July 25, 2008

The Competition Is Based On Price And It’s Vicious!

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Looking to buy a house in Culpeper? There are plenty to choose from, and they’re going cheap. Looking to sell a house in Culpeper? Lots of other homeowners are as well, values have plummeted and foreclosures are at an all-time high. A two-level rambler with three bedrooms and three bathrooms in Pelham’s Reach along Sperryville Pike sold last month for $149,000. That same house, built in 2005, went for $345,000, said Amissville Realtor Julie Emery.”

“Just down the road in Redwood Lakes, a larger Colonial-style house with four bedrooms and 3 1/2 baths sold for $230,100 last month. But the original homeowner purchased it new in November 2006 for $448,000.”

“‘You won’t see prices going up anytime soon,’ Emery said. ‘Right now, if you have to sell, be prepared to price your home very, very aggressively. The competition is based on price and it’s vicious!’”

“The Charlotte-area housing slump continues, with second-quarter sales declining more than national rates. Sales have fallen for five consecutive quarters. Mike Hiott recently had an offer on the northwest Charlotte house he’s been trying to sell since April, but the would-be buyers couldn’t meet today’s tougher lending standards. Another couple made a low offer, which he refused.”

“Hiott, who wants to move closer to his job in Union County, also couldn’t sell his home last year. ‘We’ve probably had a dozen showings, but in the last week, we haven’t had any calls,’ said Hiott, who has dropped the price a little, but says, ‘I’m not going to give my house away.’”

“All over East Tennessee, builders and home sellers are wrestling with the same problem - how to persuade people to “go ahead and buy something” and, if that doesn’t work, deciding what to do as an alternative.”

“Knoxville real estate investor Kenny Lockhart said his strategy is to buy homes, fix them up and sell them, but right now ‘you can’t sell a house.’”

“Since her brother had a stroke, Athens, Tenn., resident Annette Stephens has been trying to help him sell a Florida home. Stephens said the Sarasota County home was initially listed at $299,000 but the price has since been slashed to $179,000 and the family is now offering - in newspaper classified ads and on eBay - to trade it for a home in Tennessee.”

“‘There is still at least a market (for homes) up here,’ Stephens said. ‘Down there there’s just almost nothing … thousands of homes for sale. It’s unbelievable what’s happened in Florida. It was so overbuilt and overpriced and with the economy, people just aren’t going.’”

“Single-family home sales in New Hampshire fell 21.8 percent in the first half of this year, compared with the first half of 2007, and median sale prices dropped 8.2 percent, according to the New Hampshire Association of Realtors. And the number of homes on the market has remained steady at about 12,000 for the last year. Of the homes for sale, about 1,000 of them are foreclosure properties.”

“New Hampshire Association of Realtors President Jim Lyons stressed that real estate is still a good long-term investment. He pointed to New Hampshire real estate data from the past 10 years: Median prices have more than doubled since 2001 and the state had five years of double-digit price increases, from 2000 to 2004.”

“‘That’s why we don’t believe that it’s realistic to think of recent declines as the market crumbling or, as they like to say, the bubble bursting,’ Lyons said.”

“Sales in June fell from a year ago in the city of St. Louis and all 10 area counties reviewed by the Post-Dispatch. The median price dropped in all but three counties. Jamie and Brandon Wunderle, whose two-bedroom, 832-square-foot house is no longer big enough for them and their two children, put their house in unincorporated north St. Louis County on the market two years ago, and took it off a year ago. They’re going to try again soon.”

“‘But I am not getting my hopes up,’ she said. ‘There are three other houses for sale on the same street as us, and they haven’t sold.’”

“But the inventory of new houses remains high, and builders are offering discounts and free upgrades. Homeowners like Joan Helmholt can’t match those perks. Helmholt put her Lake Saint Louis house on the market for $288,900 in April 2007, but took it off when it didn’t sell, even after a drop of nearly $20,000. Now it’s back on the market — for $259,900.”

“If it doesn’t sell by fall, she’ll try again when the market turns around. ‘Maybe next year … hopefully,’ she said.”

“The dollar volume of real estate sales was down 50 percent through June compared to the first six months of last year, according to a report by Land Title Guarantee Co. The number of transactions was off nearly 33 percent from last year’s pace, the report said.”

“The record year was 2006, with total sales of $2.4 billion. ‘It’s probably never going to be repeated,’ said Bob Starodoj, a real estate broker who has worked in Aspen for more than 40 years.”

“Starodoj said there are still ‘a hell of a lot’ of people looking at real estate in the Aspen area. It’s just not resulting in a lot of sales right now. Many buyers are being conservative and want to see where prices are going; many sellers ‘are in denial,’ said Starodoj. ‘They still think it’s 2007.’”

“As the number of foreclosures increase in the Valley, some believe it may help the ailing housing market by attracting buyers looking for a good deal. ‘The market is still sinking, but it’s exciting. The banks are about to become the major player in the Valley,’ said real estate agent Stanley Fosha.”

“The John Hall & Associates agent points to an area north of Paradise Valley in Phoenix as an example of how foreclosures are fueling buyers. He said from January to June the area off Tatum & Paradise Village Parkway was essentially silent in sales.”

“But Fosha said several foreclosed properties have driven prices down. ‘In the past month there have been six sales, one condominium went on the market Friday and sold on Monday,’ Fosha said. That condo sold in 2005 for $370,000 and sold days ago for $149,000, according to the agent.”

“Fosha expects many more foreclosures to pop up within the next few months. ‘There are 24,000 homes in foreclosure right now, 15,000 have been taken back, that’s 38,000 to 39,000 homes right there that could be on the market in the next 90-days,’ Fosha said.”

“The Las Vegas housing market is flying close to the bottom but giving mixed signals as to where the actual ground may be, housing analyst Larry Murphy said Thursday. ‘The bad news is housing prices are down and the double-whammy is oil prices are up,’ Murphy told about 325 real estate professionals. ‘The good news is beer is cheaper than gas. So drink, don’t drive.’”

“Murphy shows a $215,000 median price for existing homes, the same as it was four years ago — and falling. ‘The scary thing right now is the foreclosure iceberg,’ he said.”

“About half the homes sold in June were foreclosures, and their median price was $113 a square foot, he said. Lenders are slashing prices on foreclosed homes as the numbers surge.”

“Consultant Steve Bottfeld said Las Vegas is going through a rolling ‘Goldilocks’ recovery. ‘It’s not too hot. It’s not too cold. Unfortunately, it’s not just right for everybody,’ he said.”

“Defaults in the April-to-June quarter more than doubled in the East Bay and San Mateo County compared with the same period in 2007, DataQuick reported. And single-family housing starts fell 48 percent in the East Bay in June compared with June 2007, the California Building Industry Association said.”

“In several California markets, including the East Bay and San Joaquin County, foreclosed homes - many quite new - make up the majority of home sales. ‘The builders are in competition with the foreclosure market, and they can’t compete,’ said Alan Nevin, chief economist of the California builders group.”

“A 30-year decision was made in a matter of seconds for 16 people Sunday night, with DeNova Homes-hired auctioneers selling the new single-family houses in the high $600,000 range.”

“This is the second home auction in Morgan Hill in recent months. The trend, which is happening throughout California and the West Coast, especially in highly desirable areas like Morgan Hill, is caused by the housing slump, with homes sitting on the market for months even with prices at the lowest level in years.”

“The starting prices were as low as $475,000 for the four- and five-bedroom homes. Their suggested prices - the price DeNova could have sold them for about two years ago, perhaps - ranged from $822,000 to $958,000. Buyers left with an average purchase price of $650,000.”

“Bidder Greg Berg, who didn’t raise his hand once during the hour-long auction, had a more cynical view.”

“‘They probably realized their goal, and probably got the prices they wanted,’ he said. Berg called the process manipulative. ‘The artificial excitement of the barkers, the shouting that they do, grinning like they’re having the best time in their lives. It’s their goal to make as much money as they can.’”

“New home construction in the Valley and Virginia is dragging to a standstill, and the prognosis for the remainder of this year and next is bleak, builders and economists said Monday. ‘There is a complete stop, almost, on construction,’ Waynesboro builder/Realtor Rick Kane said. ‘People are renovating or remodeling.’”

“Augusta County Chief Building Inspector Mike Nickell said the sluggish market has changed the mentality of local contractors. ‘Five years ago, they would laugh at remodeling,’ he said. ‘Now, builders are falling back on remodeling.’”

“In North Texas, new-home sales dropped 27 percent in the 12 months ended in June, says research firm Metrostudy. Nationwide, new-home sales fell 40 percent from May 2007 to May 2008. Year-over-year…Dallas prices declined 3.4 percent.”

“The current level of home building, on a pace of about 32,000 homes annually, is about the same as in 2000. That’s a more sustainable rate, says research economist Jim Gaines of the Texas A&M Real Estate Center.”

“Speaking to a room full of home builders, Gaines asked them what they were if they weren’t building houses. ‘A remodeler,’ one guy quipped.”

“Everyday the papers are filled with sad financial stories about how some struggling family may have to give up their four cell phones, new Lexus SUV, three Jet Skis and yearly trip to Italy in order to keep their house.”

“A few years ago, it was very easy to get a loan. You could be out driving around when you’d find yourself needing to use the bathroom. So you’d pull up to a random business, which happened to be mortgage company, and you’d ask to use the restroom, and they’d say, ‘Sure,’ and you’d strike up a conversation with the employee in the stall next to you, and by the time you flushed, you’d have a 30-year mortgage at 6.25 percent with 1 point origination fee.”

“Needless to say, some companies weren’t real picky about the credit checks either: MORTGAGE APPLICANT: ‘Hi. I don’t have a job and I’m not looking for one. Besides massive debt, I have a serious heroin problem and I declared bankruptcy 12 minutes ago.’”

“LOAN OFFICER: ‘Here! Take all this money. Please!’”

“Not that I’m making light of foreclosures. As a kid growing up in Grand Junction during the 1980s, many of my neighbors lost their houses. For example: We had some neighbors across the street who were very odd. Then one day they got foreclosed upon and had to move.”

“And I’ve noticed that when people get evicted, they don’t exactly tidy up the place and leave it sparkling clean for the new occupants. They tend to be mad at the bank and want revenge. And boy, did my neighbor sure show them. He not only took the appliances with him when he moved, he (true story) even took the light bulbs.”

“This, I’m sure, was devastating to the company that held the mortgage: Mortgage headquarters in New York… ASSISTANT: ‘Sir!’”

“CEO: ‘What’s the emergency?’ ASSISTANT: ‘It’s the Johnson family in Grand Junction, Colorado. When they moved out, they took all the light bulbs!’ CEO ‘What! No! Those are 49 cents each. How am I supposed to explain that to the board of directors?’”

“So hopefully we’ll all get through this huge crisis. Because it can happen to anyone. It can happen to me. I could get foreclosed upon. If so, those bastards aren’t getting my light bulbs.”




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106 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-07-25 11:16:48

Another huge reports week. My thanks to those who support this blog. And also to the folks who signed up at the new forum. A technical note; I am leaning against finishing the WP/SMF bridge, as it would require everyone here to use lower case screen names only. Let me think about it. As always, please check back this weekend and we’ll see what’s happening. I’m off to the foreclosure auction!

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-25 11:54:49

Oooh, have fun at the auction, Ben! Remember, only laugh at those who deserve it. Oh. Wait.
Well, just go ahead and laugh loudly the whole time.
Say, do they serve cotton candy at those auctions? Are there clowns? Well, there surely are, but I mean clowns with red bulb noses, I mean? Popcorn?
How about you tell us alllllll about it later.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 15:14:41

What new forum?

Comment by Leighsong
2008-07-25 16:12:13

Hey BigV,

The new forum can be found here:

http://forum.thehousingbubbleblog.com/

Some of us made the mistake of logging on with our current handle (addy) and e-mail, like this forum.

You must register first. You’ll see login and register.

You can register as BigV but must create a password.

Happy Blogging!
Leigh

P.S. Great effort by Ben - I love the new site! (and the old one too!)

 
Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 16:24:23

I can’t get my avatar to upload.

Comment by Mole Man
2008-07-25 20:52:55

Avatars aren’t working for anyone. That needs some setup and space on the server side, so send Ben buckets of cash and maybe he’ll shine down on Avatarland.

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Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 21:50:44

Oh, Rocky Mountain Low solved it for me. You have to use a graphics program (I used Photo Shop) to shrink your pic so it’s no larger than 65 x 65 pixels.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2008-07-25 11:40:04

I cannot help but laugh at the use of the term “highly desirable” and “Morgan Hill” in the same sentence. It’s about halfway down the road to Gilroy. It’s hot, dusty, and nowhere near the job centers. And you have a single path to commute to your job in the Bay Area, and god help you if it’s further away than San Jose, cause it’ll probably take you an hour to get from Morgan Hill to any of the towns past San Jose on a good day.

Comment by llking
2008-07-25 14:20:58

Used to live in South SJ when I interned for IBM. I had a few intern friends who rented rooms up on Morgan Hills. They were pretty nice. This is back in the late 80’s.

You’re right. Only one freeway to get to any place. Lord, have mercy if you need to go North past San Jose.

 
Comment by Crusader
2008-07-25 15:45:15

Yup, have to agree. Morgan Hill is the ass end of San Jose. Really yuk.

 
 
Comment by Robert London
2008-07-25 11:42:33

Steven Bottfield is a laughingstock. In 2005 he blew soap bubbles at the audience at a conference, mocking the pundits who said that Las Vegas real estate was in a bubble. In June of 2006 he adamantly stated that Las Vegas was not in a housing boom and that prices would increase in 2007 and 2008. And this a paid consultant speaking.

You can’t make this stuff up.

Comment by WT Economist
2008-07-25 14:05:46

A gift for self promotion is apparently the only gift that matters.

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-25 15:01:56

Robert London,

You and me both brother. In ways Vegas was the only market I really bothered tracking for a 2nd home and Botchfeld didn’t make getting to the bottom of things any easier with his smoke-screen and constant campaign of disinformation.

People talk about outlandish quotes from the bubble and to be sure there were some memorable ones but I can’t think of anyone that delivered more consistently than Crotchfeld?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-07-25 17:23:12

Let me share with you the highlight of my month. And this has not been a dull month in my life. I have eaten good food. I have drunk good booze. I have wandered aimlessly the streets of New York with my loving wife. I met Darryl Strawberry, Dave Winfield, Steve Sax, Graig Nettles, etc. during the All-Star game festivities. I have an autographed ball to prove it. If you ever stop by, just ask to see my special ball and I will show it to you. I even think that one of my hometown boys will be the nominee for Vice President of the United States of America. Way to go, local boy. I don’t know if I will vote for him but that would be pretty cool.

The highlight came yesterday. What a glorious, humid, nasty day. I went into work early, like I always do. We Minnesota guys find it easy to make these Yankees look petty and lazy. I guess it’s the mixture of union and Wall Street mentality. Everybody’s looking for the big payday without actually making the sacrifice. For all of you union and Wall Street guys that I just offended I have a special ball I’m more than willing to show you. Just ask!

Let’s get back to yesterday. I was on the phone with a co-worker solving one of the many pointless, brainless problems that I solve so easily. We began to discuss an ex co-worker. She left our glorious workplace in 2005 to head to the sunny paradise of Las Vegas. Picture October, a beautiful and grand month. I always loved October in Minnesota. It started with sunscreen and usually ended with shrinkage of that special little fellow due to ungodly cold. He doth need coaxing to come out, much like the royal groundhog, on those cold mornings.

Well, where was I? Oh yeah, the problem was solved and we were discussing our past co-worker. She is out there in Spin City, no make that Sin City, or is that now Foreclosure City? Back in 2005, when the little CityBoy had already figured out the machinations of the bubble (the woman telling me about $800,000 lofts in Harlem had lifted the final veil) that was upon us. The soon-to-be former co-worker blankly told me, “my house is already worth $40,000 more than we paid for it.” Her slice of paradise wasn’t even complete yet.

CityBoy didn’t blink. His little sphincter did cinch up a little. I have that type of sphincter. Just ask the cats. Those sandy little tongues drive me nuts. I looked at her with a stare of resolution. I was going to share with her my new found wisdom. I was going to imbibe in her a sense of reality towards the world and the mess that Senor Greenspan had created. I stated calmly, “just be careful. These booms never last.” What I really meant was, “look here you stupid b*tch, this thing is a joke. You are about to get lubed up like a little boy at the Neverland Ranch.” But I smiled and tried to send out the kindest vibes I could.

The drone on the receiving end blinked slightly and grinned. I looked into her eyes and saw nothing behind them. “Oh, but everybody wants to be in Las Vegas. The retirees are all moving out there. It is different.”

Mister Sphincter nearly imploded. I looked at her and wanted to talk to her the way I used to talk to my sister’s dolls. Oh, give me a break. They had these cool Raggedy Ann ‘n Andy dolls. I liked talking to them. I was four years old, for god’s sake. But I wanted to talk to this blinking fool the way I used to talk to those mop-headed redheads. Don’t worry. I never touched them wrongly. If they say I did, they are lying, goldbricking little whores.

I have to quit drinking so much. Where was I? Oh, that’s right, the highlight of my month. God, I’m getting old. I might have to become NYCityMiddleAgedGuy pretty soon. I might look young but the gray matter is getting old. So, yesterday we are discussing the Las Vegas situation. My co-worker told me she had been talking to our former co-worker the week before. She had admitted, drum roll please, that her house in beautiful, sunny Las Vegas was now worth $60,000 less than she paid for it. “Holy cow”, I said. I immediately dropped my pants as there was serious calculation to be performed. Yes, I have to do that when the number is more than 7. I am missing some fingers from a New Year’s Eve accident in 1988 involving an excessive amount of Jack Daniels and a goat. So, I do my calculating and I now figure in her mind she is down $100,000. That is the thing that we all forget. These people aren’t just down what they are down. They are also down what they thought they were up. That is how gambling works.

That is a good month. That is a great month. Oh yeah, the cats turned 11 this month, too. They are so cute. I just wish I could do something about those rough little tongues. The month would be even sweeter. Maybe for my next birthday my wife will do something about that. She loves me so much. I’m sure she will. Happy Birthday to all of us. The secret is out. Too bad it may just destroy a nation that has been around for 232 years.

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Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-07-25 18:34:45

Welcome back, NYCB. Your wit has been missed.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-25 19:03:33

Wow,NYCB …I thought maybe a crane in New York might of fallen on you,but than there wasn’t anything in the news about a crane accident in the last 10 days .

But ,NYCB you mentioned a secret that was out and said something about it may destroy a Nation that has been around for 232 years . Need more information or more clues .

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-07-25 19:40:19

Nice use of foreshadowing. Was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Oh, and careful with the cats. They gots Cat Cops in NYC. I’ve seen it on Animal Planet. If I ever see an episode titled “A$$ Licking Abyssinians” I’ll know that’s your face behind the blue dot.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 21:59:07

Cool, tell your cats I said happy B-day. My cats don’t lick me so much, but just be glad you don’t have a duck. They bite your eyes!

 
 
 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-07-25 16:35:34

Where is Watts when we need him ? And oh yes, look out for the squirrels !

 
 
Comment by HARM
2008-07-25 11:45:06

“And boy, did my neighbor sure show them. He not only took the appliances with him when he moved, he (true story) even took the light bulbs.”

Your neighbor’s a piker. A *real* angry FB would rip out all the copper (pipes & wiring), sinks & toilets, chandoliers, railing, doorknobs, smash the drywall, smear dog excrement & urine on the carpets, then board up the windows and nail/krazy glue the doors shut on the way out. Like all those other psychos in the news.

Comment by Central Valley Guy
2008-07-25 12:28:46

You forgot “Pour concrete down every pipe and let a bunch of pigs go hog-wild for three days throughout the house.”

Hey all, some good news! The wife and I, instead of buying, are moving to a new gorgeous rental that is double the size. And we got the new landlord to knock off $800 from the asking rental price. We wrote a letter saying something to the effect of “in these uncertain financial times, you want renters that have 800+ credit scores and NO DEBT and they agreed–even though there were others who were willing to pay full price.

I have to thank Ben and the HBB crowd for educating us. Moving is expensive but I’ll be Paypaling some money Ben’s way soon for all the great work. Have a great weekend folks!

Comment by HARM
2008-07-25 13:01:46

in these uncertain financial times, you want renters that have 800+ credit scores and NO DEBT

Wow. Please tell me you also added a “LL must feed the squirrels” clause.

Comment by Neil
2008-07-25 22:59:12

ROTFL

It is a sign of the times.

That LL is effectively cutting $10k a year off the rent in order to have dependable renters!

I’m going to have to remember that quote (wife and I have high FICO’s too)…

Got Popcorn?
Neil

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Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-07-25 13:43:52

And we got the new landlord to knock off $800 from the asking rental price.

Better make Damn sure [these] are the actual owners/property managers of this house. You would not be the first person to hand over 1st and deposit only to have a sheriff knocking on your door a few weeks later informing you the [real] owners want you to vacate like yesterday.

Comment by Asparagus
2008-07-25 14:32:13

A true sign of the times. Renters running credit checks on the landlord. The world has been turned upside down.

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Comment by rick
2008-07-26 10:09:58

This doesn’t make sense, if a landlord is in foreclosure danger, why he cares about the credit of the tenant? He would rent it out ASAP and collect rents as much as possible.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-07-25 16:08:28

i asked a plumber about that concrete in the pipes thing. He said it’s nothing (cut the pipe section and replace it) compared to fixing a system where chunks of styrofoam had been flushed. I didn’t understand why.. something about it’s hard to find the blockage and then grab it, and it keeps moving around..

Comment by arizonadude
2008-07-25 19:49:44

What about when the concrete hardens under the foundation?How the hell are you going to replace that pipe?He might have forgot to mention that concrete hardens under water.So the brilliant homebuyer partially plugs the drain in the front of the home so the concrete will settle in the pipes below the house.You are screwed at this point my friend.

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Comment by watcher
2008-07-25 12:31:04

Hey, sorry about the mess…but what a party!

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-25 11:49:21

“‘That’s why we don’t believe that it’s realistic to think of recent declines as the market crumbling or, as they like to say, the bubble bursting,’ Lyons said.”

He’s right, you know. I do like to say it: ‘the bubble bursting, the bubble bursting, la la la…’ Ahhhh. It’s just so pretty, like a little lullaby. The second part of the lullaby goes ‘That REtard Jim Lyons is funny when he smells like desperationnnnnn, la la la…’
Why, I could sing it all day long!
(I know it doesn’t rhyme, but it’s the best I can do.)

Comment by SDGreg
2008-07-25 12:25:16

“New Hampshire Association of Realtors President Jim Lyons stressed that real estate is still a good long-term investment. He pointed to New Hampshire real estate data from the past 10 years: Median prices have more than doubled since 2001 and the state had five years of double-digit price increases, from 2000 to 2004.”

Nice job, fool. Point to gains during the biggest housing bubble in history, something that will never happen again in this lifetime, and use that as the basis for real estate being a good investment. Not good enough.

Comment by SDGreg
2008-07-25 12:27:25

close bold

 
 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-07-25 11:55:12

mo free sht housin bill limits pigmen to 2% fees on reverse morts
WTF were they taking before ?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-07-25 14:00:58

In excess of 5 percent.

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-25 15:08:09

Right, this is their “Last Stand” for free $’s. Now that they’ve bilked nearly every last dime in equity from starter/move-up buyers it’s time to move on and make sure there isn’t a lick left for the next generation either.

I know I harp on this all the time but obviously this must be ridiculously easy money if you have so many people just itching to get a crack at it? Even at 2%… that’s plenty generous.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-25 15:36:05

Yes I agree DinOR….I already know some people who got fleeced by those reverse mortgage fees .That’s the one part of the housing bill that i like about that limit on fees and it isn’t money out of taxpayers pockets (at least I don’t think it is ).

The part I don’t like is that
its to bad that other age groups aren’t protected from fees ,if you know what I mean ,but thats not realistic I guess.

Anyway ,the other part of the housing bill that gives a tax
rebate grant to first time home buyers of 7.5K is a attempt to get first timers off the fence ,and unload foreclosures no doubt. Course ,sellers alway raise prices when a hand-out or incentive is involved . The tax incentive is no different than a seller giving cash back if you buy and raising the price accordingly .I can imagine the sales people saying ,”Get in now before the government takes away the tax incentive.” But the real crazy part is that the tax incentive is suppose to be paid back by the first time home buyer ,(at no interest charge of course ).But it looks like the Housing Bill is targeting certain sectors of the population .

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Comment by DinOR
2008-07-25 16:06:32

“Get in now before the government…” LOL!

HW, ( they’re printing up the flyers as we speak )

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect a cap on mortgage fees at all! The MSRB ( Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board ) has had what they call the 5% Rule since… forever. Basically NO firm can charge you more than a total of 5% “round trip” to buy a bond! 2.5% in and 2.5% out. Using that yardstick you should be able to close on your home purchase much more affordably.

Remember, most muni’s are underwritten with a 30 Year Maturity.

In most cases it’s MUCH cheaper. I think standard pricing is anything under a 2 year maturity is like .25%. 5 years .50% etc.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Francella
2008-07-25 19:44:39

Taxmeupthebooty, Bill in Carolina, and DinOR……you three don’t know sht about Reverse Mortgages. But, I’m sure you’d just love to take care ($$$$$) of your parents, so you could inherit all their wealth. HA! Either they pay for their old age with equity THEY BUILT UP (NOT YOU) or you can take care of them. And, I bet that’s a laugh. And why do you, DinOR, think your parents should leave anything to you…..go earn it yourself. These ‘old people’ went through the recessions of’74-76, the S&L fiasco in the ’80’s, a recession in the late ’80’s and again in the ’90’s after the Cold War ended, the tech-bubble burst. But somehow they managed to build up equity….and you think you should have it.

This is the meanest, smugest, stupidest group of people on a board I’ve ever read…and a lot of you are full of hatred, and envy, and full of a lot of hot air……gee, maybe in person you all look like hot air bubbles……try not to burst. (Or you could get some therapy to deal with your anger issues.) Sheesh….Ugly here.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-07-25 11:55:12
mo free sht housin bill limits pigmen to 2% fees on reverse morts
WTF were they taking before ?

Reply to this comment
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-07-25 14:00:58
In excess of 5 percent.

Reply to this comment
Comment by DinOR
2008-07-25 15:08:09
Right, this is their “Last Stand” for free $’s. Now that they’ve bilked nearly every last dime in equity from starter/move-up buyers it’s time to move on and make sure there isn’t a lick left for the next generation either.

I know I harp on this all the time but obviously this must be ridiculously easy money if you have so many people just itching to get a crack at it? Even at 2%… that’s plenty generous.

Reply to this comment
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-25 15:36:05
Yes I agree DinOR….I already know some people who got fleeced by those reverse mortgage fees .That’s the one part of the housing bill that i like about that limit on fees and it isn’t money out of taxpayers pockets (at least I don’t think it is ).

 
 
Comment by girlbear
2008-07-25 12:02:57

I’m already lower case, not to be confused with lower class..
“now that beer is cheaper than gas, drink don’t drive” lol

Comment by mikey
2008-07-25 12:59:35

Augggg….I THINK my little DONUT SHOP has closed.

It’s OFFICALLY a Depression NOW !!!!

Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-07-25 13:48:45

my little DONUT SHOP has closed.

Consider it a blessing.

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-07-25 16:07:40

Trust me, your heart and arteries are screaming a sigh of relief.

Now, if my favorite steak place closed.. That would be a catastrophe of proportions only equaled by the comet impact that killed the dinosaurs. But, it’s good that your doughnut shop closed, you’ll be better off for it.

Think I’m ready to be a politician (or head of the NAR)? Do as I say, not as I do!

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Comment by In Colorado
2008-07-25 12:04:11

“Hiott, who wants to move closer to his job in Union County, also couldn’t sell his home last year. ‘We’ve probably had a dozen showings, but in the last week, we haven’t had any calls,’ said Hiott, who has dropped the price a little, but says, ‘I’m not going to give my house away.’”

Late last year my brother was trying to sell his house in Winston-Salem. After a few months it hadn’t sold. So I suggested he undercut every house for sale in his neighborhood. He naturally had a case of “I don’t want to give it away” syndrome. That said he had already closed on his new house, and took my advice. He had a solid offer within 2 weeks.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-07-25 14:03:50

The three most important things in real estate are price, price and price.

Comment by DinOR
2008-07-25 16:08:10

O.K you got me there ( took a second ) LOL!

 
Comment by Butch
2008-07-25 18:49:38

Bill,

You just coined the final nail in the RE bubble deflation.

“The three most important things in real estate are price, price and price”

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-25 12:05:57

“Consultant Steve Bottfeld said Las Vegas is going through a rolling ‘Goldilocks’ recovery. ‘It’s not too hot. It’s not too cold. Unfortunately, it’s not just right for everybody,’ he said.”

I never understood why the Three Bears didn’t catch that little miscreant burglar Goldilocks and make her firstly repair Little Bear’s chair that busted when she sat her wicked vandalizing bum in it, and then secondly make her wash, dry, and iron the sheets in Little Bear’s bed, and then thirdly, finish up the moral lesson by eating her. Thereby replacing the slobber tainted porridge with a fresh meal that was not too hot, not too cold, but just right, which I should imagine would be at 98 degrees fahrenheit.
I think that would be a more morally instructive tale, and well as more enjoyable to read, personally.

Comment by lavi d
2008-07-25 12:53:10

I never understood why the Three Bears didn’t catch that little miscreant burglar…

That’s because Goldilocks had a brokered a deal with The Wicked Witch of the Countrywide and got the Bears an Interest-Only, Neg-Am loan for 1 point origination.

Two years later, she picked up their cottage at a foreclosure auction for 38% of its peak price.

The Bears now rent in Riverside and are hoping the mortgage bailout will be retroactive so they can keep their Lexus SUV, cell phones and automated Trout-O-Matic 6000.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-25 14:06:42

I…I…I’m so infatuated with you right at this moment.

Comment by lavi d
2008-07-25 14:52:37

I…I…I’m so infatuated with you right at this moment.

Your flights-of-fancy post-commenting style is quite infectious.

:)

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Comment by are they crazy
2008-07-25 15:37:55

Let’s not forget the 3 little pigmen - I’m betting that would make a great sequel to the 3 bears.

Comment by packman
2008-07-25 19:39:06

“Pigs (Three Different Ones)”

by Pink Floyd (Animals)

(note the last of the three - “cold feet” aptly applies to Bush’s lack of veto this week)

Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You’re nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying “keep on digging”
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find?
When you’re down in the pig mine
You’re nearly a laugh
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry.
Bus stop rat bag, ha ha, charade you are

You f***** up old hag, ha ha, charade you are
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass
You’re nearly a good laugh
Almost worth a quick grin
You like the feel of steel
You’re hot stuff with a hat pin
And good fun with a hand gun
You’re nearly a laugh
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry.

Hey you Whitehouse, ha ha, charade you are
You house proud town mouse, ha ha, charade you are
You’re trying to keep our feelings off the street
You’re nearly a real treat
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
You gotta stem the evil tide
And keep it all on the inside
Mary you’re nearly a treat
Mary you’re nearly a treat
But you’re really a cry.

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Comment by Wickedheart
2008-07-25 14:07:09

That was very enjoyable to read. I had something too to say about that little wench, Goldilocks, but your post was much more amusing than mine.

 
 
Comment by dannll
2008-07-25 12:08:49

“Consultant Steve Bottfeld said Las Vegas is going through a rolling ‘Goldilocks’ recovery. ‘It’s not too hot. It’s not too cold. Unfortunately, it’s not just right for everybody,’ he said.”

What the hell does this mean? I feel so stupid when I can’t understand this Realtard talk. All this technical jargon.

Comment by lavi d
2008-07-25 13:03:48

Las Vegas is going through a rolling ‘Goldilocks’ recovery. ‘It’s not too hot. It’s not too cold.

What the hell does this mean?

It’s frickin’ 106 degrees here in lovely Las Vegas as I type this. That’s definitely not too cold .

And it’s not rolling. That happens closer to the ocean and it’s not usually called a “recovery”. It’s usually called an “earthquake”

So I have no idea what this means, either.

 
Comment by OK_Land_lord
2008-07-25 16:59:37

Anyone who thinks Vegas is going through a recover needs mental treatment.

I live in the Green Valley area and was driving around in other parts of the metro, If you drive down Pecos, which turns into St. Rose Parkway, there is a commercial development that has signs “Representative Onsite” and “Move in Now” but I have not see any potential.

I am currently renting and watching, I move to the Valley late last December and have seen nothing but price declines and some of the houses have sold, however they are replaced with more and more.

Does anyone know any Bankers or people who may be associated with the banking comunity in the Vegas area?

Some people think that the City Center is going to change everything for Vegas and that all the inventory will be worked off at that time, I say “P–lease”. There is soo much inventory here, sorry I don’t have exact numbers, but I don’t see a return to normal anytime soon.

Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 22:06:52

I used to live in Green Valley. The one thing that I remember the most is all the brick walls. They really echo. I can let you in on my theory for why they have all those walls, if you’re interested.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-07-25 12:11:55

said Hiott, who has dropped the price a little, but says, ‘I’m not going to give my house away.’”

Just another one on a long list of the deaf,dumb & blind. I would hate to be as closed minded as these fools are. Hang on dim-wit the rebound is just days away.

Comment by lavi d
2008-07-25 13:07:26

said Hiott, who has dropped the price a little, but says, ‘I’m not going to give my house away.’”

“I ain’t givin’ it away”, said professional escort Honey Butts when interviewed on east Fremont St. in Las Vegas late last night.

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2008-07-25 12:15:25

“Jamie and Brandon Wunderle, whose two-bedroom, 832-square-foot house is no longer big enough for them and their two children, put their house in unincorporated north St. Louis County on the market two years ago, and took it off a year ago. They’re going to try again soon. ‘But I am not getting my hopes up,’ she said. ‘There are three other houses for sale on the same street as us, and they haven’t sold.’”

They don’t seem that serious about trying to sell. They’ll never get (or at least any time soon) what they could’ve gotten two years ago if it was priced properly. They sort of seem to understand that sales are slow, but seem clueless as to why. Those that don’t understand this market have little chance of selling.

That’s a small amount of space (832 sf) for four people. They could probably rent twice as much space for half as much money. Oh the horrors of renting.

 
Comment by dimedropped (Orlando)
2008-07-25 12:27:07

Back in the day when I was doing FHA foreclosure work it was amazing what we found. The biggest messes cannot be discussed here but these guys would throw a sledgehammer thru every wall, concrete in toilets and tubs, use a blow torch(can of wd 40 with a bic) on all outlets basically welding them, take all doors, appliances, and then turn on every spiggot and flood the place.

whew….1 sentence

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-25 12:44:52

Wow. What you describe sounds pretty thorough, dime. How much does it cost to rehab that sort of damage? I’d almost think it’d be cheaper to bulldoze it and then just build a new house.

 
Comment by Central Valley Guy
2008-07-25 12:45:50

Wow, melting the wall sockets. That’s a new one I haven’t heard of!

But of course you’ve piqued my interest. What in the world else can be done other than leveling the place and salting the surrounding earth?

Comment by combotechie
2008-07-25 13:02:35

“What in the world else can be done other than leveling the place and salting the surrounding earth?”

Don’t salt the earth. Make the land unusable by building a pond, stocking it with desert pupfish and deeming it a “wetlands”.

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-07-25 16:11:11

Huh, that’s a good idea.

Throw a whooping crane and a few hunchback whales in there for good measure, probably get the whole da** neighborhood with enough “endangered” wildlife.

:)

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Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-07-25 13:19:15

I’d like to see road gangs again

Comment by Mole Man
2008-07-25 21:04:18

Endorsing pointless theatrics on the taxpayer’s dime? Maybe we should turn foreclosed gated developments into concentration camps so we won’t need to lean on Cuba so much. That strategy might yield a high return on investment.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2008-07-25 13:22:31

That’s nothing. Years ago, a loan officer for a bank told me HE BELIEVED a pissed off guy in Minnesota snuck back into his empty foreclosed house, plugged all the sinks and drains, left the H2O running and ripped off the furnance electrical wires at 20-25 degrees below.

An alert mailman spotted a frozen waterfall emerging from the cracked lower basement cinder blocks. Of course the suspect guy, now living 140 miles away , was home, happy and had a solid alibi :)

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-25 16:08:07

Well ,if Congress/Senate was on the ball, they would of pass better laws against destroying a foreclosure property when a FB walks-a-way . I think some loan contracts have clauses that prevents the owner from destroying the property ,or the bank can call the loan ,(as if any lender want to call a loan right now for violations of contract ).

But, FB’s that trash the place are criminals and dangerous people as far as I’m concerned .Didn’t the FB’s do enough damage by lying on their loan application to get a crack at easy money to begin with ?
This is the problem with the powers deciding to make these people out to be victims ,rather than the misfits of society that they are .

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-07-25 16:28:18

Dime,

I just don’t understand most people - maybe that’s why I feel safer in this little world Ben created for us.

I cannot fathom such actions! Why. Why. Why.

Those sights would have me permanently PTSD.

Sigh,
Leigh

Comment by are they crazy
2008-07-25 18:16:20

Leigh - I don’t get this one, either. Maybe it’s a gender thing. Not to say us women can be a vengeful bunch, but usually it’s aimed at a particular person that has done us wrong. Then again, I’d be too busy unpacking and making the next home to be bothered with what’s done.

 
 
 
Comment by Gulfstream-fixer
2008-07-25 13:13:22

A question for the HBB Brain Trust………..

What is a house actually “worth”? As in the “value” of the materials and labor that actually go into the typical 3/2, 2000-2500 square foot structure?

It has to be worth “something”, but I believe you could make the case that the house is worth NOTHING after it has been built; when you get right down to it, there isn’t that much that can be economically recycled……and from this, you have to subtract the cost of recycling reusing, and the cost associated with environmental disposal issues (lead paint, asbestos, etc.)

I began to think about this a couple of years ago, when visiting a relative in SoCal……… she swore on a stack of Bibles that her 3/2 ranch on a postage stamp sized lot was “worth” $750K, and would be worth a million bucks in 8-10 years. (House was 30 miles north of downtown LA on I-5). Same house out here in flyover land MIGHT have gone for $150-175K at the time (on a larger lot). At the time, you could buy an acre-sized building site locally for $20,000 (and that was priced at a premium)…..while her postage stamp lot, calculated out to be around $600K, or 2.4 MILLION/ACRE!!!!!!! (and I was giving her the benefit of the doubt calling her lot a 1/4 acre lot.)

This is why I’ve always thought putting a dollar/Sq foot price on a house is not a valid way to price out a house.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2008-07-25 14:02:11

A property is ‘worth’ what you’re willing to pay for the cashflow it generates, taking into account taxes/upkeep/insurance/etc.

As a generic rule of thumb, it needs to generate enough positive cash flow to give you a ROI that is greater than extremely safe and conservative investments. So right now, you’d be hoping for a 4-5% ROI minimum. If interest rates go up, so should your expected ROI.

 
Comment by DeepInTheHeartOf
2008-07-25 14:18:13

Yeah. $ per sq/ft works best when it’s apples to apple. i.e. this house vs. another in the same McSubdivison by the same builder.

You also can look closely at other details that impact the calculation.

Looking at the numbers for the house I just sold last week and you can say it sold for $69.28 per sq ft, or it sold for $58.88 per sq ft.

The difference in those figures? Seller’s closing costs ($6,050) rolled into the price, and two rooms (588 sq ft) which are not counted by the appraisal district in the house size for tax purposes (but do have heat and A/C and are integral to the structure).

Even using the high value per Sq ft, I just lowered the local comps nicely. I was seeing $75-$100 sq/ft in recent comps. I shared Emery’s belief, and undercut the competition as viciously as I could.

 
 
Comment by EastBayRenter
2008-07-25 13:24:17

Just a reminder for Bay area bloggers..

Bloggers in the Bay area will be meeting at the 3rd Ave. Pub Sports Bar and Grill in San Mateo!! This is a link to the address and some reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/3rd-ave-sports-bar-and-grill-san-mateo. We are meeting there around 3pm.

Come join us for the fun!!

Comment by EastBayRenter
2008-07-25 18:45:48

I’ve had a long day…. This is happening tomorrow - Saturday….

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-07-25 14:10:15

House for sale for $12 million in Watts.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Los-Angeles/2459-E-111th-St-90059/home/7314302

Perhaps the bubble hasn’t deflated in L.A. after all.

Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 15:35:34

There are a few $12 million houses for sale in Los Altos too, but they will not sell for that. They’re all worth about $2-3 mill, seriously.

 
Comment by Little Al
2008-07-25 17:13:33

Did you notice it was built in 1992? What famous event in history could have caused it to be built at this time? Obviously, the listing agent can’t do rudimentary math.

 
Comment by mjc
2008-07-25 20:15:49

I followed the link and it says $114,000 - not $12m

Comment by Mole Man
2008-07-25 21:13:02

What a charmer! Honey, stop the car [I feel nauseated]!

The big number is a little farther down:
# Original List Price: $11,490,000
# Previous Price: $11,490,000

Looks like some kind of glitch–both the house and the old valuation.

 
 
Comment by Earl The Vagabond
2008-07-26 08:45:24

Source: SoCalMLSSales History Property Tax
Date Price Appreciation
Apr 19, 1993 $21,000 —
Jan 28, 2003 $140,000 21.4%/yr
Oct 18, 2006 $410,000 33.5%/yr
May 07, 2008 $247,265 -27.8%/yr

WTF…. Even $21k seems high.

Absolutely insane.

 
 
Comment by belle waring
2008-07-25 15:05:00

now that’s a candidate for the real homes of genius award.

 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-07-25 15:15:37

“Knoxville real estate investor Kenny Lockhart said his strategy is to buy homes, fix them up and sell them”

God, that’s brilliant. I’m so happy for him that no one else thought up the same idea thus flooding the market with cheaply renovated homes. Maybe they should do a TV show about this guy !

 
Comment by catspit1
2008-07-25 16:00:16

email rumor mill here in Golden State says WaMu may close doors this weekend… good time to withdraw funds in excess of 100K, WAIT! i haven’t got 100k…

Comment by Neil
2008-07-26 02:24:33

Naaa…

The FDIC is still in the “wait for Friday” mode. Wamu is having a cash crunch, but its not to the point where it would fail next week.

Don’t get me wrong, they won’t see 2010, but they’re ok for this week.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by Bubble Butt
2008-07-25 16:20:52

Straw Buyer Mortgage Fraud Still going on in Santa Ana CA. Wells Fargo is the sucker.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/camile-house-mortgage-2104411-fargo-wells

Comment by Ken Best
2008-07-26 00:50:47

Wells Fargo will sell this loan to Fannie Mae, no doubt.
Rampant frauds at all levels in America.

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-07-25 16:24:53

I thought I heard a talking head say that Washington Mutual got a 10 billion dollar loan so the failure is not immediate and some re-structering is going on . Who knows ,I’m getting so I don’t believe anything I hear or see or read anymore .

Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-07-25 17:05:36

They have a total liquidity (cash and liquid assets) of about 50B.. 40 plus the 10 borrowed.

But any bank, no matter how solid, is vulnerable to a run. In IndyMac’s case, the $1.3B run crushed them so fast they didn’t even have time to make the FDIC’s watch list.. didn’t pass go.. went directly to jail.

Comment by Neil
2008-07-26 02:26:53

Indymac made the blogger watch list and bankrate’s 1* rating.

The FDIC might not have listed them, but others noted their weakness first. Wamu is on the watch lists; but I think unless there is a run they’ll squeek by for a little longer.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
 
Comment by catspit1
2008-07-25 16:29:54

i think i will apply for a $10 bil loan also, consolidate a few bills…

all’s i know is a bud in commercial RE sent me the heads up. word is on the street, HuggyBear.

I see a house in my target area now at 338k, hmmmm… about a 10 min. pedal to newport beach and with a nice mature palm tree. Starting to get interesting.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 17:08:28

Argh. I just found out about this forum thing. It’s hard to get used to. How the hell do you get your avatar to show up?

 
Comment by catspit1
2008-07-25 17:27:20

what is avatar? Roman forum?

Friends, Romans, countrymen… lend us a beer.

Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 17:28:27

I think it’s a hero/main character, but today the word can also refer to an image that you use to represent yourself online.

 
Comment by Crash Random
2008-07-26 09:13:57

In Hindu mythology an avatar is the human incarnation of a god on earth.

By extension your “avatar” is your “incarnation” or character or persona on a message board.

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-07-25 17:45:34

highly desirable areas like Morgan Hill

Ha, ha, ha, ha! This is one of the more delusional quotes I’ve seen in recent history.

 
Comment by Richard Mason
2008-07-25 17:54:12

‘The good news is beer is cheaper than gas. So drink, don’t drive.’

I thought this was a funny line, but then I realized… It’s not true. Beer is not cheaper than gas.

Even if you buy Bud Light in thirty-packs, beer is still more than $6/gallon.

I guess housing analyst Larry Murphy either can’t do math, or just says whatever comes into his head without regard for whether it’s true or not.

I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised.

 
Comment by Daniel Manfre
2008-07-25 18:15:37

The housing bill tax credit for first time homebuyers is a joke. It isn’t going to make much difference. The bailout is for the corporations predominantly. Read it here Bankrate article

We are too far past the point of return to stop the inevitable continuing and increasing wave of foreclosures that will feed on itself as more and more homeowners become underwater and join the foreclosure movement.

 
Comment by flat
2008-07-25 18:36:14

if Ben is going to foreclosures , isn’t that the bottom?

 
Comment by lostcontrol
2008-07-25 19:08:18

Ben,
I hate to say it your bits has been hijacked

The problem is now seen as bigger than housing prices. Now, it seems, we are concerned the collapse of the entire financial system. God help us, it this happens, I would suspect that a house is the last ting anyone would want.

Best to you!!

 
Comment by Big V
2008-07-25 22:04:54

It’s hard to get used to the new forum. I’m coming back here for the commaraderie, but will continue to give the forum a good try.

 
Comment by rick
2008-07-26 09:46:10

“This is the second home auction in Morgan Hill in recent months. The trend, which is happening throughout California and the West Coast, especially in highly desirable areas like Morgan Hill”

Morgan Hill and highly desirable doesn’t know each other. It is a place outside the Bay Area, where the lower middle class is driven from being able to afford a decent home and find this rural place their home, it is less desirable than decent areas in East Bay which is also mentioned.

 
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