July 22, 2008

They’re Giving Away Condos

The Columbus Dispatch reports from Ohio. “It’s an age-old question, one that probably dates back to the mud-brick homes of ancient Mesopotamia: buy or rent? Ken Gold, director of the Ohio State Fisher College of Business Center for Real Estate Education and Research, said there are still good rental deals to be had. ‘There were too many apartments built five to 10 years ago, and there is a lot of empty inventory sitting there,’ he said.”

“And empty inventory equals lower rental prices. ‘Drive around and you’ll see signs in front of apartment complexes that say one or two or even three months free,’ Gold said. ‘That sign says that everything is on the table and negotiable.’”

“‘If you do not have to sell a house to buy a house, this is the absolute best time to buy a house at a good price in a good neighborhood,’ Gold said. ‘They’re giving away condos in Downtown Columbus. They’re just sitting there, empty, and every day it sits there, it costs the developer money.’”

The Lansing State Journal from Michigan. “For-sale signs dot Moorwood Drive in the subdivision tucked between Washington Middle School and Chisolm Hills Golf Club. Few of these houses have been foreclosed on, but those that have are pushing down values in this neighborhood as banks drop prices to unburden themselves of houses.”

“One house here sold in April for $150,000, about $79,000 less than the sheriff’s deed sale in October that put it into the hands of a bank.”

“‘This market is horrendous,’ said Judy Walker, whose husband left Michigan recently for a job in Alabama. The couple’s 1,400-square-foot house is listed at $174,400. Two years ago, Walker said it was appraised for $250,000.”

The Morning Sun from Michigan. “The outlook remains bleak for the central Michigan real estate market as Realtors try to explain to their sellers just exactly what they can do to sell their homes.”

‘Randy Golden, owner of Re/Max of Mt. Pleasant Inc., has never seen a market this bad during his 31 years in the business. ‘We are in what I’m describing as a predatory market,’ Golden said. ‘Buyers are not happy to get a deal anymore, they are going for the jugular.’”

“‘We have a lot of brokers and agents who are telling clients that everythings fine, and that they are busier than they have ever been,’ Golden said. ‘Yeah, right.’ That’s probably the agent that’s working on foreclosures.’”

“‘I’ve got a property at Lake Isabella right now, it was on the market a year ago for $259,000, it’s beautiful. Now, foreclosed, I’ve got it at $161,000. It is move- in condition,and not selling,’ he said.”

“‘It’s been hard to encourage people to invest (in real estate),’ said Phil Kruska, owner of Summit Realty Group. ‘Can we take some lemons and make lemonade? I’d like to say it’s challenging, but am I in denial?’”

“Kruska said ‘homes are selling, just not everybody’s.’”

The Post Tribune from Indiana. “A slumping economy is forcing banks and other financial institutions to pull the reins on commercial lending, officials say, leaving many previously approved municipal housing projects in the dust.”

“‘It would be very difficult to approve a large residential development now,’ said Jack Esala, VP of business banking for Centier Bank. ‘There’s a large inventory of lots available now, and that’s pretty much across the county.’”

“Hobart City building official Caroll Lewis said new home construction in Hobart has dropped dramatically. ‘We’ve issued two new home building permits this year,’ Lewis said. ‘Last year we issued 57. Nobody’s opened a new subdivision.’”

“‘The lending institutions are holding back because of the crisis,’ Lewis said. ‘If we were still in the same position we were three years ago when you could buy a house with no money down, these homes would be selling like hotcakes. In the ’70s you had to come up with 20 percent down. We’re going to go back to that market.’”

From WNDU.com in Indiana. “Foreclosures in the Midwest are up. According to RealtyTrac, in June 2008, Michigan was the 5th highest state for home foreclosures. Ohio came in next at 6th highest. Indiana was ranked 10th, and Illinois 13th. Nevada and California topped the state list.”

“Compare the first half of 2007 to 2008: Indiana had a 26% in home foreclosures so far this year. Comparing Michigan’s numbers during the same time, you’ll see the state had a 151% increase in home foreclosures in 2008!”

“‘They were blindly optimistic that ‘my situation today which enables me to get this mortgage…that’s going to be me three years from now,’ says Realtor Rory Paquette. ‘But to the dismay of many, financial pictures aren’t the same as they were three years ago. And so you have the same person with that adjustable rate mortgage, three years later, who doesn’t qualify to refinance.’”

“Realtors like Paquette, say they’ve been getting a lot of questions from people looking to buy or sell. ‘Buyers are very concerned, how do I know how much a house is worth before I start putting an offer in on it?’ he said.”

The Chicago Tribune from Illinois. “Now that lenders are more stringent about the debt load a borrower can carry in relation to his total income, they may re-check a borrower’s credit before closing, says Ed Conarchy of Cherry Creek Mortgage, Vernon Hills. A significant change can cancel the loan.”

“Buffalo Grove real estate attorney Marc Blumenthal relates one recent transaction where, ‘the buyer had two jobs, and needed the second income to afford the home.’ She lost the second job-and the deal.”

“Mortgage firms have always required a certified appraiser to provide a property value before lending. But in this market, when homes linger as prices drop, the purchase amount a buyer contracts for may be higher than the appraised value.”

“‘You offer $300,000, and then a couple of weeks later, when the lender orders an appraisal, other very similar homes for sale in the neighborhood have reduced their selling price to $280,000,’ says Peru appraiser Jim Blaydes.”

“The appraisal report will note the $20,000 difference, and lenders will consider the home being purchased to be worth $280,000, he adds. When there’s such a discrepancy, the lender often will require more cash upfront. If the buyer doesn’t have it, the seller would have to lower the price.”

“A couple of years ago, when buyers asked for repairs or a price reduction based on what their inspector uncovered, the issues were generally serious, notes John Haas, a Mt. Prospect real estate attorney. Now, however, the list is getting longer and more nit-picky, Haas says.”

“As opposed to the boom times, today’s buyer ‘isn’t worried that there is someone else right behind them ready to bid for the home.’ Sellers, who’ve already agreed to a low price, then refuse to make the repairs, and the contract dies, adds Haas.”

The Des Moines Register from Iowa. “Nearly $96 million worth of residential and commercial property in five Iowa counties is under threat of foreclosure or forced sale as a result of the financial demise of Regency Homes, once the state’s largest home builder.”

“Banking and real estate experts say it could take at least a year to resolve the financial mess, and maybe even longer for lenders to resell property in a troubled real estate market.”

“‘Obviously, over the long term, there is going to be a lot of real estate - both developed and undeveloped - in the hands of lenders over the next six months to a year,’ said Thomas Burke, a Des Moines lawyer representing three lenders. ‘You are going to have all kinds of financial institutions that are the owners of these properties and will be trying to get rid of them as best they can.’”

“Almost 300 fewer homes were sold in the Des Moines area in May compared with the previous year. Meanwhile, foreclosures are on the rise in Iowa, as they are nationally. Polk County received more than 900 court orders to sell foreclosed property in the first sixth months of this year. In all of 2000, there were 364 forced sales.”

“‘This is going to be pretty ugly for a while,’ said Melanie Lumley, who coordinates and oversees sheriff’s foreclosure sales in Polk County.”

The Duluth News Tribune from Minnesota. “Jon Hansen is ready to sell his Superior home and buy a bigger, nicer one. ‘I’m not going to sell myself short for what I think it’s worth,’ Hansen said of his home, which he’ll happily live in indefinitely until he receives a decent offer, he said.”

“Home sales for the first half of this year in the Duluth area were down by 23.8 percent from the first half of 2007. They’re down 17.7 percent in the Superior area. The drop in sales ultimately means a whole lot of Realtors are feeling as if they’re working harder for less.”

“‘We’ve got lots and lots of tire kickers, and no one’s pulling the trigger,’ said Jeffrey L. Vollman, a Realtor with Edmunds Co. of Duluth.”

“Duluth Area Association of Realtors President Tod Vendberg, said one reason prices might not be dropping more is linked to some homeowners not being able to drop their prices if they want to merely break even.”

“And some are walking away from homes in foreclosure, instead of trying to work out a deal with the bank to keep the home or trying to sell it themselves. Edmunds’ agents estimated last month that 200 to 300 foreclosed homes are in the pipeline to be sold in the Twin Ports market, or about 12 percent to 18 percent of the total residential listings in the region.”

“‘A lot of people, they just give up hope once they get their foreclosure letter,’ Vendberg said.”

“Hansen is trying to sell a home in Superior for about $110,000, and buy a home in Duluth. His home has been on the market for 49 days. It’s only been looked at twice.
But he doesn’t intend to cut his price, and he’s not worried about an interest rate increase that would put a $200,000 house beyond his price range.”

“‘I’m not going to put in an offer on a house without knowing the future of our house,’ he said.”

From KETV 7 in Nebraska. “Omaha has not seen the kind of housing slump other areas of the country have endured, but at least one local real estate agent said there are a lot of houses on the market, and it’s taking more time to move them than in years past.”

“Warren and Linda Wilson will put their home that sits at 52nd and Dodge streets up for auction at 6 p.m. Thursday. There is no minimum bid, but the Wilsons will set a price on the day of the auction and if that price isn’t met, there will be no sale.”

“The Wilsons have lived in their home for more than 15 years. The Wilsons are retiring and ready to move on. They’ve already bought their next home in Pennsylvania, closer to family.”

“‘We have had some people who were really interested, but it’s still on the market, so I guess they figure…they can come back,’ Warren Wilson said.”

“Their home has been on the market since March 1. ‘I guess people just think there’s plenty of time and we don’t have to do anything,’ Linda Wilson said.”

“Richard Purchase is with CBS Home Real Estate and he’s working with the Wilsons. He said there are about 6,000 homes on the market in Omaha. ‘There is a lot of inventory around Omaha where people aren’t buying it because they know they have all the time in the world and a whole lot of houses to look at,’ Purchase said.”

Purchase, agent Dick Mikuls and the Wilsons came up with the auction scheme.

“We have so many people sitting on the fence,” Purchase said. “If someone likes this home, they’re not going to be able to sit on the fence. We’re going to be selling this house on July 24.”

“The Wilsons said that for them, it is not about the carrying costs. Their home is paid for. But they like the auction idea because it will give them the answer they’re looking for.”

“‘It gives us a certain amount of certainty, because we have our plans,’ said Linda Wilson ‘We’ll either have a house in Omaha or we won’t, depending on what happens July 24.’”




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62 Comments »

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-22 10:47:53

‘Randy Golden, owner of Re/Max of Mt. Pleasant Inc., has never seen a market this bad during his 31 years in the business.

Randy Golden? That is a GREAT porn star name. Almost as good as the priceless glowing jewel of a porn star name owned by the president of some Florida realtor association or other, you guys remember the one: the incomparable ‘Dick Gaylord’.
Somehow it makes reading all the delightful stories of boo-hooing realtors just that much funnier.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-22 11:23:43

What is this porn business that you speak of? And how does one become a star at it? Is it pronounced like corn?

See, I live in a small remote mountain town in Arizona, and we don’t get exposed to much of the entertainment world like you folks in the PNW. But they say we’re getting telyphones next year. Party lines, of course.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-22 11:40:33

Never mind. BubbleViewer tried to post a link. We’ve got that here, in the store downtown that don’t have windows.

Comment by Termite
2008-07-22 14:33:30

“in the store downtown that don’t have windows.”

The Masonic Lodge…?

http://arizonamasonry.org/

Turn your sound off.

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Comment by SV guy
2008-07-22 15:59:40

Anybody here “well traveled”?

Mike

P.S. If you don’t know what I’m talking about don’t bother.

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-22 12:01:12

Well, Ben, ‘porn’ is much like ‘corn’, only even better. I know that’s difficult to believe, but it is true. Both of those things are messy, are pleasant picnic activities, are enhanced by butter, and in both cases those little pokey stabbing implements make for a better grip.
But there the similarities end.
Corn involves less panties, usually, and is difficult to get fresh when out of season. Corn needs salt, whereas salt is generally contraindicated in porn, unless it’s a specialty sort of production. One costs more than the other, depending on the season and availability, so you know what, it’s best to just stock up on both, is my advice.

Tell you what, why don’t you accede to the numerous requests from all your HBB fans including me and produce a Ben Beefcake Calendar? That will be the start on your way to inevitable stardom. I already told you I’d buy at least a dozen.

Comment by hip in zilker
2008-07-22 13:19:41

Why just Ben? How about “HBB Guys Show Their Stuff 2009.”

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-22 14:26:26

I would rather HBB Girls show their stuff 2009.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-07-22 15:25:10

I think a “HBB Hottie of the Month” contest wouldn’t go amiss…that doesn’t make me a troglodyte, does it?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-22 17:44:55

‘…that doesn’t make me a troglodyte, does it?’

The only thing that matters is, are you a cute troglodyte, Sammy, or will your hairy form in a leopard print loincloth scare us all? Because I say, share and share alike.

And may I say in passing, I would have expected a waaaaay more rousing response to this particular topic. Either everybody’s over on the new forum thingie discussing day-trading or one of those other deeply fascinating topics, or you’re all just getting enervated. Either one is a sad thing.

I’m outta here. I must go search for any leopard print fabric I have. I had some once, but I think it’s caught in the lawnmower right now. I was going to get it out, but I forgot. It’s one of those ‘long story’ things.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2008-07-22 14:13:45

The Duluth News Tribune from Minnesota. “Jon Hansen is ready to sell his Superior home and buy a bigger, nicer one. ‘I’m not going to sell myself short for what I think it’s worth,’ Hansen said of his home, which he’ll happily live in indefinitely until he receives a decent offer, he said

Hum THAT BS Bravado to the tune of “THE WRECK OF THE EDMUND FITZGERALD” Jonboy.

A fuel oil dealer won’t even visit to top off your heating tank for LESS than a 200 Gallon purchase.

Get ready to sit, enjoy and shiver when the HAWK blows in off Lake Superior at minus 30 below this Winter

Got a lot of …WOOD ? :)

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-07-22 16:08:54

Both of those things are messy, are pleasant picnic activities, are enhanced by butter, and in both cases those little pokey stabbing implements make for a better grip.

Hmm….this may well be the first time I’ve seen “porn” and “picnic” together in the same sentence. Clearly, Olympiagal, you and I have been going to very different sorts of picnics. Mine generally involve a blanket, simple food, ants, wholesomeness in a shady [as in, leafy] park…and yours? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Comment by lurknomore
2008-07-22 15:02:41

Dick Gaylord is from Long Beach

 
 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2008-07-22 10:52:36

“Warren and Linda Wilson will put their home that sits at 52nd and Dodge streets up for auction at 6 p.m. Thursday. There is no minimum bid, but the Wilsons will set a price on the day of the auction and if that price isn’t met, there will be no sale.”
How can a reporter even string those words together? It makes no sense. The price set on the day of the sale is the “minimum bid” or am I missing something? Maybe the realtor wrote the story and the paper just printed it verbatim.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-22 10:55:06

Well, let’s give them some time. Nebraska is a little late to the party. But hey, they’ve got the arrogant seller thing down pat.

 
Comment by incredulous
2008-07-22 11:36:11

OMG! Attention all HBB’ers, we must all rush to Columbus Ohio and buy up their POS condos, the developers is losing money everyday! ROTFLMAO.

‘They’re giving away condos in Downtown Columbus. They’re just sitting there, empty, and every day it sits there, it costs the developer money.’

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-07-22 15:27:29

But…but…we HAVE to rush down there now. Didn’t you hear the honest realtor man say there’s never been a better time to buy? He’s got Suzanne’s research to prove it, you know.

 
 
Comment by Eggman
2008-07-22 15:00:03

Indeed. What that means is that you can bid whatever you like, but if you don’t hit the reserve (which might not be disclosed), then the house doesn’t sell. It’s basically a waste of everyone’s time. The idea is to get some artificially low bids started and then have people bidding against each other up to and over the reserve, because once people start bidding they just can’t help themselves.

Very likely the ‘bidding war’ will stop short of the reserve and perhaps these schmucks will catch a clue.

 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-07-22 10:57:01

wonder if you escrow on a condo w a clause for building occupancy of say 85%
if it’s less than that the condo fees will kill you

 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-07-22 10:58:23

Looks like a great time to buy or rent in the Midwest, with both dirt cheap. Bad time to get a job, however.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-07-22 13:06:13

Funny how that works, isn’t it?

Just when prices/rent start to decline hardly anyone has any dough. That’s why this thing is going to overshoot - even in the Midwest - which as a region insists it is not overpriced. With mfg. on the ropes how long before the F.I.R.E. jobs here implode?

Ok Combo - how ’bout a “cash is king” line here:

Comment by combotechie
2008-07-22 14:03:26

No need, you said it for me.

Important point you made: “Just when prices/rents start to decline hardly anyone has any dough.”

This may be the case regarding stocks if/when mutual fund investors panic, due to declining stock prices, and want their cash.

Mutual funds will need to raise cash to fund their redemptions and the only way for them to get cash is for them to sell stocks. Selling into a falling market drops prices furthur which begats more selling which drops prices furthur, etc.

Those who have cash and patience will definitely rule on that day.

 
Comment by jetson_boy
2008-07-22 14:47:13

The Midwest and Upper northern areas like MI are screwed. One look at the city_data.com relocation site shows that the vast majority of the posts are from people in MI, OH, WI, and a few others. Following in second is FL, NJ, MA, and CA. The first group of states has scads of people moving either down south or out west due to economic woes. The second grouping are full of people sick of the high prices and taxes. I’d imagine that there is going to be several sections of the country that will get hollowed out eventually.

Comment by Brian in Chicago
2008-07-22 15:59:49

They are most definitely not screwed. As the rest of the country fights over water, the upper midwest will flex its agricultural muscles and feed the nation.

Such an endeavor does not require a lot of suburban dwellers with fluff jobs. So let them go waste the resources of some other region of the country.

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Comment by CincyDad
2008-07-23 05:30:02

Exactly…

While you lament the current poor economic situation in the state, remember that it has more than enough coal under its eastern half, more than enough oil under its northern half, more than enough food, more than enough water, and a great deal of timber. As far as commodity/energy self sufficiency, Ohio probably ranks at or near the top.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Frank Hague
2008-07-22 10:58:39

“There are a lot of rental units on the market, but renting doesn’t build equity.”

I’ve really grown to hate the word equity. How can you build “equity” in a depreciating asset? The same assumptions about pricing going up “in the long run” are still being made.

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-22 11:07:41

Frank Hague,

I can’t believe one of us hadn’t mentioned that earlier? I’m at a point where it’s mere mention makes me queasy. Especially when it’s like “Equity Investment Realty” or some such nonsense. If we were being truthful it’s use should prohibited from REIC sales jargon.

How about:

Debt Load Realty

Leverage OTA Realty

?

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-07-22 11:20:23

I’m continually amazed at the persistence of this nonsense. I’ve noticed that the NAR is currently running radio spots saying that “historically the price of your home will double in 10 years”. I have no idea what they are basing it on. These myths have become so ingrained in the popular consciousness that the NAR, even now, has no compunction about running an ad like this.

Comment by wmbz
2008-07-22 11:37:57

“NAR is currently running radio spots saying that “historically the price of your home will double in 10 years”

Yep, they are running them here in S.C. on what seems to be a closed loop, over and over.

The S must be hitting the fan here in Columbia, S.C. Our whack job of a Mayor Bob Coble was just on the radio (2:30pm) stating that if you are in danger of losing your home to foreclosure ‘we’ have a program that can help you keep your house.

That’s it we have arrived… finally!!

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Comment by Frank Hague
2008-07-22 11:49:56

What kills me is that this type of garbage is what passes for compassion. Really helping most of the people who are being foreclosed on would be assisting them through the foreclosure process and helping them find affordable rentals. Even with a loan re-negotiation many these borrowers simply can’t afford their houses.

 
Comment by wolfgirl
2008-07-22 11:59:45

Don’t know the stations in Greenville, SC are running that kind of ad. I change stations when an announcer starts talking. Most of the ones here are stupid.

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-07-22 12:10:18

“Even with a loan re-negotiation many these borrowers simply can’t afford their houses”.

Exactly!
That point needs to be over and over to these dim-wits. Re-negotiation will not help those who are upside down in a house they couldn’t afford in the first place. Many would rather walk anyway. These damn ‘programs’ just gum up the works and drag the inevitable out.

 
Comment by aqius
2008-07-22 13:06:11

the only time I listen to commercial radio ads ……. err, I mean FM radio, is early in the morning for Adam Corolla. even then sometime the commercials are horribly long.

have enjoyed XM Sat radio for over 2 years now. love it. LOVE IT!!/ of course some of the stations are getting some ads creeping in but its still much better by far than insidious airwave radio.

also, one more topic; any auction that has a hidden reserve or an outrageous min bid starting price is not a true auction but merely a fishing expedition. (wow, I used the word ” merely” to downplay a risk. I feel like a lawyer)
waste of time in this type of auction for bidders as the sellers can cherry pick the offers. total BS. in fact, the REDC auction at Cal Expo a few weeks ago had every 4th property sold returning to the bidding list after 15 mins. made me wonder if the sellers were in real-time contact to approve/deny the offers or if buyers backed out at the settlement table.

for whatever reason, after 3 hrs I just left before the last section as the bidding list seemed to be going backwards after awhile. 7 props sold, 3 returned for rebid… etc etc. after property 33-B came back for the FOURTH re-bid I started laughing my arse off in the back area. and at that rate I calculated the auction would end at midnight if lucky.

(maybe a few typos, I dont care. sue me)

 
 
Comment by JonJon
2008-07-22 14:05:30

In Los Angeles the NAR runs those “on average houses double in price every 10 years”. Bald faced lie! It makes me want to scream. There are NO statistics anywhere to support such an outrageous claim. Simple extrapolation would indicate you house will appprciate 32 fold every 50 years, and 1000 fold every 100 years! Can you image your $500K house being worth “on average” $16 Million in 2058, and $500 million in 2108! And oh my God, in 2208, that house will cost… $500 BILLION DOLLARS! The claim is absurd in the extreme, and yet no one has sued them to my knowledge for false advertising. Every legitimate long term study I have read says houses double in value at best every 25 years, and if you factor in interest/taxes/upkeep PLUS inflation, houses on average are a terrible investment. How’s this for a truthful ad: “On average, buying a house as an investment is a terrible idea. Oh, and right now, it is absolutely suicide! But please buy it anyway so we can make our 6% commission. And just because we do virtually nothing useful to earn that commission, you will have to pay it anyway. And by the way, I do not have your best interests in mind when I represent you. I’m just trying to earn my commission. If I have to screw you over in the process (and you can bet I will!), well tough luck for you!” Yes, now that would be a truthful ad.

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Comment by jetson_boy
2008-07-22 14:53:48

The start of the ad is even worse, with the Real Estate woman in a pant suit walking briskly, talking in a hurried manner:

” Now is a great time to buy a home. If you’re sitting on the fence, then here’s some facts that you should know”

The ONLY reason you would have something like this in an ad is to make an attempt to scare people into buying, which I realize is exactly what the NAR is all about. But this commercial is almost shameless.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-22 13:36:09

test

 
 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-07-22 11:18:23

How can you build “equity” in a depreciating asset?

By paying it off faster than it depreciates! But of course, that’s not happening right now with housing, not even close.

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-22 11:57:01

NoVa Sideliner,

Excellent point and hadn’t by any means dismissed that but as you’ve implied, it’s such a rare instance it hardly merits discussion. I can’t get it out of my head as to how impactful that will be to those near retirement?

They’re “tapering back” from work ( a combo of one or both spouses ) limiting their income and certainly the ‘growth’ of their income as well as inadequate savings etc. Believe me I’d watched people on margin in 2000-2001 attempt to fill that black hole. Outside of a life of crime how will these folks confront that?

Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-07-22 12:13:47

You’re right, it will be direly impacting people’s retirements. And outside of a life of crime, they can tackle this problem via… hmmm… bankruptcy and a fresh and very late start if they are way in the hole, or just near-poverty if they do hang on and end up with no savings but “equity” in a place that’s cost them so dearly on all other counts. My, oh my, not a pretty sight.

I have a friend like that who is in a condo now and actually uses the phrase “It’s all about the equity”. So 2005!!!

He saves nothing as he struggles with the (adjustable) payment. In the end, assuming he doesn’t get skinned alive by condo fees as the place gets older, he will have a one-bedroom condo all paid for right about the time he retires at 65, and zero savings. I mean zero, no 401k, nothing in the bank at all. Nice equity, dude.

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Comment by DinOR
2008-07-22 12:36:13

“It’s all about the equity”

Well… oh—kay. I suppose I can go along with that but what about ‘liquidity’? Have things become so twisted these people actually think they will be able to borrow against said “equity” to fund their day to day expenses in the year 203_?

 
Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-07-22 12:55:26

That’s the thing. People expect that conditions today are what they will also be in future. Remember when it was dead easy to borrow against (phantom?!) equity in your house? Now people are shocked, shocked I say, when they find out that they can’t do it any more!

That might be the case in later years for my friend, though I suspect that there might also be reverse mortgage provisions that will also be in place that he can use. Here’s the problem, though: What if his complex deteriorates over the next decade? Then his reverse mortgage will be based on half or less of the equity he thought he had.

If his $300k place holds its value for 15 years, it will really only give him about $170k “borrowable” by most standards. Or $985 per month. (AARP has a reasonably good calculator for that.) If the neighbourhood goes down, he might be looking at half that. That’s still not peanuts, but he’d do a lot better putting his mortgage interest payments in other places, IMHO.

The kicker: He only lives in the place when he is between jobs! That means, it’s actually his “vacation home”, sitting idle for sometimes a year at a time. Still, he won’t sell it because he’s “building equity”. See the madness?

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2008-07-22 13:23:45

That is nuts!

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-07-22 13:32:06

NoVa,

In a strange way, I ‘can’ see it. This is the (1) thing in your friend’s life that IS permanent. So I don’t want to be too harsh on him. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t ill-advised but there is a part of me that can understand. Kind of like career guys in the Navy wanting that “hunting property” paid off by the time they retire?

I suppose the difference is that G.I’s openly admit it’s strictly a matter of preference, and not “about the equity”. As you walk us through the AARP calc. it becomes all too obvious this is DOA as any kind of ret. “plan”. My big objection centers around the TOTAL lack of any ‘other’ form of savings!

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-07-22 14:23:27

If a person pays off his house then he gets to enjoy the benifits of “imputed rent”.

If, say, 30% of his income went into house payments then he will have a 30% reduction in his cost of living as soon as his last payment is made. This 30% is after taxes, so it is conceivable he could have his income reduced by something like 40% - more even - and still not suffer any reduction in his standard of living. This issue can become quite important for a retired person.

Even though one may never even consider tapping his equity by borrowing against it, paying off one’s house makes sense in most cases due to imputed rent considerations.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-22 15:40:24

And that is how ownership in real estate was always sold in bygone days . This forced savings plan of paying down your home by retirement was a way of reducing your cost of living when you retired on amounts that were less than your current paycheck . Social Security was suppose to be a supplement ,and if you were prudent you had addition savings or pension plans or Company pension plans to supplement even more .

I saw a article once that stated words to the effect that in retirement you should be able to live on 30% less income than working years ,(doesn’t sound like they took medical costs into account in that analysis however ). But,anyway, you don’t have to drive as much when retired ,you don’t have to buy as many clothes for work when retired,you don’t have to keep up with the yuppie life style as much when retire,you don’t have children expenses as much when your retired ,( your suppose to have the kids fully functioning by the time you retire ) and on and on .

I guess my point is that the whole plan that was pushed by the experts of the time was that buying a house and paying down the principal balance was part of the retirement plan .
Using your house for leverage or using your house to enhance a lifestyle you really couldn’t afford during your working years was not the idea or reason for buying a house in the past .
No wonder real estate took on fake values when it was marketed as a pathway to easy money and something that was good for a flip and real estate always goes up .

When the cheerleaders and market makers started cheering for RE market values going up to the moon, this is the opposite of what they did in the old days . If market prices went up in the old days beyond inflation and wage increases, it was considered a bad thing .

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-22 15:07:10

The only reason i can think of that a person nearing the age of retirement would of bought a high priced home with nothing down is they thought it would skyrocket in value . People use to gain equity by paying down principal balance for years . If you got a hedge against inflation you were lucky during most of the business cycles that have occurred in the last 50 years .

In addition, regarding the way they use to appraise property in the more prudent lending cycles of the past .

The appraiser was suppose to inspect the property to report to the lender any areas in which the property was compromised that would affect the fair market value that was paid for the house ,for the protection of the lender/borrower . Items that were of concern were (1)health and safety violations (2) any compromise to the structure of the house (3) anything that made the house sub-standard to the comps (4) anything that was such a clearly needed repair ,(such as the need for a new roof ),that it compromised the value compared to the comps .
Value would be marked down accordingly .

During the boom ,I’m sure these sort of considerations of compromised values were not taken into account regarding appraisals when the “hit the mark” mentality was acceptable lending/appraisal practice . When you add to that the incentives and other concessions that were allowed that did not reflect a concession in value because of that, (or was even reported to the lender ) ,the lender was not protected at all and
certainly not the borrower .

I remember one time a Lender requiring that a new foundation be put on a house before they were willing to make the loan amount requested ,(can you believe the buyer and seller did it ) It was not uncommon for banks to require water checks and geological reports on properties before they would lend on them .
In the old days of lending the Lenders were well aware that the property was their security for their loan being paid back ,so the value had to be solid and any compromise or risk to that value had to be carefully weighted in the appraisal process .

While it became illegal to red-line properties ,it was still legal to
deny a loan for health and safety violations or anything that compromised the property values ,other than just outright discrimination against a area .Also, people still had to qualify .I don’t believe this nonsense that the government forced lenders to make bad loans to sub-prime borrowers who didn’t really qualify for the guidelines of the loan .It was a issue of lenders thinking they could pass the junk uphill and RE going up would cover the the lack of underwriting .

As far as I’m concerned the old type logic of lending made sense because in those days if a bank had failures ,it was their risk, and nobody was going to bail them out . Under the conditions of old school lending ,a long standing secondary market was created and grew based on sound lending and appraisal
principals that were a check and balance to any market force mistake that might of come along .

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Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-07-22 11:16:16

‘the buyer had two jobs, and needed the second income to afford the home.’ She lost the second job-and the deal.

A friend of mine actually used a situation like this to his advantage.

Stuck with a contract on a new, almost-finished house that he realised was too far from work and too hard to afford, when his wife’s nursing contract ended, he called the mortgage firm and told them they didn’t have her income anymore. “Am I supposed to tell you that?” Of course, says the mortgage company, which happily and promptly cancelled his financing.

And thus with no financing, he couldn’t afford the house! The builder wa s frikkin’ LIVID! “But what else was I supposed to do? The contract said I had to keep the bank apprised of any material changes in my finances…”

I wonder how much the unlucky builder had to eat on that one.

Comment by Kim
2008-07-22 11:48:03

I suspect a lot of folks are doing similar things these days.

Unfortunately what then happens is that the seller thinks that after having found one knifecatcher at that price point, there’s bound to be another. So they hold on to that price, and the place sits… and sits… and sits…

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-07-22 12:03:54

there was another thread similar to this scenario. Someone couldn’t qualify (actually the appraisal came in too low) so the seller offered a 2nd loan to cover the difference, and the buyer couldn’t back out, since ‘financing’ was established.

In your friend’s case, the builder might have tried something similar. The bank loans some reduced amount due to wife’s unemployment, and builder puts up the 2nd.. and the sale is locked up.

Comment by NoVa Sideliner
2008-07-22 12:35:59

That might have worked, had the builder been actually able to come up with the money to lend.

Thing is, my friend’s wife was making about half the household income — maybe more than half, come to think of it. (Hence why he was worried about buying such a pricey house; they’d need BOTH incomes forever to stay in the place.) That would have made for a massive second mortgage issued by the builder — one that the builder would probably never be able to pawn off on an investor, not these days for sure.

This was in Frisco, Texas, by the way. The friend works near DFW. Ugh! I cannot imagine why they thought that cookie-cutter house was so special that they’d even contemplate that drive.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-07-22 13:25:07

yeah.. a builder may not have the money nor have the wherewithal to realize a 2nd note is even an option.

We’re all picking up tricks of the trade, so far mostly limited to how FBs, willingly or not, get out of a deal or contract. Someday we’ll be hearing tricks on how to take advantage when purchasing… how to lock in the seller so he can’t escape.

whenever i get around to buying something, the offer is going to have plenty of contingencies that’ll allow my backing out.. that’s one place a good RE attorney might earn his keep.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-07-22 13:12:39

“I wonder how much the unlucky builder had to eat on that one.”

And I wonder how many didn’t make that call at all and thought they could limp it out on a diminished income - because it was a no lose proposition.

They probably outnumber him 500 to 1.

 
 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-07-22 11:36:39

“Jon Hansen is ready to sell his Superior home and buy a bigger, nicer one. ‘I’m not going to sell myself short for what I think it’s worth,’ Hansen said of his home, which he’ll happily live in indefinitely until he receives a decent offer, he said.”

But Jon, you already have a Superior home.
Why would you want to move? Oh, that’s right,
you will stay put indefinitely, until you get your wishing price. So this is about getting big $$$ for your house. Forget it, chump. After Massive Unemployment and Crashing Comps hang out in your neck of the woods for the next 4 years, you can just GIVE it away and move to Misery.

 
Comment by ylekiot1
2008-07-22 11:43:54

“The Wilsons said that for them, it is not about the carrying costs. Their home is paid for. But they like the auction idea because it will give them the answer they’re looking for.”

“‘It gives us a certain amount of certainty, because we have our plans,’ said Linda Wilson ‘We’ll either have a house in Omaha or we won’t, depending on what happens July 24.’

Linda, you have two houses.

They have a house they bought already in Penn. So if they don’t sell the first house how does that “give them a certain amount of certainty?” LOL

Ben, these reporters all need to be taken out and given a JT interview. Do they even ask ANY questions? Geez.

 
Comment by hoz
2008-07-22 11:58:58

“‘We’ve got lots and lots of tire kickers, and no one’s pulling the trigger,’ said Jeffrey L. Vollman, a Realtor with Edmunds Co. of Duluth.”

Having been to Duluth and noticed lots of tires in the yards, I think this is meant literally. lol

 
Comment by MEaston
 
Comment by GH
2008-07-22 12:37:08

“Banking and real estate experts say it could take at least a year to resolve the financial mess, and maybe even longer for lenders to resell property in a troubled real estate market.”

This is like saying the average car on the freeway is moving at least 4 miles an hour. Absolutely true and absolute nonesense. With ALT-A problems still looming large on the horizon, I give it 7 - 10 years, maybe even longer.

 
Comment by Mike - Denmark
2008-07-22 13:19:18

If the usa/World is run by the “cleverist” and best educated people, and the result is….THIS…..
Then ..maybe it is TIME to Send OUT the clowns.

But they also want to come with the solution/salvation….

Could the French revolution, happen in USA….
it followed a collapse of the economy, with not even bread enough for the masses, but enough for the horses( read Hummers)
Good luck over there
Mike

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-22 13:35:54

Mike - Denmark,

Thanks for sharing. Remember, this is the very crowd that’s been critical of this course since like 2003? Have good hashish there do they? Great. Stay in touch will ya?

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-07-22 14:38:12

Doesn’t Denmark still have that antiquated king and queen / monarchy stuff? And didn’t the French revolutionaries overthrow a monarchy?

 
 
Comment by aqius
2008-07-22 14:44:31

Ahh dinOR

you muckraker! keeping the guvment up all hours from you & yer ilk.
laws yes, M-O-O-N spells “Bailbondsmen”.

verily, I shall remember to paint the Sign of The Joshua Tree on my doorpost in squirrels blood when the housing lynch mob passes in the night.

 
Comment by julia
2008-07-22 15:26:20

RENT RENT RENT!!! at least in Manhattan, NYC where I live. Prices will have to go all the way down to where they were on 1998 for me to be tempted. The gov is trying to do all it can to pop up home prices, so sadly enough, the decline will take much longer. Why would a first time buyer like me catch a falling knife? At the very least, they should offer a 30 year tax abatement to first time buyers to compensate for the gov led home price inflation.

I understand that the gov cannot let prices go down, as it represents retirement $ for many old folks. My view: rent and keep the savings for your own retirement instead of getting into debt to pay for somebody else retirement.

 
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