Prices Are Coming Down Across The Board In California
The Union Tribune reports from California. “Bank of America CEO Kenneth D. Lewis yesterday called on the lending industry to avoid foreclosure whenever possible ‘to help borrowers manage through the current crisis.’ Now it’s time for the lending industry to ‘return to a more disciplined view of risk standards that will protect everyone from a repetition of what we are going through today,’ Lewis said.”
“Lewis said he understood that San Diego area residents have suffered during the housing slump.”
“‘As a city that has experienced some of the most rapid declines in housing prices over the past 10 years, homeowners and neighborhoods are feeling the impact of this downturn more than most,’ he said.”
“‘If borrowers can afford to pay market rates and want to stay in their homes we can and do work with them to make that happen, even when it means modifying the terms of a loan they can no longer afford,’ Lewis said during his presentation. ‘Fortunately, this covers the majority of financially distressed borrowers.’”
“Real estate experts say that suspicious deals helped inflate property values during the boom and that the foreclosures are fueling a faster fall in values in today’s market.”
“One example occurred in Mission Hills. In October 2005, a roughly 1,400-square-foot home was listed for $1 million. It didn’t sell. In early April 2006, it was relisted for $989,000. A month later, the price was raised to $1.3 million.”
“It went into escrow for $1.25 million two days after the price increase. The buyer purchased it with zero-down financing, according to deed records. The lender foreclosed on the home in October. The bank resold it in April. The price: $640,000.”
“‘As an appraiser, I’m asked if properties in Mission Hills have decreased 50 percent in value like this one,’ said Todd Lackner, a real estate appraiser in San Diego. ‘My answer is no. This property was never worth $1.25 million. Many people just assume these foreclosures are part of the subprime meltdown. This is not true. These properties were purchased with the intention of being foreclosed on.’”
“‘Looking back to 2004 when we got into it, it was seen as a pretty small problem’ by the mortgage industry, said Frank McKenna, chief fraud strategist with BasePoint. ‘But at $6 billion a year, you’re looking at something that’s three times the size of credit card fraud.’”
The Press Telegram. “Officials said many homes bought in the past are not assessed anywhere near their market value, which has plunged recently. That means total assessments keep rising, even though some homes are dropping in value.”
“‘In a rising market, because of the 2percent increase cap included in Prop. 13, assessed values do not keep pace with market values,’ said Los Angeles County Assessor Rick Auerbach. ‘On the other hand, in a market such as we now have, the cap keeps us from experiencing a dramatic decrease in assessed value.’”
“Jack Kyser, chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp, said he believes most of the sales activity involves home foreclosures.”
“‘What you are seeing could be called the ‘dead cat bounce,’ Kyser said. ‘What we are seeing is unit sales are up, but prices are still declining and financial institutions are trying to get foreclosed properties off their books.’”
“Most of the new housing developments in the county in the past few years have been built in the Antelope Valley, where problems with subprime loans were more likely, Auerbach said. Amid the housing slowdown, Auerbach’s office recently reviewed 318,000 homes and condos and lowered assessments on 130,000 by an average of $73,000 each.”
The San Gabriel Valley Tribune. “At its peak, IndyMac employed about 3,000 people in the Pasadena area , according to the Pasadena Chamber of Commerce and previous statements from bank executives. The Pasadena staff will be slashed to about 500.”
“The company would like to raise money by selling the bank’s loans but has been unable to get anything close to its asking prices, according to Michael W. Perry, the bank’s CEO. The only way to stay afloat, he said, is to lay off workers and quit funding most home loans.”
“The layoffs will affect Pasadena’s economy, said Paul Little, CEO of the Pasadena Chamber of Commerce.”
“‘The subprime crisis has hit some of our employers pretty hard,’ he said, referring to Countrywide Financial, which also laid off employees from Pasadena offices. ‘That is going to have an impact on the businesses that support them nearby. People who sold them everything from paper clips to lunch would be somewhat concerned.’”
“‘With even less lenders out there, it will make life more miserable for the consumer for a while,’ said Jay Cervenka of Pasadena-based Cervenka & Lukes Mortgage Brokers. ‘It will make it even more difficult to get financing.’”
The Desert Sun. “Fred Bell, executive director of the California Building Industry Association’s Desert Chapter, said construction spending has come to a ’screeching halt.’”
“Single-family home permit activity is off 90 percent year-over-year from 2007 to 2008, he said. The lion’s share of jobs tied to construction is ‘nonexistent’ at this point. That’s significant because one-third of the jobs here are linked to construction activity.”
“‘Land values have declined by about 50 percent, and we’ve also seen a 20 to 25 percent drop in sales price,’ Bell said. ‘People are looking at the numbers on land value and they’re asking, ‘How far is it going to drop?’ It’s pushed a lot of people to the fence.’”
“‘I think we have yet to see the full impact,’ he added. ‘It’s still flowing down.’”
“‘We know prices are coming down in general across the board,’ said Greg Berkemer of the California Desert Association of Realtors.”
“‘The majority of the sales volume at this point is foreclosures,” said Ray Smith, public information officer for Riverside County. ‘They’re selling lower than they had been assessed.’”
The Bakersfield Californian. “Defaulted residential projects continue to pile up in Wasco, the rose-growing town of about 24,300, located 25 miles northwest of Bakersfield. Wasco Village LLC, a 380-unit development planned for the southeast corner of Highway 46 and Magnolia Avenue, defaulted on a $3.2 million loan July 3, county records show.”
“The filing brings Wasco’s tally of defaulted and foreclosed sites to at least nine. All were projects of out-of-town developers.”
“Buyers are in limbo while the bank that repossessed the property figures out what to do, said the spokeswoman for the auction house. When asked what the bank planned to do with the property, a spokeswoman for Indymac Bank, Katie McFadzean, said in an e-mail: ‘Indymac’s company policy states that it cannot comment on specific properties or transactions.’”
The Merced Sun Star. “The fallout from a slumped housing market provoked sharp debate at the Merced City Council’s Monday night meeting, as the council wrestled with whether to give a developer more time to build a bike path and other improvements at a stalled subdivision.”
“The council eventually voted unanimously to send the matter back to staff and consider it again at an August meeting.”
“Resident Tom Grave said he opposed postponing the path because developers in other parts of Merced have been given similar extensions — a pattern that he said hurts citizens. People bought houses in both Moraga and Bellevue Ranch because they thought amenities such as bike paths would soon appear, said Grave.”
“Lakemont’s VP of Land Development Brian Kesler said Lakemont hasn’t sold a house at the Moraga subdivision in eight months, and he doesn’t foresee selling another house for at least a year or 18 months. Kesler said he’s trying ‘desperately hard’ not to shutter the struggling subdivision, put a fence around it and let it become a pile of weeds.”
“‘We’re not trying to get away from building the path, but the machine that drives the building of these improvements is selling houses, and we’re not selling any,’ said Kesler.”
From News 10.net. “The stories of one foreclosure, or a street full of foreclosures have been told. This foreclosure involves nearly an entire development. It’s happening at Oakwood Shores in Manteca. Although a few homes are occupied, nearby models and empty lots are in the foreclosure process.”
“Oakwood Shores is a project by Beck Properties of Stockton. A company spokesman didn’t return calls to News 10. Two other Beck projects in Lathrop are also in foreclosure but the Manteca development is more noticeable because of its location just south of Highway 120.”
“‘This was our dream house. We thought this was our last move. We like the neighborhood. It’s quiet,’ said Ria Cesante, one of the few residents.”
“But she never counted on this kind of quiet. Hundreds of empty lots are covered with weeds. Only a few models and a cul-de-sac have been constructed. The clubhouse is well-decorated but locked up. The pool in back contains a few inches of dark brown water. Miles of shoreline sit empty.”
“Manteca realtor Steve Roland isn’t critical of the decision to build the neighborhood. ‘The timing was terrible, critical. They built a great product. Five years ago it would have been wonderful property to buy,’ he said.”
The Morgan Hill Times. “An initiative to reduce affordable housing from 33 to 20 percent of new homes in Morgan Hill, which residents will vote on in November, would lower the number of home-buying options for the middle and lower classes.”
“The initiative would consider a $725,000 home as affordable to moderate-income earners. The Morgan Hill City Council voted unanimously to place the measure, brought forth by a group of developers and real estate agents, on the November ballot and to write the argument against it.”
“‘(Below market rate units) are not a purchase,’ Santa Clara County Association of Realtors member Shanna Boigon said, referring to liens and stipulations on below market rate homes required by the city. ‘We, Realtors, call that sort of glorified renting. Some of the income (levels I’m seeing), I’m thinking, wait a minute - I could put that person in their own home.’”
The Fresno Bee. “Workers displaced from the real estate industry are finding new jobs in all kinds of places. For Kelly Fitzpatrick, it was in the big-hair business.”
“The former mortgage broker invented a plastic insert designed to give women’s hair volume usually achieved by teasing. She dubbed her business Big Happie Hair and has a patent pending.”
“Fitzpatrick said she sat on the idea for years. She got out of hairdressing and eventually opened a mortgage business called The Loan Broker, which at one point employed 20 people. But business dropped off when house sales dropped and prices plummeted.”
“Fitzpatrick used her savings to start Big Happie Hair about four months ago. She has sold 5,000 of her inserts to the Home Shopping Network and another 2,200 to the Australian home shopping channel.”
“‘We’re not in the black yet, but we’re doing awesome,’ Fitzpatrick said.”
The Marin Independent Journal. “Though his primary job is selling homes, Mill Valley Realtor Peter Richmond saw the mounting foreclosure crisis as a call to help people keep their homes as well.”
“Richmond, who spent 25 years in the lending industry before moving into real estate, documented his wealth of knowledge in his recent book, ‘Save Your House from Foreclosure!’”
“Richmond, who previously wrote ‘The Unofficial Guide to Flipping Properties,’ said banks are open to altering mortgage and loan terms, but it’s not easy to find the right bank official who can help.”
“‘You’ve got to keep banging and banging on the banks; just be persistent until you break down that wall,’ he said.”
“Marin’s foreclosure rate has doubled in the past year, and property defaults continue to grow. Statistics from ForeclosureRadar indicated 705 properties were in various stages of foreclosure within the past 120 days, compared with 676 distressed homes one week earlier. Nearly half of the properties - 334 - were in Novato, with San Rafael accounting for another 200.”
“Richmond said though roughly three of every eight marketed homes in Novato are either short sales or REOs, the crisis touches all corners of the county and includes homes of all prices.”
“Asked how Novato became Marin’s ground zero for foreclosures, Smith said his town likely appealed to first-time buyers who took advantage of loans ‘that aren’t available anymore.’”
“‘If you wanted to live in Marin, Novato is one of the first cities or neighborhoods you would consider because housing prices were more affordable there than anywhere else,’ he said.”
“One example occurred in Mission Hills. In October 2005, a roughly 1,400-square-foot home was listed for $1 million. It didn’t sell. In early April 2006, it was relisted for $989,000. A month later, the price was raised to $1.3 million.”
“It went into escrow for $1.25 million two days after the price increase. The buyer purchased it with zero-down financing, according to deed records. The lender foreclosed on the home in October. The bank resold it in April. The price: $640,000.”
_______________________________________________________________
How many banks have $585k hits like this, in quantity?
Any good reason why you still have your money in an American Bank, aside from that flimsy $100k FDIC promise about to be broken?
They are not taking the hits…investors who purchased the MBS crap are taking the hits…you know like your pension fund manager…
And, in the next graf of the original post, the appraiser said that these properties were purchased with the intention of being foreclosed on.
There is a house near me in Alamitos Heights , Long Beach CA that was purchased for $759,000, sold 5 months later for $1,350.000. No one ever moved in and the place was foreclosed on. It is now listed in the $600 range.
Not a bad way to steal $600,000
But it’s not stealing. It’s all legal. If this was a non-recourse loan, too bad for the bank - unless someone lied on the loan application. Ya think?
I remember when 100K used to be considered a lot of money. The way things are going, hopefully money will be valuable again.
When I moved to CA in 2006 friends/relatives/coworkers couldn’t understand why I wasn’t purchasing a $600-700K POS, like buying at 7-10X income is just the accepted thing to do. Now instead of congratulating me for that decision, they can’t understand why I’m not rushing out to buy a 500k foreclosure POS. My very own mother seems to pity me since I rent, even though I could withstand a multi-year period of unemployment on my savings and I sleep very well at night. On the other hand my sibling is literally going down with the ship with an oversized underwater Mcmansion and very bleak financial situation, mounting debt up to his eyeballs, yet he has achieved homeownership, unbelievable.
Give us your mothers email addy.
“talk amongst ourselves” !!!
does your mo think you should help out?
They won’t respect you until he gets foreclosed on and you buy something at rock bottom.
“Any good reason why you still have your money in an American Bank, aside from that flimsy $100k FDIC promise about to be broken?”
I agree 100% The main stream media will not tell you before hand that there is a problem. YOU MUST do your own homework.
Not withstanding the comment below about MBS’s being sold as a way to off load mortgaes, but banks also have off book holdings called SIV’s (structured investment vechiles). In other words pension funds, banks, investmenmt firms, and even coporations all brought some kind of leverged product. And most are having liquidity problems right now as these products lose value. It wasn’t fixed from last August and this March, just judgement day postponed.
The FDIC does say in case of a bank failure you will get your money in 48 hours (I think it’s 48). But they don’t guarantee what that money will be worth.
Try to find the safest bank (s) in your area for your deposits.
http://www.weissratings.com/Products/BANK_rating_online.asp
http://www.ambest.com/banks/bdrguide.asp
This Housing Bust will affect us all
Suspicious 2,
Oh Dear!
This shitte is global - where to wager?
Best,
Leigh
Ben - great thread
“Fitzpatrick used her savings to start Big Happie Hair about four months ago. She has sold 5,000 of her inserts to the Home Shopping Network and another 2,200 to the Australian home shopping channel.”
“‘We’re not in the black yet, but we’re doing awesome,’ Fitzpatrick said.”
The company I work for says the same thing. I give them another year before they are out of business. Happy Pappy?
Set your standards low enough and you will never fail.
In my neck of the business world, not being in the black isn’t usually equated with “doing awesome.”
My initial guess was that what she is trying to say is that she hopes to recoup start up costs and research and development costs through future volume sales, and she is on track for meeting her goals. Her myspace is rather humorous though, and gives me pause as to any quick conclusions as to whether she has any idea what see is actually saying or what planet she is on. Her favorite books are 4 hour work week and the bible.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=281124616
She should think of merging with “Top Coverage”, the spray on answer to baldness touted some many years ago.
While I certainly don’t support fake anything on women, at least she’s got ideas that she’s trying to translate into a business.
But, again, why all the fakeness in an attempt to “Make women feel confident.”
If people lack confidence, I blame bad parenting. That’s a mighty high hurdle to overcome with big hair.
I dunno sleepless, I would feel pretty awkward if I were bald. That’s not within the normal range for a woman.
mmmm…true. Although baldness is kinda out there on its own island for me (pertaining to both men and women).
Fake nails, hair, face (plastic or morbidly cosmetic), push-up, tummy tucks on the other hand…blech!
Agreed, Slim…
Maybe the hip hair plastic/wedgie teaser was able to refinance the start-up loan, take out a little cash, for, what, spa treatments?
The SBA must have a Spa Development Center for the Disenfranchised as part of its mission.
Big happy hair went out of style after the eighties.
But it’s never out of style if you lack self confidence. Take it from Ms. Big Happie Hair.
Eighties? We only got the memo in here in Utah a couple years ago!
I think Fitzpatrick infringed on my patent, Big Happy Pubic Hair. Nothing like a big bushel in the undies to give one self assuredness and a feeling of sensuality. When you take your pants off, you only get one chance to make a great first impression. No wonder why they called it the Garden of Eden.
You could then branch out with Big Nappy Pubic Hair.
“‘If borrowers can afford to pay market rates and want to stay in their homes we can and do work with them to make that happen, even when it means modifying the terms of a loan they can no longer afford,’ Lewis said during his presentation. ‘Fortunately, this covers the majority of financially distressed borrowers.’”
If borrowers can afford…??? I think that’s the problem affordability…the elephant in the room is that if most would not have taken out stated loans they would not be in this predicament as far as Lewis’s statement regarding covering the majority of the financially distressed…well that part is a lie…
Yeah, I wondered about that statement, too. What does he mean if they “can afford to pay market rates”? If they can, then they should not be in distress. Is this a tacit admission that BoA is charging more than market rates?
And I agree that the last part is a lie. Just look at the percentage of FBs that move from NOD to FC (high and getting higher), and you can see that a majority cannot be saved by a loan modification (at least not a simple lowering of the interest rate; maybe if the bank was writing down principal and lowering the interest rate then a majority could be covered, but banks aren’t doing that and probably won’t).
“Yeah, I wondered about that statement, too. What does he mean if they “can afford to pay market rates”? If they can, then they should not be in distress. Is this a tacit admission that BoA is charging more than market rates?”
The issue isn’t necessarily about the ability to pay market rates, at least not yet and certainly not long term rates - yet. The bigger issue is the size of the principal. Most that bought around the time of the peak of the bubble borrowed too many multiples of income. General credit worthiness and loan terms are secondary factors.
If you can get the principal down to a reasonable multiple of income - not more than 3x, the borrower should be able to make payments on a market rate loan for that amount. I have my doubts that there’ll be large scale modifications of loans on these terms.
I agree your better off foreclosing and redoing new loans with 20% down and 3x income.
Nothing personal but with the housing market in a downturn and and the mother of all recessions looming the chance are the FB will lose his job and he will be underwater in a few months anyway lowering the loan amount does not create equity unless you set it 20% below market value. At least with 20% down and a decent income to loan value the chances of further losses are much lower.
This does not mean banks are yet willing to unload foreclosures at any price but it does mean they are far more interested in settling these losses and getting loans that have a much better chance of performing and a better chance of recovery if the default.
Given that they really can’t sell loans anymore and have to keep them on the books performing loans are where the future is.
BofA is more than happy to work out mortgages with people now that they have that big stinking pile of crap from CW.
Oh, I dunno, Sailor.
I made a offer on a Countrywide REO 10 weeks ago. Bid rejected. No surprise there; they seemed paralyzed or afraid. Anyway, the kicker is that the property was handed over to some Real Estate A(ge)nt. The thing is listed on millions of data bases everywhere.
There isn’t an offering price.
They can’t make up their “minds.”
Other experiences may differ. This is Fresno, where women calling themselves Grrls (sp?) still play roller derby. And people pay to watch.
“Richmond, who spent 25 years in the lending industry before moving into real estate, documented his wealth of knowledge in his recent book, ‘Save Your House from Foreclosure!’ . . . Richmond . . . previously wrote ‘The Unofficial Guide to Flipping Properties.’”
Isn’t that ironic. I wonder if they are sold as a matched set or if you get a discount on the second if you can prove you bought the first.
I guess more people should have bought the official guide.
Richmond learned the value of product tying and repeat business early in his career.
Yeah, the MIJ couldn’t bring themselves to juxtapose those little nuggets, so I helped them out. Aren’t I a stinker…
lol, ornery?
“Bank of America CEO Kenneth D. Lewis yesterday called on the lending industry to avoid foreclosure whenever possible ‘to help borrowers manage through the current crisis.’
Um, yeah. All those FBs who took out liar loans and are now $100K underwater on their crapboxes have no greater desire than to “manage through the current crisis,” being the principled and moral individuals that they are. They ARE managing the crisis - by leaving the keys on the granite countertop and walking away. Lewis and other bankster CEOs should be more focused on identifying and fixing the reckless lending and other systemic lapses that enabled the housing bubble in the first place, rather than placing a misplaced hope that most of these FBs need help “managing” their disastrous [and deserved] financial predicaments.
Lewis has to express his deep concern for FBs to help legitimize the mortgage rescue plan. I still want to see the breakdown of how much of the rescue moneys will go to lenders versus actually helping buyers stave off foreclosure.
Good grief, PB, you didn’t really think the bailout was for homeowners, did you? BOA bought Countrywide and is arranging their own bailout. Pretty sweet, huh?
The National Review has a copy of an internal document on BOA letterhead that pretty much matches the Dodd-Shelby Bill. And in it they say “We believe that any intervention by the federal government will be acceptable only if it is not perceived as a bail-out of the bond market.”
“mortgage rescue plan” - Banker Bonus Preservation Act?
Nothing but a PR campaign. All in BOA’s plan. Buy Countrywide on the cheapo, write your own bailout plan and cash in.
Whatever happened to Mole Man? I can’t believe he is not jumping in here to tell us how stoopid we all are for objecting to the Bank of America bailout plan.
“Marin’s foreclosure rate has doubled in the past year, and property defaults continue to grow. Statistics from ForeclosureRadar indicated 705 properties were in various stages of foreclosure within the past 120 days, compared with 676 distressed homes one week earlier.”
Wait until the option ARMs start resetting and recasting in size in late 2009. The Marin housing market is going to be a bloodbath.
Keep the popcorn popping,
Red Baron
Hmmm….so Marin has 708 houses in “various stages of foreclosures” and only 178 houses sold in May.
Good luck with that -);
Can’t wait to see what that does to the comps moving forward.
Like I said, when they start selling St Joseph statues, run for the hills.
I’m still waiting for the option ARMs and I/O loans to explode here in OC, too. We have plenty of foreclosures, but most were from subprime ARMs (which typically reset after 1 or 2 years) and fraud, so they have hit the low end much more. The permabulls are still claiming that the high end hasn’t been, and won’t be, hit by foreclosures. But it’s just a matter of time until the option ARMs and I/O loans (both typically recast after about 5 years, although there were some I/O loans that stay I/O for 10 years) start going into foreclosure in huge numbers. 2009 and 2010 are going to be tough for the high end here in OC.
Hey guys,
Anybody have any clue what is going on with the market in Pacific Palisades or Brentwood? Just curious…
Thanks,
W
Somewhere in Brentwood, OJ Simpson is still looking for the real killer. Other than that, I’m not too sure.
across the board baby!
Palisades is definitely slowing down and realtors know they are in for a slog, but sellers haven’t budged much. On the low end, you probably have a year or two before you see any substantial discounts. On the high end, I wouldn’t be surprised if prices fall for four years. Asking prices for nice places in the Palisades are unreal.
I’m sitting here almost in between the two markets, in north Santa Monica (90402/3). Here is what I have noticed this spring:
o Lots of condos for sale. A few seem to be selling, but not many.
o Lots of houses for sale, only a tiny number are selling.
o Negligible movement on asking prices. I can’t tell what the few sales actually went off at, haven’t checked the county records.
o Some single-family houses are available for rent: this is unheard of around here, at least for the last ~15 years or so. Asking rents are ludicrously high, starting around $5500/mo. and running to $15K+.
o Lots of Condo/Townhouse units for rent starting around $3500 and up.
o Apartment vacancy rate running about 8%, very high for this area - it’s normally around 2%.
I am looking in the westside - west LA, Culver city. Prices have not moved much and are still way out of my range. A long way to go before I even consider buying…..
(may not even bother, renting is fine, may not want to stay here long term after all, some areas really getting crappy)
Saw a house in Culver (90232) today asking $629k, right around the corner and in a better location than one that was asking $839k.
Oh, and the $629k one has a full sized lot, where the $839k one from 2 years ago was only a partial lot. So, things are changing.
Whoever plunked down for the $839k one must be doing alright because I noticed that they planted flowers all around the proprty.
… maybe they are getting ready to sell … ?
try this.
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Santa_Monica-California/
$1.3 million for a 2 bedroom condo? Who would fuc*ing buy that? Are they insane?
Yes.
Sometimes you just have to answer the rhetorical question for added effect.
I remember a friend of mine buying a similar sized condo in that part of Santa Monica (Ocean Park) for about $350k in 1998, and thinking he was nuts. Funny thing is that the neighborhood was actually a bit ghetto at the time, and for all I know still is.
“‘As an appraiser, I’m asked if properties in Mission Hills have decreased 50 percent in value like this one,’ said Todd Lackner, a real estate appraiser in San Diego. ‘My answer is no. This property was never worth $1.25 million…”
I track this area of town and the realtors like to claim that PPSF should be anywhere from $500 to $750. Even this one superseded that and it probably wasn’t special in terms of architecture or design. They drink the kool-aid by the gallon out there in mission hills, but the vulture funds will be coming in any day to scoop up those bargains.
When I lived in Hillcrest, circa 1996, I remember the top priced homes in Mission Hills were about $750K, but you could get the average to nice stuff southwest of the medical center for about $400K. And the land was already overbuilt at that point! There is no justification for a tripling of ppsf since then.
I remember it being a helluva lot cheaper than that in 1996.
http://www.stuartxchange.org/Jeepney.html
Calling all investors: I’ve hit upon an idea whose time has come. With $4 gas and legions of FBs, I’m going to import and operate my own fleet of Jeepneys. What better, cheaper, and brilliantly tacky way is there to get around during a recession?
Saw the Jeepneys when I was in the Philippines about 5 years ago. Some of them truly are works of art; most are, as you say, “brilliantly tacky.” I never did ride in one though, since I had no idea where they were going and taxis were dirt cheap.
Bring ‘em to the OC, I’ll hitch a ride.
“The initiative would consider a $725,000 home as affordable to moderate-income earners. The Morgan Hill City Council voted unanimously to place the measure, brought forth by a group of developers and real estate agents, on the November ballot and to write the argument against it.”
….this kind of thinking only happens in California……
The MHT runs the most baffling articles on affordable housing programs. I usually don’t post them. But one I remember was where they raised it $100,000 to 300 or so, because otherwise the developer would lose money as the market rate prices weren’t holding up, or something like that.
With a median income of under $70,000, less than half of San Deigo households can ‘afford’ one of these ‘affordable’ homes at a multiple of less than 10 times their annual incomes.
Hmmmmmm……..
You didn’t look at the full sentence in the article:
For example, the initiative would consider a $725,000 home as affordable to moderate-income earners, although a household typically must earn at least $212,000 to buy a home at that price …
$212,000 is a moderate-income earner !!! I don’t know many zip codes where median income is above $212,000.
I would venture to say there are no zip codes expect perhaps for some on the Upper East Side of Manhattan with a $212K median household income. Even in Belvedere–the heart of old money Marin–the median household income is “only” $130K or so.
Keep the popcorn popping,
Red Baron
Atherton is like $225 or something.
Also Hillsborough and Woodside to the north, and all of these localities have successfully fought the law of the land which states that a small percentage of housing units must be available as affordable housing. California’s land use conflicts, let me show you them.
I’m trying to imagine someone with an Atherton income even knowing how to find Morgan Hill on a map, let alone wanting to buy a house there.
I’m actually surprised that Atherton’s median is that low.
Then again, I’d bet that the AVERAGE is far, far, higher than the median.
Hmm easy enough to find 81k is the median for Marin in 2006.
Not 130k
In fact not even close.
At 5x income that gives a median home price of 405.
And thats the top of any sort of sane loan concept.
We are going way way down.
There are no zip codes in San Francisco or Marin with that median income level for a family.
This one is close (with dated information) so maybe by now…?
“The median income for a household in the city was $130,796, and the median income for a family was $185,590. The per capita income for the city was $113,595.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belvedere%2C_Ca
To be fair, the household income stats also include retired households, making the median incomes artificially low.
When they say “household income,” does anyone wonder if perhaps they may refer to more than 2 income earners? Multiple families in a household? Does anyone think that their expectations are bordering on that?
Anyway, just gotta say that this blog has been very informative.
Here is an example of the kind of crap being written by the Bay Area bloggers justifying their RE prices…blame Google and Yahoo!
It’s different here!
You realize that site is satire right?
brc12,
Burp…er…
Satire?
Buhrupmppppp!
Suposition?
(fraking tinfoil hats)!
Leigh
I realize that your comment that the site is a satire is itself satirical. Or something.
OMG! $95K at 24 years old?? I must not have been paying attention in college.
Okay guys, a very small percentage of people in Yahoo, Google, etc. are making those kind of salaries. A few got lucky with the stock options. Actually, a friend of mine made out 25 million dollars at Google but he was there in the first year it started. I hear this all the time on how much money you can make working at those companies. Small percentage. very small.
Is it true only about 10% of Google employees were there at the IPO…?
Are the others, ordinary Googlaires (the majority of the company), having an impact on such a large real estate market - to the degree the REIC would like everyone to believe?
Let’s do some very crude calculations and assume some of these Googlers are conservative (fixed payments, 20% down) market participants and very savvy as to the best time to exercise their options. Since there’s already been a record run up in house prices, let’s also assume all the early Googlaires have already bought houses, as they are living the gravy train lifestyle by now.
First, options have to vest and some of those who started at Google since early ‘06 (looking at the chart) haven’t as much to be excited about with regard to their options compared to earlier employees; 1/3/06 price = ~$465/share; today ~$550/share, with highest price in late October ‘07 of ~$710/share (before early ‘06 the rise in price was steep).
For one to have started before the majority of Googlers but not at IPO (nor during the “early days”), at essentially 1/1/06, and have pocketed the peak “value” per share ($710-$465 = $245) , they’d have had to exercise shares less than two years into their service (so perhaps less than 1/2 vested) - by late October 2007.
So of a grant of say, 5,000 shares, approximately 2187.5 shares would have vested and been exercisable (assuming quarterly vesting) in late October 2007.
2,188 * $245 = $535,938 (I suppose this is the most difficult part; the number of shares could be under or over estimated to some degree - the latter “average” employees may have been granted much less, with fewer superstar types getting far more)
If they’re buying a house now, or in the recent past, they’re paying tax at current income rates, rather than cap gains rates. Let’s figure 40% (??) goes to the Feds and Sacramento combined, so they get a check for $321,563.
No doubt, if they all had that exquisite a sense of timing, that’s a very nice downpayment for each of them. How many were hired early in ‘06 and shortly thereafter and met all of these assumptions?
Well, I would guess this represents the best case scenario attained by at most a few hundred Googlers over this time frame (given hiring date, Google stock price, market savvy and timing constraints)… is this enough to support ongoing median house prices of around $1 million in very average neighborhoods (for, in some places, a crapshack)? Especially if said person’s income is around $100,000? Given the quoted number from the link is accurate and that they are young and single?
I guess one has to think how much the ordinary Googler is excited to buy the median house and still have a mortgage at nearly 7x their income, especially when they can rent a “million dollar house” for around $3,000 a month. And when house prices are due for a decline, if not a significant decline.
In any case, it does appear your average Used House Salesperson in the Alt-A Bay Area wants you to think the former is what excites all of them presently.
Instead, as we know, what Googlers will find out if they haven’t already, is that much of the cause of insane house prices locally is the result of a mania - and which we are all so familiar with these days, unfortunately.
I agree with you completely.
Once Google’s stock “only” goes up by $100 a year for a few years, and since most option grants are far less than 5,000 shares (to my understanding), the flood of Googlers able to/willing to buy expensive houses will evaporate, and the wind will go out of the housing market’s sail, so to speak.
It’s like cutting off free money on mortgages, there is some momentum that keeps things going for a bit, but new buyers go away.
Especially when you consider that banks will now look at actually W-2 salary, and not a number put down by a borrower that included option money (that may not be there in the future).
There is an article in the NYT about Google’s “fumble” on daycare. This is not a company where everyone is wealthy, but a place where there are a few VERY rich, scattered about amongst the rest of the employees who are trying to make a go of it with kids/daycare, etc. in a very expensive part of the world.
The Google effect is overblown, and will burn itself out, IMHO.
Hmmm. Morgan Hill. This town is south of San Jose and north of Gilroy by a long shot. When you mention $700K for a house in MH, they are drinking too much Kool Aid. A lot are travelling to the Bay Area to work so I bet they are spending about 600-800 dollars of gas a month. It’s a slow death I tell you…a slow death…
My wife and I looked at some of these 3500 sf+ houses in late 2004 in MH. All house and very little lot space. Town lacks amenities such as good medical, shopping, etc. Almost all people looking at that time were Asian, typically in the 20-30 age range, driving BMW or BZ and had grandparents in tow. It appeared that it was going to be a family living arrangement. I didn’t realize at the time that the neighborhoods were 30% affordable housing but that helps explain all the buying. The affordable housing issue in this whole bay area to Salinas will keep me on the sidelines as I have no intention of paying full fare while others get a free ride.
morgan hill is in hell. no way 700k, not for a whole block of houses…
A lot are travelling to the Bay Area to work so I bet they are spending about 600-800 dollars of gas a month.
Not a certainty. Caltrain has 3 morning trips from Gilroy N/B and three S/B trips to Gilroy in the evening.
As I understand it, the state requires cities to make sure that a certain amount of affordable housing is built within their limits. This gives rise to no end of total weirdness - like in Fremont where I (and JB and nearby, BV) live, they’re actually insisting that they have to build umpty-thousand units of housing no matter what.
But anyway, what the developers are trying to do here is to say that everything they’ve got (that they can’t sell) is affordable, and thus they don’t have to build *really* affordable housing as required by previous agreements with the city which are outgrowths of the state laws.
and yeah, in large swaths of San Jose and surrounding environs, 700K is considered close to entry level. Really, in vast neighborhoods if you don’t have a million, you gotta keep walkin’.
“Really, in vast neighborhoods if you don’t have a million, you gotta keep walkin’.”
Er, maybe you meant…”if you can’t find some sucker lender to loan you a million, you gotta keep walkin’.”
(not aimed at us)
Must be nice to have ‘MOL’ quarters.
Hey, if it works, it’s killing me.
Leigh
The ratio of jobs to housing in the Bay Area is so borked it isn’t funny. That has given many communities some push on this since there is evidence that almost any housing that actually gets added to the area inventory is almost certain to be occupied.
“The initiative would consider a $725,000 home as affordable to moderate-income earners.”
Man, here I go again:
OMIGOD THAT IS INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!
“The initiative would consider a $725,000 home as affordable to moderate-income earners. The Morgan Hill City Council voted unanimously to place the measure, brought forth by a group of developers and real estate agents…”
The key thing is this measure was brought forth by developers and real estate agents. They have no interest in there bring affordable housing ever. If they can’t get rid of affordable housing guidelines, they’ll simply try to adjust “affordable” thresholds to absurd levels.
Many of the current builders deserve to be crushed out of existence.
While it should be possible to build affordable, energy-efficient housing, it will never be done by most of the current builders.
You missed a zero, Kenny Boy…
“‘As a city that has experienced some of the most rapid declines in housing prices over the past 100 years, homeowners and neighborhoods are feeling the impact of this downturn more than most,’ he said.”
Largest marijuana bust in Tulare County
78,524 pot plants destroyed; crop would have yielded more than $314 million in sales.
http://www.fresnobee.com/270/story/706469.html
_______________________________________________________________
Pot Marjoram is worth 50 Cents an ounce, the other kind of pot is worth $400 an ounce.
That disparity in price between the 2 plants, tends to attract Mexican mafia types that are just updated Al Capones, nothing more.
It appears to be plainly visible on Google Maps! Check out these coordinates:
36.300324,-118.813362
(This is roughly 4.5 miles east of the street address given in the article, and looks to be the middle of nowhere on the edge of Giant Sequoia National Monument.)
If drug testing weren’t ‘de riguere’, I might take up camping right about now.
ffffffffffffffwaaaa?
“I’d have to say this covered about 15 acres,” Boudreaux said. “The plants were about 4 or 5 feet apart, in rows that went across an entire mountainside.”
Imagine growing $325 Million worth of herb on just 15 acres?
Imagine it happening in hundreds if not thousands of locations, elsewhere in the Sierra Nevada?
Imagine wiping out California’s budget blues?
Imagine legalizing it, and making it so.
You really think the Calif budget problems are due to insufficient tax revenues?
Revenues could quadruple and they’ll easily spend twice that.. piece o’ cake.. those guys in Sac are pros.
That really view doesn’t hold up when you look closely. California is now middle of the pack with taxes and repeated audits find the government run as well as any other. The big line items are taxpayer mandates. Three Strikes is hugely expensive and people sweep that under the rug even though it is the biggest reason why prisons now get more than schools. Unless you can point out specific unsupportable spending then I call BS.
Might it be middle of the pack in spending because Proposition 13 requires a 2/3 majority in both legislative houses before increasing any state tax or the amounts of revenue collected?
You make good points bue i wasn’t addressing how much they have to spend or what it’s spent on.
My point is that any windfall of revenues due to something like legalizing and taxing ‘illicit’ drugs would be pissed away in a heartbeat. It won’t go where it’s intended to go.
We saw it with the Lottery, which moneys now end up in the general fund instead of in the schools. We’ll see it again if a new source of revenues is created.
and I don’t accuse Calif exclusively. It’s the nature of govt to grow itself into an ever more insatiable animal. We were warned 232 years ago to keep it small, or else.
California doesn’t seem to need more WEED. They’re quite high enough on the KOOLAID
Oh, if you legalized it the price would plummet to less than 1$ per pound. Same with other drugs.
I’d like to legalize it but every ding dong hippy liberal would get all stoned and kill themselves, no big deal, and others which would be bad.
Or worse not quite kill themselves.
Then they show up for socialized medicine crying about their problems.
I don’t know. Take all the dollars we have to waste on DEA/prisons/exc and waste it all on medical care for the lunkheads that do drugs.
Do you really think that “every ding dong hippy liberal” isn’t getting all stoned all the time now?
“Two hits of this and you’ll be hugging trees.”
I probably shouldn’t have put the “liberal” in there. Plenty of my “conservative” friends seem to light up as well.
Just worries me that they all drive.
Yeah, they all seem to have plenty of drugs; but hopefully the current system is keeping them from activities that would harm others or spend my tax dollars putting them back together.
“Pot Majoram is worth 50 cents an ounce, the other kind of pot is worth $400 an ounce.”
Question: Why would a pot grower even to bother with 50 cent pot when for the same risk he can grow $400 pot?
Quote: Question: Why would a pot grower even to bother with 50 cent pot when for the same risk he can grow $400 pot?
Answer: The same reason a man would go to a 50 cent hooker instead of a $400 one.
$400 an ounce.. wtf.
i’ll date myself and admit i remember $10 lids..
LOL, joey, me too.
Yeah, when did we start experiencing a doobie bubble?
I KNEW IT! THATS WHERE ALL THE FEDS MONEY IS GOING!!!!
I’m not asking about the consumer, I’m asking about the grower.
I’ve always been highly suspicious of LEO estimates of the value of their latest bust. The bust the factory, and value the inventory at full retail. Why? The bigger the number the more successful you are, the more successful you are the bigger your budget for next year, rinse, lather, repeat.
Reality is closer to $2k per plant, so the LEO estimate on this caper is about double real street value, now worth just a measly $160 million, or so.
I call bullshi* on the $314 million value. I’ve known a number of people who grew this stuff and no way did they make that kind of money. These values are there only to make the bust look really good. Maybe it’s time to keep the business in the States instead of offshore. At least the profits would stay here.
Yeah, a friend of mine was busted for cultivation some years back. He said they pulled the whole plant up. Weighed the root ball and soil and counted it as part of the bust.
“Richmond, who previously wrote ‘The Unofficial Guide to Flipping Properties,’ said banks are open to altering mortgage and loan terms, but it’s not easy to find the right bank official who can help.”
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471799106.html
Scum Sucking Heathen
or
How I ruined the country.
“The company would like to raise money by selling the bank’s loans but has been unable to get anything close to its asking prices, according to Michael W. Perry, the bank’s CEO.”
Sounds like IndyMac has the same problem facing a lot of homesellers: A shortage of GFs willing to pay their wishing price.
Kyser rolls over dead cat bounce…
______________________________________________________________
“Jack Kyser, chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp, said he believes most of the sales activity involves home foreclosures.”
“‘What you are seeing could be called the ‘dead cat bounce,’ Kyser said. ‘What we are seeing is unit sales are up, but prices are still declini
“‘If borrowers can afford to pay market rates and want to stay in their homes we can and do work with them to make that happen, even when it means modifying the terms of a loan they can no longer afford,’ Lewis said during his presentation. ‘Fortunately, this covers the majority of financially distressed borrowers.’”
Huh? If borrowers could pay market rates and afford a loan on more favorable terms, there would be absolutely no need for a $300 bn taxpayer-funded guarantee.
He was hoping someone wouldn’t point that, or the record number of foreclosures, out.
“We are going to bail you out! We are going to reduce your monthly payment!”
“Gee.. awful nice of you. But is there any way you could keep the ‘bail’ part? I’m a couple hundred grand underwater, and all i want is ‘out’.”
Again, your math is way off. The $300 billion in taxpayer funding is not for the loans, it is for the insurance on the refinanced loans. That program is known to be applicable to a maximum of about 400,000 people which means that only a tiny fraction of distressed borrowers are involved. If you actually look at the details of the bill most borrowers who are well underwater have no chance at that deal.
Since you object to my arithmetic, let me try once again (but I expect you to provide the corrected calculation the next time you object to my maths):
400,000 people helped by loan refinancing
$300,000,000,000 in insurance on refinanced loans
$300,000,000,000 / 400,000 = $750,000 in insurance per refinanced loan
That’s a lot of insurance per loan, in my opinion.
But please don’t stop by telling me my math is wrong; I would like to see your corrected version.
A rose by any other name than Wasco would smell as sweet?
“Defaulted residential projects continue to pile up in Wasco, the rose-growing town of about 24,300, located 25 miles northwest of Bakersfield. Wasco Village LLC, a 380-unit development planned for the southeast corner of Highway 46 and Magnolia Avenue, defaulted on a $3.2 million loan July 3, county records show.”
Peter Richmond: If you wanted to live in Marin, Novato is one of the first cities or neighborhoods you would consider because housing prices were more affordable there than anywhere else.
FB: I drink your milkshake. I drink your milkshake. I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!
Oh great, now I want a milkshake……..
LOL. Still not sure if I liked, loved, or merely tolerated that movie, if that is what your milkshake reference was….
I think the milkshake reference was to the Kelis song. However, Peter is a dude and I for one do not condone or promote male breast tissue in public or private. Milkshakes should strictly be given by women, in all types of flavor, with chocolate sprinkles on top for good measure.
Fantastic acting, first scene was absolutely astounding.
Ending was a wee bit out of character for the rest of the movie, although the milkshake line will be one for the ages.
That being said, never want to see it again.
Can’t stand watching kids get hurt. I’ve turned into a total wimp.
Okay…that movie rocked! Daniel Day Lewis is possibly the best character actor alive. I would watch “There Will Be Blood” another 50 times. Wish I could find it cheap on DVD.
“”Getting the nation through the housing downturn will require federal help, he said. Congress is considering a mortgage rescue measure that would give lenders incentive to modify distressed mortgages.
In part, it would insure up to $300 billion in loans for at-risk borrowers. A key critic, House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, has called it a bailout for scam artists and borrowers who took on more debt than they could afford.”"…
“Getting the nation through the housing downturn will require federal help, Bank of America CEO Kenneth Lewis says.”
Dontcha just love the genius?
BOA Lewis bum buddy of ‘of Hank.
Yeah, this will work out well…
Sigh,
Leigh
P.S. HAR! It’s toooooooooooooooooooooooo beeeeg. Idiot(s).
Can’t wait for Peter’s Richmond’s new book in 2012… “Survival Strategies for the Starving Real Estate Agent/Developer”
A friend in South Orange County just bought a shortsale condo
previous owners paid 375K, she got it for 180
She will rent it with positive cash flow, she says
I just wonder how low those condos will go, and how high the HOA fees when everyone else forecloses
“‘The subprime crisis has hit some of our employers pretty hard,’ he said, referring to Countrywide Financial, which also laid off employees from Pasadena offices. ‘That is going to have an impact on the businesses that support them nearby. People who sold them everything from paper clips to lunch would be somewhat concerned.’”
So shocking. Drive down Pasadena’s Lake Avenue business strip during the heyday and you’d think that mortgage companies were the only game in town. IndyMac, Countrywide, Full Spectrum (Countrywide subprime unit), WaMu, Wells Fargo, etc. - the list goes on.
One of the many reasons I decided to continue renting in Pasadena was that upon the bubble collapse, an above average number of foreclosures were likely to ravage the area as the hundreds of mortgage workers find themselves unemployed and facing foreclosure. It’s sad, but you can say that nobody saw it coming.
I really wish that Pasadena, a city with so much going for it, can bounce back around sustainable industry once again. Real estate sales and finance just doesn’t add a lot of value to society.
Errr….I mean to say “can’t say that nobody saw it coming”….
CAM, i am pasadena born and bred. I cry whenever i drive home from seeing mom on orange grove. I never thought i’d rent for life.