May 18, 2008

The Definition Of Affordable Seems Flexible In California

The Marin Independent Journal reports from California. “A crumbling Marin housing market is booming business for Coldwell Banker broker George DeSalvo. The veteran agent deals in real estate owned, or REO, properties that have gone through foreclosure and into bank ownership. DeSalvo described today’s market as the worst he’s seen. ‘I think this has close enough parity to foreclosures that took place during the Depression,’ said DeSalvo, a Novato resident who works out of Greenbrae.”

“DeSalvo said REO listings make up 21 of his 27 deals this year with more than a dozen on the way, compared with five REO homes during the first half of 2007.”

“Noting high interest rates and low prices created the early 1980s slowdown, DeSalvo said, ‘Now the rates are lower and prices just got too high, and it was too easy to borrow money. It’s a combination of everybody.’”

“For the first quarter of 2008, 314 homes and condominiums in Marin faced a notice of default, the first step in the foreclosure process. That represented a jump of 166 percent compared with 118 properties during the same period in 2007, according to ForeclosureRadar.com.”

“County foreclosure sales in April nearly doubled the previous month’s sales.”

“Edward Segal, CEO of the Marin Association of Realtors, said he has seen ‘a big spike’ in member requests for workshops on foreclosures, short sales and REOs over the past six months. One such session last month was standing-room only.”

“‘We’re probably a microcosm for what’s happening across the country,’ he said. ‘When it comes to agents becoming aware of certain transactions that weren’t on the horizon before, this is an example of that.’”

“Realtor Vince Gramalia in San Rafael, has practiced real estate in Marin for more than 30 years but spends about 75 percent of his time dealing with REO properties these days.”

“‘Being in the business for a while, I was aware of it since the early ’70s,’ he said. “We went through a couple phases like this, and we saw this coming.’”

“DeSalvo keeps in contact with other REO agents across the state and nation and described his workload as a tiny fraction of others’ work, including a Santa Rosa agent with 200 listings and a Las Vegas agent with 800.”

“DeSalvo said about 40 percent of his listings are occupied by tenants, many of whom learn of their rental’s default when he appears on their doorstep. He also sees a lot of fraud in San Rafael’s Canal area, with prospective buyers duped into signing papers they shouldn’t have.”

“DeSalvo sees a silver lining for all involved. ‘Potential buyers can get a very good deal,’ he said. ‘The sellers getting foreclosed should not have been able to buy in the last three years. They have an opportunity to move on with their lives and learn.’”

The Mercury News. “Should you be concerned if your home value is dipping? Is this really a good time to buy a house? How do you avoid losing a home? And what the heck does ‘affordable’ really mean in this market?”

“‘Housing prices look so good right now that you’re tempted to jump in,’ said perspective first-time home buyer Linda Durham. ‘But you don’t want to end up like the people who have lost their homes and helped drive the market down.’”

“Durham, like others considering dipping a toe in what is a shark-infested housing market, is trying to arm herself with as much information as possible to avoid getting in over her head.”

“About 20 people such as her attended an affordable housing seminar in San Jose on Saturday trying to get clear answers from experts. The event was planned as part of Affordable Housing Week.”

“‘With the housing market being like it is, we think basic education is important,’ said Assemblyman Jim Beall, San Jose, whose office helped organize the event. ‘People just don’t have a dime to spare.’”

“The definition of affordable in Silicon Valley sometimes seems flexible. An affordable housing project built in San Jose by the non-profit Neighborhood Housing Services Silicon Valley started selling condos at $535,000 and now offered at $450,000. That’s still out of reach for some.”

“At the seminar, one woman, who declined to give her name because she works for a mortgage broker, asked if she should tell her lender that she may be laid off. Sitting two rows in front of her, Haileyessus Tessema, of San Jose, wondered if it is a good idea to buy a foreclosed home.”

“Yi Chong Hun, of Los Gatos, doesn’t want to take advantage of the misfortune of others, but the housing bust has put some new condos closer to his price range.”

“‘It makes you kind of nervous,’ he said. ‘But then you also get nervous about buying now - what if the market goes down a bit further?’”

“‘If you can afford it, you can do it,’ said Speaker Miguel Palma, a San Jose CPA, adding that it is still better for some people to rent rather than go into debt. The most important thing, he said, is to talk to a professional who doesn’t work for a mortgage broker or real estate agent.”

The LA Times. “California’s monthly unemployment rate held steady at 6.2% in April, but experts warned that the state’s joblessness could worsen if consumers kept a tight hold on their spending.”

“One economist likened the current calm to the eye of a storm. ‘Hurricanes come in two waves as part of a big circle,’ said Christopher Thornberg, a principal at Beacon Economics. ‘On the front end were housing and financial problems, and on the back end is consumer spending.’”

“‘Home values are falling, mutual funds are losing value, the job market is weak, inflation is eating up increases in incomes. All of that adds up to a grim situation for the consumer,’ he said.”

“April saw moderate growth in government jobs. But the bump may be short-lived, warned Stephen Levy, director of the Center for the Continuing Study of the California Economy in Palo Alto.”

“‘Presumably, we’re coming up on the time when they will disappear,’ Levy said, noting that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is calling for deep spending cuts to fill a projected $15.2-billion hole in next year’s state budget.”

“‘The only worry I have is it seems like companies are shying away from adding to their payrolls,’ said Esmael Adibi, an economist at Chapman University in Orange. Employers, he said, ‘are worried about recession, and everybody is kind of in a holding pattern.’”

“Consumer spending is a concern, especially falling demand for big-ticket items such as refrigerators and television sets, said Ross DeVol, the director of regional economics at the Milken Institute in Santa Monica. ‘If you don’t need to buy a new house, you don’t need new furniture.’”

The Merced Sun Star. “The Central Valley’s depressed building industry has claimed another victim. After 21 years in business, the BMC West building materials store on West 16th Street in Merced is closing, the company announced Friday.”

“BMC West will shutter its Merced and Bakersfield locations within the next 60 days, said Mark Kailer, VP of BMC West’s parent company.”

“‘The difficult decision to close our facilities in Merced and Bakersfield is a necessity based on today’s challenging business environment and weakness in the housing markets in California’s Central Valley,’ said CEO Stanley M. Wilson. ‘Single-family housing permits in the Central Valley markets we serve have fallen sharply from 4,905 in the first quarter of 2007 to only 1,877 in the first quarter of 2008.’”

“BMHC started bracing for a slowdown in 2005 when construction activity soared to ‘extraordinary’ levels, said Kailer. But no one predicted the severity and length of the slump, he said. ‘The downturn has been much deeper than anyone expected it be,’ said Kailer.”

“News of BMC West’s closure comes six months after another Merced building supplier, 84 Lumber, shut its doors. When 84 Lumber’s Highway 59 location closed in December, the company said it would convert the building into a production plant.”

“Now that plan has been scrapped. ‘Due to the continuing decline in housing starts and demand we have made the decision to sell the property and not convert it into a manufacturing facility,’ said VP of Marketing and Public Relations Jeff Nobers.”

“In March, the state saw a 49 percent drop in new home sales compared with the same period a year ago, a slight improvement over the 57 percent sales drop California saw in February.”

“In Merced, sales of new homes dropped 80 percent in March compared with last year. In new subdivisions tracked by the California Building Industry Association, 15 homes were sold, compared with 75 sales in 2007.’

“The median price of a new home in Merced fell 8.6 percent in March to $309,990, compared with $339,000 last year.”

The Daily Press. “After California lost more jobs in construction than any other industry this March, the Victor Valley has been hit hard as residential construction jobs become scarce. People who took up residential construction in the area during the housing boom are trying to find commercial construction jobs or other lines of work, such as Rudy Cortez, owner of RTC Construction in Victorville.”

“‘There were big companies doing big residential construction projects in the High Desert and that completely stopped,’ said Cortez.”

“As of March approximately 15,000 construction jobs had been lost in San Bernardino and Riverside Counties since the same month in 2007, according to the California Employment Development Department.”

“Thurston Smith, Hesperia councilman and president of Smitty’s Concrete Pumping…said the trickle down effect of the housing slump also effects the supply side of the construction, as his business is going to Riverside for work.”

“‘This is a cyclical thing, usually over 10 years,’ said Smith. ‘This is about my fourth go around. I don’t know how long this one will last or how bad it will get.’”

“Smith said this downturn part of the cycle is always bad because construction workers are sometimes caught living beyond their means.”

“‘I told my guys in 2006 that this wouldn’t last and nobody believed me,’ said Smith. ‘When construction is good, workers go buy a new truck.’”

The Press Enterprise. “Those who bought Inland Southern California houses at the top of the market and have watched their property values plummet can expect lower property taxes this year, say assessors for Riverside and San Bernardino counties.”

“Starting this month, the assessors’ staffs will review 381,000 residential properties to determine if their assessed values should be lowered.”

“San Bernardino County Assessor Bill Postmus and Riverside County Assessor-County Clerk-Recorder Larry Ward said real estate values have dropped precipitously and they are resolved to revalue affected residential properties en masse rather than wait for homeowners’ requests.”

“Foreclosures in both counties have hit record levels and continue to escalate. ‘There are a lot of people in pain in San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Every amount of savings will help these people save their homes,’ Postmus said.”

“‘If you bought a home after January 1, 2004, we will be reviewing it and there is a pretty good chance you will get some sort of reduction,’ he said. The reasoning, he said, is because local property values have generally rolled back to 2004 levels.”

“Ward said his goal this year is to review the assessed values of 230,000 homes. By contrast, he said, last year 10,857 residential properties were reassessed.”

“Assessed home values adjusted this year in Riverside County on average will see a 20 percent cut, translating into a $1,200 annual property tax savings, said Riverside Assistant Assessor Frit Swain.”

“Postmus estimated that in San Bernardino County the average reduction will be about $75,000, producing a $900 property tax reduction.”

“The anxious homeowners include Stephen Ebo. Ebo said he and his wife paid $560,000 in July 2005 for their five-bedroom house in Sycamore Creek south of Corona, then refinanced it for $670,000 last August.”

“Since then, he said they have seen their home value shrink about $200,000 while they scrimp to make a monthly mortgage, insurance and property tax payment of $4,800. Ebo, who commutes 95 miles each way to his job in Chula Vista, also has been hit by the price of gasoline, which costs him about $400 a month.”

“Ebo said aims to have his property taxes reduced by $200 a month. ‘It would put a couple more meals on the table and more gas in the car,’ he said.”




RSS feed | Trackback URI

89 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-05-18 09:46:55

‘Noting high interest rates and low prices created the early 1980s slowdown, DeSalvo said, ‘Now the rates are lower and prices just got too high, and it was too easy to borrow money. It’s a combination of everybody.’

It’s always the same with every ‘immune’ market. Prices are firm, nothing’s wrong, then boom; REO city. Maybe the CAR economist should review her ‘gods country’ statement. And compare Merced; an 80% drop in new house sales with Stockton, where they are selling REOs at 2006 levels, because the prices are off 40% plus. Also, I doubt a $200/month tax saving for the last FB is going to keep him out of foreclosure. $4,800 per month for a house $200k underwater? He’ll walk.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 11:11:53

but, but…

Nobody walks in L.A.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 12:08:26

(with apologies to) Missing Persons (irony alert)

Look ahead as we pass, try and focus on it
I won’t be fooled by a cheap Realtor trick
It must have been just a cardboard cut out of a man
Top-forty sales cast off from a Realtor stand

Walkin’ in L.A.
Walkin’ in L.A., nobody walks in L.A.
Walkin’ in L.A.
Walkin’ in L.A., nobody walks in L.A.

I know I could’ve been a lame renter maybe
Or someone just socked away the Benjamins’, baby
C.A.R.t pusher or maybe someone groovy
One thing’s for sure, they aren’t starring in the movies.
‘Cause they’re walkin’ in L.A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT2terQDXyI

Comment by hoz
2008-05-18 14:49:44

Bought a condo in a dead man’s town
The first kick I took was just signing the loan
I got in a little payment jam
And planted seeds to pay for the plan

[chorus:]
Bought in West LA
Bought in West LA
Bought in West LA
Bought in West LA

Got myself a 44
went down to the liquor store
Said,”Put the money in the sack.”
there was a camera in the back.

[chorus]

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by vozworth
2008-05-18 19:32:03

Rollin down the street smokin Chula.
Sippin on squeezed grape juice.

El Laid back, San Diego style.
got my mind on my moneys,
and my moneys on my mind.

dont be a-scared to give a shout out to the hommies, yall.
cuz this is how we dooze it.

peace out cuz,

signed,
humble peasant working the fields.

apologies to Mr. Dee-O-Dubba-Gee

 
 
Comment by ashii
2008-05-18 14:51:56

Dude, missing persons is playing at the racetrack soon. Also, a bunch of other 80’s groups.

http://www.hollywoodpark.com/visit/fabulous_fridays.html

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by pismoclam
2008-05-18 19:55:15

Steely Dan is playing the San Luis Obispo Co Fair in Paso Robles this year! Can’t wait for those 70-80’s tunes.

 
 
Comment by Rich
2008-05-18 18:35:08

How about a little Freddie King “Goin’ Down”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHXKlNP4-Aw&feature=related

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-05-18 12:47:52

With regards to that last FB. How many property tax reductions can local gov’ts hand out before there’s no more room in the budget?

It seems these local gov’ts - faced with an unprecedented challenge - are merely buying some time with these early reductions. After all, they can’t reduce everyone’s taxes. I hope not every FB is counting on some miraculous reduction, but I bet many are.

 
Comment by Rich
2008-05-18 22:09:28

“with Stockton, where they are selling REOs at 2006 levels”

HAHAH, were way beyond that here in Stockton Ben.

Around the time I bought my primary residence here in 95′ there was an FHA sale around the corner for $120k, that same home now REO is listed at $114k and very rough (it wasn’t to bad in 95′). They won’t sell it at that price because you can search a bit and find much nicer homes on bigger lots for around $120k and bring them down to the $114 level.

BTW at the top of the market in 05′-06′ would have sold for $290k.

IMO that POS is hardly worth $90k based on it’s value as a rental and I am sure it will fall much lower as this collapse really hits bottom.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-05-18 11:07:05

“‘Housing prices look so good right now that you’re tempted to jump in,’ said perspective first-time home buyer Linda Durham. ‘But you don’t want to end up like the people who have lost their homes and helped drive the market down.’”

Just think of the current opportunity as akin to venturing out onto the beach in the path of an oncoming tsunami, and you may be able to avoid temptation.

 
Comment by alphonso bedoya
2008-05-18 11:17:37

Ten years to run.
Sad.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 11:18:11

Over Marin-ated Smug

“DeSalvo said REO listings make up 21 of his 27 deals this year with more than a dozen on the way, compared with five REO homes during the first half of 2007.”

“A crumbling Marin housing market is booming business for Coldwell Banker broker George DeSalvo. The veteran agent deals in real estate owned, or REO, properties that have gone through foreclosure and into bank ownership. DeSalvo described today’s market as the worst he’s seen. ‘I think this has close enough parity to foreclosures that took place during the Depression,’ said DeSalvo, a Novato resident who works out of Greenbrae.”

Comment by implosion
2008-05-18 17:08:00

Maybe a relative of Albert?

Comment by sfbayqt
2008-05-18 22:14:16

Oh, wow. I just caught that. Albert DeSalvo…the Boston strangler, right?

BayQT~

 
 
 
Comment by M Nair
2008-05-18 11:19:12

Went to Universal Citywalk last night and its almost empty…we live close by and once a month go to Universal City Citywalk last on fri or sat. Its very crowded even during SO CA winter months…But last night we went there at 8.30 pm and were there till 11 pm and no crowd at all…You can easily find empty tables at City food and can easily walk without brushing anyone…

Hard times have hit all I guess…

 
Comment by Chucky
2008-05-18 11:21:20

‘If you don’t need to buy a new house, you don’t need new furniture.’

You nailed pal. This summarizes the past seven years and the future seven years

 
Comment by Spykeeboi
2008-05-18 11:22:46

There was some concern that, at least in the short term, rents would rise due to a wave of foreclosure refugees. Around Hollywood, that does seem to be panning out: I’ve noticed “For Rent” signs popping up like mushrooms in a damp forest. And they often have price reductions right on the sign. Last week I saw a 2-bedroom advertised for $1650–which would pass for very affordable around here. The slowing economy is increasing vacancy rates–and thus lowering rents–much more quickly than was expected. In addition, as has been covered in the MM, immigration patterns have stared to reverse: some are returning to Mexico because housing-related jobs have dried up. And lastly, as is always the case in Tinsel Town, when times get tough, many recent arrivals just pack up and go back home to Indiana, etc…

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 11:32:29

If the Wasps aren’t exactly making it, the Hispanics are doing much worse, in El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los roches Del Río de Porciúncula.

But they can go home again, we don’t have that option…

 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-05-18 11:23:26

“Yi Chong Hun, of Los Gatos, doesn’t want to take advantage of the misfortune of others, but the housing bust has put some new condos closer to his price range.”

Taking advantage of others? Those morons bidding up cht boxes with the hope of selling to some other sucker at an even more inflated price down the road are the real villans and need to be held accountable. How does trying to reach an agreement with someone to buy their home for the most they can sell it for on that day, and therefor give them options, equate to taking advantage of someone? I know I’m certainly going to low ball in two years with the banks and losers desperate to sell, and I will be doing America a favor by promoting saving and affordable housing.

The truth, as most on here know, is that foreclosure is best for everyone involved. Even those left holding the note will learn valuable lessons so they dont make such stupid mistakes in the future and thus promote economic stability.

Comment by Happy Renter
2008-05-18 12:19:02

For many, losing a substantial amount of money on housing is a better education than a Harvard MBA.

I wish the government would see the light and not cater to self interested groups. They should not try to hinder foreclosures. It’s the right thing to do.

 
 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-05-18 11:24:58

“The definition of affordable in Silicon Valley sometimes seems flexible. An affordable housing project built in San Jose by the non-profit Neighborhood Housing Services Silicon Valley started selling condos at $535,000 and now offered at $450,000. That’s still out of reach for some.”

Toss a brick in the air and for a brief moment it may appear to float. Affordability might seem flexible, but it isn’t. Even now $450k is a very large amount of money within reach of a small percentage of the population. Those units might even go under $300k when things finally bottom out, but with the dollar in free fall much of the real price changes may remain hidden.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-05-18 11:28:57

… but with the dollar in free fall much of the real price changes may remain hidden.

False argument.

The incomes are denominated in the same currency as the house prices so the falling dollar has no effect.

Comment by Darrell in PHX
2008-05-18 12:16:50

Incorrect. The price drop in term of hard assets, such as food, fuel, and other necessities will be much larger.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-05-18 14:49:59

Are you claiming that the hundreds of thousands of dollars in less cost for RE equates with the few extra bucks spent on gas and food?

To be fair about inflation numbers, we gotta do what we accuse the govt of not doing, i.e. plug all the costs of living into the equation.. and that includes the cost of a house. The net effect when house deflation is added is deflation.

As far as currency exchange numbers i agree with Faster Pussycat .. the value of whatever things are denominated in a currency are affected equally by changes in that currency.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-05-18 11:32:17

“…but with the dollar in free fall much of the real price changes may remain hidden.”

If home prices are determined by local incomes, I can’t see this. On the other hand, if big investors (whether domestically or externally situated) backstop the market, the dollar could be a factor.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 11:47:47

Just a whiff of real estate is enough to give most everybody a gag reflex, nowadays…

It’s a skunky market and the closer you get, the more noxious the aroma.

 
Comment by vmaxer
2008-05-18 12:08:30

With the falling dollar making all the other monthly expenses greater, there’s less money available to service a mortgage, house prices will have to come down by an even greater amount to compensate. The old paycheck just doesn’t go as far as it used to.

Comment by Lisa
2008-05-18 13:12:41

“With the falling dollar making all the other monthly expenses greater, there’s less money available to service a mortgage, house prices will have to come down by an even greater amount to compensate.”

Let alone save 5%, 10%, 20% for a down payment.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Doctor Fartelstain
2008-05-18 18:57:56

Plus “Save” enough to enable you to have 80% of your former income after retirement (if ever) according to the financial “Experts.”
This country is so screwed. Corporate greed aided by both of our major slimmy political parties has gone a long way towards destroying the middle class. We are giving away our tech ability to areas of the world that really, really don’t like us very much. Now we make nothing of added value to justify this lastest free ride. Widget making is gone, therefor we are overwhelmed in the media by advise from the “Experts” regarding health, finances, etc. Nothing of real value but just “churn.”

If corporate America could obtain the franchise rights to the H-Bomb from D.C., they would be on the market in a heart beat to Iran, Cuba, North Korea, Chad, Bermuda and every 8th world piece of crap, if a selected few could make a buck.

We are so doomed. The 2008 “Presidential Shill” will win the “Booby Prize” One term only. Gebus could not fix the mess, we are in. Then on November 5th before the polls close, the media can resort to inane comments regarding 2012 for the following four years.

 
Comment by implosion
2008-05-18 19:57:31

Bermuda?

 
Comment by implosion
2008-05-18 20:06:13

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/
0,8599,1739535,00.html

If you were a terrorist looking for weapons-grade nuclear material in America, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory might be a good place to start. At the core of the nuclear-weapons research facility about an hour’s drive from San Francisco stands the “Superblock,” a collection of buildings surrounded by multi-story steel-mesh fencing, a no-man’s-land, electronic security gear, armed guards and cables to prevent a helicopter landing on the roof. These defenses are in place largely to protect Building 332, a repository for roughly 2,000 pounds of deadly plutonium and volatile, weapons-grade uranium — enough fissile material to build at least 300 nuclear weapons. But a recent simulated terror attack tested those defenses, and sources tell TIME that the results were not reassuring. …

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-05-18 16:43:26

Why do people directly connect inflation with currency exchange rates?

The dollar falls only relative to some other currency.
This means that a foreigner’s currency can purchase more of whatever is denominated in dollars.
Conversely, if the dollar “rises”, relatively speaking, that foreign currency buys less dollar-demoninated stuff.

The falling dollar has no direct effect on what a dollar can buy unless it is trying to buy something that is denominated in the foreign currency.
—-
For example:
A loaf of bread at the local bakery costs you 2 dollars. You make 2 dollars per hour. One hour of labor can be traded for a loaf of bread.

Now, American banks screw up and the credit rating of the USA deteriorates.. and the dollar’s value falls relative to a country/currency who’s credit rating is strong.

This has no efffect on how much a loaf of bread costs. It still costs 2 dollars and earning 2 dollars still requires an hour of labor.
But you will notice that exchanging dollars for a foreign loaf of bread requires more dollars .. because the foreign exchange rate changed.. the dollars is worth less when it attempts to purchase foreign goods..

…someone please tell me where my thinking is faulty…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Sailor
2008-05-18 18:57:35

It’s not really faulty thinking. But you left out the fact that almost everything sold in america in one way or another (parts, ingrediance, labor, etc…) is imported. When the dollar falls all those imports cost more and as always those costs are passed down the line to the end consumer.

So look at it like this, that 2.00 loaf of bread is made with imported wheat. It is now a 2.20 for the same loaf of bread you bought for 2.00 a week ago. You still only make 2.00 an hour but those 2 dollars are worth less. Even if the bread is totaly made in America it still costs more to get it to the market. This consumer economy has a long way to go before any kind of recovery happens. The government, wall street, media you name it can and do spin the numbers for a political or monitary edvantage. Knowone who gets payed to talk about this stough really cares as long as they get thier next check.

All us J6P who just get by with less and less every month will need to step up and make something happen. Unfortunatley too many people have been drinking the cool aid for way too long and would die without it. I just hope something does change in the future, before my son (3 1/2) has to deal with this idiocy.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-05-18 20:19:52

You’ve got the farm belt Demoncrats and wacko sierra club idiots causing the price of corn-wheat-soy beans to go up as they politicize the ethanol market with subsidies. Your bread,beef, pork all go up as well.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-05-18 22:50:24

Sailor … but only those products which we purchase that come from “superior” currency-countries add to our costs. Goods bought from countries/currencies that are pegged to the dollar or are weakening relative to the dollar do not add cost.

Granted, whatever we import from the EU (although nothing comes immediately to mind) has cost us more lately. These purchases do raise our cost of living. But it’s still not a measure of “inflation”.
The word inflation has a definition. It has to do with an oversupply of dollars as compared to the country’s wealth. Print dollars without creating new wealth and every dollar is worth less = inflation.
Destroy dollars (default on a mortgage) or create new wealth (strike the Mother Load) and the effect is deflationary.

Why is it that we experience inflation (or deflation) whether the dollar is rising or falling relative to other currencies?
Because currency exchange rates and inflation/deflation are two different things. I’m not claiming that a country’s inflation and their currency exchange rates have no relationship.. they certainly do.. but they are not different words for the same thing.
One example we’ll soon see is a weak dollar makes us a more competitive exporter.. which ultimately strengthens the dollar.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-05-18 11:37:25

I wonder if they lift the deed restrictions when market price falls below the “affordable housing” price. Just another example of how uninformed and dangerous “public interest” organizations that say they promote affordable housing and also want to slow foreclosures really are. It’s ppl’s choice not to work, but I beg them to refrain from joining some misguided public interest to try to make their life meaningful or express opinions based on their viewing of daytime TV. It just causes more harm.

 
 
Comment by Jeff
2008-05-18 11:33:17

“Ebo, who commutes 95 miles each way to his job in Chula Vista, also has been hit by the price of gasoline, which costs him about $400 a month.”

Who the HELL commutes 95 miles each way to work in Southern CA!?!? Is that even possible!? OMFG we’ve officially found a F’ing moron. What kind of life is THAT!? And talk about bad for the environment. Here’s an idea: GET A HOUSE IN CHULA VISTA!! They’re a dime a dozen there & you’ll have 4 extra hours a DAY to use doing something else other than driving! Fool.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-05-18 12:12:21

A lot of people in SoCal make silly commutes like that - although usually about 60 miles is most people’s limit. And they do this for *years*. Accounting for the ludicrous traffic problems, they probably blow 3 hours per day on average sitting in their cars. That’s 15 hours per week, or a little over one solid month per year, even assuming 24 hour days.

Pure insanity.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 12:27:25

They will also be the very first victim’s of “Norton’s Law”*

*The cost of gas in getting to & from work exceeds the net take-home pay.

At that point they will be lost in space.

Danger, Will Robinson!

 
Comment by Blackbox
2008-05-18 13:19:45

haha, pretty funny. This idiot bought a house in the boonies to work in the boonies. That sentence in itself is nothing unusual, and in fact a great idea and opportunity, but in this case, the funny and stupid part are that work and home are in the boonies, but not in the same county! Boonies are 90 miles apart from each other thru some of the worst FWYs in both counties. haha, good one sparky!

 
Comment by Wickedheart
2008-05-18 13:31:14

Oh, I betcha he spends more than 3 hours a day in his car. Have you experienced traffic in the north county of San Diego lately? Worse than LA. And with all the growth in Chula Vista they now have a pretty ugly traffic problem too.

 
Comment by Mark
2008-05-18 13:57:57

‘A lot of people in SoCal make silly commutes like that ”
Yeah,my uncle just retired ,and he commuted from Belmont Shores to his job at Van Nuys airport for over 20 years.I thought he was crazy.

 
Comment by NotInMontana
2008-05-18 15:50:33

the trouble with “all the jobs there” is that they are so spread out. I mean, really spread out. So you don’t know where your next job might be. Do you sell and move every time? I can easily see how this happened. Knew a guy who bought one of the early condos in Agora and worked in OC. I thought it was crazy but he was sales and that’s where his career took him.

 
 
Comment by Houstonstan
2008-05-18 13:02:43

Yeh, just wait until an unforseen medical emergency happens like a lightening strike in his testicles or accidently sitting on a JT in the dark and then he’s screwed. No more commutes for him.

 
Comment by Itsabouttime
2008-05-18 13:16:08

Maybe he drives around in circles looking for parking? Even at home?

IAT

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-18 14:31:19

My mother has had a similar commute to work for almost 20 years: Fullerton to Santa Monica. She tried moving to west LA a few years ago and moved back to Fullerton within a year because of the crime and traffic. She claims she could never find similar work at her pay scale anywhere in the OC. She just had back surgery for major spine problems, likely from sitting in her car for so many hours every day.

I think now that she just turned 60 and with the cost of gas going up and housing going down, she is finally seeing the light and taking an early retirement.

She might be an idiot, but I still love her.

Comment by Itsabouttime
2008-05-18 15:09:32

I was only joking. Sorry her back is not well.

IAT

 
 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2008-05-18 15:16:02

Isn’t 95 miles approximately the distance from Antioch, Brentwood to San Francisco?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-05-18 15:53:08

It’s about 60 miles one way.

I’ve know people who drive from Sacramento to San Francisco, which is close to 90 miles one way.

I did that type of commute. I drove from Millbrae to Livermore for a year (close to 50 miles one way) and was going against commute traffic. This took an hour one way. Like I said, I lasted a year and threw in the towel. I don’t know how people can drive the distance and put up with the traffic.

Comment by GrittyToasterWaffleGuy
2008-05-19 05:45:39

For about 6 months I commuted from Walnut Creek to Palo Alto. Two days a week I would BART to Millbrae and transfer to CalTrain for the trip down the peninsula. About 2 hours each way, but I could work/sleep on the trains. The other three days I did a ~100 mile triangle: Walnut Creek to Palo Alto, then Palo Alto to Santa Clara (for my last semester and a half of law school), and finally home at about 10:30.

Not remotely fun. The ex’s insistence on moving to Walnut Creek from Castro Valley despite my protests about my pending increased commute hell was certainly one of the proverbial final nails.

Much happier about my current ~15 minute commute from Mission Valley to Carmel Valley. 3 miles of semislow and go on the 805 is nothing compared to the Sunol Grade at 6:30 AM and the Bayshore Freeway between Palo Alto and Santa Clara at 5 PM.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-05-18 16:06:29

Antioch to the City is 45 miles. Brentwood is a bit farther out. Taking the shortest road means driving CA-4 which is rough. That is extreme, but in the Valley I have known engineers who commuted from Sacto and Auburn for years.

 
 
Comment by INLAND EMPIRE
2008-05-18 18:40:52

Half the people at my job commute at least 25-40 miles one way. I work in Colton and even those who live in Ontario or Rancho Cucamongo have about a 20 mile drive. We have a lot of workers that live in Hesperia, Victorville, Wrightwood and Big Bear and don’t care about the drive. Most of these people like the mountain or purchase back back in the 80’s now they will not even think of moving . Then my personal favorite he lives in San Diego but goes home only on the weekend since he was transfered to Colton he use to work in our Long Beach yard when he commuted daily..

 
 
Comment by simiwatch
2008-05-18 11:39:04

Spoke to a construction contractor who does high end construction. These projects are usually bid 9-10 months out, then the work starts. These are really big one off houses.

Here is what this person told me:
Bidding on a lot of jobs but not getting any contracts, just a lot of small jobs.

This person held a “come to Jesus” meeting with his crew: “You should start thinking about car pooling to the job site. No pay raises. Watch your cell phone call etc. Those that want to stay employed need to prove that they want to keep their job.” He is already drawing up the lay off list.

I think we still have a long way to go!

Comment by pismoclam
2008-05-18 20:26:46

How about Mariposa to Menlo Park? Won the contest last year by the Herald.

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2008-05-18 12:04:08

I live in Marin, have been here for the last 12 years, and this county is Smug Central. This is huge, huge for the Marin IJ to run, which up until now has insisted that the RE market is appropriately priced to reflect our “fabulous quality of life” and the superior wealth of its residents.

Seriously, “owning” an $800K+ house here is the norm. New cars in the driveway. Kids in private school. Everyone is now talking about cutting back right & left, which makes me think some of this spending has been debt fueled, rather than actual income.

Comment by Tim
2008-05-18 12:07:38

Unless the average household income is greater than $250k per year in the area. There could be no other conclusion.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 12:13:28

Gums is the new Smug, in Marin County.

 
Comment by crypot
2008-05-18 12:27:10

Interesting. I have a relation that lives in Marin who bought last year. He is smug. I saw him recently and his smugness was tainted with bitterness. I think they can make their payments, but they are going to be so underwater. I wonder if they’ll eventually walk or tough it out for the sake of “pride”. A part of me feels bad for them, and another part can’t believe the stupidity of purchasing in the last two years. I mean this was after the warning flare of San Diego’s bust was in full swing.

Comment by sfbayqt
2008-05-18 14:27:56

I think it’s because some people just can’t help themselves. The desire to live in Marin County trumped common sense, so at the first sign of ANY drop in prices, they thought they were “in like Flynn”.

Stupid or not, many people go with the opinion that matches what they are looking for, instead of checking facts.

BayQT~

Comment by Itsabouttime
2008-05-18 14:53:24

Sfbayqt,

From one bay area resident to another, you are quite correct. The last few years my extended family looked on in wonder when I did not buy. Now that things have turned around, have they patted me on the back for my keeping my head and not going in for the toxic mortgages and house poverty? Have they come to understand that maybe I have an insight that is worth at least considering? Have they taken my up on my suggestion that they look at sources outside the MSM like Ben’s blog? Of course not. They now ask, “Hey, prices have come down. Isn’t it about time you go ahead and buy?” I tell them prices have only begun to decline, there’ll be a few dead cat bounces on the way down, buying a foreclosure is likely to buy into a neighborhood that is poised to have dozens of foreclosures and thus put me underwater almost immediately, and more. But, it makes no difference.

They have an idea in their head or, well, somewhere on their person. Thus, facts are not really relevant.

Oh well.
IAT

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by sfbayqt
2008-05-18 15:19:46

The problem is that they are stuck in that groove, like a needle on a scratched record. Most of us have grown up with the idea that being a successful and prosperous adult meant that you eventually bought a house. It meant you had “arrived”.

Of course, we all know that that idea made since back when all the fundamentals lined up. But when they don’t (and they haven’t in MANY years now), some people just can’t find their way out of that traditional groove…no matter WHAT real life, in-your-face situations of friends, co-workers, acquaintances and nation-wide FACTS tell them. And shame on them all for now being free-thinkers.

Sure, it’s nice to go to someone’s house and enjoy the outdoor barbecue, lounge under a shade tree in their huge back yard, and enjoy their spacious kitchen while we watch the Superbowl on the 60″ flat and chat about world issues. BUT the reality is that we’ve learned (*I’ve* learned) that many are just faking the funk, i.e., if it wasn’t for their HELOC and credit cards, they may not have any of that. Mind you, I’m NOT saying that all who have these things are drowning. It’s just that the light has truly gotten brighter for me and I’ve realized what is really going on….a lot of smoke and mirrors.

I spent 4 days in New York a week ago visiting my daughter. How did I pay for the trip? Cash…airfare, hotel, Metro, and miscellaneous spending…cash. Not many people do that anymore, or CAN do that. But it certainly feels good to be able to and not feel broke when I return home.

I say keep doing what you’re doing. You have a lot of support here. :-)

BayQT~

 
Comment by Itsabouttime
2008-05-18 15:43:35

Yes, the support–factual info and cheers at resisting–is great. I have no plans to change my strategy. Just wish acquaintances and family would learn from what they’ve seen of the debacle rather than keep digging themselves (and trying to push others) deeper into danger.

But, what can you do?

IAT

 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-05-18 16:23:59

But, what can you do?

People may never change their views, but their ways change when their lives change. Jobs come and go, kids and divorce both happen, and there are always health issues to consider. When a place to live no longer serves, they move along. Until then therapy may not be any use, but it might help in the future if it is well meant and offers the possibility of finding hope in change.

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-18 14:53:51

‘A part of me feels bad for them, and another part can’t believe the stupidity of purchasing in the last two years.’

And yet another part of you is giggling merrily and rolling your collective eyes in a snarky and comical fashion, right?

 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2008-05-18 15:18:32

Yes, it’s one thing to buy a house at the top of the bubble. It’s another thing to buy a house in California at the top of the bubble. It’s in a league of its own to buy a house in Marin County at the top of the bubble.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 15:32:30

Marin-schino Cherry on the top, top?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-05-18 16:26:37

“The want of a thing is perplexing enough, but the possession of it is intolerable.”
–John Vanbrugh

Comment by deeogee
2008-05-18 19:58:12

“The want of a thing is perplexing enough, but the possession of it is intolerable.”
–John Vanbrugh

perfect visual of the ‘fickle’ heart of man.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by EastBayRenter
2008-05-18 20:38:39

Danville/Alamo/San Ramon is the same way! All the people here are smug beyond belief! The lowest priced house over 2,000 sq. ft. is $800k. How do they afford it? My husband and I make very good salaries and we would never pay these prices! Plus how are they coming up with the down payment?

Comment by laughing boy
2008-05-19 07:27:07

What’s a “down payment”?

Comment by HellBoy
2008-05-19 10:43:09

If people actually had to come up with the down payments the houses wouldn’t be $8ook. Fannie and Freddie are currently lowering down payments in hard hit areas as we speak, go figure?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by uptick
2008-05-18 12:32:32

‘But then you also get nervous about buying now - what if the market goes down a bit further?’”

A bit??!!! People will stop thinking about buying when realize that if they buy a house, very, very hard to re-sell. Except at a loss of at least closing cost. moving cost etc. A.K.A “real estate is always a bad investment” mentality. That is the bottom.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 12:41:33

When John Steinbeck was driving around California chronicling the plight of Arkies & Okies in the mid 1930’s, and wrote Grapes of Wrath based upon what he saw, it was thought he had wildly over-stated the conditions there, and when authorities sought to confirm his claims, they found if anything, he had under-stated how bad it really was…

I suspect things are far worse in HELOCalifornia, than we are lead to believe.

Comment by uptick
2008-05-18 14:44:52

True. How many people in California did NOT HELOC? Minority.

Comment by are they crazy
2008-05-18 17:37:55

I told daughter & SIL that I bet landlords had HELOCed our rental and they said no way - not that type of folks. Guess what - they called to say they’re going to have to put it on the market as a short sale and did we want to buy. Moved in 12/05 and it was for sale for $420K. Same house up the street, updated & with pool just sold for $320K. We’re looking for a new rental. Bigger house w/pool for same rent. I just knew it was going to happen. So glad I talked them out of buying this sucker.

Comment by FP
2008-05-18 18:42:59

I know that several neighbors recently HELOC’d. One neighbor did tons of work in their house and bought two new cars. One across the street also started to redo the house ( working on two months now) and bought two new high end German cars (you know what I mean). And unfortunately, bot are very smug.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by laughing boy
2008-05-19 07:34:54

Last year, our landlord wanted to sell the building we’re in. He offered us a “deal” which wasn’t much of a deal because his price was $100K over the list price. He knows my job and my income and was shocked I didn’t want to take advantage of such a wonderful opportunity. But ANYWAY, the point is… wait, what was my point?… oh yeah…

It listed for either 1.1 or 1.2 mil. Nobody came to see it. They took it off the market after 3 months (they bought long ago and have tremendous equity built in, so it wasn’t a must sell).

Now I look on zillow and see it’s est value is about $850k. Still overpriced, but that’s a pretty healthy drop. Which of course isn’t supposed to be the case in San Francisco - which is where I live - because “it’s different here”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-18 16:09:10

IMO, no HELOC or cash-outs should be for more than 20% LTV. No full refis for >80% LTV.

Only certified appraisers who are independent and answerable to a state regulatory authority should be hired.

ARMs, no-docs, and 0% down should be outlawed in their entirety.

And while I’m on a roll, the only constitutional amendment I support is for Congress to have its salary indexed to the CPI so that it is in line with social security and veterans benefits.

Comment by reuven
2008-05-18 16:28:28

They’ll be too busy saving california from gay marriage to worry about fraudsters robbing trillions from banks!

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-18 12:53:36

Posthumous Savings

“Foreclosures in both counties have hit record levels and continue to escalate. ‘There are a lot of people in pain in San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Every amount of savings will help these people save their homes,’ Postmus said.”

 
Comment by MD_Renter
2008-05-18 13:02:46

Okay, so it doesn’t make sense to buy and it’s risky to rent a decent house because you might end up out on the street if the place goes into default. So… what to do?

Right now, we’re in an apartment which, at least, has the advantage that it’s managed by a company and it’s not likely to suddently go into foreclosure. It’s getting old though. We’re looking to rent a SFH, but I’m worried about all of the foreclosure stories of renters getting tossed out.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-05-18 15:06:35

i don’t see how being managed by a company has any effect on what sort of trouble the property owners may or may not get themselves into..

It’s becoming as much of a renter’s market as it is a buyer’s market. A person who’s avoided the mania and has preserved good credit is at a distinct advantage. I wouldn’t hesitate to “interview” a prospective landlord and determine his suitability.. of course a little diplomacy will go a long way.

And an attorney’s advice on lease terms that protect you in the event of LL default might also be comforting. There’s no law against negotiating a lease, afaik.

 
 
Comment by Anthony
2008-05-18 14:47:03

“We went through a couple phases like this, and we saw this coming.”

I doubt it. Everyone now loves to proclaim they saw this coming back in 2005, but that is mere lip service. I’d bet my house (if I had one) that this RealWhore was telling stupid clients “buy now or be priced out forever!” a couple of years ago. Why can’t people just admit they were dead wrong.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-18 16:48:22

I knew there would be some degree of housing deflation ever since I started househunting in 2003, so I waited. I just never knew it would go up so high, so fast, and bring the entire economy down with it once the bubble popped.

Not until I started reading blogs like this last year, anyway. If I were psychic, I would have bought a cheap crapbox in ‘03, sold it for twice the price in ‘06, and rented.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2008-05-18 17:14:22

The definition of affordable in Silicon Valley sometimes seems flexible. An affordable housing project built in San Jose by the non-profit Neighborhood Housing Services Silicon Valley started selling condos at $535,000 and now offered at $450,000. That’s still out of reach for some.”

No $h!t Sherlock, what gave you your first clue. Out of reach for most. Major reason we left CA and Bay area.

 
Comment by chris_415
2008-05-18 18:08:39

“Ebo, who commutes 95 miles each way to his job in Chula Vista”

Silly Ebo - there are all kinds of flipper havens in San Diego county that are much closer to your work - you don’t have to drive all the way to Corona! :-)

 
Comment by Triangle Gal
2008-05-18 20:13:48

My friend in Somerville MA bought a condo in 2002. It’s triple decker townhouse and she was the first in. She had 50% down payment and her mortgage is very affordable for her now. She has no intention of moving for the next 30 years. She’s on the first floor, has a huge established garden, she’s solid.

Two couples bought the other two units after her for higher prices than her.

Well they are now in the pregnancy phase and last fall both couples bought houses and put their units up for sale within six months of each other. One couple waited two months and then took in the renters.

The other couple had 6-7 months of open houses that not one person came to. They are now going into the rental business.

My friend asked the woman who has been handling the condo association business for a full acounting for the past few years.

Not surprisingly my friend has been met with resitence.

 
Comment by Darrell in PHX
2008-05-18 21:44:24

This is SOOOOO pop culture now.

Law and Order had a jurror throw a case. Bought off by the accused for $50K. “I have an interest only mortage. Everything was fine until the rates went up. They were going to foreclose next month.”

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post