The Air Is Definitely Different In California
The San Francisco Chronicle reports form California. “California’s unemployment rate rocketed up by 0.6 percentage points in May - the largest one-month increase since the state began keeping records in 1976. Most of the job market’s distress has stemmed directly from the housing crash. Construction and finance, which includes mortgage, real estate and title companies, together lost 123,000 jobs over the past 12 months.”
“Berkeley resident Phil Catalfo has been looking for work as an editor for almost a year…but gotten few responses. When Catalfo was looking for work three years ago, he was swamped with freelance jobs. This time, assignments are trickling in slowly.”
“‘The air is definitely different,’ he said.”
The Bay Area Newsgroup. “The East Bay has lost nearly 12,000 jobs so far in 2008 - including thousands more last month. But during the past 12 months, the East Bay accounted for two out of every three jobs lost in the Golden State.”
“The collapse of the housing market has convinced Stephanie Hamett, an Oakley resident, to abandon her career in the mortgage industry. She worked in the mortgage sector for four years.”
“Hamett is skeptical that housing will rebound any time soon. ‘This is worse than we all thought it would be and it’s probably going to deteriorate even more,’ Hamett said of the housing market. ‘It’s a bigger mess than people imagine.’”
The Ventura County Star. “Ventura County’s job market continued to see signs of softening last month, with particularly weak showings in manufacturing and construction. Last month…the number of out-of-work people jumped 1,800, a result of recent graduations and more people entering the labor force.”
“‘That’s interesting, because normally, people don’t enter the labor force when jobs are going down,’ said Bill Watkins, executive director of the UC Santa Barbara Economic Forecast.”
“One possible explanation is that with inflation and gas prices rising, people are returning to work, Watkins said.”
“In Ventura County, construction was flat in comparison to April, but down year over year by 2,200 - the biggest annual loss among all sectors.”
“‘The bottom line is the industry is in the worst shape it’s been in for decades,’ said John Frith, VP of public affairs for the California Building Industry Association. ‘The market has completely evaporated for new housing in most parts of the state.’”
“Camarillo contractor Mark Varnum prefers the more competitive market. Customers have more selection and can make smarter choices, and it ‘weeds out the idiots in this business.’”
“‘When it’s booming, everyone’s a contractor,’ he said.”
The Press Enterprise. “Job loss continued to plague the Inland region in May, the fifth month in a row in which there were thousands fewer jobs than last year, and it was the worst monthly decline on record for the Inland region.”
“‘I’ve studied this economy since 1964 … never, in 44 years, have we had a year where we averaged a net loss,’ said Inland economist John Husing. ‘That is unprecedented. That has never happened before.’”
The San Gabriel Valley News. “Los Angeles County’s unemployment rate jumped nearly a point to 6.7 percent in May, its highest level in nearly 4 years, according to the state Employment Development Department.”
“The last time the region’s unemployment rate was so high was in January 2004, when it hit 6.9 percent. ‘It’s a discouraging report,’ said Jack Kyser, senior vice president and chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. ‘It’s a little bit surprising how rapidly things went south.’”
The Union Tribune. “San Diego County’s unemployment rate jumped last month to its highest level in nearly five years. As has been the case for months, real estate and lending industries are leading the way in job losses.”
“‘We’re 1.4 percentage points higher than we were a year ago, and that’s a concern,’ said Alan Gin, an economist at the University of San Diego. ‘That shows how weak the job market is.’”
“May’s jobless numbers appear to derail hopes of a summer rebound in employment. May’s numbers reflect a loss of 3,200 jobs over the past year. That is the largest annual job loss the state Employment Development Department has reported for the county since the prolonged local recession in the 1990s, when the region shed thousands of aerospace jobs.”
“‘This is pretty stark, said Murtaza Baxamusa, director of research and policy at a private research group based in San Diego. It likely debunks the notion that the local economy is so diverse that it’s recession-proof, he said.”
The Brentwood Press. “The fastest-growing community in one of the fastest-growing regions in the country, Brentwood’s meteoric growth in recent years has been surpassed only by the speed with which the boom vanished, leaving in its wake unfinished subdivisions and neighborhoods peppered with foreclosure signs.”
“After posting steady gains during the 1990s, housing prices caught fire after the turn of the century, climbing from the mid-$300,000s for a median-priced dwelling in 2002 to almost $650,000 by mid-2006.”
“Creative financing and permissive lending practices helped fuel the climb - with disastrous consequences, said Brentwood broker Brian Sharp.”
“‘Getting someone who makes $45K a year into a $600K mortgage through neg-am, teaser-rate loans, using stated income on their application, is trying to use high-finance concepts on someone that just shouldn’t be in that vehicle when the market turns south and they don’t have the ability to make the fully amortized payments, or the deep pockets to wait out the market,’ he said.”
“‘When the market was going up 20 to 30 percent a year, (lenders) looked like heroes. When the appreciation leveled off, then tanked, then the ARMs (adjustable-rate mortgages) adjusted, they looked like criminals,’ he said.”
“According to MLS data provided by Sharp, by the beginning of this year, a median-priced house in Brentwood had lost more than 40 percent of its value, returning to the mid-$300,000 range of 2002.”
From KSBY 6. “A report from DataQuick Thursday said the median home value for Santa Barbara County has dropped 40 percent year to year. It went from $601,000 in May of 2007 to $360,000 for May of this year.”
“The drop is due mostly to foreclosures and depreciation around Santa Maria, which now represents a larger share of total sales.”
“‘You do have to accept the fact that you’re going to be getting a little less than you’d hoped for,’ said Martha Beckman, president of the Santa Maria Association of Realtors.”
The LA Downtown News. “Although some might raise their eyebrows as the national housing market crisis continues, a group of prominent area developers last week painted a rosy picture of the Downtown residential scene.”
“Still, some do believe the sky is falling, and for that panel moderator Tom Gilmore and others partly blamed the media. Gilmore took the opportunity to chastise the press for reporting on problems and delays with the Grand Avenue plan, which he called a misunderstood project.”
“‘What’s up with you guys?’ he asked some members of the press.”
“Bill Witte of Related of California, whose Grand Avenue project has been repeatedly delayed and is now not scheduled to arrive, at the earliest, until 2012, said Downtown needs to be viewed in the context of other areas, not just across the country, but even in Southern California. He read off a list of high-rise projects in areas such as Marina Del Rey, West L.A. and Orange County that have been halted.”
“‘I have a whole lot of friends on suicide watch in Orange County,’ he joked, saying the area is filled with ‘corpses of projects.’”
The Voice of San Diego. “In February, a homebuyer paid $591,000 for No. 602, a bank-owned unit in the Parkloft development near Petco Park. Two years ago, the buyer of the same unit paid $1.1 million. That meant at least a $509,000 loss for the lender.”
“But the 46 percent price plunge in two years represents more than the effect of a despondent housing market, prosecutors say. The unit was never worth $1.1 million and buyer Gloria Agundez never earned the $301,000 salary to make the mortgage payments on that sum, officials said.”
“And the employer listed on Agundez’s application for a mortgage, U.S. Mergers, never existed, officials said. Agundez said she never bought it, either. She told the FBI that her identity was stolen and her signature forged to purchase the property in the first place, according to court documents.”
“Agundez’s unit counts among 21 properties considered by investigators at the IRS and the FBI to be purchased fraudulently, part of an alleged mortgage fraud ring announced Thursday.”
“The court documents in this case offer insight into some of the machinations by which San Diego’s housing market reached a dizzying peak earlier this decade and has since spiraled into a freefall.”
“As mortgages for 18 of the 21 properties analyzed by the FBI have already ended in foreclosure, the properties involved have sold at bottom-scraping prices, often drastically undercutting the values for the whole neighborhood or condo building.”
“Though many in the real estate community have known such deals were happening for years, these are the first charges brought in cash back at closing transactions.”
“‘This is exactly what I’ve been screaming about for the last 18 months,’ said Todd Lackner, a Mission Valley real estate appraiser and mortgage fraud expert. ‘I’m elated to hear law enforcement’s going after these crooks. Certainly this isn’t the only one.’”
It doesn’t make me happy to see the economy shed jobs, but it was pretty predictable and puts a light on how RE markets can over correct. We were told over and over years ago that housing couldn’t fall unless there was a recession in California. Many here countered that housing is what usually drags an economy into recession.
It also shows how pointless rate cuts and loan programs are in a falling market. What difference do FHA loans make with the jobs and price decline landscape we see in California?
Really long time readers may remember our resident realtor-poster Deb, who wasn’t active but kept her MLS membership, started to point out houses suddenly selling for amounts way over asking. I believe this was in the LA area in early-2006. She was really on to something.
“‘I’ve studied this economy since 1964 … never, in 44 years, have we had a year where we averaged a net loss,’ said Inland economist John Husing. ‘That is unprecedented. That has never happened before.’”
&
“…the largest one-month increase since the state began keeping records in 1976.”
&
“…that housing is what usually drags an economy into recession.”
“Why is the sea the king of a thousand streams? …because it lies below them” Lao Tzu
Let’s use a recent analogy:
Many streams are now adding to the rivers, levees will be breached…
And what lies below…. June 2008… is ever increasing unemployment…
But hey, we (All taxpayers present & future) just this week gave Shrub 196 Billion $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ USD…no conditions…to continue to spread “democracy” among the Muslin / Islamic Nations, …just ask them: Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Dubai…things could not be better in the “Kingdoms” , in fact gasoline in Saudiville is still only… 45 cents per gallon …At this rate, there will be more Hardley’s & Hummers in the Middle east then in America…
Lets continue this “All is well” …National Policy:
McSame = Busch Lite
1930 raised marginal rates and further enforcement of smoot-hawley
word yo
Shudder…
The later scares me. I see the pressure for a Smoot-Hawley.
Raised rates? That’s just overdue medicine to move the pig through the python.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“‘I’ve studied this economy since 1964 … never, in 44 years, have we had a year where we averaged a net loss,’ said Inland economist John Husing. ‘That is unprecedented. That has never happened before.’”
Homer: Oh Lisa! There’s no record of a hurricane ever hitting Springfield.
Lisa: Yes, but the records only go back to 1978 when the Hall of Records was mysteriously blown away.
LOL
The good news is, if elected BHO has said he will send out ’stimulus’ checks for as long as it takes to get the economy back on track. That coupled with huge tax increases on the ‘evil’ rich should do the trick!
What a moron…. But hey it’s change! Looks like the choice come this November is between dumb & dumber.
I heard Obama went to school with Robert Mugabe, so that would explain his plan.
I just hope the stimulus comes with a free wheelbarrow so we can carry enough cash for a loaf of bread.
If I recall correctly, a couple of buildings came down not too long after the *last* rebate checks…
It’s all Bush’s fault. Osama will do a much better job.
“Why is the sea the king of a thousand streams? …because it lies below them” Lao Tzu’
What a coincidence!
Lao Tzu bugs the H*LL out of me. I just now, today, decided this, as I peacefully sorted my bookshelves, as an activity suitable for gathering up my energies, preparatory to an active solstice-celebrating fiery evening. I put every single Lao Tze book in the ‘Bring to the Free Store on Roger’s Ave.’ pile.
Seriously, I’d bang that monk’s head on the nearest ‘uncarved block’ until he shut up and got a job. See how much anyone heeds your mumbles when you got a deadline, Mr. Lao Obscure. Yes, he’s better than Confucius, an infinity better, but he still shoulda shut up and done something. Anything, I don’t care what. You know what I think, and I have mentioned this before, referencing Bible writers–the reason they spent so much time scribbling in a cave by candlight is, they didn’t have girlfriends. Now, do you want to listen to any ancient guy who couldn’t even attract an ancient girlfriend? Me neither. They were even all hairy in those days, can you imagine, so that’s even more defective.
If it were not for the laughter… it would not be the tao…
Oly, tell me you know the story of the tortoise shell?
“…I put every single Lao Tze book in the ‘Bring to the Free Store on Roger’s Ave.’”
Do nothing…
“Seriously, I’d bang that monk’s head on the nearest ‘uncarved block’ until he shut up and got a job.”
AHAHAHAHAHA! Man, that really struck me Oly. Thanks.
Contrast to sterotypes, at least Confucious was a fine warrior. Once in a battle, his dad lifted a very heavy barricade for his whole army to escape from a trap.
Lao zi and Confucious both belongs to a class that is like the medieval lords, training to fight was part of growing up.
And yeah, at that age they marry before they reach 20, though they can still have girlfriends - if they are not very poor.
“What difference do FHA loans make with the jobs and price decline landscape we see in California?”
My impression is that it has something to do with getting the taxpayer to pay for lenders’ gambling losses.
This is what so many don’t seem to understand; THEY ARE WALKING AWAY! There have been record foreclosures now for almost two years, by almost every measure. These people don’t want loans. Look at the failure of Hope Now. And we have only just gotten started. Just barely into a recession, price declines are already at records. Think about how much more of an incentive it is to walk with every few thousand underwater.
Since I’ve got the bail out crowd cackling like hens this weekend, I’ll reiterate a point that I think is more important than worrying about things we have no control of; there are going to be fortunes made over the next few years in these markets, by private individuals just like you and me.
Think about that.
there are going to be fortunes made over the next few years in these markets, by private individuals just like you and me.
—————-
Hey, Ben, please feel free to elaborate on that because I’m not sure what you mean, but would be very interested to know : )
Also, are you talking about “investing” and “making a fortune” through buying houses? There are people on this site that are always outraged at the thought that anyone would buy a house as an investment . . . in any case, if you want to explain what you mean, that would be great for the more clueless, such as myself.
I spent years exploring all the options on my foreclosure blog, available to anyone for free. It’s in the sidebar.
Tax liens, cash-flow properties, asset management, it’s endless.
When I look back at the Texas bust, the thing I remember most were all the absolute steals I saw right in front of me. And like the vast majority, I was too paralyzed by the fear of the day to act.
Ok, thanks Ben, I’ll check it out . . .
In the department of Absolute Steals, I thought a $300K house in Brentwood sounded too good to be true … until I realized that the “Brentwood” they’re talking about isn’t the posh Bev-Hills-adjacent section of West LA, but rather some dusty Nowheresville due north of Livermore. Sheesh. Guess I gotta wait a little longer!
Ben,
you say fortunes can be made in 5 years. Imho, I would really like to know how you can make this statement. My mother was a child of the depression and it scared her for her life. She and others who came through, their life styles didn’t change.
With the way this is playing out so far, I suspect that very few individuals will have any money/PM to purchase and if we do, I suspect that no one will be anxious to lock it up in an illiquid asset. The key will be cash flow/a job. I am afraid that jobs will start disappearing in large quantities. You know, like each of us sell to each other houses.
just one person’s opinion.
That’s precisely the point.
Fortunes are always made buying assets for cheap when times are hard. When the herd is terrified, you should be out there picking up stuff.
If you are in the cash flow game, you are not going to be buying assets.
At the end of this cycle, there will be far more attractive places for cash than a house.
“… I suspect that very few individuals will have any money/PM to purchase and if we do, I suspect that no one will be anxious to lock it up in an illiquid asset.”
You are correct, and that is why some people will get rich.
Those with money will dictate prices to those without money.
Illiquid assets? Don’t limit your thinking. Extend your thinking past real estate and take a look at the stock market.
Historically Wall Street periodically has clearance sales, times when prices everywhere are marked down. Those with money and patience will buy on the cheap from those with neither.
“The key will be cash flow/a job.”
There it is.
My father’s father, a coal broker, became wealthy in the Great Depression, not much before that. It happens. Hope the genes hold…
“And like the vast majority, I was too paralyzed buy the fear of the day to act.”
True. I saw a 4-plex owned by FNM recently back in my hometown. They wanted $199K. I thought I’d offer $110K (with great cash flow) and let them laugh at me. I ended up not trying and it sold for $116K. Opportunity lost.
“Historically Wall Street periodically has clearance sales, times when prices everywhere are marked down. Those with money and patience will buy on the cheap from those with neither.”
Yep combo, that’s what I’m looking for.
Forget houses, think of how much the cost of really freaking good shoes will come down! I scored a gorgeous pair of Louboutin nude pumps for just over a third of retail. If this is a taste of the next recession, oh sweet goddess of opulent footwear, please bring me more >; )
“THEY ARE WALKING AWAY!”
I think this may be the motive behind the sudden intense interest in showing how tough the FBI is on mortgage fraud. They are attempting to crack the whip.
I went to see a condo that’s a short sale today and the agent said the previous owner just walked away from the place. There’s a squatter living there. The agent said the bank is not gonna agree to one cent less on the amount listed. I didn’t say anything but I’m like oh yeah after couple more months not selling this place and let’s see how desperate they’ll get. These agents must think buyers today are stupid ‘cuz they keep trying to scare me into writing an offer right then saying it won’t last etc.
It also shows that overcorrections aren’t always really overcorrections.
Some people think that it’s mainly irrational fear that drives prices below the object’s intrinsic value. But if a lot of people don’t have capital to spare (or think they don’t), then it doesn’t matter if they think things are undervalued, they’re out of the game and prices will go down even further until they can get back in. People think the bargain prices are there for anybody to take, but seeing an opportunity and being able to act on it are two different things.
The number of people who will sit in the penalty box as prices decline is pretty impressive.
Add over-building and increasing interest rates. Two other factors that point to a return to below historic norms as the appropriate equilibrium.
Exactamundo!!! Last time I checked the nation is still building new houses faster than they are being sold!
How can we have a turnaround without a decrease in the glut of inventory?
“… but seeing an opportunity and being able to act on it are two different things.”
Cash is king. Those with cash will be able to act on the opportunities. Those without cash will just have to watch.
Those people with cash who will benefit greatly in the long run, save for a few, are all the usual suspects. This whole bubble was one giant ripoff of the little people orchestrated perfectly by the pig men of Wall St. and all of the complicit politician henchmen. Once the dust settles, they’ll be better off than they ever have. It’s a sick world.
The job situation is really dire here in Silicon Valley, but you can still cut the smug with a knife.
People are beginning to realize what is going to happen to living standards as the US economy sinks into a depression:
“Everything seemingly is spinning out of control”:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/06/21/national/w074040D99.DTL&tsp=1
Four things to do:
1. Get and keep a job.
2. Rent so you can be mobile for your job.
3. Save or invest at least 25% of your after-tax pay (e.g. money market funds, CDs, TIPS, gold, land/food/guns, whatever suits you).
4. Eliminate debt unless you can pay all your debt off if you lose your job.
The next few years are not going to be pretty. If you don’t remember what the Great Depression and the 1980-1981 recession were like, you are about to find out.
Keep the popcorn popping,
Red Baron
That article is really the limit.
They are comparing the writers’ strike to floods and a tsunami?
Wow, just wow.
Want to escape on the couch? A writers’ strike halted favorite TV shows for half a season. The newspaper on the table may soon be a relic of the Internet age. Just as video stores are falling by the wayside as people get their movies online or in the mail.
But there’s always sports, right?
The moorings seem to be coming loose here, too.
Baseball stars Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens stand accused of enhancing their heroics with drugs. Basketball referees are suspected of cheating.
Stay tuned for less than pristine tales from the drug-addled Tour de France and who knows what from the Summer Olympics.
————-
That struck me, too. I think they needed to fill some space or something. These are almost an argument for: see everything’s not so bad — you can get your news online now, and your movies in the mail, and sports stars are still doing drugs, just like they always have been . . .
If you want sports, go to your local high school, junior college or I dare say college in the area. Its not as rigged (though this is becoming questionable). Also, I guess they call them B league teams of semi professionals that can be fun and all are relatively cheap unless the college teams are big ten colleges.
lol
I’m looking forward to the rapid deflation in sports salaries. It’s inevitable if people cannot afford to attend such events anymore. I’m tired of these adults making hundreds of millions of dollars playing kids games, and acting like them as well.
Since when is extreme drug addition, rape, dog-fighting, stabbings and drive-bys acting like a kid. I just rode my bike. Dont compare my childhood to that trash.
Sarah makes a good point.
It’s pretty much the reason I pay much less attention to the NBA these days.
As far as NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL salaries, I do not recall them taking too much of hit “the last time” (late 70’s, early 80’s), though perhaps that had more to do with the onset of big-time free agency in baseball and two leagues in hockey.
And finally, I would guess that if television retains audiences during a large scale economic downturn, sports salaries for the bigger stars are just going to increase.
Bantering! you have given me great hope. I have long been completely disgusted w/ huge sports salaries, but since I don’t patronize pro team sports, there seemed little more I could do. TV is the big revenue source, though, isn’t it? (I don’t know the breakdown. ?)
“I’m looking forward to the rapid deflation in sports salaries. It’s inevitable if people cannot afford to attend such events anymore.”
I think it’ll be driven more by decreasing ad revenue. While ticket prices and concession prices have gone up substantially, it’s the television contracts supported by ad revenue that have largely supported the salary increases. Declining businesses can’t supply the ad revenue for ever-increasing television contracts.
A couple of other side issues that will hit the cost side of the sports business are local/state financing of stadiums (much higher debt service costs for some states/counties/cities depending on the the type of financing) and higher fuel costs pushing travel costs higher. I wonder what type of scheduling adjustments may be made in the future to try to reduce travel costs.
“Since when is extreme drug addition, rape, dog-fighting, stabbings and drive-bys acting like a kid. I just rode my bike. Dont compare my childhood to that trash.”
Easy there, Sarah. It wasn’t personal. It’s the childish behavior I was alluding to (wahhh wahhh I don’t wike my contwact, etc.); far different than the criminal behavior you describe.
I know. It was a bit of hyperbole. It does make me mad, however, that guys look up to other guys that they think are good with playing with balls regardless of whether they are decent role models. Many will even defend their criminal behavior on the basis that the felon can either catch, throw or hit a ball. What is with it with guys and balls? It is beyond meaningless to me.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens at the Olympics with all the pollution Beijing has. Looks like the smoke of a perpetual wildfire hanging over the city.
News reports indicate that Beijing will forcibly close a significant fraction of factories and immobilize most vehicles to create a temporarily breathable atmosphere during the Olympic period.
News reports indicate that Beijing will forcibly close a significant fraction of factories and immobilize most vehicles to create a temporarily breathable atmosphere The USA, on the other hand, will utilize the free market to do the same thing.
The government has already announced an olympic “holiday”. All the factories in Beijing and its surrounding provinces will be closed for 6 weeks before and during the games.
“Why the vulnerability? After all, this is the 21st century, not a more primitive past when little in life was assured. Surely people know how to fix problems now. Maybe. And maybe this is what the 21st century will be about — a great unraveling of some things long taken for granted.”
We know more about how to fix the old problems. However, we’re also able to create more complex new problems which may prove as much or more challenging to solve as the old problems.
What could be more disconcerting for many would be the unraveling of long-held assumptions. Will enough people be able to revive long dormant problem solving skills quickly enough to adapt without enduring a lot of pain?
Back when people were worried whether they had enough potatoes in the cellar for the winter, we were more self-sufficient. Now that we are all fat, dumb, and happy, we are complacent. It doesn’t surprise me that this country has gone down the crapper. It just surprises me how fast it’s happened.
Well, I guess that its time to thin out the gene pool.
lol/not
Red Baron,
the 1973-76 recession was “no walk in the park” either.
“The last time the region’s unemployment rate was so high was in January 2004, when it hit 6.9 percent. ‘It’s a discouraging report,’ said Jack Kyser, senior vice president and chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. ‘It’s a little bit surprising how rapidly things went south.’”
So, I guess all those buyers sitting on the sidelines are busy looking for jobs instead of houses.
1976. Most of the job market’s distress has stemmed directly from the housing crash. Construction and finance, which includes mortgage, real estate and title companies, together lost 123,000 jobs over the past 12 months.”
Let the EAT Escalades
Mikey, I remember 1976 in Bay Area. If I recall correctly, unemployment in the area was around 13%. As a recent graduate, the only good jobs were in oil. Take your pick, Alaska or Houston, Tx.
I picked Texas.
lol
Now that the house ATM is dry, I think we are seeing more folks coming out of ‘early retirement’ looking to get their old jobs back. Good luck to em.
Some of these early retirees were globbed onto by “investment advisers” and promised 10% or more annual returns. I tried to expose many of them to the time-tested “4% Rule” to little effect.
Every once in a while I’ll run into one of these guys; Many of them look as if they’ve aged twenty years.
Sad.
Even 4% is aggressive in these times.
Sad to hear of these people being effectively duped.
And the “advisors” are full of sh*t.
Have you seen how easy the Series 7 actually is? It’s a buncha hoo-ey.
Ten years ago I was in a room with some newly minted Lucent paper millionaires. These were Lucent employees whose 401k plans swelled up as a result of the swelling of Lucent stock. They were euphoric, to say the least.
They were all talking about early retirement, living the life of ease, etc. A few said they were going to become financial advisors.
These guys’ riches was the product of a bull market but nonetheless some were convinced they were financial genuses and planned on cashing in on their “expertise”.
Then, a year or so later, Lucent stock went from something like $62 a share to sixty-two cents a share and everyone in that room ended up financially screwed.
So, I guess all those buyers sitting on the sidelines are busy looking for jobs instead of houses.
People do not commit to mortgages when times are uncertain.
They rent. This bubble has burst, but everyone is just waiting for the evidence. Not much until the Fall. But beware April 2009. I’m worried about what I see coming then.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“This is worse than we all thought it would be and it’s probably going to deteriorate even more,’ Hamett said of the housing market. ‘It’s a bigger mess than people imagine.’”
Not on this blog, honey. Everyone here knew it was a mess years ago while the herd was lining up to feed the squirrels.
Yep. At the risk of becoming complacent about this whole thing, I keep finding myself saying “big deal” with every story. On the other hand, hearing people say “no one could have foreseen this” is entertaining. Always shocks me when I hear it.
Greedy SOBs!
“‘Getting someone who makes $45K a year into a $600K mortgage through neg-am, teaser-rate loans, using stated income on their application, is trying to use high-finance concepts on someone that just shouldn’t be in that vehicle when the market turns south and they don’t have the ability to make the fully amortized payments, or the deep pockets to wait out the market,’ he said.”
No, its greed, plan and simple. Since nothing goes up forever, the only way that this would work was to get in early and get out early. Typical ponzi scam. Does chain letters ring a bell. This scam has been going around in CA since the late 1970s. I had friends (that is how it works) try to suck me in to this and I politely declined. CA (OC) has been one big con for at least 27 years. You can also throw into the mix SD and LA.
Lets just be clear about this . You can’t get someone who make 45k a year into a neg-am mortgage unless the income was inflated on the loan application to over 150k a year . IMHO ,it’s not just a matter of the fact that the loan was not the right loan for that borrower ,but no loan would of been right for that borrower .It took fraud for that buyer to get that loan . This is why in some regards the type of loans customers went on are taking a bad rap .The adjustable ,teaser ,low down/low doc. loan was the one that was the easiest to commit fraud on .
Going on a loan like that by committing loan fraud and than relying on real estate going up to get out before the loan adjusts up ,or refinance into another fraudulent loan and take some money out, was the risk the criminal ,I mean borrower ,was taking. If someone robbed 600k from a bank ,and than invested the money and made profits ,and than put the money they stole back ,it would not be considered any less a crime . Now you take thousand of people pulling this stunt ,and real estate gets inflated beyond reason .
The problem with the current borrowers that got stuck was they didn’t get out before real estate went down ,so the loan crime becomes clear . Unless a person loss their job ,there should be no reason why they can’t pay their mortgage payment ,unless they committed fraud
to get in to begin with . Oh, you could have a situation where
someone qualified for the loan to begin with ,but they went out after they bought the house and ran up a bunch of debt, bought cars ,ran up credit cards,etc. ,so they than became stressed on their over-all payments .But ,thats their fault for buying a bunch of shit they couldn’t afford and I don’t think you want to bail out that type either with these bail-out packages .
Lost Control
I had the same experience with a neighbor selling Amway in 1977. They say if you sell amway, you make all kinds of new friends. Thats because you lose all your current friends.
“‘I have a whole lot of friends on suicide watch in Orange County,’ he joked, saying the area is filled with ‘corpses of projects.’”
So we manufacture corpses now? Heidegger would be proud.
I’m thinking come July 1 that I’ll strut on over to my local BofA, extract about $6K in cash and let them know I’ll be closing my checking account soon because of their endorsement of the housing bill and their takeover of countrywide. If they ask what I need so much cash for, I’ll say “I’m giving out benjamins for a july 4th party”. If the teller asks “Where is the party?”, I’ll grab my crotch and say “Right here, the party’s in my pants.”
Do go on, don’t stop your story there . . . : )
If you post the video on Youtube, I bet you it would be a monster viral hit.
Watch out. An alert bank security worker will have grab the video before the routine overwrite and get credit for the monster hit.
Oskar
AHHAHAHAHAHHAhhahahahaaaa!!
Nice plan Oskar, but I don’t think they’re gonna ask. Oh, and if the teller is a female, you might get smacked. Just sayin’.
Are you saying a female teller would smack a potty mouthed midget? What is this world coming to? Would it be better if I said it was my birthday party?
Housing = “Old School”
Survival = “New Black”
Can you bet in Lost Wages… within 100 years… when “they” will lower “it” to the color Green?
http://www.dhs.gov/xinfoshare/programs/Copy_of_press_release_0046.shtm
“As mortgages for 18 of the 21 properties analyzed by the FBI have already ended in foreclosure, the properties involved have sold at bottom-scraping prices, often drastically undercutting the values for the whole neighborhood or condo building.”
bottom-scraping prices says it all.
pucker up!
…the properties involved have sold at bottom-scraping prices, often drastically undercutting the values for the whole neighborhood or condo building.”
Wait a minute, the values were based on fraud. They were not real to begin with so nothing is being undercut.
I swear, one day there will be a great understanding and not enough crying towels.
Bottom scraping? They are still trotting out that lame phrase?
Listen MSM, we aren’t anywhere near the bottom. Each one of these, “bottom scraped” properties is a future foreclosure! Get that through your thick puddin’ filled heads!!!
Ah yes, the crying game. Everybody thought housing was a beautiful young lady, all tanned and toned. Then the skirt was lifted….
What’s that? uh-oh!
Hey, don’t be harshing on the trannies.
At least they’re not Realtors™. LOL
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rXa_mzCAsq0
It takes until minute 3 to get there, but still a classic!
Drastically “undercutting” values, or drastically exposing them? You can only be a poser for so long.
Brentwood … bleah.
Not a nice place at all. A fast built stucco hell 30+ miles from major job centers (even further to SF), no real public transit, hot hot hot, overcrowded schools, gang problems (= parents are stuck in traffic and working long hours), etc etc etc.
Even with the current collapse in prices, it is still WAY too expensive for the target audience — my calcs had home prices today still about 6-7x income level of the place. Add expensive gas, add heating and AC costs, and mortgage resets coming in for all the bubble buyers, and you get a really really strained “community”.
” … during the past 12 months, the East Bay accounted for two out of every three jobs lost in the Golden State.”
The East Bay has less than 10% of the population of California.
The Bay Area is toast. And with the weather as hot as it is now, and the fire season just getting started, its going to be burnt toast.
Stay out of the Berkeley-Oakland hills. Those eucalyptus love fire and the roads are narrow and two lanes wide before you add the cars parked on either side.
Its also geologically unstable. Be very careful where you buy in the East Bay hills.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/20/MNGRAAEL4H1.DTL
I did my undergrad at Berkeley 1988-1992. Loma Prieta in ‘89, East Bay Hills inferno in ‘91. I kept wondering when the locusts and the plague were going to arrive.
he’ll keep his gov job w the fake out title
said Jack Kyser, senior vice president and chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. ‘It’s a little bit surprising how rapidly things went south.’”
“‘The bottom line is the industry is in the worst shape it’s been in for decades,’ said John Frith, VP of public affairs for the California Building Industry Association. ‘The market has completely evaporated for new housing in most parts of the state.’”
The market has “evaporated” yet they keep building. I guess the industry wants to be in even worse shape than the “worst shape it’s been in for decades”.
Dont let them lie to you. We are still in the bubble stage, and they know it. Homes prices are still selling way above historic norms. This aint nothing.
Worst shape in decades? WTF! They are still in hog heaven. You think those crap boxes would have sold in 1997 for what they want now after adjusting for inflation? Hell no. The scary part is this is still boom times for the building industry. If only they knew (or at least admit) what the next 5 years was going to bring.
Housing is doing great. If they were priced at historic norms they would be selling at much higher than historic norms. If they overpaid too bad. Hope they like the taste of roaches. Investment is not for the ignorant.
Good comment.
Realtors and builders had a choice. Try to keep prices within historical norms and have 20 years of stable employment and growth, or try to fuel the bubble and have 10 fat years followed by 10 lean years. They went for the 10 fat years. Why the bitching? As real estate “professionals” they understood the consequences of their actions and that collapse could be the only end result of above normal appreciation without corresponding wage inflation didnt they? They saved all those above normal profits during the fat years didnt they?
A lot of these projects are years in the pipeline. Stuff being built now was first conceived in the early part of the decade when prices and demand were still rising.
And once beyond the early development stage, the least-worst financial prospect is usually to complete a project.
We’re going to see a lot more ’suicide supply’ dumping onto the market in the next couple of years.
“Camarillo contractor Mark Varnum prefers the more competitive market. Customers have more selection and can make smarter choices, and it ‘weeds out the idiots in this business.’”
There’s more selection, but many of the options are still bad based on pricing and other factors. What does more selection have to do with making smarter choices? Whether there’s one piece of poisoned fruit or 10 pieces of poisoned fruit, not eating any of it is still the smart choice.
From a Bloomberg article today…
After the hedge fund industry had its worst start in nearly two decades, some managers said they are eager to load up on discounted debt and bonds. Altman reckons more than 200 funds have raised as much as $400 billion for distressed investing in the U.S., with a similar amount raised outside of the U.S.
“There’s a Chinese proverb, where there’s disaster there’s an opportunity,” said Boyazny of Siguler Guff.
There’s another Chinese proverb that says “Where there’s a shitty, the devil ain’t far behind.” This jives with what Martin Luther, of Protestant fame, said in a sermon “You are the excrement which fell on the earth through the Devil’s anus.” I wonder what kind words Mr. Luther would have for discounted debt and bonds. I’m thinking it would have do with the Devil’s vomit.
now, if we could only get these clowns to buy our national debt!
Preferably in foreign exchange or PM!
lol
“‘The air is definitely different,’ he said.”
Could that be the smell of impending doom?
It’s the Bay Area, where you can’t help but smell the unmistakable whiff of smug.
The air is definitely different in California . . . . yes, it’s BROILING here today!! I must stay in the shade of HBB and cool off . . .
We had about 15 minutes of rain here in Palmdale around 1pm local. Instant sauna!
Currently 101 degrees F.
Friend in Morro Bay is telling me it’s 100 degrees there. Almost unheard of. Caused me to brag that today’s (sunny) high in my part of Maine was under 80.
The collapse of the housing market has convinced Stephanie Hamett, an Oakley resident, to abandon her career in the mortgage industry. She worked in the mortgage sector for four years.”
“Hamett is skeptical that housing will rebound any time soon. ‘This is worse than we all thought it would be and it’s probably going to deteriorate even more,’ Hamett said of the housing market. ‘It’s a bigger mess than people imagine.’
And to think it only took Hannett getting knocked out by “Foreclosure King” Evander Holyfield 5 times to get it that he can really hit hard. Oh, the wonder.
I think all the news reports of unemployment in CA are really understating the picture. I’m now seeing so many moms suddenly need to “work” at my kids’ private school to make up for tuition they now can’t pay because they’re husbands are low on work.
Yuppies I know in my part of town (West LA/SM/Venice) are having a really hard time because so many of them are in the high end architectural/design/real estate fields, or unessential jobs like yoga instructors, pilates coaches, etc. that apparently depended on the bubble.
There are so many furniture stores here that are out of business, not to mention jewelry stores, cosmetics stores, I’ve followed this blog for years, but even I’m surprised at how many peripheral people and businesses this is affecting.
Even plastic surgeons are hurting.
Anyway, a lot of these people seem to be self-employed or in business for themselves, so I don’t think the newspaper reporting is really conveying the carnage.
>> “‘I’ve studied this economy since 1964 … never, in 44 years, have we had a year where we averaged a net loss,’ said Inland economist John Husing. ‘That is unprecedented. That has never happened before.’”
Take comfort in knowing that no matter how bad it gets, unemployment will always be at 5.6%.
You mean kinda like how inflation has been at 3% for the last 10 years?