Bits Bucket For June 29, 2008
Please post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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From Slate:
The Mortgage Crisis Hits Plastic Surgeons in the Boobs
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/humannature/default.aspx
I heard Winnebago sales were off by 38dd%
I heard that also, and they are idling a plant and giving some of the work force some unpaid vacation time.
dude, not those kind.
Did you mean bodacious Winnebagos?
Watermelons keep increasing, due to inflationary causes.
Lad, come out to Green River, Utah,watermelon heaven (not FOR the melons, for the melon EATERS…)
Rumor is the melons are a subspecies - best I’ve ever had. Buy one on your way to the desert, hike all day, break it open - ahhhhh…you can’t get the smile (or seeds) off your face.
Watermelons have been great this summer — very juicy! (Not those kind…)
Lost,
I’ve had your delicious watermelons, and can vouch for their sweetness…
Backpacking in a watermelon is a guilty pleasure, but not as guilty as carrying a Grolsch mini-keg to somewhere special on a trip with friends, and somehow not act as if your pack weighs 20 pounds more than it should, until you pull it out of your pack, when you reach your destination.
I’m sure Lost has the sweetest watermelons (and I’m sure you’ve tasted them.)
Brrrrmmm, brrrrmmm, brrrrmmm.
“I heard Winnebago sales were off by 38dd%”
There was a full-page ad in the Friday paper for a motorhome multi-dealership liquidation. This guy Dan Gamel in the Central CA valley is dumping everthing, or at least, trying to.
DOC
It funny, because I just had some work done! No, not a boob job, it was scar revision.
I was amazed how quickly the surgeon was able to schedule an appointment. Basically, it’s: “OK, come back next week and we’ll do it.”
And then, he suggested a “face lift” too (in the name of reducing the appearance of scars). I passed on that one!
(And for those of you who like gory photos, here’s a picture right after surgery, bloody sutures and all)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1181/1438388965_fc608544af.jpg
(It’s also interesting/sad seeing young girls in the waiting room with huge new boobs accompanied by their moms!)
And even WORSE theyre are more and more job ads on CL for you to send in a photo….
And for TXchcik: even at a Law Firms……is that a lawsuit waiting to happen?
Or can they claim BFOQ if they are a law firm for models & modeling agencies
nope. I flag those off.
Ouch, reuven!!
I hope you’re not in too much pain & wish you a speedy recovery!
OK, so the boob job market is tanking, but I suspect there’s going to be a lot of FB rectums that will be needing reconstructive surgery.
Miller: The life of a repo man is always intense.
That’s Deflation!
Here’s what my wife and have decided to build. We gave up on trying to find a house that suited us about two years ago. Now we are looking for a nice wooded lot of an acre or so.
Yep…. I know this is just a modern looking box, but due to that fact it requires no interior load bearing walls, so it will be very open with any walls being patrician. It’s just the two of us and our four legged ‘kids’, so we’ll have plenty of space at 1500 sq.ft.2bd/2ba The building cost will be right @ 52.00 per sq.ft. Plus garage… Very efficient.
http://www.rocioromero.com/
I like the look of it for the right lot. Would make a great “cabin” alternative on the water.
We would love to find a nice wooded lot on the Lake, but anything within a reasonable distance to town/work (15-20miles) is way out of our price range. Lots on our big lake start at $200,000.00 so we’ll try and get as close as possible.
Not my cup of tea aesthetically, but I can appreciate the virtues.
Kinda like the Scion xB–I want something more “normal” looking, but I understand why some people would gravitate toward it.
Agreed, but there is one additional benefit to such housing - it furthers the case for getting rid of the agents once and for all. Pick a piece of land, add this to your online shopping cart, and not have to ever deal with someone’s agent trying to unload their “dream” house on you again.
I don’t know if that’s really the case. If you’re going to build a house, you can buy lots of land right now and construct a house. At $52/sqft, that’s probably 25-50% less than a conventional house. But you would still have to hire a contractor, etc. It might require less oversight than a conventional home construction, but it’s not going to be “plug-and-play” or whatever.
Speaking about gettting rid of agents, what is the best way to see houses for sale that you may be interested in when you’re not planning on using a realtor? Should you contact the listing agent and ask for a showing, making it perfectly clear you will not be using an agent but, rather, just an attorney? I think all sellers’ agents should have to show homes (rather than the lockbox for all to use). THAT would be working for their commission.
If its already listed, before you have them show it to you, say I’d rather not have to bring another agent in with whom you have to split the commission, and agree to have them accept a total commission of 3.5% or 4% for the entire transaction. Usually each side gets around 3%. Also you can often get another haircut on the back-end to close the deal. I always say something like looks like we are only 1% from closing the transaction, would the Realtor be willing to take that off the commission to get this thing done. You wont be making any friends, but they were never your friend to begin with.
Also, I have bought several houses by knocking on the door or writting a note to the homeowners if there is a particular house (or neighborhood) you have your eye on. I usually get a 7% response rate to letters or notes, with 2-3% willing to do a deal that works. It’s work, but pays off, especially if we are in a bad market.
That’s what I plan to start doing around the start of 2009. There’s some inventory starting to come on the market that might be shakeable down to what I’d be willing to pay if it sits untouched for 6 months. With internet listing of almost everything and the slow pace of actual sales, I can’t possibly imagine a realtor blowing off a potential buyer, particularly if I made it abundantly clear at the outset that I’m motivated and equipped with a substantial downpayment that should make approval of any loan a complete no-brainer.
Of course, they won’t have to know at the outset that any offer I make would almost certainly be at a substantial discount from the fantasyland wishing price, but someone’s got to start spreading the love.
I would think that listing agents would embrace your plan since they get to keep both sides of the commission when a house is sold to an unrepresented buyer (I don’t think an attorney can collect the other side of the listing fee?). You certainly aren’t saving the seller, or ultimately yourself, anything by going this route. Can anyone a bit more informed than I comment on this?
Im not sure what you mean. By throwing them a 0.5% bone and cutting 2.5% of the total Realtor commission, that’s another 2.5% the seller can throw the buyer’s way to get the deal done. When I see a sales sign and im not represented I always know there is at least 2% off the listing for me, and that’s before I begin to negotiate with the seller.
Hey Tim, I made the comment before the others showed up, including yours. Unfortunately it is sequenced to look like I was doubting your plan. Your idea is exactly how to go about using the listing realtor’s greed to get a lower price. Duel agency rules would also support the idea of an attorney for the close. My earlier comment was just to remind the poster that using an attorney doesn’t reduce the commission the seller pays, just negotiation with the realtor/broker does that, in my limited understanding of the rules.
I would guess that a lot of homes that are “for rent” may be “for sale” too. You may want to look at rentals in the area and make offers on them. This way, no R-E agent has her hands on it yet. Just be sure to hire a lawyer. If you can convince the other side to do the same, you’ll have the house sold for $3000 in legal fees or so….
I love it!
I thought you might.
and another big vote for the design from the Netherlands. It looks far better than 95% of the local construction in my area.
Now if only we can get the Chinese into building this stuff and shipping to the Netherlands … then we only have the remaining problem of Dutch land prices and the Baltic freight index …
Some time ago I studied the pricelist for such a prefab home (not sure if it was this one) and got the impression that the actual ‘parts’ cost is a minor part of the deal, despite the fact that they are using good quality parts. Land cost, transport to the site, construction/management, mandatory fees for connection to utilities (even if you make the home self-sustainable) etc. add up to a bill that is often much higher than the cost of the prefab home itself.
You might be closer to reality than you think.
I read somewhere that instead of sending empty shipping containers back to China, they get cut up and melted into raw steel.
Why not make them into houses instead?
yes, this is happening on a small scale; e.g., we have student housing in Netherlands based on containers (don’t know if these are recycled containers though). It might be a good idea for temporary, very basic housing solutions, but for the average homeowner, this stuff is simply not flexible and attractive enough.
but well, maybe the Chinese can invent a more flexible type of container that can have a better second life in the US/EU housing market
It looks great if living in a gas station mini-mart is your cup o’ tea.
Not an attack..But good luck when you decide to try to sell it…
Very interesting. I like the simple lines.
cool, will they alow that in the peoples republic of MA ?
A very similar metal (steel, aluminum?) prefab was built in the 50s, some are still around. Look almost identical. Wish I could find a link, but can’t recall the manufacturer, there’s a group that has a web sit about them. I saw them in the book “Little House for a Small Planet.”
style looks a bit like some Case Study Houses to me, same period but those were bigger I think? I think the style is partly modern and partly retro, that is what I like about it (a bit like an Audi TT etc.).
Love all the light and the open plan - but the outside looks too much like my elementary (primary) school for me to be comfortable with it.
I hated school
Still, thanks for the link - if I’m ever in a position to build my own (once land in L.A gets below $100k an acre) it will be worth keeping all these links to see what can be done..
Soulless and sterile. Ugh.
That is a classAAA roof system. Don’t cheap out and go with a stone ballast roof or built up bitumastic. Stick with the Firestone fully adhered rubber. We specified one for a heavy highway facility a few years ago and it is *some nice roof system*. You will pay out the ying yang for it but it is well worth it.
Also, you might consider looking into an alternate wall system for better insulation. Steel sandwich panels are kick ass systems and are completely inert (won’t burn).
You can do $52.00 per sq/ft on a conventional cbs/solid poured concrete home quite easily in Fl if you subcontract out yourself and present the plans to the County as owner-builder.
Not for the faint of heart.
I like the look you hare going there. Are you going to keep a blog of your building experience?
Are you building the kit yourself or are you getting contractors?
Oliver
One thing though. It has a flat roof. And it doesn’t matter what anyone says eventually sooner or later those things leak. I owned a house that only a small add-on portion was flat and it caused nothing but trouble. I only found one person who could adequately maintain it (his fees were astronomical) and even he recommended replacing it with a new roof with a slanted pitch. I finally sold the place rather than deal with its problems any more.
I categorize those with houses that have swimming pools. These are a turn-off (to me) as I’ve also had one - a beautiful pool that was sheer drudgery to maintain (and the pool cleaning people were worse than useless IMO). That was enough for a life-time.
I agree on the pool. I’d fill it in if I bought a place with one. Flat roofs leak prematurely because they don’t have scupper drains. Also, flat roofs, if properly specified and installed, will always pitch to scuppers. I’ll concede that built up bitumastics plain old suck. Firestone guarantees a leak free system for 20 years if installed by an approved roofer. They offer such a warranty because their fully adhered system works like no tomorrow. Also, you’ll offset your roof cost through use of less structural material on a flat roof (no trusses, rafters)….. basically a second floor deck in a wrapper.
Thanks for the link.
Some happenings in the Rochester area:
1. I have a family friend whose parents just built a 1mil retirement home in the middle of nowhere. They’re on septic and well.
2. Victor is crazy - lots of new homes. I have friends and a family member that moved there. The “Great Schools” meme has been hamburgled from Pittsford by Victor. High gas will hammer that coffin shut.
3. Retirees are downsizing to Fairport to get in on Fairport electric and the flush supply of townhomes.
4. Trapped in the city
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/news/articles/INNER+CITY%3A+No+way+out+/
5. I have friends debating getting into flipping homes in the city.
million dollar shack in rottenchester is like putting a suit on a pig.
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2008/06/28/bank_real_estate.html
I see mergers in the future…
As Bill Evolves, Mortgage Debt Is Snowballing :
http://tinyurl.com/53dgnw
“While the proposed program would help some homeowners, analysts say it would touch only a small fraction of those in trouble — the Congressional Budget Office estimates it would be used by 400,000 borrowers — and would do little to bolster the housing market.”
“It’s not enough, even in the best of circumstances,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Economy.com. The number of people who will be helped “is going to be overwhelmed by the three million that are headed toward default.”
“To take part in the proposed program, lenders would have to lower each debt obligation to 85 percent of the home’s current value. Borrowers would stay in their homes but would have to pay a 1.5 percent annual insurance premium. If homes’ values grow and borrowers sell or refinance, they would have to share the gain with the government.”
With these terms, wouldn’t it just be better to walk away?
“There is a precedent for such government endeavors, but not since the New Deal. In the 1930s, the government created the Home Owners Loan Corporation to buy mortgages and modify them. In three years, it bought a fifth of the country’s home loans, said Alex J. Pollock, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.”
“We won’t need to do anything of that magnitude here,” he said.
If he’s saying that because he doesn’t think the problem’s going to be that big or big enough, he may be proven wrong.
SnowballingAvalanchingbetter
Can’t use that term. That implies that some government agency should have been watching the snow pack and letting the pressure out occasionally in a controlled way…
Isn’t that exactly what the Fed has been trying to do?
Different article, same topic. http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/167573
Washington is nearing a compromise on legislation to staunch the nationwide housing foreclosure hemorrhage, and skeptics are crying foul:
Why help homebuyers who foolishly overextended themselves? Even more, why help the banks that encouraged the buyers with soft promises of adjustable rate mortgages that could always be refinanced before they go up? Ha.
The disgust is understandable because it is well earned.
Yet, in the face of the sharpest housing slump since the Great Depression, Congress is compelled to act.
Any hint of a bailout will be galling to homeowners who chose to plod the safe path of fixed-rate mortgages and the slow, careful buildup of equity in their homes. The compromise the Senate is crafting, though, falls somewhere between a federal bailout and letting the market sort itself out.
Lawmakers are still working out the details, but the broad basis of the Senate’s plan seems likely to survive when the House and Senate reconcile their bills:
* The Federal Housing Administration would guarantee new, more affordable, 30-year fixed-rate loans to homeowners facing default, leaving taxpayers to assume the risk.
* Lenders would have to cut the principal balance of loans at risk of default to about 85 percent of a home’s current value — taking a substantial loss, but probably less than on a foreclosure.
* Homeowners wouldn’t automatically qualify. First, their lenders would have to agree. Then borrowers would have to show they had enough income and creditworthiness to afford the new loans. They also would have to pay a hefty fee.
* Only borrowers trying to stay in their primary home would be eligible.
If troubled borrowers and lenders participate in high enough numbers, the payoff for taxpayers would be the stabilizing effect on an economy being battered by, among other things, a national housing market sinking under 8,000 foreclosures a day.
The legislation also includes provisions to avert future crises.
“The legislation also includes provisions to
avertencourage future crises.”Its much ado about nothing.
I would love to see the play Shakespeare would write about the government bail out. It would have to be a comedy.
A mid summers night bail out.
Much Ado about my heloc.
Merry wives of senators.
Loves day labor picked up by ICE.
Shakespeare did have some choice words about going into debt. Perhaps Wall Street investment bankers should take some time off and go see a production of Hamlet.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be, for loan often loses both itself and friend, and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
“and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry”
that’s why they give free Penthouses to the guys who go to the open houses of the “sexy view” condo towers in FL?
San Jose, not FL.
Mozello
How the hell will they be able to implement this monster?
“The effectiveness of the bill will depend to some extent on how it is handled by the F.H.A., an agency created during the Great Depression to insure home loans. It will have several challenges: persuading the lenders who made second mortgages and home equity loans to cooperate; screening loans to make sure borrowers have a good shot at keeping their homes after refinancing; and weeding out those trying to take advantage of the system.
Second mortgages and home equity loans were popular during the housing boom and often allowed Americans to buy a home with little or no money down or let them take out cash against their homes as prices rose. Now, home values have fallen so much that there is little or nothing left to pay off these loans when homes are sold or repossessed. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that about 40 percent of riskier mortgages made in recent years are coupled with such secondary loans.
Under the Congressional plan, these loans would have to be eliminated before homes could be refinanced. People who negotiate loan modifications say holders of second loans have been reluctant to take losses, and lenders with first loans are often unwilling to give them enough money to secure their cooperation. Under the Senate version of the plan, the F.H.A. would have some leeway in negotiating with borrowers who have second loans.
Another challenge for the F.H.A. would be selecting borrowers who have the best chance of paying off new loans. The agency would have to make sure lenders are not unloading only their worst loans, and lenders and the F.H.A. would have to guard against borrowers who can pay their current loans but would like a cheaper, government-backed loan.”
Rest assured, the 300 billion will find its way into the coffers of the lenders, and into the wallets of the companys’ executive teams.
Love and Hate…
“I have been thanklessly laboring at this task of getting the Earth admitted to the Federation of Planets ever since I took the stupid job on this stupid planet after my parents accidentally crashed our flying saucer in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947″.
“In case you were wondering, the crash was caused by mom and dad arguing. My dad was yelling that earthlings are the stupidest morons in the entire galaxy, and mom was (like my own wife, family and coworkers) disagreeing with him just to disagree and be disagreeable, hateful and deliberately argumentative. Anyway, the argument escalated, something happened, and we crashed”.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JF28Dj02.html
MCcain’s A Tax Scofflaw…
Newsweek is set to publish a highly embarrassing report on Sen. John McCain, revealing that the McCains have failed to pay taxes on their beach-front condo in La Jolla, California, for the last four years and are currently in default.
Under California law, once a residential property is in default for five years, it can be sold at a tax sale to recover the unpaid taxes for the taxpayers.
The McCains own at least seven homes through a variety of trusts and corporations controlled by Cindy McCain.
UPDATE: Newsweek’s story is now online. The report notes that the McCains paid the bulk of their back taxes yesterday, but continue to owe additional taxes:
When you’re poor, it can be hard to pay the bills. When you’re rich, it’s hard to keep track of all the bills that need paying. It’s a lesson Cindy McCain learned the hard way when NEWSWEEK raised questions about an overdue property-tax bill on a La Jolla, Calif., property owned by a trust that she oversees. Mrs. McCain is a beer heiress with an estimated $100 million fortune and, along with her husband, she owns at least seven properties, including condos in California and Arizona. [...]
Shortly after NEWSWEEK inquired about the matter, the McCain aide e-mailed a receipt dated Friday, June 27, confirming payment by the trust to San Diego County in the amount of $6,744.42. County officials say the trust still owes an additional $1,742 for this year, an amount that is overdue and will go into default July 1. Told of the outstanding $1,742, the aide said: “The trust has paid all bills shown owing as of today and will pay all other bills due.”
Posted late last night.
LOL, as if some flunky’s failure to pay that bill is a pimple on the a$$ of this one.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/?page=full
Rezko, Is bound to keep coming up, BHO can’t shake him, it goes a bit deeper(IMHO)than some nut case standing at the pulpit screaming God Damn America at the top of his lungs.
True, but which is more damaging. IMO, the nut case standing at the pulpit has caused considerable damage while Rezko deal is just another example of a politician taking special favors. It happens so often who really expects anything else, especially in Illinois.
How about Charles Keating?
I think that people who are running for the highest office in the land should tell at least one flunky to do a review of their bills (fairly early in the process) to make sure there isn’t anything messed up. Then again, I think US sentors should do the same thing on a continueing basis.
I’m sure said flunky is now out of a job.
Sounds like they just didn’t bother to assign a flunky to do it.
Typical conservative duplicity. If an ordinary person doesn’t pay their tax bills then the process to take the property away begins. For a California property like this there is a period of at least six months grace, but not necessarily more than that. McCain was allowed to pile up multiple years of bills because of his position.
Contrast that with the Chicago public housing problem which is difficult at all levels. Those people have to go somewhere, existing public housing and most available properties are in a sad state and there is not enough money. Failure to turn Chicago public housing around is a little bit different than not bothering to pay one’s personal obligations.
If Obama were personally responsible for all aspects of these projects or if there were simple and there were a known formula for success, then maybe taking him to task for the whole mess would make sense. This situation is a lot more complex than that, though. How to turn public housing around is an open question nationally, and it is only in the last few years that a consensus has started for form around rebuilding public housings with a mix of market rate units.
Regarding some of the specifics of these complex failures that Obama is being blamed for: The margin of error at Sedgwick was a little too close to begin with. Which wasn’t necessarily clear beyond the level of the involved contractors. … as late as 2003, a routine federal inspection still gave conditions at Grove Parc a score of 82 on a 100-point scale. So, the Feds say everything is golden, but Obama is supposed to ignore the results of inspections and do his own? How again is failing to do supplemental inspections of public housing programs like not paying taxes on your own properties for a few years?
And because Obama dared to get involved in the ongoing mess that is Chicago public housing and failed to fix it all we should damn him and instead vote for someone who consistently predicts victory in Iraq. At least Obama was willing to try something new rather than simply wallow in failure.
What, now McCain’s a conservative?
LOL, as if some flunky’s failure to pay that bill is a pimple on the a$$ of this one.
PPOs [Public-Private Partnerships] are a scam right up there with ethanol, private security contractors, and carbon credits. Watch your wallet when people like Bloomberg [touted as a VP for McCain] start pushing these in the name of cost savings. What a racket.
I’m sure Cindy does it w a pencil and paper
I plan to be seduced by FREE-er healthcare, but will explain to those under 30 that they will pay for my flabby ass 100% just due to age.cost difference
Or maybe this. The chart can’t be replicated here but it is on the site and shows the Messiah as no. 3 on the list of recipients of Countrywide contributions.
Countrywide Owns Obama »
By Larry JohnsoncloseAuthor: Larry Johnson Name: Larry Johnson
Email: larry_johnson@earthlink.net
Site: http://NoQuarterUSA.net
This is the kind of “new” politician Barack Obama represents–he has collected more money from Countrywide Financial in the last four years than any other member of Congress and, in exchange, sponsored legislation favorable to Countrywide. Got that?
Here’s the evidence:
Note that this chart covers money received since 1989 and Mr. Obama has only been in the Congress since 2004. What a money grubbing hypocrite. Obama has raked it in faster than any member of Congress. And, surprise of all surprises, Barack joined Senator Chris Dodd in co-sponsoring a housing relief bill that encouraged lenders to refinance and stabilize existing mortgages. Of course, said lenders make money off of the refinancing loans.
Maybe Barack can do for American homeowners what he has done for the poor folks living in squalid apartment buildings in Chicago.
“Maybe Barack can do for American homeowners what he has done for the poor folks living in squalid apartment buildings in Chicago”.
What amazes me is that so many dupes think this wind bag is ‘different’ and is going to ‘change’ things.Oh he’ll change things alright, but it won’t be for the better. One thing that is fairly consistent is that you should not trust a politician. I am naturally suspicious of that breed, don’t care which side their on. I am still going to waste my vote by writing in Ron Paul.
Here is an uplifting report on how the do-gooders are helping us all out by moving section 8’s into our neighborhoods.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/memphis-crime
I pass through Memphis quite often. It’s just as the article describes. I wouldn’t stop for a minute in most of the city proper - most residents won’t either. If it weren’t for the heavy police presence on Beale and along the river, no tourist in their right mind would go there.
The illegal drug trade is the biggest reason for the ongoing troubles in inner cities.
The implicit alternative is that instead of attempting to house the desperate we should just let them fend for themselves and that will result in a more just society with less crime. Even if that were interesting at some level, there is no realistic way for acheiving that politically. So people stand around waiting for Godot while things get worse.
The people living in inner cities are the biggest problem facing inner cities.
They are making their choices.
Why aren’t people in other environments as adversely effected?
Could also argue that economic model for cities isn’t good as well but that is just obvious. Also the socialistic policies enacted by many cities is a mess. You can’t do that on local levels because business will relocate… kind of like business relocating out of the country on a national level.
This happened in Atlanta just before the ‘96 Olympics. (Didn’t want the rest of the world to see what lived Downtown). Now those that qualify are given Section 8 vouchers so that they can live anywhere . This policy has totally ruined all of the Apartment complexes in the Atlanta area. It has also ruined a lot of lower middle class neighborhoods, because SFR landlords can accept Section 8 vouchers. The City of Atlanta is now in the process of tearing down 3 of the biggest remaining housing projects to replace them with mixed use developments–increasing their tax base while spreading the crime to formerly nice areas.
Well, in a perfect world I could choose to live in a place with like minded (and by that I mean other families that give a ratfuck about being good parents and disciplining their kids when they step out of line) folks who respect each other and their property without having some slacker with 6 unsupervised kids moving in down the street screwing up my family’s safety and ambiance. All of this courtesy of some tithead beauracrat who doesn’t have to live with the consequences of his high minded ideas and paid for courtesy of my tax dollars . I don’t care about their skin color, their religion or who they want to have sex with (as long as it isn’t my kid), I just ask that they be accountable, respectful and don’t have kids if they don’t want to fully supervise them.
So, instead of having the problems (murder/rape, etc) largely contained within the community that is birthing these frackin mutant low-brow gun-slingers, they (gov’t) chose to spread the wealth around to the folks who were being responsible citizens (and paying taxes) without thought of what was actually best for THOSE people. F-that plan. All imo.
That was an excellent article, auger.
Very much in line with what we saw in So Cal in the 90s. People left the ghetto to move to nicer neighborhoods, not realizing the ghetto was sitting in the back seat of their cars.
People need to take responsibility for themselves and their children. The solution is to **fix** the problem within the community. Moving the problems around to different locations isn’t going to solve a f***ing thing.
“I am still going to waste my vote by writing in Ron Paul”
that is exactly what i am going to do!
Exactly, my plan of action too!
Yes, because we all have to face ourselves in the mirror each morning. So, it’s either scribble in RP or grow a mighty long beard.
Ditto!
I am still going to waste my vote by writing in Ron Paul.
Right on - me too. If if John McCrazy loses by the margin of write-in votes that goes to Ron Paul, I’d be delighted. I for one have had enough of the neo-cons’ imperial hubris and Wall Street swindles.
Don’t worry txchick, I won’t be voting for the gun-grabbing Messiah. However, McSame isn’t getting my vote either.
BHO is just another POS politician.
McCain belongs in this group as well.
I’m writing in Ron Paul.
Mike
Quoting Larry Johnson is not going to help your credibility.
This is really a non-story, IMHO. And I say that as someone who has no great love for McCain.
Obviously the tax bill was mishandled by the trust. Is that Cindy’s responsibility? Sure, but it wasn’t deliberate tax avoidance. Some on the left are going to try to equate this to Congresswoman Richardson’s NODs and foreclosure, but the two aren’t in the same league IMHO. The McCain trust had the money on hand and there’s no evidence that the tardy taxes were intentional, just carelessness by one of Cindy’s bookkeepers.
Really not worth our attention.
IOKIYAR.
(It’s OK if you’re a Republican).
Get used to the double standard.
Did you know Barack Obama is responsible for anything a Democrat or a black person has ever said or done?
Interesting. So McCain, who opposed the 2001 Bush tax cuts owes back taxes.
In 2001 I sent a letter to McCain’s office asking him to support the Bush Tax cuts. His office sent me back a letter and some articles from a left wing think tank that was all class warfare. Yes, McCain fell into Marxism. I never trusted him since.
Bob Barr for President. Libertarian Party, spending limited to defense, justice, and administration expenses of federal government and substantial permanent tax cuts.
I’d consider voting for a Libertarian. But Bob Barr isn’t a Libertarian.
Too bad Ron Paul didn’t jump ship from the GOP.
I’m voting for Ron anyway, as a write-in.
Now this is a fine point and not meant to be critical, but I believe Barr is a Libertarian, having registered with the party in order to run, but he is not a true libertarian. The generally accepted differentiation is that the capital denotes the party and the lower case denotes the philosophy.
That’s what I meant–he’s not a true libertarian. The guy voted for the PATRIOT Act and the Iraq War Resolution, both which should greatly offend every libertarian. After leaving Congress, he repudiated both positions, seemingly as a political calculation aimed at getting the LP nomination.
Throughout his Congressional career, he was an ardent supporter on the war on drugs, even medicinal marijuana. After he lost his seat, he totally reversed himself on the issue (actually lobbied for the Marijuana Policy Project!), yet another instance of seeking to rehabilitate his libertarian credentials. On other less important issues, he was also an outspoken opponent to gay marriage on religious grounds and against military Wiccans being memorialized on tombstones. And he was one of the biggest proponents for impeaching Clinton.
Kind of tangentially related but if anyone here does the letter writing/email your congressman type thingy, now would be a good time to do so.
H-362 is coming up for a vote and will pretty much seal the deal on a war in Iran if it passes. I doubt any letter writing campaign will help because even Pelosi seems to want another war (she took the clause requiring a vote by congress to go to war (sound familiar?) out of a recent bill).
Anywho, that’s what is coming up soon and the war drums are getting louder. Here’s the background scoop.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/wallenwein062808.html
NOTE: disregard the offensive pro-gold nature of the comments at the end
I’m taking to the streets if the US attacks Iran.
Alex: There was me, that is Alex, and my three droogs, that is Pete, Georgie, and Dim, and we sat in the Korova Milkbar trying to make up our rassoodocks what to do with the evening. The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
Clockwork Orange?
I don’t get the Mozilo reference?
Ever read any of Tom Sharpe’s novels? They’re very funny, subversive, and over-the-top.
I was trying to summarize a subplot of one here - but I can’t.
Highly recommended, anyway.
The USA is not going to attack Iran were going to push Israel into it. Then back them up.
George Washington was right “Stay out of foreign entanglements”. We are screwed as a nation.
Speaking of Ron here’s his thoughts about McSame:
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS183560+07-Jan-2008+BW20080107
McSame = Busch Lite = 100 years in Iraq = Islamic Nations converted to Christians = US Policy success = Cheney-Shrub: “See we we’re right! Mission Accomplished! ” = Condi Rice / Jeb Shrub Jr. for President / VP in 2012 = Rush Limpbaugh guaranteed lifetime supply of Viagra.
Blah, blah, blah: This is what we are still left with:
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/04/23/image613312x.jpg
I agree with what some of you say about Bob Barr. Yes he is a member of the Libertarian Party. I’d say he is 90% libertarian (lower case “l”). He’s the best we’ve got. I would prefer the likes of Harry Browne (now deceased). Barr’s view on abortion, for example, is not my position and probably not the same position as the LP platform’s.
We have a trend in all political parties big or small now. The people bubbling up to the top are the ones that the bigwigs think can win the votes from the general middle of the road, rather than care about the philosophy of the party. The philosophy of the Republican party is economic freedom and social slavery. The philosophy of the Democrat party is economic slavery and social freedom. The philosophy of the Libertarian party is economic freedom and social freedom. The Libertarian party has joined this trend into watering down its principles to bring up someone it thinks can win.
Ron Paul is a nut. I said that for the past 3 years on here. I know, he was my Congressman for awhile when I lived in the Houston area. I did give him money because I support anyone who wants to abolish the IRS but he is a kook, make no mistake about it.
And you adore Fred Thompson, so what’s it all about, Alfie?
Why is he a Kook?
“Ron Paul is a nut. I said that for the past 3 years on here. I know, he was my Congressman for awhile when I lived in the Houston area. I did give him money because I support anyone who wants to abolish the IRS but he is a kook, make no mistake about it.”
Why is he a Kook? I also think I recall that you were a supporter, lukewarm at best, but a supporter. Why the change?
And why would you send money to a KOOK?
read through some of his old writings
Where can you order old Law and Order scripts?
What makes him a nut? I happen to like RP, and think he might be a little kooky, but at worst in an unharmful way.
In contrast to every pres we have had in my lifetime so far who is nutty in the evil, dangerous way.
You mean the newsletters with racist leanings that were written in his name? He has stated that he delegated the writing of newsletter to a staff member. but has taken responsibility for not watching what went out in his newsletter. They made a big deal because he wouldn’t name who did write it. It is kind of funny that McCain says he delegated the tax payments to someone else, and they didn’t do their job. I think that McCain should come clean on who exactly was supposed to pay taxes in his name. If he wont say I will have to assume that HE didn’t pay his taxes.
Law and Order candidate 1968: Richard Nixon
Law and Order candidate 2008: Fred Thompson
Nixon was a great American. My dad told me so.
That is the problem with women, they do what their menfolk=fathers,husbands etc tell them to think or who to vote for.
In a co, where the women are mostly sheeple, not unlike the men.
If you remember back to 2003, the Libertarian Party membership was about equally divided concerning support of the Iraq war. So it is certainly possible that Bob Barr’s can be forgiven for his vote, given that he now calls for an immediate withdrawal of the troops.
Ron Paul “jumping ship” from the Republicrats would be a case of the ship sailing from the drowning rat. Today’s GOP, hijacked by the neo-cons and Wall Street, has completely betrayed the traditional Republican base of the productive middle and working classes. Ron Paul doesn’t have to leave the GOP, since they left him, and us, years ago.
Once upon a time there was a political party in our country named “The Know-Nothings”.
We have the updated version of it in today’s Republican Party.
Extinction is a real likelihood, as only ’ssshrubery has it in his power to push Herbert Hoover’s stature upward, in his final months asleep @ the wheel.
I’m watching social conservative Laura Ingle admiring economic socialist Barack Obama because Obama is saying good things about religion. This is why I detest Republicans who think social slavery is far far more preferable to economic freedom. These same people pointed to the backwardness of the Taliban and how they treated women, yet want a severely strict Christian theocracy in the U.S.
They make me vomit.
If you remember back to 2003, the Libertarian Party membership was about equally divided concerning support of the Iraq war. So it is certainly possible that Bob Barr can be forgiven for his vote, given that he now calls for an immediate withdrawal of the troops.
I dont know all the details but it sounds like a red herring. For such allegations to have any value at all you would have to show that he was one responsible for paying the taxes, and he failed to do so with questionable intent. I dont see that in the materials you presented. Not even a hint of questionable motive.
I am in a pickle though because I am an economic conservative but social liberal, so I really have no choice. Plus Obama wants to tax the hell out of me and give it to ppl that deserve it less. What a mess this Country is in.
of course there is no intent. This is what passes for “investigative” reporting among the messiah’s minyans.
Now here’s a really funny one.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/us/politics/29hussein.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1214745976-dx282S3lslZbE51l2uF/7Q
the young lady on the left doesn’t look like she consumes much arugula.
I know ppl will probably attack me for this, but I hate to see the youth involved in politics. Even the 20 somethings in my office are clueless. If you ever question them on issues such as health care, social security, crime, economics, taxes, etc., etc. you get a lot of white noise and idealism but nothing substantive or helpful, and that’s coming from a liberal. They dont have enough experience to be jaded, critical thinkers. They are easy to control and don’t understand when they are being used.
Critical thinking is not a skill dependent on age. There are plenty of Boomers (and older) who are equally clueless.
I’d be in favor of requiring ALL voters to pass a basic citizenship test before being allowed to vote (or receive a college degree), similar to what the INS administers in which all the possible answers are known beforehand.
Here are the questions that will be selected from the redesigned exam:
A. Principles of American Democracy
1. What is the supreme law of the land?
2. What does the Constitution do?
3. The idea of self-government is in the first three words of the Constitution. What are these words?
4. What is an amendment?
5. What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution?
6. What is one right or freedom from the First Amendment?
7. How many amendments does the Constitution have?
8. What did the Declaration of Independence do?
9. What are two rights in the Declaration of Independence?
10. What is freedom of religion?
11. What is the economic system in the United States?
12. What is the “rule of law”?
13. Name one branch or part of the government.
14. What stops one branch of government from becoming too powerful?
15. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
16. Who makes federal laws?
17. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
18. How many U.S. Senators are there?
19. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
20. Who is one of your state’s U.S. Senators?
21. The House of Representatives has how many voting members?
22. We elect a U.S. Representative for how many years?
23. Name your U.S. Representative.
24. Who does a U.S. Senator represent?
25. Why do some states have more Representatives than other states?
26. We elect a President for how many years?
27. In what month do we vote for President?
28. What is the name of the President of the United States now?
29. What is the name of the Vice President of the United States now?
30. If the President can no longer serve, who becomes President?
31. If both the President and the Vice President can no longer serve, who becomes President?
32. Who is the Commander in Chief of the military?
33. Who signs bills to become laws?
34. Who vetoes bills?
35. What does the President’s Cabinet do?
36. What are two Cabinet-level positions?
37. What does the judicial branch do?
38. What is the highest court in the United States?
39. How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
40. Who is the Chief Justice of the United States?
41. Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the federal government. What is one power of the federal government?
42. Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the states. What is one power of the states?
43. Who is the Governor of your state?
44. What is the capital of your state?
45. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
46. What is the political party of the President now?
47. What is the name of the Speaker of the House of Representatives now?
48. There are four amendments to the Constitution about who can vote. Describe one of them.
49. What is one responsibility that is only for United States citizens?
50. What are two rights only for United States citizens?
51. What are two rights of everyone living in the United States?
52. What do we show loyalty to when we say the Pledge of Allegiance?
53. What is one promise you make when you become a United States citizen?
54. How old do citizens have to be to vote for President?
55. What are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy?
56. When is the last day you can send in federal income tax forms?
57. When must all men register for the Selective Service?
58. What is one reason colonists came to America?
59. Who lived in America before the Europeans arrived?
60. What group of people was taken to America and sold as slaves?
61. Why did the colonists fight the British?
62. Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?
63. When was the Declaration of Independence adopted?
64. There were 13 original states. Name three.
65. What happened at the Constitutional Convention?
66. When was the Constitution written?
67. The Federalist Papers supported the passage of the U.S. Constitution. Name one of the writers.
68. What is one thing Benjamin Franklin is famous for?
69. Who is the “Father of Our Country”?
70. Who was the first President?
71. What territory did the United States buy from France in 1803?
72. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1800s.
73. Name the U.S. war between the North and the South.
74. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.
75. What was one important thing that Abraham Lincoln did?
76. What did the Emancipation Proclamation do?
77. What did Susan B. Anthony do?
78. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1900s.
79. Who was President during World War I?
80. Who was President during the Great Depression and World War II?
81. Who did the United States fight in World War II?
82. Before he was President, Eisenhower was a general. What war was he in?
83. During the Cold War, what was the main concern of the United States?
84. What movement tried to end racial discrimination?
85. What did Martin Luther King, Jr. do?
86. What major event happened on September 11, 2001 in the United States?
87. Name one American Indian tribe in the United States.
88. Name one of the two longest rivers in the United States.
89. What ocean is on the West Coast of the United States?
90. What ocean is on the East Coast of the United States?
91. Name one U.S. territory.
92. Name one state that borders Canada.
93. Name one state that borders Mexico.
94. What is the capital of the United States?
95. Where is the Statue of Liberty?
96. Why does the flag have 13 stripes?
97. Why does the flag have 50 stars?
98. What is the name of the national anthem?
99. When do we celebrate Independence Day?
100. Name two national U.S. holidays.
remember what you believed when you were 20 ?
scary
Only voters? Everyone seeking office ought to have to take that quiz.
Imagine some of the answers we’d get from our congressfolk!
“They don’t have enough experience to be jaded, critical thinkers. They are easy to control and don’t understand when they are being used.”
I understand your concerns, but I’d rather see more people actively involved in politics sooner, even if they occasionally make mistakes. Our failing political system isn’t like to get better through less participation.
I don’t think these younger voters could do much worse than some of the dreadful choices of today’s older voters. In my workplace, I find the younger workers far more aware of some of the bigger issues facing the country than some of my older coworkers. Perhaps being tied in less to MSM sources for information is a factor.
Someone must lead the sweeping changes that are needed. Perhaps today’s younger voters will be a meaningful part of that process should it occur.
I guess I should clarify. I love to see them interested as there is at least some glimmer of hope. I did not mean to say that I support apathy. It’s just painful that most are very lost and/or manipulated.
The real problem is that it just comes down two crappy choices. I dont think either choice in the next election is acceptable on any level. It has gone so far off track family members and sexual partners are thrown up. With the number of ppl in the US, if the ppl had any real influence at all how in the hell could that happen?
#11. Quasi Capitalism.
yours in markets,
scared shitless.
“remember what you believed when you were 20 ?
scary”
I do. It was a far better vision than what I’ve experienced as a result of the decisions of those whose supposedly superior experience and knowledge have led us to the brink of a second great depression.
Without an informed, engaged electorate, you can’t have a functional democracy. I’ll take my chances with younger voters that are trying to be informed and engaged in the political process.
But I just don’t see the difference between the “political IQ” or whatever of the average 25 year-old and the average 50 year-old.
I was doing good to fall out of bed and find my clothes when I was 20.
“But I just don’t see the difference between the “political IQ” or whatever of the average 25 year-old and the average 50 year-old.”
After many years of earning a living, paying taxes and the results thereof, seeing good times and bad times, people come and go, failed promises, good intentions go bad, inhumanity, fraudsters, con-men and Realtors, etc., etc. How can you not gain at least some wisdom during your life? That statement concerns me. I know it is not the case for me and those I know. I dont know anyone that thinks the same way at 40 they did at 25. Also I dont know anyone that thinks they were wiser at 25.
remember what you believed when you were 20 ?
scary
Interesting. When I was 20 my beliefs were all based on reason and are pretty much the same as they are now. Rigorous use of reason is quite different from one intense belief following the other like the little train that could.
The only thing that changed completely was my hope for increasing intellectual liberation. When I showed up at an elite midwestern university that accepts only the most talented applicants I thought there would be rarified debates about the future. Instead, one of the first things I encountered was an argument between two students about whether Carter or Reagan wanted to destroy everything more. Carter wanted to tax everyone to oblivion and Reagan wanted to nuke everyone into oblivion. Can’t you see, they kept shouting at each other. At that point I realized that moderate centrism was more of a mood thing–possibly genetic–and that there was little if any reason to expect that intellectual effort could help bring about the kind of lasting change that our country still needs today.
We’re discussing different two different dimensions–voter intelligence compared to another voter and voter intelligence compared to the same voter at a different age. In other words:
- Voter A at age 50 versus Voter B at age 50
- Voter A at age 25 versus Voter B at age 25
- Voter A at age 25 versus Voter A at age 50
- Voter A at age 25 versus Voter B at age 50
- Voter A at age 50 versus Voter B at age 25
- Voter B at age 25 versus Voter B at age 50
“Lack of responsibility” seems to be an immutable characteristic: an idiot at age 25 will be an idiot at age 50. Obviously, there are no shortage of 50+ year-old FB’s and Boomers completely unprepared for retirement. Their life experience did not save them from themselves. In fact, developmental psychologists have demonstrated that a toddler’s demonstrated ability for delayed gratification is the single most reliable indicator for future success (ie, an “idiot” at 3 will be an idiot for life).
In the above example, if Voter A has some advantage over Voter B, then it could be the case theoretically that they both improve as they age, but in every conceivable matchup Voter A possesses an absolute advantage. Should Voter A at age 25 be denied participation in the political process because Voter B at age 25 is an idiot or Voter A at age 50 will have a greater political IQ or whatever, as will Voter B (relative to himself at age 25)?
There appears to be lots of confusion. One gains, or should gain, wisdom not intelligence as they grow older. Also reason without knowledge, much of which is acquired with age, is a blunt instrument.
Whatever you want to call it, some people possess superior talent (in any of its forms) to others. Age may enrich one’s insights, but ultimately it can only be a marginal improvement above their starting points. There’s a bell curve on natural ability that is only modestly adjusted (in either direction) by age.
Both in their mismanagement of personal finances as well as poor choice of political leadership over the past 30 years, a large percentage of Baby Boomers have demonstrated a lack of IQ (political or otherwise). Meanwhile the empirical data on “Millenials” is far less conclusive (perhaps discouraging, but many are still under parental control). If we’re going to arbitrarily exclude an entire demographic group for the shortcomings of some in that subset, wouldn’t it make more sense to disenfranchise the generation that has inflicted the consequences of their financial irresponsibility onto their children and grandchildren?
How about if the young people are old enough to go fight a war and get injured, die or survive, they are old enough to vote.
I’m glad to see the young people of today taking an interest in politics.
“remember what you believed when you were 20 ?”
I sure do and it’s a scary thought. I believed;
1) Those poor corporations and Wall Street were oppressed. I know better now.
2) I believed women should be forced to carry a pregnancy full term regardless of circumstances.
3) I believed that the least among us really wanted to be poor. How foolish and idealistic.
4) I believed government had no obligation to it’s citizenry with the exception of law enforcement. Can you tell I was a real law and order chain’em to the ground mother#^er?
5) I believed law breakers should be “held accountable” with oppressive punishment, even for the most minor violations….. Very taliban-ish huh?
Yup, I was a good old fashioned young republican, born into a republican family who was a part of the local republican machine and office holders. Of course, life/reality/circumstances changed that insane idealistic view of *how things ought to be*. Imagine the nightmare of a govt. we’d have if me and my little lunatic nazi-like republican friends vision of how things ought to be became a reality.
Just remember - “Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty, murder…”
I have a Semitic/mid-eastern middle name: Avram (אברם). And I’m not ashamed to use it. In fact I’ll change my HBB name right now.
That’s why I’m surprised when people take offense when I say “Barack Hussein Obama”
I grew up with a very commie sounding middle name in the midst of the Cold War, talk about awkward…
It was my uncle I was named for, and the decision was a fait acCOMPli, as I had no voice in the matter.
Alad Vladimir Insane?
nyet!, COMPrad
“When you are skinning your customers, you should leave some skin on to heal, so that you can skin them again.”
Nikita Khrushchev
Igor?
LOL. The innocence of these young Obama cultists is touching, but their bovine stupidity just oozes forth from the picture. In some ways I hope Obama gets elected, just for the sheer glee of seeing his supporters’ astounding naiveity turn to bitter disillusionment.
As does the bovine stupidity of McInsane followers.
Face it they are all liars and thieves and yet, we spend to damn much money, time talking about these schmucks and do nothing via writing/calling their offices and growing huge groups to refute their inane and hurtful policies/bills.
the young lady on the left doesn’t look like she consumes much arugula.
— ????????????????? I’m just hoping you had more than a dig at her weight here as your point . . . .
For this old fart, this is the most interesting election in decades. The candidates for president of the US are both incredibly talented and competent. I will vote for Sen. Obama, but I could easily see Sen McCain as president. They are both good peoples.
Shirley, you jest!
I understand. You’re short and want to catch that huge selloff that will come after the election. Me too. But we’ll both be paying out the wazoo in taxes on it later.
I don’t know why you think that things will be different than they are now, just cause another prez will get into office.
Those taxes you are so afraid of, well if you are making so much money you guys, then the more you make the more you pay. To me, I would love to pay more taxes then inversely it would mean I was making alot more money. That I could easily live on that increasing income.
The wealthy that I have known, say, now maybe that is just their soapbox speech, they like paying more taxes cause it means they are making more money.
I predict that taxes will stay just about the same.
Congress will and the senate will never get past their own self interests and that means being reelected. So they will take monies,vacations, bribes etc and none of the tax bills will get passed.
I don’t think anything will change.
It will still be all for corporations, their ability to not pay taxes and the wealthiest who Know and have access to attorneys etc to make their problems go away.
The rest of America people be damned.
txchick doesn’t think inflation is a tax.
Deficits don’t matter.
My hussband shares the name of a well know fundamentalist Christian university. He was named for his grandfather.
forgot to add that we live about 10 miles from the school an in his homwtown
Poor John and Cindy! It’s so hard to keep track of 9 (or is it 10?) houses. Besides, taxes are for the little people! They have much more important things on their minds, like 100 year wars.
Welcome to Ben’s little cult, George.
Seriously, glad to see you posting!
Is George Salt a CO museum paleontologist by chance?
Ha - no, George is the one who said this was a little cult the other day (Bits Bucket, 26th).
I admit, having studied cults in anthropology, I had to give that some thought. I always like it when people make me think, or try, anyway.
I can’t see why little Utopias won’t exist in the future, the ease of technology allows for so few to do so much, compared to previous attempts of trying the same, over a century ago.
lost,
I saw that you told your new co-workers about HBB. I didn’t take into account the 2-6 month lurking period. Silly me.
No, your comment made perfect sense to me, given what I’d said about giving them the link. And believe me, these guys would jump right in.
(Hi guys!!)
Hi guys. Welcome to HBB, we need more paleontologists here.
Get ready to fall behind in your magazine reading, they’ll be piling up beside your chair…
McCain not paying his CA taxes makes me like him even more! I wish I could get away with that.
(I just got socked with a bill for additional $$$ for a California LLC. No state charges more than California.)
I should also add that Barney and Chris don’t plan on taxing the 500,000 people getting their cram-down on their reduction in principal. The Median Cramdown will be about $75,000. (Take the difference in median house price at peak vs today minus additional 15%)
That means that each Chris-Barney Bailout Beneficiary won’t have to pay $22,500 in taxes (75K * .30) that John McCain, you, and I will have to take up the slack for.
If some bank gave me $75,000 today, I’d have to pay income taxes on it. Why shouldn’t some specu-flipper?
This is such a non-story, I can’t even believe any cyber space is being wasted on it.
Lots of noise on this one. Of course, they’ve skipped paying the taxes for FOUR Years…if Obama had done that, the McCain freaks would be all over it.
And, the McCains are still not current.
Too bad Newsweek blew the whistle, somebody in Cali could have bought that condo for the tax liens.
I bought some SFR investment properties in Sacramento last winter. I quit buying anything this spring, because there were a lot of people out looking at the foreclosures and many houses were getting multiple offers, even over asking.
It seems the bloom is off the rose now, though, as the buyer pool is settling and traffic is down. There are some decent deals which have been sitting for a few months. It might be time to get back in the business of buying again in October-January.
$100/sf for a house is below reproduction cost, if there are no bonds. The properties provide a 5% cash on cash return (provided they stay occupied) on an after tax basis (also provided the AMT does not kick in). Counting amortization paydown, it is about an 8.5% return. Of course, vacancies could rise and rents could drop, but for my money, it seems a better bet than the stock market.
Where in Sacramento? Do you allow cats?
This has been my observation about the whole housing mess, The average American is a MORON who doesn’t know how to do 8th grade math on a calculator.
And was never taught investment means positive cash flow, negative cash flow is a specualtion.
——————–
The properties provide a 5% cash on cash return
A little thing called Peak OIl might slightly upset your plans, as various feedback loops take hold. But what do I know, right?
A little thing called Peak OIl might slightly upset your plans, as various feedback loops take hold. But what do I know, right?
Or this could be just another asset bubble created by too much money chasing return. If it is Peak Oil, he can just collect the rent and stiff the bank on the mortgage, just like all the FB’s out there right now. I think a walk away is justified if it’s the end of civilization as we know it…
“Officials with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have informed Bernanke about a plan that would have been unheard-of in the past: a general examination of the US financial system. The IMF’s board of directors has ruled that a so-called Financial Sector Assessment Program (FSAP) is to be carried out in the United States. It is nothing less than an X-ray of the entire US financial system.”
This was from a German newspaper…adds to the noise from Fortis and RBS with their warnings of a meltdown in US Financials. Does anyone know if this is really happening? Is there a timeframe for this? I started looking around for info and can’t find anything relevant. Does anyone know?
Link?
Ja voll.
06/26/2008
The Shrinking Influence of the US Federal Reserve
By Gabor Steingart in Washington
Interesting, though perhaps a little late…
And who do we have to blame for that?
“For seven years, US President George W. Bush refused to allow the IMF to conduct its assessment. Even now, he has only given the IMF board his consent under one important condition. The review can begin in Bush’s last year in office, but it may not be completed until he has left the White House. This is bad news for the Fed chairman.”
What an insufferable jackass.
Thanks for digging up the link, PB.
GABOR STEINGART
Gabor Steingart, 45, is an award-winning journalist who has been with DER SPIEGEL Newsmagazine since 1990. He is currently reporting from SPIEGEL’s Washington, DC bureau. His best-selling book “The War for Wealth: The True Story of Globalization or Why the Flat World Is Broken” will be published in the United States and the United Kingdom in May 2008 by McGraw-Hill. His weekly column, “West Wing — The Battle for the White House,” appears exclusively on SPIEGEL ONLINE.
Someone’s knocking at the door,
Somebody’s ringing the bell,
Someone’s knocking at the door,
Somebody’s ringing the bell,
Do me a favour, open the door,
And let ‘em in, yeah, yeah.
IMF finally knocks on Uncle Sam’s door
* David HIrst
* June 30, 2008
* Page 1 of 3 | Single page
IMAGINE the Reserve Bank of Australia, concerned that its friends in the city of Sydney (but perhaps Melbourne) who, having wallowed in wealth all their adult lives, were no longer gainfully employable and their wildly extravagant lifestyles were in danger, and, having the powers to intervene in the market, decided to do just that on their behalf.
Imagine them offering to enter the market and buy shares that would prop up the foolish gambles of the bankers, gambles they had encouraged them, until recently, to take by providing them with cheap money.
On top of that, they told this group they would provide hundreds of billions of dollars in credits to these same profiteers on the grounds they were so big and important to the economy they were indeed too big to fail.
Then, imagine, despite pouring untold taxpayers money into stocks and allowing their cronies access to vast sums, the system continued to fail. So they announced they would need greater power and with it more secrecy.
For its growing band of critics has (SIC), perhaps unwittingly and in the interest of public good, this has become the principal function of the US Federal Reserve.
from the link:
The fact that the IMF is knocking on the very doors of its parents and waving legal papers about who lost the house, the car and the kids will, if the past is anything to go by, be buried in the US by pom-pom waving on CNBC telling all what a great time it is to buy.
The IMF has to examine our financial system before we can qualify to get IMF loans like other 3rd world countries do.
Does anyone know if this is really happening?
well, at least the Fortis meltdown is already happening (not too happy about that as I have most of my cash there).
But if the IMF really gets started on this, maybe they can include an audit of Fort Knox to be sure of some related issues?
wow, cramer is starting to turn into a bear. i wonder how many pissed off fans of his are sending him hate mail after last weeks market drop?
Cramer: The Way Ahead Is Down and Other Observations
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10423680/1/cramer-the-way-ahead-is-down-and-other-observations.html
Cramer vs. Cramer
(bull) (bear)
Wonder how many will get the reference to the movie. Eh, laddie, yer showin’ yer boomer cred.
This GenXer got the reference immediately.
As did this one.
Cramer vs. Kramer?
It’s the children that suffer in these conflicts.
“wow, cramer is starting to turn into a bear.”
We could be nearing a bottom.
Not yet. When Ludlow turns to a Bear THEN we have hit bottom.
Boy, Cramer is really on a manic low here (even for him). I can’t say that I disagree with him though…
We need to clear the week hands anyway and start to rebuild.I am buying the panic.The problem with most so called investors is they buy when all seems well.That is not the way to make money.
If Mr. Cramer is on such a low without any supporting facts, then I may have to revise my models. Mr. Cramer has been a most excellent reverse indicator.
“wow, cramer is starting to turn into a bear.”
So Jimbo is a follower, not a leader, just like many of his fellow REIC shills.
Not such a great forecast ahead.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aykUcWGnPYpg&refer=home
This coming Friday is Independent Day, declare yourself free from the shackles of the Dollar and the maddening crowd that doesn’t know any better…
Refuse to accept dollars for payment of goods and services. Demand gold instead.
It started out as a love affair that blossomed into marriage, but now we find the Dollar has been cheating on us, so is there any other avenue to take, other than divorce?
Methinks the dollar is willing to accept our apology for the disdain shown to it.
Taken for granted all these years, the dollar is now discovering, once again, that absence makes the heart grow fonder.
The love for the dollar grows by the day as does its scarcity.
The Dollars respects us, but knows we have nothing to export, to allow others to respect us.
The Dollars respects us, but knows we have nothing to export, to allow others to respect us.
Nice exchange, Lad and Combo…
Gold for dollars for gold for dollars for gold.
Refuse to accept dollars for payment of goods and services. Demand gold instead.
Interesting idea. Most people in large metro areas can do as well by simply doing this once every paycheck: Take cash out from your direct deposit after all retirement contributions and expenses and head down to your bullion coin dealer and plunk down the greenbacks for the gold. Once a paycheck could be every 2 weeks for some people. Over time you have a reasonable basis and lose any concern over spikes and canyons in metals prices.
By drinking beer and lecturing everyone in sight (including the dog) at your family’s BBQ get-to-gether…
not the biggest fall I’ve seen in our zip code so far but definitely the fastest:
from zillow
29104 Rainbow Dr CA 91384
Sold 04/02/2008: $318,750
For Sale: $229,900
That’s probably an REO whose title transfer was recorded as a sale.
That makes sense but spoils my Schadenfreude a bit.
…a question about that:
are REO title transfers always recorded / viewed as sales? If so, aren’t median prices completely distorted?
Yes and no. Median prices are reported based on the MLS data, which is usually proofed and otherwise sanitized. Zillow generally grabs publicly accessible county records data, where it is far more likely that recording errors are made and never corrected.
So yes, the reported median prices are completely distorted due to the unscrupulous nature of realtors, not the general incompetence of county clerical staff.
Renters projected to have more wealth.
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/the-housing-crash-and-the-retirement-prospects-of-late-baby-boomers/
Thanks for the link. Would love to send that link to my buddies who ridiculed me the last 4 years for not being in real estate. Ha! Very sobering it would be for them. Of course, none of them are apologizing for their remarks they made to me over the years. One said “a man in his 40s should be a home owner!” LOL.
Perhaps it is better at the end of the day to throw money away on rent than to throw away your life savings on owner-occupied housing?
Nic summary of Glass Steagall act
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weill/demise.html
PJB is at 17 again. Life’s been good but I’m a bit nervous this time.
Thoughts, txchick?
what’s that?
Gold looking to rise.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gold-revs-its-engine-squeals/story.aspx?guid=%7B859C0FA3%2DEB68%2D4DC8%2DA361%2D0629E1A6F5D7%7D
Cool! I’m looking forward to buying more gold next month. Haven’t bought any since April because I had some semi-annual and annual bills to pay. But I’ll be done with my 2008 401k and will be able to buy a couple ounces of gold per month again!
Terrified over the news of IndyMac, I had posted two weeks ago thinking I should get out early.
I am trying to now and pay the penalty, I faxed my request letter off last night and I am just waiting for the bank to open today 12:00 Pacific time.
I hope I will have no issues getting a bank wire transfer to my credit union.
I am nervous as hell, this is my entire life savings.
Pissed off over here as well, this is the final straw for me and all of my bitterness over this has reached it’s peak.
When someone on here predicted the failure of at least two major banks I didn’t think it would be the one that I am in.
Dam the bubble and it’s horrible aftermath towards the innocent.
On a side note, I have found a REO that I really want to put a low ball offer on in Loxahatchee.
Brand new home, over the top in beauty and build, 3356 under air.
The former owner (or someone) recently went in and ripped out all of the kitchen cabinets, granite, sink, appliances, all bathroom cabinets, countertops, etc…
He owned the land outright and by looking up all of the records he really tried to save this thing, he paid off the contractor lien just before it went REO in June.
House had been listed for 589,000 now it is off the market and back with the bank.
The final judgement is for 322,000 with the interest and fees. I am going to offer .50 cents on the dollar in cash from that amount and cross my fingers. There are so many REO and LP properties in Loxahatchee it is crazy.
I figure if I can get this price and put in another 50,000 to replace all of the goodies I should had done very well. Paying then in total 210,000 for my dream home.
Am I dreaming or does anyone think my offer has a chance?
One other house on exact street just sold for .60 cents on dollar the same way and there are other REO’s on the same street. I also have seen other property REO in that area go for .50 to .60 cents on dollar.
Wish me luck getting my money back without having to go through FDIC. This is an aggravation I never expected.
:Good Luck!”
“When someone on here predicted the failure of at least two major banks I didn’t think it would be the one that I am in.”
“Dam the bubble and it’s horrible aftermath towards the innocent.”
____________________________________________________________
This scenario is likely to happen at your bank, and all the fun described above can be yours, but only if you do nothing.
“This scenerio is likely to happen at your bank, and all the fun described above can be yours, but only if you do nothing.”
Which suggests one withdraw his cash from the bank? Are you advocating going to cash?
You can run, but driving a fiat won’t get you very far.
Is that a “yes”?
So it boils down to rectangular pieces of paper with promises attached, and you’re good with that?
I am as long as they are accepted by everyone I do business with.
What do you you use for money, if not dollars?
I admitted the other day that I have a little less than 1% of my assets in Dollars, and it’s more exposure than i’d like, but that’s how the cookie crumbles.
Blips. (As long as accepted, lol)
Well, the good news is that if it does fail, it’ll be the first major bank in line for FDIC payouts. I think you’ll get your money back as the FDIC has about 55 billion or so. Now, if you are in bank number 3 or later that fails, then all bets are off. good luck
doesn’t the fine print with the FDIC state that they can HOLD your money for up to 10 yrs? So it is safe, but you can’t touch it..until they feel like giving it back.
I recall reading this subject several years ago.
ANyone?
“…The typical small U.S. Bank (with assets less of $4 billion has 67% of its assets related to real estate; for large banks the figure is 48%….”
Mr. Nouriel Roubini
June 27, 2008
Mr. Roubini is expecting 6,000 banks to fail. At least 30% of all banks have construction loans outstanding that exceed book value. Zscores for most banks are still positive, but deterioration is evident.
The banks went all-in on real estate, and bet it all on a Full House that got beat by a Straight Flush…
“bet it all on a Full House”
Try a pair of 2’s.
Full House = Potemkin Village
more like they bet it on 2×4s, a pair of 2’s and a pair of 4’s
Food prices will be going through the roof, and as agriculture uses 80% of California’s water, and farmers are getting just over 25% of their anticipated water deliveries, why shouldn’t homeowners be hit just as hard by the drought?
___________________________________________________________
“The future of California’s San Joaquin Valley as a major source of fresh produce could be in jeopardy. A few summer commodities may be in tight supply this year, but it is the fall — and beyond — that could affect retail and foodservice, grower-shippers said. “If this trend continues, the ability of California and the county of Fresno to continue to produce a domestic food supply is very threatened,” said Jerry Prieto, the county’s agriculture commissioner.”
“Growers in the Fresno-based Westlands Water District, the state’s largest, will receive in June, July and August two-thirds of an acre foot of water per acre versus the nearly 2.5 acre feet anticipated in January, said Sarah Woolf, a spokeswoman for the district.”
http://thepacker.com/icms/_dtaa2/content/wrapper.asp?alink=2008-141513-747.asp&stype=topstory&fb=
Anxious in America
THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
“…Come August, though, I predict both men will be looking for a financial wizard as their running mates to help them steer America out of what could become a serious economic tailspin.
…The straws in the wind are hard to ignore: If you visit any car dealership in America today you will see row after row of unsold S.U.V.’s. And if you own a gas guzzler already, good luck. On Thursday, The Palm Beach Post ran an article on your S.U.V. options: “Continue to spend upward of $100 for a fill-up. Sell or trade in the vehicle for a fraction of the original cost. Or hold out and park the truck in the driveway for occasional use in hopes the market will turn around.” Just be glad you don’t own a bus. Montgomery County, Md., where I live, just announced that more children were going to have to walk to school next year to save money on bus fuel.
…“America and its political leaders, after two decades of failing to come together to solve big problems, seem to have lost faith in their ability to do so,” Wall Street Journal columnist Gerald Seib noted last week. “A political system that expects failure doesn’t try very hard to produce anything else.”….”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
“…more children were going to have to walk to school next year to save money on bus fuel.”
Between this and the rising cost of Doritos, could this be the end of the obesity crisis?
Only if the moms stop driving them to school.
Can someone please explain to me why, in the course of four short years, a good deal of this nation went from looking for terrorists in their sock drawer to being comfortable enough to be able to “ignore” the issue altogether at the next election?
The decider once had an approval rating of what? 85%? Today it hovers around 30%. Those that the comprise difference between those readings are the ones that need to be sent on a very long lunar expedition…with very little oxygen.
It’s the economy, stupid.
The situation at hand demonstrates the perils of a politician succeeding at something which benefits the masses. Pundits will argue for generations going forward about whether the end justified the means, and there is always the question of whether the means caused the end, but I note that since 9/11/01, there have been no further terrorist attacks on U.S. soil (at least to my knowledge), while there has clearly been an economic crisis. Guess which one of these has riveted the voter’s attention this election season?
Voters en masses are always overly concerned about the crisis du juor, and overly quick to forget about yesterday’s crisis which has been contained.
Since 9/11 Bin Ladin has accomplished all of his goals that is why.
(removal of US Troops from Saudi Arabia being #1)
References, please?
pfft… what car lots?
they seem to be shutting down on a weekly basis round these parts.
Had an independent trucker in the shop this week. Needed an in-frame overhaul, cost roughy 20k… he just walked away from the truck. Simply walked.
also,
Neighbor up the street had a screaming session at the garbage truck this week. His trash has been sitting in his front yard for almost three weeks. “I PAID THE DAMN BILL!! TAKE MY TRASH!!” over and over…. lost his car two weeks ago, boat out front for sale… its getting chippy out in the boondocks where the meltdown is just getting its legs under it.
guess he picked a bad week to stop shooting smack.
John Nolan Ford
Cincinnati, OH
Oakley, OH
More than 90 employees will lose their jobs when John Nolan Ford closes its dealership in Oakley at the end of this month. “The Nolans have decided to sell the franchise back to Ford,” said Bill Wesley, general sales manager of the dealership at 3250 Highland Ave. “Ford has been trying to reduce their dealer body due to a decline in market share. There’s just not enough business to go around.” Wesley said sales volume has been averaging 80 to 100 vehicles per month in the last year or so, roughly half the levels achieved at the turn of the decade. The Nolan family has owned the dealership for 37 years. Wesley said the family will continue to operate a Ford dealership in Georgetown, Ky., and two Harley-Davidson motorcycle dealerships in Norwood and Florence. Cincinnati-area car dealers are facing increasing pressure to close or sell, thanks to declining sales by U.S. automakers and a surplus of local dealerships selling domestic autos. Industry experts are expecting a shakeout that will reduce the total number of local dealerships by 10 percent to 30 percent, according to a story in the Business Courier’s June 20 edition. John Nolan Ford employees were told of the closure Monday morning, Wesley said.
The Business Courier - June 23, 2008
True, a lot of dealers are shutting down
A big Ford dealership closed its doors in SSF. Ford then reopened it for fleet sales.
fleeting sales.
sounds about right.
Last year almost all of our local auto dealerships moved into a brand new auto mall. Nice Taj Mahal dealerships, filled to the rafters with trucks and SUVs that they can’t sell. I’m sure most of these dealers are now wishing that they were still in their old, paid for, locations. Only the Ford dealer stayed put (after a minor remodel). All others are out in the lonely Centerra auto park, paying huge mortgages on their palatial new dealerships. I wonder who will fold first?
In two or three months I will know whether or not I will be gone another 12 months from my Phoenix, AZ home base. I will be in the market for a used small economy car and I will buy it with cash. Been renting cars since September and found out how expensive renting can be, but didn’t expect to stay out of Phoenix this long. Hopefully I could find a 3 year old economy car (33 mpg or more) at that time. I think the shortage of high MPG cars will become severe as gas prices move to $5.
Thomas Friedman is such an ass. He was and is such a rip roaring, offshoring is good for the US citizen guy.
He was and is such a cheerleader to the detriment of us all.
That is my story and I am sticking to it.
I imagine this is what Beijing looks like all the time, here presently in the Great Smokey mountains of California, @ my angle of repose.
June 29, 2008
Back to the Great Depression?
Wall Street has had its worst June since 1930. How much worse could the world economy get?
“…This month, however, reality has hit home. “Some of it is clearly to do with the oil price but essentially what we are seeing is a slow-motion car crash,” said George Magnus, senior economic adviser at UBS.
“The first act was the housing market, the second act was the credit crunch, and what we are now seeing in this third act is the bigger picture of a downturn that has a long way to run.”
Few are gloomier about that prospect than Albert Edwards, strategist at Société Générale in London. “America is leading the way, diving into deep recession as a collapse in consumer confidence induces the great unwind,” he said. Edwards compares the economy with a pyramid scheme that is poised to crash to earth and interest-rate changes can do nothing to avert it.
He thinks Wall Street and the other main markets have a lot further to drop, and will end up 70% below the peaks of last year. That would imply a level of just 500 for the S&P 500, which was at 1,280 on Friday, and 4,500 for the Dow, compared with Friday’s closing level of 11,346. …”
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article4232875.ece
I predict that anything any analyst predicts at this time has a 90% chance of being wrong. From goof ball scenarios of deflation to my thoughts on hyper inflation to a stock market at 4500 DJIA, doomsday scenarios sell papers but are rarely correct. One of the items that the articlle mentions is that the average price of oil might be 113 this year, well if oil averages $125 bbl for the rest of the year the average price will be $117. This will be the single largest one year avg increase in oil.
Ouro, DON’T read the above link.
It will make you feel waltzenfruede or whatever that word is (dang, I should’ve studied German, I figured studying Indo-European would cover everything.)
Schadenfreude = “joy in other’s sorrow”
no, prof, there’s another one, Oly, where are you?
Freudenwalzer. Dancing with joy.
I’d say Schadenfreude in the HBB context means more a gleeful response to the misfortunes of those who invited this fate through their own greed and stupidity. It’s also a sense of restored faith in the one immutable law of the universe: The redeeming value of idiots is that they aren’t around for very long. And finally, it’s a sense of appreciating the opportunities for those of independent thought who refused to buy into the housing bubble, and will see their patience and prudence rewarded in the not-so-distant future.
I have to share this with you all:
A week or so ago, trying to find a rental back in Colorado, where I’m going (today) for my new museum job, the search is not very encouraging, the market is very tight and expensive. So, a friend recommends a little online newspaper, sends me the link, I click on it and there’s a rental, I call, yes, it’s just now coming up for rent, how did I know?
“It’s in the paper.”
“Really? We didn’t post an ad.”
“Maybe the current renter did it for you.” (They’re in a different state.)
“Yes, she’s very nice, must’ve been her.”
They asked her, no, she didn’t do it. Anyway, I get the house, she’s leaving today, so there you go. Nice place, too, and reasonable.
So I check the paper again this morn just out of curiosity and the link was to this time last year. I was reading a paper from a year ago, when they rented it to the current renter.
Don’t expect the expected…how does that go??? Expect the unexpected…here you go:
If we do not expect the unexpected, we will never find it. Heraclitus
That is a great find. Good luck Lost
Thanks, Hoz, am looking forward to it with great and enthusiastic trepidation…haven’t had a real job for quite some time! One of the questions they asked during the interview was how good I was at screwing around, I gave them Ben’s link here and said, pretty darn good. They smiled. Gotta love paleontologists.
Crede quod habes, et habes !
Crede caput mundi!
Great story. Clearly the move to Colorado is meant to be!
The Housing Gods were obviously smiling on you.
And, wow, how wierd is that?
for me, pretty weird -
You’re supposed to be there.
Yeah, but what’s scary is, who does the supposing?
Charmed life just like you said! Or else good positive karma. Good luck.
“Politicians and others in positions of power should be judged not only on the quality of the decisions they take and the choices they make, but also on the manners they display in their public and administrative roles. The arrogance of power manifests itself in unnecessary brutality and cruelty - sometimes born of ignorance or indifference, sometimes deliberate - toward those whom it considers ‘disposable’. As the most powerful government department, the Treasury displays contempt for and nastiness towards those whom it considers to be obstacles to the effective pursuit of its goals, more frequently and with greater intensity than other institutions.”
Willem Buiter
June 29, 2008
Would be interesting to know how many politicos are clinical narcissists, by definition have no empathy for others and the world turns around them. Bet it’s high. And the more powerful the branch of government, the more highly suspicious I would be of this.
De-Nihilists, the whole lot.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Cicero
“…Nothing is more dishonest than the whole political system.”
‘zactly
Its not whether you win or lose, its how you weigh the shame.
Ineffectivley yours,
arrogant income deposed
“Man is devoured by the reproaches of his conscience.”
Jaroslav Hašek
Building on a legacy
By Emmet Pierce
STAFF WRITER
June 29, 2008
…
McMillin said he sees challenges ahead as builders struggle to overcome the national credit crunch and the mortgage market meltdown. Sales of both new and resale homes are in a slump as troubled borrowers struggle to avoid defaulting on adjustable-rate mortgages.
“It’s been a mess,” he said. “I think next year will improve. We need to level off first. The question is, ‘How long are we going to bump along the bottom?’ Foreclosures are a huge, huge thing. I don’t know that we have seen the beginning of that yet. I hope I am wrong.”
Bank of America is scheduled to buy Countrywide this week. I bet they roll the current obligations of Countrywide into a shell company and conveniently choose not to buy that part of the company, or they completely back out of the transaction.
Countrywide closed their local office here.
The current supposition is that BAC will put Countrywide into Foreclosure prior to consumation of the deal. Get rid of Countrywides obligations, lawsuits and shareholders in a swoop. BAC filed a notice with the SEC about 6 weeks ago that allows them the ability to do this.
So the suits by the states of Cali, Illinois, etc. will go out the window?
Lost, the suits are BS to begin with. State Attorney Generals grandstanding. Did somebody hold a gun up to the Strawberry picker and force him/her to sign? There is personal responsibility that courts recognize. Know what you sign.
Yes it gets rid of all the problems. Mr. Dimon should have done the same with Bear Stearns, Morgan will be in law suits for the next decade.
“The current supposition is that BAC will put Countrywide into Foreclosure prior to consumation of the deal.”
Prenuptial agreement?
If BAC does that and cuts its dividends to $1.00 per share maybe it will survive and will be a good stock to buy.
And if pigs had wings, we would be able to eat huge spicy hot wings.
Everyone on this blog saw this coming. How didn’t the majority of people? Why is it such a shock now?! Are most people really that much more naive and gullible than me?
The tragic toll of housing nightmare
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2008/06/28/2008-06-28_the_tragic_toll_of_housing_nightmare.html
Some families are homeless, others are split in money fights. Plugs have been pulled on utilities. Abandoned houses have attracted rodents.
Five years ago, housing prices began to rise. Banks lowered requirements for high-risk lenders by offering subprime loans, with little or no money down and few questions asked.
Buried (puh-leeze…it wasn’t THAT buried) in the small print was the time bomb named ARM - the adjustable-rate mortgage. A mortgage holder would get a favorable interest rate up front, but it would jump dramatically.
The News looks at what happened on these blocks (Jamaica, NY) after the subprime gold rush.
Ouro, FOR SURE don’t read the above…
The only real victim I saw in that article was the family that was renting a house that was foreclosed, causing a loss of their security deposit.
Even though there are a lot of people in this situation (I personally know two people that were forced to move quickly….) NOT ONE politician has addressed this issue, or has proposed anything to help these actual innocent victims</i< of the housing bubble.
Is it really Common Sense (or a Smart Money move) to gamble one’s retirement wealth in thinly-traded securities markets? I think not. I think, rather, that this story is one of many demonstrations of the failed securitization business model which greatly enriched Wall Street in recent years at the collective expense of the many “beleaguered” investors who took the bait.
COMMON SENSE
Good news may be on horizon for beleaguered ARPS market
By James B. Stewart
SMARTMONEY
June 29, 2008
The auction-rate preferred-security crisis may yet have a happy ending.
This is welcome news for every fixed-income investor and anyone who depends on healthy credit markets. It’s especially good news for the holders of $330 billion in ARPS who were among the victims of the credit crisis that gripped financial markets this year. When the credit markets seized, big brokerage firms and investment banks stopped providing liquidity, the auctions failed, and the securities were essentially frozen in accounts. Many people lost access to their life savings.
…
I’ve been hammering away on this subject in this column not just because I’m one of the victims, but because the injustice was so painful to many investors. Investors were told by their brokers that these investments were the equivalent of money-market funds, highly liquid and safe. This was reflected in the yields, which were barely higher than the money-market equivalent. No one expected to get rich investing in ARPS. It was just a convenient place to park cash while earning a slightly higher return.
Why does a vision of Jon Stewart’s face pop into my mind when I read that paragraph? Perhaps Jon and James are related? Anyway, it sounds like James Stewart and others who went for this ARPS gambit are SOL, with frozen accounts and all.
James Stewart of Bailey Building & Loan Association, vs. Mister Potter, in real-life?
Life imitates art…
Mr. Potter never got the pound of flesh he was entitled to receive. George weasled his way out and got public assistance, while pretending he never saw the documents… Typical FB that whined his way out. “Its not my fault, its my drunken uncles”.
God I hate that movie.
I claim no expertise on the auction rate market, but my reading of this and other articles on the subject suggest that Mr. Stewart and friends who gambled on ARPS are screwed.
Nightmare on Main Street spurs action
By Joanna Chung in New York
Published: June 29 2008 23:34 | Last updated: June 29 2008 23:34
Last week, Massachusetts’ top securities regulator filed civil charges against UBS for allegedly selling investments the Swiss bank knew were not safe. The case is being closely watched by the banking sector, not least because it contained some of the first official complaints to stem from regulatory probes into the collapse of the auction-rate securities market in February.
Nearly all of the leading investment banks are the subject of various investigations into the failure of this $330bn segment of the bond market, one of the biggest casualties of the credit crunch.
Am I correct in interpreting “now defunct” to mean “dead and gone, never to return”?
Auction-rate securities ‘implied support’
By Joanna Chung in New York
Published: June 29 2008 23:34 | Last updated: June 29 2008 23:34
The vast majority of investors in some of the “safest” bonds hit by the credit squeeze were led to believe they would be bailed out in case of trouble, according to research to be published Monday.
More than 85 per cent of companies that invested in the collapsed market for auction-rate securities thought Wall Street banks would provide support during crises, research shows.
The findings could lead to further strains between banks and their customers over the now-defunct market, one of the biggest casualties of the credit squeeze and the subject of numerous regulatory probes.
There’s no denying it: The more different things get, the more they stay the same.
CHUCK JAFFE
Tried-and-true strategies still apply in new world order
June 29, 2008
CHICAGO – Mohamed El-Erian’s message at the Morningstar Investor Conference here last week could be boiled down to one simple, dangerous statement: “This time it’s different.”
But if the global market conditions are as different as the co-chief executive and chief investment strategist at bond-fund giant PIMCO contends, then the real concern for investors is why the proposed tactics to deal with “this time” feel so much like the same old thing.
…
“I hate the notion of saying, ‘This time it’s different,’ but there simply is too much research showing that this time it really is different,” El-Erian said after his talk. “You don’t want to say it very often – because it loses meaning – but there’s no denying it right now.”
…
But if his basic plan of attack can be summed up in “Diversify, factor in inflation and emerging markets, adjust your return expectations downward for the next few years” and so on, then his advice is roughly the same old stuff. That’s not bad, it’s just not different.
I offer the readers on this blog the same sage advice that I have offered friends and family members in recent years: Your credit score is one of your most valuable assets going forward, to be nurtured and protected as carefully as a retirement nest egg.
Credit cleanup
Higher scores sought as lenders get more selective
By Eleanor Laise
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
June 29, 2008
People used to obsess over frequent-flier miles. Now, with lending standards getting tighter, they’re applying similar energy to improving their credit scores.
You’re kidding, right? Isn’t the most important thing to get where you don’t need to worry about borrowing money? And this doesn’t mean having a lot of it…it simply means not needing to borrow any. For example, it’s certainly cheaper to pay cash for a car than to finance one (even with 0% financing, because there’s almost always a “rebate” option if you don’t want the 0%).
Anyone who can afford $300/month to the car dealer can afford to drive used cars for a while and make car payments to himself until he has enough cash for a car. After that, you buy the car and continue making payments to yourself for the next car….
I haven’t checked my credit score in a couple of years, but the last time I did I was amazed that it wasn’t near the maximum. After all, I have no debt and pay all my credit cards off in full each month. (What the industry calls a “freeloader”.)
I noticed that they don’t seem to take into account that cards are paid off in full. Since I put nearly everything on a card (to get the 1.5% cash back) and do a lot of business travel, the credit cards run 10K-15K/month. So the Fair Isaac score treats it like I’m carrying around a 10K credit card debt that never gets paid down….even though the card I use for business (the bulk of the charges) has no credit line.
“Isn’t the most important thing to get where you don’t need to worry about borrowing money? And this doesn’t mean having a lot of it…it simply means not needing to borrow any.”
Yes; perhaps I am mistaken in treating this as synonymous with having a good credit score? I always come back to this timeless quote when I reflect on these matters:
A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain.
–Mark Twain–
Yeah, I intend to pay for my primary (and only) residence with cash after 2012…(then only worrying about paying discount rent to the county protection racket).
Pay off the card prior to the closing date and it’ll show up as zero.
I do, and it doesn’t. It still shows an average amount that’s based on the average amount on the card over the month.
yeah, that’s the ticket. hand over your self worth without an argument to a bunch of monkeys with computers and run like rats in a maze to keep up with their latest fancy.
no thanks. I’ll pay cash for what I want.
Why isn’t this so absurdly obvious to everyone?
That having been said, I do like the convenience of my card. I just pay it off.
Even if you currently don’t need to apply for credit (or ever expect to need it), maximizing your credit score is a worthwhile endeavor. If you are financially responsible, it takes very little effort to cultivate a superior FICO score. And if you ever need to borrow for any reason, a high FICO score can save you a lot of money even if its just a short-term loan.
I was shocked to find out that I had a higher FICO score than either of my parents earlier this year. Despite being 25 years older, them being homeowners and me a renter, etc. When we got to talking about it, it had mostly to do with closing old credit accounts right after establishing cards with better rewards. They didn’t realize that closing the old accounts would adversely impact their credit rating.
One of my cousins will be a senior at NYU this fall. For whatever reason, she never bothered to get her drivers license as a teenager and didn’t see the point to doing so if she was going to school in NYC. She also didn’t want to get a credit card because she was afraid that she’d wind up using it irresponsibly. I convinced her to get both a license and a credit card, but to not use either while she was in college. I made up a spreadsheet showing her how much she would save after graduation on both her car insurance if she had a clean DMV record for 4 years and how much it would improve her FICO if she had an established credit line. Not rocket science, but she didn’t realize how much it could potentially cost her later in life if she didn’t establish herself as a safe driver and responsible consumer even if both were an illusion.
The system is what it is. Might as well make it work for you.
Rising oil prices, inflation stoking economic gloom
By Joe Bel Bruno
ASSOCIATED PRESS
June 29, 2008
Investors who remember the stock market’s steep and prolonged decline earlier this decade may be wondering if the recovery from Wall Street’s current morass will also take several years to accomplish.
The dot-com bust, terrorist attacks, recession and corporate wrongdoing combined to send stocks plunging in 2002. Today’s market has some similar problems, in particular the troubled economy and a devastated industry – this time, it’s the financial sector. But there’s one variable that may be impossible to resolve: oil prices that have more than doubled in a year and show no signs of abating.
“The economic gloom is far greater today then it was in 2002 because we have concern about worldwide inflation and what oil is going to do to the economy,” said Alfred Goldman, chief market strategist at Wachovia Securities. “The problem for investors is when all of this is going to end, and the bottom line is nobody knows. Nostradamus wouldn’t have known; neither would Albert Einstein.”
“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.”
Albert Einstein
The SD Union Tribune Dataquick chart appears in today’s Home section. (Strangely, the link on their web site is not functioning or I would post it). At any rate, I am sure this is just a one-time aberration, but the May 2008 home prices are down by double-digit YOY percentages almost everywhere in the county. I summarize the YOY changes by area below:
I highlighted in bold the only exception in these numbers to declining YOY prices — North County Coast new homes. I cannot be sure about this, but I suspect it reflects a shift from condos to SFRs in the mix of new homes that are selling, as these are not split out in the new homes figure. A similar explanation may apply to the strikingly-small Central SD new home price decline.
————————————————————————-
Area / Resale SFR / Resale Condo / Resale new (SFR/Condo) / All Combined
Central SD / -22.7 / -17.3 / -0.6 / -19.4
East County / -24.4 / -34.4 / -34.8 / -25.8
North County Inland / -23.9 / -30.1 / -14.9 / -24.8
North County Coast / -23.9 / -16.8 / +32.7 / -19.4
South County / -26.0 / -35.7 / -13.3 / -28.7
My nephew in Oahu did a comp on his biz from a year ago - down 16%.
Would’ve been more, but international sales picked up. He has a dustributing company.
What kind of Dust does he distribute?
LOL - he distributes health care products, NO, not pakalolo…
a clever commentary on new UK visa ad, man running naked through desert:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,2287446,00.html
the ad (created by Saatchi & Saatchi):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2008/mar/20/advertising
The ad features the playa where Burning Man takes place, and I think the little town of Gerlach, Nv. is included at no extra charge.
Well done~
inquiring minds want to know - was he able to sit down after running with a naked bum in the hot sun…
I’m concerned that all the borrowing might have dulled the edge of his husbandry on their wedding night, per WS via PB.
A rather nice naked bum indeed.
I know a family man who is Mormon 50 weeks out of the year. The other two weeks he attends Burning Man, and this has been going on several years so far…He does not hide the fact that he leaves work for vacation to Burning Man.
He should have been Catholic, then he could go there weekdays and get redeemed in confession on Sunday - all sins for the previous week forgivven with 3 hail Marys!
“a clever commentary on new UK visa ad, man running naked through desert:”
Many deserts are really just beaches or even former ocean floors where the water has left permanently. If you think it is tough for a naked swimmer to be left high and dry on the beach after the water goes out, imagine the plight of a debt addict in the middle of a liquidity-free desert…
Wouldn’t the ad make more sense for many big spenders if you ran it in reverse?
that it would
ROTFL!! Perfect.
Doug Casey and “The Greater Depression”
“Reduce your standard of living now (while the situation is still under control), greatly increase your savings (in gold, which is real money) and rig for greatly changed patterns of production, consumption, employment and business for a considerable time. The hurricane that’s just starting to hit the economy will both trigger and worsen problems in other areas. Starting with politics, because nearly everyone today believes the ridiculous notion that the government should guide the economy”
http://www.kitcocasey.com/displayArticle.php?id=2117
I interpret “rig for greatly changed patterns of production, consumption, employment and business” as this: get rid of most of your ballast, simplify, have several years of savings in precious metals and at least T-bills, and be willing to relocate for months or years at a time to where better job opportunities are - i.e. RENT, don’t OWN!
The big cat trainers of the central banking world…
Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke have more in common with the big cat entertainers Siegfried & Roy than any of us can be comfortable with.
The Las Vegas magicians call themselves “Masters of the Impossible” and have been fascinating audiences for decades by getting snow-white tigers to leap through burning rings.
The legendary Federal Reserve Chairman and his successor were equally adept at fascinating their audiences — with a policy of miraculous monetary growth that gave America one of the longest periods of economic expansion in modern times. Many saw them as “Masters of the Universe.” It seemed as if the central bankers had tamed predatory capitalism with their constant interest rate cuts.
Siegfried & Roy at times seemed at one with their cats, until the day everything went out of control. A tiger bit Roy in the neck during a show and looked as though it were about to devour him alive.
Next on my reading list after I finish Kevin Phillips’ “Bad Money…”:
Customer Reviews
The War for Wealth: The True Story of Globalization, or Why the Flat World is Broken
Gabor Steingart
Having read most of the intro to Phillips’ book, I cannot help but be struck by the similarity of the content to what has been covered on this blog for three years running. Kevin, are you lurking herel? (I realize that the conversation here may parallel other similar discussions — it is not as though we have a monopoly on news of the housing bubble and its aftermath.)
Inflation worry limits Fed flexibility
By Krishna Guha in Washington
Published: June 29 2008 21:12 | Last updated: June 29 2008 21:12
The past few days of trading have seen financial markets rocked by a realisation of just how fraught with dangers the US macroeconomic outlook still is – and the limitations on the power of the Federal Reserve to dispel them.
The core dynamic of the credit squeeze – financial sector weakness causing and then being amplified by economic weakness – has resurfaced. And it has been compounded by a resurgence of inflation risk, driven by record oil prices.
Which hedge fund does this dude advise, and how much do they stand to make if the bailout bill passes into law?
What we can do in this dangerous moment
By Lawrence Summers
Published: June 29 2008 18:10 | Last updated: June 29 2008 18:10
…
First, the much debated housing bill should be passed immediately by Congress and signed into law. It provides some support for mortgage debt reduction and strengthens the government’s hand in its troubled relationship with the government-sponsored enterprises – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. While it is an imperfect vehicle – too limited in the scope it provides for debt reduction, insufficiently aggressive in strengthening GSE regulation and failing to increase the leverage of homeowners in their negotiations with creditors through bankruptcy reform – it would contribute to the repair of the nation’s housing finance system. Failure to pass even this minimal measure would undermine confidence.
20% owned by Lehman. No secrets. Shaw. Got a hand slapping (ceremonial) for its part in LTCM, Summers negotiated the ‘out’ package.
Is it impertinent of me to suggest that a sound banking system is a higher priority than baseless confidence? If so, I apologize.
Top 10 Strangest Anti-Terrorism Patents
Biohazard Suit with Built-In Toilet
U.S. Patent 6920646, Human waste management suit, by Caleb Clark Crye, Gregg M. Thompson, and Eric Owen Fehlberg. Issued Jul 26, 2005.
Problem: You got to wear a biohazard suit to protect against biological or chemical weapons … but as soon as you put it on, you really gotta go!
Solution: A biohazard suit with a built-in toilet! Just squat a little bit and go.
Bonus: Hazardous fumes are sealed inside the suit, thus preventing embarrassing smell from adding extra stress to an already strenuous situation.
Potential Complications: How do you wipe?
http://www.neatorama.com/2008/06/27/top-10-strangest-anti-terrorism-patents/
What I don’t get about these bailouts is if we are in a credit crunch, where will the money come from to prop up share prices? Does money grow on trees or something? If not, whose money will be used to prop up these bourses?
Asian states may buy shares to aid markets
Published: June 29 2008 19:42 | Last updated: June 29 2008 19:42
Several Asian countries are looking at spending billions of dollars on shares to support plunging stock markets in a move likely to be welcomed by global investors who fear emerging markets may be about to suffer further dramatic falls.
The development follows a 13 per cent fall this year in the MSCI Asia Pacific index, which looks as though it will end the month on Monday with its worst first-half performance since 1992, when it sank by 23 per cent as the Japanese economic bubble deflated.
Here is a cautionary tale from someone who got stucco. Judging from the comments about why their home is not selling (which don’t include the realization that it is priced to sell above current market value for comparable housing), it is unclear they realize how difficult it may be to undo the damage.
LOVE & MONEY
By JEFF OPDYKE
Our New Plan: First, Sell the House
June 29, 2008
…
When Amy and I agreed that I should accept an offer to work for the paper in Hong Kong, one of our first moves was to put our house on the market. We knew in today’s environment that it probably wouldn’t sell quickly. And it hasn’t, a reality that wreaked havoc on other financial aspects of the move — and ultimately made it imprudent for us to pursue what would have been a dream job for me.
A clear part of the reason why our house hasn’t sold is that it’s in the wrong price range. I’m not saying it’s mispriced; local real-estate agents say it isn’t. But the lower-priced homes are the ones moving relatively quickly in our city. Higher-priced houses like ours are selling, but are sitting on the market much, much longer.
It was simple economics, but it made for some complicated calculations when it came to our move to Hong Kong. The practical result: We couldn’t move until we sold the house, because we couldn’t afford to pay our fairly substantial mortgage on top of paying $4,800 in monthly rent for an apartment in Hong Kong.
We don’t want to be stuck like this again. So in the past week, Amy and I have spent a lot of time talking about how we can reposition our finances so that we could more easily pursue new opportunities.
Step No. 1: selling our house.
Is there any way to interpret this news other than just plain ugly?
Renewed strains in credit markets evident
By Nicole Bullock in New York
Published: June 26 2008 17:55 | Last updated: June 26 2008 17:55
Renewed anxiety about the health of the US economy and large companies such as Citigroup and General Motors have led to fears in the credit markets that the worst of the crunch might not be over.
The high-grade derivatives index has widened to 138 basis points after being as low as 90bp in mid-May. The Merrill Lynch US High-Yield Master II index, the benchmark for the high-yield cash market, is showing a spread of more than 700bp over US Treasuries, compared to 637bp on June 16. In March, the high-grade derivatives index reached 193bp, according to Markit, while spreads on cash junk bonds topped 850bp.
Volatility spurs flight to quality
By David Oakley
Published: June 26 2008 17:58 | Last updated: June 26 2008 17:58
Public sector debt issuance has soared this year with some bonds pricing at the tightest levels ever as credit investors turn to some of the safest instruments in volatile markets.
It sounds as though Pancho Mozilo is at best only one step ahead of the law.
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Bank of Congress
June 26, 2008; Page A14
“Hopefully, there will soon be no more Countrywide,” declared Barney Frank (D., Mass.) last week. Calling Countrywide “unusually sleazy,” the House author of Congress’s $300 billion housing bailout added: “Having Bank of America buy up Countrywide is a good thing for America.” Yesterday, Countrywide shareholders seconded that by approving the transaction.
Mr. Frank may be right about Bank of America’s better management, but there’s no doubt his legislation is very good for both Countrywide and BofA. Thanks to this bailout that is now on the Senate floor, taxpayers could end up on the hook for more than $25 billion in loans originated by Countrywide. We also know the race is on to see how many of these mortgage contracts will receive taxpayer refinancing before the law catches up with them. Yesterday, Attorneys General in Illinois and California sued Countrywide and CEO Angelo Mozilo for deceptive trade practices.
…
After making its loans, Countrywide sometimes held on to them but most often it sold them to others who packaged them into mortgage-backed securities (MBSs). And that’s also why Bank of America has so much at stake in the housing bailout. According to a recent JP Morgan report, Bank of America holds more MBSs than any other bank, and its $182 billion in MBSs is more than twice as much as second-place Wachovia. So yesterday’s Washington Post report that BofA helped to craft the bailout comes as no surprise. What is surprising is how many Senators still think this bailout is smart politics.
June 27, 2008 9:01AM
The Bank of America Housing Bailout Bill
By Elizabeth MacDonald
The new housing bailout bill would let mortgage lenders off the hook for sour mortgages, as it would let the Federal Housing Administration assume the risk for these bad debts, shifting the burden to taxpayers and bond investors.
However, two “discussion documents” about a potential housing bailout bill, both of which are stamped “confidential and proprietary” that Bank of America authored and circulated among Congress, shows that the legislation now making its way through the corridors of Washington, DC is almost word for word what Bank of America wanted.
And in a revealing disclosure, the Bank of America documents state that “we believe that any intervention by the federal government will be acceptable only if it is not perceived as a bail-out of the bond market.”
The first Bank of America document is dated February 11, and is entitled “Federal Homeownership Preservation Corp.” The second is dated March 11, 2008, and is entitled “FHA Housing Stabilization and Homeownership Retention Act of 2008.”
Chris Powell: Dodd complicit in U.S. financial crisis
Chris Powell is managing editor of the Journal Inquirer in Manchester.
By CHRIS POWELL
Journal Inquirer
Posted Jun 30, 2008 @ 12:00 AM
Did Connecticut U.S. Sen. Christopher J. Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, knowingly accept preferential treatment from a mortgage company, obtaining discounts on two residential mortgages?
…
But giving Dodd the benefit of the doubt about his mortgages would not make him any less the tool of Wall Street. Indeed, whatever advantages those mortgages gave Dodd are insignificant compared to the financing of his political campaigns by financial interests whose irresponsibility and rapaciousness have helped push the national economy to the brink of collapse.
That irresponsibility and rapaciousness were unleashed in large part by the diminishment of government oversight and regulation — diminishment pushed hard by Dodd himself, who nine years ago helped to arrange repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act, which separated commercial banking from investment banking and limited the sort of financial speculation about which many in Congress have started to complain. Now Dodd is seeking legislation that, at taxpayer expense, would bail out irresponsible mortgage lenders in the name of rescuing irresponsible borrowers.
The dubious accusation about his mortgages has made Dodd uncomfortable, but if it distracts from the far bigger issue, his subservience to Wall Street, it actually could help him politically.
Too big to fail, but not too big to crash.
As Markets Continue to Sink, Investors Take Opposite Views On Banks’ Stocks, Debt
By Tom Lauricella
Word Count: 1,163 | Companies Featured in This Article: J.P. Morgan Chase
Global markets are signaling a new, potentially grim reality for many struggling financial firms: Though authorities won’t let them collapse, the outlook for their profits and balance sheets might still be darkening.
I call bullsh!t on this North County Times piece, which uncritically asserts the purpose of the Congressional mortgage lender bailout is to help “families.” Countrywide and Bank of America are mortgage lending firms, not families.
REAL ESTATE: SoCal bloggers fight housing ‘bailout’
Local bloggers attract thousands of supporters against legislation.
By ZACH FOX - Staff Writer | Friday, June 27, 2008 4:14 PM PDT
Not everyone wants to stem the wave of foreclosures about to wash over North County.
While the Senate has fast-tracked legislation that would offer assistance to thousands of families in danger of foreclosure, local bloggers and self-proclaimed housing nerds are putting up a fight.
Garnering thousands of supporters across the nation, some bloggers have launched a campaign based on a moral argument that irresponsible borrowers should not receive taxpayer-funded aid.
“A major issue is the equitability of it all. Someone can get a cash-out (refinance), buy a boat with the money and then get his principal written down,” said Rich Toscano, a financial adviser with Pacific Capital Associates in San Diego and founder of the housing analysis blog piggington.com.
And Toscano is far from alone. His blog links to another site that aggregates like-minded dissidents under the tell-all name; stopthehousingbailout.com.
So far, it links to 35 blogs against legislation aimed at helping families facing foreclosure.
For now, it looks like the bloggers are losing the fight.
Several senators have vowed to get the legislation to the president’s desk by July 4.
Still, President Bush has threatened to veto the bill.