June 29, 2008

People Were Drinking The Kool-Aid In Florida

The Tampa Tribune reports from Florida. “The three-bedroom, 1,484-square-foot ranch house needed some work, but it had a big family room and a large back yard. Most important: Javier and Esmeralda Arroyo qualified for a loan on the $166,900 home…after being turned down for loans five times in a year. About a year later, the excitement started to fizzle.”

“The Arroyos couldn’t have known how bad their timing was when they signed mortgage documents in July 2006 for the home in Plant City. That month was the absolute height of the local housing market. In August, prices in the Tampa Bay area started falling, and they haven’t stopped.”

“The couple were notified in December that the interest rate on their mortgage will adjust in September. The Arroyos, who speak primarily Spanish, say they didn’t understand they were signing up for an adjustable-rate mortgage.”

“‘I guess that’s why we qualified,’ Javier said, shaking his head.”

“Robert Ramirez awoke in the middle of the night to clanging metal and a rumbling moving truck in the back yard next door. Evicted neighbors loaded their belongings and fled the two-story stucco home.”

“They left doors and windows open, and trash and debris strewn across the lawn. It has been eight weeks, and no one has shown up to take care of it.”

“‘This used to be a really nice, close-knit community,’ Ramirez said. ‘Now, with that house here, there’s no way I could sell my house. I’m stuck, and my property value is falling.’”

“The effects of the foreclosure wave can be seen just inside the entrance to Lakeside. There are 16 homes with for-sale signs, and rent signs line streets. A pile of household trash and an old mattress are stacked at the curb in front of one house, the molding evidence of homeowners vacating in a hurry.”

“Signs advertise homes as ‘pre-foreclosure’ and ’short-sale’ deals.”

“Such scenes already frighten potential buyers who come looking for a deal on their next home. ‘We get a couple streets into the neighborhood, and the client asks me to turn the car around,’ said Frank Monte of Monte Real Estate.”

“When Ramirez bought his home in 2004, he said, all of his neighbors knew one another. Life was good for about two years. Then the housing market tanked as many of his neighbors absorbed skyrocketing payments from adjusting mortgage rates and rising insurance premiums. To avoid foreclosure, some sold their homes in fire sales. Others walked away.”

“The house next door to Ramirez’s went into foreclosure in December. Renters moved in shortly thereafter. Two weeks before they left in the night, he says, he found them stealing water from his garden hose.”

“Ramirez paid $140,000 for his house and recently had it appraised so he could refinance for a better interest rate. He was turned down.”

“‘The guy from the bank said I’m about $20,000 in the hole,’ Ramirez said. ‘He said I’d probably be OK if the house next door didn’t look so bad.’”

“The Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater area had 4,773 foreclosure filings in May alone. That was up 15 percent from April and 29 percent from the same month last year.”

“Along with the construction of homes, the foreclosure spike is contributing to a housing glut that has depressed prices. The median sales price in the area was $176,100 in May, down 16 percent from $209,300 a year earlier.”

“The Greater Tampa Association of Realtors says there is a 15-month inventory of homes on the market in this area, compared with one to two months in 2004-05. One key to a housing turnaround would involve removing a big chunk of the 19,800 listings on the local market.”

“Returning homes to mint condition and targeting an audience of family owners and occupiers is a trend that has developed in recent years, says Robert Klein, CEO of the nation’s largest mortgage field services company.”

“‘You used to put signs out that would say ‘REO Foreclosure,’ hinting, ‘Hey, come on in and get a bargain on me,’ Klein says. ‘We’re now well aware that the answer is not simply to sell to a flipper. You sell to a flipper right now, and in three years it’s right back where it was.’”

The Herald Tribune. “Sarasota attorney John Yanchek has been found guilty by a Florida Bar referee of violating seven Bar rules, including engagement in dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.”

“Yanchek is best known for assisting real estate investor Neal Mohammad Husani in a series of real estate deals from 2004 to 2006 in which land prices were vastly inflated, enabling Husani and his partners to obtain tens of millions of dollars in mortgage loans.”

“Testifying on his own behalf, Yanchek said his misdeeds occurred during a short period of time when the real estate world was booming and he became overburdened with work.”

“‘It was just me and two secretaries,’ Yanchek said. ‘I couldn’t keep up with it all. That probably had something to do with it.’”

“Yanchek added that by signing letters saying he was in possession of escrow money he did not have, he ‘destroyed’ his life. ‘I’ve lost almost my entire practice,’ Yanchek said. ‘If there was a way for me to erase the past two and a half years, I would.’”

“Since March, the number of homes listed for sale in the Sarasota MLS has dropped by 12 percent, or nearly a thousand homes. That still leaves more than 7,000 homes on the market, about three times the normal number.”

“As recently as December 2007, however, the Sarasota MLS showed a glut of about 140 weeks of inventory on hand. As of early June, that figure had dropped to 82 weeks and kept falling.”

“Helping fuel sales is more realistic pricing on the part of sellers, who appear to be getting the message that the boom is dead and buried. Buyers are looking, but many are looking for deals, and all are being discriminating about price. Adding to the mix is a wave of foreclosure sales that are further bringing prices down.”

“In 1994, the median price in Sarasota-Bradenton was just $94,000. Two years later, it crossed the $100,000 threshold, rising to $102,000. By 2000, it had grown to $138,500. The year-end median sales price in 2003 was $189,700, according to Florida Association of Realtors data.”

“By the end of 2004, it had skyrocketed another 29 percent to $244,100. The bubble had arrived.”

“The biggest jump was yet to come. In 2005, the median price rose 32 percent to $322,700.”

“‘It wasn’t a lot different than the dot-com bust,’ said Jody Hudgins, executive VP of First National Bank’s Florida region. ‘It was greed; it was unsustainable. You had easy, irresponsible mortgage money leading to an inflated demand, and you had people who were able to buy and sell their homes for profit without even trying. People were drinking the Kool-Aid.’”

The News Press. “While a slumbering economy has only exacerbated the problem of a housing market riddled with oversupply, the byproduct for golfers has been one of the most attractive golf summers in recent memory.”

“Magnolia Landing, which opened in February 2007, did not advertise for public play in its first summer of business. This summer, though, like many other clubs, it’s taking outside play for as little as $30 while also waiving its $5,000 membership fee in 2008 for home buyers.”

“‘We were trying to sell exclusivity, but it’s hard to sell people on a notion if they haven’t seen the product,’ said Magnolia Landing general manager Jim Whitmore. ‘For us it’s definitely about exposure. We are real estate driven as opposed to membership or golf-revenue driven. Our goal is to sell homes.’”

“A seasonal resident from Michigan, Rollin Bondar has seen firsthand the effects of the slumping economy in the Detroit area.”

“‘I have so many people who have gone out of business it’s scary,’ said Bondar, who lives in Burnt Store Marina but is looking to move if he can sell his condominium. ‘The economy is terrible up here. It’s affected the golf. The country club I belong to here is probably one of the finest in the state. It’s gone from $50,000 to join (to) $5,000.’”

“Back in Florida, he’s seeing the same results of a slowed housing market and glut of golf course communities.”

“‘The economy has affected everything,’ said Bondar, who similarly bounced around a half-dozen private courses in the area before settling on Magnolia Landing to buy a membership. ‘The price was right.’”

“A growing sense of unease, caused by fallout from the current economic slump and the struggle to make ends meet, is seeping into the middle class. In Florida, the uneasiness can be seen in the June drop in the state monthly consumer confidence index to its lowest level. The previous low was in December 1991.”

“Dawn Blauvelt of south Fort Myers feels the uneasiness. ‘My husband and I are in the construction industry and therefore we are affected a lot by the economy the way it is, and have had to make drastic lifestyle changes in order to survive,’ she said.”

“The couple’s business is surviving, but they cut their employees from 130 to 20. ‘You almost turn numb over time,’ she said. ‘It was a big blow. When we went south we went fast.’”

“They still have their home. But they sold extra vehicles like a car and boat. They took their three children out of day care. Blauvelt became a stay-at-home mom, because it’s more economical. ‘We plan to do whatever it takes,’ she said.”

One positive aspect is that when people share a universal cause or condition, their depression and stress can be eased by the knowledge that they’re all in this together, said Dr. Frederick Schaerf, an area psychiatrist.”

“That helps Blauvelt. ‘To know we’re not alone - it’s comforting,’ she said. ‘It’s nothing we did wrong. It’s been out of our control.’”

From WINK News. “Joseph Cardona has lived in his Habitat home for the past three years. ‘It’s a great deal. The house is very comfortable,’ Cardona said.”

“Cardona helped build his own Habitat home, as well as the Habitat house next door. That home is now empty because its in foreclosure. ‘It’s pretty bad,’ Trisha Goins, Habitat for Humanity of Lee County said.”

“Goins says tenants are losing their jobs and not paying their mortgage, so the agency has no other choice but to foreclose on the owners. The price of a Habitat home is in the low one hundred thousands. The monthly mortgage rate is 30% of the owner’s yearly income.”

“In exchange for the hours worked, the owners get a 0% interest mortgage, but Goins say even that has become tough to pay. ‘It’s very scary to see that families are put in a situation where they can’t even pay on a zero interest mortgage,’ Goins said.”

The News Journal. “They offer potentially lucrative returns. But sales of tax certificates — property liens for late taxes — have dragged this year in Volusia and Flagler counties.”

“In Volusia County, more than 2,200 certificates were unsold after two online sales. In 2007, a single sale left only two of 14,911 certificates unclaimed.”

“‘It’s a trend that’s not just with Volusia County,’ said Sally Bruner, Volusia County’s revenue tax manager, of this year’s number. ‘It’s statewide.’”

“Flagler County Tax Collector Suzanne Johnston said she thought large-scale institutional investors had less money to spend this year and were less likely to buy vacant parcels. In Seminole County, Tax Collector Ray Valdes said smaller investors hadn’t been prepared to move into the vacuum created when big players came in with less cash.”

“Still, although almost 1,000 certificates were unclaimed after the county’s first sale, all but a dozen or so were bought in the second, he said. ‘This is my 20th year,’ Valdes said. ‘We’ve never had to do more than one sale.’”

“Roseann Javurek, a Daytona Beach-based Realtor who has been investing in tax certificates for years with her husband, said returns appear to have slowed and investors are leery.”

“‘I still think it’s a great investment, but I think the economy truly has taken its toll,’ she said. ‘I don’t think people have the extra income, if you will, or don’t want to spend the extra income on certificates, even though they are a good return.’”

The Destin Log. “Last week, Destin developer Peter Bos sat down for an interview with the editorial board of the Northwest Florida Daily News. Over the past three decades, Bos has been at the center of a number of upscale developments on the Emerald Coast.”

“BOS: ‘I think we’ve had some horrible growth in the last 25 years. I think what happened was this spike in demand, where a second home became everybody’s entitlement, and financing was readily available.’”

“‘And we had an explosive mark at rental, too, which helped subsidize the carrying cost of these homes for people. I think we ended up with a lot of people developing who really shouldn’t have been in the development business.’”

“‘If you could pre-sell something, and it’s all sold, the next decision after the sales were done was to sit down and decide what you could take out of the building, because it wasn’t promised, because it would fall right to the bottom line. ‘We didn’t promise the pool furniture - outta here. We didn’t promise them tile in the hallways - outta here.’”

“‘We ended up with a whole lot of development that in my opinion was extremely low-quality development.’”

“DN: Real estate sales along the Emerald Coast have plummeted from where they were in 2004 and 2005…Has it been as tough for you as it has for everyone else in real estate?”

“BOS: ‘I think that whenever everyone stopped smoking dope or smelling ether or whatever was going on driving 30 or 40 percent appreciation numbers, all of us knew that would not sustain itself.’”

“‘However, we did not anticipate the pullback and the speed with which it pulled back. We were all making changes and adjusting, but we never anticipated the speed at which everything would literally stop. It didn’t slow down; it stopped.’”

“DAILY NEWS: Where do you foresee the trough, the point where (real estate) hits bottom or starts going north?”

“BOS: ‘I need to put this into context. If you asked me last year, I would have thought we’d already been there. I was absolutely convinced of it. Now that I’ve destroyed my credibility on predicting, it’s my opinion there’s a lot of signs out there that we’re already there.’”

“‘I don’t think ‘there’ - meaning at the trough - is a constant, though, across the board. I think there are products out in the marketplace that are going to be very difficult to sell going forward and I don’t know how low they go, because their only way to compete is price.’”




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79 Comments »

Comment by aladinsane
2008-06-29 08:22:20

Why weren’t there any good jokes that came out of the Jonestown mass suicide, of 30 years ago?

The punchline was too long.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-06-29 08:27:35

Snorting the Kool-Aid™?

Comment by Ann
2008-06-29 08:52:12

Guy who bought my old house in South Florida drank the kool aid..but hey I was able to get out and make lemonade$!!!

Now he is trying to short sale…as of last home sale in the community..he is almost 300K underwater in 18 month$!….

 
 
 
Comment by walt526
2008-06-29 08:26:18

“Javier and Esmeralda Arroyo qualified for a loan on the $166,900 home…after being turned down for loans five times in a year.”

They were turned down FIVE TIMES in 2005/6 for a $167k loan??? I didn’t know that was even possible. There must have been MAJOR credit problems if they had that much problem securing financing.

Comment by Tim
2008-06-29 08:46:54

That’s what I was thinking. If that is not notice that you can’t afford homes in that price range, I dont know what is, and yet now they are whining because they cant make the payments. Couldn’t the author have found a better story, or was the point to show that those in trouble clearly dont deserve any help?

Comment by reuven avram
2008-06-29 09:50:20

He’s also complaining he had no idea the payments adjusted. It’s hard for me to believe anyone savvy enough to keep reapplying for a mortgage 5 times before getting one on the 6th didn’t gain some knowledge about loans and their terms.

In fact, he obviously was changing various things on his applications until he got approved. He knew enough to do that.

I call Bullsh*t on his story.

Comment by palmetto
2008-06-29 10:47:58

“I call Bullsh*t on his story.”

I call complete horsepuckey on it, too. Lemme tellya, folks like these know EXACTLY how the system works and how to game it. They’re not stupid, but when things don’t go their way, it suits them to retreat behind the old “No Habla Ingles”.

Vaya con Diablo.

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Comment by aqius
2008-06-29 11:25:31

well said, Palmy. well said!!

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-06-29 11:40:34

Acrtually its “no hablo ingles”. “No habla ingles” means “s/he doesn’t speak English”

But you are dead on when it comes to illiterate immigrants quickly learning to game the system. Of course they have a wide and deep support system to do this that includes fellow immigrants, helpful churches and clergy, secular immigrant rights organizations, and sometimes even government bureaucrats.

 
Comment by 85701 is overrated
2008-06-29 14:55:26

That’s quite the generalization.

 
Comment by Cecerose
2008-06-29 21:31:43

You think? (eyeroll)

 
 
 
 
Comment by GH
2008-06-29 08:52:40

There are a great many folks working $10 / hr jobs who could not afford loan of that size. At well over $100k as a software engineer I would not consider going higher than 2.5x my gross annual salary … Think about it. The markets are absolutely crazy!

Comment by walt526
2008-06-29 09:07:02

I’m not talking about being able to AFFORD the loan, rather just not being able to QUALIFY for the loan.

If they’re making $20k/yr, then a $167k loan is certainly out-of-reach (8.35x income). But they should have been able to QUALIFY for that loan in the loose lending environment of 2005-06. The only thing that would have prevented them from qualifying would have been an absurdly low credit score.

 
 
Comment by jag
2008-06-29 09:03:18

Still looking for ONE story where there wasn’t abject stupidity, greed or fraud involved.

One.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-06-29 12:14:27

Mary had a little lamb, his fleece was white as snow. And everywhere that Mary went the lamb was sure to go.

How’s that?

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 14:59:26

You don’t think that lamb ended up in Mary’s freezer?

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-06-29 08:30:51

‘The couple’s business is surviving, but they cut their employees from 130 to 20. ‘You almost turn numb over time,’ she said. ‘It was a big blow. When we went south we went fast.’ One positive aspect is that when people share a universal cause or condition, their depression and stress can be eased by the knowledge that they’re all in this together, said Dr. Frederick Schaerf, an area psychiatrist. That helps Blauvelt. ‘To know we’re not alone - it’s comforting,’ she said. ‘It’s nothing we did wrong. It’s been out of our control.’

IMO, Florida is right where Texas was in the 80’s. Notice there are no riots, mass bread lines, etc, like some kept predicting here. I especially can relate to the numb, we’re not alone comments. When everyone is feeling it, the process almost seems normal. And also note that no one there is really focused on house prices anymore. It’s now survival; jobs, keeping a family together.

IMO, that’s what our political leadership should be working toward as well.

Also, it should be pointed out to those crying about your low returns on savings, or how the Fed is mistreating you; my points about opportunity in crisis are on full display in this situation. 18% tax liens for those willing to do the homework. Rehab projects all over the place. People needing work. This is where the repair begins, with individuals willing to take on the risk in the market.

Comment by crispy&cole
2008-06-29 08:51:31

With 30 days left in the summer selling season…the desperation will set in this fall and winter…then the steals and deals will be out there.

Comment by Paul in Jax
2008-06-29 12:22:33

I always thought of the prime selling season (in Virginia) as early March to the 4th of July, and then end of August until mid-November. Between vacations and heat it’s hard to move stuff between now and the end of August, and anybody looking for school changings really needs to get contracts signed before the 4th of July.

I don’t know about steals, but prices have by definition done the majority of their falling when they are off by 50%, and 50% off the peak is not uncommon now in parts of Florida.

 
 
Comment by A.B. Dada
2008-06-29 09:15:00

Absolutely. The rehab stage is here, not in 2009 or 2010, but today. The dollar still has some strength and many “frivolous” items are dirt cheap already.

Example: I run a nation-wide print shop. We have a HUGE niche market (it’s worth about $10 billion a year, and I believe there are maybe 2 corporations dedicated to it other than mine). Last week I received a phone call from some random leasing company in town. Someone leased a $50,000 printer and never made one payment. After 4 months it was repo’d. The leasing company had NO idea what to do with it, and with their defaults up, they listed it on eBay and it received zero bids. I made an offer of $10,000 delivered, $7500 undelivered. Warranty was transferrable. Picked it up after a 12 hour round-trip drive. I will pay it off with profits in less than 90 days. This year I’ll likely earn $20k more after paying it off. That printer will let me hire 2-3 more people this summer.

This past week a Realtor-investor called me. I made an offer on her warehouse in Chicago last year. She wanted $500,000 (5000sqft!). It was completely gutted with permits and approved designed. I offered $250,000 cash. She laughed. Oh, it’s in a terrible neighborhood. She calls me this week and tells me she’s interested in my $250,000 price. I laughed and said “Property always goes down. How far behind are you on the mortgage?” She said things were fine, she’s just ready to unload it. I put her on hold, and 4 minutes later informed her that she is 4 months behind on the mortgage, so my only offer is a short-sale. I told her $200,000 if the bank will approve it. She said she won’t even ask the bank. *click* 3 days later she called and said she’ll make that offer if I put it in writing. I told her the dollar crashed in value even more (thank you gold, for proof!) so I can’t offer more than $175,000. I put it in writing. The bank WILL approve it. I think it may eventually fall to $150k, but I love the property and am willing to lose $25k of book value in the short run against my risk that the area will gentrify in 10 years. (Most of my real estate profit money was made buying in BAD areas in Chicago post-bubbles and waiting for gentrification). Oh, and I’m going to open a new print shop and hire 5-10 people right away. The alderman loves what I want to do, and he’s willing to throw some weight behind it. Clout > nepotism in Chicago.

I found a $2 million offset press and automated production setup (weighs about 18,000 lbs for everything) that I can buy tomorrow for $600,000 cash, including delivery and installation. This is a press that can generate close to $15,000 per day in profit with an established shop. Imagine dropping it into Tennessee or Oklahoma and covering major metro areas with 1 day UPS ground. It’s an amazing deal for something relatively new that will last 30+ years. Anyone want to toss in $300k and make it back in 500 days?

I just found a 2005 Range Rover with only 22,000 miles. Guy was asking a bit much. Not sure why he didn’t take it to CarMax, but I helped a friend buy it for about $8k under NADA value.

IF you have cash, you’re going to see HUGE opportunities. I see them already.

Comment by hip in zilker
2008-06-29 09:24:03

“I laughed and said “Property always goes down. How far behind are you on the mortgage?””

great post - like HBB porn

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-06-29 09:27:22

“IF you have cash, you’re going to see HUGE opportunities. I see them already.”

There it is.

Comment by A.B. Dada
2008-06-29 10:05:00

What does that mean? That once the masses say opportunities abound, it’s over?

I didn’t say “if you have the credit,” I said “if you have the cash.” When I buy equipment, I always look at the cash flow it will create. I’ve never once bought equipment for any business that didn’t go profitable in 18 months or less. Ever.

The greatest part about 2 industries I am in is that they’re growth industries during recessions. I won’t mention which industries those are, but they’re exceptional investments in the short run, horrid in the long run. So it’s a quick profit-taking over 2 years.

I also found another unique market, one untouched by everyone as far as I know. It deals with garbage, literally the stuff you throw away. I don’t mind giving away that freebie advice, but there’s a huge opportunity to be made in the States with OPG (Other People’s Garbage). Huge. If you have the cash. And can stomach the risk.

Most people have no cash and can’t stomach the risk. Why do you think most people get W2s at the end of the year?

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Comment by combotechie
2008-06-29 10:21:00

“What does that mean?”

If you are asking what I mean by saying “There it is”, then I need to modify my response to “I totally agree with you”.

“There it is” is a term that means “That sums it up”, or “There’s not any more to say”.

 
Comment by CA renter
2008-06-30 01:05:33

I’ll add to clarify that combotechie is a cash bull (as am I, IF the USD doesn’t crash).

I think he was emphasizing your point about “those who have cash”.

You both agree with one another. :)

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 09:32:21

You sound like a very savvy individual, with the glaring exception of your taste in vehicles. Range Rovers are overpriced pieces of crap, even by European standards. Buy a Toyota 4Runner if you must have a 4WD SUV. And remember that friends don’t let friends buy British, French, or Italian cars.

Comment by A.B. Dada
2008-06-29 10:01:56

I wish I could agree with you, but I do like sliding the rocks, and the 4Runner is an embarassing piece of architecture when it comes to being able to go from the streets to the cliffs. My Discovery 2 (2001, 105k miles only) is road perfect, gets decent mileage, and tow almost anything (I pull a 15′ trailer for my print company regularly), and can be converted to a rock slider in about an hour. Articulation is exceptional. The 4Runner 4th gen are decent with upgrades, but out of the dealer they’re so-so.

The Land Rover line is simple to maintain once you get over the scary rumors. I recently placed my own head gasket (weekend job) that normally runs about $2100 at the dealer. Basic tools, $300 in new parts, and I was done quickly with one extra set of hands for the opening and closing.

The trucks are horrible if you can’t DIY, but if you can, there’s almost nothing you can’t do yourself. I’m in the market to pick up 2 more Disco2’s on the cheap for parts vehicles and to build up a real off-roader.

I do have to say that I recently slid a new FJ with a ton of upgrades down into a small “canyon” in NV and it blew away anything else I’d driven to date. I think the guy probably dropped $30k in upgrades, though. My Disco2, with all upgrades, cost me under $12k. Lots of easily available parts you can get cheap from FBs. Lots of them.

Next year: Defender. Yes, I really want one. I love oil spots on the driveway! :)

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Comment by aqius
2008-06-29 11:31:31

AB DAba

love yer style. rock on

 
Comment by bradley
2008-06-29 12:30:02

One of the best comment/posts in awhile. I love reading stuff like this, personal anecdotes that illustrate what is going on at ground level, that also teach me a little bit about something other than real estate.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 15:05:01

The range and breath of knowledge in here, on all manner of subjects, is nothing short of astonishing. The information and insights freely available in here, not to mention the wit, makes this blog and its posters a truly unique & indispensable resource for getting through this madness called life in post-bubble America.

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Comment by CA renter
2008-06-30 01:08:08

Amen to that, Sammy! :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven FL
2008-06-29 09:40:03

It pays to stay one tiny step ahead of the Fed.

 
Comment by reuven avram
2008-06-29 09:55:58

I’m very intrigued with bidding on tax lien notes in Florida. But there appears to be some risk.

According to the fine print, if the county decides to reduce or forgive the taxes–which they can do–you get screwed. And I’m wondering if counties will be more willing to do that in today’s environment just to get another owner who will pay the taxes taking over the property.

http://www.comptroller.co.orange.fl.us/taxdeeds.html

Comment by walt526
2008-06-29 10:34:00

Indeed.

I’m not investing in anything that could be swayed by the whims of FL municipal governments.

Comment by Incredulous
2008-06-29 11:28:16

Besides, if someone can’t afford his taxes, how is supposed to come up with 18% interest to pay the certificate buyer? This one of the scummiest ways of making money imaginable. I had a revolting neighbor who did this; she was practically daemonic, and nobody mourned her when she returned to Hell. Back then, however, the interest rate was nowhere near 18%.

In the South, we refer to tax lien buyers as “carpetbaggers” for very good reason. They first popped up after the Civil War, and they’ve been at it ever since.

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Comment by implosion
2008-06-29 16:12:36

“In the South, we refer to tax lien buyers as “carpetbaggers”…”

But aren’t the rates, rules and conditions, etc., set up by your own elected state/local govt’s?

 
Comment by Incredulous
2008-06-29 17:45:01

Yes, the best officials money can buy. Doubtless, many themselves are lining their pockets with tax liens.

 
 
 
Comment by Jeff
2008-06-29 12:25:40

Hey Ben, don’t tell me why it’s ok for me to be screwed. Not everyone has the intelligence and/or the aptitude to take advantage of what you’re doing. If I haven’t done anything wrong, why should I be punished? Screw the U.S. and all the unethical people. What about people on fixed incomes or people that saved all their lives? For some of us being single is hard enough. I don’t need any icing on that cake.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-06-29 12:42:02

You are either screwed or not, regardless of anything I say. I have been consistent in relating that people in the Texas bust who sat on their asses missed out on huge opportunities. These opportunities are presenting themselves again, and you can either act, or do nothing. At the end of the day, how you come out of this is your doing.

What I’ve noticed in interacting with people that simply want to bemoan how circumstances cheat them, is it provides a convenient reason to do nothing, and an excuse when they have nothing to show for it. If that is how you want to approach things, fine. But this is my blog and by god I’m going to continue to reiterate that this isn’t a doom and gloom situation. This is the necessary correction for a disastrous asset bubble. And it’s been said more than once that more money is made in a down market than an up market.

If you aren’t getting returns, etc, that are satisfactory, IMO you should educate yourself about the alternatives. Or you can just complain like 99% of the people in the world.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-06-29 08:37:57

Character Hashshashination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin
______________________________________________________________

“BOS: ‘I think that whenever everyone stopped smoking dope…”

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 08:58:52

“When Ramirez bought his home in 2004, he said, all of his neighbors knew one another. Life was good for about two years. Then the housing market tanked….

This is why I’m in no rush to buy anytime soon. The character of entire neighborhoods and communities is going to be changing, and not for the better, as the housing bust - more accurately a nationwide credit bust - plays out. I want to find a neighborhood with solid, longterm, established homeowners, not a formerly nice neighborhood now lousy with renters (though I’m one myself), FBs, and foreclosures.

Comment by snake charmer
2008-06-29 10:26:41

That part of town — which never should have been developed in the first place — is well on its way to becoming a slum. Close to 30% of the houses in the subdivision featured in the article were purchased by speculators, and I’d guess that half of the remainder went to people who went the sub-prime or liar loan route. With gas prices high, no realistic public transportation, and no jobs in the vicinity other than strip-mall retail, there’s really no reason to live there.

Today’s Tribune had the first few of a planned series of bubble-related articles. Another piece featured some clown from Staten Island who bought seven properties in Clearwater after watching an “America’s Best Beaches” segment on Oprah.

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-06-29 10:41:54

“This is why I’m in no rush to buy anytime soon. The character of entire neighborhoods and communities is going to be changing, and not for the better, as the housing bust - more accurately a nationwide credit bust - plays out.”

Testify, Brothah Sammy! This is EXACTLY how I feel and in Florida, you have to be especially careful. It will all shake out eventually, but I want to see the neighborhoods settle into their longer-term pattern and then buy, IF I buy. Maybe I’ll squat and do an adverse possession move, who knows. But I’m on the sidelines until then.

 
Comment by implosion
2008-06-29 16:16:28

Exactly. As many have said here, many times.

Comment by CA renter
2008-06-30 01:13:57

Us, too. Here in California, things have changed rather dramatically in just the past 10 years. Prices are still way to high to take on that risk (of buying into a deteriorating n’hood) and then you are STUCK!

Lots of time, and things will likely work to our advantage the longer we wait.

Many speculators still have the “housing bubble” mentality and see RE as the path to future riches. I want a couple of waves of foreclosures to process through — and all the neg-am loans — before buying anything that doesn’t have significant, positive cash-flow from day one.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 09:02:04

‘We’re now well aware that the answer is not simply to sell to a flipper. You sell to a flipper right now, and in three years it’s right back where it was.’”

Let the word go forth! I’d love to see communities, as a self-defense measure, start forcing speculators to pay much higher property-tax rates than owner-occupants. I’d also like to see banks charging them much higher interest rates and requiring at least a 30% downpayment in case they choose to walk away from their “investment.”

Comment by Kirisdad
2008-06-29 17:50:37

This is a FL thread right? FL already taxes investor/non-occupant owners much higher rates. The idiots who tried flippin’ in FL never thought they’d turn into long term investors. Now they’re screwed.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 09:08:33

“They still have their home. But they sold extra vehicles like a car and boat. They took their three children out of day care. Blauvelt became a stay-at-home mom, because it’s more economical. ‘We plan to do whatever it takes,’ she said.”

Awesome. Instead of slapping your offspring into kiddie kennels so you can acquire more material things you don’t need and can’t afford, try downsizing and focusing on the things that count - like raising your own children and spending time together as families (and I DON’T mean sitting zombie-like in front of the TV). One only hopes that the tighter economy will have the beneficial impact of forcing people to live simpler but ultimately richer lives, and to reconnect with their friends and families.

Comment by palmetto
2008-06-29 11:29:24

I was thinking along these lines the other day at the grocery store. When I wuz a pup, there wasn’t the selection there is these days or all the pre-prepared foods, etc. Oreo cookies were popular, but if your family was budget minded, as mine was, you ate Hydrox cookies instead. I sort of got in the habit of buying steaks every once in a while, but I don’t do that much anymore. It’s chicken and burgers, for the most part. In some ways, the current economic conditions can force a return to economy and less “stuff” in people’s lives. As a pup, I used to play with a danged old raggy tablecloth that served for a superhero cape, a tent, a costume, etc. Imagination supplied the rest. There is real opportunity for social development in this downturn.

 
 
Comment by OK_Land_lord
2008-06-29 09:12:03

This was too good resist. This goofy gal is trying to get someone to buy her house so she has a place to stay…

I would not touch this girl with somemone elses money, hahahah.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25416138/&GT1=43001

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 09:36:28

Trabosh, a licensed real estate agent who hasn’t practiced in years, knew she would struggle to sell the home in the troubled real estate market…

It’s not a real stretch to imagine a real estate agent trying to sell themselves along with their house. Sounds to me like she’s looking for her own personal bailout and deep pockets to produce an alimony jackpot down the road.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-06-29 11:57:30

Pimp me
Pimp me
Pimp me, bay-bee
Till I lose control
Pimp me with your love
Till I lose control

 
 
Comment by RJ
2008-06-29 10:57:46

Um, aren’t there laws against this kind of thing?

Comment by SaladSD
2008-06-29 11:20:09

Yeah, prostitution is illegal, unless, of course, her house is in Nevada.

 
 
Comment by walt526
2008-06-29 11:08:12

“a 42-year-old single mother is looking for love ”

Not going to happen. Maybe if she was 26…

“Her 21-year-old daughter Haley”

Now we’re talking. Send some risque pics and lower the asking price by 20%, then she might see some actions. Assuming her 21 year-old daughter isn’t Rumer Willis ugly or something.

 
Comment by Molly
2008-06-29 11:10:25

“I would not touch this girl with somemone elses money, hahahah.”

Yeah, ick. She’s only forty-two? She looks at least fifty. Too much plastic surgery sometimes has the exact opposite effect intended.

If she can’t get a man with her other, um, attributes, why would throwing in an overpriced home seal the deal?

Comment by SaladSD
2008-06-29 11:22:44

She has that wind tunnel, trout mouth, basketball boobs, thing going. Oh so attractive.

 
Comment by intheknow
2008-06-29 15:24:39

FYI - that women is 46 (I have ways of finding things out). So she looks pretty good for 46 but nobody is believing that she’s 42 anyway.

Comment by implosion
2008-06-29 16:25:18

The oversell with deceit - once a RE agent, always a RE agent.

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Comment by vmaxer
2008-06-29 11:44:17

“Marry a Princess Lost in America,” Trabosh wrote in the ads”

Princess? What a delusional ego she has.

Comment by deeogee
2008-06-29 12:24:49

people always put down older plastic surgery bleached blond type women,

but honestly she looks way better then most woman that age, like 75% of the woman out there look like total crap by 35-40

Comment by bubblicious
2008-06-29 12:43:51

So do the men.

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Comment by SaladSD
2008-06-29 13:52:15

You lost me at bleached blond… That’s a hard look at any age. And it’s not age, but too much sun, and too much weight, and too much plastic surgery, that makes women look like crap. Most of my plus-40 female friends look a hell of a lot better than the muffin-topped 20 somethings. Meow…

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Comment by deeogee
2008-06-29 15:46:38

I’m not really into the blond look but apparently every man seems to be

I looked at the pics of that lady and I still say she is better looking then 80% of women her age.

Where I live is tropical and there are a lot of women who look like her , too tanned skin, the boob job and they spend some to a lot of time in the gym.

I think they look way hotter then most of the middle aged fatties out there. In fact some of them actually look a lot better then many woman in their 20s

“too much weight” she doesn’t look like she weights over 120#s

 
Comment by crisrose
2008-06-29 18:10:12

Pull the hair back, cover up her chest and take a GOOD look at her face - she’s a dog.

 
Comment by Hazard
2008-06-29 21:07:49

Nothing wrong with a good dog.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 09:21:23

“‘We were trying to sell exclusivity, but it’s hard to sell people on a notion if they haven’t seen the product’…

Um, yeah. It’s even harder to sell “exclusivity” when discerning buyers have seen the product, and can also see that slapping a gaudy facade on something doesn’t make it “exclusive.” [Has there been an apartment complex built in the past eight years that doesn't bill itself as 'luxury'?]Also, the lowbrows who managed to shoehorn themselves into “upscale” neighborhoods with liar loans and other creative financing - or should I say cretin financing - can really pull down the character of entire neighborhoods, especially if they happen to live next door.

I think I’ll buy into “exclusivity” when it means what it used to mean: people with means and at least a mediocum of class and education who naturally seek out neighborhoods and areas where they can limit their exposure to riff-raff.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-06-29 09:26:34

‘To know we’re not alone - it’s comforting,’ she said. ‘It’s nothing we did wrong. It’s been out of our control.’”

Yes, you were victims. We realize you signed those contractual agreements at gunpoint, while drugged and under hypnosis. Greed had nothing to do with it. You had no free will in the matter and were legally barred from doing any kind of due dilligence or seeking out contrary sources of information to counter the NAR propagandists.

Clearly this idiot refuses to learn from her mistakes, and so is doomed to repeat them.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-06-29 09:28:37

How would have thought that the slang term for a place of residence, i.e, Crib, would actually mean that the people inhabiting it were babies, incapable of cleaning up for themselves?

(flashes gang sign)
______________________________________________________________

“Robert Ramirez awoke in the middle of the night to clanging metal and a rumbling moving truck in the back yard next door. Evicted neighbors loaded their belongings and fled the two-story stucco home.”

“They left doors and windows open, and trash and debris strewn across the lawn. It has been eight weeks, and no one has shown up to take care of it.”

“‘This used to be a really nice, close-knit community,’ Ramirez said. ‘Now, with that house here, there’s no way I could sell my house. I’m stuck, and my property value is falling.’”

Comment by Michael Viking
2008-06-29 09:48:35

I especially like how he himself won’t take care of the abandoned home. If my neighbors did this I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t take long before I and other neighbors “shut the doors, closed the windows, and cleaned up the trash and debris strewn across the lawn”. How long could it take and how hard would it be? I don’t know if the appraiser was telling the truth or not about how it was this neighbor house that caused Ramirez’s appraisal to be low, but if it was, Mr. Ramirez got what he deserved.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-06-29 09:55:37

How many checks could Yancheck kite, if Yanchek could kite checks?
____________________________________________________________

“Sarasota attorney John Yanchek has been found guilty by a Florida Bar referee of violating seven Bar rules, including engagement in dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.”

“Yanchek is best known for assisting real estate investor Neal Mohammad Husani in a series of real estate deals from 2004 to 2006 in which land prices were vastly inflated, enabling Husani and his partners to obtain tens of millions of dollars in mortgage loans.”

“Testifying on his own behalf, Yanchek said his misdeeds occurred during a short period of time when the real estate world was booming and he became overburdened with work.”

Comment by palmetto
2008-06-29 10:53:45

The Florida Bar takes it VERY seriously when an attorney messes with his escrow account. It’s pretty much ground for instant disbarment, or it was a number of years back when I knew an attorney who got nailed for it.

Comment by walt526
2008-06-29 11:02:20

As it should be. Escrow is meaningless without strict fidelity, and that would have a deleterious effect on a wide range of commercial transactions.

Comment by palmetto
2008-06-29 11:06:27

Exactly, walt. However, my point was that in Florida, it seems that attorneys can get away with all kinds of shenanigans and get only a mere slap on the wrist, but when it comes to the escrow, don’t even think about it.

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Comment by barbarus
2008-06-29 15:54:13

“Sarasota attorney John Yanchek has been found guilty by a Florida Bar referee of violating seven Bar rules, including engagement in dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.”

Isn’t the actual wording of the bar association documentation “getting CAUGHT violating Bar rules”?

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-06-29 11:18:15

Crappyshacks

“Back in Florida, he’s seeing the same results of a slowed housing market and glut of golf course communities.”

Comment by palmetto
2008-06-29 11:32:52

Good one, laddie. That’s exactly what they are, crappyshacks. Lol. That movie was filmed in Florida, too.

 
 
Comment by BigDaddy
2008-06-29 13:50:55

Seriously, is there anything selling in South Florida that isn’t a short sell, REO, or foreclosure?

In my development, there are at least 2 foreclosures,and the price range of the other 4 homes for sale differ by almost $150,000. There is a foreclosure listed for $350,000, another house for sale for $390,000, a short sale at $420,000( he was 480, then 460- he bought in 2006 at $580) and some for sale by realtors as high as $490,000.

How in the heck do you get a true comp?

Needles to say, I am quite content renting at about half the carry cost of owing one of these albatrosses. The owner just finished paying for the $3500 pool refinishing, the $4000 new HVAC unit, and the $400 dishwasher. Sure, mentally it feels better to own than rent, but had I bought rather than rent this house, i’d be down almost $150,000 in value, and out of pocket twice the amount in monthly mortgage/insurance/tax payment vs. rent payment. Overall, I must be ahead about $200,000.

The next 24 months don’t appear to be any better. Every homeowner chearleader that tried to beg me to buy over the past three years now look at me like I’m a genius. Plus, sad to say, a few have lost their jobs due to the terrible economy. Two have just jingle mailed.

I really think I will be able to buy at 1998-1999 prices in about 2010, another 30% lower.

Comment by CA renter
2008-06-30 01:30:59

Just think…that $150K you saved is equivalent to tax-free income. :)

 
 
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