July 21, 2008

People Thought Housing Prices Would Go Up Indefinitely

The Fresno Bee reports from California. “Thousands of Fresno County homeowners are getting some good news in the mail: They owe less in property taxes this year. That may lessen the sting of the bad news that comes with it: The homes they purchased during the height of the housing boom are now officially worth less. The county reassessed 46,500 properties — most single-family homes — bought since 2004.”

“The properties have declined in value a total of $2.5 billion. Similar reassessments are happening in Tulare and Kings counties and elsewhere in the state.”

“Miranda Brown said her home near Fort Washington Country Club in north Fresno has an assessed value of $530,000. Just two years ago, it was valued at $695,000.”

“Brown doesn’t know how much she will save in property taxes, but said she wasn’t too discouraged by the drop in her home’s value. ‘It’s the market, it’s going to go back up,’ she said. ‘I just have to sit on it and wait.’”

The Contra Costa Times. “The housing market meltdown that is eroding homeowner equity is now hurting local governments as county assessors in hard-hit portions of the state, including the East Bay, report that property tax revenues will be far less than anticipated.”

“In Contra Costa, the extent of the softening of property assessments for the 2008-09 fiscal year caught city and county officials by surprise. ‘We were quite shocked,’ said County Administrator John Cullen.”

“In Contra Costa, the news is just circulating. Assessor Gus Kramer reduced the valuation on 30 percent of the 274,400 single-family homes in the county. ‘No way,’ said San Pablo Finance Director Bradley Ward when I told him about his city’s assessment.”

“What seems almost certain is that next year will be even worse. That’s because the latest assessments for the 2008-09 fiscal year, which began July 1, are based on the value of homes as of Jan. 1, 2008.Since the start of the year, property values have only declined further.”

The Mercury News. “For Silicon Valley homeowners, the collapse of housing prices has everyone worried. One-fifth of the houses for sale in Santa Clara County today are now priced at less than $450,000, a figure that was unthinkable even a year ago.”

“But for scores of local, longtime renters, the fragile economy may present a unique opportunity. ‘I’ve been wanting to buy a house for a long time,’ said Chanelle Brearley, 27. ‘We’re just getting our feet wet, but everyone says the market may be coming down. Maybe we do have a chance.’”

“Jackie Morales-Ferrand, assistant director of San Jose’s Department of Housing, said San Jose is eager to help city workers, from teachers to faculty at San Jose State University and postal employees, buy houses.”

“The two-hour class is required to qualify for down payment assistance. ‘It answered a lot of doubts we had in our minds,’ said Dr. Neelam Rattan, a psychology professor at San Jose State who currently rents an apartment in the Evergreen area. ‘We keep hearing prices are going down. Paying rent is just money going down the drain.’”

The Tribune. “Construction of new homes in San Luis Obispo County continues to slow this year, as residential building permit activity shapes up to be the lowest it’s been in more than a decade, according to a local industry trade group.”

“If the trend continues, this will be the fourth consecutive year that fewer residential building permits are issued countywide compared to the year before. This year’s numbers are on pace to be the lowest since 1992, Home Builders Association of the Central Coastspokesman Jerry Bunin said.”

“Bruce Gibson, 2nd District county supervisor, said the drop in residential permit activity is a reflection of unresolved national economic issues. ‘I think people thought housing prices would go up indefinitely,’ he said.”

“Home builders are experiencing significant losses as many of their completed projects continue to go unsold, said Jerry Rioux, executive director of the San Luis Obispo County Housing Trust Fund.”

“‘This is horrible for the builders,’ Rioux said. ‘We’ll see some go bankrupt and projects stopped midway.’”

The North County Times. “Data suggest that North County’s foreclosure beast evolving as it spreads beyond subprime to all sorts of loans. In two areas that have dominated foreclosures over the last year —- north Oceanside and east Escondido —- cases have flattened over the last three months. Meanwhile, foreclosures in neighborhoods with newer homes and higher median incomes, such as places in San Marcos and Carlsbad, are growing.”

“‘As prices continue to decline, we’ll see more foreclosures. And as we see more foreclosures, we see more price declines,’ said Sean O’Toole, founder of ForeclosureRadar. ‘It’s kind of a toilet bowl effect.’”

“‘The overall pace ‘hasn’t dissipated at all,’ said Ward Hanigan, founder of a San Diego foreclosure investment firm.”

“Hanigan said he does not expect to buy up foreclosed properties until 2010. He said his company is waiting until a recovery is in sight for housing. ‘When the banks get so desperate that they’ll sell us one or two properties at a wholesale price, then we’ll know we’re at a bottom,’ he said. ‘We’re not at that liquidation mind-set yet.’”

“JPMorgan Chase released its second-quarter earnings report Thursday. Its findings support the trend of price depreciation forcing foreclosures among less risky borrowers.”

“While subprime losses continued to dominate, foreclosures on prime mortgages are starting to hit the bank hard. Subprime losses have jumped sixfold from a year ago. Prime losses are up 25-fold.”

“‘We are seeing that the problem loans have spilled beyond subprime, beyond home equity (lines of credit) and into prime,’ said Thomas Kelly, spokesman for the bank. ‘Some people could afford it (the house), but chose not to, and the biggest impact is falling home prices.’”

The Orange County Register. “This year is shaping up as one of local real estate’s lousiest for home sellers or anyone who makes a living off selling houses. The median selling price for 2008 so far was $500,000 - down $125,000 from the year before, a 20 percent decline.”

“Shoppers weren’t impressed, though. Just 10,782 Orange County homes have been sold from January through June, according to DataQuick Information Systems. That’s the smallest number of sales for any six-month period in records dating back to 1988. At the same time, soaring foreclosures and loan defaults top peaks of the 1990s.”

“Banks took possession of 5,317 houses and condos in the first half of the year. That’s 28 percent more than the 4,160 foreclosures in all of 2007.”

“Here’s another measure: lenders took possession of 1,131 homes in May alone. That was the highest monthly total since at least 1988, when DataQuick began tracking foreclosures, and 68 percent higher than the record set in the 1990s.”

“Growing foreclosures spells even more price declines for the future, said Irvine housing consultant John Burns. ‘How can prices stabilize when there are more people going into default than buying homes?’ he asked.”

“Over-priced properties are drawing little attention, said agent Cary Hairabedian. ‘The houses that are sitting are overpriced for their condition and their location,’ he said. ‘Buyers aren’t stupid. They were stupid in 2005 and 2006, but they’ve sobered up real quick.’”

“Hunter Norred, 22, a new real estate agent…agreed last week to buy a repossessed two-bedroom condo in Placentia for $115,000. County records show that the unit’s pre-foreclosure sales price was $325,000. He estimated his monthly payment and dues at $1,000.”

“‘You couldn’t even get a two-bedroom apartment for that,’ Norred said.”

The LA Daily News. “Concerned about crime and a spike in abandoned homes, more than 100 residents poured into the Sportsmen’s Lodge on Sunday for a neighborhood empowerment meeting. The more than 80,000 foreclosures in California during the last quarter of 2007 have left their mark on the San Fernando Valley.”

“As a result, gangs and vandals are zeroing in and are converting some into hangouts. Residents fear the properties are creating blight, said Los Angeles Councilwoman Wendy Greuel, who hosted the meeting.”

“One developer in foreclosure did not finish tearing down three homes in the 11900 block of Riverside Drive. Transients began moving in. Graffiti sprang up. The eyesore prompted residents to call city officials for help, Greuel said.”

“‘It’s a double tragedy. It’s a tragedy that someone loses a home or a developer loses a property,’ she said. ‘At the same time, you want to ensure that the neighborhood is protected.’”

“Terry Holtzman has watched his income sour in recent months as the plummeting housing market pushed much of the Southland’s economy to the verge of recession. And now, when the Woodland Hills construction worker has less to spend, rising prices for everything from food to fuel have intensified the squeeze on money for even the most basic of needs: such as keeping the power on at home.”

“‘It’s tightening up my budget,’ Holtzman said as he waited to pay his $350 Department of Water and Power bill at a Winnetka customer service center last week. ‘I’m not being able to pay my bills in full for whatever bills I have.’”

“DWP officials said 358,374 customers - nearly one in four of the 1.4 million the utility serves - had overdue bills in May. That was 13 percent more customers with overdue bills than in May of last year, officials noted.”

“The vast majority of the 358,374 - about 293,000 of them - were homeowners, according to DWP records. But overdue accounts of apartment dwellers also surged - up 40 percent from a year ago to 22,251.”

“‘They’re in a vise and don’t know when it will ease,’ said Jack Kyser, chief economist with the nonprofit Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. ‘In many cases they’re really stuck and don’t know what to do. It’s easier to let the utility bill slide and then catch up, especially if they’re facing a big jump in variable-rate mortgage payments.’”

The Pasadena Star News. “A $33 million housing project originally intended to provide affordable homeownership in Old Town Monrovia has been converted into leasable units as the developer attempts to weather a distressed housing market.”

“The Colorado Commons housing development on West Lemon Avenue was originally intended as purchasable condominiums when Barker Pacific Group, the developer, began construction in October 2006.”

“Since then, however, the ‘unprecedented condition of the mortgage lending market’ has led Barker to seek approval from the Monrovia City Council to instead rent the units, according to City Manager Scott Ochoa.”

“Barker intended to price the residential units between $375,000 and the high $700,000s when they began the project. Now, however, in today’s market, the value of any one unit ‘could be from 15 to 25 percent lower,’ said Reed Garwood, project manager for Barker.”

“Barker must pay Monrovia $2,500 per month to compensate the city for the loss of property tax revenue. Barker must also promote a lease-to-own program for renters. Also, the units must be converted back into purchasable condominiums within 12 months of when the median home value in the area returns to September 2006 levels.”

“That probably won’t happen anytime soon, Garwood predicted. ‘It will probably be a while - not in the immediate future. Somewhere around four to five years, depending how it goes,’ he said.”

“City spokesman Dick Singer said that the project would likely have been foreclosed upon had Barker not been allowed to convert the units into rentals. ‘They don’t have enough to pay the bank,’ he said. ‘What we’re facing is a takeover by the lending institutions of the whole project.’”

“The three council members who voted for the conversion said leasing was the best available option, under the circumstances. ‘No one foresaw the depth of where we are today,’ said Mayor Pro Tem Dan Kirby at the council meeting. ‘This was not our first choice.’”

“The property was previously a ‘large police problem’ before it was developed, according to Councilman Tom Adams.”

The Daily Pilot. “Getting more people on the Westside to buy homes instead of renting has been a top priority for city officials, but they have experienced a setback in achieving that goal. The Costa Mesa City Council voted unanimously Tuesday to allow a developer planning to build 151 condominiums to rent them instead of selling them.”

“Nexus Development Corporation, which already owns the parcel of Westside land on which the company plans to build the condos, pleaded with the council that it could not possibly finance the project if it were forced to sell the units because of the housing slump.”

“‘The problem with having some sort of restriction is that you can’t get financing,’ said Cory Alder, the president of Nexus. ‘There are different types of lenders. There are lenders for rental projects and lenders for condominium projects. Lenders for condominium projects are not in the market today.’”

“More than a dozen Westside business owners and residents came to speak in favor of giving the developer the freedom to put up a rental complex, but most echoed the council’s preference for owner-occupied condominiums.”

“‘The huge problem on the Westside is overcrowding. We’ve got too many rentals, and we’ve got too many people living in those rentals,’ said Roger MacGregor, the founder of MacGregor Yacht Corporation, which owns the 5 acres immediately east of the proposed project.”

The Desert Sun. “In May, the residents of the neighborhood north of Vista Chino and west of Landau Boulevard heard that the developer had stopped paying for upkeep of the community park, clubhouse and pool. Since then, they’ve kept up the area as much as possible just through volunteers.”

“That attitude seems more the exception than the rule. ‘I’ve got my own yard’ and ‘I’m having trouble keeping up with mine,’ is a common refrain.”

“Andrea Dooley, steering committee member of the Cove Neighborhood Association in La Quinta, said she isn’t surprised the helping neighbor of yesteryear is scarcely found.”

“‘The reality is - I don’t know, maybe I’m negative on this - I just don’t see that (helping spirit), not just in our neighborhood, but any neighborhood,’ she said. ‘Without (a homeowners association), I would say there aren’t many people that would step up to the plate.’”

“Michael Richerson, a Palm Springs Realtor, paid $25 for someone to haul away a rotting couch from a foreclosure down the street from his home. ‘It was worth it to get rid of it because I was tired of looking at it,’ he said.”

“Ernest Meeker and his partner Douglas Cron chipped in. Facing an impending foreclosure that they sidestepped by signing the home back over to the lender, the couple commuted between their rental and their Cathedral City home to water the grass and care for the pool - until the bank changed the locks.”

“‘We were trying to make it look like we were still there,’ Cron said. Cron and Meeker had hoped to work something out with the bank that would keep them in their home.”




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92 Comments »

Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-07-21 13:52:15

“Miranda Brown said her home near Fort Washington Country Club in north Fresno has an assessed value of $530,000. Just two years ago, it was valued at $695,000.”

Merry Christmas Miranda. Oh BTW while it is an “accessed” vaule. Good luck on every selling it for that much.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-21 14:01:28

But it will go right back up again as soon as we reverse all the tighter lending standards and lower interest rates to zero. Right ?

Comment by cvca
2008-07-21 14:14:18

Actually, it’s already turning around…

Being here in Fresno and hearing that only 2 Starbux are closing is hope that the economy is making a turn for the better here. After all, they opened 20+ stores last year, so if that keeps up this year they will open 18 (20-2) more. That’s growth my dear Fresnans.

And where there’s a new Starbux, there is a new neighborhood waiting to be built. And we all know that means prices go up for existing home owners. Heck, even our Mayors works out of a Starbux.

I’m so happy, I could pee. Oh wait, I rent. Damn, I’m missing out.

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-07-21 15:59:03

Dude, put down the latte and just say no. Oh wait, you live in Fresno………….on second thought, you’d better hang on to whatever chemical enhancement you can get your hands on.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-21 17:37:17

Fresno is like Bakersfield, but without the charm.

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Comment by BanteringBear
2008-07-21 18:18:27

The Pinedale area’s quite charming, if you’re into the macabre…

 
Comment by Central Valley Guy
2008-07-21 20:07:36

Having just spent the day [today] in both cities, I can honestly say Bakersfield has less charm than Fresno. But going back to the original story, a $500K home should be an EXTREME rarity in Fresno given that the median job IS a Starbucks wage.

 
Comment by Sailor
2008-07-21 22:06:27

I live just south of Frezno in an even smaller area where people still think thier crap shacks are worth half a million dollars. Hell people around here are still trying to get 200k for an acre of desert dirt.

We were about 2 years behind the curve when house prices starting going up, so I imagine we will lag a bit behind going down. Patiently waiting for all the alt-A’s and military transfers start to hit the market. It will get ugly then and I will be ready.

 
Comment by cvca
2008-07-21 22:46:42

I smell Lemoore

 
Comment by Dani W
2008-07-22 09:18:41

There’s charm in Bakersfield - downtown, try Dewar’s Ice cream and there’s the river bike trail.

There’s also charm in Fresno - i.e. the Tower district.

The problem with both cities is their rampant sprawl and poor design due to corruption.

 
 
 
 
Comment by incredulous
2008-07-21 16:06:47

You must have missed it. Miranda Brown is all of 31 years old, a true real estate veteran, she’s been through numerous ups and downs in California real estate and really knows what she’s talking about. ROTFLOA

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-07-21 20:14:42


I know the area well. I have friends who have lived in that area for the past 7 years (they changed home within the area) and I have visited them several times. The current home that my friends own was bought for $875K at the peak in 2005. Wifey couldn’t resist after they had sold their prior home for a profit of $175K after commissions.

Jas

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-07-21 22:07:58

oh well easy come easy go…..now we have to get the 2nd and 3rd jobs……..or else

Honey, Did we just throw away $175 THOUSAND dollars on a mortgage………..yes dear we did!

 
 
 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-07-21 13:55:50

“Brown doesn’t know how much she will save in property taxes, but said she wasn’t too discouraged by the drop in her home’s value. ‘It’s the market, it’s going to go back up,’ she said. ‘I just have to sit on it and wait.’”

http://tinyurl.com/5r6b5k

Comment by lavi d
2008-07-21 14:27:45

I just have to sit on it and wait.

Yeah Miranda. Sit on it.

Comment by EggMan
2008-07-21 14:43:43

Sit on it and wait. That’s what we tell our toddler.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-07-21 14:35:18

‘I just have to sit on it and wait.’

What’s she expect? It to hatch golden equity eggs? Just stick with that plan Ms. Brown.

 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2008-07-21 17:41:10

Let’s see…

“Real estate only goes up.”

“It’s going to be a soft landing.”

“The real estate problem is contained.”

And now we have da da daaaaa!

“It’s the market, it’s going to go back up,’ she said. ‘I just have to sit on it and wait.’”

Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2008-07-21 18:18:56

Oh my goodness.

We’re still in denial

 
 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-21 13:58:42

Dr. Neelam Rattan, a psychology professor at San Jose State who currently rents an apartment in the Evergreen area. ‘We keep hearing prices are going down. Paying rent is just money going down the drain.’”

I guess Dr. Rattan was asleep at the “Herd Psychology” lecture in school.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-07-21 14:18:09

I suppose that Dr. Rattan would be much better off had he bought at the peak and watched 200-300K in value vanish before his eyes. Makes that rent money that “went down the drain” look like chicken feed.

 
Comment by lavi d
2008-07-21 14:30:26

I guess Dr. Rattan was asleep at the “Herd Psychology” lecture in school.

Not to mention the “Mass Hysteria”, “Crowd Mania” and “Collective Delusion” seminars.

 
Comment by simiwatch
2008-07-21 15:17:15

Delusion of Grand Renting Persecuting?

Comment by Ouro Verde
2008-07-21 15:38:19

I have a persecution complex myself.
I just asked LL to clean out rain gutters.
No dice!
What do they want from us?

Great Cali thread today
I am downright jovial.

 
 
Comment by chilidoggg
2008-07-21 16:44:52

This man shames me to admit that I am a product of the California State University system. I also had a Japanese professor in some economics class who would daily blather about how the value of all the real estate in Tokyo was worth more than the entire United States (this was in 1991.) I had no knowledge of real estate valuation then, but I remember thinking this was way way way out of whack. And I guess I was right. Cal State L.A. was also the stomping grounds of real estate guru Marshall Reddick. He would charge people $40 bucks to sit in a classroom about how you make money when you buy low and sell high, and then take everyone to Shakey’s Pizza on Valley Boulevard in Alhambra. Nothing sells like success! (no, he didn’t get MY 40 bucks.)

 
Comment by alta
2008-07-21 17:41:27

To pay rent to the landlord or interest to the bank, it’s the same choice like in front of a double kitchen sink.

 
Comment by Red Baron
2008-07-21 20:07:57

“Paying rent is just money going down the drain.”

In California, it is mortgage payments that are “just money going down the drain.” The median house price in California was about $330K in June–it will be about $200K three years from now.

“Hunter Norred, 22, a new real estate agent…agreed last week to buy a repossessed two-bedroom condo in Placentia for $115,000. County records show that the unit’s pre-foreclosure sales price was $325,000.”

These types of declines will be commonplace in California, even in the most affluent areas. In Marin county, large, upscale condos asking $600K will be asking $350K in three years as the depression progresses.

Keep the popcorn popping,

Red Baron

Do the following to get through the depression: 1. Get and keep a job 2. Rent a place or live in an RV so you can be mobile for your job 3. Save at least 25% of your after-tax income 4. Eliminate debt unless you could pay it off if you lost your job.

 
Comment by mikey
2008-07-22 06:37:57

Another production line Phd IDIOT .

The Halls of Higher Education still seems to be spitting them out like Cabbage Patch Kids and Beanie Babies and their current value to society is highly questionable :)

 
 
Comment by Itsabouttime
2008-07-21 14:06:13

Wouldn’t he have had to be awake in order to drink the Kool-Aid that renting is throwing money away? Sounds like he could give the lecture himself.

IAT

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-07-21 14:31:39

“The housing market meltdown that is eroding homeowner equity is now hurting local governments as county assessors in hard-hit portions of the state, including the East Bay, report that property tax revenues will be far less than anticipated.”

Good! I love it when tax revenues are ‘far less’ than anticipated.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-07-21 15:26:10

No problem for the county. Asessments down means tax rates will go up so that total revenues will stay about the same. If you’re not renting from the landlord you’re renting from the local school district.

Comment by WaitingInOC
2008-07-21 17:27:26

Nope, this is California. We’ve got Prop. 13, so the cities can’t raise the tax rates. Even with the declines, though, the tax revenues will not swing that wildly because there are a lot of homes where taxes will increase because the values are still higher than their assessed value (assessed value can only increase 1%, or is it 2%?, per year up to fair market value, so anyone who has owned since before 2004 - give or take a year or two depending on location - can still see their assessed value rise).

 
Comment by Michael Fink
2008-07-21 17:28:29

Well, that would normally be the case. But both CA and FL (as you well know) have systems in place that distort this very simple equation. SOH pretty much ensures that mill rates never go down, no matter what the housing market does (observe 2000-2005), and Prop 13 in CA has a similar distorting effect on the market.

Comment by pullthetrigger?
2008-07-22 00:03:06

Oh sure. The people who were not in on it suddenly decided to buy homes so they ould pay a lot more in taxes. Yeah right. :)

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Comment by Ouro Verde
2008-07-21 15:40:07

I got goose bumps with that one too Wmbz.
Sick yes, necessary yes.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-07-21 18:43:35

“Good! I love it when tax revenues are ‘far less’ than anticipated.”

Geez…no wonder you and ol’ McSame think deficit spending is so wonderful: your grandkids will be paying for your oh-so-generous tax breaks…with interest, of course…so you can fly off to Hawaii every winter and play golf with the other thieves stealing from my generation.

Comment by pismoclam
2008-07-21 23:25:18

NoSingleOne, get over it. You need to buy a house so that you can get the tax deduction! hehehehehehe

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-07-22 02:32:18

I am certain you think there is some huge difference between the two candidates running for President, (dumbo & dumber) but there is very little difference. For whatever reason apparently you believe that one of them BHO will ’save’ the Country, turn it all around with ‘change’. Sorry that won’t happen, should he be elected he’ll spend his term complaining and blaming all of the problems he can’t straighten out on the previous administration. It’s just one big same system party, the Dems have had Congress for two years now, with the lowest approval ratings in History, so how’s that working out? Perhaps one day you’ll get it, it took me many years to figure out they are ALL screwing us, but keep on with the grade school snipes,you’re fairly good at it. Remember the last ’savior’ FDR put most of these now bankrupt systems in place, the chickens are coming home to roost, but we”ll get through it just
fine, despite our nanny’s in D.C

Comment by Dani W
2008-07-22 09:22:56

There may not be as much difference as some starry-eyed voters would like to believe, but I’ll still vote for the one who *didn’t* try to block the recognition of Martin Luther King Day.

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Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-07-21 14:36:54

‘It’s the market, it’s going to go back up,’ she said. ‘I just have to sit on it and wait.’”

That is what people thought of the NASDAQ in 2000 when it hit a peak of 5300 and some change, then crashed. It has never recovered more than 50% of it’s peak since 2000 or eight years later.

The same will happen to property values in the bubble states!

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-07-21 16:01:52

Bingo!

Comment by Ted
2008-07-21 18:35:19

Ditto!

 
 
Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-07-21 18:52:50

I learned that lesson - the expensive way. Never again.

 
 
Comment by Nozferatu
2008-07-21 14:44:32

The Orange County Register. “This year is shaping up as one of local real estate’s lousiest for home sellers or anyone who makes a living off selling houses. The median selling price for 2008 so far was $500,000 - down $125,000 from the year before, a 20 percent decline.”

$500K for the median price is lousy? People are fking insane.

I wish there was an easy way to distance myself from living here and among so many idiots.

Comment by OCDan
2008-07-21 17:29:48

Gotta chime in here about the “OC.”

Wife and I were heading home after grocery shopping yesterday. We saw a condo open house. We decided to look. Our first open house in the 2+ years since we sold our old home.

WHAT A DUMP AND THIS IS IN RANCHO SANTA MARGARITA! The asking price was 349K w/another 100 + 60 a month in HOA fees.

I said nothing as usually I have a bitter tongue about all this. My wife was impressed with my demeanor, but almost said something to the 20-something rookie RE agent.

First, you walk in and cobwebs everywhere. Second, the walls needed not 1, but 4 coats, of paint. This place looked like a fire had blazed through. Third, the carpet. My Gawd! I wouldn’t allow a terrorist to sleep on it. It looked like it was originally brown, but that oil had been poured everywhere. Fourth, the backyard…a bomb went off.

The kicker…this beauty is bank owned. Man, that is gonna hurt.

I told my wife I might offer 149K, just for kicks. The work alone would cost another 200K.

Just terrible. And by the way, the half bath on the first floor isn’t big enough for a toddler, let alone a grown human.

What a joke.

How depressing.

Wife continues to see my wisdom.

Looking forward to a trip to Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone in 4 weeks.

You can keep the condo, Mr. Bankster. I will go on vacay again for the 3rd consecutive year. And a real vacay, not some 4-day weekend getaway at the state beach.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-07-21 19:49:46

“Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone”

Visited this combo in July 2003 - great trip. If you drive between them try to work in a quick stop at the Little Big Horn National Park in eastern MT right off I-90. Good history - compelling site.

Vacations beat the stuffing out of overpriced houses!

Comment by Sagesse
2008-07-21 22:35:35

I like Cody (to visit).

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-07-21 23:16:19

One year with my grandfather, father, mom and sister, drove to Glacier, Yellowstone, and the Grand Tetons. Also visited Cody. The Buffalo Bill Museum is very interesting.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by EggMan
Comment by sfbayqt
2008-07-21 16:20:08

What a story! Patterson is in the middle of nowhere…NOWHERE…and the developers thought they were creating some kind of paradise? I guess they had visions of creating another Summerlin, Nevada.

Well, that didn’t happen. Sucks, though, that the people who live there have stinky brown water…can’t drink it, bath in it, cook or smell the vapors. And a faulty water distribution design? What? UNbelievable.

And now….the developers are filing bankruptcy. Unreal. The stories keep getting worse and worse.

BayQT~

Comment by Eggman
2008-07-21 21:08:58

Hell, that isn’t even in Patterson - it’s over on the other side of I-5. It isn’t even in the middle of nowhere, it’s out past the middle of nowhere. Unless you’ve driven down I-5 and looked at the nothing that is on the west side, you people in other states can’t conceive of how ridiculous this is. I have a very hard time believing that ANYONE would spend money on ANYTHING out there.

 
Comment by gab
2008-07-22 09:40:54

What authorities would even let them build w/o a water source? This is beyond idiotic, and illustrative of much of what is wrong with development in California.

 
 
 
Comment by no mo So Cal
2008-07-21 15:06:17

We have bottomed out in my area. Not enough foreclosures to trash our market and we did not experience the FL and CA gains. We are off 6-15% from the peak and holding. Inventory is down too.

But we are special here, always have been. :)

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-21 15:08:51

So you are in New Mexico? I dunno…

Comment by chilidoggg
2008-07-21 16:33:18

her name is No Mo So Cal, so she can’t be in New Mexico…

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-21 16:47:38

That’s where the IP looked to be from.

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Comment by dude
2008-07-21 21:46:05

Yes, but Ben, they weren’t doing 125% LTV pay option loans in NM, right?

Right?

(crickets chirping)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by simiwatch
2008-07-21 15:13:29

Ran into an old aquantance this week.

She is a Physical Therapist and he was a mortgage broker for 15 years. Currently, he is out of work and looking for any type of work. In his words: I will do anything for a work. He wanted to work for a friend doing construction work. I thought get real dude. Your hands are soft as a babies behind. How are you going to do hard labor!

She is working 40 hrs. per week at her Physical Therapist job and weekends at an old folks home. 60 hrs. per week?

I stared to feel sorry for them and their two kids. Then I remembered the new $800,000 dollar house they moved into 3 years ago, and then proceeded to remodel the kitchen with Granite, stainless steel, pool etc. Did I forget to mention their cars: A new Lexus and new convertible bug and past vacations to Hawaii? Yes, they did mention all their new toys in the past. My how times have changed!

I think there is a whiff of desperation in the air and it is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better!

Comment by Ouro Verde
2008-07-21 15:48:07

That whiff is wafting over here.
I just pay bills and do my thing.
Thanks homeowners for stiffing your lenders
and calling up the national guard federal reserves.
Trying not to swear!

Comment by OCDan
2008-07-21 17:33:45

Anyone get a gander at the NY Times article yesterday? Not trying to promote or get people to feel sorry.

Just pointing out that the debt hole keeps getting larger and larger. This thing may swallow up everything in its path, even those of us who are debt free.

Only the mega wealthy like Gates and Buffet/Munger may survive this. Once the rest of the world catches on…

GAME OVER!!!!

Comment by James
2008-07-21 18:40:57

The problem is we might get really high inflation due to monitization of debt.

Helps the gold bugs and people with debt get bailed out. As I assume the people on entitlements will get raises.

We are seeing some deflation but the government is still prinitng up treasuries.

Could easily end up with 16$/gal gas and 10$/doz eggs. Then where are we?

I’m not talking about hyperinflation but in the grey area of really bad 300-400% inflation.

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Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-21 20:09:01

Walgreens has Eggs for sale 99c. Or maybe it was cause it was a brand new store, no one is in town, virtually no shoppers and it is right next door to an established Longs drugstore next door to a grocery store, so you get it all done in one spot vs a store with nothing around it and No shade. Which is crucial in the desert.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-07-21 15:13:38

Dr. Neelam Rattan, a psychology professor at San Jose State who currently rents an apartment in the Evergreen area. ‘We keep hearing prices are going down. Paying rent is just money going down the drain.’”

I suppose you don’t need to be too particularly bright to be a psychology professor at San Jose State .

 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-07-21 15:22:06

Pet food sales up in Miami
I have a friend that works at a convenience store here in Miami. She also makes out the weekly orders for the store. The neighborhood is borderline slum. She noticed pet food sales are way
up. When mentioning it to a regular while buying dog food. “I didn’t know you have a dog”. The customer replied, “we don’t, it’s for us.”
Things are bad and getting worse. Crime is way up as well.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-21 15:27:57

Kind of hard to beat 49 cents for a can of cat food grade tuna, Tuna Surprise anyone ?

Comment by Ouro Verde
2008-07-21 15:50:08

Tuna rocket wrap with a side a carrot sticks.

Comment by bottomfisherman
2008-07-21 23:18:00

Yum, a fancy feast tuna casserole.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-07-22 09:25:01

Ah, but according to Phill Gramm, the depression / recession is all “in our head.” Right…

This depression will NOT be televised. Even if soup lines stretch for blocks, we’ll hear “great news” about how the number of banks that failed this week “was less then expected” and how the stock market (now wholely backed by the taxpayers) “only goes up!”

 
 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-07-21 16:24:23

“Just 10,782 Orange County homes have been sold from January through June”

Let see, 2.5 Million population in “The O.C.”….10,000 homes sold…unemployment is going down…wages are rising rapidly…sounds like a “Long Term Capital Investment” to me…what will be the monthly payment of a house @ $650,000 & 14+ % interest rate? ;-)

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-21 16:34:35

“Miranda Brown said her home near Fort Washington Country Club in north Fresno has an assessed value of $530,000. Just two years ago, it was valued at $695,000.”

“Brown doesn’t know how much she will save in property taxes, but said she wasn’t too discouraged by the drop in her home’s value. ‘It’s the market, it’s going to go back up,’ she said. ‘I just have to sit on it and wait.’
_____________________________________________________________

neo-Miranda Warning:

You have the right to remain silent and do nothing. Anything the market can do will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to watch the market crumble. If you cannot afford your house, it will be taken away from you.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-21 17:03:14

…..If you require a realtor and cannot afford one an FSBO will be arranged and you will save a great deal of money……

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-07-21 16:39:09

I inquired about a local home with historical value…it was owned by the first mayor of Anchorage. Now owned by a realtor, who bought it in 1980’s (she claims) at $400K and trying to sell for $800K. She rents out 3 spaces (2 commercial and one residential) in the home for about $4K/month. Two of her units are unrented (except the residential one at $1K/mo).

I’m just wondering if anyone knows about what the price should be on a home that is in the National Register of Historic Places? Are they like antiques and more inclined to hold their so-called value?

Comment by goirishgohoosiers
2008-07-21 17:25:53

They’re a mixed bag. IF the place has been maintained, and was owned by someone who respected the historical nature of the place (i.e., no Brady Bunch era decorating in a Victorian), then it can command some premium to the market. As with anything else, your mileage may vary and older houses will deteriorate very quickly if not properly looked after.

Case in point: there is a ca. 1890 house in my neighborhood with the National Register plaque prominently displayed next to the front entrance. The place was built by a local industrialist and in its heyday was a gem. Unfortunately the last owner let it slide into foreclosure and now it is REO. Now think of the, cough, stellar, cough, job that banks do with their 20 or 30 year old REOs and magnify the problem by a power of 5. The paint is peeling both inside and out, the window frames are shifting and who knows whether the pipes have been adequately sealed for the winter. Whoever buys it will certainly have their work cut out for them. And did I mention that the place has been for sale for 2 years while it sits vacant?

Moral to the story: having an historic designation does not necessarily enhance value, and if the property has been allowed to fall into disrepair, any prospective purchaser is going to be in for a lot of expense to bring it back into shape.

One final point to consider: depending on the type of historic designation, there may be constraints imposed upon the house as fas as what you can do to it and this can be real negative in some folks’ minds. Secondly, the neighborhood itself may be designated by the feds or local government as historic and there can be as many different levels of restrictions on a neighborhood historic district as there are clouds in the sky. You need to research what you can and cannot do to the place before you start any work, because you do not want to find out after the contracts have been signed and the hammers start swinging that you did not get the right permit and that you have to stop and begin a sometimes lengthy permit process.

Having said all of that, I’ve lived in an historic district for 10 years, and I wouldn’t live in some McSubdivision that was a cornfield 10 years ago for any money.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-07-21 17:53:48

Thanks for that great advice. Honestly, I think an $800K property is a bit out of my league so I won’t be going that route.

Oddly enough, even though I think it is paid off, she seems disinclined to drop the price even slightly. I think she and her husband are divorcing, if I read between the lines correctly.

From what I can tell, the home has been beautifully maintained and the only improvement I think it needs is a garage, which would have to be free-standing and set away from the building, according to the National Register.

 
 
Comment by MontereyJack
2008-07-21 18:04:25

I’m just wondering if anyone knows about what the price should be on a home that is in the National Register of Historic Places? Are they like antiques and more inclined to hold their so-called value?

This “historic” home was recently for sale:

http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=19310159

Per Zillow they paid $400K in 1997 and tried to sell it in 2006-2007 for $1.8M…it didn’t sell and is now off the market. One of the marketing blurbs was “low taxes for historical home.” They restored the interior with bright colors, but it looked like they were living in a museum. Can’t change anything or you get in trouble…but have to pay all the normal upkeep…to me it’s worth LESS than a similar house next door. Based on nearby rents it is probably worth only $500K now.

Even though Monterey is expensive this is by no means located in a $1.8M neighborhood. More than half of the houses in the area have been converted to rentals. It’s old and congested so there are lots better locations and houses for that kind of money.

Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-21 20:22:46

Beware. VIRUS with this link.
Be careful.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-07-21 16:54:16

Jack-off paying your water & power bill, says Kyser.

“‘They’re in a vise and don’t know when it will ease,’ said Jack Kyser, chief economist with the nonprofit Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. ‘In many cases they’re really stuck and don’t know what to do. It’s easier to let the utility bill slide and then catch up, especially if they’re facing a big jump in variable-rate mortgage payments.’”

Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-21 20:24:51

Not that it matters, but if you let your utility bills lapse doesn’t that immediately “alert” your credit scoring machines and put your fico lower, etc and your cc bill interest rates higher immediately?
Not that it would matter if you were having trouble paying the mortgage on a tanking house/value wise.

 
 
Comment by Wickedheart
2008-07-21 17:37:51

“‘As prices continue to decline, we’ll see more foreclosures. And as we see more foreclosures, we see more price declines,’ said Sean O’Toole, founder of ForeclosureRadar. ‘It’s kind of a toilet bowl effect.’”

Argh, stealing my lines and doing a lousy job of it too. I said awhile back that City Heights, Encanto, Logan Heights, Chula Vista, Paradise Valley and all the other not so great neighborhoods were circling the bowl and about to be flushed. Logan Heights is down 42%, Encanto down 39%, Golden Hills down 39%, City Heights down 32%. I’ll have to find the chart from the UT this morning, it’s ugly, really ugly, just like I told everyone. The crappiest areas had the most appreciation and they are going down the fastest.

 
Comment by WaitingInOC
2008-07-21 17:39:34

Pain in the OC - and it’s only getting worse (or better, depending upon your perspective - as I want to buy, it is getting much better, but we still have a long ways to go). Look at the stats:

————————

10,782 homes sold from Jan. thru June in OC (smallest number of sales for any six-month period in DQ’s records dating back to 1988).

5,317 houses and condos foreclosed from Jan. thru June in OC (49.3% of sales in same period). 28% more than the 4,160 foreclosures in all of 2007 (if foreclosures in 2nd half of 2008 are the same, that’s an increase of 155% YOY - and foreclosures will likely be higher in the 2nd half of 2008).

Lenders took possession of 1,131 homes in May alone (foreclosures are increasing). That was the highest monthly total since at least 1988, when DataQuick began tracking foreclosures, and 68 percent higher than the record set in the 1990s.

Comment by em3
2008-07-21 19:33:56

I now wonder if predictions of prices returning to 1990s levels on many of these types of locations was actually too generous.

That many of these places will in fact drop to late 70s/early 1980s levels. I would say “adjusted for inflation” but I believe actual number-values will be repeated on not a few of these outtowns.

 
 
Comment by B.C.
2008-07-21 18:35:26

Shouldnt 25% of people being behind on their energy bills be big news?

Move along, nothing to see here folks …

 
Comment by Jas Jain
2008-07-21 19:42:18


Change in Median Home Prices for All Recorded Sales (New, Resale, Condos, SFH) as per DataQuick, June 2008

County/City/Area From Peak, YoY

Merced County -57.9% -44.6%
MERCED -56.7% -38.9%
STOCKTON -54.1% -45.5%
San Benito County -52.0% -45.2%
San Joaquin County -49.2% -43.2%
LA CANADA FLINTRIDGE -49.1% -31.4%
Stanislaus County -48.7% -41.2%
SACRAMENTO -48.1% -40.3%
WATSONVILLE -47.9% -35.1%
Monterey County -45.0% -43.0%
Santa Barbara County -44.7% -42.5%
LANCASTER -44.3% -40.0%
Sacramento County -43.7% -33.6%
El Dorado County -43.7% -25.0%
PALMDALE -43.6% -38.4%
CHATSWORTH -42.3% -32.8%
SANTA MARIA -41.1% -31.4%
FAIRFIELD -39.8% -31.3%
ROSAMOND -39.1% -33.9%
Madera County -38.9% -28.7%
Contra Costa County -38.0% -37.2%
Yolo County -38.0% -27.9%
MORGAN HILL -37.9% -23.5%
Solano County -37.2% -28.6%
San Bernardino County -37.0% -34.4%
Riverside County -36.8% -32.1%
VACAVILLE -35.7% -23.2%
Placer County -35.0% -22.0%
Napa County -34.8% -21.9%
GILROY -34.6% -33.8%
SIMI VALLEY -34.3% -25.5%
Sonoma County -33.6% -28.2%
Ventura County -33.5% -27.8%
FRESNO -31.7% -23.4%
BAKERSFIELD -31.7% -24.6%
Tulare County -30.6% -18.8%
NORTHRIDGE -30.0% -25.0%
VAN NUYS -29.6% -27.5%
San Diego County -29.5% -26.0%
Fresno County -29.1% -20.4%
Kern County -29.1% -21.2%
Alameda County -28.0% -26.8%
Orange County -27.2% -27.2%
SHERMAN OAKS -26.8% -10.5%
ALTADENA -25.7% -24.2%
SANTA BARBARA -25.5% -22.5%
SANTA MONICA -25.1% -18.4%
Los Angeles County -24.5% -24.3%
Santa Cruz County -24.1% -22.0%
SAN JOSE -21.9% -21.9%
San Luis Obispo County -21.9% -16.4%
Nevada County -21.2% -16.3%
TEHACHAPI -21.0% -7.1%
PASADENA -20.9% -11.0%
San Mateo County -15.8% -14.8%
Santa Clara County -13.9% -13.3%
Marin County -12.1% -12.1%
STUDIO CITY -11.8% -3.1%
San Francisco County -9.0% -7.8%

Jas

Comment by desertdweller
2008-07-21 20:26:53

Jas, do one of these Dataquiks for Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Indian Wells, La Quinta.

Comment by Jas Jain
2008-07-21 21:22:30


PALM DESERT -21.3% -12.0%
PALM SPRINGS -29.8% -19.2%

Jas

 
 
Comment by ozajh
2008-07-22 04:02:34

Yowser.

I gotta say (* shamelessly blows own trumpet *) that the ozajh Crash Scale is looking better and better as time goes on.

And to think when I first suggested it there were people objecting that median prices could not POSSIBLY drop by more than 20% (this was far enough back that I might have still been posting as plain “ajh”).

 
 
Comment by BackToTheBank
2008-07-21 21:27:03

“The huge problem on the Westside [Costa Mesa] is overcrowding. We’ve got too many rentals, and we’ve got too many people living in those rentals,”

I call BS. As time goes on, west side is becoming less overcrowdeder. Many of the illegals have left. Even with a bunch of new housing showing up within the last year, the population has declined, as reported by the OC Register. There are many vacant homes and apartments in west side.

Now if they mean the illegals are packing themselves tighter in existing homes, making those particular addresses more overcrowdeder, that’s another story. But I fail to see how more homes, condos or otherwise, will help alleviate that. The only thing that will help is lower rents. Either that or deportation.

 
Comment by dude
2008-07-21 21:57:51

Wachovia (WB) exits wholesale lending!!!

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/topnews;_ylt=AtwRGrGs7cHuNU3diRurjLu7YWsA/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080721/wachovia_mortgage.html

Wouldn’t ya’ know, I just loaded the truck with puts today?

 
Comment by tarred and feathered
2008-07-21 23:04:20

I heard the median price for a home in Merced is now $160,000. I believe it was over $300,000 two years ago.

 
Comment by Rintoul
2008-07-22 10:43:09

‘Buyers aren’t stupid.’
———–

Classic stuff.

 
Comment by joesixpack
2008-07-22 10:50:16

‘It’s kind of a toilet bowl effect.’”

I love that analogy. When I read that, I went into the bathroom and flushed.

I noticed that initially, the bowl fills (that would be the boom I guess)
then the water stops filling ( the peak)
and as the water goes down it spins round and round (market uncertainty)
until it suddenly, in one gulp dissappears (capitulation).

Oh, then the bowl fills back up again.

 
Comment by makeschips
2008-07-22 11:25:15

The Daily Pilot. “Getting more people on the Westside to buy homes instead of renting has been a top priority for city officials, but they have experienced a setback in achieving that goal. The Costa Mesa City Council voted unanimously Tuesday to allow a developer planning to build 151 condominiums to rent them instead of selling them.”

I drove past this sight after reading about it in the Pilot. I’m guessing the only parcel large enough for 151 condo/repartments is currently a mobile home park! Earth to Earth, ashes to ashes…….

There is a bestselling book out there somewhere about the crooked & inept local politicians. Favorite topics: immigrants & Westside Development.

 
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