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It’s common nowadays for married couples (with kids) to both work, and oftentimes making it happen financially, depends upon it.
Combine this with the price of food & gas going through the roof, and many are walking on the razor’s edge…
And what happens should one of them lose their job?
Actually a full double income is not necessary, but we expect and demand more then our parents did 30 years ago. Bigger house, 2-3 cars lot more electronic toys. We had lots of after school activities but it was free or low cost. only RICH people ever sent their kids to ballet dance tennis soccer classes. Most everyone i know grew up in houses less the 1500 sq ft , but we all had basements to play in (most unfinished and part of it taken up by a garage)and a small yard.
We made a lot of our our things up to have fun with, amazing how many people had those 4 foot round pools in the back sure kept us busy……plus if we got hurt nobody ran to the lawyers either……
Kids in their teens can run up a cell phone bill into a few hundred Dollars a month, as they busily keep in touch with one-another all the time, but hardly ever share any face-time together, for some reason?
Could it be we are training them for a lifetime in a Dilbert Cubicle?
Stepford Children
I am just astonished at how many will spend $100K+ on their education and wind up so totally clueless
Look what they’re teaching them. More important to learn about safe sex and diversity than math.
Brought to your family, neighborhood, and nation; courtesy of the Progressive Liberal Democrats, who of course know better than God or anyone else what is politically CORRECT and useful in life.
Absolutely agree. I will just leave the sex thing alone, because I think that our attitudes towards that as a nation are horribly dysfunctional; but the math thing… What a total miscarriage of education it is that many of our students cannot do simple math when leaving high school. Percentages, fractions, geometry… These are SO fundamental to life that, frankly, I think that students who have trouble with them should continue to repeat the courses until they get it.
Not as punishment.. Only to help them understand the most (IMHO) fundamental forces that govern the way the world works. Imagine how “out there” it seems to compute the interest on a 30 year MTG it is for someone who can’t divide a number by 10.
The lack of math education, imho, is horribly damaging this country. Math and science should be some of the most “stressed” courses in high school, and certainly in grade school!
And, I will also say, there’s a limit as well. Calculus (and even precal) is simply not useful for most people at any point in their lives. Doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t teach/offer it, but that not everyone should be required to take higher maths.
In fact, if more people understood math, this entire bubble would not have been possible. It’s the math smart exploiting the math weak..
Also, the fact that we don’t teach finance (of any kind) in high school is another miscarriage of education. Say what you want; but money makes the world go round. Nobody should leave school without an understanding of how it works!
I apologize if this is OT, however at the age of 60 I signed up for physics and chem classes. I have now bailed, because the instructors/teachers/professors/or whatever you call them are teaching basically by memorization. Maybe because I do not have the same retention level as an 18 year old, however, I have decided to self study. I went not for a grade or a degree (who would hire me anyway), but to learn how to think mathematically/scientifically.
What students are learning, in my experience in the LA Unified School District Junior College, is memorizing specific situations and not learning how to think through a problem. Classes cannot possibly provide an example with a solution that a student can remember. Believe me, this is what is demanded of students, and of course, students will do what is requested of them. The high grade students will rely upon brute force, memorization to get the good grade and get through the class.
My concern is that I want to learn the process of thinking out mathematical/scientific problems. Even If my answer is wrong, I will get closer to a solution that has yet been discussed.
Am I wrong here?
You are right. It is in the schools interest and easier for the teacher for the students to pass and do well on tests. So they teach and test memorization, not thinking through processes.
Peaceful, I neglected to say, that the course halfway through the semester has a 50% drop rate and the instructor feels that that is acceptable for an intro physics course.
If this is the Junior Colleges attitude, all “He$ls going to break lose” when the LA tax payer finally figures out how their hard earned bucks are being spent in what is in essence senior high school, IMHO.
But, but…
I’ve got a Mt. Sac degree
You have to walk before you can run. One of the main reasons math ed is in the tank is because memorization and so-called “drill and kill” has in fact been de-emphasized over the last 20 years, in favor of supposedly teaching “critical thinking,” which you can NOT do if you have not mastered the subject yet.
I do understand that some basic knowledge is critical otherwise you you are operating in a vacuum, however if you never learn the skill necessary to solve a unique problem (I guess that is what life throws at you), then you are a highly paid worthless employee.
My only concern is that the skills necessary to take basic laws, etc and know how apply them is critical. This is what I was taught was what was education. If I wanted to get an answer that was correctly thought out and laid out, then I could go to a computer/calculator (in my day, it was a slide ruler or the basement of the computer science building).
I know this maybe off topic, however, It appears that a lot of people complain about the thinking of the public in getting sucked into these real estate scams. I suspect that what I am saying is part of the problem…
People are being programmed to provide an answer to the unique circumstances, without thinking thru the problem. If the problem doesn’t fit into a solution to a prior situation with an answer, they are lost (faking it).
Has anyone over the age of 30 looked at a textbook in their major? It is very visual, visual software incorporated and terribly expensive.
What ever happen with a pencil and paper and an understanding of basic definitions. I suspect that their is no hierarchy in the thinking process. In short, its referred to dumbing down.
I always thought homeschooling was an easy out for extremists, however I am beginning to see their point. Looking at what is rightwing conservatism is looking more and more important, coming from a moderate/liberal perspective. I strongly believe in public education, however, if this is what public education has to offer, I say let it die.
IMHO
More important to learn about safe sex and diversity than math.
I guess its been a few years since y’all were out and about, but there are several new diseases that have entered our society in the past few years. Ignorance can be deadly.
“What ever happen with a pencil and paper”
I really, strongly agree with this. Software encourages a different thought pattern than pencil and paper. Software logic is always about a choice from a set menu. Pencil and paper is better for abstract and critical thinking.
I have a question. What employer now days want people that can use a pencil, paper and think critically? If you do think critically, don’t go along with corporate think, you will be accused of not being a team player.
But if you only want a “fall person”, you are correct! If you are relying on that person to give a fair appraisal of a solution to a problem, you are “are dead”. I guess it depends on the size of the organization you work for. Small and limber, I guess, will always beat the “big and slow”.
Have you seen how HORRIBLE the kids penmanship skills are today?
We had to write and write and write between the yellow lines and write straight on blank paper…..not that easy.
————————————————
“What ever happen with a pencil and paper”
“Brought to your family, neighborhood, and nation; courtesy of the Progressive Liberal Democrats, who of course know better than God or anyone else what is politically CORRECT and useful in life.”
You know, that’s just dishonest. The repubs made education a federal dept. and with their dim bulb approach to teaching, came up with No Child Left Behind, in which teachers are now forced to teach the test, not the subject.
Good school districts now work around the Bush rules. Of course, Bush was gov. of Texas which is known for its abysmal schools.
Good on ya Lost Control. You’ve got to keep educating yourself your whole life or you end up an idiot, incapable of understanding the origins of what is occuring around you. Case in point - the housing bubble.
I am also revisiting a lot of topics in math and physics for my current task and I think I’m better at understanding things now due to 2 factors - more patience/less easily distracted, and the net. I have all my old college textbooks and I was reviewing a topic in one book but when I googled the same topic, the presentations online were much better - I wish I had had those available to me than all the Wiley books with crappy notation.
Theres an old saying: Tell me, I forget. Show me, I remember. Make me, I understand. Kids need as part of their learning to play with real objects/data, otherwise theyre just regurgitating things without any real understanding of their applicability or significance.
And there is no question that being able to visualize things in your mind and play with concepts helps in your understanding. Many of the best mathematicians and physicists I’ve met are visually impaired.
I disagree with that comment about two incomes not being necessary, it depends on where you live.
My son who lives with us couldn’t make it on his own making 12.00 per hour (which is high for my area in Florida)
Here in Florida you get paid in “sunshine and smiles”.
I don’t really know what area of the country anyone could live and make it off of 12.00 per hour.
UH Has you son every heard of a Mobile Home? Its for people like him who don’t earn enough to rent an apartment….sorry i lived in one and shared it with a waitress, when i couldn’t afford a real aprtment.
UH, Yes of course he has heard of mobile homes.
You just proved my point when you said you had to “share” with a waitress, so I am correct when I say two incomes are needed to make it in the current state of our economy.
Even if he rented a mobile home, his wages are not enough to cover rent, electric, gas, car insurance, groceries, contribution to any 401k plan, clothes etc..
His car insurance alone is 156.00 per month and he didn’t go big on his coverage.
I don’t know how people do it. Feeding 3-6 people? Two cars? Activities for the sprogs?
The mind wobbles
His car insurance alone is 156.00 per month
wtf??
$156 a month…why isn’t he responsible and have safe drivers?
I pay $650 a YEAR….on a 12 year old car
He could join the Army.
Basic pay for an E-1 with less than 4 months of active duty is $1,239.90.
And, he is out of your house and may become a self sufficient adult.
The army is perhaps the best prospect nowadays for a young adult…
Be all that you can be~
The world needs ditch diggers too
j.smales
Another area of inflation is privates with 3 kids.
Only sargeants used to be married…
$156 a month…why isn’t he responsible and have safe drivers?
I pay $650 a YEAR….on a 12 year old car
I second that “Wha….?”
I pay a little over $700 per year on a 10 year old car. And aNYCdj and I are in two of the biggest cities in the US.
Ask your agent what the rate would be if you were 20.
$379 a year for 2 cars and a pickm-up truck (300K coverage AARP Hartford). It helps to be a safe driver too.
Society also forces this upon us with bigger (and thus more costly) houses, higher costs for everything, etc. If you don’t have 2 incomes and work like a nut for long hours, forget having kids or a house in most Bubble Zones. What a joke…
———————-
“Society also forces this upon us with bigger (and thus more costly) houses…”
Is it the “society” or the businesses that profit from this and other changes in people’s behavior? I believe that the populace can be manipulated to a great degree in doing what is not in its interests, no?
Jas
Well, it largely depends on your definition of “manipulation”.
If by the term, you mean a bunch of guys sitting in a room deciding the future, then I suggest you buy a tinfoil hat.
If by the term, you mean that a whole bunch of independent players do things to maximize their own benefit, and in doing so, derive a suboptimal outcome for society as a whole, then I’m willing to, at the very least, have a conversation with you (or a few beers.)
You don’t need to be a bleedin’ genius to figure out that opening a casino to sucker the masses is a good thing for you personally. From this general idea, many other specifics follow.
“but we all had basements to play in (most unfinished)”
aNYCdj
A few of us were reminiscing recently about our childhood winter time riding of our bicycles in the basements of our ranch style homes, going around in circles over and over again. Big smiles on those faces in all the glossy black and whites, though!
Do you have any similar memories?
We rode the wagon in the basement, hence the still present hole in the wall at tongue height
“only RICH people ever sent their kids to ballet dance tennis soccer classes.”
Not so. When I was growing up in
Texas in the 1950s and 60s, I was as poor as anybody you have probably ever met in your life, and I went to ballet classes, art classes, violin and tennis lessons, all provided free of charge by the Fort Worth public school district. It was only when I was in high school and realized that without the help of a private violin teacher and a canny country club tennis pro, I would progress no more, that I fell behind in my chosen sports/arts. I’m sure that, today, most of these so-called extracurricular activities have been slashed to the bone, but still. They have not always been only for rich people.
The story for 1 out of every 5 foreclosures right now..not everyone of them was a FB…for some this is simply not within their control…
since 1947 taxes have almost tripled as % of gdp
so spouse works to pay taxes
And the commute bill, and the business clothes, and the babysitter.
Almost all the additional money goes to senior citizens. There used to be fewer of them, and they used to be cared for at home.
Not really. The reason for Social Security and Medicare was the poverty rate among seniors in this country was national disgrace. These have been the most successful social programs in our history.
I predict that when those born after 1958 or so reach old age the poverty rate among seniors will be right back where it was.
Why? Soc Sec is solvent until 2075.
“These have been the most successful social programs in our history”.
You can not be serious. Wow!
I predict that when those born after 1958 or so reach old age the poverty rate among seniors will be right back where it was.
Not likely. While SS will only be able to pay out discounted benefits, it will still pay benefits. Prior to SS there was nothing.
Not saying that there isn’t a better way to do this, just that before SS most of the elderly had nothing.
Getting $500 a month when gas costs $10 a gallon may as well be nothing. Social Security and other such benefits are adjusted according to the “core” inflation rate, which as we all know includes nothing useful like: energy, food, housing, etc.
Good point WMBZ. A true sign of success would be the complete abolishment of SS make those worthless elderly folks dig trenches on a chain gang to earn their keep.
That’s the way to do it!!!!
“since 1947 taxes have almost tripled as % of gdp”
Another one of your misrepresentations? Again?
Fed, State, local taxes as percent of GPD was 8.1% in 1948. In 2007 they were 10.8% which is a 33% increase. Why did you lie and say they were up almost 300%?
http://tinyurl.com/4sp5hy
I don’t think it is appropriate to measure taxes against the Government Per Diem rate. I don’t think it existed in 1948.
I don’t know where he got the fantasy 300% but it wasn’t from anywhere solid source.
The tax issue is very tricky. You can call me “self-absorbed” on this matter as I tend to look at how my personal tax burden has changed over time. Or, to make it more general, I look at how individuals’ tax burden has changed. As far as I am concerned, my tax burden relative to GDP doesn’t do much for me.
I would love to find a reliable source that could put together direct tax, indirect tax, and stealth tax versus income growth/shrinkage over a 100 year timespan or so.
For example, we can go to:
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html
to see that we are progressively getting raked over the coals as individuals via SS and Medicare tax increases. You can see this behavior with just about any tax. The only tax that I have ever known to go down has been the Federal Income tax for “wealthy” individuals (got up to 94% in the 40s).
Anyway, if someone combined our ever-increasing direct tax rates with our corporate tax rates (which gets passed to us via higher prices) and the stealthy inflation tax and then compared it all against individual income growth/shrinkage I bet we’d have quite a picture.
On second thought, maybe I don’t want to see it. I might puke. However, if anybody knows where this info resides, I’d love to know about it. If not, maybe it is a good project for someone.
Talk about Tax….Menphis Tenn. just proposed a 17% increase in their property tax…Gotta keep those fat pension’s funded ya know…
I’d actually be curious to see if there has been an increase in the number of families reverting back to the stay-at-home-mom model. It seems like I hear an awful lot of families doing exactly that, which doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me given that often times, these families make financial sacrifices to do so and probably also delay retirement by years in doing so. I guess I just find it strange. Maybe because my family has always had dual working couples for as far back as I remember.
I think that if you live in a metro area, then you should count on having both family members work and learn to more carefully plan your time with your kids. I never felt deprived for time with my parents myself. Anyhow, just my opinion.
Given today’s job instability, where even in “good times” people get laid off, I think that the single income household can be a risky choice.
Maybe in some cases they have done the math and it makes more sense for one partner to stay home - after one adds up the cost of child care (especially pre school), a second car, work wardrobe, cost of commuting etc etc maybe they found they were working for a couple of hundred bucks a month.
Good thought but predicated on the idea that you have a stable marriage and divorce won’t enter into the picture. Should divorce happen the spouse out of the work force comes out worse for wear after missing many years of experience in their field. Having said that, just perhaps, the way the economy is headed maybe it will force families to stay together and work out their problems due to economic necessity.
They did exactly that on one of the major news programs a couple of years ago.
The lady was working full time, bringing home (as I recall) around $45K/year. After subtracting child care, gas, lunches/dinners out, second car payment, insurance, taxes, etc. etc., it worked out that her actual take-home pay was three bucks an hour. She quit work to stay at home with the kids the next week.
The formula changes a little when the kids start school, but not by a whole lot.
I’ve been there, and even though money is tight on one paycheck, the second check for the average US family doesn’t bring in nearly as much as it should, when you consider the wear and tear on the whole family, when mom works.
I think I saw that too. Childcare is a huge expense. For us it hasn’t made much sense for me to work, mainly because of daycare expenses. I do volunteer work, and also have a very minimal part-time job. More important than adding income, it’s making and keeping employment contacts.
It isn’t easy. Our kids have to fit in with a world where preschool and afterschool activities are the norm. If they weren’t in some stuff, they might have a hard time relating to their peer group. Of course, our home life probably has a lot more to offer — open, self-directed, leisurely afternoons, for starters.
I think if you can do it (financially) and want to do it (emotionally), it’s a good choice. At least when the kids are pre-kindergarten.
I think it’s great if you do it right. I just heard from a SAHM at my blog..her hubby is a well compensated IT guy with the state. They have at least 3 kids, maybe 4…and she’s still young. Live simply, go camping etc. Get the kids up into their teens, then mom can slowly transition back into the workforce. Lots of teachers and nurses did it that way for decades.
It’s when you wait until you’re 40 to do everything that it gets all balled up.
Having the stay-at-home spouse can go a long way toward saving more than would be earned net.
I know my wife saves us thousands each year with her frugal shopping, cooking, etc. How many nights/week does the average 2 income family eat take-out?
Our plan is to switch when I retire, she is building a career by starting part time while the kids are in school. She plans on going full time when I retire.
As for delayed retirement. I’m 40 and I’ve got 10 years expenses saved up. If it weren’t for the war on savers I’d be retired today.
OK as long it is not always mom but dad who is the one who stays at home with the children and eventually transitions back into the work force.
What happens if the single breadwinner in the family loses his job? That’s far more terrifying to me and why I’m heading back to school.
Reccomend a book called “the Two Income Trap Why Middle-Class Parents are Going Broke” by Warren- good food for thought on this topic
Two-income trap: yes, I am halfway through it and recommend it too.
DON’T WORRY! If you expect to be foreclosed anyway, ACT NOW to have your house payment’s escrow review early so you can get an early refund of any expected surpluses.
This brought to you by one of my failing friends who had already acted to spend his local “End of the ‘Robin Hood’ school funding system property tax reduction”.
As mentioned below, the two income trap by Warren and Warren-Tiyagi is exactly about this.
If you require 2 incomes for your basics (house, car, food, maybe insurance) and something happens to 1 parent the whole family is in trouble. If a family depends on 1 income and something happens, the second parent can be deployed.
One thing in that book, too: They do studies for inflation-adjusted spending, and find that families actually spend less on non-necessities than in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Mortgages are the main culprit.
I was happy to read that because, to be honest, I am a bit fed up with the quick judgement that young families are all vacationing in bermuda with flat-screen tvs. If I think of every family unit *I personally know* within my age group (28-40), there is only 1 that qualifies for the spendthrift title. In every other case, people live modestly (eating at home, no car, or 1 old car max, second-hand clothes) - and these are employed young professionals in most cases. However, many are leveraged heavily in mortgage and/or student debt AKA good debt, according to our parents and many personal finance books. (No mcmansions, either, mostly small condos in older buildings.)
I would like to see a law passed making amortizations over 25 years illegal. 40 year mortgages are the culprit in our neck of the woods. I nearly got one, so I understand the pressure my friends feel. I am glad we didn’t get one, though.
One seldom-mentioned contributor, I think, is student loans.
When I went to school (college/graduate school) 30 years ago, student loans were rare, and were small. Students usually paid in full, assorted combinations of jobs plus parents’ contributions. In my case, it was living for free at home, scholarships and fellowships, and multiple part-time jobs all adding up to no student loans needed or wanted.
I know some parents back them took out loans to help their kids pay for school, but those were usually old-fashioned second mortages, not today’s student loans in the students’ name.
The way-out-of-whack cost of much higher education is IMO at least equal to the hosuing bubble in increasing costs to families.
Agreed. I went through an elite private college + graduate school and came out with on $1300 in student loans. Which seemed like an enormous sum to me at the time, but still…
Greenpeace founder now backs nuclear power
Patrick Moore tells the Boise chamber that the world must wean itself from fossil fuels to reduce greenhouse gases.
ELSEWHERE
* Snake River Alliance
* CASEnergy
BY ROCKY BARKER - rbarker@idahostatesman.com
Edition Date: 04/24/08
Greenpeace founder Patrick Moore says there is no proof global warming is caused by humans, but it is likely enough that the world should turn to nuclear power - a concept tied closely to the underground nuclear testing his former environmental group formed to oppose.
The chemistry of the atmosphere is changing, and there is a high-enough risk that “true believers” like Al Gore are right that world economies need to wean themselves off fossil fuels to reduce greenhouse gases, he said.
“It’s like buying fire insurance,” Moore said. “We all own fire insurance even though there is a low risk we are going to get into an accident.”
The only viable solution is to build hundreds of nuclear power plants over the next century, Moore told the Boise Metro Chamber of Commerce on Wednesday. There isn’t enough potential for wind, solar, hydroelectric, and geothermal or other renewable energy sources, he said.
With development of coal-fired electric generation stopped cold over greenhouse gases, the only alternative to nuclear power for producing continuous energy at the levels needed is natural gas. But climate change isn’t the only reason to move away from fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels also are a major health threat. “Coal causes the worst health impacts of anything we are doing today,” Moore said.
Plus, uranium can be found within the United States and also comes in large quantities from Canada and Australia. Nuclear Power reduces the reliance on supplies in dangerous places including the Middle East, he said.
Moore spoke at the chamber breakfast after an appearance in Idaho Falls Tuesday night that attracted 300 people. He also spoke to the Idaho Environmental Forum in Boise, all sponsored by the Partnership for Science and Technology.
He represents the Clean Air and Safe Energy Coalition, a nuclear energy-backed group promoting reactors for electric energy generation. He began his career as a leader of Greenpeace fighting nuclear testing and working to save whales.
In recent years, he has taken on causes unpopular with his former group, like old-growth logging, keeping polyvinyl chlorides and now nuclear energy.
He says his change of heart comes from his background in science and a different approach to sustainability.
He sees a need for maintaining technologies that are not harmful while fixing or replacing those that are harmful.
“We don’t believe we have been making too much electricity,” he said. “We believe we’ve been making energy with the wrong technologies.”
His critics, like Andrea Shipley, executive director of the Snake River Alliance, say he has simply sold out.
“The only reason Patrick Moore is backing something as unsafe and risky as nuclear power is he is being paid by the nuclear industry to do so,” Shipley said.
They must have lost their funding from the Oil Heat Institute.
Can we please kill this canard about “everyone who disagrees with global warming is paid by big oil”? I’m in the solar industry, for pete sake, and I’m convinced GW is a bunch of political bullsh**. GW hype is the worst thing that’s come along in my lifetime with regard to the real environmental problems that we need to deal with, because it’s causing everyone to take their eyes of the ball in major way.
Besides, if carbon sequestration comes on line, who do you think is going to own that? Big energy, of course. They don’t care which way the political winds blow, they’ll bank on it no matter what.
And let’s not forget carbon credits: a new way to securitize BS into various tranches and sell them, just like with the Housing Bubble. But this time, Wall Street has got it right since a carbon credit is basically nothing, so they can swap this paper back and forth on top of a mountain of leverage and make a fortune without the risk of actually having a real item, like a house, go into foreclosure and thus decrease in value. It’ll be great! Buy your carbon credits now or be priced out forever!
Preach it, bro. The carbon trading markets are as unregulated as the RE lending markets have been, perhaps worse. No one can say with any certainty what a valid “carbon offset” actually is.
And there are already a bunch of folks getting quite rich off this latest scam. One of them happens to be a well-known politician who burns carbon like there’s no tomorrow, jetting around the globe preaching TEOTWAWKI, while running his own carbon trading operation. I won’t mention his name, but he’s known for not letting media into any of his speeches anymore…
The guy that “invented the Internet”?
Yeah, I love it……the puke has a piece of all kinds of “green” ventures, while going on non-stop about the global warming issue…..no, no conflict-of-interest there….
Yeah, adopt nuclear power plant expansion at the same time as the world is producing millions of baby terrorists…that do not share the same feelings towards the American flag as you & I do. How close to Reagan or Shrubs “ranches” do you think one will get built?
This is old news, man.
Moore has been pro-nuclear power for at least a decade, possibly longer.
“His critics, like Andrea Shipley, executive director of the Snake River Alliance, say he has simply sold out.”
How convenient. Someone is a sellout because they disagree with the global warming propoganda.
Perhaps I’m not on the extreme on this if a Greenpeace type thinks the same way I do. The climate has been changing since Day 1, the fact that people get hyper about it now is silly and laughable.
But caused by human activity?? Total BS.
I keep telling my fellow associates in the solar industry to be careful what you ask for with regard to GW, because if GW is really the problem (it isn’t) nuke is gonna be the answer… There’s absolutely nothing else that’s readily deployable on the needed scale to meet projected demands except nuke and coal. Wind will help some, solar’s still going to wallow at the noise level for at least another decade or two. Probably $6-8 gas and associated rises in the other fossil fuels will curtal demaind to hold us over until we really figure out what next.
I’d rather see more nuke deployed than more dirty coal. Coal plants keep mucking up the air out here in the desert to power the coasts… clear skies is one of the best resources we have to offer, and they’re trying to ruin that as fast as they can.
If people would get over the carbon sequestration nonsense and just finish the job of cleaning up all of the real pollution from the coal smokestacks then building more coal plants wouldn’t be such an issue. Right now everyone’s spooked about emitting more CO2 plant food into the air so nothing gets done, and we’ll be having regular electricity shortages soon.
Except for those on solar. Better order up some batteries with those solar panels though, the batteryless systems won’t do sh** for you when the utility’s down, unless you’re direct pumping water.
Coal fired power plants produce 60 times more radioactive waste than the same size nuclear (nukular) plant.
Yeah, Shoe, and they’re talking about a new coal plant near Salina. As a photography nut, I can tell you it’s getting harder and harder to find a clear day for landscape shots. And also talk of 2 nuke plants in this area, one by GR. Already planning on the U238 mill near town.
I’ve heard rumors about the GR nuke, not wishing a big monstrosity like that on anyone. Don’t know where they think they’re going to get enough water to cool the beast without all kinds of temperature impact on the river. When I was growing up in MD, I remember even back in the 60’s there was a big row about the Calvert Cliffs Nuke plant in So. MD. It was on the friggin’ Chesapeake Bay and there were still major environmental water temperature impacts affecting the fish populations. Can’t remember how it got resolved but they did build it.
The coal plant to be near Salina is actually over in Sigurd. It’s been a big fight for about 3 years now. Richfield/Sevier valley has major winter inversions most years, and the place won’t be livable if they go ahead. Wayne Co. is downwind and no one over here is happy about it. And all the power goes out of state as I understand it. Let the big cities pay extra to fully clean up the crap that comes out of the smokestacks, if they don’t want it near them. That’s the least they can do.
Whilst driving between Altenburg and Leipzig we went past an enormous Nuclear power facility. It was a reminder of how far behind the U.S. has fallen in this respect. The plant was in former eastern block territory so I don’t know which side got it built.
Agree 100%. The nuke company’s buying up water rights all over Emery County, the plan is to use the Green.
Utah’s going to moan bigtime when the tourism’s gone - they’re killing the golden goose, but the price of gas may get it before that anyway. Don’t know if you saw my post the other day, but a long-time real-estate person in Moab says sales are as slow as she’s seem them, slower than 10 years ago during the big slump.
We just drove up to SLC this afternoon for some work I have to do over the weekend. Hit Utah Co. about 4:30 PM and drove the opposite way through rush hour all the way up to Salt Lake. I was astounded at the LACK of RV’s and big rigs full of ATV’s heading out of town for So. Utah. Maybe saw a dozen on I-15 over the course of the entire drive when normally on a spring weekend we would have seen at least a few hundred.
Guess the high price of gas is starting to do its work. Or maybe the ATV’s were all HELOCed and now they’re getting repossessed. Hope I’m not offending any ATV lovers here but I wish they’d keep their noisy stinkin’ vehicles to themselves and not ruin the peace and quiet.
How about the fact that the a good chunk of Europe is in major housing bubble mode and the EU will have to start cranking out the dinero ala the Fed to keep it in check. If I was a big money player I’d short heck out the Euro.
The biggest bubble by far developed in Britain. They use the Pound, not Euro.
Ireland, Spain and the Netherlands are all in major housing bubble mode.
I foresee massive problems for the Euro in the next few years. I doubt it will help the dollar though.
What have you learned watching the housing debacle?
That people are even greedier and dumber than even I had imagined.
Bingo!
Thank you, txchick, for stating it!
My compliments, and I concur completely.
LOL!
Threadlette over, nuff said.
How about the differential in the Existing Home Sales Price figures for the West (Median -14.5% YOY) and the NorthEast (Median +4.6% YOY)?
If this continues, it might have implications for any national ‘helpout’ plan. In fact, it might even be affecting legislators’ perception of the problem (or lack thereof).
“How about the differential in the Existing Home Sales Price figures for the West (Median -14.5% YOY) and the NorthEast (Median +4.6% YOY)?”
This is what I am counting on as I pursue my dastardly scheme to cash out on the East Coast and move to the West Coast forever.
Signed,
Bicoastal No More
Here is the question — are mortgage servicers beginning to dump the REOs?
Until recently, the evidence was that at foreclosure auctions the bank and servicers would bid the mortgage to avoid booking the loss. Is that still true?
The management of loans within a conventional, mortgage-security pool is governed by the trust indenture. There are no standard terms with respect to workouts and REO management.
For banks, the standard is to bid the outstanding balance at the foreclosure auction. This is particularly true if there is PMI. I imagine that for loans in a security pool this is the standard also.
What happens after the servicer takes title for the pool varies widely. Because each pool can be unique there are probably many securities where the servicer is effectively forbidden from selling an REO at market value if such value is below a certain percentage of the loan balance.
I bet that when an REO is listed at near market value it’s bank-owned. When an REO is listed at wishing price it’s probably in a conventional (not FNMA/FHLMC/GNMA), securitized pool.
does anyone here post comments on Zillow’s websites on properties? I saw one for the first time this morning, someone remarked the house would lose another 20% by summer, then some realturd replied by snapping at him, telling him to “keep it to yourself.”
http://www.zillow.com/HomeQnA.htm?zpid=21642843
Txchick57 had an article in yesterdays bits that discussed the psychology of the housing bubble that was really good. I think understanding how the masses will react to the news they are hearing and the effects (intended and unintended) of how the bubble plays out would be a great topic.
I cannot find the link to which you refer…could you post it again?
Here’s a topic suggestion. I suspect a lot of people are going to be looking to buy a home when this correction is over. But how are we going to know when the bottom is in? What tools are people using to determine this? What criteria? Is it all about income? I’d like to see what other people are using to help them determine when the worst is over.
this is the watched pot syndrome. When everyone stops thinking/talking/worrying about real estate, then it’s over! I think we are still in early stages, because so many people are poinsed to pounce once the market drops.
A few days ago I could not be bothered to think about it, and then I took that as a good sign and got excited, so I blew it
Let’s talk about squatters
The societal implications of having this in your family history.
The financial implications of being one.
The moral implications.
The physical ones (no lawn mowing?).
The emotional implications.
The implications this will have on the shotgun industry.
The implications for neighbors of squatters.
The implications for pets of squatters.
What about squatters with nice paid-for vehicles? Would there be a backlash from others who have high mortgages?
Squatters in history.
Squatters in religion.
And…the long-term implications for civilization as we know it…
I have a friend who said his extended family used to pack into one apartment during the depression, get a free month of rent deal, and vamoose to a new apartment every month.
One day an uncle came home and the family had left without leaving (for obvious reasons) a forwarding address. He had to hang out outside the building until someone came to pick him up.
Cell phones might solve that problem. But ex-tenants might also be easier to hunt down.
This is a major problem in the Philippines. My wife has this quaint notion that you are protected if you have title to the land, and squatting only happens when title is unclear for some reason. I’ll give her the gist of that, but expect there are a lot of cases that are solved by gangs of hired thugs well before any government officials would have gotten enough bribes to get involved.
They also have several careers we could consider for use here. ;( (Some squatters also make their money by digging through trash dumps as manual recyclers.)
I heard that in the netherlands, if you leave a living unit empty for some amount of time (I don’t know how long) that anyone may legally squat there.
There are no squatters rights in the U.S. There is a process called adverse possesion.
Not only talk about squatters, let’s look at the history of squatters. Squatters is nothing new. I believe some parts of our country were settled by squatters.
My weekend topic this weekend is the same as last. What’s the half-life for the U.S. to slide into third world conditions, or alternatively will we slide 1/2 way down to meet them on the way up?
There was a threadlette on bits yesterday on this.
My guess, 20 years.
As long as we retain the Rule of Law I don’t believe the slide will occur.
Our country has been through many ordeals in its history.We’ll get through this one as well.
As long as we retain the Rule of Law I don’t believe the slide will occur.
How can something long lost be “retained”?
If you think we have lost this Rule of Law then I suggest you need to get out more.
Poor man - anyone who has delt with Condo associations feels his pain. I believe this is the first Housing bubble fatality.
See video link on upper right of page - “Man shot over condo fees”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352603,00.html#
Slimy Green Pools in Miami……….swim at your own risk
What next… Cut off the electric to the common areas and learn to walk up 40 flights of stairs to your precious kondoze in da skiiii!
How much longer will the denial stage of the bubble last before we move on to the bargaining phase? I only say this because sellers in San Diego have not yet shown many signs of coming down from the high ledge on which their asking prices are perched. Perhaps we will have to wait until the Fed feels a serious need to tighten the reigns on runaway inflation?
I can tell you - in the last USA Today poll, the majority of people said in five years home prices will be higher than now. This gives you an estimate of “how much longer”.
The Subprime Summer Vacation
Sky-high gas prices. Airline misery. A weak dollar. Fears of a recession. For many Americans, it all adds up to downsized travel plans this season.
By CANDACE JACKSON
April 26, 2008; Page W1