July 17, 2008

An Off-The-Cliff Drop In Prices

The Longmont Times Call reports from Colorado. “Home sales in Longmont are expected to surpass last year’s numbers, and experts say that’s one sign that the local market is healthier than many other parts of the country. ‘All real estate is local,’ said Marty Quigley, current president of the Longmont Association of Realtors. ‘Longmont is not San Francisco. We’re not Arizona. We’re not Las Vegas.’”

“But Longmont has not been immune to the national trends in the housing market. Home values have been falling in Longmont, just as they have everywhere else. ‘We saw too many builders coming into the area and building too many homes,’ said Reid Williams, president-elect of the Longmont Association of Realtors, said Wednesday.”

“There have been 327 foreclosures filed within Longmont’s 80501 and 80503 ZIP codes through June, according to Boulder County Public Trustee records. That’s on pace to surpass last year’s total of 574 foreclosures filed, which was a record.”

“Chris Hirai of Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, noted that for potential homeowners, interest rates remain near historic lows and there are still options for first-time buyers to get into the market. ‘It’s not like the last four years, where if you could fog a mirror you could get a home loan, but there still are some options out there,’ Hirai said.”

The Citizen Telegram from Colorado. “A number of homes over a half million dollars are on the market right now, two in Rifle and one on Silt Mesa. They’re going for pricey figures, anywhere from $605,000 to $780,000.”

“‘It’s definitely a buyers market right now,’ Realtor Andy Stanczak said. ‘We’re stuck on last year’s prices. There’s limited buyers out there, too. Not many people are in the market for homes of this caliber.’”

“Overall, there are a lot of listing for homes in the area. ‘Last year we had, maybe, 10 new listings a day. Now we have 30. Listing service books for Pitkin and Garfield Counties have been an inch thick and now it’s two inches thick,’ Stanczak said.”

“Stanczak said while there are homes on the market, it is a lot harder to qualify for mortgages because of all the stipulations. Last year, they offered ‘no-document mortgages,’ he said. ‘That sure isn’t the case now,’ he added.”

The Arizona Republic. “Valley home prices continued their year-over-year plunge in April, dropping a record 18 percent as the impact of foreclosures and other economic factors exerted even greater influence, according to an ASU report.”

“The Arizona State University Repeat Sales Index, which tracks repeat same-home sales, reported an ‘off-the-cliff drop’ in home prices because, in large part, of foreclosures, which made up 20 percent to 30 percent of all April home sales.”

“ASU real-estate Professor Karl Guntermann said the Valley’s ‘northeast region,’ which includes north Phoenix, Paradise Valley and Scottsdale, saw its first-ever double-digit drop in home prices, down 10.2 percent from the previous April. Its year-over-year decline in March was just 4.3 percent.”

“The southwest region, which includes Avondale, Buckeye and Goodyear, had the worst year-over-year slide, as home prices plummeted 30.6 percent from a year earlier, falling even further from March’s 12-month decline of 22.9 percent.”

“Guntermann, who compiled the report, said the continued rise in foreclosures was significant, but that gas prices, interest rates, tougher lending standards and buyer psychology also took their toll.”

“‘It’s not just one thing,’ he said. ‘That’s what’s so depressing, in a way.’”

From KTAR.com in Arizona. “‘A 300,000-dollar house goes to $240,000,’ said Guntermann.”

“Guntermann said what is shocking is that the decline in home prices is spreading to Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Fountain Hills and Cave Creek, which now are seeing double-digit declines for the first time.”

“The northeast ‘has been the one part of the Valley that’s been holding up fairly well, but it’s gone south as well, now,’ Guntermann said.”

“Guntermann sees no end in sight. ‘Given how much prices went up there for two, two and a-half years, they’ve really come down a fairly small percentage of the total increase,’ he said. ‘That suggests there are more declines to come.’”

“Three luxury retirement communities with a combined 850 units are under development in northern Scottsdale. Executives at all three say they are not worried about overbuilding these communities.”

“All three communities are going after so-called ‘go-go seniors,’ who play golf, tennis, hike and exercise regularly. ‘These people are not just waiting to pass on,’ said Jason Craik, whose company is building Arté.”

“Mark Myers, a senior VP for Marcus & Millichap, said…sales of luxury retirement units in Scottsdale will depend greatly on the recovery of the single-family housing market nationally. ‘Some of the go-go seniors are having trouble because they have trapped equity in their homes,’ he said.”

The Mohave Daily News from Arizona. “The Mohave County Assessor’s Office has sent out appeal notices for 2,160 assessed properties for 2009, which property owners should get by Monday. The assessed value of all property in Mohave County was $27 billion in 2008. That has decreased to about $25 billion for the 2009 calendar year, Assessor Ron Nicholson said.”

“Stick-built homes, or Mohave County homes that are not factory built, have seen a 15 percent drop in assessed value from the 2008 assessments. Nicholson said he does not expect the housing market to improve for another three or four years.”

“The number of foreclosure sales in the county, which are considered in the valuation process, is also ‘off the chart,’ Nicholson said.”

The Reno Gazette Journal from Nevada. “A federal bankruptcy judge appointed a trustee Tuesday to oversee the case of a Reno mortgage company recently taken over by the state after allegations of forged loan documents, possible fraud and questionable financing that has filed for Chapter 11 reorganization.”

“‘Over the past few years,’ said Cetus Mortgage owner Marcilin Benvin’s lawyer, Kevin Darby, ‘the real estate market, particularly the residential real estate market in Washoe County, Nevada, has suffered a dramatic and debilitating downturn. As a result, Washoe County has seen an unprecedented rate of borrower defaults. Cetus, and the loans it brokered, were not immune from the market crash.’”

“In the motion for an examiner instead of a trustee, Darby said Cetus has a plan for taking care of its financial problems that included having another company take over loan servicing obligations.”

“Darby’s argument ‘would be more persuasive if that willingness (to take care of investors) had been provided before posting a note on the door,’ said U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregg Zive. ‘There was no wind-down. They just simply stepped off the edge of a cliff.’”

The Record Courier. “Carole Thompson, executive director of the 185-member Douglas County Building Industry Association, said sales of new homes are still down. ‘Our members, mostly custom home builders, sold about five houses in June,’ Thompson said. ‘I can’t sit here and say it’s not bad. It’s bad, but we will gradually come back.’”

“Realtor Christianne Gordon said…one must consider declined home values. ‘If you are a seller, you may still be pining for prices of 2005,’ she said. ‘If you don’t absolutely have to sell right now, and simply can’t stomach the temporary market correction we are in, don’t.’”

The Las Vegas Business Press from Nevada. “Some Las Vegas condominium owners feel abused after buying units as investments only to see demand for the thousands of high-rise residences recently opened or under construction tumble.”

“Already, the Signature at MGM Grand has generated two very similar cases from buyers who claim they bought units based on exaggerated sales pitches. Now they want refunds.”

“‘The fact that a lot of buyers purchased condo hotel units with the expectation they would throw off enough cash to make a profit, combined with what’s going on with the economy creates an awful lot of disgruntled owners,’ said Dante Alexander, president of the National Association of Condo Hotel Owners in Scottsdale, Ariz.”

“In a statement, MGM Mirage, half-owner of the Turnberry/MGM Grand Towers joint venture that developed the three Signature towers, said it was in ‘full compliance with all applicable laws.’”

“The sales contracts, the company added, contained numerous disclaimers in capital, boldface letters that disowned any income projections. Buyers were required to initial each page that contained the warnings.”

“‘Unfortunately, it seems that some real estate speculators made their own assumptions, which were not realistic,’ the company said.”

“The Signature buyers filed as a class action. The prices paid by the named plaintiffs ranged from $425,000 to $745,000. The fundamental problem, Alexander said, was the mindset that prevailed during the real estate boom.”

“‘Condo-hotels are a lifestyle decision, a very cost-effective way to have a second home,’ he said. ‘Unfortunately too many buyers viewed them as an investment. And unfortunately, a lot of developers used that to their advantage.’”

“In spite of two misdemeanor citations against the Meridian Luxury Suites for renting rooms overnight, the upscale condo-development is continuing to take overnight guests, some residents contend.”

“The present Meridian conversion to condo hotel is sparking friction between the minority of owners who permanently reside there and the majority, all out-of-towners, that bought as an investment, and don’t want their units to sit idle.”

“‘I was just talking to a guy at the pool today, and he said he is staying here and leaving today. He arrived July Fourth,’ Meridian resident-owner Kathleen Mannix said. ‘He is staying here with his guy friends. The four of them are in from Chicago to celebrate his birthday.’”

“Southern Nevada had 3,192 new foreclosures in the first quarter, or roughly 35 a day, Clark County records show. It’s an 89.4 percent increase from year. Local home sales improved during that time as a result of a 28.5 percent price cut, but a year’s worth of inventory still remains, Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors figures show.”

“And things could get worse. The number of homes undergoing foreclosure reached a new high of 6,165 in the first quarter, up 129.9 percent from 2007.”

“National builders are constantly pressured by Wall Street to trim expenses and increase profits. It has forced many firms to divest land holdings to improve balance sheets.”

“‘We have some of the biggest builders in the United States in this city. The big key is that development costs haven’t declined. They are selling lots today for less than it cost to develop them. Banks have been writing down lot values,’ said Dennis Smith, president of Home Builders Research.”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “New-home sales in Las Vegas have been consistently low over the past six months and appear to have reached the bottom of the current down cycle, a local housing analyst said Wednesday.”

“Dennis Smith of Home Builders Research counted 922 recorded escrow closings for new homes in June, bringing the total for the first half of the year to 5,747, a 45.1 percent decrease from a year ago.”

“Taking out 114 high-rise and mid-rise condos and 31 apartment conversions, sales of traditional single-family detached homes totaled 777, the sixth straight month under 1,000. The high mark of 3,233 came in June 2006.”

“The median price of all new-home product sold in June was $269,900, a decline of $54,000, or 16.7 percent, from the same month a year ago. Smith said he doesn’t see much of a drop in new-home prices.”

“‘They can’t build them for any less than they’re selling for now or they just won’t build them,’ he said.”

“About 65 percent of resale closings in June were real estate-owned, or bank-owned homes, according to the MLS. The number of homes sold by the bank has increased 18 percent over the past three months, Smith noted.”

“As more real estate-owned properties hit the market, they will drive prices down and cut into existing-home sales, said Robert Lee, CEO of Foreclosure Trackers. ‘Say you’ve got two three-bedroom, two-bath model match homes,’ he said. ‘One’s bank-owned for $300,000 and one’s a resale for $400,000. Which one’s going to sell?’”

“Lee, whose business is buying first mortgages from lenders when they go under, said a typical first mortgage might be $500,000 on a home that was appraised at $550,000, but an updated broker’s price opinion puts the value at $320,000.”

“‘You know what I’ll pay for that loan? I’ll pay $200,000,’ he said. ‘You’re selling me a defaulted mortgage. How about document deficiency? Whatever the broker’s price opinion comes in at, we’ll pay 55 cents on that, max. That’s the model.’”

“The median resale price in June was $218,000, a decline of $62,000, or 22.2 percent, from a year ago, Home Builders Research reported.”

“As the inventory of real estate-owned and short sales increased, roughly tripling in both categories since the beginning of the year, lending institutions have become markedly aggressive in pricing homes to sell, said Frank Nason, president of Las Vegas-based Residential Resources.”

“Who says real estate went bust? Mostly the media, argues the operator of a new Realtor-oriented Web site. The idea: to show that consumers and Realtors needn’t view the entire national real estate market as a downer. Nuggets of positive news exist virtually everywhere, even in Las Vegas, said the site’s founder, Leon d’Ancona.”

“‘The media latches onto sensationalism wherever possible,’ said d’Ancona, who’s also president of (a) Toronto-based real estate information firm. ‘People want to read about morbidity or whatever, but, for the sake of the real estate industry, we can look at some good things.’”

“D’Ancona’s Web site drew praise from at least one local Realtor. In an online forum, Prudential Americana Group sales broker David Boyer lauded d’Ancona’s premise that the media overlook market subtleties that paint a decent picture of the real estate market.”

“‘Leon is absolutely correct! Like politics, all real estate is local,’ wrote Boyer, whose brokerage enjoyed its own spot of happy news last week when it emerged from bankruptcy. ‘I wish the purveyors of doom and gloom understood that simple fact!’”

“Boyer’s analysis didn’t improve over the phone. You know it’ll be bad when the first sentence out of someone’s mouth is, ‘Please don’t take offense.’”

“The slow market is ‘not the media’s fault,’ Boyer said. ‘You’re just the easiest target, right ahead of Realtors. It’s the media’s fault only in that we have dumbed down the way we report and write the news.’”

“Portraying the market in broad strokes isn’t fair or honest, say d’Ancona and Boyer. It would be more accurate to home in on specific neighborhoods, districts and market segments that buck downward trends.”

“‘You don’t go into a restaurant and say, ‘All the food is good’ or ‘All the food is bad,’ d’Ancona said. ‘There’s good everywhere if you look at it. I don’t see anybody saying, ‘Hey, we know it’s bad out there, but at least there’s some good stuff out there.’”




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64 Comments »

Comment by cactus
2008-07-17 12:08:37

Leon d’Ancona.”

winner of “dumbass of the month”

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-07-17 12:59:16

Francisco D’Anconia would be so proud of his retarded little brother! :D

Frankly, I see nothing wrong with looking for bargains, but to blame the media for keeping lemmings from hurling themselves over a cliff is just plain asinine.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-07-17 12:08:53

From the original post:

“Three luxury retirement communities with a combined 850 units are under development in northern Scottsdale. Executives at all three say they are not worried about overbuilding these communities.”

“All three communities are going after so-called ‘go-go seniors,’ who play golf, tennis, hike and exercise regularly. ‘These people are not just waiting to pass on,’ said Jason Craik, whose company is building Arté.”

To which I say:

There’s a dirty little secret about Arizona and other “destination” states for retirees: They are welcome as long as they’re in the “go-go senior” years. But once they start needing long-term care (in their homes or in a nursing facility), or if they need other social services, there isn’t much here.

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-17 12:54:01

Arizona Slim,

Now that I *didn’t know? Very helpful, very crucial. Everyone be it in financial services or RE sales, recreational sales etc. has been foaming at the mouth, waiting tin cup in hand for the go-go senior’s money to drop a rain-maker on them!

( It’s really pathetic )

But once they’re more like “gone-gone” seniors nobody wants them any more b/c even if they’re in reasonable health ( certainly not spending money any more? ) So all of these ads for “the active senior lifestyle” should have a disclaimer across the bottom?

 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 12:56:34

They are welcome as long as they’re in the “go-go senior” years.

“Hey there Ms. GoGo. Time for you to be GoneGone”

 
Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2008-07-17 13:11:00

‘Some of the go-go seniors are having trouble because they have trapped equity in their homes,’

Help! I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!

 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-17 13:20:06

Hmm, I’ve never seen so many Hospitals and care centers as well as bill boards advertising for heath care professionals as when I would pass through Phoenix.

 
Comment by dannll
2008-07-17 14:33:44

Not true at all…
ACCHS pays all my Mother-in-law’s (84 years old) meds, provides ‘day care’ and all medical services for free, covers everything that Medicare doesn’t. Plus they will provide in home relief for my wife if she needs a break. There are nursing homes by the dozen in the area. I used to visit an aunt in one for years.
I’m all in favor of scaring the gogo’s off but be honest about it.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-07-17 16:40:46

If you’re not poor enough to be on ACCHS, but not well off enough to afford what Medicare doesn’t cover, then you are in a heap of hurt.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-17 12:09:04

Mirror, mirror on the the wall…

Who’s got a chance at a home loan, now that fog no longer helps at all?

“Chris Hirai of Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, noted that for potential homeowners, interest rates remain near historic lows and there are still options for first-time buyers to get into the market. ‘It’s not like the last four years, where if you could fog a mirror you could get a home loan, but there still are some options out there,’ Hirai said.”

Comment by BW
2008-07-17 12:43:30

Today, the host of a local legal-help radio show had some examples of the types of loans that were made…

1. Woman who works as a super-market check-out clerk claiming she made $400,000 a year and not getting called out on it.
2. Man on $800 per month of SS getting $800K+ in loans from CFC to buy 3 properties.
3. Woman making $12 p/h getting a million dollar loan to buy a Las Vegas condo.

Hirai really isn’t exaggerating when he says “if you could fog a mirror you could get a home loan”.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-07-17 12:49:10

He’s not lying, they’re still making stupid loans out there. Who wouldn’t when money is still practically cheap coming from the Fed discount window: Borrow short and lend long.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-07-17 12:21:31

“Guntermann, who compiled the report, said the continued rise in foreclosures was significant, but that gas prices, interest rates, tougher lending standards and buyer psychology also took their toll.”

“‘It’s not just one thing,’ he said. ‘That’s what’s so depressing, in a way.’”

Depressing? Depends on what position you’re in. I find it very uplifting to watch prices drop across the Nation.

 
Comment by DirtDog
2008-07-17 12:28:04

“Already, the Signature at MGM Grand has generated two very similar cases from buyers who claim they bought units based on exaggerated sales pitches. Now they want refunds.”

Good luck with that!

 
Comment by Kim
2008-07-17 12:32:39

“We’re stuck on last year’s prices.”

Yeah, that’s part of the problem, Andy.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-07-17 12:39:47

“A number of homes over a half million dollars are on the market right now, two in Rifle and one on Silt Mesa. They’re going for pricey figures, anywhere from $605,000 to $780,000.”

“‘It’s definitely a buyers market right now…”

No, at those prices it’s a non-market. Cut the prices by 50-60% and it’s a market. Cut them by 70-80% and then maybe we can talk about great opportunities for buyers.

 
Comment by BW
2008-07-17 12:40:05

“In spite of two misdemeanor citations against the Meridian Luxury Suites for renting rooms overnight, the upscale condo-development is continuing to take overnight guests, some residents contend.”

Theres one trend we’ll likely see more of … FBs turning “investment” properties into black-market hotels. Hmm…

Comment by Curt
2008-07-17 15:29:27

I wonder if they rent by the hour. After all, this is Vegas.

Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-17 18:51:59

According to LV sources, even the Rabbit Hutches are not getting as much business as usual.
Apparently the business is down, and that aint Up …
if you get my cialis/viag drift.

 
 
 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 12:47:50

ASU real-estate Professor Karl Guntermann Guntermann…

I understand the desire for hyphenated names, but this takes the cake.

Did Karl marry someone whose last name was Guntermann, and they couldn’t decide which one to use?

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-17 12:53:47

No, that was my mistake.

Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 12:59:04

No, that was my mistake.

I figured, but it sort of looks like a story in the Onion, “According to Ms. Smith-Smith…”

:)

Comment by goirishgohoosiers
2008-07-17 13:21:19

I knew someone in law school whose last name was Foster, and then she married a fellow student also with the last name of Foster. I don’t know whether she became Foster-Foster after the nuptials or just stayed with the one.

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Comment by NotInMontana
2008-07-17 12:51:12

Like politics, all real estate is local,’ wrote Boyer,

Is that a line they all learn at some seminar?

Comment by Leighsong
2008-07-17 15:51:55

Yeah, but financing isn’t local.

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 12:54:38

‘Some of the go-go seniors are having trouble because they have trapped equity in their homes,’

Go-Go Senior: “Help! I have equity trapped in my house, and I can’t get it out!”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-07-17 13:42:13

Not-so-funny tale from near here: A friend who was on in years, and, quite frankly, a bit flaky upstairs, took out a reverse mortgage.

The flaky part became very obvious once the reverse mortgage was approved. She went on one of the most baffling spending sprees I’ve ever seen. We’re talking about purchases of a fancy-dancy coffee grinder and a subscription to some “bean of the month” club. And she doesn’t even drink coffee.

She fell and seriously injured herself late last year. The house is now up for sale, and, dang, you should see the wishing price on that thing. I think the wishing price has some connected to what the house was reverse mortgaged for, and all I can say is, “Lotsa luck.”

Comment by NotInMontana
2008-07-17 15:15:16

I’ve noticed a tendency among some seniors to really, really go crazy with the spending. It’s like they want to catch up with the Joneses, finally, or make believe they’re rich, or just don’t care anymore. Just enough of the brain cells go and they lose their normal restraint.

I had a couple clients, an elderly couple, where the guy kept buying used cars. Couldn’t pass up a deal and just bought one after another. He was getting alzheimers and I did a divorce for them so he wouldn’t drag down her finances. It was kinda sad but he couldn’t control himself.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-17 16:36:02

But, the Reverse Mortgage pushers are pushing this concept of seniors having money to live the good life ,and why not spent it before you die ,and you earned it ,and all the sales pitches .

I know a lady that got a Reverse Mortgage and doesn’t overspend and it just supplements her modest income . From what I understand the Reverse Mortgage is a rather expensive loan to get however .

Currently the Reverse Mortgage lenders have a lot less equity to work with in giving reverse mortgages .

Really,for a high price ,the Reverse Mortgage lenders are just offering the seniors a way of using their home equity to supplement their income , without selling their house .

You would think that it might be more intelligent for the seniors
to just sell the house and rent or buy a cheaper home or move to apartment living . Inflation is eating away at seniors ,and I don’t see that they have as many choices as they use to have .The other way that inflation affects the younger generations is that seniors will not have as much wealth to pass down if they have to burn up equity just to survive . To bad ,because I always liked the concept of generations passing down homesteads from one generation to the next .

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Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-17 19:05:13

Seniors don’t want to move, the ones that aren’t loaded with money. I have heard more than a few men and women at the skip bo card games, or Texastrain dominos or penny poker games say, “not moving, the only way I am leaving is feet first”.
Since I was a child I have lived in areas that are retirement communities, and believe me, the majority, the vast majority have no money to speak of.
In the media and from shows and the few we see in towns across America driving fancy cars, well, the majority aren’t driving at all or at least old cars, cheapo cars.
I know many who live in rentals, but couldn’t move because the section 8 for seniors , the List is years long and they don’t have anywhere else to move.
The ones who own, well, they just don’t want to pack and move away from what they know.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-17 12:55:03

“It’s the media’s fault only in that we have dumbed down the way we report and write the news.’”

Dude, do you really want reporters investigating your claims rather than just using what you write for them ?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-17 12:58:35

I wonder at what point it dawned on people that they could just get a hotel room for a few nights, in lieu of paying around $500k for a condo-hotel room?
_______________________________________________________________

“The Signature buyers filed as a class action. The prices paid by the named plaintiffs ranged from $425,000 to $745,000. The fundamental problem, Alexander said, was the mindset that prevailed during the real estate boom.”

“‘Condo-hotels are a lifestyle decision, a very cost-effective way to have a second home,’ he said. ‘Unfortunately too many buyers viewed them as an investment. And unfortunately, a lot of developers used that to their advantage.’”

Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-17 13:22:33

“‘Condo-hotels are a lifestyle decision, a very cost-effective way to have a second home,’

My second home doesn’t rely on strangers taking big smelly dumps in my bathroom.

Comment by Wickedheart
2008-07-17 14:15:06

“Lifestyle” is just another one of those boring overused adjectives (like creative, sanctuary, innovative, etc.)

 
 
Comment by bink
2008-07-17 13:22:36

Who do you sue when you get bedbugs or scabies from a black market hotel room?

 
 
Comment by boulderbo
2008-07-17 13:10:07

official mls inspection report from 12 square miles surrounded by reality, otherwise known as boulder, colorado. 568 attached units priced over $500,000 available or under construction. total number of units sold for all of 2008-

7, yes seven with the highest price $699,000

gonna be ugly

 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 13:10:09

“New-home sales in Las Vegas have been consistently low over the past six months and appear to have reached the bottom of the current down cycle, a local housing analyst said Wednesday.”

Whew! Finally. I thought the bottom would never get here.

I’ll bet Guntermann-Guntermann will be glad to hear that.

Now if we can just get a “top” in on gas prices…

 
Comment by Neil
2008-07-17 13:12:19

‘I wish the purveyors of doom and gloom understood that simple fact!’”

We understand this was a global bubble that hasn’t come close to hitting bottom. I’m waiting until mortgages are tough to get by historical standards and invenotry is at sane levels. This guy deserves a Joshua Tree.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-07-17 13:40:03

Sellers should be grateful that someone wants to buy their homes at reasonable prices and stop acting like victims and/or prima donnas. That will only happen when they turn off the easy mortgage spigot, and that hasn’t happened yet, despite everything.

 
 
Comment by laonlooker
2008-07-17 13:16:21

“Realtor Christianne Gordon said…one must consider declined home values. ‘If you are a seller, you may still be pining for prices of 2005,’ she said. ‘If you don’t absolutely have to sell right now, and simply can’t stomach the temporary market correction we are in, don’t.’”

Now I’ve heard everything. Temporary market correction?!?!? What does she think will happen. The market will correct (as it should) and then go right back to double digit increases? Damn, realtors are either really really stupid or they think we are really really stupid.

Comment by patient renter
2008-07-17 13:36:38

Damn, realtors are either really really stupid or they think we are really really stupid.

Very well put.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-17 13:52:55

After all the nonsense we’ve seen over the past few years I think we had a bubble in stupidity too.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-07-17 13:44:17

Here in Tucson, the correction phase is supposed to be followed by a phase called “when the market improves.” I surmise that this phase will be characterized by the return of those double-digit increases.

 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 13:53:35

…and simply can’t stomach the temporary market correction we are in, don’t.

Let me see if I understand…

If I can’t sell my house now for the amount of money I want, I should wait for this “correction” to be over. After that, the price of houses will go back to where they were, as if this silly little “correction” never took place.

2005 price - $559,999
2008 price - $359,999
201? price - $559,999

Is that it? That’s simple. Hell, even I can understand that.

Phew!

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-17 16:53:43

My guess is that it will take maybe 15 years to get back to 2005/2006 prices ,but it could take 20 years . People I talk to on the street think
that the market will go back to peak prices in a couple of years at the most . But all this brainwashing of the public that this is just a little correction that will be over with is just absurd . Once a market crashes ,it takes many many years to come back up again ,especially because this market was a fake market that was based on a bunch of unable borrowers .

Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-17 19:08:34

I have been hearing that as well.
“It will go down, but go back up again in a few years”.

Where do these people get their HS or college degrees,
At ‘Stinkin Thinkin U’ ?

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-07-17 13:59:19

Used house salespeople know there are always a few suckers out there, and a new one born every minute, and that is the target audience.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2008-07-17 13:29:47

gonna be ugly

I got a feeling that any shack with a woodstove, a garden and a great big dog will be selling for a premium shortly :)

 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-17 13:31:09

Portraying the market in broad strokes isn’t fair or honest…

Hmm. I wonder what they used to say about the media when the news was all good?

 
Comment by Tommy Tune
2008-07-17 13:32:02

“Realtor Christianne Gordon said…one must consider declined home values. ‘If you are a seller, you may still be pining for prices of 2005,’ she said. ‘If you don’t absolutely have to sell right now, and simply can’t stomach the temporary market correction we are in, don’t.’”

Temporary market correction???? Somebody should explain to Christianne the meaning of “correction” It’s not a temporary thing. A true correction means prices return to where they belong according to the fundamentals. Once they correct they’re not going to bounce back unless there’s another bubble, which seems very unlikely. It’s amazing that newspapers still give print space to realtors since %99 of the quotes are clueless babble, spin or just plain lies.
Another good quote from the post was the realtor who talked about senior homeowners with “trapped equity” because they couldn’t sell their homes. It’s not “trapped equity”, it’s phantom equity. It’s gone and not likely to return. These realtors talk like the bubble was a normal market and this downturn is a temporary thing. I guess we still have a long way to go.

Comment by wmbz
2008-07-17 14:49:01

“These realtors talk like the bubble was a normal market and this downturn is a temporary thing”.

That’s all they know, somewhere along the line credence was given to real-a-tors as if they were special and smart “professionals”. The vast majority haven’t a clue, some of the most disconnected people I have ever meet. Not unusual though, it’s life long conditioning.

 
 
Comment by FallandRise
2008-07-17 14:11:55

“‘They can’t build them for any less than they’re selling for now or they just won’t build them,’ he said.”

Dennis Smith has made this comment before but there is never any numbers to substantiate that builders are currently selling for cost (marginal cost = marginal revenue).

For example: Say a builder starts a 1,000 square foot starter home. A very reasonable direct cost per square foot is about $45. That equals $45,000. Add in development costs (excluding land since it is now a sunk cost) of say $30,000. We are now at $75K. Include permits and fees of $20K, indirect costs of $20K, advertising, sales and closings costs of $10K, finance costs at $10k and we now are at $125K.

If builders were to reduce the size of their homes and reduce the spec level to bare bones they can easily reduce their prices further. Even a 1,500 square foot home would be under $200K. For private builders the real reason that can not lower is that their construction loans are higher than current sales prices. KB on the other hand has already lowered some of their units to the mid $100. Who will follow next?

Comment by Hailey
2008-07-17 14:34:58

Some of the local builders in my area are reducing prices. Ryland reduced about $30K in the last month in one development. But the biggest one I’ve seen so far is up the road, Joyce Homes with a $100K drop on one of their inventory ranches. But even at the new price $650K, it’s still painful expensive.

 
Comment by mikey
2008-07-17 15:29:58

“‘They can’t build them for any less than they’re selling for now or they just won’t build them,’ he said.”

Welcome to General Motors ! :)

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-17 14:20:19

‘Some of the go-go seniors are having trouble because they have trapped equity in their homes,’

Oh Behave!

 
Comment by Wickedheart
2008-07-17 14:21:44

According to the Las Vegas Business Prees article condo hotels got their start in Florida as a way to unload surplus beach condos.

I got to give props to whoever thought of that one. What a way to sucker people!

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-17 15:54:57

I saw that. Condotels have to be the dumbest con going. When I was posting about them back in 2005, you would have thought these people were finding gold on the pavement.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-17 14:34:29

Valley home prices fell 15 percent in June, sales down 32 percent

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_9910966

I checked the numbers, my own place has dropped $81K since June 2007. No wonder the “for sale” signs keep popping up around San Jose.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-17 14:39:41

Wile E. Coyote Homebuilders, Inc.

An Off-The-Cliff Drop In Prices

 
Comment by Former FB
2008-07-17 15:58:47

I took a closer look at the Longmont story, trying to figure out what the catch is. First they talk about how sales for the town may be higher than last year. OK, I guess I’ll have to take their word for that. Then they say this:

“Foreclosures continue to be a factor in the Longmont real estate market, as they are nationally. There have been 327 foreclosures filed within Longmont’s 80501 and 80503 ZIP codes through June, according to Boulder County Public Trustee records.

That’s on pace to surpass last year’s total of 574 foreclosures filed, which was a record.”

The catch is in the zip codes. If you were reading that and didn’t know better, you’d think that those two zip codes were the whole town, but they’re not. There’s at least one more zip code that probably has more foreclosures than those two put together, but they conveniently leave that out.

So what’s really going on is that increasing sales or not, I’m betting they have more foreclosures than total sales this year. That’s probably not the story they’d prefer to publish, though.

Comment by db
2008-07-17 16:59:32

Actually, 80501 & 80503 encompass the vast majority of Longmont. 80502 is PO Boxes and 80504 is a less populated area (though it should have been included).

What’s happened in CO, as near as I can figure, is that we had a foreclosure law change January 1st that changed the cure period from 75 days to 120 days. The effect this has had, is that we’ve had a 2-1/2 month foreclosure hiatus from spring to early summer. Properties started going to auction again at the beginning of the summer and will be hitting the market about now as REOs.

This fall will probably be rather interesting.

Comment by Former FB
2008-07-17 18:30:03

80504 includes all the new FB housing all the way out past I-25. Check out foreclosure.com for that zip.

Comment by db
2008-07-17 23:08:59

I would call that Del Camino, not Longmont. Also, nearly all of that is in Weld county, not Boulder county. Nevertheless, I concede your point; it is the same economic area.

The other thing that tends to keep Longmont stronger is it’s proximity to Boulder where housing prices are much higher. Longmont is a strange place. Half of the town are professionals who work in Boulder and the other half is comprised of various concentrations of legal, semi-legal and illegal Mexicans. It’s almost as if there are two very separate economies, cultures and languages in the same town, roughly divided by Main St.

I think if Boulder ever encounters the new reality, the Boulder correction will take Longmont down much farther and harder than has happened so far. (Also Lousiville, Superior, etc.)

Will Boulder fall? I don’t know. It’s always managed to defy the traditional income to SFR price ratio.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Tad
2008-07-18 04:35:46

db,
That probably explains why the local paper (The Daily Sentinel) had such static legal notices for the first part of the year, the number of foreclosures are starting to rise again…even here in the heart of the natural gas industry.

 
 
 
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