A Matter Of Dishonesty
Some housing bubble news from Wall Street and Washington. MarketWatch, “Home-builder executives said at an industry conference Thursday that they’re making progress clearing out excess inventory, but warned that a recession and spiking unemployment could stop that advance in its tracks. ‘No one who’s unemployed ever bought a house,’ said Lawrence Angelilli, senior VP of finance at Centex Corp.”
“‘Mortgage foreclosures were never viewed as being competition for new construction,’ said Angelilli. ‘The thing that makes today so much different … is that a lot of foreclosures are coming from nonowner-occupied borrowers who built new homes and were trying to flip them. Now you do have this first-time phenomenon of massive foreclosures that are coming through on new construction.’”
The Pioneer Press. “Earlier today, MoneyGram International announced that Phil Milne, chairman, president and CEO of the St. Louis Park-based money-transfer company, had stepped down, effective immediately. Once a Wall Street darling, MoneyGram fell hard and fast on investments in subprime mortgage related securities. The company first disclosed it would lose money on those investments in the fall of 2007, but the losses continued to mount. As of May, they stood at $1.6 billion.”
“MoneyGram’s stock - which has fallen 96 percent in the past year - was trading down about 9 percent at midday.”
The Associated Press. “Financial services firm Fremont General Corp. said Wednesday night it filed for bankruptcy protection as part of its plan to sell its retail banking assets. Fremont General previously was one of the largest originators of subprime mortgages.”
“In March, regulators gave Fremont General 60 days raise new capital or sell its banking subsidiary because the bank was considered ‘undercapitalized.’ It then agreed to sell the banking operations. Fremont General shares closed at about 7 cents Wednesday, leaving the company with a market capitalization of just over $5 million. A year ago the stock traded north of $12 per share.”
“Mortgage insider Triad Guaranty Inc. said Thursday it will stop booking new business and go into run-off…a situation where an insurer no longer books new business, but instead generates revenue only on existing policies. Shares of Triad plunged 46 percent in morning trading.”
“Insurers have been facing mounting losses since the middle of 2007 as mortgage defaults have skyrocketed, leading to a spike in claims. Triad Guaranty lost $77.5 million during 2007. It plans to stop booking new business July 15. About 100 jobs will be cut as it enters into run-off, the company said.”
From Bloomberg. “HBOS Plc, the U.K.’s biggest mortgage lender, warned house prices will fall as much as 9 percent this year, more than it earlier forecast, forcing more borrowers to default on home loans.”
“The Edinburgh-based company wrote down an additional 200 million pounds ($395 million), including stakes in homebuilders, and said risks related to bond insurers almost tripled to 1.5 billion pounds.”
“The company said bad loans rose 17 percent to 4.95 billion pounds as of May 31 from 4.23 billion at the end of 2007. Late mortgage payments by ’specialist’ customers including landlords and borrowers whose incomes weren’t verified rose to 3.1 percent of total mortgages from 2.6 percent.”
The International Herald Tribune. “More than 100 golf courses have been built in Spain in the past eight years, most accompanied by high-density residential developments targeting foreign buyers. A steep downturn in the Spanish housing market… is sending ripples through all sectors of the economy.”
“During the first part of 2008, the number of home sales in Spain fell by 30 percent, according to government data, and estate agents report that house prices have dropped 10 percent to 20 percent in many tourist areas.”
“By one construction industry estimate, there are more than 650,000 unused new housing units in Spain, including the houses built for the tourist market. In some areas, local officials are working with developers to use empty units in golf course developments as subsidized housing for Spaniards who cannot afford the high price of new homes.”
“Industry experts say there is a glut of golf course villas and many of them are sitting empty, helping to drive down prices throughout the country. ‘Investors are trying to exit their investments and they’re not being able to,’ said Mark Stucklin, who tracks the market.”
From Reuters. “Models that predict payments on bonds issued and protected by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Ginnie Mae have been far off the mark in recent months, resulting in increased risk to investors in the $4.5 trillion ‘agency’ MBS market.”
“Errors are happening for the same reason credit loss forecasters failed to prepare investors for the subprime mortgage meltdown: it has never happened before.”
“May data ‘was a shock to everybody,’ said Arthur Frank, head of MBS research at Deutsche Bank in New York. Vagaries of falling prices and tight credit have ‘wreaked havoc’ on models that were created during the heydey of refinancing, analysts at Merrill Lynch & Co. said in a recent research note.”
“‘An unprecedented housing market will produce unprecedented prepayments and defaults,’ said Dale Westhoff, a managing director at JPMorgan Chase & Co. in New York, who has been refining models for 18 years. ‘We’ve already seen that on the default side. On the prepayment side, the May numbers are starting to reflect this new environment.’”
“More than 400 people have been charged in a nationally coordinated probe of mortgage fraud that involved an estimated $1 billion in losses, the U.S. Justice Department said on Thursday.”
“The department, disclosing a 3 1/2 month ‘Operation Malicious Mortgage,’ said…the U.S. Corporate Fraud Task Force was ‘responding to issues raised by mortgage fraud in the corporate sector.’”
The New York Times. “What were the managers of Bear Stearns‘ hedge funds thinking as the mortgage markets began to go haywire and investors started asking for their money back? Thursday’s indictments against those former managers, Ralph R. Cioffi and Matthew Tannin, offer some fascinating clues”
“In an April 22 e-mail from Mr. Tannin…Mr. Tannin wrote: ‘ the subprime market looks pretty damn ugly… If we believe the [CDOs report is] ANYWHERE CLOSE to accurate I think we should close the funds now. The reason for this is that if [the CDO report] is correct then the entire supbrime market is toast… If AAA bonds are systematically downgraded then there is simply now way for us to make money - ever.’”
The Arizona Republic. “Residents of Cooley Station North awoke Monday to 493 signs of more trouble for their half-empty subdivision. Process servers had blanketed the Trend Homes community in east Gilbert with foreclosure notices, targeting 493 vacant lots owned by a Scottsdale ‘land bank,’ which has fallen behind on its loan payments.”
“‘We’re living in a subdivision that’s half-full,’ said Cooley Station homeowner Krista Anderson. ‘My main concern is what’s going to happen to the subdivision.’”
“Like many other land banks that had contracted with home builders during the real-estate boom, Taro was left with hundreds of vacant parcels. ‘They ended up saddled with all these empty lots that nobody wanted,’ said Mesa real-estate analyst Zach Bowers.”
The Arizona Daily Star. “In his May report, John Strobeck of Bright Future Business Consultants, acknowledged that he didn’t see the residential real-estate bubble developing back in 2005, in part because builders were requiring affidavits of occupancy that suggested the homes they sold would be lived in.”
“‘While it is clear that many people signed the affidavits of occupancy, they did it also at three or four other subdivisions where they bought houses,’ he said. ‘It was strictly a matter of dishonesty.’”
The Daily Herald. “Foreclosures in Illinois spiked again in May to about 42 percent compared to a year ago, according to RealtyTrac. ‘We need to get rid of the inventory of homes on the market, which is about 18 to 22 months, now,’ said Marve Stockert, executive director of Lombard-based Illinois Association of Mortgage Professionals. ‘We should get that down to 12 to 14 months.’”
“He said some of the roadblocks remaining are adjustable-rate mortgages that can see interest rates soar, declining property values and tougher qualifications for those seeking to obtain mortgages.”
“‘Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is like a chicken-and-egg concept,’ said Stockert. ‘Property values are dropping and people here are finding it very difficult to re-finance. Some are buying a second home and say they’ll lease their present home. But as soon as they close on the new one, they let the other go into foreclosure. This way, they already got the mortgage on the new home before their credit was wrecked.’”
The Herald Advocate. “Bill Diehl’s job description is simple. ‘It’s to help people buy and sell homes,’ said Diehl, one of two real-estate agents behind the Repo Home Tour Chicago.”
“‘Certainly nobody feels good about the fact that people have lost their homes,’ Diehl said. ‘But the reality is that for most people they haven’t expressed great concern about it.’”
“Congress should examine preferential loans to two Senate Democrats, including the sponsor of a major housing bill, by mortgage lender Countrywide Financial Corp, a senior Democratic lawmaker said on Thursday.”
“‘My view is that these allegations should be considered by the appropriate bodies, and I understand that the Senate Ethics Committee has already begun to look into the matter,’ Rep. Barney Frank said in a statement.”
“Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut and Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota have acknowledged that they refinanced properties as members of Countrywide’s VIP program.”
“Dodd is chairman of the powerful Senate Banking Committee, and is leading an effort this week to win Senate approval of a $300 billion housing rescue bill to help thousands of Americans facing foreclosure on their home loans.”
“Dodd told reporters earlier this week he did not think he was getting any special deal when told in 2003 that he had been placed in a VIP program while refinancing two home mortgages with Countrywide.”
The Hartford Courant. “A nonpartisan government watchdog group Wednesday listed U.S. Sen. Christopher Dodd as the Senate’s No. 1 recipient of campaign contributions from Countrywide Financial Corp. in the last two decades.”
“Though Dodd was the Senate’s leading recipient of campaign contributions from Countrywide’s political-action committee, the overall career amount of $25,000 is very small when compared with the senator’s leading contributors. For instance, his career contributions from Citigroup Inc. total $439,094.”
“The political research center also said Dodd had received $15,000 from Countrywide for his presidential campaign.”
“Dodd’s spokesman, Bryan DeAngelis, said Wednesday: ‘As the senator said at his press conference yesterday, if the ethics committee requests any information, he will be more than happy to share it.’ But when DeAngelis was asked whether Dodd would be making any of his mortgage paperwork public, he said he had no further comment.”
From Politico.com. “Apparently, the housing crunch is nonpartisan. Washington insiders such as Ted Koppel, Ethel Kennedy and Ken Mehlman have priced to sell in a market that’s taken a noticeable downward swing.”
“‘Prices have come down in general,’ said Diana Hart, VP of the local affiliate of Sotheby’s International Realty. ‘Sellers are realistic, regardless of whether they’re members of Congress or media celebrities.’”
“‘Nightline’ anchor Koppel has dropped the price of his home in Potomac, Md., from $4.1 million to $1.95 million. The sticker price of Koppel’s 9,000-square-foot manse, which went on the market in 2005, was first slashed in August 2007, to $2.3 million.”
“Koppel’s price cut pales in comparison to that of Kennedy, widow of assassinated Sen. Robert F. Kennedy. Her home in McLean, Va., listed for $25 million in 2003, was reduced to $20 million and then to $16.5 million. The 10,524-square-foot estate is now listed by Washington Fine Properties for $12.5 million.”
“But Dewita Soeharjono, a broker in Virginia, says not to feel too bad for homeowning politicos forced to reduce their asking prices. ‘Actually, these guys bought the property way back then,’ said Soeharjono. ‘[So] they actually made multiple times on their investment.’”
“The average sales price of a home in the Washington metro area jumped only 1.5 percent in 2007, from $463,000 in 2006 to $470,000. In 2005, the average sales price increased by 21.8 percent from the previous year.”
“‘Right now, foreclosures and decline in housing prices affects everyone,’ Soeharjono said.”
$4.1M to $1.95M. How’s that phantom equity working out, Koppy-boyo?
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
FPSS, I love that laugh.
Yeah, that is pretty funny.
So the theory that the high end of the market will hold up no matter what becomes of the low end, because the rich are different and did not finance with subprime loans, goes straight down the toilet with a lot of other nonsense theories that have been circulated by economic propagandists over the last couple of years.
Yup, and Aspen and Telluride and a lot of other “weathy” towns are toast. Booyah.
A series of cash flows and an asset are fungible and linked up via the interest rate.
The rich may not need to finance but the asset’s worth still depends on the cash flow (= rental price)
I was looking at the Colorado second home market today. Vail, Avon and Breck (the top ski towns within reasonable driving distance from Denver) seem to be finally be breaking. Breck had over 100 SFH listings for less than a million. Usually 20 or less at a time, and some of these were nice 4000 sq ft homes with views. Still not a worth it, but moving in the right direction.
double booyah!
I have a feeling that even when this puppy does bottom, an off-piste house in Vail will still be beyond my budget.
I like Breckenridge better anyways because it has more of a town atmosphere as opposed to a cluster of development right off the highway, and its about 40% less. Still too high for my budget right now as well.
Well, if you like Myra so much, I’m sure NYCityboy could introduce you to a few trannies in the Village.
“So the theory that the high end of the market will hold up no matter what becomes of the low end, because the rich are different and did not finance with subprime loans, goes straight down the toilet with a lot of other nonsense theories that have been circulated by economic propagandists over the last couple of years.”
The Marin Independent Journal spouted that exact same nonsense today, as the reason our market won’t tank.
I surmise Mehlman and his boy lover parted ways and has to dump his shack. Boo hoo.
‘No one who’s unemployed ever bought a house,’ said Lawrence Angelilli, senior VP of finance at Centex Corp.”
That made me smile:
I told my tale to a few bloggers at Ben’s SD gathering:
3 days after I signed my escrow papers just before “Thanksgiving” 1981…I got “laid off”…
My Dad, who picked me up that day said: “Well son, you had a job before this one.”
Dad, I sure miss you.
hwy50,
As do I. It HAPPENS. For all our, and the underwriter’s best efforts none of us can predict the future. All we can do is act on the best information we have at the time. The difference is you made no effort to decieve. When winos without a penny to their name are “buying” houses ( as noted below ) that’s an entirely different story.
I actually QUIT a job 4 months after signing a 130k mortgage at a time when a $900 PITI was pretty big. What should I have done? Called the mortgage company the next day and say they won’t be seeing any payments from me and to start the default process?
An unemployed, homeless man in Florida bought 5 houses.
Don’t tell me Centex has never heard of NINJA loans…
‘No one who’s unemployed ever bought a house,’ said Lawrence Angelilli, senior VP of finance at Centex Corp.”
Speaking of “A Matter Of Dishonesty” this comment ranks right up there. This bubble was all about people getting huge loans without having jobs.
Well, unless you count ripping other Americans off as a “job”.
Our news media is completely worthless. Thank god for people like Ben and his blog, which make an honest attempt at the truth, and facts.
‘No one who’s unemployed ever bought a house,’ said Lawrence Angelilli, senior VP of finance at Centex Corp.”
during this bubble I read dead people bought homes
I thought most flippers were unemployed once you set aside that stupid flipping nonsense.
“No one who’s unemployed ever bought a house”
Hey Lawence, Can you say NINJA loan?
We don’t call them unemployed around here.
We call them Realtors ™
Got Popcorn?
Neil
during this bubble I read dead people bought homes
Yep, they were just dying to get the property!
Remember the homeless gal in Tampa who “bought” 7 or 8 houses?
There was a dead homeless guy in Florida somewhere with 5 houses.
Short of a dead animal owning a buncha houses, that was pretty much rock bottom.
Didn’t someone’s DOG? LOL
Centex has nothing to worry about considering they can buy Kay Aunt Mildred Bailey Hutchinsons senate vote.
“Operation Malicious Mortgage”
Woo-who! About time. I know it smacks of “dog and pony show” but long time bubble bloggers should at least be pleased that ’something’ is moving forward? I know “I” get some sense of vindication just knowing this is finally being seen for what it is… Criminal Activity!
We shall call them, The 400
( may they be the first of many )
Finally some arrests ,DinOR . How can the powers really address the housing crash if they don’t address the massive amounts of different types of crime that was mixed into it ? Thank you Justice Department ,keep the investigations going .
Someone didn’t give the FBI the memo. They’re arresting people before Congress has the chance to bail them out.
If they lock up everyone who lied about their income or an appraisal or the terms of a mortgage, I don’t think the recession will cause an unemployment problem.
Still be a taxpayer ‘bailout’ though, cos we’d have to support them in prison…………(darn, I’m on a roll today!)
On paper, MoneyGram should have been in high clover, as they catered to the financial low enders, much like a payday loan place or the like…
I suspect that nearly every corporation of size in our country invested in subprimes, knowingly or not.
________________________________________________________________
“Earlier today, MoneyGram International announced that Phil Milne, chairman, president and CEO of the St. Louis Park-based money-transfer company, had stepped down, effective immediately. Once a Wall Street darling, MoneyGram fell hard and fast on investments in subprime mortgage related securities. The company first disclosed it would lose money on those investments in the fall of 2007, but the losses continued to mount. As of May, they stood at $1.6 billion.”
Okay, so John Strobeck didn’t see Tucson’s residential real-estate bubble developing back in 2005. But I saw it a lot earlier than that.
It was back in 2002, March to be exact, when I hopped on one of my humble little bicycles and pedaled across town to an Arizona Small Business Association meeting. The featured speaker was University of Arizona economist Marshall Vest, and he was going to be sharing his thoughts on our state’s economy.
No way was I going to miss that one.
Vest started out by recalling a certain day during the previous year, when he had the misfortune to be staying in a hotel at the World Trade Center. I don’t have to rehash what happened next, but let’s just say that, six months later, Dr. Vest was still quite shaken.
Then he moved into the economics part of his talk, and what struck me was a graph he drew on the board. It showed house prices shooting up to the moon. Below that line, he drew another with a much gentler slope. That was our state’s job growth.
He drew a circle between the two lines, and said, “There’s the bubble.”
Yeah mister ‘Bright Future’ was so busy raking it in by telling people what they wanted to hear, he missed the biggest asset bubble in history. Maybe he didn’t read the THOUSANDS of articles clearly spelling out the speculative madness going on all around him. Sign me up for that newsletter.
excellent story…
BTW, I guess you don’t have the same money that Arizona Slim has or do you just like riding your bike to business meetings?
Maybe you’re just the millionaire next door……
I ride my bike to business meetings, community events, charitable work, the gym, the store, the post office, you name it. Heck, I’ve even bicycled to funerals.
Speaking of which, a very dear friend of mine died earlier this year. You talk about the Millionaire Next Door, he was it. He also was one of the most frugal-living people I’ve ever met. The memorial mass was at the Newman Center on the University of Arizona campus, and his bicycle was parked in the back of the church. (Mine was outside.)
Another clue as to why it is Arizona Slim, rather than Arizona Bubble-Butt (in addition to slim parental genes as I recall).
hum. I can understand a line of income growth vs house prices, or a line of job growth vs housing starts. Very possible to put a nice bubble circle on either of those. Not sure about his, but he’s a Dr. and I’m not.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-06-19-mortgage-fraud-arrests_N.htm
mmmmm.
The foreclosure rescue is showing promising signs of becoming a wedge issue. With questionable voter approval and overwhelmingly Democratic support, it is hard to see what Republicans stand to lose by delaying its passage, at least until the FOA questions are cleared up.
White House threatens housing veto
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS – 47 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House said President Bush would veto a foreclosure rescue the Senate began debating Thursday, as GOP conservatives sought to block the measure amid a scandal over cut-rate mortgages for senators.
Administration officials said they oppose $4 billion in the measure to help states buy and rehabilitate foreclosed properties and a plan to have government-sponsored mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pay for the rescue.
They announced their objections as two GOP senators said they would try to block the package until a committee can investigate how much Countrywide Financial Corp. and other lenders stand to gain from it.
…
“There have been very serious concerns raised about actions taken by Countrywide and we need to know what they stand to gain from this bill,” Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., said in a statement.
The move by DeMint and Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., if successful, would send the housing package back to Dodd’s panel, essentially killing it.
You guys will appreciate GWB a lot more in hindsight.
I am beginning to appreciate him more already today!
I am thrilled by this. Finally!
Not f*cking likely.
Tee hee, TxChick. Good one…
Oh.
You were serious. I forgot, nothing he has done so far has really affected you, has it. You’re still day-trading your way to financial bliss, all the while providing vital support to our economy and your fellow man-kind.
Congratulations.
still drinking the haterade, eh
there’s always Massachusetts if you want to give your money away
I didn’t say I was for a foreclosure bailout.
My point is that GWB will go down as the worst president ever in terms of intelligence, integity, morality, and incompetence.
And I really don’t hate you. You’re smart enough to take advantage of this whacky capitalist system we’ve constructed.
I, on the other hand, am not. I’m just jealous.
“…My point is that GWB will go down as the worst president ever in terms of intelligence, integity, morality, and incompetence.”
Is that your “short list”?
Cheney-Shrub = At least Nixon resigned!
“morality”
I could not care less about anyones opinion of any President,that’s all it is an opinion. However without a shadow of a doubt the top award for the President with the lowest moral compass goes hands down to Bill Clinton!
so far
last I heard, he wasnt’ running around with dudes who planted bombs in public buildings
even if they are now just fuzzy wuzzy little teddy bears
How many people did he kill in search of cheap oil? How many did he leave abandoned after a Hurricane?? How many fell into poverty on his watch?? How many were tortured under his orders??
I think GW has little in the way of morality.
“How many did he leave abandoned after a Hurricane?? ”
You are one big idiot. Since when is it the job of the President to personally take care of idiots who build in areas exposed to recurring natural disasters. Oh I see, it’s different if you got flooded out in NO you riot, steal, blame the government and get public donations poring in, but if you live in the midwest and get flooded out you act civilly, regroup and rebuild.
“last I heard, he wasnt’ running around with dudes who planted bombs in public buildings”
Well, that depends. Daddy Bush invests side by side with the bin Laden family at Carlyle, and all the bin Laden family got an express jet out of the country, before the rubble at WTC had stopped smoking or a single dead body had been recovered. And yeah, I don’t like Clinton either, but that’s because he signed NAFTA and then little Phil Gramm’s overturn of the Glass Steagall act, under Bob Rubin’s direction.
One lied about a blowjob and a dress with a stain, the other lied about a war and there are 4000 plus dead Americans and thousands more maimed and mutilated.
last I heard, he wasnt’ running around with dudes who planted bombs in public buildings
No, last I heard, The Smirking Ass Who Would Be King was only complicit in international war crimes, trampling our civil rights, eviscerating the Constitution, sending our children abroad to die for the fat, leering overlords of Halliburton because a bunch of weaselly NeoCons thought it would be good fun, ignoring the plight of the citizenry after natural disasters, and running our economy straight into the crapper.
Sweet Baby Jesus, I really do have a new appreciation for that ass clown. You’ve gotta be some kind of Once-In-A-Lifetime Major League Disaster Savant to f#ck up that badly in so many different ways!
(Hey, he did give up golf for the troops. And he can ride a mountain bike pretty well. And he does hold the all-time record for most vacation taken by a sitting president. There’s three amazing accomplishments right there.)
and have you noticed the lack of MSM handwringing over the plight of the flooded in Iowa vs. New Orleans?
wait until the flooding gets there (end of the Mississippi River). THEN you’ll see Anderson Cooper, et al shrieking for FEMA, handouts, etc.!
Yes we can@!
Ron, have you heard any stories about people in Iowa shooting guns at helicopters overhead? Looting and ripping up everything they can find? Etc.?
Of course not.
Ron, have you heard any stories about people in Iowa shooting guns at helicopters overhead? Looting and ripping up everything they can find? Etc.?
Didn’t that line of questioning come from The Fat Junkie, Limbaugh?
hahahah. you’re busted!
HEY Stop hatin on Mistah Boosch..
MISTAH BOOSCH IS THE GREATEST PRESIDENT IN CREATING UNDERGROUND JOBS THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER SEEN
We must give him credit when its DUE!
RE:I forgot, nothing he has done so far has really affected you,
Yes, and Pelosi and Co., have done what for you?
I’m not defending any Congressmen - we should vote every single sum-bitch out of office and start over. We then should implement term limits and outlaw lobbyists and special interest groups.
This would begin the enema phase of my master plan…
” We then should implement term limits and outlaw lobbyists and special interest groups.”
How about moving all of them back to their districts and teleconference on most of their minor dealings and only meet in Washington formally 10 days out of each quarter year. That means lobbyists would have to spend more time and effort trying to reach each Congressman and compete with pressure from local constituents.
Just think, if there was no big oil lobby and no environmental lobby we’d be on our way to a meaningful energy policy.
How many did he leave abandoned after a Hurricane?? How many fell into poverty on his watch??
The sad part is that so many bed wetters think it’s the Gubmints responsibility to bailout everything. Having been through a Major Hurricane… Hugo, on Sullivans Island S.C. in 1989 I can tell you we pulled our selves together and started cleaning up( lost everything by the way). There were many people that gave up and waited for help. The FED was a waste of time. People help people, period!!!! Screw the folks in New Orleans that did nothing to help themselves. Grow the F up, stop being quitters and whiners, and expecting someone else to do it for you. Or better yet get out there and ‘help’ those in need, instead of sitting on your fat ass throwing out cheap dumb comments… Or go smoke another bowl.
I was a youngster at the time, but I can imagine that many people had a renewed appreciation for Ford and even Nixon after the first year of the Carter term.
Around January 2010 when Obama is giving his first State of the Union speech, when unemployment hits 9%, gas is $6.25 a gallon, and 30 year mortgage rates are over 12% people will go through the same “oh God what have we done” realization.
I can imagine that many people had a renewed appreciation for Ford and even Nixon after the first year of the Carter term.
Not anyone that I knew. And I learned not to speak the word “nixon” in front of anyone who had spent quality time in Vietnam. I saw somebody seriously fly off the handle about it.
“I was a youngster at the time”
People despised Nixon,even republicans were outraged by his contempt for the constitution. Though that seems quaint now.
Nixon was elected on his “secret plan”to end the war…after RFK was assassinated…and he instead upped the ante and invaded Cambodia as well, another catastrophic move.
You may have been young then, but you can see the names of 50k dead in DC.
Excuse me? Nixon ENDED the Vietnam war. The godlike John Kennedy and his idiot sidekick Lyndon Johnson turned a little bitty war into a mega slaughterhouse.
People despised Nixon,even republicans were outraged by his contempt for the constitution. Though that seems quaint now.
It does seem awfully quaint now, doesn’t it?
Or tragic.
I’m not sure which.
Incredulous, what is truly incredible is accusing JFK of escalating the Vietnam War. He was just a little bit dead at the time.
“Nixon ENDED the Vietnam war. ”
Now that is pretty funny. The NVA overran the south, the South Vietnamese forces, with the exception of one battalion, collapsed, Pol Pot and friends captured Phnom Penh, and the US forces did a cut and run unprecedented in US history.
Google the fall of Saigon to see the chopper action off the roof of the old embassy, while a few embattled Marines tried to hold and cover.
We got our asses kicked.
JFK may or may not have escalated, but he was certainly the one who got us involved. LBJ escalated the war in Vietnam.
How many revisionist histories are out there? Nixon did end the war, after strategic skirmishes. It was the centerpiece of his campaign. Kennedy and Johnson had grossly escalated it.
Here an interesting site that describes the history (not the fantasy), albeit with a spin.
http://vietnamwar.com/index.htm
“In the 1968 campaign, candidate Nixon asserted in virtually every speech that the goal of his administration would be to ‘end the war and win the peace in Vietnam.’ One of the enduring myths of the 1968 presidential campaign is that the Republican nominee claimed to have a ’secret plan’ to end the war. He never made such a claim.
http://vietnamwar.com/presidentnixonsrole.htm
Nixon did end the war, after strategic skirmishes.
The war ended with the fall of Saigon in 75. Nixon was not even president at the time.
Take the revisionist crap elsewhere. Too many people died.
Hell, we’re liable to have 9% unemployment and $6 gas before George’s term is up…
nah, they’ll still be singing “yes, we can” and watching The View . . .
tx, Im eating.
No they didn’t!
Around January 2010 when Obama is giving his first State of the Union speech, when unemployment hits 9%, gas is $6.25 a gallon, and 30 year mortgage rates are over 12% people will go through the same “oh God what have we done” realization.
And if McCain is elected, gas will drop to $1.29/gallon, unemployment will drop to 3.5%, and mortgage rates will stay at 5.5%. Right?
RIGHT?
Now I never said McCain would do much better, but at least his followers (or should I say the people who will reluctantly vote for him because they can objectively look at Cuba, North Korea, and the failed USSR to see that the policies advocated by the most liberal member of the US Senate will NOT work), don’t have a glossy-eyed, manic smile plastered across their faces while chanting “All you have to do is BELIEVE, All you have to do is BELIEVE”.
The oil that we use - 20 million barrels a day (and falling) has to come from somewhere. McCain realizes this means the dirty work of drilling, pumping, refining, etc. Either we do it or China does it 60 miles off the Florida coast, and takes the oil with them.
The electricity that we use - something like 50 quadrillion kilowatt hours a year has to come from somewhere - McCain realistically proposes modern nuclear plants to meet this demand.
Where does Obama propose we get our energy? From the magical land of unicorns? I know, I know - he proposes that we tax the oil companies so much that they’ll just give us the oil for free, oh and then the CEO of Exxon will personally come over to every American’s house to clean their kitchen or wash their dog too.
I think Obama is going to win, just like I think Michael Moore is going to eat another 20 piece Chicken McNuggets for breakfast tomorrow. In the end, both this country and MM will regret their stupid decision as they lay flatlined on the operating table begging for a chance to do things over.
Right on AZ-owner and funny to .
What world do you live in, az_owner? We are headed for a depression, and it is happening on your beloved GOP’s watch. Try reading something written by someone other than Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh.
“Around January 2010 when Obama is giving his first State of the Union speech, when unemployment hits 9%, gas is $6.25 a gallon, and 30 year mortgage rates are over 12% people will go through the same “oh God what have we done” realization.”???????????????????????
And who will be responsible for 9% unemploymen and gas at 6.25 a gallon. The borrow and spend GOP. They have driven up the debt and now it must be repaid. Foreigners don’t want our dollars because they fall in value. No one will want to loan the US money unless they get a high interest rate for it.
We have no energy policy that would reduce consumption. Take a look at China today, they raise the gas tax and world oil prices fall. What if our gov got Europe and Asia to all lift the gas tax. Oil prices would collapse thus off setting the tax, but what do you expect from a government by big oil, for big oil, and of big oil.
If we had started investing in energy efficiency and renewable energy back then when Carter wanted us to, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in today.
Dani, OPEC increased production and dropped the price of oil to $10/bl thereby, eliminating any incentive for conservation or alternatives.
and if we had taxed it up to 5 bucks a gallon and handed all the money back to tax payers with income payroll and corporate tax cuts we’d be sitting pretty and Saudi Arabia would be a sand pit.
people will go through the same “oh God what have we done” realization.
What? WHAT? We are not in this situation not because of Obama, but because of the last 7 years of greed, corruption, and war without sacrifice. It is absolutely infantile and reprehensible that people are already licking their lips waiting to hang this dead albatross jimmy carter moment around Obama’s neck. I actually hope he loses, so that credit goes where credit is due — the corrupt and morally bankrupt policies of your fuhrer, GWB, and his neocon stormtroopers. I’m just so disgusted by your comments. You and your ilk (read:TxChick) are navel gazing narcissists who add nada to this country — for you the country exists only to profit from. No sense of citizenship. No sense of a greater good. Hey Tx? I don’t even know what the view is, but I’d rather watch an endless loop of pigs being slaughtered than have 8 more years of fear mongering, smirky children running the country.
Hallelujah!
Empire: I’d be happy to sit down and compare my charitable giving over the past 8 years to yours or anyone else’s on here.
Well, what a calm, rational response that was. Thanks.
The Democrats have been in control of Congress since January 2007, and gas prices have gone up 80% under their watch.
When Obama enacts Jimmy-Carter like tax and energy policies, as he has promised, Jimmy-Carter like conditions will result.
The last time the Democrats controlled both the Presidency and Congress besides a brief stint in the early 1990’s was during the Carter years. Those that do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.
It will be funny to watch the Obamites anguish as their messiah is revealed to be nothing but another peanut farmer. You already seem to be halfway off your rocker. Move away from the keyboard and get some fresh air!
Ya know It’s funny Empire, your opinions and attacks on Txchick disgust me too. I can feel the heat of your venom and visualize the spittle on your moniter. Relax bud, your painfree after November. Oh, BTW I hope you’re right.
Don’t forget the implications of “cap and trade” and all the other economic nonsense aimed by all major political players against the imaginary bogeyman of “climate change”.
One question: How can the “poor folk” be protected against enormous proportional costs of their energy usage, without subsidising their energy usage?
Interesting times…..
Empire: I’d be happy to sit down and compare my charitable giving over the past 8 years to yours or anyone else’s on here.
Wow, your sense of noblesse oblige is truly inspiring.
So is your point if we didn’t pay taxes then our pure inner nature would be set free and we could right the wrongs of the country through voluntary charitable contributions?
maybe. not a bad idea
I suppose Obama should fix the mess we’re in within a 12 month span or he’s just as much a failure as GWB?
I guess the preceding 8 years were hardly worth mentioning…
“You guys will appreciate GWB a lot more in…” foresight
I hope he does veto it…Shrub to McSame: “I’ll help you get re-elected pilgrim, I’ll veto this… I’ll veto that…I’ll help ya…yeah babeee, and Cheney here has a war itch between his leg and right ball…we’ll help ya, come Nov… you’ll win by a landslide! :-0
You guys will appreciate GWB a lot more in hindsight.
Well, it would certainly be difficult to appreciate him less.
“Well, it would certainly be difficult to appreciate him less”
You, me and most American citizens
ROTFLMAO
There’s a clear bubble in Bush-hatred.
The man’s a mediocrity, but there’s an awful lot of daylight between that reality and the demon-figure fantasy the Bush-haters have constructed. When history takes an objective look at the facts, Bush’s more apoplectic critics are going to look more than a little hysterical.
Case in point: By any objective measure, GWB’s conduct of the war on terrorism has impacted civil liberties far less than did the administrations of Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Harry Truman, and (at least arguably) LBJ and Nixon. Yet he’s being portrayed as something like the second coming of Gaius Caligula, arrogating unprecedented power to the executive. Major rhetoric vs. reality gap there.
Yet he’s being portrayed as something like the second coming of Gaius Caligula
Well, to his credit: GW only declared victory while at sea, not victory over the God of the Sea. Funny thing: Caligula still hasn’t lived it down after 2000 years, as you can see on wikipedia.
“…The man’s a mediocrity”
It’s not about hatred…it’s about dissent, but then I’ve actually been to a “Young Republicans” brainwashing convention…so I can see how people could mis-interpret a comment about Shrub and the “story” about why Cheney told the “honest truth” about starting the “Shock & Awe” military campaign. Clinton wasn’t truthful (he should have resigned)…neither was Cheney-Shrub (”They” should be Impeached)…one was about a blow j@b…one was about blowing up a country, which do you think caused more damage?
Name one past president in American history who made this proclamation: “I’m the Decider!”
Have to chime in on this one, despite knowing better.
I will admit right here and now I voted for this man twice after voting for Clinton once. I am very free thinking.
Without a doubt these latest two bums are the worst presidents we have had since Hoover. No sense going back to Polk and those guys. We have no frame of reference within our lifetimes. We can argue Lincoln’s merits on slavery and the war all we want, but again we weren’t there.
Clinton didn’t have a personal moral compass and Bush takes us to war. Nice, as long as our (REALLY MY) way of life isn’t negotiable!
What we need are more of men like Arizona Slim’s buddy. Think of others first. Ride that bike. Take mass transport. WALK! Stop using every last drop of oil. Stop the conspicous consumption. Man, if only more presidents were like that.
When history takes an objective look at the facts, Bush’s more apoplectic critics are going to look more than a little hysterical.
On the contrary, once the facts are marshaled, the historical record is pieced together, and events are viewed through a macro-lens, we’ll see that the corruption, malfeasance and incompetence of this particular administration is without parallel in American history.
Believe me, we’ve produced many other candidates for Biggest Executive Office Jackass, but one will stand head and shoulders above the rest.
ET - well said, and absolutely true.
Good one, JP.
“You guys will appreciate GWB a lot more in hindsight.”
Nah, I’m Irish. I’m pretty good at remembering why someone pissed me off.
And I give members of both parties equal opportunity to disgust me. Someone else doing something more disgusting doesn’t excuse the first one’s sin.
GWB and his neo-con cabal have been unmitigated disasters for this country. With Ron Paul bowing out - and having too much integrity and devotion to a Constitutional Republic - we now, once again, have to hold our nose and choose between worse and abysmal.
“The move by DeMint and Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., if successful, would send the housing package back to Dodd’s panel, essentially killing it.”
Indite Senator Dodd too for crimes against the republic. Nobody should be responsible for their neighbor’s financial irresponsibility. Where’s that Joshua Tree?
“There have been very serious concerns raised about actions taken by Countrywide and we need to know what they stand to gain from this bill,” Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., said in a statement.
Myself and many others that I know of have been burning up the phone lines and e-mails to Jim DeMint and others about this B.S. It’s past time for this wimpy GOP group to grow a pair and call a spade a spade.
The whole damn D.C. gang stinks to high heaven, and I hope they keep calling each other out.
I think I see a couple of tiny grapes emerging . . .
When you read the definition of BDS ( Bush Derangement Syndrome ) it puts a lot of these things into a better perspective. We can’t find Osama, for the longest time we couldn’t find Saddam, we felt threatened by the devastation of 9/11 and there’s not a DAMN PERSON we can blame!?
Oh, wait. There is!
Bush-hating has excelled way past a cottage industry and now contributes to GDP. Look, I’m the LAST guy to rush to ANY politician’s defense but the tact and position of the BDS sufferer’s hasn’t provided anything but a distraction from their own agenda. By 2002 Oregon was awash in “Let’s not elect Bush this time either” bumber stickers. C’mon.
precisely. My husband watches Bill Moyers every Friday night; I’ve gotten to where I can’t even be in the same room. I have never heard one positive word said about the man.
I don’t love the guy or even think he’s been that good of a president but this crazy ass stuff blaming him for everything but the heartbreak of psoriasis is just galling to anyone with any common sense. Typical though of today’s society - it’s never your own fault, someone screwed you, you’re a unique snowflake, it’s not your fault, etc.
“I don’t love the guy or even think he’s been that good of a president but this crazy ass stuff blaming him for everything…”
You had me at: “I’m the Decider”
Global warming on Jupiter and Mars?
Chimpy McBu$hitlerburton’s fault!!!
Just like everything was Reagan’s fault back in the day.. Or as Bloom County said: Reagandiddit!!!
Frankly, I’d rather have a Zaphod Beeblebrox type whose rank incompetence limits the damage he can do than some exceptionally clever intellectual whose potential for screwing things up is nigh limitless..
The question is, will folks who think that the federal government can be trusted to fix all their woes actually learn the right lessons from this?
Frankly, I’d rather have a Zaphod Beeblebrox type whose rank incompetence limits the damage he can do than some exceptionally clever intellectual whose potential for screwing things up is nigh limitless..
Wow! I’ve never known George Bush to be compared to Zaphod Beeblebrox before. Doesn’t George need a spaceship for the analogy to really work?
The people decrying a Federal bailout of the housing industry are crying wolf: the bailout has already occurred, and will continue to occur, forever, until the voters and the media start calling for the end of the Federal Reserve and central banking in general.
We have had a bailout of banks since 1913: it’s called the discount window, and it’s called fractional reserve banking.
When you remove both items from the picture, banks return to a free market atmosphere of lending: find depositors, offer the a competitive (i.e., high) interest rate for their locked-in deposits (time deposits), and then charge a competitive interest rate (i.e. higher than now) to borrowers who qualify for the money. It’s not the bank’s money, and it’s not the taxpayer’s money, so the bank has to be choosy when it plays with other people’s money.
The FDIC makes this even worse, since the banks have not just today’s taxpayer’s dollars to play with, they also have tomorrow’s taxpayer’s dollars to play with. It’s not their money, it’s not a private depositor’s money, it’s the taxpayer’s money. The bank can borrow $100, put $10 in reserves, and loan out $90+$81+$73+ $65+$58+$52+ $46+$41+$37+ $33+$29+$26+ $23+$20+ $18+$16+$14+ $12+$10+9 etc etc (about $790). So with $10 in reserves, the bank can make interest profits on almost $800 of funny money. That funny money continues to exist, even in default, because it was paid to someone. That funny money causes your oil, food and housing prices to go up. That funny money destroys your savings, investments, and long term finances.
We have to step forward as a nation and demand that Bernanke step down, along with the rest of the cartel, and move to a fixed-money standard. I don’t care if you use gold or silver, dirt or oil, plastic toys or pig ears as a backing to money. Use nothing but fiat, if you want, but stop increasing or decreasing the money supply. 100% reserve ratios should be standard, and any bank who goes below it should be liquidated to the highest bidder. That’s it. Stop printing new money (except to replace old money that is shredded on public television). Stop allowing banks to loan out more than they have on the books. If you want a bank to loan you a 30 year fixed rate loan, the bank better find some idiot who will invest in a 30 year locked deposit (which of course can be sold to someone else if the original depositor wants out).
How the f##k do you think a bank makes a 30 year fixed rate loan when their longest investment deposit is 12-24 months? They can’t. Once they have to pay back the original depositor, they still have to find someone to deposit money at an interest rate LOWER than the fixed rate. It can’t exist forever.
Suckers, you voters are, who cry for McCain or Obama. Rid yourselves of anyone involved with the Fed, the banking cartels, or any central bank ideology. It failed. You’re failing because of it.
‘The people decrying a Federal bailout of the housing industry are crying wolf’
There isn’t any bail out because there can’t be. Look at all these lenders taking billion $ write downs, stock going to pennies, bankruptcy. CEOs axed, fund guys going to prison. House prices cut in half, California lots selling for 20 cents on the dollar. Rant about the Fed if you want, but don’t ask me to see what isn’t there.
Ben, you mean the parachutes aren’t there? Those guys have just jumped out at 12,000 feet and you say the parachutes are missing? Ben, Ben, are you still there?
There isn’t any bail out because there can’t be. Look at all these lenders taking billion $ write downs, stock going to pennies, bankruptcy. CEOs axed, fund guys going to prison. House prices cut in half, California lots selling for 20 cents on the dollar. Rant about the Fed if you want, but don’t ask me to see what isn’t there.
I appreciate that opinion, but consider what those things are that you just listed…
1. Lenders taking billions of dollars of write downs. These are book values, and in a more open market the investors of these issues would be the ones hurting, not the banks. The problem we have is that many people who are small investors don’t know it. They have up to $100,000 in an FDIC account (or many at various banks), and that money was used to back up fraudulent loans at up to 900% the deposit’s value. With the FDIC backing up those deposits, the banks receive a de facto bailout.
2. Stocking going to pennies. Sure, many of the bank’s elites have options or actual shares, but I’m sure some of those same elites have hedges against stock price plummets. I am currently doing some research to see if I can unearth actual proof of these hedges. The share prices mean nothing to me because many of us know that the banks won’t actually fail (they should be failures already based on their actual reserve ratios), so I’m sure that share price manipulation downward is just another way to transfer wealth. Where will the share prices be in 5 years?
3. CEOs axed, fund guys going to prison. The perp walk is limited in nature, and just having a few people out of literally thousands of perps going to jail is another form of a bailout. Make an example of the few so the many can get away free. CEOs getting axed is no big deal as they’ve already received their compensation, and historically losing one’s job for failing has brought with it future jobs of greater power, be it politically or market-based. Losing one’s job means little if you’ve already received unjust compensation, or have a future appointment to work for the Fed or Treasury or countless other pseudo-government organizations.
4. Housing prices cut in half. Of course this is a good thing, but is it really hurting the banks that much? How many of their depreciated assets are on their books? Sure, they may have sliced and diced their loans and sold them off to investors via their “SEC-regulated” investment banc, but in the end, the bank itself may have lost little as the actual investors (individuals, pension funds, mutual funds, etc) are taking the true losses. The banks are still able to make loans, but now they have to keep most of them on their books. As the values drop, the banks will still have access to super-insane liquidity due to the low reserve ratio allowed by the Fed. It’s still a bail out in my mind, because the banks can offer a “competitive” interest rate (lower than the rate of monetary inflation, of course) and get depositors to put their money in time deposit accounts. The liquidity created during the housing boom has surely not disappeared: there are trillions of dollars of digital currency in existence created since 1971. Those trillions are looking for a home. Those homes exist currently in oil, food and other commodity “investments”, but in the long run the banks still have access to artificially high liquidity since they can use the money multiplier effect to make a profit on their high leverage that is continued to be allowed by the Fed.
I see no bank failures of note. I see banks continuing to take advantage of tomorrow’s taxpayer (and some inept foreigners). This will continue ad infinitum until the citizens (and aliens) say no to the Fed.
What about Bear Stearns? Poof! Lots of smaller lenders gone. Dozens of builders gone. The NYT has an article today on the hit regional banks are taking.
The thing about you bail-out guys is you desperately WANT this to be true; there isn’t any sense in showing you what’s happening.
Bailout BS makes great political points for those polished, upstanding fiscally conservative(barf) politicians who also love to manufacture hobgoblins and boogeymen to continued to get you to vote against your own economic interests.
Dude, s-l-o-w-l-y remove the tin foil hat, hit the Prozac and do a little more research.
Just imagine a world without the modern banking/lending system . . .
Not to be the fence sitter, Ben, but both of you are technically correct.
First, there hasn’t been any homedebtor bailouts. HOWEVER, the FED has injected what, at least, $200 billion. Without that many of us here would have shorted the market nad made billions since the DOW would be below 8000 right now.
What really ticks me off is some knucklehead on CNBC last week said that the market was solid because it should be below 10K and I wanted to throw a brick at him. It would be if BB and the boys didn’t inject this nonsense into the system. In fact, it might you might be broke right now.
About the FED, I couldn’t agree more. This monster needs to be destroyed. JFK tried, but look what that got him. Conspiracies be damned. Follow the money. Who had the most to lose with him around? The Cubans. Oswald. The mob. Not a chance. It was that evil cartel known as the FED.
Remember it was Rothschild who said he didn’t care about laws as long as he controlled the money.
Mr. D/Ben,
Right. Besides I’ve basically weaned my family off the banking system a long time ago. I guess it’s easy for me, I work for a small, conservative mid-west broker-dealer and the only thing I use the bank for is to pay my bills for me. Other than that…
It’s not that difficult for any of us for that matter. Plenty of small, local banks to choose and tons of credit unions. The worst thing you could do is have your money at some nationally chartered bank.
Finally the Perp Walks have begun ! Yahoo !
Our President takes a stand on conservative principles:
UPDATE 1-Bush admin threatens veto of Senate housing bill
Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:34pm BST
(Adds details of bills, White House objections)
WASHINGTON, June 19 (Reuters) - The White House on Thursday threatened to veto a U.S Senate housing market rescue plan, objecting to a provision that would give state and local governments grants to buy and fix up foreclosed properties.
The Senate was debating the bill on the floor as the White House issued its statement:
“If it were presented to the president in its current form, his senior advisers would recommend that he veto this bill.”
The White House said the block grant provision would mainly benefit private lenders, who are now the owners of the foreclosed properties, instead of struggling homeowners.
I’m sure Exeter will find something wrong with this.
Now I”M proud of my country
Mortgage Veto… or…. x1 war in Iraq & x1 war in Afghanistan?
You get right to the “core issues” of the American Populace…
McSame = Busch Lite
“The White House said the block grant provision would mainly benefit private lenders, who are now the owners of the foreclosed properties, instead of struggling homeowners.”
I don’t support bailing out either, but if he were sent a bill just helping “struggling homeowners”, would be sign it?
Of course, it’s ok if it actually goes directly to industry, as in the Bear Stearns bailout, but god forbid, we give any money to the little people.
I’m as skeptical of a bailout as anyone, but if the government’s handing out money, I say give it to the people who need it, not the industry who created the bubble in the first place.
This administration has repeatedly sided with big business at the expense of the “struggling” individual. When it threatens to veto a piece of legislation because it “helps” big business, but not the “struggling homeowner”, I’m skeptical as to its motives.
Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat and primary sponsor of the legislation,
him again
Our President takes a stand on conservative principles:
The only reason president Bush is taking this stand is because his liberal spending ways during his administration did not work. He is far from being a conservative and that is coming from a republican!
“More than 400 people have been charged in a nationally coordinated probe of mortgage fraud that involved an estimated $1 billion in losses, the U.S. Justice Department said on Thursday.”
Now let’s see Congress bring them before a televised hearing for all to see; wouldn’t that put fear in the hearts of many across the country and at the same time stop the Congress from putting forth worthless bailouts.
“Koppel’s price cut pales in comparison to that of Kennedy, widow of assassinated Sen. Robert F. Kennedy.”
OT: Ethel and Rbt K. and entourage went down the Yampa and Green rivers in 1965 with infamous river guide Bus Hatch of Vernal, Utah. He told some funny stories (RIP), he was an independent type and was pissed by their arrogant attitudes, including what he calls the incessant call for “beah-yeah.” But they loved Bus and went down a number of rivers with him. He described the family as “a traveling circus.”
One trip John Glenn was on and they had a big water fight. Bus and John were in a raft together and getting beat bad by Ethel and her kids. Finally, John Glenn jumped in the water, swam over to them, got in their raft and threw them all in the river, then swam back to Bus. Bus asked him what made him think of that and he replied, “I was a Marine, and it’s an old Marine tradition to charge when you don’t know what to do.”
Wasn’t is John Glenn who said when flying miles above the earth “Yeah, the only thing that bothers me is that I’m riding in the low bidder”………gotta love it when the guv’ment gets involved in anything……….
Isn’t that true when one flies on any commercial airliner?
“Koppel’s price cut pales in comparison to that of Kennedy, widow of assassinated Sen. Robert F. Kennedy. Her home in McLean, Va., listed for $25 million in 2003, was reduced to $20 million and then to $16.5 million. The 10,524-square-foot estate is now listed by Washington Fine Properties for $12.5 million.”
“But Dewita Soeharjono, a broker in Virginia, says not to feel too bad for homeowning politicos forced to reduce their asking prices. ‘Actually, these guys bought the property way back then,’ said Soeharjono. ‘[So] they actually made multiple times on their investment.’”
What a relief! I had actually blocked out a significant amt. of time this evening to cry in my “beah-yeah” over poor Ethel’s inability to realize a gazillion percent profit on her oversized POS.
Glad that’s all settled.
Sounds pretty much like every river trip I’ve ever been on.
RE: Sounds pretty much like every river trip I’ve ever been on.
On the Maine rivers I guide on, you don’t want to get outta the boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhkJT78RCuc
Geezlouise HD, what is that Class 4? Man, you’d think that bunch of guys would learn and quit doing the same thing over and over…
Did you tell them that, that they don’t wanna get outta the boat?? Were you the guide on this trip?
Too crazy. Ah…take me back to Stillwater on the Green… but you’d be bored outta your flippin’ mind!
“On the Maine rivers I guide on, you don’t want to get outta the boat.”
HD, where do you guide? I got a nice sizable dent above my ankle from when I got out of the boat at the guide’s suggestion and neglected to keep my feet up. It only took a few seconds to do some major damage. That was in the Dead River.
I did the Kennebec and we got outta the boat in milder sections on that one too. But that was a milder ride than the Dead. Actually most of it was kind of boring.
Perhaps we went later in the year when they weren’t running as rough.
HD,
That. Was. Awesome. Here in the great-wet-NW seeing big water as the snow pack was a big-un this year. Must book trip. Now.
Wow oh wow. Talking about peeing your pants and no one being able to see.
“He described the family as ‘a traveling circus.’”
Lol.
So, tell us more about this “infamous” Bus Hatch.
He was the guy that would say to his river guides, “Don’t just stand there, do something, even if it’s wrong!”
Or, “Don’t just stand there like your waiting to be milked.”
Or the story of his first communion, he drank all the grape juice in one swig and ate all the crackers and said, “Jesus Christ, ma, is this all they’re gonna feed us?”
Born in the 1920s, a legend. His company still runs the rivers, they always provide a nice pillow for each customer, as Bus said a nice pillow is what made camping luxurious. Google Hatch Expeditions, though it was split into two companies and then bought out, so not the same..
Thanks, Lost.
Grape juice?
Yeah, you know, that stuff you get in communion. Bus was a Mormon boy, none of that fermented stuff. (cousin to Senator Hatch)
Unless, like me, you’ve been excommunicated.
“But Dewita Soeharjono, a broker in Virginia, says not to feel too bad for homeowning politicos forced to reduce their asking prices. ‘Actually, these guys bought the property way back then,’ said Soeharjono. ‘[So] they actually made multiple times on their investment.’”
Ok Lost, this is for you. The lady in the link is my cousin’s ex wife.
He dumped her way too soon. But she ran off her with her wealthy real estate boss and makes a mint. Maybe I should do an interview with her. Reaching for my microphone.
http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/homegarden/5983.html
mary grover ehrgood. http://www.wfp.com/about/agentProf.asp?id=1408
How do I find this year’s fancy homes she is selling?
Geez, that wouldn’t be called a house out here, it would be called a…well, a mirage! Nothing like that around here.
“A home can command top dollar, Ehrgood says, “when the buyer perceives that the property is ‘best in class.’ ” In addition to a prime location and estatelike site, this can mean historic significance, sweeping water views, or the imprint of a famous architect.”
So, does this mean that the old Cactus Rat Mine over on the Poison Strip is actually worth something? I mean, it’s for sure best in class, has a prime location and estatelike site, historic significance (an old can dump), even though no sweeping water views or architect.
My cousin just called. He wants to borrow 80k.
Send him to the cousin’s ex-wife, or was that HIS ex-wife?
Ouro, word’s out that you don’t charge interest, I suspect…
The uncle who left money to one son, is the brother to the ex husband of the that real estate beyeatch.
actually the wedding was great circa 1981.
Did you tell him to go to hellen waite for a loan?
Are you sure we are not related?
“He said some of the roadblocks are…and tougher qualifications for those seeking to obtain mortgages.”
So due diligence is a roadblock? to what? the “V”-shaped recovery? the permanently high plateau? neverending prosperity? or just his next commission?
BTW - 1Q numbers from the Chicago neighborhoods are closely following the pattern seen already on the coasts. Sales volumes drops off, prices take one last pitch upwards, and then…
““More than 400 people have been charged in a nationally coordinated probe of mortgage fraud that involved an estimated $1 billion in losses”
———————————————————-
That’s a good start. Only 1.999 million more to go.
Just like I was saying…
“‘While it is clear that many people signed the affidavits of occupancy, they did it also at three or four other subdivisions where they bought houses,’ he said. ‘It was strictly a matter of dishonesty.’”
As far as I know, there is no possible derogatory meaning to the world ‘honest’.
Honest?
tresho, that one occurred to me, but I restrained myself. Honest.
“Honest John’s Used Cars”
‘No one who’s unemployed ever bought a house,’ said Lawrence Angelilli, senior VP of finance at Centex Corp.”
Hey Lawrence, you should have thought about that when you were hyping up the market and selling to the flippers! You did not listen to the advice provided to you and now Centex is paying the price of greed!
Countryfried
http://www.examiner.com/a-1449448~Bank_of_America_PAC_money_behind_Dodd_s_Countrywide_loan.html
Commentary - Bank of America PAC money behind Dodd’s Countrywide loan
WASHINGTON (Map, News) - “We call it the ‘Bank of America bill on steroids.’” A House staffer told me that, demanding anonymity, but speaking on behalf of aides to GOP members of the House Financial Services Committee.
That suggests an answer to a question which has been on the tip of my keyboard the past few days, which is whether BOA would be the big winner if the Dodd-Frank bailout goes through. I will be looking forward to more information on this fascinating topic in the coming days.
Yep. Bailing out Countryfried will make BoA’s deal work. They get to toss every last bad loan at the taxpayers. Otherwise they’re screwed.
If they bought CW for roughly 70 cents on the dollar (I don’t remember what the price vs. assets was) and can toss the bad loans worth 50 cents on the dollar to the taxpayers for 87 cents on the dollar, they make out like bandits! If they’re forced to sell them at 50 cents on the dollar, they take a beating.
That’s a nice variant on the $29 bn of taxpayer-funded guarantees used to persuade JPM to swallow a Bear.
Remember six or so months ago, maybe longer, when Jack Welch was telling many in corporate America to be aggressive and to ignore nervousness with regard to the general economic environment?
And then, IIRC, he went on to compare some stupendous deal he did back in the day with the BAC announcement to buy CFC? How great it was going to be…?
Unless I’m misunderstanding what’s going on, I wonder if ol’ Jack knew that the situation was going to get so bad, to the point where things are today, where BAC would have an opportunity to offload CFC’s crap onto taxpayers and make the deal.
But then again, I doubt it.
If ONLY this crap would get the bill killed. The bill won’t save housing, but it will cost taxpayers a lot of money.
And Bush’s veto threat? What a puss. He’s complaining about the 4 billion to states, not the 300 billion directly to banks. Douchebag.
Ha. No comment
http://dallas.craigslist.org/com/725632044.html
With 500K cash in your IRA account and gold medallions hang from your neck…are you worried? Surely there’s a Black Water Security office in local strip mall, he!! you could bike ride there when the market closes, oh, sorry, I forgot your a subscriber:
GOP Motto: “Live & vote in fear”
I notice you had a no comment about this as well:
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/04/23/image613312x.jpg
Right and my no house, 25 year old furniture, 2 year old Honda and 5 dogs? Yea, I’m living large, no doubt.
May I suggest yoga or transcendental meditation? You seem to have an anger problem.
Or a knack for truthful reality.
My final comment…in dissent…
It’s not about charity…it’s about SACRAFICE! …everyday, everyday, we live ..they die.
Comment by txchick57
2008-06-19 16:01:01
Empire: I’d be happy to sit down and compare my charitable giving over the past 8 years to yours or anyone else’s on here.
“She started it!”
“Did not”
“Did so”
“Did not”
“Did so”
……….Huge slap with a 20# trout…..thud…(body slams to the floor)
“dazed / moaning”………..”I’m telling Dad”
Your only retort “tag” is?:
“you’re angry…you hate”
Maybe you’ve been “day-trading” too long…
sacrafice? Is that something they do in Sacramento?
I’m sorry, I cant type or spell or “Day Trade”
Worse yet, I can’t come to accept a WAR in Iraq…
You win.
http://anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/sacrifice.htm
Anyone know what Joel Osteen has to do with this security company?
txchick may I…?
is this a possible response?
“I think he’s a hunk.”
Comment by txchick57
2008-06-18 08:46:18
“I get so tired of people crapping on Sean Hannity as if he were some sort of ogre. He appears to me to be one of the most decent guys I’ve seen in a long time.”
“I think he’s a hunk.
U slay me Txchick, W and banker pals run amok for years allowing this crap to happen, and now you praise him for vetoing some ridiculous bail-out bill.
Yeah, we leftwingers refusal to drill ANWR is why gas is $5 a gallon too—nothing to do with destruction of $ due to this housing fiasco or our empowerment of Iran via W’s war.
And the difference betw. Huffington Post and your preferred reading is that we lefties generally have the decency not to call our opponents idiots, tho that is what we are thinking most of the time.
Nobody seems to mention that state banking commissioners petitioned the Bush administration in 2004 and again in 2005 during their annual conference in DC asking them to put an end to the insanity. Response? Silence 2x.
Why is that?
“…In some areas, local officials are working with developers to use empty units in golf course developments as subsidized housing for Spaniards who cannot afford the high price of new homes.”
Great. In about 15 or 20 years we’ll have a whole new crop of little Seve’s and Sergio’s trying to knock an aging Tiger off his titanium knees.
Hundreds swept up in mortgage fraud arrests
…FBI estimates $1B in losses from mortgage fraud schemes nationwide…
Only a billion??? What a joke, try 100 billion. OWP
Sounds like the CIC means business on this veto threat. Hopefully he is better at following his words with action than the Fed chairman is.
UPDATE 1-W. House vows housing bill veto as Senate debates
Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:56pm EDT
(Adds background on veto threat in paragraphs 4-7, 17)
By Kevin Drawbaugh
WASHINGTON, June 19 (Reuters) - The White House threatened to veto a major housing rescue bill on Thursday just as the U.S. Senate began debate on it, setting up a partisan fight over legislation that backers say could save hundreds of thousands of distressed homeowners from foreclosure.
…
“The federal government must not prolong necessary corrections in the housing market, bail out lenders, or subsidize irresponsible borrowing and lending,” the White House said in a statement.
Wow !
Mortgage fraud sweep marks a turning point
Widespread FBI probe highlights breadth and scope of lending crime
ANALYSIS
By John W. Schoen
Senior Producer
MSNBC
updated 5 minutes ago
…
Even as the government was announcing criminal actions and calling for tougher regulations, Congress was debating a comprehensive housing relief bill that’s been in the works for over a year. The White House said Thursday that President Bush would veto the package as conservative Republicans worked to block the measure amid a scandal over cut-rate mortgages for senators.
Allegations have recently been made that Sens. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., and Kent Conrad, D-N.D., got cut-rate home loans from Countrywide, a leading subprime lender at the center of the mortgage meltdown. Both have said they neither asked for nor knew about the special treatment.
…
Checkmate, game over.
_____________________________________________________________
“What were the managers of Bear Stearns‘ hedge funds thinking as the mortgage markets began to go haywire and investors started asking for their money back? Thursday’s indictments against those former managers, Ralph R. Cioffi and Matthew Tannin, offer some fascinating clues”
“In an April 22 e-mail from Mr. Tannin…Mr. Tannin wrote: ‘ the subprime market looks pretty damn ugly… If we believe the [CDOs report is] ANYWHERE CLOSE to accurate I think we should close the funds now. The reason for this is that if [the CDO report] is correct then the entire supbrime market is toast… If AAA bonds are systematically downgraded then there is simply now way for us to make money - ever.’”
The carry-trade unwinds.
Now that their inter-office emails are being made public it’s pretty clear these guys were ’somewhat’ aware of the mess they made or were in but just couldnt’ quite own up to. Whatever the outcome, it was good to see them in cuffs.
When Enron/Worldcom were heading irreversibly toward meltdown, the internet was still young. I think half the reason I’ve participated in these crazy blogs is to create an archive that we can throw in their face the next time this cr@p surfaces.
“No one understood the impact to the real estate market”
Really…? Well about THREE YEARS prior…
Ethics panel examines lawmakers’ Countrywide loans
Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:34pm BST
By John Poirier
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Congressional ethics panel is examining allegations that two Senate Democrats, including the sponsor of a major housing bill, received preferential loans by troubled mortgage lender Countrywide Financial Corp, a member of Congress said on Thursday.
“My view is that these allegations should be considered by the appropriate bodies, and I understand that the Senate Ethics Committee has already begun to look into the matter,” Rep. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a statement.
Frank is chairman of the House of Representatives Financial Services Committee.
Thornburg Mortgage Says Survival in Doubt
By LINGLING WEI
June 19, 2008; Page C2
Thornburg Mortgage Inc. said in a federal filing that the future of the home-mortgage finance company as a viable business remains in doubt, despite a fund-raising plan announced two months ago that rescued it from bankruptcy at the time.
Like other mortgage lenders, the Santa Fe, N.M., company has been under pressure during the housing crunch as the value of mortgages has fallen precipitously. But Thornburg’s troubles have been of particular interest because it specialized in loans to relatively wealthy, credit-worthy borrowers — not subprime loans.
Housing crisis brings Wall St arrests, veto threat
* Former Bear Stearns managers charged over fund losses
* Federal authorities announce crackdown on mortgage fraud
* White House threatens veto of housing rescue (Recasts with Paulson proposal, Abromowitz comment)
By Kevin Drawbaugh and Randall Mikkelsen
WASHINGTON, June 19 (Reuters) - The U.S. housing crisis produced its first high-profile Wall Street arrests on Thursday, while the Bush administration called for broadening the Federal Reserve’s powers over investment banks and said it has charged hundreds of people in a mortgage fraud probe.
At the same time, the White House issued a surprise veto threat against a Senate bill aimed at preventing hundreds of thousands of foreclosures. The threat signaled more partisan warfare on Capitol Hill as homeowners struggle.
The MSM financial press is all over the CIC’s veto threat, without delving into the more substantive question of whether the primary beneficiaries of the bailout would be homeowners or lenders.
White House veto threat to housing law
By James Politi in Washington
Published: June 19 2008 23:52 | Last updated: June 19 2008 23:52
The path to completion of new US housing legislation experienced its latest twist on Thursday when the White House threatened to veto a Senate version of the bill that had won the support of many Republicans.
…
The White House veto threat came just before senators began debating the legislation on the floor, with a final vote expected next week. Chris Dodd, the Democratic chairman of the banking committee, touted the package as a way to deal with the “heart” of the US economic downturn.
But his efforts to shepherd the housing bill through the Senate have been overshadowed by revelations that he received preferential rates from Countrywide Financial in 2003 as a member of the mortgage lender’s VIP programme.
On Thursday Jim Bunning and Jim DeMint, two Republican senators, demanded that the legislation be sent back to the banking committee so legislators could better examine what benefits would incur to mortgage lenders such as Countrywide. The Senate ethics committee is already conducting a preliminary inquiry into the matter.
John Boehner, the Republican leader in the House, added that his body should also look into the matter: “These are serious allegations and to think that we’re going to move a housing bill with these questions looming I think is irresponsible.”