The Housing Bubble

Didn’t, but will. Thanks for the recommendation.

England may have a class system, but at least the upper classes feel a sense of obligation to the less fortunate and don’t sneer at them like our Wall Street overlords do.

Oh, THAT’S what it is…..they knew you were getting an early start.

Somebody’s watching you, J……

Every time I go to Israel, I’m impressed by how mature and responsible the young people seem (well, except they all drive like maniacs!)

I think it’s because all of them–men, women–have to serve for 3 years after graduating college.

I’d love to see these kids of “generation iPod” being forced to serve their country for a few years.

(I meant to say “graduating high school”)

I’ve never served my country, because a person who loves freedom knows that freedom comes from serving yourself.

My country hasn’t served me in my 34 years. My country has taken my freedoms. My country has stolen from me. My country has boxed me in, slowed me down, cut off my hands and told me what I can put in my body or do in my home.

Serve my country? With a subpoena, maybe. Or a warrant for its arrest. No thanks.

Testify. The US was a beacon for liberty and human rights. That is being dismantled rather quickly, with the financial fraud, aggresive invasions of foriegn countries, spying at your homes, practising torture, etc. This most resent war on homeowners, proves the point, we are expecting the same gubmint that allowed this mess, to formulate a battle plan to win the war foreclosures.

To the Dadas : Go live in Iraq then. I don’t disagree that an erosion of original American ideals and principles of law is occurring that needs to be reversed, but the practice of active violations of human rights is nowhere near proportional to the sensational outcry you make. Instead of being chicken little, work in a reasoned controlled manner to restore what you believe is being decimated.

Maybe South America would be better for them. You would see your rights dwindle to zero. It seems no matter how much liberty or freedom we have, nobody is happy with it. Everyone has a different view point of liberty and freedom, which at one time meant the same thing. I want the freedom to own a handgun, you want to take that freedom away. You see how this works yet? You want the freedom to burn the American flag, I want to take that away. Are we getting somewhere?

I did my time in military immediately after graduating from High School. I can tell you the old sterotype that the military instills discipline and respect has been defunct for years in all the services, with the possible exception of the Marines. The one truly worthwhile experience is the comraderie you can develop [in the actual combat units, not the ash-and-trash support units that are disporportionately filled with the lowest sort of otherwise-unemployable scum].

In today’s military, young people will see a “leadership” comprised almost solely of self-serving careerists and ticket-punchers, most of whom couldn’t lead ants to a picnic. The true “leaders of men” and warriors get disillusioned and tend to leave after just a few years. The NCO corps is dominated by “lifers” who would probably be pizza deliverymen on the outside, few of whom inspire any confidence or respect from the troops. Far too many of the young people who join see the military as a job corps with rifles, and have little real attachment to it. The feminization of the military has been an unmitigated disaster in terms of unit cohestion and military discipline and effectiveness.

The Marines alone still retain a residual sense of discipline, standards, and espirit de corps, and have far fewer charlatans in leadership positions than their sister services. The Special Operations Forces are also a great place for tough, dedicated, intelligent warriors capable of initiative and independent thought. Otherwise, political correctness and social engineering schemes have turned our once-formidable military into a friend for the friendless, a home for the homeless, and a garden for the vegetables that make it a career.

Draft? My dad, who served in the Pacific in World War II was against the draft when I was a teen in the 1970s, and continued to oppose the draft. See, he was blind as the result of WWII.

I remember when I was a kid I participated in a “cowboys and indians” toy gun battle at my friend’s house. I think a lot of people volunteer to join the military (my father did) because they had no relatives come back disabled. When my dad came back disabled, his views changed. War is hell. He talked very little about it. In fact I asked him once if he ever killed anyone in the war. His response was “never ask me that question again.” That was it and he never answered my question.

Sometimes I come across people on boards like this who have served and they insult me without knowing about my father and his views. Disability is not fun, especially when it happens when you are in your 20s, like it happened to my father!

My father was no economic liberal though, and a Reagan Republican. My father passed away in 2000. I had no better friend.

traffic in the greater ny area is till pretty damn bad
but i do so alot more 2 and 3 passengers in cars

but you still see the 21 year old driving a suburban
by himself with apparently no real destination

went to Jfk airport last night and it took me 30 mins to exit the British Airways terminal and get onto the van wyck exprwy (any non-nyers who watch Seinfeld can remember Elaine trying to beat the Van wyck-not many do)

Heheh, I think these folks would LOVE to be wasting gas (so many around here do with 75mph speeds and humungous 4x’s on narrow roads). I think it’s more a function of low income. BillyBob only earns about 20k a year - divide that among his truck payment, boat payment, ATV payment, hunting club dues, sporting licenses, credit cards, insurance, gas for all, etc - It’s getting pretty tight for him (yes, many live on the family patch for free though)…

I was reading about the Van Wyck this past weekend. A book called “Naked Airport” - gets into the development of Idlewild/J.F.K.

The scary part was they knew the roadways weren’t up to task on the day they opened it. The airport initially had palatial gardens too - they lasted about year before becoming a parking lot.

I’ve been riding my bike to work more, thank God I never was interested in living out of town. Anyway it’s not like I’m saving a lot of money, but it’s nice to just leave the thing in the garage and have to fill it every 2 weeks instead of every one week.

Lotta amateur cyclists out there now though. There ought to be a license test for riding in traffic because most these turkeys don’t know how.

This many not be a revalation, but I have been seeing more motorists stranded on the side of the road. Out of gas. Pouring the liquid into their trucks/SUVs with EPA-approved plastic tanks designed for… lawnmowers.

Is there an EPA-approved gas can for automobiles?? I don’t know if I’ve seen one lately.

NSO,

Depends on what part of CA you want to live in before winter hits.

We welcome you, just bring your own water because we are in the midst of an epic drought.

$10/gal may be high, but as long as it is available I believe it will be consumed but not necessarily by Americans. It’s a great big world out there with lots of money for consumption. Let’s talk further if/when we get to price increases caused by shortage of supply. That’s when the fireworks really begin.

I’d be in my boss’s office begging to work from home or at the very least go to a 4 day work week

For years we worked 4/10 week. Was able to spend more time with the family .I think the country should mandate it a automatic 20% reduction in gas use.

The US economy will be totally trashed before gas gets to $10.00/gallon.

At 10 bucks a gallon, it will make a lot more sense for people to quit work and stay home, if they are only making minimum wage or a little better. Which will be just as well, because businesses will be laying off people right and left anyway.

The gas-saving measures pushed by some on this blog won’t work for me, or a lot of other people…….I’m “on call” 24/7/365, public transportation doesn’t work for me, even if we had it around here. A motorcycle might work (if I had a death wish) but a bike won’t……..ever tried pedaling a bike any distance against a 30mph wind in 100 degree weather? About all I can do is rent a place closer to work (which I did in March).

There are some cheerleaders for an economic Chernobyl on this blog, the rationale being “when it is over, we will pick up the pieces, and be better for it” This only works if the PTB are smart enough to learn the lessons, and do what needs to be done, instead of covering the ass of their buddies/campaign contributors.

I personally think that a total economic collapse of this country will lead to a mountain of unintended consequences, worldwide.

Someone who survived the Depression (I can’t remember where I read it) said, “I don’t feel like I am a better person for surviving the Depression. All the Depression did was teach people basic survival instincts at an early age”.

Socrates11: $10 a gallon? I’d like to think I make a decent wage, but if it gets to $6 a gallon then I’m taking the bus. There is no way I could make my commute (25-30 miles one way) on $10 a gallon.

Where I’m located, the cost of driving (leaving out the cost of owning a car, if you live in the burbs and need one just to get groceries) 25-30 miles in a Ford Taurus - assuming non-toll roads - is 1/2 the cost of taking the bus. If gasoline prices go up, bus fares will go up in tandem.

Likely not - increased ridership should cut cost per passenger.

Is that in Nuevo Dollars?

Good Come Back…:)

Lord, I hope so.

I love a good anti-Satan protest.

And then I can dig out all my old Slayer records for “balance.”

Will there be prayer vigils against the demon distillate when it reaches $6.66

Forget prayer vigils, before long, these so called “Christian’s”, will be practicing the Sacrifice Virgins Before the Altar of the Pump to get their fair share of gas rations

If you think about it…

Oil really is “Manna from Hades”

Christians are already praying at a pump. News at 6.

Here it is in full. I don’t get the nutcases comment but whatever . . .

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/Freddie-fannie-fnm-fre-government-wamu/index/a/17972

‘I don’t get the nutcases comment but whatever’

I’ll tell you. I had to ban one of their writers from posting here because of the deranged attacks on openly female posters. Mostly against you, BTW. But always on women.

Was it Jeff Macke? : )

Don’t ban me, dude……

Don’t tase me bro

GSE or GSE shareholders? There is a big difference.

I think we have already witnessed a little taste of what is going to happen to shareholders, who cares about them?

If the GSE’s are publically backstopped in any manner, the gig is up for the dollar. What happens to the shares is irrelevant with regard to dollar issues. They may go back up for all I know.
The PTB is going to try and thread the needle with how they present any backstopping. I personally don’t think they will be successful in keeping that dollar neutral. Just my opinion.

Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae are both part of the S&P 500, so those who have interest in an S&P500 index fund are also shareholders. Glad I got out last year.

“Loose lips sink ships.”

I believe it is called a “trial balloon.”

I wonder who is watching fog roll in over the hills?

Tom my man,

So far no fog. Just cooler temperatures. Yeah!!! I’m just not a hot weather friend.

Tom,

What part of the country do you live?

I’m in FL. One of the ground zero’s for this whole mess. I swear I wasn’t involved.

Hit me up on AIM if you want… If you have AIM…

MrHousingBubble is the SN.

Or even 40%+

Darn near 50%, I was giving a little room for the specialists to decide the pre-market was crazy =).

‘As soon as they mentioned they were thinking about the plan the run started. FNM and FRE will open down 30+% this morning.’

“Paging Kevin Bacon.”

I worked for a firm once, and we did physical foreign exchange trading, and had a Black-American trader, who knew a little more than nothing, but how we basked in the spirits of all inclusiveness…

Until they had to fire him for gross incompetence.

Uhhh, how is the race card relevant here?

Don’t forget that plenty of white Americans who are grossly incompetent get jobs all the time. It’s called nepotism. Ask Dubya.

Obama was a Friend Of James Johnson, who got special deals from Country Wide. Among the others who got special CW mortgage deals were Franklin Raines!

He, apparently, was a Clinton person:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121279970984353933.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

(Subscription may be required. I can’t tell if others can see this link or not…)

“Uhhh, how is the race card relevant here?”

I knew he was incompetent from day one. He told me “that 1% of a 100 was a Dollar, and it didn’t mater how many hundreds it was, if it was 400, it was still one Dollar”

Imagine a black Dan Quayle trying to talk financial matters?

He somehow lasted another 6 months, and had he have been a white guy, he would have been shown the door, but having a black foreign-exchange trader is as sexy as having a black chief of police, in our world not so much based upon merit, as looks.

“had he have been a white guy, he would have been shown the door…”

Maybe. But with all due respect, your generalizations suck.

I’ve met plenty of whites who got ahead in life because of nepotism who should have never gotten in the door to begin with.

I work for a huge company full of incompetent people (of all colors) who somehow still have jobs.

Aladinsane is just trying to find an acceptable rationale for his racism.

“and had a Black-American trader”

Whoaaaa….
You just blew your (ample) credibility with me. That was soooo an unnecessary comment.

Maybe he was someone’s brother-in-law.

RE: Black American trader remarks

I agree = credibility totally shot on that one. Whic is a shame. Incompetence is color blind, sir.

We’ve been all trained to look for anything that vaguely smells of racism, and if there is the faintest odor of it, we must condemn first and ask the real questions later (probably never), as per what we’ve become, as a society.

“We’ve been all trained to look for anything that vaguely smells of racism, and if there is the faintest odor of it, we must condemn first and ask the real questions later (probably never), as per what we’ve become, as a society.”

I call this type of response as the power of mind over matter. I first applied thgis description to my wife (now ex-wife).
For some people:
When the mind is made up, facts no longer matter.

i agree with you 100% on that one. next time you tell a story about a white person make sure you refer to him/her as a white-american and lets see how many people jump on you.

Don’t forget that plenty of white Americans who are grossly incompetent get jobs all the time. It’s called nepotism. Ask Dubya.

I have to say, I liked Dave Chappell’s “President Black Bush” character better than the dimwitted original. [Warning: Chappell uses the N-word a lot.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqXnsSJ_53w

Thanks, Sammy. My sons talk about that bit all the time but I never got to see it.

Do you mean we’ll all be renting from the government instead of the Chinese?

Well, technically it will just be a sort of sub-lease as the Chinese will own the gov.

LOL

we’ll all be renting from the government We’ve always been renting from the government, what’s new about that?

Yes the stock can go to zero, but most of the loans they hold are prime, 20% down, fixed rate deals. They may lose some value, but will hold up as well as 99.99% of the portfolio’s out there. You have to separate out people not wanting to own the stock with the rest of the issue(s).

it destabilizes our democracy

Yes, but you do realize that back in the day when marginal rates were that high, there were a huge number of (legal) tax loopholes and nobody really paid that amount. This was pre-AMT.

So it’s not quite honest to say that the marginal rates used to be higher. There were in theory, but not in practice.

What destabilizes our democracy is the fact that the MAJORITY of Americans pay little or now taxes. The bottom 50% of taxpayers only contribute 3%.

Reuven, the reason the bottom 50% only contribute 3% in taxes is due to the fact that as of 2001, the bottom 80% in this country owned only 16% of all privately held wealth. The top 1% owned 40%. Lord only knows how much wider that gap has gotten in the last 7 years.

The inequality in wealth distribution in this supposed democracy is flat out immoral.

haha, keep arguing about taxes, it is quite amusing. The greenback devalued by 40% over the last 5 years. how’s that for f’ing tax?

I don’t disagree! That’s why the minority of my savings is in US Equities!

There’s another tax, too: artificially low interest rates. Another way to force savers to subsidize houseflippers

yeah, lets start a couple of more wars and give a couple of trillion more in tax breaks, bail out a few more banks, lets just put the dollar out of its misery.

I told my wife last night that through the lens of the rear-view mirror, this week may look much like Black Monday week in 1987, though without the highly-reported one-day 20 pct drop in the DJIA. It sure feels like that week!

DJIA = Maginot Line

Just MHO - we may have an upcoming support level, but I think it will be temporary, like on the order of a few months perhaps. Long term (over the next 2-3 years) I think we still have quite a ways to go down. The fundamentals of the economy are eroding before our eyes - the one thing propping it up - housing - is now gone. Being that prices are still too high by about 60% nationwide, I don’t think housing will propping up the economy again anytime soon. We have to work down to the true economic fundamental base before we see *real* long-term support. IMO we haven’t really been on that base since about the mid 80’s; or perhaps we were close to it in the mid 90’s.

From a market numbers perspective I think the true base that we’re working towards, though may actually overshoot, is about 800 on the S&P and about 6,000 on the Dow. This is based loosely on the mid-80’s levels, plus a reasonable amount of growth. Certainly (if we get down to those levels) there will be bargains to be had before then, but overall the markets won’t be a good place to be until then on the long side.

Perhaps some other bubble will come along and artificially prop us up again and prove me wrong though. Commodities isn’t going to be it. Except maybe popcorn.

Housing was only fueling the growth in the economy, not the economy as a whole. And yes, many will be looking for the next bubble to return us to high growth rates, but what is really necessary is for the US to learn how to exist with moderate (1-2%) growth. Americans are, largely, a greedy, ravenous sect; it’s going to be painful for most of us to adapt to the simple life.

IMHO the time to be selling was 6 months ago, and the time to be buying is still a few months off.

But then again, I don’t trade regularly. So I look at things much differently.

I am interviewing three financial advisors.
I hope to be ready when the bottom is in.
I’m like, take my $ please!
My new state sponsored computer is on it’s way.
Thanks U.S.

I can’t imagine a northeasterner working out on either ticket.

I think your instincts are right for both camps.

A good VP pick always adds the potential to pick up voters, covers deficiencies at the top of the ticket (real or perceived) — and sometimes provides an attack dog for the campaign.

Ask Ron Paul what he thinks about 9/11. After the first incoherent sentence, the rest is unimportant. The guy may be a great doctor, but he’s still a loon. Maybe he has a UFO landing dock in his back yard. Someone should check.

Incredulous, why are you spreading crap and name-calling? The primaries are over. Find a new gig.

I was reponding to Mr. Vincent’s facetious comment, quoted below:

“I saw Ran Paul on TV for the first time yesterday answering question about the fed etc. He is right on the mark about things. I tell ya, that guy should run for president.”

I can crack on Ron Paul, if he can keep popping up on television babbling 9/11 nonsense. You’d think someone who thought he could be president would at least spend an hour on intelligent research, rather than arriving at a conclusion based on a fake documentary (”Loose Change”), reciting conspiracy talking points. Pandering to an 18-21 year-old audience not known for its wisdom is kind of laughable, considering the guy is what, two, three million years old?

You are right, we should have learned what made them good NAZI folks tick. Wait a minute they were ticks!!

Deep down, Mao really was a nice guy too. It’s a shame we didn’t understand his true feelings. Obviously it’s our fault.

Didn’t we negotiate with some feller named Mao, once upon a time back in the days of ping pong diplomacy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_Pong_Diplomacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nixon_Mao_1972-02-29.png

Blano is only pawn in game of life…

The US supported Mao during WWII when we were both fighting the Japanese.

Did the same with Ho Chi Minh.

I just wonder some times how much history might have changed if, instead of taking the Black or white/Cold War view of things, the PTB at the time had spent some time studying what motivated Mao and (especially) Ho Chi Minh.

Yes, think of all of those poor San Franciscans who would be homeless if they couldn’t get 700K mortgages. Oh, the humanity!

The 1-2% of people who can afford those houses don’t need mortgages.

Wait a minute, 25% of new houses are meant to be sold at or above that price level?

Looks like discount time.

“Suddenly there is a problem.”

Isn’t this the way it always is? Few financial problems happen suddenly, it’s only their “discovery” that suddenly happens and causes the chaos.

“You roll back the stones, and you find slithering things.”

John Kenneth Galbraith

Ha, I have a long time friend like this. He quits his job and lives on savings for a while. One day he is like OMG, I have a 3 day notice on my rent and have no money to pay, like it suddenly happened to him?

It’s not suddenly there is a problem
It’s suddenly there is a problem that’s too big to sweep under the rug.

I’ve been saying for years, as far back as 2003, that these 2 enties were in trouble. They’ve been cooking the books for years. I say let them fail. What’s all this bull about they’re “Too big to fail”. Nonsense. The bigger you are the harder you fall.

The guys running these entities are CROOKS and should be put in jail.

I hear a reggae song in there somewhere.

If F&F stop making loans it would be nearly impossible to get mortgage loans that one should not be getting anyway. Suddenly, the only thing that would matter would be borrowers ability to repay the loan. And that’s a good thing!

An express bus to rock bottom.

Talk about jingle mail.

“A billion dollars isn’t what it used to be.” (circa 1982)

Nelson Bunker Hunt

How soon until a trillion dollars is the qualifying hurdle to get on the Forbes richest Americans list?

“Zimbabwe Trillionaire”

I don’t think that’s true…the Fannie/Freddy debt is backed by assets (houses)…sure the house values may not be worth enough to cover the entire debt, but the liability minus value is hardly equal to the national debt. Maybe at most 1/4? Still a big number, bit there is a bit too much hype going around, even for a bear like me.

I agree Arroyo…I say look east for the underlying problem ala “Israel”….I think they aare going to do it…They won’t get the support from Obama…The window is closing and they are going to pull the trigger IMO…Either that OR Iran is going to blink…Which one is it ??

Sometimes I wonder if Iran’s leaders have a death wish. They’re trying to get a nuke and now they show they have a delivery system to hit Israel. They have to be aware that Israel likely has a good sized nuclear arsenal and can put a serious hurt on them.

There are other data sources besides wiki on google. I like the French President quote though:

On 1 February 2007, President Chirac of France commented on the nuclear ambitions of Iran, hinting on possible nuclear countermeasures from Israel:

“Where will it drop it, this bomb? On Israel? It would not have gone 200 metres into the atmosphere before Tehran would be razed”.[31]

In arguing that the United States should directly talk to Iran rather than through intermediaries, former President Jimmy Carter stated in May 2008 that Israel has “150 or more” nuclear weapons in its arsenal.[32]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

That depends on whether the Saudis/SWF or the Chinese/UST are holding the paper. Whichever, We the Taxpayers are going to pick up the tab…cleverly, perhaps, with devalued USDs.

(Enjoy the horsies, Ouro.)

I say that this fannie scare is a cover to pass an emergency housing bill next week. Watch for the porkiest bill in history with lots of goodies for insiders.

They HAVE to sure up Fannie/Freddie. There is already an implied government guarantee as a GSE. If the mortgage market ceases to exist, which will basically happen if there is no F/F, then the housing market, construction, manufacturing and just about everything else is done.
Its really quite simple: The F/F stock may be worth little (though that is debatable), but their assets are worth close to $5T by any reasonable valuation method. It is NOT a $5T bailout that is necessary unless all of their loans are bad. If this is true, then Aladinsane might be right and we will need gold bars and should flee the US.

What if ~20% of F&F’s debt/guarantees were bad? 1 trillion?

Assuming the govt covered these losses (is that why the govt should bail them out???), where will the **future** mortgage money come from? Will bond investors continue to buy these mortgages after it’s been made clear that F&F were insolvent…even IF the govt were to back these new bonds? Would the govt have any credibility? Would they print? Would we see massive inflation if they took over the GSEs? Would we see higher interest rates to entice investors to buy F&F bonds, both because of greater inflationary concerns and because of F&F’s fragile states?

Exactly!!! That’s why there will be NO run on the bank. Americans have NO MONEY, JUST DEBT.

CASH IS KING!!! 10% CD’s are on there way, just wait. They’re coming. Good things come to those that wait. Your Patience will payoff. So, glad I didn’t get into equites. We’ve had nothing but sucker’s rallies since October. American is BROKE and BROKEN. I’m waiting for DOW 10,000 or less. It’s coming, you’ll see. !!!!!!

“CASH IS KING!!! 10% CD’s are on there way, just wait.”

I remember being a dumb college student circa 1980, when an even dumber student suggested that I walk with him down to the neighborhood bank to purchase CDs yielding 10 pct. I was too dumb to take him up on the idea (but I would go for it in a heartbeat today!).

I remember a “Bosom Buddies” episode (sorry, Tom Hanks), circa 1980, that revolved around the two guys saving enough money to go out and buy a T-bill.

The irony is that a 10% rate offer by a bank might be a sign that you should look elsewhere to put your cash, like maybe the stock market.

The desperate need for cash should be accompanied by a high price for this cash, and this high price will be reflected in high interest rates.

But this desperate need for cash may also be reflected by declining stock prices as mutual funds are forced to dump their stock holdings to raise cash to meet withdrawl demands for their cash-strapped fundholders.

If this is the case then stocks is where one should put their money. High interest rates and low stock prices are both temporary conditions; It’s better lock in a low stock price than a high interest rate, IMO.

And, following that line of thinking, maybe government will finally stop spending money they don’t have, when they realize that the fixed targets (homeowners, US based businesses) are turnips that you can’t get blood from, and the portable money will move overseas to greener pastures, if they get too crazy trying to raise taxes. Which will cause the government to curb their spending, which will eventually lead to a greater prosperity for everyone!!!!!!

(pause)

“Naaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!”

Signed, Theodoric of York

“Growth for the sake of growth is a cancerous madness.”

Edward Abbey

Excellent quote, however in my Abbey reference of quoations it is:

“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.”

Since WWII a big chunk of the US population has moved themselves to places where the scenario you just described can’t possibly work without an auto. My family lived exactly as you described — in the 1950’s.

No need to worry about fuel cost when you live where you work… and you may wind up owing your soul to the company store.

A younger consultant than me here in Maryland in a small community is getting by without a car (so far). He can walk to the office if he wants. On weekends he takes a cab 3 miles to the Amtrak station and goes to New York to visit his brother. On weekdays he stays in a hotel. Probably spends $2300 per month but earns $8000 to $10000 per month. No dependents, no pets, etc. I found out he does not have a car, but used to have one.

Not too difficult to give up a car. You do not “have” to become a parent in your 20s or even 30s. You don’t have to get married. You don’t have to have a big screen TV. You don’t “have” to have a car. I got by without one until I was 26 (in 1985). One of my sisters lived in San Francisco for several years without a car. Rode her bicycle around the city. Funny how I was never worried about her biking as much as Im’ worried about her driving nowadays! I dated an older woman once who just moved from Manhattan to Tucson (where I lived). She was in her 40s and did not know how to drive. Never had to. Admirable!

Who cares how much gas America is using?

Chindia is picking up our slack and then some.

Fungible items like Oil & Gold always find their way to those that can pay…

Plus, those running the Highway Trust Fund are projecting a $3 billion shortfall this year due to decreased tax revenues resulting from declining gasoline sales.

Tax revenue on all fronts are going to be way down…Its also going to be delayed reality…Think we have deficits now, wait until 09 & 10…Hold onto your wallets everybody..The Greedy hand is comming…

Chindia is picking up the slack if you look in the review mirror.

China is getting hit hard with inflation
Next up decreased exports as US and world consumers spend more on food and fuel.

Then you will see consumption in these places slow.

China subsidizes the price of oil, I think a gallon of gas is around $2.50.

What do they care if they get rid of Yankee Dollars and buy overpriced oil to sell on the cheap?

If I wanted to defeat the USA w/o firing a shot, i’d bleed us at the pumps.

those running the Highway Trust Fund are projecting a $3 billion shortfall this year due to decreased tax revenues resulting from declining gasoline sales Look on the bright side. Wear & tear on the highways will go down as the miles driven go down, so less repairs will be necessary.

In my travels, although I see fewer flyers on airlines and I’m driving less myself, the demand for oil will continue to grow outside the U.S. substantially. Whatever the U.S. consumer does to cut back won’t really matter. Tens of milions of more cars will be on the roads in Asia in the next two years.

The oil age is over with.

Quite funny. I shall borrow.

“A fear-based existence,”

BINGO… Be afraid, we’ll protect you. And when you’re not afraid anymore we’ll wheel another boogeyman for you to cower from.

And when the lying, thieving Cons have cried fire one too many times is when deceptive turds get the swirly twirl.

There’s a royal flush in someones hand.

There are new elephants on the roam to keep us paying for protection.

I specifically blame the American evangelical movement for much of what has transpired to make this country into what it has become.

No shit. The American evangelical movement (whatever that is) has so destroyed the USA that foreign nationals who are attempting to obtain residence here - legally - are on three to ten year wait lists. And no one has to be reminded of the numbers crashing our borders illegally. All that trouble to get into this hellhole of the United States.

here’s a hot tip for you:
BF works at Boeing. He told me that special Chinook helicopters are on line and being specially outfitted to airlift American citizens OUT of the country when The Great Meltdown occurs. But you can only secure your place on those special CH 47s if you’re a card carrying member of The American Evangelical Movement, and they don’t accept gold bullion as payment.

(OK, Lad, now go ahead and call me a cow like you did Txchk.)

Lessee, smears on blacks, “evangs”, “cows”, “neo-cons” (code word for da Jooos), all in one thread, even. Gettin’ into pretty rarefied air here. And this guy thinks he’s morally and intellectually superior to everyone else? No thanks, I’ll pass on that one.

I don’t know why he has such a stick up his azz about “evangs” when he’s the primo evangelist for the Religion of AU.

“I specifically blame the American evangelical movement for much of what has transpired to make this country into what it has become.”

“you can only secure your place on those special CH 47s if you’re a card carrying member of The American Evangelical Movement”

Are you guys for real? I’m no evangelical, whatever that is, but the ridiculousness of this logic is like saying the FB is to be specifically blamed for what has transpired in the housing market.

Whatever!

BF works at Boeing. He told me that special Chinook helicopters are on line and being specially outfitted to airlift American citizens OUT of the country when The Great Meltdown occurs. But you can only secure your place on those special CH 47s if you’re a card carrying member of The American Evangelical Movement, and they don’t accept gold bullion as payment.

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read in here, and that includes LV Landlord’s posts. And where are these Chinooks going to deposit said Evangelical Chosen? Mexico? And why would one need a “specially outfitted” chopper to hold the Evangelicals - does it have an open ceiling in case they get raptured en route to their secret destination?

Did your BF also inform you that 4,000 Jews got telephone calls the day before the 9/11 attacks telling them not to show up for their jobs at the World Trade Center, or that the design of the $20 bill foretold the attacks? [OK, disregard all those tributes to WTC victims with Jewish surnames, since these memorials were obvious forgeries, right?] Seriously, the gullibility of some people and the BS they’ll accept uncritically never ceases to amaze me.

I was being sarcastic.

There will be no CH47 rapture of evangelicals or anybody else, I repeat, no Chinook airlift (once the SHTF) is planned…

AFAIK

seriously, wtf happened to this blog’s TIC-o-meter, anyway? I had to explain myself downthread on this point because Lip took offense and called me a dolt.

Phillygal,

Sorry, I just jumped in and didn’t see your sarcasm. Please forgive me. You know I’ve tried sarcasm on the HBB a few times and I don’t communicate it well and I didn’t get it today.

Hey, where’s NYCityBoy been lately?

“Since Bush took office in 2001, the US national debt has ballooned by $4 trillion dollars, and 2.6 million manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas. The US banking industry is mired in its worst crisis since the Great Depression, and the US economy has lost 432,000 jobs over the past six months. Washington is spending $10 billion per month in Iraq, and the American electorate wants change.”

Mission Accomplished!

Doesn’t that say it all?

Beautiful~
__________________________________________________

About God or Gods?

Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Apollo, Artemis, Aphrodite, Ares, Hephaestus, Athena, Hermes, Hades, Demeter, Hestia, and Dionysus were all very powerful, all-knowing Gods, once upon a time in Ancient Greece.

If somebody said their names in a blasphemous fashion back then, bad things could happen.

Most of them sound like perfumes or colognes, now.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be …

It was almost sounding good until this was mentioned.

But get your terminology right. It will be called Aztlan.

Nice hard reality Hondje but don’t expect ConTards to grasp it but I do love this tidbit;

“Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition’s we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.”

Maybe when the CCA makes social justice and protecting widows and children as Jesus instructed instead of harping on everyones sex life, they too will find their divorce rate drop. Until then, they’ll be marginalize to the fringes, right where they belong.

Dear New California,

I guess that means you get to take all the Wall Street bloodsuckers, Hedge fund pukes, and the Jackholes in D.C.

We keep all the energy that is produced in the Red States, that is currently exported to the Blue states.

Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Aladinsane,
I enjoy your multi-faceted posts. Are you foreign? Your observations are beyond what is expected from a person having grown in only one country.

Considering 85% of all hydro is generated in blue states not to mention all the nuke, you’ve got a deal.

tutto incognito:

I am the son of an immigrant of various ethnicities, whose college education was traveling millions of miles around the globe doing business, and seeing the world for what it really is, not the jaundiced view of the majority of my countrymen that can’t think outside of their little box.

That is why I love the US. Some individuals are the best specimens to be found anywhere. SOME, but the rest.. oh, boy… But that is the case anywhere really. but some worse than others, because in the US, the souls are gone, it is all transactions and brain washed by the TV. communism could not do it - making people equal only made them think outside of the box to differentiate between personalities. You only had yourself to show, not things… actually great times as a kid. the best by far!
Tutto.

New Mexico was a free territory. Thank you very much.

And I’d take the Duke of the south over the Duke of the north any day of the week. Much better weather. And better lookin’ cheerleaders.

Y’all,

Sorry had to work and couldn’t keep up with everything.

hondje, in response to your reply, if you really believe in fairly tales, lets separate the country into the political factions as they truly exist and I don’t have time to find all the links right now.

So go back to the last election results and review which “counties” went for which candidate and then tell me how the blue counties have all of the resources. What you’ll find is that most of the blue counties are in the urban areas where all of the consumers reside and most of the red counties are in the areas where all of the resources lie.

Do you still think that you get all of the good parts of the country?

Still glad that I’m not a miserable lefty.

Lip

“85% of the hydro…..all the nuke”

But……..I thought we were running out of water?

And as far as nuke plants……I’m in one of the reddest of Red States, and us dumb-ass country boyz gone done and figgured out how to build a nuke plant about 60 miles down the road.

Now, if we could just figure out what to do with all those 300 pound, two-headed, glow-in-the dark, largemouth bass that are in the plant’s lake…….:)

not to mention all the nuke,

wrong.

Anyway, why don’t all you blue staters just quit voting each other’s tax dollars away? And red staters too for that matter.

Hey Gulf, where do you reside?

Li(s)p,

Heh, I dunno about fairy tales or Kool-Aide, but I think if you were to go back and take a look at the 2004 election results, you’d find a very high correlation between folks who voted GOP and folks who believe that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 and that we would be seen as heroes and liberators by the Iraqis….remind me again why you, Rush Limbaugh and Toby Keith haven’t yet volunteered for this noble cause…?

Get real! All of you! Red or Blue you both voted for the same party! When are you going to get it?

It’s a one party system with two heads. Think about it.

Hadje,

Cute and typical. Can’t deal with rational reason so you have to devolve into name calling.

Here is the map I was talking about. Make your own conclusions if you’re capable.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/2004_County_Results_Final.html

“wrong.”

No. Right. You might have a podunk plant in Frogballs, Arkansas but the northeast nuke pumps out more megawatts than any other region.

http://www.nrc.gov/

One plant in podunk AR is one more than none. That makes you wrong, chief.

I will give you 50k for the galaxy.

I’ll sell you the dark side of the Sun for $50k.

I’ll give you 20K for the moon! I’ll turn it into a giant billboard. Whee
Pepsi or Coke?

Some other cheese company in Wisconsin already has first dibs on the moon, sorry.

6+

Ewwww, Uranus?

Testify Brother, testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes what passes for “whining and complaining” is genuine protest about current conditions. Nothing wrong with that, either. Now, in this country called China, a little “whining and complaining” can earn you a ticket to that Great Factory in the Sky.

“whining and complaining” in China means that you’ve lost your job, but worry not, there’s hundreds of other eager educated people that will take your place.

We and the Chinese are on an escalator, and we’re going down and they are going up, and we are at the half-way point of the ride.

USA is the world-wide leader in number of it’s own citizens in prison, and our cowboy hat used to be white, but we switched it out for a black model, when nobody was looking.

Forget the Asia of your youth, the China of today has Unions including a WalMart union. Do the workers in the WalMarts in the US have any representation?

The only thing that one cannot protest in China (at this time) is the government. Business and business practices are under daily siege.

China 1968: Chairman Mao suits and little red books

China 2008: Italian suits and mauve passports

I should have said the majority.
And I stand by the majority will always complain and whine while the minority will see a situation and take action instead of complaining. I see it, and “hear it”, all the time. While the committe is scheduling another meeting trying to figure it out, I have already started the ball rolling to fix it.

Aladinsane solar is prime example. The majority will complain about their electric bill, Aladinsane took action.

“Aladinsane solar is prime example. The majority will complain about their electric bill, Aladinsane took action.”

What is the payback on that investment? What is the ROI?

“…..can’t protest against the government….”

Sorta like the old joke:

Guy from the USA is talking to a Russian from the old USSR….

American: “In the US, we can say that the government sucks as much as we want!”

Russian: “So what? In the USSR, we can say the US govermnet sucks as much as we want, too!!”

What is the payback on that investment? What is the ROI?

I was instantly shielded from the price of oil going up*, (electricity) and how many of you after 20 years of paying the electric company, have received a free solar energy system, on the house?

* Thanks Sun

20 years payback?! wow, that seems like a long time. what was the ROI again?

You don’t get it…

I either write a check to the electric company for $300 a month, or $250 is taken out of my bank account to pay for my loan.

It’s already tilted $50 a month, my way.

I expect the bulge to grow substantially.

I get it; the numbers just don’t work for me. I applaud your environmental concerns, just not your financial savvy.

With oil and Iran too? The manipulators have finally met their match.

yes, over the weekend is what I’m reading too

I’m just going to calculate my call bids, stick em in and watch the show.

Usually when the Gov’t steps in, it’s the shareholders who get screwed.

So this is Bear Stearns 2, is what it’s sounding like??

Good point — my wife must have at least 200 spare bottles of lotion tucked here and there around the house.

LOL

“Good point — my wife must have at least 200 spare bottles of lotion tucked here and there around the house.”

Darn you PB, just got coffee stains all over my face and shirt because of you!

Correction, with the proper exchange rate it’s $5.35.5 a gallon. So there you whiners.

In the 70s inflation, wages chased up the rising prices. Today, wages are staying flat.

Please note I managed to avoid saying, “Today, not so much.”

No disco, this go round.

Things reached a boil in the windy city in 1979…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Demolition_Night

Dahl is still on local Chicago radio. Less crazy but funnier since he stopped the boozing and drugging.

I remember him when I was in Chicago in the early 80’s.

Before him, when I still lived in west Michigan, my morning wasn’t complete without Larry Lujack, Tommy Edwards and “Animal Stories” on WLS.

Ha, ha…”Animal Stories”…what memories. Always seemed I heard them over the AM Blaupunkt in our ‘74 Beetle - 1979 gas prices were never a big deal for the family because of that car.

Things reached a boil in the windy city in 1979…

A proud, proud moment for our fair city.

Stand tall, disco hater!

Blame away dolt

Right on Philly. When the charlatan authoritarian nuts posing as “evangelicals” make social justice issues (remember that little thing called Sermon on the Mount?)an equal part of their agenda is when they’ll get the respect they want.

lol

Lip and exeter -

I said that TIC. Upthread aladin blamed the terrible state of the country on the evangs, and I was just mimicking him. How can anyone blame any one class of people for everything that’s wrong with a nation? (substitute Blacks, or Latinos, or Greek window-washers or short car mechanics, for evangs - it’s equally meaningless).

exeter, I am aware of the Sermon on the Mount.
“Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God”, etc.
I guess I should have put a /sarcasm tag at the end of my post. Dag, I just got called a name. In the spirit of the Beatitudes, I shall let it pass. *halo*

“You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religions. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.”

Aldous Huxley

I know you were j/k Philly but I couldn’t help myself. No problem. Hypocrisy is just one of my peeves.

You should buy silver, I don’t own any.

Wait…what?

wonder who Bowie stole it from?

TOTALLY missed the most plausible version…
A lad insane…..
must be a cultural thing or i am just stupid….

It could mean an end to the universe as we know… “With great power comes great responsibility…” I’m just going to have to accept that… Now! Let’s see if I can gold into LEAD!!!! (JW concentrates mumbling furiously under his breath)