May 29, 2008

A Chance To Buy Today At Tomorrow’s Prices

The Daily Business Review reports from Florida. “The owners of Villa Mare, a failed residential condo conversion project in Boca Raton, have seen the property’s debt balloon from about $50 million to more than $70 million since last year. The debt is growing at the rate of $21,000 per day because of interest charges. The development, which NRW purchased in 2006, has two five-story buildings, boat slips and ocean access.”

“It was expected to generate about $90 million in sales with units averaging more than $550,000.”

“In general, it’s not uncommon for the senior lender to opt for the foreclosure, said Jeff Bast, (an) attorney who represents NRW. He added that many condo developers with troubled projects are grappling with the issue of accumulating interest.”

“‘Default interest can accumulate very quickly and dramatically increase the amount of the debt obligation,’ he said.”

“But that only compounds the developer’s problems, he said. ‘If they are under water to begin with, in some situations it may not matter,’ he said.”

The Miami Herald. “Coldwell Banker might seem the least likely sort of business to take a page from the marketing manual of the car dealer’s factory blowout or a Memorial Day mattress sale. But for the prestigious real estate brokerage, desperate times call for desperate measures.”

“Last week, South Florida’s largest real estate firm started hyping its own version of a door-buster sale that starts Sunday. Prices on hundreds of homes, mostly in Miami-Dade and Broward counties, will be slashed by at least 10 percent.”

“Like most sales events, the discounts are good for a limited time only, in this case 10 days — or, presumably, while supplies last!”

“Gus Rubio, senior VP of Coldwell Banker for Southeast Florida, said the firm was simply offering the public a unique chance to ‘buy today at tomorrow’s prices.’ ‘Everybody that is analyzing the market is saying that prices have the possibility of [falling] further,’ Rubio said.”

“If a test sale hosted by the firm in Tampa a few months ago is any indication, buyers should respond positively. Rubio said of 847 participating sellers, 70 got their homes under contract.”

“To participate, sellers with homes listed at $750,000 or below must reduce their asking price by 10 percent; those with more expensive homes can start with 5 percent cuts. No short-sale deals or bank-owned properties are allowed because administrative obstacles make discounting them tricky.”

“‘For a lot of sellers, this was not a program for them because they were upside down,’ Rubio said.”

“With concerns of further price declines keeping many on the sidelines, the sale would seem to answer skepticism that the time to buy has not yet arrived — a difficult thing to do, said Doug DeWitt, a Miami real estate agent.”

“‘When we get to buy-one, get-one-free, then we’re really in trouble,’ he said.”

The Sun Sentinel. “Roughly 400 homes and condominiums in Palm Beach County are participating in the event that starts Sunday, with an average price reduction of 9.1 percent. In Broward County, there are about 300 properties participating at an average price drop of 9.5 percent.”

“‘For the buyer, it’s going to be a huge incentive,’ said Rubio.”

“Its success will depend on whether the asking prices were fair to begin with, said Miami-based housing analyst Lewis Goodkin. ‘If the prices were realistic, then buyers will respond,’ he said.”

“But competing real estate agents are skeptical. ‘It’s meaningless. It’s hype,’ said Bob Melzer of Prudential Florida WCI Realty in Boynton Beach. ‘No serious home buyer falls for that. He offers what he wants to offer.’”

“The median price in Broward fell 18 percent to $298,100 last month, the first time the county’s median has been below $300,000 since October 2004. The median in Palm Beach County in April was $314,000, down 17 percent from $376,300 a year ago.”

“With the city seeing more than 1,800 foreclosures this year alone, Coral Springs officials mulled over a law to accelerate the code enforcement process for vacant and abandoned properties.”

“‘Foreclosures are increasing by 10 percent every month. Lender owned properties have increased 40 percent this year,’ said Erdal Donmez, assistant city manager.”

“Vice Mayor Vince Boccard said the city should consider neighborhood house watch, which is along the same lines as neighborhood crime watch. ‘Abandoned houses can become clubhouses for neighboring kids,’ he said.”

From CBS 4.com. “CBS4 News encountered half a dozen people on a Ft. Lauderdale neighborhood trying to sell or rent their homes. Many are stuck, and everyone is left wondering how low things still have to go during this recession.”

“‘We don’t have the funds to pay the mortgage,’ said Nathan Cohen.”

“Cohen and his family are among dozens of South Floridians who attended a workshop Tuesday night to get help saving their home. It is another sign of a deeply troubled housing market. New numbers show Miami Dade and Broward home prices dropped by a quarter over this time last year.”

“For the Cohens, and so many others, it’s their personal disaster. ‘We don’t pay the credit cards. We pay the minimums if we can. Since my wife doesn’t work we try to survive on my salary,’ said Cohen.”

The News Journal. “Neighbors say an oceanfront timeshare condominium damaged by hurricanes in 2004 continues to be an eyesore but the city’s code board has ended its case against the Ocean Palms Beach Club.”

“‘I live just to the south of this disaster. I’ve been looking at this thing for four solid years,’ said Hill Street resident William Hoffmeister. ‘The city just keeps putting it off. Nothing is being done. (Ocean Palms is) doing the minimal amount of work there that can be done.’”

“‘Everybody’s ticked off because it’s taken so long to fix,’ said Attorney Edward Beazley, representing Ocean Palms. ‘We’ve explained why it’s taken so long to fix. It was a timeshare and everybody walked away.’”

The Herald Tribune. “Sales of new homes showed some life in April, but it was life at one of the lowest levels of activity in nearly two decades.”

“There have been indications of improvement in Southwest Florida real estate…but calling a bottom is problematic with the huge overhang in inventory that built up during the recent housing boom.”

“Some home builders are seeing a spike in sales - albeit at deep discounts - but others complain that they are still competing largely with the overhanging inventory. Just in the Sarasota MLS there are 12,000 homes and condominiums for sale compared with a pre-boom level in the 2,500 range.”

“Overshadowing everything is the question of where prices stand, builders say. ‘A lot of people were waiting to see if prices were going to go any lower,’ said Lee Wetherington of Lakewood Ranch-based Lee Wetherington Homes.”

“For Pat Neal, president of Lakewood Ranch-based Neal Communities, the answer to the bottom question was February. That is not to say the sales that he has made since then - sometimes at very low prices - are generating a profit.”

“The deals out there - Neal is selling homes for as low as $146,900 - will not last long, as demand increases along with the prices of fuel, wood and other items needed to build a house, he said.”

“‘I’m currently giving away some houses to move the land, but eventually prices will go up and I’m going to put some profit in there,’ said Neal, who has built more than 7,300 homes in Sarasota and Manatee counties since 1970.”

The Naples News. “It was a surprise when Robert Toll, CEO of Toll Brothers, recently gave Naples an ‘A’ rating in his financial update. He had previously given Southwest Florida failing grades in new-home sales.”

“Toll regularly grades the markets in which the company invests. Here are some of the grades he gave: Florida Central - F-plus, Florida East - F-minus, Florida North - F.”

“When asked to elaborate on his optimistic grade for Southwest Florida, Toll said, ‘It’s just one market; it’s not a huge market. But it gave us some happy times, especially considering that Naples was one of the worst markets that we had. A year ago, you couldn’t give a house away in Naples… And so we practically did give some homes away, I guess, in order to get rid of our specs.’”

From Law Jobs.com. ” In another sign of the hard times facing the legal industry, particularly in real estate-heavy south Florida, two law firms — Holland & Knight and Shutts & Bowen — have laid off nonlawyer staffers.”

“On a day that could be dubbed ‘Black Friday’ in south Florida legal circles, Holland & Knight, one of Florida’s largest and most venerable firms with 1,150 lawyers, laid off 70 staffers on May 16, including legal secretaries, information technology and accounting staff.”

“No lawyers were laid off.”

“The news comes on the heels of a decision announced internally on May 16 by Fort Lauderdale, Fla.-based Becker & Poliakoff to temporarily and immediately cut all lawyer salaries by 12 percent. The firm, which is heavy in condo and real estate representation, said it was forced to take the action since clients are delaying payment in the lean economic environment.”

“Carl Schuster, managing partner of Fort Lauderdale-based Ruden McClosky, acknowledged his 175-lawyer firm is experiencing ‘a slowdown.’”

“‘Because we do a lot of real estate work, we do have a slowdown,’ he said. ‘Fortunately, we do so much work in other areas, including workouts, bankruptcy and litigation. Like Becker & Poliakoff, we are having trouble getting some of our developer clients to pay. But they’ve been good to us, so we try to be good to them.’”

From US News and World Report. “No matter what you think about the controversial housing legislation moving through Congress, at least we can all agree there just hasn’t been enough TV coverage of the nation’s foreclosure epidemic.”

“So, for all of you begging for a closer look at a process that’s now shattering communities, gutting home values, and threatening to drag the entire country into a recession, meet real estate agent Tom Bruzzesi, the star of The Foreclosure Shoppe-a new realty/reality TV show focusing on Florida’s treacherous real estate market.”

“From the press release: In each episode of ‘The Foreclosure Shoppe,’ camera crews follow Tom on a typical wild and crazy day at the office. Tom (affectionately nicknamed ‘The Maniac’ by his peers) confesses that he is a master at frustrating people.”

“‘I know how to get underneath their skin and throw off their bidding strategies,’ Tom admits. From irritating bidders at the courthouse, to walking through his purchased properties for the first time, to evicting tenants that won’t leave, to picking up his large paychecks, viewers get an inside pass to witness Tom navigating through the messy foreclosure process.’”




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115 Comments »

Comment by packman
2008-05-29 07:16:17

So - tell me again why I should buy something on sale today, knowing the price will come down later to the now-sale-price later (and probably drop even further than that afterwards)?

Comment by JP
2008-05-29 07:37:07

And that is EXACTLY deflationary thinking (at least, when you apply it far and wide, not just to housing.)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-05-29 08:13:41

Yep, and it’s going to happen to just about any discretionary consumer good too.

Comment by polly
2008-05-29 09:25:52

Is that why I keep putting off a bunch of large ticket purchases that I would like to make? I knew it had to be something.

Stuff I really want:
Bicycle
One of those cute little external hard drives to use as a backup device
22 inch flat panel computer monitor
New sofa
LCD TV (substantially larger than the 19 inch 20+ year old set that I am using now)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-29 09:46:21

Stuff I really want:

A motorcycle.
More books. I only have the two tons or so.
A lilac plant.
A pallet of candy.

Hmmm. I guess that’s it.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 09:50:10

I want a decent house that I can afford, financial security, and a lot more free time…and a dog.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-29 09:53:04

And some Twizzlers, as I just ran out, I see. Oh, and some rum! Gosh, yes, what AM I thinking?! Rum, too.

 
Comment by JP
2008-05-29 09:55:01

Stuff I really want:

I can’t figure out if that’s inflationary or deflationary.

 
Comment by oxide
2008-05-29 10:02:43

Hey Polly, why not combine the computer monitor with the TV? Then you could do Excel spreadsheets on a 42″ plasma. Or just get a TV card for the computer and watch TV on the LCD monitor. The ‘puter should have an input jack for cable TV and speakers.

 
Comment by serling
2008-05-29 10:23:37

I’m with NoSingleOne on the wants section, except would like to adopt the dog.

 
Comment by polly
2008-05-29 10:28:53

Umm…because I am so pathetic I want to be able to surf the web while watching junk on TV from across the room? Seriously. The way I have my furniture set up now, I can only listen to the TV while at my desk. I want to be able to just briefly turn my head to see if something interesting is going on. I have to dump the old IKEA TV hutch and reorganize a bunch of bookshelves and a few other things, but with a nice big TV I should be able to see it easily from the desk across the room as well as the sofa. I’m thinking 46-48 inches would be ideal, but I’ll look at the 42s.

And I think that Excel at anything close to 42 inches would scare me. Really. That is too much. Plus, my computer is a desktop and it is illegal to put a wireless card in my office laptop so I don’t even have a wifi set up. Just a hard wire router to split the signal from the cabel modem. Very low tech.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-05-29 10:35:21

LOL. My television also has a 19-inch screen. It is 17 years old. Two roomates and I bought it when we were in school, and when we graduated I bought out their shares.

 
Comment by aqius
2008-05-29 10:48:29

snake charmer

I see yer 17 yr old set & raise you a 19″ Toshiba that has a screen defect that makes the upper 2 inches stretch upwards …. peoples heads look like the coneheads.

bought it used and never really noticed it at first until some time later a visitor asked “whats up with the heads?” I had to look closely to see what he was talking about. ok, so it has been on the fix-it list for . . . “awhile”.

great TV though, w/external stereo speakers, etc. Light enough to move without getting a hernia & the Toshiba brand makes it super-easy to synch with new remotes for cable, vcrs, and more. definately a good backup TV.

oh yeah, I forgot, there are those newfangled things called DVD players. ah well, maybe after the brick cellphone finally gives out.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-29 11:06:26

Aqius! Yer funny.

‘bought it used and never really noticed it at first until some time later a visitor asked “whats up with the heads?” I had to look closely to see what he was talking about. ok, so it has been on the fix-it list for . . . “awhile”.’

Maybe a good alternative would be to simply ask all your visitors to wear a special helmet thingie–that you would have made from paper mache, while drunk last week or whenever–that makes them appear to have cone heads of their own. That way, see, you avoid the cognitive dissonance of teevee people looking different from meat people.
Also, I just like helmets.

 
Comment by polly
2008-05-29 11:07:27

I got rid of a 20 inch TV that still worked because it looked like Peter Jennings was having severe liver failure - very yellow. And I finally got rid of grandpa’s old sony trinitron (color, but no remote of any kind) because some sort of chemical kept dripping down the front of the screen. This one is a Sears, I think. My brother gave it to me when he got a 27 inch set.

I did have a nice large CRT TV for a while. It dies after 10 years.

 
Comment by JP
2008-05-29 11:25:29

I got rid of a 20 inch TV that still worked because it looked like Peter Jennings was having severe liver failure - very yellow.

And just how did you rule out that Peter Jennings is NOT having severe liver failure? Maybe his other name is NYCityBoy.

 
Comment by polly
2008-05-29 12:07:09

Good point.

 
 
 
 
Comment by zeropointzero
2008-05-29 08:02:16

Because at least you’ll feel smart for at least the 3 to 6 months the rest of the market takes to get down to your purchase price !!! In other words - enjoy the summer and pretend you got a “deal” - because everyone loves getting a deal.

No kidding - I had to read his sentance a couple times to really understand that he was actually acknowledging the market was dropping, and using that as part of his sales pitch. It seems so stupid that it’s actually probably genius - maybe it WILL work on the kinds of brilliant minds looking to buy in a still-plummeting, still-overpriced market.

 
Comment by joe momma
2008-05-29 10:25:47

I’ll wait for the “day after tomorrow pricing”, thank you.

Comment by mikey
2008-05-29 11:20:05

“Like most sales events, the discounts are good for a limited time only, in this case 10 days — or, presumably, while supplies last!”

“What time does the train leave?”

“I DON’T want to miss the NEXT trainwreck” :)

Comment by mikey
2008-05-29 11:41:00

“On a day that could be dubbed ‘Black Friday’ in south Florida legal circles, Holland & Knight, one of Florida’s largest and most venerable firms with 1,150 lawyers, laid off 70 staffers on May 16, including legal secretaries, information technology and accounting staff.”

“No lawyers were laid off.”

Wow…All those hungry sharks swimming around together…and NO SMALL FRYS to EAT.

Bawahahah…FOOD FIGHT ! :)

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Comment by aqius
2008-05-29 12:03:04

tempted to call some of those law firms just to get a chuckle listening to the pompous attorneys trying to run the phone lines. however, I bet everything goes to voicemail. also bet they hire low wage temps for support staff replacements after the disgruntled rainmaker billables nosedive in protest.

hey, speaking of desperate temps, you might possibly encounter yer former realtor as a law firm phone jockey while calling for legal matters. perfect time say ” remember that real estate you advised always goes up . . unlke yer paycheck? now is a GREAT TIME to transfer me to lawsuits & litigation.”

just realize the partners reap huge payoffs at fiscal year end. dont like it? feel free to give notice & go spin a sign, mr/ms associate.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-29 07:17:48

“See Naples and die”

(saying from the old country)

“When asked to elaborate on his optimistic grade for Southwest Florida, Toll said, ‘It’s just one market; it’s not a huge market. But it gave us some happy times, especially considering that Naples was one of the worst markets that we had. A year ago, you couldn’t give a house away in Naples… And so we practically did give some homes away, I guess, in order to get rid of our specs.’”

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 07:47:19

Hasn’t Ben inundated us with data for months now about how SW Florida (Tampa, etc.) is completely f*cked real estate-wise?

What is this guy smoking? Creating your own silver lining, Mr. Toll?

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-29 08:11:47

Toll House Brownies, perhaps?

 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-05-29 10:55:32

The other day I was talking with someone who claimed that great masses of Germans were flying to southwest Florida on Lufthansa for purposes of buying houses. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I didn’t ask the guy why Germans would possibly have interest in buying there, but we’ve had stories on this blog about Canadians taking advantage of their currency to stupidly buy up exurban Phoenix, so before I rebuked him I wanted to investigate.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-29 11:11:41

der Loanwaffe

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Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2008-05-29 12:12:40

I have relatives visiting from Germany. I sent them down the coast to Sanibel, Naples and over to Islamorada, before taking a quick tour of Key West and Fort Jefferson. They haven’t mentioned “buying” anything right now, but they are probably looking.
It would make perfect sense. The dollar is worth .66 to the Euro, an all-time low, and with Bernanke in charge, it may get pushed into oblivion.
So, a 25-30% reduction in price, followed by another 33% reduction in currency exchange makes a good buy. Try a $250,000 peak price: Reduce 30%, new price is 175,000. Buy in Euros: $117,250.
That’s better than 50% off.
Prices rose 100% or better. 50% off peak is the buy range. This seems like a reasonable assumption, except that there is soooo much stuff, it is a little frightening to lay out the cash.

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Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 13:19:50

Two words. CARRYING COSTS. If someone gave you a $400K house in Tampa on the water you would lose money each month renting it out because of taxes and insurance.

 
Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 14:22:02

I didn’t write this. Is there suddenly another Incredulous in Tampa?

 
Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 16:25:15

No, I don’t think there is.

 
Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 20:02:25

Funny.

 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-05-29 10:57:50

And Floridians not caught up in the housing bubble have a grade to give Mr. Toll: F-you.

 
 
Comment by NeilT
2008-05-29 07:21:11

“But competing real estate agents are skeptical. ‘It’s meaningless. It’s hype,’ said Bob Melzer of Prudential Florida WCI Realty in Boynton Beach. ‘No serious home buyer falls for that. He offers what he wants to offer.’”

It is interesting that the RE agents have realized the supremacy of the buyer. The buyer has always called the shots except during recent fraud-years (It wasn’t even an honest bubble, it was simply a huge fraud!) Agents are competing for business and finding fault with each other. Eventually things will be back to normal in the RE land.

Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 07:51:02

“It wasn’t even an honest bubble, it was simply a huge fraud!”

Neil, the further we delve into this thing the more exactly that is playing out. From the dirt they were built on to the final “You’re Approved” nearly every transaction had an element of fraud and in some cases… fraudulent from start to finish. Unreal isn’t it.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 07:26:06

Ahem, “The Foreclosure Shoppe”

Sounds lovely. Is this what happens as the progression from “girlie mags” to hardcore manifests itself? So now we’re supposed to follow some “Maniac” around like a housing bounty-hunter as he evicts failed flippers and FB’s? What have we sunk to?

Comment by exeter
2008-05-29 07:30:30

I kind of like the idea. I always skip over this BS house selling shows but I might tune into this one. It will make for a great reality check for the RE koolaide inebriated retards too.

Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 07:40:31

exeter,

(Yeah, um… what channel is it on?)

I’m sure there will be plenty of guilty pleasures to be had I just thought it was funny how much things have changed in a relatively short period of time.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-29 08:06:03

I’m rather curious myself.

What I think should happen is for ‘The Foreclosure Shoppe’ to be picked up by the same networks that show ‘Flip this House’ etc. and then sandwich the episodes. Back and forth, back and forth; see, like a delicious BLT of fear and doom and confused craziness. Drug companies and psychiatrists could advertise Paxil commercials and counseling throughout and become fabulously wealthier.

Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 08:18:31

Olygal,

Oh no doubt this would have entertainment value! It will be a soap opera, repo man, housing/economic debacle rolled into one! Then they can franchise it just like “CSI” and have a Foreclosure Shoppe in Vegas, Phoenix etc!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-29 09:58:44

Franchise? You’re a genious!
The star of every one of them would have to have ‘huge, visible scars on his head’, same as this Tom Bruzzesi guy has, and hopefully a really trashy tarted up girfriend named ‘Madysin’ who sometimes rides along and gets into drunken fights with hookers and forlorn evictees.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2008-05-29 07:59:18

At last, one reality-show that I may be able to watch.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-05-29 08:59:14

My first though was “Oh good” when I read about this show, but did you all catch this part?

“From irritating bidders at the courthouse, to walking through his purchased properties for the first time, to evicting tenants that won’t leave, to PICKING UP HIS LARGE PAYCHECKS, viewers get an inside pass to witness Tom navigating through the messy foreclosure process.’”

Sounds to me like the sub-text for this show is to encourage more knife-catchers to try to make money from the foreclosures!

Ah, well, I guess we need knife-catchers for price discovery…

Comment by oxide
2008-05-29 10:05:59

Yup, I saw that. Unflip this house! Make a lot of money encouraging knife catchers to buy foreclosures, to up demand and stop prices from falling.

 
Comment by aqius
2008-05-29 10:35:43

if I wanted to watch someone irritate & piss-off people for no other reason than for their own warped pleasure, I’d watch some reruns of Armando Montelongo. however, the foreclosure aspect of this particular show might be informative.

it’s kinda funny how all the other TV flippers seem to have ZERO problems with their subs, paperwork, families, etc.
obviously ‘ol Armando keeps that large chip on his shoulder handy as an excuse to rant. heck, he even brags about his alleged terrible broken past as the flimsy justification to browbeat beat everyone.

when I personally encountered someone’s bad attitude on a job, my motto was; ” look Pal, I didn’t create yer past problems, so check yer attitude & I can help you solve them, or you can just take an effin hike! ”

worked every time.

(and by the end of the transaction they were apologizing & thanking me profusely/ offering me a job, yadda yadda. uh, yeah, like I WANT to work with you, Mr. Short-Fuse Fireceracker! money is NOT my prime motivation in life. no thanks, I’d rather dig ditches than endure someone’s pointless tirades. also notice Armando doesnt dish it out to anyone other than those who are virtually helpless to respond, like the illegal crews. thats the definition of a bully. a cowardly one, too.)

Comment by crisrose
2008-05-29 11:41:35

“thats the definition of a bully. a cowardly one, too”

Typical of your sociopathic real estate con artist.

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 07:29:02

“Holland & Knight, one of Florida’s largest and most venerable firms with 1,150 lawyers, laid off 70 staffers on May 16, including legal secretaries, information technology and accounting staff.”

“No lawyers were laid off.”

They don’t have to fire the lawyers…they’re going to be pretty miserable and leave on their own: No secretarial support, limited IT, and more billing irregularities for auditors to feast on.

Management is so stupid. But then law is a profession that can bill hourly, so making their employees less efficient will actually make them more profitable.

Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 07:47:28

NoSingleOne, I owe you and others an apology for my comments regarding Congressional Democrats and the Iraq War vote. I mis-remembered astoundingly, in keeping with my pseudonym. Even more astounding to me, is that I could incorrectly remember something that big that happened only six years ago. I guess because I was against the war for non-ideological reasons (I figured it would be like poking a stick into a hornets’ nest), I held everyone in Congress accountable.

I did recently read an article quoting many current anti-war Democrats who originally voted for the war, or who openly spoke in favor of war and regime change in Iraq. This article may have played into my poor memory.

In any event, please accept my apology.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-05-29 08:19:05

Those kind were around even during our own war for independence. Thomas Paine used the terms “summer soldier” and sunshine patriot.”

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 09:55:36

No need to apologize. I don’t take the online pissing contests too seriously and hopefully you don’t either. Sometimes I enjoy intellectually bullying the tools and the dumb kids and then eating their lunch. Other than that, I’m a nice guy.

Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 14:33:24

Thanks NoSingleOne. I need to stop putting my foot in my mouth, and aim it, instead, at a few thousand realtors’ backsides. I’m going to return to my normal pattern of observing without taking sides on political issues.

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Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-05-29 07:49:57

I’d like to small claims raised to 75$K- then the truth could come out for the “victims” and the taxpayers wouldn’t have to hold the bag

Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 08:29:23

taxmeupthebooty,

Problem SOLVED!

I am absolutely *not* kidding! Simply appoint a judge in each district to hear nothing BUT mortgage/RE fraud cases and let these players have at it in a special court.

A post like your’s is bound to draw the comedian in all of us but what you say makes a lot of sense. And it’s where these cases belong. Any fraud OVER 75k would go before a regular civil judge. How long would it take before the judge looks bored, has heard it all a thousand times before and when he’s done simply bangs the gavel and says “Next Case”?

Of all the things we’ve discussed ( taming the tax code and saying NO to the bail-out ) this should take an equal spot on the stage. Well said Sir.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-05-29 09:57:18

McC or someone should offer this the 500+ lawyers in Congress would object , but aside from cancer it’s an upper middle class persons greatest threat to success

I’m sueing Exeter and others as soon as they get some $$$

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Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 10:51:01

taxmeupthebooty,

We can add this to the “learning experience” of the “victims”. Thus far it’s been no harm, no foul. Well how has there been “no foul”?!

Billions of dollars just “fell through the cracks” without seeking any form of legal remedy? This is where the conversation ’should’ have started, not with a bail-out.

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2008-05-29 12:39:58

Not going to happen.
Stealing and Fraud have been ruled by the Courts as perfectly acceptable, so long as the Lender willing went along with no due dilligence.
I just read a story this morning. A Bankruptcy Judge allowed to serial re-finance crooks to keep their winnings and will discharge the claims of the lender. Why?
Although it was obvious that the appraisals, claims of income and other pertinent facts were at odds with the loan, the lender did not make any real effort to assure that the borrower could actually, or ever intended to, repay the loan.
Therefore, the Lender must have looked to the asset value of the property as it’s sole recovery in the event of default.
Borrower’s took $100,000’s out of the “equity”, spent it, and came back for more. The Lender gladly gave it to them.
While I think this sets a terrible precedent, the decision was thusly rendered. In some ways it makes sense. In a prior court case here in Florida concerning some taking or public property for private use, the Court ruled in favor of the taker.
Why? The court said the State had a responsibility to guard its interests. While the grabbing was going on, the State sat “idly by” and did nothing to enforce its claim to the property. I suspect the same reasoning is going on here: It is obvious to the Court that the Lender never really expected to recover the loan. It didn’t bother to check ANY of the claims made in the loan documents and simply assumed them to be true. Lack of diligence?
You bet. Notice to Bank: If you want us to enforce your claims, you better make some effort to obtain factual information. You get the house back.

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Comment by hubrispie
2008-05-29 09:36:28

I would assume that there will be no stated layoffs of lawyers since that is very bad press for the firm. Rather, they will leave on their own as they are given more and more work until they puke or are told that they are no longer valued at the firm. Take the hint…. Leave now since you will never make partner here… By the way, that means we do not have to pay a severance, unemployment, etc.

Comment by kpom
2008-05-29 09:53:08

Traditional law firm practice is that no lawyers will be fired - but a lot of associates will suddenly discover that they are being terminated “for cause”.

 
Comment by kpom
2008-05-29 09:53:10

Traditional law firm practice is that no lawyers will be fired - but a lot of associates will suddenly discover that they are being terminated “for cause”.

 
 
Comment by polly
2008-05-29 09:52:31

This is really interesting. I was doing my LLM at NYU right before moving to DC for this job. In the Fall of 2004, almost everyone who had a job offer from a private firm was moving to Florida, maybe a few to Texas. I wonder what is going on with them now.

 
 
Comment by auger-inn
2008-05-29 08:03:22

“Vice Mayor Vince Boccard said the city should consider neighborhood house watch, which is along the same lines as neighborhood crime watch. ‘Abandoned houses can become clubhouses for neighboring kids,’ he said.”

Think of the money saved not having to build tree forts!

Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 08:21:57

Yeah… why can’t you kids stop jumping up and down on the couch and go play in the neighbor’s old house!?

THAT or mommy and daddy can go next door and get some “alone time”? The possibilities are endless!

Comment by Neil
2008-05-29 09:06:47

THAT or mommy and daddy can go next door and get some “alone time”?

More likely it will be little Suzzy and her drinking buddies. ;)
Those abandoned homes are going to become famous for teenage parties. Rob Dawg has been taking photos through abandoned homes for a while. Broken bottles and empty condom wrappers are typical finds in abandoned homes.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by reuven
2008-05-29 08:50:04

Try building a real tree-fort in an HOA-goverened community. I doubt you can build a tree house in any of these gated communities.

So that means there’s a PENT UP DEMAND for play-houses, making the abandoned house problem even more severe.

 
Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-05-29 09:09:29

When I first moved to Tucson in 1985, our family rented. The house across the street went into foreclosure and was abandoned (middle class neighborhood). The pool was promptly drained and turned into a neighborhood skate park, the fence was tagged with some graffiti and sexual suggestions, and the interior was trashed.

Wash, rinse, repeat x 500,000.

 
Comment by postman
2008-05-29 09:40:25

coral springs was a pretty nice city. 1,800 is a large number. dont be surprised if cs creates some affordability program. if it is that bad in cs, broward is getting wacked. i would bet that housing prices may go to pre-2001 levels by 2010 at this rate!

 
 
Comment by Socrates11
2008-05-29 08:22:46

The thing that really tics me off is that almost all the media reports out there bemoan how home values are being ‘gutted’ while never mentioning the fact that they never should have been that high to begin with…

Comment by Kevin Road
2008-05-29 08:31:26

I hear you bro! Not just media, every day people won’t even acknowledge it. I might be having a conversation about housing problem with someone and the minute I mention that prices went up too high, they always go silent on me.

Comment by reuven
2008-05-29 08:58:57

Also, falling house prices are a good thing for many people…perhaps even the MAJORITY of people.

And not just renters! Many existing homeowners will benefit.

Not just lower property taxes, but for people who bought houses pre-bubble an overall 50% drop in prices nationwide may actually make it easier for them to “downscale” if they want to retire someplace else.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-05-29 09:11:30

I know it depends on your jusrisdiction but taxes usually won’t decrease unless your taxing body reduces its budget or receives income from a source other than the taxpayers.

I wouldn’t be holding my breath waiting for that one.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-05-29 09:19:29

receives income s/b receives an increase in income

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-05-29 09:27:13

Right on Kevin. I have to say some of the reactions I get from people when discussing falling prices is downright eery. Some go silent, some eyes glaze over, others ask how low will it go but none suggest prices will go up. Not anymore. Typically I use that to spring board into a conversation of how fraudulent the RE system is and in particular, realturds themselves. By that point, most of them go silent. lmao.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 10:00:50

I find people get kind of angry when I suggest this was the biggest bubble in our lifetimes, and housing prices or the economy are a complete sham. It feels like arguing about religion or politics: I generally avoid it unless they are close friends…or total strangers.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-05-29 09:07:20

I was thinking about that one. If 70% of households are homeowners that would probably be what dictates why housing value going down is reported as “bad”.

Of the 30% of households that do not own, how many could never own a home or get credit anyway? Renters with money, waiting on the sidelines may be the smart but we are the minority and probably a rather small one at that.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 10:09:08

Depressing.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-05-29 09:15:17

Because absurdly high housing prices keep people on the debt treadmill, working away on a job they are lucky to have, driving long distances to and from work, all so they can buy crud they don’t want with money they don’t have to impress people they don’t like. If they ever got off the debt treadmill, they might think for themselves, start asking questions, etc. and that is not good. A docile populace with their brains drowned by the TV and by a thousand fears (debt, housing payments, etc.) is easiest to control.

Comment by OCDan
2008-05-29 11:36:47

That was me and the wife for 12 years. Gracious. When we finally sold at the almost top and paid EVERY LAST DEBT OFF, what a difference.

I now live 7 miles from work and my take on what is going on in the country and the world is sooooo different. Don’t get me wrong, I like my ‘MeriKun Idol once in a while, just to see what dupe gets canned and I like my sports.

HOWEVER, not being a debt slave has changed my view on many ‘a thing!

 
 
 
Comment by megamike
2008-05-29 08:24:45

Here in Sarasota builders/mall developers are just salivating at all the wealthy shoppers that are heading into town
Two retail powerhouses in a race over Sarasota’s luxury market
are they for real??
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080522/BUSINESS/805220594/1661

Comment by Chip
2008-05-29 13:10:42

At least one of those is geared toward the very expensive Lakewood Ranch snooty PUD. I just wonder how much “real” money is out there and how many owners are posers. The shopping center fits the area, though - stuff for people whose main interest is in trying to impress other people.

 
 
Comment by reuven
2008-05-29 08:29:06

“Last week, South Florida’s largest real estate firm started hyping its own version of a door-buster sale that starts Sunday. Prices on hundreds of homes, mostly in Miami-Dade and Broward counties, will be slashed by at least 10 percent.”

That word “slashed” got me laughing and spitting coffee on my keyboard. I need to stop reading the HBB in the morning.

They may SLASH! the prices 10%…but the buyers–if any–will slash them an additional 50%. (There’s so much inventory that it’s very likely that a converted old apartment building won’t sell as condos at any price.)

 
Comment by Curt
2008-05-29 08:29:33

“…Fla.-based Becker & Poliakoff to temporarily and immediately cut all lawyer salaries by 12 percent”

12 % cut for laywers!?

Wow, this thing is really getting serious!

Comment by Neil
2008-05-29 08:47:55

Wow! I didn’t expect that for another six to nine months. So this is serious! They know that this will make quite a few ‘jump ship.’ So in effect, this will cut the lawyer payroll by 20%+. I’m including benifits too; yes, I expect that many to try and pursue new careers such that the total fully loaded payroll drops by a fifth.

While but a drop in the bucket… we bloggers now know that trend will spead. In other words, so much for the DC economy. ;)

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-05-29 09:19:52

Good.

The sooner the overpaid nonsense parts of the DC economy go down the drain, the sooner the housing price blight that infests all of central Maryland and NoVa will subside. I get so tired of hearing how “people in Maryland are rich because they live near DC.” (I am still waiting for all that free money to float by!), so maybe this type of thing multipled a thousandfold will start to wake people up to the truth.

 
 
Comment by denquiry
2008-05-29 08:55:44

yea but i bet the hourly rates stay the same. it’s just like building cheaper cars in mexico, the final price stays the same or goes up.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-05-29 11:16:49

Funny how Detroit can’t make small cars at a profit in Mexico, but Japanese companies can do so in the US.

 
 
Comment by tampaesq
2008-05-29 11:18:02

My husband’s firm just cut lawyers AND staff 2 weeks ago. No paycuts for those who survived thankfully. I am constantly trolling for better opportunities, but the legal job market is as bad as other fields. There is nowhere for people to jump ship to. My firm has scaled back hiring and already has a pretty high attrition rate, but for now we’re just absorbing the extra work, digging in and working harder, and are thankful we have jobs with great benefits. It’s going to get so much worse before it gets better.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-05-29 13:04:40

I’m confused. Seriously, wouldn’t there be more work for lawyers to sort out all of this mess? I guess pro bono won’t get extended to BK lenders.

Comment by OhMyHowFun
2008-05-29 14:14:48

Does the crack dealer sue the user for shortchanging him or does the user sue the crack dealer for selling him an inferior product? In effect both sides are at fault…and according to our legal system that implies no fault.

Also litigation, especially mass tort, is usually payed for through leveraged credit. If the paying party loses they write off the loss in bankruptcy anyway. No credit = less money for the lawyers to pass back and forth.

 
 
 
Comment by salinasron
2008-05-29 08:29:38

“So, for all of you begging for a closer look at a process that’s now shattering communities, gutting home values, and threatening to drag the entire country into a recession,”

Housing hasn’t been able to drag us into a recession because banks, etc have been able to manipulate true asset numbers and accountability but the speculation in the oil market will. Costs of trucking, products produced from oil, transportation costs (air,ship,car), etc are going to bring the consumers to their knees. When that happens housing numbers will take a back seat to the economy and then just maybe housing will lose its luster.

 
Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-05-29 08:46:00

Florida threads consistently provide evidence why we should not interfere with the natural order of things; why we should allow Darwinism to run its course.

Cull the weak from the herd, do not coddle the stupid, and certainly do our best to prevent them from breeding.

All this time in NYC is making me callous… Love it.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-05-29 09:56:08

You call that anger? That’s a pretty pussy-fied rant, if ever I saw one.

Comment by sfv_hopeful
2008-05-29 10:29:31

lol

 
Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-05-29 10:35:47

I bow to the superiority of your rants.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-05-29 11:10:14

Everybody does. When NYCityboy gets going, why, even Satan pulls up a chair and takes notes.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-05-29 11:25:18

LOL

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-05-29 08:58:11

“Like most sales events, the discounts are good for a limited time only, in this case 10 days — or, presumably, while supplies last!”

Yeah, they’re good for a limited time only. After that they’ll lower them even more. FOOLS!
While supplies last…at the current sales pace that would be what? 4 or 5 years?

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-05-29 09:09:53

“Its success will depend on whether the asking prices were fair to begin with, said Miami-based housing analyst Lewis Goodkin. ‘If the prices were realistic, then buyers will respond,’ he said.”

No, the success of the sale will depend upon whether the asking price is AFFORDABLE or not. I get so sick of “fair” pricing and “market value” and all that nonsense since they are nothing but excuses to sell some run-down dump for 2 to 3 times what it sold for in 2003, or to justify entire counties and states where only 10% of the population can afford a liveable, entry-level house. There is nothing “fair” about the Housing Bubble, and if they want to sell houses, they should try lowering the price to what people can afford to buy using traditional lending standards. Anything else is just hot air - the type used to fill a Bubble.

 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-05-29 09:10:22

Since my wife doesn’t work we try to survive on my salary,’ said Cohen.”
…there’s your problem. Going on shopping sprees with the SUV just doesn’t pay the bills now that the housing ATM got hauled off.

Comment by tresho
2008-05-29 12:38:26

Thieves hauled off a real ATM in Cleveland the other day using 2 pickup trucks and a front-end loader, these were abandoned a block away. I guess cash really is king.

Comment by combotechie
2008-05-29 15:25:59

Did they remember to drain the gas out of the trucks?

 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-05-29 09:20:17

“If a test sale hosted by the firm in Tampa a few months ago is any indication, buyers should respond positively. Rubio said of 847 participating sellers, 70 got their homes under contract.”

Sooooo, 8 percent of homes with contracts is supposed to be success?? Let’s see how many of them actually close.

Comment by Kim
2008-05-29 11:44:02

And the remaining 700+ sellers who failed to sell their home just consoled themselves that they haven’t found the “RIGHT BUYER”… none of them concluded that they must be overpriced by at least 11%.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 11:56:18

Got a point there, Blano. In fact, I’m seeing the same thing here. Houses with signs saying they’ve been sold. Then the “sold” rider disappears but the “for sale” sign stays up.

 
 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-05-29 09:37:15

“‘Foreclosures are increasing by 10 percent every month. Lender owned properties have increased 40 percent this year,’ said Erdal Donmez, assistant city manager.”

“What we have here is a failure to calculate”
AFFORDABILITY.

With apologies to Cool Hand Luke aficianados.

 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-05-29 10:17:16

topic request
COUNTY budget cuts
my county (fairfax va)
spent everything from the boom on bs like a dept of womens affairs, cappuchino machines etc
now they won’t come down w assessments
1% of a discount that should be over 20% at this point

how about yours ?

Comment by packman
2008-05-29 10:25:06

Next door in Loudoun county. Assessments are coming down fast enough - problem is they’re raising the rates to the point of vastly overcompensating. Budget is getting even more bloated than before.

Grrrrrr.

Comment by Chip
2008-05-29 13:17:37

That’s what “recall petitions” are for. Throw the bums out. Keep doing it until you get a board that really cuts costs.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-05-29 10:55:17

Our property taxes are going up up up. My feeling is if you don’t like it, move.

Sound familiar?;)

 
Comment by polly
2008-05-29 11:34:52

Well, I would be willing to do without the department in Montgomery County Maryland that told my landlord it could raise my rent by 8% last year even though a huge building with comparable amenities had just opened up a single block away (closer to the Metro) and was doing move-in specials up the wazoo.

I got a renewal for no increase, but I had to waste time arguing about it.

 
 
Comment by argento
2008-05-29 11:28:10

While watching real estate values decline we might want to add to our silver bullion at this point. 16.5 bucks today!

Talk about giveaway prices!

Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-05-29 12:21:39

buy now or be priced out forever..

 
 
Comment by reuven
2008-05-29 11:28:52

Even the language of FBs is amazing:

“‘We don’t have the funds to pay the mortgage,’ said Nathan Cohen.”

Doesn’t have the “funds”? He still thinks he’s some sort of big-wig financier who gets “funding” for “projects!”

The fact that he doesn’t say “I’m broke! I’m in over my head! I don’t earn enough money.” means that he really doesn’t think it’s his fault.

Comment by DinOR
2008-05-29 11:47:13

reuven,

Nice observation. In reading these FB articles there was always something about them that struck me odd about the language they employ but could never quite put my finger on it? You’re right, it’s absolutely incredible how these people manage to still have a high (investor) opinion of themselves when they’ve failed at even being a decent borrower.

Where do they learn this stuff? Does it emanate from Casey Serin and his “sweet deals” spin? Are these all “Rich Dad” grads?

 
Comment by Chip
2008-05-29 13:39:33

Another example - worse, I think:

“Due to unforeseen and unfortunate changes in my financial circumstances, I have had to let my property in Bella Collina go back to Fifth Third Bank and am facing foreclosure,” wrote Colin Locke, a resident of Dubai, to McKee’s office. “This unfortunately means I no longer have any funds to pay my mortgage and other accounts.”

Bella Collina was supposed to be a super-exclusive, super-expensive subdivision in the boonies west of Orlando. Probably still easy to find touts for it on the Web. Mr. Locke clearly is not a native of Dubai, so as an expatriate he probably earns l-o-t-s of money. If he were a native, for that matter, he’d be filthy rich. So what he is saying is, “This unfortunately means I choose to no longer pay my mortgage and other accounts.”

I’d have preferred to see a notice of bankruptcy.

 
Comment by oxide
2008-05-29 14:05:05

This guy is obviously a poser. The term “Funding” is no longer cutting edge to a banker, and has trickeld down to the second level of professional occupations like engineering, architecture, or academics.

A banker who pushes the envelope of buzzword bingo would have said “The current environment has proven challenging as we continue to structure our allocation of resources to meet our operational obligations.” Or some such nonsense.

 
 
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