May 29, 2008

It’s A Multiyear Kind Of Thing

Some housing bubble news from Wall Street and Washington. Reuters, “House prices fell a record 2.5 percent in May, the Nationwide Building Society says. The monthly decline, the largest since the lender started compiling records in 1991, wiped 5,000 pounds off the value of the average home and took prices 4.4 percent lower than a year ago — the sharpest rate since the 1992 economic slump.”

“Prices have now fallen for seven months running — the longest stretch of falls in 26 years when the last housing market crash plunged millions of Britons into negative equity, or owing more on their mortgage than the value of their home.”

“‘The sheer size of the drop in house prices, without the economy having yet slowed significantly, suggests that this housing market correction will be deep and prolonged,’ said Seema Shah of Capital Economics.”

“‘All this is with the support of a still relatively healthy labour market. Imagine then, what will happen to house prices once the economic downturn gathers pace and unemployment rises,’ Shah said.”

“Two-thirds of British households own their homes, making prices an extremely emotive issue up and down the country.”

“‘Correlation between house prices and consumer spending in the UK is high, and indeed it is the highest among major industrial countries,’ said Michael Saunders, economist at Citigroup.”

From Bloomberg. “KeyCorp fell the most since the stock-market crash of 1987 after doubling its forecast for loans that won’t be repaid, prompting concern that regional banks have underestimated the cost of bad mortgages.”

“The revision by the Ohio bank, which last month quadrupled its provision for loan losses to $187 million, may foretell similar increases at U.S. commercial banks as home prices keep sliding, analysts said.”

“‘Banks are a little bit delusional right now about when they’re going to turn around,’ said said Mark Fitzgibbon, an analyst at Sandler O’Neill & Partners LP. ‘Recessions don’t turn around in days or weeks or months. It’s a multiyear kind of thing.’”

“Banks are concluding that they must unload foreclosed properties to get the properties off their books, said Jeff Davis, an analyst at FTN Midwest Securities in Nashville. ‘We’re getting to the point where reality is sinking in and the sellers are cutting prices,’ Davis said. ‘The deeper we go into the year, the more foreclosed properties trading hands will impact the data.’”

The Atlanta Journal Constitution. “Synovus Financial Corp. said it has turned to auctions to speed up the disposal of foreclosed homes, many of which are concentrated in the Atlanta area.”

“Synovus CEO Richard Anthony said the Columbus-based banking company is in the ‘fifth inning’ of dealing with its credit problems stemming from the nationwide meltdown of home values and mortgage defaults.”

“Almost 12 percent of Synovus’ $1.67 billion residential loan portfolio, or $199 million, is classified as nonperforming, accounting for more than half of its problematic home loans, according to the bank’s presentation.”

“‘Our attention is more focused on turning the … assets in Atlanta than it is in Florida,’ said Anthony, because it is a much bigger share on Synovus’ problem loan portfolio.”

The Houston Chronicle. “Kenneth Hocking watched as the auctioneer began to drop the prices on his Inner Loop duplexes, in hopes that someone in the audience would start the bidding. $225,000 … $200,000 … $170,000.”

“When he hit $100,000 and the audience remained motionless, the auctioneer moved on.”

“‘It’s a reflection of the market,’ said Keith Jaehne, a commercial real estate broker and investor who attended Wednesday’s real estate auction. ‘There are a lot of new houses on the market without a lot of activity.’”

“We’re in a correction period,” said Kelly Toney, co-owner of Tranzon VenueBid, the real estate auction franchise running the event. ‘That was very evident today.’”

“A handful of the 25 properties being auctioned didn’t get a single bid.’

“‘Buyers are leery of prices falling further,’ Toney said. ‘They don’t feel like the market has bottomed out yet.’”

“The high bid on a 3,000-square-foot duplex on Hutchins near the Museum District was $75,000. It was a court-ordered sale, however, and the minimum bid had been set at $135,000. Several Midtown townhomes were left unsold, as no one was willing to pay the $315,000 and $415,000 minimums.”

The Detroit News. “Metro Detroit home builders, battling a nearly three-year slump in new home sales, are sweetening their deals to lure scarce buyers. They not only are dropping prices, but also are offering to buy customers’ existing houses…and throwing in upgraded fixtures and finishes that just a few years ago would have cost thousands extra.”

“In addition, some builders have put empty lots up for sale in hopes of recovering at least part of their investment.”

“‘We’re talking price declines of 30 and 40 percent at least,’ said Russ Long, director at a Birmingham-based financial firm that is acting as a bank-appointed receiver for financially troubled builders in Metro Detroit. ‘It’s a more acute drop with new properties than existing ones.’”

“‘This is stacking up as the most dramatic housing contraction in the post-World War II period,’ said David Seiders, chief economist for the National Association of Home Builders.”

“In some cases, even drastic price reductions and free upgrades haven’t helped to move some new homes.”

“Wake-Pratt Construction Co.’s Cedar Pines of Troy subdivision included plans to build 17 luxury single-family homes, some with price tags in excess of $650,000. But three years after Wake-Pratt broke ground on the project, only three home sites have sold, and the latest top listing price is right around $550,000, though there hasn’t yet been a sale this year.”

“Those prices include thousands of dollars’ worth of upgrades like granite counters, his-and-hers sinks in the bathrooms and upgraded fixtures. Just a couple of years ago, such extra amenities wouldn’t have been included.”

“Some companies, including Bloomfield Hills-based Pulte Homes Inc., have been aggressively selling excess land and speculative home inventories to boost their bottom lines.”

“‘Nobody is even talking about building homes unless they’re build-to-suit,’ said Long, the bank-appointed receiver. ‘There’s no money in empty lots.’”

From Post Dispatch. “For local house builders looking for an end to the housing market slump, April didn’t offer much hope. In the St. Louis region, the number of building permits sunk in many counties to levels not seen in at least six years.”

“The pace of sales is still not where most in the industry would like. Chris Jones, president of Columbia, Ill.-based CA Jones Inc., has experienced that first hand. Sales at his company are off about 40 percent from an average year, Jones said.”

“‘April is usually one of our hot months. We could sell five or six houses easily,’ he said. This year he sold three. But the month was still better than March, Jones said, when he sold just one house.”

“And the buyers in the market are bargain shopping, Jones said, because there is such a large supply of houses. ‘There have been weekends when we had one person visiting the display,’ Jones said. ‘It is very discouraging to the sales people.’”

The Gazette. “Amid an atmosphere of homes waiting months to sell and the number of foreclosures in the state having passed 11,000, one Prince George’s County builder is offering homebuyers the chance to rent before they buy.”

“‘It’s not something we usually see in the new home arena, even in this market,’ said Katie Maloney, executive VP of the Maryland State Builders Association.”

“Atkinson Properties & Builders’ homes are at least 3,000 square feet and brick-based, feature four to five bedrooms with ceiling fans, four or more bathrooms, whirlpool baths, gas fireplaces, in-law suites or sun rooms and fully finished basements.”

“Buyers pay Atkinson an initial nonrefundable down payment, usually $20,000, and then provide monthly rental payments until they are ready to purchase the home. Most Atkinson homes go for around $600,000, with renters paying about $3,700 each month; $1,000 of this goes toward the final purchase. Jean Atkinson, president, took in more than $309,000 in revenues last tax period but says she is closer to breaking even now.”

“‘I’ve had a tenant now that still hasn’t bought in almost five years. I’ve had to refinance her house; it was either that or ask her to leave,’ Atkinson said. ‘They have realized it’s cheaper to rent the house as long as they can without buying.’”

From ABC News. “In nearly every American metropolis, the housing downbeat goes on, and the numbers in some cities are staggering. At the bottom of the heap is Las Vegas. Once America’s fastest growing city, it has seen home prices tumble 26 percent since last year.”

“Not far behind is Miami, where the condo craze crumbled and overall housing prices are down almost 25 percent. The other big losers are in the West: Prices in Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco are each down more than 20 percent.”

“Homeowner Deborah Gorman and her husband decided to sell their home in Pittsburgh when they took new jobs working for an insurance company in New Mexico in 2005. But by the time they put their house on the market, the Pittsburgh metro area was already glutted with inventory.”

“‘We did lower the price significantly, dropped it by about $25,000; at this point, we really just want to be able to pay off the mortgage so that we can kind of move on and not have the stress of owning a house 1,700 miles away,’ Deborah said. ‘Once the house had been on the market for nine months, we were starting to get a little bit more than discouraged that it really wasn’t going to sell.’”

“Their original listing price was $150,000, but since then, the Gormans have dropped it $25,000. Her realtor recently told them that he has had clients in comparable situations sell their house for less than their mortgage.”

“‘It is really kind of disillusioning to realize that, after 20 years, you’re really going to walk away with not much,’ Deborah said.”

“She hoped to have a small gain from selling her house for a future home, but now that ‘hope has evaporated.’”

“‘It’s disheartening when you think you’ve done everything right. You have a lovely home and it’s in a great area and it just won’t sell. You really are at the mercy of the market,’ she said.”




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86 Comments »

Comment by Jas Jain
2008-05-29 11:48:30

“Prices have now fallen for seven months running — the longest stretch of falls in 26 years when the last housing market crash plunged millions of Britons into negative equity, or owing more on their mortgage than the value of their home.”

The bubble in UK was bigger, IMO. I don’t know about the degree of leverage there.

“‘The sheer size of the drop in house prices, without the economy having yet slowed significantly, suggests that this housing market correction will be deep and prolonged,’ said Seema Shah of Capital Economics.”

Good call, Seema.

“‘All this is with the support of a still relatively healthy labour market. Imagine then, what will happen to house prices once the economic downturn gathers pace and unemployment rises,’ Shah said.”

UK has been far more dependent on the growth in the financial industry and it should have a more severe recession, as a result. Also, it will get hurt more from Commodities Bubble burst due to larger weighting of commodities.

Jas

Comment by wmbz
2008-05-29 12:56:21

“Governor Mervyn King has also said the economy is actually doing quite well, outside the property and financial sectors”.

This fellow is a glittering jewel… Good thing everything else is running smoothly. The property and financial sectors should have no adverse effect!

Comment by MarknearSeattle
2008-05-29 13:46:59

Sounds like it is well contained???

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-05-29 13:56:38

As in planet Earth :)

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-29 11:53:46

Mirror, mirror on the wall…

Which loans sink which bank falls?

“The revision by the Ohio bank, which last month quadrupled its provision for loan losses to $187 million, may foretell similar increases at U.S. commercial banks as home prices keep sliding, analysts said.”

Comment by mikey
2008-05-29 12:45:31

“‘It’s disheartening when you think you’ve done everything right. You have a lovely home and it’s in a great area and it just won’t sell. You really are at the mercy of the market,’ she said.”

“FIX Bayonets…NO Prisoners !” :)

Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-05-29 14:30:03

…it’s in a great area and it just won’t sell

So true!! I have been trying to sale my Gloria Estefan greatest hits cd vol. 1 on craigslist for over a year now. I lowered the price twice from $75 to $73 and now $68 but nothing! Go figure.

Comment by Ria Rhodes
2008-05-29 18:44:44

Put it on Miami craigslist and include bonus offer of two Glock clips.
It’ll sell. Viva Cuba Libre.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-05-29 14:58:15

A lovely home in a great neighborhood ……..I don’t think so .

 
Comment by are they crazy
2008-05-29 16:57:52

That caught my eye, too. After 20 years - they gain nothing? How can that be unless we’re not hearing the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say. There has to be a refi or something there if there’s no equity after 20 years.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-05-29 18:38:30

Pittsburgh is far from a “great area” in most Americans’ eyes.

 
 
 
Comment by wjk
2008-05-29 11:56:54

It’s a good time to buy the stock market! Ha!

Dow Industrial trailing P/E 85
Russell 2000 trailing P/E 69

These are real 12 month trailing numbers not forward 12 month estimates.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3021-peyield.html?mod=mdc_h_usshl

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 12:30:52

Looks a tad overvalued to me. Just a tad.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-05-29 12:31:54

I’m in no way bullish on stocks right now, but something about those numbers is very fishy to me. P/Es are up almost 5x but dividend yields are also up, indicating overall price depreciation and/or increases in dividend payments.

Is this saying that aggregate earnings of Dow companies are down 80-90% from last year?

Comment by wjk
2008-05-29 12:51:47

Get a load of this; the dividends paid by the DJIA companies to their stockholders was $317.88, while earnings were only $149.16! Ha!

 
Comment by bluto
2008-05-29 15:39:55

This happens because one or more of the companies took a huge bath on earnings (probably AIG) and it’s enough to almost offset earnings from the other 29 firms. P/E excluding losses is 14 which is much more in line with estimates. If we expect management to begin reporting real numbers, we should start to get used to valuing companies on trend earnings (so volatility gets a discount but pricing isn’t based on a short period’s results).

 
 
Comment by michael
2008-05-29 13:42:02

I bought the QLDs on the dip yesterday and am sitting on a 20-point NASDAQ gain with what appear to be good Dell earnings AH. Should I sell a rally tomorrow? The Qs have had a nice runup this month but couldn’t beat 200 DMA resistance. At least not today.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-05-29 11:57:41

“Synovus Financial Corp. said it has turned to auctions to speed up the disposal of foreclosed homes, many of which are concentrated in the Atlanta area.”

“Synovus CEO Richard Anthony said the Columbus-based banking company is in the ‘fifth inning’ of dealing with its credit problems stemming from the nationwide meltdown of home values and mortgage defaults.”
______________________________________________________________

Isn’t the 5th inning when the Home team gets tomahawk chopped?

 
Comment by frankie
2008-05-29 11:57:51

The views of the average Brit on the Nationwides revelation that house prices are dropping

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7425257.stm

My favourite is

ROBERT SNELSON, BIRMINGHAM
This is just so depressing, but I can’t help but think the media is creating a bit of a moral panic over the issue.

By continually reporting this worsening crash, is it not making first-time buyers even more reluctant to buy?

I’m currently trying to sell a property that was valued at £110,000 only nine months ago.

Now I’ve been advised to drop the price to £102,000. What is the government doing to help the situation?

I can’t afford the repayments anymore, petrol is out of control - my wages do not cover me until the end of the month anymore.

Where do you turn?

Comment by sf jack
2008-05-29 12:33:37

I suppose it’s probably disappointing to the “Blame America First” crowd, but it’s certainly nice to see that whining, sniveling and blameshifting is a pastime over there as well.

Comment by frankie
2008-05-29 12:48:32

We do bleating as well as “whining, sniveling and blameshifting “.

Comment by JP
2008-05-29 13:34:16

Soon the US will start a program to close the bleating gap.

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Comment by Houstonstan
2008-05-29 15:07:44

Reminds me of an Australian Joke: what’s the difference between an aircraft Engine and a Pom (a Brit)?

Ans: An aircraft engine it stops whinging when turned off.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whinging+Pom

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-05-29 12:51:19

“By continually reporting this worsening crash, is it not making first-time buyers even more reluctant to buy? ”

I love that fact that there is ZERO understanding of the fact that buy-now-housing-only-goes-up reporting played an equal and opposite role in the bubble.

Oh wait–not equal yet; it will be equal after about 3 more years of declines. :-)

 
Comment by climber
2008-05-29 13:38:12

“I’m currently trying to sell a property that was valued at £110,000 only nine months ago.

Now I’ve been advised to drop the price to £102,000. What is the government doing to help the situation? ”

Boo hoo. What a bunch of cry babies. These pukes don’t give a rip about the people BUYING their houses, only how much money they can squeeze out of them.

My house is going on the market this weekend. My house is right in that 110,000 lb price range too. BTW a pound sterling isn’t even worth an ounce of sterling anymore.

 
Comment by oskar
2008-05-29 14:40:51

Bloody mercy! That guy is a wanker if I ever read one.

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2008-05-29 11:59:38

“‘It’s disheartening when you think you’ve done everything right. You have a lovely home and it’s in a great area and it just won’t sell. You really are at the mercy of the market,’ she said.”

Is this our “Entitlement” statement of the day?

Comment by SMF
2008-05-29 12:05:45

“Their original listing price was $150,000, but since then, the Gormans have dropped it $25,000. Her realtor recently told them that he has had clients in comparable situations sell their house for less than their mortgage.”

“‘It is really kind of disillusioning to realize that, after 20 years, you’re really going to walk away with not much,’ Deborah said.”

What happened to those 20 years of payments??!!

Do I smell a little HELOC abuse?

Let us all recall that equity taken out of your house is a LOAN. That money is only yours when you SELL the house.

We have been able to translate our equity into a very, very nice home now. Just because it was never abused.

The only time we took equity out was when we went from a 30 to a 15 year loan, and we used the $15K we took out to put in a new roof, new windows, and repairing the facade.

Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-05-29 12:15:18

Seriously, a 150k mortgage over 20 yrs? That would leave them with a 75k ish balance. An extra payment a year applied to principle could have had that puppy paid off.

Comment by combotechie
2008-05-29 13:07:39

“An extra payment a year applied to principle could have had that puppy paid off.”

But then where would they be? Without a mortgage they wouldn’t have a tax writeoff. Plus all that equity would just be sitting there doing nothing instead of being cashed-out to earn 20% or more in investments.

Pay off one’s house? Such lame thinking.

(sarcasm off)

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Comment by Jeff
2008-05-30 03:56:24

Where is this 20% or more in investments?

 
 
Comment by FP
2008-05-29 13:35:44

BUT…
“If you paid your mortgage off, it means you probably did not manage your funds efficiently over the years,” said David Lereah, chief economist of the National Association of Realtors

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Comment by Bungalowball
2008-05-29 14:29:06

“Seriously, a 150k mortgage over 20 yrs? That would leave them with a 75k ish balance.”
No, not a $150k mortgage. Remember it says they bought this thing 20 years ago, and 20 years ago in Pittsburgh prices were MUCH MUCH cheaper… They probably paid around 30k or so when they bought this thing. They’ve clearly “liberated” some equity.

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Comment by santacruzsux
2008-05-29 12:16:02

In the ‘Burgh if you have it listed at $125,000 after a drop, it must not be that nice of a house, and in not that great of an area. Sorry Deb, your house must be kinda crappy.

Comment by kpom
2008-05-29 12:43:22

“‘It’s disheartening when you think you’ve done everything right. You have a lovely home and it’s in a great area and it just won’t sell. You really are at the mercy of the market,’ she said.”

Only buyers should be at the mercy of the market…

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Comment by climber
2008-05-29 13:39:54

Obviously she misunderstands “doing everything right”.

 
 
 
Comment by laonlooker
2008-05-29 12:42:57

The thing that I don’t get regarding those that heloc’ed their house is that they don’t seem to realize that they already benefitted. They just got their money up front.

Comment by polly
2008-05-29 13:37:55

Bingo. Like taking out a payday loan and then wondering why you don’t have any salary left after the loan dudes get paid off.

Want to bet that a large chunk of folks who call the “it’s my money and I want it now” company and get their annuities monetized wonder why their monthly checks stop coming?

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Comment by mgnyc99
2008-05-29 15:07:34

yes they got the money up front but they can’t get squat didley for the suv or the 2 weeks in maui can they

poor victims

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Comment by Incredulous
2008-05-29 16:38:54

This is true. To explain it to my wife here in Tampa and others, I say refi’ing w/ cash out or HELOC’ing is like selling your house to yourself, your old self makes off with the cash but your new self paid more and has the higher debt to contend with.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-05-29 13:07:13

I think you’re right about the heloc, or ‘liberated equity.’

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 13:54:24

Is this our “Entitlement” statement of the day?

My entitlement statement of the day:

“It’s disheartening when I think I’ve done everything right. I saved, rented, paid down my debts and shopped around to prequalify for mortgages appropriate to my income, but there’s nothing out there I can afford. I’m really at the mercy of the market.”

 
 
Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-05-29 12:01:22

Thanks for the St. Louis article, Ben. I’m heading out there next week for a second interview.

Comment by aqius
2008-05-29 14:51:13

Def Mos Jane

you are in for one HELLOVA culture shock going from Davis CA to St. Louey MO !!! !!! !!!

 
 
Comment by dude
2008-05-29 12:01:56

I got bumped from my DGP yesterday at the open for a 4% gain. After the action today I’m pretty happy I did.

Looks like GLD might make another run at 85.

 
Comment by DC_Too
2008-05-29 12:02:29

“Those prices include thousands of dollars’ worth of upgrades like granite counters, his-and-hers sinks in the bathrooms and upgraded fixtures. Just a couple of years ago, such extra amenities wouldn’t have been included.”

This guys still don’t get the joke. It’s not about an extra bathroom sink or higher-end Home Depot fawcetts.

I haven’t been in here in a long time. Progress, for sure, but methinks we’re only halfway to the end, if that.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 12:16:50

Can’t His wait his turn while Hers uses the bathroom sink? That’s how it used to work.

Comment by polly
2008-05-29 13:41:06

Used to be that an average bathroom didn’t have enough space to fit in an extra sink with a crowbar.

 
 
 
Comment by Steadykat
2008-05-29 12:04:02

O/T: Ben, our local paper the Spectrum is doing yet another “don’t panic all is well” story. I thought that you might want to use it the next time you cover the S’west.

“I hope all of us will be cheerleaders for our area,” he said of the way to help the area rebound. “We live in a great place with great people. I think we’ll enjoy a renewness(sic) in our market.”

http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080529/BUSINESS/805290307

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-05-29 12:04:04

“She had hoped to have a small gain from selling her house for a future home. …It’s disheartening when you think you’ve done everything right.”

The biggest thing they didn’t “do right” is, they should’ve sold the Pittsburgh house before moving to New Mexico. They should’ve realized that lots of other people also want to get out of Pittsburgh and move to New Mexico. They should’ve lowered the price of the Pgh house faster, and they might’ve made a quick sale. They should’ve turned into tenants if their job pursuits were going to require mobility. They should’ve sold the Pgh a long time ago if the prevailing prices were vastly out of proportion to rental costs. They should’ve diversified their putative “investments” into arenas other than residential RE.

Comment by Neil
2008-05-29 12:18:45

They should’ve realized that lots of other people also want to get out of Pittsburgh and move to New Mexico.

Funny thing is, I see job creation in Pittsburgh. Now… I have no idea if its enough job creation to counterbalance the exodus (I doubt it). But… for the first time in my adult life it is easier to get engineers to transfer to Pittsburgh than Southern California. (Most of the jobs are Westinghouse related; at least the one’s I’ve heard about.)

Mellon bank is also retreating out of SoCal (amoung other locations) back to Pittsburg.

They should’ve diversified their putative “investments” into arenas other than residential RE.
ROTFLMAO

You don’t know how many Trump wannabe’s that I know who will *have* to sell. Expect more walk aways. I’ve just seen my first panic cases at work where they are incredulous that they cannot get at ‘their money’ via HELOC.

I would never trash my credit so… as this employment anually pulls credit reports. We almost had to pull one recent hire’s job offer (after he came on-board!). Why? Health costs for one of his children created a period in his life where he couldn’t pay all of the bills and thus trashed his FICO. But HR/customer finally agreed that once that event was removed, his credit was ok enough. (Which is an allowed transgression.)

I also know quite a few people who would never need to sell off their 2nd/3rd homes. But at some point, they’ll sell just to diversify. These people are really good at calculating cash flow and ROI. Yes… they fell for the bubble mania. But when the projected ROI on hold a negative cash flow home is less than the ROI on T-bills… they’ll take the loss and move on.

I am not aware of any time where the US was this over-invested in real estate. We have a multi-year correction ahead of us.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-05-29 12:40:48

From what I understand W.L. Gore is finished building out in Flagstaff (bubble holdout) in favor of Phoenix. I’m sure a good bit of the reason was lack of affordability.

 
Comment by aqius
2008-05-29 15:35:50

and to add to yer credit-related comments about new employees, the next screening method used by companies will be health related, per the movie “Gattaca”. DNA sequencing checks for major risks.

insurers already routinely cross check files from the MIB(Medical Information Bureau)to verify applicants history. any pre-x’s cost much more for coverage. much, much more, and can often lead to outright denial if judged to risky. and good luck getting life insurance to pay if you gloss over yer health risks. they have the legions of lawyers & time to stall while yer widow & kids starve. just any katrina-affected insured about how THAT works!

with earth’s pop overlimit, the plum jobs will go to the genetically superior. its inevitable. (NO, I am NOT claiming I am superior, it’s just an observational coment)!

bottom line; try to stay OUT ofthe MIB database. (I’ve told my relatives to look for me under “Jose Smith” if I am E.D. admitted. heh heh.)

stay off-grid. in fact, why complain about illegals? just join em & let the taxpayers foot the bills. America is such a rich country, right? hell, if all the “new arrivals” get free med care, why not life-long citizens?! lets ALLLL go on public assistance . . .

Aqius shrugged

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 12:20:02

Makes me even happier about my inability to afford a house while I lived in Pittsburgh. Would have been quite the albatross when I decided that it was time to leave.

As a renter, I was able to bail, go bike-tripping for three months, then settle in Tucson.

Comment by santacruzsux
2008-05-29 12:26:16

Man, you must have been poor.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 12:35:27

At one point in my Pittsburgh years, I was so poor that I couldn’t afford to eat three meals a day on a regular basis.

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Comment by santacruzsux
2008-05-29 12:52:16

Three meals a day? Talk about spoiled! :)

Just jaggin ya. Glad to hear that it turned around for you.

 
Comment by JP
2008-05-29 13:38:05

And I note your handle involves the word “Slim”.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by frankie
2008-05-29 12:05:04

It must be something to do with name Countrywide, it’s a bit like calling your boat Titanic you just know something will go wrong

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2008/05/estate_agent_shocker.html

Britain’s largest estate agent, Countrywide, has toggled.

Or to translate, it has stopped paying interest in cash on £100m of debt and is instead rolling it up.

It’s a sign of the tsunami that’s hit Britain’s estate agents that Countrywide - which has about 8% of the British residential market - has decided to conserve as much cash as it can.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 12:18:02

From the original post:

“In some cases, even drastic price reductions and free upgrades haven’t helped to move some new homes.”

To which I say, perhaps those price reductions weren’t drastic enough. And people may be sensing that those free upgrades are worth, well, zero.

Comment by climber
2008-05-29 13:44:10

No doubt. It’s a royal pain to rip out granite counter tops. It’s a royal pain to keep stainless appliances fingerprint free.

A lot of those “upgrades” were things people put in because they thought other people would like them. Now people are realizing that hardly anyone actually wants that pretentious crap. It was all done for the flip.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 14:23:06

I’ve heard that spilled lemon juice wreaks havoc on granite countertops.

Comment by sfbayqt
2008-05-29 19:31:11

I’ve heard/read the same thing. There’s a lot more maintenance involved with GCT than people realize. It’s either done for the flip, or the new homedebtor buys the house with it because it’s the latest “cool” thing. Even sealing the surface won’t prevent the chemical reaction from acidic spills. It just buys you time, I guess. Over time it will probably look a bit crappy.

BayQT~

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Comment by stewie
2008-05-29 15:07:15

Speaking of granite, a few nights ago the local news (San Antonio) ran a story about unusually high levels of radiation eminating from granite countertops. Apparently, since granite is basically fancy “rock”, it is embedded with trace amounts of radioactive elements. While the exposure levels aren’t considering fatal or even health impairing, noone really knows what the long term effects of exposure over 30, 40+ years will be. BTW, my mom’s an RN and I worry about this same thing with her exposure to enormous MRI machines over the years. She’s mid-sixties and has already had numerous thyroid issues that luckily have turned out to be benign so far.

Comment by Bad Chile
2008-05-29 19:33:15

Exactly. Want to know the place in Boston with the highest background radiation?

South Station. All the marble and granite…

But seriously, the background you’d get from living with granite countertops is far, far below even living at a 1000′ higher elevation that it is pointless to worry about it…

A chest x-ray once a year is likely 50 times greater dosage than granite countertops would be. And don’t forget all those times you need multiple plates…

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Comment by sfbayqt
2008-05-29 19:23:29

Really. And what do you do with all the cool refrig magnets? :-)

BayQT~

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-05-29 12:28:48

“Several Midtown townhomes were left unsold, as no one was willing to pay the $315,000 and $415,000 minimums.”

LMAO… midtown? Uptown? In Houston? WTF. 3 steps to your left is downtown and 3 to your right is midtown…. And 315k for a condo in Houston? I better sit down so I can fall out of my chair laughing.

Comment by mgnyc99
2008-05-29 13:03:46

but hey exeter starbucks is at your doorstep that is at least worth a premium right?

in nyc i can see the whole lets transform blighted areas into new urban paradise for the young urban prof. there are jobs here

but in houston? milwaukee? st. louis? detroit?

man this is really going to take awhile to play out

i just signed a new lease on 5/1/08 for another year but i am laready planning my next move and it looks like it will be to another rental- hopefully rental rpices will come down some more. i would love to rent a palce in on of these new cond’s without the common charges ,taxes,huge downpayment and the ability to skip after a year or 2

Comment by exeter
2008-05-29 15:32:44

NYC, LA, Beantown yeah. Houston? lmao.

 
 
Comment by mgnyc99
2008-05-29 13:04:22

but hey exeter starbucks is at your doorstep that is at least worth a premium right?

in nyc i can see the whole lets transform blighted areas into new urban paradise for the young urban prof. there are jobs here

but in houston? milwaukee? st. louis? detroit?

man this is really going to take awhile to play out

i just signed a new lease on 5/1/08 for another year but i am laready planning my next move and it looks like it will be to another rental- hopefully rental prices will come down some more. i would love to rent a place in one of these new condo’s without the common charges ,taxes,huge downpayment and the ability to skip after a year or 2

Comment by mgnyc99
2008-05-29 15:05:37

sorry for the double post and spelling errors

speaking of starbucks there is one near my office on
24th and 6th ave and another on 27th and 6th ave
3 blocks north

4 months ago they opened a new location on 23rd st between 5th and 6th ave about 1.5 blocks east and i am happy to report
that a new starbucks branch is days away from opening just one block to the west on 7th and 23rd st

so that is 4 starbucks within a 3 minute or less walk from my office- there is always jamba juice for those hot days as well
2 locations within 3 blocks of each other

nyc is so original and different from the rest of the usa

to get to the starbucks on 23rd between 6th and 5th you will walk past a duane reade (nyc drug chain on every other block)
a best buy, outback steakhouse and olive garden around the corner as well

nyc is freaking lame -what happened to this place?

Comment by exeter
2008-05-29 16:14:32

I don’t get down there often. Home office is down on 7th at midtown and I’m always sure to get a pastrami at the GC grille when I’m forced to report there. For more entertaining I stop by my old firm across from Bryant park but that’s the extent.

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Comment by wmbz
2008-05-29 12:50:51

“‘Banks are a little bit delusional right now about when they’re going to turn around,’ said said Mark Fitzgibbon.

Well at least the proper terminology is creeping into print… Damn right they are ‘delusional’, and more than a little bit.

 
Comment by Blano
2008-05-29 13:01:58

$1 million penthouse in downtown Detroit.

650K houses in Troy.

This is nowhere near over even in the Rust Belt.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-05-29 13:52:39

The only Penthouse I could imagine buying in Detroit would have many pictures of naked ladies in it. I drove through Detroit back in ‘92 and I couldn’t believe what a toilet it seemed to be. I’m sure there are nice areas. Maybe Gary, Indiana even has nice areas. I don’t know. I don’t care. Hmmmm, now I have visions of Penthouse in my mind. Time to go see what the wife is up to.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-05-29 14:25:14

The Motor City was in the toilet back when I was a University of Michigan student. I think I still have the prints from that urban decay photo essay I did in 1978.

 
Comment by mgnyc99
2008-05-29 14:56:10

she is fine do not hurry home

 
 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2008-05-29 13:46:51

“Banks are concluding that they must unload foreclosed properties to get the properties off their books, said Jeff Davis, an analyst at FTN Midwest Securities in Nashville. ‘We’re getting to the point where reality is sinking in and the sellers are cutting prices,’ Davis said. ‘The deeper we go into the year, the more foreclosed properties trading hands will impact the data.’”

This is my experience, at least for PHX.

Looking up foreclsores from 15-9 months ago, and virtually all have been sold off, many in March-May. Houses from 6 months ago are being liqidated quickly.

My guess is that post-foreclosures were about 2000 of the 5000 from last month, with short sales maybe being another 1000. And it is just accelerating.

I’ve been checking foreclosures by zip and comapring to sales per zip. It isn’t apples to oranges because the foreclsoures include empty lots and time shares while the transactions are just houses and condos. But…. they are running DARN close for the majority of zips.

Race to the bottom is on!!!!

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 14:35:16

Off topic:

I looked at a house in Seward, AK last weekend…beautiful location in a fjord at the tip of Resurrection Bay, even if the town is a bit dumpy. However, it is a sportsman’s paradise with great fishing, kayaking and 4-wheeling in the area. The town is somewhat famous as the terminus for virtually all Alaskan cruises from the lower 48, so there is a train depot that runs to my home in Anchorage, if I decide I don’t want to do the drive on the weekends.

The seller is a journeyman carpenter who bought the dilapidated house next door in foreclosure last year and is trying to flip it halfway through the reconstruction, since he is running out of cash to do the renovation. Tells me he wants to sell it “at cost” of about $130K, which I think is the $105K purchase price plus the cost of renovations he has done so far.

He is an extremely nice guy and probably would make a great neighbor. I also met the other neighbor, an old lady who practically would have baked me some cookies had I stayed long enough. Housing values on finished houses in the neighborhood are currently $250K and up, which I suspect will drop substantially as prices correct in Southcentral Alaska. Historic pre-bubble prices were about $100-150K for the area in 2001. Heating costs are lower than Anchorage because it is an ice-free port in winter, but It requires a heating fuel tank since electricity would be too expensive.

I’m guessing that I will need to put in another $100-150K (lower figure includes sweat equity) to turn it into an extremely nice 3/2, and the view from the top floor is just incredible. Maybe another $50K if I want to make it at least liveable. Just curious if anyone thinks that I should make an offer, or wait for the crash and buy a fully constructed house in a year or two? It would make financial sense to me if the price of construction materials and labor dropped as well as housing costs in the future, and I like the idea of building my own home and having such nice neighbors. I would plan to move back to Anchorage in a year and keep it as a “second” home that I could partially rent, buying my “first” home in Anchorage once prices get more reasonable.

Any thoughts or suggestions…I’ve never purchased a home before, but at least it is a (former) foreclosure at a pre-bubble price, and I am curious what you cynics would do? Be nice. :)

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-05-29 15:32:26

$130K + $125K (mid-range of your estimates to improve) = $255K.

That sounds like zero discount from current pricing in the area, unless the cost of doing the improvements goes down dramatically below what you expect. I would guess that they will go down to some extent, but maybe not that dramatically.

So with zero discount from current inflated prices, what is the value in jumping in now? I’m not seeing it… Nice neighbors and nice views will certainly be available elsewhere as the crash continues.

My guess is that the current owner wants out “at cost” because it is slowly dawning on him that he’s the bagholder–he can’t afford to finish renovations, can’t rent it in its current shape, can’t afford to carry it, and can’t sell easily at current pricing.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-05-29 16:51:25

Makes sense. I could definitely afford it, but spending the money would just slam shut other doors that might open, at least temporarily.

Don’t know how you guys do it…taming the house lust has been difficult. It is just such a nice place in a nice location. I try to think like a businessman but when I see something that really appeals to me the warm fuzzies sometimes cloud my thinking.

I wish this housing marked would just freaking crash already. I really want to get my house and move on to other things. It feels like I am just kind of stalled at the moment.

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-05-29 19:39:39

Don’t know how you guys do it…taming the house lust has been difficult.

That’s easy: stop looking at houses. Really. You create the lust by looking at them. This is totally like a guy who keeps going to peep shows and then wonders why he’s randy all the time. ;)

If you’re serious about waiting for somewhere near bottom (tee hee), start looking around for nice rentals to make a home in for the next 1-5 years and check in on MLS once year, a couple of months before your lease comes up. Then spend the other 364 days of the year doing and thinking about non-house things.

This is our strategy - we’d like a house but we’re making a home in a rental and just plain old not worrying about it until this thing has played itself out more. We’ll go house hunting only when general house prices have come back down to at least reasonable.

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Comment by Mole Man
2008-05-29 16:13:45

Imagine the money you might lose all piled up in the fireplace in flames. Would you still want to live there and maybe poke at the pile a few times to make sure it all burned through?

 
 
Comment by mgnyc99
2008-05-29 14:58:56

on the way home today i could not help but notice the local realturd office has been shuttered. desks gone place is for rent

now if the other 4 offices within a 3 block radius will die a slow death i will be happy

this is a neighborhood where 2 bedroom homes of 1200 sq ft start @ 550k for a dump with all the 1940’s amenities a wwII vt could ask for

 
Comment by lainvestorgirl
2008-05-29 18:01:10

Ha ha ha…now I know what laid off mortgage brokers are doing for a living, I just got a rental application from one: she’s opening a thrift store in a low income neighborhood. I guess it beats lap-dancing!

 
Comment by sfrenter
2008-05-29 22:53:32

The other big losers are in the West: Prices in Phoenix, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco are each down more than 20 percent.”

Hmmm, really, San Francisco is 20% down? I don’t think so. Maybe in the ghetto areas.

 
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