Bits Bucket And Craigslist Finds For May 13, 2008
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‘May 13 (Bloomberg) — Toll Brothers Inc., the largest U.S. luxury homebuilder, reported the eighth consecutive quarterly decline in revenue as demand for new homes tumbled.’
‘The average price of Toll’s gross signed contracts in the fiscal first quarter fell 13 percent to $634,000 from $730,000 a year earlier. The median price of a new home in the U.S. in March was $227,600.’
Who wants to bet me that their stock will rise on this news?
might hop around a little but i think it’ll eventually drop to around $5 .. the 2002 price.. before it bottoms.
We are witnessing some of that “blood in the streets” investors have been waiting for.. Toll, MBIA, CITI and a few others.
My only problem with ’snapping’ some of this up is these stocks, like housing, will just sit there and do nothing for 5 years or so..
I disagree.
Once the homebuilders have purged themselves of expensive land and expensive houses (this has largely happened), and the market is ready to absorb new homes again (starting in the next 6 months, ramping up over 2 years), homebuilders will begin to build inexpensive houses on cheap land, and will turn a profit again.
Their stocks won’t get to their 2007 highs any time soon, but they will come off the bottom.
Spoken tongue-in-cheek I presume?
If not - what’s the color of the sky in your world? Is it pretty?
The only mass market that will have long term legs will be the less than $150K market close to employment or rail or other public transit. The other market will be mid to higher-end tear down and/or remodel in 1890s - 1940s/50s neighborhoods close in town. The rest is not coming back in 2 years….some of it will never come back and be abandoned like those old 1880s mining towns in the West (USA).
Their stock price has appeared to enjoy a plunge protection target price of $24/share since the onset of the misnamed credit crunch last August. To clarify, despite noisy ups and downs, the share price appears to always revert to $24, with no fundamental justification (particularly given the evaporation of McLuxury home demand).
FWIW - Toll seems to have been one of the more “conservative” (relatively speaking) builders. While their revenue has plunged like the rest - they’ve taken a *lot* less losses than most home builders - 10’s of millions vs. 100’s of millions. They’ll be one that emerges on the other side I think, unlike others like DHI, PHM, BZR etc. that will be going bankrupt.
I guess the picture depends heavily on how large an inventory of McLuxury homes and lots Toll is sitting on in this falling knife market. It might be hard to assess this, given the modern-day reality of shell-game accounting.
Yes this is true - I’m guessing it’s a lot harder to write down spec homes than land - so maybe they’re just delaying the pain more than the others.
FWIW - Toll doesn’t just build McMansions - in fact they’ve been sitting on a lot of empty very-average townhouses right around the corner from me for about 3 years.
“…in fact they’ve been sitting on a lot of empty very-average townhouses right around the corner from me for about 3 years…”
Don’t vacant homes have a tendency to gradually crumble to the ground if they sit empty for many years in a stretch?
I haven’t looked at them up close actually - you’ve got my curiosity piqued though. We just moved here two years ago, so didn’t actually see them get built, however a friend in that neighborhood says they were built about 3 years ago. There are still Toll banners up and being maintained (new banners occasionally), so I know they aren’t resales.
There are a plethora of newly built vacant homes in North San Diego County, which I am guessing are owned by builders and/or lenders who have not moved beyond the denial stage of the housing bubble stages of grief. I can wait forever or never buy, but if they eventually come to their senses, I may have a look at some of these. My biggest worry is that they may no longer be structural sound by the time the current owners get real with their asking prices.
LOL! There’s a cooperative Toll Brothers/KB Home development up the street from me. Very weedy and overgrown in spots. The Toll Brothers homes were being advertised from $500,000 to $800,000. Now, instead, KB is advertising homes “from the $100,000’s”. How’d you like to have been one of those Toll buyers and have to see that KB sign these days? ROTFLMAO!
Awesome…..you’re in the same area as I, and there is no market for $500,000 + homes.
Toll House Cookie Crumbles
Pun pile on!
Toll House Cookie Cutter Houses crumble right along with the stock. No blue [chocolate] chips here!
Ya just gotta see this place, Moman. It’s called Harbor Isles and there’s no harbor and no isles in that development. It is, however, across Rte. 41 from Mira Bay, which is a faux waterfront development on unstable land on Tampa Bay. Now, they DO sell homes for half a mil and up in Mira Bay, but Harbor Isles has no waterfront access, unless you want to race model sailboats in the retention/sewage pond.
Here in the hudson valley, toll has a bunch of developments they a ton of 500K+ houses and there still building, the medium income in the area is like 50k tops, and your looking at 2hr commute each way to NYC to make the kinda money you need to buy these things, there are already a few in foreclosure, I just can’t believe there still building more…
Palmetto - flew in from MIA yesterday and we flew right over those subdivisions. I was thinking what a crap hole, there is nothing there except some homes on the water and a lot of homes surrounding retention ponds with a fountain in the middle. Must be a great view living right beside one of the worst polluting, coal fired power plants in the country.
Is that the same area?
Let me guess: the houses start at 10x median household income and go up from there. Until that lunacy ends, there will be no rebound in housing.
“…as demand for new homes tumbled.”
Financial journalists are mistaking the vaporization of subprime-fueled specuvestor demand for a decline in fundamental demand, which has not really dropped, but is hiding beneath a layer of unaffordable asking prices. Everyone needs a place to live, but not everyone needs an overpriced McLuxury home to live in.
decline in fundamental demand
Can you explain this? I thought the housing bubble busted when we finally ran out of willing buyers in mid 2006 or so. When the 2-year I/O grace periods ran out on FB’s with no new minions to fill in the bottom row of the pyramid scheme, FB’s had to drop prices, upside downs, a few foreclosures, which rippled to the Wall Street bondholders who got scared in August 2007, etc, and we all know the rest.
Or, do you mean fundamental demand for a McTyvek overachiever center-hall McColonial with stick-on McEngineered bricks and an attitude as genuine as the multiple afterthought McOrientedStrandBoard stick-on roof “gables?” I’m not sure there was EVER any fundamental demand for those.
Maybe those Wall-street guys didn’t earn those bonu$e$, but the marketers who convinced FB’s that they “deserve” a McMansion sure did.
“There’s a sucker born every minute”
George Hull
You can always sort of tell when a house was bought with ill-gotten gains…
It can’t happen here WE ARE DIFFERENT
LONDON, May 13 (Reuters) - Two British builders warned investors their results are being hit by a sharp slowdown in the housing sector this spring, as an industry suvey on Tuesday reported the most widespread downturn in at least 30 years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSL1341356920080513
Well, as on of my UK idiot friends just told me, “All this means is that they will build fewer houses, which will mean more of a housing shortage and drive prices up.” So prices are set to go up?!?!
Seriously, there seem to be people who actually believe this. He for one believes it so much that his entire savings and retirement funds are all invested in (mortgaged) UK property.
I bestow the Royal Order Of The Wanker, upon your friend in the UK.
Thank you! I shall pass it on to him! (I love it!)
It is likely that this ROotW award is all that he will have left when he comes to retire, so he’d best hang on to it.
Root W(ord)
The Royal Order of the Wanker … with two Nut Clusters?
NoVa - I had much the same conversation last week with friends, when I was back in Blighty for a family wedding.
One friend, whose intelligence and financial acumen I sort of take for granted, was telling me how there was absolutely a shortage of housing in Southeast London. This, while we were walking through the huge new housing development that has sprung up, between his house and Lewisham train station. Most of which were unoccupied….
I tried to get him to see the difference between housing and affordable housing, but he wasn’t having any of it.
Then again, despite living in Los Angeles, I was getting sticker shock about some of the prices - 1.2 million pounds for an unconverted 7-bed Edwardian villa, on a busy road next to the train station….250 thousand pounds for a top-floor flat in a 1930’s semi-detached…
And we’re not talking Park Lane or Kensington here - just a blah section of southeast London, equidistant from both Waterloo (West End access) and the Millenium Dome (future 2012 Olympic site), with no tube line nearby.
So what does a run of the mill while collar Brit get by? By commuting from 50-100 miles away?
Yes, with a long commute. Quite a few of my friends have 20-30 miles each direction; a couple of them have 50 miles or more! Yes, petrol prices kill ‘em (one bloke takes a long-distance bus instead), but it was the only way for them get the house they wanted.
I’m not sure they anticipated today’s petrol cost, though, when they did a pre-purchase comparison of living near vs far-from London. (Living *in* London was not an option for most of my co-workers, not unless they wanted at most a two-room flat.) Some of the wiser and more mobile ones, I might add, are now working with me in the DC Metro area, where prices are actually a lot better in relation to salaries and gasoline is cheap.
Some of the wiser and more mobile ones, I might add, are now working with me in the DC Metro area, where prices are actually a lot better in relation to salaries and gasoline is cheap.
As we all know, DC / NoVa / MD real estate prices are no great shakes, so that really puts the London market in perspective.
They’re selling crappy flats in Lambeth (!!!) for a million pounds and up. Anyone stupid enough to buy them deserves to live in Lambeth.
Lambeth = Sheepeth?
Good one. Lambeth is dreadful, and everyone USED to know it. Estate agents could make some people think living in a sewer was upscale.
Hi all… I haven’t posted in a while…there’s almost too much housing/credit bubble news out there.
I hung out with a friend who lives in England last week. She’s selling her apartment and buying a house. Both are in contract. Which is making her nervous — she needs the sale on the flat to go through so that she and her husband can go through on the house. She also noted that buy-to-let loans are getting extremely hard to come by (i.e., the credit crunch is hitting England).
If that’s all she’s got in the chain, just her flat and the house she’s buying, then she should count her blessings. That property chain thing in the UK is a real pain for everyone involved! One weak (that is, broken/delayed) link in a long chain causes everyone grief.
I’d say good luck to her, but if I were in her shoes I’d be selling the flat and renting till this whole thing gets back to normal. Hopefully she can (1) pay the new mortgage easily and indefinitely, and (2) not need to move for ten more years. Because the way things are going, she might well be stuck with that new place for a decade, whether she likes it or not, like some of my older friends there were in the early 1990’s.
I went through that London 1990s crunch and if this is similar we’ve got 25-40% price drops to come in the London market.
Many think this might actually be WORSE. If I owned London RE right now, even if I lived in it, you can bet I’d be selling while the selling is good. Oh wait, it’s NOT good! But at least selling is possible. So far.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=az3eSerjPuDA&refer=home
Libor Poised for Shake-Up as Credibility Is Doubted (Update1)
By Ben Livesey and Gavin Finch
May 13 (Bloomberg) — The benchmark interest rate for $62 trillion of credit derivatives and mortgages for 6 million U.S. homeowners faces its biggest shakeup in a decade as lawmakers question if banks are understating borrowing costs.
For the first time since 1998, the British Bankers’ Association is considering changing the way it sets the London interbank offered rate, according to Chief Executive Officer Angela Knight, who is scheduled to appear before a parliamentary committee in London today. “We’ve put Libor under review,” Knight said in an interview. While she declined to discuss specifics, the BBA will announce changes May 30, she said.
The BBA, an unregulated London-based trade group, sets Libor by polling 16 banks each day on the rates they pay for loans in dollars, British pounds, euros and eight other currencies. The association is under pressure to show the rates are reliable following complaints by investors that financial institutions weren’t telling the truth after the collapse of subprime mortgages nine months ago contaminated credit markets and drove up borrowing costs.
“The benchmark interest rate for $62 trillion of credit derivatives and mortages for 6 million U.S. homeowners faces its biggest shakeup in a decade …”
“…$62 trillion of credit derivatives …”
“…$62 trillion …”
Welcome to the era of Interesting Times.
A little perspective concerning $62 trillion:
A one percent adjustment on $62 trillion equals $620 billion.
One basis point adjustment equals $6.2 billion.
That’s a lot of money, folks.
Um, shouldn’t raising this rate provide more profit to the lenders of ARMs? (Except for any increased costs due to increased defaults.)
62 trillion miles will get you to any one of a number of star systems! But it will take you 10 years to do it at 186,000 miles / second.
“The association is under pressure to show the rates are reliable following complaints by investors that financial institutions weren’t telling the truth”…
Oh come on, does anyone seriously believe that these august institutions would lie? I am sorry not tell the truth, there were merely some over sights.
The association will report what they are told to report. There is no chance that some small firm is going to blow the whistle on the banking industry.
For anyone not familiar with John Perkins book “confessions of an economic hitman”, here is a 10 min overview of how the corporate world interfaces with the US gov’t to exert control over 3rd world countries. Yeah, we’re the good guys.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/317.html
Nice link Auger. It was only yesterday that a few here were saying they’d “honor” their commitments to banks unlike those awful house debtors who walk away. lmao. Something about “ethics” and preserving their good name. And the banks? They’re looking out for your best interests by borrowing at 3 and lending at 25….. they’re such honorable organizations. /sarcasm off
And I still would - I just don’t think ya get the point… Banks are businesses like any other business, they are trying to make money. Whatever happened to “Caveat Emptor”?
It seems too many won’t accept personnal responsibility for their actions and that it’s always “someone elses fault”.
Don’t like the terms of what you agreed too? Just default, try to change them midstream, or whine incessantly about how “unfair” it all is. The world is inherently an unfair place. Always has been.
“And that’s the way it is”
Whatever happened to “Caveat Emptor”?
And what ever happened to “good faith?”
Analogy: What if a patient went to a doctor with a knee sprain which could be solved by a few Tylenol, but the doctor instead ordered an expensive MRI for the sole purpose of getting a kickback from the MRI lab? Admittedly, the patient should know enough to realize he has a knee sprain and not, say, a burst appendix, but how far does he have to go? Should the patient be required to get a medical degree just to make sure the doctor is being honest?
Ditto for these mortgage crooks. Sure, an FB should know an ARM from a fixed, but how many months does he have to spend months learning about high finance just to be able to understand all this nonsense about derivatives and REO’s? Where do you draw the line?
Well, as for me, if I don’t understand the legalese of what I’m handed, I don’t spend months researching, I go see Ken the lawyer and spend $80 to have him translate it. For something as important as a home mortgage this is basic stuff. I always approach any financial transaction with the attitude that these people are there to pry as much money as possible from me and are not to be trusted - hence “Caveat Emptor” - I don’t believe in “Good Faith” because it doesn’t exist in the business world (of which I am part of ) for the most part anymore.
However, I’m digressing, my point about honoring committments was not about just paying your bills to thieving banks, it was about honoring your committments in . Whether they are financial, personal, or spiritural. Everyone has their own code of honor. This is part of mine.
Oxide, I don’t believe most cases of people “getting into trouble” were due to some sort obscure portion of a contract that no one ever heard. Most people are guilty of a few very simple things:
-Taking an ARM when EVERYONE knew that rates were at historical lows.
-Taking a mortgage payment you can’t possibly make long-term, with the hope that the house will increase in value fast enough to make a tax-free buck in two years.
-Heloc’ing or mortgaging the house (shelter, one of the basic human needs) in exchange for granite counter tops and flat screen tv’s.
Some people may have been hoodwinked at the last minute by loan term changes or been victims of fraud, but that’s not the general case. Mostly people just made really bad decisions that were easy to see coming if they had chosen to just raise their head.
I kind of agree with both JWhite and Exeter. If I took out a loan, I should make a great effort to repay it. However, if there were no recourse, I’d happily walk away from debts. What is not acceptable is people who live a lifestyle well above their natural ability and expect the rest of us to subsidize it.
The banks have made a lot of money off me in credit card interest. that’s not their fault though, it’s MINE for agreeing to pay for it.
Oh I get the point loud and clear. Some are dumb enough to be duped into the lie that banks and complicated contracts are honorable and have the best interests of the signatories.
And some aren’t.
In a nutshell -”yes”
Been that way since the beginning of time. I believe the “Darwin Awards” are aimed at a certain sector of that population.
“Everyone has their own code of honor. This is part of mine.”
I agree w/you JWhite and also try to stick to my code of honor but I do have to say that increasingly I’ve become aware of how my own code is used against me. In fact, I’d say that certain parties are betting on it.
Honor is meaningless when the other party is a corporation. Corporations are machines that are incapable - literally - of honor. For management to put honor above profit would be a breach of fiduciary duty. “It’s not personal. It’s business.” You owe a corporation no more loyalty and honor than you owe your microwave oven.
Old adage; “When you lie down with dogs [my favorite people, but I didn't write it] you get fleas”.
I’ve heard this Perkins fellow on a radio interview. Sounded interesting, but I just wonder if he isn’t a sort of James Frey type character. I mean, if he was what he says he was, how come he hasn’t caught a bullet yet himself?
If he’s the guy I remember, he probably went public just to protect himself. It’s amazing the MSM gets away with ignoring this stuff.
And now, they will be returning the favor. Karma is a bitch.
Aren’t western central banks working hard behind the scenes to ensure the Libor’s credibility remains in doubt?
“Creative urban design” the guy calls it………just add some homeless types peeing on the sidewalk, and you’re all set:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080513/BUSINESS04/805130314
stupid, stupid, stupid
Someone please contribute a “discarded” shipping container to lock this idiot in.
Containers are made of high quality steel and can be easily recycled when their time is up. There is nothing green about this idea - it makes zero environmental sense because the steel is better recycled into useful stuff (like maybe rebar for use in a real house), and this is going to be a bitch to cool in the summer and heat in the winter.
They’re already living in these in such third-world places as London, England.
There is an overwhelming supply of containers in the US (because we don’t export to China).
If you don’t like the thermo qualities of the containers, you can always buy the cardboard model.
Sheesh.
actually there’s a severe shortage of containers in many areas.. moving empty containers to where they are needed is a big problem.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121028483313278907.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
I can see it now,
News at 6:00….family living in container accidentally shipped to Indonesia…
“actually there’s a severe shortage of containers in many areas.. moving empty containers to where they are needed is a big problem”
not where i live. In city of long beach port areas there are tons of them piling up including a hugh stack about a quarter mile from me . If any areas of US needs them what is the problem using big rigs . They are after all designed to be hooked up to 18 wheelers.
I would certainly welcome any use of them for afordable housing, field offices, emergency housing, green housing,ext. and would gladly like to see them cleared out of LA.LB port areas.
The situation is now contained.
Here’s what to do with containers.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/report_many_u_s_parents
My SIL lived in one while serving in Iraq. The MRE version of a house.
Actually my wife and I were thinking of building a house out of these intermodal shipping containers. Something along the line of this G.A.D. project:
http://www.mmw.no/projects/search/gad
Others have done cottages and houses using containers. Most recently there was a project in Redondo Beach, CA.
http://www.demariadesign.com/
I’m a fan of containers alright.
For smaller rooms like bathrooms and closets, use discarded dumpsters. And for garbage cans use discarded garbage cans.
This architect stuff is a piece of cake.
“This architect stuff is a piece of cake.”
And so is “building your own house”….. until it comes time to actually build it…. then you hire a GC.
“And so is “building your own house”….. until it comes time to actually build it…. then you hire a GC. ;)”
I’m a GC and have been in this industry all my life. Homeowners read up on the ‘net and suddenly know more than I do. It’s starting to drive me nuts. I’m about to call it quits
An acquaintance threatened to charge one price if he was allowed to just get on with his work, a higher price if the homewoner was going to watch, a higher price still if they were going to talk to him, and the highest price of all if the homeowner was going to “help” him.
“and the highest price of all if the homeowner was going to “help” him”
ROTFL I don’t tell my HOs that. I just adjust the pricing on extras to account for the amount of “nosing” they do. I had a HO that wanted to supply plumbing fixtures for 9 bathrooms. He delayed his move in date by about 6-7 months with that mess.
Gosh, I guess the stories of all the activist home building friends I’ve heard over the years are exagerations. There is a reason why people paying the bills visit jobsites.
I imagine it DOES often cost more if people are made to somehow do what they agreed to do in the first place. But in a case like that, it isn’t the home buyer who should be paying.
Yeah, before his present occupation, my husband was on the construction crew that used to get invited in (and paid quite well) to clean up the mess after other building crews’ screw ups.
He was pretty busy. LOL
And after the houses we’ve been in and the nasty short cuts he’s found, you’d better believe he’s going to be hovering (or better yet GCing) when it’s his home. LOL
And after the houses we’ve been in and the nasty short cuts he’s found, you’d better believe he’s going to be hovering (or better yet GCing) when it’s his home. LOL
OK But my point is do your D.D. first. CaLL local building and zoning office and ask for 2 or 3 of the best GCs they inspect houses of, because they have seen it all. The inspectors of the 2 counties where I work love our houses and tell us that to our face and have recommended us to prospective HOs. Tour some of the GC’s other homes and talk to those HOs. Then sleep soundly at night.
Actually, there’s a company in St. Pete that’s been using these containers to build hurricane-proof homes. By the time they’re done, the houses don’t even look like containers and can stand up to vicious windstorms. Laugh all you want, but I’m intrigued by the idea. The only reservation I have about it is how do they do the insulation and ventilation so you’re not baking in a hotbox in the Florida heat.
However, unlike in the story, they’re only doing free-standing houses and not condos. That’s a new one on me.
i saw a TV episode about a year ago (this old house?) using these containers as modular rooms.. big crane lifts them into place, weld them up, cut door and window openings etc. They did mention hurricanes… mighta been in florida.
Hmmm… when I lived in Germany, that’s how the Portuguese labourers lived — in 20-foot shipping containers with holes cut to install doors and windows. Bunk beds inside with a single bare bulb for light. Lovely. But it worked. Can’t say much about the temperature control in there, though.
Every time I thought my job sucked, I’d just have to go see those guys out there pouring concrete in the cold rain, with a container to go home to after their shift, and it made me realise that my life was pretty darned comfy.
There is a movement to build shipping container homes around the world that has been present for at least a decade, and the results can be quite practical, cheap and extremely stable in seismic or hurricane prone areas (for instance in a place like China and Myanmar today).
This is the first time I’ve seen anything that did not propose significant cosmetic changes though. I agree that it looks pretty ugly and energy inefficient.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat though…Here’s a site where shipping containers were put to an interesting use as housing in the US: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?o=2&f=/g/a/2006/06/16/carollloyd.DTL
This feedback isn’t reasonable, and just makes people look uninformed. Shipping containers may be desirable because when no longer deployed for their primary use they represent very cheap and flexible structures. It takes far less energy to recycle them for construction than for other uses, especially as raw metal. There are projects to make use of them in various on all continents including Antarctica, and a number of rich and famous people have had notable dwellings made out of them. All this laughing about homeless and dumpsters is just silly. Even buildings of broadly acknowledged architectural merit have tended to fester in Detroit, so being creative in order to optimize price performance makes even more sense in that setting.
Would you mind terribly if I agreed with you on this issue? See my post above yours. These container homes can actually weather a vicious hurricane in Florida.
well, i dont agree or disagree.. i just dont know..
Things like iron toxicity (or chromium or whatever is in the steel) from living for years in an iron box comes to mind.. and you gotta expect that a container may have been anywhere and contained virtually anything during it’s useful life.. the things it may have contained towards the end of it’s life probably leaned toward the vile side..
Toxicity and other unintended consequences are things to consider, joey. I was impressed by the final product that I saw featured on a local show and liked the idea of hurricane resistance. But it is important to consider the possible down side.
You’ve reminded me of an amusing medical factoid: the primary source of iron in the typical American bloodstream isn’t spinach or liver, but frying pans!
And there was an increased incidence of iron deficiency after WWII, when aluminum and enameled cookware became more prevalent.
The cast-iron pan is your friend.
I’m out of luck on both counts.
I am a batchelor and virtually 100% microwave dependent.
‘The cast-iron pan is your friend.’
I love my cast iron pan. I mean, really truly love, like I would marry it if it asked me, is how much I love it.
I like the analogy that somebody else came up with: it’s like making furniture out of used 55 gallon oil drums. Yes, you can do it, but by the time you’re done you’ve spent more effort trying to “recycle” than you would have building from scratch. Keep in mind, these thing are strong, but their ungalvanized steel construction ISN’T designed to last forever. Their 8′ width is very limiting (unless you’re comparing them to a hovel) By the time that you’ve added insulation, cut holes in them for windows, added plumbing etc, you’ve eliminated most of the “savings” generated by using the shipping container. In the third world, where 8′x40′ of dry living space would be a godsend for many, this makes alot of sense. In the west, not so much. Might be a market for a vacation cabin that you could drop off without much site preparation, but a used old RV or trailer probably makes more sense.
I heard about a guy who made his real estate fortune selling people used trashtrucks, as refurbished condos, with an elevator.
LOL! That reminds me of an episode of the “Red Green Show” where Red makes a girls bedroom set out of old tires.
You can get the “Red Green Show” in the US? It’s a low budget production from Hamilton Ontario that appears on a handfull of Canadian networks. It certainly deserves broad distribution (great writing).
Probably just in the border cities, but I could be wrong.
I watched it regularly in Colorado.
“Red Green Show” was on PBS when I lived in Kansas. My dad still watches it.
you said “It takes far less energy to recycle them for construction than for other uses, especially as raw metal.”
that is a bogus argument, the same one that is implied in the original article.
The fact is that it is far more efficient to produce steel from recycled containers than from iron ore. Given that the world is still making steel from iron ore, the better route would be to recycle these containers piling up. That is green. If tomorrow the world stopped making steel out of iron ore, then you may have an argument that these boxes are better used for homes, or flower pots or boat anchors or whatever.
I know a guy who converted a shipping container into a very nice mobile home. He worked on aid projects in Africa, and could have his “home” hauled to whereever the next problem hit. When he first moved to Africa, this same shipping container was used to ship all of his stuff from Germany.
The project will offer condominium units measuring 960 to 1,920 square feet. Prices will range from about $100,000 to around $190,000.
Er, can’t you buy a livable house in that area for about 10K? Look at the map.
You can buy a 3BD 2BA house in the ‘burbs on a nice quiet street for that.
The Luna County Sheriff’s office in Deming, NM is currently using shipping containers they’ve modified into overflow jail space. Uninsulated and cooled with evaporative cooling these things are probably an excellent wet sauna.
When I lived in Ft. Liquordale, I had a house with an aluminum roof over the back porch. If I sat out there in the middle of the summer, it felt like my brains were baking.
I bicycle weekly past a storage rental yard where all the storage units are made from old containers. They cut doors into the sides and divide them up into 2-4 rental units. No electricity or water required, so it seems like a good usage for dead storage.
For you non-Californians: we have LOTS of storage rental yards because: a) we have no basements, b) no rain means low roof pitch means no attic space, and c) we’re all idiots and buy all sorts of junk we then pay to store!
Are you local to the Deming area? There are now two sheriff’s buildings that are ISO: one in Columbus, NM.
The market is still looking for stupid money to absorb.
Actually, these containers can be “recycled” into some very attractive housing. There’s a college dorm in the Netherlands that’s made out of shipping containers. Pretty cool looking place, and the students like living there.
A Wish List For Fixing Wall Street…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/business/13sorkin.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin
those wealthy boomers:
NEW YORK - The economic downturn is hitting roughly one in 10 middle-aged and older Americans especially hard, compelling them to borrow money for everyday living expenses and to seek help from family, friends or charities, according to a survey released Tuesday by the AARP.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-economy-survey,0,5378818.story
Gee wizzzzzz….. How can this happen. Troll, Geezer and RealTards and those who believe in everything Realtard told us the the boomers are coming. And that they’re all millionares.
“build it and they will come”
It’s the boomers who have spent their asses to bankruptcy and now expect us younger people to prop them up by buying their overpriced houses and used SUVs while they move on to the next fad. No thanks.
Forced group dieting?
AARP = total commies
add 15% to SS taxes and they might be happy
” I’m old ,you owe me !”
No need to add 15%. Remove the 90k cap, means test benefits=fixed.
If we get to means-tested benefits, then we open up the door to a real mess. Other countries have done that, and as an example, some of my older Aussie friends handle it this way: Why save? And make sure to spend your assets down before retirement, else you’ll get nicked on your payouts.
Seriously. Real savers and high income folk are more likely to keep it up, but half-hearted retirement savers will look at the means-testing as a HUGE disincentive to saving now and thus getting penalised later. Is that the message we want to give people?
Bingo, the idiots who never saves his whole life spends lavishly is rewarded while pukes like me who pay taxes up the wazoo and save are punished. No thanks not for me. I will do everything legal and otherwise to make sure I am below the means threshold.
And what some older Aussies did was to make sure they took long, delightful, and expensive holidays in their years right before retirement. These were the people in the “middle”. If you were rich, now worry. If you were poor, didn’t matter. But if you were “close”, why not spend and enjoy it on European holidays, long train trips first class, and the like? With luck, you have just below the means cut-off!
That’s not the kind of behaviour we ought to encourage, and even though it might be financial madness to squander your money like that and thus rely on the government the rest of your life, the human reaction to such means-testing penalties overcomes math and logic.
(Or is it biologically normal? There is a good case to be made, especially in your older years, that enjoyment now is worth lots more than enjoyment delayed until a time when you might not be around any more.)
Ok. You have a point about means testing. Keep the means threshold high and remove the cap. Still works.
Hmmm… I guess that would work with a high means test cutoff. It’s one thing to squander a couple $100k’s over a few years, but anyone with $1 mill plus probably won’t want to pizz it away just to qualify for $20k/year in SocSec.
Then again, how much would we save by drawing the line high? A couple of percent? Might make a difference, though. I’m kind of reluctant to add that anyway, since SocSec is already a somewhat redistributionist formula, but such a move would probably get the vote of most of the mid-income punters.
Why not reduce the SS tax to what it was originally, when proposed by FDR? Why does it have to be ever increasing, ever more burdensome on the young worker?
You’re proposal is to turn it into just another welfare program - so that the 25 year old with house payment and a kid or two making $35k a year gets to send two or three thousand of that to the 65 year old living on a golf course somewhere, but who happened not to save anything for their own retirement. Nice.
Of course, going your way may just push the whole thing over the edge and kill the ponzi scheme for good.
If they remove the SS cap, and means-test benefits, I’d stop working immediately. There would be no point to it.
Because of the “war on savings” you can get very little guaranteed income from savings. if you saved, say, $4M and were able to squeeze out 100K/year income from it, and were means-tested out of all benefits, you may be just as well off as someone who gets SS, food stamps, medicare, and housing assistance.
Roughly speaking, during the life time of the baby boom generation the social security tax burden has doubled. Instead of expecting the system to bend, buckle, or break, many have banked on existing benefits remaining intact with generous cost of living adjustments. Even with the cap removed and respected studies showing the benefits to society are broad and deep, this program is going to have to be scaled back.
Living in California my elderly retired neighbors don’t pay significant property tax because of Prop. 13 and they live much better than they would have otherwise because of Social Security, so they have all day every day to exert themselves politically and be critical of working age people like me who pay the taxes that run the system. The creepiest part to me is how many people of my generation decided not to have kids in part because of tight budgets caused by the massive tax burden that our greedy, arrogant elders insisted on. The old are quite literally feeding on the young.
The old are quite literally feeding on the young.
This has always been the case, however it hasn’t always been so obvious and decadent in nature. The boomers have America’s future locked up in their housing and stock equity, and they are slowly selling it out to China/Saudi Arabia/India/Europe by buying expensive statusy crap.
“The creepiest part to me is how many people of my generation decided not to have kids in part because of tight budgets caused by the massive tax burden that our greedy, arrogant elders insisted on.”
Which elders insisted on steeply increasing the massive SS tax burden?
You guessed it.
Well, some interesting things in that (old) article:
The payroll tax is regressive: it falls much more heavily on middle- and lower-income families than it does on the rich.
They fail to point out that the payout is so skewed toward low earners that it more than makes up for it. Lower income families get back a far larger percentage of what they put into it than upper income families do. You put in twice as much into a pension plan as your neighbor, and you get not twice as much back but only 30% or 50% more in pension. Hmmm… How’s that for fairness?
And then Krugman with his eminent foresight:
If Mr. Bush wins in November, we can be sure that they will move forward on privatization — the creation of personal retirement accounts.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Privatization! Oh ye Gods, it’s coming if we don’t stop the man! Oh wait, it, uh… it didn’t happen. Never mind.
“generous cost of living adjustments.”
The government can’t even keep the cost stable under its inflation?
And did the boomers complain about the doubling of SS taxes?
We realized we were paying for the benefits of the Greatest Generation; we met our obligations to those who came before us.
Now that the boomers are reaching retirement, the younger people want to throw them to the wolves.
The only complaint that can be legitimately brought against the boomers is that we bred a generation of vipers.
“The GI Generation did everything well except raising their kids”
James Michener
Whatever Krazy - no reason my generation should live in poverty just so yours can enjoy a long, luxurious retirement.
Begin the Generational War has.
I’m old enough to qualify for AARP membership, but I’m not touching ‘em with a bargepole.
Why not? Because I think that the AARP is nothing more than a big business that’s hiding behind the “non-profit organization” banner.
And don’t get me started on their political advocacy. Just don’t.
“according to a survey released Tuesday by the AARP.”
How good are surveys and polls, really! 10% of Americans believe Elvis is still alive, and 9% believe they can write him a letter. Right off the bat, I discount any numbers reported by pollsters as being off by 10%…and then I start to doubt any numbers from anywhere
Elvis believes in UNLV surveys…
Surveys and polls are as good as (1) the sample group being a random representation of the group about which conclusions are being drawn, and (2) the sample size being large enough to respect the reliability of the results and draw valid conclusions from them.
And why do you bring up people’s erroneous beliefs when talking about alleged pollster errors, two completely separate issues?
Elvis is dead?
Saw him buying a corndog and a big gulp @ a 7-11 in Bakersfield, a few months ago.
“Compared with older people, a greater percentage of younger baby boomers, those 45 to 54, said they were cutting back on medications, prematurely withdrawing retirement funds and postponing paying bills.”
Ah yes, the first generation of Americans to be significantly worse off at every age than the generations before enters the age of need. Some of us saw it coming, but still have to worry that our kids will have it even worse.
People try to cut back on drugs
Talkin’ bout my generation
Just because I tapped my 401k?
Talkin’ bout my generation
Paying bills on time? lots of luck?
Cause, you’re talkin’ bout my generation
(’61 model, original upholstery)
That’s my primary worry, I’m concerned about how my Son’s future will be impacted by this general slide. My Wife and I have 1 Federal and 2 State pensions between the two of us, whatever SS will pay (if at all), savings and good health care.
What will he have? I urge him to take on the toughest courses he can in school and to carefully consider his career options (he’s leaning towards Engineering). I just worry about what kind of world it will be for him and his when he’s my age.
“What will he have?”
High taxes to pay for those sumptuous Federal and State pensions.
Touch’e - but a military and two Southern state pensions, while very adequate, are not the NE and Left Coast varieties.
Ahhh… so it’s different there.
I see.
It’s like America, only much, much poorer.
I’m just trying to make sure my kids are passionate about what they do and hungry for success.
Isn’t that how all the successful ones got there?
Nissan Plans Electric Car in U.S. by ’10
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/business/13auto.html?ref=business
With customers in emerging markets like China and India clamoring for cars, the industry has a responsibility to invest in the cleanest vehicles possible, he said, adding, “The question is how we participate in the growth of emerging markets, while doing it in a way that is not in contradiction with the fact that a lot of people are sensitive to the emission levels and the preservation of the planet.”
Good for Nissan, but this statement had me puzzled, “a lot of people are sensitive to the emission levels and the preservation of the planet.” Wouldn’t you think most people, if not all, would be sensitive to the preservation of the planet? Whatever, it’s still a move in a good direction.
I want one of these…
http://www.teslamotors.com
I want something that is capable of towing a trailer. Apparently hybrids don’t generate enough torque at present to meaningfully haul big loads. That is why you don’t see motor homes using this technology…yet.
When I lived in Mexico City in the 70’s they had these funny electric buses that drew power from overhead cables, and IIRC they had some awesome takeoff. Unlike a diesel bus which slowly pulled away from a stop, these things felt like dragsters. If you sat in a rear facing seat you had to brace yourself, or you would slide off the seat when it pulled away. They were called “trolebuses” (troh-leh-boo-sehs).
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Trolleybus_diagram-es.svg
Hell they had electric buses in downtown LA and SF when I was a kid. Does SF still have theirs?
Yes SF still has the electric trolley buses.
They never left the streets of Philadelphia!
SF has plenty - they tend to recycle older buses.
Electric motors can produce insane amounts of torque at 0 RPM. This is why diesel locomotives actually use diesel fuel to run large generator sets, and in turn they power electric motors that move the engine. There are a few guys that take electric vehicles to drag race tracks and well, none of the bio fuel vehicles can touch their times. It’s just that electric power is hard to store.
When you plug your car into the wall, where does the electricity come from? What is your electric car made of? Plastic, rubber, which come from….? Oil.
Most power comes from coal. If they would start switching to wind, solar and nuclear, it would solve a lot of problems.
Especially since these things are mostly charged overnight, during non-peak hours. This means proportionately more coal and nuclear, less natural gas and oil. Might make some sense economicly if your local electric company sold power with peak/offpeak pricing.
Here in AZ you can sign up for a plan that charges different prices for different timesof day. You can even get a big discount if agree to never go above x usage…you can hook up a “load balancer” that shuts off some circuits if you are about to go above your “max usage”. We had this when I first moved into my house. Sucks when the clothes dryer kicks off on Sunday afternoon. With 2 full-time working, there was no time to do laundry other than Sunday afternoon, so we dumped that rate plan.
The choices we collectively make are largely driven by economics and govt regulations. If wind, solar or nuclear turns out be cheaper and more convenient than coal or oil, the energy industry would push it forward, but all changes take their own sweet time. Now that oil prices are steadily climibing, the energy use landscape may look quite a bit different in the coming decade.
Most power comes from coal.
Not necessarily. Depends on where you live. In the mid-part of the country, yes. In other parts, certainly not. You can probably get that info every few months as an insert in your electric bill, if you are curious.
49% of electrical power comes from coal as fuel
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat1p1.html
Wind ($23.37) v. Gas (25 Cents)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121055427930584069.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks
An even better way to tell the story is by how much taxpayer money is dispensed per unit of energy, so the costs are standardized. For electricity generation, the EIA concludes that solar energy is subsidized to the tune of $24.34 per megawatt hour, wind $23.37 and “clean coal” $29.81. By contrast, normal coal receives 44 cents, natural gas a mere quarter, hydroelectric about 67 cents and nuclear power $1.59.
The same study also looked at federal subsidies for non-electrical energy production, such as for fuel. It found that ethanol and biofuels receive $5.72 per British thermal unit of energy produced. That compares to $2.82 for solar and $1.35 for refined coal, but only three cents per BTU for natural gas and other petroleum liquids.
All of this shows that there is a reason fossil fuels continue to dominate American energy production: They are extremely cost-effective. That’s a reality to keep in mind the next time you hear a politician talk about creating millions of “green jobs.” Those jobs won’t come cheap, and you’ll be paying for them.
This is partly a matter of scale. Probably some energy sources (e.g., nuclear, ethanol) continue to require subsidies once they reach maturity, and those sources are probably not worth subsidizing. However, every new industry has startup expenses. New products can offset high unit startup costs with higher gross margins, but energy, being a commodity, cannot. Without external subsidy, energy alternatives would emerge very slowly unless the price of traditional sources rose much higher and/or shortages developed. Which presumably we want to avoid.
more importantly what do you drive on and how did it get there. The cost of road construction and maintenance is rising rapidly.
Oil will always be necessary, but wasting and importing less of it isn’t such a bad idea.
pain at the other pump:
The hottest trend in footwear this season? Inflation.
After a decade of declining prices, footwear makers at all levels are raising prices. The mass-market Payless, a unit of Collective Brands Inc., recently increased prices on shoes in stores, though it won’t say by how much. Brown Shoe Co., which makes Via Spiga and Buster Brown footwear and hasn’t altered prices in years, plans an increase of 5% to 12% for fall. And the Nine West shoe label plans to boost prices on some styles by 15% next year.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121064588191087389.html?mod=todays_us_marketplace
Enough of these increases in “non volatile goods” may force the Government to admit there might be a problem with inflation.
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=a.xT8BwH_nYI&refer=home
Wear Crocs. If you shop around you can get them for $20 a pair.
get cracks at walmart = crox = $6
I’d rather pay an extra $14 than give one dime of my money to Walmart.
I really wish people would stop shopping at Walmart. The local store is so crowded that it takes me a good 15 minutes to get one little thing.
I have been in wmart maybe 7 times in my life. I then immediately take a shower when I get back home.
What if Wal-Mart was to all of the sudden, get great indigestion from overbuilding so much?
They’d start closing down the money-loser locations, and then where would $8 an hour wage-slave America, go shopping?
I’m with TX on this one. Walmart is a blight on the American landscape in many ways.
I have been in wmart maybe 7 times in my life. I then immediately take a shower when I get back home.
We have two super centers in Loveland. The older one fits your description. The newer one is much nicer, almost like being at a Target. I bought a router there last year.
Why? Wal*Mart is evil? They import from China? Your Crocks shoes are made in China, btw. (They do have a plant in Florida though).
I hate Walmart for the way they run the little guy out of business. I’d rather pay a little extra and deal with real human beings who know what they’re selling. Saving a little money isn’t all there is to shopping, IMO.
My dislike of Wal-Mart goes back to when I was a bike mechanic. Had more than my fill of trying to get their bikes to run properly. Seems that their assembly people couldn’t be bothered to set them up right. And Wal-Mart wouldn’t make them right for their customers. So, those customers would have to come to my shop and pay us to do the job.
I go to Wallyworld because there isn’t another grocery store within 60 miles that doesn’t reek of bipedal appendages and gluteus’s…
I go to Wallyworld because it’s the only grocery store within 60 miles that doesn’t emanate the aroma of bipedal appendeges and glutueus’s…
Are those the bright pink things that look like rubber bags flopping on peoples’ feet? I think I will pay more for real shoes.
Not a fashion statement I’m into. A nice pair of Bass loafers is more my style…
Unfortunately Carolina doesn’t seem to make the “Postman Oxfords,” that they used to.
They come in all sorts of ugly colors. You’d have to pay me $20 to wear them, and that’s an hourly rate.
You probably wouldn’t like the Pepto-Bismol pink ones I have on at the moment, or the bright purple ones under the desk
Man I was in a dairy queen and the guy next to me was wearing some! I didn’t know what they were, but they were making my eyes bleed.
RE: Wear Crocs.
But watch out for escalators. You might lose toes if you’re not payin’ attention when stepping off.
Greensburg vet selling home given by charity by Justin Vellucci
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/westmoreland/s_567181.html
It took five months for Army Cpl. Carl Duda to go from shock over winning a West Mifflin home to what he calls practical thinking about managing a family investment.
The Greensburg veteran is selling the five-bedroom house he received for free in December through a competition among veterans who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Duda, 37, said he might use the money he makes to invest in real estate. The house is listed through Howard Hanna Real Estate Services at $59,900.”
==============================================================
ROFL! Wise decision there, champ! Jim Toner, though, shouldn’t be too surprised since I think it’s the same Jim Toner who runs the Real Estate Riches program.
AIG quietly raising 4 bil more than announced
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/aig-prices-2-offers-raise/story.aspx?guid=%7BB0061DC7%2DEDFC%2D4D66%2DB391%2DB3F2A0580A4A%7D
Former chairman urges that AIG postpone its shareholders meeting.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/finance/aig-chief-executive-urges-board-considers-postponing-annual-meeting/
May 13, 2008
Eugene Meyer On Housing & the Great Depression
Who is Eugene Meyer?
One of the most influential men in the America during the first half of the 20th century, more than some Presidents. Some may know him as the father of Katherine Graham (who inherited his paper Washington Post). Anyway, he was the Chairman of the Federal Reserve during the worst economic period in US history, 1930-1933 (to be fair, the process was well underway when he was appointed in September 1930), one of his lesser accomplishments, or influences.
“He [Eugene Meyer] believed that housing construction had large multiplier effects, and that the problems of the Great Depression were in large part due to a housing boom-bust cycle that was the result of real estate speculation. For Meyer psychology was an important determinant of economic activity.”
http://www.lerner.udel.edu/economics/WorkingPapers/2006/UDWP2006-09.pdf
Jas
–
Stock market crash might cause recessions, but not depressions. Housing bust can cause severe recessions (1980-82) and depressions.
Jas
the fed raised rates 300 basis points during the depression- cool man
thanks gene
–
“the fed raised rates 300 basis points during the depression- cool man thanks gene”
Where did you read that and what period are you talking about?
“During the 1930, the Federal Reserve had steadily lowered its re-discount rates: from 4 ½ per cent at the beginning of the year to 2% at the end, and finally down to 1 ½ per cent in mid-1931.”
Sounds familiar?
This lowering of the rate lead to a bigger monetary crisis!
“When the monetary crisis came at the end of the year [1931], the Federal Reserve raised the rediscount rate to 3 ½ per cent… The FRS has been sharply criticized by economists for its ‘tight money” policy in the last quarter of 1931. Actually, its policy was still inflationary [easy money] on the balance, since it still increased collateral reserves.”
Govt intervention and manipulation of the economy is not as easy as people think and doesn’t always produce the desired results. Surprise, surprise! We shall find out how well Bernanke’s manipulation works by the end of 2009.
The depression of 1920 (it was real bad) would have lasted lot longer had the govt and the Fed intervened like they did beginning in 1929. Very few people are told of that fact.
Jas
ron paul on the housing bubble:
http://www.safehaven.com/article-10235.htm
–
“Big Government Responsible for Housing Bubble”
Some of us cranks had known it for years. Govt intervention in the economy, by providing or guarantying loans, began after 1910 (maybe after 1912 and under Wilson), but now we have reached extremes. Govt does not belong in the private debt business.
Jas
The solution is for government to stop micromanaging the economy and let the market adjust, as painful as that will be for some. We should not force taxpayers, including renters and more frugal homeowners, to switch places with the speculators and take on those same risks that bankrupted them. It is a terrible idea to spread the financial crisis any wider or deeper than it already is, and to prolong the agony years into the future. Socializing the losses now will only create more unintended consequences that will give new excuses for further government interventions in the future. This is how government grows - by claiming to correct the mistakes it earlier created, all the while constantly shaking down the taxpayer. The market needs a chance to correct itself, and Congress needs to avoid making the situation worse by pretending to ride to the rescue.
And there you have it!
Inconvenient truths:
“However, many in Washington fail to realize it was government intervention that brought on the current economic malaise in the first place. The Federal Reserve’s artificially low interest rates created the loose, easy credit that ignited a voracious appetite in the banks for borrowers. People made these lending and buying decisions based on market conditions that were wildly manipulated by government. But part of sound financial management should be recognizing untenable or falsified economic conditions and adjusting risk accordingly. Many banks failed to do that and are now looking to taxpayers to pick up the pieces. This is wrong-headed and unfair, but Congress is attempting to do it anyway.”
EDS buyout is a huge deal around here. They’re a gigantic employer in this area. Wonder if jobs will be lost.
Wonder if jobs will be lost.
_______________________________________
I dunno…but damn, I am starting to hear the rumblings of a large sucking sound.
The sucking sound you hear comes from the financial tornado which is vacuuming subprime liquidity from the U.S. housing market.
In the TX thread on Saturday, Chuck Dannis (local RE huckster) was quoted as saying if jobs were lost around here like in the previous bust, all bets for a moderated price drop would be off. I know law firms are starting to lay off so this could be interesting.
Yeah, I noticed that quote about job losses, too. I have no idea what the buyout means for EDS employees, but Texas Instruments, Radio Shack, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, JC Penny, Pier1 Imports, Capitol One Auto Finance, GE Commercial Finance…these are all major employers in DFW, and I would expect many of these companies to cut back staff during this recession.
Layoffs in Texas - YTD - have not been as horrible as most states. About 50 large scale MAs filed. Borland in its move from Silicone valley to Austin let a lot of people go, but it was still a loss for Cal and a net gain for Texas. Apple is moving the rest of its sales and support to Austin. These cos. had to file MAs in Texas but the layoffs occurred in Cal.
Manufacturing is weak, but fewer financial layoffs than last year.
last week:
Accenture is cutting 95 employees in Houston beginning July 1, according to a letter the company sent to the Texas Workforce Commission.
Carrollton-based Home Interiors & Gifts Inc. will shutter two subsidiaries at the end of June, leading to the loss of nearly 200 jobs.
Citigroup Inc. is closing its auto financing branch in Bedford and cutting 125 jobs.
Heinz North America said it will close its Portion Pac Inc. factory in Dallas by the end of June, eliminating 195 jobs in the process.
PRC is consolidating its Carrollton operations at 3350 Boyhgton Drive and laying off 339 employees beginning June 30.
Whole Foods Market is laying off 52 workers at its Austin Bake House at 4201 South Congress in Austin on June 15.
Hoz,
I’m interested in where you go to get the layoffs by company that you post on the blog from time to time.
Thanks!
Yes- and on the other side of the coin, my soon-to-be graduated UT niece just got a 60K+ starter job at Lyondell in Channelview (Houston).
Ha! My sister’s fiance works there too.
Good thing we still make chemicals in the US.
NAR suggested that -70,000 jobs figure PLUS a huge interest rate hike (to over 15%?) would be required to cause housing prices to flatten in the DFW area. (Publication, c.2005 IIRC)
I think that its virtually certain that overlapping jobs will be cut in HP and EDS after the merger. People who work in the front lines providing services to customers will probably be OK, but I could see a lot middle management and people in “overhead” departments getting dejobbed.
HP has definiteley made the move from “technical leadership” to “operational excellence” (AKA cutting costs till you drop dead), so I would expect plenty of bloodletting. Remember how many people were let go after the Compaq merger? It was tens of thousands, and that was before Mark “keep cutting costs” Hurd became the CEO.
I used to work for EDS. HP is still primarily a computer manufacturing company. EDS is much more in the consulting and systems outsourcing business. There isn’t that much overlap, some of course, but not enough that will have a significant impact on either side.
What will be interesting is the culture clash. HP is an engineering company. Heavy into supply chain, six sigma, all that stuff. EDS is a purely cowboy sales company. Sell it for the highest price you can, then change order them till they bleed. EDS will outsource your IT Department. Every bit. Take your staff, buy out your computers. Then they own you. Price goes way up every year and you can’t do anything about it. Great business, if you’re one of the guys at the top.
I thought Perot was the “guy at the top”
GM bought EDS from Perot back in the late ’80’s. Perot became a member of the Board of GM, but then raised too much hell and got kicked off.
GM spun off EDS around ‘94, IIRC, and EDS has been struggling ever since. EDS ran all of GM’s major computing needs out of Plano, TX for awhile. Don’t know if they still do or not.
I worked on a very large EDS contract (NMCI). Mostly Dell equipment, with a small amount of Sun hardware (which was my world). I guess the Navy can look forward to HP servers versus Dell!
CNBC (David Faber?) this mornign mentioned $1B in savings - mainly people overlap. 3-5K layoffs?
Ben,
I would think about trying out Google friends connect if I were you:
http://www.google.com/friendconnect/
I know so many people into social networking technology that don’t have a network. Whereas you have a huge network but no social networking technology.
social networking technology? I don’t even have a cell phone…
Someone tried to get me to sign up for that and I said thanks but no thanks. Hackers, scammers, all over it.
“I don’t even have a cell phone…”
I hear ya. I gave in and got a pay as you go Virgin Mobile for emergencies. That’s as far as I’m willing to go. People look at me like I’ve got three heads when I won’t give them a cell phone number.
No house phone for me. Only cell phone and data card for internet. I’m not going to pay a penny to commie ILEC telcos who received gov’t subsidies to run wires to houses and then charges bucko bucks to use them.
I’m not going to pay a penny to commie ILEC telcos
And so you pay a different one $49.95 per month plus fees and taxes and surcharges and taxes and fees?
I have a cell phone that I use for calling 911. And, here’s a tip: If you use a cell phone for this type of call, you don’t need to pay for a calling plan.
I don’t need a cell phone –everyone else has one in times of dispair! Thanks to all those out there who have come to my rescue in times past.
Well, here in Australia we elected the left-wing party last year, and now we know the result.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=562244
Sheesh.
You don’t like the surplus? We could send you some of our massive right-wing created deficit, or we could attack you more directly, as in Iraq.
Australia has radically attacked the global recession in a different way than the US and Europe. I think they will do very well economically over the next 5-10 years.
The surplus is surprisingly good; let’s see if it hangs on till next year and beyond. Keep in mind that oftentimes the results first year of a party being in power are actually due to the previous party that WAS in power. However, Labor in Australia seems to be off to not-so-bad a start. Being a big commodity exporter can’t hurt, right?
you bears missed this
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/105048/10-Fastest-Growing-Real-Estate-Markets
see you in Scranton, baby
I just sent Dunder Mifflin my résumé.
–
Debt woes drive thousands of Indian farmers to suicide:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080511/ap_on_re_as/india_farmer_suicides;_ylt=Al9Hl0vygvjujv2mqeam7yVvaA8F
“When we loan them money, we are quite sure whether or not they can pay,” he said, his long fingers crossed in his lap. “We know it’s going to be our land eventually.”
Debt Pushers have known this for millennia. How to steal someone’s property? Lend him money, especially, for consumption, secured by the property. It is only a matter of time before you get the property.
As an article in LIFE magazine pointed out in 1970, the credit card companies knew that people will not be able to pay their balances in time and pay high interest rate and penalties. It is a systematic scam whereby “bankers” know the outcome.
“At least 160,000 farmers have committed suicide since 1997, said K. Nagaraj of the Madras Institute of Development Studies.”
Yes, yes, India is the next economic power and making great economic progress. India is at best a shameful democracy. Crooks reign supreme! But, hey, we can make money by “investing” in the Indian Scam Market. Not for me.
It Is the Debt, Stupid!
Jas
As with everything else that is harmful to one’s well being:
Just say “No”.
–
Easier “said” that done!
Jas
‘Easier “said” than done.’
From the ruinous terms of the loan and the almost sure thing that losing the property would be the result of taking the loan and by taking the loan I might up killing myself, saying “no” to the lenders would be the easiest word I would ever utter.
My personal theory is that the banksters aren’t really interested in economic growth. What they really want is controlling interest. So they would prefer to control 90% of a smaller pie than 30% of a pie that is an order of magnitude bigger (or larger). That’s why they prefer to steal the poor farmers land as opposed to help make him prosperous and hence a good customer. Just my opinion.
Reality is probably that over the long term the big bankers want economic growth - just not steady growth. Recessions and depressions have a way of weeding out the weaker competition. Stronger ones are willing to live with short-term shrinkage in order to gain long-term market share.
No money down loans are still available…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24580917/
Some people never learn.
“But for those who lack the wherewithal to put even a little skin in the game, there’s a workaround: a not-for-profit organization can give prospective buyers the teensy downpayment. The spigot is wide open. Of the 180,881 loans that the FHA insured in the first half of fiscal 2008, 36.7 percent, or 66,337, were seller-funded. With home builders and sellers desperate to make sales in a slowing real estate market, this percentage is likely to grow.”
This is the stealth housing welfare deal of the new century. It works something like this:
1) Get an unqualified buyer into a home they cannot afford with no skin in the game.
2) The homeowner gets to live in a home they cannot afford for several years until financial reality catches up with them, rendering them unable to continue making the mortgage payment. (This is especially likely when I/O Option ARMs resets to fully-amortizing.)
3) Since the loan is FHA, it is federally insured. Thus, when the homeowner eventually suffers the misfortune of losing their home, the lender is made whole on Uncle Sam’s dime.
I thought the FHA was pretty picky with regards to the types of loans? You sure they deal with subprime?
What is the difference between a 0 pct downpayment loan and a subprime loan? A rose bush by another name would still bear thorns.
What a racket Nehemiah has going. They take 1% from all these transactions and put buyers that much more underwater by the amount that the property is marked up to compensate for the seller’s ‘gift’ contribution. They walk away richer and my tax dollars are it backing it up. Lovely.
Just an annecdote from the Middle of Nowhere - I’ve told you about the 250K + building bubble we’ve had in our little town. The local builders went crazy a couple of years before we moved here and concentrated on building 250K + homes in a town with a median family income of 31K, sixty miles from any large city (the 2001 cencus info stated that only 100 families had incomes in excess of 100K a year). The resale market for these homes have been languishing with few of the former customers able to buy anymore with the restrictions on mortgages.
I take a morning walk through these tony areas every morning and I’ve been amazed at the number of houses for sale in the 250-400K range ( none have sold or the deal fell apart). Well I finally had a close look at the biggest house on the toniest Cul de Sac in town (I’m not crazy about free roaming pit bulls so I’ve avoided it).
Anyway,this thing is a pretentious French Chateau thing. Probably 5500 feet - arched entry to a inner court garage with walkway to the garage complex over it, massive rooflines, brick and fake stone, electric gate, etc.
Well, it’s derelict. The courtyard is full of just - trash and junk (looks like a dumping ground). The double doors to nowhere over the garage actually have rust on them, the roof has missing tiles, and all of the windows have cardboard or plywood leaned against them. Totally derelict and forlorn.
There’s no mention of the thing in the real estate ads or listings, there’s no life and it’s never been lived in (or really even finished). I took a closer look at the neighborhood as I walked back and realized many of the houses don’t look occupied - no for sale signs - just unoccupied with sloppy gardening.
Hmmm. wonder who’s holding these things off the market and why (I can guess). The prices on the homes for sale now would plummet like a rock if these things came on the market.
Free roaming pit bulls? And this is the “toniest Cul de Sac in town”? I have to wonder what the rest of town is like. Eeeek!
I’d guess that the French Chateau must be bank-owned. (You might be able to look at property records for the county and see.) In which case the bank would like to get rid of it, surely, but they also might have got the bad news from realtors that it will fetch only a fraction of what the bank “bought” it for.
And in that case, the bank is sitting on its hands wondering how to unload this thing and wishing local house prices will stabilise.
Either that, or they just haven’t got round to foreclosing it. Public records ought to say.
You’ve never seen so many free roaming dogs in your life. In my neighborhood we have 3 or 4 dogs that literally stop traffic because they are asleep in the street or won’t move. It’s funny to a point. We do have a dogcatcher (who’s teamed with two convicts) but the only dogs they catch are in the “poor” (read black) side of town.
I think you’re right about the REO’s I counted 14 homes on the market within 10 minutes walk of home this morning. Mostly higher end ones out of maybe 100 -120 total. Not looking good here, a realtor who goes to church with me has been exceptionally eager to get us to buy since we’re probably the only family in town in our income level that rents. NOT gonna happen.
That bank is a zombie. Watch Dawn of the Dead. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Roidy
I quit counting the city ordinances my neighbors flout with their unleashed dogs. I’m tempted to take a photo of them out for a patrol and then complain about them being over the 3 attack dog limit on my way out of town (forcing them to get the special dog farm license.)
Oh well, at least the little poodle the other neighbors apparently trained to run up to our yard to poop has stopped visiting…
Have I got some websites for you:
1. http://dogsbite.org/
2. http://dogassault.com/
3. http://dogbitelaw.com/
The city will kill the dog (why not the owner that turns it loose?), but only after the second attack - Gee thanks.
My wife is afraid of large dogs. Mostly because she is one of the people who know from first hand experience what it is like to go through the full rabies treatment in the third world as a child from a dog attack in her own yard.
Thoughtless rude selfish people are annoying everywhere.l
Thanks for the links. It seems that Texas is the land of ineffective knee jerk government.
Another great reason to rent: If your neighbors stop paying their condo association dues, you can move on to rent in another neighborhood.
As Dues Dry Up, The Neighbors Pay
Neighborhood associations are grappling with shrunken budgets as residents lose their homes to foreclosure and building slows. As a result, associations are raising fees or putting the brakes on improvements and amenities.
“$9.3 million annual operating budget. ”
For only 193 units……
Wonder how much Dee Tyler, CEO of Colorado Association Services takes off the top of that $9 mil ?
What do our libertarian friends here think of Bob Barr’s run for President?
(serious question, not snarky comment.)
I wish he had a chance, especially now with only the big-government types left with any chance in the race, but given the electoral arrangement in the USA, it is all for nought, other than to be the spoiler a la Nader.
Disingenuous. Voted for the war, now anti-war. Sorry.
Hey, haven’t we heard THAT from a presidential candidate before? Not that I’m saying that reversing position like that is a good thing. Does seem odd that a libertarian would have voted for a foreign war in the first place, though. Makes him seem like a recent convert.
Um…he used to be a conservative Republican with staunch anti-abortion views until someone pointed out he paid for his 1st wife to have one. He also refused to answer questions during his divorce from wife #2 as to whether or not he had extra-martial affair with the woman who later became wife #3 (but as someone pointed out with Senator McCain, as long as you tell your wife that you are on a ‘break’ it doesn’t count as an affair). This of course, did not stop him from leading the fight to have Bill C impeached. Throw in his anti-drug rhetoric and he seems like the perfect Libertarian candidate.
They Arb What They Arb
“…They teach you in Business 101 (as well as in Cliches 101) that when you’re trying to get out of a hole, the first step is to stop digging it deeper. With that in mind, I’m appalled by the way many capital-strapped big banks and brokerage houses continue paying substantial cash dividends to common shareholders even as they’re raising vast amounts of expensive new capital to shore up their balance sheets.
Maybe these payments prop up the stock price in the short term, but they come at a steep long-term cost. Bank of America is paying common stockholders an annualized $11.4 billion a year; Citigroup, $6.9 billion; Merrill Lynch, $1.4 billion. Why would you fill a bucket from the top while letting water gush out of the bottom? Maybe these firms need to take a remedial course: Common Sense 101. ”
Mr. Allan Sloan
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051202404.html
Most of the article deals with Microsoft/Yahoo crap.
I like his audio on the radio, but would prefer a little less hip jokester. He’s a better read IMO.
Some companies pay out dividends (in part), and at least in “normal times”, so that management is efficient in their use of cash.
“We better be efficient now!”
Inflation in China is around 10%, so everything they send here will go up in price around 15%, but everybody in America seems to have both feet on the brakes, and is only buying needs, not wants.
Impasse
THE FED
Financial markets still out of whack, Bernanke says
Fed chief: Efforts have helped but not cured freeze-up that started last August
By Greg Robb, MarketWatch
Last update: 9:07 a.m. EDT May 13, 2008
Because it is an insolvancy crisis, not a liquidity crisis.
The dirty little secret.
Perhaps if the Fed stopped executing myriad extraordinary behind-the-scenes bailout measures (e.g., injection of $29 bn in taxpayer-funded guarantees to help the BSC deal go through, opening of TAF to lend to big banks at below market interest rates, etc, etc, etc), markets could have a chance to recovery from being out of whack.
The stock market desperately wants to sell off today, but for some strange reason the flight-to-quality investments (gold and T-bonds) are taking the bullet instead.
–
“China will tip over in the second half of this year.”
I have been saying this for a while and as usual I was early. I am bullish long-term on China (it will come out of the global depression in far better economic shape than America and India), but china will definitely have a major bust after the current boom.
Jas
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/12/ccambrose112.xml
The global slump of 2008-09 has begun as poison spreads
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
Last Updated: 12:59am BST 13/05/2008
The avalanche of bankruptcies has begun. Six US companies of substance have defaulted on bonds over the past fortnight, against 17 for the whole of last year.
As a “non-believer” in the instant rebound story, I am not easily shocked by gloomy reports. But the latest note by Standard & Poor’s - The Bust After The Boom - gave me a fright.
…
Jas
Unless Europe goes South quickly, China will not tip before Shanghai 2010.
As someone who has lived in Asia for 15 years, I agree with you completely. A lot of Asian economies are booming on a mixture of new domestic credit facilities for the masses and exports, the perfect recipe for a bust.
Jas - Do you have any insights on the bombings in Jaipur today?
–
Sorry, it is news to me. Link?
BTW, I was born in Jodhpur (same state) area. India is ripe for violence on various grounds.
Jas
Sorry, late in getting back.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSSP1811320080513?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
As I was skimming the WSJ print edition today, this reader comment caught my eye. It was written by a Londoner about FL real estate taxes. Just goes to prove that those rich foreigners may actually break out a calculator and figure out FL property holding costs.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121064775186587547.html
Bank of America projects greater home equity losses from “significant economic pressure”
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080513/bank_of_america_outlook.html
The Charlotte-based company says it expects losses in its home equity portfolio to increase in the near-term and projected future losses in that area that exceed the bank’s earlier range of 2 percent to 2.5 percent.
I thought all was well?
i just had to share this. i was doing my usual craigslist tour of local garage sales this morning when i came upon this very strage add. They were basically selling everything in the house, even plants. and it gave the peoples full address. so, little intrigued and little more curious, i decided to go and look. Before i left though something in my head told me to go and check the property records for this house(dont ask me what, i have no idea what made me do that). Anyway much to my surprise this was a house that is in the process of being forclosed on.!!!!!!! even more curious now i went for a ride. This house is located in an neighborhood where the houses start out at 400k… while there was nothing to indicate that there was a sale going on, there was one car in the driveway. when i drove up, there was a a guy with a goofy smile on his face walking out of the house with two huge doors in his hand. they were selling off the doors of the house!!!!!! it was at one point a nice house. it can no longer be concidered that… the owner of the house was as jovial and happy go lucky as they come. they did try to sell me some dishes and pots and pans but i declined. I dont think i have ever left somewhere as quick as i left from there. i had never seen anything like this before. i am sure that by the time the house is sold on an auction(on 05/20/2008) there will be nothing left inside. they were even selling the appliances and bathroom stuff. sorry i just had to share as this is just mind boggling to me how people get themselves in places like this.
What you should do is print the ad and send it to the lender of record along with a letter describing what you saw. Perhaps a copy to the local law enforcement authority. That is technically theft.
“…That is technically theft.”
Not to be confused with the non-technical theft of Wall Street & Bankers.
They’re called crooks. How about reporting them to their lender so they can be caught in the act?
how do i do that? i am not sure who or how i would tell the lender that the house they are about to sell on an auction is going to be just the shell of a house? i know the selling of the doors was wrong(even more wrong was the person who bough them) but the appliances they have a right to sell no?
I thnk convention is that if you can typically get it out without tools, it’s not “part of the house”. So a washer/dryer, yes. A pull-out range/oven, still yes. A fridge, yes.
But a range hood, no. Toilets, sinks, doors, certainly not.
i dont know if they would sell the toilets and sinks but then….. i dont know….. i looked at couple of more adds on craigslist that say moving sale, out of two i looked at, one was a forclosed house.
Interview Institutional Risk Analytics with Mr. Alex Pollock
…”The IRA: Speaking of doing something, not nothing, the Congress finally bullied OFHEO into taking the capital restrictions off of FNM and Freddie Mac (NYSE:FRE). We just got a chance to sit with the senior officers of both organizations at a CSUITE event in New York sponsored by PRMIA. These folks are very focused on valuation and risk avoidance. They don’t sound like they are aching to take more risk in this illiquid, dysfunctional market.
Pollock: I think that is probably right. In fact, FNM and FRE are certainly setting themselves up to be very profitable going forward after all of these accounting losses and write downs. They are in fact setting up to be in an even stronger position to manage their duopoly, their domination of the US mortgage market. In the intermediate term, they may be more profitable than before.
The IRA: If they can survive this year. You don’t think that either organization has a solvency problem?
Pollock: No, I don’t think that solvency is ever an issue. If you are a GSE, I don’t think it matters if you are solvent. You are always solvent because you have unlimited implicit but real capital.
The IRA: And you don’t see any prospect of the Congress rolling back the implicit monopoly of the GSEs over the housing market?
Pollock: No, I think the Congress is trying to expand it. You’ve got some members already talking about making the authority to buy jumbo mortgages permanent. As a fair trade for having the duopoly, the GSEs should be tasked with adding liquidity to the subprime mortgage market.
The IRA: So the US will continue with a largely government-run secondary market for mortgages with the banks trying to make a living around the periphery.
Pollock: Well, I view the banks as GSEs, as well. They are mostly smaller, more numerous and much more competitive, but they are still GSEs. The difference is that FNM and FRE were set up as market dominating GSEs with no ability for competition, while banks are far more numerous, with lower barriers to entry. The federal charter of a GSE carries many advantages and is exclusive to the duopoly, while the bank charter is less restricted and widely available. But they are both government-sponsored bodies. They both operate under government charters, their liabilities are supported by government guarantees, the FDIC and the Fed in the case of the banks. They are subject to all types of government direction in the name of progressive era social engineering. So I think of depositories as GSEs; they are just a lot more competitive because there are thousands of charters instead of two. …”
http://us1.institutionalriskanalytics.com/pub/IRAstory.asp?tag=280
Mr. Pollock is a director of the CME. I think Mr. Pollock is correct in calling banks GSEs. The Federal Reserves actions suggest GSE support.
“And you don’t see any prospect of the Congress rolling back the implicit monopoly of the GSEs over the housing market?”
Would a kid deliberately break his own cookie jar?
I wonder of Home Depot can sue over this.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/home_depot_honors_fallen_soldiers
The only thing it will do is make The Onion more popular. It’s clearly satire.
I’d just STFU if I were them. In any case, isn’t the Larry Flynt case an obvious precedent here?
Satire is clearly protected speech under the Constitution, even self-inflicted satire. And even a humorless corporate attorney knows The Onion is satire.
Faster Pussycat is right, it’d make great publicity for The Onion; not so much for Home Depot.
I know it’s satire. The question was intended to get people to click on the link. There is another Onion video link way above, under my pseudonym, concerning the use of containers.
Timberrrrrrrrr
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/article.pl?article_id=29800
From the article:
Downtown condominium developers suffered their worst first quarter in at least a decade, selling just 201 units — an unwelcome trend as unsold condos start piling up.
The total represents an 83% drop from first-quarter 2007, when downtown developers sold 1,207 units …
83% off?
Well, I don’t have a fancy MBA from Northwestern University, but that doesn’t sound too good to me.
OK, somebody’s not telling the truth. Bozeman, Montana.
A realtor’s market conditions page says “Sales prices have decreased 14.6% in the last six months” from $358k to $305k.
But wait, State tax chief says Montana property prices holding after talking to realtors and appraisers in Bozeman.
Hmmm.
Even in Bozeman, the land of ultimate denial, there is a realization that home prices are falling and falling hard. Sales have fallen to near zero. And this guy pretends nothing is happening? Guess the state needs the property tax money!
The market is almost positive now. Do you get the feeling that the market is about to explode upward? Even with all the bad news that keeps coming out, the market seems to fall initially and then usually ends up. It doesn’t seem rational but I get the feeling that by the end of summer the market may be approaching 14K. I don’t see a lot that will take this market down. High energy prices are not doing it nor are continued financial sector loses. I’m not buying now because the market seems to behave opposite to my best interest but it feels like the market is about to have another large movement up.
Hoz on certain days in the past and even a few CNBC reporters have commented on certain days of up markets w/low volume commenting that despite the index #s being up, lots of players were on the sidelines. I’ve always wanted to get a little better insight as to volume and its tells, if anyone is so inclined to get into the details.
Volume is the amount of shares being traded, or overall amount of money being put into the market.
I am no expert, but if the market (or particular equity) moves up on heavy volume, big money is being pumped in on the buy side. If it moves down on heavy volume, bug money is dumping.
Moves up on light volume could be anything, a fund could be trading with itself for all you know (not sure if this is legal), it could be manipulation, etc. Same thing for light volume on the down side.
This is overlysimplified, and I am no expert.
When a market is dictated by supply and demand, volume tells you what is happening to supply. If heavy volume drives a stock up, there is serious demand for shares, and supply is limited.
If heavy volume drives a stock down, supply is being dumped onto the market, and demand is dwindling.
Now, I am hoping someone will offer a better explaination, and correct my simplified explanation. I offer that up to one of the experts on the board.
Thanks waiting.
Indulge me in my Schadenfreude.
Someone posted a Ben Stein pump article on the WaMu board, and I responded with our favorite :
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=19978&tid=145286&mid=145286&tof=3&frt=2
“The Senate voted 97 to 1 to suspend oil deliveries to the emergency oil reserve, after most Republicans abandoned the president on the issue.”
Hey Limpbaugh … what lubricant do you use with your little blue pill?
Yeah, Mcpain & the republican’s by a landslide in Nov… will Ann Coulter wear a blue dress and do the tango with Arnie the Gropeinator… Fox news at 11
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/13/video-obamatopia/
2000 - 2008 bushotopia … x2 wars …. caskets hidden from view… highest “Home ownership” in the history of the US of A … Dickey Boy Cheney nominated for Nobel Peace prize… Limpbaugh appointed National Drug & I.Q. Czar … Karl Rove admitted to Juilliard school of dance…
Reality sucks!
LOL.
Gropenator - Ha!
VirginiaTechDan,
What’s your email? If you email me your address, I’ll mail the Crash Proof book to you. I had lent it to some friends. Sorry, I didn’t mean for it to get out of the HBB group. On the positive side, I recruited some new HBB readers. And, the $1 is still in it!!
I would love to borrow that ‘crash proof’ book. I may stick another few $$$ in the book for the favor.
File under: When Money meets Politics… or…How Money keeps score…
“…But “no Hillary cups,” she said. “It’s not an option in my house.”
Hamptons Poll: Take a Sip, Cast Your Vote
EAST HAMPTON, N.Y.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/fashion/11mono.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
If it can happen in France, why not Paris Texas?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/greathomesanddestinations/14gh-paris.html
Former President Bill Clinton was in Roseburg Oregon today, not much fanfare.
My youngest, who is a fish at the high school, didnt even mention it to me until I asked her about it. Douglas County Oregon does not go DEM…too many old caucasion people with too much moneys.
just an observsation. I waste votes on character. What a waste.
No Dubai Apartment rental for “Dickey Boy” …he would never be labeled a “bitter renter”
“These are decisive times for America,” Cheney said. “And whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or national security, the right answers are coming from Republicans”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adWBHeaf3TKM&refer=home
Texas real estate cult:
Public records show that Yisrayl Hawkins owns at least $2.1 million in land, housing and mobile homes.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/13/yaweh.polygamy.ap/index.html
Help — my head is spinning and is about to explode!
GM: US is in recession, gas prices affecting sales
Boston Globe, United States - 2 hours ago
White House: data shows US not in recession
Reuters - 5 hours ago
JPMorgan Chase CEO: Recession is just beginning
The Associated Press - May 12, 2008
Recession? Not So Fast, Say Some
By Kelly Evans and Justin Lahart
Word Count: 1,149
A funny thing happened to the economy on its way to recession: It’s taken a detour.