Naive Investors Jumped At A Chance To Make Easy Money
The Boston Globe reports from Massachusetts. “Only about 64 percent of those born in Massachusetts still live in the state, according to a report by Northeastern University’s Center for Labor Market Studies. ‘The problem is that we just can’t get people to come to Massachusetts as much as they want to leave,’ said Andrew Sum, author of the report. ‘We need to start asking what we can do to make Massachusetts a more desirable place to live, why people don’t want to come here to live.’”
“Between 2000 and 2007, more than 300,000 residents - about 5 percent of the state’s population, left Massachusetts. Those who left Massachusetts say they are repelled by the cold, the high price of housing, the taxes - in essence, everything.”
“Kevin and Meg Buckingham wanted to raise their children near family and friends in Massachusetts, but they couldn’t afford to stay. Both had good jobs…but the house they wanted was out of reach.”
“Last year, the couple moved to Knightdale, N.C., where they built a 2,000 square foot, four-bedroom house for $171,000. ‘There was no way we could ever do that in Massachusetts; the only thing we could find with the same amenities and the same room was for more than $1 million in Newton,’ Meg Buckingham said.”
“Cindy Homer grew up in East Boston (and) went to Anna Maria College in Paxton. The 55-year-old mother of three now lives in a 2,500 square foot home in New Mexico for which she paid $160,000.”
“‘I love the people and the scenery and the seasons and the ocean, food, and cultural activities in Massachusetts,’ Homer said. ‘You have everything there that anyone could possibly want, but the cost of living is outrageous.’”
The Boston Herald from Massachusetts. “In a sign of the times, the owners of some grand Nantucket estates are knocking millions off their price tags in a bid to lure buyers.”
“Former Tyco International CEO Dennis Kozlowski’s seaside retreat, which was being marketed at one point for nearly $20 million, was recently put back on the market. The new price: $16.4 million. Kozlowski is now serving time in federal prison for fraud related to looting millions from Tyco.”
“‘That is a huge price reduction,’ said Mary Taaffe of Windwalker Real Estate. ‘Let’s put it this way: Two years ago, at that price, that property would have gone into a serious bidding war.’”
“The long-awaited redevelopment of the landmark Anthony’s Pier 4 site into waterfront condos, shops and offices has been placed on hold.
“Retail development king Stephen Karp contends the timing is still not right for launching construction of his Pier 4 redevelopment.”
“‘The market obviously isn’t there for high-end condos right now,’ Karp said. ‘You don’t want to outthink the economy.’”
“During the frenzied days of no-down-payment loans and cursory credit checks in the early 2000s, two out-of-state lenders gave more than $1 million in mortgages to a Dorchester woman who lives in public housing and barely speaks English, the Herald has learned.”
“The loans, originated by New Jersey-based Equity One Inc. and the now-defunct Meritage Mortgage Corp., foreclosed last year, making 243-245 Washington St. and 16 Dacia St. among the 233 foreclosures to hit Dorchester in 2007, city and land records show.”
“The foreclosures have also left the borrower, Angela M. Torres, who speaks only Spanish, in financial ruin. ‘I have nothing,’ Torres told the Herald in Spanish last week. ‘I don’t have a business. I don’t have a car. I don’t have a house. I don’t have anything.’”
The Taunton Daily Gazette from Massachusetts. “Mary Ellen Rochette, executive director of the non-profit Pro-Home Inc., says she and her staff of three are struggling to keep up with an influx of residential owners desperate to stave off the threat of foreclosure.”
“Foreclosure petitions from March to April on single-family homes in the Silver City jumped from 16 to 23. For condos, the number of recorded petitions went from three to six, and for multi-family homes (including both two and three-family units) petitions increased from 8 to 13, according to TWG.”
“Alan Pasnik, data analyst for The Warren Group, said the prognosis isn’t bright for a resolution to the housing market’s foreclosure crisis any time soon. ‘I think it will go at least into the middle of next year,’ Pasnik said. ‘We’re nowhere near the end of this. It’s not pretty.’”
“Rochette said her office has been getting many more calls, during the last six months especially, from people who bought multi-family homes as an investment and are now facing foreclosure proceedings.”
“Those buildings, not unlike single-family homes and condominiums, are worth less now than when they were bought four or five years ago. As a result, Rochette said, banks will often turn down an application for refinancing if an owner is ‘upside down,’ or owing more money than the building is worth.”
“Paradoxically, the downturn in the real estate market and lower prices are attracting more first-time home buyers looking for good deals, some of whom have likely availed themselves of Pro-Home’s free seminars.”
“And that, Rochette said, has led to an increase of tenant turnover and left landlords scrambling to fill vacancies. Another troubling aspect of multi-family foreclosure is that tenants will often find themselves caught in the middle and forced to look for new housing when a landlord surrenders an apartment house to a bank or mortgage company.”
“Despite that fact, Rochette said there is not yet a shortage of available apartments in the city.”
The Telegram from Massachusettes. “At the end of April, some 4,000 renters in the city received postcards depicting a classroom blackboard with the phrase, ‘I will never rent again,’ repeated line after line, as in an antiquated schoolhouse form of discipline.”
“Those cards kicked off the initial marketing for the School House Lofts, a condominium project that renovated the former Adams Street School into 28 units.”
“And while the charm and character of exposed wood and brick, large windows and competitive prices have brought steady sales to places like Kettle Brook Lofts and Fremont Lofts, not all have fared as well.”
“The highly anticipated renovation of the former Crompton & Knowles building at 21 Illinois St. into 37 loft-style units garnered only eight buyers. Information provided by The Warren Group shows that in the first quarter of 2008, some 70 condominium units were sold. That is down nearly 50 percent from the 137 sold in the same quarter of 2007.”
“But that trend hasn’t kept developers from pushing ahead with condo projects.”
“The ballooning inventory is one part of the challenge for sellers. That could be compounded by the dropping price of single-family homes, which could siphon off some prospective buyers who could not afford a house a year ago.”
“Timothy M. Warren Jr., CEO of The Warren Group, said the median price for a single family home is inching closer to that of a condominium.”
“‘They may be looking for that maintenance-free and problem-free existence. But it must be worrisome to developers who are trying to make some decisions on how marketable they are. The danger is that they could sit on the market for a while and get stale,’ Warren said.”
The Star Ledger from New Jersey. “In the past two years, as Newark’s housing bubble experienced a messy burst, 11 of the 57 houses on the block have gone into foreclosure. This block is the hardest hit in the county, according to preliminary data from the Rutgers University Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy, which is in the midst of a detailed study of Essex County foreclosures.
The Star-Ledger spent a month studying Norwood Street, examining public records on the 11 foreclosures, analyzing eight years worth of real estate transactions and interviewing dozens of the people involved. What it found on this short, one-way block in Newark’s Vailsburg section is characteristic of what happened across urban New Jersey and the nation.”
“Two of the foreclosures were the result of alleged flipping schemes, where houses were bought at low prices and then quickly resold without significant improvements for nearly twice their original value to unwitting buyers; another foreclosure came from a high-pressure predatory loan operation.”
“But mostly there was greed: In a housing market overheated by the easy availability of subprime loans, where home prices were increasing nearly 50 percent a year, inexperienced and fiscally naive investors — many of whom were depending on rental income to pay their mortgages — jumped at a chance to make easy money.”
“One of the houses caught fire twice in March, set aflame by squatters shortly after the tenants were evicted. Another has become a drug house, with junkies freely wandering through an open back door. Several others have been stripped by scrap-metal scavengers, making them uninhabitable without rehabilitation.”
“‘I don’t care where you go in this city, we’re all crying the same cry,’ said Ewart Howell, a Norwood Street resident whose bank recently told him his house has lost $100,000 in value because of vacancies on the street. ‘The homeowners who have been here for a while, we didn’t create this problem. But we’re the ones who are feeling it.’”
“Before the bottom fell out, this part of Norwood Street was a real estate boomtown. From 2000 to 2007, there were 36 home sales that involved market-rate conditions.”
“In those cases, the average home was increasing in value by $76,000 a year. Expressed as a percentage, home values were increasing 47.5 percent a year — in other words, doubling every 25 months.”
“‘It’s crazy, what some of these houses were going for,’ said Leonard Wright, 49, who still lives on the first floor of his boyhood home on Norwood Street. ‘I was a paperboy, so I know all the houses on this street. Some of them were going for 300, 400 grand. And I can tell you, they just ain’t worth it.’”
“No.25, the green-sided house, and No.44, the prematurely aging duplex with the boards on the doors and windows, were caught up in what appear to be flipping schemes: They were bought for low prices by local real estate companies, then sold a few months later for nearly double their original price — even though no significant improvements were made — to naive investors.”
“Now they sit empty as they progress toward sheriff’s sale, where they will likely be turned over to banks that already have more foreclosed houses than they know what to do with. Neighbors say the houses have been ransacked, their pipes and wiring stripped.”
“No.41, a small, two-family home, (is) owned by Vanessa Parker, a Newark resident who was making a first stab at real estate investment when she jumped into a hot market in 2006 and bought the property for $300,000.”
“To pay for it, she got an adjustable rate subprime mortgage with an initial rate of 9.35 percent. Parker, who worked at a bank, knew it was a lousy rate, but figured she could refinance after six months of on-time payments.”
“Then she lost her job and was out of work for three months. Then she said her credit report got an erroneous blemish on it, which further delayed refinancing. Then the house needed repairs, which decimated her already thin savings.”
“Within less than a year, she had defaulted. She is now trying to sell the house to avoid foreclosure. ‘Everything went the total opposite of how I wanted it to go,’ Parker said. ‘It’s just been a total disaster.’”
The Intelligencer Journal from Pennsylvania. “Jim Gillespie, CEO of Coldwell Banker, faults the national media’s focus on foreclosures and the subprime mortgage crisis for keeping home buyers on the sidelines these days.”
“‘This is the absolute best time in my 33 years in real estate to buy a home,’ he said last week during a visit to Lancaster.”
“Gillespie, who oversees a brand with 117,000 agents and brokers worldwide, said he had come to town ‘to support our new affiliate’ and to help in its efforts to recruit more agents.”
“Lancaster County reflected the national trend - but to a lesser extent - with sales of both new and existing homes dropping from 6,453 in 2005, also a record year locally, to 5,735 in 2007, an 11 percent decline over two years, according to figures from the Lancaster County Association of Realtors.”
“That decline steepened in the first quarter of this year when home sales in Lancaster County dropped 29.5 percent, compared with the first quarter of 2007.”
“Most real estate booms last about five years, Gillespie said, followed by a two-year ‘correction.’ But the boom that ended in 2005 had gone on for 10 years and the current correction is in its 34th month, he said.”
“When will the downturn end? Gillespie said he has no idea, but that doesn’t change his advice to potential buyers. ‘You should not try to time the market,’ he said. ‘People who try to time the market get burned.’”
“Home purchases are important investments, regardless of the state of the market, Gillespie said. They usually increase in value between 1 percent and 2 percent above the rate of inflation and offer significant tax write-offs.”
“‘We’re three years into this thing. If people wait too long, prices will go back up and inflation may kick in with higher interest rates,’ he said.”
The Courier Times from Pennsylvania. “If anyone seemed safe from defaulting on home loans, it was her. The Morristown single mother of three is a full-time real estate paralegal.”
“Extra money from after-hours work preparing home-sale documents for attorneys paid for her kids’ drum lessons, karate classes and academic tutoring for her developmentally disabled twins. It also allowed her to purchase investment properties.”
“But, as lenders backed away from extending loans even to qualified homebuyers, her part-time work dried up. Three missed mortgage payments later, she was scrambling.”
“‘The work is nonexistent,’ said the woman, who wished to remain anonymous. ‘They were very apologetic, but it’s affecting everyone. Their real estate business has really fallen off, and they have to do other things as well.’”
“Paul Auerbach, an associate broker in Upper Southampton, has been working almost exclusively with homeowners facing foreclosure for more than 30 years. This, he said, is the worst he’s ever seen.”
“In 2006, a total of 133 properties sold at sheriff’s sale in Bucks County; last year, the number rose to 275, and through May of this year 169 were sold, county numbers show. And they’re not just lower-priced properties, Auerbach said. He’s worked with clients who have million-dollar homes - which are now worth much less.”
“‘I haven’t ever had as much in the upper price range,’ he said.”
“The Morrisville mother of three’s mortgage company basically said: ‘Get more income.’”
“She’s waiting to hear back from her lender to see if the company will transfer three missed payments to the backend of her loan, lessen the monthly payments for a while and put off adjusting her interest rate.”
“‘If I pay everything on time for a year then maybe I would be able to refinance,’ she said.”
“In the meantime, she is looking for work cleaning homes or in the medical field as a patient observer. Even working at McDonald’s isn’t looking so bad, she said.”
‘The problem is that we just can’t get people to come to Massachusetts as much as they want to leave,’ said Andrew Sum, author of the report. ‘We need to start asking what we can do to make Massachusetts a more desirable place to live, why people don’t want to come here to live.’
Of all the places I look at, the press in Massachusetts complains the most about high prices, and at the same time does more to deny a housing price problem and beg for the state to keep prices from falling. And they wonder why people are leaving.
“…complains the most about high prices, and at the same time does more to deny a housing price problem and begs for the state to keep prices from falling…”
Do Massachusetts drivers like to step on the accelerator and the brake pedal at the same time?
“Do Massachusetts drivers like to step on the accelerator and the brake pedal at the same time?”
Nah, that sounds more like NYC cabdrivers.
The Boston press….simply playing to both sides. At least they offer both sides. All I get here is shill script.
Do Massachusetts drivers like to step on the accelerator and the brake pedal at the same time?
Ever drive in Boston? It makes Manhattan driving a cakewalk.
Seriously.
10-4 Bahstin is the worst driving city-period
You should try San Juan, Puerto Rico. The driving combined with creatively-engineered horn sounds is enough to drive anyone crazy.
Chicago around Midway airport also is bad. Last time I was there I almost wrecked four times within two minutes of setting out from the rental car lot.
Tijuana, Mexico! “Boston drivers” is such an overrated phrase. The thing about Boston that makes it seem tough to drive is not the drivers, it is the crazy roads. They twist and turn, traffic is outrageous, many times they aren’t labeled…the drivers themselves are no different than Cleveland, Philly, New York, Washington, DC drivers, etc.
I’ve lived on both coasts and also Texas.
Actually, Eastern Massachusetts drivers are unique in their obliviousness to what’s ahead of them on the road, and some of them will even deliberately aim their cars into yours from a safe speed and distance. It’s that bad there.
No sh*t.
The first time I drove there, there were three serious more-than-fender-benders on a main artery (non-highway) with traffic that was moving slower than 10mph.
I was quite impressed, actually, at the sheer rage of it all.
It is equally scary given the thought that some newly made foreman actually let then wield nail-guns! Now, that is scary! Where was the TSA? Strip seaching my 98 year granny at LAX?
I second that. Got my license in NY, moved to Mass. NY’ers have a better understanding about right-of-way, although they behave in a much more aggressive manner.
And while we’re on the subject, the shoulder of the road isn’t another damned lane on the highway.
No kidding. Part of the reason the roads are so bad in Boston is that every little old town with two lane roads and parking on the roads has a contingent of old time residents that protest any time a study suggests adding lanes to a road. “A four lane road would ruin the old time character of our town!” they cry.
But having a road that resembles a parking lot 18 hours a day in the center of town doesn’t ruin the character?
And don’t get me started on the “Let’s use the breakdown lane as a traffic lane” solution.
Yes, people - on interstates in the Boston metro area, the breakdown lane is a designated travel lane during peak-traffic flow times. You might ask, “But what do I do if I break down?” You know what you do? You don’t even think of stopping. Because if you do, you’ll get rear-ended at 80mph. Happens a few times a year to some innocent outsider who thought that a breakdown lane was for when you breakdown.
Back to housing: every time there is a local MSM story about some homeowner about to be foreclosed I do a search of the public land records. And 9 out of 10 times, there are multiple cash-out refi’s on the record. And every time I write the reporter with a detailed clarification of the story, with no assumptions or name-calling, just the facts. And you know what happens? Nothing. They don’t care or don’t get it or are too afraid to speak the truth.
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Lot lower home prices will help a lot. People forget that the recession of early 1990s in SoCal had a lot to do with the preceding run up in home prices relative to other parts of the US. Actually, Boston area had a similar situation in housing back then.
Jas
“… the press in Massachusetts complains the most about high prices…”
MSM in MA:
Certainly, “something” has to be done to make housing affordable for the less fortunate. At the same time, we can’t be seen standing around doing nothing for the middle class… We have to make _some_ noise about understanding middle class efforts to live here.
*****
“… and at the same time does more to deny a housing price problem… ”
MSM in MA:
We’re different. And besides, we like our house prices, those of us who own (everyone and their mother, at this point)… we’ve worked hard to earn those equity gains.
*****
“… and beg for the state to keep prices from falling.”
MSM in MA:
Of course. Again, we can’t be seen standing around doing nothing. We need to do something to assuage our liberal guilt and the guilt of the intellectual elite at all of our schools… because just think about how bad it will be if the financially reckless are punished. We cannot risk rewarding rational participants and putting the less fortunate back into rental housing. For that would be terrible.
MA is getting completely hollowed out: competent, productive young adult citizens are leaving for greener pastures. I can’t stress enough how bearish this is for MA housing prices.
On my street (I rent) in Watertown (in the western Greater Boston area), literally half of the multi-family houses are owned by people in their 70s or 80s. Another just passed on this winter, and the house is sitting for sale (at too high a price, natch).
By no means is this example anecdotal–MA houses are disproportionately owned by the greatest generation. With a net migration of young families never to return (they are stuck having purchased elsewhere), you are going to see supply pressure for the next decade, at least.
Of course, this is in addition to the historically high price to median income or price to rent ratios.
After having lived there, I have to say that there is A LOT of old money floating around Boston, as in most other Northeastern cities. My former boss there owned not only a couple of stores, but a home in a ski resort in NH, a number of brownstone apartment buildings in Downtown Boston, as well as his Mother’s estate. He himself didn’t earn a single penny of it, but rather just inherited all of it and used the rent income to buy other properties. I got the feeling that huge swaths of Boston was owned by old area families.
I haven’t been back in over 10 years. I’d be curious to see what has happened to it. Sounds even worse than when I was there.
RE: My former boss there owned not only a couple of stores, but a home in a ski resort in NH, a number of brownstone apartment buildings in Downtown Boston, as well as his Mother’s estate. He himself didn’t earn a single penny of it, but rather just inherited all of it and used the rent income to buy other properties.
The NY Times & Boston “Glob” readership.
I’m a bit farther out that you, Newton. But the price to rent ratio by me is insane. I pay about 1.5K a month for an OK 2br apt, about 800sf. I get heat and hot water for free. I roll out of bed and am at the T in three minutes. A 30 minute ride and I’m downtown.
For sale a mile up the road is a “lovely” 622sf 1br condo. It has two fireplaces which I imagine eats up a bit of the square footage but only one works so it’s got that going for it. At the low, low asking price 299K it will only cost me 1750/month according to ZipRealty. The taxes on the place are 215/month and the condo fees are 204. So lets see…carry the one and you get $2170/month. Heat and hot water aren’t included in the condo fee so bump it up some. But for only around $700/month I can move up to the dream of home pwnership. I’ll never miss the extra bedroom or square footage and the extra mile walk everyday will do me good. Where do I sign?
Yeah, the inflated housing prices in Mass. were created by stringent NIMBYism that prevented large scale development of property. There’s ‘wetlands’ to protect, noise ordinances, historical preservation, ‘affordable’ housing laws, and every other piece of red tape available to keep more houses from being built. Because of this, Mass is losing its best and brightest.
However, the ‘only 64% who were born stay’ might seem shocking at first, but Mass. also has a large influx of people who go to college and then decide to stay in the Boston area. This brings the exodus down to a net -%5. So eventually the NIMBYism will lose to the emigration, but it still has a ways to go IMHO
Another thing to consider about the ‘only 64% who were born stay’ is that many of these families moved to Southern NH. Although they have their own economic base up there, many, many residents commute to jobs in Mass. We did that for seven years. Cities like Nashua can almost be considered outer lying suburbs of Boston.
RE: Cities like Nashua can almost be considered outer lying suburbs of Boston.
That Nashua NH/MetroWest MAZZ corrider from I93 over to Rt. 3, is a commuter’s hell.
Last place I’d ever want to live in New England.
My husband commuted to North Andover from Nashua which wasn’t bad, he could ride his dual sport bike on back roads to get there. Prior to that he commuted all the way to Waltham - I hardly ever saw him during the week and when I did he was usually in a foul mood.
Rt. 3 is better now that it’s three lanes, although I really used to like how the road would go from two lanes to four once you crossed the NH border.
“Jim Gillespie, CEO of Coldwell Banker, faults the national media’s focus on foreclosures and the subprime mortgage crisis for keeping home buyers on the sidelines these days.”
“‘This is the absolute best time in my 33 years in real estate to buy a home,’ he said last week during a visit to Lancaster.”
“Gillespie, who oversees a brand with 117,000 agents and brokers worldwide, said he had come to town ‘to support our new affiliate’ and to help in its efforts to recruit more agents.”
*****
When sellers are selling when it makes no sense, they end up sounding like jackasses.
“When will the downturn end? Gillespie said he has no idea, but that doesn’t change his advice to potential buyers. ‘You should not try to time the market,’ he said. ‘People who try to time the market get burned.’”
*****
Another gem…
What he’s not saying is that in most housing markets in this country the “recovery” could well approximate an “L”.
No one, anywhere, is going to “get burned” by waiting.
For YEARS.
This guy is a piece of work. Peoples finances are going down in flames all over the place because of houses and he resorts to threats as he ‘opens another affiliate and hires agents.’ Used car salesmen have more integrity..
‘Used car salesmen have more integrity.’
Shucks, rabid weasels have more integrity. In fact, TURNIPS have more integrity than this guy and his wretched ilk.
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‘You should not try to time the market’
But “you should” always try to PRICE the market, be it homes or Scams (formerly stocks).
Jas
Why should you not try to time the market? I would assume most people that try to time the market miss it on the back side once prices start to rise…and that seems better than jumping in before a bottom and you are losing equity the first day you move in???
As Buffett says, “The price you pay determines the return you get.”
Never a truer word was said.
Yep, why would you buy an asset that is continually depreciating thousands every week/month. It’s like you knowing buy a stock at $100 when you knowingly know that is going down another 30 points or more. Does not make sense.
Worse, why would you buy it on margin?
Gawd, I wish they would knock it off with this idiotic straw-man argument about all of us who are “going to get burned” by trying to “time the market”.
We moved to Salt Lake in ‘88, right in the midst of the depth of the last housing downturn. We didn’t buy right away even though prices were dirt cheap because I didn’t initially expect my job to keep me there more than two years. Well, two years turned to five, the SL economy turned around, and we knew we were staying. So we bought a year or two after things really had “turned the corner”.
I probably lost out on $10-20K worth of housing affordability by waiting. Sorry, but that doesn’t constitute being “burned”, we were quite content with what we bought and lived in for 10 years while paying it off. Now we’re just waiting for the freefall to be over, so we can re-assess affordability as prices hopefully settle out. If they feel that’s trying to “time the market” I have a few choice responses but this is a family blog.
There are in fact plenty of speculators who really have gotten burned by trying to time the market. It’s just not the ones the RE cheerleaders are referring to. And they never have seemed too concerned about the singe-worthiness of that group, I wonder why they’re so concerned about us now…
This Gillepsie clown is a real turd. (pun intended).
Consider the fact that the volume and velocity of $$$$ in/out of housing has hit a wall, a three-toed sloth could time housing and hit a bullseye.
Gillespie is an asswipe.
How can he be both a turd and an asswipe at the same time? Does not compute.
“‘This is the absolute best time in my 33 years in real estate to buy a home,’ he said last week during a visit to Lancaster.”
So why are you wasting time telling everyone, douche? Shouldn’t you be out buying with both hands?
The best time in 33 years? Is this f*ckstain for real?
The Intelligencer Journal from Pennsylvania. “Jim Gillespie, CEO of Coldwell Banker, faults the national media’s focus on foreclosures and the subprime mortgage crisis for keeping home buyers on the sidelines these days
It must be different there Gillespie, RE agents all over America are blaming the RE Bust on the weather THIS week. Review you NAR talking points memo and get out more and smell the ROTTING tulips
“When sellers are selling when it makes no sense, they end up sounding like jackasses.”
Funny - there’s a big RE company in W. Colo. called Bray and Co.
Gillespie’s claims of “33 years in the business” to me have the same credibility as saying “I’ve been a sexual predator for 33 years”. Getting 6% on the buy and the sell, kickbacks from MB’s, working pocket listings… wow! Must’ve been tough huh?
Is it just me or do most of you have more respect for someone that said:
“After my husband had an affair and left me with the kids and no child support I did everything to pay the bills. I even tried my hand at being a realtor but there were so many back-stabbers after a year I couldn’t take it any more”.
Lost,
How apropo. Now all we need is Hee Haw and Co.
‘This is the absolute best time in my 33 years in real estate to buy a home’
That cannot be even near true. His memory is obviously not 33 years long.
‘This is the absolute best time in my 33 years in real estate to buy a home,’….’You should not try to time the market,’
Wow, you had me worried for a minute there. I thought I might be priced out forever if I missed this ‘best time’! But that’s OK, if I don’t have to time the market I’ll wait and look again in a couple of years.
I dunno why people are leaving. I heard the state has a really great insurance plan for everbody who needs insurance.
I know a young guy from Mass. He moved to AZ even though his entire family is there. He says he can’t afford a place with a little land at home. BTW, he gets health insurance at his job.
But for how long?
From what I have heard Corp America’s timetable for eliminating employer provided healthcare is within the next 5 years or so. Its a cornerstone of McCain’s platform, which he peddles as “heathcare reform”.
This will be another whammy for the middle class. They will lose their employer provided insurance, but won’t get any more pay. So now they will have to buy their insurance at retail prices, meaning they will get a LOT less than their employers would get at the wholesale price.
So let’s see: gas will be aroung $6-9 a gallon, and every household will need to allocate at least $500 (more likely it will be a lot more) for insurance, which of course is money that they don’t have. I know plenty of self employed folks who have no insurance at all, mostly because they simply can’t afford it. They are not “poor”, but they can’t afford $1000 per month premiums. Many are getting away with it because they are young, but sooner or later they will have a non trivial healthcare expense, which will probably land them in bankruptcy.
Wow, peak oil getting on MSM.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=747947551&play=1%E2%80%9D
And the housing bubble continues to leak. Talk about a perfect storm that will take us all into unchartered territory. Its not looking good.
You know, I have a bits buckets…
Yeah, stan, you scofflaw! Stick to the thread. Oh, Ben, that reminds me. When are you setting up the shoot for the proposed ‘Ben Beefcake 2009 Calendar? I’d like to order a bunch.
Calendar? I should start working on a tan.
Nope. I like my men like I like my coffee: milky white and not too sweet.
Hunks of the HBB?!?
Hoo, boy.
Don’t forget the loincloth.
What loincloth?
Wahooo!!!!
‘Don’t forget the loincloth.’
Haw! That’s right!
I was out late the day that thread with loincloth discussion ran and when I got back I checked out the thread again–stale by that time, alas– and laaaughed and laaaaughed.
And thanks to you, losty, my adorable magic UPS man will be greeted with even more shy and stupid giggling henceforth.
Hey, tell him if he’ll deliver in a loincloth we’ll put him in Ben’s calendar, right, Ben????
What loincloth? Take it all off!
Yeah, but I’m too lazy to check it! Predicting $10/12 gallon gas. criminey… got bike?
Yup! And I also got a bike carrier on my SUV to drive around with it like everyone who goes to Moab.
When I lived in Moab, we all joked about how many miles the tourists would drive just to ride their bikes around.
Lost in Utah,
Funny! Now I could see if they had Mass. lic. plates but I imagine most were from neighboring states that have equally breath taking views?
That’s my whole problem with the “extreme sports” crowd. It’s all about “trophies”. Have YOU… windsurfed the Columbia Gorge!? Huh..? Dude..?
They are almost ALL from Colorado and Salt Lake.
Drive hundreds of miles to pedal a few and break your arm.
The Moab hospital has a chart as to what area has the most injuries - Poison Spider, Slickrock, Porcupine, etc. I was in the ER once for a minor injury and the woman in the little room next to me had broken her arm in 3 places - she was sitting on her bike and just fell over. She was from Boulder. She was actually quite athletic looking…go figure.
It’s funny, Lost, I’ve long remarked on the geared out Moab bike transport phenomenon in much the same way.
Now a few years on, living in Torrey, I catch myself looking appreciably on the same, simply because they are the rare gear wagon that isn’t towing a load of 5 or more ATVs. “Wow! vacationers actually biking themselves around on their own pedal power. How quaint!”.
I’m not kidding, this is how bad it’s become. Listening for the din of the annual Memorial Day derby, hasn’t started yet.
Oh man, Shoe, you shudda been up here last weekend, it was a total zoo - thought I was in Moab for awhile, the Bike the Swell crowd.
SE Utah gets way more bikers than we do. Biking over here (comparatively) isn’t anywhere near as enticing. Most of the best potential opportunities are in the Park boundaries, but strict rules against gonzo biking keep much from happening there.
Outside the park, there aren’t many loop trails that don’t involve (a) substantial amounts of elevelation gain (think 2-3000 ft min) and/or (b) long stretches on highways 12 or 24 with 65 mph limits, and no shoulders. Oh, I almost forgot. Did I mention the wind? Makes half of the ride fun. The other half, not so much.
Hence we don’t get many bikers. But I’ll take ‘em over the gasoline powered gonzo species, anytime.
I think it would be fun to do the Cathedral Valley loop, as long as you could get through the river and it wasn’t hot or wet.
Or buggy (gnats are out here.)
I do that loop in our pick-em-up, we have a solar customer out there at the north end. Awesome country. Would be a cool ride, but probably way too sandy for biking, for long stretches. Even the best local loop ride, Velvet Ridge, is too sandy to ride downhill in some parts except for after a rainstorm.
You know, I have a bits bucket…
…which is 5 hours old and 280 comments long.
I remember we got extra Bits for lunch once. What a treat.
Maybe we could go back to that, if only on busy days…
Only about 64 percent of those born in Massachusetts still live in the state,
taxes do that
Hey EXETER you heading back for good gov
Cuz it’s bestest to borrow and pay an additional 6% sez the ideological fool.
“Within less than a year, she had defaulted. She is now trying to sell the house to avoid foreclosure. ‘Everything went the total opposite of how I wanted it to go,’ Parker said. ‘It’s just been a total disaster.’”
Man, I feel for you, Vanessa. I, too, have been unreasonably balked of ‘how I wanted it to go.’ I wanted to be a Queen and be carried around in a pink-curtained palanquin, majestically waving to masses of adoring peasants while eating heaps of candy and ice-cream. And now look! I have to drive myself around in my car, while majestically waving to masses of adoring peasants and eating heaps of candy and ice-cream. Life is just not FAIR! Boo hoo! Boo hoo hooOOOO! Look, Vanessa, let’s cry together, okay? Okay.
Boo HOOOOOOO…
Everything? Really Vanessa?
While I’ll grant you the Giants beating the Pats in the superbowl was a surprise. No doubt you lost a little bundle on that.
What exactly is “everything” that went the wrong way? It seems to me it was just one thing, the price of your house.
I’m sure the poor, poor single mother never gave a moments thought to actually SAVING some of the money that went towards her kids every whim, like the karate lessons, etc.
now I’m not saying people should live like hermits & foregore any of lifes pleasures but you just KNOW from this narrative she grew spoiled with the income, never planning ahead for possible bad times.
people like this vex. yes, I am sorely vexed . .. . they always cast prudent thinking to the wind with their “oh well, SOMEONE or SOMETHING will always save me ” mentality.
Perfect example; my Father-in-Law. He lives in Las Vegas. As I try to engage him in some thoughtful convos over the years about his water supply, he just refuses to think about it, buries his head in the sand and says ” Oh well, SOMETHING will work out for Las Vegas. It always does …. ” as he sees his salon customers poached away by the $6.00 a haircut foreign imports while he works 10 hour days just to tread water!!
deal with reality or reality will deal with you.
its just that simple.
Thats a funny convo with FIL Aquis. I had a similar reaction to a housing related conversation with a clueless family member. He said “Our free market paradise has a way with dealing with these problems”. As a RE Koolade drinker, I don’t think he has any idea what he said conflicts with what those words actually mean. Free market paradise….lmao…
“……majestically waving……..”
Judging from most of your posts, I’m guessing this “wave” consists of a single finger extended vertically.
No extra points for guessing which finger it is.
Out here in Utarrr, we call it the “one finger salute.” It’s generally reserved for those pesky ATVs that leave you in the dust as you’re out hiking.
No, no, no,
Waving with a hand with the palm faced towards you, asking “can you read between the lines?”
I was letting my 16 year old daughter drive the car the other day (new driver). Another girl cut her off, and she immediately flipped her off………
As a father, I was so proud………:)
Coincidently, I have a pink-curtained palanquin that I’m not using right now, so let me know if you want to borrow it sometime.
Awesome! Note to self!
Don’t forget your magic talking kitten!
“Those who left Massachusetts say they are repelled by the cold, the high price of housing, the taxes - in essence, everything.”
Cold and taxes? According to the U.S. Census Bureau, state and local taxes in the Bay State absorbed 10.3% of the personal income of Mass residents in FY 2005. The national average was 10.7%. North Carolina, where many Mass residents are going, was 10.1%.
As for the cold, different strokes for different folks. “I love the people and the scenery and the seasons and the ocean, food, and cultural activities in Massachusetts.”
And as far as attracting people, metro Boston has a huge advantage –all the young people who go to college there.
So what does that leave? The housing bubble. The bubble is the problem; the bust is the solution.
In defense of the cold.
Cold winters keeps some unwanted neighbors away:
Big bugs
A lot of nasty snakes
Killer bees
Wimps who complain about the temps.
Alligators/Crocs
Mothra
Moving along Phishheads
*****
As I’ve been told, one year in the late 1990’s in Burlington, Vermont (pop. ~35,000), in the weeks after a late summer Phish show (100,000 attendees outdoors somewhere north of there), some hangers-on types decided to “camp out” in the small downtown park, for it was the end of the summer touring season.
(For those unaware, Phish had already successfully imitated/copied the Grateful Dead business model and were making big cash by staging these live events that drew the faithful Phishheads to follow the band on the road)
The usual complaints by downtown folk about not feeling safe near the park, etc., were heard. Drug dealing, threatening behavior (probably skateboarding, ha!) were seen as most problematic.
Apparently, as September began to close toward October in this year, City Hall held a meeting to discuss the situation, for this was a new development in the People’s Republic, as being lenient was OK, apparently, but “too lenient” in this case was a problem.
After being peppered with questions approximating “what are you going to do about it?” - the police chief got up and reminded everyone that by Halloween… the “Phishheads” would be freezing their balls off and would very likely be moving toward southern climes by then.
“Ah ha”… everyone was relieved at the logical plan. Within a week or two the problem was, of course, solved as the chief predicted.
Hey, you dissin’ my tribe?
Is’nt it great when common sense prevails
And it builds character. I love the cold. Used to live in Chicago and I miss the winters.
“According to the U.S. Census Bureau, state and local taxes in the Bay State absorbed 10.3% of the personal income of Mass residents in FY 2005. The national average was 10.7%. North Carolina, where many Mass residents are going, was 10.1%.”
Oh my word….. WT, Thank you for eviscerating the screech monkeys favorite hobgoblin.
Yep, Mass taxes are way down from what they used to be, relative to the rest of the country. Whining continues.
The fact is, housing prices have come down quite a lot compared with NYC (state and local taxes 15.7% of income). Since the advantages of both places are similar, I’m afraid we’ll lose people and jobs to Beantown, not just baseball, basketball and football games.
Like people who say that all GW skeptics are paid by big oil? Chill out, we all take our turns as screech monkeys. Even you.
I think a reasonable overall tax burden (fed, state and local combined) should be in the range of 10% for all income levels. How high would it be before you said, “high enough, already”?
In our former home of Vermont, exeter, the individual tax burden is ranked highest of all 50 states.
This in a place where many of the post-college age youth have left the place or do not return after school.
The economics for average citizens of Vermont, Maine and Massachusetts are becoming like it is for those in the city of San Francisco.
They are great places for the richest of society (in Vermont, that’s often the carpetbaggers) and for those who live on government assistance.
Absolutely terrible for everyone else.
The BS tax nattering is just another boogeyman used to advance a cause. When the nutjobs bring forth an acceptable solution instead of their worn out, predictable harping, millions will be happy to listen.
They had their solution — cut funding for the poor, Blacks, Latinos, immigrants, and those living in older central cities. Did that after 1994.
Turns out they weren’t getting much anyway, so Newt & other honest conservatives moved on to cutting spending on everyone else too.
And went poof.
So here we are.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, state and local taxes in the Bay State absorbed 10.3% of the personal income of Mass residents in FY 2005. The national average was 10.7%. North Carolina, where many Mass residents are going, was 10.1%.
Don’t forget higher incomes in the Bay state than the national average. Median family income for 2006 was $59963 in Mass and $41994 nationally.
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/elections/keyraces/census/ma/
Employment here is strong depending on the field… hi-tech, biotech, finance, legal, healthcare are all doing well. Now with tax-breaks for Hollywood studios, there is an effort to build a studio in Plymouth, MA.
One last point: I would rather be in eastern Massachusetts when(if) Peak Oil hits than just about any other part of the country… Wind turbines and solar are both viable alt-energy solutions here and public transportation is well-developed in and around Boston. Just my .02…
‘I have nothing,’ Torres told the Herald in Spanish last week. ‘I don’t have a business. I don’t have a car. I don’t have a house. I don’t have anything.’”
What’s your friggin point. Did you have any of that before?
I rent. I don’t have a house. For years I didn’t have a car. I don’t have a business….wait a minute…..I may be a victim of predatory lending and didn’t not know it.
Someone probably spiked my drink. Call Barney Frank. And Oprah.
I’m pretty sure she’s guaranteed all those things by the Constitution.
snark off
But she doesn’t speak English, so it couldn’t be her fault.
I know it’s hard to believe, but not knowing English doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want and get away with it.
Same thing happens here in AZ.
Come to think of it, I recently attended a neighborhood meeting in a nearby community center. One of our hot topics was a neighborhood restaurant’s expansion plans. Seems that the owner had to hire a representative to help him with the zoning process because, among other reasons, his English wasn’t very good.
One of the officers of our neighborhood association called BS on that one. After all, this guy owns five restaurants around Tucson. Surely he has to know some English in order to deal with his suppliers.
And here’s a fun factoid about the community center where we had our meeting: It has free English classes. Paid for by our tax dollars. Those classes are within easy walking distance of the restaurant under discussion.
BTW, the restaurant owner’s rezoning attempt is running into heavy opposition.
It’s the Sammy Sosa Syndrome.
No kidding.
Quite frankly, I think the five restaurants are being used as a front for another kind of business. Y’know, something that needs a bit of money laundering.
Reason for my suspicion: The rezoning consultant has to be costing the owner a fortune, and the restaurant in our neighborhood isn’t that busy. And restaurants around town are reporting that business is way down.
How would that work, anyway? Because I see several restaurants in town that have been here for years, that can’t possibly be making any money.
‘I have nothing,’
Well, look at it this way, when you ain’t got nuttin’, you got nuttin’ to lose…
So, what’s the problem again?
“Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose”. - Kris Kristofferson (made famous by Janis Joplin).
“I have nothing.” she said.
OK, cue this great Tim O’Brien song, Less and Less:
I try to travel around with less and less
I tried them all and the simple way is the way that’s best
I save a lot of time not havin’ to choose
What color shirt I wear or which pair of shoes
Don’t need a guitar to sing my song
Wherever I land I’ll always get along
Chorus:
I’ve been up and down the road a time or two I guess
Now I try to travel around with less and less
I had a woman once, she was not my wife
I took a long detour on the road of life
I carried that weight and almost broke my back
Nearly lost the ones I love getting’ back on track
Wasted lots of time and I still feel the pain
Made a vow that I won’t go through that again
Chorus
Coffee in the mornin’ a little wine at night
A meal somewhere in the middle I think I’ll be alright
I’ve got my pride, I got a smile to greet the day
I got a friend or two to help me through when I lose my way
Don’t need a guitar to sing my song
Wherever I land I’ll always get along
I’ve been up and down the road a time or two I guess
Now it’s time to travel around with less and less
wow- someone who actually knows Tim O’brien. They play him a lot on my hometown station. wdvx.com Lotsa’ Americana stuff.
I was living in Boulder when he and the rest of Hot Rize played in the Niwot Grange. Great stuff. Esp. loved Red Knuckles and the Trail Blazers (Wigwam Wiggle), which is really the same guys all dressed up Western and playing country swing. Saw him play in Colorado a year ago.
On reading this I just had to go to Youtube to view “the battle hymn of love” with kathy mattea. Even if you don’t like country, you have to appreciate this one: catchy tune, short sweet and to the point. And one of the best videos ever — just the two of them singing together…with Yosemite National Park as a backdrop.
“They usually increase in value between 1 percent and 2 percent above the rate of inflation and offer significant tax write-offs.”
Why don’t these clowns ever mention costs of ownership ? Replacing a roof ?
Fixing Termite damage ? Dead Furnace or Water Heater ? Water leaks ? Replacing decks ? On going Yard care ? Keeping the house up to date ? And significant tax write offs ? You’re still paying Significant taxes !
Last week I had to have $500 in service done on the evap cooler and duct work. Looking at spending $1000+ to replace 4 1978 era aluminum windows.
Hmm. . . .
Massachusetts and California are in dire straits.
“‘The market obviously isn’t there for high-end condos right now,’ Karp said. ‘You don’t want to outthink the economy.’”
It’s way too late for that. You have to at first think before it is possible to “outthink”. “High-end” condos were built in all of the most unlikely of places. Little thought was apparently given as to why those that could afford those uber high priced condos wouldn’t buy something else or that those that might like those condos wouldn’t be able to afford them.
In my city, more and more SFH prices, albeit in so-so neighborhoods, are listing well below condos located in only somewhat better neighborhoods. The idea that they’d pay more for a condo than a SFH will get shattered (again) in this bust.
Come on. The millions of 25 year-old guys, that are 3 years out of college and making $100K a year, that need a luxury condo in a prime location to be able to nail every mega-hot young woman in town.
Now those making half that can rent them from the “owners” for one-third to one-half the cost of “owning”.
And still nail the …
Well, yeah, if you’re renting you still have to lie and say you own it. To nail the mega-hotties, you have to appear rich.
Nobody’s ever asked for a rental v. buy contract while drunk and horny.
If you have, i apologize for calling you a dingbat, in advance.
Lots of the housing stock in MA is older. When I lived there I went to some open houses - lots of overpriced dumps with heating systems circa the Coolidge administration. And lead. And asbestos. I live in Texas now and the cost of living is much less. I drive less. I pay less for rent and car insurance. And the wait to get a new patient physical from my new PCP was about two weeks vs months in the Bay State.
But the regulation is to PROTECT YOU…that’s why everything takes so long….Like the Big Dig.
Seriously. 4 hours to get to Logan from 12 miles away? I thought the traffic in Houston was bad, but it’s a walk on the beach.
My nephew was offered a transfer to Boston several years ago. They went up and were shocked at the housing prices - $450-500k for a 50-60 year old Cape Code in a run down neighborhood. They’d spent $160 for a 4 bedroom on a big lot in a nice neighberhood. They didn’t make the move.
JoJo,
I keep hearing those types of stories and it actually motivates me. Just knowing that “Nothing cures high prices quite like high prices” should be encouraging to all.
It happens–as it last did between 1988 and 1994. They really think it won’t. But this time around Massachusetts has become almost entirely a service economy, and one headquartered from out of state.
I live in Texas now . . . the wait to get a new patient physical from my new PCP was about two weeks vs months in the Bay State.
I guess that explains why Texas’ health stats are so much better than Massachusetts’ . . .
anyone know if small biz loans are much tougher to get ?
for equipment not mort type sht
tia
“The foreclosures have also left the borrower, Angela M. Torres, who speaks only Spanish, in financial ruin. ‘I have nothing,’ Torres told the Herald in Spanish last week. ‘I don’t have a business. I don’t have a car. I don’t have a house. I don’t have anything.’”
…….annnndd what did you have before, when you were living in public housing? hmmm.. a high fico score? no, a good job? no, $$ in the bank? no, a green card? no, 7 kids? yes.
gimme a break.
7 kids by 7 daddys, all unknown
And she don’t has a “green card”, either……..
RE: Mazzland…Corruption City
One of the guys at the gym went to see his local selectman to complain about his town’s crumbling sidewalks and roadways.
Response from politico…Better get use to it, because all the projected state reimbursement dough for infrastrucure maintenance for the next 20 years is going to pay for the $17 billion in cost overruns for that 1.5 mile leaking sieve called the “Big Dig”.
I saw the Big Dig for the first time this past winter. What a mind boggling waste. Underground roads? To a contrarian, this should signal the peak for autos as an urban mass transit mode.
And after all that expense, there is still no direct rail route from New York to Maine through Boston. You have to travel to one station in Boston and make a non-rail connection to another station before continuing onto Maine or New York. The opportunity costs of the “Big Dig” are mind boggling.
Spare me. Maine has had no economy longer than I have lived on this good green earth.
Who’d spend the money hooking up the connections to that?
Excuse me, I’ll just go order my Maine Lobster™ right now.
maybe they can bury Ted Kennedy’s ass there.
da bear
Spring 1929 is in the air, wake up and smell the tulips.
“Between 2000 and 2007, more than 300,000 residents - about 5 percent of the state’s population, left Massachusetts. Those who left Massachusetts say they are repelled by the cold, the high price of housing, the taxes - in essence, everything.”
I lived there for 2 years. 5% sounds low. After being there, beyond the interesting history, I found nothing redeeming about the state. The weather is TERRIBLE, as in freakin’ cold in the winter, and equally HOT in the summer. The cost of rent, along with housing is insane. The people I ran into generally had nasty attitudes. I’d be willing to bet the nasty weather has more to do with it than the housing prices. Most cold places are probably going to empty out eventually since most of those areas have lost their industrial bases. Save Boston, the state looked like what you’d find in typical rust-belt states.
The only bad thing is that they’re ALL heading South. The relo- web sites are full of people from MA. They’ll probably eventually replicate Boston somewhere else. My guess is Raleigh, NC.
>> “They’ll probably eventually replicate Boston somewhere else. My guess is Raleigh, NC.”
That’s a vision of hell. I never want to see another Dunkin’ or Red Sox cap again in my life.
Why don’t these clowns ever mention costs of ownership ? Replacing a roof ?
Fixing Termite damage ? Dead Furnace or Water Heater ? Water leaks ? Replacing decks ? On going Yard care ? Keeping the house up to date ? And significant tax write offs ? You’re still paying Significant taxes !
———————————————————————–
Exactly! Especially the last part of paying “significant taxes”. I never could understand why it’s such a great thing to be able to get a percentage of relief back from having paid outrageous RE taxes to begin with.
“Imminent” recession may cost NYC 59,400 jobs: study
Each job on Wall Street creates another two to three jobs in other industries, from law firms to restaurants. And Wall Street employees earn about 35 percent of all salaries and wages in the city of over 8 million people.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080520/newyorkcity_jobs.html
Actually the median price for a home in greater Seattle is the same as Boston. As far as North Carolina- mixed reviews over at CityDaty.com- many complain of hidden costs- homes that measure basements and garage as total square footage, right wing religious dogma, cookie cutter subdivisions that are characterless; strip malls and tacky sprawl, plus crappy chain restaurants- to each his own I guess. I may also add that that North Carolina rates for quality of life according to Forbes at 29-Massachusetts number 3. Educations for primary and secondary grades is also sub par.
“Kozlowski is now serving time in federal prison for fraud related to looting millions from Tyco.”
Hey,I lost money on my Tyco shares…can I rip out some copper wiring from his mansion? I want reparations for my losses, just like the FBS.
“In a sign of the times, the owners of some grand Nantucket estates are knocking millions off their price tags in a bid to lure buyers.”
There was a young man from Nantucket
Whose house was so small he got stuck’n't.
He said with a groan
As he ‘faulted his loan,
“If my ARM was an arse, I’d be f***ed’n't.”