The Housing Bubble

Spot on. It gets much worse when bailout programs like the Frank-Dodd plan provide massive financial rewards for stupidity.

It’s even worser.

CAPM. Efficient markets. Risk-adjusted portfolio optimization. Index funds for everyone.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

All you have to do is look at ETrade commercials about some guy buying online for the first time on the “Hong Kong” stock exchange. The ad agency that wrote the commercial felt the need to describe it as “in China.” That drives my spouse NUTS since people that have to be told where Hong Kong is are too stupid to be trusted investing even their own funds.

That was supposed to be cute I think. He was letting it sink in how far afield he could trade.

Or precious metals.

Excellent point. The Senate is doing exactly what it was designed to do, stop or slow down legislation. Bi-partisanship for it’s own sake is nothing more than agreed upon stupidity. Ethanol has bi-partisan support, the Patriot Act was passed with massive bi-partisan support, the Iraq war authorization, I could go on but you get the point.

This country has a lot of problems, but partisanship is not one of them.

I don’t think the senate is about perpetuating partisan politics. It was set up as a check and balance against the “tyranny of the popular vote”.

House of Representatives = based on population.
Senate = based on geographics (state boundaries)

The senate was set up to seduce the individual states into the federal union without having to balk at having a smaller population. So a state with a small population like Alaska or Wyoming has equal power as a state like New York or California.

It was not intended to be PARTISAN, as we use that term today, along party lines. It WAS intended to increase inertia, and it was intended to prevent the big states from overwhelming the little states. I don’t know at what point in our history that we went from New York congressmen digging in against Virginia congressmen, to Democratic congressmen from New York and Virginia digging in against Republican congressman from New York and Virginia. Definitely a change for the worse.

The Senate is check on the majority oppressing the minority. You’re right about the smaller states, it does give them disproportionate power. Is it about perpetuating partisan politics, no. But it is also not about the mindless, idiotic praise of bipartisan legislation that we constantly hear.

Good legislation is good legislation, the breakdown of the party vote on it does not determine whether or not a bill that has been passed is useful.

“Whenever the Republicans talk of cutting taxes first and discussing the national security second, they remind me of a very tired rich man who said to his chauffeur: “Drive off that cliff, James, I want to commit suicide.”"

Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.

Political parties came into being before the ink was dry on the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

If I recall correctly, there were two opinions about America-
Hamilton wanted an economic powerhouse to compete with England. Jefferson wanted a nation of small independent farmers/landowners-agrarian.

You must remember that in the beginning, only landowners (read poll tax) could vote for the house. The senate was appointed by the the political elite in their respective states.

Thus the confilict was the small land owner (did not cover women, indentured servants, slaves and other riferaft.) and the political elites that controlled the machinery of govt in each individual states.
lol

riferaft? Interesting new term for me. Conjures up a mental image of a political system rife with riff-raff, who will soon be needing a liferaft.

If foolish people buy overvalued assets with their cash, that is their problem.

Sounds familiar?

Didn’t some Japanese investors take a bath on NY, LA and Hawaiian real estate in the late 80’s and early 90’s?

I remember the hue and cry when they bought the Pebble Beach golf course (and resort, perhaps) for some large sum, and then sold it several years later at a huge loss.

Serious bath! Rockefeller Center too.

He was being facetious.

Most people in America, at least in the 1980/s did not realize that the biggest owners of America were the Europeans (Brits, Dutch and the Swiss in particular.) Up until the credit craze/debt problem of the last 20 years however, their investments (starting with the railroads and large ranches out west) were primarily capital improvements. Now, foreigners are buying up existing infrastructure, somewhat similar to the Japanese in the 80’s. If there is another crash of America’s infrastructure assets, will foreigners from the Middle East and Asia along with Hedggies meet with a similar fate?

Depending how this all works out, it can result in us looking like financial geniuses or debt slaves.

So far we are one for one.

“The only “looters” in America today are people who are getting away without paying their mortgages AND getting handouts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars on top of that.”

So you think that the people who gave uneducated, dishonest, or specuvesting FBs are not also looting from not only their stockholders, but the govt by way of moral hazard?

How come you never get upset that Uncle Sam is bailing out Wall St? It seems the only bad guys in your universe are people without money.

Please.

Straight on.

But don’t worry Congress will step in and say that Bud is a critical industry and we can’t sell it to the Socialist Belgians.

Straight on.

So why isn’t EVERYONE outraged about these handouts? Eliminating the income tax on forgiven mortgage debt is an unbelievably large handout. Your typical person who walks away from his house gets the equivalent $35,000 check for every 100K upside down he was!

One problem with Americans is they don’t see tax breaks as handouts. There’s ABSOLUTELY no difference.

Separate yourself from the maddening herd that has their wealth tied to Dollars, and watch the spectacle unfold to your advantage…

Revenge is a dish best served Gold

How come you never get upset that Uncle Sam is bailing out Wall St? It seems the only bad guys in your universe are people without money.

Because I’m not an elitist!

I guess I can have the attitude–as you do–that I can’t blame these “poor people” for trying to get-rich-quick, and then whining when they “lose their homes” because, well, they’re POOR PEOPLE! They’re so poor and stupid that we have to take care and coddle them. And we certainly can’t hold them responsible for their actions.

I can hardly call someone who’s introducing capital into the United States a “looter”

I think that both FBs and bankers are guilty of this mess. Show me a single post I have ever made stating that FBs should be bailed out.

You’ve stated very clearly that you think the banking sector is blameless because they in “introduce capital”, when their so-called capital is really just empty bubble equity, as well as cash stolen from unsuspecting foreign investors and pension funds.

Muggy,

“Warm Natty Ice on a hot day?” Never heard of it. Is this a new brand of beer?
Whatever, I absolutely refuse to drink warm beer like a warm soda. It has to be so “ice cold” and preferably a “light lager” that it numbs the taste buds. Now thats a good beer even at zero degrees outside though preferable on a hot day.
lol

Never heard of Natty Ice? The frat party staple? You must have attended a really nice college ;).

sorry, west coast school, however we had acid and other misc. drugs to supplement. And, of course we always had the old stand-in, vodka, orange juice and cheap wine mixed with dry ice. Ala Animal House. And we had a monkey at our frat house. Scared the cr*ap out of everyone, especially when loaded. How about you?

Well, if you’re talking upscale cocktails, then its all about Jesus Juice–grain alcohol from W. Va (ten miles away) mixed with purple coolaid, in a giant plastic tub.

Meshell, did we go to the same public university? Hell yeah Natty Ice and the tub full of whatever.

Generic brands will be making a comeback in the next few years.

Anybody ever have Golden Anniversary? I think it was like 3 bucks for a case.

We referred to it as “No Name” beer.

I’d like to bring that back as a decent brew, I’d guess there are lots of us who remember that and would probably at least try it out of novelty value.

From http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/interest.htm

1984 … Falstaff launches some specialty beers including M*A*S*H 4077 Beer, Polska Piwo and the famous white generic “BEER” brand. The ad slogan was “BEER, ask for it by name”.

I remember swigging the stuff back when we lived in the 10′x50′ single-wide. Nasty swill.

Repo Man, Emilio Estevez.

“Shirt”

What’s in the trunk?

Standard Operating Procedure……..from my A & P school days:

Drink the good stuff, until you get a buzz. Then drink the cheap stuff the rest of the day.

Plan B was to just go straight to the “Rocket Fuel”……..Hawaiian Punch, Seven-Up and Everclear.

gulfstream-sitter,

Isn’t “everclear” 200% proof-moonshine? We use to throw that into the drink tub also. You got to be careful with this stuff, especially if you are smoking!!!

lol

Most appropriate dialog from Repo man:
Bud: Credit is a sacred trust, it’s what our free society is founded on. Do you think they give a damn about their bills in Russia? I said, do you think they give a damn about their bills in Russia?
Otto: They don’t pay bills in Russia, it’s all free.
Bud: All free? Free my ass. What are you, a fuckin’ commie? Huh?
Otto: No, I ain’t no commie.
Bud: Well, you better not be. I don’t want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

An equally good movie also by director Alex Cox, but seldom seen… an “acid western”

“Walker”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_(film)

lostcontrol:

It’s safe when mixed properly. But if you don’t mix it properly, you could end up playing tackle football in cutoff jeans (no pads), on a gravel parking lot.

Don’t ask me how I know this……:)

When you have Schlitz, you’re outta beer.

Its more a monoply than a dealership.

The average microbrewer earns enough to exceed the existing payroll tax cap??

There’s no incentive for a small businessman to work harder or expand his business when, under Barack H. Obama’s tax plan, you’ll only get to keep 36 cents on each additional dollar you earn. (9.5% state income tax + 39% fed + 15.8% payroll tax).

Either you’ll stop working, or find a way of cheating.
(like Steve Jobs! He pays himself $1/year to beat the payroll tax, and takes his income in backdated stock options. With Al Gore on his board to deflect criminal investigation)

As opposed to loosing your wealth via inflation which is how GW and crew have been taxing us.
Borrow and spend is no different.

Either you’ll stop working, or find a way of cheating.

Sounds like an easy way to “cheat” is to move away from California and their 9.3% top income tax rate.

Or maybe you could “cheat” and spend some of that extra revenue for capital improvements instead of paying it out to yourself immediately. You own the business, what’s the difference if the dollar is reflected in the value of the company or the value of your bank account?

move away from California and their 9.3% top income tax rate ?

Why do you think Nevada has grown so rapidly…

Either you’ll stop working, or find a way of cheating.
(like Steve Jobs! He pays himself $1/year to beat the payroll tax, and takes his income in backdated stock options. With Al Gore on his board to deflect criminal investigation)

Which is why Obama is proposing a 28% capital gains tax.

I was riding my bike through an area of Roseville (Sac) last night, and couldn’t believe the size of the houses vs. the size of the lots. I mean they’re just massive, ornate, stucco structures with castle-like entryways. I totally agree, I would much rather have a smaller place on more land.

Hmmmm . . . remember advising on here in Dec. of ‘06 to buy corn.

Hwy50 - absolutely right. You don’t need a badge and a gun to sift through publicly-available information and MLS records, which IMO is the best first step. The FBI should contract the work out, with some on-site oversight to prevent zealotry that itself would be illegal. The contractor would pay the bounties based on confirmation that the tips were accurate, then forward those for prosecution.

Disposable diapers are expensive. I read somewhere that formula is one of the most frequently-shoplifted items. Some stores keep it locked up.

I had an chance to rid the world of Jesse Jackson during the LA riots. I was guarding the post office on Gage and Normandy, when the reverend and his thug pose showed up.
It was “mothers day” (welfare check day)so about 1500 people were in front of the post office demanding there checks.Even though every bank was shut down and every check cashing store was burnt down.
Jesse pull up like the president waved at the people, said he was going to meet with the postal officials and get the people there checks. then he walked strait toward me I’m holding my rifle at my waist in a sling with the barrel pointed out, and he walk up and says “DON’T POINT THAT AT ME” I look him in the eye and say “DON’T STAND IN FRONT OF IT”. Should of had a weapon malfunction right then and there.
The prick and his crew mumbled something took at step to the left and went in the post office. Still didnt get the checks. That guy is a prick who feeds off the poor.
I could have save the world some grief that day.

I could have save the world some grief that day. I’m glad you didn’t. Unless you were in an armored vehicle, you wouldn’t have remained physically intact very long after your weapon “malfunctioned.” There’s more than enough senseless violence to go around.

Too bad, that low life Jackson didn’t do a damn thing for the people in New Orleans…Instead he assaulted the Duke lacrosse players and NEVER apologized.

He had no guts to demand a JOBS march , so they imported 15,000+ Illegals to do the clean up work

I guess he knew those people in the 9th ward would never show up for the jobs.

He had no guts to demand a JOBS march …

Good point.

No taxes need apply

No yield either. You don’t stay wealthy putting your assets into gold, regardless of taxes. Zero real return over the long run and possibly much worse over the short run.

Beats -90% instantaneously.

And you only need to time it around your probable departure from this world. Not perfect but it works.

Corp’se America seems to have a population threshold, before they’ll invade little towns, and suck the life out of them.

Oakhurst, Ca. (on the way to Yosemite) is a good example of the damage they can do…

Nonsense, of course there’s income. Two transactions are just being made in opposite directions so the receivables cancel each other out.

That’s politic-speak. There is no income. Just a trading of service. Crap. This is why we have taxes in the first place for goobermint. I say that full well working for a county goobermint agency. Nonetheless, if I make dinner and my wife does the lawn, there is no income exchanged.

Crikey, the best thing that could happen is if everyone went to bartering. WS, the fed, the IRS, and DC would crap their pants so fast.

Opt out of the game and see what they do.

I’m at 2.16 in Amarillo TX.

I am 2.56% in Arlington, TX.

Looks like you got quite the deal in Amarillo!

“I don’t understand how people get so posessive about street parking on the portion of a public street that happens to be in front of their house.”

You might feel differently if you had had to look at an assortment of beat-up/leaking junkers owned by the low-lifes next door every day. It made me question sometimes why I should keep my place up (although I did) when all I could see when I looked out my front window was a jacked-up truck that looked like it had been in a fire.

This gets back to the endless debate about the virtue of HOAs. Some people love ‘em, other hate ‘em. A tough HOA can prohibit parking in the street after a certain hour (my mother’s had that). In some areas around here, you’ll see an old Jeep in the driveway and the engine next to it, and it will stay there forever. Just depends on what you want, and what you’re willing to trade for it.

Popcorn???

Who can afford popcorn?

Here’s a review of the various Parsi cookbooks.

I like the Pinchet Ong book too that came out last year.

I had an Indian girlfriend in grad school. Thank goodness she taught me how to cook, because there are very few places outside of large cities that have good Indian food. Finding fresh spices and unique ethnic ingredients is a pain, but luckily not so hard lately as more immigrants have moved to the community.

Fresh spices? Like curry leaves? You can grow that, it’s a low maintenance hardy plant. Not exactly rocket science.

Same with the tiny fiery green chillies (prik kee noo in Thai.)

And there’s this marvelous new invention called the Internet to obtain dried spices. You should check that out sometime.

Finding fresh spices is just a pain, not impossible. That means It’s not always easy or convenient to find mustard oil, amchur, asafetida, kalonji, or true cinnamon. Getting fresh galangal, holy basil or kaffir lime leaf (Thai) anytime I need it is also difficult.

Unfortunately, growing any plants in my rented condo is very difficult for a variety of reasons. I don’t want to move again until I actually find something I want to buy, so I might be stuck living here a couple more years.

Oils, I might agree.

I’d agree on the fresh Thai stuff too. Not so easy outside the major metropolitans. Thankfully, I live in one. However, if you do find it, many classic Thai pastes freeze beautifully.

Aamchur lasts forever even outside. You can also just make your own. Hardly rocket science.

Just store the kalonji in your fridge along with the sesame and the poppy seeds. They’ll last forever too so spare me your whines unless you have some fine cheese to go with that…

I think the dollar is doomed, the Chinese will have to lift their peg as it slides and that will probably be enough.
Still, the currency has a little inertia left.

I think the dollar is doomed ??

Hand the FED reins to Paul Volker for one year and see how that would change…

Tornadoes and floods I can handle…..people who come to America and don’t bother trying to learn ingles, not so much.

My HS in Norwalk CT was more of a trades HS, i had drafting print shop electronics and i was assistant photographer of the yearbook, but foreign languages were not meant for people like us. I probably could have pushed and taken something but it was discouraged by the guidance consulars

The way the American educational system teaches foreign languages pretty much guarantees very, very few will ever master one. The best way & time to learn a foreign language is one-on-one teaching by untrained fluent individuals with no other qualifications (e.g., parents, siblings, & neighbors) when the child is 2-6 years old. That’s how virtually everyone learns their first foreign language (their “mother” tongue). By the time the schools get a round tuit, it’s too late for most of their students.

There’s something in the human brain that effectively shuts down around puberty (when other things start up) - it’s the ability to learn languages. So..if you want your kids to learn a foreign language, early exposure is critical. You can learn later, but it’s much much more difficult.

I studied French and Latin in HS and had to take part of my MA finals (Linguistics) in Spanish. I also have studied Attic Greek, Koine Greek, modern Greek, Lakota, Crow, Sanskrit, Old English, Icelandic, Old Norse, Navajo, and Ute.

Why? Good question. Now my brain is full of stuff I can’t ever use, all cluttered up and there’s no room for anything practical.

(But it doesn’t matter, since I was raised by wolves and communicate quite well with canines.)

Depends on the language(s).

See, if you speak only Tulu, Wilamowicean, and Catawba, probably pretty useless.

But add Chinese…

Um, sometimes I wonder how well they speak English.

I get a lot of people that speak Spanish and something that resembles English if you really concentrate.

Sorry, my long experience with teachers that couldn’t communicate in engineering school has left me jaded.

Those guys spoke multiple languages… none well.

My dad was raised fluent in Polish & English. Once he left his home town, his Polish was of little help to him. The only times it came in handy were when he met Soviet soldiers in Europe in 1945 and when he wanted to get rid of a panhandler. He never met a panhandler who could understand that language!

Reminds me of my vector calculus professor. Very polite japanese man. If he spoke English at all (and to this day, I am not at all sure), it was so mangled as to defy comprehension. Of course, vector calculus is its own bizarre language. He would start the lecture at one side of the board with his back to the class and start writing while talking into the board. This was back in the old days when we still had chalkboards instead of powerpoints and screens, etc. The complicating factor was that he would often wear sweaters with somewhat baggy sleeves. He would periodically stop and go back to refer to something he had written, and when he did, the sleeves would effectively obliterate about half of what he had just scrawled.

I did not do so well in that class.

I had a Polish Physics profess in college who kept talking about WWII. I never could figure out which side he was on.

I had to point out to a Polish-born priest who was criticizing America’s crumbling roadways that there is generally no waiting list to get into his country.

Perhaps someday we’ll learn to sit on our hands and watch our backs. Ingrates.

So learn spanish and quit whining.

I always thought the name global warming was a problem. The result of the green house gas increase might result in far more complicated efffects than “global warming”.

If we look at the global energy balance you have to say what happens to ocean temperatures as the ice melts? It really pulls down the temperature of the oceans and that could cause a cooling of the over all enviroment.

Various feedback mechanisms could make that happen for a long long time. It could aslo lead to more extreme climate differences in other areas. Lower rainfall and much higher temperatures (dry air effects) in the equatorial regions.

Africa/America/Europe all see different effects because the ocean currents/circulation are very different.

You guys make up your minds!

Man it hasn’t been cool here in Amarillo tx. This is the hottest spring I’ve seen in over 10 years. We are getting these blast furnace days where it’s up to 105 degrees with 50 mile an hour winds. We are finally getting a cool front today that will bring it to around 90 with lighter winds.

Is June skiing in Aspen a very bad thing? Then it’s global warming. If it’s not so bad, then, well… call it whatever you want.

Example: More snow might mean more mosquitos in the CO Rockies this summer due to all the additional moisture. Some could spread West Nile virus. So if that’s the case, it’s GW for sure.

This GW stuff is pretty simple once you get the hang of it.

You mean by blaming anything unusual on global warming?? That seems pretty convenient.

GW as advocated around the world (blaming mankind, greenhouse gases and other drivel) defies common sense.

Bush’s fault. No other explanation.

The worst thing about this disaster of our own making, is the evangs will cling ever harder to the notion that the end-times are upon us, as it’s all they have left of their curious power over the rest of the country, having gone all in, with ’ssshrubery & co.

It’s pretty amazing how the left wing GW doomsayers, the right wing Christian end-timers, and the other assorted paranoids end up sounding exactly the same at some point, isn’t it?

It is very effective for selling books and other assorted survivalist consumer junk, I will admit.

Never underestimate the power of blind faith…

Praytell, which evangs are you talking about? The religious kind or the environmental kind? Both are in Bush & co.’s pants.

Some of those end timers are a bit too shrill even for me.

We’ve been in the end times for over 2,000 years…IMHO things have to get a lot worse before it all comes to a screeching halt. Every generation seems to think theirs is the last one. I doubt we’re there yet.

environmental kind?

Where art thou in ’ssshrubery’s totenhosen?

There are different kinds of “end time.” The little “end time” is when everyone else dies, the big “end time” is when I die.

Funny all the zealots talk about the end times and will be wisked away to their paradise of whatever…if it’s so great I wish they move themselves there asap ,and leave more room for us down here.

I live on a mound like that. The dirt-movers built up the site so it’s 4 ft above the first flood plain contour.

Gee I hope it works.

LOL

if in ya runs out of the propane, just get yourself some hot Dickens Cider….warms ya right up, everytime.

I stayed a week at a motel right next to Torrey Pines golf course in October 1994 & was amazed at the temperate weather. There was no A/C in the room, built around the 1950’s with huge redwood beams & a lot of space. The windows were huge & left open day & night. The breeze was mostly off the ocean which could be seen in the distance. The room temps were ideal. The air was incredibly clean. The drawback was that I got used to clean air & had severe nasal allergic reactions when I got off the plane in Cleveland.

In the middle ages, people used to get up in the middle of the night, often to pray (matins @ 3 a.m.), but they also used to visit with neighbors, have a small snack, etc. The Smithsonian did a short piece about this years ago, I no longer have the reference.

We used to share our bed with a toddler or two, invariably you get woken up at some point, usually by getting kicked in the head by a two-foot tall person sleeping sideways.

About Babs…

“Circus dogs jump when the trainer cracks his whip, but the really well-trained dog is the one that turns his somersault when there is no whip.”

George Orwell

Smokes!

I could only dream about housing that affordable here in Southern Ca. Yeah, the comment about the 55K job is right on. Where are going to find that in Rottenchester, as one bard called it yesterday on this board?

That home is cute. Not my dream home, but knock it down to 90-95K and I might bite someday, if I could find a job there and finally decide enough is enough w/Clownifornia. Hard to break the ties after 22 years, though.

WT, you do realize that even at min. wage, life is going to be tough with or without the house. What about health/dental insurance? Min. wage jobs don’t usually pay that.

Also, taxes in NY state. I don’t mind 4500m on that house, but what about if the rates go up? All I hear is about NY taxes from some of you on this board. Why do you think we have Prop 13 out here in CA? ‘Cause I don’t want 4500 one year and 6500 the next and then 5500 the third and 7500 in the fourth. How do plan for that? Honey, we need a 3rd job between us and no vacation this year to Cooperstown.

That’s another problem around here, the rents are stiff because the landlord has to pay the outrageous taxes. A 3 BR, 1.5 bath house in the inner burbs will cost anywhere from $1100-1300 and more a month.

Here’s an example:

Rental link

“it isn’t yet the epicenter of the housing bubble that is CA, FL, NV and AZ.”

I re-read your post, I’m not knocking you, but this is precisely the irony of upstate thinking: I live in the St. Pete area now, and now that the bust is on it looks like Rochester when I was growing up there. Seriously, Rochester has never stopped having abandoned buildings, ever. Downtown Clearwater, now, looks like Rochester in the early 90’s. I’m not kidding. It took the world’s largest bubble in the history of mankind to make Florida look like Rochester when it was booming.

As many have noted here, the bubble prevented price declines in upstate. Just wait, you’ll see.

I still love the Roc…

Muggy, I agree with your sad description. But you forgot to add $200 million Renaissance Square project and the razing of Midtown and the Blue Cross Arena improvements to the list of goodies coming to the abused taxpayer.

I took a couple rides on the Fast Ferry and it was a fantastic ship that was ill served by government control. The soccer stadium was a bad idea from the start, as was High Falls. A lot of good intentions gone badly and that is a sad, expensive fact. It seems that the Fast Ferry, soccer stadium and High Falls had private backing that disappeared once the bills came due. It’s usually the case that a smart business person will con a government worker more times than not and it has happened often here.

Are you going to be here for one of the more entertaining and sales tax generating weeks in Rochester; the Jazz Fest? That’s one instance where local government involvement worked out.

Have you ever seen this parody?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnQbpdu0zoM

Yeah, that’s hilarrious and disturbing at the same time. But, but, but…. the Lusty Life video retreat closed!

“I love upstate, it’s my favorite place in the world. I’ll be there next week, in fact. What I can’t stand is the upstate mentality. Rochesterians will believe in anything and that’s sad…”

BINGO BINGO BINGO! And it’s not just rochester folks!!!

As a native VT’er and upstater, Granville, NY/West Pawlet, VT (state border runs through the village) to be precise, I can attest to this fact. The mentality is fawking SAD and I understand why. The native folk where I’m from have been beaten down, kicked and $hit on by a crappy economy for so long (since 1980) that they’ll believe anything someone says that might bring a reversal of fortune for everyone. It’s beyond sad. Truly pathetic. And the housing bubble represents that reversal “and goll darnit, you ain’t taking it away” because it’s the only hope for better times they’ve got. The only real hope is *leaving* for more lucrative work. So many I know, including myself have done so and I’m glad I did.

Thank you for putting a tighter frame on that issue, exeter. Well said, well said.

Among many things I witnessed, the saddest was watching Kodak hack, hack away. When I was a teenager my dad took me on a chartered fishing trip. The guy that owned the boat was one of his friends who’d been laid off and my dad was helping him out, even though I know a chartered fishing trip wasn’t in my dad’s budget. He ended up getting divorced, selling the boat and so on. That had a huge impact on me… spending the day on that boat watching two grown men pretend everything is o.k. That was the late 80’s.

I got really pissed when “reporters” used to write about Gen X not committing to corporations. I’m not an idiot; unrequited love is a a man casting his last line while his buddy sips on Genny, hoping he’s not next.

Muggy,

I loved that youtube video: Rochester: City of Poverty.

I sent it to my husband and told him next time the chickie in the Rochester office condescendingly refers to someone from the Syracuse office as a 315-er to send her that video.

Of course, if she’s good, she’ll find herself a Syracuse version to send back.

I can’t be too harsh, I married a 315′er. Lucky fer me she gots all hur toofuses.

“I married a 315′er.”

And we met in Buffalo! A true upstate love story! Awwww.

When we die, we’ll bury our livers in Buffalo, our stomachs in Rochester, our brains in Ithaca, our eyes in Skaneateles, and our teeth in Syracuse. The rest will be sold by some guy in Hilton to some guy in Jersey. Haha!

Muggy-
My 315er and I met over a keg of beer in Ashland, MA. (I think he left his liver in Daytona-ha!) Eventually he made me a 315er too.

My kids LOVE our new town. I guess that makes them little 315ers. I have to say this school district is amazingly professional. Almost worth all the school taxes (which I know are rolled into the rent)

Incidently I meant to tell you, on the list of area schools from this particular part of the state, Skaneateles (your fave place, hometown?) is considered #1. Luckily for us #2 was in striking distance.

“Skaneateles (your fave place, hometown?)”

I have family in Skaneateles, and yes it’s my favorite place in the entire world. If I had the means, I’d buy one of those mixed use buildings on Genesee St. that face the town on one side and the lake on the other.

I don’t really care that some people are bi-coastal, have a ski place in Aspen, a flat in London and so on, but I am seriously jealous of people that can afford Skantown and a winter place in Florida; Pass-A-Grille and Skaneateles, that’d be it for me.

OK, I know when I’ve met my match.

(ataɣastā!)

Do not force me to insult you again in an obscure Altaic tongue…

As if the “canned mushrooms” quip wasn’t brutal enough.

Yeah, that WAS bad. I don’t even like fresh mushrooms, yet alone canned. Below the belt.

I am a food snob and proud of it… *doink* (sound of a can of mushrooms being bounced off JW’s noggin)…

OK, the bar has been set. I bet you can’t beat what I had for breakfast:

Left over Subway sandwich - and even my dogs wouldn’t eat the scraps!

I feel kinda sick (no frige, so can’t cook, not that I did when I had one…).

Did we not just witness and document the largest misuse of capital in history in an error of generationally low cap gains

Another fraudian slip. Make that “era of”. But hey, error works too.

But money was moving.

So look at the correlation: Capital gains on houses was 0%. Did it lead to investment? Yep. Anyone want to claim that this was better than a slower investment environment?

I certainly wouldn’t make that claim. The appreciation of housing prices fed further investment in a sector of the economy that shouldn’t have been taking such inflows. They aren’t call booms for nothing! The inevitable bust is the bitch. Tax increases on “productive” sectors of the economy sure aren’t going to help during that bust. Anyone that declares that the energy sector is not a major capital producing sector of the economy is kidding themselves. I guess we could always nationalize our energy companies. We’re already waist deep in socialism, why not just dive full in?

We’re already waist deep in socialism

Hey, not everyone lives in Santa Cruz…
OT: Actually, I really liked visiting there when I lived in Silicon Valley. It was a LOT less tense. What is it that makes you say it sux? I’m genuinely curious, cuz it’s on the list of places I’d consider moving.

You should post here more often, santacruzsux. Thank you.

I guess we could always nationalize our energy companies. If the nationalized energy company would sell me all the gasoline I want for $1/gal, all the NG I want for $5/mcf, & all the electricity I want for 4 cents/kwh, I’d support that. But I want a free pony, too.

Hey JP. I wouldn’t say Santa Cruz sucks in general. Like all towns it has its share of problems and some that are unique to that particular environment i.e. homeless supermagnet. I chose the handle “santacruzsux” from a local Santa Cruz band compilation CD that came out years and years ago. I played with some of the guys and girls in those bands. I joined this blog when I still lived in Santa Cruz and thought that handle was appropos.

If you have a good job, or are independently wealthy then Santa Cruz rocks! If you’re poor and don’t care about your housing situation or how you live in general, once again Santa Cruz rocks! If you’re anywhere in between then IMHO Santa Cruz “sux”. It is far too expensive of an evironment to live well on a modest salary. If you love the ocean, redwood trees and don’t ever have to go “over the hill” to San Jose then for many people the premium to live there is acceptable.

I

Thanks for the feedback. I hear you about cost of living… I watch the housing there (it’s dropped, not by enough tho– maybe it’s different there), but I haven’t yet crossed it off my list.

I’m in complete agreement. No more corporate socialism.

Financial hocus pocus can only get you so far, before you lose focus…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5InLw52U

Hoz:

Hee, hee. Very good.

Fran - that’s how I do it - I’ve voted against all incumbents for the past ten years. For Prez, I’m writing in Ron Paul. As a local RP campaign leader used to sign his e-mails, if you vote for the lesser of two evils, you’re still voting for evil.

Since when did Israel’s self interest become our own? Disagreeing with them once in awhile does not make you anti-Semitic, by the way.

Amen to that.

My bedroom set is 24 years old. It looks like something Ron Burgundy would like.

Same here…..15 years going on as-long-as-possible, and the couch still provides a very pleasant nap.

“My bedroom set is 24 years old. It looks like something Ron Burgundy would like.”

Gotcha way beat! We’re using the bedroom set my grandparents bought my parents for their wedding gift. Got my new suite picked out, though. Not going to buy it until I eventually buy a house.

“If you have been responsible and saved a lot for your retirement, allow you to draw from your retirement accounts tax free in return for waiving your claim to Social Security benefits?”

I could go for having that option. As you mentioned, we live frugally so its 50-50 whether we’d take it or not.

If government bailouts ever happen, it ought to be on the condition that the FBs benefiting waive their right to collect social security. Not that I think either will happen, though.

Oh, you meant my landlady - whoops, SHE stole everything (darn)…

How about plumbing? Should one bring a port-a-potty?

No, that one’s covered or I’d be long gone…

I mean, one can only go so low