A Time Of Trial In Florida
The Sun Sentinel reports from Florida. “Twenty-six of the county’s 31 municipalities lost population and three of them - Hollywood, Coral Springs and Pembroke Pines - made the Top 10 list of fastest-shrinking large cities from 2006 to 2007, according to U.S. census estimates released today. The percentage losses - the worst of any Florida county - are an amazing turnaround from the 1990s, when Coral Springs and Pembroke Pines regularly ranked near the top of the country’s fastest-growing hot spots.”
“‘We’re seeing a lot of places in Florida that are going down as a result of the bursting of the housing bubble and the substantial slowdown in the economy and job creation,’ said Stan Smith at the University of Florida.”
“Jaime Shulman, owner of Hollywood-based 1st American Movers, said he’s busy moving Hollywood residents who lost their homes to foreclosure.”
“‘It’s very simple,’ he said. ‘People can’t afford living here. Everything is expensive and Hollywood has a lot people who are not wealthy.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “Winter Park, a once-coveted address near Orlando’s urban center, ranks near the top of the big-loser list. It’s second only to Altamonte Springs, which took the biggest hit in population from July 1, 2006, to July 1, 2007. Cities that were once housing hot spots saw population losses in the year ending July 1, 2007. Altamonte Springs lost 553 residents, and Winter Park shrank by by 340.”
“The price of housing was the major factor driving the 2007 numbers, said Sean Snaith, director of the Institute for Economic Competitiveness at the University of Central Florida.”
“‘While the region is growing as a whole, places that used to have a desirable ZIP code are losing residents,’ he said. ‘Housing prices are squeezing them out.’”
The Bradenton Herald. “Manatee County’s population boom is over. The county’s population grew anemically from 2006 to 2007, with modest gains in unincorporated Manatee and Palmetto offset by continuing losses in other cities.”
“Demographers and local officials blamed the slowdown on several factors stemming from the housing slump, from would-be retirees unable to sell their Northern homes to fewer construction jobs available locally.”
“‘You’re more likely to lose (people) when things are tough,’ said Scott Cody, a University of Florida demographer. ‘I would not be surprised if growth slows down even more this year.’”
“Growth could last only as long as the housing industry remained healthy, a Manatee County commissioner said. Now, fewer new homes means fewer new people, Commissioner Joe McClash said.”
“‘Much of that (earlier) growth was artificial because it was an artificial (housing) market that couldn’t sustain itself,’ he said.”
“Anna Maria, Holmes Beach and the Manatee portion of Longboat Key lost a total of 58 residents during the year. It was the third straight year each city’s population has fallen. Anna Maria Mayor Fran Barford said she couldn’t immediately explain why her city’s population is shrinking but suspected the economy is a culprit.”
“‘I’m sure it’s all of those economic factors,’ she said. ‘We all are living in a time of trial.’”
From USA Today. “Shelby Morrow is a typical 16-year-old. She likes hanging out with her friends, dreams of getting her own car and enjoys writing short stories in the bedroom of her wood-frame house in Palm Harbor, Fla.”
“But in the past few months, she’s been grappling with a financial reality that most teens don’t face. The home she shares with her mother, Melody, and younger sister, Lindsey, is falling into foreclosure.”
“Melody Morrow never thought foreclosure would strike her middle-class family. But as her employer struggled financially, Morrow, a divorced mother of three, says she had to absorb repeated pay cuts. Eventually, she couldn’t pay her homeowners insurance. Then she put her home up for sale. She hasn’t found a buyer, and now it’s entering foreclosure.”
“‘I’m trying so hard right now not to cry,’ says Morrow. ‘My daughters are going through a lot. They’re feeling the stress of everything. They ask questions out of frustration, like, ‘Mom, why did you get us into this situation?’ I just say, ‘God, what lesson do you want me to learn from this?’”
The Herald Tribune. “The number of foreclosures filed in Southwest Florida rose again last month. All told, foreclosure filings in the three-county area hit 2,240 in June, a 3.7 percent increase from the 2,161 the previous month and up 164 percent from the 848 filed in June 2007, data provided by RealtyTrac shows.”
“Toni Trafford, who moved to North Port two years ago from Pennsylvania, said she has been trying to refinance her adjustable-rate mortgage for more than a year, but cannot reach her lender on the phone.
Trafford paid $210,000 for her house, contributing $40,000 of her own money and getting a $170,000 loan from Option One Mortgage. Trafford had to pay a relatively high rate because she and her husband did not have jobs at the time, but she was assured that she would be able to refinance once she found work.”
“Trafford has a job now. But Option One, which was sold to American Home Mortgage in June, was not willing to make her a new loan. When she finally got through, Trafford was told that Option One was not doing any more refinancings.”
“‘I was trying to work with these people, but I can never get anyone on the phone,’ Trafford said. ‘Now I’m behind on my loan.’”
“Ken Stevens borrowed $484,000 against his Sarasota home during the recent housing boom and used the money to open a second men’s clothing and tailor shop in Tampa. When the downturn hit, his income dropped by 80 percent and Stevens was unable to make loan payments.”
“Stevens’ house on Osprey Avenue is now on the market for $299,000 and he is hoping to work out a short sale with his bank that will let him out of his mortgage without blemishing his credit.”
“‘If I can find someone willing to pay at or close to my price, the bank may forgive the balance,’ Stevens said. ‘It’s embarrassing to have a house up for short sale, but a lot of people are in this situation.’”
From Wink News. “Real Estate agents in Lee County say home sales in the area have been going up over the past 6 months. Experts say the sudden surge in sales is fueled by home prices dropping.”
“‘It may not be what sellers want to hear. We’ve gotten starry-eyed with all these prices, which are market couldn’t bear for a long term,’ said Suzanne Sherer, President-Elect of the Realtor Association of Greater Fort Myers.”
“Last month, the average price of a Lee County home was $158,000. In June 2007, it was more than $239,000.”
“‘If you go back to the normal appreciation of our market, we’re right back in line with where we should have been all along,’ Sherer said.”
“Though homeowners may owe more than what they’re selling it for, it boils down to simple supply and demand. Real Estate Agent Brett Ellis says it’s a necessary evil for everyone to eventually come out on top.’
“‘I think the market has to come down in price so we can even out and I think that’s what’s happening. That’s what’s healthy for the market and ultimately that’s what’s going to heal this market,’ Ellis said.”
The Miami Herald. “Although it was the first open house she had hosted at the West Kendall home, real estate agent Ana Escoto sensed her chances of snaring a buyer were more than a little slim.”
“The price was still too high, Escoto said of the three-bedroom house — especially in a neighborhood that has lost appeal. ‘People aren’t looking here — the gas, the traffic,’ Escoto said.”
“Only three homes sold in West Kendall in May, according to the MLS. May numbers showed the median priced existing home in Miami-Dade and Broward counties dropped roughly 20 percent compared to a year ago. In Weston, prices fell 30 percent.”
“Rapidly sinking property values in those areas offer a silver lining: Hundreds of homes are being recycled to buyers who were sidelined by soaring prices during the boom.”
“In Broward, about 651 houses and condos listed for less than $199,000 exchanged hands in May, more than in any other price range.”
“In Miami-Dade, sales are registering in well-established areas such as Coral Gables and Pinecrest, according to Butler, though price declines have been steep. In Coral Gables, for instance, the median in May was down 35 percent to $655,000.”
“Investors will have less to do with stabilizing the market region-wide than they did in fueling South Florida’s boom, according to Jack Winston, a real estate analyst.”
“‘Investors are looking for isolated bargains, and there is not enough of that going on to really influence the dynamics,’ Winston said. ‘The dynamic of the market now is for primary housing, for people who have jobs who can qualify for mortgages.’”
“Several Key Biscayne-based hedge funds hit by the subprime mortgage bond crisis last year have been wiped out, leaving investors with nothing.”
“Funds run by flamboyant trader John Devaney that were worth more than half a billion dollars last year have been wiped out.”
“‘Most of the investors were institutions. Some are friends and family who were not solicited to invest,’ Devaney said in an interview Wednesday. ‘There were a few high-net-worth individuals who had losses. I was the second biggest investor in the fund.’”
“Devaney, 38, a prominent bon vivant, put his personal losses at more than $100 million. Before his funds began to sour, he owned multiple homes, yachts, a $35 million Gulfstream jet and a collection of Impressionist art.”
“Troubles first surfaced last July when Devaney took the extraordinary step of halting withdrawals, citing a rush to the exits by investors amid subprime mortgage woes. At that time, Devaney told investors he wanted to avoid selling off the investments at fire-sale prices in hopes they would rebound as the bond market normalized. But the bond market hasn’t come back.”
“After freezing the funds last July, Devaney began selling off personal assets, including a 142-foot yacht called the Positive Carry, and the jet. He also put up for sale a 16-bedroom Aspen, Colo., vacation property and listed for sale a number of waterfront residential properties on the key.”
“‘We put a lot of properties on the market — my father-in-law’s, my mother-in-law’s, my sister-in-law’s, my mother’s,’ Devaney said. ‘My home is not for sale.’”
‘The dynamic of the market now is for primary housing, for people who have jobs who can qualify for mortgages.’
I know things are tough in Florida right now, but this quote above is about the best we can hope for. In the long run, Florida should become affordable again and the economy can get back on course. Even the realtors see that now. Even that fool Snaith.
Here’s another HBB insight come true:
‘In Tampa — a city known for its adult entertainment businesses — attendance has dropped at usually thriving strip clubs. Joe Redner, the owner of the well-known Mons Venus club, says his business is down 25 percent.’
‘But Redner says the economy is having another effect on the business — it’s bringing out more women willing to give pole dancing a try.’
That’s encouraging, because amateur night at the strip clubs was always my favorite - those girls put more heart into their work.
After hours is when they’ll put the rest of their anatomy to work.
I would definitely tip extra for any amateur who wore readily identifiable NAR paraphenalia! Tie clip, lapel pin, etc…
Out of schadenfreude, of course. But you know they need the money.
So does the increased supply and decreased demand mean we’ll see price declines there as well - and thus the strippers will start wearing change belts instead of garters?
Sorry for the OT…Southern California congresswoman “Waters” just made this statement to BB & Paulson..”I understand that B of A purchased the loans of countrywide at a discount…I also understand that B of A are going to sell those homes for more that they paid for the mortgage and I want to know why the PROFIT cannot go back to the homeowner”..I almost threw my coffee cup at the telivision..Sorry again Ben for the OT..
One reason our country is so screwed up is because we have serious morons in Washington. We also have morons that vote for these people.
We are seriously out of touch as nation! No wonder it does not surprise me when we cannot come up with solutions to this mess.
The main problem is the US is the moronic vote, by far the largest bloc of voters, bridging all party boundaries. Free speech & a free press at one time were thought to be the necessary antidotes for moronic voting.
Not when people are watching American Idol and other shows.
When I talk to people about the problems we face, they act like a deer in the headlights and go on about high gas prices and how Congress has to do something about it. They just don’t get it.
There is a natural floor of one dollar to the stripper’s tip market.
Coins don’t work well as tips. Coins are harder to stick to your forehead, and can roll/slide into crevices that you would rather not know about.
Not that I would know anything about going to “Scrip Clubs”
(as Pacman Jones might say…..)
Nothing wrong with being “rebellion” once in a while!
I always thought that there were a few “clones” on this site………:)
I cant wait for the stripper bubble to burst, You know it has when a 2 dollar off a 3-piece KFC coupon will get you a dance.
‘But Redner says the economy is having another effect on the business — it’s bringing out more women willing to give pole dancing a try.’
Mons Venus is the name of this place. A sign of desperate times in the Tampa Bay area is when woman have to stoop to these low life jobs to make a buck and survive.
The downturn in the Tampa Bay area is clearly showing and many employers are moving out of Florida due to the high costs. The firm I work for opted to build a new place in Atlanta. The higher paying jobs are leaving the Tampa Bay area and most are going to Atlanta where the cost of living is much lower than Tampa.
However, I just recently completed a new round of research on pricing of property in the Tampa market for secondary homes and they are still a ways away from reaching the affordability range as many home owners are trapped in their overvalued homes.
Foreclosures are now outpacing sales in the Tampa Bay area and will increase over time.
It is not a good time to buy in 2008 in the Tampa area!
Is the cost of living in Atlanta really lower than that of Tampa? I’ve spent some time in Atlanta for work, and while it’s much cheaper than DC, the impression I got from the locals was that housing costs there had skyrocketed just like everywhere else.
Atlanta was also where I had a waiter back in 2005 tell me how he had moved from Arizona because “Atlanta was the next big thing” and he was flipping houses on the side.
Atlanta is cheap compared to most cities of its size but still overpriced. Intown is expensive and in areas such as Buckhead, Morningside, Virginia Highlands and Druid Hills (the nicest intown SFH neighborhoods) bungalows start at around 450k, but for 750k you can get something really nice. In the suburbs the traffic is bad but you can get a decent middle class home in the $300ks with something really nice for about $500k relatively close in. In the exurbs you can still find decent properties for 200k or maybe less. The intown condo market exploded like in Miami. You can find nice high rise condos in Midtown or Buckhead for close to $200 per square foot, especially if you are looking at foreclosures, with two bedrooms having 2 reserved parking garage spaces. This is unheard of in many cities of its size.
Is the cost of living in Atlanta really lower than that of Tampa?
Yes, it is much lower, but was also impacted by the housing boom and prices are dropping even more.
Totally untrue..just took a couple of friends I know out house hunting..new home..good schools..4 bedroom 2/5 bathroom, swim tennis community (very common here)..price $188K……
Nice thing about ATL was that it never experienced the “price” boom due to the fact that their was too much competition with builders..the problem for ATL now is that the luxury home market is dying outside of the city area and for those builders who built in areas in the boonies for reasonable priced homes..forgetaboutit.. the high cost of gas is keeping buyers looking for homes closer to work, shopping centers and activities..
Totally untrue.
Ann you sound like a realtor and need to do more research! I just completed a research of the area and there are many nice houses for less than the Tampa market. In fact the land to build our new building is much less than the Tampa market, better tax incentatives, etc.
When we decided to move from Sarasota in 2005, the Atlanta area was one possible destination, due to the remarkably low home prices even then.
But then we found this place, and we’ve never looked back.
Mr/Ms. Bear:
I once owned SFR in Walden Lake near Plant City. They in freefall, too? (I was on east side of development), not the more tony area where I once saw Pete Rose play polo.
Insight appreciated.
Thanks.
I once owned SFR in Walden Lake near Plant City.
It’s Mr. Bear Milkcrate. Plant City is in Hillsborough County which now has more foreclosures than sales. Hillsborough County (Tampa area) is in deep trouble as a result of the popping of the housing bubble and the population is starting to decline. The Walden lake area and Plant City also had a significant run up in prices which are now in a free fall. The problem in this area is there are just no stable jobs to support the high prices and the commute to the Tampa business districts is long. I expect this area to be hit hard in terms of falling prices due to the high cost of gas and oil.
Milkcrate, you made a wise choice to leave! By the way, years ago, I almost bought Pete Rose’s Mercedes 560 SL, the two door coup. It was silver in color.
Fuzzmeister…
Thanks for the kind and thoughtful reply. I used to love riding a mountain bike through undeveloped Walden lake area, even checking gopher turtles along their predictable routes through the palmettos. I miss parts of the area, not the racism to be sure. And you are right. Jobs there are scarce. Big source of revenue always was farmers selling for housing. Guess that has screeched to a halt. And with all the OJ plants (Brazilians own storied Minute Maid plant nearby) struggling, freeze or otherwise, that commute down I-4 becomes a bear with gas prices. It is a Death Road anyway.
Ten years ago, Tampa had its share of riots. The whole area could be much more than it is. Financial calamity may make tempers flare again.
Mons Venus is the name of this place. A sign of desperate times in the Tampa Bay area is when woman have to stoop to these low life jobs to make a buck and survive.
I always find it interesting those who work in such places are “low life”, but the people that visit are not.
Better BUILD some more poles…they’re liable to get crowded with the rush
You mean nobody was taking their stimulus checks to the titty bar?
Wasn’t long ago that this blog noted that those stimulus checks are helping business at certain websites. As in, the “I know it when I see it” sites.
“ok, honey.. just fill out this application..”
“hmm.. previous employment.. 3 years Realtor”
“do I like people?.. heh..trick question.. i should check.. Yes”
“would i object to strangers pulling on my underwear.. No”
“will you sleep with the boss? .. sure..why not.. Yes”
At least they can put their boob job to work and pay off their credit card debt.
If it ain’t real boobs, I’m not interested.
“‘Investors are looking for isolated bargains, and there is not enough of that going on to really influence the dynamics,’ Winston said. ‘The dynamic of the market now is for primary housing, for people who have jobs who can qualify for mortgages.’”
That is a scary thought. When you need to rely on local incomes to support housing rather than an influx of wealthy snowbirds in FL, FL is far from the bottom. FL has the one of the lowest average salaries of any state. In many areas ppl are lucky to find a 30k a year job. That supports a 100k average housing price (and even that is a stretch). The sad part is that most high paying jobs in FL were real estate oriented, cut that away, and the avg fl salary is very, very low.
Sorry Ben; wrote this before your comment appeared.
“After freezing the funds last July, Devaney began selling off personal assets ”
Sounds like a winning combo to me…Just imagine your life savings invested? with this guy. He’s the captain of the Titanic running around telling everyone things are fine while climbing in a lifeboat.
Also,….Just caught the last sentence on CNBC Erin Burnett where she said commercial paper churn has cut in half in the last 2 weeks?
Not totally certain of the details but both talking heads said “Not good” in unison..
I don’t get why folks wouldn’t catch on that if they’re investing in a hedge fund with a guy running around like Donald Trump, that he’s probably STEALING from you. Great scene in the film The Grifters where Annette Bening sets up this oil guy to give up his millions in cash because he’s taken in by the fancy oak paneled office. The ol’ razzle dazzle.
Huh. I only remember the part where she banged the landlord for the rent she owed.
There’s a scene where Annette reminisces with John Cusack regarding her days working with partner J.T Walsh, scamming wealthy folk by luring them with huge profits on cash investments. The coup de grace is when they stage a shooting, as if the Feds are raiding their offices. Annette smashes a packet of fake blood against her white blouse.
Well, how about the part where Devaney is selling off his entire families homes but NOT HIS home.
Can you believe this narcissist?
Florida is toast - specifically being toasted at 1,926 degrees.
Good analysis. Property prices have made this an uneconomic retirement and corporate relocation destination, and I’ve given my opinion before that the national and global energy situation is bringing the era of snowbirding and mass tourism to an end. I was trying to think of ways for us to revamp our state’s economy for the future, and I think a renewed emphasis on agriculture and our ports would be a good place to start. Granted, those things aren’t going to support a lifestyle of yachts and mansions and bling, but they will keep those of us who stay here alive.
Look at those Lee County prices — down over 33% in the last year alone. And the woman in North Port with the ARM essentially has kissed her $40,000 down payment goodbye. She will never see that money again.
Sort of feel bad for the woman who put 40k down, at least she was doing something correctly, although not having a job in the beginning doesn’t pass the smell test.
But those scumbag loan places not answering their phones?
Snake: agriculture and ports - I’m thinking make sure the railway system supports agriculture but then maybe barge traffic over canals would be better - depends on location. At least you’re not thinking casinos.
“Jaime Shulman, owner of Hollywood-based 1st American Movers, said he’s busy moving Hollywood residents who lost their homes to foreclosure.”
“‘It’s very simple,’ he said. ‘People can’t afford living here. Everything is expensive and Hollywood has a lot people who are not wealthy.’”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB_W5nxBM20
“…but cannot reach her lender on the phone.”
Last week Hanky said they’ve helped 1.7 M houseborrowers. But what is their definition of “helped”? I’m starting to think anyone who actually reaches a human voice gets themselves counted as having been “helped”.
Here’s a link to the census tables for the report referenced in story one (links to excel and csv files)
http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/SUB-EST2007.html
Want to find all the perps to this mess?
Anybody that owns a Gulfstream jet is a prime suspect…
“Devaney, 38, a prominent bon vivant, put his personal losses at more than $100 million. Before his funds began to sour, he owned multiple homes, yachts, a $35 million Gulfstream jet and a collection of Impressionist art.”
aladinsane,
his 210′ yacht was christened “Carry Trade”. I understand that too has been repo’d. Great work John.
probably buyers lined up all over the place for that one. Bet the bank was overjoyed with taking possesion of a POS like that.
this fire sale of his VISIBLE assets is just a pre-emptive strike & smokescreen to keep the torch mob/creditors appeased while he shows he is trying so gosh darn hard to help the liquidity situation.
fer instance; you think the Kardashian clan got all that money legally? of course not …. prime example of skimming off the top of the heap of dear departed mobbed-up lawyer daddy’s cash stash. and all those “customers” coming into the DASH store just shows how financially savy they are. riggghhhhttt !!
or maybe …. its a hoochie habitat tax front ? I dunno, form yer own opinion. and by the way, Bruce Jenner makes me cringe! he used to be an inspiration but instead of acting like the olympic legend he WAS he insists on carrying on like some dopey dumbass frat boy !!
back to the point, do you see OJ driving a Hyundai? of course not! these corrupt scumbags usually manage to sock away some hidden cash. just like the “poor” hedge fund manager. and the “poor” wife of ken lay. ad nauseum. ad infinitum.
no sympathy here for these people, who will have to make-do with only a “couple million” instead of a gazillion dollars. oh, the horror!
OT as well, but Bruce Jenner is creepy looking and is just a patsy for this clan of ego driven plumped up womenfolk.
ICKY STUFF. See what only a few minutes of watching this stuff will do to ya. Had to shower off the sleeze.
The Animal channel made me feel better.
“You are more likely to lose (people) when things are tough”
?
But those “(people)” have to go ’somewhere’? Assuming your community’s Cost of Living is in line with incomes, there shouldn’t be any need of a mass migration?
Sunshine State “regulars” here have predicted this for some time. A little late in coming but no less impactful. And that will do WHAT… for home prices?
Yes, and we were attacked by trolls for suggesting 1,000 people a day were not moving to Florida.
Ben,
In RealtorWorld (TM) things only need be true (once) to be “true” for eternity.
All it takes is a single precedent to lend license to whatever it is you need licensed. Why here, I have the article right in my briefcase. There, see for yourself!
good point, dinOR
“bend the truth to suit your needs” = real estate agent rule #2.
the #1 rule? it’s a GREAT time to buy !!!
How ’bout the term “past performance is not indicative of future results”?
the first six months of this year in south florida has been very interesting. the reality is setting in on some levels, especially in miami dade and broward. expect more people to move out. crime is a major problem and the education system is a joke. that take out all families that want to live in a decent home. the next reality is surviving the hurricane season. a bad storm in this state this year will drive more people out. when the govt is laying off people, we are toasty for real. i live in pbc (boca) and people are shocked that businesses are closing. they still cant get over the lost of values of their homes. boca will never get to reality until it is too late. i know people here that has been trying to sell since 2005. the amount of new inventory is too great. if pbc started to build in the seminole pratt a few years back, it would be a blood bath. alot of people kept moving north and away from south florida and now it is out of florida or bust. everytime i go to charlotte, i see nothing but florida and new york license plates. i already invested in charlotte along the light rail line. (i get money) making that move. we have other 2 years minimum to maybe see the bottom. but thanks to the elephants destroying the economy and high cost of living, the bottom should last 5 to 10 years. these newbees in south florida dont know much about the history of housing in south florida since the 1920’s. it is time to WORK HARD FOR THE MONEY. prices in south florida has a long way to go to the bottom.
I love the smell of doom and gloom in the morning……….it smells like “VICTORY”!!
There aren’t enough people who can leave this State to suit me, but this sounds like a good start.
Englewood, Nokomis, Micanopy, Hallandale, Bartow, Wimauma, Ruskin, Ft. Lonesome and all the other backwater areas of Florida should have stayed that way. Perhaps they will recover to more pristine times.
..
I would hate to live in Fishhawk Ranch or Bloomingdale.
Especially Fishhawk Ranch, south of Brandon. Eight years ago, there was nothing down there. Plus, its in the middle of a natural floodplain.
As for Bartow, they are ham-fisting forward with plans to build “Old Florida Plantation” or some such facade of a development….Bartow is becoming a tourist mecca, you know. And the foreigners are coming too !!!!
Funny you should mention it….Fishhawk ranch.
I know an unmarried couple who “bought” out there a couple of years back. I think they “Lost” the house this year and now, while he is still driving around in his Hummer, I understand the repo man is not far behind.
this Couple formerly occupied a trailer in one of the most run-down parts of east Hillsborough county because that’s all they could afford.
Then, they moved into a brand-new house. Amazing.
And a new car to replace the ragged old
Ford Crown Vic or LTD or whatever it was.
Soon, back to living in an old trailer, but not before trashing the house they are vacating.
There must be millions of tales similar over the past few years, but the media says they are “victims”. I disagree. Living like Kings on a Pauper’s pay. Can’t go on. It just can’t.
From what I hear there is a lot of car breakins in Fishhawk and one guy broke into a car and took a big fat #2 in the back seat.
I would too. A friend of mine has a coworker that lives there and this was on their community message board today.
“Jennifer Sc*** Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:12 AM
Subject: Vandalism
I am speechless…with all of the recent car break ins we are extremely aware that there is a problem. My husband went to get into his car this morning to find that someone had broken into his car and of all things had taken a CRAP in the back of his car. This is just the most DISRESPECTFUL, DISGUSTING thing I have ever seen. If you are shaking your head in absolute amazement that someone would do this…so are we. To think that as we are sleeping just a few feet away with our small children in the house that someone was doing this in our car is just horrifying. Anyway be aware…we live in the garden district. “
Memories of the backwater: faith healers living in trailers in Wimauma, antiquing in Micanopy, helping take a census in Ruskin (where mater workers were skittish of white-skinned folks), Ft. Lonsesome draglines digging phosphate when it wasn’t such the hot commodity fertilizer is now; Bartow, the jukebox at Davis Bros. and the most drunken redneck crowd ever assembled. (Fun spot, tho, if you were drinking.)
Housing overran most of those places, as you know.
Not sure that was an improvement.
Always enjoyed the Myakka (sp?) area, and hope the sprawl didn’t creep up to the park’s entrance.
Thanks for bringing back the backwater memories.
I was a dragline oiler in the 70s at Haynsworth mine which is right next to Ft. Lonesome. That used to be some beautiful back woods country back then.
crime is a major problem and the education system is a joke
These have always been major issues in Florida; but now they’re coming to a boil.
I spend 1 week/month in Central Florida. For years, I’ve seen that, outside a few well patrolled tourist regions, there’s terrible crime and poverty there.h
Now it’s getting even worse. A few more well publicized home invasion murders, etc, and nobody will move to Florida any more. They are going to start losing population faster than they are now.
I had wanted to build a retirement/second-home there because I spend so much time. Financing and the economy weren’t big issues for me because I planned to spend cash, and we already have 20 acres there. And now it’s cheap to build! The builders that were quoting 300 sq/ft a few years ago are now half that.
What stalled the project is security. We wanted to put a home that wasn’t visible from the street in the middle of our heavily-treed lot, with a wall around it. (The land we have is physically adjacent to Walt Disney World. The south end of it borders WDW. In fact, the power lines to the Magic Kingdom run through the back acre.)
I spoke to someone else who did a similar project…a house in the middle of a large piece of land outside any development. About a year ago, he cut down all the trees and and now the house is visible from the street. The reason: he was a target for burglary, twice while he was home!
Florida is going to be ground zero for the type of class war that a democratic regime is going to foster. I’d have to have barbed wire and a full time guard to feel safe there. So we’ve put this project on hold. It will probably be about 10 years before we’d revisit the issue because we need to see what will become of Central Florida.
(We didn’t pay very much for that land. We bought it–cash–for less than it sold for 20 years prior, because it had legal problems. We were able to sort out the legal issues, like it not being legally split, and zoned as “greenspace”, etc, while we were under contract as a contingency of sale. When we got it rezoned and split, the sellers pretended not to speak English and tried to back out of the sale claiming they didn’t understand what we were doing….A few more legal maneuvers, and we closed.)
Gosh, you make central Florida sound like Jurrasic Park, but instead of worrying about prehistoric raptors, you’ve got the huddled masses.
Modern raptors wear body armor & carry AK47’s.
I often wonder how many security guards are employed by the Mouse?
Nature is reclaiming it’s swampland, and it’s called Florida. What’s the impact of US Sugar selling it’s vast land holdings to the State?
A lot of Jamaican cane cutters might apply for jobs as park rangers.
More seriously, it could lead to dismantling of sugar program under farm bill, which holds sugar prices artificialy high in these United States.
Which conceivably would have a ripple effect on corn sweeteners.
A lot of real estate agents will be applying for jobs as cane cutters vacated by the Jamaicans.
I can’t for the life of me figure that one out. I can’t understand why U.S. Sugar would sell. It’s certainly not altruism about the environment, and I think in the future we’ll be returning to natural sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup and various factory-made artificial sweeteners. If I ran the company I would be as upbeat as one could be today about economic matters.
Perhaps someone is expecting Cuba to soon become this country’s regular trading partner, and supposing that it always will be cheaper to grow sugarcane there, refine it into sugar there, and export the finished product here.
down with high-fructose corn syrup!
Maybe they had long range plants to sell the land for RE development and saw the handwritting on the wall. The cost to stabilize/drain the land would have been too prohibitive, especially with the Florida ecomony falling apart.
i wouldn’t bet against artificial sweeteners .. diabetics buy the stuff by the case.
Increasingly diabetic educators & dietitians are advising against the use of artificial sweeteners.
yeah.. well.. i wouldn’t bet against diabetics not-doing what their doctors tell them to do either.
“Perhaps someone is expecting Cuba to soon become this country’s regular trading partner…”
Ding, ding, ding! Folks, we have a winner.
What’s the impact of US Sugar selling it’s vast land holdings to the State?
Govts don’t know how to run a business, how to determine and adjust to supply/demand fluctuations among other things.
So, assuming they try to run US sugar, sugar and it’s byproducts will be priced below market, and Floridians will either drown in sugar or be unable to get any, with nothing in between..
No, the gov’t isn’t going to continue sugar cane production, but rather, restore the Everglades.
The plan is for US Sugar to continue to farm for at least 6 more years. And the plan is also dependant upon the the Fanjul family playing nice and swapping land with the state so that water sheet flow can be restored.
US sugar probably would have had to close down because it was becoming unprofitable to farm cane here.
The Fanjuls are big time Bush rangers and powerful cuban family from the old cuba.
You’ d best believe that the devil is in the details and old Charlie is selling the state down the pike in his quest for VPdom.
“Melody Morrow never thought foreclosure would strike her middle-class family.
‘Mom, why did you get us into this situation?’ I just say, ‘God, what lesson do you want me to learn from this?’”
That the weak perish and the strong survive!
Lesson on buying a house:
Keep you fully amortized payments under 25% of your income.
Keep a minimum of 6 months earnings in a low-yeild savings account.
Stay out of debt.
If you need to “re-finance” as the basis of your purchase, you CAN”T afford the house at the price you agreed to pay. Find a cheaper house or DON’T BUY.
This is really pretty simple.
OH! and most importantly, don’t ever take the “advice” of a REALTOR ™. They are financial incompetants, as has been demonstrated here countless times.
25% of gross or take home income? That makes a big diff!
If she’s looking to the Almighty, I think the answer from the Scriptures would be “count the cost”.
Her children sound like brats.
What is it with parents anyway that have to peddle to their children? Feed, protect, house, school and love em, but for gosh sakes, they need to grow up strong, not spoiled and weak.
“In Broward, about 651 houses and condos listed for less than $199,000 exchanged hands in May, more than in any other price range.”
Lower-priced houses are selling fastest (though the prices will fall even further). Further proof that the problem is not how the home is marketed, not in the amenities, not in qualified buyers. The exclusive issue now and in the foreseeable future will be price.
I was researching sales in a converted apartment/condo project. Many of the foreclosed units were purchased by a group calling themselves, “leveraged buyers”.
Good call.
Trafford paid $210,000 for her house, contributing $40,000 of her own money and getting a $170,000 loan from Option One Mortgage. Trafford had to pay a relatively high rate because she and her husband did not have jobs at the time, but she was assured that she would be able to refinance once she found work.”
Now, a show of hands!
How many of you here would finance a home when you had NO INCOME?
Sheesh! They had the cash for 20% down. If they had just gotten jobs, they could have had a fixed mortgage.
They could have rented for years with $40k. So many “WTF?” moments there.
You guys are forgetting the REASONS for buying:
“If you don’t buy now you’ll be priced out forever”.
“You are throwing away your money on rent”
“Housing prices will continue to appreciate 20-30% per year and you will miss out on all those gains”.
“Housing prices always go up.”
“The boom will not bust.” - D. Lereah
“Real estate is your best investment.”
“There has never been a better time to buy.”
Or, put your favorite Realtwhore phrase in here:________________________________.
I actually feel a little sorry for these people. They seem responsible (they saved 40K) and they were brainwashed by friends/relatives/Realtors(TM) into thinking they needed to buy.
Or, put your favorite Realtywhore phase
in here:________________________.
“How about a lapdance in the VIP lounge Sailor ?”:)
Well to be fair, during this mania at least they weren’t giving mortgages to people that weren’t even alive. Ya gotta draw the line somewhere I guess.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen some stories Ben put up about dead people getting mortgages (fraud).
I must have missed those. I remember seeing a few where some homeless guy was found dead, and it turned out he had a bunch of mortgages in his name. It would be incredible to see banks giving 500K loans to actual dead people though. Links anyone?
“It would be incredible to see banks giving loans to actual dead people though.”
Are you suggesting they had any sort of standards whatsoever?
Why not loan to dead people? Dead people have just as much chance of repaying a loan as some of the other folks the banks floated loans to.
I just say, ‘God, what lesson do you want me to learn from this?’” -Thou shalt not covet thy Granite countertops
Or how about the one about not laying up your treasures on earth?
Don’t bite off more than you can chew.
And these weren’t even worthy of being called treasures in the first place!
Delightful addition, given the board seems to have a bias against, well, let’s say traditional religions that use as a cross as a symbol.
IMHO, of course.
“Such as time would moulder and thieves break in and steal”
I think this is quoted as such in “The Psalms” or “On Walden Pond”….can’t remember which…
FTA:
“This housing crisis is taking away the innocence of our kids,” says Phillip Lovell, vice president of education policy for First Focus, a Washington, D.C.-based bipartisan advocacy group focused on families and children.
I dunno, I’m thinking maybe children’s loss of innocence is more to do with A&F selling thong underwear to six year olds, or pre-teens wearing shirts proclaiming: I’M YO’ SILKY MAMA…or kids dry-humping at junior high dances because that’s how what they do on music video…
Housing Bubble as corrupter of America’s youth?
not so much.
That particular dance style is called “freaking,” or so I’ve been told. Ironically, I’ve been in Buenos Aires and watched very elegant tango, which allegedly originally became popular in port bordellos and was the “freaking” of that time.
Two 14-year olds getting it on.
Youth is wasted upon the young.
If innocence means thinking that the family house is an ATM machine, let’s have a lot more innocence lost.
“Growth could last only as long as the housing industry remained healthy, a Manatee County commissioner said. Now, fewer new homes means fewer new people, Commissioner Joe McClash said.”
Not true! The housing industry was a Ponzi scheme and growth remained until you ran out of patsy’s.
Now that Florida’s economy is no longer based on building houses for people who are going to move there and sell houses, what will the Sunshine State do?
Grow pot and put out fires.
I thought that was California!
pole-dance
grow Oranges?
More money in growing pot.
That, Slim, is the $64,000 question. Stupidly, our state and local governments still are banking on 1,000-person-per-day population growth and thus are wasting energy planning for what is not going to happen. Just last week I saw that a particular stretch of toll road expressway is “expected to have a greatly increased traffic volume by 2020,” thus justifying the addition of additional lanes. And don’t even get me started on the plan to expand the airport. Florida without retirees, tourism, and the propagation of sprawl will be like Michigan and Ohio without manufacturing and Iowa without corn.
I think the Keys likely will revert to the era when one of the major industries was trafficking in square grouper.
That would be interesting, but with the weak dollar, Key West has been filled with foreign tourists
although people are saying there will be way less people here for the lobster mini season, which is usually people from mainland Florida
Good, more for me!!!
Preach it, Snake Charmer.
We’re going through the same thing here in Arizona. Much of the statewide and municipal planning is still based on this flood of retired people that’s supposed to show up here.
Periodically, I like to raise these questions in public meetings:
1. What if the Baby Boomers don’t retire en masse the way their parents and grandparents did? A lot of them can’t afford to stay out of the workforce for very long.
2. What if the Boomers who do retire decide to stay in the same area where they’ve been living for years? A lot of them are quite attached to their children and grandchildren. Especially the grandchildren. Thus, they’d be less likely to pick up and move to a place that’s thousands of miles away from the family.
3. If they do move here, all is well and good when they look like the ads for the “Active Senior Living” communities. But what happens when they become disabled or infirm? Arizona’s not known for being very generous in such cases.
4. Arizonans have long been known for their hostility to snowbirds. For people coming here from other parts of the country, especially the friendly and polite Midwest, this can be unsettling. How can the Arizonans be retrained to be more mannerly toward the older visitors and newcomers?
It should concentrate on what it does best, and what other tropical locations do - tourism, and only tourism.
However that being said - who here knew that Florida is about the 12th biggest cattle-producing state - ahead of many western states?
Also fishing of course.
moi, because I’m a FL native. Remember driving the turnpike through Central FL and seeing big old longhorns. Gorgeous.
I hate what has happened to the state.
Plus, there will be lot of room for more cow-calf ops after O’bama wins, relations with Castro regime warm, and much of Fla. fruit and veggie production move to island. Sugar will move-no brainer. A Selena-like Anita Bryant will sing about Havana sunshine trees. En Espanol, si.
“Devaney, 38, a prominent bon vivant, put his personal losses at more than $100 million. Before his funds began to sour, he owned multiple homes, yachts, a $35 million Gulfstream jet and a collection of Impressionist art.”
“‘We put a lot of properties on the market — my father-in-law’s, my mother-in-law’s, my sister-in-law’s, my mother’s,’ Devaney said. ‘My home is not for sale.’”
My guess is this cat got a degree in economics from UCF (probably under the guidance of Sean Snaith) where he met and married a hot, little rich chick from S. Florida. Upon graduation, he talked the in-laws into dropping a few million into his new hedge fund. He, like anyone without scruples, made a ton of doe scamming sub-primates (just coined that, feel free to use), and the in-laws had some of their friends join in for fun.
By the time the housing thing broke, he had a pyramid scheme going, stealing money from the fund to pay for his goodies before it all came crashing down on him. Now the in-laws and his own mother are broke, but he’s keeping his house cause he knows he’ll need something to leverage into his next scam.
Welcome to Florida.
There’s only one way out of this: tax cuts. And lots of them. And mostly for rich folks, cause they pay a lot of taxes.
They’ve got to make a lot of money, because they spend a lot of money.
Jon,
Sadly that’s true, and on Wall Street it’s a far better thing to be thought a crafty thief than an ordinary fool. Don’t you worry though, we’ll be keeping an eye on this guy. I hate to say it’s different this time but EVERYBODY got shafted by the housing “boom”. Who will he be able to go to to raise capital?
“sub-primates” Lol.
“…feel free to use…”
Thanks, will do.
County commissioner said. Now, fewer new homes means fewer new people, Commissioner Joe McClash said.”
This political leader needs to be voted out of office as he has not got a clue.
Perhaps we could gift wrap a clue and give it to him for Christmas.
Good idea. This year, methinks everyone will be getting homemade gifts like apple pies or penciled family-ish “gift certificates” for backrubs or babysitting. A prettily wrapped clue would be right in line.
Is this clue thing anything like a round tuit?
Usually when I ask why something isn’t done I’m told “I haven’t got a round tuit”. My kids were apparantly in desperate need of this round tuit thingy because that was always the excuse they gave me as they were growing up.
I couldn’t even read this whole article. I got sick when I read about the happy little teen who’s now worried about her house going into foreclosure. AAAAAAAAArgh! Why is the media portraying all these financially greedy, irresponsible nutbags as victims? As if they played no role in their own fate? Yes, this sad teen has a greedy mom - was their even a dad in the picture? Guess what? Houses aren’t free! Nor is everyone entitled to one. That’s what this whole housing debacle is turning into now. Entitlement! Screw the numbers or having to read the contract - I’m entitled to a house!
Sad teen has greedy mom, Sad teen is greedy herself and doesn’t see others needs. Sad teen is spoiled.Just like mom. But when someone tells their parents ” why did you get us into this..”
I would have gotten told not to speak back to parent. But our MSM and TV has allowed these children to think they are in control.
Good luck for the future, ’sad teens’. Always getting bailed out.
The realtor that I was butting heads with at City Data recently sold his house for a profit and came back to rub it in my face. I told him I’d run out of words for him and challenegd him to a backyard boxing match. He promptly split.
So, I’m thinking of putting together a backyard boxing tourney in Key West, Hemingway-style… gentleman’s honor. We can even host it behind Blue Heaven if the owner will let us. What do you think?
RENTERS Vs. REALTORS
“What do you think?”
I think relax, pour a cold one, allow the market to fight your battle for you.
But you insist on fisticuffs, what is the prize you get to enjoy if you win?
“what is the prize you get to enjoy if you win?”
Win or lose, I’d get to punch a realtor about the face.
Realtors are a mean bunch…watch your goodies.
MASH?
Florida’s a dangerous place. Snakes, gators and Realtywhores…and WATCH that darned Mouse!
He’s a thief too and he has a Gang
Extreme anectodal story here, since I’m currently IN Florida (Ft. Lauderdale).
I’ve noticed an ever-growing European retirement population on our block, which tends to have a very small number of condos for sale. Lots of houses about 1/2 mile away for sale (or REO), but the condos are selling fairly quickly (or going off the market in less than 50 days).
I know the RE agent adage is “the Europeans will buy!” and I’ve never believed it, but for some strange reason I’m noticing more Europeans. It might be like when you hear a new word for the first time and then notice it regularly on TV or in the paper, but when I hit the local German pub, it was packed with Germans and Austrians and Poles. Very odd, actually.
Anyone noticing an uptick of Europeans who are “living” in FLA?
When I was in Germany in 2002 there was a TV channel devoted entirely to infomercials on Florida - tourism and real estate (mostly the west coast). So it doesn’t surprise me.
Oh, I know that SOME Europeans have been buying in the States based solely on the weak dollar + easy credit in the Eurozone, but the difference over 2 years is significant. I’m a people watcher in most crowds (restaurants, bars, etc) so I take notice often of the nationality and race of people as it changes.
It’s probably just random chance that I noticed so many Euros here in FLA, but two restaurants and two bars being packed with “them” (heh) was just interesting to notice.
Not that there are enough knife-catching Europeans to save Florida, but just wanted to puke my opinion.
It makes sense if you look at the historical perspective - Florida used to be a cheap destination for retirement. A guy with a UAW pension (including health coverage) plus social security and perhaps some savings (and maybe selling off the paid-for home) could buy into Florida relatively cheaply into the 1990’s.
That equation has soured in America - but for a Euro retiree, perhaps with a pension, and savings in a stonger currency …. the equation holds again - Florida is relatively cheap - even with taxes and insurance.
The American retiree didn’t come to Florida because he thought his final home purchase would increase in value. If it did, and his heirs did well - that’s great. The same holds true for the Euro retiree - even if it’s not a great investment - current and future affordability is what Dieter and Hildagard are looking for.
Florida is to Europeans, what Costa Rica is to Americans. Cheap digs, hanging out with the quaint & colorful natives.
“It’s also possible that demographers overestimated the number of new people during those boom years, Cody said. That’s largely because building permits and housing starts are among the factors used in making population estimates, but not all of those new houses end up with people living in them, he said.”
Were these growth projections of people made based more on building permits and housing starts rather than trends of actual people moving to an area, employment, etc.? If so, any place with excessive speculative housing development could be prone to grossly overstated population growth estimates. We saw the story last week with the ludicrous 50 percent growth estimate for Las Vegas in the next 10 years, another market with excessive speculative development of non-primary residences.
Arizona planners were recently caught with egg on their faces. Reason: Growth estimates from the housing boom years were way too high.
Population numbers should come from one thing - actual drivers license applications.
…. wait, I forgot many blue-hairs don’t have drivers licenses.
Never mind.
Well, I’ve seen several articles in the local paper about how some immigrants are heading back home to Central/South America cause they can’t find jobs in this economy and the government is cracking down. Maybe some loss of population is also attributable to that in South Florida, where illegals are quite common.
My lawn guy and his crew up and stopped showing twice monthly after 3 years of regular maintenance. I called. No reply. I called several more times, no reply.
I’m thinking something immigration related might have occurred.
I hired a new guy. I made sure this one was here legally.
I remember when Miami was a “sleepier” town. I liked it. Less traffic. Simpler lifestyle. I wouldn’t mind some simplication in general and less population (less traffic!). I do hope they continue to court the tech peops. We had three tech companies move into west Broward and hubby got a job with one.
Paid better than old job, too.
M.
If you ever want to suck in the big boys, you have to act as if you are one…
_______________________________________________________________
“Several Key Biscayne-based hedge funds hit by the subprime mortgage bond crisis last year have been wiped out, leaving investors with nothing.”
“Funds run by flamboyant trader John Devaney that were worth more than half a billion dollars last year have been wiped out.”
“‘Most of the investors were institutions. Some are friends and family who were not solicited to invest,’ Devaney said in an interview Wednesday. ‘There were a few high-net-worth individuals who had losses. I was the second biggest investor in the fund.’”
A Time Of Trial In Florida:
… These are the times that try subprime men’s homes.
Renting men need not worry.