Good News For Buyers Is Always Bad News For Sellers
The Desplains Times reports from Illinois. “Last month Dan decided to stop paying his mortgage. It was hard for him. Dan, who is in his 20s and grew up in Chicago’s Edison Park community, paid all his bills, always on time, and is proud of it. Dan started looking for a place of his own with his girlfriend in 2004 and 2005. They fell in love with a 900-square-foot townhouse in Schaumburg. They settled on a final price of $179,000, a bit expensive but still reasonable, he thought.”
“‘Prices were rising, inventory was decreasing,’ Dan said. ‘I had this mentality that if I didn’t buy something now, I’d never be able to afford anything.’”
“To finance the purchase he obtained two mortgages, one for 80 percent of the purchase price and the other for 20 percent. Dan’s loan would be fixed for two years, an Adjustable Rate Mortgage.”
“‘I was so sure prices were going to go up,’ he said. ‘It was a ridiculous product. It had all these balloon payments.’”
“Then Dan, who had worked in downtown Chicago, lost his job. At the same time the adjustable mortgage was threatening to take his monthly payments from $1,475 to $1,720.”
“He moved with his girlfriend, who has since become his wife, to Jackson Hole, Wyo., where he got a job working as, ironically, a real-estate agent. They listed the Schaumburg townhouse for sale at $175,000 in November 2007 but received no offers even though it was less than the original purchase price of the property.”
“All the while because of the rules of the property association, Dan was barred from renting his townhouse even though he had moved out of state. ‘It’s extremely frustrating, everything I’m going through trying to hold on,’ he said. ‘I can’t spend every dollar I have paying the bank when I have a daughter on the way.’”
“Dan said when he first moved he thought the condo would sell within 90 days. ‘My condo’s been on market since November and the prices keep dropping,’ he said. ‘They go down by about $5,000 every month.’”
“Dan’s credit score has been reduced from 750 before he purchased his townhouse to about 600 now, but he’s philosophic; he believes he has to plan for the future now, with his wife and yet-to-be-born daughter.”
“‘I just think that people need to hear about this,’ Dan said. ‘If anyone can learn something from it then it’s worth it. The cycle could come around again in another 20 years and maybe some young guy will read this and think twice.’”
The Evanston Review from Illinois. “Median home prices in Evanston rose 60 percent between 2000 and 2006, pushing home ownership further beyond the grasp of many middle-income wage earners, according to a study presented Monday to the City Council’s Planning and Development Committee.”
“Using a standard rule that buyers can afford to spend three times annual income, a family earning the median income of $62,000 in 2006 could afford a home priced at $186,000, according to the study. But the median price for attached condominiums and townhomes that year was $276,500, and the median price for stand-alone homes was $550,000.”
“‘Many people who live in Evanston, work in Evanston and grew up in Evanston are finding themselves priced out of the market,’ said Housing Commission chair Susan Munro.”
“None of the new construction that has taken place in Evanston over the past two years has produced housing affordable to low- or moderate-income families. In 2007, the lowest sales price for a new condominium or townhome was $242,000 and the lowest sales price for a new detached home was $781,106, according to the report.”
“Keith Banks, director of the Evanston Community Development Association, spoke to the reasons why developers are forced to rehabilitate smaller condominium units.”
“‘It takes $250,000 to $300,000 just to purchase a ‘teardown’ in the 5th Ward and you are not even talking about knocking down a wall or renovation’ — which can add another $200,000 to the cost, Banks said. ‘Then you are talking about a half a million dollars and it’s already not affordable.’”
From WPSD TV in Illinois. “Sherri Wiegand is taking the first step to a new home. She can afford to be picky. If she doesn’t like even the most trivial thing about this home, she can look at another 30 in her price range.”
“The numbers tell the story. Sales are down by 84 homes in Williamson, Jackson, and Johnston counties in Illinois from January to June 10 this year, compared to last year.”
“These trends mean sellers are more willing to negotiate with buyers. ‘That $150,000 home last year may now be only available for $120,000 to $125,000,’ says the Broker and Owner for Century 21 House of Realty in Marion, Illinois.”
“Any good news for buyers is always bad news for sellers who’ve watched the value of their home drop. Wiegand is one of those people. She’s has a home she needs to sell, but the options are just to good for her to pass up.”
“It’s not all good news for buyers. Lenders are raising their standards. Buyers have to put more money down and have higher credit scores. ‘All the unique programs to bring people in and get them mortgages have disappeared. It’s back to the banker holding the key and having expectations of the buyer,’ said Davis.”
The Ann Arbor News from Michigan. “In what could be a sign that the local housing market is finally on the mend, numbers released by an Ann Arbor Realtors group Tuesday show Washtenaw County home and condo sales jumped 24 percent in May from a year ago.”
“Prices, however, aren’t doing so hot. Short sales, foreclosures and the aftermath of a previously bloated stock of inventory have pushed the average sale price of a home in Washtenaw County to 2000 levels.”
“Median home sale prices fell nearly 8 percent both in the month of May and year to date compared to last year to around $187,000. Year to date, the average home sale price sank to $216,882 from $239,028.”
“‘The biggest thing I am hearing is that the inventory is almost depleted,’ said Sharon Snyder, president of Prudential Snyder and Co. Realtors in Ann Arbor. ‘My agents are busy and they just wish there was more product on the market. So we’d like to invite sellers to put their house on the market.’”
“Part of the reason for the drop in inventory levels has to do with Pfizer, and part has to do with price. Last year at this time is when real estate agents say a load of homes owned by Pfizer employees came on the market. Last summer, Pfizer began to relocate and lay off employees in two-week waves as the drugmaker worked toward shutting down its Ann Arbor research site.”
“And as home prices have dropped, many potential sellers - especially those who bought in the past few years at higher prices - are waiting to sell until their home values appreciate.”
The Pioneer Press from Minnesota. “The large for-sale inventory dogging the Twin Cities housing market may finally be burning off. Total listings in the 13-county metro area dropped in May from a year ago - the first such decline in years.”
“Challenges remain. Closed sales declined more than 13.4 percent in the metro, and in Dakota County they fell by more than 22 percent. Sales still were down from last year, so the area now has a 10.4-month supply of homes on the market. That’s up a tad from the 10.2-month supply in May and is up 13 percent from 9.2 months a year ago.”
“Meanwhile, the area’s median sale price continues sliding. It fell 10 percent last month from May a year ago, to $205,000. From a buyer’s perspective, of course, those drops are great news.”
“‘Everybody’s gun-shy,’ said Tom Hamilton, a professor of real estate at the University of St. Thomas. ‘Nobody has faith in the credit-rating agencies. We’re in the hangover phase.’”
“The bigger threat now to housing, said Chris Galler, chief operating officer of Edina-based Minnesota Association of Realtors, is consumer anxiety about rising food and gas costs. ‘Uncertainty is the worst thing for our market,’ Galler said.”
From NPR Morning Edition on Minnesota. ” As a crime prevention specialist for the Minneapolis Police Department, Tim Hammett knows firsthand the toll that the mortgage foreclosure crisis has taken on the city’s North Side. Sometimes it even follows him home.”
“One day not long ago, Hammett pulled up in front of his house to find a woman ripping the aluminum siding off the empty house across the street, which, like hundreds of North Minneapolis properties, was in foreclosure.”
“‘I walk up to her and I said, ‘What the heck do you think you’re doing?’ he recalls. ‘And she gives me a look that’s like, ‘This place is empty. Nobody’s living here. Who cares?’”
“When the real estate boom struck earlier this decade, investors began descending on the area, buying up houses to rent out. They liked the quiet, tree-lined streets close to downtown, and the huge supply of inexpensive old bungalows and Tudor-style houses.”
“As the boom continued, house prices soared, and many longtime residents drifted away, to be replaced by a tougher and less stable crowd of renters, says Joel Breggemann, a block club president on Dupont Avenue North.”
“‘We were seeing blatant drug dealing,’ Breggemann says. ‘We were seeing residents who spent their entire day out on the front step of the house drinking, from 8 in the morning to 2 o’clock in the morning, and would have their car parked out in front of the house with music blaring.’”
“Many of these houses ended up in foreclosure when interest rates reset and property values returned to earth.”
“The troubles have been greatly aggravated by an unusual amount of mortgage fraud, says Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Dixon. In one of the most notorious cases, a suburban real estate company, T.J. Waconia, bought numerous houses throughout North Minneapolis, using fraudulent appraisals, federal officials say.”
“The firm’s founders pleaded guilty to mail fraud this year, and 141 of its houses were placed in the hands of a court-appointed administrator. Those houses now sit empty, contributing to the huge glut of abandoned properties and compounding the crime problem.”
“If not sealed up adequately, many of these vacant properties get taken over by gangs, who use them for drug-dealing and prostitution, says Sgt. Richard Jackson of the Minneapolis Police Problem Properties Unit.’
“‘It brings a lot of the criminal element into the area,’ Jackson says.”
“‘Unfortunately, when America catches a cold, neighborhoods like North Minneapolis get pneumonia, and foreclosure hit much harder there than other parts of town,’ says Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak. ‘We know these neighborhoods, which have very good housing stock, can attract good, solid homeowners. The problem is that we have been dealing on such a large scale, because we have so many of these foreclosures.’”
“But the collapse of real estate prices in North Minneapolis threatens to undermine the city’s efforts. Some foreclosed properties are now selling for a small fraction of their peak price, which is drawing a new generation of investors to the area.”
“City officials fear that an overwhelming number of these houses will end up as low-income rentals, making it that much tougher to bring the neighborhood back.”
The Star Tribune from Minnesota. “Wells Fargo Bank has hired a commercial real estate broker to sell about 300 residential lots in two distressed Twin Cities area developments, the latest sign of tough times for area home builders.”
“The Martin Farms property includes 150 vacant developed lots and 108 acres of residential land. The asking price is $10.2 million, according to a news release by the Twin Cities office of CB Richard Ellis, which is marketing the property.”
“That’s substantially lower than the original $75,000 to $110,000 asking prices for the lots, according to Charlie J. Pfeffer, a sales associate at Pfeffer Co. Inc., a Maple Grove land broker.”
“‘That’s a pretty big bite,’ Pfeffer said of the sizable acreage being put up for sale. He estimated that the property represents five to seven years of inventory for residential lots in the Otsego area.”
“Conceived in 2003, Martin Farms was of the most ambitious new housing projects in Wright County, with plans for up to 350 houses. The project’s investors spent $34 million on the land and infrastructure improvements.”
“Wells Fargo provided stagecoach rides at the project’s grand opening marketing event. On May 1, the lender took back the project as part of a workout agreement.”
“Only 50 of the lots at Martin Farms now have houses, and 10 of those are vacant.”
“‘This was a horse that was conceived when the market was going nowhere but up,’ said Jeff Schoenwetter, a manager of Insignia and an investor in both Martin Farms and Tullamore. ‘I have no regrets about how the decision was made. I only regret that we did it.’”
“‘I’ve never seen a market decline this abrupt,’ Schoenwetter said. ‘At the time these projects were conceived … they looked like relatively intelligent business decisions.’”
I couldn’t find a first name for Davis in the WPSD article. Here are some quotes from the comments in the Star Tribune:
‘Who on gods green earth would be stupid enough to pay 75000/100000 for a postage stamp size lot out in the middle of nowhere, what has happened to common sense.’
‘I read the article about the Otsego development a few months ago. Sounds like most of the problems stemmed from greed. Greedy sellers, greedy lenders, and greedy buyers. People bought way more house then they could really afford, lenders turned their backs on any lending standards at all, and everyone just assumed that real estate could sustain an indefinite 20% - 30% annual increase. Nobody saw this coming? Some of those people bought many houses at the same time- one idiot had about a million dollars of mortgage obligations. On an annual income of maybe $60K?’
“Some of those people bought many houses at the same time- one idiot had about a million dollars of mortgage obligations. On an annual income of maybe $60K?’ ”
And, sadly, these people consider the multiple houses that they bought to be assets. No money down…mucho, mucho mortgage debt…neg am, etc. Ugh! I think not. Hopefully, they are quickly realizing that if you are a million $$ + in the hole, you are not in positive financial territory.
BayQT~
“‘The biggest thing I am hearing is that the inventory is almost depleted,’ said Sharon Snyder, president of Prudential Snyder and Co. Realtors in Ann Arbor.
WTF? The president of a Realtor group has no means to quantify the inventory, but has to rely on word of mouth? Do they not have an MSL up in Ann Arbor?
“Good News For Buyers Is Always Bad News For Sellers”
The local shills supporting a housing bailout are fond of saying that house inventories are increasing because buyers are “afraid” to buy because house prices are decreasing.
They try to suggest that by putting in an artificial bottom and keeping housing prices high, buyers will be more likely to start catching knives and jump in the market. Only a complete idiot would buy that argument, but nevertheless Congress is trying to it anyway (Dems).
Meanwhile, not a peep from these same people about the Wall St. bailout by the Fed that is keeping some companies lending money to anyone with a pulse (Reps).
The amount of stupidity and corruption out there is astounding.
NoSingleOne,
A re-write of one of your sentences: “Only a complete idiot would buy that argument, that’s why Congress is trying to it.”
thx for the rewrite. BTW, that wasn’t the only typo in that sentence.
The RE shills in Chicago, Minneapolis and everywhere in-between seem to be running the newspapers right now. Mantras are interest rate hike threats and bottoming out threats mixed with full denial.
Once the bubble psychology breaks, no amount of conniving can bring back the delusion again.
I’ll do an article later (hopefully this weekend) on the history of some of these busts.
If anything, the psychology has to turn to the other extreame. Now the other extreame might be ambivalence. But its certainly not the current environment. If anything, the knife catching is further eating away into the future customer base.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“Once the bubble psychology breaks, no amount of conniving can bring back the delusion again.”
The bubble psychology hasn’t broken, nor will it.
Think about everything you are hearing from sources (including normal people, not shills) outside of this blog. This drop in prices is considered the anomaly, not the other way around. Despite that not being true, that is considered “truth” by 9/10 of the people I come across.
And what else do we know about human nature? Greed is the natural condition, not the other way around.
“And what else do we know about human nature? Greed is the natural condition, not the other way around.”
Allow fear to enter into the picture, then see what happens.
The whole “we have record low Interest rates” ploy is so tired. I can’t wait til they raise rates. Then we’ll see how much faster the price decreases come…
I herd it through the grapevine…
“‘Prices were rising, inventory was decreasing,’ Dan said. ‘I had this mentality that if I didn’t buy something now, I’d never be able to afford anything.’”
That anecdote reminded me of a friend who I happened to see this past weekend. He bought his house at height of the bubble with almost no money down. He is in bad shape and trying to hold on now that the bank has cut off his home equity line. He said something similar to me, “everyone was saying I had to buy now and that I had to start building equity”. Most people are very susceptible to what the herd is doing, it’s sad but it seems to be part of human nature.
Don’t just sit there flappin’ your gums.
Drop by in your Ferrari with a fancy bottle of wine (or two.) Be sure to congratulate him on his homeowner status too.
This country is going to the dogs. People can’t even rub it in properly any more.
It’s so true, Faster. I’m too kind-hearted to really indulge a superior snark-fest just lately. Not now that people actually start crying. Everyone seems more frazzled nowadays, delicate like little greenhouse orchids.
Gosh, isn’t there anyone around I can brutalize and feel good about it? Where’s my Olympia Master Builder’s directory? THEY always need it, those frakkin’ lather-champing wretches.
Oh, and did you all see that I used ‘frakkin’? That’s from Battlestar Galactica. I assume you all watch Battlestar Galactica, as all right-minded properly-evolved humans do.
Cool!!! thanks, Oly, another word I can use here in Utar instead of “flippin”.
Since I don’t go to movies (no theater here), I’ve never seen that one. (OK, OK, no TV either.)
No cable here either. Otherwise I would watch it.
I assume you all watch Battlestar Galactica, as all right-minded properly-evolved humans do.
You are correct.
Although this season is not as good as the preceding ones, IMO.
Although this season is not as good as the preceding ones, IMO.
They need to stop teasing us about the identity of the 5th cylon (I say its Starbuck).
Best frakkin’ show on television. I’m going to be sad when it’s over, but already looking forward to the Caprica spinoff.
BSG started good then turned into the most unwatchable soap opera of all time. The writers should be taken outback and flogged. Those of you that watch it, admit it. At least once per show you say “give me a fracking break with that stupid fracking word”.
I have tv again after a few years off and am already thinking of canceling it again. I think their is actually more commercial time than show time now. It use to run 50/50, now it seems to be 70com/30show.
So say we all.
Unlike housing prices, BSG has clearly hit bottom and started back up (the “boxing matches” episode representing the absolute floor of the canyon). In particular, I thought that the two-parter covering Baltar’s trial, and the last two episodes, are right back to grade A.
Oh yeah - my vote for cylon #5 is Gaeta.
Frack Doghouse you beat me to the punch,
My vote for cylon #5 is also Gaeta.
Friday is the last episode for awhile.
Don’t worry Olympia. They numb up after a while.
Also its election season….
In one corner we have the hardened veteran of bubbles past… John McCain of S&L fame
In the other corner we have the newcomer Barak Obama and some cronies from FM and CFC
What choices… I’m writing in Ron Paul or Raplh Nader… not sure whick one.
and that I had to start building equity”
Oh and lemme guess, he was going to start “building equity” with a mortgage that pays only the interest, or less than only the interest, or only a little bit of interest at a ridiculously low rate.
But no, they all intended to build their equity from appreciation alone.
oxide,
Well what was so wrong about building equity in your IRA? What was so wrong with building equity in your savings account? Oh… you mean “building” FREE equity!
Right, actually saving requires effort. The Bubble held the promise of ’someone else’ building that equity for you. Only dipsh!ts build their OWN equity.
Unfortunately, you are right about that. I am not sure what his exact arrangement was but I know he had some sort of 80/20, where the 20 was a home equity line and the primary mortgage required almost no money down. It’s very unfortunate on so many levels, mainly because this is not someone in a high income bracket and he has made a mistake that is likely to take him years to recover from, if he can recover at all.
By the time he was looking at houses I had pretty much resolved to stop trying to convince people there was a bubble, it seemed to be a futile enterprise. I did advise this particular friend that he should really take his time, hoping that would at least slow him down. He was convinced that he was getting a deal because he purchased his house from someone he knew and there was no broker involved. The sad part is if he just waited a year or two he would probably have been able to afford that house or a similar one using traditional 30 yr fixed financing.
Most people are very susceptible to what the herd is doing
Shiller’s latest pop article on herds: Infectious Exuberance.
Read the part about the expected returns on SV housing. avg=14%, several believed 50%!
I really like this guy though. He recognized his mistake and said he hopes others dont repeat it in the future. He is clearly capable of reform and seems to have some integrity and humility for a change.
True that. This guy is so humble now, you may want to make a note of his name and look for him in about 15 years heading a seminar entitled, “How NOT to make a HUGE financial mistake in the Housing Market.”
You can believe that once he comes up for air, he’ll be preaching on the corners and at dinner parties. Fortunately, he is the one in, oh, *how* many (?), who has learned a VERY valuable lesson, and early enough to be able to dig himself out and start over.
Good for him.
BayQT~
Absolutely agree with you, Tim. His statement-
“Dan’s credit score has been reduced from 750 before he purchased his townhouse to about 600 now, but he’s philosophic; he believes he has to plan for the future now, with his wife and yet-to-be-born daughter.”
says a lot about a better view of the reality of his situation. I say give him one hell of a break. we all make or made stupid decisions, but seeing the light can be hard.
The current handwringing over ‘walkaways’ is lame and self-serving from MB’s and gov types. The Dan’s of the world are moving ahead with their lives, with or without outside advice on the glory of saving their house.
True. There should never be anger over those that walk away if it’s the smartest financial move at the time and there is no scam involved. If we let the bank’s take the hit they will understand why they used to require credit checks and 20% down. Anything less and the bank needs to be viewed as having assumed the risk of walk aways. It’s not a moral issue at all.
The man certaintly wasn’t stupid. He bought a condo he could afford. He had a decent job, it seemed. $189,000 (or whatever it was) for a Chicago condo is far from crazy. He fell on hard times, and was not a greedy SOB that we read about so often here.
Schaumburg is no more Chicago than Trenton is Manhattan, or San Jose is San Francisco.
The commute is killer. He was just speculating.
189,000 for 900 sqft in a that burb was a dumb idea from the get go. He did it for the 20 percent equity gain per year and anything else he says is a lie.
Yes, but he admitted it and said it was a mistake. Maybe it was just a good author, but rather than talking about how he was screwed and didnt understand what was happening, and wants to sue or get a handout, he just simply said he messed up.
It’s not so much that “moving with the herd” is the problem.
It is the “make your move before the herd changes direction tramples you” decision that people get screwed up on.
Richard Pryor used to have a bit about it. Someone in the herd would yell “Cheetah!!!!” and the herd would run like hell……except for the one guy who would look up from his grazing and say “What?????”
Guy who says “What?????” = Dinner for the cheetahs
Move sooner, not faster. — Aikido proverb
This part of the post really bopped me over the head:
“He moved with his girlfriend, who has since become his wife, to Jackson Hole, Wyo., where he got a job working as, ironically, a real-estate agent. They listed the Schaumburg townhouse for sale at $175,000 in November 2007 but received no offers even though it was less than the original purchase price of the property.”
This one truly has it all. Mortgage deadbeat becomes a real estate agent Wyoming, then expects his Illinois house to fly off the market because he dropped its price by $4k.
Sheesh.
I call this the “Beenie Baby” mentality…..Get it NOW, or you might not ever get it.
My kids (who were 7-8 at the time) were CONVINCED that they had Beenie Babies that were worth thousands of dollars, because some self-serving “price guide” said so.
And, yeah, they financed the collection with borrowed money (from the Dad State Bank).
Told them “Rare” doesn’t automatically mean desirable. some things are “rare” for a reason.
1970 HemiCuda = rare and desirable.
1970 Rambler Ambassador station wagon = rare for a reason.
Why did the State Bank of Dad™ not clamp down via a weekly repayment doing chores?
Those Beenie Babies™ sure would’ve looked expensive if they had to pay it back by giving up their free time.
Because I’m an old softy, when it comes to 6-8 year old kids, especially my own.
Not to worry…….this wears off pretty quick when they started turning into teenagers.
And the eighteen year old is figuring out that stuff is expensive, after she spent a summer bucking bales in 100 degree August heat.
‘…after she spent a summer bucking bales in 100 degree August heat.’
Hey! I’ve done that. And you picked an INCREDIBLY good object lesson to teach her the value of money. Good on ya.
Or, you could have used goat-husbandry as a similar financial wisdom teaching aid, but then you would have had to have goats, and I don’t advise that. It’d be safer to just send her to a summer day-camp in Hell. Although I bet they have goats there, too. Probably every goat that was ever born, even.
There’s a profound lesson to be learned after moving so many tons of goods by hand for so many cents per pound. The next day sore muscles will really give the worker a “feel” for the value of a dollar.
Beanie Baby Marketing Strategy 101:
1. A few weeks before Christmas begin to heavily advertise Beanie Babies on childrens TV shows.
2. Allow a few Beanie Babies to be released for sale at the toy stores. The shortage will serve to create demand because a few kids will have them but most will not. The haves will then be able to lord it over the have-nots, suggesting that the have’s mothers love them more.
This, of course, will feed back to the mothers of the have-nots, who (to demonstrate their love to their poor Beanie Baby-deprived child) will PAY ANY PRICE to obtain a Beanie Baby.
3. When the frenzy is at its max, right before Christmas, release to the toy stores the tens of thousands of stockpiled Beanie Babies.
4. Sit back and enjoy counting the millions of dollars you just made.
Let me add this to your list, gulfstreamy:
2007 mid-summer = big table at the local Olympia Lutheran church rummage sale, just COVERED with pristine Beanie babies, all for sale for the princely sum of…25 whole cents apiece.
Man……someone should have called me. I would have stocked up. My “Godzilla” beanie needs some company.
I like Godzilla…….he’s my kind of dude.
I’ll make a note to myself to let you know the next time the situation occurs. (And, oh yes–I’m sure it will occur again. They’ll probably be 15 cents apiece this year.)
Here, I’ll even write legibly. ‘Gulfstream’s Godzilla doll seeks a friend. One who likes sunsets, children, quiet strolls in the Pacific, and stamping on Tokyo.’
That ought to do it. Luckily everyone’s used to these sorts of post-its messages on my bulletin board.
Oly,
Got any Trolls on your rummage sale table. Do you remember those ugly things? They didn’t go the route of Beanie Babies or Cabbage Patch Kids, but they were definitely popular for a while.
BayQT~
I do recall the trolls, when I was a kid. My cousin had a collection. I could only look on enviously, as dolls with heads on them were for rich kids. Shall I make a note to keep an eye out for some for you, as well?
Thanks for the offer, but please don’t. LOL! If for some odd reason I need to gaze upon one of those things, I’ll just ask my 23 year old. I believe she still has hers. Don’t ask me why. LOL!
BayQT~
Does it have a head on it? It does?
You rich folks. Wallowing in your luxuries.
I watched a number of kids bubbles over the years, baseball cards, pogs, beanie babies, etc…
When the shine goes off the bubble, nobody wants em’ anymore.
Just like adult bubbles…
Oh, yes, pogs! I recall those! But baseball cards are still neat and will not lose their shine. At least for some. A friend of mine is insanely infatuated with baseball stuff and I found a giant bag of baseball cards (and, yes, it was at an estate or rummage sale, I believe, and I think I paid a whole buck) and sneaked them into his briefcase, loose and flapping around. I was hoping they’d come busting out during some public hearing or an important suited-up meeting with elected officials when he had to look wise and pompous, but they didn’t, alas. Next time.
It turned out some of them were valuable. Worth three whole dollars, even, something like that.
Hey, did you see ByeFL at the Beany Baby table? maybe that’s where he went to.
Odd you should say that, losty. I was just this very morning wondering where ByeFl had gotten to. Either finally got himself to Pennsylvania, or else he’s been kidnapped by some cult to use in their sordid rituals, as he was so pure and untainted by worldliness. Maybe both! If he’s lucky.
Maybe he’s participating in the Magic™ cards bubble or the Yugi-Oh™ bubble. Preferably in Oil City, PA.
OK, I have a clue…
I say Ben did it with the Block in the Virtual Room.
No Miss Peacock or Mustard here…
There was some poster over the weekend who posted that “Oil City, PA” was the best place to live in the country.
Different name, but I’ll bet you a mithril piece it’s the same dude.
Oh my GOODNESS. Do you all realize? With all the incessant posting here on the HBB about the PM situation, yet there has been absolutely NO discussion of an appropriate mithril valuation! All this jibba- jabba about gold. ‘Gold this, gold that’, yeah, yeah, whatever. Let’s focus on the true precious metals.
Of course, the mithril situation is entirely different, being as it really is a supply issue, thanks to those stupid dwarves with their pick-axes and then that monster thingie.
Well, we better figure that out, because now I’ve stuck my foot out and am gambling away a mithril piece.
is it 10 gold pieces? 100?
Wait, how big is a gold piece?
Oh, man, I might be in real trouble here. I rescind the bet! rescind!
Sorry, Steve that wasn’t ByeFl. That was just me, being a smartypants.
I don’t post on here too often, but can assure you that I am not ByeFl. Looks like you owe Olympiagal a mithril piece.
I’ll see your Joule and raise you a Gold Celeston, earthlings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Celestial_Space
Ken, you devious bastard…
Oly, i owe you some mithril. Maybe I can work it off during your next Dune production. I’d be a good Piter.
Yo, Daddy-O!!!
Mithril is from LOTR not Dune.
At least, get the facts right.
You got it Steve. I am in Punxsutawney, PA, where it is Groundhog Day everyday. I will say this, that there are plenty of cheap houses for sale in the area. But the economy in sort of North Western/Central PA isn’t any worse than usual. There are plenty of jobs that are available if you want to work, but the work is hard and dirty.
The problem is that most of the good paying jobs are in coal mines or with Natural gas drilling rigs or affiliated businesses.
The College educated kids are fighting for scraps, whereas the kids who are willing to get dirty and work are making 70k a year with a high school degree. Add this to the lack of student loan payments, cheap housing and short commutes they are doing pretty darned well.
But these cycles only last so long, just like the high crop prices. And most people don’t stash any of the good time money away for when the bad time boogey man show his ugly face. And he will. ohhh he will. That is for sure.
Ah, faster, I know, I know, I guess I shouldn’t mix fantasy and scifi references together. I was still intrigued by the Dune performances Oly was talking about over the weekend.
I see card tables and boxes full of Beanies at the local flea market all the time.
Let’s just say they’re no longer a fast-moving product.
“One day not long ago, Hammett pulled up in front of his house to find a woman ripping the aluminum siding off the empty house across the street, which, like hundreds of North Minneapolis properties, was in foreclosure.”
“‘I walk up to her and I said, ‘What the heck do you think you’re doing?’ he recalls. ‘And she gives me a look that’s like, ‘This place is empty. Nobody’s living here. Who cares?’”
If the house is owned by the bank, these looters should get charged with bank robbery. There’s no difference from taking the bank’s aluminum, or grabbing a till from a teller and running out the door.
Yet, even in clear-cut cases when people in a house that was just foreclosed destroy it, nobody every gets charged with anything.
U Loot
I Shoot…
“You loot, we shoot” was a very popular slogan in post-Katrina Mississippi.
I would’ve called the cops right in front of her face. Definietly don’t want looters in the neighborhood. If they believe they get away with it, they can go one step further
‘I just think that people need to hear about this,’ Dan said. ‘If anyone can learn something from it then it’s worth it. The cycle could come around again in another 20 years and maybe some young guy will read this and think twice.’
OK, I can respect that.
From the article, here’s another quote from Dan: “I’m a fairly intelligent person and I made a huge mistake.”
I’ve been to Schaumburg, IL. Nobody “falls in love” with a 900-square-foot townhouse there. Dan was speculating just like everybody else in 2005, when real estate was the surest of all possible sure things. I bet he had this all planned out: flip a nondescript suburban Chicago property, use the proceeds to move to Jackson Hole, sell a few mansions there to CEO and hedge fund types, collect his commissions, and then go snowboarding.
We are a nation of Dans.
snake charmer,
Or fall in love with Schaumburg for that matter?
Yes, as a Chicagoan with little/NO life experience and a rookie realtor to boot I’m sure he’ll fit right in and CEO types will be lined up to hand over the heaps of cash he so richly deserves!
I have no qualms with bored midwesterners wanting ANYTHING but how their parents life turned out. None whatsoever. After all I’m one of them. Now that I’ve been in OR for over 20 years and my children went thru K-12 (and college) here, people are s-t-a-r-t-i-n-g to “warm up” to me! Some actually like me and a few trust me!
This… “Dan” was a total true believer. Hope he enjoys his new job at the lodge.
Schaumburg?!?
What next? Joliet? B*ttfuck Batavia?!?
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Whenever we mapped a new townhouse development in the ‘burbs all I could think was: “what kind of soul pays to be imprisioned?”
There’s some incredibly depressing townhouse developments that went up here and most will wind up mini-slums - small areas of superconcentrated crime.
There’s a brand-new townhome development on the outskirts of my city in the Midwest, just finished last year. Flat and plain architecture in the front, garage underneath out back. It’s built on former farm fields, so there’s a not a tree, hillock, fence, creek, or rock in sight. JUST the rowhouses, and a dug pond.
This developmet is the last one out of a whole group of separate townhouse developments on the same road, within the same 5 miles, all with smiliar names. The Range, the Reserve, the Pines, etc. Worst of all, as you drive farther and farther out, you can see that the rowhouses are more and more slap-up-cheap and flimsy and less ornamented as they were built later and later on in the bubble.
edgewater john,
Especially in the “pop up communities” like Hoffman Estates and Naperville? I’d read that Naperville had to completely “re-tool” and pretend it had a “downtown core”.
As you head west on Roosevelt Road thru Elmhurst, Villa Park, Lombard and Glen Ellen those towns have an actual history. Although the 70’s and franchises almost erased it entirely.
I’m originally from Chicago, as well, and I remember when the HUGE shopping center was built in Schaumburg back in the 70s. Yeah, yeah, that was a hundred years ago. LOL! Well, I was out there (Chicago) visiting family last year and took a little drive through town.
Sadly, some of the neighborhoods (South and Southwest side) that I am familiar with are not in very good shape.
BayQT~
There’s some incredibly depressing townhouse developments that went up here
Yessir, you got that right.
Though I don’t think Incredibly Depressing Developments are endemic only to Chicagoland, not by a long shot.
(Have you seen some of the Gray Soulcrushing Crapola outside Rockford? Shudder.)
We saw horrid stuff from Crown Point, IN to Madison and all points in between. It sounds incredibly arrogant to say this, but if I awoke in one of those developments I run away screaming and never look back. It would be better to be a rolling stone and work on Alaskan fishing trawlers than hold a mortgage on one of those.
Who hasn’t wanted to be a Rolling Stone at some point?
Keith or Mick?
Keith or Mick?
I’m afraid there are going to be a whole lot of Brians.
“There’s some incredibly depressing townhouse developments that went up here and most will wind up mini-slums - small areas of superconcentrated crime.”
We’re renting one such place. Its safe and not too unpleasant now, but this could EASILY turn into foreclosureville. The development was built in 2006 (top of the bubble here), so (after taxes, assessments, etc.) most owners will probably never recover their money.
This is dead on! In fact, no person just starting out would buy a condo/townhouse/condotel/conversion (or anything he wasn’t planning on living in for the next 30 years) unless he had visions of making a quick buck. Anyone why says otherwise is a liar.
Dan, who is in his 20s and grew up in Chicago’s Edison Park community, paid all his bills, always on time, and is proud of it…“‘I was so sure prices were going to go up,’ he said.
Dan, who had worked in downtown Chicago, lost his job. At the same time the adjustable mortgage was threatening to take his monthly payments from $1,475 to $1,720.”
“He moved with his girlfriend, who has since become his wife, to Jackson Hole, Wyo., where he got a job working as, ironically, a real-estate agent.
Irony
Pronunciation: \ˈī-rə-nē also ˈī(-ə)r-nē\
Function: noun
The use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning. An outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
A FB becoming a RE agent is hardly ironic.
At the same time the adjustable mortgage was threatening to take his monthly payments from $1,475 to $1,720.”
This is a lie! The reporter should have caught it.
The adjustable mortgage wasn’t just at this time “threatening” to take his payments up. That “threat” was in the contract Dan read, understood, and signed three years ago!
I fully approve of your word-parsing, there. Words are the tools of thought, and therefore it’s vital to use words correctly, as in ‘Dan is a simpering, mulcted, gum-mounching ninny-hammer’.
Now, as it happens, I don’t know what ‘ninny-hammer’ means. I read it once in an obscure Middle-Englishy-time play and I liked the sound of it. But that’s not my point. My point is that Dan is stupid and unlikeable, and the reporter should have said so.
Olygal,
Here’s one you’re bound to approve of whole-heartedly!
“Manse”
I saw it used to describe a “mansion” in Portland Architecture!
“This sprawling ‘manse’ has koi ponds” etc.
I laughed my b@lls off! Who was it that last used “manse”? Chaucer?
Oh, I do approve of it whole-heartedly.
Portland does have great architecture. I love Portland. LOVE. It was what decided me, that I must move here. I got over the mountains, I beheld, I stopped my car and got out and I announced loudly to everyone in earshot ‘I am going to come live here. Now.’ And from that moment the Universe conspired to bring me here, things fell into place like a tidy puzzle. A simple puzzle, like from the Dollar Store.
But then I ended up in Olympia instead, which is of course the Best Place in the Universe.
Maybe Professor Bear used ‘manse’ sooner than that. I believe it was he who used ‘desuetude’ in a sentence the other day. I was thrilled. Good thing I was sitting down.
But don’t be sad I came here, DinOR. I hate it when people come here, because they are sure to be unworthy oafs, but see, I’m different.
Okay, then.
I thought a manse was a house owned by a church for the minister to live in.
“At the same time the adjustable mortgage was threatening to take the stupid, unlikeable ninny-hammer’s monthly payments from $1,475 to $1,720.”
Y’know, it DOES kinda flow off the tongue, doesn’t it?
Yes. It really does.
It’s like a black fly in your chardonnay
It’s like a death row pardon, two minutes too late
Isn’t it ironic, don’tcha think?
lolol
“He moved with his girlfriend, who has since become his wife, to Jackson Hole, Wyo., where he got a job working as, ironically, a real-estate agent.”
Jackson Hole, Wyoming? Now there’s a low cost of living area for you, to seek refuge when you’re out of work and out of cash.
I’ll bet he doesn’t live in Jackson Hole but commutes from some much cheaper place.
Ah but to sell real estate in Jackson Hole is to be at the edge of the mountain, the cusp of greatness and unspeakable riches… Dan undoubtedly salivates every evening, over his empty dinner plate, in anticipation of the “big score”.
It reminds me of a cartoon. Two spiders spinning a web at the bottom of a slide in a children’s playground. One spider says to the other, “If we pull this off, we’re going to live like kings!”
That was a Far Side cartoon.
He also reminds me of Gil in the Simpsons.
“‘This was a horse that was conceived when the market was going nowhere but up,’ said Jeff Schoenwetter, a manager of Insignia and an investor in both Martin Farms and Tullamore. ‘I have no regrets about how the decision was made. I only regret that we did it.’”
“Tullamore”
It takes a single-malt village?
–
“Good News For Buyers”
Was anyone in RE biz talking about bad news for buyers in 2005 and 2006? At the time, it was good news for both buyers, sellers, bankers, lenders, and especially for RE biz people. Bubble times are fun times all around.
Jas
Most people with grey matter would NOT to knowingly buy a used car that could have been emerged in a flood area.
I hope that the knifecatchers in the upper midwest finally use a little due diligence in snapping up these Seller wet house “deals” this summer and into the future.
Suzanne : “Now is a great time to buy a lake or riverside property with a view of the RAPIDS”
Owner’s Disclosure Comments: “Basement may have an occassional wet spot or small leak but our desperate local bank swears that it will FLOAT”
Well, Suzanne researched this, and she says the car was SUBmerged, unless your car Emerged after being SUBmerged…
Potemkin Staging
“Wells Fargo provided stagecoach rides at the project’s grand opening marketing event. On May 1, the lender took back the project as part of a workout agreement.”
“Wells Fargo Bank has hired a commercial real estate broker to sell about 300 residential lots in two distressed Twin Cities area developments, the latest sign of tough times for area home builders.”
“The Martin Farms property includes 150 vacant developed lots and 108 acres of residential land. The asking price is $10.2 million, according to a news release by the Twin Cities office of CB Richard Ellis, which is marketing the property.”
_________________________________________________________________
So, Orwells Fargo ends up holding the bag on just another $10 Million loser, assuming the position…
“‘This was a horse that was conceived when the market was going nowhere but up,’ said Jeff Schoenwetter, a manager of Insignia and an investor in both Martin Farms and Tullamore. ‘I have no regrets about how the decision was made. I only regret that we did it.’”
“‘I’ve never seen a market decline this abrupt,’ Schoenwetter said. ‘At the time these projects were conceived … they looked like relatively intelligent business decisions.’”
This ‘horse was conceived’…? I’m actually feeling a faint tingling of admiration for this fellow’s verbal, um, style. I believe I’m even going to place the horse conception image within my own verbal toolbox of metaphors, ’cause, jeeze, there’s just so many places you can go with it.
That reminds me of another great phrase I got, this one from a realtor. I was paging through one of those glossy RE-porn pamphlets, hooting and sneering, and I came across this gem: ‘Yard is fully zero-scraped!’
I stared intently at that sentence for a long, brow-furrowed time trying to understand, and then I did. She meant ‘xeriscaped’. Man, did I laugh! Now I won’t use anything but ‘zero-scraped’ when I need to say ‘xeriscaped’. I just pronounce it grandly, with elan. If no one understands, too bad. It’s too good of a word to waste.
“zero-scraped”
Haaaahaaahaaahhhaaaaaaah…. haaahaaa
sometimes LOL just won’t suffice
I thought ‘zero-scraping’ was what developers did to building lots before they construct a McMansion on it.
Actually, the term xeriscape was coined by the Denver Water Board and they actually have it trademarked. So, in order to get around this, a lot of landscapers/writers, etc. use the term zeroscape. However, I would betcha a dollar the average person doesn’t know what either term means, not really, anyway. They just think it means you don’t have to water, as in zero water. Not true, xeriscape is low-water plants, but unless you live in an area with rain, better use native plants if you don’t want to water, and in a drought, even they need water.
But as for zero-scraped - that one must’ve been invented by a developer.
Darn right those native plants need water. So, what do I give mine? Graywater, that’s what.
I’ve put together a graywater harvesting system that consists of three buckets, two siphons, and a tub of plumber’s putty. The plumber’s putty seals leaks in drain plugs. This prevents the water you want to harvest from running down the drain.
Total cost of my graywater harvesting system? Well under 10 bucks.
Yes, I do use that oh-so-ecologically-correct biodegradable soap that the food co-op sells, but what the heck. I want my graywatered plants to live long and prosper. And a gallon of that soap lasts me a couple of years.
Awesome!
Score one for sustainable communities!
Really? This makes me sad. I didn’t know that ‘zero-scrape’ was almost a real word. I thought some darling idjit realtor lass came up with it when she couldn’t manage ‘xeriscape’.
But you know what, I’m holding firm to my new word. I don’t care. It’s ‘zero-scrape’. I’ll fight anyone who disagrees.
‘I’ll fight anyone who disagrees.’
Except for not you, losty. You evidently know a tiresomely large amount of stuff, so you’d win.
Oly, I can’t help it, my brain’s stuffed full of useless stuff…and no, knowledge ain’t power (Sir Francis Bacon, 1597)…see?
“‘The biggest thing I am hearing is that the inventory is almost depleted,’ said Sharon Snyder, president of Prudential Snyder and Co. Realtors in Ann Arbor. ‘My agents are busy and they just wish there was more product on the market. So we’d like to invite sellers to put their house on the market.’”
_______________________________________________________________
When you resorted to reverse-psychology, there isn’t much left in your bag of tricks, is there?
Ann Arbor is more insulated than many places because the primary employer in town is a big university and with virtually no end to money, but to say that inventory is gone is asinine. You can sell, but be prepared to cut the price and you still see for sale signs everywhere.
Speaking as a University of Michigan grad, I know a thing or two about Ann Arbor. Here goes:
1. Ann Arbor thinks it’s special. Oh, so very special. That’s why house prices will never, ever fall there. Just go for a simple shopping expedition and you’ll see what I mean. That’s why my mother insisted that we buy my school supplies back in Pennsylvania.
2. While some University of Michigan jobs pay quite well, others don’t pay well enough for one to afford to live in Ann Arbor. So, hello, Ypsilanti. Howdy, Saline. Heck, I can even recall campus janitors saying that they drove in all the way from Inkster. And that was back during the 1970s.
3. If you don’t land a U-M job, you’re pretty much SOL in the local job market. There isn’t much else there. So, goodbye, great state of Michigan. To this day, I still miss your polite, friendly people and your work ethic.
I lived in Inkster! No, not near where Arsinio Hall lived (he lived south of Michigan Avenue (” ‘cross the tracks”)… Went to elementary school St. Norberts Catholic Parish/School. Father worked at Ford Engineering Center (next to the test track in Dearborn).
Father got smart in ‘74′ after the first oil “crisis” hit and took a job with 3M in St. Paul.
We pulled up stakes and headed West to Minnie-soo-taah. Thought we went to a different planet since we relo’d to a rural area. Nothing like Inkster back in the day…
ahh, memories…
I’ve been reading a lot about how the Fed will be forced to start raising interest rates shortly, to try to control inflation. I wonder if the bozos over at the Fed realize that all that extra money they are pumping into the “economy” is really being used to speculate on commodities?
Maybe the light bulb is finally coming on?
Doubt it. Tech to housing to commodities. I’m sure there’s no connection. Heaven forbid we’d ever consider letting economic fundamentals cool everything off. Better to drive the bubbles. It allows elected officials to keep their jobs, and after all, if [when] the crash comes, their financial situations are guaranteed by the guys with all the guns.
Evanston is a nice place. I’d pay a premium to live there.
Too close to Skokie, which used to be nice, but (from what I hear) has become crime-ridden. Not that crime slowed the developers any, of course.
Skokie’s fine, far from a crime-ridden hellhole. Just a typical middle class suburb.
I see lot of comments about debt forgiveness for FBs. Actually is is very limited in scope. Here is what I found on the net.
Under the new law, you won’t have to pay taxes on up to $2 million of forgiven debt on a primary residence. Any debt wiped out on a second home is still subject to tax.
If the bank forgives the home equity loan you used to make substantial improvements to the house, that won’t be taxed, either, Scharin says. But if that home equity loan was taken out for other reasons, say, to buy a car, then the forgiven debt will be taxed.
Again, this tax break is temporary. It applies to mortgage debt forgiven last year and through 2009.
So FBs living large , buying boats, vacations, cars will NOT get any relief.
Sorry I had to post it here as bits bucket was too big already :()
And there sure as hell isn’t anything unfair about them having to pay the tax effect on it anyway. After all, THEY GOT THE MONEY. If they lost it making a stupid investment, that’s their problem.
“So FBs living large , buying boats, vacations, cars will NOT get any relief.”
Assuming that they don’t lie on their tax return, and claim that the money went for home improvements. What are the chances that the IRS will check?
Which raises a larger point - interest on a HELOC generally isn’t deductible, unless the money was spent on home improvements. How many people with a HELOC **didn’t** deduct the whole interest payment -whether the money went for a new BMW or new siding on the house?
If you really want to have the FBs scream, just audit them all - explain that there is no problem: all they have to do just bring the receipts for the house improvements, plus before and after pictures, showing that the HELOC money went into the house. Otherwise, they pay back taxes plus interest and penalties for the illegally deducted HELOC interest.
HELOC was paved with good intentions…
HELOC was paved with custom pavers…
Also, I’ve always thought that people should have to pay income tax on their stated incomes!
Face it, the IRS isn’t going to collect from these FBs. And they’re not even going to try! We’ll just have to pay more to cover them.
kpom,
Not sure exactly but I think the “honor system” was SO… yesterday! ( Remember, that’s what got us into trouble to begin with! ) Anyway, rather than say… “Did you blow the money on jetski’s?” the IRS will simply say, “Oh, you’re claiming home improvements? Where’s your f@cking receipts?”
Besides, once the comps start rolling in it will become more obvious the house was gutted and equity-skimmed, not improved.
“Dan decided to stop paying his mortgage. It was hard for him.”
Life is hard, Dan; Desplains as the nose on your face!
I give Dan credit for this statement:
‘My condo’s been on market since November and the prices keep dropping,’ he said. ‘They go down by about $5,000 every month.’”
While a $175K for a 900sf townhouse in Schaumburg is outrageous, I have seen far more expensive houses on the market for 3+ years with only one price drop. And those sellers act like a $5K price drop is doing the buyer a favor.
Still a lot of denial here in Chicagoland.
That’s not just true of Chicagoland.
Hey Gulfstream-sitter,
How are you going to feel when we are ALL bucking hay in the heat for our Chinese masters in a few years.
Those that can keep up the pace eat that night. Those too old or weak…well you get the picture.
No arrogant, snotty remarks from you guys about how your technical skills are still gonna be in demand.
Also, you JDs better get used to lifting something heavier than torts & contracts. You’ll be out in the hot sun in your pin-stripped power suits just like the rest of us.
Everybody happy? Everybody sing.
This is the scenario I see coming:
-Uncle Sam/banking industry/corporations stiff all our overseas friends, either by bankruptcy, inflation, or your guess is a s good as mine.
-Our overseas friends confiscate US government and privately held overseas assets, either by outright nationalization, or thru their court systems. So much for moving capital overseas to more “business-friendly” countries.
As for “working for the Chinese”? Maybe……but can they possibly screw up things any worse that the All-American Boy asshats that are running things now.