You Invest, You Take Your Chance
The News Press reports from Florida. “A plunging economy, soaring gas prices, the highest unemployment rate in 15 years and skyrocketing foreclosures are forcing Southwest Florida residents to hold garage sales not to downsize or de-clutter, but to make ends meet. People being foreclosed upon are moving out of state and lightening the load by selling possessions.”
“‘Southwest Florida has always kind of been the garage sale capital of the world,’ said Bruce Scott of Bruce Scott Auctions in Fort Myers.”
“Carl, of Cape Coral, is a Realtor who now takes listings of foreclosed properties from the bank, evicts the residents, does a lock change, and gets the property ready for bank re-sale.”
“The sale she was holding at a home in the Villas on a recent Saturday had been advertised as a ‘garage sale.’ In reality, she was selling the household property from three foreclosures at the home.”
“But the Villas home belonged to Carl. She had saved the property from foreclosure and intended to use it as a rental. After she bought it, the resident refused to move for three months, meaning Carl lost all that possible rent income.”
“Now Carl is in trouble with the mortgage on the investment home that was supposed to help pay the bills. ‘I’m stuck with this albatross,’ she said.”
From WWSB 7 in Florida. “The increase in the number of houses in foreclosure on the Suncoast has been a boom for one pesky species. The people who live in the Indian Beach Sapphire Shores neighborhood are slapping and scratching since one house went on sale for $1.6 million dollars about a year and a half ago.”
“Since then, the housing market crashed and it’s stood empty and abandoned ever since, and the once-sparkling swimming pool now looks more like a mosquito breeding swamp.”
“Dave Bagaus lives next door and Dave Braum lives across the street. They say nobody’s been taking care of the property for the past year and a half and the abandoned pool is a health hazard. ‘You can see how dirty it is. I’ve seen pea soup less green.’”
“All kinds of things are swimming around in there. ‘What is that growing over there? It appears to be palm fronds. Looks like a branch. There’s another mosquito (slap, slap), all sorts of algae.’”
From Winknews in Florida. “New information reveals another reason leading to local foreclosure problems — mortgage fraud. In fact Fort Myers ranks among the top ten cities in the nation for misrepresentation.”
“‘The street’s awfully quiet,’ said northeast Cape Coral resident, Daniel Garlock. But Garlock doesn’t so much mind the quiet. What does concern him, the number of empty homes in his neighborhood.”
“‘A lot of overgrown weeds around the houses look kind of run down. Just not very much attention is paid to them,’ he said.”
“Experts say people were claiming property as a vacation home instead of investment property to get a better rate. Investment properties are riskier loans, because people walk away faster when they run in to financial trouble.”
“‘Often times they’ll go ahead and rent it out and it’s truly being used as an investment property, or they’re trying to turn around and sell it very quickly for an appreciation,’ said mortgage broker, Laura Hess.”
“Some were buying multiple properties, but then… ‘In the last year, the property values have fallen so the people that were flipping properties are now just walking away,’ said Hess.”
The Bradenton Herald from Florida. “Two separate condominium projects that promised more than 300 units combined, retail and office space, and a marina are on hold. Since 2007, Bradenton City Council has issued seven extensions to planned development projects because of market conditions.”
“According to a CNN Money report published May 14, condo prices in the Sarasota area have dropped by 35 percent over the past year.”
“‘It’s not a shock. In my experience that’s reflective of Bradenton,’ said Ward 4 Councilman Bemis Smith. ‘Just look at the units that are for sale at Riviera Dunes (in Palmetto) and Promenade (in downtown Bradenton). You’ve got a lot more supply then you’ve got market for.’”
The News Journal from Florida. “After a decade of working for an area title insurance agency, Lisa McFarland lost her job with the downturn in the housing industry. ‘At the time they let me go, there wasn’t anything going on,’ McFarland said.”
“She took a job with the local office of a major tax preparation chain, but it lasted only for the season. Next, she turned to selling jewelry. But for the past five weeks, McFarland and her husband, Kevin McFarland, have been students at Hank Belden’s Hospitality Training and Bartending Institute here.”
“Lisa McFarland is one of several professionals from the real estate industry enrolled in Belden’s program. Others include an appraiser, three brokers, two salesmen and even a mortgage broker.”
“‘The bar business is recession proof. Nobody likes to drink alone. People at bars are either celebrating or commiserating,’ Belden said.”
From WJHG 7 in Florida. “You’ve seen the for sale signs lining the streets of your community, and heard the term ‘buyer’s market,’ but what does that really mean? It means sellers and builders are making great deals to make a sale.”
“It has provided such a tremendous opportunity for people to be able to own a home that weren’t able to own before,’ (said) Debbie Gericke, a realtor for almost 25 years. She says these great deals can be found all over northwest Florida, and many include appliances, high end counter tops and cabinetry.”
“Gericke said, ‘The buyer would be able to get into their first home at no more than 100 dollars and a monthly payment of $995 a month fixed for 30 years. Why someone wouldn’t want to take advantage of that I can’t imagine.’”
“And the deals don’t just apply to first time buyers. Homes like this with views like this are down almost 100,000.”
“‘You have an opportunity to purchase something that is drastically reduced over something two years ago, so you’re able to buy more than you were able to buy. The interest rates are at an all time low. They’ve never been this low before,’ (she said).”
“For anyone who is still skeptical according to the president of the emerald coast of realtors 2007 ranked as the fifth strongest year in our nation’s history as far as the number of real estate transactions. Gericke wants to assure buyers there’s no catch.”
The Atlanta Journal Constitution in Georgia. “Real estate agents have held private foreclosure tours, but last weekend’s tour may have been the first in metro Atlanta open to the public.”
“The white shuttle bus came to a stop and Damon Borozny joked to the passengers, ‘All right, time to scare the neighbors.’”
“At stop No. 5 on the seven-house expedition, the group examined a 4-year-old, two-story home on Glenvalley Drive in Decatur that looked beautiful in the dappled sunshine of a color photograph.”
“In March 2006 the house sold for $275,000. It sold again in May 2007 as a foreclosure, bringing $206,550. Now the lender had it back and was asking $176,900.”
“Borozny bought his Grant Park home this year out of foreclosure. He had lived in it as a renter, then was evicted when his landlord lost the property.”
“After months of dealing with the bank - ‘human beings have souls; banks don’t,’ Borozny told the participants - he was able to move back into the home as the owner.”
The Huntsville Times from Alabama. “Seeking to calm fears about the housing market locally and to highlight the favorable job growth trends, area Realtors and home builders presented their case at a press conference Wednesday.”
“Among the items highlighted were rising median sale prices in 2008, sellers getting prices near their asking price and a local economy expected to add an estimated 16,000 high-paying jobs in the next five years.”
“Realtors Association President Clif Miller said there is no better time to buy a home in the area. To support his claim, he cited healthy property values - median sales prices increased nearly 8 percent last year to $169,573 - long-term price appreciation, a 67 percent increase in property values since 2000 and low interest rates.”
“Speakers stressed that there’s no such thing as a national market. While 2007 marked the third-best year for the local housing market, 2008 is a bit behind that pace in several areas.”
“While there is good news to share locally, people are also taking a little longer to buy homes, said Sherry Dinges, a Huntsville Realtor and president of the Alabama Association of Realtors.”
“‘We’re probably as busy, but we’re probably showing more properties to people because there are more properties out there,’ she said. ‘We’re typically writing three offers before someone will buy. People are fearful, so we do a market analysis for them, showing there is no reason to be concerned - they are investing long-term.’”
The Sun Herald from Mississippi. “Unpaid debts and a stagnant housing market are jeopardizing a megadevelopment proposed in Stone County. Mississippi Investors VI, a real estate investment partnership based in Florida, announced plans in January 2007 for a community of 8,000 single-family homes in 12 distinct villages.”
“The company has purchased more than 10,000 acres from various companies and individuals. On Friday, 2,250 acres the company bought from Double A Firewood was scheduled for auction to satisfy unpaid debt. Chancery Clerk Gerald Bond said a second auction also had been advertised because of pending foreclosure.”
“Stone County Supervisor Wendell Patton said the developers are proceeding with Beaver Creek Estates, which he said will have 498 lots on 346 acres. But Patton does not think the larger planned development, called Horizon, is feasible in the current economy.”
“He said property was selling quickly after Katrina, and developers overbuilt. He recently learned 200 homes were on the market - a sizeable number for a county with fewer than 15,000 residents. ‘This economy is going to drive housing into a slump, from what I’m seeing,’ Patton said.”
“Real estate broker Paul Hardy said property sales escalated in Stone County after Katrina, but have slowed down.”
“It looked like a sweet deal: Pull together some investors, build houses in Mississippi, rent them to low-income tenants and qualify for federal loans that won’t have to be repaid.”
“However, new FEMA flood elevation standards are raising blood pressure among out-of-state investors who say they are spending millions to build housing here but may not be eligible for the state’s forgivable Small Rental Assistance Program.”
“That, in turn, will eventually force them to raise rents, putting affordable housing out of reach for many, the investors say.”
“Dave Irwin, a real estate agent representing a group of California investors, said they have already pumped in about $12 million to build 100 homes in Bayside Park over the past six months.”
“‘The whole project is in jeopardy,’ said Barry Hoffman, a California resident who pulled together a group of investors in the Sacramento area to build low-income housing in Bayside Park.”
“Hoffman, a dentist in the Sacramento area, owns four houses in Bayside Park. He became interested in Mississippi after learning of the dire need for affordable housing after Hurricane Katrina.”
“He and a partner pulled about 50 investors together to put money into Mississippi projects. ‘The money started to flow in,’ Hoffman said.”
“Then they learned about the Small Rental Assistance program and began applying for the loans. They began building three-bedroom homes in Bayside Park. There has been a building boom in Bayside Park. In less than two years, the county has approved 674 new construction plans for the south part of the county. Of those, ‘a good 75 to 80 percent’ are in Bayside Park, said building official Jerry Beauguez.”
“The out-of-state investors may have trouble finding local sympathy. ‘You invest, you take your chance,’ said Hancock County District 1 Supervisor David Yarborough. Yarborough thinks the Bayside bubble may pop and the area will be left with hundreds of vacant houses.”
‘He and a partner pulled about 50 investors together to put money into Mississippi projects. ‘The money started to flow in,’ Hoffman said. ‘Then they learned about the Small Rental Assistance program and began applying for the loans.’
Long time readers will remember this blog looked closely at the speculation that ran crazy after the hurricane. IMO, it’s interesting that some looking for bargains are called vultures today, but these people who bid up prices in the gulf and even look for welfare goodies aren’t called what they are.
We’ll know it’s time to buy when dentists stick to dentistry. Here is Mr. Hoffman, dressed quite nattily.
http://www.beautifulteeth.com/hoffman_bio.asp
Wasn’t too many days ago when I got a letter from my dentist. She usually does just one mailing a year, around Thanksgiving.
Well, it wasn’t too hard to read between the lines of this latest letter. She’s trying to drum up business. And I think I know why…
A few years ago, she dropped some big bucks on an office remodel and really started promoting cosmetic dentistry. For a while, business was good. After all, our local REIC has to look its best.
But these days, the cosmetic dentistry biz isn’t so good. And patients like Slim, who just need cleanings and an exam, aren’t going to spend enough to make up for the loss of all that high-dollar tooth capping and whitening trade.
There was a vanity ad from an association representing radiologists in the Washington Post this Sunday. I think they smell the outsourcing over the horizon.
IKEA is trying to bill itself as a destination spot for Memorial Day Weekend with a bbq ribs special and $0.25 hotdogs.
Don’t forget the Swedish meatballs!!
wow. what a mouthful of prosthodontics.
LOL
“Lisa McFarland is one of several professionals from the real estate industry enrolled in Belden’s program. Others include an appraiser, three brokers, two salesmen and even a mortgage broker.”
Professionals ?…spare me the BS..MS..and PhD degrees from the exciting field of Real Estate Gambling from the University of Fraud and Greed with their quasi technical Klingon minon and glorified office workers.
Some of these so called “Professionals” and their 6%er henchmen and hangers-on would be better suited “barking” at carnivals than slamming drinks down and wipping bars for tips.
RE isn’t a frigging profression. It was a national get rich CON JOB, Ponzi scheme and a Investment hobby for the drowned rats, GFs and Fbs
“‘Southwest Florida has always kind of been the garage sale capital of the world,’ said Bruce Scott of Bruce Scott Auctions in Fort Myers.”
I thought we lived in the garage sale capital of the world, but now I know better.
Florida - Returning to the swampland it always was….
To Inland_Empire looking for help with the nesting wife. Here’s some help. When we had our first kid we lived in an apt, directly across the hall was a trash chute. I can’t even begin to tell you how nice it was to immediately rid ourselves of those diapers, 15 seconds after they came off they were out of our lives forever. When we had our 2nd kid, we lived in a house and had to store those dirty diapers in our trash can in the garage for up to a week, got particularly bad during those hots summers, diapers baking in the garage. This actually applies to more than just diapers and is probably something most take for granted until they have to store their garbage until trash day.
Garage Mo Haul
“A plunging economy, soaring gas prices, the highest unemployment rate in 15 years and skyrocketing foreclosures are forcing Southwest Florida residents to hold garage sales not to downsize or de-clutter, but to make ends meet. People being foreclosed upon are moving out of state and lightening the load by selling possessions.”
Why then do todays media state that the
Unemployment filing rate has gone down?
Cause I can’t think how those #s could be accurate, not in todays economy.
–
“After years of double-digit increases, housing prices in the city in which I live, Sarasota, Fla., jumped an astonishing 35% in 2005 – an unsustainable rate of increase that was pushing housing prices beyond the reach of far too many people. We really needed our housing markets to cool down quite substantially.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121141155101312315.html?mod=todays_us_opinion
The Fed and the Mortgage ‘Crisis’
By WILLIAM M. ISAAC
May 22, 2008
The meltdown in the subprime mortgage market has caused a great deal of turmoil in the financial markets and hardship for individual homeowners and financial institutions. It prompted the Federal Reserve to take unprecedented actions to support the markets, one of which raises very difficult public policy issues.
…
Jas
The author of that upbeat piece is a Reagan-era chairman of the FDIC. All he has to do is drive around Sarasota to know that the guarantees provided by his former agency likely are about to be tested like never before. I’d be willing to bet that he has money offshore.
CEF
The Huntsville Times from Alabama. “Seeking to calm fears about the housing market locally and to highlight the favorable job growth trends, area Realtors and home builders presented their case at a press conference Wednesday.”
Yes- they’re building 10 new Wal-Marts, 5 new Home Depots, 50 new Mcdonald’s, and 30 new KFC’s all around the 10 new Mcmansion developments full of Florida and Northern Snowbird retirees. Yup- Prosperity abounds!
Have you ever made a post that did not mention “snow birds” or “equity locusts”? Just curious . . .
Well… let’s analyze the nature of 50% of the stories on this site: Bubblezones with problems; mainly FL, the Northeast, and so on. Yesterday’s AM story was about how MA has lost 5% of it’s population, of which a huge number are moving to- you guessed it- NC and other ‘cheaper’ areas.
I’ve been on the city-data.com site enough to see the thousands of people from these bubblezones heading to the Southeast. I’m from the SE and yes- what I described is EXACTLY what is happening. There is no real economic development save for mainly service industry jobs and state governments who bend over backward to build fugly housing developments for refugees and retirees from stricken bubble states. This will not bode well for the future of that region, which is ashame since it has enormous potential. So ya, I’m not super thrilled about it, and so when there’s stories such as this, with more Floridians ( typically people who made bad decisions) move away and towards my parent’s way, I think I’m not exactly out of line for making an observation or commenting on it.
Why? How would you describe what’s going on?
I’d describe it as Northerners tired of supporting southern states with their federal tax dollars deciding it’s their turn to move south and suck off the federal teat.
We have no problem supporting ourselves. The fact that most Northeastern states can’t keep their economies together nor keep anyone under the age of 40 from wanting to stay( save perhaps NYC) is the reason for the influx. The future of most areas above the Mason-Dixon line will be the increasing expanse of the rust belt.
Take a look at the map of federal spending distribution by state at taxfoundation.org. Georgia and Texas look to be the only states that don’t get more back than they pay in. The rest of the South looks to be benefiting from the high-tax Northerners.
Not true at all. The southern states take more from the federal treasury than they pay in. The northern states pay in more than they get. Look it up.
Aimee:
Truthfully who else would move to Huntsville Alabameeee, its not even on my radar as i place i would even consider moving to. Now Charleston South Carolina, or some other college tourist town, but Huntsville?
You might want to scratch Charleston too. My best friend lives there. Truthfully, save for a tiny historic downtown, there’s nothing redeeming about it. Plus the nice parts are super-expensive, surrounded by utter poverty.and oh- it rains EVERY DAY. I’d probably choose Huntsville over Charleston any day if given the choice.
Well, one of my friends just relocated there from Columbia, MO for job as an aerospace engineer–from the way he described it, the industry is thriving there, and most of the people moving in are moving for that purpose, not as retirees. He’s only 29, and he said he encounters lots of other young engineers from all over the country.
No doubt, the cross section of people in the region is changing dramatically. The ave age in most SE cities is amongst the youngest in the country, which is probably due to the more affordable living situations. This could in effect generate more modern economic development. If you get enough former expensive metro folks into an area, that tends to lead to future innovation. I know that Nashville has a rail system already in the works in anticipation of future growth, which is a fairly progressive stance.
Jetson, you’re spot on when you reference the vast swaths of destruction these people have created. Stay on message.
It isn’t necessarily the growth that bothers me because there’s tons of open space in these areas. What bothers me is the lack of even remotely organized community planning. There are numerous farms near my parents on hillsides that got turned into Mcmansion developments. They look really out of place there. Each development is sort of fenced in, with a front entrance and some sort of stonework thing with the name of it. Something along the lines of ” Steeplechase” or ” River Run”.
The Wal-Marts, Home Depots and Mcmansion developments all present this sort of cookie-cutter cluttered and characterless wasteland that I have no desire to live near or in. This is what many areas that I grew up in and around have become. I saw what it was like just a few years ago. If you saw it before, then you too would probably feel the same as I do.
But… I suppose population growth happens and change is inevitable. Who am I to be a cynic?
Well that is destruction by any measure. Words can’t describe the horror houses built against the backdrop of what was mostly ag land in the northeast. I don’t understand why anyone would want to live in these behemoths. Honestly, I’d be embarrassed but the metro fools never understood the idea of covering your @ass and keeping a low profile.
I know the locusts are a factor, I’m just pointing out that not every growing Southern city is dependent on old snowbirds and the REIC for their growth. Huntsville may not be the most dynamic or exciting town in the world, but they have been proactive in seeking out real industry and attracting genuinely productive and growing industries and populations, as well as that especially elusive goal, relatively high wage employment. They deserve some credit for that.
I’m not in disagreement with you. Nashville, Atlanta, Memphis, and Huntsville are all examples of cities that can more or less hold their own without being dependent on out of state locusts. But the huge number of people suddenly moving in as a result of the strains from overpriced RE in their home states does have an effect of which developers I feel are only too happy to provide accommodations, even if that means building a couple of Mcmansions right next to I-40 in a cornfield.
Anyhow, I suppose we’re a young country. The Southeast was perhaps one of the last underutilized regions in the country and now it is ripe for having it’s turn in the industrialized world.
Yup. I should have bought that condo on Battery Row 20 years ago.
Have you ever spent any time in Huntsville? I am 3rd gen So. Californian who travels to Hunstville for business. There are about 50 Aerospace/Military/Defense companies there. I could spend every other week there and not cover the huge amount of high tech business there. Lots of engineers getting hired and those are high paying jobs……of course, I don’t go there in the summer…………..
aNYCdj — I tried to send you a message through your YT page, I’d like to talk to you about MAC/Final Cut Express, please email me at editoratcarbuyersnotebookdotcom, thanks.
Huntsville, Alabama is full of highly educated folks…started when the Germans who built the V-2 rockets were captured by the US and brought there to design and build rockets and weapons for the Cold War. Lots of rocket and weapon tech is designed there.
You may not care for Alabama, but Huntsville is not a locale you want to slam if you value serious smarts.
I applied for some jobs in Huntsville. Just waiting to hear. My husband is a PE so as far as we am concerned it is the perfect place to finish our work years. After we retire we may come home to the Rockies for the summers but I love Huntsville. It has all of the good things about the south with few of the drawbacks. A high tech highly educated population. My cousin relocated there from DC and he loves it.
aNYCdj,
You know not what you speak. I am a refugee of the SoCal housing boom and it was the best thing to happen to this Aerospace engineer and his my family. I made a poor choice to return to Los Angeles County in 2005, immediately identified the biggest “Ponze scheme” in history and got myself back to the Southeast (Huntsville/Madison). This is from a guy who grew up in San Diego.
Madison, AL:
Every 9th adult is an engineer
Average income is over $100,000
Third largest research park in North America
Highest concentration of PhD’s second only to D.C.
70% of adults have college degree
Outstanding public schools:
Bob Jones and Virgil Grissom High rated in top 5% of U.S. High Schools
Bob Jones graduation rate ~100%
96% go on to college
NASA Space Flight Center
Missile Defense Agency
Redstone Arsenal
Aviation & Missile Command
Army Material Command
Lockheed, Boeing, Northrup, BAE, Raytheon, SAIC
and every other defense contractor
Oh yes, to all you BLUE state I/O, no doc morons who made this whole housing bubble possible, I thank you for my family and stay the hell out of Alabama. You’ll just scew the place up for everyone!
Well why not mention snowbirds? That is the biggest influx on a yr by yr basis?
Kind of a simplistic response. I’m interested in Huntsville as a non-retired engineer looking for work - strong base of engineering companies located there. Cost of living is relatively low.
Maybe there’s a trend toward retirees, but there’s a lot more to it than that I’m sure. Anybody HBB’ers know much about this area?
My Aunt, Uncle, and their two kids live in and around the area. The city is relatively small. There is a fairly robust engineering community, mainly for defense and aeronautics along with various chemical producers. It is right along the TN border where my Aunt and Uncle live, which is very rural. It also isn’t terribly far from Nashville.
I’ve been there 5-6 times. I thought it was OK. Sort of drab and suburban with loads of mega-strip malls. But… the cost of living is cheaper.
That’s kind of as I’d imagined, but since I work from the home I don’t need to commute, so I can be 1-2 hours away and still do business fairly easily. I’m actually more interested in areas further north and east toward the TN valley, but being within striking distance of Huntsville would have it’s advantages.
You must be talking about TVA, which has a massive presence in the Southeast. It consists of numerous hydroelectric dams, steam plants, as well as nuclear power and various research facilities. There’s also a massive national laboratory in Oak Ridge TN called ORNL. East TN is pretty nice, but Knoxville ( where I am from) is horribly sprawly. We’re talking predictable cloverleaf exits with the same repeated pattern of Cracker Barrel, Waffle house, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. In fact, most grocery stores seemed to have vanished when I was last there- superseded by “Super Wal-Marts” that now have gigantic grocery stores inside.
But even now, a swift 15-20 minute drive gets you out into the sticks. East TN is a bit too far from Huntsville. That would be a 4-5 hour drive.
I realize that only the far south end of East TN would be striking distance to Huntsville. I may end up looking further north along the East TN corridor, even into Johnson City or So. VA. I went to school in Blacksburg so as I get up that way I know the area well.
Mainly looking for an out-of-the way stable community that’s held it’s own against the big-box/sprawl nonsense, and that also has a decent growing season, say Middle Atlantic or better. Not too many places immune from slumburbia anymore but we keep looking. Thanks for your input.
You might like Johnson City. It is far enough from any major city to be that affected by the sprawl. It is right next to the Appalachian Trail and has some beautiful areas to visit. If you can telecommute reliably, it would be a nice smaller town. Otherwise, it doesn’t have much of an economy. Johnson City has a surprisingly active arts community.Lots of good music.
To add to this, Johnson City in my opinion is sort of like a slightly downtrodden version of Asheville,NC. Since Asheville is now kind of overpriced, I’d imagine JC will get ‘discovered’ at some point if it hasn’t already. I would definitely spend some time there first. I kind of dig the more backwoods cities, which JC sort of feels like. But if you’re not into that kind of thing, you might want to see what it is like beforehand.
We actually like the mix of old and new. It takes all types to make a community IMO. The progressives tend to bring an attractive and more forward-thinking aesthetic, and the older establishment tends to keep it down to earth.
That’s the case at least if everyone agrees to work together. Where I live presently (rural So. Central UT), the two extremes for the most part just look down their noses at each other, and there’s no progress. On top of that, two days ago it was well into the 80’s and today it’s snowing. My veggie seedlings just aren’t hip to that kind of thing.
When I first started ETSU in 1984, I was somewhat skeptical. But, I had a art scholarship. It took me a while, but I finally did scope out other individuals who were into the punk rock scene and we had our own little thing going on.
The locals weren’t quite sure what to make of us, but, they were pretty cool. They just thought we were funny looking, with our crazy hair and safety pins. Looking back, I’m sure we provided hours of entertainment and interesting dinner talk. I really enjoyed that part of Tennessee. We’d travel to Boone, Asheville and Knoxville on the weekends or, we’d just hang out camping near Roan Mtn., drinking and what not. The funny thing was we all loved this place called the Down Home, where bluegrass music prevalent. It was this interesting mix of people, who all got along wonderfully and open mic night was a scream.
Last I heard was that the retirees had discovered JC, and they were building big ol’ houses everywhere. But, I still think that area is lovely. I highly recommend it.
See my comments above on Hunstville. You will have no problem getting an engineering job there. They have just built a beautiful new center around a lake with all the aerospace/defense companies and a large outdoor center with good restrauants and upscale shops. I don’t think (but could be wrong) they had a big bubble run up in RE. Right next to the Space Camp north of the fwy.
Shoe, you’d leave Wonderland?
Wanna sell me your house?
When the time is right, absolutely. Either a house in town or 20 acres on the north side of Boulder Mtn with nothin’ but a well, or both. But I doubt we’ll do anything for at least another 12-24 months minimum so don’t get hopes up. A lot of particulars to work out, like what we’re going to do for a living, and will I be able to tele-commute or not.
With no mortage, it only costs $125/month (prop.tax, insurance, water and ‘lectric) to keep our house going. Probably another $75 in summer to have someone occasionally look after the outside watering. No automatic heat, we only heat with wood, so no propane bill. I can hold on to that burden for a good spell, while renting furnished somewhere else and seeing if things will work out, as the bubble deflates.
With your knowledge, you guys will do fine wherever you go. Solar is only going to get bigger, plus good engineers are worth a lot. Only way I’d live where you are is in the summer, though, too dang cold. But I love that place otherwise, so beautiful.
I live in Alabama now, i moved up here from Florida in 2005 after i sold all of my RE there. This place is not crashing and probably won’t because prices never skyrocket off the lakes like Florida did. This place is a lot less corrupt than Florida also, in so many ways.
these gov workers will ALL get raises - they are only off by 200-300 %
not bad for gov
Washington-based Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said Thursday that home prices fell 3.1 percent in the first quarter compared with last year. The index also fell 1.7 percent from the fourth quarter of 2007 to the first quarter of 2008, the largest quarterly price drop on record.
She is a typical Redneck who never got the memo that it works both ways:
Money Talks, Bullsheet Walks…..
Paying a tenant to move is usually a lot cheaper then evicting them through the courts!
———————
“But the Villas home belonged to Carl. She had saved the property from foreclosure and intended to use it as a rental. After she bought it, the resident refused to move for three months, meaning Carl lost all that possible rent income.”
Typical redneck, ahahaha, the typical redneck isn’t out to screw people like the typical NYC lowlife
One for those who long for the troll interaction, (and maybe a spelling challenge):
‘This blog should be a psycology project. Renters finally get their day in the sun and boy do they ham up their holier than thou attitides to compensate for the obivous insecurities within. Never mind they would have been better off buying in the 80s or early 90s hands down over renting.’
‘I myself am a proud fixed rate home owner in low cost housing market. Big down payment, large equity position for what that is worth, low interest rate and very secure high paying job (oh yeah - and lots of savings too). Thats just sensible.’
‘At the end of the day everyone would like to own a house at or under reasonable market value. This blog would not exist were that fact not true. It makes me laugh (and sad) to see people so hell bent on enjoying the misery of “stupid” others. Such people in my opinion are the scum of the scum - not the FBers. They are just stupid and clueless. Get a shrink people.’
As for the ‘This blog would not exist were that fact not true’, it’s BS. I started this blog to warn people I knew and to track a very interesting economic event.
“‘I myself am a proud fixed rate home owner in low cost housing market. Big down payment, large equity position for what that is worth, low interest rate and very secure high paying job (oh yeah - and lots of savings too). Thats just sensible.’”
“Such people in my opinion are the scum of the scum - not the FBers. They are just stupid and clueless.”
Whew, I’m glad these tidbits don’t exude a “holier than thou” attitude and “obvious insecurities within”.
I wish I was like that guy. Now what should I have done differently…..?
I should have been born a decade or two earlier. Sure messed that one up.
I should have got a high paying secure job. Never even considered that.
Luckily it’s not too late for me to belittle you rude HBBers for belittling people.
From now on, I will assume that every choice I made in the past is evidence that everyone else should make those same choices in the present and future. That’s just sensible.
And I will get a shrink.
Yeah, seriously. How the heck were some of us supposed to buy in the 80s or early 90s? Off my allowance? My high school math tutoring jobs? Oh, I know. I was supposed to use my college and law school debt as a down payment. Now I understand….
… and you wonder why such a ‘happy’ person would care to comment on a blog such as this if they are indeed so happy with their situation…
Bingo!
So they own, so what? I own too, but that doesn’t mean one stops listening and considering other arguments. Maybe he realizes the opportunity costs of his “large equity position”?
I own as well - but that doesn’t keep me from agreeing with most of the prevailing sentiments on this board.
Just because I’m on the ownership side of the equation doesn’t mean I can’t accept that we’ve managed to screw a significant part of our economy in the last decade or so.
I dunno why this guy thinks we’re attacking happy, responsible homeowners. We’re attacking morons who fueled the decoupling of the housing market from economic reality.
Of course, people who like to brag about how well-off they are on a message board obviously have other issues to worry about.
Never mind they would have been better off buying in the 80s or early 90s hands down over renting.
And not a single person on this blog would dispute that. I, however, was just out of college in the late 80s and while the attitude of young 20 somethings these days is I-deserve-it-all-NOW, buying a house was the furthest thing from my mind at that point. So thanks for the obvious advice nugget, Troll, but it doesn’t fit all situations here.
I myself am a proud fixed rate home owner in low cost housing market. Big down payment, large equity position for what that is worth, low interest rate and very secure high paying job (oh yeah - and lots of savings too). Thats just sensible.
Bravo, Troll! Well done. That’s all I want as well. I have that big down payment, secure job, savings, and sensibility. Let’s see what’s missing…oh yeah - the low cost housing market. Which is what brings me to this blog. To discuss the mess that is unaffordable housing.
So what is this idiot’s point, exactly? Ben, I can only imagine how many of these messages you must get. Do you ever respond to them?
I owned in the 80’s and 90’s. I own now, leverage-free.
There’s a lot of interesting opportunities in other locales for me to contribute my skills to various companies and, in normal times, raise my standard of living. But due to the housing bubble, those opportunies are, for all intents and purposes, being denied to me, to my prospective employers, and to and millions of others. Simply due to the naked greed and stupidity of wannabe mansion-owners, lenders, and realtors, that have bid up the prices of real estate to the point the relocating in many large regions of the country is simply foolish, no matter how much what kind of income I could potentially make. And now they’ve destroyed the economies in those regions to boot.
So yeah, I’m a little short on the sympathy side.
So if he’s sitting pretty with his big down payment, large equity position for what it’s worth, and high paying job, why the need to diss the posters on this blog?
Maybe he’s the one who needs to validate his own self-worth.
OK I’ve met my psychobabble quota for the day.
“I myself” “me thinks doth protest too much.”
sounds like an ‘ angry bitter owner ‘ lashing out at us. the price of Purina Squirrel Trail Mix probably went up & pissed him off.
res ipsa loquiter
I’ve been reading this blog for several years. It’s true that there are sometimes irresponsible and immature comments made here but for the most part I would say that we would applaud the author’s position as a successful home owner and saver. We just don’t like the bubble that was created under false pretenses and that has kept many of us from entering the market. So what? This is a place to learn. I’m here to figure out when the time to buy is finally right. What’s wrong with that?
While I disagree with the author’s conclusions, I do agree that this blog and others like it would be an interesting psychology project.
Blogging has exposed a great deal of hidden hate and I really wonder if and how that will change the world. Go to Fark.com sometime and read any thread about religion, politics, etc. You will find so much anger and hatred there it will scare you. There are even threads dedicated to expressing hatred towards children (whom they sarcastically call “precious snowflakes”) if said children dare to appear in restaurants or other places where the haters don’t want to be disturbed.
Maybe I am naive, but I don’t recall a time in communications history when so many people have been able to express anything they want anonymously and without consequence. Is it having an impact? I would think so.
I recently completed an online degree program. In each class we were required to participate in what were basically private blogs. Sometimes our discussions would become heated but I never read anything that crossed the lines of disrespect or hatred. I think the reason for that is that we were not anonymous. I wonder what this blog and Fark.com would be like if we were not anonymous?
This whole issue of hate-blogging is becoming harder and harder to ignore. One can’t even go to a newspaper’s web site to escape it….most have “comments” sections that are full of it too.
You make a very interesting and truthful observation. I myself am definitely no angel when it comes to blogs, but you nailed it on the head in regards to anonymity. I participate in motorsport events and am on a number of blogs for it. Everyone is extremely polite, helpful, and courteous. Why? Because we actually meet and race together, so you’d better keep it nice!
I think blogs like this serve a good purpose, which is to help build competence and knowledge. I also feel that the housing bubble brought out a lot of frustration in people. You have a lot of people here like myself who graduated in the late 90’s into a tech boom, whereas rents were astronomically high. After that had crashed and rents were lower and we had decent jobs, the second bubble inflated and then it wasn’t rent, but housing that we couldn’t afford. So the frustration comes from a protracted era of denying a huge number of people with logical finances the ability to live in the way that others just a few years prior were able to attain with less income. Part of that is entitlement from a long run of the middle class and what we probably expect per what our parents have. We do not like being denied what we feel we deserve. So blogs like this provided a good outlet for venting that frustration. I know I am frustrated mightily.
But indeed- blogs have created a whole new era of behavior in communication.
Maybe I am naive, but I don’t recall a time in communications history when so many people have been able to express anything they want anonymously and without consequence. Putting millions of monkeys at millions of keyboards has produced a lot of monkey feces, that’s no surprise.
‘I wonder what this blog and Fark.com would be like if we were not anonymous?’
I’ve never gone to Fark.com. I sometimes look at the comments after news articles but I usually don’t care enough to read more than two. In fact, this blog is the only one I look at, but I think the exchanges are quite civil, really. People get carried away, impassioned, sometimes provoke each other–I always yearn to try to provoke Jas Jain, for some reason he really really makes me want to tease him, but I don’t. (Sorry, if you read this Jas. It’s not you, it’s me. No, wait…yes, it IS you. It’s your fault, admit it.)
But really, I think posters on the HBB are are almost entirely quite well-educated, intelligent, and civilized.
That’s my .10 worth. (I charge more than two cents for my opinions.)
Which is how it should be.
Even intelligent ideas are at the end of the day espoused by humans with all their failings.
Me, I like to garnish my ideas with free side-servings of sarcastic humor. (My friends accuse me of treating intellectual argument as a blood-sport.)
But without that, we wouldn’t get a sense of the people behind the ideas, right?
I like when you talk about food.
Dirty or otherwise?
just excellent stuff like risotto and bread.
aren’t you the one who bakes bread?
(oh wait, I think I meant to post I like when you talk dirty)
*kidding*
I do. I love cooking actually. Make my own broth and all.
Would love to learn about actually growing stuff and all but I live in NYC.
Dirty food???? Don’t you wash your veggies?
Would love to learn about actually growing stuff and all but I live in NYC.
Faster:
does NYC have something similar -
City residents can indulge their green thumb
While I disagree with the author’s conclusions, I do agree that this blog and others like it would be an interesting psychology project.
But nowhere near as an interesting psycholgical subject as the ramifications of the of the decandant decline of the US standard of living hastened on by FIRE, oil and the conflagration of US taxpayer monies
Or say housing as an a direct or indirect investment…say Burn Baby…BURN
I really like the mix of opinions, and the wit and humor here. Pretty much the whole gamut of political and social world views. Sure beats the right wing and left wing echo chambers.
The right-wing blogs are in complete denial that there’s any economic downturn happening, it’s all part of the media conspiracy to hand the election to the Democrats. On the left wing, they’re not quite sure what’s going on, but if it’s bad it’s BushCheney’s fault. Or global warming. Or both. Hard to learn much of anything in either of those environments.
I was thinking about this myself the other day.
Why so much hate? I admit, where I noticed it is at dumb sites like tmz.com . . . . : )
If you read any comments there, they are generally full of how ugly, old, disgusting someone is. I think “what is the point? what do you have inside you that is coming out via this avenue?”
They hate people they don’t even know and shouldn’t really care about. I assume they are all 13 and have nothing better to do, but who knows? What is scary is if these are adult opinions and examples of daily thoughts of people we see all the time, but do not show this side of themselves to us.
I am thankful Ben spares us that stuff.
Numbnuts is full of shit. If he were truthful in that he has a “high paying job and lots of savings”, why the fawk does he have a mortgage payment?
TrollHolio needs to learn how to lie more convincingly. Nevertheless, I look forward to helping the invisible hand of the market drive comps down even further….. in a neighborhood near his.
Trollholio?
LOL. Nice one.
I need refi for my househole.
It makes me laugh (and sad) to see people so hell bent on enjoying the misery of “stupid” others.
Well, getcher self a Costco case of Kleenex, you word-torturing “stupid” other person, because you are gonna cry your bum off just based entirely on MY cruel enjoyment of FB misery, and that’s not even counting the enjoyment of anyone else on this blog.
(Oh, and thanks, Ben. Ahhh, it’s so nice to see a troll again. I missed them. I had assumed they were on on their knees behind dumpsters trying to make some gas money. But no, at least one is out there simply mangling language in a brutal, careless fashion.)
Me, me, me, I wanna be on your team, the Schadenfreude Team.
Pick me, pick me, pick me.
I’m more of a lurker, but I miss seeing the troll posts as well. Ben do you screen them out?
And I really miss Casey Serin, does anyone know if he is blogging anywhere?
I’m dying to know the source of that commentary and what locale that troll is from. It has such a familiar ring to it and there have been some invitations on our local newspaper’s RE forum to visit the hbb.
Wow… that really does anger me!
So, anyone who didn’t buy in the 1980’s or 1990’s should just accept being “priced out forever?” Yeah, that’ll work - nevermind how many of us were in high school (or grade school in the 1980’s) back then!
I also like the clown who admits that what we say here is true, but still bashes us. Duh!
you invest and Frank,Dodd and Shelby (GOP? WTF !!! )
bail you out
Shelby is one of the dem-rats that jumped ship when Newt changed the world.. conservatism in the GOP suffered major dilution..
–
“‘I myself am a proud fixed rate home owner in low cost housing market.”
Hey, troll, some of us HBBers are proud homeowners without any mortgage. 2/3rd of the mortgage-debtors, or 25-30% of all households, would find themselves in trouble. And many were suckered into bad purchases at ridiculous prices or they refied themselves into bad mortgages.
Jas
I’m a fixed rate home owner in an expensive housing market, why don’t I feel proud ?
Why would anyone be proud of what they bought unless as an indicator of quality recognized before the crowd did (such as being the first to buy a Van Gogh). You should take pride in the things you do or create.
I’m also perplexed by people who are proud of the accomplishments of parents or siblings (or embarrassed as the case may be). If it has nothing to do with your actions there is no cause for pride or embarrassment. Achievements, or failings, of relations other than children do not make you a better or worse person.
Amen, tuxedo!
**************
I’m also perplexed by people who are proud of the accomplishments of parents or siblings (or embarrassed as the case may be). If it has nothing to do with your actions there is no cause for pride or embarrassment. Achievements, or failings, of relations other than children do not make you a better or worse person.
“It looked like a sweet deal: Pull together some investors, build houses in Mississippi, rent them to low-income tenants and qualify for federal loans that won’t have to be repaid.”
“Hoffman, a dentist in the Sacramento area, owns four houses in Bayside Park. He became interested in Mississippi after learning of the dire need for affordable housing after Hurricane Katrina.”
No - you became interested when you thought there was FREE government money
How would a dentist from CA even know what constitutes “affordable” housing in rural MS? He probably spends more on getting his car detailed than the average rent down there.
“Never mind they would have been better off buying in the 80s or early 90s hands down over renting.”
I bought in the late 80s. I sold and bought again in 95. My third house was purchased in 2000 (for cash) and sold in 2007, at the peak of the market. I bought low and sold high on all three places and did very well.
That cash is in the bank, waiting for prices to come back down.
(My post was supposed to go under Ben’s post above.)
And I suspect the equity the troll thinks he has is evaporating as we speak.
“And I suspect the equity the troll thinks he has is evaporating as we speak.”
Yes, and that was his motivation for posting - fear and greed. If he stuck around for a while and actually read more than three HBB posts, he’d realize that very few posters here have a problem with folks who buy responsibly, i.e. large down payments, low fixed interest rates, long term horizon and extra money in the bank when the deal is made.
So sue me for wanting affordable (in line with incomes) housing.
Ha. I put 40% down and got a nice safe stodgy 15-year fixed at <6% rate.
My feeling about the whole ARM, balloon, whatever zoo was yuck, I don’t understand any of this and no one can give me a decent enough explanation so I can figure out the actual risk. Can I pay this 15-year even if all my other (lumpy) sources of income go to zero? Yes. OK, risk mitigated, we’ll go for it. (Was one of the reasons I didn’t go for a larger place.)
Next time I get a place I’m hoping to pay for it entirely in cash and avoid the whole mortgage fooraw entirely.
Bought,owned,sold several times.
Sold last when downsizing to accomodate -35% neg pay cut.
Prices way to high to get back into ownership. Frankly, I currently enjoy not having to pay electricity on pool maintenance and gardener and trash pick up etc. Communal trees provide ample citrus fruit during winter for free.
As HBB posters have educated for us, as soon as ownership is much less than renting…
Never mind they would have been better off buying in the 80s or early 90s hands down over renting.’
Never mind the idiocy of suggesting I should’ve bought a house back when I was still in high school, or that this has anything to do with the housing market all these years later.
I know I would have been better off if my great-grandfather had held on to that 160 acres of logged-over stumps in Leelanau County, Michigan that he sold for $5. Property is worth many millions today.
Are we related?
LOL
My great grandfather, a degenerate gambler, pissed away the family ranch (about 1/2 of what is now Fillmore and Santa Paula). His grandpa actually made a fortune in the gold rush and bought the ranch. Drive down 126 from SP to Fillmore, just about everything on the right including that little mountain range.
Oh well. Here in Santa Barbara there are still some old families with huge land holdings, some going back to the Spanish Land Grants. Must be nice being a 8th or 9th generation gentleman rancher.
Oh gawd. My fil gave away some inherited property in VT because of access issues. Did it, told us about it and then said, “oh, I never thought to ask either of my children if they perhaps wanted it.”
That was a hard day as we liked the area.
“At the end of the day everyone would like to own a house at or under reasonable market value.”
Er, sorry Charlie, but I can’t see myself ever buying a home unless the buy-versus-rent calculation made sense….and even then, I would have to think twice b/c, like several have commented already on this blog, mobility is going to be a necessity for many people due to slowing local economies….. I mean, who wants to let their current, overpriced $400K house be the single impediment to taking a better job in another city? No thanks….!
Look into telecommuting, if you can; it’s the best hedge against changing economy, rising gas prices, housing and food supply, whatever life throws. Huzzah for technology!
i like that .. What sort of companies would be most willing and able to shift a large percentage of workers to telecommuting?
afaik, it seems that since it benefits the worker much more than the company, very little effort has gone into it so far..
What sort of companies would be most willing and able to shift a large percentage of workers to telecommuting?
Um….quite a few. The question should really be, what sort of company would be willing to use telecommuter based in the US when they can save money by using ones overseas.
If you can telecommute to your job, so can someone from Chindia for less money.
my guess is companies that save money going offshore have already done it, or are somehow deterred from doing it.
the list is narrowed down to companies that must use locals for some reason, or perhaps need an employee’s physical presence at work for a day or two per week.
“But the Villas home belonged to Carl. She had saved the property from foreclosure and intended to use it as a rental. After she bought it, the resident refused to move for three months, meaning Carl lost all that possible rent income.”
I glad to see some MSM coverage of knife-catching! And this is knife-catching extraordinaire–bought from foreclosure, unable to rent, and headed right back for foreclosure.
If this worms its way into the collective psyche, the correction will move along faster and be done sooner.
“‘The bar business is recession proof. Nobody likes to drink alone. People at bars are either celebrating or commiserating,’ Belden said.”
Nope, sorry, wrong again, realtards.
You may be throwing your $$$ into a bottomless pit going to drink-serving school.
Some prefer to be by themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysXMAOgEIq4
That is true, the bar i pass on the way home from work is lucky to have 10 people there on the weekends, less during the week. They can be lumped in with the sandwich shop/beauty parlor/bar strip malls that will be going under.
Well, do renters drink more or loan owners? With the over abundence of loan owners, maybe the industry is shifting
Darn right!
NYCityboy alone accounts for 10% of that.
These agents-turned-bartenders ought to realize that in a bar it’s the customers that cry and tell the sob stories - not the other way around!
“Hey buddy, what’ll ya have? Did I ever tell you about the year I first broke six figures in commissions?”
The bars they tend will be ghostowns.
Yeah, i used to be a salesman, it’s a tough racket. lol
..
Good to see the “get rich quick” crowd returning to the works that they are better suited to.
Most of these Realtor(tm) asshat types ended up being Realtors(tm) because they had no formal training…or other, more significant, career options. This so-called Realtor(tm) “profession” has a very low barrier to entry and thus attracted the many gullible “easy money” types.
It was like paying a sh!t shoveler $100,000 K /yr to be…well…a sh!t shoveler. It was unfair.
Well, those “$-happy-$” times are over. They shoulda learned a useful trade or gotten a formal education….like most of the rest of us did.
I have cash and I will be buying here in FL in the next two years. When I do, I will not use a Realtor(tm)…..I refuse to. I will not be financing the lifestyles of the Rich and Famous; nor will I be funding the retirements of these non-”professionals”.
Also, when I go out to drink, I usually do most of my drinking back at home before I go out ( its cheaper )…so when I order drinks at the bar I only have one or two.
Looks like the Realtors(tm)-turned-bartenders won’t be getting much in the way of tips from me.
..
“Some were buying multiple properties, but then… ‘In the last year, the property values have fallen so the people that were flipping properties are now just walking away,’ said Hess.”
I wonder how many forclosures were owned by flippers who had more than one forclosure. I met someone a few years ago who was flipping homes, as a side business. (He ended up having problems with his day job, too.) It’s probably easy for them to over-extend themselves just like the developers did. They make a load of money for a few years, and instead of pocketing it and being happy with their profit, they just keep going and going –until the selling comes to a dead stop.
“‘The bar business is recession proof. Nobody likes to drink alone. People at bars are either celebrating or commiserating,’ Belden said.”
Baloney, 7 bucks for a jack and Coke. 5 bucks for a beer. I’ll drink at home.
“When I drink alone I prefer to be by myself”
“When I drink alone I prefer to be by myself”
Just me and my pal Johnny Walker, and his brothers black and red. We drink alone.
Did you ever see the great Harvey Keitel ad for Johnny Walker? This was playing on BBC World in late 2001 and early 2002. Powerful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqAM2-7dvGI
Floridians, and Floridian Watchers,
A friend just called and asked if there is a website for Florida like the one in Massachusetts, http://www.masslandrecords.com. It’s run by the state and you can view mortgages, sales docs, tax liens, basically all the public docs.
I’ve looked, but nothing jumps out at me as a good, main site to use.
Does anyone know if Florida has a good site for that?
Thanks.
They’re available county by county. Just do a search for County Property Appraiser and you’ll be able to find the tax records on any property. Then, you can search by owner’s name under public records in the County Clerk of Court website.
I haven’t seen a county in Florida that doesn’t have both available online for no charge.
Florida has great online records. I think the closest thing for a statewide search is http://www.myfloridacounty.com (go in as a non-subscriber). It has record indexes for all filed documents, so it’s not just real estate. However you can’t view the actual document (at least I know you can’t without a paid subscription). Every county in Florida has online assessor records and most seem to have online recording offices.
http://publicrecords.netronline.com/ Here’s another link to get you started. Start a the link, go to Florida, and identify the county. There are links to both the assessor, recorder, and tax office for most counties in Florida there.
Anybody know where I can get these records for CA, assuming they are available?
Thanks.
Thanks guys. I was coming up with some sites that looked like hoaxes and scams. This is a help.
“Now Carl is in trouble with the mortgage on the investment home that was supposed to help pay the bills. ‘I’m stuck with this albatross,’ she said.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_u7VGiMO0U
I sold all my Florida RE to gready boomers, i don’t feel sorry for them. I hope prices crash far enough so the younger generation can afford a ho use again. Also, Smith lake in Alabama is awesome, in fact it’s the third cleanest in the country. Best state to live in IMO.