It’s Not A New Phenomenon
Readers suggested a topic around the growing number of foreclosures. “Let’s talk about squatters The societal implications of having this in your family history. The financial implications of being one. The moral implications. The physical ones (no lawn mowing?). The emotional implications. The implications for neighbors of squatters. What about squatters with nice paid-for vehicles? Would there be a backlash from others who have high mortgages?”
One posted, “I have a friend who said his extended family used to pack into one apartment during the depression, get a free month of rent deal, and vamoose to a new apartment every month.”
“One day an uncle came home and the family had left without leaving (for obvious reasons) a forwarding address. He had to hang out outside the building until someone came to pick him up. Cell phones might solve that problem.”
Another said, “This is a major problem in the Philippines. My wife has this quaint notion that you are protected if you have title to the land, and squatting only happens when title is unclear for some reason. I’ll give her the gist of that, but expect there are a lot of cases that are solved by gangs of hired thugs well before any government officials would have gotten enough bribes to get involved.”
“They also have several careers we could consider for use here. (Some squatters also make their money by digging through trash dumps as manual recyclers.)”
One noted, “I heard that in the Netherlands, if you leave a living unit empty for some amount of time (I don’t know how long) that anyone may legally squat there.”
A reply, “There are no squatters rights in the U.S. There is a process called adverse possession.”
Another expanded, “Not only talk about squatters, let’s look at the history of squatters. Squatters are nothing new. I believe some parts of our country were settled by squatters.”
The Associated Press. “Some Nevadans who fall behind on their mortgages and face foreclosure are trashing the homes as they move out, a legislative study panel was told.”
“Gail Burks of the Las Vegas-based Nevada Fair Housing Center said there’s an increase in southern Nevada borrowers who are giving up when faced with foreclosure and ‘are taking things out of the property, they’re putting cement down the plumbing.’”
“Assemblyman Marcus Conklin, the study subcommittee chairman, said the destruction to homes shows a loss of hope among people who figure there’s no way they can refinance their loans so that they can stay in their homes.”
“‘It’s bad behavior compounded by more bad behavior,’ said Assemblyman Tom Grady, a subcommittee member.”
“‘It’s not a new phenomenon,’ Conklin said after the hearing. ‘People are upset that they’re losing their homes and on their way out say, ‘Heck, burn it down.’”
“Michele Johnson of Las Vegas-based Consumer Credit Counseling Service, told the panel that 6.5 percent of about 574,000 home loans serviced in the state in the last quarter of 2007 were past due, up about 16 percent from the previous quarter. She added that foreclosure ’starts’ were up about 34 percent in the same period.”
“In the case of subprime loans, Johnson said that of about 101,000 serviced in the last quarter of 2007 nearly 17 percent were past due, and foreclosure starts were up about 43 percent.”
“Conklin said the statistics show how bad the crisis is in Nevada, which has the nation’s worst foreclosure rate. He added that when the reports come out on the January-March 2008 period ‘I suspect that the first quarter will be worse.’”
The Enquirer. “Many of us only know about the Great Depression through news accounts, history books or stories passed down from our older relatives. While we may understand that there was real hardship during that time, it may be tough for us to imagine the depth of the anger that many also felt.”
“Unless, of course, you think of what is happening currently. Right now, the level of anger at the economic downturn in this country is mimicking what many Americans experienced more than 70 years ago when homes, businesses and jobs were lost, says a business professor.”
“‘What we’re hearing is similar to the time of the Great Depression in that people feel ripped off; that the representatives of financial institutions and banks have done this to us. People are angry - they want to know where the government and the regulators were when all this was happening,’ says Dave Logan, a professor at the University of Southern California.”
“But unlike the dotcom bubble where Americans adopted a ‘we learned our lesson’ attitude, this housing bubble bust, coupled with rising prices and top executives earning billions while their companies lay off workers, has led to a ‘bone-chilling tone’ that has ‘people feeling like this is going to be long-lasting,’ Logan says.”
First??
Went to look at a house this week - realtor meets us outside and explains there are so many vacant houses in Madison and Dane County that squatters are starting to become a problem. Agents are now told not to enter listings alone.
Not sure how seriously to take this, though, as was also told by same agent that 5K off a house is a “great deal.”
Actually, there are tens of thousands of squatters right now. The banks are so overwhelmed, in many cases they aren’t putting people out even if they stop paying. What a turn of events!
I’m not disagreeing with you, Ben.
I was just surprised to hear this when local agents in the press all say my area is “special” and having strong sales (”2008 is looking to be our tenth best year on record since we started keeping track in 1991).
They also say the local economy is great but, as someone else posted last week, SZ is laying off about 300 people.
Well, I have to call BS on the MSM. Back in the day when I suggested that house prices might (gasp) fall, I was called a doom and gloomer. Now the media is falling over themselves to out-do dire predictions. And I see it as prices getting back to where they should be.
I don’t get these great depression comparisons. My parents grew up in the dust-bowl. They told me about families that would pick up the scraps of cotton stuck on the roadsides after the harvesters were through, to sell. Man, that’s tough. Walk around a mall today and tell me we are in a depression.
Point is; falling house prices and lenders losing their ass ain’t no depression, IMO.
It’s a slow burn…
I just read Frederick Lewis Allen’s “Since Yesterday” and it took awhile for the GD to get going, all sorts of false hopes dashed along the way.
The similarities between right now and back then, are eerie.
And those in-breeders that live for the mall will be the ones to bitch the most when their credit-induced cushy lifestyle disintegrates. That is what irks me. The “victims” are almost always just losers masquerading as innocent bystanders.
They all thought the boom would last forever. F-ck them!
Oh, I don’t go as far as to believe the MSM. I just have real problem (imagine that!) believing home values are normal, when home prices have gone up 80% in seven years, and income hasn’t. I became really suspicious a year ago, when the Wisconsin State Journal did a story indicating median home value in Dane County, in ten years, would be over $1 million.
Kind of like seeing the nar commercial stating home values almost double in value every ten years. Oh, that should be when looking at just the last ten years….silly rabbit.
I agree Ben….I have spoken at length with my mother (87) about the depression…No comparison what so ever…
I hear what you are saying Ben, but this thing is just getting started. Hard to say how bad it finally gets, but so far the bust seems to be finding its way into just about every nook and cranny. The economy is right now going through the “shock” stage. When the smoke clears and people realize what has really happened, I think we will see the next leg down.
We won’t know how bad this is really going to be for another 1-2 years.
The potential for a Great Depression is very high IMO.
I can’t help but wonder what our economy would look like if people actually began to live within their means. Take away all of the Home Equity Loans, Take away the credit cards, and get back to the point where you earn X, you spend Y and you save Z.
Not Earn X, Spend Y and Borrow Z to fill in the gaps.
I would imagine we would see a lot less Nail salons, Day Spas, Scrapbooking stores, Doggie Daycare shops, Candle making stores and other BS trivial little service businesses.
And Heaven forbid the Government would try to actually only spend what was brought in thru taxes. What an adjustment that would be for all of us.
In other words, it would look a lot like the 1950s and 1960s, except with more color and better hair-dos. Just taking away a few million gotcha-video-recording cell phones would be a huge improvement.
“I can’t help but wonder what our economy would look like if people actually began to live within their means.”
You are seeing it right now. It’s a collapse.
I don’t think we have seen much of a change in consumer’s behaviour yet. Sure there has been a slight pull back in spending other than gas, but not much of a pull back.
Wages have been stagnent since 2000, but inflation has been robust. Eventually compensation and consumption will need to get back in allignment, right?
But I don’t see how compensation will go up with global competition for jobs. So will consumption of foreign made products decline to get the two back in balance? Or will we just continue to borrow and stretch out the repayment terms to infinity?
Whatever happens, I think the adjustment will be a slow and painful journey.
I guess the real key will be if the increase in food and energy is temporary or permanent. If it is permanent, then people will need to increase their wages or cut back other expenditures, because supplementing their incomes thru credit isn’t a long term solution.
This is a great point Ben, depression this is not. In fact, as I have posted before, this doesn’t even feel like a recession to me. I am in Hawaii, and things have slowed very slightly, but 1000s of tourists are still here, shops are full restaurants are full, help wanted signs are all around. Same when I travel to San Antonio TX. I see the warning signs, but I don’t see the event yet.
I remember the early 90s recession which hit Hawaii much harder than it hit the US. I was coming out of high school then and there was really a palpable feeling of despondency in the air here. Very few good jobs, even working at Dominos pizza was actually competitive — if you didn’t want the job there were others who would be happy to take your place, and friends would always be asking you to get them jobs there. I talked about that feeling to a friend of my older brother (5 yrs older than me) and he told me that probably 80 percent of his friends left Hawaii looking for work in those years for Nevada, California, Washington etc. That’s a recession.
I agree the GD analogy is over played, since we have so many new financial instruments and governors in place since the 1930s, yet in some ways i can’t help but feel we’re more vulnerable. In a more agricultural, less service-oriented economy, individuals at least had the means to be resourceful. Today, without our gallon of gas, we’re like bugs on our backside, little legs flailing in the wind.
we’re like bugs on our backside, little legs flailing in the wind.
That stance is called the ‘Fb dying cockroch position of leverage”
“I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism… I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress.” - Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929
Excellent, Kid Clu.
—————–
FWIW, I’ve talked to a few relatives who lived through the GD, and each of them (separately) thinks/thought that we are heading for another depression. They said they were glad to be at the end of their lives because what they saw coming would be devastating.
IMHO, we are only at the beginning of a series of financial events which will probably spiral down for some time.
What is left after everyone has no more credit to spend (they ran out of cash a long, long time ago)? Jobs are less secure, wages stagnant/down and prices soaring — and not just for food and oil. Add to that Baby Boomers who are watching their “wealth” disappear as we speak — and little/no time left to make up for the losses.
I think we are in for rough times ahead, and imagine it might take many years to dig ourselves out. The U.S. will probably look a lot different by the time that happens.
I seriously hope I’m wrong.
People who stop making payments on their mortgages are not squatters. They have the legal right to remain in possession until evicted under due process.
As to keeping empty properties from being occupied by squatters, that’s easy. Just get legitimate owners or tenants living in them. And how do you do that - just drop the f#cking price!.
Granted that’s not going to work in places like inner-city Detroit, but it will work anywhere there’s a functional sales or rental market.
People who stop making payments on their mortgages are not squatters ??
Huh ?? Where is your rational for that ??
I guess you could say deliquent homeowners are no different than corporations declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying their bills - nobody put airlines or their leadership in prison for stealing airplanes when they declared bankruptcy en masse….
Stealing airplanes? How can they steal what they’ve only leased? Most commercial airliners are leased, not purchased. The engines are leased. Hell, even the TIRES are leased. I’m not kidding. Airlines lease their tires. Just about the only ownership of airliners anymore are the old fleets, like American with the mass of MD80s/90s which are so fuel inefficient.
Huh ?? Where is your rational for that ??
What part of “They have the legal right to remain in possession until evicted under due process” didn’t you understand?
Madison WI?
“But unlike the dotcom bubble where Americans adopted a ‘we learned our lesson’ attitude, this housing bubble bust, coupled with rising prices and top executives earning billions while their companies lay off workers, has led to a ‘bone-chilling tone’ that has ‘people feeling like this is going to be long-lasting,’ Logan says.”
The corp’se can terminate their entire workforce and not feel a tinge of pain about it, because it isn’t a living being and has no feelings, just a bad Supreme Court decision from 1886.
I’m expecting many more of the larger corp’s to move offshore if the current push in Congress to allow favorable tax treatment to foreign firms goes through.
I’m expecting some hardworking and smart entrepreneurs to make a lot of money touting their new ‘America First’ businesses: American made products, American business consultants, American owned retail.
Buy American is coming back.
I sincerely hope so, the American made products I own ranging from a 13 year old Kitchen Aid mixer to a 40 year old set of Paul Revere clad stainless pots and pans to my Grandfather’s gold Hamilton retirement watch and a 60 year old GE clock radio have performed wonderfully for me.
Exactly! Among developed country markets, the US will be among the hottest and best valued in 2009 and 2010.
Buy American is coming back ??
Maybe…But only with a expanding economy..
We have Buy American advertisements from Toyota on some of the local radio stations…. pretty odd hearing that, but I know it’s the truth. The alternator failed in my Honda Accord and when I looked at it there is a Made in America sticker on that particular part.
Buy American will come back as the US dollar continues it’s plunge, of course most Americans will have no real spending power beyond food and shelter.
Have you seen the new Ford ads? They state:
“Now our quality is as good as Toyota.”
How the US auto industry could remain asleep for 30 years is astounding.
Make that over 50 years.
Read “The Reckoning”, by David Halberstam, for details. And that was written quite a few years ago.
How many really learned any lessons from the dotbomb era? So many just moved right along to the next big thing - and in the process comodified hearth and home. The quest for easy money didn’t really miss a beat - heck, 2001-2 wasn’t even a recession at all…at least when compared to what’s still coming.
Yeah, here we go. Corpse, pain. Next you’ll be talking about debt concentration camps.
What I see is a bunch of federal reserve notes going to money heaven. In the case of the borrowers who put little down, they aren’t ‘losing every thing.’ They didn’t have much to start with.
And for those who refied themselves into a hole, I ask this; what if the borrowing was detached from a house? If we heard story after story of people who ran up credit cards and went bankrupt, where would all the sympathy and media hand wringing be?
People that put nothing down on their castles in the sky, had no skin in the game, but they’re all coming away from the experience with their sense of false entitlement intact.
put nothing down on their castles in the sky ??
And, 2nd home buyers with their respite in the mountains close to the snow so the sprogs (Chick term) can go snow boarding….
The sympathy, would be in the office of Barney Frank.
Squattafornia, the new 51st State
“Squatters are nothing new. I believe some parts of our country were settled by squatters.”
As a Realtor, I see evidence of squatters often in vacant house… sometimes they are setting up residence in garages (they get fewer disruptions there). And for angry homeowners, I recently sold a house where the homeowners vacated but turned on every faucet in the house before they left… water ran for weeks before it was discovered.
They wasted water?! Precious, lovely water? Bad! Those wretches, why didn’t they just set loose some pigs in there or wolverines or something?
I recently saw a scam where foreclosed houses are advertised on Craigslist for rent and actually cleaned up a little. The bank people or police then find the “tennants” illegally occupying the house after sending money to the would be landlord… Of course we have all heard about FB’s renting out thier foreclosing properties to unsuspecting tennants but I thought this was pretty bold! There are a lot of real victims in the housing bubble mess, but I am not sure how many of them are just people who over-borrowed to occupy a home they should never have been in to begin with.
I see so many of these fake landlord reports now, I don’t even bother posting them.
And it’s scary to realize that tenants have given all their financial information to these “landlords,” including their social security numbers.
“‘What we’re hearing is similar to the time of the Great Depression in that people feel ripped off; that the representatives of financial institutions and banks have done this to us. People are angry - they want to know where the government and the regulators were when all this was happening,’ says Dave Logan, a professor at the University of Southern California.”
But we do know where the government and regulators were. There were very comfortably in bed with each other. They still are. That’s one of the big reasons people are angry and some bitter.
Exactly. Even today, so many people refuse to put 2 and 2 together. There should be no confusion. The people to blame can be found at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. They set all this up.
Nonsense. Personal responsibility belongs to all the idiots who used toxic financing and are now in deep trouble.
And who is proposing a “5 year freeze on interest rates” and a “90 freeze on foreclosures”? Not those in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
A-freakin-men!
No bank can force you to take a loan. Neither can the President. That’s your own choice, now own up to it.
I’ve always thought of Vegas as a Scorched-Earth Policy, and so do the residents, it seems…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth
“Gail Burks of the Las Vegas-based Nevada Fair Housing Center said there’s an increase in southern Nevada borrowers who are giving up when faced with foreclosure and ‘are taking things out of the property, they’re putting cement down the plumbing.’”
cement down the plumbing ??
Think About the consequences of that if it happens to be in a multi story condo project…
Now you’ve done it. I bet thousands of condo FBs are headed to the hardware store right now.
A parting gift for that HOA you couldn’t stand.
Cementimental touch…
My story about multistory condos:
I owned a unit in a multistory in LA back in the early part of this century. I travel a lot for business for weeks and months at a time.
I was about a week into a 4 week assignment when my neighbors called saying there was water coming in from my unit’s shared walls. I sent a friend over to investigate - the kitchen sink had backed up and cascaded all over the floor.
Given that the building was a POS condo conversion from the early 70s, the drainage plumbing was a shared pipe from all 4 floors and I was floor #1. Somewhere beneath my unit the shared pipe clogged up, and I became the overflow for everyone else above me.
The HOA preferred plumber came in and fixed the problem. He claimed it was my kitchen sink that was backed up (his lie was so obvious even on the telephone). I protested to the HOA saying that I wasn’t even home. I got a second opinion from another plumber that confirmed my theory.
It was obvious that the HOA simply wanted to dodge liability for my damages. Luckily for me, I was just about to rip up the original flooring and install hardwood floors, so I did not press the issue. A few months later I sold up for a big profit and was overjoyed to get away from that building and HOA. F-em. Never again.
Ouch…
I know people who have relocated out of Las Wages and still won’t ‘give their home away.’ Ghad, the amount of hidden inventory is mind boggling there and everywhere. If prices are perceived to go up even 5%, the inventory will double.
Since all of the news is on the housing collapse and inflation pain… J6P must be about to break. I still don’t expect panic.
Oh… CNN is doing commentary on how the FED lowing rates and pumping money is causing the inflation… after about six weeks of that they’ll demand the FED to stop.
Inflation is at 7% to 12% per year by printing 15% more money per year… yep… J6P will catch on.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
People are angry - they want to know
I am angry too. At the stupidity of the people, lenders, criminals (MBs and Realtards), etc.
I am have anger at my former employer. I would like to go to the CEO’s office and give him a Bernake right smack on his desk (or face). i won’t, but you know what I mean. But I don’t owe them $800K and pouring cement down the Bernake depositories or any other actual damage to a facility.
OK, let me preface this comment by saying I’ve always been responsible. I put myself 100% through three college degrees and have always worked. I am debt-free and own two very nice vehicles, outright. I take good care of my pets and keep the property I’m renting clean and in good repair. I donate my time and money to charitable causes and love (mostly) my fellow humans.
Having said all that in my own defense, I’m thinking of becoming a squatter. I never dreamed the housing bubble would hit so close to home. As I’ve posted ad infinitum, my LL is declaring bankruptcy and is coming to get her stuff out of the house (it’s furnished).
I guess I feel a little guilty at the thought of living free in a bank-owned house. My LL lives in another state and has no intention of having someone take care of the yard, she’s effectively abandoning everything. So, if I stay here for free and take care of the yard while the house is going though foreclosure, isn’t that a commendable thing? Isn’t it???? Well??? Geez, then why do I feel like a piker…???
The only squatting I want to do is a temporary posture with crap wrap in hand at an open house.
Don’t. Best of luck to you!
But real-tards and delusional owners are so deserving of such a dastardly deed.
Sounds like a Win-Win to me. You get to live there rent free until you find another place. Your neighbors don’t have a jungle next door as you keep the place in respectable condition until it is sold.
Talk with real owner and offer to pay THEM the rent. Be it the bank or whomever.
So, if I stay here for free and take care of the yard while the house is going though foreclosure, isn’t that a commendable thing? Isn’t it???? Well??? Geez, then why do I feel like a piker…???
As long as you feed the squirrerls.
I have no idea about the mortgage or anything like that, but is it a place you’d want to own, that you’d maybe want to take over payments on?? Just curious.
Hey Lost,
I don’t think you’re a piker…you’re a victim! LOL Seriously, why not put your rent money in a separate account, in case the bank or lender comes calling. If they do, let them know your landlady informed you she’s abandoning the place, and you were waiting to be informed by the new owners what to do next. If and when you do hear from them, you can make an informed decision on your next move. But really, this is out of your hands. Enjoy your life and give my best to your dogs.
I think Spike speaks wisdom. I sure don’t think you’re a piker.
(Except you should spend the saved rent money on beer and not have it in a bank wastefully losing value to inflation. Waste is bad. Guilt is bad. Beer is good.*) Also, you have beautiful dinosaur bones lying around, right? Don’t let anything happen to them, or your pets, or your shoes. But really, what are the negative consequences for ANYONE here? If you’re not there, then an icky germy real ’squatter’ might move in and make a mess of the place, and that’s a serious negative for the lender and your neighbors.
Besides, you appear to have loads of panache, you could probably get away with it, easy.
I think you ought to seriously consider doing it. Then tell us all about it!
* ‘Waste is bad. Guilt is bad. Beer is good.’
Those are the guiding mottos of my life, by the way. There’s another one I have, I think it’s about frogs? Or is it regarding the necessity of having really good cook-pans? Ahhh, I can’t remember right now, so I’ll just have to rely on the first three until it comes to me.
Thanks, Spike - they’re out running around right now looking for dino bones with a friend…they’re always disappointed, though, spit them out when they find one…
Lost,
Why don’t you contact the bank and agree to keep up the house & keep the utilities on in exchange for “free rent”?
IMO, banks are desperate not to have empty houses on their books as they depreciate far faster than lived-in homes.
Best of luck!
Well, I’d own it if the price is right (very cheap) - it’s an old house, lots of problems.
I’m torn on this. On the one hand I would stay if for no other reason than to see what happens next. Plus no rent is ok, and since you are already living there it’s not like you broke in or anything. When the new owner comes along you talk with them then.
On the other hand, I would be concerned about coming home one day and finding my stuff gone, or my dog gone or whatever. So that’s the possible down side.
If you stay, at least remove any valuables from the house. Leave them at a safe place.
I don’t know Utah law, so here are a couple of things you should check out. First, after the foreclosure, how much notice does the bank have to give you. In some states it’s only three days, and you don’t want to have to move with that little notice. Second what are the exact notice requirements? These are things you should know before making a decision.
In addition, you don’t owe rent to the bank until after the foreclosure, as the bank doesn’t own the building until then. Only your now-absconding landlord could demand the rent, and it appears that s/he is no longer interested. (If, however, the landlord demands rent, you should renegotiate the amount to provide compensation for the lost amenities.) I see a lovely addition, along with your “economic stimulus” check to your savings account or to some long-desired acquisition.
Lost,
I think Peoninchief’s advice is good…check with Legal Aid so you know the drill in Utah. The thing about continuing to put your rent safely in a separate account, comes from my experience as a renter here in NYC…judges are looking for responsible people who continue to accumulate the monies necessary to pay the rent in full, even during a landlord-tenant dispute. Demonstrates good faith and responsible conduct. But knowing whether Utah requires that the foreclosure notice be served in person, or merely posted on the property, etc., would be helpful, as well as what rights you retain in the situation.
That said, I wouldn’t move. I’d get the info, stash the cash, continue to keep the place up, and see what happens next. And take notes…Frank Baum wrote the Wizard out of his experiences in the 30s…could be fodder here for your next children’s book. After all, lots of little kids will be going thru this experience with their parents…yours could feature the Foreclosed Dogs and Their Adventures.
LOL!!! great one, Spike!
Our neighbors were recently forced to vacate their foreclosed home in our upper-class neighborhood. They stripped the house bare. Took with them everything that could be unbolted and removed. Built-in appliances, faucets, light fixtures…
And I bet they left knowing deep in their hearts that they were the true victims in this event.
Okay, and then what do they do with all that stuff they stripped out of their house, drive it around in the back of their Armada? They could be the new Beverly Hillbillies!
Craigslist comes to mind….
Driving through Temecula recently, I passed through a half built out tract with lots of homes for sale, both from the builders and those who had bought there. The sales office at the front was looking neglected and a parking area had been taken over by 9 or so gang types who had adopted a nice, quiet place to hang out.
Welcome to the neighborhood.
“‘What we’re hearing is similar to the time of the Great Depression in that people feel ripped off; that the representatives of financial institutions and banks have done this to us. People are angry - they want to know where the government and the regulators were when all this was happening,’ says Dave Logan, a professor at the University of Southern California.”
What did they expect? First, people for the most part don’t give a shit. They are too busy learning who Paris Hilton is banging to give a shit about the country. Now they are pissed the whole system screwed them?
What did they expect?
And here’s the kicker. They are going to do it to you again. And again. And again.
Am I the only one that noticed the current admin was continuously putting lobbyists in regulatory positions? What did they expect?
Remember, it’s the Free Market or Bust. That’s the mantra the current admin lives by. Well, this is the Bust. The good news is the money has been looted, and a small percentage of the elite class are going to be just fine during this bust. No need to worry about them.
Bottom line: America has EXACTLY the system they deserve. No better. No worse.
Don’t leave us in suspense. Who is Paris Hilton banging?
I decided I am offended by the terms Realtard and Realtwhore.
The mentally challenged are usually that way through no fault of their own - birth, ilness, accident, etc.
A whore at least gives the cost up front before f#cking the client. As an example, $75K for a former governor of an unnamed stated.
Now, as for the used house salespeople, they didn’t have any such decency.
I think the reason why middle-class Americans are getting angry with the whole system works against them. I don’t mean to get all Lou Dobbs… but the reality is the middle-class is subjected to the vagaries of raw capitalism (outsourcing, foreclosures), while millionaires and billionaires are coddled and bailed out ad infinitum (Bear Stearns, Hedge Fund Billionaires paying capital gains on their earnings instead of income tax, etc…)
The middle class continue to support the status quo. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Like another poster explained so eloquently a couple days ago, the middle class endures this status quo hoping upon hope that they too will hit the lottery and become a 1 percenter. Ain’t gonna happen…
Here, here bluprint. My thoughts exactly.
The middle class has become lazy and soft. Politics, and economics are hard to understand. Many don’t vote, many others vote on easy to understand issues like gay marriage, flag burning, ect. At some point when economic reality smacks them in the face things will change.
Yeah, Thomas Friedman is married to a gazillionaire, so he can gush all he wants about the global economy. I’d love to see him trade places with a steel worker.
Bluprint,
OT, but do you have a url for upstate rentals? I’m guessing you’re around Ithaca or the Finger Lakes? Any suggestions of where to track possible rentals? Many thanks.
You talking to me?
I’m southern, by the grace of god.
1. Can you be arrested for staying somewhere when you are not paying? If I rent a house/apartment and get evicted and choose to squat, isn’t that like stealing?
2. Can’t he landlord sue for the lost rent?
#1 YES, if you piss off the sheriff while he tosses your stuff to the street, but even a deadbeat landlord AND YOU must have his day in court and LOSE before the sheriff is authorized to kick you out. YOU will be named and served as a John Doe so you have a right to defend yourself in court. Most people lose by default by not showing up on court day.
Watch Roger Moore”s Roger and Me the sheriff tossing people out on Christmas eve..
#2Yes…but then the landlord could be counter sued for the missed mortgage payments ….a wash here
People are angry - they want to know where the government and the regulators were when all this was happening.
Lol. They were right there doing what they are supposed to do dontcha know. Their job just isn’t what you think it is.
Naaaah, most people are spoiled… not angry..
In England in the 1970s and early 1980s there was no minimum wage and pay was truly awful. Being working poor in damp and cold in England is a decided POS. If you’re going to be at the bottom of the wage barrel, have more sense than I did and to do it somewhere sunny.
Many young people squatted, including me. Squatters I knew included a nurse, an accountant, a law student who was going through the mandatory unpaid several-year internship became a barrister, one of the people who was just starting the international development organization ActionAid, graduate students and a great number of musicians, writers and artists. And yes, you also had people who had work permit problems or no work permits.
Frankly, most of us couldn’t begin to pay commercial rents and then be able to do anything except work. What I was being paid as a beginning office worker meant that to have a bedsit room with a shared bath would have taken at least half my pay.
The squatters often took over groups of properties that had been abandoned or condemned and formed co-operatives, actually improving the buildings. I’m sure there were squatters who trashed their properties in other places, but the squatters I knew (in four different locations) improved the properties. In these cases, improvement didn’t mean putting in granite countertops, it meant making sure the plumbing work, clearing back gardens and patching and painting walls.
In my particular instance, even though we had no legal rights, I paid about 10% of my income (which was about $50–yes $50–a week then) into a housing co-operative that already had a few legal properties on its books. The co-operative went on in later years to take over the abandoned properties and provide legal housing for low income individuals. It was all outside the system in the beginning, but went on to provide a great service.
If you’re going to keep up the property and the bank is letting it go to seed, squatting will actually work in the bank’s favor, even though I’m sure they won’t see it that way. Sometimes people on low wages really don’t have many other good choices.
Interesting post. I agree, squatting can be in the bank’s best interests.
Comment from an ex-squatter.
In England in the 1970s and early 1980s there was no minimum wage and pay was truly awful. Being working poor in damp and cold in England is a decided POS. If you’re going to be at the bottom of the wage barrel, have more sense than I did and to do it somewhere sunny.
Many young people squatted, including me. Squatters I knew included a nurse, an accountant, a law student who was going through the mandatory unpaid several-year internship became a barrister, one of the people who was just starting the international development organization ActionAid, graduate students and a great number of musicians, writers and artists. And yes, you also had people who had work permit problems or no work permits.
Frankly, most of us couldn’t begin to pay commercial rents and then be able to do anything except work withotu saving a penny. What I was being paid as a beginning office worker meant that to have a bedsit room with a shared bath would have taken at least half my pay.
The squatters often took over groups of properties that had been abandoned or condemned and formed co-operatives, actually improving the buildings. I’m sure there were squatters who trashed their properties in other places, but the squatters I knew (in four different locations) improved the properties. In these cases, improvement didn’t mean putting in granite countertops, it meant making sure the plumbing work, clearing back gardens and patching and painting walls.
In my particular instance, even though we had no legal rights, I paid about 10% of my income (which was about $50–yes $50–a week then) into a housing co-operative that already had a few legal properties on its books. The co-operative went on in later years to take over the abandoned properties and provide legal housing for low income individuals. It was all outside the system in the beginning, but went on to provide a great service.
If you’re going to keep up the property and the bank is letting it go to seed, squatting will actually work in the bank’s favor, even though I’m sure they won’t see it that way. Sometimes people on low wages really don’t have many other good choices.
Outside the system?
Co-operatives?
Sounds @ lot like @narchism!
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In our capitalistic system what is not sold must be destroyed or withheld to keep prices up. If the banks let squatters live for free soon everyone would squat.
in the Netherlands all the housing corporations regulary demolish large numbers of cheap rental homes (nothing wrong with these homes!!) to keep prices up. People can’t pay for the far more expensive properties that they build instead (usually luxury villas for the rich), but when the occupants are on social security the government will pay the difference somehow - so it’s a sure way for the housing corporations to boost their profits.
The people to blame can be found at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. They set all this up.
I half agree with this comment. The statement left out the other half responsible. The 535 nimrods that sit on Capitol Hill (don’t know the address) bear as much responsibility as Uncle Scrub, who is the king nimrod.
“I heard that in the Netherlands, if you leave a living unit empty for some amount of time (I don’t know how long) that anyone may legally squat there.”
Yes, this is true in general for properties that have been left empty for more than a year by developers; it certainly does not apply to all the small speculators who own several empty homes (officially any property with a bed and a chair is considered occupied, even if nobody lives there). There are many exceptions to the rule and local authorities often don’t understand the law. Last year a squatter was arrested in my town because, together with a friend, he occupied a nearly demolished home. The home had been empty for probably two year; took the police two days to realise that their arrest was illegal. This was the first squatting attempt in the area in many years, despite the fact that empty homes are everywhere.
Squatting was popular in the seventies/eighties in the Netherlands, when due to speculation (and high youth unemployment) it was one of the few options for young people to get a home. Things got out of hand and politicians where afraid that the government would collapse because of these problems. At that time tanks were running through the streets of Amsterdam to keep the situation under control. The squatting law was one of the politicians concessions.
The Dutch government has always been heavily intertwined with the buildling/RE mob, and property tycoons are always above the law. Pressure is building again, squatting is getting more popular and government is trying to impose a total ban on squatting and sometimes sends in the marines to evict squatters. Also developers are getting around the problem by hiring anti-squat guards that live in the building for a low fee but have to leave at short notice when the ‘developer’ (usually just a speculator) sells the building. And of course the small developers just hire the local mob to get illegal occupants out of their properties.