so the real teachers could keep theirs. Would we miss any of these guys.
And don’t give me the CEO crap. These guys have their own agends and aren’t worth much more than 100K at most.
************************Just like where I work… Flockups galore and yet April 15 they will all get bonuses.
Instead of “changing the oil” in the beginning when it was cheap to fix running vehicle/business/ city taxes, why not wait till it will cost a bloody fortune and possibly/probably LOSE jobs.
Love AZSlim whose father who states
“why do they get paid so much for being stupid”
My question exactly and all the time.
This is a county that bought in $ 1 billion in taxes last year, $ 4 billion in total revenue. They’re just trying to get the legislature to give them some new revenue sources.
I was really hoping The Wire would do a season specifically about the fallout from the housing bubble (because they had mentioned gentrification in an earlier season). They didn’t, but they did sort of touch on it with the police department losing its funding when the newly elected mayor of Baltimore realizes there is only enough to fund schools OR police (and he had run on education). It was great, because it wasn’t the old cliche of the crooked politician, there just wasn’t enough money to keep the whole system funded. To keep things going, various government departments keep rebalancing the books between Peter and Paul. The underlying mentality is a parallel to the bubble, actually.
The erosion of the middle class isn’t just about a lowered standard of living for individuals, as couples have to struggle more for a basic lifestyle they could have afforded on one income in the 1950s. It is also about a lowered standard of living for middle class neighbourhoods (more crime, bad roads and related infrastructure, an overcrowded education system etc.). People can complain about taxes, but when their home is on fire, or a criminal is breaking in through back door, I believe they will miss the funding then.
The worst part of this bubble mess is they way that it turns people against one another. Everyone’s elbowing each other out of the way on the race to be on top in the ownership society.
Patriotism and community spirit are *so* 20th century.
The erosion of the middle class isn’t just about a lowered standard of living for individuals, as couples have to struggle more for a basic lifestyle they could have afforded on one income in the 1950s.
Be careful with this assumption. As far as I can tell (I’m only 34), the 50’s life style included these elements: 1 car, much smaller housing than is currently the “norm”, little to no eating out, and far few toys - adult and child, and the absence of some “standard” comforts like air conditioning. I think it’s pretty easy to argue that the external standard of living since the 50’s has gone up with advent of 2 income families. (Whether it actually makes for happier, more peaceful families is up for debate.)
I can tell you from personal experience that it is totally possible to achieve a 50’s type lifestyle today, but you have to have much lowered expectations. We quite literally live in housing built in the 50’s (1 bathroom, 3 bedrooms, no A/C). We have 2 cars but could possibly go down to 1 - we don’t eat out very much (Chinese buffet anyone??)
I guess what I’m saying is that today’s average lifestyle doesn’t have a lot of direct comparison or meaning to the 50’s. Looking at 2 income vs. 1 income lifestyles are oranges to apples comparisons.
It is also about a lowered standard of living for middle class neighbourhoods (more crime, bad roads and related infrastructure, an overcrowded education system etc.)
This one I can agree with entirely.
The only really ‘must haves’ of my 60’s youth movement were a color tv, and a Schwinn stingray…
60’s?
We didn’t have a color tee-vee till 1982.
In 1956 I got my first vehicle; a scooter made by my dad out of a pair of old roller skates and some scrap lumber.
What’s a TV?
I still have a Key to my roller skates.
You are so right and faster than me! The expectations of the young family had dramatically increased. Society has lost the ability to differentiate between need and want. So many women that say the “have to” work are working to support what they call the aspirational luxury lifestyle. People used to have smaller homes (like 2000k sf is tiny) and most were forced to live within their means because the easy credit didn’t exist. Imagine what life would be like without easy credit. Society would be very different if everyone was living within their means and only credit was for 1 can and a home.
Yep, I had someone at my workplace tell me that 35 an hour isn’t enough to raise a family on. I almost laughed my ass off. Questioning her further, I found out that this person wants a nice brand new house, two newish nice cars in the driveway,trips,etc…
Its all about the expectations and wants over what people actually need.
$35 an hour..i would save $100K in no time because i am so cheap.
Very true! We’re living in a 1930’s starter home, and that means 425sq ft on the main floor, and another 250 finished in the basement. It’s a cute little thing, well laid out, and it was CHEAP. Sure, we could have afforded more, but the lack of stress from living within your means is so refreshing.
Well, I live a very modest lifestyle (I cook at home, make my own coffee and muffins, walk everywhere, rent smaller than I can afford, save 20-40% of my income a year for retirement etc.) so I have sympathy with this pull-up-your-bootstraps point of view.
However, there is a documented redistribution of wealth going on. Sorry for the copy and paste but “For thirty years now, America’s great engine of economic growth has funneled that growth predominantly to the pockets of the richest Americans.
Take for example the year 2004. After decades of soaring, the real income of the richest one percent of Americans rose again by 12.5 percent. The other ninety-nine percent of the population? Just 1.5 percent income growth.
Even the top five percent of Americans — richer than 19 out of 20 of us — saw only modest gains. The action is all at the tip-top, and what a top it is.”
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2006/07/20060725_b_main.asp
I believe that second incomes (moms entering the workforce) and expanding credit has masked this problem. Yes, there are hyperconsuming crybabies. We all know some. But this is not entirely an issue of personal responsibility. I cannot see a reason why this is an either/or situation. Yes, the middle class should be more modest in its consumption habits, and yes the middle class actually has less money (less real money, more credit).
I think that a lot of this loss is in the form of societal losses (like underfunding of basic public services) which is why I mentioned it.
I think it is possible to address this problem without crying over the Marni wardrobe you cannot afford, although that is pretty tragic
Can I say for the record that most of the young families I know live very modestly? Generalizations bother me.
Even the top five percent of Americans — richer than 19 out of 20 of us — saw only modest gains. The action is all at the tip-top, and what a top it is.”
I can’t argue that it’s not true. I can’t help to think, though, that it’s a paper shuffling argument - all smoke and mirrors.
Does it matter that Bill Gates has 20 billion or 200 billion or whatever more than me? How much can 1 person spend? There is a real limit to the impact of money - you can’t buy the whole world or future technologies (or love or health, for that matter. *grin*).
For instance, as a lower middle class person in America, I have several miracles at my disposal: a car, several connections to the outside world including the Internet, TV, and telephones. My shelter includes all sorts of labor saving and sanitary devices only available to the super rich merely 100 years ago. All of Bill Gate’s stuff might be made out of nicer materials or bigger or better locations, but there is no important difference in the manner in which we live. In fact, I live better than what even the richest person could have bought 200 years ago.
I’d argue that in most developed countries, there is mostly a poverty of the spirit: people who consciously or unconsciously trashed their lives and will not make them better. The poorest person in America isn’t as half as poor as the those living in Africa. The real disparity between rich and poor exists in underdeveloped countries, not in 1st world nations.
There used to be a saying (before the 2nd World, ie. the Communist World Disappeared) that said. The Third World (everyone who didn’t fit in the First or Second) suffered from material poverty, the Second suffered from a poverty of freedom, the First world suffered a poverty of spirit.
Very nicely written Vermontergal. Hat tip to you.
Vermontergal,
Lost a post there but I agree completely. Slowly but surely I’m getting my extended family on the “modest is more fun” bandwagon. You know, why flaunt your wealth in front of newlyweds? They can’t afford $12 for a six-pack of micro-brews? Brand-X is fine. Why would anyone mention they saw a really expensive house they like in front of a young couple that doesn’t have cable tv? I don’t get it. If they tell you they got free tickets to a Triple A ball game… tell them you’d love to go.
Sounds great! Most of family was already all over cheap, so that’s helpful. I’m the frugal one in a family of backyard barbecues and jello salads if that tells you anything about me.
And I love minor league ball games - major leagues are expensive, stuffy, and boring. Players in the minor leagues make actual errors that keep the game interesting.
Minor league ? Why I go to see my cousin’s son play Jr high School baseball and love it!!
I can tell you from personal experience that it is totally possible to achieve a 50’s type lifestyle today, but you have to have much lowered expectations.
_____
I think there is one difference: the cost of education (for the amount of education you need to get a decent job, since, I gather, a lot of white collar jobs were available to high school graduates in the 50s).
I am waiting for the “Two Income Trap” by the Warrens to arrive from the library. Elizabethen Warren has done a lot of research on middle class financial stress, which is interesting.
I have noticed a new trend among my friends to embrace the idea of frugal living, which is interesting.
ella,
That’s hard to argue but rather than looking for all the reasons “it can’t be done” I’ve chosen to think of terms that *can be achieved. I was at a meeting w/ our local state rep. and one of the gals mentioned that she’s tired of hearing about all the people that “can’t afford” health care. She said she knows so many people that have cable tv, cell phones ota, brand new cars and really big house telling her they “can’t afford” health care!
I don’t necessarily want to get on a HC tangent but hope that brings home the point in some way. We no longer go to many pro sporting events. We go to Triple A and even some Single A games and everyone seems to have just as much fun there as $50 seats?
One issue that bugs me about as much as the housing bubble is the “festival” bubble! Enough already, just stay home and save your $75 bucks.
I think there is one difference: the cost of education (for the amount of education you need to get a decent job, since, I gather, a lot of white collar jobs were available to high school graduates in the 50s).
I agree that it is a glaring difference from the 50’s. On the other hand, not everyone was expected to graduate from high school. A high school degree actually meant something back then, now, it’s qualifies you for McDonald’s and the military. I call it “education inflation” - the 50’s high school diploma (which apparently was much more academically challenging than today’ diplomas) = a bachelor’s degree today.
However, I’d argue that there’s a lot of current emphasis on giving kids the full “college” experience. If kids stayed at home (gasp!), studied on their own for basic courses, did 2 year or community colleges etc, the costs of attaining a degree would come way down. One of the many reasons college costs so much is that it’s essentially 4 years of living at a hotel with weight rooms, sport clubs, etc. (I was lucky enough to have this type of college experience. I’m a bad enough parent that I’m not planning to save enough to have my kids repeat it. *grin*)
I am waiting for the “Two Income Trap” by the Warrens to arrive from the library. Elizabethen Warren has done a lot of research on middle class financial stress, which is interesting.
I’ve heard it’s a very good book but I haven’t had the chance to read it myself.
I have noticed a new trend among my friends to embrace the idea of frugal living, which is interesting.
Yeah for them! I’m much happier since we took control of our money.
That’s hard to argue but rather than looking for all the reasons “it can’t be done” I’ve chosen to think of terms that *can be achieved.
___________
Well, I appreciate that. However, I am not looking for reasons it can’t be done.
As I said just upthread (or downthread, I don’t know there it will post) I also believe in being proactive. I run a business, I invest, I save. I am not cring into my starbucks macchiato!
I don’t see why this turns into an either/or debate, though. I try to do what I can to live within my means (and not feel sorry for myself — I enjoy my life and the small luxuries that I do have). I see others doing the same. I wish regulations would force *most* to do the same (ie reduce available credit).
I *also* believe there is a real problem, much larger than individual responsibility, which needs to be addressed. I don’t think it’s going get solved overnight. However, it’s hard to solve a problem which is not identified: there is a growing income gap.
I see this as a threat to a stable, capitalist society. See: underfunded criminal justice system, exhibit A!
“However, I’d argue that there’s a lot of current emphasis on giving kids the full “college” experience.”
I totally agree! I told some people at a party last week that i would encourage my children to be plumbers or bakers or tradespeople of some sort. Only to pursue University if they had a real love of learning and/or teaching. People looked at me like I said I was going to encourage them to become strippers and pimps, or something.
It’s not like I would forbid them to be doctors or lawyers, jeesh.
I told some people at a party last week that i would encourage my children to be plumbers or bakers or tradespeople of some sort. Only to pursue University if they had a real love of learning and/or teaching. People looked at me like I said I was going to encourage them to become strippers and pimps, or something.
LOL - I’ve had the same experience. What kind of weirdos think that a high priced college degree might not worth the money *or* think that college might be a way to get an education, simply for the love of learning? *grin* It’s for a good job, darn it!!! (Whatever that is…)
If my kids want to go to college, with the grades and ambition to get something out of it, I’ll help. But I’m not going to encourage them to go in the rather mindless way my Dad did - as the *only* way to have a career and/or get a better job. The cost is way too high to “casually” go to college without knowing what you want out of it.
One last thing, Vermontergal,
” I think it’s pretty easy to argue that the external standard of living since the 50’s has gone up with advent of 2 income families.”
I agree it’s apples and oranges. I don’t think it is just the additional income earner, though. One interesting point that both Robert Shiller and Elizabeth Warren have made is that cost of many consumer goods has actually decreased, because of more efficient production methods (including underpaid foreign workers I guess…whoops), which means that people can have more consumer goods now, for less. The average family now spends less on clothing per year than, adjusted for inflation, than they did in the 1950s. That really surprised me.
However, the cost of basic necessities has increased, and relative wages earned have not kept pace. Also, Starbucks opened up on every corner, and WTH with all the fancy cars?
It is an apple-orange salad!
Also, Starbucks opened up on every corner, and WTH with all the fancy cars?
It is an apple-orange salad!
It’s an apple-orange salad filled with nuts (myself included!)
Sometimes I look around and think I was born a few decades too late. I don’t get Starbucks. I wish I could get quality cars with power nothing. Why would I want a stove with 20 buttons or a TV that gets 200 hundred channels, anyway? And am I the only person who thinks that people wearing those cell phone headphones look like total dorks?
On the other hand, I like the women’s lib thing, the Internet, and homeschooling, so it’s probably best I’m in this era. *grin*
And am I the only person who thinks that people wearing those cell phone headphones look like total dorks?
No. No, you’re not!
Ella,
another Wire fan here too. I thought the funding issue was brilliantly done. They did however explore the jobs issue…Baltimore lost so many longshoreman jobs, that the harbor was being converted to condos and more condos. The developers were in bed with the politicians, and both were willing to take laundered drug money. Meanwhile, the working class was eviserated, with no jobs or employment opportunities on the horizon.
spike66, you said it better than me, and they did handle it brilliantly. I feel like Omar would have handled the NAR really well, hee.
Yeah why would we want to put actual criminals in jail? I guess you really don’t mind violent animals roaming the streets…
I can’t speak to other parts of the country but the Pacific Northwest didn’t really benefit from the increased tax rolls that resulted from “the boom”. Our prisons were over crowded before. Crime in Portland is to the point where the Rose City PD doesn’t even come out to take a report for your stolen car. They mail you out a form and then you’re supposed to fill it out and send it back in. (Real sense of urgency huh?) Our roads, our roads… pffftt, how could they possibly suck more. We’ve been having declining services all through out the boom! What was their excuse then?
See that’s why I’m seldom convinced forking over more will improve things much? At least not in Oregon. Virtually everyone in our local city gov. (small-ish town outside of PDX) has gotten raises/promotions. And of course gov’t here has grown. I’d be more open to pony’ing up in the tough times if I saw more evidence of some benefit in the good.
Virtually everyone in our local city gov. (small-ish town outside of PDX) has gotten raises/promotions ??
It’s the inmates running the insane asylum….
Does that include all the pot smokers ?
“So I think the public can expect there will be an awful lot of criminals that won’t get arrested, won’t go to jail and won’t get prosecuted.”
So…you run around acting crazy, speculating on homes, loading up on massive debt, just basically being totally irresponsible. And as blow back you get to have criminals walking the street preying on you and your family.
A decent, honest and honorable society would not have this problem.
Talk about KARMA! Major KARMA.
“but that the situation here is nowhere near as grim as in parts of the Southwest, Midwest and Florida. ”
Funny how the spread of ” It isn’t like it is in…” has gone from just FL and CA to the entire Southwest, Midwest, and Florida. What does that leave? The Southeast and Northeast? Well… numbers out today show the Southeast as right behind the Southwest. The Northeast can’t be far from behind that.
Somehow the argument that oh- it’s bad here but not as bad as somewhere else doesn’t seem valid anymore.
How about the other change in message?
From, “it can’t happen here”,
to “it is not that bad here”,
to “at least we’re not as grim as…”.
Welcome to to the wacky world of the Montana news media. There is plenty of evidence that the economy of Montana is slowing down, paticulary in southwest Montana, if you want notice it. Most papers in this state don’t want to notice it.
It’s a steady progression, and it goes nowhere good.
Next: “It’s nowhere near as grim as the West, Northeast, South, and Midwest.”
Then: “It’s nowhere near as grim as in New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming.”
And Then: “Here in Helena, it’s nowhere near as grim as in Northwest Montana, Big Sky, or the now-oil-busted Eastern Montana.”
Finally: “If your house is paid off and you are independently wealthy, then your situation is not nearly as grim as that of the rest of the suckers on your block.”
Did you see the ass-kissing, suck-up puff piece about Tim Blixseth in the Bozeman Daily Chronicle Sunday? Blixseth must be in deep trouble when he needs to give interviews to the Chronicle like that.
Tango,
This has GOT to be especially rewarding for you! Just as Portland (where it took forever) seeing the darkness fall on your little neck o’ the woods has got to feel great. I suppose had we been renters in FL or Vegas we might already be well positioned in a “dream” house and actually looking forward to stabilizing, possibly even appreciation at some point?
But NO…! We had to be in “hold out” markets that are just now getting their turn in the barrel. Well, better late than never.
DinOR, it’s been awhile! I’m not ready to call dusk yet. We have seen a foreclosure spike and sales drop since the first of the year here in town, but I have been faked out before. I’m learning that economic cycles take their time.. you can play ‘em if you feel lucky, but you can’t rush ‘em.
OFHEO says the holdout markets are ND, UT, WY, and MT. Sounds about right. And FYI, I’m really, honestly working on a new video set for release this summer.
Oh I can’t wait! The last one was so comprehensive, and.. fair. I’d love to see your “bike tour” of all the failing and near empty gated communites in Bend that will now allow homes of any size to be built just so the builder can get out from under the lot!
Only this time I think it’s safe to say you won’t be needing those kid gloves. Can’t wait, I’m really looking forward to that!
“Local real estate officials weren’t surprised by the declines in sales and prices. ‘That’s the market,’ said Tom Greene, president of the Realtors association. ‘Sellers aren’t going to get what they got in 2006.’”
Weren’t real estate types there saying not too long ago that Bend was immune from declines, because it was “different”???
Oh Bend is different alright! I hate to say it but I enjoy watching these 2nd home/vacation areas get punked almost as much as I do major metro areas. I’ve openly asked what might unfold if all the specuvestors from Portland finally elect to stay at home if they’re looking for investment properties? I see Bend withering on the vine for some time to come. It may never fully recover.
Bend (Over), OR?
“Weren’t real estate types there saying not too long ago that Bend was immune from declines, because it was “different”???”
Well, they are different. That’s the thing they have in common with everywhere else.
‘Things have slowed to such a crawl that a lot of Realtors, lenders and builders are not going to make it in this environment.’
Lol… Twice as many in the industry as during a normal time… Almost 1% of GNP was being spent on Realtor ™ commisions during the peak. Normally the peak is 0.5% with the recession being 0.25%. They haven’t begun to see the dark.
“‘What I’m telling clients is, if you need to sell and don’t want to get stuck, look at what the peak pricing was and take 5 percent off the asking price,’ Ares said. ‘Otherwise, they’ll just be chasing the market down.’”
… and accept the offer 10% below asking! Oh, so many won’t ‘give it away’ that they’ll chase the market forever. A coworker was relocated out of Las Vegas. Despite a $200k+ ‘windfall’, he pulled his home off the market because “discounting $75k was as far as I was willing to go.” As he described the golf course and other value adding features of his house… my tongue really hurt as I faked a smile and nodded. You don’t want to know what else was going through my head as he started bragging about his 4th car; its a sweet V8 supercharged Jaguar he’s had for about four months…
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Heard that Tata in India bought Jaguar. These are the guys that own Tetly tea too.
Good for them. They must save.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Inflation continues to rage. How long before the Fed is forced to raise interest rates?
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080414/inflation_squeeze.html
I predict that the rates will start going up after the November election but before the new President takes office.
You might be right about that.
How long before the Fed is forced to raise interest rates?
Once the mjority of the write downs have occured and the financial markets are stabilized, watch out above for interest rates IMO…
I wonder how long before the government has to massively revamp the inflation rate formula they use? The one thing they cannot show is rising inflation. So to cook the books, I suppose they could start including real estate price deflation into the equation. They need to find something that is dropping to fudge the numbers.
*Raise* interest rates??? A Fed that *cares* about inflation (much less fights it)???
Wake up. Everyone knows the Fed only *lowers* interest rates. If necessary, they will go negative (nominally as well as inflation-adjusted).
” Groome Figures even a full-blown statewide recession won’t slow Oregon down for long. It never has.”
I graduated from college in Oregon in the early 80″s. The state and its people were devistated for almost a decade after the recession of 1981. Almost everyone I went to college with moved to other states to get jobs.
This guy has no understanding of what a real recession is like.
Very few people do. It’s like they all forgot. I really don’t get it either. What are they putting in the water?
Dead Clownifornians ?
“Communities such as Lebanon are seeing a trickledown effect, said Jacki Nicklous, president of the Santiam Board of Realtors.
Jacki, I think you’re just about to start a string of double bogeys…
Realtors ™ have the best names on the planet.
OT..ya’ll might appreciate this one..
A house I looked at back in 2003, which sold for $615,000 on 11/07/03, is now on the market for $779,000. It’s a FSBO, so I bet the brokers gave the seller a listing price that would be giving the house away.
WTF?
‘write-downs resulting from impaired investments.’
Is this “old school” economics… or… “new age” financial innovation & transparency?
Bugs: “eh, why the long duck bill Daffy?”
Daffy: “My financial wealth in my 7 lakes duck pond is goin’ south Bugsy”
Bugs: “eh, what do you mean?”
Daffy: Well it WAS worth a cool million…but now they say it’s only worth $600,000 loonies…but I won’t take less then $925,000…
Bugs: “But Daffy you ponds are sittin’ at the base of a volcano…and there could be tremors & earthquakes even if it doesn’t blow…have you asked the county assessor for a tax valuation? Not to make you even more nervous…but Foghorn Leghorn said he heard rumors of lay-offs over at the WB…ah, what could possibly go wrong in toonville.”
. ‘And in fairness to the buyers, in 40 to 50 percent of the subprime loans, they could have gotten a prime loan and were up-sold.’”
This is a great statistic. It tells us that 40-50% of mortgage brokers in Montana are either crooked or unethical.
Upsold to subprime. Talk about mixing your metaphors.
and they don’t even have the guts to describe the scam in a negative term, but instead use some effin usual positive-word play & say people were “upsold”, instead of really what happened, which was the old bait n switch tactic.
so now we see the roosters staying home to roost by fed-up, pissed off & broke consumers deciding they have had enough of getting ripped off at every turn, from cars to houses. after years of enduring scams the truth emerges with a vengeance, thanks to much faster & easier means of communications, like cell phones and the internet. people no longer have to hear about how badly aunt millie was ripped-off, by chatting over the fence during laundry or at the office. and decades of such bad practices have jaded current buyers to distrust every sales pitch.
the sharks have no one to blame but themselves for declining sales as they have pretty much sacrificed long term repeat loyal customers for short-term quick profits. yet these companies all chant they have to “compete” in the global marketplace. to that I cite examples of quality bidness’ thriving along side cheaper but lower quality competitors, like In N Out Burger, Chik Fil A, and many other companies that want repeat customers by treating the existing ones fairly.
hey, we all wanted world wide capitalism, and fought the godless commies for the american right to unbridled, out-of-control, unregulated business. Well, it’s here, so eat, drink & be merry . Oh wait, no one mentioned that the other 7 billion people on the planet want the same great middle class lifestyle, that they wouldnt be content with living in a mud hut, and there are only so many resources to spare, and that america’s middle class, the world’s policeman, wont reap the rewards of maintaining global order and doesnt deserve a forever-lock on the good life? !
Oh well, that life. sorry sucker, now pay yer house taxes, gas up & get to yer cube farm before you lose yer job to people who will do it for 1/4 the cost.
rant off - for now
She must have been a broker at some point, because unfortunately, “upsell” was exactly how the brokers viewed it. “Upsell” the “client” for way better margins/kickbacks from the lender.
It tells us they were all scum, but only half their custmers fell for the lies!
“there are some hotspots of foreclosure activity in Montana, but that the situation here is nowhere near as grim as in parts of the Southwest, Midwest and Florida. Woodrow cautioned that one in five loans made in Montana in 2006 was a high-cost loan, a category that includes adjustable rate mortgages.”
Dear Woodrow,
So what your saying is your sack of burning turd is just less on fire and not as turdy?
Yours truly,
Muggy
OMFG, I wrote “your” instead of “you’re.” I’m going to hang myself.
muggy
you can relax as the typo police on the blog have been laid off due to budget cutbacks. programmers are exempt. as is the new sculpture in the virtual lobby. and dont ogle the receptionist.
NO! You don’t understand me.
There are 3 things that make me different than 17.5 million Floridians
1. Seeing, acknowledging, and accepting the housing bubble
2. Using my turn signal
3. Using “you’re” when appropriate
You’re in Florida. Get in the fast lane, drive 45, and leave the left turn signal on! Didn’t you read the brochure?
But for the poorest U.S. families, the higher costs may mean going hungry. A family of four is eligible for a maximum $542 a month in food stamps, which never lasted the whole month before, Food Bank of New Jersey’s DiChiara said.
“Now food stamps go fewer and fewer days of the month,” she said.
The Food Bank recently got a letter of its own from a key vendor. Its grim message: Sorry, but the prices they charge the Food Bank would be increasing 20 percent, due to food inflation.
This is a more realistic inflation rate based on the price changes I am seeing at the grocery store. 4% is complete bullshit. Who should I believe?
The government or my lying eyes?
Food up 20%. Plasma TVs down 15%. You buy a new TV just as often as you buy food, right?
Great point. The government data on inflation is beyond crap.
So, what do you get when you push investment losses onto the public sector, via price inflation? On a global scale?
Apparently, you get a food crisis.
People are starving. And they are not going down without a fight. These people know that somewhere across the globe people made off with billions of dollars, and now they are going to die for it.
Fighting is all they can do.
So we have Bend (over) OR to go along with Wendover (Bendover) UT and NV. A blink of a town on the UT/NV border with a bunch of casinos for all of the Salt Lake metro and surrounding areas to visit. Na, nobody from SLC would make that 120 mile drive through the desert to give all of their money to the NV casino operators, now would they?
Speaking of Montana, check out the Zillow chart for this place in Missoula. It’s way overpriced for the area, by a factor of 3 or 4. I know the people who own it, and a carpenter who worked on it when it was being built. 7000sf. Must have been spec though because it shows a sale in 2005 right when the value spiked. That had to hurt.
Well, here’s a proxy for the J6P economy. 52 week low in AH
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/retail/10411983.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA
I did my part I have so many I stumble over them in the middle of the night.
Poll: Growing majority avoid buying homes
Americans’ pessimism over housing crisis seen growing
WASHINGTON - A growing majority say they won’t buy a home anytime soon, the latest sign of increasing pessimism about the nation’s housing crisis, a poll showed Monday.
In a vivid sketch of how the sputtering real estate market is causing distress throughout the country, the Associated Press-AOL Money & Finance poll found that more than a quarter of homeowners worry their home will lose value over the next two years. Fully one in seven mortgage holders fear they won’t be able to make their monthly payments on time over the next six months.
“This is a great time to buy, but not necessarily to sell,” said Robert Jackson, who lives in a two-bedroom house in Ferguson, Mo., with his wife and four young children. He said he would love to purchase a larger home, but can’t because even if he found a buyer, he would probably lose thousands on his house, which he bought less than two years ago.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24106617/