Seeing A Mouse Under The Table In California
The Sacramento Bee reports from California. “Gracie and Louis Prado moved to Yuba County’s new commuter subdivisions later than most people, arriving just 16 months ago from Elk Grove. But they came for the same reason thousands did since 2002: more elbow room and a big house for less money. Yet the trade the Prados made for a bargain home just south of the county seat of Marysville, a long commute to work in Sacramento, is now chewing on their incomes.”
“‘We just didn’t think gas would go to $4 a gallon,’ says Louis Prado, who commutes 104 miles daily from the east Linda neighborhood of Edgewater in a V-8-powered pickup truck to his job in Rancho Cordova.”
“Real estate experts are…now starting to ask larger questions about the impact of expensive oil on such far-flung neighborhoods whose futures were tied to a metropolis many miles away: Could they become a suburban equivalent of ghost towns?”
“Lack of buyer interest is obvious in parts of Edgewater and Plumas Lake. In both neighborhoods, some model home complexes stand empty inside undeveloped subdivisions. Many finished homes have signs in front windows advertising them as available.”
“Thousands of lots, readied for development during the housing boom with sidewalks, streets, utility lines and street signs, have become fields of weeds.”
“At the current sales pace, real estate experts say, it will take 13 years to develop and sell all the new homes planned in Yuba County and its neighbor, Sutter County.”
“‘That is horrifying. That’s like seeing a mouse under the table,’ says Dean Wehrli, a Sacramento-based home-building industry consultant, addressing a home-builders meeting last week. ‘My take is that marketplace is going to be hurting for a while.’”
The San Francisco Chronicle. “In a bleak real estate market, some Bay Area residents are finding a bright spot. People who thought they could never afford a home here are buying foreclosed houses at huge discounts, sometimes more than half off the stratospheric heights they reached just a couple of years ago.”
“Admittedly, the discounts can come with caveats - iffy neighborhoods, maintenance issues - but some prices are so low they would have seemed ludicrous a year ago. Of course, the former prices were ridiculous too.”
“Buying a first home ‘is not impossible anymore,’ said Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist at the Realtors group. ‘Median home prices have come down. The bulk of the declines are at the moderate and low end. (That) brings in people who could not have gotten in a couple of years ago.’”
“Aimee Golant and her husband are looking for a San Francisco house with a garage for under $425,000. ‘We talked to a lot of Realtors and some just laughed in our face,’ Golant said. ‘But then they started sending us listings.’”
“It turns out that their budget isn’t absurd. ‘We’ve seen half a dozen houses in our price range,’ Golant said. They were small and in marginal areas, so the couple will keep looking - but they think prices will continue to decline.”
“Scott McComas is buying a foreclosed three-bedroom Concord townhome. He paid $167,000 - less than half the $355,000 the previous owner still owed on the loan. ‘I saw that and my jaw dropped to the floor,’ he said. ‘I’m getting this for over 50 percent off; that is just amazing.’”
“Raised by a single mom, Tanya Orozco always wanted to thank her mother by getting her a home of their own. Last month that dream became a reality when Orozco and her mother bought a foreclosed four-bedroom home in East Palo Alto for $390,000. The home had previously sold for $700,000.”
“Now Orozco lives there with her mom and aunt, who both work as nannies, and her boyfriend, a student, who just got a part-time job at Home Depot, ‘which is perfect because of all the painting and projects we need to do,’ she said.”
“The monthly payment for mortgage, taxes and insurance is about $500 more than the $2,000 the foursome previously paid to rent a Menlo Park home.”
“‘It’s a nice house in a family-oriented neighborhood,’ Orozco said. ‘It’s obviously not as nice as Menlo Park, but we feel safe. We all have our own space, and it’s our space we can do whatever we want with - we can paint, do all those little things we couldn’t do as renters.’”
The Mercury News. “Renters Julie Herning and her husband, Oliver, have been trying to buy a home near San Jose’s Japantown since February. With a slow housing market, and with enough money for a healthy down payment, they figured they finally had a shot at owning a piece of property.”
“What they didn’t expect was the competition - so fierce that they’ve been outbid on four houses priced at around $500,000.”
“‘It’s kind of crazy,’ said Julie Herning. ‘One person I called said I would have been the 13th offer on the property.’”
“Bidding wars have remained common in high-priced places where stellar school districts are the big draw. But in an area such as Santa Clara County - with more than 900 houses for sale for $450,000 or less - many home buyers assumed that the market was soft, and are shocked to find themselves outbid on foreclosed, bank-owned properties in this price range.”
“‘The REO market is cooking-hot right now,’ said Jason Chan Lee of Intero Real Estate.”
“Banks eager to unload their REO inventory - which forms a large chunk of the cheapest houses for sale in the county - have been lowering listing prices. It’s become common to find bank-owned homes in South San Jose priced at roughly $400,000 that last sold in 2005 or 2006 for $600,000 or
more, for example.”
“The competitive landscape has discouraged the Hernings, who thought they’d have an easy time buying because ‘all you hear about is ‘Oh, the market is terrible,’ Herning said. ‘We had no idea we’d still be sitting here going, ‘What’s going on? Are we going to find a house?’”
“Some agents who specialize in REOs said about half the buyers now scouring the market for deals on bank-owned properties are people who want to live in the homes, while the other half are seeking investment property to rent out.”
“But even at today’s REO prices, some investors are waiting to buy because they can’t get enough monthly rental income to cover their mortgage and expenses.”
“True, said agent Peter Carey, but the ones buying now are ‘gambling on better times’ in the future, he said, hoping to buy property in the $400,000s that will eventually gain value.”
The LA Times. “The market may be down, but sales of bank-owned properties are picking up, with multiple offers being made in many cases as lenders drop their prices to move foreclosed homes off the books.”
“Earl Bonawitz, general manager for Century 21 Wright in Temecula, said his company handles 120 to 150 bank-owned properties at any given time and has watched REO prices drop.”
“‘It costs a bank about $5,000 a month to hold a property,’ he said. ‘A $650,000 to $700,000 appraisal a year ago in some areas is now worth about $350,000. It took a while for the banks to adjust their mentality to that. Right now, anything under $300,000 is a hot price.’”
“Kirby Palmer, who owns a home in Claremont, decided to buy an REO house in northern Rialto in January to flip as part of his retirement strategy. He said because he’s self-employed it was too costly to get conventional financing; lenders were asking for 20% down with interest rates of 8.5% to 9%.”
“So he went to what is known as a hard-money lender. The lender required a 10% down payment, as well as six months’ worth of mortgage payments and the construction costs upfront at 13% interest for a six-month loan.”
“Palmer rehabbed much of the house himself and was paid back the construction costs by the lender as the work progressed. All told, he put up $64,000 on a $238,000 house.”
“The property had been stripped of all copper wiring and the air-conditioning unit. ‘I went in the first day with my sons and had to kick out a squatter,’ Palmer said. He put it back on the market at $349,000 in March but has had no offers yet.’
“‘If it doesn’t sell, I can rent it out and wait for the market to bounce back,’ he said. ‘It’s not a huge risk.’”
“‘The big question is whether we’re in a recession,’ said John Karevoll, an analyst with DataQuick. ‘If we are, we’re in for some more downturn. If we’re not in a recession, it’s likely that prices have found their bottom and that most of the declines are behind us.’”
The Bakersfield Californian. “As the housing crisis intensifies, so do homeowners association headaches. Association boards these days are grappling with how to handle unsightly foreclosures and collect monthly dues - critical for maintaining common areas and padding reserves - when so many residents are feeling squeezed by the economy.”
“In simpler times, homeowners associations had a powerful enforcement tool at hand: the lien. An indebted homeowner who wanted to sell or refinance would have to first clear the lien, said Ted Whittington, a Bakersfield attorney who represents about 40 local homeowners associations.”
“But a foreclosure wipes away an association lien, meaning a lawsuit is often the only way to collect back payments, Whittington said.”
“Catching an owner’s attention through a lawsuit costs money, said Michael Strahan, a board member for the Seven Oaks West South of Chamber Homeowners Association.”
Gated developments, such as Seven Oaks at Grand Island, typically levy hefty monthly dues to operate gates, pay a security company and, in some cases, maintain private streets.
“‘This could go on for years if a homeowner really wants to be belligerent,’ Strahan said. ‘You put a lien against a house for 600 bucks. Big deal. It costs $500 to put the lien down.’”
“Some pinched California homeowners associations are considering shutting down clubhouses or decreasing the frequency of services such as street sweeping, said Andrew Schlegel, VP for an Aliso Viejo-based management company with association clients in Bakersfield. Others raised dues.”
“Southwest Bakersfield’s Sagepointe Patio Homeowners Association, composed of owners in a 134-home neighborhood, has struggled with foreclosures and vacant homes.”
“‘When the boom was going on here, we had a lot of investors come in, out-of-town people,’ association VPGene Foubert said. ‘They used (their homes) for rentals and didn’t pay any dues. I’d say this last year has been worse than it’s ever been before.’”
The Press Enterprise. “Lake Elsinore resident Cheri Sullivan refused to sell her home in the Rosetta Canyon neighborhood at a loss during a time when the housing market has dramatically cooled. So Sullivan got creative. Sullivan is giving away her five-bedroom, four-bathroom home to the lucky winner of a $200-per-entry essay contest.”
“‘You just have to think outside of the box in trying times,’ Sullivan said. ‘A lot of my neighbors are walking out of their homes and taking the loss, but I didn’t want to do that.’”
“Sullivan’s plan is to field 7,000 essays at $200 each; the money will be placed in a trust account. Three of Sullivan’s friends — an attorney, a restaurant manager and a yoga instructor — will judge the essays. The winner will receive the home.”
“The essays can be no more than 500 words and will be judged on “thought, creativity and sincerity,” Sullivan said. ‘They have to convey a desire to own and keep the home,’ she said.”
“Sullivan stands to earn $1.4 million, enough to pay off the mortgages, taxes on her earnings and judges’ fees and have enough left over to buy a smaller house and ‘be comfortable,’ she said.”
“Sullivan moved to Lake Elsinore from San Diego’s Hillcrest neighborhood in June 2006. She bought her house at what real estate agents said was the peak of the housing market. Then, the market went south — way south in Sullivan’s neighborhood.”
“Home prices in Rosetta Canyon, an upscale community in northeast Lake Elsinore, have fallen nearly 30 percent since the market’s height, said Marsha Swanson, a local Coldwell Banker branch manager.”
“‘There were some people paying $400,000 and $500,000 at the peak,’ Swanson said. ‘The bank-owned properties are being sold for around $300,000 now, so it’s a pretty drastic drop.’”
“Sullivan said she started thinking about selling earlier this year, but thought twice because the experience of some neighbors who were selling their houses for half of the price they paid. Her real estate agent told her it would likely be eight to 10 years before her house was worth what she bought it for.”
“‘I’m 57, I don’t have that time to wait,’ said Sullivan, who has two mortgages on the home.”
‘Buying a first home ‘is not impossible anymore,’ said Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist at the Realtors group. ‘Median home prices have come down. The bulk of the declines are at the moderate and low end. (That) brings in people who could not have gotten in a couple of years ago.’
OK, this woman makes my brain hurt. It’s never been impossible. Look at the FB strawberry pickers!
Anywho, the California press is apparently making a big push back into the bottom picking area. Good luck, and I’ll point out all the new FBs as they come back to haunt you.
Oh wait, here’s one already:
‘Palmer rehabbed much of the house himself…All told, he put up $64,000 on a $238,000 house. He put it back on the market at $349,000 in March but has had no offers yet.’’
‘If it doesn’t sell, I can rent it out and wait for the market to bounce back,’ he said. ‘It’s not a huge risk.’
People who weren’t completely crazy or stupid couldn’t or wouldn’t buy houses a couple of years ago! I think anyone who didn’t get a fixed mortgage in 2005 when rates were at 45-year lows, was an idiot.
People without 20% down for a 750,000 shack in 2005 were wise not to buy the house. And people who had the cash and income for a traditional mortgage were probably smart enough not to touch bubble pricing.
(If you don’t put 20% down, you pay $150/month or so in PMI. That’s really “cash in the trash”, yet 95% of people who bought homes in 2005 paid it!)
In fact, one of the reasons for the mortgages people were taking out was avoiding PMI. What you do is take an 80% first mortgage, and then either a 10% second with a 10% down payment, or a 20% second, or perhaps a 15% second and a 5% down payment. This strategy long predates the 2/28 ARM, however, and has been used in high-cost areas for, oh, about 30 years. With the foreclosure crisis, though, it’s very risky for the holder(s) of the second(s), as the first mortgage has priority in repayment and, with declining values, the seconds have become worthless. (That’s why most second mortgage holders don’t file notices of default–they won’t get anything out of it.)
And that’s why I don’t do seconds!
Oh wait, I do have one second … however, it wasn’t purchase money, it was a small loan against a large equity … I guess it’s my most dangerous loan, but so far it’s performing perfectly, just like all the others.
I had no idea they let you do this! Imagine, letting someone get into an even riskier situation to beat paying mortgage default insurance. It makes no sense!
Is it possible to short a HOA company? Does any of you know which HOA is publicly listed? We keep reading that home owner associations are in trouble. It’d be nice to short these dudes.
‘If it doesn’t sell, I can rent it out and wait for the market to bounce back,’ he said. ‘It’s not a huge risk.’
*sigh*
Everyone has this idea - my MIL, my sister - it’s standard “water cooler” advice.
Doesn’t anyone not on the HBB notice the one tiny flaw that we can’t all be landlords to each other?
Even if you think the market will bounce back (ha, ha, ha, ha), isn’t there a significant risk in letting a 3rd party with no long term interest mind a high ticket item you’re trying to sell?
It will be really nice to get to the acceptance stage of the bubble burst.
“Doesn’t anyone not on the HBB notice the one tiny flaw that we can’t all be landlords to each other?”
If we could all flip houses to each other and make the economy work, why not rent to each other? Wait, here’s another really smart idea:
“‘You just have to think outside of the box in trying times,’ Sullivan said…Sullivan’s plan is to field 7,000 essays at $200 each; the money will be placed in a trust account…Sullivan stands to earn $1.4 million, enough to pay off the mortgages, taxes on her earnings and judges’ fees and have enough left over to buy a smaller house and ‘be comfortable,’ she said.”
That’s about as logical as the rest of this ridiculous game.
Do you ever feel like you somehow got dropped on the wrong planet??? Or maybe even your head???
Try as hard as I can, I just can’t think like these people…Dude, where’s my reality???
I wonder how many essays and checks for $2,000 that Sullivan idiot has received already? Three? Five? I’m guessing zero.
I’m wondering if it’s legal to have a lottery or a contest like this to sell a house . I know they have had contests on TV where the prize is a house .
But ,regarding the people who took out toxic adjustable loans when it was a low fixed market , it was because those where the loans you could lie about your income and put no money down .
These borrower were speculators and they were sold on the low teaser payment ,use leverage and appreciation to your advantage sales pitch . The bulk of these borrowers had short term investment plans or they really believed they could get another loan when the adjustment period on the loan came up .
You know that these borrowers were short term in their thinking because if you figure in the real cost of refinancing ,a long term owner who intended on paying down the principal would not of gone for it .
This using the adjustable loan to your advantage for leverage was the main sales pitch made during the boom ,and it really works for flippers . You shell out as little as possible and appreciation bails you out . The market makers didn’t tell the FB’s what they were going to do if real estate went down or a tight money market prevented refinancing .
Do you ever feel like you somehow got dropped on the wrong planet??? Or maybe even your head???
Totally. And that was *before* the housing bubble. Now I’ve gotten to the point where I think of myself living in “backwards universe”. Whatever would make sense is reversed.
Of course lenders lent 1/2 million dollars or more to people with no verifiable income against a large wooden box. Of course reasonably sane, hard working people are now all real estate “experts” and riding out it, just like the stock market. And why not sell your thoughts at $200 a copy? I’ve been quite the hussy with mine, typing them up for free and all.
Apparently, though, my head is starting to heal, as banks are starting to reconsider loans to have no actual chance of paying them back. Who knows, if I live long enough, real estate would go back being a place to live or make a living (you know farming, mining, forestry) and people would not publicly admit that their plan B involves something close to envelope stuffing scheme.
Vermontergal,
That would be a parallel universe not a backward universe. I too feel at times I hit a space time continum.
Okay, so I agree you are not going to get 1000 people to pay $200 bucks to a complete stranger, and have to labor to write an essay to boot! Never going to happen. Plenty of suckers in the world, but most are lazy!
The problem I see here is the possibility of lawsuits and frozen bank accounts!.
This is going to be a subjective contest!
All you need is one of the losers that feels that the winner had some type of association with one of the decision makers of the contest. You can probably find a % of people who will sue about anything trying to get a out of court settlement. “this one judge has a cousin who works with the sister of the guy who won kinda lawsuit” Since clearly this article states that she will make a pretty good profit out of it, I am sure some people would like to take a shot at some or all of the profit. This has lawsuits written all over it. I think plenty of con artist have thought of this plan, but some probably did. They had nothing to lose, not even the house because they had no house, but this lady has a couple of houses, and she is not hidding her identity!
“Hey, lets go buy a house for $600K, and then raffle it for $1.2 million. Yeah, we’ll flip it” Believe me, many legit people have thought of it. This woman has not invented cold fusion, and she is going to find out why this essay raffle has not been tried before! At least legit wise……………
I have noticed these essay contests for houses before.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/12/pf/yourhome/essaycontest/index.htm
I just did a google search on “essay contest to win house” and got a lot of results. It’s probably interesting reading, especially
this one:
SORRY contest cancelled
May 14, 2008 … They all saw no problem with the contest or selling my home in this way. … The house is still for sale and you can contact my Real Estate …
100housecontest.com/ - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
SORRY contest cancelled
May 14, 2008 … They all saw no problem with the contest or selling my home in this way. … The house is still for sale and you can contact my Real Estate …
100housecontest.com/
Wow, that is a shack, and it’s in the middle of nowhere. I might pay $20,000 for it (that’s a two and four zeros, not five).
“‘You just have to think outside of YOUR BRAIN in trying times,’ Sullivan said”
I’d bet you’ve done THAT many times before Sullivan
‘(That) brings in people who could not have gotten in a couple of years ago.’
This is a typically mendacious and idiotic remark from a die-hard used home sales people spokesperson. I guess nobody ever informed LAY that a couple of years ago, anyone who could breath could have qualified for a mortgage (and maybe even some who could not breath)?
Good for you, Leslie Appleton-Young. Keep the hope alive, Leslie. Keep encouraging the FBs to hang in there, to keep up with those mortgage payments no matter what the pain.
And keep encouraging the knifecatchers to commit their fresh capital to the system. The System needs the money.
I love the REIC. I love the NAR. I love Leslie Appleton-Young.
Sure, where would we be without these stand-up comics?
Something to pump a little foolishness into the air is always welcome.
Could they become a suburban equivalent of ghost towns?”
They won’t be the equivalent of ghost towns, they’ll be ghost towns!
I was telling people back in 2005 that new ex-burb developments will one day be blocks of boarded up empty houses. They thought I was crazy, or somehow jealous of their Grass Valley McMansion.
I wonder if they’ll have roaming packs of wild dogs like in Suburbia
Dogs? No. Coyotes? Yes.
I can see it now……I need to give Snake Pliskin a call.
Street after street of abandoned McManshons, some stripped, some burned out shells. Backyard pools turned into swamps for breeding mosquitos the size of pigeons, or arenas for fight to the death cage matches. Packs of coyotes feeding on the packs of zombie realtors, who are still trying to sell the houses as “fixer uppers”. Giant herds of squirrels, looking for the humans who signed a contract to feed them, and lashing out in fury at those who don’t have any “nuts”
“Escape from Victorville”
“I need to give Snake Pliskin a call.”
I thought he was dead.
Snake Plisken will NEVER die. He’s one of them there, you know, archetypal representatives. An imago of the ideal, urban style.
Like Paul Bunyan, only without that stupid lumberjack raiment and no giant blue cow for a pet. Man, imagine the damage Babe would inflict upon riparian corridors nowadays! It just doesn’t bear thinking of.
Street after street of abandoned McManshons, some stripped, some burned out shells. Backyard pools turned into swamps for breeding mosquitos the size of pigeons, or arenas for fight to the death cage matches. Packs of coyotes feeding on the packs of zombie realtors, who are still trying to sell the houses as “fixer uppers”. Giant herds of squirrels, looking for the humans who signed a contract to feed them, and lashing out in fury at those who don’t have any “nuts”
“Escape from Victorville”
Gulfstream,
pitch this to HBO. They have a shortage of product…
‘Escape from Victorville’ ! Perfect title for Roger Corman eh? Also ‘The Monster from Norco’.
“Escape from Victorville”
ROTFLMAO
You don’t know how great that movie sounds! I’ll invest. I don’t even care if it makes a profit as long as its campy enough.
The squirrel bit was a nice touch spike66.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“Escape from Victorville”
There could be a gigantic serial plot or series of plots delving into multiple IE hellish scenarios. The stressed out crazed desperate IE commuters paying $4.50 for gas commuting 50-70 miles n scorching IE 100% summer heat, with only a barren wilted wastland of foreclosed tracks and empty lifeless malls to look over as they crawl along the truck clogged IE frwys.
IE gangs and taggers going apeshit all over the IE as economy collapses and jobs disappear, driving IE unemployment among illegal alien spawn over 50% .
Large expanses of IE wasted abandoned industrail and shuttered half built/REO residential tracts becoming breeding grounds for IE squatters, homeless, roving gangs,
meth heads, derelict hobos, trailer trash,smuggled illegal alien holding pens, pot hothouses. ad nauseum.
The IE was already pretty much a scorched barren wasteland even before the RE and economic collapse.
At least the inner IE hellholes of rialto, fontana, colton, San berdoo metro, half of redlands, roubidoux, mira loma, the so called IE industrial wasted zone.
Imagine trying to escape out of the IE summer 100% wilting heat wth gas at $4.50 . Poor bastards cannot even escape to the cool coasts except for paying $50-80 in gas for a days escape to the OC beaches . They will wilt & fry in their over-priced IE shitholes and deal with yet another nightmare scenario , water rationing. There will be a vast sea of brown scorched bone- dry acreage over entire IE , instant tinder for the huge conflagerations which will ignite & flame all over the IE hills all summer and fall . Some of it no doubt started by deliberate firebugs or enraged Fb-ers losing thier IE homes to the bank.
Has anyone here ever seen North Shore, California? It was a super-exurb built in the ’60s and ’70s on the North shore of the Salton Sea. Now? Scary.
Wehrli, a Sacramento-based home-building industry consultant, addressing a home-builders meeting last week. ‘My take is that marketplace is going to be hurting for a while.’”
Really, ya think !!!
“‘That is horrifying. That’s like seeing a mouse under the table,’ says Dean Wehrli, a Sacramento-based home-building industry consultant, addressing a home-builders meeting last week.’
THAT’S his analogy?! A ‘mouse under the table?’ ‘Horrifying?’
Man, what a wussy. Where was this guy raised? Now, if the mouse was a hideous mutant mouse, gigantic in stature with great glaring wise eyes and seemingly crazed with some foul rodent purpose, also wearing, I don’t know, a tiny lab-coat and a tie, or maybe a wee opera cape, and if it was chittering with rage and leading a phalanx of crickets, THAT would indeed be horrifying.
If that’s what he meant, he should have made that clear. If there’s anything I dislike, it’s imprecise analogies.
LOL - in his defense, if all you’ve ever seen of rodents is Tom and Jerry cartoons, Mickey Mouse, and gerbils; a “wild” mouse is pretty disturbing.
The cure is exposure. We need to put him in an old farmhouse backed by woods for a while. At first, I’m sure any rodent handling will be taken care of a professional exterminator (in my case, it was my husband). After a while, he’ll be cheering on the cat and neatly disposing of the remains.
‘The cure is exposure.’
Yeah! Let’s catch him and tie him in a chair and sprinkle corn-nuts around his feet and then just leave him for a couple weeks. We’ll have a considerably tougher individual when we come back, if we remember to come back. And forget the professional exterminator, and also the cat. This Dean guy will have himself ‘neatly disposed’ of the remains.
For additional fun, we can toughen up further by “letting” the garter snakes invade the house.
I used to go looking for garter snakes and blue belly lizards when I was a kid. Bring them home to Mom and show her my daily catch. She was great about it. She also went looking for the same critters in her younger days.
that’s still no excuse : )
he should know that its a silly cliche to use here . . . and that the typical people who find mice under the table “horrifying” are ladies in sitcoms, and even they get over it pretty quickly once the guy in the room easily takes care of the matter.
Mice??? Wow, scary.
If my cat brings a mouse into the house, I catch the poor little critter and take it to the grounds of the church next door. Lots of things to nibble on, esp. after they have that wine and bread stuff they do every so often.
Tell us about your cat, losty. Is it darling? I assume so.
And how many mice have you released into the church? I think you show great consideration for mice, thinking ahead about the wine and bread thing.
Our cat would play with his food alot before he brought it to the house. (Really - I caught him more than once flipping something live into the air and “mostly” catch it). *Ahem*
Anyway, if his cat is like ours, me thinks that most of the mice needed last rights performed anyway, so the church release was a good call on many levels.
LOL! Actually, at this point in time I have myriad cats, because every flippin’ rental I live in the owner has abandoned their cat. But I don’t actually release the mice INTO the church, just onto the grounds, and they can find their way in if they choose, I mean, I believe in freedom of/from religion for all creatures.
The neighborhood cat, Kelly is a hunter and eater. He catches the mice and gophers, brings the catch to our backyard to show us his manly hunting skills and then proceeds to eat his catch.
Unless of course “mouse under the table” is a euphemism. We could be talking about the “one-eyed” variety here, and that’s pretty scary stuff if it’s Uncle Tickles sitting at the dinner table.
Unc…wha?
Oh, yeah, I think I know that guy, come to think of it.
“if it was chittering with rage and leading a phalanx of crickets,”
How many crickets in a phalanx?
One hundred and 22.
(I made that up. How would I know? Jeeze.)
Oh, wait. 122 is a ‘gross’.
Yeah, “mouse under the table” was definitely putting a silly nice face on it.
My thought was “huge pack of rats sitting on the table, holding you down, and gnawing the your face off”.
Think Willard.
7,000 essays at $200 each? Is this woman insane?
Why do they all think this is a new and creative idea? I don’t think one of these has ever actually worked.
7,000 essays
At $200 a pop, I would guess she will be lucky to sell over a 100 tickets.
This of course does not address a fatal flaw in the process, which is how many folks in the area can write a coherent essay in ANY language.
Wonder how many she’ll get in Spanglish.
The guy who’s selling his house his house in Oregon with a contest has already gotten over 2,000 entries at $200 a pop, but I think she’ll have trouble reaching her 7000 goal…
Here’s something I found:
http://100housecontest.com/
one page site only:
————————————————
Sorry, The contest was cancelled.
Any and all entries will be returned to sender unopened.
Here’s what happened. When I decided to do this contest I contacted a couple of real estate lawyers here and my accountant. They all saw no problem with the contest or selling my home in this way. They also said to keep asking around, I did and I couldn’t find anything on it being a problem. So I launched the site, and began the contest.
I got an enormous amount of positive response and a fair amount of negative response.
I’ve received no entries as of May 14th 2008, if I do receive any in the mail, I will return them to sender unopened from the post office. They are of no use to me.
So today I got a few e-mails telling me that what I was doing was illegal and that I better get a lawyer. So again I made a bunch of calls to see if this was possible. This time the lawyers all told me well we don’t know and you should call the attorney general’s office. Which I promptly did.
The AGO told me that this was not legal and that if I take the site down and cancel the contest now, I will not reap any repercussions. So that is exactly what I did.
I apologize for any inconvenience I caused anyone or any hopes that have been dashed by this turn of events. But, both jail time and fines are not on the agenda to getting to Nashville. So it goes…
The house is still for sale and you can contact my Real Estate agent for more info. Thanks and peace be with you.
Right, seems to me I heard of a similar such incident about 10 years ago. It’s regarded as a raffle, something you can conduct only for non-profit purposes. I grant you the FB might be happy to get away with no PROFIT, just save his or her a$$, but a private purpose still makes it illegal.
Here’s the one in Oregon:
http://www.win-this-home.com/
Yachats area is nice, but $440K for that?? (what the owner would get, not what buyer would spend)
If the other’s are illegal, how is this one legal?
‘Right, seems to me I heard of a similar such incident about 10 years ago. It’s regarded as a raffle, something you can conduct only for non-profit purposes. I grant you the FB might be happy to get away with no PROFIT, just save his or her a$$, but a private purpose still makes it illegal.”
IANAL, but I believe, even if non-profit, if anyone requests , they can get a free entry. The price for the tickets is considered a donation, so they don’t have to pay what the organization is asking.
–
But I feel lucky. Feeeeelings…
Jas
It is a pretty silly idea; it sounds too stupid to be serious. Maybe she’s hoping to get enough publicity out of it to sell her house normally? Hard to believe it’s real on face value, though… I doubt she’d get even 100 submissions, much less anything close to 7000.
“Sullivan stands to earn $1.4 million, enough to pay off the mortgages, taxes on her earnings and judges’ fees and have enough left over to buy a smaller house and ‘be comfortable,’ she said.”
And believe me, we are all very concerned about your comfort. Not.
Americans need to be brought back to earth. ‘Comfort’ is going to be the least of our problems in the near future.
Maybe she should just rob a bank or two. It would be easier and just as legal.
I am not so sure about that. Have you ever tried to draw out large quantities of cash from a bank that you have an account with?
I seriously think that their is more cash in the ATMs than in the bank drawers!!!
Banks keep very little cash. A teller once told me that if you need $10,000 in cash, you should let the bank know, as they need to make special arrangements for you. And it’s not a good idea to take out that much cash. One woman did so, only to discover that a good portion of it was counterfeit. And the bank isn’t responsible if that happens. Get a cashier’s check.
And if you “win”, what have you won? You get to live near Lake Smellsinore and pay $$$ any time you want to travel to any place decent and pay $$$ to heat and cool the place. What’s next, pay $200 to hang on to an anchor in shark-infested waters?
$10 - $20 bucks I might go for the essay, but not at $200 bucks.
“In a bleak real estate market, some Bay Area residents are finding a bright spot. People who thought they could never afford a home here are buying foreclosed houses at huge discounts, sometimes more than half off the stratospheric heights they reached just a couple of years ago.”
The key word in the first sentence is “some.” I have looked at 2-bed and 3-bed condos in Marin. Almost everything–including short sales and REOs–is so overpriced relative to rents it is scary. The properties that are not grossly overpriced relative to rents are trash or are in sketchy locations.
I rent a nice 2-bed, 2-bath condo for $1,500 a month in Marin. The 2-bed condos that I have seen that are not trash or in sketchy locations would cost 30% to 80% more a month to buy than what I pay in rent, factoring in the mortgage payment, property taxes, insurance, maintenance, and association fee.
I expect the prices of 2-bed and 3-bed condos in Marin to drop 20% to 25% from current levels in the next 12-18 months, which would bring them back to 2000 and 2001 levels. Price declines will stop when the cost to buy–the total cost, not just the mortgage payment–is in the line with the cost to rent. Believe it or not, that was true even in San Francisco and San Jose proper in 2000, when price/rent ratios were about 13.
Keep the popcorn popping.
Red Baron
“The properties that are not grossly overpriced relative to rents are trash or are in sketchy locations.”
The same is true here in Ventura County. And at the current rate, middle income stuff in good to moderate areas will depreciate another 30% or so before anyone doing the rent/own calculation gets back in. Still, I’m seeing a fair number of SFRs in moderate areas of Thousand Oaks now selling in the low 5s, after a 25% decline from the peak. I fully expect 1/3 to 1/2 of these to be back on the market after another 25% decline in values which, if the current rate of decline holds, will be about April, 2009.
From what I notice, very few condos below $600K in Marin are selling, but there are a few fools who think they are getting “value” at 20% to 25% off peak prices.
Keep the popcorn popping.
Red Baron
How low do you think prices along The Avenue can go?
Which avenue would that be?
If you’re talking about The Avenue in Ventura - very tricky. Some gentrification due to 20 somethings moving into less expensive houseing. Still a lot of improverished people rasing chickens and pigs.
If the economy tanks in Ventura, wouldn’t touch the area. Crime could be a problem and if the newer residents don’t have much skin in the game, would be sorely temped to move out. Also, The Avenue would be competing with nicer areas, so why live next to a rooster if you don’t have to.
The only upside I see is if artistic types continue to move in and turn it into a charming village.
Bears watching, but that’s all at this point. Unless, of course, you have a thing for chickens and pigs.
Sullivan’s plan is to field 7,000 essays at $200 each; the money will be placed in a trust accountSo, her three friends are going to read over 2,000 500 word essays each? Is she insane?
Hey, not to worry, it’s rigged. I already talked to her, and she’s going to pick the one I enter on Ben’s behalf.
“Lake Elsinore resident Cheri Sullivan refused to sell her home in the Rosetta Canyon neighborhood at a loss during a time when the housing market has dramatically cooled. So Sullivan got creative. Sullivan is giving away her five-bedroom, four-bathroom home to the lucky winner of a $200-per-entry essay contest.”
“‘You just have to think outside of the box in trying times,’ Sullivan said. ‘A lot of my neighbors are walking out of their homes and taking the loss, but I didn’t want to do that.’”
______________________________________________________________
Methinks Cheri will be soon living outside of her box, as in foreclosed.
Here is my essay, Cheri:
“Get f-cked.”
Only two words, but I think it covers my feelings about you and your crap box.
Plagiarism! you stole that from NYCBoy didn’t you?
NO his was:
“Get f_cked” see the difference? LOL
Could they become a suburban equivalent of ghost towns?”
yes, they can
another 2 year old prediction from the hbb….
“The monthly payment for mortgage, taxes and insurance is about $500 more than the $2,000 the foursome previously paid to rent a Menlo Park home.”
OK, now add $300+ for maintenance and replacements and they are paying 40% more to live in a lesser neighborhood. Do they plan to make up for the difference with appreciation?
“Do they plan to make up the difference with appreciation?”
In a word: Yes. (Because they’re morons.)
She is insane . But since people like contests and lotteries and love to gamble so much ,maybe the government can form a State Housing Lottery . Every day a foreclosure will be given to the winner of the City or State lottery . Oh ,forget it ,the State or City would get sued if the house wasn’t perfect .
“‘We just didn’t think gas would go to $4 a gallon,’ says Louis Prado, who commutes 104 miles daily from the east Linda neighborhood of Edgewater in a V-8-powered pickup truck to his job in Rancho Cordova.”
Yeah me niether. I parked my Dodge pickup, don’t need it anymore anyway as my construction business is all but dead. When things started to slow down and gas went up it was really hard to pass those costs along to customers. There were too many contractors bidding for fewer and fewer jobs. As we contractors throw in the towl and head off to be greaters at Wal-Mart, the guys who stick with it will be able to raise prices to cover fuel, and then we will see another BAD effect of high gas prices. It does not have to be this way. America has lot’s of oil, really! Go see this website. Check out the links and decide for yourself. There is document after document proving we can produce affordable oil for decades. Get involved:
http://www.AmericansForJobsAndEnergy.org
Alan
It all makes me want to cry.
When I am made Mistress of the Universe (and it will happen as soon as I get this dropped on my head thing cleared up), everyone will be forced to do basic geology field work to have some sense of what it takes to get oil out of the ground.
Also, we’ll all have some remedial math lessons involving YoY increases in fuel usage, population growth, and industrialization rates of two countries with the world’s largest populations.
Sadly, I’m not the Mistress of the Universe, and I’m still living in backwards universe. So I say to you: of course! No one saw this whole $4 a gallon thing coming. All those stupid, wacky geologist talking about Peak Oil and increasing demand. Morons! Of course there’s endless oil in the AWAR. In fact, it reproduces itself! (Saw that on another blog.)
While we’re at it, did you know that Santa Claus really does exist? I saw him just this last Christmas. He told me that the secret to riches was to sell essays for $199 each.
LOL! Will Oly then still be Queen of Candy? Can I be Queen of Sardony?
As for geologists, my little town is crawling with them. They seem to be looking really really hard for something, they have an air of desperation about them (when they’re not playing horseshoes).
They’re sure wasting a lot of gas driving all over the place looking for whatever it is they’re looking for…
LOL! Will Oly then still be Queen of Candy? Can I be Queen of Sardony?
Of course! Running the Universe is a tough job. I’ll need some help.
As for geologists, my little town is crawling with them. They seem to be looking really really hard for something, they have an air of desperation about them (when they’re not playing horseshoes).
They are looking really hard to keep thier jobs by trying to find crude bubbling up from the ground as in the Beverly Hillbillies. Mostly, though, they are making some real whiz bang color maps and wondering why they have to use 40 year old USGS topo maps to do it. Between the maps and the horseshoes, I think that’s worth the extra gas.
If they were honest, of course, they would tell their bosses that most of the United States has been pretty much completely surveyed for fossil fuels for the last several decades. Alot of good geo work was done in the WWII era when we had some collective notion that oil/gas does not spontaneously come out of fuel pumps at the local Exxon station. (People even thought…this is a scream…it was a matter of national security not to be so dependent on foreign oil. So silly!)
That doesn’t mean we didn’t miss some, but the chances in this day in age to have missed a significant pocket of oil is pretty minimal. It really would be like winning the lottery at this point in time to find one.
Could be hydrogeologists looking for another Ogallala. Drinking water could be more expensive than oil in some drought stricken western communites in the near future.
You can’t get oil out of oil shale in an energy efficient manner. It’s worse than tar sands or the ill conceived Ethanol idea.
If “we” drill in ANWR and on our coasts we will delay the inevitable by maybe 5 years or so. Then what? The oil era is coming to a close, that’s a fact. So we better look beyond oil. There are plenty of alternatives but none of them implement themselves over night. It will take decades and trillions $$ in investments. Unfortunately I don’t see anything getting done in that direction.
“can’t” get shale oil in an efficient manner?
That’s a pretty bold statement..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale_economics
Producers and investors took a serious hit in the ’80s when crude prices fell back, and they are still somewhat gun shy… but technology has advanced and other things have changed since then..
Funnily enough, I blogged on the similar topic today: The Impact on oil to travel industry. I believe we’ve reached Peak Travel.
Alan,
“America has lot’s of oil, really!”
The amount of oil is not the issue. The issue is that oil extraction, movement, refinement and burning are extremely toxic to our environment (global warming, air pollution), our people (oil wars) and wildlife. The solution lyes in changing our behaviors (buy efficient vehicles, public transportation), engineering vehicles that don’t consume as much fuel or ones that don’t pollute at all (fuel cells, electric/solar/photo voltaic). Read beyond the political statement that Friedman makes in his editorial “Truth or Consequences” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/opinion/28friedman.html?ex=1212724800&en=ac1fd7a27bc4a1f9&ei=5070&emc=eta1
or listen to the podcast on NPR, City arts and Lectures, with the Scientist from the Rocky Mountain Institute. There are very real solutions to “high oil prices” just as there are to “high housing prices”, but flooding the market with houses didn’t work for most people in the long run, nor will flooding the market with oil. It’s time for a paradigm shift regarding both issues.
Regards,
Uffish Thought
nope.. there are ’serious’ environmental concerns regarding all alternatives.. without exception, especially if any alternative technology managed to grow to the monsterous size sufficient to replace energy from oil. The unintended, unknown consequences as well as the byproducts of the technology would likely be even more obnoxious than was burning fossil fuels.
If I were heavily invested in oil and wanted to keep prices high and rising, while assuring the widespread reliance on oil far into the future, I could do no better than to join forces with environmentalists. Their policies are exactly backward to what they claim they are trying to accomplish..
I’d go so far as to accuse their leadership of being paid off by Big Oil (and/or Big Agriculture and Big Yet-to-be-Named).
I agree on the conservation and more efficient vehicles. I drive a VW passat now. However with a construction business you can’t get by with that. Some big vehicles are on the road out of neccessity. The problem is funding. The Government is so far in debt, you can wish and hope for fuel cell vehicles and gazillion dollar high speed rail systems, all day long but economics say no.
At least if we do something like americansforjobsandenergy we can start to reverse the trade deficit. Keeping those billions that we send overseas buying 50% of our oil is a good start. More high paying jobs that increase tax revenues combined with the doubling benefit of reducing those on public assistance can fund some pretty amazing stuff.
Just trying to be realistic.
I agree wholeheartedly. You have to remember the government wants oil as high as possible. They are a sinister bunch who are shoving ethanol down our throats. (at 3x the cost of ethanol from Brazil) Ethanol, that is driving the cost of everything you put in the ground stratospheric and starving poorer people to death. Even if poorer countries could afford the high food costs,unfortunately they cannot pay the shipping costs because of oil(U.S.A.). The U.S.A. is shameful, dastardly and disgusting. All of this because of a government sponsored ponzi scheme. They are deathly afraid of DEFLATION(Consequences of deflating housing stock). Fear not, they do not win and good wins over evil. Deflation is here, thank God. Long live DEFLATION. p.s. Don’t get me started on why I cannot buy a plug and drive 100 mile per gallon plus hybrid and the Battery Brothers in Wheaton Il. can produce them in their garage. (U.S.A. DOES NOT WANT THEM-remember the free $50,000 suv behemoth FIASCO) Real MEN do the right thing and do not invade countries or come up with the ethanol scam to drive up the cost of oil. Time to pay the piper folks. (DEFLATING HOUSING TRUMPS ALL THE AFOREMENTIONED) Life in America is about to change-FOREVER.
There is no reason plug-ins have taken so long other than the PTB needing the tax dollars. I am one of the few people that is happy as hell to see the price of gas going up.
Gosh, just $200 for a one in 7000 chance at winning a home? Where do I sign up? $1.4Million dollars… though I wonder how much she’s going to pay her three friends to read seven thousand essays.
“judges’ fees” are later mentioned, so I suppose they’ll be paid something to read them. And who better to judge essay writing than “an attorney, a restaurant manager and a yoga instructor”…
The only phrase I can pair off with an attorney, a restaurant manager and a yoga instructor is walk into a bar.
An attorney, a restaurant manager and a yoga instructor is walk into a bar.
The attorney orders a whiskey, the restaurant manager orders a beer and the yoga instructor orders a shirley temple. When it comes time to pay, the yoga instructor tells the bartender that his friend the restaurant manager is buying, then slips away when the bartender isn’t looking. When the bartender asks the restaurant manager to pay, he says his friend the attorney is paying, then slips away when the bartender isn’t looking. Finally the bartender is fed up and decides the attorney is not getting out of his sight. He demands payment for the whiskey and the attorney’s friends’ drinks. Upon hearing this, the attorney is incredulous.
“Friends? Those two weren’t my friends!”
The bartender grabs him by the collar and growls, “Well they’re your friends now!” and forces him to pay.
The attorney leaves the bar and spots the restaurant manager and the yoga instructor waiting for the bus. He goes up to them and angrily asks, “What’s the deal with leaving me with your tab?”
To which the yoga instructor answers, “”Friends are the bacon bits in the salad bowl of life.”
“‘We just didn’t think gas would go to $4 a gallon,’ says Louis Prado, who commutes 104 miles daily from the east Linda neighborhood of Edgewater in a V-8-powered pickup truck to his job in Rancho Cordova.”
Those people moved 16 months ago to that community. 16 months ago was in early 2007.
“Twilight in the Desert,” by Matthew Simmons, was published in June 2005, well before those two decided to do the long commutes. If they read that book, they would have decided that any commute over 2 miles is too far.
They deserve to suffer from their own stupidity. Oil is infinite! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
What a bunch of morons. A 104 mile commute? Why would anybody want to do that to themselves?
With a V-8? Get ready for $5 and $6 gas. If that doesn’t get your attention yet then maybe rationing will. All coming to a neighborhood near you in the not too distant future. Idiocracy rules!
My airline (US Airways) finally raised its ticket prices by 60% over the last 30 days. This is going to have a big ripple effect on business travel, airport concessionaires, etc. And that effect will be start to be seen this Fall. I bought my last two tickets to take me to the end of August, then I’m going to use my frequent flyer miles from that point onward. Tired of having oversold flights between BWI and Sky Harbor anyway…
Whats interesting is that peak oil will ensure that prices in these exurbs continue to drop since everything is connected this will ensure we continue to see price declines for the foreseeable future.
Next given that we have a 2.3-2.6 or so density per housing unit and that a move to 3.6 would put 35 million new units on the market. This could easily happen as people figure out its cheaper to crowd just a bit in closer in rental properties. And note that 3.6 per unit is not huge crowding but a couple and two kids in a two bedroom apt.
So no floor in site for housing given peak oil.
So no floor in site for housing given peak oil.
Yeah, I know. Our house was in a rural area, but for all practical purposes, given my husband’s commute, it was an exurb.
One of the many parts of the relief I felt in unloading our house was the fact that we were free to (and did actually) move to a place where we were not dependent on gas to get to my husband’s job. Even if gas were cheap, losing all that time driving is a real drag.
Even if gas was a penny a gallon, you would have to be crazy to do this commute. I don’t care how much “elbow” room you would get. 104 miles!?!?!? Wow! Just wow!
You could add scores of books about peak oil plus thousands of online blog posts and COMMON FREAKIN’ SENSE to realize this. I am still dumbstruck by these dumbass people.
“As the housing crisis intensifies, so do homeowners association headaches. Association boards these days are grappling with how to handle unsightly foreclosures and collect monthly dues - critical for maintaining common areas and padding reserves - when so many residents are feeling squeezed by the economy.”
Took a drive today through an area north of Tampa that has been HOA’ed to death. Mile after mile of “fucco” (fake stucco) developments with names like “Sandpiper Cove”, etc. I don’t get why anyone in their right mind would even buy in a HOA these days, it’s such a disaster. I can see where it might work in an older, more established community of stable, resident homeowners. But in these times, you’ve gotta be nutz to buy in a newly developed HOA, you’re just asking for an azz pounding.
“fucco” (fake stucco)
Good one, one to remember…
Try not to get fucco’d…
A blast from the blast, Mr. Get Stucco…
whoops, past…
flippin’ keayboard…
“Some agents who specialize in REOs said about half the buyers now scouring the market for deals on bank-owned properties are people who want to live in the homes, while the other half are seeking investment property to rent out.”
“But even at today’s REO prices, some investors are waiting to buy because they can’t get enough monthly rental income to cover their mortgage and expenses.”
“True, said agent Peter Carey, but the ones buying now are ‘gambling on better times’ in the future, he said, hoping to buy property in the $400,000s that will eventually gain value.”
It is imperative for the Fed to restart housing price inflation, in order to make this latest generation of flippers look smart a few years up the road, when their present day folly looks like a smart move through the lens of the rear view mirror. The unsavory alternative is further housing price deflation, which would be ba-a-a-ad for lenders holding on to falling knives they cannot sell.
Cheri Sullivan and 3 others are going to pick the winner of the an essay contest to the 7000 morons dumb enough to pay $200 a pop to submit one. Whoever wins this “dream home” in Riverside…..I mean Lake Elsinore will have a giant tax bill to pay on this great win. What will that be on $1.4 million……. hmmm about the same as the price of her neighbors homes that aren’t selling anyway. She will for certain get only 3 entries, one from an attorney, a restaurant manager, and a yoga instructor.
What about the winners tax liability all due in the first year on state and fed. taxes?
The winner would face a large sales tax along with the annual taxes.
Sales tax? Am I missing something? Real property transactions are not subject to sales tax.
income tax on winnings..
true.. they’ll need to come up with a ton of money… Unless they’ve got cash laying around, they’ll have to sell the house to pay the tax bill. But in this market??
hmm.. lets see.. i know!
They could have a lottery. Sell a bunch of tickets at $200 each, and give the house to the lucky winner.
Flip That Ticket
FED is running out of fingers to plug all the holes
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQty_l4.z_1M&refer=home
Does anyone notice a small omission from this article.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=achs5_KU4K0c&refer=home
Are US lending rates higher than inflation? I sure don’t get real inflation interest when I loan my $ to the bank or the government. You can still get a 6% rate on a 30 year, real inflation is greater than this.
I’d say we are guilty of the same thing. Thus the same conclussion can be drawn.
“What they didn’t expect was the competition - so fierce that they’ve been outbid on four houses priced at around $500,000.”
I realize that four houses does not an escalating market make, however, why is there so much damn demand (need) to buy a house?
It’s just hard for me to believe that there’s more left than the 70% who already “own” the homes they live in…
There’s still a ton of people who would risk anything to get their piece of the American Nightmare.. same old mesmerized mania.. The market has hit bottom. Banks are having once-in-a-lifetime fire sales to unload REOs at rock bottom prices. Buy now or be priced out forever. Real Estate prices can only go up from here.
it’s 1:55 am.. last call! (until 6 am)
There could be some small areas that have approached a bottom, but they are likely the ones that had the smallest runup with respect to area incomes.
It’s highly unlikely that the majority of the country has even come close to a bottom…though if knifecatchers continue to spend money in defiance of common sense it will take longer than it should.