We Won’t Be Seeing Prices Like This In The Future
The San Francisco Chronicle reports from California. “Foreclosures across the state surged to a 20-year high during the last three months, as tens of thousands of additional Californians lost their homes and more than 100,000 neared the brink. Notices of default rose nearly 125 percent from a year ago during the second quarter and trustee deeds recorded, which reflect the actual homes taken back, soared more than 260 percent, according to DataQuick.”
“The number of defaults and foreclosures were the highest in DataQuick’s statistics, which go back to 1992 and 1988, respectively. Among homeowners who fall into default, an estimated 22 percent now emerge from the foreclosure process by catching up on their payments, refinancing or selling. That’s down from 52 percent a year ago.”
“In the Bay Area, mortgage servicers recorded 18,516 notices of default, up more than 140 percent from a year ago, DataQuick said. The largest increase was in Santa Clara County, where defaults rose 194.2 percent to 3,751. The smallest gain was in San Francisco, 62.6 percent to 418.”
The Ventura County Star. “In Ventura County, there were 2,303 notices of default filed for homes and condos from April to June, up 117.5 percent from 1,059 notices filed during the same period a year ago.”
“Default notices edged up 6.6 percent from 53,943 during the first quarter, and a more substantial 124.9 percent from 53,943 during the second quarter of 2007.”
“‘The small increase in defaults from the first to the second quarter may indicate that we’re nearing a plateau,’ said John Walsh, DataQuick president, in a statement. ‘We won’t know until the end of the year, but it may be that some lenders are starting to prioritize workouts with homeowners instead of grinding through the foreclosure process.’”
“Or, lenders simply might be swamped and can’t handle processing any more paperwork, he said.”
“”Most of the loans that went into default last quarter were originated from September 2005 through November 2006, according to DataQuick. On primary mortgages, California homeowners were a median five months behind on their payments when the lenders filed the notice of default.”
The Union Tribune. “Distressed mortgages continued to put a drag on the troubled economy in June as 1,838 homes in San Diego County went into foreclosure, an 18 percent increase over the previous month and a 180 percent increase over June 2007, DataQuick reported Tuesday.”
“June marked the 39th consecutive month of year-over-year increases for both foreclosures and notices of default.”
“Kelly Cunningham, economist with the San Diego Institute for Policy Research, said the market eventually will correct itself. There is a shortage of homes in San Diego County that should bring buyers back to the market sometime next year.”
“‘There is a lot of pent-up demand still and there are some bargains to be made as investors jump into the market. We won’t be seeing prices like this in the future,’ he said.”
The Modesto Bee. “First-time home buyers will be able to purchase foreclosed houses in Stanislaus, San Joaquin and Merced counties at discount prices and with reduced-rate loans, thanks to a state loan program launched Monday.”
“Gov. Schwarzenegger said the $200 million program will ‘pump up’ the region’s economy, which has been reeling from escalating foreclosures and declining home values.”
“Some of those homes have been deeply discounted. A four-bedroom house built three years ago at 424 Fusco Ave. in Modesto originally sold for about $490,000, and it’s been listed for $270,000 since being foreclosed. First-time home buyers now can purchase the 2,888-square-foot house for $237,600.”
“‘This actually is a really nice house,’ said Chad Costa, a broker who specializes in foreclosed property. Costa said he was surprised that Wells Fargo Bank, which owns the home, had reduced it so much.”
“A property Costa is trying to sell for CitiMortgage is at 243 Angora St. in Patterson. Its previous owners borrowed more than $493,000 on the home in the spring of 2005, then lost it to foreclosure. The 3,312-square-foot house had been priced at $229,900, but now it’s listed at $198,000 for participants.”
“Costa questioned the fairness of reducing home prices so drastically for first-time buyers rather than for everybody.”
The Recordnet. “The housing downturn, now permanently embossed with a ‘foreclosure’ icon, is offering many the chance to buy when only a few years ago soaring prices had put owning a home well out of reach. For many, buying a home still seems out of reach these days, although for different reasons.”
“The median selling price countywide has declined from a peak of $425,000 in July 2006 to $220,000 last month - a 48 percent drop over two years and the lowest monthly selling price level since April 2002, according to figures from the latest Coldwell Banker Grupe-TrendGraphix monthly sales report.”
“Mian Quddus, a Santa Clara man who took a foreclosure bus tour in Stockton this past spring, had been eyeing houses in hopes of finding a good deal as an investment and, later, a retirement home. He found a couple of properties he liked but decided not even to make offers, because he heard there were already a lot of people lined up wanting to buy.”
“‘So it didn’t feel right going for it,’ he said. ‘I really didn’t want to get into a bidding war.’”
“Jerry Abbott, president and co-owner of Coldwell Banker Grupe, Stockton, has been scouring the area for a good foreclosure house on behalf of his son and daughter-in-law. He’s looking in the $300,000 to $320,000 price range and offering $350,000 minus $9,000 closing costs.”
“‘I’m just writing offer after offer for them, and we can’t get anything,’ he said. ‘There are a lot of people looking to buy in that price range, because those homes sold for up to $700,000 only a few years ago.’”
The Sacramento Bee. “A signature Sacramento program that has helped almost 300,000 lower-income people nationally buy homes in the past decade - while stirring controversy for years - is likely to be shut down this week, Nehemiah Corp. of America officials acknowledged Monday.”
“The nonprofit giant believes Congress and President Bush will ban its decade-old down-payment assistance ‘gift’ program within days as part of a larger housing bill, Nehemiah CEO Scott Syphax said Monday.”
“‘Without programs such as this, it will put the American dream of homeownership in jeopardy for a lot of first-time lower-income homebuyers,’ said John Frith, spokesman for the California Building Industry Association.”
“Others say ending the program will harm prospects for a recovery in the housing market. ‘It takes a major player out of our market,’ said Jon Kaempfer, senior loan consultant at Sacramento-based Vitek Mortgage.”
“Critics say it unfairly inflates the values of homes for those who can least afford it. ‘Originally, they (gifts) went to builders, and builders would jack up their sales prices,’ Kaempfer said. ‘That’s what really ticked the FHA off.’”
The North County Times. “Wachovia closed its wholesale mortgage department Monday and announced Tuesday that it planned to reduce lending and securities products by $20 billion this year.”
“With the failure of subprime lenders about a year ago, borrowers going to local mortgage brokers are finding fewer options and even fewer loans they can qualify for as banks tighten lending requirements, mortgage brokers said.”
“‘We’re getting hit from all angles,’ said Yamila Ayad, president of Mission Home Loans in San Marcos. ‘Last August, when a lot of subprime lenders were closing, I was not shocked. But it becomes very concerning when your prime banks start closing.’”
“‘We’re overrun with people who want to buy. The challenge is getting them qualified,’ said Matt Battiata, a real estate broker based in Carlsbad. ‘The effect on the market is as if the Fed jacked up interest rates.’”
The Voice of San Diego. “City Heights is struggling under the continuing housing market collapse. The 92105 ZIP code recently ranked 14th among nearly 100 county ZIP codes for foreclosures per 1,000 homes.”
‘The price per square foot paid for detached homes in the ZIP has fallen by nearly 50 percent since summer 2006, according to DataQuick. In several months of boom years like 2006, buyers paid more than $400 per square foot for detached homes. In May, 17 houses sold for a median of $220 per square foot.”
“Repossessed homes have brought values down but currently comprise the lion’s share of what sells in this market, area real estate agent Marigold Hernly said.”
“Hernly’s tour from street to street, from block to block, revealed some of those issues community residents and nonprofits are worried about. Some foreclosed properties had chain-link fences, peeling paint. Overgrown and dead lawns were other signs of distress.”
“But then, Hernly turned the corner and pulled over in her minivan on a street edging one of the community’s canyons. ‘You have to have a vision. These are million-dollar views,’ she said.”
The San Gabriel Valley Tribune. “West Covina’s downtown continues to evolve as it grapples with security concerns and a slowing economy that has forced out several tenants. Several of the businesses at The Lakes Entertainment Center are now closed, including the flagship restaurant Macaroni Grill.”
“Councilman Roger Hernandez thinks the council has fallen short in its plans to deliver a revitalized downtown to West Covina residents. ‘When the businesses came, they all came with the promise that the whole area was going to be redeveloped,’ Hernandez said, ‘and that we were going to create a critical mass of housing and businesses.’”
The Glendale News Press. “The number of building permits issued by city officials has reached its lowest point in nearly 10 months, a byproduct of an economy hit by slumping housing prices, the high cost of gasoline and ongoing problems in the financial sector, officials said Monday.”
“So far in July, Glendale’s Permits & Inspections department issued 144 housing and business permits. A steep drop from May and June this year, when the city handed out 211 permits both months, and authorized 232 in April, said Juan Diaz, customer service representative.”
“A recent report by the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. found that the new home building in Southern California ‘will continue its current descent in 2008, reflecting oversupply of existing units and difficulty in financing for builders and home buyers,’ chief economist Jack Kyser said.”
“‘If you are a home builder, you have run the gauntlet of trying to get construction financing,’ Kyser said. ‘Lenders are very cautious and very risk-averse. People are studying the market very, very carefully. They don’t want to go out on a limb. All over Southern California, you are hearing a pullback.’”
“In 2007, officials issued more than 200 permits in every month except September. That month the city authorized 109 permits, during a period that Diaz called an anomaly.”
“‘Last year we were busy with the Americana,’ he said. ‘There were lots of permits issued and lots of money being spent.’”
“With its luxury apartments just 25% filled and some stores reporting stagnant sales, the Americana at Brand may be experiencing the same woes other businesses in the region are currently undergoing in a distressed economy.”
“Officials hoped the $435 million complex would bring hundreds of thousands of new shoppers and residents to Glendale as well as flood the city’s treasury with tax revenue.”
“It is still a dubious time to run a business, said Judee Kendall, executive VP of Glendale’s Chamber of Commerce. ‘Other than the Americana, I’m not seeing a lot of businesses open up right now, and I am seeing and hearing from existing business that it’s slow,’ she said. ‘Its not particularly one type of business. It’s just generally slow.’”
“Still, city and mall officials said the mixed-use development has been a boon for the city.”
“‘It’s hard to quantify especially with the economic downturn,’ said Assistant Director of Finance Ron Ahlers.”
“‘We have expectations that the Americana will be positive and generate a few hundred grand in sales tax revenue this year, but that’s awful hard to equate in an economic downturn. It’s still a positive for the city, it’s just that we have no data to back it up,’ Ahern said.”
I just got a listing from Orinda where there is a massive short sale - house originally sold for $2.5 million in ‘05 is now being sold for only $1.3 million. Still way too much for my blood, but a start!! I still have yet to see houses in my neck of the woods be “significantly” reduced!! My husband says they probably will not go down much more, I say he’s full of it! These people in Danville, Alamo and Walnut Creek are HELOC mavens and are in debt up the their a$$es!! I give it another 1 or 2 years. I know the guy we rent from is HELOC’d out on our place to the tune of $400k. Scares us, but what can we do??
That’s pretty wild… I guess it really is “different”!
My wife and I will be happy renters in Lafayette for the next year watching prices collapse. Any chance you could provide a link to this short sale? Thanks!
You can record a request for a copy of notice of default under California Civil Code 2924B with the county recorder (do a Google search and you can find forms online for free). There is usually a nominal fee for the recorder’s office. If you record the form, then the recorder will mail you a copy of any notice of default or notice of sale under a trustee’s deed that is recorded against the property. This will at least give you some prior notice in case he defaults (i.e., you won’t have to wait for the sheriff to post a notice to find out that the bank has repossessed the house).
How about squatting for a year witout paying rent? f he is not paying the mortage and it takes about a year to dforeclose….
I see a window of opportunity for tenants. He wont take you to court since the court will make you to pay rent to the court and the court will pay the bank. So he has nothing to gain by evicting you…
———-
Scares us, but what can we do??
more like 60 days, I am a renter going through this. Good news is I got 2 mo’s free rent and $2000 to move out and not trash the place
I agree with you. The areas that we’re interested are coming down in price very slowly. We’re looking for just a established upper middle class neighborhood (priced currently between 500-700k). There are a couple neighborhoods in Granite Bay and Folsom that we really like. One house I’ve been watching for 5 months has cut it’s price by about $90,000 since they put it on the market. I’m waiting for the prices to get around $500,000 before we get the real estate agent. And even then I don’t want to pay more than $450,000.
I think those areas are a bit slower because they are more affluent. But when I check trulia.com, I’ve been noticing a lot of homes coming up as some stage of foreclosure in Granite Bay with a million dollars or more owed on them. I think the more million dollar homes that foreclose the more downward price pressure that’ll put on the upper middle class homes I have my eye on.
Bummer about your landlord. That would suck to have to move before you’re ready to buy.
EBR:
You have got to educate that man! I can’t believe your own husband is an anti-HBBer. Where’s the faith?
‘Among homeowners who fall into default, an estimated 22 percent now emerge from the foreclosure process by catching up on their payments, refinancing or selling. That’s down from 52 percent a year ago.’
This was the trend that started the really sharp slide in CA. This is the biggest stat of the summer, IMO.
Sorry to seem dense, but what happens to the other 100 - 22 = 78 percent who don’t emerge from the foreclosure process? Do they somehow “submerge”?
They lose their homes. Only 22 percent of people who get behind on their mortgage are ‘catching up’ by selling stuff or through loan workouts.
78% of NODs become trustee sales.
Let’s repeat that now.
78% of NODs become trustee sales.
The other 22% are made up of people who missed a month on accident or because of unforseen expenses and had to squeeze a month, or people with enough equity to sell, or managed a short sell.
That number is huge, and should be scaring the crap out of every bank in the nation. I doubt the NOD to foreclosure rate has EVER been 78% before except in extremely local pockets (company towns where the company shut down.)
What is truly amazing is that the 78% figure is for the entire state of California. There are places where the percentage is much lower. Which means that there must be places where the percentage is also much higher. Truly scary.
Yup. I could see individual towns drying up and blowing away. Heck, I grew up in a town that was crippled by the shutdown of mining concerns in the area. But to see an entire state throw up numbers like that means that it’s a problem endemic to the entire system, not a local aberration. The entire system needs to correct, and that will hammer everybody everywhere.
Not an aberration in Mendota, where unemployment is more than 50 (fifty) percent. Think withering melons, cotton croaking from the drought. And yes, people the INS, Border Patrol and Arnold don’t mess with. No commerce=no town. Maybe California will build more prisons there. Sad, because there are longstanding families in the flyover hamlet west of Fresno.
should make good thesis material on depreciating assets.
“…should make good thesis material on depreciating assets.”
Any academic who pulls their head out of their @$$ to look at what is happening in the real world of real estate finance at the moment could easily make a lifelong career writing about the current episode. The apple is there to be picked…
Where are ghosts of the Joads?
so why don’t you pick it?
CA broke the record for % of defaults last summer. Consider this quote from yesterdays CA post:
‘We are seeing that the problem loans have spilled beyond subprime, beyond home equity (lines of credit) and into prime,’ said Thomas Kelly, spokesman for (JP Morgan). ‘Some people could afford it (the house), but chose not to, and the biggest impact is falling home prices.’
Californians are walking away from their houses by the tens of thousands every month.
5th inning. Alt-A is going strong, but most Alt-Aers think they can recover. Next up: The Alt-Aers will capitulate, and the Primers will be “sitting it out”.
Yep, IMHO I also believe that this % of properties actually going to foreclosure is mind-blowing . It shows that work-outs aren’t working and people are walking . IMO it also shows that when prices fell ,there was no reason for short term investors gamblers to stay in the game .
This stat on foreclosures that Ben posted is extremely alarming and I think the politicians need to start talking about why the walk-a-ways in droves . Could it be that the American dream of home-ownership was a Ponzi-scheme and the benefit of taking away forgiven debt tax penalty paved the way just to make it easier to walk for the gamblers ?he public keeps letting these bought off politicians that are currently in power pave the way to our destruction .
“On primary mortgages, California homeowners were a median five months behind on their payments when the lenders filed the notice of default.”
By month five, I’d think most people start facing the inevitable…
By month five, I’d think most people start facing the inevitable…
By month five, they have first, last, and the security deposit saved up too!
Got Popcorn?
Neil
And they still have a few more months before the place is actually foreclosed, plus additional time for the eviction. And, now some lenders are giving cash for keys (i.e., banks pay if they vacate by certain date and don’t damage the property), so they could add that money to their pocket, too.
“‘Without programs such as this, it will put the American dream of homeownership in jeopardy for a lot of first-time lower-income homebuyers,’ said John Frith, spokesman for the California Building Industry Association.”
No more low-income people being shoehorned into houses they can’t afford and middle-class neighborhoods where they don’t belong, courtesy of flim-flam gov’t programs? Forgive my misty eyes.
Sammy,
Here’s my handkerchief, let me dab your misty eyes. I’m starting to choke up a little myself. :’(
Thank you, sweetheart. Be strong. Together, we can get through this.
I am sorry sammy, but your classism is a bit ugly. Unless you happen to be worth upwards of 30 million or so, the New World Order which hatched this plan intends on putting you on even footing with the “lower class”. Enjoy your serfdom everyone!
The Tri-Lateral Commission lives!
This is the sort of thinking that accompanies End Of The World talk.
Keep it coming and keep your finds liquid; Market bottoms are reached near the peak of this nonsense.
finds liquid = funds liquid
Was anybody under the impression that this is NOT the end of the world??
; )
Me. I’m pretty sure the sun will come up tomorrow. Reasonable house prices are not only a good thing, but inevitable and necessary.
As the doomsday scenerio progresses, look for:
1. The emergence of many pyramid schemes and MLM schemes guaranteed to make one rich.
2. The growing question as whether there there is actually any gold at all in Fort Knox.
3. A “Saviour” to appear to rescue us from a horrible fate thrust upon us from outsiders.
4. Religous cults to spring up everywhere.
As Annie likes to sing:
The sun will come out, tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow, therell be sun
Jus thinkin about, tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs and the sorrow
til theres none
When Im stuck with the day thats gray and lonely
I just stick out my chin and grin and say, ohhh
The sun will come out, tomorrow
So you gotta hang on til tomorrow
Come what may…
Chorus:
Tomorrow, tomorrow
I love ya, tomorrow
Youre always a day away
The sun will come out, tomorrow
So you gotta hang on til tomorrow
Come what may…
Tomorrow, tomorrow
I love ya, tomorrow
Youre always a day a–way!
People survive. We will survive. I am looking forward to house prices becoming reasonable. Maybe my niece and nephews will be able to afford their own house sometime in the future.
As the Grateful Dead put it so eloquently, between acid trips, in “Touch of Grey”:
“We will get by”
“We will survive.”
As Gloria Gaynor put it so eloquently:
First I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
without you by my side
But I spent so many nights
thinking how you did me wrong
I grew strong
I learned how to carry on
and so you’re back
from outer space
I just walked in to find you here
with that sad look upon your face
I should have changed my stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
you’d be back to bother me
Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
’cause you’re not welcome anymore
weren’t you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I’d crumble
you think I’d lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
as long as i know how to love
I know I will stay alive
I’ve got all my life to live
I’ve got all my love to give
and I’ll survive
I will survive
It took all the strength I had
not to fall apart
kept trying hard to mend
the pieces of my broken heart
and I spent oh so many nights
just feeling sorry for myself
I used to cry
Now I hold my head up high
and you see me
somebody new
I’m not that chained up little person
still in love with you
and so you felt like dropping in
and just expect me to be free
now I’m saving all my loving
for someone who’s loving me
I am sorry sammy, but your classism is a bit ugly.
I make no apology for my “classism.” I prefer to live around people who have class and with whom I share similar values. I would prefer that my neighbors be decent, middle-class people who have the income to buy and live comfortably in their own homes, and who take pride in their homes, neighborhoods, and communities. Being from working-class origins, I have nothing against working-class people as neighbors, provided they make good neighbors. However, most “low-income” people of the sort that require assistance from government social programs, tend not to be the kind of independent, self-sufficient people that make pleasant and responsible neighbors.
I’d make exceptions on an individual basis, of course - low income doesn’t automatically mean low class, but in my experience there’s a pretty high correlation. I think if the government would butt out of the housing business, and all kinds of other business it’s stuck it’s intrusive snout into, we’d all be better off. People should naturally seek out and find their own level, whether its in Rancho Palos Verdes or skid row, without gov’t involving itself in such personal, individual decisions.
“I prefer to live around people who have class and with whom I share similar values, such as wife beating.”
-SS Freude
Big V,
Where do you get off on making up ignorant, slanderous quotes attributed (falsely) to fellow posters that you’ve never even met? I’ve never said or done anything, ever, that would give you any basis for making such a stupid comment. I never have and never would raise my hand against any woman, even one as obnoxious as you, nor have I ever, in any way, shape or form, condoned abuse or violence against women. While expecting an apology from someone as classless as yourself would be pointless, I would hope that readers who are familiar with my postings in here will be fair-minded enough to see this smear of yours for what it is.
Sammy
V,
I hope you get what you wish for.
Where is my confederate flag?
hey SS Freude and Dutch Traitor:
I’m not the first to call SS a wife beater. He’s one of the many homo boys who has posted about how women are a waste of time/money. His famous quote is “Have you ever noticed how most women don’t actually like nice guys?”, this all stemming from a choice argument spearheaded by one of the other losers. Hell, I can’t even remember the other guy’s name now, or what his horrid joke was. I guess he stopped posting.
Argh, my reply didn’t come through. Oh well, I wish I could remember what that really mean joke was that you were laughing at, Sammy. You’re such a jerk. You and all your friends, although I can’t remember all their names. A lot of them have numbers in their names, like hd74man.
Oh, it just came through. Here’s one of SS’s old girl-hating posts:
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2007-09-03 14:10:15
And as one of those strangers on the Internet, I just love paying the societial and fiscal costs for irresponsible women who bear children from unfit partners who won’t stick around to assume their parental responsibilities. Not judging, just stating a cold hard fact. There’s a damned good reason why most societies look down on unwed mothers and frown on divorce.
Big V,
Since you appear to be in the final stages of some sort of syphllis-induced dementia, I won’t try to bring any lucidity into your spewings. I’ve been posting in here a long time - since 2004 - and those who actually read what I post will recognize what a fabrication your alleged “quotes” and recollections are.
I’m not the first to call SS a wife beater.
Oh, so if enough people call me a wife-beater, that makes me one? I’d love to put you in the same room wih my wife and step back and let you tell her I’m a wife-beater and everything else you’ve accused me of. She’d listen to your ravings for about thirty seconds, then sort you out faster and better than I ever could. Without lifting a finger, in case you’re about to accuse her of being a woman-beater, too.
He’s one of the many homo boys who has posted about how women are a waste of time/money.
Oh, so now I’m gay, too? Please produce a single link to a single quote that I’ve ever made to the effect that “women are a waste of time and money.” Not from your STD-addled memory, but an actual quote of mine. Go ahead. Try to find one. Good luck.
His famous quote is “Have you ever noticed how most women don’t actually like nice guys?”
I never said any such thing, nor would I. What I said was, it seems like the guys who always spring forth to defend any alleged slight against women’s rights, no matter how trivial or specious, are never actually popular with women. As someone else in here pointed out, that observation originated with Joseph Conrad in THE SECRET AGENT. True gentlemen are a rarity in today’s society, and in my experience they are very much appreciated by women. My father was one.
Oh well, I wish I could remember what that really mean joke was that you were laughing at, Sammy.
I have no idea what “mean joke” you’re blathering about, nor, apparently, do you. I remember somebody posting something about a guy clocking a woman for some reason, which I didn’t find funny in the least. Some people found it amusing: I wasn’t one of them. Since you clearly have your own reality, made-to-order, about what you read and process in here, once again: I challenge you to actually produce links that would show these alleged misdeeds of mine. My direct quotes, not your hallucenigenic recollections.
I’ll freely admit to being opinionated and not very politically correct. I won’t try to convince Big V of anything, since that’s a lost cause. But if any women in here take her allegations seriously, I would respectfully suggest that you ask some of the longtime female posters in here, like TxChick, if I’m guilty of any of the offenses Big V has accused me of. I think they will be more than happy to set the record straight. I’m also pretty sure Ben would have booted me out of here a long time ago if I made the kinds of remarks Big V has attributed - falsely - to me.
This is “girl-hating?” Ah yes, I see it so clearly now. I hate all 3.5 billion females on the planet, because I don’t appreciate picking up the tab for women who procreate with losers who have no intention of honoring their manly and fatherly responsibilities. Our welfare rolls are crowded with women who have multiple children from multiple fathers, none of whom had any intention of actually BEING fathers, nor was the expectation there - that’s why we have the welfare office, right? I don’t hate them; I just don’t appreciate having to pay the price, in taxes and societal costs, for their irresponsibility.
I also said very clearly - which Big V somehow neglected to mention, by way of context - that I do NOT apply that judgement to women who acted reasonably and in good faith, but were badly let down and betrayed by the men who fathered their children, or who ran out on their responsibilities.
“He’s one of the many homo boys who has posted about how women are a waste of time/money.”
You completely discredited yourself and your argument with that line.
I would submit that she discredited herself with just about every line she wrote, but the “homo boy” comment gives you some insight into her general mental pathology.
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-01-20 13:15:09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubsd-tWYmZw
“To make matters worse, the Freemans’ marriage has broken up, in part because of the house. And Kim Freeman…has been laid off from her job.The couple now is six months behind on their mortgage and could lose the home outright if their escrow doesn’t close.”
Did anyone else make an immediate association between the hectoring, sucubus wife on the infamous 2005 Century 21 “Suzanne Researched This” ad, and this failed marriage? I’m betting similar scenes [of marriages going up in smoke] are playing out between tens of thousands of couples, where the husbands, against their better judgement, crumbled under the relentless demands of their wives’ galactic sense of entititlement and perversion of the “nesting instinct,” aided and abetted by their faux female friends in Century 21 jackets.
Reply to this comment
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-01-20 13:38:33
Agreed. But generally, most men have an innate sense of caution about making big purchases or changes. Not all, by any means. And women, in general, are far more susceptible, in my experience, to believe in “research” (or marketing spiels) that happens to validate their sense of entitlement.
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-01-20 13:15:09
I’m betting similar scenes [of marriages going up in smoke] are playing out between tens of thousands of couples, where the husbands, against their better judgement, crumbled under the relentless demands of their wives’ galactic sense of entititlement and perversion of the “nesting instinct,” aided and abetted by their faux female friends in Century 21 jackets.
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-01-20 15:51:22
By the way, I’ve noticed that most guys who immediately leap to the “defense” of women and loudly proclaim what champions of womankind they are, are never actually popular with the ladies. Hmm….
The first to call Sammy a wife beater:
Comment by Big V
2008-01-20 22:19:33
Look Sam, don’t you go off blaming women for this mess. It’s still a man’s world, and you all need to take responsibility for your own failings. Otherwise, you can kindly go back to whatever cave you crawled out from and we’ll get Pamela Anderson to guard the entrance so you can’t get out.
Reply to this comment
Comment by SaladSD
2008-01-21 01:21:28
Oh, you’re being nice to women, Big V, so you aren’t going to be popular with the women who like to be slapped around by Sammy
I’m not the first to call SS a wife beater. He’s one of the many homo boys who has posted about how women are a waste of time/money. His famous quote is “Have you ever noticed how most women don’t actually like nice guys?”, this all stemming from a choice argument spearheaded by one of the other losers.
I think Ben spiked my original reply to this, probably wisely, since I had some unkind speculation as to why Big V seems, how shall we say, to live in her own made-to-order reality. So, I’ll try again, more calmly this time.
I’m not the first to call SS a wife beater.
I’m not aware of anyone else calling me a wife-beater in here, though Big V may well hear voices that rest of us can’t. Love the logic: If enough people call me a wife-beater, that makes me one. I’d love to see what would happen if LV Landlord made that charge while my wife was in the room.
His famous quote is “Have you ever noticed how most women don’t actually like nice guys?”
I never said any such thing. What I said was, it’s funny how guys who self-identify themselves as great champions of women’s liberation, are never actually popular with women. And the quote didn’t originate with me: It originated with Joseph Conrad in THE SECRET AGENT. That’s totally different than a blanket statement of “women don’t actually like nice guys,” which is such an idiotic statement that I won’t even bother trying to unscramble Big V’s interpretation.
If any women in here take these accusations seriously, I would respectfully suggest that you ask the longtime female posters in here about me, rather than accepting Big V’s libel at face value.
Big V,
I’m flattered that you archive my posts. I’m still trying to extrapolate how those posts, which apply to specific and limited situations, make me a wife-beater and woman-hater.
And my favorite from Sammy’s BF:
Comment by Earl 288
2008-01-20 17:41:48
As one of my co-workers used to say, “don`t bother getting married, just find some bitch you can`t stand, and buy her a house.”
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Sean
2008-01-20 21:23:11
Damn Earl.. That was funny!!!
The first mention of Sammy’s wife beating:
Comment by Big V
2008-01-20 22:19:33
Look Sam, don’t you go off blaming women for this mess. It’s still a man’s world, and you all need to take responsibility for your own failings. Otherwise, you can kindly go back to whatever cave you crawled out from and we’ll get Pamela Anderson to guard the entrance so you can’t get out.
Reply to this comment
Comment by SaladSD
2008-01-21 01:21:28
Oh, you’re being nice to women, Big V, so you aren’t going to be popular with the women who like to be slapped around by Sammy.
I have no idea who those posters [Earl & Sean] are, or how thoses post in any way relate to me, other than your claim that these guys are my “BFs” [meaning what, exactly?]
You thought Earl was real funny. BF = best friend.
As an aside:
“I prefer to live around people who have class”
Using the word “class” or “classy”, is a dead giveaway that your collar isn’t white. If you’re going to be a snob, do it up right.
Using the word “class” or “classy”, is a dead giveaway that your collar isn’t white.
—————–
I prefer to live around people who maintain their yards, don’t have multiple cars parked in the street/dirt yard, don’t listen to loud rap music (don’t like any very loud music, but rap is especially disgusting), abide by the law and are generally pleasant, kind, considerate people.
Some people might call that a “class” as people within a certain socio-economic group (upper-middle-ish incomes/education) *tend* to have these qualities more often, while other groups do not. That is a generalization, of course, but tends to hold true across varied geographic regions. There are always exceptions to every rule.
I would like to defend Sammy. The Nehemiah “down payment gift” is a dirty scam that artificially inflates house prices. The seller gives money to Nehemiah, who gives it to the buyer, who uses is as the downpayment, and the seller jacks up the selling price. Sucks.
Besides, Sammy is hilarious.
Thanks, RE Hobbyist. Good only knows what inner pathology Big V is in the grip of, but she needs to work out her delusions in her shrink’s office and not in here. What she’s accusing me of goes beyond a specific program - she’s calling me a wife-beater, a woman-hater, etc., on completely fabricated “evidence,” i.e. things I never said and never would say.
I think shes stalking you Sammy.
“‘Without programs such as this, it will put the American dream of homeownership in jeopardy for a lot of first-time lower-income homebuyers,’ said John Frith, spokesman for the California Building Industry Association.”
What complete and total horseshit! Someone please splain to my ignorant azz how my parents lived in an apartment in the 50’s into the 60’s had children on ONE income, my mother stayed home and raised the kids. By 1961 they had saved enough for a down payment( with..get this…NO assistance) on a house, had more children ( a total of 5) and were never more than middle class. I guess it’s a combination of the dumbing down of our population and the simple fact that very few people can grasp INFLATION. Our dollars have long been melting away.
Also for anyone interested in digging a little deeper than the ‘enlightened’ Wikapedia home ‘ownership’ by a large percentage is a fairly new concept. Neither set of my Grandparents owned a home, ever. They were born in the late very late 1800’s. They were very content.
This kind of says incomes are falling. Something I think we are all aware of.
Its beyond loans… I think deflation of worker incomes while money supply was increased.
Big V and Sammy smackdown….
Waste of bandwidth….
This drives me nuts. Out of one side of its mouth, the PTB bemoans the end of “affordable housing” (meaning stupid lending that only ends up in foreclosure), while the other side of the mouth pontificates on “saving house prices” with government bailouts that cannnot work. Like, duh, if the prices come down, then people will be able to AFFORD the houses, hello.
You’re nuts, all right.
Look up, Sam.
I this also speaks loudly about who the guys in washington are close with. Doesn’t matter who you are talking about… bush, clinton, pelosi, exc… They are moving tword some kind of action when the big money players are threatened.
Dean Baker had a good article/statement about this… “when manufacturing jobs are going away nothing can be done; but if something threatens bank profits then everything must be done”
Privatize profits and socialize losses.
“but now it’s listed at $198,000 for participants”
yeah whatever… O.K
From $493K!? 3,000 and some odd s/f? O.K, whatever.
“‘The small increase in defaults from the first to the second quarter may indicate that we’re nearing a plateau,’ said John Walsh, DataQuick president, in a statement. ‘We won’t know until the end of the year, but it may be that some lenders are starting to prioritize workouts with homeowners instead of grinding through the foreclosure process.’”
“Or, lenders simply might be swamped and can’t handle processing any more paperwork, he said.”
I’ll take option number two. Quicksand can only consume so much at a time. Now that the FDIC has stopped foreclosure proceedings on IndyMac customers, maybe we’ll only see a mild increase from the second to the third quarter.
But there are also rumors that Countrywide was slowing its foreclosure proceedings pending the closing of their deal with BoA. If true, then any acceleration to pick up the lagging Countrywide foreclosures would offset the decline from IndyMac. And those delayed IndyMac foreclosures will just be pushed into future quarters.
Yeah, but IndyMac is also making no new loans. See, there are two sides to this coin. You just can’t stop … The Big Down.
“Kelly Cunningham, economist with the San Diego Institute for Policy Research, said the market eventually will correct itself. There is a shortage of homes in San Diego County that should bring buyers back to the market sometime next year.”
“‘There is a lot of pent-up demand still and there are some bargains to be made as investors jump into the market. We won’t be seeing prices like this in the future,’ he said.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Isn’t this a little too soon to be bringing back the “shortage of homes” mantra? We still have a few more nails to hammer into the coffin with unemployment rising and borrowing costs increasing. But don’t worry, prices are going to take off once all that excess inventory is swallowed up. Does this mean it is also a good time to buy the financials?
Ah yes, the “pent up demand” mantra and “investors.” Not sure that either can qualify, or that there are many investors still out there thinking that RE is a great investment. I guess these shills just keep spouting the same non-sense as before because they don’t have anything else to say.
I guess these shills just keep spouting the same non-sense as before because they don’t have anything else to say.
Sad but true. We heard such crap throughout the last downturn. Cest la vie.
Think about it… last summer had record defaults and only now are we getting record foreclosures. I’ve always predicted that when the first mass of foreclosures hit the market, it would creat a larger 2nd wave of foreclosures. We’re only *now* enterting the start of the 2nd wave. But how many waves? Cest la vie. Eventually there will be a market. Not yet (for most areas).
Got Popcorn?
Neil
What is this “pent-up demand” I keep hearing about? I don’t recall ever seeing the term in my Econ 101 textbook.
My impression was that demand is a function of price — that you get more demand the lower the price is. In that sense, there’s *always* pent-up demand if you lower the price far enough.
Why don’t people ask for backup when they hear stupid statements like that? Sheer logic tells us that there is no shortage of homes. If that were true, then rents would be really high, and they’re not. Another Big Duh for the MSM.
Knife-catching kool-aid drinking knaves are still chasing real estate waves, dude.
Anyone care to comment on Modesto, CA in general? When homes lose 3/5ths of their value, is that knife-catching ( or bullet catching? ) It’s been awhile since I’ve driven through but I recall not feeling all that safe.
I just can’t imagine what that must be like for a community. So you paid ( foolishly or otherwise ) $493,000 and your “first-time buyer/special program” neighbor paid under 200k? Can’t feel good.
Modesto is ok–there are a few neighborhoods that are seriously low-income (and are not treated well by the city for services. Primarily Hispanic, many illegals involved in farming, actually pretty shameful.) But overall it is just another normal Central Valley place that has sprawled too much. I spent most of my summers there growing up–coming from the Bay Area–and always thought it was a little hick (which it was, but I was too snobby), but the girls were amazingly beautiful. Many of the older neighborhoods are full of trees and neat houses. Lots of new cookie cutter places housing Bay Area refugees. But there are some great parks, and the shopping is…ok. It is better than Stockton–also spent time there–by far in my opinion. Easy to get to the country fast.
There is a neat place called “The Old Fisherman’s Club” outside the city a bit where you can fish and shoot. Used to go there all the time with grandfather, always caught good-sized catfish.
Anyway, upshot is that it is fine. Does have an issue with illegals, but welcome to CA.
“sprawled too much”
When we drove through in 2006 my wife described it as a “roof farm” but again that describes a LOT of places. I guess the reason I ask is that Palm Springs seemed to be “The Desert Fortress” with no sign of prices faltering at all. That is up until recently. I was on C/L recently and there were numerous short-sales, REO’s etc.
I realize to CA’s there’s a big difference weather-wise but to an OR, well any place that isn’t raining 9 1/2 mos. out of the year is an improvement! With as much as prices have dropped in Modesto I felt it might be worth a 2nd look? Thanks Bob.
DinOR
If I might venture an opinion - the difference between Modesto and PS is the winters. Modesto can get pretty cold and foggy. Cold being high 30’s and 40’s. PS is beatiful in the winter, with very little rain and highs in the 60’s and 70’s. Also, PS has a bunch of golf courses, so if you’re a golfer, it’s a no-brainer. And, for the most part, better shopping and restaurants.
Batman to the Joker: “He who laughs last…laughs loudest”!
Serfs Up Everywhere, bud
“In the Bay Area, mortgage servicers recorded 18,516 notices of default, up more than 140 percent from a year ago, DataQuick said. The largest increase was in Santa Clara County, where defaults rose 194.2 percent to 3,751. The smallest gain was in San Francisco, 62.6 percent to 418.”
And we have yet to see the bulk of the Prime and AltA PayOption, IO/NegAM ARMs.
Put a fork in it.
Lisa,
Normally I would agree without reservation but I really would like to see the Credit Suisse Re-Set chart ( updated ) The last one I saw was from 2006. I could be totally wrong but I have to suspect that a lot of the loans that made up those spikes have been re-fi’d where and when possible?
Not that any of those doofuses had a clue on a level of our discussions but were more looking to save their own hyde. In typical “I gots mine” bubble fashion of course.
I’d like to see that chart updated, too. I’m not sure how many I/O and Option ARM folks have re-financed, though. Most who went that route did so because that was the only way they could afford the monthly payments (at least before the loan recast); re-financing into a traditional 30 year FRM probably wasn’t an option for many, as the payments were too high. With lending standards tightening significantly and lending programs being taken off the market, I wonder how many I/O and Option ARM folks were actually able to, and did, re-finance.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jun2008/bw2008065_751141.htm
Ask and ye shall receive, the resets are starting now.
Not many….I get the calls all the time
Leave it to California to spend $200 million when they have massive budget shortfalls to prop up house prices, which will just get funneled into bank coffers to offset some of their losses as they raise selling prices accordingly, while they continue to drown in processing foreclosures. The news story should be that the idiocy of California’s legislature goes largely unnoticed in all of the other blithering idiocy coming out of Sacramento which has become so commonplace it’s taken as a given these days.
Uh, I think Arnold is behind this one. At least, he was on the telly taking all the “credit.”
IAT
The gap between the amounts spent on these efforts to prop up house prices versus the scale of losses is completely hilarious, both at the CA state and federal levels.
“Kelly Cunningham, economist with the San Diego Institute for Policy Research, said the market eventually will correct itself. There is a shortage of homes in San Diego County that should bring buyers back to the market sometime next year.”
“‘There is a lot of pent-up demand still and there are some bargains to be made as investors jump into the market. We won’t be seeing prices like this in the future,’ he said.”
Add another JT candidate to the top of the list.
“Kelly Cunningham, economist with the San Diego Institute for Policy Research, said the market eventually will correct itself. There is a shortage of homes in San Diego County that should bring buyers back to the market sometime next year.”
There is no shortage, there is a surplus. The only shortage is of houses priced at levels in line with potential purchasers incomes.
“‘There is a lot of pent-up demand still and there are some bargains to be made as investors jump into the market. We won’t be seeing prices like this in the future,’ he said.”
Prices will be lower.
Prices are headed much lower.
Hmmm… Cunninghams from San Diego aren’t known for speaking the truth much…
ex-nnv,
Now I could believe there is a shortage of ‘affordable’ homes but I think they have OP-POS OTA?
“Distressed mortgages continued to put a drag on the troubled economy in June as 1,838 homes in San Diego County went into foreclosure, an 18 percent increase over the previous month and a 180 percent increase over June 2007, DataQuick reported Tuesday.”
The latest monthly increase in foreclosures occurred at an annualized rate of (1.18^12 - 1)*100 = 628.7, which graphically resembles the trajectory of a moon shot.
“Kelly Cunningham, economist with the San Diego Institute for Policy Research, said the market eventually will correct itself. There is a shortage of homes in San Diego County that should bring buyers back to the market sometime next year.”
At least the rate of increase in foreclosures is likely to soon correct itself.
If the current rate of increase in foreclosures persisted for very long, then every home in San Diego County would soon go into foreclosure.
“We won’t be seeing prices like this in the future,’ he said.”
This is true; the foreclosure deluge coupled with a slowdown (not recession) pretty much assures far more affordable prices within the span of the next several years.
Clarification: 628.7 ‘percent’, meaning more than a seven-fold increase in the foreclosure rate over a year’s worth of the current rate of increase.
Detectives from the Sheriff’s office came by today and asked my wife a few questions about one of our neighbors. They said that they were going to serve papers that they wouldn’t be too happy about. They also wanted to know the address of the HOA.
I checked the purchase record and they bought pretty close to the top in 2006. They moved in with two huge trucks. Last year, they replaced one of the trucks with a new small car. And I haven’t seen the husband/boyfriend for several months now. Nor his vehicle. They have a teenager. So I was trying to figure out what the Sheriff’s office does. They handle evictions, tenant/landlord, domestic violence orders, court judgements and a few other things. If it were a criminal matter, then I think that the local police would have come by. I’ve never seen the couple arguing so I don’t think that it’s domestic. And why would they need to contact the HOA? Perhaps it’s a foreclosure! It would be the first one here since the 1980s when one place sold at about 40% of then market value and about 1/6th of today’s market value. I told my wife to make a bid of about 35% if they have a doorstep sale and she’s around.
I personally don’t know anyone that’s been foreclosed on - this would be a first for me.
I think there’s a soon-to-be foreclosure on my street too. It’s vacant, though. The house across the street is going to be a flop. The Mexicans who moved in are at work day in and day out with room additions, renovations, new roof, you name it. They’re making it into a McMansion.
In San Francisco do they get permits because here lots of folks don’t bother, especially the mexicans. My old rental now has a brand new 2 story, no permits of course. In SD they brag on the MLS that it’s not on the tax rolls.
“‘We’re overrun with people who want to buy. The challenge is getting them qualified,’ said Matt Battiata, a real estate broker based in Carlsbad. ‘The effect on the market is as if the Fed jacked up interest rates.’”
It is wise of the Fed to use the targeted strategy of tighter lending standards instead of the shotgun strategy of higher interest rates to cool the housing mania. However, they are too late by years.
Matt Battiata is the problem, not the solution.
Plus…
His commercials are really obnoxious.
Here is his insignificant website.
http://agent-36038.pages.tourfactory.com/Default.asp?p=Tours
I’ve been running around today but I saw an article that some our FED regulators were going over Freddy’s and Fannie’s Books for Congress today and I have only one question as a humble Taxpayer.
“How do you like your Cooked Books served up America, sunnyside up or scrambled ?”
Paulson: “scrambled…with greasy, dripping, sliced sausage from the the Main Street pension funds co-op”
They’re going over the books AGAIN??? Last time that happened, they found a bunch of fraud, and then didn’t do anything about it. Why would anyone expect anything different this time? DUH!
“‘The small increase in defaults from the first to the second quarter may indicate that we’re nearing a plateau,’ said John Walsh, DataQuick president, in a statement. ‘We won’t know until the end of the year, but it may be that some lenders are starting to prioritize workouts with homeowners instead of grinding through the foreclosure process.’”
“Or, lenders simply might be swamped and can’t handle processing any more paperwork, he said.”
I’m guessing it’s answer number 2…..
“Some of those homes have been deeply discounted. A four-bedroom house built three years ago at 424 Fusco Ave. in Modesto originally sold for about $490,000, and it’s been listed for $270,000 since being foreclosed. First-time home buyers now can purchase the 2,888-square-foot house for $237,600.”
So that is like what $80k, $90k annual income requirement? I’m quite sure the majority of service sector employment will easily qualify.
Yeah $80K income with a $48K down payment plus additional cash in bank. I’m sure there are just loads of qualified buyers left over from the biggest housing bubble in history just dying to buy in Modesto.
Oh, since only one or two senators are expressing objections to the governments plans for the new bail out plans ,or non-stop “blank check” ,just how bias are the politicians going to be in even viewing data . So I say scrambled ,with some you know what on top .Guess the politicians have to make it look like they were thoughfull in their analysis and needed proof of what the taxpayers risks are going to be .
Are you still going on about that stuff? I saw today that the numbers might be $25 billion. The Feds borrow that in 8 or 9 days! You can’t “bail-out” the GSEs with anything less than trillions. And all borrowed, so add interest. Good luck running that through the bond market with $4 gas.
But keep on worrying about things out of your control, while some of us are positioning to be constructive and make something out of this mess. The bail out blabber is nothing but a waste of time.
And bandwidth, which someone does have to pay for, BTW.
To be fair, most of us who complain about the ‘bailout plan de jour’ aren’t complaining that it’ll magically make housing prices rocket back up and stay up, or make Freddie and Fannie’s stock shoot up to 60 bucks. We’re complaining that the government is willfully wasting MORE money to make it look like they’re doing something. And the money they’re wasting is ours, the taxpayers.
Yes, we can all keep our powder dry and try and make some bucks, but it’s still outrageous to see governments blowing money on stuff they HAVE to know won’t work.
Outrage upon outrage. I spent years working in political campaigns and worrying about this and that. I would suggest there are much bigger outrages in this country than housing legislation.
Freddie and Fannie are the hub of the banking wheel. Banking is the core of the business economy. Business is how people earn their paychecks. Paychecks are where things like food and shelter come from.
Making those who screwed things up pay for their mistakes is a luxury we cannot afford at this point in time unless we don’t mind sinking the ship and drowning together with them.
OH, bull.
Freddie and Fannie are two inept companies who were allowed to deviate from their mandates long ago. If they fail, then 10 other better companies will take their place, as long as there is a demand for their services. If there is no demand, then it doesn’t matter. That’s how capitalism works. What you are suggesting, Joey, is that we turn Fannie and Freddie into government monopolies who can never be usurped. Such a move would destroy our capitalistic system forever. We do not have the luxury of bailing out the F-word GSEs at the expense of our entire economic system.
I think it’s possible that politicians can make mistakes that are so big that it set up more mistakes and the snow-ball effect
take hold . Once you start going down a certain course of action as a government body it’s very hard to stop .
I would love to believe that the course that the powers are talking isn’t layering mistake upon mistake ,but it’s not true .
While I believe that the plus side of the housing crash will be
“cheap houses for everyone”,which is good ,at the same time
what prices are paid by policies that would offset such gains .
As long as the politicians are not looking at ways to re-establish
a strong economy by new industry or re-direction into positive territory ,than the re-building that is necessary doesn’t take place ,or at least at not so fast a pace .
Freddie and Fannie are unlikely the hub of anything. It’s just a bunch of wealthy people who’ve convinced the masses (including . . . horrors! some of the people who usually weigh in here with good insights) that F&F are essential. Why? So the wealthy who made the bad bet of investing in F&F can get “free” money from you and me and continue to live their high-on-the-hog lifestyle, and keep crowing about how independent and self-made they are to the rest of us.
IF an organization such as F&F is essential, why not have the govt do what someone on this blog (I can’t recall who) suggested earlier? Set-up another organization or two (Greddie and Grannie?), have them underwrite conforming loans, and then have the govt divest itself of the entities in X years (by law) through selling shares on the NYSE (which takes care of the taxpayers and also prevents the development of another massive government bureaucracy). Problem solved. No moral hazard, as the gamblers of F&F have to clean up their own mess, and solvency standards of lending can be maintained for the initially small set of people who qualify for conforming loans, an amount of people that will increase as prices continue to fall . . . IF there is no stupif government intervention that slows it all down by releasing people from their obligations (like bailing out failing lending institutions).
That’s what most of us, especially JoeyinCA, say for the “undeserving” poor. Why this strong medicine isn’t good for the rich, when we have other ways to protect the economy and society, is never explained by those who hold these contradictory views. They usually just change the topic, wait a day, and continue writing their contradictory missives.
IAT
If they fail, then 10 other better companies will take their place, as long as there is a demand for their services.
Of course.. But its not a matter of possible or potential demand for the service… the service is required if we hope to keep our current economic system.
GSE failure will be sudden as Indymac’s but far more invasive, traumatic and costly.. the whole system will shut down.
Assuming some financial entities capable of stepping into their shoes survive the collapse, there will be no time to wait on them to grow into and take over the role the GSEs played.
..wanna guarantee the govt really socializes the economy? Let the GSEs collapse… Because afterwards the govt will be the only force who will be left even partially operational.
Joey ,first ,you have admitted that you own Fannie and Fred stock,so you might be kinda bias ,maybe .
Second ,I was the one that proposed the idea of a new government chartered loan company being formed for the purpose of the so-called emergency of the so-called temporary credit crunch that would have a short term function at best and be responsible for the objective of creating a source of prudent conventional loans for the marketplace. I only made that suggestion because of the down side of government intervention
or mixing with private own companies such as Fannie and Freddie .
wiz, i have no objections to cleaning the mess up in a controlled manner… control being the operative word.
For me, this entire argument begins and ends with only one thing: How much will the proposed solutions cost us? I want to pick the least expensive way out.
I believe the collapse of F+F will cost us (mostly in peripheral damage) far more than will offering them capital (if needed) or by govt (taxpayers) buying their stock so we have a vote in their operations and can put a lid on things.
Right now, i don’t give a crap about criminality.. or about how the wealthy are benefitted by socializing the losses.. or about whatever GSE system we set up for the future of the secondary market.. or anything else, except the cost to fix the current problem .. stop the bleeding and stabilize the patient.
We’ll have plenty of time to prosecute or lynch whoever deserves it after things are stabilized..
And for my FNM ownership, we’re talking 5 trillion bucks spread out.. anyone who owns shares in a bond fund probably owns some FNM. Retirement funds.. pension funds.. credit unions.. A majority of americans probably own some.
Almost all the banks directly own a hell of a lot of F+F’s debt. $5T .. $5,000,000,000,000. We just might notice it when that kinda money disappears.
Yep! The Chinese and Japanese own a large amount of the ASSets of Fannie and Freddie as well. Having purchased these bonds, stocks, etc. - THEY (the investors) should be the ones to take the financial hit for not doing their due diligence (obviously) in owning such garbage paper in the first place.
These 2 pigs should fail and investors should take the haircut.
That’s how Capitalism works! Bad businesses MUST fail. Others will replace them do succeed or fail based on their how well they do their job……
<<<>>>
“The small increase in defaults from the first to the second quarter may indicate that we’re nearing a plateau,” DataQuick President John Walsh said in a prepared statement.
You heard the man, people: NODs and foreclosures have reached a permanently high plateau. California is working off of a totally new economic model than any of us have ever experienced in the past. NODs may not fall for generations. Sell now or be priced in forever!
Nice.
Although, I don’t think we’ve plateaued yet.
Also, it’s finally getting fun in the Bay Area. You can feel the fear. I know a couple who’ve lost 300k so far. Bought a house for around a million, had the tax assessor say “Just pay taxes on 700k, mkay?”
They live in a recent toll brother development, so they get some pretty direct comps of their house foreclosing/short selling/etc. It’s gotta make them sick to their stomachs.
Hi sfbubblebuyer, could you say where the 300k haircut took place? I’m curious.
I looked at a $1.2m 1400ft house in los altos a few weeks back. Did not make one of the 12 offers on it. Then a $1.4m 1500 ft house. did not make one of the 5 offers on it.
However, prices are a bit down from last summer in my experience, when a 1600ft original 1950 condition house in that hood sold for $1.55m.
And I did see a couple of foreclosures and short sales in Los Gatos, those high-living folks. so there is hope for the move-up!
Oh, SiO2, you’re back!
Looks like all those “immune” areas that you track/live in have begun to show their true colors, eh? Better sit tight, you’re in for a looooong ride. Maybe move up in 2012.
Hi Big V,
I don’t live there. I want to. I hope for Modesto style price decreases. 2012… that’s a long ways off.
“With the failure of subprime lenders about a year ago, borrowers going to local mortgage brokers are finding fewer options and even fewer loans they can qualify for as banks tighten lending requirements, mortgage brokers said.”
…
“‘We’re overrun with people who want to buy. The challenge is getting them qualified,’ said Matt Battiata, a real estate broker based in Carlsbad. ‘The effect on the market is as if the Fed jacked up interest rates.’”
SHEESH!!!! The challenge is getting them qualified???? I guess lowering prices just doesn’t make sense to these people yet.
ROTFLMAO
I keep reading about how there is this huge pent up demand from buyers who cannot qualify! Well, my neice wants a convertable mustang but can’t even afford a scooter. She’ll get a used Honda and like it!
Seriously, this entitlement mentality. We’re watching what happens when three generations were not told “no!” The boomers, Gen X, and Gen Y. At least a dozen years worth of debt is coming due.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Yeah, these people use “demand” when they mean “want.” True demand is measured by those who not only want an item, but also can afford it (which would include qualifying for a loan if they need to finance the purchase).
Heck, I’ve got a long wish list of items that I would like to have, but that doesn’t mean that I constitute “pent up demand” for those itmes because I am not actually going to spend the money to buy them at this point (and may never do so).
But what can you expect from real estate agents? Obviously, economics is not part of the real estate licensing exam.
Yeah, I have pent up demand for my husband doing my laundry.
Where do you get boomers not told no? Lest we forget, boomers were kids in the late 40s, 50s, and early 60s. The bulk grew up in the good old days where getting spanked, slapped and otherwise punished was acceptable behavior. Parents didn’t need to say no as much because kids knew better than to ask for much - you were supposed to appreciate whatever you got. The teacher and school were always right and you were expected to go to school, sit down, shut up and do your work. Things were way more rigid and intolerant and that’s what caused most of the rebellion of the 60s. And I grew up in the liberal bastion of the westside of LA and that’s how it was in most every house/family.
Boomers were the beneficiaries of the first easy credit during the heydey of financial security in the US.
I will turn this car around right now if you kids don’t quiet down!
Right Big V . Also , Boomers were the beneficiaries of a robust job market where Corporations offered long term security, advancements and benefits for loyalty. A abundant job market
for a number of decades was a great benefit for the Boomers I feel .It something that I want the young people of today to have .
But regarding easy credit ,I’m not so sure if Bommers had the easy type credit that has taken place in the last say 10 to 15 years . Credit lines were somewhat limited to qualifying .
I read a stat that the average American has 11 k in credit card balances ,and that would of been unheard of in earlier decades .
I remember that people use to finance cars and houses and sometimes appliances in 50’s,60’s,70’s . But your right that Boomers were more free to use credit ,but their parents did start to use it in the late 40’s and 50’s but it was called a “installment loan “.
Turn the car around - I wish. It was more like if I have to stop this car…..and I sat in the back of the station wagon that faced backwards, so everytime the car stopped - I didn’t know if it was a stop sign or he was coming.
“Don’t make me take my belt off!”
I got the ruler on the hands from the nuns and the belt from my dad. Not good memories.
God, did you people have the same parents I had . The school system use to dole out punishment also ,I mean physical punishment like getting whacked .
“‘We’re getting hit from all angles,’ said Yamila Ayad, president of Mission Home Loans in San Marcos. ‘Last August, when a lot of subprime lenders were closing, I was not shocked. But it becomes very concerning when your prime banks start closing.’”
Hey genius. The banks are waiting for the bottom just like the wise bubble bloggers. Guess what? We’re the market baby.
that was one lame hurricane..
See now? Just as the scientists predicted, global warming prevents large hurricanes from forming.
go ahead and trash this post Ben .. i’m bored and while it might be fun, it’s guaranteed to be a waste of bandwidth.
so that one got through, eh? Lets see..
Good lord.. Oil is down under $128 a bbl??
Dont they know we are experiencing Peak OiL, demand is skyrocketing with China and India and lots of cars and factories and all that stuff and that they aint making any more oil? How could prices fall? This is a total joke! It’s gotta be some NWO government conspiracy.. the Trilateral comission.. the Luminati.. someone is manipulating the energy market.
JoeyinCA,
you’re like the guy who has one beer, says WOW, I heard all about this drink being intoxicatin’, what these people talkin’ ’bout, ain’t nothing — and then proceeds to drink five or ten more because, see, it didn’t matter, and then gets in the car and tries to drive home.
It’s kinda sad to witness such . . . short-sightedness. Kinda like when I used to try to tell people, back in 2002, that bay area house prices were too high and were gonna crash. No one believed me then, just like no one believed most of those of us on this blog then. And look what happened.
Yup, kinda sad.
Good luck as you navigate life’s . . . challenges. And remember what all the prospectuses say–past good fortune is no guarantee of future success.
IAT
i admit i’m no visionary.. nor would i want to be one.
If i envisioned something like the NWO, history has proven that i could worry about it my entire life.. several lifetimes actually.. and not live long enough to witness my vision blossoming into reality. Global warming is a much younger vision, but otherwise not much different.
As for oil, my bartender thinks it’s gonna drop another $20 bucks within a week or two.
Lol.
a real Hurricane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EotM7FH8uQg
What a dumb title, it will probably be decades before prices return to current levels. We tell those who want to sell, get out now or you will be priced in forever.
“Costa questioned the fairness of reducing home prices so drastically for first-time buyers rather than for everybody.”
life is not fair
But I want a pony!
U.S. Lawmakers Reach Deal on Fannie, Freddie Bill (Update2)
housing crash averted……all good, sell em if ya got em.
“A property Costa is trying to sell for CitiMortgage is at 243 Angora St. in Patterson. Its previous owners borrowed more than $493,000 on the home in the spring of 2005, then lost it to foreclosure. The 3,312-square-foot house had been priced at $229,900, but now it’s listed at $198,000 for participants.”
if gas prices stay high or get higher, $198k may still be too much for a town like Patterson. I lived nearby Patterson for a short time around 2003-2004. The town offers very little, unless you get excited about country restaurants that serve frozen waffles. They built hundreds of homes that I was told accomodated Bay Area commuters. But if gas prices stay as they are or go higher, who is going to want that commute?! BTW, check out Angora street on trulia. Within just a few blocks around 60 homes come up “for sale,” about 50 of those are in some stage of foreclosure:
http://www.trulia.com/CA/Patterson/#for_sale/Patterson,CA/37.467109,37.471708,-121.159632,-121.153662_xy/16_zm/
I know some people say that the high oil prices are just another bubble ready to burst. But if oil supply does become a major issue in the coming years, the only thing that may get California thriving again is a really good mass transit system.
“Kelly Cunningham, economist with the San Diego Institute for Policy Research, said the market eventually will correct itself. There is a shortage of homes in San Diego County that should bring buyers back to the market sometime next year.”
It’s the old investment opportunity will bring investors argument, eh?
The largest increase was in Santa Clara County, where defaults rose 194.2 percent to 3,751.
Yes, YES, YES!!!!!!!!